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Swinney: Brown has 'caved in' on Holyrood powers



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Gordon Brown addresses the CBI in Glasgow
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Published Date: 05 September 2008
SCOTTISH finance secretary John Swinney today accused Gordon Brown of "caving in" to the case for more powers for the Scottish Parliament.
Rising support for the SNP and Labour's defeat in the Glasgow East by-election had forced Mr Brown to shift ground, said Mr Swinney.

The claim came after Gordon Brown's speech to the Scottish CBI in Glasgow last night in which the Prime Minister appeared to support Holyrood having greater financial powers.

Mr Brown said the Scottish Parliament was not accountable for for the size of its budget, and the budget was not linked to the success of the Scottish economy.

Mr Swinney said today this was "massive" change by Mr Brown after saying last year that there was no case for more powers for the Scottish Parliament.

"Here we are a year later, Gordon Brown has caved in to pressure from the Scottish National Party and rising support for the SNP, based on the aspirations of the people of this country," he told BBC Radio Scotland's Good Morning Scotland.

"I'm immensely encouraged that we are now going to be in a situation where we will have a Scottish Parliament – in whatever scenario that develops – that will have more financial powers.

"That will make us better able to make Scotland a more successful country."

Mr Swinney went on: "Whether it is the Prime Minister's option that
emerges or the Scottish Government's position of believing in Scottish independence that prevails, Scotland and our Parliament is going to have more financial powers and that's a great step forward."

And the finance secretary recalled: "People said that devolution would kill the SNP stone-dead – and we are now the government of Scotland.

"So I think we have to be awful careful about predicting what the impact of this will be.

"Because what the evidence shows is that when Scotland gets more powers, we simply want to do more and succeed more."

In his speech to the Scottish CBI Mr Brown launched a fierce attack on the SNP, accusing the Nationalists of a "bleak separatist obsession" and attacking their claim to be a pro-business party.

Mr Brown told the Scottish CBI: "I am not going to pre-judge the commission's work but I do want to say two things about it.

"First of all, devolution has worked, but I do see one problem – while there have been good reasons why this is so, the Scottish Parliament is wholly accountable for the budget it spends but not for the size of its budget.

"And that budget is not linked to the success of the Scottish economy.

"That is why we asked the Calman Commission to look carefully at the financial accountability of the Scottish Parliament.

"And this is a critical part of Calman's remit."

Mr Brown went on: "The second thing is more important still.

"Be under no illusion about my purpose.

"Devolution is intended to preserve the unity of the United Kingdom – and developing devolution is intended to strengthen Scotland's place within it."

The full article contains 510 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 September 2008 1:34 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party , Devolution
 
1

,

05/09/2008 13:42:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

whitecloud,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:47:25
Gordon Brown seems could not cope his power!

I would like to suggest the Scottish Parliament get more part control!
3

lulach mac gille coemgain,

05/09/2008 14:06:08
‘Devolution is intended to preserve the unity of the United Kingdom – and developing devolution is intended to strengthen Scotland's place within it.’

Did Devolving power within the former ‘Russian Empire’ work or even happen ?
Scotland would strengthen it’s position in the WORLD by governing it’s self . . .

UKRAINE, GEORGIA, ESTONIA, MOLDOVA, ARMENIA etc etc etc are proof of that - and before anyone bumps their gums aboot it - there is more to strength of a nations identity than it’s economy - think about the debt the US is in and ye’ll understand !
4

Nevsky,

Moscow 05/09/2008 14:11:33
Brown performing another u-turn..surely not?
5

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 14:18:42
#4 I think Gaelic makes you slightly delusional.

Swinny is only slightly less of a muppet than Salmon.. but not by much.

I am no Labour fan but Broon would run rings round both of them in a debate.
6

Logie Almond,

05/09/2008 14:23:28
I've always had some respect for John Swinney so it is a pity he responds to what he must regard as a welcome development in this petty pointscoring way.
7

Alan B,

05/09/2008 14:54:45
#sonofhamish

When has Brown run rings round anyone in a debate?

Browns has always been quite a poor tv performer, even back to the days when he was shadow trade and industry secretary.

Brown only ever looked semi decent when they were attacking the tories in power. But that is becuase it was all negative with little positive to say.
8

Aearnur,

Glasgow 05/09/2008 14:57:28
John Swinney has responded tactically in like manner to the way Gordon Brown announced this. Unless someone thinks Brown did it simply because he believed in it. Come on, pull the other one, it's got Gorgon's balls on it!
9

danielrober,

05/09/2008 14:59:17
Go Prime Minister Brown. Well done sir.
10

I Give Up,

Bathgate 05/09/2008 15:03:45
Shirly English skill basic level should be entr reuirement fur stuff on this sight.
11

JCA REID,

Annan 05/09/2008 15:05:28
He is floundering & floundering badly!! This is just a scam. He & Darling curtailed the budget amount for Scotland last time around to spite Salmond & the Scottish people & now this. This partly goes to explain the delay in setting a date for the Glenrothes by-election.
England don't want him & why should we take him back?
12

Jock MacSprog,

Northern Britain 05/09/2008 15:11:41
After discussing his proposals for a new local income tax, with Queen Elizabeth recently,

as a legal and more devious way to achive higher taxes than even Newest Labour had achieved,

Alec Salmon turned to the Queen and said:

"First Minister, I'm thinking of changing how my great country is referred to, and I'm thinking that it should be a Kingdom."

The Queen, who was wearing dicretely symbolic pastel red, white and blue, replied,

"I'm sorry Mr. Fish, but to be a Kingdom, you have to have a King in charge - and you're not a King."

Mr Salmon muttered 'Salmon, not just Fish' under his breath but paused to think for a while. Eventually he said:

"How about a Principality then?" To which the Queen replied,

"Again, to be a Principality you have to be a Prince - and you're not a Prince, Mr. Salmon."

Salmon turned from pink to red, thought long and hard and came up with "How about an Empire then?"
The Queen, getting a little annoyed by now, replied: "Sorry again, Mr. Salmon, but to be an Empire you must have an Emperor in charge and you are not an Emperor."

Before Salmon could utter another word, The Queen said: "I think you're doing quite nicely as a Country."



13

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 15:31:44
Swinney is a buffoon.

It should be mandatory for Scttish Finance ministers to be able to count. I reckon he has a finger missing off at least one hand.
14

Aearnur,

Glasgow 05/09/2008 15:39:42
It's my impression of John Swinney that he's a very shrewd character indeed. Being brought back into a prominent position now seems to emphasise this. He wasn't the right man for the top job but he seems an eminently good match for this one and MORE than a match for Gorgon Brown on this showing.
15

Aearnur,

Glasgow 05/09/2008 15:42:01
Jock MacSprog. Cracking joke that. I'm visiting a pal in the Beetson tonight. It's sure to cheer him up!
16

Embra Don,

05/09/2008 15:58:32
#18 Jock MacSprog

#19 bring them on

#21 gorgeousgorgieboy

I used to write stuff like that before I grew up too.
Queen's 11?? is this about team uk football in 2012? Pub football from the pink triangle?

What happened to fiscal autonomy?
17

AJ Fife,

05/09/2008 16:38:09
You get the feeling Brown is like a drunk jakey, scrambling aboot in the gutter, looking for salvation in a Buckfast bottle!

Desperate times for a desperate man indeed......
18

Ken W,

Fife 05/09/2008 16:43:00
MacSprog:

Apart fae the fact that ye dinnae need a king to be a kingdom (at the minit we hae a Queen...), Scotland will still be a 'kingdom' when independent again.

If we dinnae want that we can aye vote Republican -which might save us a' fae the like o' you and yer dire attempts at humour.
19

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 05/09/2008 16:54:18
"Caving in" John? Would that be similar to St Alex of the Renewables caving in to Trump, at the leader's 'constituency meeting'?

Rules and policies are only meaningful to those who follow them!
20

European Scot,

05/09/2008 17:03:47
27 sm753

" Catalonia, Bavaria, Quebec, most of the States of India, the cantons of Switzerland are all examples of smaller entities seeing the advantages of combining in larger unions "

Sheer brilliance !
None of them countries.
Wise up !
21

Senga Jean,

05/09/2008 17:21:09
I think it is wonderful how Scotland is regaining its self confidence with the SNP Government. It will also be gaining its Independence very soon. I cannot wait. A new dawn where we will not enter crazy wars or have grand delusional weapons of mass destruction like Trident. Instead we can join the peaceful nations of the world and support peaceful ways of solving the world's problems. The wealth from Scotland's oil could have been used so much better under our own control!
22

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 05/09/2008 17:21:21
More U-turns than a plumbers convention in a Slinky factory.

What a totally useless attempt at being PM from Bean.

Did anyone else see energy companies posting massive dividend increases today as well ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7599503.stm

The "big six" energy suppliers increased their shareholder dividend payouts by 19% last year, according to new research.

Bean Listening to what people want ??????

23

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 05/09/2008 17:21:30

quote....."and that budget is not linked to the success of the Scottish economy"

It is a big assumption that tax could be raised in line with the success of the Scottish economy. The raising of income tax should not present too great a problem but there are considerable hurdles to be crossed in collecting a fair share of corporation tax from the many English and overseas companies with operations in Scotland. I have a feeling that Gordon Brown could be trying to pull a "fast one" on Scotland by this supposed U-turn on his part.















24

Brian the Barbarian.,

leith 05/09/2008 17:31:11

Swinney is a light weight loser who does not have a clue.

I voted for the SNP and what have we got so far.? let's raise taxes so we can hand over £400,000.00 to a Glasgow Muslim study group.

Yea right enough I
remember that in the manifesto.
Should i stand in a separate supermarket line for to by a bottle of wine now or later?
I wrote to swinney regarding a parcel of fiscal matters. the response i got was mind numbing.
Any hootsman journalist who wants to know more, then get in touch.
25

subrosa,

05/09/2008 17:32:01
# 22

There are no flies on John Swinney. He's a very capable, articulate and expert financier. But that was his 'proper' job before he entered politics.

Gordon Brown is just hot air. This will never come to pass but he had to say something to pacify the many of the CBI who want Scotland to be more of a country.
26

Guga II,

Rockall 05/09/2008 18:20:47
This is just Maggie Broon, in desperation, trying to buy the Fifers votes at the Glenrothes by-election. It is, of course, utter bulldust, as he has no intention of giving up control of Scotland's finances. Doing that would allow people to see just how much Scotland was subsidising the English.
27

Ewan M,

05/09/2008 18:40:11
#32 So exactly what would happen to Scotland if we became independent regarding corporation tax. Its as smart move by Westminster because currenlty we have the situation where Salmond has accountability for all the good stuff and when he can't do something to make him more popular he blames the rest of the horrible UK for not giving us enough money.

It so obvious to see through but some hard nose Nationalist refuse to accept it. The are not doing the best by Scotland just whats best for the SNP. Very sad really.
28

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Burgh. 05/09/2008 18:56:22
18. Jock, dont give up your day job.
29

Jock MacSprog,

05/09/2008 18:58:26
24 and 26, lighten up, its a joke. Oh and 26, learn to speak a real language be it either English or Gaelic. That pretendy dialect "Scots" is just phonetically mispronounced English and makes you sound ignorant.
30

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Burgh 05/09/2008 19:01:17
32, Foresight, i tend to agree with you.
31

Richardinho,

05/09/2008 19:01:22
#36 Ewan,you so typify the unionist mindset. I've always said that unionists, particularly of the labour variety, don't really understand Scottish Nationalism. The labour party regard the SNP as simply a rival party, one which threatens their 'territory' and mistakenly treats as such.

The SNP did not spend years getting into power just to mess up when they finally did. The SNP have a sense of purpose, a core aim, and they will use whatever tools they manage to create or which are placed into their hands to help them achieve this.

You say that the SNP are only interested in what's best for them, but what you fail to realise is that even if that were true, the SNP can only improve their own prospects by improving those of the country as a whole.
Believe me, the SNP are very conscious indeed of the importance of making a success of governance.
32

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Toun 05/09/2008 19:08:32
40 Richardinho, well said in reply to Ewan.
33

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Burgh 05/09/2008 19:10:57
Has anyone heard from AM2 recently, ? im missing him.
34

Red Etin,

05/09/2008 19:51:11
#27 sm753,05/09/2008 16:46:16

"smaller entities seeing the advantages of combining in larger unions"

Ay right. Unionist interest wanes when it comes to the advantages of UK being part of the EU.
35

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 05/09/2008 19:56:54
Broon is beginning to advocate independence light - or lite, of you prefer the American spelling.

I just wonder how much of this has been forced on him by the EU? Suppose we'll have to wait 20 years to find that out.

Does bring them on have to persist in making a mammary of himself when he is not jamming up football threads as the asidekick to the pundit?
36

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 05/09/2008 19:59:03
Smee@27 has obviously never heard of Freistaat Bayern.
37

Brian Hill,

05/09/2008 20:35:18
Brown has it right re further powers for Holyrood, but what is he doing by denying poor families and pensioners extra money for winter fuel?

AND no windfall tax? With Glenrothes a couple of months away at most? It's the 10p tax fiasco all over again.

Is Gordon a closet Nat?
38

AM2,

Scotland,UK 05/09/2008 20:46:01
From the article: "Rising support for the SNP and Labour's defeat in the Glasgow East by-election had forced Mr Brown to shift ground, said Mr Swinney."

Nonsense! SNP support is no longer rising and Gordon Brown has been saying the same kinds of things since at least as far back as February.

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7249002.stm
39

AM2,

Scotland,UK 05/09/2008 20:50:46
#40 Richardinho

I appreciate your reasoning, but it doesn't explain why the SNP is making such a mess of governance. Haven't you noticed the broken promises on student loans, farming entrants scheme, police numbers, P3 class sizes, first-time homebuyers' grant, etc?
40

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 05/09/2008 20:55:33
47, AMtwa. As you wish, as you wish.

@48. It is a bit unlike you to be so unspecific as to use "etc".

But, as you wish, as you wish.
41

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 05/09/2008 21:07:52
Must be a junior AMtwa on tonight.
42

puskas,

East kilbride 05/09/2008 21:09:40
Brown will do Scotland no favours.

A rat is at work.

Independence is the only route for Scotland.

43

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Toun 05/09/2008 21:15:11
AM2 @ 47 I dont recall Gordon Brown mention more powers to the Scotish Parliament before last night, let alone as far back as february.
44

puskas,

East kilbride 05/09/2008 21:17:00
The support is solid for the SNP.

Further increases will follow as Holyrood has been recharged since the summer break..

The 3 stooges on Newsnight ( Thursday evening ) showed such incompetance on the simple questions asked.
Gullible and made Wendy seem intelligent.
45

Finnzz,

05/09/2008 21:34:06
52 Davie

This is a completely new tack from Brown and it has taken his supporters by suprise.
He appears to have quietly resigned himself to losing not only at Glenrothes due to the SNP recent gains, which now appears to be still increasing, but also losing the next general election.
I suspect he is now going to royally f*** things up for Camerons dream of a United kimgdon to lord over. And deny him those billions of oil revenue to waste on foreign wars.
46

notanactivist,

The Borders 05/09/2008 21:39:25
#48 Hear hear, I'm still waiting for my debts to be wiped out.

The Nats will inevitably claim they don't have the majority to get this through parliament so I have a suggestion - given that Labour is in such a mess do a deal with the Tories and Lib Dems to get the 2/3 vote needed to call a fresh election. If the Nats are as popular as all the posters believe they will romp home and can enact that pledge.
47

Team Scotland,

FC UK No! 05/09/2008 21:52:16
18 Jock MacSprog,

Stolen from Kenny Everett. (He used Thatcher)
48

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 05/09/2008 22:57:24
Smee, yes, yes, Bismarck's second Reich and all that. But Freistaat Bayern? Are you really aware of it? Bavaria was dragged, kicking and screaming into Germany and still has an independence movement.

Besides the German Superstate was not called Great Prussia with a language called Prussian and a Bank of Prussia as its central bank.

Smee, you don't half talk unionist propaganda with a coathanger in your jacket.
49

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire 05/09/2008 23:02:48
54 Finnzz, interesting post.
50

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 05/09/2008 23:04:21
By the way, Smee@57, welcome to the Forth Reich, aka the EU.

51

AM2,

Scotland,UK 06/09/2008 06:56:36
#2 Davie
#54 Finnz

In February, Gordon Brown said: “There is an issue about the financial responsibility of an executive or an administration that has £30bn to spend but doesn't have any responsibility for raising [that]. In any other devolved administration in the world, there is usually a financial responsibility that requires not only the spending of money by the administration but also its responsibility to take seriously how it raises money.”

What's more, Nicola Sturgeon replied at the time: “A year ago Gordon Brown was implacably opposed to the idea of any more powers for the Scottish Parliament. So I suppose it is another tribute to the progress that Scotland is making with an SNP government that Gordon Brown now agrees with the vast majority of people in Scotland that there should be more powers.”

There's absolutely nothing new in what the PM said. Swinney is just posturing.
52

Number 6,

Germany 16/09/2008 14:16:08
Swinney is right to point out yet another Liebout capitulation. I said from day one that after the SNP took control, Liebour would be left intheir slipstream.

Unable to act only able to react, that is exactly what's happened. Expect more desperate attempts by Liebour to try and fool the majority of Scots, that we would be better off back under their "Control".

It's laughable, yet sad and pathetic at the same time,
although not nearly as sad as those unionistas who will keep voting for them.

 

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