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Published Date: 29 June 2008
ONE of Britain's biggest supermarkets has warned it could sabotage SNP plans to crack down on cheap alcohol by setting up distribution centres across the border and selling cut-price drink on the internet.



Asda chiefs said there was "nothing to stop" them – and other supermarkets – building new warehouses in northern England and transporting alcohol ordered on the web direct to homes in Scotland.

The firm suggested such a move was inevitable if ministers north of the border denied customers cheap deals on alcohol available in England.

Asda is the first of the big four supermarkets to break its silence over the SNP plans, announced two weeks ago, which include measures to raise the drinking age in off-sales to 21, and to set a minimum price on all alcohol, with each unit being sold at no less than 35p.

Rob Chester, head of licensing at Asda, said: "There is nothing to stop companies looking at expanding their home shopping network or opening up depots just south of the border and delivering to homes in Scotland."

Paul Kelly, the store's corporate affairs director, added: "The big point here is that these measures will actually hurt the poorest.

"Low income Scottish consumers will pay for this. These plans could create two classes of customer: some who are reliant on the local supermarket because they use cash and others who will get deals over the internet."

He added: "The well-off person in Bearsden will be OK. But a poor family in Dundee will pay. It is about a £10,000 a year person being punished for wanting to have a drink at the end of a week. That is the unintended consequence of what is being proposed."

Store chiefs claimed they had already carried out several measures to act against irresponsible drinking, removing so-called 'fruit shooters' and super-strength lager from shelves. Asda also recently announced plans to spend £1m over the next year on youth-targeted alcohol projects

The move to limit the amount of shelf space available to alcohol, they warned, would also drive out small producers from lucrative supermarket spots.

Chester said: "We may have to strip out products that don't sell well from small suppliers to make more space for the bulk selling lines."

The supermarket also said it would be protesting about the fact that bars, pubs and clubs had been largely left out of the picture in the crackdown.

Kelly said: "You can have six pints at the pub and then stock up with a carry out from the pub but it isn't OK for a 20-year-old soldier returning from Iraq to go out and buy a bottle of wine on a Friday evening so he can enjoy a night in front of the telly with his girlfriend. It just doesn't make sense."

SNP ministers are now facing a summer of intense pressure over their plans, as they go out to consultation. The drinks industry is expected to follow up with a summer campaign, in which it will test public opinion. The plans to raise the age limit in off-sales to 21 has already been questioned by SNP backbenchers and by student groups as well.

A Scottish Government spokeswoman said last night that Asda's comments simply "strengthened the case for Government action" against irresponsible promotions and pricing.

She added: "We encourage the UK Government to follow our lead and take action on cheap alcohol across the country. We would also point out that such action could potentially jeopardise the licences held for every store in Scotland.

"High-strength, low-cost alcohol is not a right. It's fuelling the damage to our communities, costing over £2bn a year and having a huge effect on our health service and criminal justice system. We are not prepared to stand by and watch this continue. That's why we're consulting on bold proposals to tackle alcohol misuse and change the culture in Scotland."


The full article contains 664 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 28 June 2008 11:00 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Alcohol & binge drinking
 
1

Fifi la Bonbon,

29/06/2008 00:23:19
I don't see why any supermarket needs to be permitted to sell alcohol or tobacco.

I think they should withdraw all off-licences and then permit only specially licensed vintners and tobacconists, to sell alcoholic beverages and tobacco (and matches, I suppose) respectively.

That would enable the hypothetical 20 year old squaddie back fae Iraq, about whom the ASDA corporate affairs director is so worried, to get paralytic with his burd, so long as he got someone over 21 to buy it for him.

Of course ASDA staff wouldn't sell booze to a 20 year old, would they?
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 00:25:16

LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION!.."ASDA",!!!

Dumbo The Elephant, could not of thought of a more,,..

'STUPID LAW'!

The Only one it would affect is us the older ones!

ARE THE SUCH LOONIES! THEY DONT UNDERSTAND THIS,??


THE UNDER 21s AND TEENS, 'WILL' ALWATYS GET THEIR BOOZE, 'NO-MATTER' WHAT YOU DO!

THEY HAVE WAYS AND MEANS, YOU KNOW!

AS I WOULD, AT THIS AGE GROUP!

LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION!

Lets Drink To That!
3

Senga Jean,

29/06/2008 00:58:45
ASDA! ASDA! Your irresponsibility is showing. The SNP Government is seeking a solution to a major problem in the Northern Hemisphere. Perhaps England and Scotland could unite in a more helpful way and ban all supermarkets from selling alcohol. (Union just for that mind!)
4

Fanling,

Switzerland 29/06/2008 01:05:13
Another MacAskill supersonic diktat hits the fan. Will this man never learn? Sorry to say, but the SNP is becoming less credible by the day.

Prior to this idiocy (penalising the majority for being sensible), the latest rave news is Salmond's nod to Islamic schools - funded, if you please, by the Scots taxpayer. A few years back I really thought the SNP was Scotland's answer to the Labour chicanery of the past 10 years, and prior Tory slash-and-burn contempt. But no. I feel let down by recent less than responsible events.

MacAskill long ago lost whatever credibility he might have had (not a lot). Salmond, on his Islamic schools bandwagon venture, has completely and incredibly lost the plot. And he will lose voters, for sure. Me for one.

Scotland needs a new political party (or more independents) with broad vision, which will truly stand up for Scotland and those from other parts who choose to live in Scotland, and - crucially - those who adhere to Scots values and do not seek to impose their own upleasant religious agenda on the general populace.

Before any wisecracker steps in, that statement about values naturally excludes the ned culture whose fetid feral existence successive governments continue to permit to offend society without sanction.

We are at a crossroads. Something needs to be done.


5

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 29/06/2008 01:10:09
What a pathetic English snaphead. There's a very simple solution here. Pull ASDAs Scottish licenses. And if they are running bootleg alcohol over the border grab the trucks.
This a serious challenge to the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament.
If they actually do it. There are two chances of that happening. And slim just left town.
6

,

29/06/2008 01:22:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 01:34:44

Are we all, as 'Daft' and 'Stupid' as the Politician's,?


Don't matter what you,, 'ENFORCE' the Teens and under 21s will get their "Booze"!

IS, ONE AND ONE,.. 'TWO',?

If you think this correct! get a life and see our,...

"Asda" is Perfectly correct!, to challenge, 'Idiotic' and Absolute 'Stupid' Legislation!,..


The 'Dumbo Circus', calls for!
8

Fanling,

Switzerland 29/06/2008 01:47:29
#7 Neil Waugh,Old Strathcona
"What a pathetic English snaphead."

Who is the pathetic English snaphead to whom you refer? Serious question.
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

29/06/2008 01:48:34
See, we all probably think Kenny McAskill is a thicko.

But as Doonhamer has shown, this is really just a subtle ploy for the SNP to set up frontier posts with special border guards, probably wearing tartan trews and glengarrys in a design by Mr Salmond, to search visitors for illicit English booze and check people's "papers".

- "Would ye mind openin' yur car boot, Surr?"

- "Ah see ye've come fae Carlisle, Surr. Dae ye huv yur importation licence handy?"

Mr McAskill isn't the eejit we all think, is he?
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 02:55:57

Well tell you what! to put an understanding on this topic,

When I was in my 'Teens' 17/18years, we used to drive down to Newcastle for late night drinking and the clubs, this was when all Scottish Pubs closed their doors at 10 o'clock!

Soo what will be the difference now,?,...NONE!

Our Teens WILL Find ways to drink the,..'Booze'

Well-Done to,.."Asda" for fighting this Political Stupidity!
11

Gina Gibson,

Wales 29/06/2008 02:56:33
Asda is owned by Wal Mart...an AMERICAN company.
When did the Americans ever respect any country's borders?

We should start taxing Buckfast,mad dog, thunderbird and all the alcopops TO THE MAXIMUM.
12

Forward not Back,

29/06/2008 03:19:01
I said this a few weeks when Kenny the fountain dancer came up with this stupid notion.

Are the SNP going to police the border now as well?

And how much would that cost?

Drop this stupid idea now.
13

C.U. Jimmy,

29/06/2008 03:34:47
Folks, you need to go and re-read Orwell's 1984.

Endless cheap booze for the proles ('Victory Gin' in the novel) is a necessary component of the type of regime we now have under Big Brother Brown. Being drunk muddles your mind and stops you thinking about how much better life could be under a different Government.
14

The Trossachs Hasher,

29/06/2008 03:40:24
I think this says far more about Asda than it does about government policy.

If they think selling cheap alchohol is the only way they can make money then I do feel sorry for them. By being openly defiant and saying " we will just keep selling it on the internet anyway" is no better than people who drink too much already saying "we will just carry on getting drunk" and sticking two fingers up at the government.

There is a serious social problem here and all Asda can think about are their profits and their "right" to sell alchohol as they please.



15

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 29/06/2008 03:51:36
#6 Fanling,Switzerland.
So how would you deal with this nigtmare which blights Scotland?
Your right "We are at a crossroads. Something needs to be done" but what?

If we can prevent kids getting their hands on boose, at leats they have a chance to grow up and mature, before their hooked into this. The goverment should be commended for at least trying to do something about it. But again I ask you, WHAT would you do?
16

W Smith,

Middle East 29/06/2008 04:04:15
In the USA this is not unusual as the taxes on booze can vary from state to state and some americans will cross the state border just to load up on cheaper booze.

I can't believe I am saying this but I think MacAskill has got it right!

BTW
The Weegies alcohol problem is no laughing matter - look how many of them think the Old Firm are respected throughout Europe!
17

Son of Loki,

The Dark Side 29/06/2008 04:47:28
Really responsible of the Supermarket, fly in the face of the latest idea to fight the problem of Scotland's drink culture. No doubt Asda will be 'Rolling Back' all the alcohol over the border.

Stay alive people, it's the only way to live

Loki Jnr
18

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO 29/06/2008 05:19:06

I lived in Scotland from birth in 1930 until 1953 and I can tell you it was a miserable depressing cold country.......Booze..Scotch was 12/6 when WW 11 started jumped to 25/- at war's end and then skyrocketed from there..IT WAS THE UK's only 'hard currency' earner.....Purchase tax 30% under 1000 Pounds 60% above 1000 Pounds.......Income tax 95% for most people.......106% for people earning REAL MONEY(Golfers, Fotballers and movie actors).......Estate taxes at GOD ONLY KNOWS what level with country houses having their roofs ripped off to avoid crippling taxes.......Petrol rationing(causing me to become a criminal buying coupons so I could motor cycle from Edinburgh to Yarrow)

The only solace to be had was in CLOUDY CIDER that the STUDENTS UNION in 'BRISTO' Edinburgh sold to us students, at 1/- per pint.

I reckon Scotland today is lapsing into the same state as it was in the late forties when the HEAVY HAND OF SOCIALISM suppressed any initiative or enjoyment! Cheap booze may be the only thing that makes life bearable.
19

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 29/06/2008 07:13:58
Prohibition that will work.
20

beeree,

29/06/2008 07:20:36
This is so, so, stupid a proposition by SNP it must be a decoy for more devious legislation.

Look at the comments above - border patrols- end user licences - etc.

There is a discipline of thought here that can only come from a saturday night drunkard.
21

Roy,

29/06/2008 07:26:00
I'm against MacRascal's silly strategy on this, demonising young folk carte blanche, but Asda is putting commercial greed before social responsbibility with a statement like this.
22

Brahann,

Fife 29/06/2008 07:31:50
Can People please remember what this is about!

These findings are from the home office:

Over half (56%) of all 10- to 17-year-olds reported having had an alcoholic drink in the previous 12 months. This figure was highest among 16- to 17-year-olds (88%) and lowest among 10- to 13-year-olds (29%).

There was no gender difference in frequency of alcohol consumption among 10- to 17-year olds. However, among 18- to 25-year-olds, more men (68%) than women (51%) reported drinking alcohol once a week or more.

One-third of those 10- to 17-year-olds who reported drinking alcohol once a month or more also reported feeling very drunk once a month or more in the previous 12 months.

For those respondents aged 10 to 17 years who had drunk alcohol in the past year, the majority reported drinking alcopops (59%) and beer (46%).

48% of 10-to 17-year-olds who had drunk alcohol in the past year reported that they obtained alcohol from their parents, although those who got very drunk at least once a month generally obtained alcohol from pubs, bars and shops rather than from their parents .

Around half of 16- to 17-year-olds had tried to buy alcohol from pubs and bars (59%) or shops (47%) in the past 12 months and most had been successful at least once (98% of those trying pubs and bars and 96% of those trying shops).

Those who drank alcohol once a week or more committed a disproportionate volume of crime, accounting for 37% of all offences reported by 10- to 17-year-olds but only 14% of respondents. Those who had never drunk alcohol or had not drunk alcohol in the past year committed 16% of all offences but comprised 45% of respondents.

A higher proportion of those who drank alcohol once a week or more reported committing criminal damage (12%) and theft (4%) offences during or after drinking than those who drank less frequently.

Shame on the Scotsman and Eddie Barnes! or maybe they have a magic wand to make this problem go away..... or maybe shares in Asda!
23

Guga II,

Rockall 29/06/2008 07:45:06
That waste of space, Kenny MacAskill, and his proposed stupid legislation, will not stop alcohol abuse or alcohol usage by underage drinkers.

As for ASDA importing alcohol from England, there is nothing that he, or anyone else, can do about it, at least under current EU regulations.

The simplest way to try and obtain some form of control over underage drinking, as well as the abuse of alcohol, is to enforce exisiting legislation, and to increase penalties for breaches of the legislation. In addition, parents of underage drinkers should, in the case of repeat offenders, also be penalised. Parents should be forced to accept some responsibility for the actions of their children.

24

brownlie,

29/06/2008 07:49:01

From the negativity of some of the posts on here it would appear that it is more important that a superstore makes a profit than it is for tackle a problem that has bedevilled Scotland for years.

From the tone of the article I'm surprised that Eddie Barnes did not begin with:
"Rejoice! Rejoice! One of Britain's biggest supermarkets has warned it could sabotage SNP's plans ...."
25

Labour voter,

Dunfermline 29/06/2008 07:55:50
The "drinkers" writing in this forum obviously don't have gangs of drunk youths roaming their area causing mayhem. We were all young and silly at one time, but never bad and destructive. Things are getting totally out of hand now and folk are even frightened to venture out on their own. I think national service made responsible adults out of young people and gave them pride and respect, something you don't see now. I admire anyone who is trying to solve a massive problem. Oh, and I won't be doing my shopping in Asda again! We all need to start walking to our corner shop daily again, maybe a wee bit dearer, but think about the price of petrol.
26

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 08:03:20
Yes, of course, Berwick could become a Prohibition-era utopia, but it wouldn't be entering into the spirit of the initiative, would it ? Bless the SNP ; they ARE trying to turn us into a healthier nation, are they not ? I don't want to pay more for alcohol. But,equally, I don't want more Scots to die prematurely.
27

Linda,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 08:10:44
27 is spot on. Excessive drinking is the biggest problem in Scotland. Suggest critics and journos visit any Hospital A&E Department at weekends.

Many other countries such as the USA have 21 as lower limit and in Australia supermarkets must have a separate shop entrance for selling alcohol. Also the drink driving limit is much lower.

These are not backward countries.

Supermarkets should not be allowed to sell alcohol at cut prices . These measure would encourage sensible drinking and help local pubs and small hotels which are closing down down to supermarket policies.
28

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 29/06/2008 08:13:42
If I want to be an alcholic I will be and no politicion is going to take away my Human rights to do this. The country is turning into a dictatorship.
Pull the licences by all means then when all the companies leave scotland for elsewhere you will have to pick up the tab for all those left unemployed by the big business departure
29

The Tin Man,

29/06/2008 08:15:30
I guess we would all have to be issued with ID cards for this to work.
30

Norman C.,

London 29/06/2008 08:21:17
You who knock Asda, you're SO unfair.


Asda is a socially responsible company. I think of it as my little shop round the corner, working and concerned for the little people. I wept tears when I read dear Paul Kelly's heart-rending and sincere comments (he's the store's corporate affairs director and a man of integrity and decency): "The big point here is that these measures will actually hurt the poorest."

Why are so many of you such cynics?
31

steve 1511,

aberdeen 29/06/2008 08:31:46
profits before peoples health thats the asda way.cheap sausages filled with fat and other rubbish what next meths by the litre
32

Norman C.,

London 29/06/2008 08:41:28
Oh Steve,

How COULD you. May you be struck dumb by an Asda Frankfurter and may the spirit of Asda (100% proof) haunt you.

For shame.
33

Lillig,

29/06/2008 09:01:14
Even though there is undoubtedly a problem, the SNP solution is a bit big-brotherish and heavy handed.

Agree with Charles. Young people will be inventive in finding their drinks. No matter what.

This is what needs to be addressed. Make it much much tougher. Supermarkets could put the sales of alcohol separately from other foods. You could view a sample wine bottle on display, but would have to pick it up from behind a counter. Assistants on this counter would have to be mature - over 25 - and sales not made to anyone under 21. Pubs could do the same.

Anyone buying alcohol on behalf of minors should be fined heavily.

But even if you disagree with Asda's comments. They are only telling what will happen in reality. People in Romania, for example, cross to the Bulgarian borders to buy duty free alcohol. People in other countries go to borders to buy all kinds of things when they can be bought cheaper. I would too if it suited me.
34

Boyne Bhoy,

Drogheda 29/06/2008 09:05:09
Simple solutions are no solutions.

Whoever says alcohol is cheap in the UK is a fool. Travel just about anywhere in continental Europe and booze is substantialy cheaper. The problem is the way British people use alcohol not the alcohol itself.

If people could learn to use not abuse alcohol everything would be fine and dandy-if people in Scotland could act responsibly then we would be fine-why can't they-that is the issue which needs to be addressed.

Anyway, alcohol in Ireland is much more expensive so I'm off to Sainsburys in Newry to stock up-toodloo!
35

Blindscout,

Fife 29/06/2008 09:06:36
My wife works on a ward where half the beds are taken up with alcohol related illnesses. There is not a week goes by when someone under 45 dies with alcohol related illness. I have a paramedic friend who says 1/3 of ambulance use on a Sat night is alcohol related and he says the police call cover their own backs with drunks these days by callig an ambulance rather than a paddy wagon. If you had the option of a night in the cells or waiting in A&E for 3-4 hours, what would you choose?

These SNPs ideas are in a discussion document. Most comments here are anti anthing. But something needs to be done. So less of the sh1ty comments. Come up with solutions that may work. Some of the proposals such as selling alcohol at seperate tills like cigs is sound. I would also reduce the hours at all off-licences. especially in the evening.

My solutions. Laws already exist for drunks in public places and selling alcohol to persons already drunk. Remove the selling licenses for those infringing thair responsiblity. Lock up all drunks in cages and cool them down with a fire hose. They will soon get the message. This would not affect the well behaved drinkers. It would not hurt the poorer. But we do need to think of solution to a very real problem.
36

Nikostratos,

29/06/2008 09:18:29
I hope the snp carry on regardless........bit like nu-labour there gonna get the same result..Boing..Boing and out.


#41

we live in a society which creates Drunks.....you wanna stop making drunks change society..The snp say they can but on one measure the council tax freeze. they have shown rather than use money from the most well of in society to aid those in need(alcohol dependence etc).

They 'Choose' to allow the wealthy to keep thier cash so I'm afraid the drink problem will have to stay in Scottish society.
37

C U Jimmy,

East Ayrshire 29/06/2008 09:31:44
I suppose the North England distribution centers could include Heroin, Cannabis, Crack, and so on to maximize their profits.
38

Danilo,

29/06/2008 09:47:56
I would like to suggest to replece milk in babies' bottles with ALCOHOL!!!

To Fanling,Switzerland: your comments show your level of intelligence!
39

Phil C,

29/06/2008 09:54:14
Yes we have a huge problem with alcohol in Scotland, BUT it is only a huge problem with a small minority. Kenny McAskill is well-meaning with his crusades but he is well wrong with his proposed solutions.

Education, education, education (words which meant nothing out of Bliar's mouth) is the key. Youngsters need to be taught to take responsibility for their own actions and be punished by the law if they don't.

Kenny's policy of rules (which will be broken) and more tax is a serious weakness in the SNP just now. It is unpopular with the great majority who enjoy a responsible tipple.

Let's face it, many Scots without a drink are like fish without water!
40

Gorbals Man,

Glasgow 29/06/2008 09:57:37
It appears that Asda may have a hidden Agenda in attempting to interfere with Scottish politics and the progress of Scottish Nationalism by being anti SNP but supporting the Labour party.

Is it a coincidence that one of the 10 named Wendy Alexander donors was Willie Haughey probably one of Asda's biggest contractors and a declared Royalist who is anti Scottish independence. It is also rumoured that Asda has a share holding in Haughey's company City Refrigeration?

Is it coincidence that all this should surface when Ms Alexander resigns and a Labour MP announces his retirement making way for a by election in Shettleston that the SNP is capable of winning?

I think not.

41

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 29/06/2008 10:09:10
the solutions look simple, either tax them more in scotland or, change the law and withdraw the licences of certain types of store to sell booze in Scotland.
42

bobwmac,

29/06/2008 10:09:49
It's not the big supermarkets that are selling alcohol to the feral teenagersand their apprentices. On a Sunday morning you can see the evidence of the revolting behaviour of the drunk children who invade our area every weekend. Behind them they leave their broken bottles and carrier bags - these carrier bags do not originate in supermarkets, but in the local "corner shops", the owners of which know they are "untouchable".

43

Mikey,

29/06/2008 10:19:16
I got my first drink in a pub at 15. I regularly abused my liver for a couple of years. When you're a kid, moderation is something you don't think of.

It would be interesting to find out how many polis were around in 1970 and how many are around now. In 1970, there was a definite chance of being caught for underafe drinking. I don't think there is now! Also, if you wanted to but drink away from a pub, you had to go to an off licence, in the main. We didn't have the situation where every wee local shop has a drinks licence.

Perhaps if we restricted the issue of off licences, we'd have a better chance of stopping under age drinking. Or is that too simple?
44

Fifi la Bonbon,

29/06/2008 10:20:35
I agree with the view that supermarkets should have licences to sell booze and fags taken away from them, and there should be lots fewer places with licences and heavy penalties properly enforced against anyone involved in putting booze in the hands of children under 18.

But frontier posts and new taxes and "single user licences" is a stupid Stalinist approach to the problem. Far better to try and work with the Department of Health, BERR and other English and UK departments to see how administrations across the UK can resolve the problem.

But that is the big problem - will the SNP administration put its overwhelming desire to stir up antipathy between the nations above the need to take action to preserve the health of the people? I have serious doubts if they will. More likely they will see this as one more opportunity to stir the pot.

ASDA, on the other hand, is clearly run by a bunch of unprincipled drug dealers who don't even know their own policies when it comes to selling booze to people under 21.
45

busbyfh,

29/06/2008 10:22:15
Draconian booze moves on pricing etc will lose SNP 20 to 30% of their voters.
Labour is imploding.
Very few folk would ever admit to voting Consevative.
Who the hell does that leave us to vote for ?
Doors wide open - Roll up , roll up.
46

eric,

29/06/2008 10:31:42
take your shops and jobs with you please
47

MisterN,

Scotland 29/06/2008 10:33:35
2

Big fan of alcopops are you pops? what a troll.
48

MisterN,

Scotland 29/06/2008 10:35:18
6

Aye that must have been a dagger in your islamaphobic heart eh?
49

MisterN,

Scotland 29/06/2008 10:36:37
14

They will have to spend some of the money they have for booze on transport costs so they will obviously have to cut down on the amount they drink wont they?
50

WYORKSTEACHER,

29/06/2008 10:37:34
I live in England but have many relatives and friends in Scotland. My Father proudly served in the Black Watch in WWII. My family name is Scottish. I regard myself as British. The concept of the 'border' implies that it is something other than a line on a map. I wholeheartedly endorse moderation in drink and other things. Ultimately you cannot impose common sense. You can punish antisocial behaviour and the comments earlier re NED culture were totally valid. The EU laws forbid any 'cross border taxation etc. The free market will win out and youths will go to the cheap beer and bright lights. Look at what has happened re tobacco and alcohol sales in Southern England respectable off-licences and tobacconists will be replaced by crooks and the booze will continue to flow. The only difference is that the profits will go to crooks. ASDA and others will simply supply the maket NEEDS. To have an effect you must change this NEED.
51

MisterN,

Scotland 29/06/2008 10:39:42
23

The principle of dealing with the drink problem in Scotland and indeed the whole of the UK is popular and welcomed by nearly everybody the SNP are trying to deal with this principle by making it more difficult for youngster to get a hold of alcohol now what exactly is "Big Brother" about that?
And when are you going to stop pretending your a federalist and not a unionist? your credibility is bad enough already.
You already smell like a troll.
52

The Tin Man,

29/06/2008 10:44:42
A better idea might be to have a long, and sustained media-campaign to stigmatise being pished, and I am talking about a couple of decades long.

It is socially acceptable to be blootered, of an evening, in Scotland - that is the problem.
53

MisterN,

Scotland 29/06/2008 10:44:45
43

Wouldnt it be better is junkies and alkis had to leave Scotland to get their fix? or would you prefer it was more available here?
54

MisterN,

Scotland 29/06/2008 10:48:07
59

Aye nothing wrong with that idea its still regarded as macho and sexy to bevy smoke and take drugs.
Mind you if they took out the ingrediants that make them addictive then there wouldnt be a problem.
55

Boswall,

29/06/2008 10:48:43
We should be thanking Asda.

Strict enforcement of existing laws would solve the under age alcohol problem, no need to development unenforcable laws that penalise the majority.
56

Boswall,

29/06/2008 10:50:39
#55

It's hardly islamophobic to object to tax payer money being spent on religious schools, we are afterall supposed to have seperation between church and state.
57

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 10:51:58
#58 - MisterN. You quote "you already smell like a troll".

Are you confused.

This article is about a strange Nirvana, of Not Smelling Like Teen Spirit.
58

LAM,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 10:52:44
While we are on this topic of responsible drinking/selling... we should take a page from some other countries like Canada. They have special certificate course (Smart Serve) that all bar staff including waiting staff must take in order to help them identify persons who need to be cut off. If you are served booze to the point of going over the limite limit and get into a car accident killing someone.. the bar now takes on the liability because they knowing contined to serve you and endangering peoples lives.
59

bluehead,

edinburgh 29/06/2008 10:59:00
three cheers for ASDA,down with the SNP, the majority
of people who like a drink at reasonable prices and behave themselves and do not cause any trouble seem to be the ones to suffer every time the yobs cause trouble.
politicians seem to think that the majority of well behaved people should suffer for the minority of wasters, I thought SNP would be an improvement, instead they are as bad as the rest of the political parties
60

lachlan,

29/06/2008 11:01:55
#59
agree there many countries where alcohol is cheaper and they do not have the same prolems with alcohol.we accept getting 'blootered'(is that how you spell it)as the norm.we have as many terms for getting intoxicated as the inuit have for snow.we almost glory in it.it's as if it is something we can show the world how to do and are pruod of it.i do not think making alchol 'special'with seperate check outs and the rest is the answear.or is making it harder to aquire.
it has not exactly worked with illicit drugs.
61

Publius,

Girvan 29/06/2008 11:02:03
#49 bobwmac

Right on Bob. At last some reason on this board. The big supermarkets go to a lot of trouble not to sell drink to under-18s. The little cornershops will sell anything to anyone.

Couple of other points.
(1) If drink gets dearer than in England, a lot of business is going to go to Berwick and Edinburgh.
(2) Children don't get drunk because it's cheap. They get drunk because it's fashionable. It'd go out of fashion if the children were rounded up and their parents were charged with neglect.
62

Itchy,

29/06/2008 11:02:56
#5 "The SNP Government is seeking a solution to a major problem in the Northern Hemisphere"

Wrong! The proposals are just a tax and power grab worthy of the Soviet Union.

Well done ASDA for sabotaging these plans.
63

Publius,

Girvan 29/06/2008 11:04:06
Correction to my 68.

Should read: ...Berwick from Edinburgh ...
64

Andrew Buchan,

Kincardineshire 29/06/2008 11:43:08
Great news, thanks ASDA.

Heaven forbid that the weegies are not permitted to drink themselves into an early grave or clutter up their town centres getting smashed on Buckfast or Special Brew.

I'll be shopping elswhere now. Your store in Portlethen just lost a customer.
65

Euan,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 11:49:46
I say good on Asda for taking on the ridiculous proposed plans regarding the sale of alcohol.

The fact is the Government has completely failed to enforce it's very own laws on the sale of alcohol.

We constantly hear of the stories of underage people being 'employed' to go into certain off-licences to try and buy booze in order to catch the retailer breaking the law, but how many of these retailers are actually properly punished for this? - none.

Local authorities have issued far, FAR too many licenses to sell alcohol to FAR too many irresponsible retailers and the Government does not have the balls to act on this.

Instead they think that by simply raising the price of drink it will solve all the problems they are looking to fix.

Meantime, the perfectly responsible drinkers of Scotland are forced to pay more for their favourite drink at a time when the price of almost everything else is sky rocketing....


66

Colinmac,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 11:56:08
Well done Asda.

It is high time that polititians realised that they were NOT voted in to infringe civil liberties or engage in futile social engineering.

They brought in a smoking ban which did not appear in any election manifesto and now they want to interfere with free market economics (which rarely succeeds) without an election mandate.

I sincerely trust that these polititions will rot in Hell.
67

Mr A. of Bonaly,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 12:05:25
In light of the benefits seen and yet to be realised from the reform of smoking laws, I am astonished to find so much apathy and ignorance still being attached to our relationship with booze.

How many must-dos...,missed opportunities, unforefilled expectations, late morning, children sitting in darken rooms.

The story of drink in our society can be addressed from many perspectives but the saddest has to be that of our youth being preyed upon buy well crafted marketing and drinks promotions.

I like a drink, I even drink to get drunk. I certainly don't wake dehydrated and spent thanking ASDA for their 2for1 offer and I don't engage with the idea of ordering my Stella on-line. Why do we assume that we need to 'have a drink!?'. Can we not be spontaneous and fill our glass with life. Would a weekend look different without a hangover.

I for one will never shop in ASDA if they proceed with this plan to undermine a law that I see as being for social justice, strong leadership and a new healthier Scotland. One that I can be proud to raise my children in.
68

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 12:12:09
#81

I have never read so much twaddle in my life. Social justice ? Strong leadership ? Are you drunk ?

The idea that the price of drink should be increased ro reduce demand is the very antithesis of social justice ! It just reduces demand from poor people.
69

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 29/06/2008 12:29:32
Its an example of another half-baked policy dreamt up by some SNP activists. Lets face it this is a party that has one core theme, an independence agenda, that binds together a rag tag bunch of who knows what in terms of idealogical philosophy. They are mottly crew of socialists, conservatives, facists, communists, republicans, and aye a few so called liberals as well. Thier policies, on whatever topic you like to consider,cannot therefore hold together for any longer than it takes them to achieve their over-riding claim on seperation for Scotland. In the meantime they will blame everyone who doesn't share their fantasy but who prefers to believe in the United Kingdom as a better vehicle for our nation's well being. Salmond derides the UK but at the same time he wants a concordat with the other celtic nations and so he also effectively knows where we are best served. The man's a hypocrite and one day he will go the same way as all political charlatans.
70

sar,

edinburgh 29/06/2008 12:39:35
While southern Europeans tend to incorporate drinking with eating and find outward signs of intoxication embarrassing, the tradition in Scotland, and other Northern European (Scandinavian) countries, is to drink less often but with the intention of getting drunk.
Low strength alcohol could be sold in supermarkets, with the higher strength available through the off-license retailers
71

Ros,

Midlothian 29/06/2008 12:40:07
Brahan 27 re Over half (56%) of all 10- to 17-year-olds reported having had an alcoholic drink in the previous 12 months.
Does this not prove the point that kids at 10 can get alcohol now when the age is 18 so what difference would putting up to 21 make.
The answer is as always in education and diversion. Not just education in school either. Many of these kids are copying older siblings or parents. Geting them to drink responsibily first is the big task.
72

A. Puschkin,

29/06/2008 12:44:55
I think this says far more about Asda than it does about government policy...By being openly defiant and saying " we will just keep selling it on the internet anyway" is no better than people who drink too much already saying "we will just carry on getting drunk" and sticking two fingers up at the government.

The COMMENT above is correct.

In Stockholm - alcohol sales were removed from supermarkets into special shops. The result - reduced suicides. In Scotland suicides are not the greater problem - but violence and murder are.

So ASDA......... go back to the USA where gun ownership is once again permitted by the Bush government! QED



73

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 29/06/2008 12:46:41
I don't see the current proposals as being very well-developed, but I am convinced something needs to be done about alcohol.

I have seen some press reports to the effect that they are looking at a minimum price of 40p a unit in England, compared to a proposed 35p here. That would certainly scupper Asda's plans. This heavy-handed approach from Asda will certainly see me withdraw my custom for the time being until we see how this unfolds.
74

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 13:03:14
#87 I sympathise with your first statement but you missed a word. Something needs to be done about alcohol ABUSE. Alcohol. per se, is harmless and is much cheaper and less abused in most southern European countries.

A pricing mechanism, as suggested, can never be the answer. Alcopops are already outrageously expensive for what they are but the kids still buy them. I'm afraid that the 'tax and ban' brigade have got this one horribly wrong.

Short of an outright ban (and that has never worked anywhere) education can be the only long term answer to a problem of behavior.

75

Neil,

Glasgow 29/06/2008 13:04:31
It was obvious this would happen. Looks like even if we don't get independence we will still be seeing the SNP putting up customs posts at Berwick.

#1 has the typical statist solution. When a government ban doesn't work the solutionis more sever government bans, however in this case it would involve the Westminster Parliament enforcing extra rules on the English because some Scots want it - which is not going to happen.
76

brownlie,

29/06/2008 13:07:37
I understand that this is a consultation process by the government.

Whilst that is going on, I would like to see prosecutions and a severe sentencing policy for those who sell to, or buy drinks for, under-age drinkers. Once the news of a few prison sentences spread it will deter greedy shop-owners from breaking the law.

Teenagers in this area know which shops will sell cigarettes/alcohol to those underage. If we know this then surely the police do as well.
77

Yes We Can,

Ayr 29/06/2008 13:10:15
So ASDA supports all the social problems associated with a Binge Drinking Culture.

I'll not be shopping in ASDA any longer and will take my business to a more ethical retailer.
78

Greenhilljohn,

Glasgow 29/06/2008 13:15:03
I drink far too much but I am glad about this development. I already get most of my booze delivered in bulk from ASDA. I reckon that one day I will get my habit under control. If I am right I will become a moderate drinker who gets his drink at low prices. If I am wrong I will hit real problems.My viewpoint is rather selfish and perhaps deluded.I think this is all about market forces and not within the control of any government. People will always find ways around such legislation e.g. Home brewing,black market,bulk buying abroad.
79

macca,

the world 29/06/2008 13:30:25
This is a very emotional page, a wee still in the highlands, will be the way to go soon. Come to south Australia we have drive in bottle shops.
Left Scotland 29 years ago,get a grip Scotland theres bigger things to worry about. your going backwards, soon there will be border guards and show your booze pass.
80

Yes We Can,

Ayr 29/06/2008 13:42:01
Lots of post seem to say that Education is the answer, but I recall Alcohol/Drug Abuse education being part of the curriculum back in my school days in the 80's and the problem has worsened.

Agreed the pricing policy and age limit policy are flawed, but they have (when effectively implemented) been shown to have a positive impact on Anti Social behaviour.

We need to make some start on the problem so lets give this a try and if it doesn't work we can try something else. At least we now have a Government that is prepared to face the music and take actions that are tough, but necessary!
81

windturbiner,

gatwick 29/06/2008 13:45:18
as a jock, i am so glad i now live in england ...life is sweet... cheers!
82

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 29/06/2008 13:48:10
As far as I understtod the proposed legislation was designed to eliminate the dirt cheap alcohol like white cider. Such stuff was bought only to get drunk on. Most alcohol would remain largely unaffected by price.

There is a big difference between an individual going on a cheap booze cruise (as they do already to France for personal consumption) and a supermarket seeking to circumvent the law by selling alcohol in the way proposed. By selling over the internet to under 21 year olds in Scotland from depots England creates an awkward legal position. If the licencing authorities in Scotland considered ASDA's intentions were deliberately designed to break the law, then it might be that they will take the view that ASDA are unfit to hold licences to deal in alcohol. That will be a commercial decision for ASDA, whether they will gain more from selling cheap booze possibly to under age customers by freely delivering across Scotland at the expense of regular customers who will perhaps decide to go to Tesco for their major weekend shop becuase they need a £5 bottle of merlot for the Sunday lunch.

Should ASDA take the route they propose Why stop there for ASDA, why not sell to 12 year olds. Why not sell cannabis over the internet from Holland or heroin from Afghanistan. ASDA need to be aware of the law of unintended consequences.

We have a serious drink problem in Scotland. Not just underage feral drinking with violence and vandalism, but serious health implications to the regular law abiding drinkers with increasing costs to the health service and lost days (Mondays) to business.
83

sar,

edinburgh 29/06/2008 13:49:24
#94,Culture, you should consider climate when making statements on peoples culture. It is similiar to the statements "europeans drink without getting drunk, so why does Scotland have a problem"? Scandinavians are European, so you should ask the question, why?
84

windturbiner,

gatwick 29/06/2008 13:51:00
it is funny reading this...
press the red button folks! muhahahaha
85

jake. F,

renfrewshire 29/06/2008 13:51:45
Asda's are showing themselves to be the unprincipled money grabbers thart they are . Where is the sense of social responsibility that they are so often fond of bleeting on about.
This proposal is an act of total disrepect towards the Scottish people and Scottish Government .
The abuse of alcohol in Scotland is rife and if Asda go ahead they are merely saying "stuff you" to a country that is trying to do something good and positive in order to try and address the problem.
If a 20 year old sqaddie cant buy a drink in an off licence that is tough. Hundreds of thousands of people in Scotland who have been the victims of drink fuelled violent crime have had to pay far higher prices than that.
Asda - hang your head in shame!
86

windturbiner,

gatwick 29/06/2008 13:51:52
maybe you should all start making your home brews!
87

sar,

edinburgh 29/06/2008 13:59:19
#96 British 9th (Scottish) Division, the "Jocks"
88

Publius,

Girvan 29/06/2008 14:03:38
#91 brownlie

For once I agree with you. Retailers who sell drink to people underage should be brought to book.
But ASDA isn't the main offender. ASDA is the only big supermarket in Girvan. Some nights there are drunken teenagers loose on the streets, but they don't get their drink from ASDA. It's the wee corner shops that do it.
89

Publius,

Girvan 29/06/2008 14:05:28
#100 jake f

Do you really think that fifteen year olds are going to order drink in bulk by mail order over the internet?
90

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 14:09:21
Sorry Huntley Loon #97, while I agree with some of what you say, your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Where do ASDA say they will sell over the internet to under 21's ? Rather they say that they will avoid an artificial price-hike by selling over the internet. A totally different proposition. I would expect ASDA to respect Scottish laws.

If the Scottish toon cooncil decide that only 21 year olds can buy booze then so be it. But I trust that they also ban under 21s from joing up? If they can't be trusted with a bottle of wine then they certainly shouldn't be bearing arms, driving tanks or flying bombers !

This problem is one of antisocial behaviour by a small (but significant) minority. Consequently it is that section of society which should be targetted - not everyone.
91

Yes We Can,

Ayr 29/06/2008 14:20:15
#96 We're all glad you live in England too! Please stay there as long as you like.

P.S. Would you name be Gordon Brown by any chance!?
92

Allan(handofgod137),

29/06/2008 14:37:09
The best way to solve the underage drunk problem is to pass a law that docks the parent or guardian 3 months child benefit every time their underage child is caught drunk or in possession of alcohol.
93

Lundavra,

Fort William 29/06/2008 14:52:42
Isn't ASDA an American owned company?

What would be the attitude of the American government to a foreign owned company threatening to circumvent their strict restrictions on under-age drinkers? I suspect they would be immediate and hard-hitting.

MB
94

Yes We Can,

Ayr 29/06/2008 15:00:30
#108 Spot On!!! A great observation.
95

jake. F,

renfrewshire 29/06/2008 15:00:35
Publius Girvan - 104
Thats not the point - The point is that ASDA are trying to undermine the will of the Scottish Government.(your Government)
Although they are not breaking the letter of the law they would be breaking the spirit of the law.
Why are they doing this ? - For money!!!!!
96

Strangelet,

Glesga 29/06/2008 15:01:00
Want kids to stop boozing? Give them something to do/something worth doing. Drugs come out of boredom. This is a health issue, and prevention is the only way forward. Ask kids what they like doing and give them it (unless they answer 'bevvy' of course).

On a happier note, Asda want to take on the government - great. At last a test worth watching. Are the SNP Tartan Tories, or are they left-leaning (snigger) after-all? Let's see 'em take on WalMart -bring it on! I for one think the SNP will roll over to have its belly tickled by any multinational whenever they say 'roll over'. Look at Salmond and Trump (that's not a command!). Roll over, Alex! You're as pro-big business as the other three Thatcherite parties at Holyrood.
97

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 15:01:17
Lundavra # 108

Read the article again. ASDA is threatening no such thing.
98

Nikostratos,

29/06/2008 15:05:06
#108

No son you can't have a beer....But you can have this nice new Gun...........Blam!..blam!
99

Allan(handofgod137),

29/06/2008 15:08:01
#110 jake, the snp are not my government, I didn't vote for them.
100

Sanny,

29/06/2008 15:15:44
Perhaps a simple answer to this problem is to withdraw the liquor licence of any shop or company that breaches the law on sale of alcohol. If Wal Mart thinks it can by-pass the law by moving over the border so be it. We simply close all there shops in Scotland. Companies like these are driven by Greed – sorry Profit – Their shareholders will soon resolve the problem. Other supermarkets would be delighted to cooperate – no competition.

Personally do not believe that cost of alcohol is the main or a controlling factor. It is a question of Culture and access. I live 6 months of the year in Portugal. Here beer, wine and spirits are less than half the price in the UK yet in fifteen years I have never come across a drunken Portuguese teenager. Go to the holiday resorts and you will find plenty of drunks of all ages but of mainly British nationality.

Restricting access is only the start of a long process to change the mind-set in our country. This will require draconian rules and punishment until this is achieved. Alternatively we accept the situation as is!
101

Scottyboy007,

Glasgow 29/06/2008 15:16:40
The Supermarket chains are quite right. Its a stupid SNP Policy anyway.
102

jake. F,

renfrewshire 29/06/2008 15:36:32
Allan 114 - They are your government whether you voted for them or not.
(I didnt vote for them either but i can see the worth in what they are trying to do )
103

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 29/06/2008 15:41:19
While I happen to think MacAskill is taking the proverbial sledgehammer to the wrong nut, I also think that the supermarkets should realise that the discriminating shopper can buy the cheap pash, which masquerades as British beer or that which is brewed in the UK (EU-hhfh) under licence, cheaper in the better corner shops.

Also, If I was a young soldier just back after being away from my wife, the last thing on my mind would be a bottle of wine in front of the telly.

104

Brahann,

Fife 29/06/2008 15:46:52
#85 Ros

These are the governments figures. The fact of the matter is responsible sales on alcohol to our youth in off sales and supermarkets isn't happening. This will not stop students from having a drink in the uni bar etc. There needs to be some reality in the situation. the gov is trying something new to limit the access to alcohol by the youth in our society. This is at epidemic proportion at the moment.

If you have an alternative to help this problem please let us know....... Education won't work we are talking about a basic cultural change that will take at least a generation.... It took us one to get here in the firstplace!
105

Allan(handofgod137),

29/06/2008 15:49:06
Jake, read my post at 107, this would be much more effective than bans, price hikes ect.
106

The Tin Man,

29/06/2008 15:49:50
So, under the proposed legislation, a twenty-year-old would not be allowed to buy alchol at an off-license (unless they had a fake bus-pass), but would be allowed to have alchol on their posession, and would be allowed to consume alchol, and would be allowed to buy alchol at a pub.

Furthermore, everyone buying alchol at a large supermarket, rather than a small shop or off-license, would have to queue-up to pay for it at the tobacco kiosk.

Good greif. This will change people's attitudes how (apart from making people feel that they are governed by authoritarian nit-wits)?

Draconian alchol regulation and prices certainly worked in Finland?
107

The Tin Man,

29/06/2008 15:55:50
The SNP should know that something similar to their own long-term campaign for people's hearts & minds re. independence would be the best way to slowly change the Scot's attitude to alchol consumption.
108

Schot,

29/06/2008 15:57:32
My respect and best wishes to 93 Greenhilljohn for being honest with himself online. Remember, even if you can't quit any reduction is beneficial to your health and so should be viewed positively. So if you drink half a bottle of whisky where before you drank a bottle, don't feel like a failure for not being abstinent, recognise your own success and that will reinforce your will to further reduce.

I agree that the price of alcohol is less important than cultural aspects, like European children learning to drink in moderation at the dinner table. How many of us even eat around a dinner table though ? We are stuck with those differences in the short term. The fact is Scottish teenagers out drink the Scandanavians and out smoke the Dutch. As ever there is no single quick fix.

I would suggest the decriminalistion of cannabis here could cut deaths from alcohol significantly. I realise cannabis has potentially negative health and societal effects of it's own, but compared to alcohol it is benign.

As for Asda, nationalise their stores and turn the stores into sports and arts venues.

109

,

29/06/2008 16:25:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
110

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 16:32:43
#115 Sanny

ASDA is NOT proposing to breach the law on the sale of alcohol. It is NOT planning to sell booze to under 21's.

It IS planning to circumvent a local rule on the price of alcohol by selling via the net. Quite rightly !!

Selling booze on the internet is NOT new ! There are dozens of companies doing it right now. Why is everyone getting their knickers in a knot because Asda say they might do the same ?
111

brownlie,

29/06/2008 16:49:06
125 Colinmac

It would appear that Asda are merely being altruistic and would act solely out of concern for the poor in Scotland.
112

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 17:54:16
brownlie

Of course altuism doesn't come into it but if their only concern was the bottom line why would they not sell at the artificially high price ? Demand isn't so elastic that sales would be decimated !
113

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 29/06/2008 18:13:34
I do not care about the price of booze here. I do not care about the price of cigarettes here.

I buy my cigarettes abroad - just back from Benidorm with 20 cartons.

So, why do I have to go and collect my cigarettes from Spain when cheap booze can be delivered from England?
114

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 18:33:40
Jock, can you not get a Spanish supplier to mail them to you ?

or try http://uk.tobaccoonline.co.uk/cigarettes.asp
115

brownlie,

29/06/2008 18:35:38
127 Colinmac

I should imagine that the only reason super-markets sell cheap booze is as a loss-leader so that people are attracted to that supermarket because of its cheapness and, whilst there, do the rest of their shopping as well.

The only bottom line for supermarkets is to get your money out of your pocket and into their pockets.
116

Colinmac,

29/06/2008 18:38:47
Amen to that . . .
117

brownlie,

29/06/2008 18:48:11
131 Colinmac

Anyway, mine's a large Baillie's. No make that a very large one.
118

brownlie,

29/06/2008 18:54:37
133 AM2

Boycott out for 125 - Bowled Walsh, caught by Ambrose.
119

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 29/06/2008 19:27:49
129, Colinmac, because I enjoy a wee break subsidised by the savings I make as a smoker.

The other thing is the legality. I could point you to an online trader who sells from a bonded warehouse.

I'll stick to the straight and narrow, thanks, and sit on my lofty perch and slag the cross-border hypocricy between member states of the EU.

By that I was meaning the UK as a special case.
120

wolfette,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 20:02:58
we don't need supermarkets selling booze.

alcohol is now cheaper than soft drinks in many places - and that's just *wrong*. the local pub sells "burger and a pint" (Fosters) for 4.99. Small print says you can have a 14 oz Pepsi instead of the beer. Since a pint is more than 14 oz, that makes the beer cheaper than the cola.

I'm not tee-total, I'm not a killjoy - but do we really want to go back to Victorian days where gin was cheaper than food and much of the working class - including the children - spent their days legless and starving because they would rather spend the money on booze than food?
121

,

29/06/2008 20:07:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
122

Fanling,

Switzerland 29/06/2008 20:25:50
#19 Longdirk Maceth,NZ
Asking what I would do is unhelpful as many on this thread and related ones have answered that question. All anyone can do is suggest. Whatever my take on the subject, the problem remains until a political party with guts takes firm action. Against the scum, not the public at large. We all know something needs to be done, and fast. I repeat - against the scum.

Problem is that none of us is a politician, with the will to do something that would really satisfy the generally responsible law-abiding public. Somebody above mentioned locking the miscreants up and training a hose with cold water on them. All for it. That's a measure that would tick the boxes with most people.

Naming and shaming irresponsible parents seems like a too obvious approach, but parents certainly should be held accountable for the offspring they produce. Further - those parents and their offspring who are in receipt of state benefits should have then withdrawn immediately. They should automatically serve community service in a variety of ways.

Imagining that we can prevent kids getting their hands on booze is wishful thinking, sorry to say. Other posters above and beyond have answered that one adequately. It is illuminating that drink can be bought freely in most European countries, Norway and Sweden apart, and these countries have no significant problem with their own young. Same in Hong Kong Kong and mainland China. Scotland (and the UK as a whole) has a drink-to-get-drunk culture which has nothing to do with appreciation of the product. There's the difference.

#44 Danilo
"To Fanling,Switzerland: your comments show your level of intelligence!"

I'm impressed you that can actually recognise intelligence. Your comment "I would like to suggest to replece [sic] milk in babies' bottles with ALCOHOL!!!" neatly shows your level of intelligence. Block caps and a diarrheic dose of exclamation marks are no substitute for intelligence. Cheers.


123

Itchy,

29/06/2008 20:31:11
#72 what on earth are you talking about?

#136 "I'm not tee-total, I'm not a killjoy - but do we really want to go back to Victorian days where gin was cheaper than food and much of the working class - including the children - spent their days legless and starving because they would rather spend the money on booze than food?"

Who has suggested this? You are an idiot.

The SNP's proposals on the subject are just mean-spirited nanny-statist drivel worthy of the New Labour party
124

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/06/2008 20:38:01

SPAIN FOR THE CUP!

Lets,..'Drink' to that, if we can still Purchase some 'Drink'!
125

Fanling,

Switzerland 29/06/2008 20:41:02
#62 + 63 Boswall

I forgot to mention the "existing laws" argument from my post #138. You just reminded me, thanks. Many others have mentioned this too on previous threads. Why these laws are not implemented is anybody's guess.

Thanks also in #63 for pointing out the obvious to #55 MisterN, of "islamaphobic [sic] heart" fame, whose minimalist punctuation is a real challenge to the reader.
126

Kitti Kat,

PA 29/06/2008 20:50:37
How lucky you are to be able to buy booze of any price in a grocery store. In Pennsylkvania , the only place to buy booze, wine, etc. is in a state controlled shop. We call them "state stores". I am not a drinker but it would be nice to be able to purchase booze at the grocery should I want it.
127

Hamish Scott,

29/06/2008 20:50:55
This is a disgraceful move by Asda, if they carry this out they should be banned from operating in Scotland. This is the evil of Anglo-American capitalism.
128

Hamish Scott,

29/06/2008 20:57:33
One of Ghandi's seven social evils was 'commerce without priciples.'
129

Fanling,

Switzerland 29/06/2008 21:21:48
#142 Kitti Kat,PA

Some years back I lived in the US (FL and NYC). Not being able to buy my whisky in supermarkets, while I could buy wine, took a bit of getting used to. Mind you, American prices for Scotland's No1 product are incredibly cheaper than at home.

Even in Switzerland, Europe's most expensive country, whisky is cheaper than in Scotland. Now Scots politicians want further to penalise the law-abiding public for the misdeeds of the animal pack and their foul parents.

130

Hamish Scott,

29/06/2008 21:29:17
#145
The intention is to establish a minimum price of 35p a unit of alcohol. Thanks to the British and their taxes there is no danger of that affecting whisky prices. Indeed if you want cheaper whisky vote SNP and for independence.
131

Black Beard,

29/06/2008 22:55:29
I assume that's the before picture. Personally, I prefer the after pictures.
132

Sanny,

Upwey 29/06/2008 23:28:48
125 Colinmac
You misunderstood the drift of my comment. My suggestion was that if ANY outlet sold alcohol to a juvenile then they should lose their license.

For example, some years ago I sailed into San Francisco and I and a few fellow officers went for a drink with a 19 year old Cadet. The Barman politely but firmly refused to serve us. He explained that if he served us and we gave a beer to the Cadet then we would all, including the barman, be liable to six months jail. This is what I mean by draconian law!

I must admit as a 40 year old I did enjoy being challenged by a very pretty bar maid to show ID to prove I was over 21!
133

Matt there,

somewhere 29/06/2008 23:32:46
So the USA-owned ASDA chain is going to try to destroy the Scottish government, is it?

Tell us, do, Rob Chester, what will you do should the government in Scotland pull the license from all of your Scottish stores? Get the sack for making ASDA look stupid? I do hope so.
134

Conan the Librarian™,

29/06/2008 23:40:47
148
Sanny
I don't know how many years ago you went for a drink with your cadet comrade, but what if you had just come back from an action?
Somebody who can fight, kill/die for their country but can't get served in a pub is a rather stupid anomaly.

Mcaskill trying to start it here is a very bad move.
135

Charlie Ferrier,

New Plymouth 29/06/2008 23:47:10
I find it incredibly stupid of a supermarket chain threatening to bootleg alcohol into a country whose elected government has decreed a particular drinking age. What other drugs will you smuggle next ASDA Cocaine? Methamphetimine?

I'm sure tha American Parent company will be pleased to condone the law breaking ASDA is contemplating.

Of course the simple solution for the the SNP Government would be to revoke ASDA's license to actually operate supermarkets in Scotland and I'm sure ASDA won't mind the loss of profit cause their alcohol smuggling operation will be much more propfitable.

Really England needs to contemplate similar laws and rules. After all its a serious national problem.

The best solution of course is to tax the manufacturers of the alcopop products at source to encourage the direction of manufacture.

The manufacturers of alcohol have the same indifference to peoples health as do the tobacco manufacturers - after all they are both addictive and kill people
136

Buckfastleigh,

the Winery 30/06/2008 00:36:26
Please do buy my liquor; it's cheap, tonic and sustaining with just the right level of alcohol to get you going in a good political discussion. I'm quite prepared to drive my tanker to Berwick on Tweed by subscription if enough Labour supporters are prepared to take it by various overland routes onward to Holirood (or even by sea to Leith avoiding the revenue cutters) wrapped in Brown's paper to ensure adequate supplies make their way to their new leader. They can have it but they must not be stingy and offer it also to their political opponents. No to killjoys; yes to an upstanding toast for independence! Buckfast forever.
137

Royster,

30/06/2008 03:45:04
Couldn't they do a simple test in the northern English ASDA stores so that Scottish people do not get cheap alcohol? The buyer would have to say something like, "I really enjoyed that goal that Gazza scored against Scotland."
138

Lundavra,

Fort William 30/06/2008 09:18:46
quote
Colinmac,
29/06/2008 15:01:17
Lundavra # 108
Read the article again. ASDA is threatening no such thing.
/quote

Read my comment, I never wrote that ASDA were proposing to sell alcohol to underage drinkers in the UK. I compared with what would happen if a British company tries to circumvent an American law and quoted their restrictions on underage drinking.

139

Ally,

London 30/06/2008 10:48:53
Not a problem, Asda. Go ahead.

And good luck with the next time you submit a planning application of any sort whatsoever.
140

McOCB,

Wishae 30/06/2008 13:11:48
I remember a good few years ago going to my local offlicense on a Sunday to buy a beer. I was celebrating the demise of the Church's hold on my civil liberties.

You can probably guess, I'm strongly opposed to this authoritarian nonsense. Saying to a 20yr old, "son, you're simply not mature enough to buy drink in a shop" is a huge insult to the vast majority of responsible young adults.

I've asked before, and I'll ask again - how many MSPs bought drink in an off license when they were under 21? If they did (and I'm confident most did) - they're saying they are "superior" to today's young adults; even though today's young adults are generally better academically qualified than most MSPs.

Many years ago, the Police and the courts used to say "drink is no excuse". Feral youths, drunk and disorderly etc are not new. Give the courts and police back their ability to go after the minority of troublemaking families. Kids causing mayhem? Stop blaming drink. The local cops know who cause the problems, they're just not allowed to do anything about it.
141

jackal,

Glasgow 30/06/2008 15:58:33
Oh. Well ASDA, if that is your idea of social responsibility maybe we Scots should just stop buying anything at ASDA.
142

EK,

30/06/2008 17:50:31
I will stop shopping at Asda if Asda go against the government in this petty way. The government quite rightly aims to reduce anti-social drinking and we all need to "help" by accepting the new laws. We live in a community, so until the problem has been reduced somewhat, why not support the cause by drinking a bit less? Go and do some sport, drink water instead (remember the motto of the Salvation Army) and you may be a bit healthier because of it. You woon't die if you reduce your alcohol intake a bit. Anyone would think the governemnt were trying to poison you!
143

Abuelo chris,

Dalgety Bay 30/06/2008 21:09:38
The proposals appear to be yet another tax raising exercise on the whole population over the age of 18 years, rather than coming up with a workable way of stopping people below that age drinking in public. Why are all those people who do drink in moderation, do not cause trouble, going to be penalised. It will severely hit pensioners and lower paid people.
The law currently states that you have to be 18 years to buy or drink in public, to raise this to 21 years will alienate an awful lot of young (and old) voters at the next elections.
Young people, Soldiers, perhaps married with children, all under 18 denied the oportunity to take a drink back to their home or as a gift for their parents, in-laws, etc.
This is a nonsense proposal and should be ditched immediately.
144

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 01/07/2008 11:38:46
Empty threats from an irresponsible retailer.

I dont think it would be cost effective to deliver 6 packs of beer in Glasgow from a distribution center in Carlisle. Especially given current fuel prices.

Also there is nothing to stop the Scottish Government from banning the sale of Alcohol over the internet. You can't order ciggies from Spain.

The Scottish Government could also aid our Socially Disadvanteged Youth (Neds) that dont have internet access by setting up a free bus service to the local Asda in the town that hosts this distribution center. Buses will leave every Friday from all the deprived areas of Scotland to return on Sunday.

I am sure that the citizens of Carlisle and Berwick would enjoy hosting a weekly Ned Fest in their local Asda's parking lot.
145

Issy,

02/07/2008 00:01:28
ASDA - what a disgusting attitude to take.
This country is on it's knees and one of the biggest problems we have is alcohol abuse.
Cheap alcohol sales in supermarkets and shops are part of this problem - drink is too easily available, accessable and affordable. It is up to government - both Scottish and British to take whatever steps it has to to stop the rot that alcohol is causing.
ASDA and the likes are responsible for an awful lot - supermarkets use all sorts of ploys to encourage us to spend to the detriment of our health and well-being - never mind our budgets!
146

Angus McIonnach,

Embra 02/07/2008 18:41:16
Actually this could work!

So, we know that the dumb proposals on booze punish everyone for the anti-social behaviour of the few: because the SNP dont have the cohones to introduce measures targetting the actual problem.

BUT: if people with more money can avoid the punishment by buying online, then the poorer sections of society are properly targetted. It's still a stupid scattergun policy that unfairly hits lots of people, but not as many as it would otherwise do. Bravo, ASDA.

 

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