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Salmond: I'd have acted to save HBOS



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Published Date: 21 September 2008
ALEX Salmond last night triggered a bitter cross-border row over the HBOS crisis by suggesting that if he had been in charge of an independent nation, Scotland's oldest bank could have been saved from takeover.
The First Minister claimed Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling stood "idly by" as a deal was done to merge HBOS with Lloyds TSB, failing to give the Scottish institution the backing it needed.

Salmond said he would have advanced billions of pounds of credit to HBOS – which employs 17,000 people north of the border – in a bid to ensure its short-term survival while the financial storm raged.

The loan of public money – possibly as much as £100bn – would have helped quell market fears that the bank did not have the cash to meet its mortgage liabilities. Salmond's aides say that in an independent Scotland, a Scottish central bank would have lent the cash to ensure the company was safe.

Salmond said: "No country can insulate itself from mergers and takeovers, but very few countries would so idly stand by and allow their oldest, key financial institution to be left in the position that HBOS was left in last week."

Salmond also claimed that he would stand a better chance of convincing Lloyds TSB bosses to keep their headquarters in Scotland if the country was independent. With full powers, Salmond says he would cut corporation tax, giving such firms an incentive to stay north of the border.

But the First Minister's comments triggered an angry response from Downing Street insiders who accused Salmond of "economic illiteracy".

Bank of England sources also said that bailout funds were available if HBOS had wanted them, but they were not called for. Senior executives at Lloyds TSB said the takeover deal was done for "commercial reasons" and not out of panic.

Darling said: "There was no request for a line of credit and, frankly, things were way beyond that. They needed a permanent commercial resolution and that is what we achieved."

In another development yesterday, the US government revealed it is preparing to spend $700bn (£382bn) buying up "bad" mortgages as part of a massive financial bail-out to tackle the credit crisis.

The US Treasury is proposing the fund to buy back a large proportion of the bad debt in the US mortgage market. Business insiders fear the total cost of the bail-out could rise to as much as $1 trillion (£545bn) or $1,000,000,000,000.

The row over HBOS intensified yesterday as one MSP said she would contact police and ask them to investigate claims there had been an abuse of market rules as the merger was being discussed.

Keith Skeoch, chief executive of Standard Life Investments, said there had been a delay before the talks were formally announced, a possible breach of stock market rules which dictate that a formal announcement must be made. Had such an announcement been made before Wednesday morning, many believe that the sudden drop in HBOS's share price which triggered the takeover might have been averted.

Lothian MSP Margo MacDonald yesterday said she would be contacting the police. She said: "It has been alleged that the stock market rules have been broken. If the merger had been made public, HBOS's shares would never have fallen as they did. All we know for

sure is that now this company will make billions of pounds of cash from rationalising jobs at a time when people are really facing the pinch."

Last night, Salmond also said that the merger was still not a "fait accompli" until shareholders had given their approval. He said that the merger – which was only disclosed through the BBC on Wednesday as HBOS's shares fell through the floor – was "highly unusual".

However, Salmond said that after the Financial Services Authority had declared that HBOS was in good stead last week, the Government should have backed it up. "The expectation would be that it would be backed up… your financial institutions should stand behind that institution. That is what they are there to do."

He said the job of persuading Lloyds TSB to stay in Scotland "would be a lot easier" if Scotland were independent. "If I was able to go in and point out that corporation tax was significantly lower in Scotland than it was in London then I suspect the discussions would end in a handshake, and wouldn't take all that long."

Salmond's claims were attacked by Downing Street. One source said: "Alex Salmond is either economically illiterate or he knows he is being disingenuous. The facts of the matter are that there were fundamentals in the bank that had to be addressed. He knows that without the UK Government a great Scottish institution would have gone under."

Treasury officials say there was no alternative to the merger, insisting such was the condition of HBOS, it had to make a deal. But that was disputed last night by the Bank of England's former chief adviser, Sir Charles Goodhart, who said that if the Government had not been so slow to extend its special liquidity scheme – which offers emergency cash for stricken banks – HBOS might have refinanced its mortgages and avoided having to be taken over.

The focus will now shift to attempts to save HBOS jobs in Scotland, as Salmond chairs a summit with the Scottish Council for Development and Industry (SCDI). On Tuesday, Salmond will hold private talks with executives from Lloyds TSB. In what may be seen as a snub to Salmond, Scotland on Sunday understands that Lloyds TSB chairman Sir Victor Blank will not attend the talks.

Salmond is to call for key functions of the new super-bank, including its lucrative corporate and investment wings, to remain in Scotland. Writing in Scotland on Sunday today, Salmond says: "One of the reasons that the Scottish economy to date has been so much stronger in resisting financial downturn is precisely because of the successful companies supported by innovative investment from the Bank of Scotland."

Scottish Secretary Des Browne said that he, too, would be working this week to secure Scottish jobs. "I want to reassure the families of those who work at HBOS and Lloyds TSB who fear for their jobs that the Government is doing all we can to help," he said. "I am in discussions with colleagues and we can all take some comfort from the commitment to keep the Edinburgh headquarters and focus on preserving Scottish jobs. It is important that we all focus on that to focus on the global economy challenges as they are."

The full article contains 1104 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

21/09/2008 00:05:15
And Nero fiddled whilst Rome Burned.

Alex Salmond would have presided over HBOS going bust.

We are lucky that Lloyds TSB was there to save it.
2

Rufus T. Firefly,

21/09/2008 00:07:40
As the article says......

"Alex Salmond is either economically illiterate or he knows he is being disingenuous. The facts of the matter are that there were fundamentals in the bank that had to be addressed. He knows that without the UK Government a great Scottish institution would have gone under."
3

Rufus T. Firefly,

21/09/2008 00:11:19
#4 I hope the Scotsman has tracked your IP address and reports you to the police.
4

Jock MacSprog,

21/09/2008 00:13:31
AS likes to deal in "ifs" in the imaginary world that he lives in. Well I suppose "if" I were the king of spain, I'd live in a nice palace, but alas I'm not and not likely to every be. AS would have done something "if" he was in charge of an independent nation, well he isnt and its not a devolved matter, so he has nothing real to say or do about it. Its like the mayor of Tillicoultry saying that if he was the PM he would do this or that. Its what sad people with no power do, they pretend. The powers that be in London running the real UK govt must just chuckle with bemusement when they here tripe like this. Makes one rather embarrassed to be Scottish with a troll like this in charge of the region.
5

Charles Linskaill,

Again! waiting for DYW me a taxi 21/09/2008 00:16:13



'Yeah Yeah'!,......

Broon would of saved the HBOS maybe, but more the case,.....

'Pigs might fly'
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 21/09/2008 00:21:04


#4,

That was a very inapt comment.

7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 21/09/2008 00:25:13


God! The Scotsman is on the ball tonight!

Sorry #4 that wasn't you anymore.
8

,

21/09/2008 00:25:57
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9

,

21/09/2008 00:27:39
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,

21/09/2008 00:28:52
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11

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 21/09/2008 00:34:30
And all this time he has been telling us that he has created stability , that he has put an end to boom and bust, that the economy is better placed to weather the economic slowdown.

First sign of trouble and he is forced to nationalise Northern rock.

Next time he feeds HBOS to the vultures. AND rewrites his market competition rulebook to allow a "superbank".

If this is stability ,then I must be The Screaming Lord Sutch.

I am just dreading what is going to happen next.
12

Highland Property Bubble,

Inverness 21/09/2008 00:45:34
What a load of complete tosh from wee Eck.
HBOS was in effect facing bankruptcy due to its dire financial situation and was saved from going under by Lloyds.
Wee Eck has repeatedly claimed that the headquarters of the new organization should be situated in Edinburgh. Just who is he trying to kid?
It makes me feel ashamed to be Scottish when our so-called "first" minister is spouting such nonsense. He is an embarrassment to our country.
13

,

21/09/2008 00:50:54
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14

Senga Jean,

21/09/2008 00:52:01
Alex Salmond is not only correct he is also worthy of respect. Bank of Scotland was "taken over" by Halifax and that was a disaster. The BOS moved from responsible banking to barrow boy selling and "OUCH" Scotland deserves better. Scotland deserves INDEPENDENCE.
15

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21/09/2008 00:52:04
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16

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 21/09/2008 00:54:00
For three days now I've been saying it.
OK, you've done the rhetoric thing, Alex. Broon is covering in the corner like a wee mousie.
Now call in the cops. There are a lot of London suits who should be cleaning motorway merges on Kenny MacAskill's chain gang.
17

Highland Property Bubble,

Inverness 21/09/2008 00:54:59
Joe-kerr Are you on drugs?
18

Jock MacSprog,

Embra 21/09/2008 00:55:09
15, you can always tell when a Nat is flustered, they accuse everyone of not being Scottish, or in any case, not as Scottish as they are. But they can never actually define what is Scottish. What a joke this Northern Area of Britain has become. Very sad.
19

Nellie,

Liverpool 21/09/2008 00:56:39
Hmmm I wonder if Alex would care to bail out all the estate agents suffering greatly from the collapse of the housing market and the furniture and carpet sellers, and their manufacturers, because they are falling over since too few people are moving house and refurnishing? What's good for the goose ...
20

Willie,

21/09/2008 00:57:32
I view with concern MSPs and MPs constantly using the Police to further their political aims.
If and its a big if the rules have been broken Margo would be better referring any complaint to the FSA, but of course that doesn't have the same ring to it.
The Police are not there to do the bidding of MSPs they are there to apprehend criminals.
21

,

21/09/2008 00:59:46
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,

21/09/2008 01:01:35
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23

subrosa,

21/09/2008 01:04:53
There must be some dodgy Scotch being poured in Manchester tonight with all these labourites appearing with their drivel.

Don't worry though comrades, things will only get worse.
24

,

21/09/2008 01:06:56
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25

Castaway,

21/09/2008 01:29:32
Downing Street insiders who accused Salmond of "economic illiteracy".
Sources also close to Downing Street say that they do not believe Alex Salmond has an degree a MA in Economics and History nor that he joined the Royal Bank of Scotland, for which he worked until 1987, first as an assistant economist, then as the Oil Economist and latterly as Royal Bank Economist.
26

Richardinho,

21/09/2008 01:29:35
#20 And you can always tell a Unionist self-hater-they start off criticizing a single poster on a message board and quickly jump to denouncing the entire country in their usual defeatist manner.
27

Forward not Back,

21/09/2008 01:32:14
Even with the apparent economic might of an independent Scotland, the hedge funds would have triumphed. They knew they had a one way bet and would have poured trillions in to ensure they won.

What cost HBoS was the timing of the American bailout. If that had been in place earlier in the week, HBoS would still exist in its present shape, albeit a lot weaker.
28

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE McCain 21/09/2008 01:37:59
Salmond: I'd have acted to save HBOS

Like Dudes.
How would Salmond have acted ?
He has no money and its all about money ...DUHHhhhhh

There are no deep pockets in Scotland to bail out anyone or anything.

But there is bunches of whinning and squawking usless rethoric.

Suck it up dudes and move on

HBOS...R.I.P.

GC
29

,

21/09/2008 02:10:59
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30

S'me,

Edinburgh 21/09/2008 02:12:52
Don't embarras yourself Alex.
31

Marky Bhoy,

Scotland 21/09/2008 02:26:16

All if's and but's

But no doubt a Scottish Government with full powers would have done more to save the bank

Brown and Darling are the Scottish version of Marshall Petain

No we wont shoot you but just F**k off quietley into the sunset

Both are guilty of treason
32

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 21/09/2008 02:26:39



GalacticCannibal ~32,


Got to admit, that 'IS' about the size of it!

"All's Done and Dusted"

NO Point in the 'crying over spilt milk'!,...

IT WONT CHANGE A THING NOW!!

'Like it or Lump it' Get Real and "move-on"!!
33

Guga II,

Rockall 21/09/2008 02:35:26
Once again Maggie Broon has sold Scotland and the Scottish people down the river. I hope all the people who are going to lose their jobs because of him will remember how he sold them out.

Vidkun Quisling was also a "son of the manse".

34

FORT RANSID,

21/09/2008 02:37:13
#33 McPravda blog,(perhaps)


Careful with the gratuitous insults Tommy

Paul Nicholas is not dead - just resting

Have you proofed your base against attack from rapidly uploaded cyclic data?

http://fiddlefuddle.blogspot.com/
35

a voice in the wilderness,

south america 21/09/2008 02:52:13
After suffering economic hardship "banana republic style",Bonnie Scotland really needs to take a real good look; at all of its institutions.
If it doesn't want to become a 3rd World economy.
Remember "a hoose divided by itself will fall"
Asylum seeker,criminal element,corrupt politicians and WHITE COLLARED DISHONESTY...will bring an otherwise civilised country to its bare archie.
Act now ,be tough and just or pay the consequences.

RBS BE WARNED...your staff are already incompetent;speaking from past dealings.
36

a voice in the wilderness,

south america 21/09/2008 02:52:16
After suffering economic hardship "banana republic style",Bonnie Scotland really needs to take a real good look; at all of its institutions.
If it doesn't want to become a 3rd World economy.
Remember "a hoose divided by itself will fall"
Asylum seeker,criminal element,corrupt politicians and WHITE COLLARED DISHONESTY...will bring an otherwise civilised country to its bare archie.
Act now ,be tough and just or pay the consequences.

RBS BE WARNED...your staff are already incompetent;speaking from past dealings.
37

Forward not Back,

21/09/2008 02:58:09
Oh, and BTW, if Salmond had had the power to 'save' HBoS (nationalise it), the sharks would have moved on to RBS.

Then, assuming Scottish taxpayers would have stomached this, they would have turned their guns on National Australia Bank, owners of Clydesdale. What would Mr Salmond have done in this situation?
38

Stephen fae Scotland,

San Francisco (& Edinburgh) 21/09/2008 03:05:34
Oh yeah!! A wee bit late - Halifax took it over years ago!

Anyway should someone tell fatty king on the Gnats that the Bank of Scotland (my bank) was founded by an Englishmen. Hate to think what that'd do to his enthusiasm for HBOS.
39

Marky Bhoy,

Scotland 21/09/2008 03:11:55

43/

Stephen what is it like to despise your own country so much
40

FORT RANSID,

21/09/2008 03:20:31
#43

Qnionists are McThick

Gnats don't hate the Saxons

They hate YOU

And i can't say that i blame them

i would vote for them myself

but only if they advocatethnicleansng
41

FORT RANSID,

21/09/2008 03:26:58
hmm salmond did berate the gruesome twosome for "standing idly by"

mayhap there is hope for him yet

42

Guga II,

Rockall 21/09/2008 03:31:19
#43.

Why do you insist on spouting rubbish?

The Bank of Scotland was founded by an Act of the Scottish parliament in 1695.
43

Yankee girl,

USA 21/09/2008 03:38:50
Not too sure what Salmond could have really accomplished with his £100bn government loan, a mere band-aid in the face of an issue that is inter-connected at a global level. Our govt. and yours are trying all these temporary stop-gap measures, lets all hope at least some of it will work!!
44

,

21/09/2008 03:48:41
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45

Willie Macleod,

Wick 21/09/2008 03:50:49
#48 Yankee girl At last someone who understands and responds to the issue at hand.
46

Yankee girl,

USA 21/09/2008 04:00:38
#50 Thank you, Willie Macleod. All I really know is fear at this point!

I've been to Wick, by the way. Many years ago.
47

The Pict.,

Canada 21/09/2008 04:01:35
Once again the loosers, cap in hand, curry the favour of their English er British, masters. BIG Eck is the only leader standing up for Scotland while the 'canny dae that' unionists English Lackies laugh as they are happy that once again the English er British screwed Scotland.
Independence for Scotland will make sure that Scotland is for the people of Scotland. Good news for the unionists....You can go and live in England.
Slaite mhath.
48

Willie Macleod,

Wick 21/09/2008 04:26:26
#51There is nothing to fear but fear itself as someone said anyway When were you in Wick
49

Yankee girl,

USA 21/09/2008 04:34:43
#53 I was in Wick in 1994, I believe. Wasn't Caithness Glass there? I visited it and was completely fascinated.
50

Willie Macleod,

Wick 21/09/2008 04:56:13
#54 Yankee girl Sorry to say Caithness Glass closed down in Wick a few years ago.

I hope the you enjoyed your time in Wick and you will come back to Caithness sometime.

All the best Willie
51

Walter Ego,

Durness 21/09/2008 05:03:11
What a chancer. The people of Scotland now see the Blessed Alex for what he is - a party political opportunist who puts self and party before the national interest. I thought that the SNP were meant to be different.
52

donald,

glasgow 21/09/2008 05:14:14
The Bank of Scotland was a Williamite Unionist bank. The RBS was a Jacobite and anti Unionist bank.

The Scottish Trustee Savings Bank was nationalised from London and came backs a privatised English bank. Halifax ripped out the marble and oak fittings from the BoS and replaced it with tatty chipboard spiv counters in the fewer branches remaining. No more could you contact the local branch manager for trusted advice. Instead you had to phone a call centre person in Yorkshire who hadn't a clue about anything and was more concerned with trying to sell you dodgy Arfur Daly deals. Their cold calling was about as useful as a Clegg on the phone.
53

camster,

E Kilbride 21/09/2008 05:22:39
The UK property market party is over and it is time to move on. Scotland has one global bank RBS and there is no room for two. It would be much better if Alex spent his time worrying about cutting business rates. It is now over a year since the SNP came to power and I still don't see a clear strategy to get the economy moving.

54

somerferg,

perth 21/09/2008 05:32:33

Losing the will to live when this thread is full of clowns yapping on about visiting Wick and slagging off Alex Salmond for doing what exactly - oh yes standing up for Scotland and critising the blessed Ma Broon and her wee lapdug Darling. Just as well I understand that the majority are wee monkeys with red rosettes.
55

CASEY PURVIS,

WEST HILLS 21/09/2008 05:36:24
SOLVE THE PROBLEM
INDEPENDENCE
casey purvis
56

W Smith,

Middle East 21/09/2008 05:51:11
Oil-less Singapore, like other asian countries, got hit with the financial crisis around '97/'98 thanks to the devaluation of the Thai bhat.

Oil-less Singapore came out of the financial crisis faster than the surrounding countries thanks to the huge financial reserves, which stand today at around 300 billion pounds.

Some of this money was ploughed into large construction projects that helped the economy through the bad times.

Pretty simple strategy based on granny-type financial advice that says you have to save for a 'rainy day'.

Unfortuanetly this type of thinking isn't big amongst Scottish politicians or Scottish journalists who always become experts after the event.

Singapore's projected economic growth for 2008 has been downgraded to 'only' 4.0% due to the current economic crisis.

Kind of says it all about how Scotland and the UK is managed.
57

terry osser,

morden 21/09/2008 05:56:17
boycott rowling
58

Richard1,

21/09/2008 05:56:55
62,Does Singapore have $310bn of USA T-Bills,our interest alone on that is probably more than the real money growth rate of Singapore.

If that is the best you can do,you really are on loser.
59

Richard1,

21/09/2008 06:04:37
W/Smith,you fail to mention the Singapore GDP is $161bn,with 5m people odd.

So let me get this straight you are a SNP supporter and you now want Scotland to have a GDP of aroung £85-90bn,well Scotland's GDP is currently £120bn so what the hell are you talking about man?

And 4% GDP growth rate approx,$6bn a year added to GDP,4% GDp growth rate for UK GDP would be $120bn,UMMMM,A BIT OF A DIFFERENCE THERE SMITHY.
60

winzip12,

Klein Meckelsen 21/09/2008 06:10:29
Hope all of you with advance orders for The Tales of Beedle the Bard will be cancelling them now......
61

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 06:25:16
64

So what? what does it matter what Scotlands GDP is while its in the union? Scotland exists on the money its gets from the Barnett formula the rest goes to the treasury doesnt it?
Singapore doesnt have to hand over its entire national income to another country in order to get some of it back to exist on so who's better off?
62

Richard1,

21/09/2008 06:35:27
66,hand over it's entire national income,well my god you have 100% tax in Scotland then,OH!AS right then,you are hard done by,maybe not,i think you have made a bit of a braindead comment there.

And what is this fantastic wealth you speak of,Scotland is the oldest part of the UK,and is ageing much faster than the constituate parts of the UK.

Scotland is the Sickest part of the UK.

Glasgow is the crime Capital of EU,

But of course silly me it is the English stabbing people,causing gang wars,sectarian strife,making you drink yourselfs to death.

All you SNP lot,should perhaps look in the mirror if you want to see the problem.
63

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 06:50:32
67

Thats right numbnuts 100% of our income tax goes to the treasury where else does it go?
Who collects our income tax?
Our VAT?
Our inheritance tax?
Our TV licence?
Our N S resourse tax?
Our Road Tax?
Our capital gains tax?
Our Corporation tax?

Where does it all go? let me give you a clue it begins with L and ends in ondon.

And as for the rest is this more government derived data and stats?
The same sourse that gives us our honest unemployment figures our honest inflation figures and our honest immigration figures?

GTF ya party political clown.

64

Kenny A,

21/09/2008 07:05:49
47 Guga

The bank was founded by an Englishman and The bank of England by a Scotsman.

However your comments about son of the manse ring true, was Wendy Alexander also a son or daughter (I am confused about that creature), also not one.

Salmond could have done nothing and would have been better saying nothing.
65

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:05:50
68,you really need to read up,get an eduction you do not pay 100% tax.

Some information for you:

Scottish exports per month-1.9bn,78% go to England.
English exports per month-29.6bn,97% ouside UK.


Cards on the table time,England needs the Union to keep its integral land lass mass under its control,the UK in other words,Scotland is a drag on the UK economy if truth be told,everytime A/S has said in the last 40yrs you have not matched UK GDP growth rate,then logically you are subtracting from the UK total(dragging it down)you really want to be careful what you ask for,you might just get it.
66

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:08:40
70

Meaningless waffle you just cant get around the fact that Scotland exists on the Barnett formula while handing over its national income to the treasury and all the lies bullsh*t and made up stats isnt going to be able to hide THAT FACT.
67

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:10:24
70

And by the way AM2 why dont you come out from behind yer multi logons?
68

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:10:57
71,truth is those stats are a bit uncomfortable for, you are they not?
69

Richard1,

England, 21/09/2008 07:12:05
I an not that Am2 person,my name is Richard and i am from the midlands in England.
70

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:12:16
72

Been doon this road at least twice now ya wee troll.
The LSE is legislated partly by Scotland as well as England unless Scotland gives up that right willingly.
71

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:13:34
74

Lies and bullsh*t should make any reasonable person feel uncomfortable you however seem to revel in them.
72

Rufus T. Firefly,

21/09/2008 07:13:48
Can we get Salmond over to Switzerland quickly?

We need someone to fix the Hadron Collider.

Salmond can do anything. Can't he?
73

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:14:16
75

Yes of course a troll by any other name.
74

Rufus T. Firefly,

21/09/2008 07:17:37
If Salmond has a spare £100m to bail out a bank which operates predominantly in England and Wales, can he use some of the cash to provide the promised 1000 police officers?
75

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:18:22
You just can't argue facts,you say Scotland has all this wealth,what wealth?

Your SNP own figures say,without something called oil found in the North Sea you get £10bn back more than you pay in.

Why not stop blaming England for everything and start contributing to your economy and make it better within UK,in the next 20yrs your economy is going to struggle to grow as OAP's become ever larger population,more NHS spending will be required,less tax base,Scotland will be no more than 5% of the UK population in a couple on decades,is it not about time you took that chip off your shoulder and realised your place within the UK.

England and Scotland are not equal,England is 10 times larger,you may not like it,deal with it,like Wales has to.
76

Madame Ecosse,

Edinburgh 21/09/2008 07:19:52
Haha. Salmond is "economically illiterate"?

Remind me, who is the economist by trade here? And who is the 'historian'?
77

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:21:35
70

I do hope your not including NS oil in those figures for Englands exports and leaving them out of Scotland are you?
78

Kenny A,

21/09/2008 07:24:08
67 Richard

Interesting comments, looked in the mirror and saw no problem, Good looking type that I am. Scotland is not the crime capital of the EU, parts of Scotland in the central belt are as you mentioned Glasgow. Statistics can be made to look like what you wish them to. The North of Scotland is about the most crime free area on Earth which you failed to mention.

As for the fantastic wealth of Scotland thats simple it has all gone to Westminister and London. The statistics that cropped up now and again showed London was doing well but it was all finance not manufacturing related. Now that greed and reality are coming home to roost and the dole ques are filling up with bankers I wonder what will be said next.

As for Scotland being the oldest part of the UK very true both Geographicaly and from the human point. Old people get old because they have tended to live a long time, cant think of anyother way to get old. In order to live a long time you are usualy healthy. So what are you on about. Mabey the English would get older if they were not stabbing teenagers to death on a regular basis.

Scotland can exist without England, I doubt if the opposit can be said. England is very dependant on Scotland and Wales for power and water not to even mention oil.

As to figures mentioned by other posters smake and bloo-dy mirrors.
79

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:26:11
83,English exports.
*monthly exports*
£19BN goods
£9-11BN Service(mostly financial)

NO I CAN'T SEE ANY OIL IN THERE.
80

Kenny A,

21/09/2008 07:27:28
81 Richard

time to sink you for good, yes Scotland is small by population, but you have been run by scotts, the army is heavily scottish as is the navy, most english dont even like the english. england is a mess and i dont like messes.
81

Rufus T. Firefly,

21/09/2008 07:28:57
Salmond is a bit like the Lib Dems.

He will never be in a position of power (apart from a 1 seat majority in a Mickey Mouse Talking Shop) so he can promise anything he likes.

It will never be put to the test.
82

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:32:25
Kenny,A,is that the best you can do?

let me get this straight,you are saying England is divided,what like Protestants & Catholics perhaps,You are kidding right?

Again kenny,that quaint English saying'THOSE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES,SHOULDN'T THROW STONES'.
83

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:32:40
81

"You just can't argue facts,you say Scotland has all this wealth,what wealth?"

Point to the post where I made that statement or implication even?

Scotland has its own income which it hands over to the Westminster government in exchange for some of it back derived from a formula based on the UK population ratio
Thats all I have claimed today so stop yer lying and yer waffling if you have any conviction about what you are posting and are not really here as a wind up troll.

If you believe in anything you post why do you have to hide behind lies and waffle?

"Your SNP own figures say,without something called oil found in the North Sea you get £10bn back more than you pay in."

Really show me?
Without NS oil Scotland only generates 20 billion in income is that right? must be as our last barnett formula derived gift from London was 30bn.

So Scotland only generates 20bn per annum from all of its taxation including business and corporation VAT etc less NS revenue? while similar sized countries without oil can generate hundreds of billions?
And on top of all that havent you already claimed on another blog today that Scotlands GDP increaces by 4% per annum?

Your starting to trip over your own lies this early in the blog.

84

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:34:54
85

Dont see any real details or proof either just a number plucked from your imagination.
85

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA: for more WAR VOTE McCain 21/09/2008 07:36:07
Hey dudes .

We attacked IRAQ who did not attack us. But the evil Bush had his way.
And so far, the US taxpayer has been ripped off to the tune of 700 billion dollars prosecuting the WAR in IRAQ.

This week the US tax payer will be ripped off again , for another 700 billion dollars to bail out Wall Street criminals , who wallow in greed up to their lying eyeballs.

The saddest part of my country is, that possibly 150 million + Americans are poorly educated . never read a book , can not spell English, and are so complacent they are stupid.

They want everything for nothing and rely on staged sound bites on TV to tell them the earth is not flat.

All this financial corruption on Wall Street is way over their empty redneck heads.

But wait dudes, the NFL is just round the corner, and Hannah Montana age 15, made $76 million dollars in 2007, and she has a 20 year old boyfriend. Very important stuff..... And Britney Spears sister Jamie (16) had her first baby.

Not forgetting Miss Barbie Doll Flim Flam Sarah Palin, who could be the Pres of the USA , if McCain is elected but croaks during his inauguration, while he is holding the Bible.

Happy hour is a chilled Margarita with rimmed sea salt.

Don't panic dudes

We dumb American taxpayers are easily ripped off by the evil pols. in Washington. But maybe one day we will revolt and enough is enough,

GC (still smiling)
86

Rufus T. Firefly,

21/09/2008 07:37:06
Did anybody see the Gaelic channel on Friday Night?

BBC 2 still showed 2 hours of Gaelic Programs at the same time.

What a joke.

All the crofters and sheep farmers now have their own channel, but they are still forcing this nonsense on everybody else via one of the main channels.
87

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:39:06
89,now you really have lost me.

Are you talking about the bloke Smithy,who said Singapore had 4% growth & i pointed out they only had $161bn GDP,ans 4% growth means just $6bn then said if UK has 4% growth it would be $120bn,yea that is true.

I did not say Scotland had 4% GDP growth,in fact i didn't mention Scotland at all.

KEEP SMOCKING THE WEED!
88

John S,

21/09/2008 07:39:09
Why is the UK (English)dominated Parliament desperate to keep Scotland within the UK ? Why this fixation with Scotland why not just tell us to p*** off and let us decide our own future ?
Why if we have been such a drain on English resources for so long, why didn't they kick us out years ago ?
89

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 21/09/2008 07:39:13
Salmond didn't have the fight or bottle to stop the other parties clubbing together and voting for trams and him to use his executive powers (as he could have) and overturned the vote.

Easy to say has the fight to take on banks but his record in adversity doesn't suggest he does.
90

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:41:25
93

So what is Scotlands present GDP figure? and how does it tie in with it only being able to generate 20bn withour NS oil revenue?
91

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:42:16
95

Got tired of being ignored as Rufus already?
92

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:46:24
94,because we want to control our land mass,i won't lie,but that is what its like having a nieghbour who is 10 times bigger than you.

Unlike Wales,and N-Ireland they just live with the fact that centuries old rivalry has been put to bed,(apart from sport of course)Scotland is only equal to England in SNP eye's,you must be mad to think it is really.

Scotland should live & thrive in the UK union,like IrEland has to do in the EU union,your choice UK/EU,one way or another you will be dominated because of your size,COME INTO THE REAL WORLD,ANG GET THAT 3 CENTURY CHIP OFF YOUR SHOULDER,IT MUST HURT.
93

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:47:26
98

"The LSE us under the authority of the UK parliament. So your sentence only make sense in the context of "our" 59 MPs in that parliament"

Really find that in a constitutional law book did you or did you just make that up yet again?
94

Calgacas,

21/09/2008 07:49:59
73

Definately the drivel spouting ranter AM2.

95

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:51:07
99

Oh thats right just ignore the 20 year bloody conflict in Northern Ireland and the continuing fight for independence by political means within Stormont.
And of course Plaid Cymru is just a figmant of the imagination.
Now yer just being a prat.
96

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 21/09/2008 07:51:45
HBOS was rescued and bought up by Halifax some years ago now. It had ceased to be Scottish property; only the name and buildings remained, not the ownership or management.

If Fat Ecky is so clever then why didn't he try to close this stable door BEFORE the horse bolted?

Is resorting to grubby sound bite politics really all the SNumptyP has to offer? Independence would have made not a jot of difference in this case.
97

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:52:02
101

What gives it away?
98

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:53:22
104

When has he ever had the political power to close the door before or after the horse bolted? that only exists with full independence and certainly wouldnt exist under any fake federation set up.
99

John S,

21/09/2008 07:56:14
#99 In the EU an independent Scotland would have a veto plus more seats in the EU Parliament.
100

Richard1,

21/09/2008 07:56:57
To all the SNP on here,who just live in the 1700,s,i have a question,how big would RBS,HBOS be if Scotland had never been in the Union,and therefore it only had to survive almost totally of it's own 5m population.

A:It would have been taken over by another foriegn bank decades ago,both RBS & HBOS.
101

Queen D,

Glasgow 21/09/2008 07:58:31
I'm just sooo impressed by all you clever people who appear to be sooo informed about investments ,share buying/selling and banking in general that you can criticisize the FM and the boss of RBS , giving them advice on what they should be doing and saying.

I take it you are all in high positions within the banking sector and make mega bucks at the expense of the client base?
I'm even more impressed that as such you can spend time as bloggers on newspaper site spreading your wit and wisdom before the stupid and clueless like myself.

It's really kind of you all to let the enfeebled in on banking history and banking future.

However, I do hope I offend no-one by saying I think I'll let Mr Salmond be the final arbiter on this one , along with his pal from RBS.
102

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 07:59:44
103

Idiot boy constitutionally we are in a union of equals not in reality of course but in this case it matters.
Scotland and England constitutionally share legislation over parliament and its responsibilties thats the act of union for you now stop being a dick get a hold of some real facts before you play with the big boys.
When the UK Parliament disolves and reforms as 2 seperate parliaments the legislation over the UK assets will have to be thrashed out in an agreement between the two parties including the LSE.
Some including the LSE may even have to be shared.
103

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 21/09/2008 08:00:56
108

How about answering some outstanding questions before asking for answers to new ones?