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Tory gains in the south are not mirrored in Scotland



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Published Date: 24 May 2008
SCOTTISH Tories could hardly have hoped for better news from Crewe as they gathered for their annual conference in Ayr. The party did not simply secure its first by-election gain from Labour in 30 years. It left Labour trailing badly in its wake.
The best the Conservatives have managed to do in any by-election since 1997 is to increase their share of the vote by three percentage points. In Crewe their vote advanced by 18 points. With Labour's vote also down by 17 points that meant the swing f
rom Labour to the Conservatives was as much as 17.6 per cent.

Crewe reinforces the message of the polls and the local elections that the Conservatives appear to have a serious chance of winning the next general election. Certainly the last time there was a by-election swing to the Conservatives of as much as 17.6 per cent was in 1977, when Jim Callaghan was Labour prime minister. He went on to suffer defeat in the 1979 general election.

Yet after celebrating their party's success, Scottish Tories might ask themselves an awkward question: why are they apparently not part of their party's revival? In Scotland the polls show little sign of Conservative progress.

This apparent failure in Scotland does not pose a serious threat to David Cameron's chances of becoming prime minister. In contrast to the north of England, for example, there are too few top Tory targets to make much difference to the outcome of the next election. But it could undermine Cameron's hopes of being a successful prime minister.

The opposition leader after all argues he is the true defender of the Union. Yet any future Conservative government will find it difficult to claim to be representative of the Union if it has few, if any, MPs in Scotland. The more the Tories seem to be successful in England, the more they need to strengthen their position north of the Border too.

• John Curtice is Professor of Politics, Strathclyde University





The full article contains 345 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 May 2008 10:18 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 24/05/2008 00:13:30
The next general election will show a polarisation of votes between the OLD TIRED DIE HARD LABOUR voters and the NEW YOUNG VIBRANT PRO INDEPENDENCE SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY. The tories and the lib dems will have to fight for the scraps falling from the VICTORIOUS SNP table. Bet's anyone????
2

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 24/05/2008 00:26:06
"Tory gains in the south are not mirrored in Scotland" Worded as such, illustrates how removed the author is, must be english, if not, what are you and where are you?

Can you imagine a paper called the "Englishman" talking about poll results from an accepted Scottish perspective, using a national title when a regional title is descriptive.

It is insulting to be continually demoted to a regional descriptive when a country it is. Twisted.
3

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 24/05/2008 00:27:24
2 Run along now.
4

Conan the Librarian™,

24/05/2008 00:40:46
4
He is quite correct.From his perspective in Engerlund, most SNP supporters do come from abroad;-)
5

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/05/2008 00:56:15
What is really concening, to me, is that Cameron & Brown are both saying that they will both do, "what is required to save the Union."

The "" are mine, but this is the sentiment expressed by both.

What, exactly, do they mean???

#5, Conan.

You are out of order. There is no need to be gratuitously offensive. Trolls are what they are; Trolls, not English, not Scottish, not Martians or whatever.

Leave them in the mire of their own cow's pat.
6

Cincinnatus,

Edinburgh 24/05/2008 00:59:24
#1 the real challenge for the SNP will eventually come from the right. The SNP merely offer defunct socialist policies in a Scottish context and that will guarantee failure in time.
7

,

24/05/2008 01:56:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Edward,

24/05/2008 02:35:47
'Tory gains in the south are not mirrored in Scotland'
No sh*t sherlock!
I think John Curtice is stating the obvious, but give him his due is highlighting something thats being ignored by the London based media, ergo the BBC, ITV, Sky etc.
That , yes this kind of swing as shown in the Crewe by election would result in a Tory UK Government, BUT would not happen north of the Border where it is Labour versus SNP. They have to think of an equivelant swing from Labour to the SNP. Now a swing of 17.6% from Labour to the SNP would result in not many Labour MP's being returned, it may even mean that Gordon Brown himself is not returned!. Its a pity that the English centered media have not grasped that (yet)
9

Hugo of Garven,

24/05/2008 06:15:57
6 Cincinnatus,Edinburgh
" . . and that will guarantee failure in time."

Don't hold your breath.
10

Breezy,

Argyll 24/05/2008 07:38:13
#7. Get a life.
11

danielrober,

24/05/2008 07:46:25
# 7

I think your sad posts demonstrates first hand why London is full of Scottish business people bullied out of Scotland. Any one who is 'not quite' of your opinion is isolated and targetted.

Yet as i've said, my generation grew up with you guys so we're not so bothered. Your just another FUBAR.
12

donald,

glasgow 24/05/2008 07:52:59
Scottish Labour are the English Tories in Scotland
13

morris,

edinburgh 24/05/2008 08:09:33
When you consider that all three Unionist parties were aware of the McCrone Reports findings, but continued to lie throught their teeth to Scotland for forty years,then the only surpirise should be that any of them still command any votes in Scotland.The current standing of the Tory party in Scotland is actually quite good considering they were wiped out in effect and its only the PR system which they opoposed which kept them alive.The Liberal party have pockets in Scotland which are more likely to disappear than expand,and Labour,the last of the Unionist gangs are on their way OUT on both sides of the Rio Tweed. Once the results are declared and Cameron enters no 10,even Labours megathick supporters must surely realise that Labour are finished as a UK party of government.

Margaret Beckett says New Labour must change direction if its to win a General Election? If Labour cannot beat the Tories whilst being a watered down Tory party themselves,how the **** can they win with a swing to the left? They will get an even bigger thumping!

The party is over ! Waken Up Scotland or we are going into another 18 years of Tory government in Scotland,and its because Labour voters are too stupid to be able to work out LABOUR CANNOT POSSIBLY WIN !

The problem with Labour voters is they need to be run over before they realise a bus is coming!
14

Geoff,

sa 24/05/2008 08:27:07
OK so most of you guys are not overly fond of the Tories but give Cameron(of the Scottish father note) his due. He has offered a hand of friendship to the SNP in a gracious manner. This contrasts sharply with Labours ill tempered approach,an approach which has incidentally cost them dearly in my opinion.
The Scottisgh Tories could surprise you yet. They seem to be well led by the formidable Annabel G. and offer a sensible alternative to Labour. As I have said before if Scots could have voted in numbers for Blair then they could do the same for Cameron-theres not a helluva lot of difference between them policywise.
2 Ard right-Tory gains in the south are not mirrored in Scotland-AR you are too sensitive. Dont read anti-Scottish slight into every headline. An analogy would be LibDem gains(in Scotland or the North) are not mirrored in England. No Englishman would see offence in such a comment-not even EngNats.
15

FTH22inarow,

24/05/2008 08:41:24
scary thing is there not much more right wing than a scottish tory thank god there aren't many, we need to vote SNP to protect Scotland from thee evil barstewards
16

Geoff,

sa 24/05/2008 08:47:14
13 Donald and 14 Morris-interesting posts. Voters in the UK but perhaps particularly in Scotland need to examine the political parties in the UK as they are NOW-not as many of you caricature them. The Tories of Margaret Thatcher hue are long gone as are the Labour Party of Gaitskell and Wilson and Foot. There has been a largely cynical-some might call it a recognition of reality-move to the centre. Voters no longer subscribe to radical policies so Tory moves left and Labour moves right. If the Tories run a constructive campaign in Scotland they have every chance of picking up the votes of dissillusioned Labourites or even attracting the votes of erstwhile SNP supporters. It is not all done and dusted as many of you think. Alex Salmond is a gifted politician who has a clear vision but this at a time when Labour are in total meltdown. You have to factor in the latter as a happy alignment of planets for the Nat cause. I know I will never convince any of the mainstream nationalists on this forum but if the scottish people are given an alternative that offers the best of both worlds- a federal Kingdom-I think most Scots would still opt for the Union albeit in a different form
17

Green booger,

24/05/2008 08:54:26
Vote UKIP instead.
18

Geoff,

sa 24/05/2008 09:22:13
18 GB-it is unlikely that the smaller parties will make any headway. Better for those who support smaller groups such as UKIP and the Scottish Unionist Party to concentrate their votes with the big party nearest their philosophies to the benefit of both.You can be a eurosceptic within the Tory party
19

Boy Wonder,

24/05/2008 09:28:45
The Tories will never ever again be a major force in Scotland. They are simply not wanted. And Labour are going that way too. Both parties have served Scotland poorly ... and suffered for it.

There is a new politics in Scotland ... and the Red and the Blue are never going to have to come to terms that their old powerbases are fast disappearing.
20

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 24/05/2008 09:39:20
#20 Boy Wonder

So what will be the alternative to the SNP, or are you content for the country to be a one-party State? Considering the SNP are simply a tartan Auld Labour, will we be allowed the choice of a party a bit more to the Right? Probably not. Too many Scots have become too used to being subsidy junkies.
21

Melly,

Sussex 24/05/2008 09:54:24
My Granny (born 1896) used to vote tory and I could never understand why. Her husband left her with 4 young kids and they were as poor as church mice. I discovered that the reason was that she was a west coast protestant and that catholics voted labour and she wasn`t too keen on them !! Glad most of us can think for ourselves these days
22

Boy Wonder,

24/05/2008 10:01:41
#21. Once we become independent of the tired old UK rubbish, the SNP will have to reform under different lines and we'll see what comes to the fore then.

Still have to be wary of New Labour, Tory and the objectionable Fibdems! Not to mention the abhorrent Greens!
23

Calum10,

24/05/2008 10:30:54
The irony about all this pompus talk by Unionist politicians in 'saving the Union' is that they are trying to save the Union from their own incompetence.

It is the Unionists themselves who are failing the Union.
24

livilion,

livingston 24/05/2008 10:45:30
#17 Geoff
Latest information is that wee Bella's good work since last May could net her Tories 5 or 6 MPs at the next general election as the result of a modest Scottish swing in their favour.

The gentlemen farmers are sounding disillusioned with Nicol and Tavish's efforts, who's best hope is to flatline at the polls, and have lost confidence that New Labour are still competent without Honest Tony to continue to preach The Word of Thatcherism.

Liberal voters last time out could be expected to switch to Tory if they don't fancy the SNP, either way as the debate becomes more polarised LibDem votes will surely evapourate.

Scottish Labour voters might be expected to either stay home on polling day or vote SNP to 'protect the workers' from another decade or more of Thatcherism Lite.

The $64,000 question is where are Labour and the SNP going to end up relative to each other in Scotland?

When Scotland returned 11 SNP MPs back in the Mid-70s the devolution movement kicked off properly as Westminster soiled her nether garments at the prospect of potentially losing Scotland.

20 SNP MPs, the high bar they have set themselves, would cause a UK constitutional tsunami. 30+ and for Alex Salmond's team its 'back of the net, the trophy is surely now heading for Bute House'.

The issue for Scots, Northern England and the Celtic Fringe is that Cameron does not need our votes, he only has to keep 'Middle England' happy as did Thatcher to gain and remain in No10.

I think Maggie probably did not actually hate the Scots, Northerners and poorer people as it appeared from up here, she just had more pressing demands for her attention from the Home Counties.
If Northerners benefited or suffered by her ideology and policies then them's the breaks, nobody said life is fair.

The effects of Thatcher's actions only gave the impression that she hated us, but really she could've cared less and so will Cameron, just like Blair and Brown before him.

With Salmond creat
25

livilion,

livingston 24/05/2008 10:46:12
#17 Geoff(continued)


With Salmond creating credible responsible government at Holyrood the alternative is to ask what have we to lose by standing up for our own interests in Scotland?
The answer is we only lose second class status in our own country.
26

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 24/05/2008 11:13:25
Scotland needs to look past the tired old Brit Nat alliance of Tory and Labour. There's so little to choose between them.

Taigh na croich' orra uile! Alba shaor san amharc.
27

drew 33,

24/05/2008 11:14:11
Amusing these SNP enthusiasts posting on here. Scottish nationalism is a small minority interest in Scotland. Like many others I voted for an SNP candidate, on the basis(correctly as it turned out) that he was the only one likely to beat the Labour incumbent. A Tory majority in England and Labour losing much of its support to SNP in Scotland will do nicely at the next election to give the Tories a commanding majority at Westminster.
28

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 24/05/2008 11:14:31
#26 Livilion

I agree that Salmond and Sturgeon have proved a competent and credible pair in government but their policies will prove, in the long run, to be as expensive and old-fashioned as Brown's. Other than the matter of Independence, the SNP are a very backward thinking party. If Scotland needs to shake of any shackles, it's the shackles of Socialism, which has only served to reduce many of the workless people of this country to dependancy Labour drones. We don't need to replace them with dependancy SNP drones. The SNP keep telling us to look to Norway etc. for examples of how we could be. I'd rather we had a party that looked to the example of the Baltic states. They lived long enough under the dead hand of State direction. They've embraced much of what Thatcher suggested, and which so many Scots still so childishly despise, and look at how those countries are coming on leaps and bounds economically.
29

lulach mac gille coemgain,

24/05/2008 11:17:53
An act of union requires that we do more F*ck*n’ with our partners - isn’t that what we are all doing at present ?

A lot of F*ck!n’ with each other!
30

Hamish Scott,

24/05/2008 11:33:21
#29
Draco, the SNP are not socialist but social democratic, much like our Scandinavian neighbours.
If the Conservatives win the next Westminster election, as they seem increasingly certain to do, the anti-Tory bloc will rally round the SNP - they will be the Scottish Government and Labour will be finished for years as a credible party of government. This is the crucial difference between our likely near future and the Thatcher years. Last time it was devolution that was going to be our defence, this time it will be independence. After independence I think we will have at least two major parties: one center-left/social democratic and one centre-right. Ironically, I think the Tories in Scotland will only prosper with independence because they will be free of their two handicaps - the Thatcherite-like toryism that doesn't go down well here and the perception of them being the Scottish branch of an English party rather than a pro-Scottish party.
31

Geoff,

sa 24/05/2008 11:49:25
25 and 26 Livilion-thanks for that comprehensive analysis. Yes Cameron can win it on middle England alone, but if he is really serious about defending the Union he has to at least not offend the Celtic fringe. His olive branch to the SNP at the Scots Tory conference was a good start and something that I have been advocating all along(hes obviously been following my posts!) Unionists can not win their argument by being nasty to the ScotsNats. The SNP are a reality that are here to stay. I would not agree with you as to the inevitability of the outcome however. These are interesting times-either Scotland will become an independent Nation or maybe the Unionists can turn the tide. A worse possible scenario would be a Scotland caught in a perpetual Quebec type limbo. Couldnt bear the thought of having to fight you guys for the rest of my natural life!
32

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 24/05/2008 12:16:04
#31 Hamish Scott

Little difference between socialism and social democracy I fear. Both are addicted to the sort of high tax, government-knows-best nannyism that Thatcher attempted to turn back and which Brown and Salmond are doing their damnedest to re-introduce. The UK and Scotland ended up a complete economic basket case the last time it was the political orthodoxy for all the parties. It looks like we're headed that way again. We Scots appear blinkered to thoughts of any alternative.
33

Hamish Scott,

24/05/2008 12:48:27
#33
Draco, social democracy has worked for Scandinavia (though not perfectly), where they enjoy both financial and social prosperity beyond what we have.
34

McGinty,

24/05/2008 18:15:44
The 80's maybe Scotland can forgive, but we mustn't forget. Major, Hague, Howard and Cameron, Blair and Brown all forgot and it was the same mistakes and neglect as their predecessors. Never again.
35

snecked,

Argyll 24/05/2008 20:59:31
Draco keeps giving arguements which favour independence as arguements against. Is this a wind up? The SNP looks to the Baltic states all the time as they fly past us in terms of economic growth.There is a huge SNP business presence in all the Baltic States, particularly in Estonia. Perhaps Draco is unaware of this. Whether the SNP looks to Norway or the Baltic States is hardly the point. The point is these are all small, thriving independent nations.
I predict the LibDems will almost disappear by the time of the next Westminster election. They have been profiting from disgruntled soft Scots Tory votes since the time of the hated Margaret Thatcher. They are now soiled by their association with Labour and their support is seeping away. Some will go SNP, some will go back to the Tories but the big story we all await in Scotland is the fragmentation of "New" Labour which has betrayed the generations of Scots who believed in the Labour Party.
And I repeat again to be a Tory in Scotland and to believe in an Independent Scotland are not mutually exclusive concepts. The Tory Party in Scotland may show some flickering signs of life at the moment but there are several generations of Scots now who are perfectly relaxed about the prospect of Scottish Independence and who would never think of voting Tory. Tory intransigence on the constitutional issue will merely reinforce this. The big winners in Scotland over the next decade will be the politicians who can read the very big writing on the wall and act accordingly.
36

danielrober,

24/05/2008 21:23:56
# 32 Geoff,sa

I won't mind Scotland been as propserous as Quebec.
37

ThomasP,

Aberdeen 25/05/2008 16:20:09
37 danielrober

One country ended up worse off Independent.

Out of the many that are better off then Scotland at the moment.
38

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 25/05/2008 18:12:18
Fancy claiming "The opposition leader after all argues he is the true defender of the Union." - well he had better have a word in big Annabelly's ear cause she is sooking up to Salmonds gNats in a way that will only aid and ultimately further undermine the United Kingdom to the detriment of the Scottish economy long term.

The Tories simply see short term gain and MsGoldie should be ashamed to represent a party called the Conservative and UNIONIST party. A shower of right wing hypocrites the lot of them.
39

ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 25/05/2008 21:47:21
39 Liberal for life,Dunblane

The Tories and Lib Dems have both worked with the SNP Government depite differences on a referendum.

That again is how politcs is played. By working together to get what you want through.

 

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