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Salmond weighs in with new hope for Scots cycling after Hoy's attack

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Published Date: 21 August 2008
ALEX Salmond has pledged the Scottish Government will look at the case to fund major new cycle training facilities around the country in the wake of Chris Hoy's Olympic gold-winning exploits.
The First Minister said there appeared to be strong arguments in favour of building new tracks to complement Glasgow's planned national indoor velodrome.

And he offered hope to campaigners battling to retain a cycling facility in Edinburgh the day after the city's Olympic hero launched a fresh attack on plans to demolish the capital's ageing velodrome.

Mr Salmond said he would offer a face-to-face meeting with Hoy to discuss how to improve Scotland's cycle training facilities and respond to criticism that the nation would struggle to produce the next generation of medal-winners without major investment in new facilities.

Hoy has attacked the prospect of Edinburgh losing its cycle velodrome in favour of the new facility in Glasgow. No new track is planned as part of the redeveloped Meadowbank Stadium, where Hoy trained early in his career.

A new indoor cycling velodrome had been planned as part of a major new sports complex in the Craigmillar area of the city, which received £6 million from the then Scottish Executive in 2004.

However, the following year the city council had ditched the new velodrome after agreeing to support a new national cycling arena in Glasgow, which was part of the city's Commonwealth Games bid. At the time council leaders in Edinburgh pledged they would look at creating a replacement outdoor cycle track, but since then the plans have come to nothing.

Councillors voted in March to demolish the existing facilities at Meadowbank, including the cycling velodrome, and build a new sports complex on the site.

But Hoy has launched a series of attacks on the council, the latest just minutes after winning his third gold in Beijing.

He accused it of not producing any plans for a new cycle training facility in Edinburgh. He said: "Elite sport cannot stand alone without local facilities giving kids the chance to get into the sport in the first place. I really hope Edinburgh is going to continue to produce world-champion cyclists in the future but we cannot do this without a local facility."

However, Mr Salmond said: "We have to remember Scotland will be getting a brand-new indoor cycling velodrome in Glasgow in time for the Commonwealth Games, which as a country we don't have at the moment, and there are currently only two other such facilities in Britain.

"However, the whole question of training facilities does seem to be an area worthy of further exploration. Although the new facility will be capable of hosting international competitions, we need to look at the case for a series of other facilities around Scotland."

Steve Cardownie, the capital's deputy council leader, said: "We do want to build a new training facility, but it's likely to cost £2-3 million, and we'd obviously need external assistance to pay for it."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 August 2008 1:26 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Chris Hoy
 
1

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 21/08/2008 03:11:02
The legacy from the Commonwealth Games of 2014 should be grass roots facilities, the provision of these grass roots facilities starts not when the games finish, but now the start date is March 2009.

Chris Hoy said it all, when he said "Elite sport cannot stand alone without local facilities giving kids the chance to get into the sport in the first place”


What did the local authorities of Scotland do with the £580 million, which they received from the Executive in Edinburgh over the previous 5 years to provide sports facilities? That was the question put by Audit Scotland; we still are trying to find the answer.
2

,

21/08/2008 03:13:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

William of Liberton,

EDINBURGH 21/08/2008 03:47:34
First thing the Scottish government needs to do is adequately fund commuter cycling for school pupils and adults so that everybody has access to, and uses, cycle facilities of a standard comparable to those provided in continental cities and towns.

The more "ordinary" cyclists there are, the greater will be the number eager to take up cycling as a sport.
4

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 21/08/2008 04:17:55
thad a boy W Smith, feel better after your daily rant about them mooslum luvin pesky gants?

You'll be one of those bloated western types that have moved to Dubai for the sun whilst loathing the locals?

Anyway, how dare AS try to capitalise on Scottish success eh?, I think he is doing it deliberately also!
5

Soup kitchen,

21/08/2008 06:02:14
Whenever Salmond put *his* 'weight' behind anything then that's some moment of inertia dawning.

It's not priority number one right enough, but as it's on teh front page I suppose he needs to try and get his photo in the paper, maybe eating a sausage or handing a cheque for £400,000 over to Islam.

How did the (ex?) SNP councillor get on who took his children on holiday to a terror training camp btw?
6

Geoff,

sa 21/08/2008 06:36:54
Wow- Alex S used the "B" word and with a capital B!

Also, what about the needs of Gay Muslim Cyclists??
7

Geoff H,

Fife 21/08/2008 07:04:42
4. Fair point

3. & 6. Blinkered nonsense
8

Geoff,

sa 21/08/2008 07:30:51

9 Rules-or Tiddlywinks-Pogo Stick biatholons?
9

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 07:35:33
#3

I guess you are one of those ex-pats who, despairing at the loss of Empire and the ever-increasing influence of the Muslim religion, decided to emigrate to get away from it all.

Only, not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, you chose to go to a Muslim dominated region and surround yourself by those you appear to resent so much.

Unless of course, by the Middle East, you are referring to perhaps Bridgeton, with the Far East being represented by Baillieston?

10

Anecdotal,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 07:36:50
So if smug wee Eck is still around in 2012 and a Scotsman/woman wins 3 gold medals for shooting will he then say he is going to ensure there are shooting ranges all over Scotland?

Instead of building a new velodrome in Glasgow for the Commonwealth Games why not rebuild the facility in Edinburgh and us it just as they are doing with the RC Pool?
11

Me, myself and I,

Livingston 21/08/2008 07:41:52
If there was an Olympic medal for cynical headline grabbing step up to the podium Mr Salmond.

Money no object for the headlines of new housing or a velodrome but curiously as missing as a Barbados skier when council workers go on strike.

Are you and team Broon in the same bunker swapping tips?
12

tommy M,

21/08/2008 07:42:25
what a shame the liebour politicians spent more time thinking about how to line their own pockets in power and sqaunder money on illegal wars and Trident than to improve Scotland's sports facilities, hospitals, schools etc

Thank Goodness we now have a Government here in Scotland that puts Scotland's interest first.
13

AJ Fife,

21/08/2008 07:55:29
As per usual, Mr Salmond shows inspired leadership. His finger is never far from the pulse and Scotland can look forward to investment in all the right areas!

14

eric,

Lothian 21/08/2008 08:01:33
The national velodrom is being built in Glasgow so what.
Just built a regional version here for local kids can get interested in it.Sorted!
15

Scudder,

Glasgow 21/08/2008 08:02:57
For Christ's sake Alex ,, it's a bloody minority sport ... OK so the boy Hoy "done good !" but get your priorities and OUR money to where it's actually needed ?
16

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 08:14:32
#3 The SNP have never given £6 million, or anything close to it, to a "gay group". Would that they had - it would still be a drop in the ocean compared to the funding given in kind via the tax system to the religious nutters who promote hatred of gay people.

There are an estimated 500,000 gay people in Scotland, and we pay taxes just like the rest of you. So if the SNP ever did fund a support group to the tune of £6 million (and I stress it never has done) then it would be entirely justified.

As for the meat of this story, Salmond, ever the populist bandwagon-jumper, appears to have failed to realise that his own party is in coalition in Edinburgh. How pathetic that he should try to get his face in the paper on an issue in which his own party is guilty of cutting the facilities.
17

Marga,

Fife 21/08/2008 08:14:38
Raise the profile of biking with public bike hire. Cheaper than velodromes (and trams) and open to all.
18

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh. 21/08/2008 08:19:00
#12 - We already have shooting ranges all over the east end of Glasgow.
19

brownlie,

21/08/2008 08:20:17
9 Rules

Is "synchronised Buckie/Lanliq drinking" going to be a priority for you in your one-man federation?
20

roughrider,

Glasgow 21/08/2008 08:30:25
3 W Smith,Middle East.
You are one sad wee turd.
21

donald,

glasgow 21/08/2008 08:32:46
Scotland has not been the same since Oor Wullie stole PC Murdoch's bike.
22

puskas,

East kilbride 21/08/2008 08:35:10
No15..

Your few words say it all.

Progressive Government led by Mr Salmond our First Minister and cabinet.

As the truth enters the public domain the unionist are shown up funnier than spitting images. Broon and cohort's highland jig is fascinating as the script to independence develops by the day.

Obviously although unionism is becoming a minority, further education is still a necessity as shown with the comment boards..
The runaway train to independence is accelerating. Some correspondants tend to be a wee bit backward but we needn't bother as the luggage is no greater than the equivalent of a ladies compact case.





23

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/08/2008 08:36:24
#3 "THIS HAS BEEN NOTED SALMONDY BOY."

Oh no! You mean you're not going to vote SNP next time? He'll be shocked and devastated.
24

Richardinho,

21/08/2008 08:37:22
'Scotland has not been the same since Oor Wullie stole PC Murdoch's bike.'

funny, I thought that picture of Chris Hoy aged 10 was the absolute image of Oor Wullie!
25

jdships,

21/08/2008 08:38:40
14 tommy M,

Ah but AS is catching up fast on how to be a real "politician" !
Has his finger firmly on the pulse of Scottish opinion and is quick to grab the "high ground" of "headline grabbing"
Proving he is no different to any other political animal - as many expected .
Long way to go yet for "Fat Boy Eck" !!
26

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 08:44:13
All of this does seem to be something of a populist reaction to one great sportsman. Chris Hoy is a cyclist - so let's build lots of velodromes. Surely the issue is to develop a range of suitable sporting facilities in various places. How do we know that our next great Olympian is not going to be a swimmer or a skater?
27

watcher4,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 08:52:59
All of a sudden Salmond is British. What exactly has the SNP done for Sport in Scotland in the last year? What have they done different from the Socialists?
Note the Nats silence when there is British events on the Telly.
28

Boy Wonder,

21/08/2008 09:00:32
#23. Donald ... borrowed is the word you're looking for ... Oor Wullie "borrowed" PC Murdoch's bike!!!
29

Liz,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 09:03:53
#15
You are hilarious! :)

#24
So this is not a cynical headline grabbing ploy then? Where was Mr Salmonds support for cycling before these Olympic Games?! I sincerely hope we do not get all carried away with velodromes and cycling facilites and forget that there are many many other sports that could do with a bit more support from our esteemed Scottish Government.
30

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 09:07:01
The success of the GB cycling team is a classic instance of the Union dividend so often dismissed by the SNP. The amount of money invested in this success would simply not have been feasible for an independent Scotland. Chris Hoy's success is fantastic, but it is the result of hard work from the whole team GB over many many years. Take that out of the equation and Hoy would have been a gallant individual struggling against the odds.
31

Nethan,

Shanghai 21/08/2008 09:08:56
What about the about the deplorable state of the Glasgow international arrivals hall. Who is responsible for that scruffy place? Is it BAA?
32

Doh,

21/08/2008 09:09:29

This is not a time for sound bites.

Salmond can feel the wheels of history turning.

But in the real world it makes sense to build the national velodrome in Glasgow since they are hosting the Commonwealth games.
33

Alastair the First,

21/08/2008 09:11:46
18 Duncan:- you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about this issue, frankly. And as for your estimate of 500,000 homosexual people in Scotland, your cause is not helped by trying to overestimate the situation. The figure of 10% that you bandy about is a gross exaggeration - scientific studies suggest a figure of around 2.6% is more like the true picture. Base your claims on reality and I'm sure no-one would grudge you a fair share of the cake.
34

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 09:19:19
#36 I simply responded to a typical lie from someone who sees gay people as an easy target. I make no apology for continuing to do so. You yourself have expressed homophobic views in the past, so I'm not surprised that you want to make out that I have a "chip on my shoulder" and thereby downplay the validity of my point. I'm not going away.

Even at 2.6%, £6 million would be a drop in the ocean - and is still a fictitious figure.
35

Linda,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 09:24:33
Problem with Meadowbank is that for last 20 years it was neglected by the Labour run council.
Having said that the outdoor velodrome is outdated and a new indoor velodrome is required but on another site.
36

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Tram City 21/08/2008 09:31:08
why does everything have to be about gays.Why should they get special treatment just because they are gay.
its all about me me me.get real you lot and get a life
37

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 09:40:22
#39 Who's asking for special treatment?

This thread had nothing to do with gay people until #3 made a false allegation about money being given to a gay group. I make no apology for responding to it. Your attitude is unhelpful and it looks to me like you deliberately took the opportunity of the subject being raised to throw in your own unfounded allegations.
38

Geoff H,

Fife 21/08/2008 09:41:35
39 Joke comment, surely?
39

Geoff H,

Fife 21/08/2008 09:45:10
43

Correct.

Perhaps we should have boxing rings on every other street corner like in Havana. Cuba seems to produce it's fair share of quality boxers.
40

Alan B,

21/08/2008 09:46:36
#Duncan in Edinburgh

While i support independence i do not have a problem with a british team in the olymics. Much the same as the Irish will participate in the lions at rugby.

However your rant at #33 that Hoy would not succeed unless scotland was within the union is the type of thing that shows the lack of confidence and psycological issues that underpins scotlands problems. That makes me think that any support I have for a british olympic team is wrong and scotland really needs a completely clean break to deal with these serious psycological confidence issues that seems so prevailent in scottish society.

People like Hoy achieve because of their own determination and talent. Bit like Murray in tennis. What he has done so far is despite government intervention (both north and south of the border) or the setups within the uk. With Muuray actually developing himself in spain.
41

thomas ferguson,

21/08/2008 09:51:44
baw 2 faced salmond jumping on the bandwagon to get a headline as if he will do something,yes if it get me a photo call and 10 votes "i am listening" go away and do the job you were elected for to try and run the country
42

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 10:01:26
47 Alan B
How can you possibly say that what Chris Hoy has done is "despite the setups in the UK". Chris Hoy himself is on record as paying tribute to the coaches, medical staff, engineers, physios etc. and support staff at the cycling centre in Manchester as the "best in the world" Also it cannot have escaped your notice that the GB cycling team in general dominated the events. The support staff and engineers had obviously given the team an advantage. The so-called "squirrel" bike they use perhaps - designed by F1 engineers and unique to the GB team

I agree that Chris Hoy has demonstrated extraordinary determination and talent but to deny the assistance of others and state that he achieved "despite" them can only be viewed as churlish.
43

Senga Jean,

21/08/2008 10:06:49
There is so much personal abuse directed at Mr Salmond's appearance which indicates to me,a student of human success and failure,that Mr Salmond must be very ,very successful. He is obviously a doer and not a whinger. I think he might not be an Onionist perhaps?
44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 10:09:19
#52 Salmond's implacable opposition to onions is well documented.
45

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 21/08/2008 10:10:47
These grandiose ideas for the elite and privileged youth of the central lowlands are all very well but surely the first step should be to ensure that sports facilities - however basic - should be available to everyone in the country.

Right now, tens of thousands of children across rural Scotland live more than a 60 mile round trip from a public swimming pool. However you look at it, that must be a national disgrace. We pay considerably more per capita in indirect taxes than city dwellers and often earn considerably less.

Why should we continue to subsidise Edinburgh, Glasgow and Inverness to such a high and unequal level?
46

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 10:15:12
#47 Firstly I would like to stress that I did not say that "Hoy would not succeed unless Scotland was within the union". I said that without the immense effort and investment (and ruthlessness) of team GB Hoy would have been a gallant individual struggling against the odds. He could well have won that struggle. My point was that team GB, the millions spent, the ruthless approach to removing anyone from the team who was not focused solely on winning, and the sheer dedication that was enabled by the world-class team of coaches, is something that can be rightly identified as part of a "Union dividend".
47

Miss H,

21/08/2008 10:17:31
You people are all so naive. Read what he said. He has not promised anything and has obviously been responding to questions asked by the press in response to Chris Hoy's attacks.
48

Geoff H,

Fife 21/08/2008 10:22:03
49

My point exactly.
49

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 10:22:21
On the subject of funding for sport please consider the following :
Rebecca Adlington receives a grant of £8000 per year from lottery funds. As a gold medallist from Athens in 2004, Chris Hoy receives rather more - £24000 per year.
Many footballers receive several times more than this in one week. Now compare the attitude, dedication etc. of the two Olympians with that of top footballers who can rake in millions from the public's insatiable desire to buy cheaply made replica strips at exhorbitant prices and other sources of money. Perhaps, if the public reduced its obsession with football and took more genuine and consistent interest in other sports more funding would be available.
50

George Mackay,

Dundee 21/08/2008 10:23:03
27 jdships

You're right about fat boy Eck. Salmond would kill himself if he went for a bike ride in a velodrome. isn't it funny that Scots die earlier than nayone else and we have the fattest political leader.
51

Geoff H,

Fife 21/08/2008 10:25:59
61

Thanks for that wonderful contribution.

Did u think all of that up for yourself?
52

Alastair the First,

21/08/2008 10:27:01
37: I haven't expressed any such views. I have however pointed out that "homophobia" is the incorrect word to use in the manner in which it is commonly used, as phobia means "fear of". It is one of those perjorative terms that are thrown around by the politically correct. For some reason you take exception to anyone pointing that out - I am not intending to be offensive (if I wanted to be offensive, you'd soon know about it!). You are over-sensitive and seem to see insults and prejudice where none exist. Anyway, as said above, a bit off topic!

As for your ridiculous point that these medals are part of a union dividend - why not go the whole hog and have a "team EU" in that case? No doubt you are against Scotland having a Commonwealth Games team...
53

Alan B,

21/08/2008 10:35:14
#Ugly George

People are interested in the sport they are interested in. The idea that people should stop being interested in football is not going to happen. Why should it?

I do think the media have a role to play. It is only when the media start putting the athlete or sportsman on the front or back page that people with notice him/her. It is only when that athlete is invited on to some show and/or interviewed say by the news programs. With a better public profile, that will attract private sponsorship. For instance how many people would recognise Nicol the guy who was number 1 in the world at squash. The olympics is atleast giving guys like Hoy a public profile.

The fact is apart from once every 4 yrs with maybe the world championships and europeans few of these events are spectator sports.

Whereas with football it is the number 1 spectator sport. I find myself personally not that interested in the olympics. Used to be in the 80s early 90s but could hardly name an athlete now, whereas i would avidly follow events run by the Wells, Coe, Ovett, Thomsom, Cram, Thomson and their side kicks, aswell as the other international ones like Lewis and Moses.

54

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 10:38:49
58

Agreed.

Given Salmond's record thus far, we need to look at the detail at what he says.

What does "further exploration" really mean? Is it 'yes' or 'no'?

Edinburgh needs a (preferably covered velodrome). Other sites are also required in Scotland.

For if it unacceptable for Scots to have to travel to Manchester, it is unacceptable for people from people from Perth, Dundee etc, let alone Peterhead and Aberdeen, to have to travel to Edinburgh or Glasgow.

In basking in Chris Hoy's limelight and pointing out what these successes mean for Scotland, Salmond (and all other politicians) now has/have a duty to back these words up with action.

58 points out why we need to be cautious about what Salmond says.

Who knows, perhaps (ha!) this time his words will be more than just soundbite, have more than just a hollow ring to them.


55

,

21/08/2008 10:40:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
56

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 10:42:01
64

Glad to see an acknowledgement of the Union Dividend.

Even if it is loaded with a caustic remark on Obree.

Taken further, this of course could be applied to many athletes and many sports, and not hust Scots cyclists.



57

Boggle fey the Bog,

21/08/2008 10:45:32
13 Me, myself and I,Livingston 21/08/2008 07:41:52

What is a a Barbados Skier, is that some sort of CockTail@

Surely wou mean Barbadan or even Barbadian.

As for being 'missing' when the 'cooncil wurkers' are on strike, you should be asking the question of Cllr Pat Watters (Labour South Lanarkshire) who is president of that fumbling body,known as CoSLA, which is the LA's Employers Federation, who apparently didn't feel it neccesary to contact the Trades Unions, before the strike, to see if they could avert it.
Do I smell sleaze and conspiracy, from the Trades Uniions and Nu Labour/Owld Torie trying to 'engineer' 'Industrial unrest' to discredit the lawful Government of Scotland.

Naw of course not, Nu Labour/Owld Torie an the Unions urnae that sleekit, ur they?

And as for Eck promising tae look in tae buldin mair bike facilities , then good oan him, and while he's it it he could also hae a look at the state o' oor ice rinks, and athletics tracks in general.

Theres plenty o' 'Lottery money' oot there fur the takin, aw we've goat tae dae is huv a plan tae spend it!!!
58

Buspass,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 10:46:31
Let's hope Edinburgh does rebuild Meadowbank Velodrome for the third time, and does not forget what they omitted on the first two occasions - namely a roof.
It will last longer for a start.
59

Alan B,

21/08/2008 10:46:39
#50 Ugly George

My issue was more regarding the fact that this thread was about sport facilities in Scotland. However Duncan had to try make it about a cheap jibe about a union dividend. I just find that abit pathetic in the same way he is irritated by ani gay sentiments by an earlier poster.

As i say i do not have an issue with a british olympic team while still supporting independence. With most things there can be advantages and disadvantages to either a scottish team or a uk team. While as you point out there can sometime be advantages, disadvantages can accrue when a scottish sportperson is overlooked for a less talented one from england as has happened a few times. The 2 situations i remember would be 1)where a female scottish badminton player with a higher ranking was overlooked for a lower ranking english player a few years ago. (i remember the fuss about it). It was supposedly due to the fact the english badminton association has a target of so many players from england within the uk team and they used there greater voting power to elect the poorer player. 2)was when a scottish runner was overlooked for the relay event despite being faster than the 4th member of the relay team selected. This was based on the fact the 4th person was london based and could train more easily with the other runners.

60

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 21/08/2008 10:47:08
For those who are quick to dismiss the role of Team GB in any of the Scottish achievement - look west to the oft cited independence role model.

Just how many medals has Ireland won?

The funding the UK puts into sport dwarfs anything a small independent nation could produce and that's just fact.

Those Scots that have done well are quick to acknowledge the support and facitlies available from being part of Team GB and are quick to give credit - it's a shame those of nationalist persuasion can't see past their own prejudices to do similar.
61

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 10:47:27
47

"People like Hoy achieve because of their own determination and talent. Bit like Murray in tennis. What he has done so far is despite government intervention (both north and south of the border) or the setups within the uk. With Muuray actually developing himself in spain."


Support could have been better, clearly. That said, Hoy has openly admitted the part the Edinburgh velodrome has played in his success.

I remind you that Murray received £1.5m financial assistance from the, ahem, "British" LTA.
62

Ugly George,

edinburgh 21/08/2008 10:48:23
66 Alan B

I agree with you - people will interest themselves in whatever the fancy. The problem is, in essence, cultural. The point I was trying to make is that that the public needs to face up to its own accountability rather than saying, once every four years, lets get the politicians to spend more on sports facilities.


63

Gordon, Canonmills,

21/08/2008 10:50:58
The so-called "union dividend" works both ways.

As far as I'm concerned, the presence of the unionista flag and the absence of the Saltire make me less inclined to be interested in the Olympics.
64

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 10:53:31
71

I stand to be corrected, but weren't some of Dundee's sports facilities built for holding major events but on construction, were found not to be conducive to holding them?

I daesay this is the case throughout the country.

One example is the oddly-named Olympia pool on the waterfront. Built to great fanfare only to be turned down for holding events cos it isn't the proper size.

It's soon to be bulldozed, and replaced. Hopefully they have learned their lessons.

65

,

21/08/2008 11:03:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

Alan B,

21/08/2008 11:10:40
#76 Ugly George

Completely agree we should spend more on sport facilities. All parties have been very poor at this. Would be beneficial if scotland/uk could become more sporty (in the form of participation) like Australia.



67

Alan B,

21/08/2008 11:18:26
#78 Scottish 'N British

I agree we need good (better) sports facilities.

I just think it is silly to try to turn olympic success this into a debate about the constitution. If you arguing for or against the union, sports facilities etc are not relevent.

As for Murray as far as i know he only got the money from the LTA after he had made it. The thing that helped him on his way up was going to some facilities in Spain where the now world number one was training.

68

AJ Fife,

21/08/2008 11:24:30
SoB #74,

I'll remind you that Scotland's No1 didn't receive LTA backing until he was an established ATP player. Plus, the deal also included Brad Gilbert being used as the LTA's national coach!

Once again, you're being economical with the truth! Typical Onionist characteristic!
69

Geoff,

sa 21/08/2008 11:27:11
77 Gordon Canonmills-theres lots of Saltires at the Olympics-look at the composition of the Union Jack Gordon-St George,St. Andrew and St. Paddy!
70

Deamhain,

Aberdeenshire 21/08/2008 11:33:34
Now, since this piece is actually about a politician, I'll make a remark based on same.

I thought a bandwagon looked different from a bike. Maybe Mr Salmond has got them mixed up because he seems to have jumped on the former.
71

Duncan in Edinburgh,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 11:37:35
#81 It's entirely natural that this turns into a debate about the constitution, because the SNP are a single-issue pressure group and Salmond's approach to every single issue is to identify ways in which it can be used to drive a wedge, pick a fight or mislead the public.

Thankfully there are a growing number of people who can see right through him - to counteract the effect of those like AJ (did you get your GCSE results yet?) who slavishly congratulate his every utterance.
72

Geoff H,

Fife 21/08/2008 11:41:09
84

Ok then, on topic.

Hoy makes a complaint about facilities after his win.
The First Minister responds.

And now he's 'jumping on a bandwagon'...



It would seem that those that have a dislike of our First Minister will damn him if he does and damn him if he doesn't.
73

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 11:47:45
#86 The problem is that his response was essentially dishonest. He either agrees with the decision made by his party (in coalition with the Lib Dems) to scrap the velodrome in Edinburgh and not build a replacement - in which case he should say so honestly and justify it - or he does not - in which case he should say so and put his money where his mouth is.

All he has done here is deflected the question and tried to grab some of the glory. And you're surprised that people are unimpressed?
74

Gordon, Canonmills,

21/08/2008 11:48:47
# 83 Geoff, SA

Naw, the "butcher's apron" is too cluttered. I can't identify with it at all.

On the contrary, the sight of it is antagonistic.

I long for the day when once again the flag over our capital's castle is plain blue with a diagonal white cross. No vertical/horizontal white cross, no red ...

Won't be long now!
75

The Tin Man,

21/08/2008 11:49:07
I hope we are going to see plenty of pictures of Salmond cycling to work every day - Boris and Cameron have done a lot more for promoting cycling than our teletubbie FM.
76

The Tin Man,

21/08/2008 11:50:30
I hope that picture of Salmond has not been digitally altered to make him look less fat... The mind boggles.
77

AJ Fife,

21/08/2008 11:50:54
#85,

No need for that Dunc. I haven't insulted you for ages!

I'm chuffed to read that you think my posts have an effect! :)

Must keep up the good work.........
78

European Scot,

21/08/2008 11:51:22
83 Geoff

Good morning Geoff !

" theres lots of Saltires at the Olympics-look at the composition of the Union Jack Gordon-St George,St. Andrew and St. Paddy! "

I'm afraid the Union flag will never be identified as a Saltire, people tend to see too much red for it to be ever taken as such !
As mentioned before, it's far better to have the original !
79

Alan B,

21/08/2008 11:53:34
#Duncan in Edinburgh

As far as I can see you are the only person trying to turn this into a constitutional debate.

As an issue it is completely irrelevent with regards the constitution.

The fact that all parties have failed scotland and the uk as a whole with regard to sport facilities is much more relevent to this thread. While it is far to early to see if the snp will be significantly better than labour i would not hold out much hope.

Complaining about other people slavishly supporting Salmonnd comes across slightly ridulous considering your own slavish and mistifying support for labour.

I am not going to back through with you about who is picking a fight with who regards salmond and brown, becuase you failed to come up with anything much the last time. While i listed loads of areas where brown is picking fights with the scottish parliament and its government.

I personally find it abit boring and am much more interested in policy, particularly given the abject failure of labour to address scotlands problems.
80

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 11:53:59
#91 No insult intended AJ - and you carry right on posting to tell us how wonderful Salmond is as he takes the concept of a populist demagogue to new levels of awfulness. ;-)
81

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 12:03:24
#93 Haha, lovely. I pick fights, you just tell the truth, is that it?

You and I disagree on who is picking fights with whom. Fair enough. But it is an inescapable fact that it is Salmond and the SNP who want to divide the UK, not the Labour party. So it is in Salmond's interest to drive the wedge, not Labour's. To me and to many other people it is clear that that is exactly what he is doing.
82

,

21/08/2008 12:03:34
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83

Saruman,

21/08/2008 12:05:07
#37 Duncan: are you sure that the gay population is only 2.6%? My understanding is that most scientific studies throughout the world put the figure at 5% and I'm just trying to be fair to the gay community here.
84

,

21/08/2008 12:07:04
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85

,

21/08/2008 12:09:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
86

,

21/08/2008 12:11:47
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87

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:12:46
99. What a tool! Begone, ridiculous nat!
88

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:13:40
96. We already keep our full share of the oil revenue. Ask Salmond.

My God, you nats are clueless today!
89

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:15:08
94. Still in hysterics about this quote from Salmond about the Hoy/Kenny match: "It was the Braveheart final!"

How old is Salmond? 12?! LOL!
90

Scunner,

Bonnie Scotland 21/08/2008 12:16:06
Typical west coast/central belt bias that Glasgow gets the new cycling veladrome!

It's about time things were spread about the country more.
91

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 12:20:57
#99 What do they know of Scotland who only Scotland know.

I assume you're bemoaning the fact that we no longer speak French? Or are you making some sort of misguided attempt to claim the Highland Clearances as being the actions of non-Scots?

You need to find the missing chapters in your history book, laddie, and read them!
92

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:24:40
And isn't this article just highlighting yet another sad attempt by Salmond to barge his way through to the front of yet another bandwagon.
93

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 12:25:36
81

Sports facilities ARE relevant, as are good transportation, schools, hospitals.


Union Dividend.

94

Saruman,

21/08/2008 12:27:54
#77 Gordon: " As far as I'm concerned, the presence of the unionista flag and the absence of the Saltire make me less inclined to be interested in the Olympics."

Take it up with the Chinese! I personally regard the flags of any UK nation as a perfectly acceptable substitute for the union flag: they all come to one and the same thing.

#106 Highland: Supernat won't be there for ever more. Just look forward to the yawning gap when he finally decides to put his feet up and secure his future with a lucrative directorship of Ladbrokes!
95

Deamhain,

Aberdeenshire 21/08/2008 12:29:27
#86 Geoff.

My personal likes or dislikes of Alex Salmond are my own. I have never, or at least think I have never, expressed them on this or any other place. You will not see me indulging in any unionist/nationalist slagging match. I do however still believe that he is making an attempt, albeit in responding to a question, to jump on a current bandwagon. It's what politicians do irrespective of colour of party tie.
For the record, the jury is out for me on the independence issue. I'm not yet convinced but neither am I settled on opposition. It's what I like to call an open mind until I'm convinced on one side or other of the debate
96

Alastair the First,

21/08/2008 12:32:52
Duncan: As I have said many times elsewhere, it is not Salmond who is picking fights. He is standing up to attempted bullying from Westminster. Now Cathy Jamieson- did she not say she was going to pick a fight with Gordon Brown over Council Tax Benefit?

Your Labour scare stories and misinformation dosn't fool anyone any more. We have seen what a competent government can do for Scotland and we want more of it. And that won't involve anyone from the Labour Party, frankly!
97

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 12:35:20
107

Thanks for clatifying that.

I would guess Manchester is the national cycling centre because of the Commonwealth games.

That said, it also works in being more central (than London, for example), with good transportation links from other parts of the UK.

Chris Hoy's success is a timely reminder of what is lacking up here.

But the real problem as I see it is not money, but coaching expertise. These guys don't just grow on trees. Could some of the guys behind Britain's dominance in cycling be tempted to up sticks? That's the question.

This has been a central plank of Hoy's support for an all-British Olympic team.


98

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:35:53
108. Agreed. £235m has apparently been spent on sports facilities and training in the build up to Beijing and our athletes have had full access to all....including the Manchester Velodrome (paid for by English money for their Commonwealth Games) which has been our man Hoy's home for a while now with the rest of the Team GB cyclists.
99

Saruman,

21/08/2008 12:37:21
#85 Duncan: I've never been entirely convinced myself that the SNP are a single issue pressure group.

They've built success on the back of populist policies which are completely unrelated to the separation agenda and I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who can see the party quite happy continuing to pursue these policies after losing their much touted referendum.

Call it goal displacement, if you like (to use a sporing metaphor).

100

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 12:39:12
81, 82

Everyone know's Gilbert's role in UK tennis.

But only the truly desperate would seek to deny Brad Gilbert's influence on Andy's game.

Same goes for the LTA, who supplied the money.

101

subrosa,

21/08/2008 12:40:54
# 29

It's not so much about building new velodromes it's about renovating the ones we have to keep the youngsters off the streets. I know if the one in Dundee was updated it would be full constantly. Would think Meadowbank is similar but haven't seen it for years.
102

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:41:34
111. So the issue with the Norwegian connector was Westminster "picking a fight"?

Didn't Salmond know that foreign relations and energy are both reserved matters?

Of course he did (even I don't think he is that challenged), it was all another one of his anti-UK publicity stunts.

If you can't see that, then ask someone to explain it to you.
103

Ugly George,

edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:48:05
107 Scallywag
There are two UK indoor cycling velodromes - one in Manchester and one in Newport, South Wales.

104

G,

dundy 21/08/2008 12:49:04
"Mr Salmond said he would offer a face-to-face meeting with Hoy to discuss how to improve Scotland's cycle training facilities and respond to criticism that the nation would struggle to produce the next generation of medal-winners without major investment in new facilities."
Should read
"Mr Salmond said he'd take the photo-opportunity with Hoy and discuss how to improve his standing with the public and respond to criticism that he'd never given cycling facilities a single thought. Now he relaised that Scotland had some good athletes he'd move every mountain to utilise them and the next generation of medal-winners for maximum publicity without offering major investment in new facilities."
105

Saruman,

21/08/2008 12:49:11
Angus Mannie,
21/08/2008 12:09:37
Duncan,
theres never been a UK, just a total take over of Scotland, a destruction of a language and culture, a re-writing of the history books, theft of a huge amount of resources and a British media that keeps us in the dark.

You're what's sometimes referred to as a "Nutty Nat", aren't you!
106

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 12:56:19
119. Spot on. What was that "major investment by the SNP" a few months ago?

£600,000 to create a 'national sports network'? A sum so irrelevant that it is dwarfed by the multi-million pound SPL academies of 20-30 young players which only concentrate on football!
107

Lady Golightly,

21/08/2008 12:58:41
Is AJ of Fife the First Ministers food taster or something? He fawns over every word that his beloved leader utters and embellishes his every word. Perhaps he is even lower than a food taster - maybe a foot stool for His Salmondness to rest his weary feet upon.
108

,

21/08/2008 13:01:43
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Reason:
109

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:02:23
#Duncan in Edinburgh

"So it is in Salmond's interest to drive the wedge, not Labour's"

I disagree as that is not necesarily true and from what we have seen it actually the opposite.

Before the election labour claimed that the snp would create fights. It was their political tactic. Labour are a very good negative fighting political machine. They destroyed the tories north of the border that way. While at the same time having little positive to say. But lets face it negative campaigning like in the US does work and has worked both for labour and for the tories down south.

In power labours (westminsters) tactic against the snp has been to try and be as uncooperative as possible and try to whip up a fight and blame the snp for it. Lets face it there will always be disagreements over policy as we should want between poltical parties and even within them. Labur in sp and westmisnter were completely at odds over many issues.

If you think labour are being positive just take a look at what McConnell said about labour in westminsters tactics at the last scottish parliamentary election.

I have actually been surprised the snp have not gone down the route of creating fights with labour but have gone for the tactic of trying to show competence in sp.

I think when it comes to genuine disagreement over policy it depends whether you feel the scottish parliament speaks for scotland or westminster. As far as i can see you are blinded by party loyalty.

Take council tax rebate. I do not support lit but by Brown trying to withhold that money i find myself supporting the snp on this issue when because on a matter of principle i think labour are acting disgracefully. Even AM2 one of the most arch unionists and anti snp posters says that the council tax rebate money should come to scotland (directly to the councils).

Looking at all the parties views on local government taxation i would probably back the tory view of having a property tax but radically cutting it
110

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:02:51
cont..

Looking at all the parties views on local government taxation i would probably back the tory view of having a property tax but radically cutting it for pensioners. But i find rather than seriously discussing the best policy i find we are discussing the disgraceful behaviour of the labour party.

They simply have not come up with any reason why they have created a sp with power to vary local government taxation but will threaten withdrawal of that money if the sp uses that power. It is madness.
111

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:06:38
#Highland Mighty

What has an electricity connection got to do with foreign policy? Absolutely nothing.

Labour while in power in sp setting up embassies had alot more to do with foreign relations.

The only real important question about an electricity connection to norway is, is it in scotlands economic interests. ie would it help scotland develop an energy industry.
112

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 21/08/2008 13:07:14
Who cares what Hoy thinks, he rides a bike for goodness sakes, he is biassed. We don't let family members or friends sit on juries in judgement of their family members or friends so why listen to someone with an axe to grind anywhere else? That said #4 is correct we need more cycling and the only way to do that is the continental model with steel and concrete separating cars from bikes and not a bit of faded paint on the road that stops every 100m and forces cyclists to drive over drain covers. Glasgow is ideal for cycling as is most of Edinburgh and Aberdeen, only Dundee with its hills poses any problems to anyone with a bit of gumption. The bike route charity Sustrans put down a mile of cycleway for one thousandth the cost of that same route in tarmac so give them some money.
113

Geoff,

sa 21/08/2008 13:11:20
European Scot-good day ES-hope u are well. I just wish i could make u and Gordon see reason...:)

Morning AJ from Fife-AJ didnt like my suggestion of Scittish as aUni-Nat compromise for the GB team but I think his description of GB as the British isles team is a fair compromise! I was thinking that a combined Welsh-Scotland team could be the Wettish, Unionist Anglos could be the Bringlish and the Rugby Lions the Brirish Lions!
Funny how none of us have a problem with the European ryder Cup team under the Star spangled blue EU flag?
114

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 13:14:39
#124 I genuinely don't think you have a leg to stand on on LIT but we've been through this and you just blustered, so there probably isn't any point taking it further here.

But let's be clear that according to John Swinney, the LIT proposal has nothing to do with the tax varying powers of the SP - he says it is simply a refactoring of how local taxation is run, and nothing to do with national tax. So your final paragraph makes no sense unless you think Swinney is talking rubbish.
115

Geoff,

sa 21/08/2008 13:14:58
Also-how could you fail to be moved by Rule Britannia at the Last night of the Proms sung amidst a sea of Union Jacks. Yous must have ice in your veins not to feel some emotion from that stunning Anglo-Scots Anthem!!
116

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 13:15:31
126. Is Norway a foreign country?

If so, then any dealings with Norway is in breach of reserved matters. And Salmond knows it.
117

Saruman,

21/08/2008 13:18:56
#124 Alan B: AM2 is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I recall his saying that LIT should not attract rebates because it's supposedly completely based on ability to pay anyway.

As my old cyberpal Ayrshire Scot was fond of saying before his unfortunate deletion for posting over the top nationalist bile: "your thoughts"
118

notanactivist,

Somewhere in the Borders 21/08/2008 13:23:34
Is that a bandwagon I see Alex jumping on?

If he's so passionate about Scottish sport why wasn't he in Beijing to watch Hoy win his medals?
119

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 13:23:59
131

As has been pointed out before - it's just another fight picked by Salmond to stir up trouble with Westmeester.



120

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:30:59
#Duncan in Edinburgh

I sometime think you have a basic problem with comprehension.

I never said that lit was going to use the tax varying powers of the scottish parliament ie the 3% power to vary standard basic rate on income tax.

I said the devolution settlement has given scotland the power to vary the method of local government taxation. Completely different.

It is not that difficult to understand.

And again my issue is not LIT per se but that scotland had the right to change the method of local government taxation to whatever system that maybe, without losing its share of the money.

Abit like if the tories were to change council tax in england to a poll tax mark 11. Scotland would then have to follow englands new policy in order to get money.

You feel my position does not have a leg to stand on. But we can see the complete mess Grey got into. And now we have Jamieson lining up arguing for scotland to retain the money from council tax rebate.

Having seen your blind devotion to labour i will wait in anticipation for your justification of why any labour proposal for replacing the council tax means that scotland should get council tax rebate money.

As i say i do not even support lit. But having looked at the alternatives would support a property tax and the tories will there regard for pensioners and support for cutting council tax in 1/2 for them would be the policy i would favour.
121

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:35:01
#132 Saruman

AM2 recently in a threat said that council tax rebate money should come to scotland but go directly to councils and not the the scottish parliament. He said that it should not go to the scottish government ie snp because of their behaviour.

I do think it was a change of positon from him.
122

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:37:17
#134 It wassnae me

"The Council Tax Rebate should only come to Scotland if Scotland remains in the Union. If we opt for independence, all bets are off."

Any rebate is irrelevant with independence or even if scotland gets control of raising and spending taxes within the scottish parliament as part of a devolved settlement as advocated by some of the lib dems leadership candidates.
123

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 13:40:09
#138 I apologise. I misread your last para, missing the word "local".

In any event, the fundamental problem with the LIT proposal is that it fails to come close to generating the revenues of the system it replaces. It's £700m short per year. Even if you do find some convoluted logic to say that the £400m of CT benefits payments should continue (and frankly I doubt that), you are still £300m short.

The only answer is to set the rate at a level which pulls in more revenue, but it is immediately clear why the SNP didn't want to do that - almost half of the population would end up with bigger bills - and they are the half that votes!

If Swinney had had the balls to do LIT properly - locally set rates and a requirement to match existing revenues, alongside solutions for non-income-tax paying residents - then I would have been all in favour of a most radical wealth redistribution scheme. But he produced instead an unworkable piece of populist rubbish, and it deserves to fail.
124

Saruman,

21/08/2008 13:40:43
#139 Alan B: you still haven't answered the question as to why there should be a rebate for LIT when it is supposedly based on ability to pay anyway (leaving aside the fact that it excludes investment income).

Surely it's logical that rebates only apply to property based taxes, such as CT itself or the LVT being proposed by Iain Gray.
125

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 13:44:18
At least 55,000 working Scots students will be hoping Swinney's CA-LIT doesn't see the light of day.

126

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:47:39
#It wassnae me

"Question for you : How do you feel a Westminster PM should act towards a Scottish First Minister who's primary objective is to separate the Union?"

I think both westminster pm and sp fm, have to put their own personal views aside to work together within the consitutional settlement. I think that any move for big changes in the constitutional settlement has to be decided by the people of scotland via a referendum.

I think it is almost perverse that i think Cameron and Salmond would probably work much better together than Brown and Salmond. I think there is too much bitterness in Brown.

Lets face it putting independence aside for a moment. Firstly opinion polls say most people over 70% want substantially more power for scottish parliament. That needs to be addressed.

The other problem is the mess over fudges in powers between the sp and westminster. Part of the problem is labour while creating devolution really do not understand it like the lib dems. For many it was a strategy to stop the nats not produce better government.

Look at council tax rebate. Scotland currently gets x amount of money. Labour created a parliament with powers to change method of local government tax. Different party elected to sp, so labour tries to withhold money if other party uses the powers labour created.

Remember also there are some westminster labour documents that say rebate was part of block grant. Now they are saying it was a mistake and should not have said that. Pathetic.

This really is not a independence issue. It is about sp wanted different policy from westmisnter according to democractic wishes of sp. It is a non issue in terms of the constitution.

"In any divorce where one side want out and the other wants to stay together, it will always be an acrimonious process. You seem to expect it to be different."

Put aside politicians. I do not think the people on either side of the border have an will towards the other.
127

Gordon, Canonmills,

21/08/2008 13:48:26
# 130 Geoff SA

No ice in my veins.

I know exactly the feeling you're talking about it.

I get that feeling every time I hear Flower of Scotland at Murrayfield or Hampden.

I don't experiment something similar from watching the proms for the simple reason that I don't watch them (I'm not a Masochist!).

Land of Hope and Glory gi'es me the dry boak and all those wee prats celebtrating the fact that Britannia waives the rules makes me feel aggressive ... or would, if I bothered to watch.
128

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:55:03
#Duncan in Edinburgh

2 points:

1)As i keep saying i do not support LIT so am not going to defend something i do not support. I just believe that sp should have the right to implement a policy that is within the powers set down by the scotland act without losing money for doing so.

Yes i would like more fundamental rethink of cash allocation rather than barnett and hopefully calman might address this.

2)It is a tax cut. As I believe in lower taxes and have a dislike for the many higher taxes labour have implemented i will take a different view to you. Council tax from my perspective has risen far to fast. I also think labours betrayal of pensioners destroying pensions and the far too high council tax for pensioners.
129

Alan B,

21/08/2008 13:59:27
#146 It wassnae me

Why?

And why should they put any policy on hold for something that might or might not happen. Anyway more council funding comes from central government any so the amount of money councils get will be more effected by that.
130

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 14:08:49
#147 Oh great, you "believe in" lower taxes. What services do you "believe in" cutting? Without answering that question your statement is utterly ridiculous.
131

Alan B,

21/08/2008 14:11:34
#Saruman

"you still haven't answered the question as to why there should be a rebate for LIT when it is supposedly based on ability to pay"

Scotland is funded via the Barnett formula. That basically means the scottish parliament gets a certain amount of money depending on the money spent in england. If spending in england were to fall so would scotland proportionally. And as spending rises in england so will the spending levels in scotland.

While many poeple want this reformed. Wendy wants fiscal federalism. Some of the lib dems potential leaders want something near fiscal autonomy. But we have got what we have got.

As such if a certain amount of money is spent on england on council tax rebate funded by the uk tax payers as a whole, scotland should get a proportion of that money to fund whatever method of local government taxation the scottish parliament implements. ie scotland should not lose out financially if it implments a power devolved to the scottish parliament.

Now that i have tried to answer your question can you answer mine.

What is the point in creating a scottish parliament, giving it powers to change the method of local government taxation and then stopping money that currently comes to scotland doing so if we are to use that devolved power?

Remember aswell labour while now claiming error had the council tax rebate in certain documents pertaining to this as part of the block grant.

Second question; As noone has answered that. What happens if Westminster in the future abolishes council tax say tories poll tax mark 11 or whatever. With no council tax the rebate would have to stop in scotland. Would scotland then have to follow englands new method of local government taxation to get any subsequent rebate?

Lets face it scotland got money when there were rates, when poll tax and now council tax. It is silly to say if we change method of local government taxation again suddenly the money should stop.

The underlying problem is lab
132

Alan B,

21/08/2008 14:12:02
cont..
The underlying problem is labour made a mess of the devolution settlement.
133

Alan B,

21/08/2008 14:22:50
#Duncan in Edinburgh

Sometime i shake my head when i read your posts.

"Oh great, you "believe in" lower taxes"

Some people believe in higher taxes, some in lower. You support higher taxation. Fair enough. I support the opposite. Trying to suggest that is ridiculous says more about your own intellectual capabilities than anything else.

For another thing having lower taxes is not necessarily and not generally about cutting expenditure. Government normally implement a lower tax based country by raising expenditure at a rate lower than the wealth generated by the country.

For me it was bonkers what labour did. First saying they would not increase income tax and then increasing taxes on income. I hate that type of political position rather than being honest. Atleast old labour were honest about raising taxes and not the deceitful bunch we have at the moment.

But more importantly brown set a golden rule and then just proceded to break it. The uk over the last 10yrs have raised spending well above revenues brought in through taxes (despite raising taxes considerably). The massive deficits we now have were relatively decent economic circumstances meaning that now we have a global economic downturn we are in a complete mess.

134

Who?,

21/08/2008 14:27:51
Hoy is correct in his views.

The Commonwealth games in glasgow are looking even more like a very expensive mistake. Even the area of glasgow they are in will ensure that the facilities can only be used during daylight hours.

This issue should not be just applied to cycling but to rather a lot of other sports and activities. In scandinavia and other parts of europe the local sporting facilities are excellent whether in a small town or large city. Should your particular prefered activity not be available on your door step then it will be a very short (an inexpensive) comute away.

In scotland and the UK whether its anything from sports facilities to hospitals there is this rather daft policy of centralisation. Getting to these things is pretty impossible due to the dire public transport and labours rather shabby stalin-esq policy towards private transport (car).

Labour has misruled the UK since '97 and scotland even longer so the SNP (holyrood) and tories (UK) will have to be given time to repair this gross mismanagement.
135

Alan B,

21/08/2008 14:35:15
#Duncan in Edinburgh

Trying to be a bit more specific with regard to areas I would look at.

I would firstly not have raised spending so fast. Labour through alot of money at education to little benefit. While i support putting more money into health they through far too much money at doctors pay. I used to know alot more about specific budgets etc so my points now will be more general.

I would look at all non core expenditure eg (health being the untouchable).

I would look to raise retirement age to about 70. I would look to do something with public sector pensions. Stop the public sector early retiral. Look at redeployment of say police to non front line duties rather than early retiral.

Most money when i used to know the figures went on social security so i would look at that. Do not support using the social security system to micro manange. ie do not support the confusion of the tax credits system.

Would seriously look at universal benefits like child benefit. Although would possible re-spend the money on child care.

Would address labour and tory fiddling of incapacity benefit to lower unemployment stats.

Part of the thing about lower taxes aswell is it does not necessarily bring lower revenues in medium to long term. That is economics for the stupid. The best way to raise revenues is higher economic growth and as such i would support policies at developing economic growth. Partly why i think labour have been so awful in scotland.

Specifically in scotland i would consider abolishing the 500million spent on scottish enterprise and using it just have lower business taxes. The question really is it better to have business funding an organisation like SE or keeping their own money for investment etc.

136

Geoff,

sa 21/08/2008 14:45:22
135 MacGillicuddy-Howsit Mac-the reason us britNats havent leapt to the defence of the'hapless Broon' is simple-there are many shades of opinion on these forums-not all or maybe even a majority of Unionists are 'hapless Broon' supporters. I do not judge him as harshly as some of you guys but I agree he is probably going to get another pasting which will leave his position as PM and Labour leader as mission impossible-he will have to go.
137

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 15:04:34
#155 Right, so your first policy is to change the past...

Then "look at all non-core expenditure" - Christ almighty, what a political genius you are.

Then you'll pick a fight with the public sector far bigger than Thatcher's in the 80s - so we will be paralysed by strike action.

You'll cut spending on social services and reap a whirlwind of parental neglect cases and criminal re-offending.

By ending child benefit you'll plunge millions of families back into the poverty from which Labour has only recently rescued them.

And you would "support policies at developing economic growth". Brilliant. No government has thought of that before.

Oh yes, and you would use the £500 million spent on SE to cut business taxes. Any idea what that would translate into as a percentage cut? And anyway, corporation tax cuts do nothing for the small businesses that are needed for economic growth - most of them have very little exposure to it. Things that do help are Research and Development funding - a policy introduced by Gordon Brown.

Sorry, I think your policies are rubbish. I won't be voting for you.
138

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/08/2008 15:18:53
#18 Duncan in Edinburgh

"There are an estimated 500,000 gay people in Scotland"

Come on! Are you seriously suggesting that 10% of the Scottish population are gay?

I very much doubt it!
139

Alan B,

21/08/2008 15:23:46
#Duncan in Edinburgh

Duncan I really do think you try to be stupid.

First of all you have ignored the my point about the mess labour made of the uk fiscal postion.

Secondly you ignored my point that i would not necessarily support cutting expenditure but would just raise spending at a slower rate. That was most do if you try to shrink the amount of taxes.

Thirdly as all lefty politicians do completely ommited the point tht economic growth is far more important than the rate of tax over the medium to long term that the tax rate. ie a high tax rate with a slow growth rate raises less than a lower tax rate with a high economic growth rate.

To my mind lower taxes will produce a faster economic growth rate. If that premise is true then that would deliver better living standards for the people of the country. Conversely higher taxation would over a period of time condemn the people of this country to a life with a lower standard of living. To some extent it depends if you want just to take the short termist view as labour do to keep themselves in power or take the long term interests of the country.

Forthly I notice the big area i said i would look at retiral how we address aging population you have completely ignored. You have also been immature to try to take an extreme view of when i said i would look at something.

"And you would "support policies at developing economic growth". Brilliant. No government has thought of that before."
The fact is labour have failed in scotland. Condeming us to low economic growth. How would u suggest we solve the mess labour has left behind?

"By ending child benefit you'll plunge millions of families back into the poverty from which Labour has only recently rescued them"
Again u cannot read. I said i would look at universal benefits like child benefit. That does not mean ending it. That means, means testing it. ie i believe benefits should be targeted to those that need it not everyone.

When i said i would lo
140

Alan B,

21/08/2008 15:24:10
cont..

When i said i would look at social security eg incapacity benefit. You conclusions are illogical. The point is labour and tories have fiddled the figures. How is improving economic growth, and hence improving jobs both quality and quantity (labour have done better with quanity although much is just public sector) causing criminality. That is just stupid.

The fact is with incapacity benefit it has grown rapidly in the last decade while the population is more healthy. Even labour are now attacking the numbers, but are doing it in their own cancerous way, making geniune people scared.

U say lower corporation tax will not help improve economic growth. I beg to differ and would use ireland as an example.

At the end of the day. Labour have failed what would you suggest.
141

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 15:27:23
161

Or,

The SNP say labour has failed Glenrothes.

As the alternative choice, what 'grand plans' has Salmond got for helping these 'failed' voters....

...aside for only more of the same.

142

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 15:30:38
In the nine years from 1997 to 2006, the number of families with children living in poverty in the UK was halved. Levels of poverty among other groups was also drastically reduced. This was a direct result of the working families tax credit, the new deal, the minimum wage and a range of other wealth redistribution policies of the UK government.

It is undeniably the case that in the last 2 years some of that gain has been lost, as policies changed. But the achievement of Labour on poverty since 1997 has been dramatic, and life-changing for millions, and people like you who deny it expose themselves as ignorant naysayers.
143

Alan B,

21/08/2008 15:34:57
#158 It wassnae me

You may right about about the electrol success of such a policy. But i am talking with regard to pensions of how to address the mess.

Labour have destroyed private sector pensions. With an aging population it will make it increasing more difficult fund state pensions. (i personally would rather have the knowledge if i retired at 70 i would have a good pension rather than be in poverty retiring earlier).

The fact is say we live 10yrs after retiral. To have a pension of 15,000 a yrs we would need to have savings of 150,000. Retiring at 60 and living till 80 would need 300,000. And 15,000 does not get you much when the government tax it, and take alot away in council tax.

As such i really do think we need to address this issue. I would like flexibility built in so that people can go part time after 60. Say a 3 day week.

If you think about it. The destruction of final salary schemes is due the people living longer. With a retiral age of 70 we would have far better pensions.

With regard to public pensions. Again i think we need to do something. Firstly i do not think having such a big difference between public and private sector pensions is sustainable.

I think moving to money purchased scheme for everyone is a good idea. Allows much more flexibility. Would then legislate to forse employers whether in private or public sector to fund the personal pension to a certain percentage of salary.
144

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/08/2008 15:35:33
#149 Are you being deliberately obtuse?

On independence the money comprising the rebate will never leave Scotland in the first place. Do you actually believe that the CTB is a charitable donation from the rest of the UK to Scotland?
145

Scottish 'N British,

21/08/2008 15:41:02
168

Nor in Kosovo - just think, had it been up to Salmond, thoosands of Kosovans would have been massacred.

Wouldn't you agree that that would have been "an unpardonable folly"?

Plenty of twiddling of thumbs at border control and guard duty at Braemar, Edinburgh, Glamis and Stirling castles, though.



146

St. George,

England. 21/08/2008 15:41:19
A.J. Fife,

I wish you would make your mind up. The other day you were rubbishing all the Olympic events where the British team had won medals, as not being proper events, like rowing, cycling etc.

You couldn't wait for the athletics.

Now your beloved leader has talked about investment in a velodrome, you think he can do no wrong and has got his finger on the pulse.
147

Alan B,

21/08/2008 15:50:36
#Duncan in Edinburgh

What is labours achievements on pensioner poverty? While i would not necessarily blame labour at is alot more complicated we all know the gap between rich and poor is now wider than before labour came into power.

I do support minimum wage. But could also argue that if labour had raised the tax allowances in line with earnings that would have helped people at the low end of the income scale more.

In a very simplistic analysis of labour in power. They could either have lower taxes for the poorest in society though raising allowances. Or tax them to fund a social worker to tell them they are poor.

You still have failed to address the fact the fact that the main indicator that shows how well a country is doing is economic growth. Labour record has been poor in scotland and only good in england due to extreme short termist polcies that have plunged the uk into huuge deficits and massive personal debts (with house prices at silly levels).

Part of you problem is you ask other posters to recognise labours successes while failing to recognise yourself their massive failures.
148

Alan B,

21/08/2008 15:54:13
#Duncan in Edinburgh

You have also failed to address the issue that labour have disgracefully used incapacity benefit to massage unemployment stats. A policy they rightly critised the tories for. And now they finally woken up to the long term folly of this policy (atleast woken up with their sound bites) they are putting fear into some of the most vulnerable in society.

149

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 16:13:04
#172 With reference to "economic growth", you might find the following article interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7554022.stm

As for #173 - you seem to be saying that the only thing worse than putting people on incapacity benefit is taking people off incapacity benefit! Does this make sense in your head? You see, the thing about being in government is that you actually have to choose to do something, rather than just point out the flaws with the various options.
150

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:14:46
# It wassnae me

Just another point about pensions.

If you earn 20,000 for 40 yrs (20-60) and it was funded to 10% of ur salary that would would give 80,000.

If you earn 30,000 for 40 yrs and it was funded to 10% of ur salary that would would give 120,000.

If you earn 20,000 for 50 yrs (20-70) and it was funded to 10% of ur salary that would would give 100,000.

If you earn 30,000 for 50 yrs and it was funded to 10% of ur salary that would would give 150,000.

Obvious that pot can grow if invested but it can be hard for that to necessarily grow much faster than inflation, without risk attached. (10% is alot more than most private sector company contributions)



151

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:18:05
#Duncan in Edinburgh

I have no problem with people on incapacity benefit if genuine. Funding things like that is what makes a decent society.

What I object to is government fiddling the figures. I am sure you would have critised the tories when they did it in a much smaller scale that labour.
152

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 16:22:15
169. Again you refuse to acknowledge the gaping £2.7bn deficit that the SNP had last year (which Salmond ridiculously tried to deny). This was financed by the rest of the UK and I believe....hang on, I'll check....yes, it appears that £2.7bn is actually more than the £400m CTB.

So the CTB is NOT a rebate but is in fact extra money on top of taxes paid.

Feel free to refer to the SNP's first GERS that all you nats are desperately trying to ignore for some bizarre reason.
153

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 16:23:58
#176 Okay, please explain what you mean by "fiddling the figures". I thought you were talking about there being too many people left on IB because it's easier than getting them into the workforce. What did you mean?
154

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:29:03
#Duncan in Edinburgh

Economic growth is the statistic most economicst rely on for the state of the economy. Not many economists would say it is irrelevent.

Do you think Brown would say it is irrelevent. Do you think any major party would say it is irrelevent.

Using the imf figure or world bank figure (which are slightly different) can give a good independent guide.

Further more. Go to a country that has slow economic growth and see the result. UK in the 80s which average 1.4% under thatcher.

Look at the job market in scotland and compare it to the fast economic growth their. Forget the figures for economic growth and just look at the number and quality of jobs available.

Economic growth is a measure of the value of goods and services created and as such the wealth of the nation. It will then feed into the quantitive and qualitive (salaries) in the job market.

Why for instance was it much easier to get a decent job in the fast growing irish economy that in scotland over the last decade.

155

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 16:29:50
166. I'm sure our friends in Europe and America will be glad to know they can rely on an independent Scotland's help if they should get attacked.

Maybe all the nats would prefer to retreat into the Highlands, maybe find some isolated village to live in together and then they'll be away from the big nasty world. I'm sure the vast majority of Scotland, and obviously the rest of the UK, would rent a minibus to help you move.
156

AJ Fife,

21/08/2008 16:33:33
St George,

I think you'll find I was rubbishing the 'Hooray Henry' sports such as sailing, riding and rowing

Cycling is a sport for all, especially since with Team Scotland's Olympic successes!
157

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 16:33:58
179. Possibly due to the billions of euro's in EU aid that Ireland received to subsidise tax cuts which spurred the subsequent economic growth?

To be honest, Alan B, as someone who seriously believes Scotland would be better off having its national monetary policy decided in Frankfurt, your knowledge of economic matters leaves a little to be desired.

Salmond only preaches this as part of his blanket and automatic opposition to anything to do with the UK. What's your excuse?
158

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:36:07
#Duncan in Edinburgh

You point about economic growth goes against most of what gordon brown has been trumpeting as his economic success. Where he went on about improving the underlying and sustainable uk growth rate. ie the growth rate at which the uk economic could growth without igniting inflation.

Growing greater than the productive potential of the economy ie demand outstips supply leads to inflation.
159

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 16:38:11
#183 Eh? You've completely lost me now. I simply pointed you to a BBC article which explains what rubbish the statistics we rely on to define economic growth (and recession) are.
160

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 16:41:06
184. He's got himself tied up in knots.

He's citing basic economic theory of 'demand outstripping supply thereby causing inflation', as if it is a British-only problem. He has completely missed the point that the current rising inflation is mostly influenced by energy and food prices, which is happening globally and has very little to do with domestic policies.
161

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 16:47:06
#187 More brilliant economic analysis there. There's a global credit crunch, and global food and energy price inflation, so the answer is: independence for Scotland! Wahey!
162

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:48:13
#Highland Mighty

Ireland growth was due to alot of factors. Other countries have had money thrown at them from eu but few transformed their economy and none have grown in the same manor as ireland.

Ireland is now richer than most other countries in the world. 2nd richest in europe if i remember correctly. (per person obviously).

Yes I support the euro. Obviously you do not. Politically it is not just the snp that support it (although do not think joining the euro is snp official position). The lib dems support it. Labour supported it under Blair but could not win political support from the country. McConnel was on record as supporting it. For the tories Clarke and Heseltine both supported the euro. So trying to make it just a snp fantasy is stupid.

So did most of the eu member countries (although i do think there was alot of poltical motivation for it aswell.

You can critise my approach to monetary policy but conversely i think yours shows a complete economic ignorance. Driven by politcal considerations rather than economic.

Anyone with any clue about monetary policy knows sterling has been detrimental to scotland over a long period of time. Possibly the biggest problem is the failure of both labour and the tories to deal with structural economic problems of the uk that leads to the north south divide, meaning that monetary policy in scotland and the north of england tends to suffocate growth.
163

Highland Mighty©,

21/08/2008 16:50:31
187. Eurozone inflation rate: 4%
US inflation rate: 5%
UK inflation rate: 4.4%

Yep, it's all only happening to the UK! LOL!
164

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:54:29
#186 Highland Mighty

Can you read?

My point had nothing to do with the current inflationary pressures.

But do not let facts get in the way.

My point if you actually read it was Duncan was claiming economic growth does not matter. That the whole figures are rubbish etc. And posted a link of some putting that view.

I posted back that while you may get the odd person puting that view most economists and the most of the economic spokes people for the politcal parties.

So do you agree with Duncan economic growth is irrelevent and the figures are rubbish?

Considering you have posted before about how the uk is the 4th largest economy in the world (gpd). I think you will find it hard to agree with him.
165

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 16:58:34
#192 At what point did I say that economic growth does not matter? A bizarre allegation.

I simply pointed you at a BBC article which explains the deep flaws in our perception of the numbers the media tells us represent "economic growth".
166

Alan B,

21/08/2008 16:59:32
#Duncan in Edinburgh

And i was pointing all most economist and all the economic spokesmen of all the major parties would disagree.

My point about Brown going on about lifting the uk underlying growth rate. ie non inflationary growth rate, as a major achievement demostrated that he disagrees with you that economic growth is meaningful. (that was my point HM not wittering on about global inflationary pressures).

I would also trying to show that if you actually live in an area said to be high economic growth, the people on the ground can feel it due the number and quality of jobs available. ie ireland and london have been far better in having quality jobs than scotland. Although scotland has done well in quantitive terms in the last decade.
167

Duncan in Edinburgh,

21/08/2008 17:06:56
#194 Mmm - and the UK isn't in recession either. House prices are long overdue a reality check. I tell you what is increasing at a deadly pace - the number of wild predictions about what's going to happen when a recession takes hold.

#196 Further bizarreness. What does "scotland has done well in quantitive terms" mean? A tacit acknowledgement that under Labour Scotland has lower unemployment than the rest of the UK? Surely not.
168

Alan B,

21/08/2008 17:07:32
#195 Duncan in Edinburgh

The thread we got into this discussion the other day. Your link today put meat on the bones of your argument on that thread.

I am not talking about the media talking about economic growth. I am talking about imf or world bank figures of our economic growth. And even the official economic growth figures provided by the uk government.

I was using the governments figures of scotlands, uk economic growth figures. (not saying the government could not improve the statistics). I know labour afew years were accused over scottish economic growth statistics as it account the contribution of the health sector in scotland differently to england which inflates scottish growth slightly.

As per the discussion on the other thread a few dasys ago the fact is if you compare scotland growth to uk we do not do aswell. While the uk has underperformed the smalll european countries known as the arc of prospertity.

scotland avg growth 2.2% over the last decade
uk 2.8%
group of small european countries 3.8%.

The following countries
Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Iceland, Netherlands,Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Finland , Belgium
all have a higher gpd per capita ppp than the uk.
169

Alan B,

21/08/2008 17:14:21
#199 Duncan in Edinburgh

How is it bizzarre. Are you a loony. I am trying to put an argument across and as such if there are things that I feel good i will say so. (for instance i have strongly praised brown - one of the few times - for making the bank of england independent).

As scotland does have a high employment participation. Probably too much in public sector. The problem with the scottish job market is more the quality of job. Having alot of low paid jobs low skills jobs or just funding public sector jobs through massive deficits is not the way forward.

Just so you can appreciate the level of public debt in the uk. If you take pfi and the unfunded public sector pensions into account (labour correctly forsed the private sector to fully fund pensions but did not do the same for public sector) then the uk level of debt excedes 100% of gdp.

170

Alan B,

21/08/2008 17:19:09
#Duncan in Edinburgh

"House prices are long overdue a reality check."

That is because of the mess labout has made of control house price inflation.

Like the tories sorting out inflation with a recession like in the early 90s. If they had control inflation in the first place we would not have the pain of that recession.

Similarly if labour had control house price inflation then we would not have this mess of having people to endure pain of any correction.

Brwon remember encouraged house price inflation eg when he even lost the plot completely at one point when he was going to allow second homes to be put in your pension fund. Barmy. (luckily that was pulled at the last minute)
171

bluehead,

edinburgh 21/08/2008 17:22:02
to many eggheads on this one,I'll pass
172

St. George,

England 21/08/2008 17:25:24
A.J. Fife

Are you not aware that there was not a Team Scotland in the Olympics, or have you been dreaming again.

Most of the cyclists came from the North West of England, where Chris Hoy is now based. It is a pity there was not a Team Lancashire.

At least, if the 'Hooray Henrys' as you call them were competing in sailing, riding and rowing, they were probably competing against Hooray Henrys from other countries, so it was a level playing field. So, well done to all our competitors in Team G.B. and long may it reign.

173

Alan B,

21/08/2008 17:27:00
#Duncan in Edinburgh

If we fall into a recession (which i actually doubt), it will be down to browns incompetence.

If he had run a tight fiscal ship over the last 10yrs in the good times he would have much more flexibility now in allowing deficits to rise and using tax to cut petrol duty etc.

If he had not allowed the huge levels of private debt ie the debt that fueled his short termist economic boom, then again we would not be in such a tight spot.

Part of the way to test a government economic management is how well prepared the country is when the global economy hits choppy waters.

When the global economy hit choppy waters in the late 90s (scottish recession apart) the uk weathered it well due to the good public finances as brown stuck to the tory spending plans in the first 2yrs.(and relatively low levels of personal debts compared to today).

174

In my opinion...,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 17:31:06
Fantastic! Well done Chris!

Shame Edinburgh Council are set reward his achievement by destroying track cycling in the East of Scotland. Still, the consolation prize is an open-top bus tour and a possible MBE...

It's obvious what he'd prefer instead though. See a short Video of Chris Hoy's arguments to Edinburgh City Council over its plans to downsize and sell off Meadowbank including the Meadowbank Velodrome that was his platform to success.

www.savemeadowbank.org

Also there, sign the e-petition to Scottish Government on the same issue.
175

jdships,

21/08/2008 17:53:35
62 Geoff H,

Still, 61 George Mackay,Dundee , is correct in what he writes !!!!!!!!!!
176

weh,

21/08/2008 19:24:05
If Mr Salmond speaks, I for one, will DEFINITELY listen!

If any other "party" leader speaks, I utterly ignore!

(Especially lab or libdum scots)
177

Truely English,

21/08/2008 20:09:02
Let us praise, this great Team GB effort for all the medals they have won and not just the participants from Scotland. Team GB has done a magnificiant job and I hope they continue to do so.

Unity of purpose is required when going for Gold at whatever level of society and it is good to see this happening among the Team GB Team.
178

,

21/08/2008 21:28:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
179

,

21/08/2008 21:32:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
180

puskas,

East kilbride 21/08/2008 21:46:55
Much drivel spouted on this topic.

95% of debate/comment would be discontinued in a Independent Scotland.

A richer fairer country is on its way as unionism is dying a death.

Resources would be greater by far.

Many write on this comment board as if backbone has deserted them. Scotlands people in a Independent nation shall not need pocket money from a next door neighbour. Whatever my Government deem to improve the wellbeing those of who live and made their home here I back with pride.
How dare Westminster say we have no right to speak to countries like Norway as in energy link up.
Every Nation has this democratic option to decide what is best for its people.
How dare we have Scottish MP's with their noses in the troughs in London that say it is not in our power to discuss progress/regeneration of their country with other democratic nations.
We have submissions from members of this site telling the Scottish people that it is outside our remit in legislation that brought devolution.
Grow a backbone everyone one of you. Would it be acceptable for your next door neighbour to take your hard earned money every week and give you pocket money... ??
Seperation or Independence call it what you wish but I like many others who are now in a majority do not wish having to depend on quisling Scots. Preferring to look after their own bank balance and party than their own.country.

Brown's photographic sessions in the middle east and China will have no effect whatsoever as he heads out the door with the rest of his cabinet. Holyrood to follow...
My goodness Gray, Jamieson, Kerr.... Com'on gies a brek....
To many of us this issue is bigger than just the financial aspects.
Scotland should have no fear as my country will be very rich. Maybe the doubters would have a case if over a period of time Holyrood doesn't come up with the modern scaletric, Hornby link up systems that our country craves for and Westminster has never given.

In time modern Inde
181

Sile,

planet getmadder by the day 21/08/2008 22:15:39
47# alan b
Correction Andy spent 2 years in Spain after that LTA finianced Andy to the tune of big bucks hiring the American Brad Gilbert, he uses and practices at their facilities in Roehampton when in this country, which I think you will find is South of the Border
182

A Better Way,

Scottish Capital 21/08/2008 23:50:50
Duncan, Please explain where you got the figures concerning the claimed 500,000 gays in Scotland.

I think you are talking out of your erky on this one. There cant be that many deviates in Scotland.Or is your figures based on some hypothetical mathematical formula created by the queers to give them credability, when in fact they are one of the sick side of a civilized society that is stagnating towards an inevitable decline.
183

Looking in,

Stirling 22/08/2008 13:15:33
I think this could be a great opportunity providing it isn't about ruffling feathers but actually an attempt to get something of benefit established.

Personally, I think it would be an even better campagin if Hoy was to go in an try to get better facilities for all cyclists - the competitive side of the sport is quite small compared to all those that cycle. If generally cycling facilities were improved and increased, I think it would swell the numbers and start to draw more people into the competitive side.

I'm involved in a local project that is going nowhere due to narrow-mindedness and lack of vision so I think what Hoy is doing is excellent, if it encourages people to talk about this at a very high level, hopefully it will start to get more developed to encourage people to try the sport (and then try the copetitive side of it)...I just hope Hoy isn't going to just go in and beat the drum about Meadowbank, I'd hope he went in with a much bigger picture and painted an attractive picture of the whole thing - and equally Salmond would listen to this, take it all on-board, weigh it up against everything else and hopefully agree to get something done to start improving facilities.
184

Stephen fae Scotland,

San Francisco (& Edinburgh) 23/08/2008 19:37:49
Did my eyes deceive me? I thought I read the Furst Meeniser using the word "Britain". Perhaps he needs to let his McTaliban followers know that Britain actually exists. Plenty of the McTaliban sheep post nonsense about there being no such thing as Britain.

As for Fatty's policies - its hard to blame the English, the Tories, Labour or global warming for the loss of facilities when your party is in charge of the council, parliament and budgets involved.
185

Alan Reid,

nz 27/08/2008 11:35:46
Exclusive: Scotland can stand alone at Olympics.. with enough investment, says Chris Hoy
Aug 27 2008 By Joanne Curran

TRIPLE gold medal hero Chris Hoy last night said he'd be proud to be part of a Scottish Olympic team.

The Edinburgh cyclist rubbished reports that he thought the idea was "ridiculous".

Speaking exclusively to the Record, he told of his pride in his home country.

And he said he believes Scotland could form a world-class team - with the right investment in sports.

Chris was given a hero's welcome when he landed back in Britain on Monday after winning three golds in Beijing.

But the 32-year-old said: "I feel a bit upset that I have been quoted as saying the idea of a Scottish Olympic team is ridiculous.

"If and when a Scottish team was put together, I would be delighted to represent Scotland in the Olympic Games.

"But before that happens, so much needs to be done for the athletes to be able to compete at the highest level.

"As a cyclist, there isn't a facility in Scotland where I can train throughout the year and that's why I have to base myself outside Scotland.

"I am proud to be Scottish, but at the same time it's not feasible to think we can compete as a nation without the right facilities."

Chris - on his way home to an emotional reunion in Edinburgh with lawyer girlfriend Sarra - said major investment would be needed to make a Scottish team successful.

He said: "Right now, around £20million a year is being invested in British cycling so there would be a huge investment required in Scotland."

He backed the campaign to save Edinburgh's Meadowbank stadium, where he trained as a young athlete.

Today, crowds will line Edinburgh's Royal Mile to salute Chris and Scotland's other medal-winners - cyclist Ross Edgar, 25, rower Katherine Grainger, 32, and canoeist David Florence, 26.

 

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