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Surly, grungy, unshaven, with a volley of swear words – and he's No1 role model

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Published Date: 10 September 2008
HE'S SURLY, unshaven and has been known to shower the tennis court with four-letter expletives.
But Andy Murray's emergence on the world tennis stage has earned him a multi-million-pound future as well as a legion of young fans who see him as a genuine hero.

Even his defeat at the hands of Roger Federer in the final of the US Open has done nothing to turn off a generation of budding players who are keen to follow in his footsteps.

Tennis in Scotland appears to be undergoing something of a revival with 32,000 club members and week-long tennis camps attracting between 800 and 900 youngsters.

David Marshall, chief executive of Tennis Scotland, is in no doubt that the "Murray factor" is responsible for the resurgence and the British No1 is a great role model for youngsters.

He says: "We're getting junior players saying that if Andy Murray from Dunblane can do it, so can we. Andy's temperament has improved a lot. The kids love him because of the way he dresses, that grungy look, the iPod, they love all that."

And Mr Marshall is quick to point out that obvious role models like Bjorn Borg took years to get to grips with their temper, and in the early days the Swedish superstar also had a reputation for temper tantrums.

"A lot of these guys have slick PR now, but if you look at Borg and Federer, they developed and matured. Borg ended up the ice-cool man but he didn't start out like that," he adds.

According to one former player, Murray has undergone a transformation in the eyes of the public.

He has refrained from losing his temper in recent months and has stopped cursing to the heavens after every bad shot or dodgy bounce.

Even his infamous comment during the World Cup that he wanted "anyone but England" to win appears to have been forgotten by the London-based media.

Colin Baxter, a former Scots champion who played at Wimbledon in the 1950s, has no problem with Murray's behaviour on or off the court.

He says: "Murray was petulant and temperamental, a bit coarse, but he has turned that around in the last year and has almost matured overnight.

"If you're going to get a champion, you need to be gutsy and determined."

Mr Baxter, 77, believes Britain has produced a new generation of players who are spoiled and pampered but Murray bucks the trend.

He adds: "He is a normal, highly competitive young player. With Murray, he will not go down without a fight. That's the mentality you want."

Sue Palmer, a child development expert, has no objection to Murray being a role model but wishes he would "cheer up a bit".

She says: "His behaviour is quite childish and it's petulant. It's lovely to see the lad winning … but you don't get the impression that playing is particularly joyous when he's on court."

Scots hero could be first of many

SCOTLAND'S tennis coaches have seen a 5 per cent rise in core membership in recent years, with a talented crop of young players coming through the ranks.

Following in the wake of Andy Murray and Elena Baltacha, they believe the future is bright with the emergence of another generation of gifted players – many of them who have yet to reach their teens.

Ellinore Lightbody, Scottish national coach, describes Andy Murray's talent as "one in a million" but believes young hopefuls like Joanna Henderson, 14, and Jonny O'Mara,13, can go all the way.

She said: "One of the major problems is the weather.

"There are indoor courts in the major cities but some players are driving for more than an hour to get there.

"We have got a lot of very good players coming through from Scotland from a relatively small player base, but we have a high percentage of high achievers. We're punching well above our weight."

Dunfermline Tennis Club is an example where demand has become so great junior membership is full. They currently have 299 adults and juniors, compared to 271 last year. Club secretary, Pat Reid, said: "The numbers have been going up steadily since Andy Murray has gone up the rankings.

"The biggest jump has been in the number of junior members. It's great, we're finding a lot of families are joining and the adults want coaching for themselves and their kids."




Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 September 2008 10:04 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

,

10/09/2008 00:13:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
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2

S'me,

Edinburgh 10/09/2008 01:31:50
Scotch??
3

Kipling,

10/09/2008 02:24:49
whiskyd
4

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 10/09/2008 02:25:09
Scotch is linguistically correct!
5

weeshooie1,

Wollongong 10/09/2008 02:27:34
Still there.

fanling, you are legend :0)
6

Kipling,

10/09/2008 02:29:13
So long as he can get the kids off drink:
racket =/= whiskeybottle
------xxx----------x
-----x__x---------x
------xxx----------x
-------x----------xxx
-------x---------x__x
-------x----------xxx
7

Dileas,

10/09/2008 02:33:52
Sorry Mercutio - produce is Scotch, people are Scots.

Or Scottish, if you can't decipher the distinction.
8

Jim Baxter RIP,

Sai Kung, Hong Kong 10/09/2008 02:44:33
#1
No need for the foul langauge. You can be a proud Scot without reverting to th Cantonese vernacular.
9

Galalean,

Mission 10/09/2008 04:49:27
Cogratulations tae Andy, but he is a typical Scot, he sulks when it's nae gaen is way. being a star does not make you a good example. how come Andy has an English accent?
10

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 10/09/2008 04:52:10
What a miserable article, Tanya!
Better Andy Murray as a role model than Pete Doherty, Britney or Paris Hilton!
11

arthurscross,

10/09/2008 05:02:22
#11 Well said!
12

,

10/09/2008 05:08:24
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13

Bruce's spider,

10/09/2008 05:45:59
Seems like pretty much every issue has one of these space filling non stories. It isn't the 'paper it used to be.
14

Blether2,

10/09/2008 07:05:53
Sue Palmer, you cannot be *serious*.
15

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 10/09/2008 07:15:20
#14. It is called 'heading for the lowest common denominator'.
Andy Murray's flaws. Great tennis player but 'ye canna mak a silk purse oot o a soo's lug' in Scots.
16

Brian R Stanier,

Stourbridge 10/09/2008 07:36:32
He would do better if first he improved his appearance and look cleaner a good shave comes to mind and cut out the raving and get on a be the champion
17

Brian R Stanier,

Stourbridge 10/09/2008 07:37:29
We all wish him great success
18

Kate,

Zurich 10/09/2008 07:38:53
#Dileas, Mercutio is quite correct, until only very recently, the Scottish people were also referred to as Scotch, not only the whisky, eggs, mist and so on. Scots as a term for our nationality is less than 100 years old.

However, this is not about terminology, it's about the fact that Andy Murray is all the things described in the article - sullen, foul mouthed, unshaven...and an absolutely brilliant tennis player!
19

Royster,

10/09/2008 07:40:14
Nice to see Andy Murray as the courage to be himself and stick up two fingers to the world. I wonder if he is going to launch a clothing range and Federer?
20

C. Mantic,

Edinburgh 10/09/2008 07:58:41
I'm often surly, regularly unshaven, and have been known to swear. Where's my money??
21

Nell,

Far from the Struan 10/09/2008 08:03:47
Just a typical Hobo!
22

Mike Masterton,

10/09/2008 08:06:11
#10 I wondered that as well. The thing is Andy isn't as good looking as his brother Jamie, and the awfull beard doesn't help, but apart from that what about Billy Connolly & Gordon Ramsay they have made a living out of swearing, not that I condone it of course, but we all do it, don't we !
23

Watson,

Irvine 10/09/2008 08:11:49
Just another loud, foul mouthed Prima Dona. Pity he wasn't taught manners by his "wonderful" mother.
24

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 10/09/2008 08:17:27
#10 & #24

Andy doesn't have an English accent. He has a Perthshire accent.
25

1745,

Edinburgh 10/09/2008 08:22:53
Some pretty petty remarks here.
Andy Murray is a bright competative young man bringing glory to himself and Scotland !why dont you lot look in the mirror of a morning.
26

Gusto,

10/09/2008 08:25:03
19. Bunkum Kate, its a bastardisation, only because foreigners cant pronounce it correctly that is has been spelt the way it is (wrongly) said. Can you tell whether a foreigner is saying scotch or scottish? Even the Scots dont pronounce the "tt". There is only one correct way to say it, whether it is whiskey or a person - Scottish. The rest are tradenames.
Pity the scots dont speak their own language, we wouldnt be discussing the english language in Scotland.
27

thinking,

Scotland 10/09/2008 08:34:02
#24 'Billy Connolly & Gordon Ramsay they have made a living out of swearing, not that I condone it of course, but we all do it, don't we !'
No. We don't all do it. Very many people do not swear. Swearing is ugly, degrading and shows a poor command of language.
Just because so called 'celebrities' do and it is allowed (encouraged even) on the 'box', doesn't mean it is good to do it.
28

,

10/09/2008 08:39:36
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29

jdships,

10/09/2008 08:44:37
11 Tatties ower the side,

Agree with you totally !!
On Monday morning on BBC News 24 the famale newsreader criticised AM for wearing a "boring" top
Her male colleague rounded on her and pointed out ".......here is the finest tennis talent produced in these Isles for decades and you criticise his dress sense .... unbelievable "
Says it all !!

Tanya Thompson
Who ?
Poor article ipitomised by this quote
"...has been known to shower... "

A bit of research would have told her that in every succesful sportsperson there has to be a certain level of self belief which by poor journo's like her is always set up as arrogance

Why not just give the man credit for the work he and his backroom team have put in to give this country some tennis success .
30

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 10/09/2008 08:49:01
Nobody seems to have noticed that this surly, grumpy young man took his defeat by Roger Federer with absolute sporting grace and heaped compliments upon the head of Federer while conceding that he himself had to work even harder to attain that standard. That for me is the mark of a great sportsman. Forget the rest of it, that's called growing up.
31

scottish person,

paisley 10/09/2008 08:49:57
Rules but not rulers: Why are you always so negative about anything Scottish.
Andy Murray has given me, and a lot of Scots a reason to watch tennis again, instead of the inane drivel we get from past never were champions like Sue Barking mad and the Lloyd duo. Get a grip and get behind him, or move south which would probably suit your kind.
32

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 10/09/2008 09:07:44
Mr. Murray sounds just like all my sons and their mates!

All these dinosaurs will be telling us next that when ever Gordon Brown swears he says damn, blast or fiddlesticks?
33

Helen,

10/09/2008 09:13:38
This so-called role model referred to women as 'chicks' in a newspaper interview. No amount of tennis can ever take away the male chauvinism.
He's also fiercely anti-english. Let him rot in his Paraguay top....I'll never be joining his fan club.
34

Shaken,

10/09/2008 09:15:45
#29

Actually it's only in this country that swearing is considered to show a lack of vocabulary; many conutries (Spain in particular) consider a flowery swearing vocab to indicate an expressive personality.

35

Shaken,

10/09/2008 09:16:43
#37

English chicks like you wouldn't be allowed in his fan club!
36

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 10/09/2008 09:19:35
Reasons to hate him - scruffy , surly , anti-English , a Hobo fan ............
Come on Iceland !!!
37

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 10/09/2008 09:21:48
Don't change a thing Andy...McEnroe didn't do too badly did he?
38

veryoldbluefan,

Borehamwood 10/09/2008 09:23:43
Joppa Jock and Bogman, you both got it correct.

Everyone else, let Andy be Andy. He is improving on a match by match basis - not only in his mastery of the tennis court, but also on his on-court attitude. His swearing has diminished out of all proportions. Rarely now does he attack everyone includin himself verbally when he misses a shot that he personally would have expected to make.

I believe in the words of past champions when they expect Andy to soon join then as a successful winner of one of the four majors.

I believe that Andy's sartorial dress and facial sense have all to do with superstitions and luck. If he is on a winning run, do not change anything personal. Just remember Bjorn Borg and John McEnroe.
39

Shaken,

10/09/2008 09:26:03
#40, 41
Just like an Englishman - repetitive predicatable and boring. Andora gave you a good game eh?
40

AJ Fife,

10/09/2008 09:30:48
Scotland's No1 is fine the way he is. In fact, I'd rather he stepped up the two fingered salutes to all the prudes and pansies on these threads!

Scotland has a world class tennis star and the idiots still moan!!
41

veryoldbluefan,

Borehamwood 10/09/2008 09:34:42
Helen, no37. You are away with the fairies.

Andy does NOT hate the English nor is he anti-English. It all arose out of a wind-up interview in 2006 just before the football world cup. The interviewer jokingly knowing that Scotland were out asked Andy whom he would be supporting now. Andy in the same spirit answered any team that England were playing. Incidentally, good old "tiger" Henham was also part of the wind-up and was having a laugh at Andy's expense.

Let's put this anti-English nonsense to bed once and for all.

42

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 09:42:49
First why does every sportsman and celebrity have to be a role model? This is the default mode for the media nowadays. Parents should be the role model and bring up their own kids properly. Its not Andy Murray's responsibilty to worry about the nation's children.

Second he's a going to be a great tennis player and he's already respected by his peer group: Federer, Nadal and Djkovic. Watch him on court and marvel at some of those shots he puts in!

Third he's growing up in the public eye and its not easy especially with our relentess 'sleb culture' manufactured by the rags. Leave him alone and let him do what he does best - play some blinding tennis!

Fourth - I'm English and I don't care what Andy said about some football match he's a tennis player and he's the best thing to come out of these islands for a very long time. Enjoy!
43

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 09:47:11
Relentess should be relentless. Sorry typing in haste as I'm getting a bit fed up with the 'is he too scruffy for us' debate.

Go on Andy - Aussie Open!! :D
44

,

10/09/2008 09:49:37
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45

AJ Fife,

10/09/2008 09:51:24
As per usual, Joanna hits the nail on the head and sums up the reality perfectly.
46

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 09:53:27
Thanks Vincent-W :)

Any Slam title would be great but if he wins Wimbledon the media and the public will be at his feet. Arise Sir Andrew Murray ! :D
47

bordersbairn,

Galashiels 10/09/2008 09:59:10
Thin news day? Of all the stories about Andy Murray that Tanya could have picked she targets how he looks, his language under pressure, and dredges up old interview comments made by a media-naive teenager. Hmmm, whose career choice should we be questioning here? Don't think this story will be in the portfolio for your grandchildren Tanya.
48

Ayegudyin,

10/09/2008 10:09:27
#47 + 48

thanks, you saved me the hassle. I often think that if i was in the public eye, i would still try and be myself and not give a t0ss about the media, but then im sure AM has someone at his shoulder the whole time telling him he could make a few quid and a few more fans if he does this or says that...

as long as it stops the kids watching MTV for a few hours. my girlfriends little sister actually believes that everyone in america lives in malibu and gets ferrari's for their brithdays.
49

AJ Fife,

10/09/2008 10:14:47
Does anyone know what Tanya Thompson looks like? Does she have a mooth like an Irish navvy? Does she have one of those 'female' moustaches? Does she buy all her clobber in the finest boutiques or is she a Primark wifie?

These questions are directed at other Scotsman and Herald journalists. Here is a rare chance to put the 'boot in' to a fellow reporter! So, nae holds barred..........
50

P Rayner.,

essex 10/09/2008 10:38:26
Tim Henman was too nice, Andy Murray is too ugly! Can't win. But I hope Andy Murray, post Henman, does win, keeps on winning, crushes all at Wimbledon and helps interest and development of British players that follow. Too ugly indeed!
51

The Scotchman,

10/09/2008 10:46:18
More nonsense TBH. Wasn't he unshaven due to progressing in the tournament? His choice... only gets people talking. It wasn't long ago that Beckham had a beard like some muslim cleric. And his temperament is much different to the past.

In retrospect we have the like of the walking corpses Amy Winehouse, Pete Docherty, etc as apparent role models, whilst there's a continual gaggle of irrelevant women with no talent and man-made breasts stumbling drunk out of clubs with various men.
52

subrosa,

10/09/2008 10:47:29
'HE'S SURLY, unshaven and has been known to shower the tennis court with four-letter expletives.'

We don't 'do' surly in Scotland. Our adjective is dour and if the lad is dour then that's fine with me.

This is just an article to be negative about Andy Murray. The man dresses on court to suit himself and not to suit fashion commentators. Maybe he has reasons as to why he doesn't shave before a match. One of the males in my family suffers a severe rash after shaving and it's painful for hours.

I doubt if such criticism of his appearance and attitude will worry Andy Murray in the least. He's focused on what he's doing and where he's going and he'll do it his way. His behaviour at the interview after the final was faultless and his praise for Federer similar.

During the past week I didn't see any tennis player smiling during a match but I didn't expect grins all round.
53

Tris,

10/09/2008 10:55:34

Who is Tanya Thomson? Does she shave every day? Does she swear? Does she smile? Is she a role model? Does anyone care?

Andy almost undoubtedly doesn't drink, do drugs or smoke, and he's just earned a million dollars (or £10 as he put it)on the basis of talent and hard work. So it seems to me he's one of the best role models teenagers could have. What on earth has shaving got to do with it? And why would he smile with all the idiot press in his face? He's got the talent, he doesn't have to be tolerant of that lot.
54

Saltire,

Thailand 10/09/2008 11:35:35
I really cannot understand this desperate need for England to have Scottish supporters. In their eyes if you do not support England then you are anti-English and a bigot.
What then about Steve McMahon (ex England International) who, in an interview on Star Sports in Asia, said that no Englishman could ever support Germany in the European championships during England's absence.
Hypocrisy seems to rule here
55

faddy,

iceland 10/09/2008 11:38:56
Everybody swears. Roger the dodger too.Not nice but it happens. Rogers interview before the match made me swear too. He's pretty big headed . And andy's gear is cool.Give the boy a break and hope he wins a big one against Mr clean.
56

faddy,

iceland 10/09/2008 11:42:00
By the way Joanna is pretty cool too.
57

EnglishHighlander,

10/09/2008 11:48:25
Put the claws away, Ms. Thomson!

Who cares what he wears on court, shaves, or not and likes to use a few coarse expressions now and again?

What we don't need is another "nearly was" who doesn't have the aggression needed to reach the top - no disrespect to Henman, but, his lack of fire really held him back when he needed that little bit extra.

I can't wait 'till he knocks that smug grin of Federer's face!
58

AJ Fife,

10/09/2008 11:50:45
Faddy,

Roger may or may not be "bigheaded", but I bet he's dead jealous of Andy! When the Swiss star looks up into the player's box during a match against Scotland's No1, he sees Andy's incredibly gorgeous girlfriend and then he sees his own missus shoving yet another doughnut doon her thrapple!!:)

You can't have everything in life I suppose........
59

faddy,

iceland 10/09/2008 11:56:17
AJ.And i lost to her dad in a tight 3 setter.:)Unfotunately before she was born.Must score tonight.
60

I.Wright,

Glasgow 10/09/2008 12:13:56
"This so-called role model referred to women as 'chicks' in a newspaper interview. No amount of tennis can ever take away the male chauvinism.
He's also fiercely anti-english. Let him rot in his Paraguay top....I'll never be joining his fan club"

- says 'Helen'.

Don't believe the 'chicks' remark. A journalist made it up. The 'Anyone but England' remark was part of a jokey chat between Henman, journalist Des Kelly and Murray, where the other two were winding Andy up about Scotland's failure to qualify for the world cup. They were all having a laugh, but Tony Parsons of The Mirror heard about it and reported it as 'anti-England' and the desperately insecure English football fans have never forgotten it. The Paraguay T-shirt story was total fiction, as Henman himself confirmed the other day. Murray is not the slightest bit anti-English.

But I just love it that some people (not all English) can't stand Andy's demeanor and dress sense. He's just a typical Scottish lad (well, in that respect anyway), a bit shy - not very good at bigging himself up and being charming with the media. A good, honest, stubborn Scot who wants to succeed. Brilliant. Lots of tennis players utter the odd swear word on court, but mostly it's in languages like Spanish, Swedish or Serbo-Croat that reporters and polite middle class tennis fans don't understand. Most tennis players don't smile on court - certainly not Nadal or Federer - because they have to concentrate so hard to play one of the most demanding individual games there is. Marcos Baghdatis, very talented, does smile and joke on court and people love him, but he's never won anything and is now dropping down the rankings. His sunny disposition is his downfall.

It's absolutely astonishing that Scotland, never mind Britain, has managed to produce an amazing tennis talent like Murray. He really is one of the best sportsmen ever to come out of Scotland and he has a lot further to go. British tennis would be nowhere without
61

ken cameron,

mossley,ontario, canada 10/09/2008 12:27:14


ANDY MURRAY IS JUST FINE ,ALL HE NEEDS IS SELF
DISCIPLINE AND LOTS OF IT
62

Kate,

Zurich 10/09/2008 12:57:08
Vincent-W, thanks for the support and Gusto, go check your literature for what Vincent has written, and as Dileas has written. Scotch is perfectly correct, if a little old fashioned.

And anyway, this is about Andy Murray and I'm sure he doesn't give a fiddle!
63

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/09/2008 13:03:21
I thought they were talking about Gordon Ramsey at first. I wouldn't recognise this Andy Murray character if he strolled up to the bar and bought me a pint. Much less is he any kind of role model for me.
64

Ffion,

nowhere at all 10/09/2008 13:04:31
how about this for youngsters behaving badly:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/scotland/Teenager-hit-passerby-in-groin.4467992.jp

Must've been one of those baking tatties to need paramedics

65

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 10/09/2008 13:08:48
#30:

English has one 'l'; Spanish has one 'n'; Amish has one 'm'. Why then does Scottish have two 't's?
66

Brian Hill,

10/09/2008 13:21:13
#11 tatties....:What a miserable article, Tanya!
Better Andy Murray as a role model than Pete Doherty, Britney or Paris Hilton!

Couldn't have put it better myself Mr Tatties. Scotland has produced the best tennis player Britain has seen since Fred Perry and Tanya's worried that he doesn't shave and curses through his pent up emotions.

This bourgeois mentality has been strangling the UK, USA and Australia for decades.

Relax Tanya, enjoy the man's tennis skills and let time polish his social skills naturally.
67

Nevsky,

Moscow 10/09/2008 13:24:36
Didn't seem to hold John McEnroe back.
68

Iain's,

Barcelona 10/09/2008 13:24:38
Being nice did not do Henman any good.

First you win matches, then you have time to be nice.

The press treat the lad like **** (add your own word. They even suggested Rafa played badly...are they suggesting Rafa threw the match? Well?

The press did not like McEnroe and he is said to be the 5th best player of all time!

We should support the lad. He is 'Scotch' after all.

69

thinking,

Scotland 10/09/2008 13:33:32
#38
I don't really see what Spain, or any other country for that matter, has anything to do with it. Or are you Spanish?
70

Hugh Jars,

Pots 'n' Pans 10/09/2008 13:46:23
Kate, the use of the term "Scotch" is an English language contraction of "Scottish"; it came into widespread use in Scotland in the 18th century when anglicization was popular within Scotland. Prior to that "Scots" was the term used.

The term "Scots" or "Scottish" began to see widespread usage again from the early 19th century.

As much as I am loath to do so, here is an extract from Wikipedia:
"Scotch is an obsolescent adjective meaning "of Scotland". The modern usage in Scotland is Scottish or Scots, where the word "Scotch" is only applied to specific products, usually food or drink, such as scotch whisky, scotch pie, scotch broth or scotch eggs, and "Scotch" if applied to people is widely considered mildly pejorative."
71

Kate,

Zurich 10/09/2008 14:13:09
#Hugh Jars, I know and I don't particularly like being called Scotch but the term is a fact...rarely used nowadays, thank goodness.
72

Tom Cambeul,,

North 10/09/2008 14:20:44
Foul-mouthed, I thought you were referring to John McEnroe. What of the garbage-mouthed cook, Ramsey, that the BBC-America seems to love.
73

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 10/09/2008 14:22:05
I was taught that the adjectives Scots, Scottish and Scotch were used in relation to the noun they described.
Scots - for use with living beings, people, etc
Scottish - for geographical, national, and abstract subjects.
Scotch - for inanimate objects.

Thus , Scots language, Scottish scenery, Scotch beef.
74

,

10/09/2008 15:12:18
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75

pwd,

Borders 10/09/2008 15:28:27
"Much can be done with a Scotchman if he is found young." Dr Johnson.
76

guenevere,

10/09/2008 15:40:13
His mother must be so proud,F words everywhere,can't even be bothered to spend 5 min getting the hair off his face! Britains No 1, says what a state this country is in.
77

Canada,

Canada 10/09/2008 15:44:18
The tern Scotch was used frequently by Burns, Scott and Stevenson. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for me. My father's school leaving certificate, an official document, bears the words "According to the Scotch Code." That was in 1915. Guess after the First War it fell out of favour.
78

,

10/09/2008 15:46:42
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79

guenevere,

10/09/2008 15:51:30
84. Because "master chefs" are in the privacy of their own kitchens,not on a tennis court with thousands of spectators in hear shot!
80

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 15:51:41
Andy is in good company anyway. The great Fred Perry, himself, was a working class lad and was patronised and condescended to by the 'Wimbledon set' of his day.

In Perry's own words: "So this infernal Perry, a chap of quite the wrong calibre, had become the first Briton since Laurie Doherty in 1903 to win the Championship three times running."

Andy wears Fred Perry clothes and just like Fred is in his own class, which is world class.

81

AJ Fife,

10/09/2008 16:04:46
Fantastic post Joanna! Easily the best today, even better than your first, which is saying something.......
82

voltaire's janny,

10/09/2008 16:13:05
Huntly Loon has the recht o' this. Scotch as used by the Bard was self-mocking or ironic or correct as per the loon.

Dr Johnson on the other hand was being patronising in a way that we would maybe recognise today as 'racist' though of course there are no consistent definitions of race.
83

guenevere,

10/09/2008 16:16:25
86. Totally agree,but we are all "working class" but we don't all F and blind our way through the day,and would it kill him to put a razor to his face and try and look presentable.
84

voltaire's janny,

10/09/2008 16:17:02
Johnson's comments would be in the same category of offensive remark as if I were to append, "..but not as much as is done by an Englishman to his own kind's rear at all good schools if found younger still"
85

European Scot,

10/09/2008 16:30:42
86 Joanna

Nice sentiments.
Watched the final, on a French channel, and there was an interesting change in the French commentary. This time the commentators referred mainly to the 'Ecossais', whereas in the semi-final, they had referred to the 'Brittanique'.
As for Andy's appearance, the hard reality of commercial interests, and even more sponsorship money, is going to come in to play soon enough.
Andy Murray is at a certain age, his level of maturity, and appearance are probably typical of a twenty one year old, so it's early days.
As he matures further, his personal tastes will change, and that will be influenced by the pressures of big bucks sponsors wanting an image that promotes their product.
As things stand, Gillette might have a before and after interest !
There will be further tweaks to his technique, better control of his temperament, and even more focus on his game.
This isn't about looking ' pretty', or being polite, it's much more to do with having a professional, business like attitude and approach to the game.
It's harnessing those levels of aggression, and killer instinct, which unlike Henman, he's got, and that's what is needed to win.
Two years down the line he will look a different person, but he will also be even more successful.
He's a great player, has a fantastic future, and he did Scotland proud at the US Open.
What a pity that for a Scots lad playing in the final of the US Open, there wasn't a single Scottish flag flying there amongst the others, to honour his achievement.
Just another sentiment !
86

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 16:39:28
AJ - thanks :)

Guenevere @ 89

Bjorn Borg never shaved at Wimbledon on every occasion when he won the Championship 5 times. He was superstitious and had won it unshaven the first time so continued in that vein throughout his career. For all we know he may have sworn a bit in Swedish as well :)

Nadal can look very aggressive when he plays and he fistpumps and snarls with the best of them. I've yet to see him smile during a match. He probably swears in Spanish as well.

The point is Andy may well smarten up as he matures and his attitude on court has improved. I don't think he was warned for swearing at all during the US Open. Let him concentrate on his tennis - he may yet have his statue next to Freds at Wimbledon :))
87

DavidFife,

Fife 10/09/2008 16:41:15
Andy Murray is an inspiring example from the heartland of Scotland.

I wonder if anybody ever asked him if he was happy being described as "British"?
I suspect that English people who predominantly prefer the description British are happy about that.
It has been somewhat obvious that the (International) BBC is one of the predominantly English organisations that has a great influence over national identities being swallowed within the word British, when it suits them. At least the BBC have the excuse of the word British being part of their organisations title. That's not true of “The Scotsman”.

(Perhaps)Things have been marginally milder over the last couple of decades, but I remember well since my childhood (i.e./for the past 40 years) : Things that were well done by Scots were described as done by the English as British achievements; Things that were less flattering were described as Scottish.

I suspect there might be a bit of bullet bighting going on with Scotland's most successful tennis player of all time.

This writers describing the use of bad language : What they say is anti-cultural and over-prudish.

All words have inestimable value within a language, so called "swear words" included.

If "swear" words were examined by the prudes, they would find that usage changes - the words themselves were invented for a purpose and in fact reflect society when there importance or meaning changes. Society does not only have a single, generally hypocritical, superior class of linguists. (that's a self imposed illusion that the minority “superior class” live with)

I feel offended by comments against colourful terminology.
Long live free expression and minds unhindered by social prohibition.
88

guenevere,

10/09/2008 17:01:02
93.You seem to have a problem,andy murray is British number one, because he is a British subject FACT. Now it does not matter if you approve of this or not,as for people objecting to swear words,not all of us were brought up in the gutter!
89

guenevere,

10/09/2008 17:20:46
92. Guess you support Andy because he is British,if the nats get their way you won't get that chance,but,you could always support Chris Eaton,Englands up and coming tennis star!
90

EnglishHighlander,

10/09/2008 17:20:46
#93

You may be correct, I myself, do not like to be labeled "British" and I hate being called a "Brit".

But it's also true that Murray is the Scottish No.1 as well as the British No.1 and probably doesn't mind either term being used - but, "British" does give him the honour of being the best tennis player in Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The term "World No.1" will probably come into effect at some point.
91

guenevere,

10/09/2008 17:25:41
95. My daughter was brought up,as opposed to you,who was obviously DRAGGED-UP!
92

EnglishHighlander,

10/09/2008 17:26:16
#96 guenevere

You really are bitter and twisted, aren't you? Why have a go at Joanna? What she said is true.

Oh, and it won't matter if Scotland breaks from the Union, because the term "British" applies to all of us on these islands, whether in Union, or not.
93

guenevere,

10/09/2008 17:32:17
99. You really are bitter and twisted, aren't you? Why have a go at Joanna? What she said is true.
Not at all,but i will not sit back and watch whilst England is disrespected,not only by scots,but by twits like you.
94

guenevere,

10/09/2008 17:34:04
99. Think joanna can speak for herself.
95

European Scot,

10/09/2008 17:37:35
95 Dave from Barra

" 98. My daughter was brought up,as opposed to you,who was obviously DRAGGED-UP! "

Dave, Guinevere is clearly having fantasies about you in a sequinned number.
Perhaps a brief description of your last appearance may settle her.
On the other hand, it is tea time !
96

DavidFife,

Fife 10/09/2008 17:52:12
Do you think that Someone from Spain or Portugal wants to be described as Iberian?

As a matter of mere description isn't the idea of Britain derived from a Roman description of a landscape they chose to describe as Britannia. Apart from occasional incursions into Caledonia, didn't it stop at Hadrian's wall? (Antonine's ditch wasn't quite the same thing)

In any case, didn't they describe, for the most part of what is today known as Scotland (Alba in Gaelic) as something other than Britannia. - I might be wrong....

OK at the moment it is an easy description for this collection of countries : the British Isles. Perhaps not terribly popular in Ireland for a first description.

How popular and often used is Skandanavia as a first description throughout those relatively congenial northern countries of Europe I wonder..?
97

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 18:01:11
guenevere

Its the tennis that I enjoy and tennis is about personalities not nationalities, unless its Olympics or Davis Cup competitions.

I would have supported Bjorn Borg over any other player, regardless of where they came from, when he was competing. I can also say the same about Andre Aggassi and Rafa Nadal.

However, I also like Murray's style of play and when Nadal is not competing I support Murray.

Is Chris Eaton even on the circuit yet? I know he played as a wild card at Wimbledon but I don't think he was at the US Open.
98

guenevere,

10/09/2008 19:12:31
107. Oh dear,you are as thick as Kim (kimba to you) says. I am kimbas mother. You will soon learn that you will not intimidate me.

102.Dave from Barra. Sorry to hear your p-nis enlargement didn't work,but as you are the Proverbial d-ckhead anyway,you won't be to disappointed.
99

guenevere,

10/09/2008 19:16:36
106. Not yet,but he is a very good tennis player and it's only a matter of time.
100

guenevere,

10/09/2008 19:18:20
Joanna. What do you think of a Great Britain football team?
101

EnglishHighlander,

10/09/2008 20:19:58
guenevere (kimba or whatever)

"...i will not sit back and watch whilst England is disrespected,not only by scots,but by twits like you."

I'm afraid the only "twit" around here is you. It's no wonder that the Scots have a low opinion of English people like yourself. You are just a narrow-minded bigot.

Furthermore, if you can't take the flak, then just why are you on this forum?

102

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 20:22:14
"Joanna. What do you think of a Great Britain football team?"


I try to avoid thinking about, reading or watching anything to do with football.
103

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/09/2008 20:43:44
Hi Dave :)

I like rugby as well, but tennis is my favourite.

I think Orwell's view on international sport is very close to the truth:

"At the international level sport is frankly mimic warfare. But the significant thing is not the behavior of the players but the attitude of the spectators: and, behind the spectators, of the nations who work themselves into furies over these absurd contests, and seriously believe - at any rate for short periods - that running, jumping and kicking a ball are tests of national virtue."

George Orwell 1945

104

The Pict.,

Canada 11/09/2008 03:36:39
To all you Unionist (English ) LACKIES. IT'S ABOUT TIME YOU STARTED SWEARING AND GOT COMPETETIVE LIKE ANDY. YOU COULD WIN YOUR FREEDOM AND AYE, PRIDE. That would translate into pounds but SCOTTISH pounds or GROATS.
SLAINTE MHATH.
105

BorderLineScottish,

11/09/2008 11:05:57
#116

I think you might find it's not just the English who are unionists!

Bit rich, your comments, coming from yet another exiled Scot (if that's what you really are). Why not get your backside back over to your homeland and help with the cause?

Shades of Sean Connery - fight the good fight, but only if it's from afar!

 

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