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Salmond to be brought before MSPs to explain actions over Trump plan



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Published Date: 18 December 2007
ALEX Salmond is set to be summoned before a Holyrood committee in the new year to explain his role in the controversy over Donald Trump's £1 billion golf development.
First Minister Alex Salmond faces tough questions over meetings held to discuss Donald Trump's golf complex Picture: Jane Barlow
First Minister Alex Salmond faces tough questions over meetings held to discuss Donald Trump's golf complex Picture: Jane Barlow
The other three political parties are preparing to gang up on the First Minister, causing him maximum discomfort.

The Tories say they will move tomorrow to have the Scottish Government's actions over the Trump plan examined by a Holyrood committee, with Mr Salmond called to give evidence. Labour and the Liberal Democrats are backing that idea.

The First Minister last night welcomed the move as an opportunity to explain he had done nothing wrong.

But Mr Trump is said to be increasingly annoyed at the "meddling" of politicians, warning the "malicious attacks" could scupper the project, in Aberdeenshire, once and for all.

The First Minister and the Scottish Government have come under fire for holding meetings with Mr Trump's representatives just days before the US tycoon's application was "called in" by ministers.

Last week, it emerged that not only Mr Salmond but also the Scottish Government's chief planner, Jim McKinnon, had met representatives of the Trump organisation. And John Swinney, the finance secretary, who will take the final decision on the plan, visited a Trump resort in the US days before calling in the application.

Yesterday, Nicol Stephen, the Liberal Democrat leader, moved that an independent inquiry should take place. However, amid fears it could slow the planning process to such an extent Mr Trump would go elsewhere, this failed to get the backing of MSPs from other parties.

So it is more likely that the matter will be investigated by the local government and communities committee – a process that could be wrapped up much more quickly.

David McLetchie, the Scottish Tories' chief whip and business manager, suggested that was the best way forward.

He said: "Scottish Conservatives believe the most appropriate body to examine the conduct, handling and 'calling in' of this planning application by the Scottish Government is the parliament's local government and communities committee.

"Accordingly, when the committee meets on Wednesday, I will propose that we take evidence on the role played to date by the Scottish Government in relation to this application."

Because there is one Tory, one Liberal Democrat, three Labour members and three SNP MSPs on the committee, Mr McLetchie's motion is likely to pass.

Last night, the Liberal Democrats were still hoping for an independent inquiry.

However, a spokesman admitted such a move was unlikely to get support from other parties and said they would be willing to support anything that was based on forcing the government to "answer questions they have so far failed to answer".

He went on: "A speedy inquiry by a parliamentary committee, based on a cross-party consensus, achieves the degree of openness and transparency we have been demanding."

Labour said it was also willing to consider the Tory proposal.

A spokesman said: "The SNP have got some serious questions to answer over their handling of the Trump planning application. "

Even Mr Salmond supported an inquiry by the committee.

A spokesman described the idea as "sensible" and said: "The First Minister has previously said he is very open and available to parliamentary committees, and is perfectly relaxed with this, as ministers and civil servants have conducted themselves totally correctly throughout."

However, a spokeswoman for Mr Trump said the politicians were in danger of jeopardising the whole project.

She said: "The Trump Organisation is dismayed at the political attacks on both Alex Salmond and Jim McKinnon, who acted with absolute probity and discretion, as did the Trump Organisation's managers.

"These attacks are more than misguided; they are malicious, inaccurate and potentially destructive and they threaten to once again endanger a £1 billion project which has the overwhelming backing of the North-east of Scotland."

Brian Adam, the SNP MSP for Aberdeen North, said politicians should be concentrating on economic development rather than slowing down the planning process with "false and irresponsible charges".



The full article contains 674 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

18/12/2007 00:04:51
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2

Royster,

18/12/2007 00:19:44
Well Scotland's First Minister, Mrs Trump, certainly has some explaining to do. It must come as a shock that Scotland is not a personal fiefdom.
3

The Strategist,

18/12/2007 00:22:17
One get's the distinct feeling Alex Salmond will have the last laugh here.
4

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 00:24:49
This is becoming a national disgrace...not Salmond's actions, which were completely accetpable, but the unionist libdem-led witch hunt. Also the idiot Nicol Stephan is doing is damaging Scotland's image abroad.

Now, Nicol, I know you've slipped into obscurity since being booted out of office in May, but this is no way to try to get back into the lime light.

I object strongly to the Libdems and the rest of the opposition rabble wasting my taxes by opening up un-needed commissions and investiagations into a matter that should never have been an issue in the first place.

Get over it, Nicol et al. Salmond did nothing wrong...stop trying distract people from focusing on your own appauling failings by making something out of nothing...
5

An English voice...,

too many English Voices on here 18/12/2007 00:25:56
I agree with number 3. These opposition twottoes are setting themselves up for a fall.
6

An English voice...,

18/12/2007 00:28:41
Wait till the spotlight turns back onto Wendy.
7

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 00:31:14
Oh, and I couldn't agree more than with this statement:

"These attacks are more than misguided; they are malicious, inaccurate and potentially destructive and they threaten to once again endanger a £1 billion project which has the overwhelming backing of the North-east of Scotland."

Funny how the voice of reason once again comes from those outwith the parocial unionist Scotland goldfish bowl...bit like so many ex-Pat Scots being nationalist...you have to look at Scotland from the outside to see how rediculous the unionist case is and the unionist politicians are...Nicol, Wendy and Annabel, you're all utter jokes...
8

An English voice...,

18/12/2007 00:37:53
8. AM2. Who is a neutral observer in this?
9

james_89,

18/12/2007 00:38:35
#1
and what exactly has Salmond done wrong? a meeting using his car, on a matter affecting his own constiuency with Trump representatives? As the bbc reports http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7148872.stm
"It has also emerged that on the day ministers called in the application, Trump representatives were with the government's chief planner, Jim Mackinnon, during a phone call to the council chief executive.

However, Mr Trump's aides had been asked to leave the room before the discussion took place."

Aberdeenshire council's infrastructure services committee voted against Trump's plans for the resort at the Menie Estate on November 29, although the full council backed it. Since it is such a huge project with the prospect of adding thousands of jobs and will bring important tourits to the area,and Scotland, then why is Nicol being so malicious? he says he supports it, so why is he going down this route no one else seems to follow? Salmond cannot take part in the planning process, so whats the issue? even the Councillor Martin Ford was sacked as the committee chairman because councillors believed he sent out the wrong message.

Since the council backed Trumps plans, i don't see why the scottish government shouldn't
10

An English voice...,

18/12/2007 00:40:45
AM2. As far as I can see civil war has broken out within a state of civic nationalism.

Care to comment?
11

,

18/12/2007 00:43:59
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12

PaulW,

Borders 18/12/2007 01:07:39
This is all becoming something of a train wreck....for the Unionists. While I am sure they think they are being oh so clever, I suspect that they are the ones coming out of this with a real stink....while the Tories and Lib Dems let Wendygate slip into the distant past.

But of course, that is the plan for this unholy triumverate. Only thing is, despite their efforts real people are wondering what planet they are on.

I just wish there was an election now, as the Lib Dems would be wiped out, Labour support would collapse and the SNP would get a bigger mandate. Support for Independence is growing (now 40% - Sunday Herald / TNS System Three) - we were told the SNP would scare off inward investment, but it is ironic that the Lib Dems, Tories and Labour are the ones putting this investment in danger methinks, judging by Trump's letter.
13

Conan the Librarian™,

18/12/2007 01:11:43

"Salmond to be brought before MSPs to explain actions over Trump plan"

Would that be on his knees in chains then?

Then scrubbed down and taken to Annabel Goldie?
14

rsandas,

crail 18/12/2007 01:28:18
#11 - AM2 Do you care to comment on the latest TNS System Three poll indicating that 40% of those polled favor the independence referendum as proposed by Alex Salmond?
15

rsandas,

crail 18/12/2007 01:28:18
#11 - AM2 Do you care to comment on the latest TNS System Three poll indicating that 40% of those polled favor the independence referendum as proposed by Alex Salmond?
16

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

This really is a disgrace 18/12/2007 01:32:36

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3056768.ece

17

urban poacher,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 01:37:53
so when Trump decides not to come we can all blame Nicol Stephen, what a numpty Either way it is win win for the SNP Trump goes blame the Liberals Trump stays take the credit. The liberal councillor who started this and Stephen are a credit to their party Realise he was trying to cover Wendy's behind (no comments) but shooting himself in the foot while he had it in his mouth was not the best idea. Stephen, Scott and Finnie are all examples of why Liberals have to be kept away from power.
18

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

18/12/2007 01:44:18
What happened to the "Wendy Bricking-it! after hearing of Sheridan Arrest" headline?
19

McMillar,

London 18/12/2007 01:53:36
Mr Salmond – do you admit to driving 2 miles for NE business in the company car? Answer – No, not at all.

Will Nicol Stephen resign after this?

ZZZzzz. You couldn’t make it up. Only in Scotland could this actually be happening. The Lib Dems are like fish out of water and this may be the only/last chance to salvage anything. Very sad from a NE politician (NS) who should be collaborating for the benefit of all.
20

Shamus,

Glasgow 18/12/2007 02:26:00
Ex Socialist Salmond bends OVER BACKWARDS FOR TRUMP AND TAKES MONEY FROM SOUTER. Cannae be, OH Yes it is, Naw, OH but AYE!! Cmon SSP AND SOLIDARITY get yer act together.
21

Guga II,

Rockall 18/12/2007 02:55:25
This is totally unreal. The corrupt and sleaze ridden Whigs and New Labour Numpties trying to divert attention from their own actions and onto a man who has done nothing wrong, either intentionally or unintentionally.

When are we going to have a Holyrood committee set up to examine all the sleaze and corruption in the Unionist parties? Come to think of it, when are we going to have some police action on The Mouth of the South's breaking the law?

Apart from anything else, the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (Scottish Branch) can't hold their head up in the steamie, as is also the case with their HQ in Westminster.
22

,

18/12/2007 03:48:43
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23

Ayr....,

they seek him here, they ..... 18/12/2007 04:21:40
Yes, #3, he already is. It's no coincidence that the smile is splitting Sir Eck's face in the photo - I'm thinking we may have a well placed mole in the Hootsmon making a selection appropriate for the article.
24

Pete40,

Tassy 18/12/2007 04:35:00
One of the problems is that actions like this will be forgotten at the next election. It would be good if they would record the details of this fiasco and publish the details before the next election. Names included.
25

b h,

dornoch 18/12/2007 04:35:39
Everyone's right about one thing:

No way you could make all this up.

The project needs to be delayed anyway cause who wants to be out on those dunes in January?

Let them start in April.
26

Scozzy,

Aus 18/12/2007 04:40:58
Alex Salmond's supporters should be ashamed of themselves for blindly backing his actions which are a complete betrayal of due process. Nothing less than a full public inquiry will now extrapolate him from the hole he has dug himself into.

However for Trump's team to attempt to portray themselves as the victims is the classic act of a playground bully and shows them in their true light.
27

Alan Reid,

Wellington, New Zealand 18/12/2007 05:33:19
More sh@te from the unionist rabble.
28

Royster,

18/12/2007 05:46:03
I see the SNP culties are out this morning. What's it like to find out that your Dear Leader doesn't walk on water?
29

Auckland Arab2,

18/12/2007 05:49:17
Non story like all the other recent anti SNP deflection tactics. This article would have you believe that Salmond is being summoned on pain of death. What utter garbage as usual from the Comic Strip Presents...
30

Jimmy the Pie,

North Sea 18/12/2007 06:00:21
The headline makes it sound like Alex is to be brought before the MSP's in shackles. No wonder the Hootsmoan's sales are dropping faster than Nu Labs poll ratings. Utter Pi$h
31

donald,

glasgow 18/12/2007 06:06:33
Time thew Unionist hacks were tried for treason.
32

overton,

Balmedie 18/12/2007 06:26:51
30 Royster:
I have to say that until now I didn't support the SNP but after witnessing the disgraceful and embarrassing behaviour of Nicol Stephen and the abject moron Martin Ford I give Alex Salmond my whole-hearted support.
God help the Lib Dems and the Eco-freak Greens if Mr Trump gives up on us.
33

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/12/2007 06:41:35
Hark at the Tartan Taliban! Dear Leader is being asked to explain his conduct! Shocking! The man is a God. He is above sin or suspicion. He should not be treated like a common politician.And as for the temerity of this newspapaer to dare report these facts. Why, the entire workforce should be hanged, drawn and quartered, twice, for blasphemy and treason.
34

george alexander,

north lanarkshire 18/12/2007 06:48:34
Let's leave aside the blatantly suggestive headline.

The thing is, what does 'Little Nicol' do now?

He has already made it clear that he suspects law breaking and requested a full judicial inquiry. He should be forced to explain what evidence he had for suggesting such criminal misdeeds.

How will he deal with the very real law breaking and corruption that sits at the heart of Scottish Labour. Can he now revert to form and say absolutely nothing?

Can any of the usual suspects offer a definition into the 'sleaze' that has been alleged?

Has anyone managed to demonstrate any evidence for any of the allegations yet?

Come on Unionists, there must be one of you who can answer .......... just one.
35

,

18/12/2007 06:50:13
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36

,

18/12/2007 06:52:31
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37

,

18/12/2007 06:53:49
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38

A Better Way,

18/12/2007 06:55:29
Overton, welcome to the Scots Way. I have no doubts that you are one of the very many who will ensure that Scotlands voice will be heard.

It is almost like the Unionists Parties are commited to ensuring that we the Scottish People will once more run our country.Do they really think that the Scottish People will tolerate that their Elected Leader of the Nation of Scotland is being used as a whipping boy by Political Parties who are controlled from London.

You lot have gone too far and it will be reflected at the next elections. The FIBDEMS should save theirselves a lot of money to shut up shop and make sure their staff get the legal payments due in retrenchment. The Libdems are finished because of Nicols attempt in a futile way to discredit the Great Leader of Scotland. He is merely a mouthpiece to the London Controlled New Labour Party who cannot say one word because their leader is in her own words guilty of breaking the law.
39

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/12/2007 06:56:09
Rules@35. Do you mean hanged drawn and eighthed?
40

,

18/12/2007 07:09:06
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41

,

18/12/2007 07:12:28
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42

Conan the Librarian™,

18/12/2007 07:12:35
41
jock
Probably better than 16.
43

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 18/12/2007 07:17:02
Unionist anti-NE numpties.

All SNP wants to do is better Scotland. Better than being shackled to London.

All Mr Trump wants to do is plough a £1bn investment into NE Scotland...& the unionists squabble, as if they are still down in Westminster.

My God, sooner Scotland is independent from this sh!te, the better for all.
44

somerferg,

oz 18/12/2007 07:26:42

#48 - hear, hear ! the unionist numpties and their supporters on this comment board are trying so hard to prove that Alex Salmond has done something wrong that I fear they may well spontaneously combust - and wouldn't Scotland be SO worse off without their cringeing, lickspittle ways?
45

1745,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 07:29:00
Do the unionist parties think that,come the next Scottish election, that we will have forgotten their antics against what appears to have been a genuine attempt to secure for SCOTLAND a lucrative deal' bringing life to a barren area in the North east, which deserves all our help.The answer is NO.
46

1745,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 07:29:10
Do the unionist parties think that,come the next Scottish election, that we will have forgotten their antics against what appears to have been a genuine attempt to secure for SCOTLAND a lucrative deal' bringing life to a barren area in the North east, which deserves all our help.The answer is NO.
47

Scozzy,

Aus 18/12/2007 07:33:44
Why is that anybody who disagrees with the way Alex Salmond has conducted this affair is villified as an anti-Scottish unionist (even when they're not)? It really is pathetic that the mob rule mentality has taken over this whole saga and that transparency, accountability and integrity have all been ditched in the spurious name of economic progress. If this is representative of the new Scotland then the future is grim.
48

donald,

glasgow 18/12/2007 07:46:30
The Lib Dums need to question their own Nicholass,
49

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/12/2007 07:56:41
If Fat Ecky and the SNP really want to help Scotland then they should shut up, and shut up shop. If independence is a cure-all then please explain those independent nations that are basket cases.

The present Union isn't serving us well, but it can easily be sorted out within a revised Union, keeping the good bits, losing the bad. Sadly SNP tunnel vision blinds its supporters to reality.
50

Ricardo,

methil 18/12/2007 07:58:22
The Scotsman in its usual mode to keep the Lying Corrupt Jimmy the Lips Krankie out of the News.
51

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 07:59:24
#52
By “mob rule mentality” do you mean the democratic will of the people of Aberdeenshire?

What exactly has, in your opinion, Alex Salmond done to breach transparency, accountability or integrity?

Due you regard any economic progress as “spurious”, or just this proposed development?

Do you believe the old Scotland’s past has been less than grim?
52

Dug the bug,

Brisvegas 18/12/2007 08:00:22
Forgive me my ignorance - when is it likely for the next general (Westminister) election?

53

Rod5577,

Glasgow 18/12/2007 08:03:36
What an unbalanced and badly written article from what used to be a great newspaper. A sentence starting with the word "And" sounds a bit Vicky Pollard and it does not stop there. There is an inference that John Swinney meets Donald Trump just because he stayed in a Trump Resort which was booked by VisitScotland months previously. Does that mean that any politicians who spent time in Hilton Hotel did so to meet Paris Hilton. This paper's bias is getting quite farcical in its futile attempts to support unionism and the status quo. Furthermore, if "spokesmen" make statements please name them.
54

Dug the bug,

yh 18/12/2007 08:03:59
jhvjh
55

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 08:04:06
52
With all due respect the people in Aberdeen are more likley to know the facts about this than you are!
The local paper paints a very different picture to what is being reported to the rest of Scotland.I doubt that Australia will fare any better!


The object of this whole charade was to try and take the heat out of WENDY GATE ,and lo and behold she has gone and done it again! That ,and put a spoke in an SNP wheel which threatens to run so fast the Fairy Tories Liberal Demoparts and la b liar parody cannot keep up.
Salmond has NOTHING to explain.He is the MP for the Gordon seat and as such has every justification in the world for being there, and trying to save this project.
The person who should face an enquiry is Nicol Stephen.The questions that should be asked of him are
(1) What have you got between your ears?
(2) How did it get there?
(3) Is there any known cure ?
His own party councillors are reported as defecting to the SNP and Tories as we speak.
This is the Unholy alliance mischief making,in the hope that some people will be stupid enough to believe that the three Unionist parties have a point.THEY DO NOT.If this had been in Dumfries then Salmond would indeed wear his 1st Minister hat,since that would clearly be his involvement.In Gordon THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.He was elected to represent this seat and his involvement can be and is wearing that hat!Perfectly above board and everybody including Nicol Stepehen KNOWS IT!

Salmond will emerge from this despite these attempts to smear him,and the bias of the Scottish Press which is nothing more than a puppet of WESTMONSTER.

It will be obvious to most people in Scotland that they have an anti SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT(at Westminster),and an anti Scottish Press and Opposition here in Scotland.

Theres only one cure for this disease(Its called press the self destruct button syndrome)and 40% now realise it.ITS TIME!

At the next SNP conference I expect to hear Winnie Ewing saying to the SNP activis
56

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 08:05:27
Seemingly the “Scottish” Daily Express carries an opinion poll showing some 60% of the respondents support Independence.

Seems like the unionists are folding their tents and going home.
57

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 08:06:36
55



ALL countries are independent !
That therefore includes the successful ones also, most of which are small like guess who!
The facts say you are talking rubbish
58

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 08:09:57
"And John Swinney, the finance secretary, who will take the final decision on the plan, visited a Trump resort in the US days before calling in the application."
Why is The Scotsman not adding that it was to a VisitScotland function ?
The venue was not chosen by the minister so should VisitScotland be investigated as well ?
59

Unimpressed one,

18/12/2007 08:11:33
Preserve a stretch of coastline that is of no special interest except to a handful of conservationists or allow a multi-million pound development to go ahead which will attract more tourists, the backbone of the Scottish economy....why did you do it Mr Salmond????
60

Whiskyman,

Aberdeenshire - 30 miles from Balmedie 18/12/2007 08:16:12
Mr Swinney was actually adressing a Globalscot function 30 minutes north of New York as was Philip Riddle of VisitScotland acompanied by around 80 GlobalScots who live and work in the US and a further 50 or so Scottish based companies who would like to further our links with the US. The Trump news broke whilst we were there and it lead to complete shock and dismay. If you want to kill investment in this country then let the politicking continue. Its disgraceful that a Liberal Robert Brown, brought up in rural Aberdeenshire should be the perpetrator of its commercial demise.
61

James,

Dundee 18/12/2007 08:17:14
The prestigious Wall Street Journal, with a worldwide circulation, has published an article bringing global attention to the enmity Donald Trump has encountered in Scotland against his plan to invest £1 billion in Aberdeenshire.

The good name of Scotland has now been globally besmirched due to the casting vote of a Lib Dem councillor who did not take account of the views of the majority of his constituents.

Instead of attempting to score ‘brownie points’ against Alex Salmond, Wendy Alexander, Annabel Goldie and Nicol Stephen would be better engaged trying to repair the damage done to Scotland’s image amongst the international business community.

Maybe, despite the Trump project rejection, they still expect foreign entrepreneurs to readily invest in Scotland?

Well done the Unionists - mission accomplished!!!!!

62

izzie,

dundee 18/12/2007 08:21:45
ok 55 what exactly in your opinion are the'bad' bits
of the union?
63

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/12/2007 08:22:16
#61 Morris. Me talking rubbish? If, as you say, all countries are independent, then what's the point of the SNP?

(I know there's none, of course, but am pleased to note that you implicitly agree, too).
64

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/12/2007 08:29:51
#66. Bad bits of the present Union include depriving Wales of certain rights already granted to Scotland; not giving Scotland tax raising and spending powers; not splitting England into similar ly semi autonomous regions; not making decisions regularly by referenda; not creating a viable federation such as we see in Switzerland; not controlling immigration; not pointing out that Briton has been united for thirty thousand years (bar a couple of hundred) and that nationalism is, in fact, anti nationalism; etc.
65

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 08:31:27
67

A predictably stupid and desperate response!

Credit where credit is due though.There might be somebody stupid enough to agree with you ...................................somewhere !
66

Boswall,

18/12/2007 08:35:05
IMPEACH SALMOND AND HIS CORRUPT LACKEYS
IMPEACH SALMOND AND HIS CORRUPT LACKEYS
IMPEACH SALMOND AND HIS CORRUPT LACKEYS
IMPEACH SALMOND AND HIS CORRUPT LACKEYS
IMPEACH SALMOND AND HIS CORRUPT LACKEYS
IMPEACH SALMOND AND HIS CORRUPT LACKEYS

Ahhh....that felt good.
67

A Better Way,

18/12/2007 08:38:36
And the Unionists have the nerve to raise their heads. Not one condemnation of a bunch of thieves who admitted they broke the law.

Heres another instance of Wendy and the other senior, for Scotland that is, Senior Politicians who have been caught embzzling thousands from the Scottish People. I rest my case.
Labour’s Scottish chief in new cash rowJason Allardyce
WENDY ALEXANDER, the Scottish Labour leader, faces a new crisis after it emerged that she and senior colleagues have given thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money to a company that helps with campaigns for the party.

Alexander is already under pressure to resign after she admitted receiving an illegal donation for her leadership campaign from Paul Green, a businessman based in Jersey who is not a UK voter.

Now it has emerged that she, along with eight senior colleagues, used parliamentary allowances to pay £5,000 to Computing for Labour (CfL), a company owned by the party and based at its London headquarters. It provides IT services that are offered free by the Scottish parliament.

CfL provides software which helps politicians to organise files on individual constituents.

It is used not only by 13 Labour members of the Scottish parliament (MSPs) but also by 260 Labour MPs and 16 Welsh assembly members. Between them, they pay the organisation an estimated £68,000 a year from their parliamentary allowances.

The money is paid even though similar software has been available free to MSPs of all parties through the Scottish parliament’s IT department since 2003. Westminster politicians said the only other systems available to them had to be paid for.

CfL helps Labour to campaign during elections, designing candidates’ websites and software that allows them to send text messages directly to voters. Its website states that it is “a membership organisation set up to encourage and support the use of computers so that they contribute to achieving the party’s aims”.

Parliamentary authorities pr
68

A Better Way,

18/12/2007 08:43:00
Continued from above.

Parliamentary authorities prohibit the use of office equipment paid out of allowances to be used for party purposes but have permitted payments to CfL on the grounds that MSPs require support to help to deal with constituents’ problems.

However, a former CfL employee said that income from elected representatives made the company’s election campaigning work possible. “Basically it pays for the salaries of the same employees who help out with political support at the time of election campaigns ? so in that sense it is all the same. It cross-subsidises it.”

Murdo Fraser, deputy leader of the Scottish Conservatives, said it was “astonishing” that taxpayers’ money appeared to be used to subsidise Labour campaigns.

He is demanding an investigation by the parliamentary authorities and calling for the practice to be banned, adding that Alexander has made “another serious misjudgment”.

69

Zambo,

Moscow 18/12/2007 08:44:39
I thought the issue was about protection of a wildlife reserve or a $1 billion investment in a luxury golf resort and whether to two are incompatible, have we all lost sight of the pro's and con's of the issue in favour of mud slinging and partisan politics ?
70

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

18/12/2007 08:46:38
The fat controller better watch that he dosent perjure himself, he better keep an eye the Lib Dems as well as it looks like they are carrying a "blade" for him.
He will need to attend the meeting with Lawyer Nicola and Sean (007) for protection.
(Who is 007 going to work for after seperation he works for the British Secret Service at the moment, here we have yet another valid reason to kick out the plans for seperation !)
71

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 08:54:00
69

Scotland was of course a seperate nation far longer than she was in the United Kingdom.She joined the UK (without consultation of (fact)and against the wishes of(fact) the Scots people) .

We have 300 years of Union preceeded by 1000 years of repetitive claims by England to her island! They did not recognise the legitimay of this seperate KINGDOM and yet their own line of ascendancy fell to the Stuarts!The arrogance alone speaks volumes!

You will have noticed that Scotlands geology is different to our Southern neighbour.Thats because we came from different parts of the land mass when the continents were forming and Hadrians Wall is in fact built where two plates collided and form a natural fortification ,(and you can see it if you ever go there).

All continents were joined ,if you go far enough back in time!
We probably have more in common with Canada than we do England!
The point is we are not so much an island as two islands which collided.Just because we are together through geology (we crashed)does not mean we should be politically.The democratically measured and expressed will of the people is what should apply.WE INTEND to do just that!

According to the Daily Express its over anyway !

You divided Ireland and they were the same island after all!Clearly its possible to do it there (although LONDON did make a pigs ear of it of course).
The problem with Unionists is they start at the conclusion they wish to arrive at and then construct a case which supports that conclusion.
I prefer honesty myself.
72

A Better Way,

18/12/2007 08:58:04
I can appreciate the weak LibDums following like sheep. But I gave the Tories a bit more credit for having some brains.

Attacking Salmond is an attack on the elected Leader of the Scottish Nation. It is an affront to democracy, but then again Scots are used to that from Westminster.

I have no doubts that this slur will expose the Unionist Parties as the London Pets they are. Support for Independance has probably climbed a fair bit since this was made public. Goodbye Nicol and Wendy.

Its now getting time for you Scottish Labour Supporters and LibDems Supporters to realise that the SNP is a Party that has a membership who range from Labour, Social Democrats, Tories and Liberal Democrats. We are united in our believe that the Scottish Nation is well served to run its own affairs better. After this Country of OURS becomes Independant there will be a breakup of the SNP which will make way for a General Election of a Government of your choice. A Scottish Government with a written Constitution that protects your rights as citizens of this Country. A Constitution that guarantees that the Scottish People are the Nation and that all decisions are in the interest of the Scottish People everytime.

You dont have any of that being run from London. You never did and never will.

Vote The Scots Way and Give the Future Scots a better future. IT IS TIME.
73

Linda,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 08:59:54
Nicol Stephen has had 6 days to produce a single shred of evidence to back up his allegations of sleaze. I can only assume he has none so he should apologise to Alex Salmond, John Swinney and Chief Planner Jim McKinnon.
74

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

18/12/2007 09:00:17
well morris are you going to get sent back to the factory in England where you were built after seperation?
75

Number 6,

Germany 18/12/2007 09:05:46
Just shows you the standard of person we have let infest Scottish Politics. Nothing on policies or how best to run the country, no let's have a witch hunt.
Well witch-finder Wendy you will unearth nothing untoward here. This is getting more like politics US style with each passing day. Once this "Investigation" is over I hope we can get back to running the country properly and also ensure that the labour party thieves cheats and liars go to jail where they belong.
76

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 09:07:34
76

Whilst I agree with much of what you say (as regards a global economy and the definition of "independence" which can never be absolute ) I am ruled partly from Edinburgh,partly from London and partly from Brussels.I can see clearly defined boundaries there,and United Nations will be most upset to learn that countries do not exist! They have almost the entire planet as members who think they do!
Trade between nations existed from the beginning of time and was limited only by the technology available at the time.That in itself does not mean that a country should or should not exist.The people who live there should decide and they do.
Whats right for Holland may not be right for Belgium etc. Maybe if we took this on board a few less wars might exist. Respect other peoples wishes to live as they choose and if its as a seperate nation (irrespective of what you consider that to mean) then so be it.
77

Euphoriaaa,

Highlands 18/12/2007 09:08:24
Its an absolute disgrace that this "newspaper" is refusing to cover this story:
"WENDY ALEXANDER, the Scottish Labour leader, faces a new crisis after it emerged that she and senior colleagues have given thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money to a company that helps with campaigns for the party.

Alexander is already under pressure to resign after she admitted receiving an illegal donation for her leadership campaign from Paul Green, a businessman based in Jersey who is not a UK voter.

Now it has emerged that she, along with eight senior colleagues, used parliamentary allowances to pay £5,000 to Computing for Labour (CfL), a company owned by the party and based at its London headquarters. It provides IT services that are offered free by the Scottish parliament."

From The Times 16/12/07
78

subrosa,

18/12/2007 09:11:15
#24 Yer bang on the button there. I should think Mr Salmond will enjoy his interrogation and also enjoy the investigation into the operation of Aberdeenshire Council when that occurs.
79

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

18/12/2007 09:12:28
Morris you maybe ruled by Edinburgh / Brussels / Westminster but you were built in a factory by the Tyne by Englishmen.
80

inoui,

Bordeaux 18/12/2007 09:13:15
Any excuse for rival party whingeing. Not doing themselves any favours, especially a desperate Wendy.
81

Gtj,

Dundee 18/12/2007 09:14:46
My main concern is what are the Unionist children going to do at playtime when Scotland is Independent.

Maybe they will get to bring games in to occupy their time.
82

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 09:15:41
80
I would respond to that more if I had a clue as to what point you are trying to make !

We are all related and DNA can be traced back to less than one dozen common ancestors.
I however was born in LEITH.I claim to be Scots by virtue of the fact that I was born in Scotland. Just exactly what difference it makes I have no idea anyway.People living here can be any creed religion colour and anything else they like as far as I am concerned.They are citizens of Scotland and the United Kingdom and are legitimately entitled to choose one or both.
My partner is however from Mersyside.
She also is a citizen of Scotland.She lives here .

WHAT is your point?
83

Nikostratos,

18/12/2007 09:21:27
#82 morris

He has lost the plot again..Some one should explain to him about Global Capitalism..Which is the real 'Rulers of any nation'. As evidenced in the snp prostrating themselves in the name of Scotland Before Mr Trump. Who then walked all over them..Clump..Clump.Clump


Appropos the sleaze Invesigation it doesnt matter how many comments you vile nats post in support of your 'Leader' . When he is the dock he will be alone lets be honest if he had committed the most heinous of crimes you lot would still give him 100% support.
The rule of law in a Democratic society does not fit with the 'Nationalist' beliefs.

And thats why you lot can never be allowed to win and you never will
84

Skatedad,

18/12/2007 09:25:28
Trump should spend a few quid on a decent"Irish Jig" before he comes back.
The Archie McPherson comb over does him no favours!!
85

subrosa,

18/12/2007 09:28:27
#54 A' that sun's gone tae yer heid.
86

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 09:30:08
Nos 74 Zambo and 89 Clarry
Much is being made of the SSSI and the need to protect these "shifting sand dunes".
Having lived in Aberdeen for a while we have seen the extraordinary lengths that the local authority went to over a number of years planting marram grass to halt the movement of these dunes.
See http://www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/heritagemanagement/erosion/2.2.shtml
87

Non!!,

East Britain 18/12/2007 09:30:57
If I were Donald Trump I would look elsewhere. Hopefully somewhere with fewer political pygmies.
88

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 09:31:37
This will be a walk in the park for our Leader! Even if there was some jiggery pokery going on, the opposition are too incompetent to exploit anything!

The fact this whole Scotsman Trump/Salmond campaign is a smokescreen to hide the real villain (Mooth o' the Sooth), means there's no substance behind any complaint about impropriety.

Alex Salmond is still the best thing ever to happen to Scotland and the rancid Sottish Unionists better get used to it!
89

James,

Dundee 18/12/2007 09:32:01
Chorus.-Awa' Whigs, awa'!
Awa' Whigs, awa'!
Ye're but a pack o' traitor louns,
Ye'll do nae gude at a'.

Our thrissles flourish'd fresh and fair,
And bonie bloom'd our roses;
But Whigs cam' like a frost in June,
An' wither'd a' our posies.
Awa' Whigs, &c.

Our ancient crown's fa'en in the dust-
Deil blin' them wi' the stoure o't!
An' write their names in his black beuk,
Wha gae the Whigs the power o't.
Awa' Whigs, &c.

Our sad decay in church and state
Surpasses my descriving:
The Whigs cam' o'er us for a curse,
An' we hae done wi' thriving.
Awa' Whigs, &c.

Grim vengeance lang has taen a nap,
But we may see him wauken:
Gude help the day when royal heads
Are hunted like a maukin!
Awa' Whigs, &c.

Robert Burns

Seems that little has changed!

90

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 09:34:22
90

Global Capitalism exists whether we are part of the United Kingdom or a seperate Scottish nation.
Even the village idiot should be able to work that one out.
What we decide as nations is where and how do we fit in.Some fit in better than others.
The suggestion that the United Kingdom could exist as it does, but its component parts could not, does not even require a basic understanding of economics.ITS JUST STUPID!

The Irish Republic and Norway are two nations nearby who are living proof of what seperation can entail.They are amongst the highest standards of living in the world.

Your argument (whatever it is,Im still trying to work that one out) matters not,even if you did have a point, because the countries I mentioned are proof of where I want to go exists!

I do not accept that other countries can do this but Scotland could not.
Our planet is composed of nations(hundreds of them) which means that billions agree with me OR THEY WOULD NOT BE DOING THIS!
91

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 09:37:03
This is probably the best compromise - it avoids there having to be a full-blown enquiry whilst giving MSPs the opportunity to question the First Minister about the exact circumstances surrounding the decision. I am sure Alex Salmond would be happy for it to happen too - it may mean an uncomfortable few hours but that would be preferable to this dragging on further. It would also allow him the opportunity to clear the air.
92

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 09:41:25
He's in deep trouble now.
93

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 09:44:49
I find it bizarre that Nats think they are winning the PR game here - they are not. Most people I've spoken to, and that includes those who voted SNP at the last election, feel that the First Minister does not come out smelling of roses. It's obviously not the same stench that is coming from the Alexander situation but I am sure that some will see this as a black mark against the SNP - especially considering they have played the whiter than white card before.

There is still time for that to change - a hearing may well satisfy the questions that many have - a lot will depend on Salmond's respinses and performance.

Should make interesting viewing!!
94

Rob7,

England 18/12/2007 09:45:03
Alex is a great guy. Please ignore all these nasty comments and bring on English independence.
95

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 09:45:41
#101 "respinses" should be "responses"
96

,

18/12/2007 09:46:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

Zambo,

Moscow 18/12/2007 09:48:31
1 billion quid is more than 197 million invested for EVER man, woman and child in Scotland (or almost enough to build another parliment building at the foot of Arthur's Seat)!
98

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 09:48:59
#52 Welcome to Scotland.
99

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

18/12/2007 09:49:40
If it was another 1 billion investment in civil servants I bet Nicol and Co would have accepted this, sand dunes or not
100

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 09:50:14
99
What will happen here is Alex Salmond will emerge form this smelling of roses .He might get a wee run for his money from Annabelle Goldie ,but the rest Salmond will eat for breakfast and they all know it!

Even collectivley they are no match for him.

I never realised just how desperate the Unionists were. Independence is coming NOTHING COULD BE CLEARER.

Im looking forward to this now!

Id like to say Nicol shot himself in the foot,but he had the gun barrel facing up the way!

101

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

18/12/2007 09:51:09
I am returning to Scotland tonight so does anyone know where I can buy healthy food and a knife proof vest?
102

Spotter,

18/12/2007 09:55:26
AND... ladies and gentlemen

Its GAME SET and MATCH to the SNP

After a few tense rallies Alex Salmond and the government are now more popular than ever!!!

Amazing!! :-)... and I am splitting my sides

Also how long have folk tried to point out that the Dim Libs were numpties... and then, and then they do our work for us...hilarious :-)
103

Calum10,

18/12/2007 10:01:05
There are clear allegations of improprietry, sleaze and illegality...........but no independent inquiry headed by a judge as initially promised. Strange that?????????????????

The LibDems, the Tories and Labour have all backed-down in the face of criticism by Donald Trump. Donald speaks, the Unionists whimper their knees shake. What a bunch of irresponsible fools Nicol Stephen, Annabel Goldie and the rest of Unionist numpties have been on this matter. They are simply out of their depth.

When you realise that this story has featured in the Wall Street Journal you know that Scotland is now in big trouble. The Unionists don't give damn about Scotland, Scots, the Scottish economy and the nation's future prospects. They care only for their own self-interest. They have seriously damaged the good name of Scotland.

Nicol Stephen, Annabel Goldie and Wendy Alexander are no longer a national embarrassment. They have made it to the global stage, they are now an international embarrassment.

ALL UNIONISTS ARE FOOLS.

104

DaveK,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 10:06:58
#111 ALL UNIONISTS ARE FOOLS.

Please refrain from such gross general statements, as one could quite easily claim that by the same token all nationalists are small minded racists.

105

Bigmannn,

Fife 18/12/2007 10:07:04
AJ Fife at 931

You are wrong-the real villian is Macavity Bean-all the others are minor players who bow to his every command-dont you get it yet?
106

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:09:07
111. Actually, I think you'll find that Scotland is in big trouble as it now has a First Minister who's principles clearly have a price.

He gave Souter veto power over the 2007 Manifesto when he handed over £500,000.

And soon we'll see what he is doing for Trump to make sure that £1billion scheme goes into his constituency. So far we have secret meetings and private access to Government officials....
107

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/12/2007 10:09:33
Morris should quit while he is ahead; except that he never is and has in any case an empty one (case and head, that is).

Accepting that no nation is truly independent any longer, and accepting that some 'independent' nations are basket cases (Zimbabwe, etc), and accepting that geology has nothing to do with geneology, and accepting that Briton has been a nation since long before 'Scotland' existed, and that therefore the SNP is really an anti-nationalist cult, is going to make Morris' life just too much, I fear. Still, with him as an ally the SNP needs no further enemies.
108

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:10:21
113. who's = whose...I really should check what I'm typing. Tut.
109

Calum10,

18/12/2007 10:12:08
#112

You prove my point.

ALL UNIONISTS ARE FOOLS + 1.
110

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 18/12/2007 10:14:47
From the P and J:


"Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander was last night described as a "lame duck leader" because she has failed to challenge the SNP Government over its handling of Donald Trump's controversial £1billion golf resort application.

The MSP, who is currently awaiting the outcome of an Electoral Commission investigation into a £950 donation to her leadership campaign, has not uttered a word on the subject since the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats started questioning First Minister Alex Salmond about it nearly two weeks ago."

Where's Wendy?


111

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:19:32
So, Salmond's behaviour is not now worthy of an independent inquiry? Makes you wonder why the unionists were seeking to make such a fuss, and then declined to vote for an inquiry....?
112

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:22:13
113 "he gave Souter veto power of the manifesto" - really, I missed that. Can you provide a wee press reference to that deal? OR did you make it up as your feverish delusions reached their premature orgasm?
113

malcolmcean,

18/12/2007 10:24:08
Federalist writes: "I find it bizarre that Nats think they are winning the PR game here - they are not. Most people I've spoken to, and that includes those who voted SNP at the last election, feel that the First Minister does not come out smelling of roses. It's obviously not the same stench that is coming from the Alexander situation but I am sure that some will see this as a black mark against the SNP"

This is pure projection.

Nicol Stephen, in the areas that matter (the NE), is committing electoral suicide. It is almost absurdly pointless. It shows just how politically inept he is. He is trying to shore up the unionist alliance by taking the heat off of Alexander with this stunt (which it most assuredly is). He will, in the long term damage it. For, which self-respecting voter would want to align themselves with someone who seems to want to put narrow party advantage over national gain?

Once again the inept Scottish opposition have presented the SNP with a PR victory. They have very neatly managed to present themselves to the public as political opportunists who put their hatred of the SNP government before the welfare of the country. By doing this, they have also drawn attention to the fact that the SNP government are going out of their way to grow the economy (and this will be even more laudable once this charade of an enquiry show that, unlike the Labour party's illegal funding issues, they have not broken the law).

The juxtaposition between the corrupt and party-advantage seeking (and detrimental to the economic well-being of Scotland) LibLab pact and the hard-working national government of Scotland will not be lost on the general public.

At the moment this is simply a minor PR set-back for the Liberals. As the months unfold, and as the picture of Liberal counterproductive (to the economic health of the nation) gurning and bitterness reveals itself more clearly, this will be an unmittigated PR disaster for the Liberals.
114

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:26:41
115 "Briton has been a nation before Scotland existed". Fascinating.
115

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 10:28:13
PR victory?

You really are living in cloud-cuckoo land.
116

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 10:29:09
It's all over for Alex.
117

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:30:17
125 Gerry

if the allegations are so serious, why did the unionists not simply vote for an independent inquiry?

118

Transparent?,

Scotland 18/12/2007 10:32:16
Quote from this story:

"But Mr Trump is said to be increasingly annoyed at the "meddling" of politicians, ... "

Why therefore did Trump's represetatives meet with Salmond?

Perhaps Salmond is not a politician, after all!

119

Rasco,

18/12/2007 10:32:25
"COMPUTING FOR LABOUR" STORY ON THIS FROM SCOTSMAN PLEASE ALSO COMMENT FROM NICOL.NOW WE KNOW WHY WENDY WANTED MORE MONEY FOR LABOUR
120

malcolmcean,

18/12/2007 10:32:36
This is a much more accurate picture (than the comically partisan musings of the Scotsman above) of what has been happening with this issue in todays Herald (from Douglas Fraser, no less, one not known for his love of the SNP):

"Nicol Stephen's call for a judicial inquiry into the Scottish Government's handling of Donald Trump's application to build a £1bn golf resort was scuppered yesterday.

The Scottish Liberal Democrat leader's call for a 28-day independent inquiry into the way the planning application had been dealt with headed by a judge failed to win the backing of the Tories.

Instead, Holyrood's local government committee is likely to carry out an inquiry, at the request of the Conservatives. First Minister Alex Salmond could be summoned to give evidence .

advertisementOne of Mr Trump's closest advisers said he was "appalled" at the way Mr Stephen has conducted himself since the government's decision to take control of the planning application.

The Trump organisation dismissed Mr Stephen's comments as "malicious, inaccurate and potentially destructive"."


Comment: As I said above, the Liberals really have managed to present the SNP government with a major PR victory (something that we, perhaps, could have done without. It has not been good for Scotland's image to have political pygmies like Nicol etc displaying to the world what an inept and intellectually-redundant opposition we have - it is just embarrassing)

121

James,

Dundee 18/12/2007 10:32:56
#125

Over indulgence in wishful thinking Gerry!

Must be the time of the year.

I think "it's all over Nicol/Wendy"(delete as appropriate) would be be more accurate, and likely!
122

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 18/12/2007 10:36:24
Oh, in case you were wondering about what was going on during the news black-out on Wendy Sleaze:

New Donation Woes for Wendy - 2007-12-16

Commenting on new revelations in today's Sunday papers concerning Wendy Alexander's campaign donations, SNP MSP Roseanna Cunningham said the reports raised new questions about Labour's funding crisis.

In the Sunday Times it is reported that Wendy Alexander and several senior colleagues used parliamentary allowances to pay £5000 to a company that helps with campaigns for the Labour Party; and in the News of the World it is revealed that Lord Murray Elder, a Labour peer who donated to Wendy Alexander's leadership campaign, is also a political advisor to the Electoral Commission - which is currently considering an inquiry into the illegal donation which Wendy received.

In a further development the Sunday Times also reports that the company which acquired the £16 billion Crossrail scheme has given more than £120,000 to the Labour party to help to gain access to ministers and key officials during a lobbying campaign for a new rail link.

Commenting Ms Cunningham said:

"These new revelations about Wendy Alexander and several of her key lieutenants using Parliamentary Allowances to fund a Labour Party campaign organisation deepen the crisis around her failing leadership.

"Ms Alexander has already conceded that an offence was committed, for which she bears legal responsibility, in terms of the unlawful donation from Paul Green. And these latest stories raise a whole new set of questions. It is high time that the Electoral Commission got to grips with these serious matters.

"This along with the revelations that the company in charge of Crossrail donated money to Labour because they believed it would open up access to Labour Ministers only open up new flanks in Labour's funding crisis.

"Wendy Alexander has now become a central figure in the crisis engulfing Labour in Scotland and throughout the UK.

Commentin
123

Calum10,

18/12/2007 10:39:49
DONALD TRUMP DEMANDS APOLOGY FROM NICOL STEPHEN

George Sorial, Donald Trump's representative has demanded an apology from Mr Stephen over the "sleaze" allegation. He said: "What does Nicol Stephen mean when he uses the word 'sleaze' to describe our dealings in Scotland? We have never been so insulted and demand an immediate explanation and apology for his reckless and unsubstantiated attack on our character."

Oh dear, oh dear Nicol. Your are a fool.
124

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:39:59
120. So you are denying the £500,000 donation from the owner of the Stagecoach Group in March this year, had ANYTHING to do with the 2003 manifesto pledge to re-regulate buses being dropped from the 2007 manifesto, just a few weeks later?

Dropped by Salmond even though this very same policy had been voted through in the SNP 2006 Conference?

It's all here:
http://www.spinwatch.org/content/view/4170/9/

and here:
http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/site/id/5770/title/GREENS_BACK_RE_REGULATION_OF_BUSES_AND_QUESTION_SNP_BUS_U_TURN.html

It indeed looks to me, as well a great number of other people, that Salmond prefers cold hard cash over the wishes of the Party members.

As you are one of the die-hard SNP supporters, your ability to look at this objectively is not expected!
125

Chris Stephenson,

Highlands 18/12/2007 10:40:11
We would not want to un-invent Saint Andrews.
We should wheel and deal with Trump and play every trick in the pack to get the right
deal for Scotland.

Let's leave Salmond and Ford alone.

They are doing what they think is right.
126

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 18/12/2007 10:40:41
Oh, another story not run by the Unionist press; the SNP has overtaken Labour for the first time in a poll for a Westminster election:

"The YouGov poll in the Sunday Times includes a Scottish sample of 132 and was conducted between the 13th and 14th of December 2007. It shows the following:

Westminster General Election

SNP 32%
Labour 31%
Con 16%
LD 16%
Green 3%
UKIP 1%
BNP 0%
Other 1%"

Source: http://www.snp.org/press-releases/2007/poll-suggests-snp-overtaking-labour-for-westminster
127

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:43:54
133 [contd] And now that Trump's shiny new political party play-thing are going to steamroller this billion pound scheme despite the destruction of an SSSI, the coalition with the Greens is about to die a quick death.

And then the SNP will be all on its own.
128

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 18/12/2007 10:44:54
Cheap selfish political attention seekers lead by Nicol Steven, showing disunity in Scotland.
129

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:45:00
135. And that is published on which website?

LOL!
130

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:45:06
133 No, don't see any mention to "Souter given right of veto over SNP manifesto" anywhere there. Perhaps you just made that up?

131

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:46:07
139 A site as impartial as the "scottishgreens.org" or "spinners r us" sites that you reference above perhaps?
132

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:46:18
And how many people were asked? 132?
133

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:47:13
139 EV, you have a go.

If the allegations (Salmond used a car, Salmond met Trump) are so serious, why did the unionist parties not vote for an independent inquiry?
134

Number 6,

Germany 18/12/2007 10:47:21
The problem with LABOUR is that they cannot get it into their thick corrupt sleaze infested heads, that it is possible to meet a multi -millionaire without taking a bribe or offering favours. It just can't be imagined by these common theives that there is a better way of conducting business.

English voice#139 Can't you read the link ? or are you still too busy laughing.
135

malcolmcean,

18/12/2007 10:49:50
Post 132 quotes:

"George Sorial, Donald Trump's representative has demanded an apology from Mr Stephen over the "sleaze" allegation. He said: "What does Nicol Stephen mean when he uses the word 'sleaze' to describe our dealings in Scotland? We have never been so insulted and demand an immediate explanation and apology for his reckless and unsubstantiated attack on our character.""

I take it that this was the Press and Journal that carried this quote, Calum? This is the 'national' North East broadsheet (more readers than the herald and the Scotsman), isn't it?

The people in the North East must be furious with Nicol and the Liberals for their behaviour. It has taken so long for the Liberals to build up a power base there, and now one inept political stunt later and the whole thing is collapsing around them.

I never thought that the Liberals and Labour would fall apart so quickly after they lost the election. I thought that they would provide some decent opposition given that they had had the experience of government - makes one think what in the name of the wee man they were actually doing when in government. I reckon it was the civil servants fighting a rear-guard action against the incompetence and ineptitude of the 'executive' which stopped Scotland from sinking into the mire.
136

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 10:52:27
145 Ecclestone, Mittal, Hindujas, Cash for Peerages, Abrahams...no, you are way off the mark there.

Or perhaps you mean McConnell and his helicopter tours of Scotland for Trump. I demand an inquiry.... (by the local government committee) (and a passport for my housekeeper)
137

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:53:43
142. As you wish.

Well, there was also this:

SNP UNDER ATTACK AFTER BUS U-TURN

THE SNP were embroiled in a "cash for policies" row last night after dropping a key transport pledge that would have hurt the commercial interests of their main financial backer.

The party's plans for reregulating Scotland's buses were missing from its manifesto, which was published after the SNP accepted a £500,000 donation from Brian Souter, the owner of Stagecoach. The U-turn has been attacked by rival politicians who are demanding to know if the donation and policy shift are linked.

The row centres on the Nationalists' plan to reform Scotland's ailing transport network. Delegates at last October's SNP conference in Perth backed a resolution on re-regulating bus services, a policy that was also included in the Nationalists' 2003 election manifesto.

However, the policy was absent when the party published its manifesto earlier this month.

.....
138

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 18/12/2007 10:56:49
English Voice,

Do you have a point? Do you really expect the SNP not to publish these poll results on its own website? The poll was done by YouGov - a respected polling organisation. Are you suggesting the methodology is wrong? You might wonder why unionist organisations are not commissioning/publishing polls? Is it because the outcomes are not positive news stories for them?

As for the polling size, yes it is small but it is only 1% different from the previous one which had a sample of 1, 111 people.

Here are both polls compared:
Westminster General Election

SNP 32%
Labour 31%
Con 16%
LD 16%
Green 3%
UKIP 1%
BNP 0%
Other 1%


While the sample is small, it reflects the finding of the full Scottish YouGov poll commissioned by the SNP, conducted from 28-30 November 2007, sample size 1,111.

Westminster voting intentions (change from 2005 election in brackets)

SNP 32% +14
Labour 32% -8
Con 19% +3
LD 12% -11
Other 4%


Perhaps rather than try to discredit a highly regarding polling organisation you might prefer to deal with reality?

139

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 10:59:33
147. ...and back to the old SNP defence that as Labour are corrupt, it's okay for the SNP to be corrupt too.

Scottish politics at its very finest.
140

malcolmcean,

18/12/2007 10:59:45
Do we think that if the heat on Nicol get too much, he will resign?

He doesn't seem to me to be someone who has the political conviction and personal fortitude which would enable him to weather this storm-of-his-own-making (unlike the Labour party and those who have committed criminal offences - corruption is so endemic in the Labour party - according to John Major - that they actually think that it is no big deal to break the law)
141

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:00:06
148 But as you are so fond of pointing out, the SNP do not have a majority in the parliament. How can they implement policies without unionist support?

You quoted "scottishgreeens.org" website as an authoritative source above. Do you endorse their section on Scottish independence, or are only parts of that neutral and objective website to be trusted?
142

AJM,

18/12/2007 11:00:06
I have read the SNP comments here with the usual sadness with regards the accusations of impropriaty in that the only political weapon that they have is to shout about the everyone else rather than look towards there own party. This story as been brought about by SNP ministers themselves. The fact that it involved Trump is relevant as the way he does business this was likely to happen under Labour as the SNP.
Look up the New York Times on Trump and see that he is treating Scotland like he does any little local council in the US.
The sad fact is that the SNP are letting Scotland look like like a little local US county, "Trump sir how high do you want me to jump?" If there were concerns, they should be looked into. One of his developments in the US has been described as the “raping of the beach.”
143

James,

Dundee 18/12/2007 11:01:17
THE US property tycoon behind plans for a £1 billion golf resort near Aberdeen warned politicians yesterday that “malicious and inaccurate” attacks could scupper the controversial venture.

Donald Trump’s comments were aimed at Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Nicol Stephen, who wants an investigation into First Minister Alex Salmond’s role after the planning application was “called in” by the Scottish Government after being rejected by Aberdeenshire Council.

The Tories also want an inquiry and will tomorrow try to refer the matter to Holyrood’s local government committee.

A broadside against Mr Stephen yesterday said, “The Trump Organisation is dismayed at the political attacks.

“These attacks are more than misguided, they are malicious, inaccurate and potentially destructive and they threaten to once again endanger a £1 billion project which has the overwhelming backing of the north-east of Scotland.

“The politician responsible should cease and desist before real and permanent damage is done.”

Source Dundee Courier - that other broadsheet daily that out sell the Scotsman.

144

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:02:20
153 Labour have admitted several breaches of electoral law. Admitted illegality. The "computers for Labour" sleaze is a breach of the parliamentary allowance. Use of parliamentary offices for Labour party fund raising is also a breach of that code.

Would you like to tell us which laws you allege have been broken or which ministerial/ MSP code of conduct is alleged to have been broken here?
145

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 11:03:37
"#145 Number 6,Germany 18/12/2007 10:47:21

The problem with LABOUR is that they cannot get it into their thick corrupt sleaze infested heads, that it is possible to meet a multi-millionaire without taking a bribe or offering favours."

I have to disagree - your average voter views all politicians with suspicion. They will view the SNP meeting big business exactly the same as Labour meeting big business.

That's why it is important from an SNP point of view to clear the air - if they don't they too will be tarred with the same black brush that Labour are tarred with.
146

malcolmcean,

18/12/2007 11:03:44
The charming English Vopice writes: "it's okay for the SNP to be corrupt too."

Have the SNP committed any illegal offences? Have they undone manifesto pledges after receiving money from big business (Eccleston)? Have they unlawfully accepted party donations?

No. They haven't.
147

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:04:32
150 EV

senior Labour, Tory and Lib Dem MSPs backed the government decision to review the plan.

The Lib Dem leader of Aberdeenshire council backed the decision to review the plan.

The rural affairs committee of the parliament backed the decision to review the plan.

880% of local opinion and the full council back the plan.

Salmond used his car to go to a meeting, and met with Trump, within the ministerial code.

What is the "sleaze", self interest or breach of law/ code that you allege?
148

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 11:04:52
It's curtains for Alex.
149

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 11:05:15
"#154 The politician responsible should cease and desist before real and permanent damage is done.”

The tone of that sums up Trup to a t - threaten, bully and intimidate.
150

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 11:06:00
Wendy won't be jailed. Alex might.
151

kimba,

18/12/2007 11:06:02
This time alex will not wriggle and bluff his way out of this, it was only a matter of time before he put his foot in it,and his arrogance got the better of him.
152

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 11:06:59
#158 Yet again you confuse support for the plan with support for the process - one can easily support the devlopment but be unhappy/unsatisfied at how that decision was reached.
153

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:07:48
149. Commissioned by whom? The SNP?

154

James,

Dundee 18/12/2007 11:08:17
#161 Gerry - Still writing your 'wishlist' letter to Santa I see!

Prediction: Watch Nicol being hung out to dry by his fellow vipers in the New Whig Party.

Wendy: Stay or go, it matters not - she IS finished.
155

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:08:59
157. YES, THEY HAVE!
156

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:10:39
158. Just finished the SNP Indoctrination course, have we?

"880% of local opinion"! Really, that much?
157

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:10:48
166 OH NO THEY HAVEN'T.

Which law or part of the minsiterial code is alleged to have been broken?

Why did the review decision have all party support?
158

subrosa,

18/12/2007 11:12:00
#91 No need to shout. Dearie me, if it so distresses you to think Mr Salmond will not handle this interrogation well then it's your problem.

I am fully aware (along with the rest of the world now) about inward investment in Scotland. Now the Wall Street Journal has picked it up the reality and standard of our politicians are there for all to see.

As for my life, I've got one, a comfortable one but I've worked hard for over 40 years to acquire it.

Your comment at #91 says a great deal more about you than me :)
159

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:12:14
167 80%.
160

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 18/12/2007 11:12:43
Having read posts# 129 & 130 will all the doubters who characteristically have tried to crucify the probity of the SNP MSPs in this controversy now apologise? In addition will they remember to do likewise when the matter is concluded, Nicol Stephen takes a hammering next time round and Cllr Ford goes back to making model trains and railways, just like the pea brained "little adolf" he thinks he is. If this is the best the LibDems can to for the future of Scotland and in particular the North East, Heaven help our futures. "Let them eat grass" comes to mind!
161

kimba,

18/12/2007 11:14:01
157. They committed the cardinal sin,they got into power by promising independence,this will NEVER happen,not in Salmonds life time!
162

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:14:20
161 Odd. Labour have admitted to multiple counts of illegal acts.

Salmond has not broken the law, nor has anyone suggested he has. Nor has he breached any code of conduct?

I wonder if Labour will cooperate better with the police than they did on Cash for Peerages. The Met police said that they did not receieve cooperation. Very odd for a party "tough on crime".
163

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:15:12
172. What do you know about (a) the state of the FM's life expectancy (b) the result of future votes and or referenda?
164

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:19:05
Isn't it weird that Wendy sent £40,000 of tax payers' money to "Computers for Labour", an organisation housed in London Labour HQ, when the parliament offers free IT support.

Stranger that the spread-sheet which listed her 19 donations of £950 (including two columns, "one for name/address" and one for "name/address for electoral commission") was created by her husband, because her staff couldn't make one? You would think that for £40,000 they could have provided her with a spreadsheet? Most perplexing.
165

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:19:08
Has anyone seen Nova Scotia about recently?
166

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 11:19:50
kimba#162,

What a fool you are....don't you realise the SNP are prepared for your Unionist dirty tricks campaign? Alex Salmond has more integrity in his pinky than the rest of the opposition put together.

He's the best thing ever to happen to Scotland!

You should think about moving your plump frame up to Ecosse and enjoy the land of milk and honey!! And yes, chocolate too....just for you!
167

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:20:57
173. That's right.

If there was any wrongdoing, there would be calls for a Parliamentary Inquiry, wouldn't there.

Salmond is innocent! Free the Aberdeen One!
168

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:25:32
180 Yes, I think it is in Canada.

181 SHUT UP!!!!!!!! RIGHT!!!!!
169

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:26:47
179 Which law or code do you suggest has been broken?

Why have unionists not voted for an independent inquiry?

Simple questions you seem to be having alot of trouble answering.
170

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 11:27:51
Alex had better come clean.
171

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:28:38
Why are you calling me AM2? Are you suggesting Nova Scotia is yet ANOTHER fake user created by the SNP mob?

He isn't real?

What silly little child would do that?

And why when there is so much support for the SNP! What with only 0.4% of the Scottish population bothering to download the SNP's much publicised White Paper, STILL a minority of electoral support and independence support despite months of nationalist spin and propaganda.....where are the SNP's accounts by the way? Shouldn't they have been released by now? Why hide these accounts if you have nothing to hide.

Anyway....back to Salmond ignoring the SNP membership and dropping a manifesto pledge in favour of £500,000 from a raving homophobic zealot who uses corrupt practices to remove any competition to his overpriced bus services.
172

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 11:29:45
165

James, I agree. Good riddance to Wendy. Good riddance to Alex.
173

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:30:16
186 English Voice

you said the other day "multiple user IDs are now harder to register on this site"

Despite 3 times of asking, you have not told us how you know this?
174

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 11:31:08
156 The Federalist
Absolutely.
There is no doubt that this is what the Opposition in Scotland are hoping for.

Its unimportant if Salmond is innocent of any wrong doing.Hes guilty of threatening their gravy train, and nepotism etc, and they are powerless to counter him, unless they can paint him ,and the SNP in the same light.They are only going to get away with this, with people who are too dumb to recognise the real motive here,and it might impress some,possibly quite a lot, but it does clearly show how worried they are,when they stoop to these tactics.
I agree however the SNP would suffer badly should they be unable to counter the onslaught that will be vociferous from the combined Unionist Alliance. I think it will be a temporary set back at best.

I personally think when the New Labour activists waken up to a Conservative government at Westminster, the few left with any brains in the Labour Party will quit.

I can hear the Labour activists saying So you removed the ones with brains! So what ?
99.999% of us are still here!! YOU SAID IT GUYS!
175

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:31:32
186 You said yesterday it was 0.8% of the population. Has the population doubled since then?

Seems quite alot for a political document.
176

Zambo,

Moscow 18/12/2007 11:32:36
An investment of +197 million (Scottish) pounds for every man, woman and child in Scotland is about to go down the tubes, while too many people (here) and in the Scottish parliament, rearrange the deck chairs. WOW!
177

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:34:36
183. Democracies work through parliamentary scrutiny.

Clearly the SNP, within just seven months, are exhibiting dictatorial tendancies having already started to remove local control of local finances and local services, overruling the decisions of local councils, refusing to accept a parliamentary inquiry (and calling democracy "a waste of time"!), selling out the party members' wishes for cold hard cash, withholding public accounts from public scrutiny, trying to force through a referendum bypassing parliament.....it's getting more and more like something you see in Zimbabwe!
178

James,

Dundee 18/12/2007 11:35:13
Any news on the LibDems and their overspending 'oversight' on the Dunfemline West campain?

179

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:36:59
190. You inability to read is no excuse.

Only 0.4% of the population has downloaded the SNP's much publicised White Paper on independence. 0.4%.
Or just 25,000 out of a population of 5,100,000.

And this is an SNP figure, maybe we should indeed halve it to get a more accurate number.
180

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:37:52
193 You say "over ruling decisions of local authorities". In what way? The full Aberdeenshire council voted over whelmingly to support the plan, and the leader of the council (A Lib Dem) welcomed the review. As the government has not ruled on the plan, how have they "over ruled" the council? the only way they would do that is if they scrapped it?
181

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:41:14
196 No, you said 0.8 of the population. Your inability to count, reason or express a coherent thought is no excuse for your tendency to make up crazed statements and set them in cyber print, like some overly loquacious acid casualty in the throws of a particularly colourful dissociative break from reality.

No answers I see on why all parties have backed the review, or which law/ code you allege has been broken, or why the unionists have not voted for an independent enquiry?
182

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 11:41:57
172

According to the Daily Express it could happen in his lunch hour, never mind his lifetime.When are you going to get it through your head that we are a democracy and we decide collectively what we think ,not you !
History shows that any party(and this applies universally almost) which achieves 40% of support soon becomes the majority.
I agree its only an opinion poll but the figure recorded by YouGov was 60% .That would break the UK in two if reflected in a referendum,and theres NOTHING Westminster could do about it .International law would apply.


You might think it helps your cause by stating that it cannot happen, or maybe its comforting to you,but its clearly RUBBISH!
183

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:42:26
195 The loose thread on English Voice's patchy and stained underpants has had more hits than the Lib Dem web site in the past week. Mostly from him.
184

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:42:35
188. Ah, so YOU are Nova Scotia, aren't you!

Trying to make Salmond-worship look popular, are we?

How ****ing tedious of you.
185

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/12/2007 11:43:18
#123 Highland Scot. In 55BCE Caesar invaded a nation called Briton. Scot-land didn't exist until sometime after the invasion by the Scotti in 700-ish CE. (Hush, though. Don't tell the SNP. They have enough nightmares already).
186

kimba,

18/12/2007 11:45:54
174,Ayrshire. "The survival of the union is paramount",so say Brown and Cameron,so do you think Scotland orEngland for that matter will be allowed a referendum!
187

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 11:46:47
EV - you are simply hilarious. The amount of straw clutching this morning has surpased all known previous levels of your singleminded desperation.

How many usernames you on now EV? Your desperation reeks of old laundry like Kesias, sorry kimbas students flat.
188

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:48:00
200. Cling to that, why don't you.

With the SNP riding high in the polls, with the relentless spin, lies and propaganda eminating from SNP Central.....there is STILL minority support for independence.

And as you are clearly an expert on international law, maybe you would like to quote the relevant international law so that we can all learn from your great wisdom.
189

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 11:50:11
The way EV is clinging onto this thread, you would think it's his last hope for survival!

DIE WITH DIGNITY MAN!!!!!!!
190

kimba,

18/12/2007 11:50:12
203,Spook, Why do you support Scottish independence,what makes you think Scotland would be any better off?
191

Chris Stephenson,

Highland 18/12/2007 11:52:01
I just do not understand some of the people who comment in this space:-

They are keen to score political points and bring down the politicians rather than support what could be great for Scotland.

Let's get back to the point:
We want this investment but we need to make sure that the whole development is good for us.
Let Salmond and other politicians in power have the space to negotiate and save this great opertunity.

The whole world can see these pages. It is embarrassing.
192

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 11:52:10
206. One username at a time with changes only because certain SNP children keep on hacking into my username.

Very mature stuff from the Salmond Youth. Although it is consistent with them using multiple usernames to make themselves look popular.

Isn't it, Ayrshire Scot.
193

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:52:27
205 I see. Do Brown and Cameron get alot of votes on this in a referedum by dint of their position? "Allowed" a referendum. Doesn't sound very democratic Kimba.
194

subrosa,

18/12/2007 11:54:19
#203 Hi Spook. Where have you been? Stuck in Santas's grotto?
195

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:55:04
202 I asked you why you posted that "multiple user IDs ar enow harder to register on this site" - you then mention "Nova Scotia". Odd. Odder than you have not answered questions on which law/ code you allege to be broken, how the governemnt "over ruled" a council when it hasn't ruled and the coucil, and its leader, and all parties represented on it, and MSPs of all parties, have backed the review decision?

196

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 11:55:07
Dust, anybody? Dust. http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_03/fatfighters1710_468x386.jpg
197

kimba,

18/12/2007 11:56:36
214,AYRSHIRE.LOL,do you think we live in a democracy,NEWS FLASH! we haven't lived in one since 1997!
198

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:57:05
217 LOL. I have a question for Vanessa Phelps -- Kimba: high in fat, low in fat?
199

malcolmcean,

18/12/2007 11:57:10
post 204 writes: "In 55BCE Caesar invaded a nation called Briton. Scot-land didn't exist until sometime after the invasion by the Scotti in 700-ish CE."

Caesar invaded an Island called (by the Romans themselves) Britannia. The political province of Britannia, post 204, was actually only what is now modern day wales and England. The northern kingdom, which various generals and the like had tried to subdue (most notably Agricola), was called (by the Romans) Caledonia. This land (most of which is now modern Scotland) was defended by the united tribes of Caledonia under its leader Calgacus (a Celtic warrior). Although the Caledonians were defeated at Mons Graupius (the Grampians), the land of Caledonia was never incorporated into the political province of Britannia.

So, Scotland was not part of the political state of Briain, but was part of the geographical island which was collectively called Britannia.

I would imagine that this would still be the case come independence.
200

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 11:58:27
219 Profound. Yes, i rather hope dthat we did live in a democracy. I am saddened to hear you say that unionists like Brown and Cameron will not "allow" Scots to have a referendum on our future. That does not sound democratic. Tell me again why my country is better off run by these people if they are not democrats?
201

Sprauncy,

Aberdeenshire 18/12/2007 11:59:53
#212 Chris Stephenson,Highland 18/12/2007 11:52:01

At last a sane voice in the wilderness.

It seems Scotland in in Self-destruct mode, the good of the majority is of no consequence. Narrow self interest is what counts.
202

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:01:47
218,spook. So do I, but i'm sorry to say both the tories and labour will do ANYTHING to stop it,Scotland and England won't see independence any time soon!
203

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:04:55
226 WHat do you mean "do anything" to stop Scottish independene? Would they misrepresent economics or revenues do you think?
204

subrosa,

18/12/2007 12:05:04
#222 I've already given my view and I think Mr Salmond will enjoy this interrogation by his peers just as much as he'll enjoy the inquiry into the running of Aberdeenshire Council.

205

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:06:01
Ayrshire, you and your pal seaforth have to spoil it,my god, we were having a genuine debate,but hey,why bother!
206

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:06:40
#213 your like davinci code with the facts. Is nothing beyond your conspitorial mind?

English Voice? More Like English Reject. Your countrymen must be sayin "for gods sake shut up man! we like Scotland for our holidays"

212 - unfortunately the people in parliament , mainly in opposition, are taking our money and doing us down. All for cheap political point scoring. Shameful. They would have some credibility to argue if they werent themselves knee deep in sleaze and would rather put the future of Scotland behind their need to score points and deflect from their wrongdoing. Truly schoolyard and truly pathetic.

I hope Malcolm Bruces constituents are taking note.

Meanwhile Labour divert tax payers money to fund election campaigns, via "insider companies" as well as cash for planning approvals. The Scottish LAbour loving press stays silent, instead their trying to intimate wrongdoing in this case.

WHAT A JOKE!
207

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:08:46
231 - you would not know genuine or debate , if it took you too dinner and introduced itself.
208

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:10:15
231 Sorry, were you having a debate? I retract my Vanessa Phelps question then. Carry on with your profound contributions - you were saying that the UK Labour and Tory parties were despotic anti-democrats who "would do anything" to undemocratically stop Scotland choosing her future, and then were suggesting that we should continue to be governed by them for our own good?
209

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:10:35
226,spook. They will not allow Scotland independence as they are sh@tting themselves,that England would follow,and the Scottish raj in westminster are out of a job!
210

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:11:27
234 Be a hefty tab for that dinner, no? Who had 6 starters and all the main courses?
211

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:12:28
238 If Scotland were to become independent, would not the rest of the UK be, de facto, independent of Scotland, ending the "raj" you refer to?
212

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 12:12:38
Best not to eat blue coloured sweeties if you live on Teesside, just in case a mistake is made:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/7145677.stm



213

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:14:11
#237 - Game ,set and Match to ayrshire!!!!!

gubbed and filleted by kimbas own hypocrisies
214

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:16:01
#241 - Kimba suffers from that(blue tongue). Can we have her culled (for the sake of our sanity)
215

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:19:51
245 I think it is remarkable that 0.8 or 0.4% of the population, depending on which of EV's figures you take, downloaded it. What percentage of the UK population have downloaded a UK government white paper? How many people will visit the Unionist Con Commission? How many clinically obese angels can dance on a pin head?
216

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:20:46
237,Ayrshire. No I was not,I was stateing that both labour and the tories would do ANYTHING to keep the union in tact;In a conversation on radio 4,Jack Straw said "The scottish and english nationalists are a big threat to the union,and must be stopped at all costs",asked if he thought the union would survive he said "It must and it will,that must be our priority".
217

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:23:21
249 "stopped at all costs". The Tories and Labour parties "will do anything"

Do you think they would distort economic or revenue data to encourage Scots not to go for independence? Do you think the unionist parties would try to smear the SNP with their own sleazy brushes?
218

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:23:43
250 Thought so....
219

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:24:02
246,spook, read 249,that is what both you as a Scottish nationlist, and me as a english democrat are up against.
220

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:26:23
253 Up against Jack Straw? Formidable as he is, I think the conomic, political and social benefits of Scottish independence can triump over him.
221

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:27:22
249,Ayrshire. why not, they have done it down here to the EDP, H@LL, we can't even get T.V. coverage.
222

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 12:27:29
204

In 55BC Caesar met the Britons around Canterbury!The Roman Empire never extended beyond Antonines Wall(Falkirk to Glasgow),some say because the Roman Empire had no use for such a barren landscape, some say because they could not control the Picts.They abandoned that wall (WHETHER BY CHOICE OR OTHERWISE) and built Hadrians wall instead which they did manage to defend for some years,partly due to the natural barrier which exists there, a formation from the collision of the plates.The only unity that existed therefore was courtesy of the invading Romans,and they intentionally excluded us!
These islands were many kingdoms in any case.
The "Scoti" were Irish traders and numerically small therefore, and whilst their language and culture became the dominant one over the Picts and was once spoken as far south as Dun Eideann(Edinburgh),Scotland was a series of kingdoms prior to that,such as Dalriada (dal riata)and Strathclyde (capital Dumbarton)and was as seperate from Englands kingdoms then as it ever has been .
Kenneth Mac Alpin was king of the PICTS but apparently his being first King of Scotland is a myth,and the King of ALBA (gaelic name for what hassince become Scotland) was actually Kenneth II.

What point you think you have made is indeed a curiosity to me!
We were United in 1603 and 1707 but previously we were NOT a country .WE were not even part of the Roman Empire!We were once two different islands !How far back do you want to go,or does that depends upon what conclusion you wish to arrive at?
In any case it has absolutely bog all to do with the economics of Independence ,which is where we are heading,where we have been has little bearing really.Thats why its the Unionists who try to involve our history ! They know they well get gubbed by a curling stane on ecomomics!
223

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:28:30
Who apart from journalists and really nurdy types like AM2 and EV actually download a white paper?

EV trying to base your argument on that feeble point is just making me sit back in hysterics as you try to maintain your right!

I can just imagine the steam and rage pour out at your keyboard, as you try to "justify white as the new black"

Perhaps in your single track mind. Not in most other peoples reasoned imaginations.
224

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:30:56
#255 Have you just woken up? Because your still dreaming... :-)
225

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:32:21
256 Kimba

yes. The SNP is the government of Scotland, being the largest party in the Scottish parliament, and the largest party in Scottish local government, with more councillors than any other part and receiving the most votes in the Scottish election. It has had continuous parliamentary representation for 40 years and representation in the European parliament since direct elections began. It currently has 40% support.

The English Democrats do not even register on opionion polls and have no elected representatives. Do you see a slight difference?
226

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:32:21
254. But it's not only him,the whole establishment are the same,BROWN,CAMERON,WHOEVER FRONTS THE LIB-DEMS,and their cronies.
227

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:36:36
264 and yet, having identified the UK political establishment as horrid and undemocratic, you want us to continue to be governed by these people. why?
228

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:39:25
267 deleted posts from the acid casualty English Voice and other deranged fantasists are counted.
229

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:40:06
263.Indeed I do, now ask yourself this question. WHY WOULD THAT BE. Here are a few tips! the EDP are not allowed any t.v. coverage,the march in London in summer of this year demanding a English parliament,was banned from being shown even tho' over 20,ooo people were there,and at the last poll 52% said they wanted a English parliament.
230

Stephen101,

Where's wee Wendy 18/12/2007 12:41:28
Where is Wendy when you need her? A real storm in a teacup that needs bluster, lots of waffle, a self proclaimed big brain, and an uncontrollable mouth and lips, and Wendy cannot be found.

Maybe in the bowels of Gayfield Police station?

I just hope the police will send equivalent numbers to search her house when they swoop to make the arrest. What's good for Tommy would suit Wendy.

Sooner rather than later please.

231

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:43:33
266. At the moment we do not have a choice,but as my mum says,"slowly slowly catchie monkey" or in other words,bide your time,and you will get what you want.
232

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:44:03
269 banned from TV coverage? That doesn't sound very democratic at all? How many MPs do the English Democrats have, and what % of the vote did they get at the last election. What with them being banned (sounds like an Eastern European dictatorship the way these Tory and Labour blights behave, banning people!!) I don't get much news about the success of the English Democrats.
233

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 12:44:13
268. Aaw, that nasty English Voice and that nasty union, always subjugating us. It's not fair!

I do believe that thanks to 7 months of endless tedious whinging by the SNP and it's deluded band of fanatics, the WHOLE of Scotland does seem to have the shiny new stereotype of 'Whinging little Scots'.

All hail the SNP for creating this new image for a once great nation.
234

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:45:13
274 "slowly, slowly catachie monkey"? What? Don't get that at all, sorry. Was she a monkey hunter? I don't like trade in animals, but there is a need for medical research
235

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 12:45:23
All hail the Great Salmond for demonstrating that the Scottish Government will kiss any corporate backside for any amount of money.
236

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:46:56
276 So your impression of the Scottish nation is of "whinging little Scots".

Still, it is very good you can overcome your distaste for us to come on here daily and tirelessly try and save us from ourselves, for our own good. Appreciated.
237

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:47:18
#276 - is that what countering your infantile waffle is called?
238

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:48:52
281 Spook. I have noticed that. Not very conducive to debate, and then she complains about "chat room" tactics. Very sad.

239

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:49:04
275, then please go to www.englishdemocrat.org,uk
240

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 12:49:25
Although he is very fat and has a rediculous Bobby Charlton, pictures of Mr Salmond do not put me off my dinner to the same extent as those of Wendy Alexander, who's physical appearance is frankly disturbing, additionally, she has the charisma, and leadership of a fence-post (how did she get to be leader of the Scottish labour party?).

However, Mr Salmond has clearly broken the 'ministerial code', and in the new year he will receive his punishment of a stiff talking-to (eek). His excuse of 'I wasn't the first minister at the time' is a bit thin.

Naughty boy - off to bed with no dinner.

The Blairite master of spin has spun too far this time.
241

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:53:19
274 I have searched and can't find this "slowly slowly catchie monkey". I found "softly softly catchie monkey"(is that similar in derivation and meaning? and some blurb about people in the North East of England having hanged a monkey they thought was a spy, what is that all about? Was that the monkey that was caught slowly?
242

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:54:40
277.Ayrshire, if you are going to play the fool,then it's a waist of time,you seem to take the p--s at every chance you get,Look, if the scots and english work together,we may just get what we both want!
243

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:55:07
278 Dreadful. The Scottish government encouraging inward investment. What next, setting up agencies to do it full time?? Scandal. Where will it end? Lots of companies might invest in Scotland if it continues. It must be stopped.
244

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 12:55:33
Anyone remember that infamous moron, Lia, who used to go on and on about the "English Democrats"? We'll never see the like of her retardation again. She was so confused - used to mock the SNP, but at the same time belonged to the most obscure fringe group in politics - I understand more people voted BNP!

245

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:55:35
#283 - Just like your rhetoric. Nothing their!
246

kimba,

18/12/2007 12:56:17
meths, that's what I put!
247

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 12:56:18
Yes, Ayrshire - what a "waist" of time. Too many pies, I suspect.
248

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:56:29
290 Kimba. Leave waists out of it. I just asked you to explain a rather odd, and obviously local, expression.
249

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 12:59:05
292 Kimba. Is this true - do more people vote BNP than for the English Democrats? I thought you said they were successful?
250

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 12:59:33
So Kimba. As an English Democrat. Wuoud you agree that as such Scotland will be second place?
251

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/12/2007 13:00:37
#257 Morris. Briton was a nation for long before Caeasar. The Romans tried to destroy this nation. It was a nation as it shared a religion, a language, a currency, a border, a culture, weights and measures, etc. Agreed the tribes did skirmish, but mostly they were at peace. The Romans penetrated well north of the Antonine Wall, but that is beside the point here as no claim is made that the whole of Briton was forced into the Roman empire).

The real point is that Scotland is an artificial 'nation', there due only to brief quirks of history. Its own history as a united 'nation' is really non existent other than under unionisms. I mean, in just what years were ALL the peoples and lands currently claimed to be Scotland actually free, united, at peace and sharing a religion, culture, legal and political system, language, border, etc? Few, if any.

As for the Scotti being mere traders! If so,then so are the Taleban!
252

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 18/12/2007 13:01:03
Simply a non-story.

Utterly pathetic.
253

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:01:20
292, from little acorns mighty oaks grow! now,unless you wish to contribute sensibly to this dabate,I suggest you go and do something more useful.
254

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 13:04:04
#294 Spook in Leith

2006 - SNP make conference resolution against bus deregulation.

2007 - good chance of SNP winning election.

2007 - Brian Soutar and Ann Gloag make unprecidented £500,000 donation to the SNP.

2007 - bus regulation erased from SNP manifesto.

255

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:04:07
#304 - Like join the English Democrats?

ROFLMAO
256

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 13:04:55
LOL - Lia once told me that her problems stemmed from a childhood love of sniffing diesel from the local garage forecourt. Poor soul. Where is she now?
257

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:05:35
302. yes indeed meths.
258

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 18/12/2007 13:05:54
"All hail the Great Salmond for demonstrating that the Scottish Government will kiss any corporate backside for any amount of money."

New Labour are more right-wing and pro big business than even the Tories under Thatcher.
259

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 18/12/2007 13:06:42
Err, English Voice:

Hate to rain on your parade, but "Free The Aberdeen One"??

Alex Salmond neither represents nor stays in Aberdeen??

He represents Gordon constituancy , to the north. :-)
260

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:07:25
#309- Married to the attendant or married to a volvo?
261

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:07:38
307. don't get cocky, you are not the oracle!
262

Bermuda Bie,

Bermuda 18/12/2007 13:08:32
This is just the start of Chubby Cheeks acting like Mgabe - more, much much more will follow if it is allowed to happen.
263

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:09:34
Ok Kimba. You maintain your way is the best way for Scotland. E.g. Vote English Democrat. ermmmm.........ok this is Scotland ....but hey!.....

So how would Scotland fair if this is the party slogan "Putting England First"

Not very unionist and cosy?
264

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 13:10:17
And poor Lia once described how she was mistaken for a sheep whilst out on a country stroll - before she knew it, she'd been dipped, had her toe-nails clipped and was bought and sold half a dozen times at market. Where is she now?
265

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 13:10:28
#315 Spook in Leith

Drop the 'pro-union' rubbish.
266

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 13:11:22
#270 The SNP only have themselves to blame though - they are the ones who criticised McConnell for courting Trump in the first place. Speaking in May 2006, Ms Sturgeon said:

"It is understandable that Jack McConnell would want to encourage Donald Trump to invest in Scotland but to discuss specific proposals that require planning permission is clearly prejudicial and, on the face of it, would be a breach of the code of conduct."

Now I know that some have used the constituency MSP argument - the problem is though that some seem to think that Salmond can switch seamlessly from being First Minister to a constituency MSP and back again. He can't in my opinion - whilst acting as as a constituency MSP he still is acting as First Minister - that is where there is a conflict of interest.

The problem is though that some people just don't want to see it.

267

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 13:11:46
So.....it transpires that the weighty contributer, that is kimba, supports the ultra rightwing BNP!

What a vicious little creep she is!
268

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:11:59
spook,meths,ayrshire. go on the "LATEST NEWS" part of the EDP site,even more interesting.
269

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 13:14:35
If only we could have a rainbow coalition, as they do on Teesside - first in Britain, I understand. Lia told me all about it. Poor lia also told me how she'd gone out for a paddle at the mouth of the Tees and had been scooped up by a Russian Klondyker factory ship, boned and then thrown back for being over-quota. Where is she now?
270

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:14:47
AJ. GET IT RIGHT,I SUPPORT THE EDP,{ENGLISH DEMOCRATS}SAY THAT AGAIN AND YOU WILL BE REPORTED,UNDERSTAND!
271

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 13:17:28
Who upset the fishwife?
272

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:18:45
NOW,as I was sayings,alex has bitten off more than he can chew, trump has landed him and the SNP in the sh@t.
273

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:18:53
#328 - which are a sanitised version of the BNP.

Like National Socialism was for middleclass Germans to make it more palitable.
274

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 13:21:26
314 said the orifice
275

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:21:31
270

I think the Unionists choose not to "believe" Salmond by intention,and create a "sleaze" for their own purposes.Nicol Stephen is prepared to gamble his future and party on this.That tells me THEY KNOW THEY ARE IN THE BROWN STUFF!Its not sleaze you smell Nicol its panic!
They have been well and truly "found oot"both sides of the Rio Tweed ,and realise the game is up if they don't pull together, and stop an SNP runaway train.They cannot look to DADDY in Westminster! Hes up to his neck in an even bigger sleaze ball, than the Scottish branch are!

Salmond acted as MP for Gordon to save this project.The Unionists must try and get some mud to stick on him,because they know they can't remove the mud that sticks to them!It landed big time!

Their tactics are pretty transparent.I still think that despite the disgusting biased PRESS we have in Scotland, that SALMOND will wipe the floor with them,and Nicol Stephen is finished both as leader and as MP. I expect defections from his party right left and centre.The Scots will join the SNP.The predominately English former SDP lot will probably join the Tories.

All three Unionist parties know what lies ahead.The Liberals and Conservatives will gain down south,and Labour may even finish third in many seats.
In Scotland however Labour and the Lib Dums will lose to everybody but only the SNP are in a position to win.

The break up of the UK is imminent no matter what route they go down.They will just make their credibility even less than it is now.
276

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 18/12/2007 13:21:44
Alex is for the high jump.
277

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 13:22:18
I've registered on the English Democrates website and am leaving my reminiscences of Lia all over the website - like a dirty stain trampled through the house! Ahh!
278

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 13:22:21
The English Democratic Party make even the UKIP look sane.
279

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:22:52
328

NOt being funny but who are the EDP and do they contest Scottish seats and if so why?
280

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 13:22:59
kimba

Oooooooooooooh!!!!!

Am shiting masel!!!!! :)
281

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:23:10
327. what is your problem! you are a grubby little bully,now go and tote your oral sewage else where.
282

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:24:36
AJ. WHATS NEW!
283

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 13:24:51
kimba,

Your threats are empty, Alan the On-line Editor is well aware of your nutty contributions!
284

Arrow,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:24:55
i have searched the Hootsman and the EN for a report on the poll that indicates that 40% of Scots are in favour of independence. it was in the Express.
i have also searched in vain for anything about the latest corruption allegation about Wendy and the seven dwarfs (at a theatre near you soon)taking taxpayers money and gear using for NL party purposes. of course she did not mean it and apologises (not for doing it but for getting caught!)
i have cancelled my order and am not subscribing to the Herald for my daily paper. at least you get some news in a much more balanced way. i have asked a collegue in the Scotsman to check out what e-mails are passing between the unionist parties and their supporters in that paper. when i get the report i wil post it on the web
285

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 13:25:09
341 "oral" sewage? Surely you mean literal sewage? littoral sewage?
286

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 13:25:25
#326 Spook in Leith

Well I read it in Private Eye, a journal that raises it's tin shield against the forces of spin.

Or would you prefer me to read the West Highland, with it's tale's of 'pie fracas on Oban bus'?
287

Conan the Librarian™,

18/12/2007 13:25:53
I thought kimba was being serious,so I went and had a look the English Democrat website.
There was link to Garry Bushell...(shudder).
288

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 13:26:02
343 Yes, I had a wee laugh when I saw what Alan the editor said about her.
289

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 13:26:46
348 Was he in Take That?
290

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 13:27:21
347 Wini

you have never been cloneed by me.
291

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 13:27:54
"343 AJ Fife,18/12/2007 13:24:51

kimba,

Your threats are empty,"

. . . like her head.
292

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 13:28:25
343 Nuttier than a pile of squirrel poo was how he described her.
293

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 13:28:41
kimba - what are you on about? I'm talking about my bestestest online friend Lia - she and me were great pals. GOT IT? You may know her? She lives on Teesside, is clinically obese, gets pulled around like the Queen, but in a special carriage pulled by 15 dwarf goats - quite a sight, so I've heard.
294

Conway,

Port Seton 18/12/2007 13:29:10
FROM THE SUNDAY TIMES THE REAL SLEEZE
WENDY ALEXANDER, the Scottish Labour leader, faces a new crisis after it emerged that she and senior colleagues have given thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money to a company that helps with campaigns for the party.

Alexander is already under pressure to resign after she admitted receiving an illegal donation for her leadership campaign from Paul Green, a businessman based in Jersey who is not a UK voter.

Now it has emerged that she, along with eight senior colleagues, used parliamentary allowances to pay £5,000 to Computing for Labour (CfL), a company owned by the party and based at its London headquarters. It provides IT services that are offered free by the Scottish parliament.

CfL provides software which helps politicians to organise files on individual constituents.

It is used not only by 13 Labour members of the Scottish parliament (MSPs) but also by 260 Labour MPs and 16 Welsh assembly members. Between them, they pay the organisation an estimated £68,000 a year from their parliamentary allowances.

The money is paid even though similar software has been available free to MSPs of all parties through the Scottish parliament’s IT department since 2003. Westminster politicians said the only other systems available to them had to be paid for.

CfL helps Labour to campaign during elections, designing candidates’ websites and software that allows them to send text messages directly to voters. Its website states that it is “a membership organisation set up to encourage and support the use of computers so that they contribute to achieving the party’s aims”.

Parliamentary authorities prohibit the use of office equipment paid out of allowances to be used for party purposes but have permitted payments to CfL on the grounds that MSPs require support to help to deal with constituents’ problems.

However, a former CfL employee said that income from elected representatives made the company’s election campaigning wo
295

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:29:12
When are the Scottish Liberal Democrats going to change their name to the Unionist Liberal Democrats (ULD)?

All they are interested in is trying to smear Alex Salmond who has done nothing wrong. The Scottish Government were right to call in the plan (the Tories and the rest would still have been whingeing if they hadn't) and Salmond had a right (and a duty) to speak to all parties.

I'm glad the parliament kicked their stirring it enquiry into touch but their bleating helps no-one in Scotland.

At one point (the Thatcher years) the Liberals along with the SNP and Labour represented progressive opinion and wanted something better for Scotland. Not anymore. Nowadays they want to conspire with the Tories and Labour to block normal powers for their own country. If I was an ordinary member of the Lib Dems I would be ashamed of their leaders.
296

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 13:29:57
I wonder where he'll serve his sentence - Saughton? Perth?
297

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 13:30:39
#348 The website is a corker - they couldn't wrap themselves up in flags much more!!

And as for the "the preservation of an ancient English constitution" - one wonders what that is? Because there is no such thing as the English Constitution - the UK does not have one and England has never had one.
298

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 13:30:49
357

Joe, the SNP gave us the Thatcher years. Thanks a bunch.
299

kimba,

18/12/2007 13:30:58
343, well "Alan"is about to have a wakeup call,and maybe a new job.
300

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 13:31:18
Ayrshire,

What was the word Alan the ed used?

Ah yes, he seemed to focus on the word "retard" when writing about kimba! What a hoot!:)
301

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:32:55
361- And their goes WU Merchant , in his multiple moniker mode.........droll.........troll.........
302

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 13:33:46
364

But what was he discussing? Jail beckons.
303

Gerry Rourke,

Ayr 18/12/2007 13:35:22
361

juan etc, "their"? The Scottish Government must address educational standards - now.
304

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:36:14
#367 - I MAY CRY from your stinging put down......!!!!!!
305

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 18/12/2007 13:38:20
356

Conway, a fine contribution. Perhaps Alexander and Salmond will have a joint leaving do?
306

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:38:29
SCOTTISH DAILY EXPRESS:

'NOW YOU SAY IT! 59% of DAILY EXPRESS READERS FAVOUR INDEPENDENCE'

'The Trump saga does not appear to have done any harm, with most Scots backing Salmond'
307

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 13:38:37
If only lia were here - she'd sort out you cabal of loonies. She'd ride in on the back of a goat and then buy and sell you all every day of the week. Then she'd deliver some horrible racist polemic and be on her way. Where is she now?
308

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:41:51
323

To suggest that becoming a minister would in any way reduce your duty as an MP , or the expectations of YOUR electorate is clearly a NONSENSE!

If it were not possible to interchange, then NOBODY WOULD DO IT.

Gordon Brown is still the MP for Dunfermline East ! If he was not ,who do his constituents go to?They only have ONE MP at Westminster.Clearly Salmond has a water tight case ,and if the establishment attempt to conclude anything else BE IT ON THEIR OWN HEADS.
Nice try but completely illogical.
If they try and justify that then we really do need to take to the streets.
309

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 18/12/2007 13:41:53
370

Well Mr Eckhart, this is the first time that a nationalist has used the "Scottish" Daily Express as back up. This confirms your real political leanings.
310

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 13:43:08
Seaforth#371,

You'd better watch oot, she be creepin' up behind you with a noose and a fiery cross at the ready!
311

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 18/12/2007 13:43:35
372

Brave words morris, brave words ... but utter nonsense.
312

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:44:38
#373 - meanwhile. Labour use no intentional wrongdoing? Solid Case!
313

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 18/12/2007 13:49:35
376

janker, I hold no affiliation to Labour. Labour politicians are at it. People should not defend the indefensible. Nationalists do.
314

IainA,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:51:19
I am getting very tired of the Scottish Parliament, they appear to have confused politics with schoolground bullying, namecalling and pisspoor attempts at character assassination.

I have no political bias in this, as I hold every party guilty , incumbent government and opposition.

I am fed up with the perennial cry of "We need a fuller explanation of this" from parties when some miscreant has been caught out in some minor scam or faux pas.

Especially as what it really means is "we'll keep this guy/gal explaining himself/herself for years, so he can't achieve anything useful - who knows, he might just resign and we'll still be able to accuse his party of sleaze as long as this goes on"

It's pathetic. Even worse, it's amateurish. We appear to have a government full of amateurish old gossips, full of mock indigation over the trivial sins of - well, anyone they don't care for I suppose.

We have real issues that need to be dealt with and this cliquish gossip shop is wasting time and resource that the parliament should be putting to use for the benefit of the people of Scotland, not their own party.
315

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 13:54:50
377 - If Alex Salmond had done anything improper i would be over his case , however he has merely been acused of wrongdoing. Wendy Alexander has admitted wrongdoing and more is following.

What other way was their for him as MSP for area to act ? if he's at it?
316

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 13:55:03
361

Here are the facts.Everybody in Scotland knows apart from you, evidently !

Labour introduced a 40% rule into the 1979 referendum, (and excluded independence as a choice of course).They were only retaining power with SNP support.That support was withdrawn as any political party has the right to.
Labour were gubbed in England.The SNP don't contest England!
THATS CALLED DEMOCRACY.
Scotland only had 72 seats, so Labour could have won every seat in Scotland (which are the only seats the SNP contested )so it would have made NO DIFFERENCE .Its arithmetically impossible!

Labour were defeated by the United Kingdom democratically expressed wishes (which you support).


In fact the SNP were guilty of propping up a Labour government which nobody wanted and its recorded in the election result.

This was put about by the Labour party in the hope that some people would be stupid enough to believe it,maybe even repeat it. I doubt that in their wildest dreams they expected anybody would still not see through it some 30 years later!
317

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 13:57:56
NO! We dont need democracy - if only Lia were here, she was the cleverest with answers. She was never knowingly understood.
318

,

18/12/2007 14:02:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
319

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 18/12/2007 14:03:18
380

Come on morris - stop telling porkies.
320

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 14:03:34
As we are BACK on independence again, lets summarise the choice facing the Scottish people.

So we currently have Scotland in the United Kingdom, which, according to the World Bank, is :

5th in the world by GDP per capita by consumption (comparing average living standards).

7th in the world by simple GDP per capita,

4th in the world by total GDP (still ahead of China),

6th in the world by total GDP (calculating in the cost of living)…

With seats of influence at the top tables of the UN (including one of the five veto-powers on the Security Council), the EU, G8, OECD, OSCE, NATO, the Commonwealth, the Council of Europe, the World Trade Organisation, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund...basically all the major international organisations...

more yet...

Plus the UK also has the EU's strongest economy, has the EU's strongest military, is the primary link between the two largest blocs of the EU and the USA, is a nuclear power, home of the first true lingua franca, home of one of the world's principal cultures, home of the world's financial capital...

And all with a population of just 61m.
So all of the above and with just 1% of the world’s population, then!

Yet Salmond and his band of deluded sycophants (‘psychophants’?) wants to take Scotland out of this and instead make it:
The 54th largest economy in the world
The 22th largest economy in EU
The 112th largest country in the world
The 20th largest population in the EU (above the likes of Cyprus, Luxembourg, Latvia, Estonia, Malta etc.)...

With aspirations of 1.3% of the European Parliament vote...

And with no practical influence over any of those internationals organisations, councils and forums that set the global economic, political and security strategies.

But, hey, at least the SNP will have their ‘independence’* and Salmond will have his place in history.

*Except for their defence and security, currency, interest rates, economic policy, trade policy, immi
321

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 18/12/2007 14:04:27
382

Thank you Ayrshire Scot - the best post today by far. There's only one Arthur Montford ...
322

jim b,

18/12/2007 14:04:49
Do the lib Dem's not want this plan or are they going to fight it just because they aren't in government now. I mistakenly thought every body was there for to help to better scotland.Party first at any cost,as long as its not them paying it
323

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 14:07:11
373:

That's because the arch unionist Express has never had such a pro-independence headline bofore (or comment inside).

As for my 'leanings' I am centre-right... nothing wrong with that. I think we've had enough of labour induced dependency culture and look forward to a leaner, meaner economy which only independence can deliver.
324

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 14:11:41
375


GB is the only MP for Dunfermline East(FACT) and being Chancellor or First Minister does NOT lessen his responsibilities as an MP,and even GB would tell you that!EITHER THAT OR WE NEED A NEW MP for Dunfermline East !

The same rules apply to the member of the Scottish parliament for Gordon.(of which 6,000 voters were also in the Westminster seat of MORAY)Short of being one of the councillors also, its hard to see how he could be more involved in this area.If he was guilty of anything it was trying to be everywhere at the same time.

You are clutching at a non existent straw. He is the MSP for Gordon and has a perfect right to be involved,and the opinions in the Gordon seat are he will walk home with a huge majority!They know the truth.THEY LIVE THERE.
325

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 14:12:39
389 Should read Prime Minister of course
326

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 14:14:35
400!
327

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 14:16:29
The comment counter at the top is f*cked Mr Alan On-line Editor!! Please fix it.
328

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 18/12/2007 14:18:15
387

Well, at least you are being honest Douglas and I thank you for that.

391

Indeed Meths - he's for the high jump.
329

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 14:18:16
393. How's that then, SNP Little Scotlander?
330

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/12/2007 14:19:10
Will all the unionists on here who are claiming that they are certain that Alex Salmond or any member of the government has broken the law pick up a phone and report the matter to the police.

I dare you.

I would remind you that to have knowledge of a crime and not to report it is a crime in itself.

Will all of you unionists who are just bumping your gums come back and apoligise when he is cleared?

For all of those unionists who are claiming that the SNP/Alex Salmond has,not for the first time sold out to big buisness, care to comment on the fact that when a certain Mr Al Fayed, who is royally (no pun intended)browned off at the british establshment said he was prepaired to support the SNP with money he was told to get on his bike, so what went wrong there?

You must remember it, it was in all the papers, just like world war two, even the scotsman.

Gerry Rourke, there must be a village somewhere that's looking for someone with your qualities, try siuations vacent-village idiot.

English voice, so you really think that when it comes to downloading the white paper that there is only one person in each family? what stunning logic.
331

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 14:19:43
Fakie Ayrshire Scot - why are you staying in to watch Scotsport? Shouldn't you be out showing off the new frilly knicker set you bought yourself for christmas, like all the other good maltese trannies?? Or is it special for you to stay in?
332

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 14:21:27
400!!
333

John S,

18/12/2007 14:24:38
#384- How can being part of the Union make Scotland stronger when on the world stage an independent Scotland would have the option of being be a full member of the following:-

12-14 members of the EU parliament at present 7 being reduced to 6 in 2009.
Member of the Council of the European Union.
Member of the Council of Europe
Attend the European Council (referred to as a European Summit).
The President of the Council of the European Union on a rotating basis (To be changed as per the Lisbon Treaty).
Member of NATO
Member of the IMF
Member of the ITU
Member of the WTO
Member of the Commonwealth.
Member of the Olympic movement.
Member of FIFA with no threat of one fooball team representing the UK.
A seat at the UN. etc etc

In the EU - 11 of the 27 member countries have population of less than 5.5 million and in Europe 22 countries have a population of less than 5.5 million out of 47 countries.

Out of 194 countries in the UN - 81 have a population less than 5.5 million.
334

BK,

Cyberspace 18/12/2007 14:24:38
This is just a smokescreen to divert attention from Wendy's crimes!
335

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 14:27:18
#385 Robert Mason

..But Dougie Donnelley in those inexcusable pink shirts??
336

2Right,

On Location 18/12/2007 14:32:31
Money Talks.

I wonder how much longer the McKie's will have to wait for the remit into the promised Judicial Enquiry.
Would it have been rushed through as quickly as Trumps if he had the same money to invest.???

Would our Government for example even consider being late with a decision for Trump? No because he has too much money to invest.

Still Laws for the Rich and another for the Poor nothing much has changed with the change of Government.

Give us the promised remit for the Enquiry and let the McKie's have some redress this Christmas.

The Eyes of Scotland are upon you
337

Katty,

Bannockburn 18/12/2007 14:35:00
30 Royster


Just in from work. Yes some of us work for our bread,

He never did walk on water Royster, just as long as he walks on the Lib Dems, Labour and Tories,he will, and is, doing fine. Thank u very much
338

Worried Scot,

18/12/2007 14:38:16
402 BK,

Wendy Alexander is being investigated - we'll get the results of that in due course.

If Salmond hasn't done anything wrong (and I suspect he hasn't, and if he has it'll be something trivial such as taking the wrong car) then the nats should be welcoming this with open arms - he can stand up, explain that he did nothing wrong, and leave those behind this enquiry with egg all over their faces!

The unionist parties will eventually have something with which to genuinely criticise the SNP administration (everyone makes mistakes) but by trying to dig up non-existent dirt they are just making idiots of themselves.

The negative campaign against the SNP didn't work - try a positive message please, it'll get better results.
339

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 14:39:14
#406 2Right

Shirley McKie - she is me - and we are she...

Of course - no enquiry, as the People In Charge will look bad. Another manifesto turn-around.
340

Drumme,

Glasgow 18/12/2007 14:39:56
361.... the SNP gave us the Thatcher years.Thanks a bunch.

?????
Someone will have to explain that one to me, cause I thought it was conservative voters who gave us successive tory governments. And here's the best case for independance, as far as I'm concerned.

We have an electorate in Scotland something similar to the electorate of greater London ALONE. So in effect, as was proven in successive Westminster elections which returned a Tory government, if Scotland returns a massive vote for one party, as Scotland did when voting labour and virtually wiping the tories out in one election - if greater London produces a consensus vote for another party - what we vote for in Scotland effectively doesn't matter. We are a population of 5.8 million within 61 million. At the election when Blair won and defeated the tories, this wasn't because traditional conservatives suddenly became labour voters - the tory party has become unelectable, so the tories basically stayed at home.

The political pendulum will always swing back and forward at Westminster between Labour and Conservative, that's a fact, the only way the Scottish electorate can change that is by removing themselves and Scotland from the unionist equation.

As for the harbingers of doom following Scottish Independance, there are enough examples round the world of small, economically thriving nations - and well you all no it.
341

gerard mcguigan,

dundee 18/12/2007 14:41:44
Harold Wilson said that he wanted to make Scotland a park for the new white hot generation of British technocrats. Jeremy Paxman says that Scotland is "our last colony". The Dean of Westminster says that "The stone was brought from Scone to Westminster, by Edward the second in 1296 to signify the unity of the nation". Check it out at the English coronation chair in Westminster Abbey.
Scotland is not Estonia nor is it Fiji.
342

,

18/12/2007 14:43:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
343

Drumme,

Glasgow 18/12/2007 14:43:27
361.... the SNP gave us the Thatcher years.Thanks a bunch.

?????
Someone will have to explain that one to me, cause I thought it was conservative voters who gave us successive tory governments. And here's the best case for independance, as far as I'm concerned.

We have an electorate in Scotland something similar to the electorate of greater London ALONE. So in effect, as was proven in successive Westminster elections which returned a Tory government, if Scotland returns a massive vote for one party, as Scotland did when voting labour and virtually wiping the tories out in one election - if greater London produces a consensus vote for another party - what we vote for in Scotland effectively doesn't matter. We are a population of 5.8 million within 61 million. At the election when Blair won and defeated the tories, this wasn't because traditional conservatives suddenly became labour voters - the tory party has become unelectable, so the tories basically stayed at home.

The political pendulum will always swing back and forward at Westminster between Labour and Conservative, that's a fact, the only way the Scottish electorate can change that is by removing themselves and Scotland from the Westminster/unionist equation.

As for the harbingers of doom following Scottish Independance, there are enough examples round the world of small, economically thriving nations - AND WELL YOU ALL KNOW IT!!
344

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 14:46:08
Northern Rock is only being propped up because it is in a Labour heartland. Would they have done the same for the Cheltenham and Gloucester? No.
345

Drumme,

Glasgow 18/12/2007 14:46:10
361.... the SNP gave us the Thatcher years.Thanks a bunch.

?????
Someone will have to explain that one to me, cause I thought it was conservative voters who gave us successive tory governments. And here's the best case for independance, as far as I'm concerned.

We have an electorate in Scotland something similar to the electorate of greater London ALONE. So in effect, as was proven in successive Westminster elections which returned a Tory government, if Scotland returns a massive vote for one party, as Scotland did when voting labour and virtually wiping the tories out in one election - if greater London produces a consensus vote for another party - what we vote for in Scotland effectively doesn't matter. We are a population of 5.8 million within 61 million. At the election when Blair won and defeated the tories, this wasn't because traditional conservatives suddenly became labour voters - the tory party has become unelectable, so the tories basically stayed at home.

The political pendulum will always swing back and forward at Westminster between Labour and Conservative, that's a fact, the only way the Scottish electorate can change that is by removing themselves and Scotland from the unionist equation.

As for the harbingers of doom following Scottish Independance, there are enough examples round the world of small, economically thriving nations - and well you all no it.
346

Drumme,

18/12/2007 14:48:26
361.... the SNP gave us the Thatcher years.Thanks a bunch.

?????
Someone will have to explain that one to me, cause I thought it was conservative voters who gave us successive tory governments. And here's the best case for independance, as far as I'm concerned.

We have an electorate in Scotland something similar to the electorate of greater London ALONE. So in effect, as was proven in successive Westminster elections which returned a Tory government, if Scotland returns a massive vote for one party, as Scotland did when voting labour and virtually wiping the tories out in one election - if greater London produces a consensus vote for another party - what we vote for in Scotland effectively doesn't matter. We are a population of 5.8 million within 61 million. At the election when Blair won and defeated the tories, this wasn't because traditional conservatives suddenly became labour voters - the tory party has become unelectable, so the tories basically stayed at home.

The political pendulum will always swing back and forward at Westminster between Labour and Conservative, that's a fact, the only way the Scottish electorate can change that is by removing themselves and Scotland from the unionist equation.

As for the harbingers of doom following Scottish Independance, there are enough examples round the world of small, economically thriving nations - and well you all no it.
347

Katty,

Bannockburn 18/12/2007 14:49:43
I see English Voice is still around, can not take a hint
It has been asking For AM2 To come out and play at the start of posts, he declined of course,

Why do I get this hazzy photo of a very dark dark pus with a very very limp wrist. Don't play with English voice send it back to the Times. Germs ugh
348

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 14:50:50
#411 Doonhammer

The Scottish legal system has nothing to do with the union. It is Scottish...
349

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 14:52:39
All this is nothing short of a unionist conspiracy: we all know that Alex has done nothing wrong and that these are TRUMPED up charges! Come on, all you unionistas out there: just what has Alex done wrong? I’d really like to know? So, he used a Ministerial car for official business? Big deal! So, he met with Trump then his administration took the unusual decision to call in the application soon after? Big deal! So: the decision will be taken by Swinney: big deal! Alex may be the big boss of the SNP, but he’s not taking the decision: it’s no big deal! You unionistas are just looking for any excuse to try to stir up trouble for about the only totally honest politician in the country! Big deal!
350

,

18/12/2007 14:55:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
351

Drumme,

18/12/2007 14:57:53
Here's a wee conshpirashy theory.

Eck Salmond is no one's foul and he must have anticipated the opposition parties' reactions to his interventions in the Trump scenario. I'm quite sure Eck could have pursued his actions without having incurred their wrath, or as much of it anyway. I quite believe Eck has deliberately courted this situation, knowing that he has operated within the required guidelines etc, but knowing also how Nicol Stevens, Annabel Goldie etc would react, only for a massive own goal on there parts, when the local government and committees investigation, finds no fault or wrong doing. Sooner or later the opposition parties will wake up and realise that they are doing more to promote Scottsih Indepedance, than the Nat's and by then it will too late....hopefully
352

Drumme,

18/12/2007 14:58:48
361.... the SNP gave us the Thatcher years.Thanks a bunch.

?????
Someone will have to explain that one to me, cause I thought it was conservative voters who gave us successive tory governments. And here's the best case for independance, as far as I'm concerned.

We have an electorate in Scotland something similar to the electorate of greater London ALONE. So in effect, as was proven in successive Westminster elections which returned a Tory government, if Scotland returns a massive vote for one party, as Scotland did when voting labour and virtually wiping the tories out in one election - if greater London produces a consensus vote for another party - what we vote for in Scotland effectively doesn't matter. We are a population of 5.8 million within 61 million. At the election when Blair won and defeated the tories, this wasn't because traditional conservatives suddenly became labour voters - the tory party has become unelectable, so the tories basically stayed at home.

The political pendulum will always swing back and forward at Westminster between Labour and Conservative, that's a fact, the only way the Scottish electorate can change that is by removing themselves and Scotland from the unionist equation.

As for the harbingers of doom following Scottish Independance, there are enough examples round the world of small, economically thriving nations - and well you all no it.
353

Katty,

Bannockburn 18/12/2007 14:58:53
Donald 53

That was good , Made my day , Don,t take much to please us "Get his Nickol ass out of here"
Nice one . Can u get one to go with English Voice?

Remember Wendy this Xmas
354

Drumme,

18/12/2007 15:00:23
361.... the SNP gave us the Thatcher years.Thanks a bunch.

?????
Someone will have to explain that one to me, cause I thought it was conservative voters who gave us successive tory governments. And here's the best case for independance, as far as I'm concerned.

We have an electorate in Scotland something similar to the electorate of greater London ALONE. So in effect, as was proven in successive Westminster elections which returned a Tory government, if Scotland returns a massive vote for one party, as Scotland did when voting labour and virtually wiping the tories out in one election - if greater London produces a consensus vote for another party - what we vote for in Scotland effectively doesn't matter. We are a population of 5.8 million within 61 million. At the election when Blair won and defeated the tories, this wasn't because traditional conservatives suddenly became labour voters - the tory party has become unelectable, so the tories basically stayed at home.

The political pendulum will always swing back and forward at Westminster between Labour and Conservative, that's a fact, the only way the Scottish electorate can change that is by removing themselves and Scotland from the unionist equation.

As for the harbingers of doom following Scottish Independance, there are enough examples round the world of small, economically thriving nations - and well you all no it.
355

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 15:02:11
#416 Ayrshire Scot

The winter is definately getting milder, and the snow now seems to come in April, for some reason.

Personally, I blame it on Dougie Donnelley's terrible shirts. That and CO2 emissions over the last 150 years.
356

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 15:02:13
I wonder if the Ayrshire Tranny-Scot is still wearing last-years christmas pants? After a month or so they just got welded on meaning you now have to just squeeze the brown sausages out through the gaps. Please take your particularly dull brand of filth elsewhere. Thankyou.
357

Drumme,

18/12/2007 15:03:31
*Please e361.... the SNP gave us the Thatcher years.Thanks a bunch.

?????
Someone will have to explain that one to me, cause I thought it was conservative voters who gave us successive tory governments. And here's the best case for independance, as far as I'm concerned.

We have an electorate in Scotland something similar to the electorate of greater London ALONE. So in effect, as was proven in successive Westminster elections which returned a Tory government, if Scotland returns a massive vote for one party, as Scotland did when voting labour and virtually wiping the tories out in one election - if greater London produces a consensus vote for another party - what we vote for in Scotland effectively doesn't matter. We are a population of 5.8 million within 61 million. At the election when Blair won and defeated the tories, this wasn't because traditional conservatives suddenly became labour voters - the tory party has become unelectable, so the tories basically stayed at home.

The political pendulum will always swing back and forward at Westminster between Labour and Conservative, that's a fact, the only way the Scottish electorate can change that is by removing themselves and Scotland from the unionist equation.

As for the harbingers of doom following Scottish Independance, there are enough examples round the world of small, economically thriving nations - and well you all no it. nter your comment*
358

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 18/12/2007 15:05:06
418

The Tin Man, what's wrong with pink shirts? De rigueur down Larkhall way.
359

AJ Fife,

18/12/2007 15:06:24
Wow.....look at the fakie Ayrshire Scot at 416!! Only the most observant will spot the difference.

360

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 15:08:38
#420 Robert Mason

...There are people who follow fashion and people who have style...



361

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 15:09:32
The sad reality is that if it had not been Trump leading this development then I doubt that this issue would have caused as much fuss as it has. We have seen developments before in other parts of the country (the Carse of Gowrie being a prime example) with housing developments dressed up as leisure projects. This is no different except for one factor - Trump.

Any other developer who faced rejection of their plans would have adjusted their plans to meet the concerns of the local authority; or gone back to the drawing board or made an appeal themselves to the Scottish Executive.

But this was no normal application - Trump when faced with rejection of his plans would not even adjust those plans. Remember it was not just the vote to go ahead that he lost (the 7-7 vote) but also a previous vote that supported development (the 11-4 vote). It is not just the tied vote that Trump did not respect but the previous vote that I believe was a more honest reflection of local feelings.

Trump's response is to threaten to withdraw completely; to not appeal if he does not get his own way - with the plans left intact. If any other developer had done this they would have been given short thrift and told to stick to the due process. If that turned out to be calling in the application after an appeal had been lodged then I do not think anyone would have had a problem.

Instead we have the perception of a businessman not getting his way, running to the politicians in charge and now seemingly getting his own way. We have any opposition to his development being threatened or removed. That for me is the whole insidious side of this debacle - that one person can have so many politicians (of all parties) crawling up his backside.

I thought we were out of the era of forelock-tugging but clearly not - only now it is not forelock-tugging to nobility but to anyone who has a bit of dosh to splash about.

The crazy thing is we just don't ever seem to learn with these big Ameri
362

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

18/12/2007 15:11:14
(continued)

The crazy thing is we just don't ever seem to learn with these big American companies - they are as likely to up sticks and move as to invest in Scotland.

I'd rather have a bit more home-grown entrepreneurship than some fly-by-nighter who sees us a way to make a fast buck.

If Trump does go elsewhere - and I do wonder how committed he was to come here in the first place - why don't some of our own developers look at a similar but much more friendly project for the area?
363

Willie Macleod,

18/12/2007 15:38:36
*Please enter your comment*
364

,

18/12/2007 15:42:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
365

BMeister,

18/12/2007 15:43:42
#383 Robert Mason
No, Morris is right, in 1979 the Conservatives won 339 seats of the 623 available. Labour won 268. In Scotland Labour won 44 out of 71 and the Conservatives 22 so even if the Conservatives had lost every seat (sound familiar?) they would still have had 317, i.e. an overall majority. Labour could have won every Scottish seat and still been 17 short of a majority.
366

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 15:48:57
The biggest story at the moment is the one concerning the Scottish media itself: Why it will not report on the latest Wendy cash scandal, as revealed in the Sunday Times at the weekend.

It's amazing that it takes a London based paper to report what the Scottish media will not.

This is not silence due to the 'current investigation'. This is a seperate and NEW affair and is being ignored by the Scottish media.

END THE BLACKOUT

367

BMeister,

18/12/2007 15:50:04
#409
Agree with you totally, you would think the other parties would have learnt in May that the negative tactics cost them heavily. Instead they seem so stuck in the rut that they cannot do anyhting else.
If 80% of the Aberdeenshire electorate are behind this and Nicol Stephen manages to sink it then he and his party in the area will be the ones who pay, no matter if there is any damage done to the SNP in the area.
If ,on the other hand, he could put petty party politics aside for once and work with the other parties (it's not just the SNP MSP's who are in favour of it) then he may enhance his and his parties reputation.

Instead of which he just wants to try and score cheap political points. Idiot.
368

David MacVicar,

web 18/12/2007 15:51:09
384 An English Voice™,

Thanks for reminding us what YOU stand to lose when Scotland decides its own future. A truely frightening prospect for you I'm sure evident in your increasinglt desperate posts.

Word of advice: Book your psycholigist now and get in before the rush. Also make sure you brush up on your crisis management techniques - could be a life saver for you as your comfort blanket comes crumbling down.
369

Willie Macleod,

Wick 18/12/2007 15:54:38
A lot of accusations are flying around these forums about Alex Salmond, there is no proof of any wrongdoing.If or when there is proof,that will be the time to Condemn.Fairness and justice is the Scottish Way. My first post got lost somewhere #425
370

watcher4,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 16:00:04
Just another corrupt Politician among us
371

subrosa,

18/12/2007 16:11:22
Now I know why Annabelle & Co are lying low. Wee article in the Guardian about her lord and master Mr Cameron's constituency assocation having received 'illegal' donations.
372

Linda,

Edinburgh 18/12/2007 16:12:25
428 Agreed.

Very little coverage of Labour scandals including recent examples

..Midlothian Labour Party chairman being sacked from his day job as a tradesman for Midlothian Council for working on his own house in Council time, appealing the sacking and the committee of labour councillors re-instating him but not declaring an interest. They all had been "appointed" by this man and possibly as he may have worked on their homes in Council time and using Council materials they had to support him.



Also Wendy Alexander's woes continued last week as the details emerged that a Labour councillor in her own constituency is now facing a police inquiry. Williams worked alongside Alexander in the recent election campaign when he was chairman of her own local party and is thought to be a key local ally.



Tommy Williams was sacked from his job as a community support worker at Glasgow City Council last week. An investigation had centred on allegations that Williams' time-sheets had shown him at work, when he had in fact been engaged elsewhere (on Council business?). Williams' line manager is also believed to have lost his job following the internal investigation.



A spokesman for the council said last night: "I can confirm that two members of staff were dismissed following an investigation into allegations of financial irregularity and the matter has been referred to Strathclyde Police."

373

malcolmcean,

18/12/2007 16:16:54
Something that I find pretty contempable about Nicol Stephen's conduct during this affair is his rather pathetic anti-Americanism (something the Liberal are very good at). On the Sunday programm Nicol felt the need to paint the picture of 'wee Scot' vs 'big rich American' and how we should not be rolling over to 'rich Americans'.

How very cringeworthy.

Their inferiority complexes and their desire to reduce everything Scottish to the 'twee' and 'second rate' (always 'executive' never government - no ambition, just slavish adherence to a term their betters in London told them to use) means that everything that comes along which they think is too bold and ambitious in a Scottish context is, with characteristic thin-lips and Lilliputian spikiness, screamed down with munchkin-howls of ferocity.

The SNP government better get used to swatting flies. Minor irritants like Nicol Stephen, Duncan McNeil and the rest of the LibLab third team (the first team are in Westminstr and the second in Glasgow district council) are going to be squeeking away until the next elections puts them out of their misery.
374

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 16:19:00
401. Membership, yes. INFLUENCE, almost none: 0.5% of the vote in the UN (UK will still be on the UNSC), 1.3% and less of the vote in the EU (UK will still be one of the big four)...

It won't be 12-14 seats as the limit on seats has been reached. As more small countries come in, seats will be reduced per country. And there's lots of small countries still to join from C, E and S Europe.

And keep up with the news, the rotating Presidency is about to go because of the Lisbon Treaty.

430. And WHAT do you actually believe the UK will lose if Scotland left? Any of these seats? No. Any EU voting power or influence? No. Any drop in any of those World Bank rankings? No.

Just how full of yourself are you to think that Scotland is so vital to the UK??
375

subrosa,

18/12/2007 16:19:41
#440 My last post seems to have disappeared. You never sat on my knee spook. For a start I'm female and don't visit grottos.
376

Eve,

Scotland 18/12/2007 16:20:35
What decision have the ministers made!!!!

I heard that it could be a few months before they come to the decision over the Trumth (How ever you spell his name again)development!!!!

Oh this is a mess that wee mad Lib dem apparently said that he wasn't against the development BUT he did like the way Alex Salmond was going about things.

Personally I don't think such a large scale development should be build on previously untouched land (so to speak) and also somewhere that is apparently environmentally important.
377

Anec Dotal,

Ukraine 18/12/2007 16:23:36
43

What point you make Medalions? They incahoots like?
378

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/12/2007 16:24:07
#28 Scozzy

"Extrapolate"????????

If you are going to try to sound impressive by using fancy words, at least use the correct one.
379

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 16:25:02
401 is yet another prime example of the little scotlander attitude of the SNP mob.

Just wanting to retreat into the shadows and become a barely audible voice on the world stage, to be left alone to whinge about how everyone picks on them all the time, "First it was that nasty union and now the EU won't listen to us at all...."

Bless 'em!
380

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 16:30:56
Heloooo Clarry,

How much is Donald's organisation paying you??
381

Grahamski,

Falkirk 18/12/2007 16:31:17
Mr Salmond will have the opportunity to clear up this whole sorry mess when he is questioned by the committee. It's time parliament called him to heel, he seems to have forgotten that his is a minority administration. When he was given the First Minstership by the parliament he boasted the SNP administration would be fleet of foot. After the Trump debacle shouldn't that have been slack of jaw?
382

subrosa,

18/12/2007 16:31:38
#450 Just as well spook as we're 51% of the population lol. Now tell me what you think of the new leader of the libdems. I hope he doesn't sack wee Nicol cause Nicol is doing so much for the cause.
383

Janis *,

London 18/12/2007 16:31:38

Holy Moses Methalions 443 Nick Clegg an Englishman (& no Scottish connections even)


384

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 16:39:39
446 Why did the UK fail to get a second UNSCR on Iraq if it has so much influence?
And what value being part of the UK for Scotland if the UK casts its vote against Scottish interests?
The UK did not veto steel quotas in the 80s, an independent Scotland would have to protect an industry of national significance.
The UK governments own documents state it was "willing to sacrifice" the Scottish fishing industry. And the UK government never backed objective 1 status for the Highlands? Do tell, how Scotland benefited with UK representation. A seat at the UN would be better than being represented by the UK with a slavish poodle to US foreign policy, pro nuclear proliferation and illegal wars - all policies most Scots detest. I'd rather have a smaller influence for policies Scots support than be part of a larger country pursuing policies most Scots hate.
385

Eve,

Scotland 18/12/2007 16:39:49
#452 An English Voice™: Have you lost something (the plot may be!!!) or are you just bored and trying to create a wee bit of exitment in yer life????
386

Eve,

18/12/2007 16:43:57
#463 Methalions,: Can you no, Just enjoy wan festival season at a time!!!

I've no even bought any christmas cards yet!!!! Am so ..........
387

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 16:45:21
466 catheter?
388

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 16:51:05
466 Glass topped coffee table?
389

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 16:54:25
453. Nothing dodgy going on there then!

464. Because, oh clueless one, the French were going to veto it regardless. Look it up.

As for sometimes voting against Scotland's wishes, welcome to democracy. You SNP sycophants shoud look into this concept. And also grow up a tad. That would help too.
390

Miss Jean Brodie,

18/12/2007 16:54:36
‘The other three political parties are preparing to gang up on the First Minister, causing him maximum discomfort.’

picture this - three wee kids gather aroond the fat kid and say - ‘we’re gonny git yoo, and we’ve goat big brothers nixt door tellin’ us tae git yoo ’cause yoo’ve been talkin’ tae that big boay frae oor the water withoot us hearin’ whit ye said tae him - so we’re gonny git yoo!’

ha ha - it’s really that obvious if you’re from Scotland and enjoyed a healthy upbringing on Oor Wullie and the Broons !
391

Grahamski,

Falkirk 18/12/2007 16:54:57
#464
A big if don't you think? The idea that the UK votes against Scotland's interests is paranoid nonsense. Your allegation of proliferation and 'war crimes' should stay in the student union where they belong.
I'm getting a bit sick of the sub-trot line about the UK government being war criminals. Once and for all, they are not war criminals.
The liberation of Iraq should be celebrated by democrats everywhere.
392

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 16:55:47
#447 - subrosa- It's weird how you picture folk.I had you down as a wee 60 year old bloke with a flat cap! No offence meant, but you know what i mean.

#448-eve- Trumth is How Wendy pronounces his name.


Wendy heard she was getting made a scapegoat for labours woes on a trumped up charge, She took it personaly against donald.........
393

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 16:56:50
474 If the French were going to veto it anyway, what value in your "big" UK influence theory? Seems the UK had about much influence as Uzbekistan as it couldn't get its resolution approved? Almost like a barely audible voice on the sidelines, no?
394

David MacVicar,

web 18/12/2007 16:57:10
446 An Anguished Voice

I feel your pain.... not ;)
395

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 16:58:01
#458 Ghamski: that’s enough! Alex is the best thing ever to happen to Scotland, and don’t you forget it! He may only have a one seat majority just now, but we’re going to see to it that that’s fixed next time.
396

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:00:12
476 The UK governments own papers said it would "sacrifice" the Scottish fishing industry to gain something in negotiations....

The UK did not back objective 1 funding for the highlands.

The UK did not veto steel quotas.

the invasion of Iraq took place without UNHSC approval, and has been widely described as illegal.

The invasion of Iraq has left 700,000 dead civilians (above the pre-existing death rate), cholera epedemic due to smashed infra-structure, 2 million refugees and areas now entirely controlled by fundamentalist Ismlamist militias. Why should this be "celebrated"?

397

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:01:35
474 English Voice, old crocus, you really must try to learn to express a coherent argument without all this bluster. You don't address any points and rarely make sense. Your last missive was just a tad short of coherent. Chin up old bean and calm down.
398

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:04:18
488 nuff said
399

The Tin Man,

Over the rainbow 18/12/2007 17:06:16
#464 Aryrsire Scot

At the end of the day, post union, the people of Scotland would still be paying taxes to the Westminster government for government servives that lie outwith Scotland. But without electoral representation.
400

David MacVicar,

web 18/12/2007 17:06:30
479 Ayrshire Scot

Dont rubbish his UK Ego its looking fragile enough as it is. You know what they say, pride comes before a fall etc best help Anguished Voice prepare already.
401

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:09:31
495 Don't bother. Makes no sense. He is probably referring to way Canada, The US and India continue to pay taxes to Westminster for services without representation.
402

Grahamski,

Falkirk 18/12/2007 17:09:34
#485
Why shouldn't the overthrow of a fascist dictator reponsible for genocidal mass murder not be celebrated?
403

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:10:37
493 David

right enough. Best not mention the incident of mighty Britannia's wave ruling navy getting kippered by an Iranian shrimp trawler.
404

morris,

edinburgh 18/12/2007 17:10:52
432

I suggest you consider the following:

Salmond has not (and will not) be charged with anything,The enquiry within Holyrood is an attempt to smear him,and take the heat off WENDY because SHE IS GUILTY of breaking the law.(no smoke without fire if you like)
They are embarrassed that Nicol has made an "eejit" of himself,and must try and salvage some kind of reprimand and hope that the electorate will be too stupid to realise that NO LAW has been broken.Nicol's own party councillors have defected!
The local people who live there are 90% behind Salmond,and that is unprecedented anywhere in Scotland.
HOOK LINE and SINKER !
405

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:11:01
499 Hoos Poos
406

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:11:42
501 I got your hpb. Was Jock not the colonel.
407

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 17:11:58
479. Indeed on that occasion, the UK and the US shared the very same tatty little chair, at the back of the hall, just next to the toilets, that has been set aside for Scotland should they turn up at UN Plaza asking ever so nicely to be let in.
408

,

18/12/2007 17:12:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
409

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:12:11
504 Thats true. But will you get whereabouts?
410

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:14:06
506 Irrespective of the chair, the mighty influence you have invented in among your acid induced schizoid separation from reality yielded precisely nothing for the UK. Is the mighty influence at the UN you speak of not meant to mean that the UK gets the most crucial UNSCR it has ever sought approved? Rather than rejected? Just a thought.
411

Nik,

Embra 18/12/2007 17:14:37
384, 446 English Voice

I suggest you do a bit of research before you post.

This man certainly disagrees with you regarding loss of influence throughout the world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/5388078.stm.

I think the relevant bit you are looking for is the bottom paragraph on that page.

Straight from the horse's mouth.

412

qohldr,

18/12/2007 17:14:46
So the head of the Sleazy Nasty Parasites is going to be brought to account for the way his party are willing to be bribed.
Not before time.
413

David MacVicar,

web 18/12/2007 17:15:12
491 Methalions,
"...the sound of willow on leather...a country garden..The Hounds..."

Are you describing a 'g@ng b@ng' at a New Conservatives get together (minus the bin bags and cellotape)?
414

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:16:44
513 You forgot ladie's undwear and an orange in the gub (de rigeur for the men)
415

Earnst Blofeld,

18/12/2007 17:17:29
#507 Ayrshire Scot: get a life, you sad man!
416

george alexander,

north lanarkshire 18/12/2007 17:17:31
SALMOND TO BE 'BROUGHT' BEFORE MSP's TO EXPLAIN
ACTIONS OVER TRUMP PLAN.

Even as an independence supporter I laughed when I saw this concocted headline. I'm beginning to think that someone at this paper is subtley parodying it.

This paper provides a haven for the ever diminishing band of Scottish Unionists. Desperately fumbling for the snooze button as the rest of Scotland re-awakens after 300 years.
417

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:18:34
515 Jock is not the Colonel. Exactly. He is jock. the other one is the colonel.
418

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 17:20:48
500. Ah, a Scottish 'navy'! Let's look at what the SNP are aspiring to here!

Well, Ireland's entire Navy consists of eight of these beauties:
http://www.military.ie/naval/flotilla/p23/aisling2.jpg

Ireland's entire air force is ten of these:
http://www.military.ie/aircorps/org/images/hangar.jpg

Indeed, when the SNP speaks, the world will surely tremble.

419

gerard mcguigan,

dundee 18/12/2007 17:21:46
ypu did not post my comment so why should i comment
420

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 17:22:00
519. Getting all tied up with your multiple fakers, are we?!

**** me, aren't you lot a tragic joke! LOL!
421

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 17:23:10
#495 Methaloins

Re. you Eh? comment....

You would still be paying London for RAF search and rescue.

You would still be paying for the DVLA.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

However, the people of Scotland will not have democratic contol over these institututions.

But they will still have great whisky.
422

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:24:25
520 Meths - please avoid internal rhymes

521 - Well, the mighty UK navy didn't overpower an Iranian shrimp boat. Maybe they should have used a Trident sub? Or maybe those Irish things might have faired better? As for the world listening, they didn't seem to listen to the UK when they knocked back that UNSCR did they? Squeak suqeak said the UK, begone said the security council, you may oncve have been important but now you are nobody.
423

David MacVicar,

web 18/12/2007 17:24:30
511 Nik,Embra

Have you no remorse, no empathy?
How could you go and burst his bubble like that?
'Voice' clearly has no safety net in place.
The implications when acceptance finally takes hold could be unfortunate for many...
424

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 17:25:58
#521 - That should be about all we need, as we haven't spent hundreds of years getting on everybodies knockers and telling them what's best.

A couple of those catapult things would be braw and an army of at least five would do.

Peace is great.
425

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:26:07
524 Gosh. How do Norway and Denmark manage car registrations? Do they do it via Sweden or Germany? It is a task beyond the wildest imaginations and wit of a nation to transfer vehicle licensing to Scotland. Maybe they can do it without losing all the data? If we were paying for that, I would want a refund.
426

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:27:31
527 I can think of nothing sadder, sitting at a computer all day, impersonating someone else he is accusing of over using his computer, lol. Nae sense of irony these unionists.
427

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:28:38
529 What if some superpower invades us? Ireland, Denmark, Norway, Switzerland and Iceland have all been recently invaded. Haven't they?
428

Nik,

Embra 18/12/2007 17:30:35
526 David MacVicar

I was actually surprised no-one had posted it earlier, seeing as it's quite an old article. It goes to show he doesn't know what he's talking about, though.
429

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 17:30:41
#532 - challenge them to a game of rugby and get them p1ssed, take embarassing photos to blackmail them to their wives. Sortid!

or just get them pashed and on a superferry home!

430

Earnst Blofeld,

18/12/2007 17:31:05
#527 The Spook in Leith: how did someone of your obvious lack of education come to that fallacious and conclusion? Your detective work is obviously as well grounded as your politics. Note the "comma splice" in your post; use a semi colon next time and be sure of your facts before you cause offence. Why do you support the SNP? Is it a bit like supporting a football team? You're just a fanatic and you don't understand the arguments, is that it? You're a waste of space: full stop (and not a semi colon which you don't even know how to use!)
431

Earnst Blofeld,

18/12/2007 17:32:31
please delete the "and" after "fallacious" in my post. I just knew I'd end up sounding as uneducated as that illiterate!
432

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 17:32:37
Squeak, squeak, little Salmondite!
433

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:33:06
535 "to that fallacious and conclusion"

Horrid when sentence structure and grammar disintegrate when one is lecturing others about the same is it not?
434

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 17:33:26
It's those worysome oiless meddlers in the south.May need to get UN protection incase they get envious of us rejiging the border marches with camels instad of horses. All the OIL rich states do it , apparently.

435

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:34:30
537 You omitted the full stop at the end of your last sentence. You appear far less educated and literate than Spook whilst trying to smugly lecture others about their writing. How ironic.
436

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 17:34:58
LOL!!!!!!! HAHAHA Laugh at the tranny!!!!!

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/emily-florence-l-poster.jpg
437

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:35:13
541 Should be easy. No one at the UN pays any attention to them anyway.
438

The Tin Man,

Over the Riainbow 18/12/2007 17:36:48
#530 Ayrshire Scot
...And your point is...???
439

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:39:03
547 Possibly sharper than the one your head rises to? That it is not beyond the wit of people to register cars in an independent country. 195 countries all manage it. I am willing to dream that Scotland could too. Even if the possibility of such "complexity" bamboozles you.
440

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:39:38
548 Let him keep his fishnets on. He has his dignity.
441

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 17:42:26
Talking of irelands deffence capability. A few years ago they were ordered to run about shouting "bang , bang!" to save bullets whilst training!

442

Earnst Blofeld,

18/12/2007 17:43:17
#548 Spook: I have commented on articles before and am no impostor - I've just got home to work, so did not have time to comment on this article before now. Why are you giving me all this abuse? What have I ever done to you? I repeat: I am not a troll. Please provide evidence if you can prove otherwise.
443

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:44:15
545 - Nice one, LOL Which one is "our" tranny? I am guessing it is the one on the right?
444

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:45:27
55 "i've just got home to work"

For someone who likes to pass his time smugly and patronisingly correcting the writing of others you appear as erudite and literate and a stale parsnip.
445

Seaforth,

18/12/2007 17:45:45
Ayrshire Scot - I wouldn't mind him doing it so much if he didn't insist on perming his leg hairs to make it look like he has full leg pubic hair. Bad Tranny. For god's sake man, shave, and shave off the full beard as well. It clashes terribly.
446

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 17:46:37
Thank the Lord for Alex! What the cause has always needed is a political superman type figure who can galvanise support behind us and build up popular appeal. We’re at 40% now and just watch us grow!
447

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:46:39
555 Why don't all Ernest's posts get deteted by the automatic fann** detector? Maybe they haven't turned on automatic tranny fan*** detection?
448

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 17:47:36
557 LOL. I have heard he wears a pubic wig due to balding issues.
449

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 18/12/2007 17:48:05
You know instead of looking like a bunch of idiots here, all you unionists, should take yourselves over to the Herald and read the story about how Northern Ireland and Scotland will not get the power to lower business rates that they wanted, and why?, well the rest of the UK would start wanting it too, so even though it would be good for those two countries it won't be allowed.

What price the Union Benefit now?

After you have all done that, you can all, as per usual, either make idiots of yourselves over there or just vanish because you don't have the answers after all.
450

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 17:48:31
With the General Assembly room full, King Salmond Jnr III was a little disappointed with Scotland's first-ever 'seat at the UN':

http://www.denison.edu/academics/learningspaces/c2.jpg


(552. I had to do that in the cadets, ****ing embarrassing!)
451

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 17:50:55
#556 Ernst Blofeld

I would be happier if you used your real name, Mr Gert Strobe. Far more sinister than this 'Blofeld' nonsence.
452

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 17:53:17
561. Perhaps because internal tax competition is believed by many economists to cause more problems than it solves.

Look at the federal states for examples of how people and companies constantly moving to the cheapest location within a country leads to tax competition, which leads to lower taxes all round, which leads to cuts in public services etc.

But maybe YOU are an economist and you know better...mmm?
453

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 17:55:50
#566 - yes lower services in all the areas with higher taxes! So your explanation is a real incentive for Scotland!As we will have lower taxes. Nissan, clydebank?...........
454

Montague Q X Burton,

18/12/2007 17:57:11
Phuqe me, but these British nationalists are a tiring bunch of micro-cocked halfwits, n'est pas?

Whether it's the fakies, EV, Blofeld, The Tin Man or the frankly deranged qohldr none of them manage to string together a decently constructed sentence with half the grace of their nationalist counterparts.

Perhaps this whole farrago could be ended with a cyber schlong measuring contest.

British nationalists, select your half dozen biggest priques and we shall do likewise, let the knobmeasuring begin.
455

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 18:00:30
#569 - they could never agree to what constitutes an inch.......
456

,

18/12/2007 18:01:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
457

Earnst Blofeld,

18/12/2007 18:02:49
#561 ochone: the whole business rates fiasco is an attempt to steal Tory votes which has backfired pitifully. What about the effects on the rest of the UK of all this? Are you Nats so myopic that you care nothing about, for example, Northern Ireland’s attempts to attract new business being thwarted by the favourable tax regime set in place by the SNP. Can’t you Nats see beyond your own back lawn? “Parochial” is just too mild a word for you lot!
#565 Spook: apology accepted, if it is one. I know that I was abusive as well.
458

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 18:04:41
572 do you dress to the left?
459

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 18:05:45
567. It's very unlike you to miss the point altogether!

"Lower services in all areas and higher taxes"?? What are you dribbling on about?!

Try a few chapters further into that book you are clearly struggling with. Or is it 'Salmonds Big Book of Ekonnomiks' in which case, that could be a direct quote.
460

Warden An' All, Reborn,

18/12/2007 18:06:14
561/ochone – “What price the Union Benefit now?”, After Saturday night, why not ask Leon, and what a fantastic duo between Kylie and him, and their song “Better the Devil you know”
461

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 18:07:50
566 Indeed. And your thoughts on business rates being historically higher in Scotland than England. Surely that is the tax competition you speak of? Or perhaps, in among your usual LSD induced miasmic ramblings, you meant to reference interconnector charges which disadvantage Scottish electricty producers?

Your argument would appear to favour harmonising all EU taxes? Are you in favour of this? Certainly your argument makes no sense as Ireland, with lower CT rates, has attracted more investment per head than the UK. But we should not learn?
462

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 18:08:22
We’re going to be a new Celtic tiger with all of Alex’s plans to lower business rates. What’s happened to his plans for independence, by the way? Are they about as close to extinction as a f*cking tiger? Never mind, at least 40% are now in favour, which is some kind of a start…I think!
463

Montague Q X Burton,

18/12/2007 18:08:25
Here's a photo of my big boy*.

* Caution contains graphic imagery likely to frighten unionists and farmyard animals.

http://tinyurl.com/n4omr
464

,

18/12/2007 18:08:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
465

Montague Q X Burton,

18/12/2007 18:15:39
Meths that looks like an alarmed Mohawk!
466

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 18/12/2007 18:16:46
#571 Doonhammer

You are an idiot.
467

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 18:17:50
577. My God, you are the biggest whinger of them all, aren't you. Although World View/Swiss Tony does always try to give you a run for your money.

More investment 'per head'?? What has 'per head' got to do with inward investment, O' genetic disaster?

Have you noticed that the UK takes in nearly 30% of all inward investment into Europe? More than France, Germany, Italy and a host of other countries combined?

And as for your banal 'electricity interconnector' moan....superb!
468

,

18/12/2007 18:22:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
469

An English Voice™,

18/12/2007 18:24:06
Forgot to mention that the UK was taking 40-50% of all investment into Europe in the late nineties....with the same as all the rest of Europe combined in 1998 and 1999.
470

Richardinho,

18/12/2007 18:24:15
'the whole business rates fiasco is an attempt to steal Tory votes which has backfired pitifully. What about the effects on the rest of the UK of all this? Are you Nats so myopic that you care nothing about, for example, Northern Ireland’s attempts to attract new business being thwarted by the favourable tax regime set in place by the SNP. Can’t you Nats see beyond your own back lawn? “Parochial” is just too mild a word for you lot!'

You sometimes wonder how stupid unionists can actually get! I don't see what is remotely noble or indeed SANE about giving up an advantage to a competitor!

Sadly it seems the socialist unionist mindset is incapable of understanding these simple concepts!

The good news is that if both countries are forced to compete rigorously it should bring economic benefits to both countries.

471

Warden An' All, Reborn,

18/12/2007 18:25:46
"Salmond to be brought before MSPs to explain actions over Trump plan" - I can see it now, do you remember what happened with wendy alexander and the way she didn't do what was said she did, well I didn't do what is said I have done in the very same way, says salmond. ;-)
472

Nikostratos,

18/12/2007 18:27:07
"summoned before a Holyrood committee"

Summons the First First Minister to be given a summons.He'll be wearing a different pair of cufflinks that day. Handcuff links put on by the boy's in blue.

I'll be there bit like at "le Guillotine" next up ayrshire scot....tm...he...he..he
followed by the rest of the nationalist tribe..chop..chop..

http://www.blastmilk.com/decollete/gallery/guillotine/guillotine20.jpg
473

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 18:30:57
I like asking people for their thoughts – it makes me sound an open minded fanatical saddo. I’m just a visionary who takes an interest in something that very few others give a second thought to (or so I thought, until I saw that wonderful 40% poll!). It must be catching. Just don’t die of ignorance, everyone! Watch this space! Independence is just around the corner and the unionistas know it, which is why they can only resort to their usual smears and evasion.
474

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 18:32:07
585 English Voice, old hockey stick, you are still blustering rather a lot. Investment per head - simple really, an investment in Ireland which yields £1 billion in invremental Corporation Tax leaves £1 bn to spend on services for 3.5 million people. An investment in the Uk which yields £1 bn in corporation tax leaves £1 bn to spend among 60 million people. Do you see the difference? Ireland has been more successful than the UK in investment dividends per head, of all types.
475

 Ayrshire Scot™,

18/12/2007 18:36:08
589 When you say, in a garbled way, that Wendy did not do what she is accussed of, aree you referring to the two public statements admitting that the law was broken?

"With Labour in Scotland openly acknowledging the law has been broken, criminal investigations both north and south of the border now seem inevitable. ...
www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1867076.0.0.php - 53k "

476

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 18:44:40
I'm just disgusted: I always thought that politicians were one big criminal investigation waiting to happen, until the massiah came along, but now he's proved to be a sinful massiah. Trump is Satan and he has tempted him with a golden apple away up north where they used to vote Tory until they started voting Tartan Tory.
477

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 18/12/2007 18:48:32
Another tabloid headline from the Daily Scotsman Record.

And the content doesn't get much better:

"The other three political parties are preparing to gang up on the First Minister, causing him maximum discomfort." (Scotsman Opinion)

Then:

"A spokesman described the idea as "sensible" and said: "The First Minister has previously said he is very open and available to parliamentary committees, and is perfectly relaxed with this, as ministers and civil servants have conducted themselves totally correctly throughout." (Fact)

Why so much contradiction Scotsman? Is the sensationalism there just to try and sell the paper? And it took two reporters to write this!

The BIG story here is that Nicol has been sidelined, and has ended up looking like a real fool. His conduct in creating a circus out of this will not be forgotton in the North East.
478

Nikostratos,

18/12/2007 18:51:30
#594 soon for madam Guillotin

yes we can confirm 60% thats right 60% are not interested in independence. And after the trial of the First Minster when all the skelly's fall out of the cupboard.we will be back up to the 85% and the nats will be back in Jail.


Smears yeah well you'd like to have one i bet yeah.he..he
479

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 18:51:55
#598 Andrew BOD: why is there a conspiracty against us in the press? Anyone would think that independence isn't a wonderful and sensible idea! No, that can't be it: they must all be in the pay of unionist lizard men.
480

Nikostratos,

18/12/2007 18:52:14
#599

well said Smears..he..he
481

Ayrshire Scot.™,

18/12/2007 18:58:17
#599 Nikostratos: anyone who opposes independence is one huge smear on the country as a whole. However, we in the SNP are tolerant of collaborators: we just laugh off their objections.
482

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 19:03:16
#575 - EV - you said "cheapest location" , as we were talking about business rates I said Scotland would win as it was going to lower rates. You brought in the slashed public services.

I said "yes lower services in all the areas with higher taxes!" As in Enlgand with the higher taxes. Thats what i was dribbling on about old bean.

Tally ho!Where's my peasant to beat.........

483

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 19:05:09
#575 - And amy I say EV. You have lost the plot.

Also 1 question. What does mrs EV do whilst your thumping away infront of your computer, and when your replying to posts on here of course ;-)
484

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

18/12/2007 19:05:51
MAY - sorry typo
485

McGinty,

18/12/2007 19:06:13
Trump, Romanov, what's the difference..
486

Conan the Librarian™,

18/12/2007 19:10:21
Ayrshire Scot.™

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/2006/11/dot-fades-out.jpg

Please comply.
487

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/12/2007 19:14:53
This is amazing. That's 3 times I've had to log in.

Once you post you cannot use your browser button to return to the home page. You have to use the Scotsman's own home page button.

Wonder how many exta "visits" they are claiming for all the clicking that is going on because this format is amateur compared to the previous one.