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Sex lessons must start at age five



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Published Date: 30 December 2007
SEX education lessons should be given to schoolchildren as young as five as part of a bid to combat soaring levels of teenage pregnancy and sexual disease, Scotland's most senior public health doctor said last night.
Dr Charles Saunders, chairman of the British Medical Association's Scottish consultants' committee, warned that schools were leaving the safe-sex message so late that many teenagers were already exposing themselves to avoidable risk.

Saunders also called for secondary schools to hand out condoms and other forms of contraception to children from the age of 13.

His comments are the most radical call for reform of sex education in Scotland ever to be made by such a senior doctors' leader.

Last night, parents' groups gave Saunders' remarks their cautious backing and the Scottish Government said it was up to individual schools to decide when to begin sex education. But the Catholic Church in Scotland said it would oppose any such move, describing it as "pointless".

Scotland's sexual health record is one of the poorest in the western world. Teenage pregnancies are on the rise with 9,040 in 2005, the latest year for which figures are available, compared with 8,891 in 2004. Cases of sexually transmitted diseases are also rising. In April to June this year, Scottish laboratories saw 4,715 cases of chlamydia – up 6% from 4,468 in January to March.

Saunders, a consultant in public health medicine at NHS Fife, said: "It needs to start at quite an early age, because if you leave it until they are 12 it is too late because some are already experimenting. It probably needs to be started off when children start school. You need to start laying the groundwork to help them and empower them to make decisions and turn things down.

"At five it needs to be a language that they understand and taught in the same way as any other subject. It would be basic mechanics at that age in the same way as you teach a child of that age a tiny amount about geography, a fairly superficial introduction.

"It should start off with relatively simple concepts in the same way as English and science start off with the basics. It could start off with how babies are made and progress from there."

He added: "You need to start somewhere and it makes an awful lot of sense to start long before it's needed, because if you leave it too long you are wasting your time.

"Basically sex education needs to be a whole lot better. It's not just anatomical drawings but what the risks are from infections and what the pros and cons are of having sex or waiting.

"It's not a simple task to get young people empowered enough to use condoms, but it's the key. You want to ensure people are not having sex when they don't want to have it, and that when they do want to have it they are not putting themselves at risk."

Saunders added that all schools should also provide contraception to pupils. Currently contraception is on offer at a small number of schools.

He said: "Particularly in rural areas, schools may well be the only way that pupils can access contraception.

"It may well be that as time goes on it would make sense to have emergency contraception in schools."

The Scottish Government allows local authorities and head teachers to set their own sex education policies, provided they are deemed appropriate to the age of the child and parents are happy with the subject matter.

In the majority of cases children do not learn about sex until Primary Six or Seven, when they are 10 or 11. They are not taught about the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases until secondary school.

A school could introduce sex education in Primary One, provided parents and teachers agreed it was the right move.

Judith Gillespie, development manager of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, said she was undecided about whether

five was the appropriate age to begin sex education, but she recognised Saunders' concerns.

She said: "We do have to step up our sex education, but if they want to move forward with this they can't just take it into schools, they have to have the support of parents.

"Sex education is an area where schools have to approach parents, and parents have the opportunity to veto it. We need to have a concerted information campaign so that parents understand it."

A spokesman for the teaching union the Educational Institute of Scotland

said: "While it is sensible to examine ways of improving the quality of information available to pupils, we must always take full account of the concerns of both the parents of the children concerned, and the teachers who are expected to deliver sex and relationship education."

However, a spokesman for the Catholic Church said five-year-olds were too young to understand sex.

He said: "When children reach puberty they are able to assimilate information about their own sexuality but they are just not ready at five. It's way over their heads and would be as pointless as giving a five-year-old a talk on alcohol. At the age of 15 it's a different matter."

Public Health Minister Shona Robison

said: "We expect all schools to teach sex and relationships education and we expect them to consult parents about the content of sex and relationships education programmes.

"Any sex and relationships education needs to be appropriate to the age and stage of the pupils involved. Younger pupils might start learning about the broad idea of relationships, and family and friends, for example.

"We are not persuaded of the need to provide emergency contraception on school premises but do want to ensure that such services are available and are accessible in other local facilities."

The full article contains 977 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 December 2007 12:10 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 30/12/2007 00:07:22
"Saunders also called for secondary schools to hand out condoms and other forms of contraception to children from the age of 13."

Great, the good parents try hard but this person wants to hand out invites to UNDERAGE SEX, I wonder how much time is spent by people in positions of power thinking about underage sex?
2

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 30/12/2007 00:21:04
Yes, I agree that something has to be done, but sex education at the age of five? A five-year-old has no sexuality and could make nothing of it. The hormones are not present, because the relevant glands do not start to secrete them until the age of puberty. Granted, the onset of puberty has been coming down the age scale for years, but this is going a bit too far.

3

HMB,

Glasgow 30/12/2007 00:24:10
Withhold all public benefits from teenage parents. Leave them and their families solely financially responsible for their offspring. You want to reduce teenage pregnancies, stop offering financial incentives and rewards.
4

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 30/12/2007 00:24:17
Dont agree with this...5 is to young to take in that kind of information and kiddies that young will just ignore it anyway cos its boring...what nonsense...put the money into chipping pedophiles or advanced technology to track the barstewards.....
5

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 30/12/2007 00:25:51
4....then watch the crime stats go up as teenage parents go on the rob.....
6

Rabster,

30/12/2007 00:31:18
Those who have read the article and not just the headline might appreciate that what he's suggesting is a long term approach, starting with the basic concepts at an early age, so that children are equipped with the knowledge that will enable them to deal with puberty when it arrives. Nobody is suggesting graphic sexual education and condoms for 5 year olds. Controversial maybe but hardly deserving of being tagged a left-wing idiot.
7

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 30/12/2007 00:31:44
To qualify the above, factual description of the business of procreation, if given as a straight answer if and when the child asks, and without raising the subject specially, will be accepted by a young child like other forms of factual knowledge. As a case-hardened father and uncle I know that this can save embarrassment at a later age.

8

Shamus,

Glasgow 30/12/2007 01:06:08
The Catholic Church, Tony Blair and the Archbishop of Westminster should be put in charge of public morality. Doris Karloff can keep the minutes! Sherie can advise on the Law!
9

Scullion,

Canada 30/12/2007 01:22:11
#4 Hard rules make bad laws.
Education rather than interdiction is always the best way.
How many of us, despite O levels and university educations, have been locked in the heat of passion where a purple haze blots out all logic and thoughts of any consequence that the next 10 minutes might bring. If you haven't, then you haven't lived and cannot comment on the matter. This article points to a solution which mirrors the motto of the Boy Scouts, "Be Prepared".
10

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 30/12/2007 01:34:17
7 Rabster, that's all 'very-well', but we all know,
'very-well' its not the case!
"Saunders" wont be teaching anything to our children!, it will be left up to local schools, that will have their 'Mad-Hatter' opinions on how this so called sex education will be taught, some may try to be 'radical' and 'pull-out-a-condom' in front of 5year olds, don't say it 'wont happen', because it WILL!
TMI for a 5year old! and WONT stop "teenage pregnancy"
11

tomi,

30/12/2007 02:26:06
Sex education for 5 year-olds?

What happens if this "educated" child's natural curiosity leads him to practical expiramentation with a less "educated" child who does not want to be his Ginnypig?

On the sex-offenders list at 6 years old??
12

Aoda,

USA 30/12/2007 03:03:16
It was this kind of thinking that caused the rise in teenage pregancy and diseases. Now you want to extend it to young children.

Dr. Saunders, you are one sick person.
13

MichScot,

USA 30/12/2007 03:46:43
They have done that here, but more like 1st grade (age 6). My daughter calls our town the "teenage pregnancy capital of Michigan", and not without reason. It really has much to do with the parents' approval or disapproval of unmarried pregnancy, but there are still problems even in many of those families. We have been lucky so far. She is 21.
14

W Smith,

Middle East 30/12/2007 04:31:07
Wasn't it Clinton who managed to see a decrease in teenage pregancies in the US when he put a stop to generous social security benefits?

1) The number of single mums has increased by 25% in Scotland since Labour came to power.

2) Girls brought up without a dad are more likely to lose their virginity earlier.

So Labour, with their we-know-better social engineering have helped create this disaster with this 'progressive' and 'modern' socialism.

This has produced almost identical results in Cuba which has an unusually high number of young single mums.

Well done Labour for making sure more Scottish kids grow up in dysfunctional homes.

15

Far East Arab,

Japan 30/12/2007 05:25:43
Having worked at the sharp end of this topic, as a Youth Worker in a secondary school in Dundee, I have seen the effects of uneducated teens having sex. Its time for the Catholic church to butt out of what does not concern them. We have been adhering to their dogma concerning contraception for the last 100 odd years and I think its pretty plain that the church's "Ostrich Stance" does not work. Teenage pregnacies have been on the rise for the last 25 years and sticking your head in the stand and obstinately sticking to your out dated premise has not eased the glut of unwanted, young pregnancies. I don't know when we should be educating our children, all I know is that we HAVE to educate them and educate them now!! I know of countless cases where girls have had multiple abortions by the time they are 16!! Others have been forced to leave school and care for a child when they are nothing but children themselves. Parents shouldn't fear this, for it is working hand in hand with all good parents teaching, however it is putting it out there and that is what parents fear, that their child may become aware of sex as a result....I'm sorry but most children already are aware of sex thanks to todays instant mass media. The time for action is now, before its too late.
16

Patriot from Scotland,

Strachur 30/12/2007 05:26:00
Did Scotland on Sunday find it necessary to give this guy house room? Did you check if he has a disclosure certificate before letting him loose with this nonsense?
17

,

30/12/2007 05:46:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Trojan Horse,

Scotland 30/12/2007 05:51:02
The more we talk about sex the more it will happen.Humans are spiritual creatures and the Catholic Church must redouble its efforts in this matter.
19

Trade-wind,

USA 30/12/2007 06:04:26
Please, please, please!!!
listen. if it is on the rise that means that before this they were not having as much sex. Why what was different then that has now changed. We do not need sex ed. we need parent ed. Parents used to be responcible people who talked to their children. The parents of today are children of parents that did not give enough attention to the raising of their children. It has been going in that direction for hell 40 years or better. Each generation has gotten just a little less up bringing from their parents. You cannot expect the State to do your job. Parents need to be held accountable for the upbringing of their children. Keep the state out of the business of raising kids. They are terrible nannies. Oh God nobody gets it any more. Parents don't want the bother of raising the kids they foster, then those kids want just a little less responcibility and on it goes. Scotland wants independance and it people can't even find time to raise their offspring. How sad is that. Good luck!
20

Trade-wind,

USA Just a foot note 30/12/2007 06:20:38
I am over here and have no choice. It will be at least ten more years before I can possibly come home. I am so sick of reading about our youth having babies, killing others, getting fat and on and on. Once proud to hold myself up and proclaim myself a Scot over here. If oor country keeps going doon the wey it is I wouldnae want to stand oot here. Your becoming worse than the Hootsman!
21

Kenny A,

30/12/2007 06:33:51
5 years old is a bit young, and I think childern would start to experiment if they were told what is involved, even if they were not overly sure what it was all about. 11 may be a more appropriate age, some will already be feeling the urge but many will just be about ready to learn about what these feelings are all about.

What buggs me about this article is the fact that if this proposal went ahead , what next, childern are exactly that and they need a time when they can behave like childern.

A little bit of education, a touch of discipline and care and guidence from the parents, to much to ask for.


Probably
22

abiding,

So. Lake Tahoe 30/12/2007 06:40:33
I have a degree in Early Childhood Ed and have worked with kids off & on all my life; I have been step-mom to twins (boy & girl); I have been surrounded by children in both personal & professional life; and am involved in my own ongoing education and research, as all worthwhile educators are. No 5-yr-old is going to understand a lengthy, specific explanation of a perfectly innocent "where do babies come from?" Any educated teacher with a conscience will not force something on a child's mind that the child is not ready for, whether it be the birds 'n bees, or the aerodynamics of how planes fly. That said, parents have to stop abdicating their responsibility and influence as parents, or more Dr. Saunders'es will be taking the reins over and trying to force their misguided notions of child development on unsuspecting parents. Also, what exactly is meant by "emergency contraception"??? Is that where schoolkids in the grip of "the purple haze [of passion]" can run to the nurse's office for a quick supply of condoms to use in the football stands at lunchtime?
23

Vincent-W,

30/12/2007 07:26:54
This article, and many of the posters, make the simplistic and incorrect link between formal school based sex education and early pregnancies.

Research suggests that the influence of specialized sex education programs are probably less important than the influences of family, local culture and mass media.

The key is the cultural influence around growing children, with a media and culture that continually glamourizes sexual behaviour and a large proportion of parents who behave like animals on heat, is it surprising that kids grow up having sex before they are ready for the consequences. And if you think that Mrs MacTavish at the local Primary School talking about relationships and sex is going to have a big effect against these wicked influences you are kidding yourselves.
24

fife runner,

30/12/2007 07:57:32
the sex education merely talks of sex as being purely mechanical. It misses out the holistic approach such as relationships and morality. It seems the pc brigade think this a bad idea but their ideas have failed. My wife teaches in a secondary and to a person, her senior pupi.s are all sexually active. They took to discussing it during a maths class much to her annoyance and thought it would be funny to try and make fun of one of the boys they thought a virgin. My wife then asked why is this a bad idea to be a virgin to which to her surprise one of the boys said I wish I still were.

Here in UK we seem to have this peer pressure on such matters including alcohol. I listened to a group of Dutch teenagers a few months ago and they would never dream of talking about such matters in this way. Also, if they thought on of their friends was engaging in risky acts, they would confront them. They see no difficulty in moralising why should we.
25

fife runner,

30/12/2007 08:04:03
even the atheist writer Dawkins thinks the sex instinct is not limited to reproduction. We focus too much on the mechanical. If others think I am moralising too much then my reply would be you have failed.
26

Phil241106,

Airdrie 30/12/2007 08:20:40
All of the morons who do not live in the UK and who agree with Saunders .."Stay out of it!" The UK is the worst-off place in Europe for sex-related problems...thanks to the legal rulings of our governments who listen to the many 'Saunderslings'. Let's get back to basics where parents took responsibility for the upbringing of their children in areas of sex education, morality, respectability etc. rather than living their own selfish lives. Where are the parents while their children/teenagers are getting into trouble during the early hours and some, sadly, being injured or worse?
Until parents act as parents, we'll continue to have the wrong answers with well-intentioned, but godless, idiots wasting their time and our money by trying to make a world safe without the God-given answer of parent responsibility and basic Christian living.
27

,

30/12/2007 08:43:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

thinking,

Scotland 30/12/2007 09:01:04
'Scotland's sexual health record is one of the poorest in the western world'
I wonder why that is? could it be because of the'sex education' which says it is OK as long as you take precautions?
Where abstinance is taught, teen preganancies and sexually transmitted diseases have been greatly reduced.
This is not about religion, as many teaching abstinance are not doing it on religious grounds but on commonsense grounds.
We need to stop telling kids that life is about sex but that sex is a part of a much wider life.
29

Vincent-W,

30/12/2007 09:09:25
#29 - you're correct - I wish the media would stop sexualising every aspect of our lives

Also what we aren't told is the real effectiveness of condoms - properly used they are only 97% effective, in 'teenage fumble zone' this can fall to much lower figures. Actually the only 100% effective way is the word 'no'.
30

Robert from Oz,

Brisbane, Australia 30/12/2007 09:40:29
I was shocked at this suggestion. I have a 7 year old daughter who loves to read about fairies, trolls, believes in Santa Claus, is learning about Jesus and God in school and is innocent.

What this will do is take away the innocence from many many little children. We all know how inquisitive our little ones are. I know if I am pulling my PC apart my daughter will come on sit with me and ask a million questions on what all the bits are. And this 'intellectual' is proposing that we put this information into their thoughts so early in life.

We need to protect our children and protect their innocence.
31

Upbeat,

30/12/2007 10:08:38
Until there is a sensible and refreshing discussion about what form the education of five year olds should take, in regard to sexual matters, this remains an appalling concept in Scotland, or even the UK.

It is the British tradition that adults regard sex as being something that should not be discussed openly. Those who do "stoop" to flaunting their sexuality are somehow naughty...if not immoral. This has created a nation totally repressed, that sends confused messages to all children.

Hardly surprising therefore that children muddle up ideas that sex is something adults do and enjoy, with ideas that it is immoral and bad. They are quite justified in their conclusion that adults are only trying to stop them enjoying themselves doing it, by claiming that it is naughty. Seen all around them sex is like forbidden fruit, with all that urgency. The message about the responisibility of sexual relationships is what is missing here.

So it is not a question of simply explaning to five year olds the mechanics of sex, as suggested above. It is a question of explaining the consequences of interfering in another person's right to choose what is best for them. The health risks and the morality along with the mechanics of it all can be introduced at a later age.

32

Calum Crubag,

30/12/2007 10:27:55
I can't believe that the Catholic church, or any church, has the right to opinionate on this matter. The Bible after all is the book that teaches we should mutilate our sons' genitals. God almost killed Moses because he refused to circumcise his son. Does this sound like good morals?

Whether or not 5 years olds should be taught about sex should be decided by edcationalists and health workers. Not by followers of superstitions. Children experment anyway. How many of us did not have a natural curiosity about our sexual organs? The last thing we need is a church - with a shameful record of child abuse - telling us this is 'sinful'!!

Chairman Gordon - left-wing? Please explain. Maybe it's you with the political agenda?
33

Boy Wonder,

30/12/2007 10:30:30
5 is too young. Personally, I think 8 is the age to start introducing sex-lessons. Having said that, the sex-education you get in schools is a mess, mostly because of government and religious intervention.

You have to be prepared to be honest, forthright and all-embracing with the little darlings because they can and will ask the hard questions.

Don't forget, you might not like it but your son or daughter could grow up to be gay ... whatever you do, don't forget they're your child and no matter what their sexuality, you must love them every bit as much as the straight kid and teach them that what's normal is whatever is normal for them, no matter what other idiots think or say. We've seen enough tragedy in that particular sphere of sexuality.

As soon as you spot your child has started m*st*rb*ting ... that's the time to talk about where and when and "not in public, darling!" Explode the myths and introduce the concept of responsibility. Above all ... be honest and open. Otherwise you may come to regret it when your 12 year olds are responsible for a new life.















34

JG,

Fife 30/12/2007 10:31:29
We need to stop sexualising children. A 9 year old is not a sexual being - sure, they can buy clothes in the shops so they can look like whichever scantily clad group happens to be popular at the moment, but they don't have sexual inclinations. There does need to be more education in schools about it though - and the "abstinance" approach of the Catholic Church isn't going to work (grand concept though it is!). Get people who know what they are talking about into the secondary schools - tell the kids about contraceptives, STDs (grossly on the rise recently), tell them about how girls having sex at a too young age can raise the risks of contracting cancer and tell the boys about their parental responsibilities (and enforce these responsibilities should they father babies). And I wouldn't rely on the parents giving accurate information to their children - I remember what my parents told me - NOTHING!!!!
35

Archie, Gourock,

30/12/2007 10:32:13
Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who discussed sex with my kids or worse still was complicit in their statutory or otherwise rape would firstly face the biggest kicking ever meted out and more inmportantly, I'd fight to my dying day to ensure the full weight of the law was brought down upon them. I don't care who you are or what you are. My kids, my rules.

Who would do less?
36

Boy Wonder,

30/12/2007 10:33:10
Apparently the full word of 'm*st*rb*ting"' is potentially unsuitable on the Hootsmon board. God greif ... what are we? 4 year olds??

I for one find this kind of Victorianism completely obj*ct*onable ... or could I have written that in full??
37

albanman,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 10:46:55
The much lauded "Healthy Respect" programme has been in Scottish PSE classes for almost 10 years - and has not made ANY appreciable difference to the sexual behaviour, pregnancy rate or numbers of abortions. PSE classes teach about contraception, STIs, condoms and a whole host of things - to little or no effect. At a recent workshop put on by the promoters of this programme I asked if there was any difference in the sexual behaviour of students from Catholic schools (which have a less 'in your face' approach)and non-denominational schools (in which I teach). After some moments of very clear embarrassment and mumbled comments, the final answer was "No"; thus, the very presenter of the programme admitted to its ineffectiveness.

In my PSE classes we speak a great deal about being respectful, waiting for the right time and person, as well as the practical stuff about sex; but why is this not working? I truly care for the well-being of my students, and believe they see that is the case; so why are the sessions 'wasted'? To me, the answer is alcohol; many of our school children drink on a worryingly frequent basis. All the preparation in the world regarding waiting/respect/condoms goes out the window once they have had some drinks. As for the number of drunken teens and adults on our streets....what a terrible example for our children.

Supposedly, our UK youngsters are the least happy in the E.U. in spite of being amongst the most finiancially affluent. Perhaps we should look to other E.U. nations which have different attitudes to alcohol, discipline and family life; their children are apparently happier. We need to find out why, and follow suit, because what we are doing in Scotland is not working.

As for introducing sex education to 5 year olds: what utter nonsense.
38

C.U. Jimmy,

30/12/2007 10:49:21
Must admit, if I'd known at 5 as much about sex as I know now, then life at primary school would have taken an entirely different direction... though I probably wouldn't have learned much about anything else.

Seriously folks, this insane government has an unstoppable (unless you vote them out) desire to take over responsibility for ( = to nationalise) childhood. Then it will use our kids to denounce the rest of us. Read '1984' by George Orwell for more. Happy New Year!
39

Gordon,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 10:53:02
Government policy on many things has affected the teenage desire to multiply.

From the introduction of discounted council house sales, we find that the only way to get offered one was to be pregnant - so this was the way to go for many girls who didn't want to stay around their parents. Now even these cannot be guaranteed housing, but once a trend starts...

The changes to tax laws, benefiting those who were taxed separately, and even those who live apart, encourage the demise of the "family unit".

Low pay and part-time work mean that parents either work excessive hours, or decide to stay at home where they are better off on benefits!!

The answer is NOT to give more sex education, but to change the taxation system, so that parents can afford to work (even in the lowest paid jobs) and still have time to spend with their offspring. (Being too rich and busy can be just as bad as too poor and lazy)
40

Capital C,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 10:54:43
Why is it that whenever anyone mentions sex education and children everyone panics?
Forth Valley NHS and the local councils have produced a fantastic resource for schools to introduce "sex" education in their primary schools "FEEL - THINK - DO".
The programme involves teaching kids to recognise feelings (fear, pleasure, uncertainty etc) the kids learn to take the time to think through these feelings before deciding what they should do.
Sounds very simple but in Scottish Education its trail blazing.
Stop worrying about a five year old knowing that their wee thing is called a penis and his sister's flower is her vag*na (they won't let me post the word!!!!!). They're only words and made taboo by our own "moral" outrage.
The Catholic Church (and any other religious organisation) should be barred from any discussions on education. They all get their chance to brainwash kids at sunday school!!
41

Kipling,

30/12/2007 11:05:26
Forget about the religious views on virginity. Virginity should be praised as a rewarding state (for health both physical & emotional) which should be kept until both sexes become of age, that is eligible to lose their life in the army, working and contributing to society (who will in turn give financial benefits when you're a mum or a dad). This is a practical view of the virtues of being a virgin. It would also teach the benefits of patience. To alter slightly a quote by the american author Barbara Johnson:

"Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping to your gears"
42

Edgar,

30/12/2007 11:15:48
41 says "The Catholic Church (and any other religious organisation) should be barred from any discussions on education. They all get their chance to brainwash kids at sunday school!!"

Among the groups that have been consistently cut out of this over the years is religious groups and specifically the catholic church. In other words the ones you want barred are the people definitely not responsible for the present situation. Yes, let's instead continue with the same failed philosophy, promoted by the same types that have brought upon us the present shambles.
43

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfropolis 30/12/2007 11:16:55
Hmmm did nobody else get the 'Peter and Penny' books back in the mid sixties, or was I the only one with pervy parents?

I knew all about human reproduction, front bottoms and spuunk monkeys at the age of six and didn't do me or my eleven children any harm...

Perhaps we should go for the chastity programme so popular in the USA where kids end up substituting penetration for ear sex...
44

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 11:46:21
I total agree with #31 the kids don't need sex education at 5 years old as a child sex is not on your mind playing with toys and with there friends is all that there is on their minds we do not need some Grinch to come along and burst their bubble of innocence and awe.

HEY TEACHER LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE!
45

Kipling,

30/12/2007 11:47:46
#44. Your 2nd para. doesn't make sense. You had 11 children at the age of 6? Or should it have been age of sex?

3rd para. Tollyboy of England and La Ceinture de Chastete of America, who are the manufacturers of stainless steel chastity belts, are perhaps unaware that another market area to exploit exists. They could take a lead from the headgear worn by the soldiers of these islands in ancient times or even present-day security guards. Preferably those with a licence and clean record.
46

scottish person,

paisley 30/12/2007 11:58:39
Oh great not only will we have the most unmarried mothers in the world but the loony perv left are going to achieve the most unmarried mothers trophy. When are these sexual deviants going to be gagged. Real parents should put an end to this perversion. Think what you like about the catholic church but this will not happen in a catholic school.
47

Lex Luger,

Perth 30/12/2007 11:59:46
Childern have been and are continually being sexualised by the society in which we live, from the clothing they are encouraged to wear to the content on "kids" tv programes and everywhere else. I find it amazingly perverse that the solution being proposed to preventing more child pregnancies is to tell them all about it sex from an early age and then distribute contraceptives to these same kids without the knowlege of their parents. Did anyone see the Queen's Christmas message? She stressed the importance of the family units and family values, teaching sex education and self respect is the responsibility of PARENTS and should be taken care of at home by parents, it's a delicate matter not for the classroom where it is treated largely with contempt.
48

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 30/12/2007 12:03:36
#46 Dear Kipling, thank you for critique, in my haste to commit my wit to page I neglected to add the words 'this knowledge' between the words 'and' and 'didn't'. The word 'subsequent' although possibly superfluous in the context may have assisted those who thought I sired eleven offspring at the age of six.

Re the third paragraph, I imagine ear plugs would suffice from a contraceptive perspective yet also halt the possibility of prolonged and likely painful aural sex.
49

Gothic Rose,

30/12/2007 12:21:07
My daughter was around 4yrs old,when she made enquiries as to where babies came from.Take it from there.Or,you can always say, that they are found under a gooseberry bush.!!!
50

GrannieM,

30/12/2007 13:32:11
My opinion- teen pregnancy became rampant when sex ed was started being taught in schools. That was many years ago. Kids are curious, they wanted to see what it was about. And, if it is taught in school, it must be ok.
I believe parents are the ones to teach thier children, as they see them mature enough to handle it. During a discussion with my granddaughter when she was 16-17, I told her only one teen pregnancy during my 12 years of school, and what a scandal it was. She was amazed as in her school it was an every day occurance.
As to telling a five year old all the details, I cannot believe it was even suggested. At that age, my mum told me the doctor brought babies in his black doctors bag. I was happy with that. Television, movies are teaching our children the wrong attitude toward sex.
51

shivago8,

livingston 30/12/2007 13:53:40
Something must be seriously wrong with that man,s head suggesting that five year olds should start sex education.
We keep a lot of things from our kids and sex is one of them.
For anyone to suggest sex to 5 year olds is a starter that he has a sex hook up and he would be happy to see 5 year olds male and female talking openly about there bits and pieces but you cannot touch until you are 16.
The man is bonkers and should either be placed on an ASBO or locked up.
I know what I would do or tell him if I caught him near my grandchildren
52

Shamus,

Glasgow 30/12/2007 13:56:35
For adults to deny knowledge to children that could prevent disease and teenage pregnancy is a disgrace.The RC Church should have no say in the matter. Its just the nunbers game with them. The taxpayer has to pick up the tab in benefits for single mothers. The government has to act responsibly.
53

Calum Crubag,

30/12/2007 14:06:22
Pope Gordon - why should a doctor's views on sex education label him as left-wing? Do you know this guy?

I know of a school in Stirling where a Primary 2 girl (6 years old) got her first period. I think some of the auld blawhards here should listen to doctors and educationalists and find out what's happening. Children, due to environmental pollution (hormones in food etc) are becoming 'mature' earlier. Apparently the average age for girls first menstruation in Scotland in now P5. It's only fair that they know what's happening.

AS to children being sexualised. Ironically, Gordon, it seems as if it's right-wing papers and media that promote this the most. 'Dirty' Desmond's Daily Express empire also include numerous porn titles. Then there's Murdoch.

So, the churches think children of 5 are too young to be 'sexual'. Stop circumcision then and tell it to your priests.
54

Aleksi,

Aberdeen 30/12/2007 14:34:44
To me, five seems far too young - I believe perhaps, if we are to start early on this education, eight should suffice.

It is also a very strong belief of mine that sexual orientations need to be introduced at the same time as the rest sex education, provided adequate consent is given from each pupil's parent(s) to avoid any serious controversy.
I recieved as-good-as-no education into orientation throughout my entire time at school, and it wasn't until the last couple of months that I realised that the fact I did not desire sex, and felt no sexual attraction, was not because I was a 'freak' or somehow 'broken'; but because I was an asexual.
If anyone wants more information on asexuality - as it's something that's never taught and rarely heard of, please do visit www.asexuality.org.
55

drake's drum,

North Britain 30/12/2007 14:38:28
These poeople are off their trolleys.

As a primary teacher I know the subject of 'sex' doesn't even enter their heads until about age 10 or 11 (thankfully!) and even then in a very innocent way.
The problm is most of all caused by parents letting them watch the filth on Eastenders, Coronation Street etc., and adult movies in their own rooms, because that is where they get the ideas from, they DO NOT suddenly get the idea some day while playing with their WWE wrestlers and think, hey, let's get somebody up the duff!
For once, though it pains me to say it, the Catholic Church is absolutely right. Just with so-called 'drug education', you don't give a kid a loaded gun and then pretend to be surprised when they fire it.
Let's all grow up, act like adults, and treat children like children.
Read the Bible, it's got answers for most of our problems - all quite simple really!
56

Quiet John,

Tinley Park 30/12/2007 14:41:07
This seems all wrong. But perhaps five year olds learned as much when they worked on farms.
57

Kate Barr,

GLASGOW 30/12/2007 14:43:25
Why is it that the "ones on high" and those with all the power always seem to think they know what is best for us. When will it be that parents take the bull by the horns and stand up, use their intelligence and teach children that underage sex is wrong. We know that children are becoming bodily mature earlier these days, why are most parents afraid and too embarrassed to teach their kids about pregnancy, birth, childhood and growing to adulthood. Why do they let their embarrassment stop them from teaching their children the "facts of life" it is they who are responsible for imparting these facts to their offspring not teachers - who in most cases look about 15 years old and do not have any experience of life outside university and colleges where they learn teaching.

Perhaps if parents took their responsibilities more seriously their would be less unwanted pregnancies now. Discipline has been taken from teachers and parents and it seems as though it's the brain damaged and mentally ill who have taken over the asylum. If we don't waken up and use our brains to elect people who will do the correct thing for our futures we might as well give up and commit hari kiri !!!
58

Aleksi,

Aberdeen 30/12/2007 14:47:50
drake's drum: The thing is, these children already have the loaded gun, so to speak, and it's only a matter of time until the majority do what is their innate 'programming' and get curious about it.
The question is, do we tell them not to fire it, and risk having them do it anyway; tell them what could happen if they fire it, and then leave it up to them; or do we ignore the fact they have it and then act surprised when things happen?
59

Capital C,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 14:48:39
#58

Are you really a teacher? If so I hope it's not at my childrens school!!!

"Read the Bible, it's got answers for most of our problems - all quite simple really!"

Please please tell me your joking!

No-one outside the bible belt of America can possibly believe in the virgin birth, adam and eve and all the other fantastic nonsense borrowed from other ancient cultures and neatly compiled into a book by people who thought women second class citizens and homosexuality a crime.

Or can they????
60

Capital C,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 14:58:02
#51 and 56

Chairman Gordon,

What a friendly chap you are! Refering to me as chum when we've never met, how splendid, are you free for tea? After Mass of course!

I profess to being a little bemused by your logic. You assert that because a medical professional worked a council you deem ultra left wing then he must be a loony lefty!

I once worked in a shop where the owner was a Muslim does that mean I pray facing east?????
61

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 30/12/2007 15:01:10
I reckon my kids (except one, she is only a few months) knew the mechanics of sex, so to speak, and the the consequences thereof by around the age of 4 or 5. What they didn't understand is the feelings behind said mechanics such as why do people want to have sex etc or why do people fall in love etc.

They didn't know these feelings as, as mentioned before, they don't have the right hormones as yet. However, kids being bright and inquisitive, they are receptive to being taught at that age (or brainwashed, call it what you want). With that in mind, we try to teach them morals. Simple morals like wait until you find that special someone and, dare I say it, get married and do the right and honourable thing like mummy and daddy did.

However, I would like to reserve that right to teach my kids and not allow the schools to do it as they cannot provide the correct environment i.e. to teach them is a secure family environment. The schools are likely to do it in a clinical fashion which, in my opinion, isn't right.
62

Capital C,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 15:09:15
#65

Gordon, have you considered the number of kids growing up who are being sexually abused. Such kids often believe that their abuse is "normal" as they don't have any other experience to compare it to.

Now imagine the kid being given the chance to get out of that life......

Too progressive for you?
63

thewitness,

30/12/2007 15:50:56
There is always a good reason given, then there is the real reason! This creaton should be REMOVED from his job immediately! Scotland must stand up to the growing band of corporate bully fascists. This man should not be allowed to come into contact with children. The big pharma fascists are a direct threat to your childrens health. Read this online book (below) then tell all your friends. You will then know the right course of action to take when your brainwashed Dr suggests that it's a good idea to inject your child with live cancer viruses, you can say, take a hike!

Merk drug company vaccines admits injecting cancer viruses:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=327_1195303011

Murder By Injection by Eustace Mullins
http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=16&db=3&C0=1

MURDER BY INJECTION explains how the ruthless Rockefeller Syndicate - under the control of the world financial structure, chiefly the Rothschilds - plays the major political, health and educational roles in the world.
64

CourtGolf,

Atlanta, GA 30/12/2007 16:05:45
THIS is the kind of moronic thinking that happens when academics and politicians are allowed to roam free. People who have never had a job in the public sector because they couldn't possibly handle the real world are constantly telling people how they should live their lives.

Maybe there is some way we can rekindle the Scottish spirit that stood up against English tyranny in the days of William Wallace - and couple that with the colonist spirit that did the same thing in the Revolutionary War - and turn it towards our own governments.

From the US Declaration of Independence: "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
65

Capital C,

Edinburgh 30/12/2007 16:07:31
#67

Sadly it is very difficult to prevent it, but if a child knows that an adult (or an older child) shouldn't be touching them in a certain way or place then maybe we can help them put a stop to it?
66

Centurion2,

Glasgow 30/12/2007 16:22:54
Until promiscuity is recognized and emphasised as the primary cause of the spread of unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease, there will be no improvement in the dreadful sexual health and abortion statistics in Scotland.

At the present time there are more contraceptive devices and "sexperts" than ever before ,yet the appalling statistics continue to rise.

The Scottish Executive's Sexual Health Strategy at no place in its preamble or text contained the words Promiscuity, Fidelity, Love nor Marriage and, until the authorities redress their laissez-faire attitude to sexual behaviour, their will never be an improvement in the sexual health of Scotland.
67

John1,

Stirling 30/12/2007 16:51:34
2: Spot on.
7: Plain wrong
18: Which religion advocatees pre-marital sex? There are a few, but not in the civilised world.
Your recommended approach ignores the devastating effect on lives of living only by basic instincts with no intelligence involved.

'Scotland's sexual health record is one of the poorest in the western world' says the article. And the solution is more of the same policy which has manifestly failed over the last 40 years? There are none so blind as those who will not see. When I was at school, MORALITY was assumed and advocated, and today's 'norm' of teenage sex barely existed. I am particularly disappointed that there is no mention of this in the reports of the Catholic Church's comments. And who are these "parents' groups" who give "cautious backing" to this ludicrous idea? If I still had children at school I would seriously consider taking them out to get them away from the hedonists who have taken the schools over and want to brainwash unformed minds.
68

Calum Crubag,

30/12/2007 16:56:17
Father Gordon - sounds like you're talking about right-wing 'libertarians'. Sounds like you are a true 'soldier of christ' if you think 'progress' is wrong. Certainly, an East German friend of mine did not get sex education at 5 in her Communist schooling.

Gordon, keep taking pills and fingering those rosaries.
69

Chris Yost,

Eau Claire, PA, USA 30/12/2007 17:05:11
At 5, a kid doesn't know was sex IS. Nor is he or she going to be able to understand what they're talking about. Parents should be jumping-ugly about this; not only is this something that they themselves should be teaching their kids but the schools should get their collective heads on straight.

Schools should provide contraception. Sure, makes perfect sense. Instead of teaching abstinence, which works every time it's tried, "well hell, we all know you're all just a bunch of little minxes. So here, take this condom and protect yourself."

So, the idea is to teach sex to kids who don't know what they're talking about, and to encourage promiscuity by handing out condoms to teenagers. Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.

But not to worry. For all of the 15-year-old new mothers out there, the government will just create a program to help them! And to pay for it, they'll just raise taxes. Makes me glad I'm here.

Oh, wait. That's going on here in a lot of places, too. Yoi.
70

,

30/12/2007 17:07:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
71

thewitness,

30/12/2007 17:14:06

The Scottish Executive has no business being involved in healthcare. The Executive should have only 1 priority and policy at this time and that is to REMOVE the control of the nations currency ie The issuance of money and credit from a PRIVATE UNELECTED group of communists/criminals ie The Rothschild Bank Of England, to the peoples governments of Scotland, England and N Ireland through Independance. This sole policy would CURE all social problems in UK, every single one of them with the flick of a pen.

Change the money, change the country!

There is no such thing as teenage parents, just parents, all national treasure. The term teenage parent is just another label to demonise people INVENTED by the criminals who will soon be on the run,
without their ill gotten gains built on 200+ years of lies, war, social meddling, drug peddling and usury.
72

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 30/12/2007 17:17:08
That dreadful photo is totally inapproriate by the way...it smacks of 'The Sun' or some other quality bog roll....who thought up that idea?...get a photo of some kiddies holding hands and make it look like they are obviously doing the nasty....appalling !
73

Himself,

Aberdeen 30/12/2007 17:32:27
So if we are worst in the western world, and need to teach children about sex from the age of 5 onwards, at what age do countries with the best record start sex education?
74

Lanna,

30/12/2007 17:50:37
#77 Doreen,
hows yous? :) Agree with you at #5,6. As much as you think cutting off the funding would send a cold wake up, they would just resort to robbing.


#35 Howdy JG,
good comment. (any travels lately? :))

#25 Fife runner,
good comment
75

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 30/12/2007 17:52:15
Good afternoon to Charles Linskaill and Boy Wonder

I agree with what you both have to say and think it ridiculous that the moderator(s) will not allow the word "mast&&b$$e" on these forums. Are we living in the Victorian age or is some holier-than-thou killjoy maning or womaning the moderators' desk(s)?

I think the age of five is a BIT young to start sex education but age eight is about the age when children start to express their innate sexuality be it straight, gay, or otherwise.

If these children have the PROPER sex education done with professionalism and clarity and patient understanding perhaps Scotland AND some other countries will not have these explosions of STDs and young girls pregnant at 11 or 12 or 13.

But don't expect the male Catholic priests to be part of this sex educations because they are SUPPOSED to be celibate and what would they know about sexual urges - unless it applies to their unnatural affections for altar boys or "special friendships" between them.
76

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO BC Canada 30/12/2007 18:20:58


I think a lot of commentators here must have lived rather deprived lives.

I'm old at 77, yet sex is still the most important thing in my life as it has been virtually every day since I started enjoying it at around age 11.....although I was 'exploring' for a couple of years before, WITH NO HELP AT ALL FROM MY PARENTS SCHOOL OR ANYTHING ELSE EXCEPT MY OWN OBSERVATIONS.

Sex is the MOST IMPORTANT feature of human life!
Where is there a man who has forgotten the rapture of his first successful sexual conquest?

To avoid the dangers and pitfalls associated with sexual activity kids must be groomed and trained for it!
What Olympic athlete wins without training and skilled advice?
77

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 30/12/2007 19:35:38
81 scotsdoc, "To avoid the dangers and pitfalls associated with sexual activity kids must be groomed and trained for it!"
But NOT at 5years old!
Anyway I see we have been all 'very-good' girls and boys, on here today! NO comments removed, not even our BW's!

To reiterate my comment, the whole idea is,
'Nut's just 'Nut's'!!!
My two girls never had sex-education at 5years old, never got pregnant at 13years old and are,
'Happy as Larry' (so to speak) one married now and one in a steady relationship!
What does that tell you?
All it takes is reasonable parenting! and if my DYW has our Baby/Babies, it will be second time round for me, and I wont let any 'Jack-ass', tell me how to educate or bring up our Children!!
78

Young Pretender,

New Mexico USA 30/12/2007 19:52:01
I learned about AIDS in 1985 when it hit the news in the USA. I was nine. At age 10 schools here teach kids about their bodies, how they work, and what to expect over the next few years. (But not "how to.") When I mentioned this to a group of 15-30 year olds in Scotland they were horrified that I'd had sex education in school at all. Of course, they were most interested when I could clear up their wild misconceptions of how AIDS, STDs and Babies happen. For all you Scottish parents out there: your kids believe that AIDS is spread by toilet seats and that you won't get anything else unless a penis enters a v agina. Have you set them down to explain not only how these things happen but also what they do to a person and their symptoms?

Perhaps a standardized, graduated, sex ed curriculum that teaches kids about their bodies, social pressures, and what -exactly- can happen if they have sex isn't such a bad idea. At 5 schools should start with "girls & boys are different" since that's where kids are at anyway.
79

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO BC CANADA 30/12/2007 19:57:37

To 'Charles Linskaill,.Edinburgh' May I say arguing from the particular to the general is a commonly made mistake in science??

As for sex at the age of five....I had the living daylights knocked out of me at age about 4, when my father caught me playing with my 'twinkie'( if direct words are not permitted) in the bath. I didn't know what the beating was about....but I did know it had something to do with TWINKIES!!!

AND FROM THAT DAY ON I NEVER TRUSTED MY FATHER!!!
80

Sambo,

The deep sou