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Sword ban is unkindest cut for Highland dancers

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Published Date: 11 June 2008
FOR almost a thousand years, it has been a demonstration of courage and dexterity, the successful completion of which heralded victory in battle.
But the Ghillie Callum, or sword dance as it is better known, has now been defeated by red tape, according to dance judges who have cancelled its performance at a Highland games, claiming a licence is now required to "transport a dangerous weapon".

Organisers of the Balquhidder and Lochearnhead Highland games have been forced to strike the sword dance off their Highland dance competition after the judges, who in previous years brought their own swords, said this was no longer possible for fear of breaching new legislation designed to control the carrying of knives.

Kenny McCallam, a member of the organising committee of the Balquhidder, Lochearnhead and Strathyre Highland Games, said yesterday that the sword dance had been cut after the two judges refused to transport their official weapons to the games.

In the past, competitors danced around two hand-made "swords", made from blunt steel with an improvised hilt. But the organisers were informed a few years ago that "official" swords should be used and these would be provided by the judges – until now.

"I think it's a terrible shame," said Mr McCallam. "The sword dance has been on the go at the games for decades, but given the events that have taken place and the problems of terrorism, people are clamping down on all sides. The judges said they had been advised not to carry them, that a licence may now be required and we don't have time to apply for one."

However, it would appear that the judges, who did not wish to be named, or quoted, are mistaken. The Scottish Government, under the Custodial Sentences and Weapons (Scotland) Act 2007, plans to establish a scheme for the licensing of knife-dealers with a view to restricting the sale, hire, lending or giving of swords and bladed weapons.

But the act is not yet in force and will have specific caveats to protect the use of swords for religious or cultural reasons. A Scottish Government spokesman said: "When we do bring forward restrictions on swords, the legislation allows defences for religious, cultural and sporting purposes among others."

Documentation with the bill added: "In addition, the bill allows defences for other purposes to be specified by Order, and ministers will use this power to provide exceptions to the ban on sale for specified purposes… including Highland games."

Last night, Helen Ford, the director of administration at the Scottish Official Board of Highland Dancing, insisted there was no restriction on the transportation of swords for dancing. "The scheme is not yet in force and we have been told we will not be affected and the dance will continue."


The full article contains 470 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 June 2008 1:39 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 11/06/2008 01:46:36
I don't blame those fearty judges for not wanting to be named. I would be ashamed too.
2

Guga II,

Rockall 11/06/2008 02:00:21
Pathetic. It should be obvious, even to the meanest intelligence, that exceptions would be, and already are, available when knives and swords are carried for specific, legal purposes.

Incidentally, the original sword dances were done in bare feet, with the blade turned upwards.

3

!Ya basta!,

11/06/2008 02:33:40
Don't have time? to apply for a licence. Why not?

Ridiculous situation BTW
4

Sylvia in Regina,

Canada 11/06/2008 04:55:38
Now I have heard everything!!!!! How absolutely ubsurd!!! Having been to our Highland Games a few weeks ago, and seeing how excellent our Sword Dancers were - with many months of practice - it is such a shame that they are even thinking of banning this in Scotland. Hopefully they will change their minds, as so many of our Canadian youth go to Scotland to compete in this great dance competition!!
5

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 05:00:13
What an absolute bunch of red tape. So many Scottish traditions seem to be being legislated against by those gutless wonders in Westminster and Brussels no doubt!
6

donald,

glasgow 11/06/2008 05:02:23
It could only happen in Scotland. How about banning Morris Dancer's sticks?
7

Kingston,

Singapore 11/06/2008 05:23:15
Outrageous.

Obviously our two brave judges prefer bells and handkerchiefs, to swords!



8

Hamish McTavish,

Los Angeles 11/06/2008 06:16:35
What would Wallace or the Bruce say?
9

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhll Road....soon 11/06/2008 06:30:46
Swords, dirks, Ski'in Do's (i know kant spell) targes and the like, where will it stop how about banning Cowboys and Indians or can you do that now in this stuffed up world
10

Ron Thomson,

calonge 11/06/2008 06:46:37
Now Morris Dancers have Clubs and Bells so would this apply to them also.
11

Eckyboo,

11/06/2008 06:49:57
#10 beat me to it. Also trditional Vietnamese dancers wear those long metal spikey finger extensions, are these included in any ban??? Are any other traditions which uses implements being banned???
12

Sinead,

Tanunda 11/06/2008 07:06:13
Sheer bureaucracy!!
13

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 11/06/2008 07:15:47
I volunteer to transport the swords for them. Problem solved!
14

Ron Thomson,

calonge 11/06/2008 07:17:37
If we are talking about Weapons how about, Brown, and Prescott.
Cerimonial Swords in the Asian Comunity,
Hockey Players carrying Hockey Sticks.
Golfers and Golf Clubs.
British Baseball Teams carrying Baseball Bats.
Women carrying Knitting Needles.
The Hob Knobs with their Shotguns.
We should ban the lot just to be safe then.
The list goes on and on.
Last of all would the Household Cavalry be banned from carrying their Swords, i think not.
15

neilmarr,

France 11/06/2008 07:24:32
The simple answer would be to paint the swords on the stage and have the dancers wear tackety boots in case there's any lead in the paint that could result in cancer. Neil
16

Da Bear,

Kali-Forn- Ya 11/06/2008 07:37:15
Umm... You folks are so screwed .... Sorry for the American idiom, but why the heck do you allow your Scottish heritage, traditions and identity be tossed down the politically correct toilet of such governmental tyranny? I have read enough Scottish history to see the deep burning fires of freedom that seared your hearts for 600 years, and now... what.. soft mannered droids, dependent on the failed dreams of a Socialist workers paradise , entire generations without passion and soul? How can any Scotsmen or Scotswoman look at themselves in the mirror each morning and not be ashamed of their lack of basic freedoms? No guns, no knives, no protection from criminals, no free speech, no privacy, almost no property rights, and no possible redress of the Orwellian nightmares of immigration and nationalization.

Wake up and smell the falafel's....I hate to spread the unvarnished truth, but you folks are so screwed!

Da Bear


17

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town 11/06/2008 07:39:28
All part of the plan to eventually transform each and every one of us into State Citizen Model 1 and make Britain as teeth-grindingly boring as Sweden or Belgium.
18

Isonomia,

Lenzie 11/06/2008 07:40:16
It is plain stupid. Laws like this should simply be ignored because they are daft. A knife is a tool carried by many trademen and women, it is obviously used by women and men in the kitchen, and how on earth are you supposed to get a knife home except by carrying it?

Like all dangerous weapons from cars to screwdrivers, it is dangerous because some idiot thinks to use it as a weapon not because of what it is, and if we wanted to ban the most dangerous weapon any of us have it would be the motorcar!
19

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 11/06/2008 07:44:07
Are all the Telegraph readers who appear to have stumbled into this comments thread deliberately ignoring the fact - carefully noted in the article - that there isn't a law in place yet, and even when there is it WON'T actually ban this sort of thing?
20

Alan from Brussels,

How about sgian dhus? 11/06/2008 07:46:43
Just on another point about knives in general. If you are in highland dress, kilt et al - are you breaking the law by having your sgian dhu in your sock in public?

Also if travelling by plane I presume it has to be in checked luggage!
21

Ceolmor,

Canada 11/06/2008 07:50:59
Political correctness gone grazy again.

I know what I would like to do with my sword, and as Jonesy in Dad's Army would have said, "And they don't like it up them!"
22

Iain's,

Barcelona 11/06/2008 07:54:13
First you have to give up bagpipes under noise abatement legislation, then sword dancing under knife legislation, next wee knives worn with kilts, then hairy sporrans under animal rights. Then they'll ban Gaelic under the Terrorism laws because the police can't understand it and is sounds foreign. Then all country dancing under the danger to ankles and noise H&S legislation. Soon you will have no culture.

All this sounds to me like an attempt to destroy Scottish culture and the tourist industry.

Fortunately the kilt is safe under the 'rights for cross dressers' legislation.

Wake up before it's too late!


Be like the Spanish with bull fighting. Ignore those who want to destroy what little unique culture you have left.



23

,

11/06/2008 07:56:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Duncan in Edinburgh,

11/06/2008 08:10:31
Do some of you seriously just read the headline and then start typing?

The punchline here is that there is no ban on sword dancing, no ban on carrying the swords to the games, and no plans to introduce such a ban.

And yet we have almost 20 comments expressing outrage and disgust.

It's enough to make you weep.
25

Jings Crivens,

11/06/2008 08:20:57
lets blame the English for this, the SNiPers usually do
26

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 11/06/2008 08:26:40
#19, #24. Quite right. It hasn't happened yet, but the attitude of the games judges does indicate a malaise in our society. Some day we will have to shake off this curse of political correctness like a dog shaking water off its back.

#23. This is simply a worthless piece of American paranoia. The United Nations is an intergovernmental organisation that cannot exert a world dictatorship, because it can do nothing that does not have consensus agreement by the representatives of its member states. If there is any danger in the direction this film asserts, then it will come from the likes of the European Union, which is definitely out to make itself a supranational authority.

27

Ron Thomson,

Calonge, Catalonia. 11/06/2008 08:36:21
#22. Calonge in Cataluny was the first place in Spain to Ban Bullfighting there is very little Bullfighting in Cataluny it is mostly in the South, Costa el Sol and Costa Blanca and more for tourists as the Old Timers that loved Bullfighting are dieing off and the younger crowd do not have the same interest as they now find it a bit barbaric as the Bull is already dieing before it gets in the ring.
Since Franco died in 1974 Spain has changed there is more freedom for the people now.
28

Aesop,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 08:48:04
Eeejits.

Now where did I put that baseball bat?
29

Stewcam,

Westhill 11/06/2008 08:48:18
Bloody idiots.
30

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 09:23:17
#5

"What an absolute bunch of red tape. So many Scottish traditions seem to be being legislated against by those gutless wonders in Westminster and Brussels no doubt!"

You obviously don't bother reading articles before you comment on them - otherwise you would see that this is a scheme by the SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT under the Custodial Sentences and Weapons (SCOTLAND) Act 2007, it is nothing to do with either Westminster or Brussels. So infact it is the SNP who are 'legislating against Scottish traditions' as you put it.
31

,

11/06/2008 09:29:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

Mcsnagpile,

11/06/2008 09:32:41
At one time it was a hanging offence to wear a kilt, speak Gaelic, or play the bagpipes, in fact I am not sure that these offences have been officially repealed.

New laws should be made limiting the amount of bones in a kipper and limiting the amount of salt in porridge on the grounds of health, dancing swords should be made from hygienic washable rubber, free woolie drawers should be available and compulsory at events.
33

Edward,

11/06/2008 09:34:02
As far as I can see the Judges, who for obvious reasons are remaining anonoumous are completely at fault for not actually understanding the laws, which as it happens are not in place! and if and when they are WILL NOT ACTUALLY APPLY to Highland dancing
34

livilion,

livingston 11/06/2008 09:39:10
#31 Yeah1


"You obviously don't bother reading articles before you comment on them - otherwise you would see that this is a scheme by the SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT under the Custodial Sentences and Weapons (SCOTLAND) Act 2007, it is nothing to do with either Westminster or Brussels. So infact it is the SNP who are 'legislating against Scottish traditions' as you put it."

WHOOPS!!

>>Custodial Sentences and Weapons Bill
03/10/2006


A Bill to end the current system of automatic and often unconditional early release and ensure offenders are subject to restrictions for their entire sentence was published today.

The Custodial Sentences and Weapons (Scotland) Bill, now introduced to Parliament, will also impose new curbs on the sale of non-domestic knives, including a ban on the general sale of swords.

Justice Minister Cathy Jamieson said:

"This Bill strengthens the criminal justice system to further improve public safety and confidence in two areas which have rightly generated considerable debate.<<

You were saying?!
35

CRBAbdn,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 09:42:59
Just a suggestion - if you must comment on an article please read it first. If you can't read it all, try the headline, first couple of paragraphs and the last couple. That way you won't make comments about this being an outrage when all that has happened is that a couple of judges have made a fools of themselves.

There should be some kind of fine system on here for people who comment without reading. Or perhaps a fine every time the Scotsman reports a non-story, because that's what this is. A shorter version would be "two people thought something was banned, so cancelled something, they were wrong and now look silly".
36

bruxelloise,

11/06/2008 09:44:22
It seems as if the majority of those who have commented on this story have not even properly read the text. There is no ban on Scottish dancing (#4), nor is it the case that Scottish traditions are being "legislated against" (#5) or "tossed down the toilet (#16). Read the whole article before spouting such shallow, reactionary, Daily Record-style bile. A licensing system for those who deal in knifes is going to be set up (not such a bad idea, eh?) and there is a general prohibition on carrying weapons in a public place (which has existed for many years now) that incorporates exceptions for cultural/religious reasons (also in existence for many years). Not a bad thing either.
37

livilion,

livingston 11/06/2008 09:48:41
#36 CRBAbdn,Aberdeen

Perhaps there should be a fine for misleading Scotsman headline writers?

This publication is notorious for producing headlines followed by 'quotes' from unattributable sources to back up their assertions, only to be directly contradicted by the actual facts, often tucked away somewhere in the detail as here.

It certainly get the likes of you and me wound up, and we're the smart cookies, aren't we?
38

TREV,

Poland 11/06/2008 09:51:22
Surely if a sword is blunted (or never actually sharpened)then it isn't really a sword (as in a weapon), it is just a long piece of metal.

Even IF this law comes into effect then surely blunted swords would be allowed.
39

Parking Permit,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 09:54:32
Here are the FACTS.
The Legislation is the most badly worded inane piece of nonsense that Cathy Jamieson could come up with. The procedure for having a Defence in Law for carrying swords is cumbersome and had not been properly explained. I can therefore understand the judges confusion. As to the licensing it is likely to cost a fortune. I sell old bayonets at military shows. I sell about 12 per year. For that I will need a licence costing anything up to £220.
What all the numpties who voted for this legislation forgot was that swords and knives to not injure people criminals and neds do. Stop licensing objects and start lifting and jailing knife carrying criminals and neds.
40

bruxelloise,

11/06/2008 10:03:54
#40 Here are the FACTS:

The legislation to which you refer on the carrying of offensive weapons and the applicable legal defences HAS BEEN ON THE STATUTE BOOK SINCE 1995 and has been in constant use since then! It therefore has nothing to do with Cathy Jamieson. If you are confused, try reading up on it.
41

Clive Hamblin,

11/06/2008 10:11:00
#20 Alan - as I understand it, if you are wearing a kilt and have a sgian dhu 'in your sock,' the law sensibly, regards it as an 'article of dress.'It's a pity that it can't regard the proposals concerning othe matters of Scottish culture similarly.
42

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 10:12:45
"according to dance judges who have cancelled its performance at a Highland games, claiming a licence is now required to "transport a dangerous weapon"

And for that, they should be sacked.
43

G,

dundy 11/06/2008 10:17:12
Non-story...no licence is required...there is no story
44

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 10:25:07
#35

Erm....Yes I was saying this is a Scottish Government Act, it is nothing to do with Westminster or Brussels, nothing in your post contradicted this in any way, so I'm not sure what your point is?
45

Dancer,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 10:28:13
Are Cabers being banned? Shot Putting, Hamer Throwing. Will we be reduced to skimming stones over the Lochs?
46

WeeJimmy,

Porton, Wilts, UK 11/06/2008 10:55:30
If these 2 judges will not agree to bring the swords, then why not select 2 other judges that will?
47

AlecJ,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 11:02:20
After 1745 the Pipes were banned. What happened to that ban? Are the "judges" going to enforce that ban as well? The main effect of that was to put the English soldiers into a panic when they heard the skirl of the pipes. No doubt there are "jobsworths" in the police who would jump to enforce _any_ regulation they can seize on. Assassination never looked better for these jobsworths.
48

A Scot,

11/06/2008 11:08:53
The judges should be ashamed of themselves for giving in to the aims of terrorists, i.e. to make us change the way we live our lives. Before you are accepted as judges at such a prestigeous event, then you must be seen by some as having some standing. It's time for you to accept that and then live up to it by example. What would you have done at Glasgow airport sirs?
49

,

11/06/2008 11:18:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

Gabriel,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 11:23:31
The judges should be FIRED.
51

Arran of Arran,

Isle of Arran 11/06/2008 11:34:40
:ironicmood on:

Why not use plastic swords made in China?

:ironicmood off:
52

livilion,

livingston 11/06/2008 11:40:51
45 Yeah1,
>>So infact it is the SNP who are 'legislating against Scottish traditions' as you put it."<<

The legislation you mention was passed before the Scottish Executive in April 2007 a good couple of months BEFORE the SNP were sworn into office.
Cathie Jamieson is a Labour MSP. It was a Labour sponsored bill.

Want pictures?

53

Haggis MacBagpipes,

Central Canada - ex Perth & Glesca' 11/06/2008 11:43:00
I'd rather see my countrymen and women do a wee bit o' venting about something like is hinted in this article than say nothing. It will let Cathy Jamieson, et.al. of the Scottish Government know that my countrymen and women will definitely NOT stand for any changes being made to their lifelong customs and traditions, should she or anyone else in government think about such changes. I get the impression that we, who don't now live in Scotland, are prepared to vent a damned sight more than you who still live there, more's the pity!
Cheers,
Haggis MacBagpipes™©


54

livilion,

livingston 11/06/2008 11:47:31
48 AlecJ,Aberdeen
The proscription lasted about thirty years.

The issue being that the Hanoverian Highland regiments were just as fiercely proud of the national heritage as their Stuart counterparts. A point which more than one British General had to be reminded of when badmouthing the locals in front of his own Scottish forces.

As it ever has been, it took fellow Scots divided and conqured to sell their nation's birthright.
55

Number 6,

Germany 11/06/2008 12:01:19
These 2 have made a laughing stock of themselves. Where did they get that garbage from. The law has not been enacted and it will contain caveats to protect sword dancing. I hope they are not invited back to the Games ever again. Anyone know where we can find out their identity ?
56

Lianachan,

Highlands 11/06/2008 12:03:16
#48 The Act Of Proscription (1746), was actually repealed in 1782. By that time, of course the bad guys weren't English soldiers per se, but British ones - including many Scottish regiments and clans.
57

David Ban,

04620 Vera 11/06/2008 12:16:17
What sort of people are these judges? Surely not Scots! After all the Judges must have made their decision not to transfer the swords ( claidheimh) to the games in the light of advice that to do so was in breach of recent laws. The advice was wrong as there is no prohibition to carry swords for cultural reasons, but surely they could have acted with a modicum of sense and arranged for the games organisers to supply some harmless imitation swords. I could have knocked up something myself!

But to cancel the sword dances-I am speechless- there is something evil and political at work here. Are you sure these judges are not part of the Marxist political credo which is infiltrating our culture to eradicate out history, our traditions, our music, our cultural communication etc.

I would drag the pair of them up for questioning and ban them!
58

Lianachan,

Highlands 11/06/2008 12:32:34
#58 "Are you sure these judges are not part of the Marxist political credo which is infiltrating our culture to eradicate out history, our traditions, our music, our cultural communication etc."

That they may work for Scottish National Heritage, you say? Could be onto something there.
59

Sir Minty Moonbeams, Casino Royale,

11/06/2008 12:33:25
A fantastic decision. This sword dancing is bizarre, a cultural embarresment and glad that a pretext has been found to discontinue this nonsense.

Big fat men twiddling around in skirts over replica weapons is a disgrace.
60

commonsense,

Looking for floating stone. 11/06/2008 12:39:51
#46 Dancer:Answer

Only if you are sure the area is free of fish and you return the stone once used.
61

CLX,

ABZ 11/06/2008 12:47:22
From the mouth's of idiots:

Phil the Greek said:

“If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” (In 1996, amid calls to ban firearms after the Dunblane shooting)

Bless the fool.....
62

Mhairidance,

Nova Scotia, Canada 11/06/2008 13:10:30
Certainly, if Brussels in involved in this charade, I'm sure there were times when they were very glad to see Scottish swords and hear Scottish bagpipes. WWII perhaps? Many of our young Highland dancers go to Scotland to compete. What a shame it would be if they could no longer do the sword dance. Does the minority always rule? Will Scotland lose its unique and wonderful heritage and culture because of such foolishness?
63

Lobo,

Texas, USA 11/06/2008 13:19:23
It's ashamed that your beautiful country has been taken over by oppressive lawmakers. I'm afraid the same is in store for my country after the next election. But for now every time I leave my house I carry a handgun and a knife to protect my family.
I will pray for the citizens of your country that someday you will be free again.
64

Duncan in Edinburgh,

11/06/2008 13:43:39
#64 Is your surname "Tomy" by any chance?

1. The law you bemoan does not exist, and isn't planned to be brought in. Read the article.

2. Living in the US you are many times more likely to be killed or injured if you carry a weapon than if you don't. Rather than protecting your family, you are endangering them.
65

Travis,

Chicago 11/06/2008 14:26:56
Aaahhh that Highland fire, it still burns. I know its not the same, but you use a blunt blade. I belonged to a medieval club here in the states, all the broad swords were blunt. I do agree that it is a bit silly. And to my fellow American in Texas, why do you need a gun and a knife to protect you family? I am thinking, if I needed that just to leave my house, I would be living somewhere more safe.
66

doublescotch,

U.S.A 11/06/2008 14:46:34
#65 that was too funny:) took me a sec to catch on.
67

Vancouver,

North Vancouver 11/06/2008 14:49:26
What about the Indians with the Turban they go around carrying small sword like knives under their clothes, they claim it is part of their religion, they also say it is not a weapon? but it is to protect their religion? the weapon I call it is hidden just like the police years ago carried their batton inside the leg of their trousers.
68

Quiet John,

Tinley Park 11/06/2008 14:50:57
You gave up your guns.
You gave up your right to defend yourself.
You gave up your swords.
You are giving away your culture and traditions.

Why? Do you feel safer? Do feel less guilty about being born in Scotland?

This is insanity.
69

Joanna,

Cambs, England 11/06/2008 14:51:06
Yes very funny Duncan @ 65 (probably true as well)

The reaction to this non-story by some of the hysterics (mostly from abroad) on here is hysterical in more ways than one!
70

Wilf McIntyre,

Maple Ridge Canada 11/06/2008 15:05:02
I am a 1st and 3rd generation in Canada from the Highlands of Scotland and have been proud of my heritage. This is outrageous it makes me want to be ashamed of being a Scot. this terrorism thing is an excuse and is becoming an excuse for politicians to hide behind. Wilf McIntyre MapleRidge Canada
71

Julia,

Alabama 11/06/2008 15:20:58
Lobo! I'm right there with you. I have a gun in my car at all times when I travel alone or with my grandchildren. I have been trained to use it and will if someone threatens us. Sorry! I believe the reason we, in the US, left the UK is because of the way we see our freedom. I honestly can't believe that anyone would just allow their freedoms to be taken from them without so much as a whimper! I guess you are going to allow "the Donald" to RUIN protected land too---without so much as a bleat!
72

Da Bear,

Kali- Forn - Ya 11/06/2008 15:29:42
#70 et al... as a hysteric from abroad...let me ask a couple of questions? Can you stand on the corner of Princess Street and Castle St, and tell your fellow Scots that Islam in not a Religion of Peace, and that Islam really wants to turn Scotland into a Muslim country ruled by Shiria law? Can you legally bop a robber over the head with a fry pan, when you catch him stealing food from your pantry, in your house at 3:a.m.? Is there a single person in the large cities of Scotland have never been the victim of some crime?
73

MichScot,

USAI 11/06/2008 15:30:01
Give me a break! This is SOOOOO stupid!
How many crimes have been committed due to the sword dance/Ghille Callum?
Next, it will be the sgian dubh (anywhere!). After that, the bagpipes (a weapon of war) and the kilts...

But the suicide bombers will get off, thanks to slippery lawyers.
74

MichScot,

USA 11/06/2008 15:32:30
Suicide bombers who have been caught beforehand, that is, and all their organization behind them. This is so you know I meant ones who were about to perpetrate their dastardly deeds, not the ones who succeeded...
75

MichScot,

USAI 11/06/2008 15:40:23
When will they ban foils for fencing?
76

Louis Catorze,

Doon sooth 11/06/2008 15:44:37
What a load of reactionary nonsense from some of the posters here.

Even after the obvious is pointed out by those who can actually read (#36 for example) the tired old cliches are still trotted out.

I am sick to the back teeth of having to defend Scotland/Scots to people in London who cannot understand why there are so many Scots with an enormous chip on their shoulders.

If there was ever an argument for the ending of universal suffrage it is most certainly to be found here.



77

MichScot,

USA 11/06/2008 15:48:24
I don't know the title of the song, but it talks about "men, once so brave in battle" being cowed as they were deported. Looks like deportation #2 or, at least, the deportation of your culture. First the English and the landholding Scots who helped them, and now who is to blame? The perpetrators or the helpless, passive victims?

Wake up, guys! You need to fight this!
78

marc,

expat in Canada 11/06/2008 15:55:27
Bizarre and very worrying.
I Can't believe people are paid hard earned taxpayers money to be so stupid. Given the dire state of the economy in the UK, isn't it time that parasites like this were put to the sword?!
79

Duncan in Edinburgh,

11/06/2008 15:55:50
#78 Hello? Is this thing on?

NO WE DON'T NEED TO FIGHT THIS, BECAUSE IT ISN'T HAPPENING.

Sorry to shout, but the message just doesn't seem to be reaching over the Atlantic.

NO-ONE IS BANNING THE SWORDS, NO-ONE IS PREVENTING THE DANCING.

Really. So all you "gee my great grandpappy was a proud old Scotch man who played the kilt and wore his bagpipes" peons can rest easy. The "old country" is not going to the dogs.
80

Ronald Telfer,

Oak Bay, BC, Canada. 11/06/2008 16:01:22
We went through all of this in Canada regarding the "Kirpan", ceremonial knives worn by East Indians of the Sikh persuasion as part of their religious beliefs. They are still worn openly although these knives are "offensive weapons", so too is the ceremonial dagger still tucked into knee high stockings by those of us who wear the kilt from time to time. Will this be banned as well in Scotland?
81

Phil the Flooter,

11/06/2008 16:18:19
While nothings banned tho the frightened mice who pass for 'Officials' these days will try to stop anything with 'risk'.. I have just been to a Primary School flower planting event where all the kids MUST wear Latex gloves when working ther soil... We are rearing a bunch of Namby Pambies because of these fools.
82

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:19:01
Duncan in Edinburgh has it right.

When this legislation was being discussed, those of us who use swords for historical fencing and re-enactment purposes protested. We were given the "defence", which will do for now, but isn't really the point, which is that the gvt saw an easy way of scoring points.
The aim is to reduce the number of cheap katanas that get into the hands of neds. We're talking £20, £50 each, good for posing, not so good for fighting.
So they decided to ban the general sale of swords, except for antiques, re-enactment purposes etc, and the seller has to get a licence.

Given the level of stupidity in the gvt, we were probably lucky to get that much. But hordes of non-sword users couldn't care less, because none of this will affect them in any way.
(A similar thing happened with airsoft a year or two ago)
83

Parking Permit,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:21:00
No 41
It's you that needs to do the reading. This is NOT the 1995 Act. It is Section 3 of the Custodial Sentences and Offensive Weapons of 2006 or 7 I cannot remember now. In essence the first 2 parts of the Bill changed a lot of the parole system and the 3rd Section of the Act Banned Swords and stated that any business selling 'Non Domestic Knives' had to be licensed. The Defence in law for having a sword was that you had to be a member of a recognised organisation. It was bad law in that it was a hybrid bill covering two seperate issues and was like parts of the Violent Crime Reduction Act of 2006 cobbled together to back up an ill thought out announcement by an incompetent minister. Cathy 'I'm an Idiot' Jamieson.
84

HeckFarr,

Tennessee 11/06/2008 16:21:38
Swords, knives, firearms, hammers, pointed sticks...They are all inanimate objects.

Anyone that believes otherwise should be banned.
85

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:50:01
The fact that this issue has even been raised is very worrying indeed. Regardless of whether or not it has the basis in truth---about the banning of swords or dancing or whatever---things like this shouldn't even be an issue.

THAT is the worrying thing. Like many have said on this thread, the nannys are taking over and guess what? No-one is doing anything to stop them. The idiots who refused to "transport" the swords should be fired immediately.
86

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 11/06/2008 17:36:27
On a similar thread, I am told by my Canadian friend that a Scottish teacher in Ontario taught some Scottish country dances to school children. Has anybody here ever danced The Merry Gordons? That was what he had to rename the good old 'Gay Gordons'!
87

TeeJayME,

MaineUSA 11/06/2008 17:59:09
First let me apologize for my government and fellow Americans who apparently are illiterate and failed to read the entire article.
Whenever I have visted in Scotland, home to my mother's family (and I still have relatives there) and therefore dear to my heart, I have always felt perfectly safe. Certainly as safe as I feel in the US, probably safer. We here in the US have become overwhelmed with paranoia about terrorists to the point where they, the terrorists, have won. I am ashamed of the barriers my government has placed on people visting this country and I am annoyed by the inconvienence they have placed on me to travel to visit you. TSA is an absolute joke, we are more disliked, dare I say hated, around the world now then we were before the infamous "9/11" event. Yes it was tragic, but other countries have had equal and worse problems, like a foreign country invading and overthrowing their government for example.....Anyway, I ramble here and really wanted to say that the sword dance has always been fun to see, and the swirl of bagpipes moves me to tears, the Highland games are always a joy to attend and exciting. I am glad that the law, as propsed? drafted? enacted? doesn't take away any of the rights you have regarding the traditions that are so dear to me.
Regarding the fools in the southern part of this country that feel compelled to travel armed at all times, I am so sorry for you. and I would add that he who lives by the sword (knive, gun, etc.) dies by the sword.
If only we could all live in peace and harmony together enjoying and valuing the differences between cultures, traditions, religions, skin color, language, gender, sexual orientation, etc., etc., and so forth. What a wonderful and diverse world this is!
88

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 18:01:50
This is amazing. Even the guys in the circus find this difficult to swallow.
89

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 18:08:40
This is nothing new folks, my old Scottish great grand daddy rememembers when zippers were banned from kilts, the noise frightened sheep.
90

Joanna,

Cambs, England 11/06/2008 18:20:50
73

Please read the article properly - this is what is known as media hype - sword dancing has NOT been banned.

People running about brandishing long, shiny pointy swords is, however, not allowed and has not been within living memory. Scotland, contrary to popular opinion in some other countries, is not a Braveheart set.


Read the comments of people who live in Scotland - don't just read the headlines and jump in feet first - have you heard of media hype?

I, by the way, am not Scottish, I am one of the English oppressors.
91

PointOf View,

Edinburgh Falkirk 11/06/2008 18:39:02
This is absolute rubbish. They tried to ban the bag pipes three hundred years ago yet many Scots retained them and played at privately organised functions. Now it the swords, this is a part of the Scottish culture so should be exempt in Scotland for said purposes. Roll on independance and we'll make our own minds up. SNP Alex Salmone ect hope you read this and protect our cultural rights. Don't get confused with anti knife laws your driving forward.
92

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 18:50:56
The reason pipers walk when they play is...moving targets are harder to hit.
93

Lobo,

11/06/2008 19:24:25
To: 65 & 89
When the 12 million invaders ( illegal aliens) get to your state and turn it into a third world country you to will want to carry a firearm for protection also. Over 4000 people have been killed in Mexico this year. Their people are not allowed to protect themselves.
I'm sure you two would gladly welcome all the illegal aliens in Texas to Maine and Scotland.
94

Ron Thomson,

calonge 11/06/2008 19:47:32
A man standing in Princes Street with a Gun in one hand and a Knife in the other.

He was not sure whether to cut up the Mound or shoot along Princes Street
95

,

11/06/2008 20:47:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
96

,

11/06/2008 20:52:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

Singlepoint,

Fife 11/06/2008 21:08:24
Whereas it appears that the article is simply telling that two ‘judges’ erred in law and now look silly; in fact, two ‘judges’ were scared enough or simply eager enough to give up a Scottish tradition which is in fact to give up a national individuality which is to give up individual freedom. This leads directly to the fear of the powerful and then to the misuse of power which today leads directly to the Eurasian Union and to the UN who each wish to enslave and who, incidentally, are indeed against the USA; what it was; what it is; what it stands for. The USA well knows, and so should Scotland, that once the average person of average care and prudence is too scared to resist or is eager to blindly comply then there is every individual freedom at stake and that is so because once the will is gone the all is gone.
98

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 21:08:30
I liked Joanne, I saw her once, I think it was in Wisbech, if it was the right woman. She wanted to know what was worn under my kilt. I told her nothing was worn "everythings in purrfict wurrking orrder".
She also picked her nose in public.
99

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 21:29:10
Actually, the "Last Samurai Warior" was from Dundee.
Perhaps they will make a re-make about a lad from Drumchapel.
100

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California 11/06/2008 21:37:01
To quote/parapharase Mr. Bumbell, "If the law says that sir, then the law is an ass sir." I'm not so sure that the law applies to non-sharp-edged swords and it apparently exempts those for the sword dance. And who gives judges the power to cancel anything anyway?
101

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 21:42:54
#82 Phil the flooter.
Phil check with Duncan in Edinburgh. Duncan make the flowers grow.
102

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 21:46:30
Robert Burns, (I thought you died?) There is no problem with dancers, except wans wi widden feet. Then that could be a big problem.
Joanne from Cambs. will sort things out.
103

Tom Cambeul,,

North 11/06/2008 22:22:13
Another STUPID slash at tradition by a group of british wussies!!!!
104

NYScott,

Upstate NY 11/06/2008 22:41:19
Let me se.. A knife- usually 4 to 6" is a conselable weapon. A sword, unless your wearing a rain coat, isn't very consealable. How the boody 'ell are they alike? Talk about Namby Pamby Bull Poop. Oh wait I know! They are afraid the "Terrorist's" will go out a buy a Claymore and run amuck through the streets...Some one on your side of the pond should start protesting these losses of what used to be civil liberties... No?
105

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 22:51:52
Lobo #95- your paranoid ramblings are not welcome here.
106

The Raging Savant,

Scotland Transplanted, USA 11/06/2008 23:26:34
...And the emasculation and eradication of another noble Western culture marches on.. While you're forced to kowtow to violent fanatical immigrants and their "sensibilities".

C'mon, Scotland, GROW A COLLECTIVE SET. Just say NO to political correctness, namby-pamby judges, overbearing twit overlords, and practice CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. En masse.

An upper-story window, left open can be a WEAPON. So can a bath tub filled with water, a pillow, a pencil, garden shears, and the list goes on.

GUNS and KNIVES and SWORDS are NOT THE PROBLEM. People who are intent on doing evil bodily harm will find a way to do just that. As we say in the USA (which so many of you revile, yet so many still love), when you Outlaw guns (or knives, or swords), then only the Outlaws will have them.

Robert the Bruce and William Wallace must be rolling over in their graves. Rob Roy MacGregor must be SPINNING.

STAND UP TO THE CREEPING TYRANNY. Or emigrate.
107

scotinny,

New York 12/06/2008 00:07:35
It is extremely sad that such a ridiculous situation exists. For heaven's sake "someone-in-power" get an exclusion for highland dancers. Start writing to your MPs and if get their support or expose their stupidity for supporting this absurd law!
108

livilion,

livingston 12/06/2008 01:11:49
109 scotinny,New York
Sorry you've been had by the'Scotsman' let's make up a rediculous headline and see how many suckers write in department.

The story is in the last paragraph:
>>Last night, Helen Ford, the director of administration at the Scottish Official Board of Highland Dancing, insisted there was no restriction on the transportation of swords for dancing. "The scheme is not yet in force and we have been told we will not be affected and the dance will continue."<<
109

livilion,

livingston 12/06/2008 01:22:08
108 The Raging Savant,
Take your position to the logical end game:
Anyone who wants them should be given the freedom to carry nuclear weapons.

The USA in particular could make loads of cash by offloasding surplus nukes to the Army&Navy surplus stores.

Once everyone has weapons of mass destruction then everyone should behave better, wars would be at an end and poor countries wouldn't have to come to bigger countries begging for protection from bullies next door.
Then Highland Sword Dance judges could travel in peace.
Is that not so?
110

The Raging Savant,

The lower upper mid-highland lowlands 12/06/2008 02:03:28
Gee, livilion, you're catching on. As greater men than I have said:

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert Heinlein

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." "...He
that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
~Jesus Christ, Luke 11:21 and 22:36

A Well Regulated Militia, Being Necessary To The Security Of A Free State,
The Right Of The People To Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed.
~2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater
than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek
not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch and lick the hand that feeds you;
and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
-Samuel Adams

If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to
secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity,
it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War.
-George Washington

The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil
interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
-George Washington

"The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize
Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are
peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the
people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when
young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee

"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils
in this world are to be cured by legislation." -Thomas Reed

This goes for interpersonal as well as international interaction--and it alway
111

The Raging Savant,

The lower upper mid-highland lowlands 12/06/2008 02:05:13

This goes for interpersonal as well as international interaction--and it always has.

Any other perspective is an idealistic and monumentally naive one.

Some truths are self-evident, as these good gents made clear. Only a fool can not see, or will not see, the truth.
112

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek Australia 12/06/2008 04:11:42
MORE STUPIDITY, GET A LICENSE. NUMBER 69 "WELL SAID"
THE SWORDS AND THE DANCING ARE PART OF OUR HERITAGE AND THE LAW WAS NOT DESIGNED TO TAKE THIS AWAY.
113

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 12/06/2008 04:23:33
DO NOT LET THE "KNOW IT ALLS" DESTROY

SCOTLAND'S TRADITIONS & CULTURE. IT IS HAPPENING

IN MY COUNTRY & IT'S DISGUSTING! WHAT THE HELL DO THEY

THINK THEY ARE?
114

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 12/06/2008 04:23:38
DO NOT LET THE "KNOW IT ALLS" DESTROY

SCOTLAND'S TRADITIONS & CULTURE. IT IS HAPPENING

IN MY COUNTRY & IT'S DISGUSTING! WHAT THE HELL DO THEY

THINK THEY ARE?
115

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 12/06/2008 04:23:45
DO NOT LET THE "KNOW IT ALLS" DESTROY

SCOTLAND'S TRADITIONS & CULTURE. IT IS HAPPENING

IN MY COUNTRY & IT'S DISGUSTING! WHAT THE HELL DO THEY

THINK THEY ARE?
116

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 12/06/2008 04:23:58
DO NOT LET THE "KNOW IT ALLS" DESTROY

SCOTLAND'S TRADITIONS & CULTURE. IT IS HAPPENING

IN MY COUNTRY & IT'S DISGUSTING! WHAT THE HELL DO THEY

THINK THEY ARE?
117

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 12/06/2008 04:24:07
DO NOT LET THE "KNOW IT ALLS" DESTROY

SCOTLAND'S TRADITIONS & CULTURE. IT IS HAPPENING

IN MY COUNTRY & IT'S DISGUSTING! WHAT THE HELL DO THEY

THINK THEY ARE?
118

Rebel,

USA 12/06/2008 04:32:28
Whether it is the English outlawing bagpipes or tyrants across the Channel outlawing swords the result is the same - a loss of liberty.
119

livilion,

livingston 12/06/2008 09:32:53
112 The Raging Savant
And if the folk that attacked New York on the 11th of September had access to nukes?
btw How do you deter suicide bombers?

Presumably the USA would already have conceded to Saddam in any event? But hold on, wasn't the reason for invading Iraq that they had WMDs ready for launch within 45minutes?

North Korea, Iran, the Lebanon and Syria with their own 'deterrents' would presumably be a welcome first strike opportunty?

Carrying a weapon makes it inevitable that someone else is going to try to use one on you in the event of a confrontation.
In Scottish schools fights are fist fights and over in minutes. Columbine demonstrated what happens when anyone can get their hands on firearms.

I do not want to imagine a school where every child has their own handgun -for protection.

I would not want to imagine my society where every citizen carried weapons -for protection.

The debate in Scotland is not about the right to bear arms, but trying to stop drunken kids doped to their eyeballs chopping bits off each other with their mother's kitchen knives.

120

MacRae_Warrior,

Preparing to free my people...soon 12/06/2008 20:43:52
This is it! This is typical English disrespect for our heritage and I will tolerate it no longer! How much longer must we put up with their despotic tyranny? Livilion, perhaps you have never lived in a nation with a right to self-defense-a God-gven right might I add-and for that, I pity you. You may not like the idea of people having the ability the protect themselves in times of crisis, but please leave us law-abiding people out of your pacifistic dreams! First they took our guns, and now they are thinking of taking our swords as well? Ridiculous, but not surprising!
Hopefully the day will come when self-respecting Scots will no longer have to put up with the 'United' Kingdom, and will rule themselves alone, with no one else, not the EU, not NAFTA, NO ONE ELSE, telling them what to do or how to proceed.

This concludes my righteous rant.
121

oldgrannydonald,

inverness 12/06/2008 23:53:56
Do you just read headlines, open your mouths and start typing? Duh! Judges dont carry swords, its the organisers who do that. Grain of truth, and feathers in the wind more like
122

MacRae_Warrior,

Preparing to free my people...soon... 13/06/2008 02:34:53
"Do you just read headlines, open your mouths and start typing?"

For your information I don't, not normally anyway. I didn't have any choice in this situation as the article itself WON'T SHOW UP. So, what was I supposed to infer from the headline?
123

Galalean,

Mission 13/06/2008 06:03:47
I noticed you did not mention the great statement
from George W. re.Iraq's weapons of Mass destruction. Wonder why?
124

MacRae_Warrior,

Preparing to free my people...soon... 13/06/2008 12:40:48
WMD's are never why we went into Iraq. Neither is oil, or Al-Qaeda. That's what you're told, but that's not it. The reason we went in lies in Tehran. Don't believe me? Just look at the geography. What two countries lie on the east and west borders of the Islamic 'Republic' of Iran? Afghanistan and Iraq, repectively. Now, coincidentally, in which countries does the US currently have troops stationed, and has been building democratic governments for their people? Again, Afghanistan and Iraq. The plan called for surrounding Iran with democracies, and when the Iranian people (who are angry and disenfranchised with their government, by the way) saw the freedoms their neighbors were enjoying, they would rise up and free themselves. The greatest ally we have is the common people of Iran.
125

SNPfighter101,

13/06/2008 15:44:05
BE DAMNED IF I WILL LET SOME PROSCRIPTION THROW BACK SPERATE ME FROM MY BLADE! When I get back to skye it will be with a sword in hand and I pity the fool that trys to take it from me!

p.s. Hi matt
126

MacRae_Warrior,

Preparing to free my people...soon... 13/06/2008 20:21:47
And when I get back to Kintail it will be with an SKS in my arms and a Celtic War Sword at my back, SO HELP ME! Woe to the sassenaich who faces me the
127

MacRae_Warrior,

13/06/2008 20:22:20
then
128

SNPfighter101,

13/06/2008 22:03:43
you spelled sassenach wrong.
129

MacRae_Warrior,

13/06/2008 22:18:37
I've seen it spelled that way before many times, both online and at Highland Games, so which is right? Maybe both? dunno...
130

SNPfighter101,

15/06/2008 00:09:57
All I have to say is I will have my sword with me when I please. If a constable attempts to stop me.

" I have a sword and you have a stick, do you wish to pursue this?"
131

MacRae_Warrior,

15/06/2008 01:29:17
"On second thought, have a nice day, sir."
Wouldn't that be a hilarious late-night skit?
132

livilion,

livingston 23/06/2008 21:43:00
132 SNPfighter101
Just better hope you don't bump into the big Glasgow polis from Portree who would take that sword of yours and sheath it up your a**e.

"I am a polis with a stick and my own heavy team of handers, you are silly wee numpty with a chib, are there any medicines that you are allergic to?"
133

MacRae_Warrior,

23/06/2008 22:24:37
Would love to see him try. More than likely he'd be dead before he got the chance to lay a finger on the man's sword.
134

livilion,

livingston 24/06/2008 18:09:16
135 MacRae_Warrior
Firstly, no-one but spotty fouteen year-olds(the people targeted by this legislation) carry a naked sword on the public street in this country.
Wee neds who carry their mother's kitchen utensils generally keep them hidden in their underpants until tv documentry crews turn up to film them.

There are proper sword cases for transporting legitimate swords in public places.

Secondly, I attended a Metroplitan Police Hotels Division awards dinner where one such big polis was commended for thwarting a gunman attempting to raid a city hotel.
When the gunman threatened said big polis with a handgun, the big polis simply said 'no I don't think so' removed the firearm from his attacker and took him into police custody.
I understand from his colleagues that both had 'a full and frank exchange of views' on the way to custody and again with other officers once at the local nick.

Verbally assaulting a big polis over here is not the smartest move you'll ever make. Aggrevating that assault with a deadly weapon is not a mistake many make twice.

135

MacRae_Warrior,

25/06/2008 15:02:01
That guy with the pistol was just asking for it. However, I'd like to see a constable try to remove my weapon when I'm just minding my own business.

"No, I don't think so"
"Well, I do." *thrust*

I don't care how big the 'polis' is, he won't be able to counter a three-foot-long blade (hardly a kitchen utensil) with a puny little stick or his bare hands.
136

Russell M,

Stirling 31/08/2008 08:54:56
"You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered." -- Lyndon B. Johnson

 

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