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The chavs and chav-nots in a bitter war of words

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Published Date: 21 July 2008
Is 'chav' a fair description of a modern-day youth sub-culture, or a snobbish attack on the white working classes? Sandra Dick investigates.
THE girls have flash designer clothes – probably hot off the counterfeit production line – enough bling to stock a branch of H Samuels and spray-on tans.

The boys, meanwhile, sport Burberry baseball caps, Lacoste tracksuits, white Reeboks and a cocky swagger.

They are, of course, chavs – but for goodness sake, don't dare say it, because chav now finds itself on the ever-growing list of politically incorrect taboo words and phrases that anyone with a social conscience never should be heard uttering.

At least that's what Tom Hampton, editorial director of left-wing think-tank the Fabian Society, says. He argues the word chav is "sneering and patronising", that it represents social discrimination and is motivated by middle-class disgust for anyone lower down the social scale.

Far from being a means of describing someone's fashion sense and attitude, the word, he believes, "betrays a deep and revealing level of class hatred".

Along with a growing band of like-minded commentators, he would like the chav discrimination to stop.

"It is sneering and patronising and – perhaps most dangerous – it is distancing, turning the 'chav' into the kind of feral beast that exists only in tabloid headlines," he declares.

"This is middle class hatred of the white working class, pure and simple."

So if you happened to think of chav as simply a word to describe a certain tier of society with a vulgar taste in fashion, gobby attitude and one Sovereign ring too many, then watch out – for using it could be about to become as offensive as calling someone with red hair 'ginger', someone with big bones 'fat' or a follicly-challenged gent 'baldy git'.

For according to Mr Hampton, uttering the word chav is as socially unacceptable and non-PC as the likes of faggot and pikey.

Is calling someone a chav, or for that matter a ned, really any worse than labelling youngsters mods or rockers in the sixties, describing ambitious high earners in the eighties as yuppies, or branding Marilyn Manson fans goths?

Or have Mr Hampton and the politically correct brigade actually got it spot on– by declaring someone a chav, are we really making a sweeping snooty comment about their social class.

Laura Midgley certainly sees no harm in branding the Burberry baseball cap brigade in their pimped-up hatchbacks and fake designer togs chavs, but then as the spokeswoman for the Campaign Against Political Correctness, she wouldn't, would she?

"I've heard the argument that this is a voiceless group we're offending and they need to be protected. Well I can think of plenty of groups of people who are voiceless – the elderly, the disabled, for instance. I don't think chavs are among them," she argues.

"There are words that are really socially unacceptable and offensive, but I don't think chav is the worst thing you can call someone and I've honestly never heard anyone complain about being called a chav. In fact, a lot of people seem to want to be one. It's like being part of a gang.

"What about calling someone a toff? Isn't that offensive? Shouldn't that be banned too, on the grounds it's singling out someone because of their class?"

Even if we all learn to avoid using the term to describe this sub-culture group of youths, it won't be the death of the chav, for according to Edinburgh University Professor of Sociolinguistics Miriam Meyerhoff, while there are plenty of words out there that have become taboo because of their strong negative connotations, they never really disappear.

"It's interesting that sometimes these words can be used by the people who are members of that particular group themselves – because within their own group it's not a derogatory term."

Arguing that the word widens the gap between the classes is off-beam too, she adds. "It's a fact of life that the middle class don't view the working class particularly positively – that's hardly new. OK, so there's a word for it now, but it's those attitudes that are objectionable, as opposed to what they call them."

While England seized on chavs, in Scotland we have their 'white trash' cousins, the neds, an expression which gained prominence in the seventies thanks to the TV series Crimedesk, with presenter Bill Knox regularly spitting out the word to describe petty criminals.

They're both sweeping stereotypes, agrees psychologist Cynthia McVey. She says: "

If you impose correctness or manage it through the law and force people to become afraid to say certain things, then it doesn't always work. It can make the situation worse and make the word even more attractive to some people.

"Besides, you can't really ban a word."


The full article contains 811 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 July 2008 8:24 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

paulr,

edinburgh 21/07/2008 09:21:57
CHAV, chav, chav, ned ,ned, NED
Suitable descriptors for the yobs.
No taste in fashion or style, no manners, no common decency.
If this offends, TOO BAD, its accurate.
Perhaps the descriptors hit too close to home for
"Tom Hampton, editorial director of left-wing think-tank the Fabian Society"
2

bluehead,

edinburgh 21/07/2008 09:30:44
can anybody speak english any more!?we seem to have become a nation of weird people, using weird words to explain ourselves.
3

Clive Hamblin,

21/07/2008 11:06:52
Has Tom Hampton got enough to do?

Leave it alone Tom;you'll go blind!
4

tog,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 12:05:15
Can we still use schemmies, if that is how you spell it?
5

I love to eat Sellotape,

21/07/2008 12:19:23
I think anyone called "Dick" needs to be careful about names.
6

Ecto,

London 21/07/2008 12:47:55
Ned is a Weegie word that should not be used in the Edinburgh paper.

Schemie is much more accurate, they are all scumbags who should have no rights anyway, the more they are "protected" the less there is of an incentive to pull themselves out of the pit and miseable lives that they inhabit. And yes I was born into a schemie family.
7

True Jambo,

21/07/2008 12:52:18
buckfast swelling chavs
8

Louis Catorze,

21/07/2008 13:03:32
"This is middle class hatred of the white working class, pure and simple."


You may have a chip on your shoulder, Tom Hampton, but none of us out here in the real world do.

They are chavs. Simple really.

YOu see, pikey is offensive, because it is used to describe an ethnic group, who can't chnage who they are.

F@ggot is used to decribe a group who have no wish to change their sexual orientation.

BUt chav is used to describe a group who can't bothered to change, but could.

It's got nothing to do with sneering at lower orders and evrything to do with taking the mick out of those most deserving

9

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

21/07/2008 13:03:39
"At least that's what Tom Hampton, editorial director of left-wing think-tank the Fabian Society, says"

Like we're going to listen to some bedwetting socialist. "Left-wing think-tank" is an oxymoron.
10

The Hallucinist,

21/07/2008 13:20:26
#10 What do you think the Fabien Society would say about a night watchman, for the funfair in the meadows?
11

I love to eat Sellotape,

21/07/2008 13:34:24
I think the name "Asswipes" might work here.
12

elayne,

21/07/2008 13:37:01
a chav is a chav simple as that!they are a product of society,i think its funny how overweight young girls insist on wearing white tracksuits,so not a good look!my town is invaded by them today,its market day!(chav heaven)the bingo seats will be heaving under the weight of all those big @rses!
13

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/07/2008 13:41:37
"Sandra Dick investigates." Aye, right.

"Sandra Dick spends ten minutes knocking up a rehash of a story that's been done a hundred times before, each time better than this, and considers interviewing the Campaign Against Political Correctness as bringing balance to this sneering, pointless piece of sub-journalism." Would be more accurate.
14

I love to eat Sellotape,

21/07/2008 13:49:12
OTHER NAMES CHAVS COULD BE CALLED

1. Chaves
2. Piltdown Men
3. Zongos
4. Other
5. Redcurrant Jelly
6. Stamen
7. Nutterballs
8. The Beatles
9. Laboratory Mice
10. Mr and Mrs George Squondis
15

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 13:51:09
Chav, Ned or whatever you want to call them, they are all idiots with a lower than average intellect and should be treated as such.
16

FC Barcelona,

21/07/2008 13:59:28
"This is middle class hatred of the white working class, pure and simple"

but they dinnae actually work, too busy scrounging from the dole !!
17

Hibsterical,

21/07/2008 14:07:48
It's nothing to do with middle class hatred of the white working class; it's all to do with respect for your neighbours and others around you.

I think we should stop being patronising and discriminating against chavs/neds when they start to have an ounce of respect for anyone else in the same vicnitiy as them.

Yours, a white working class person who doesn't terrorise my neighbourhood.
18

elayne,

21/07/2008 14:42:31
i would say some chavs are not even working class,never done a days work in their sorry lives,they just breed lots of mini chavs,keeps sportswear and tacky gold "jewellery"manufacturers in a job,jump housing queue,and take the **** out of honest hard working folk!
19

antifa,

21/07/2008 14:45:22
18 - problem is, as "a white working class person", a lot of wealthier people would refer to you as a chav.

As for whether these words are offensive and should be frowned upon, look at comment No.7:

"Schemie is much more accurate, they are all scumbags who should have no rights anyway."

Spoken like a true Fascist.

If this was just a matter of anti-social behaviour, then lots of people would be called chavs that aren't.

For example, Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head has probably never been called a chav, ned or schemie.

Yet he's overweight (consumes more resources than his due), drives irresponsibly (putting our kids at risk) and allows his dog to foul the pavement (ditto).
20

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 15:23:17
20:

"Yet he's overweight (consumes more resources than his due), drives irresponsibly (putting our kids at risk) and allows his dog to foul the pavement (ditto)."

How do you know I'm overweight? Just a hunch that you thought you'd try to twist into fact?

I do not drive irresponsibly. If you think I do by simply reading these pages then you clearly know nothing about driving and probably should not be on the road yourself.

And I do not have a dog.

Now, have you got any more fiction that you want to make up and post about me or have you finished? If so, get back to watching the Tweenies. You may learn something.
21

blackley,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 16:01:44
Oiks.
22

amother,

edinburgh 21/07/2008 16:36:04
who or what are chavs?
are we talking about youths from council housing estates?
as most yobs i know come from private estates , standing around with hoods up (no one under 18 would seen dead in a burberry)TRYING TO BE GANGSTERS.trying to look like the chavs they've seen on tv.
the kids in the council estate were i live have better things to do with their time.
wondering were all these dole spongers or chavs get the money for the fast hatch backs. more like chav s with better of parents who don't have a clue what their kids are up to as both out at work to allow the children a better start.
23

tomias,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 16:40:19
Chav is derived from a " romany" word.
24

Johnny J,

M 21/07/2008 16:49:21
The Edinburgh police..esp "D" Division... used to refer to them as "Mongs" a few years back.

Perhaps, someone can confirm if this is still the case?
25

antifa,

21/07/2008 17:29:05
21 - sorry if I touched a nerve, but you are anti-social and encourage anti-social behaviour in others (e.g. in dealing with their dogs properly, in deciding what car to drive; or how often to drive it). Basically, you have the moral maturity of a 2-year old.

That you are overweight is clear from your comments on previous threads (fat people are the one group of put-upon people that you stand up for). I'm a pretty mild guy - don't usually throw insults around. But here you are having a go at people for being poor and dressing in a certain way and it just winds me up.
26

antifa,

21/07/2008 17:34:06
23 - a lot of these posts are just snobbery borne of fear, don't worry about them.

Most of the kids in my area are decent but probably come into the definition of "chav" just because they dress cheaply.
27

Louis Catorze,

21/07/2008 17:40:14
'Chav' surely is all about the lifestyle and the look, rather than the attitude.

There's a big difference between dressing a particular way and being socially irresponsible.
28

tumshie heid,

21/07/2008 21:14:36
#27
Most of these chavs have no real need to be poor. If they didn't spend all their money on cigarettes, buckie and garish gold jewellery then perhaps they could better themselves?
29

observator,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 21:57:38
Didn't Vogue magazine recently decree that chav was the current style?
30

elayne,

21/07/2008 22:17:12
chav is a combination of lifestyle/fashion/attitude,its dumb lazy and plain daft,who in all seriousness would wear a tracksuit every day(unless on track or field)?when this "style"is worn it says to me"i cant be @rsed trying to look good/work etc"the lifestyle is all about milking what you can from the system and the attitude is "look at me,im so hard"how can anyone take chavs seriously,espec when they have tracky bottoms tucked into manky socks!!!!

 

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