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Threat of new Cold War looms

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Published Date: 15 August 2008
THE spectre of a new Cold War was raised yesterday, after the United States warned Russia that East-West relations could be damaged "for years to come" if it did not pull back from Georgia.
The comments by Robert Gates, the defence secretary, came as Russia announced it was considering annexing permanently the separatist provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Tensions between the two countries are likely to be heightened further after Poland last night signed a preliminary deal on plans to host part of a controversial US defence shield. The proposal is for the US to base ten missile interceptors in Poland in exchange for help strengthening Polish air defences.

Russia has condemned the project, claiming it would upset the military balance in Europe and has said it would have no choice but to point its own missiles at the installations.

One defence analyst told The Scotsman last night the timing of the deal was no co-incidence and was a clear example of the US "upping the ante".

Yesterday, the White House dismissed Moscow's threats about Georgia's breakaway regions as "bluster" and repeated its demands for Russia to pull its troops out of the area.

Mr Gates said he saw no need for US military force in Georgia, adding: "The United States spent 45 years working very hard to avoid a military confrontation with Russia. I see no reason to change that approach today."

His comments came before the new deal with Warsaw was disclosed, which is certain to anger the Kremlin.

Poland has long seen Russia as a threat to its security, and officials in Warsaw said Russia's activity in Georgia had convinced their counterparts in Washington the deal was necessary.

Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, announced the agreement on national television shortly before it was signed.

Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, reportedly cancelled a scheduled visit to Poland shortly after details of the deal were made public.

Earlier, he declared the world "can forget about" Georgia getting back its two provinces.

He spoke as Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, met the leaders of South Ossetia and Abkhazia – a clear sign that Russia is considering absorbing them.

The Russian refusal to withdraw from Georgia and the comments from Moscow present a challenge to the EU-sponsored ceasefire agreement designed to end seven days of fighting.

Mr Lavrov said: "I believe it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state."

In Washington, Mr Gates warned that if Russia did not step back from "its aggressive posture", relations with the US would suffer gravely.

Meanwhile, US planes flew into Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, with tons of supplies for the estimated 100,000 people uprooted by the fighting.

Anatoly Nogovitsyn, Russia's deputy chief of general staff, claimed he was not sure the planes carried only humanitarian cargo. "It causes our concern," Mr Nogovitsyn said.

Yesterday, Russian forces were still in the city of Gori, only 60 miles from Tbilisi. Russian troops also appeared in several other areas, including around Poti, a Black Sea port city with a key oil terminal.

Professor Michael Cox, an expert on US foreign policy in the post-Cold War era at the Royal Institute of International Affairs, predicted that US-Russian relations would worsen. "I don't think we are looking at a Cold War in the original sense," he said.

"I think this is a crisis that has been waiting to happen. It was always going to be Georgia."

Prof Cox said overlapping economic relations and interests would prevent the crisis turning into something more alarming.

However, he said the Polish deal was a show of strength by the US. "This is the US sending a clear message to the Russians," he said. "It's not coincidental that they signed it tonight. It's an upping of the ante."

Prof Cox, also of the London School of Economics, said that in practical military terms, the deal meant little, but its timing and symbolism were important.

He warned that the Russians were likely to retaliate.

Last night, Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, issued another urgent call to Russia to honour the ceasefire, as she prepared to take the formal agreement to Tbilisi to have it signed by Mikheil Saakashvili, the Georgian president.

Nicholas Sarkozy, the French president, who helped negotiate the deal, said the documents were "intended to consolidate the ceasefire".

• BP has resumed pumping gas into the Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum pipeline that runs through Georgia, but two oil pipelines remained closed last night.

So will the two sides step back from the brink or escalate this into a real crisis?

Russia brushes aside Ukraine's 'nonsense' bid to curtail navy

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 August 2008 12:35 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Georgia , Russia
 
1

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 15/08/2008 00:36:49
Unfortunately history is littered by examples of big countries bullying smaller neighbours.

What is it in human nature that makes us so damn aggresive?
2

2dogs in D.C.,

15/08/2008 01:07:19
And why is it so vital for the U.S. to put missiles anywhere in Europe? Why this bullheaded push? Anyone enlighten me on this?
3

somerferg,

perth 15/08/2008 01:10:43

#1 - as the risk of sounding sexist can I suggest the question might be - what is it in Mankind's nature ?? that leaves out the other half of humanity who are not generally known for causing wars.
4

,

15/08/2008 01:50:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Statsman,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 02:44:07
Why does America have to go around the world starting wars?
6

Amani_Bunduki,

Canberra 15/08/2008 04:34:03
*sigh*
7

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek Australia 15/08/2008 05:55:52
#2 and #3 you both make good points and as the old song goes "It's all in the game".
8

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 15/08/2008 06:02:57
#4 somerferg

At the risk of ALSO sounding sexist, you obvioulsy never met my ex-wife who caused enough wars for the "other half of humanity" on her own ;o)
9

Maksim,

15/08/2008 06:30:05
People and particularly those living in Siberia are so much scared by the prospective US sanctions and negative attitude to Russia from the rest of "civilised" world!:-))) They received so much during the time of "warm" relations between Russia and US that now they sit, think about nothing else but worry about loosing this all.

I am afraid in reality the people really don't care about stupid threats from the US rulers and their stooges from Eastern Europe.
10

,

15/08/2008 07:01:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 15/08/2008 07:18:09
#12 just can't stomach the fact the SNP & an independent Scotland is on the way up, & unionism is on the way out.
12

WHISTLEBLOWER,

15/08/2008 07:19:20
Georgia and the Ukraine both have big problems stemming from the fact that they are being interfered with by the superpowers. Not just Russia, but the USA should keep their noses out of these places, and stop backing various presidential candidates.
13

WHISTLEBLOWER,

15/08/2008 07:21:49
#4 if you think women don't fight wars, read your history.

I don't just mean Helen of Troy.

Margaret Thatcher, Joan of Arc, Golda Meir, Madeleine Albright, Condi Rice, Grainne, Boadecia.

There are plenty of them. They even start/encourage wars sometimes.
14

eric,

Lothian 15/08/2008 07:50:38
I believe it was 2 woman charged with Murder of the British newlyweds!And Myra hyndley was a woman.
15

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 07:52:48
No mention of the warmonger Bush agreeing a deal with Poland to position US missiles there?
16

Bigwull,

edinburgh 15/08/2008 08:17:30
Remember Bush believes in Armaggeddon, he's not got long left with his finger on the button, be afraid, be very afraid
17

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 15/08/2008 08:20:31
Will our outgoing PM agree to send a few battalions of our servicemen to bolster his ratings, and keep his job?
When is the EDITOR going to mention the killings of our troops in Afghanistan? Is their a stop on this information being made public??
18

W Smith,

Middle East 15/08/2008 08:24:01
Interesting.

I mention the SNP's Hanif (at #12) and The Scotsman deletes the comment.

What's even more interesting is the SNP bloggers don't mind.

FUNNY THAT.
19

Gusto,

15/08/2008 08:37:40
It's not the threat of a "cold war" that worries me, that's not a threat, it never went away - its the threat of a very real hot one that bothers me. What bothers me even more is the anti-autodidactism of those still stuck in the last cold war mentality. Of course it was Korea's fault, and Vietnam's fault, and Irak's fault - yeah, right!
Europe is becoming a yankee puppet - right up to the Russian border. CNN or BBC - impartial? a choice? - pleeeeaaase!! Why does the Scotsman tag along? Try the truth - it's very nice actually, educative too.
20

Helmut Smegma,

Cheeseburg,PA. 15/08/2008 08:42:29
#16 Cuba to the U.S.is the shortest way (had they missiles there.)
21

,

15/08/2008 08:49:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

AJ Fife,

15/08/2008 09:08:35
This is the legacy Bush has been looking for - a return to the 'good ole days' of potential mass destruction!

He's one sick hombre!
23

Scars,

Hamilton 15/08/2008 09:09:52
This nonsense is proliferated by the USA in an attempt to destabalise and effect economic trends. This has hew-haw to do with the common man, or the people on the ground in Georgia. Its about the flow of oil, the control of natural resource. More importantly right now its about creating havoc for those that are not in the mess the USA is in.

You gotta laugh at this missle defence system. It will be hosted by all America's "allies" with a view to stopping rouge nations (Why are they rouge and with whom?) dropping WMD in the land of the fake and the home of the greed. The irony being that any fall out will dissapate over said country and not the USA. Great for the septic tanks, not so good for whom ever stopped it, but hey, they will be ok."Roll up, roll up, get your missle defense system here, two for the price of three,queue up, buy up, blow up". Blind obedience from countries in the purse of the harbinger of war; ecomomic wilderness for not playing the game.

Russia is a paranoid state with many home grown issues to deal with. But lets be blunt, if you were there, looking back here to the west, and had a modicum of common sense, would you sleep well at night ?

There is only one true instigator on this planet. It functions in complete ignorance, with arrogance and hubris and yet is as effective as a chocolate spanner. Its economy is going down the pan, its people are treated with contempt and programmed to accept it, the welfare system will ultimately lead to a revolution, and its health care, is a club for the rich and the poor can go die elsewhere, plenty of mexicans willing to fill the gaps in the greed machine.

Dont belive the propaganda that is the news,these are but tools of the trade .

There is no future in war, only money for those that have no need for you in their future other than to maintain their status quo.

here endeth the rant !
24

John south of Soutra,

15/08/2008 09:26:46
Do you think the GW thinks that the Georgia they are protecting in the one in the US - I can just here him "we won't let them destroy Atlanta,like the blue coats did"
25

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 15/08/2008 09:27:45
The most prolific and productive profit machine on the planet is WAR!
26

Scars,

hamilton 15/08/2008 09:37:17
#27 the man fae the borders... Good one ! Made me chuckle .. Sad thing is, you may not be too far off the mark ... !! :>)
27

blackley,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 09:45:45
Hey Scotsman! Stop talking up the Cold War eh? It's not gonna happen!
28

K McDonald,

Glasgow 15/08/2008 10:07:51
Statsman,Edinburgh 15/08/2008 02:44:07
Why does America have to go around the world starting wars?>>>>

Gullible Westerners have done a nice job buying the Russian narrative, and ignored the state-sponsored propagandized uniformity of thought that came out of the Kremlin. They no problem with these modern-day echoes of the invasion of Sudetenland.

America: bad, everything against America: good. And that's all there is to it. Tartan day USA is ok thought, so long as the rabbidly anti-American Salmond is the one attending.

Fanatical Islamists inside, fascist Russian gangsters outside and a nice warm Soft-Power blanket of the EU to protect us.
29

,

15/08/2008 11:31:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
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30

weh,

15/08/2008 11:32:06
Cold war?? Cold WAR??

So-this rag purports to analyse the "international" situation, does it??

This rag is useless at analysing the Scots situation-it cant EVEN do that!

So-why should ANY of us BOTHER to read what passes for this rags "analysis" of ANY "international"situation?
31

bluehead,

edinburgh 15/08/2008 11:44:57
the Americans never seem to learn,their deal with Poland to install their nuclear equipment there is an act of blatant aggression,to put this lot on Russian's door stop can only intensify the world problems,I am surprised that Polish people allowed such an insane decision to take place,for in the end the whole of Europe will be sorry
this is Bushmanship at it's x-rated worst.
32

Liam G,

15/08/2008 11:57:13
If America can invade Iraq why carnt Russia invaded Georgia, it was georgia who started the war !
33

Agricolus the Dwarf Engineer,

U....S....A 15/08/2008 12:01:22
Maybe you guys are right. America should keep its nose out of Eurpoean affairs. Just stay over here and let you figure it out yourselves. After thousands of years of constant war, maybe you'll be able to come to a solution. Just like you did when you got together and prevented Hitler from building his might. Just like you did when you went in and deposed Sadaam. And what a good job ya did with that Stalin fella - really showed him, dinja?

The 'end' of the Cold War was just a chance for Russia to regroup, to catch a breath. It sat on a stool in the corner for one minute while a bikini-clad woman walked on high heels around the inside of the ring, holding a card with the number of the round. It waited while the trainer gave it new directions and splashed water in its face. Round two, coming up.

Reminds me of the strong fat kid in elementary school. All the smart kids would befriend him for a while, promising him candy and an extra sandwich for lunch. Then they'd get him to go beat up another kid, so they could feel safe.

Good luck.
34

K McDonald,

Glasgow 15/08/2008 12:11:14
If America can invade Iraq why carnt Russia invaded Georgia, it was georgia who started the war !>>

You been smoking the Pravda-pipe, Liam? It was a Russian set-up. Georgia took the bait and gave gangster Putin his causus belli. Classic KGB tactics: blame the victim. The (Soviet invented) Big Lie machine is still in good working order in modern day gangster state Russia.

How about the "2000 killed" South Ossetians?


NY Times reports that Human Rights Watch is having trouble finding anything like the figure of 2,000 civilian victims of the Georgian military that Russia keeps repeating:

Meanwhile, investigators began to look into allegations of atrocities committed in the separatist enclave of South Ossetia, where the war erupted on Aug. 8. Human Rights Watch reported that researchers witnessed “terrifying scenes of destruction” in four deserted ethnic Georgian villages, and said they the villages had been looted and burned by South Ossetian militias.

Anna Neistat, one of the researchers, said by telephone from Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, that they had found no evidence so far to substantiate Russian claims of widespread brutality by Georgian troops.

Human Rights Watch has been able to confirm fewer than 100 deaths — a far cry from the death toll of 2,000 regularly cited by Moscow.

“If the Russian government continues to claim that 2,000 people were killed as the result of the conflict, it’s time to provide some evidence, it’s time to provide some data, name, age, gender, the circumstances of death,” Ms. Neistat said.




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/world/europe/14georgia.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1


35

Bigwull,

edinburgh 15/08/2008 12:19:32
35 Just like you managed in Vietnam (oh wait a minute you couldn't beat a third world country) yes you've removed Saddam but what have you replaced his regime with and how many innocent lives have been lost in Iraq, maybe your country needs to grow up a bit and actually read(for the few of you that can) their history books, I think you'll find it was Russia that won the 2nd world war, the war in the west was a mere distraction to the Germans.
36

Jambo83,

West Lothian 15/08/2008 12:28:53
Please pardon both my ignorance of politics and warfare... I have never really had a great interest in either subject to be perfectly honest.

How can Russia simply claim the Georgian provinces?
37

Agricolus the Dwarf Engineer,

15/08/2008 12:39:08
37 - Not really saying we did things right - lives were lost in Vietnam, for what? - and we should have marched right out of Iraq and handed them a copy of the Federalist Papers on the way up to the plane and said, "Here - do it like this" (And by the way, I read them). Not really beating my chest about our military. Yeah, we've screwed up some things. I would just rather we kept our noses home, on our own faces, instead of going across the pond and getting them blown off, in an unwelcome attempt, albeit well-intentioned, to help our neighbors and ancestral links.
38

K McDonald,

Glasgow 15/08/2008 12:45:56
38 Jambo83
How can Russia simply claim the Georgian provinces?>>>

Putin issued the SO's with Russian passports - within the last 4 years. Therefore, according to Putin's twisted KGB logic, S. Ossetians are Russians and S. Ossetia belongs to Mother Russia. (A bit like England issuing English Passports to English people living in an Independent Scotland and then claiming the English enclaves are part of England).

Russian passports have been issued to other similar enclaves throughtout the former Soviet Union - again within the past 4 years or so. So watch this space for more "genocidal attacks" by "vicious" wee countries on big cuddly teddy bear Russia.


"What's our is ours, and what's yours is negotiable"

Leonid Brezhnev - Soviet President USSR 1964 to 1982
39

Piotr,

Warsaw 15/08/2008 12:47:07
Where to find 2000 killed Ossets? - In a Putin's dream. Don't forget that KGB not only likes terrorizing and killing foreigners from conqered lands. One of their favourite things is also to terror and kill those who are loyal to Russia. Now we come the the well-known paradox of the Russian nature. Russians do not mind being treated like slaves by their own government. This can cause some minor discomfort for them, but it is pretty compensated when they see other nations are treated the same way.
40

K McDonald,

15/08/2008 12:58:24
Piotr,Warsaw 15/08/2008 12:47:07
Where to find 2000 killed Ossets? - In a Putin's dream. Don't forget that KGB not only likes terrorizing and killing foreigners from conqered lands. One of their favourite things is also to terror and kill those who are loyal to Russia. Now we come the the well-known paradox of the Russian nature. Russians do not mind being treated like slaves by their own government. This can cause some minor discomfort for them, but it is pretty compensated when they see other nations are treated the same way. >>>

Western liberal apologists and Putin worshippers please read Piotr's words and mark them very carefully. Those who lived under Russian imperial rule are the most vociferous critics of the Georgia invasion. They know Russia, they know they are next on the gangster hit-list.

There is more chance of finding evidence of WMD in Iraq than there is of finding 2000 S. Ossetis killed by "genocidal Georgians".
41

Geoff,

sa 15/08/2008 13:10:16
Aint no particular fan of George Bush and think that the anti-missile shield is unnecessarily provocative not to mention probably unworkable. Also someone made the analogy-if Scotland and Wales left the UK and joined the Warsaw Pact,England would be justifiably p**sed off! Havin said that though i think Putin is a warmongering despot who somebody will have to face down one day. Sad for little Georgia-BUT one of the drawbacks of being a WEE country is that BIG countries can push you around and you cant always rely on your friends> Putin wouldnt try it with Great Britain and N Ireland! United we Stand!!!
(says he trying somewhat obscurely to make a point!)
42

georgia,

outside chicago 15/08/2008 14:28:00
Bush/Cheney/Norquist, etc. are provocateurs who know no tugs of conscience, who have no reason to speak/act/not speak/not act except the bottom line.

They have gotten us Americans to expect less and less of government except to rule and pillage. Our health care is in shambles, our schools turn out people who can barely write their own names, and our roads and bridges are like Third World infrastructure. The federal government has withdrawn support from the individual states, so each one is struggling to survive. I paid 99 cents (50 pence) for gas just a couple of years ago, and now it is four times as high (I know Europeans have consistently paid more for gas than we have, but the quadrupling of price is totally unscrupulous). There is no coincidence in this - it has been a planned attack on our economy from within.

And now Bushie and cronies are planning the coup d'etat, which will be involvement in war so complete, so overcoming, that the present king will have to stay on the throne (by his own commission), and we will have our own King George....
43

Incandescent,

15/08/2008 14:48:12
#33

Nothing nuclear in the missile shield. It's basically a land-based equivalent of the naval Aegis system, which uses "kinetic" warheads to severely disrupt ballistic missiles, rather than completely destroy them with sheer explosive power.
44

Billy Boy,

Sherman Oaks California 15/08/2008 15:20:43
Well it looks like most folks are realizing that our FRIEND IS the ENEMY!
45

Alice Kirk,

USA 15/08/2008 16:07:29
Billy Boy, that's exactly what I was thinking . . . The Scots smile at us when we throw money their way, but their hearts are tainted. Figurately speaking, on this issue they're like the Campbells who masacared the Macdonalds.
46

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 15/08/2008 17:38:28
Imperialism rules, ok?

It makes you wonder if, had Bush (& Blair) not illegally invaded Iraq, would Russia have invaded Georgia? Hmmm?

Whatever.

In this instance Russia is the transgressing aggressor and a cursory glance at the borders involved would suggest that Moscow control of Abkhazia and South Ossetia would give a similar strategical expansionist footprint on Georgia as Berwick with regard to Scotland.

47

McGinty,

15/08/2008 18:37:49
This is divisive nonsense, Scotland and North America are joined at the hip, have been for hundreds of years, culturally, linguistically and intellectually as well as politically and economically. Just listen to any Radio Scotland programme or TV channels late at night and there'll be a heap of American folk and roots, country, contemporary, films, sitcoms, drama etc. you name it and much more ad infinitum (including a lot of cr*p as well). All this stuff about the 2nd World War is neither here nor there, especially in Britain, most people are arguing about the break-up of the U.K., and our memories of collective effort by the people and military are sadly forgotten and not considered relevant to current political culture. Also Britain's post-war debt to America was paid off a couple of years ago. Economically there may be trade wars occasionally, but politically, if the U.S. would do the same as the Scots (Blair is gone (move on) and Broon's on his way) and vote out their discredited taskmaster, there would be a sea change in favour of the states. Regardless of other differences, most of the West is united in its contempt and disgust at puss-in-boots and his bear/bare-headed belligerence.
48

James1480,

15/08/2008 20:19:51
Hey #3. If women are seen to be peaceful types, it's only because they have not had the opportunity that men have had to start wars. Have you ever read Kippling? Do you recall these lines, or something close:

"We built a road,
We broke a king...,
When the widdow give the party!"

Not widdower, widdow. As in old queen Vic.
A female she.

49

K McDonald,

Glasgow 15/08/2008 20:26:07
44 georgia,outside chicago 15
And now Bushie and cronies are planning the coup d'etat, which will be involvement in war so complete, so overcoming, that the present king will have to stay on the throne (by his own commission), and we will have our own King George>>>>


Jaysus. Here was me thinking Putin was an irredentist and ultimate KGB wido. But all along he has really been stupider than a monkey Bush's puppet. GWB is really and evil genius plotting the most astonishing act of statecraft in the history of the world? Who knew?

Poor Vlad, he couldn't achieve the feat of staying on as the gangster regime's head-honcho. Even the Russian constitution was robust enough to see off that notion. He had to call himself Prime Minister and appoint a mini-me called Medvedev to do his bidding.



50

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 15/08/2008 20:27:44
#51 James1480: I have read Kipling, not Kippling. You do not appear to have realised that you were reading fiction. No further comment required.
51

Media 1,

cape town 15/08/2008 20:42:43
For peace to prevail, the following must happen without question.

1. Russia must pull out of Georgia.
2. Israel must pull out of Palestine.
3. Britain and America must pull out of Iraq.
4. Britain and America must pull out of Afghanistan.
5. America must stop agitating Iran.
6. America must stop financing Israel.

Once those 6 things happen, then we can sit down and speak about possible peace. Until then it is a nuclear war threat and universal destruction on the cards.
52

K McDonald,

Glasgow 15/08/2008 21:26:15
Choice 1: ok.

Choice 2: ok, as long as both sides agree terms.

Choices 2,3,4,5 involve capitulation, in some form or another, to followers of a violent, misogynistic totalitarian 7th century belief system. No thanks.

Option 6. None of my business what the US, or any other country for that matter, does with their money.

I better dust down my protect and survive book then. In-coming ICBMs.
53

James1480,

16/08/2008 00:40:49
Well Blackie, tell that to the Zullus. Among a few others.
54

Nellie,

Liverpool 16/08/2008 00:42:16
#42 Maybe the Russians took the example of the US, when it invaded Panama using the excuse that it was protecting US citizens?

Whatever, there are no "good guys" in this business - they're all bad.
55

mcbogtrotter,

mccalifornia 16/08/2008 00:56:46
I guess most of you dont get it, the USA has never taken land from anyone, something that cant be said for the rest of you.
But in a world of one economy with citizens of the world we still have some that would like to rule it all just like Europe of old.
So how bout we back off and leave you all to pull Potatoes from the dirt like the old days, or maybe you can learn to do business in an even handed manner.
It would be nice if you all could quit moaning and understand you do not count your to small the game will be secided by bigger fish.
56

David Nisbet,

Kirkintilloch 16/08/2008 01:23:10
Bush is sitting there thinking "Afghanistan? Not enough. Iraq? Not enough. North Korea? Damn, missed a good chance on that. Iran? Probably missed out on that too. Russia? Yeah, let's **** them off again, that should do the trick"
The man (and I use the term loosely) is determined to see the world in a grave while he still has the chance.
57

Billy Boy,

Sherman Oaks California 16/08/2008 15:54:56
#47 Sorry Alice, I was speaking as a BRIT! # 58 I.m not sure what you are talking about but "potato picking" was one of the happiest times of my life.
58

Billy Boy,

Sherman Oaks California 17/08/2008 04:57:24
#2 I believe the answer is, Stupidity, by thinking force acieves anything of value and Ignorance induced fear.
59

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 25/08/2008 07:34:18
"Threat of new Cold War looms"

....and we all know who to blame.

George Bush and his cronies will probably not be as quick to invade or bomb Russia as the other tin-pot outfits they've attacked.



 

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