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Protesting monks dash China's show of peace in Tibet

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Published Date: 28 March 2008
By Charles Hutzler
Lhasa
A GROUP of monks overturned a carefully orchestrated visit for foreign reporters to Tibet's capital, an embarrassment for the Chinese government struggling yesterday to prove Lhasa was calm.
The government had arranged the trip to show how peaceful Lhasa was after riots shattered China's plans for a peaceful run-up to the Beijing Olympic Games in August.

But the outburst by a group of 30 monks in red robes came as the journalists we
re being shown around the Jokhang Temple – one of Tibet's holiest shrines – by Chinese government handlers.

"Tibet is not free! Tibet is not free!" yelled one young Buddhist monk, who then started to cry.

They insisted their exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, had nothing to do with the anti-government riots in Lhasa, where buildings were burned and looted and ethnic Han Chinese were attacked.

Officials shouted for the journalists to leave and tried to pull them away.

"They want us to curse the Dalai Lama, and that is not right," one monk said during the 15-minute outburst.

"This had nothing to do with the Dalai Lama," said another, referring to the 14 March riots in which the Chinese government says 22 people died, while Tibetan exiles claim the death toll is 140.

Reporters were earlier taken to a Tibet medical clinic that was attacked by protesters and were shown a clothes shop where five girls had been trapped and burned to death.

The monks, who first spoke Tibetan and then switched to Mandarin so journalists could understand them, said they knew they would probably be arrested.

Troops who had been guarding the temple were removed the night before the visit, they said. One monk said authorities planted other monks in the monastery to talk to the journalists, calling them "not true believers but… Communist Party members."

"They are all officials, they (the government] arranged for them to come in. And we aren't allowed to go out because they say we could destroy things, but we never did anything," another monk said.



Later the Chinese-installed vice-governor of Tibet said the Jokhang monks were confined to the monastery because some had joined protesters. He promised they would not be punished for their outburst.





The full article contains 378 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 March 2008 11:36 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 02:05:02
"Reporters were earlier taken to a Tibet medical clinic that was attacked by protesters and were shown a clothes shop where five girls had been trapped and burned to death."

Wonderful, peaceful Tibetans
2

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 03:07:35
Dude , read excerpt below, from BBC reporters who were in Tibet.

Explain why ur communist CCP hand-picked the reporters.

Sounds like the CCP are tyrants and sh*t scared of freedom of expression.

"Reporters hand-picked by China's government arrive in Lhasa, China, marking the beginning of an organized tour of the region following violent demonstrations that erupted earlier this month."


Dude,
Over the past few weeks, I have read u posts and those of P45 and the Dragonhead, (who has disappeared from the radar screen).

And I have no proof that one of U, or all three of U, are trained pawns, in an army of train pawns, let loose on the internet by ur masters the communist CCP.

But the more I read u scribes, the more they sound like responses by trained pawns to me.

So now, my gut feel is ,that U three are indeed trained pawns, of the CCP.

P45 is getting so transparent, he is failing in his attempt to convince me, and possible other posters, that he is not a trained CCP pawn.

Therefore, I will no longer waste my time, answering any further posts from U bunch of trained pawns, of the CCP

Happy NON-Freedom day for Ur crushed 1.3 billion citizens.

GC
3

britfreee,

28/03/2008 03:35:31
#2 GC can't be trusted. GC uses illegal drugs and thinks Bush & Cheney are evil, GC is a nutter.
4

,

28/03/2008 04:52:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 28/03/2008 04:54:53
#4 contd:

50 United States Code, Section 1805.

These provisions are detailed in "The Impeachment of George W. Bush: A Practical Guide for Concerned Citizens," by former Rep. Elizabeth Holtzman.


GC
6

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 05:48:04
#2
Dude, I don't really care if you read my posts or not. Bummer hey.
The journalists were hand picked probably because their reports didn't lie about the earlier unrest, or because they already had security clearance or whatever. Hey, they chose to go. I was offered a tour of Guantanamo Bay prison - where the US and UK continue to hold prionsers illegaly - and I refused. It's as simple as that.
You know nothing of China, you just like to see your stuff written in public. That's fair enough. But dude, you need to look at the cr*p your press is spewing out and exercise some judgement on your own. Ask yourself a few simple questions and you'll begin to see the truth emerge.
I salute your efforts to impeach Bushi, I think he should be made mayor of Baghdad.
7

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 08:11:29
#7 You are obviously confusing me with your personal servant you colonialist upstart. Do your own legwork for a change. Oh, and while you're doing that, pay my respects to Bob Mugabe, will you.
8

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:01:31
Here Bob, knock yourself out.

http://bbs.sina.com.cn/
9

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:02:13
And while you're at it, FREE TAIWAN
10

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:08:10
#8 You whiney human rights advocates put him there. You whiney human rights advocates broke the best government that country has had. You made your government weak, and you're doing exactly the same thing now You obviously never learn, and you won't until you are disenfranchised and taken over by a more aggressive society. For your sake I pray it is us.
11

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:49:55
A few facts about Tibet you might have overlooked.

#1 The 14th Dalai Lama, like all his predecessors, was the biggest serf-owner. He owned every inch of land and every head of cattle in Tibet and was free to exploit -- even sell off -- his serfs and slaves.

#2 The monks complain of having no religious rights, but the central government has allocated more than 700 million yuan (97 million US dollars) since 1980 to maintain 1,400 monasteries and cultural relics.

#3 Tibet now has more than 1,700 religious sites for Tibetan Buddhism that accommodate 460,000 monks and nuns, four mosques with 3,000 muslims, and a Tibetan Catholic Church for 700 believers.
#4 Latest figures say 100 percent of farmers and herders, who account for more than 80 percent of the Tibetan population, get free medical care.
12

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:56:10
THE BIG LIE

The monks, who claimed to be eyewitnesses to the alleged “killing of more than 100 Tibetans and arrests of more than 1,000”, also complained of having been confined at the temple from March 10 to March 26, while the riots took place on and after March 14.
None of the foreign reporters on the scene seemed to have noticed the contradiction -- that if confined they couldn’t have witnessed what they claimed he had.

THE TOLL
The death toll released from the so called "government in exile" in the northern India hilltop town Dharamsala, has confusing. It varied between 99 and “hundreds” for two weeks before they decided to put it somewhere between 135 and 140 - careful not to mention who had been killed.
In fact at least 18 civilians and one police officer died in Lhasa alone, 623 people were injured. Of those not a single one was Tibetan.


13

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:59:11
WHERE THE WORLD STANDS

Karma Chophel, the “speaker” of the “Tibetan parliament in exile” on Thursday lobbied for support at the United Nations Human Rights Council. Not one of the 47 states that sit on the Council put forward a resolution on the issue, nor was any request made for a special session on Tibet.
* xinhua, AFP



14

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 10:17:52
So all of you who are screaming for "democratic" rights, should ask yourselves how Tibetans would have democratic rights under the Dalai Lama
15

Biker,

Ayr 28/03/2008 10:40:35
Mashimaro. Hey Dude your getting a little heated under the collar there. Now that we have some sort of web address for your paper perhaps we can post our thoughts on your pages.
If China wishes to operate within a 21century global comunity perhaps its time the Chinese brought their record up to date and began addressing the issues brought to them by The UN, Amnesty International, The Witness program and all the rest of the WORLDWIDE human rights organisations.
It only takes a small turn of the worm to remove all the investment from China and move it elsewhere.
Interesting point you make about Robert Mugabe though. As one of Chinas funding oprerations, Zimbabwe is closer to you lot than the rest of the civilised world.
Your comment about not allowing the press to be recieved in Tibet was laughable at best. Asa suposed "newspaper" man you could do better.
16

Pmonkey7,

28/03/2008 10:42:18
More 'facts' from marshmallow.

Where do you get all your 'facts'?

Anyone watching 'A Year in Tibet' on BBC? Gives a great perspective on how people in the area live and work.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b009lvdy.shtml
17

,

28/03/2008 11:14:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Biker,

Ayr 28/03/2008 11:17:29
Mashimaro. Bob Christie asked for a paper in your area where we could post comments. Your a clever little appologist aint you? First of all there is no direct english equivelent and secd I think its a local free sheet full of advertising.
Tell us about "your" paper Mushy. Give us an english equivelent so we can understand your point of view.
Sadly Mashimaro your credibility, much like that of your leaders is gone. I understand the intellectuals within China are now asking the government to conduct talks with the Dali Lama, or have you not yet been informed of that.
Your point number 2 in post 15 is interestingg. All that money to maintain the temples? Are these the same temples the Chinese army destroyed in the 50s?
No one is suggesting that the Dali Lama is the answer to Tibets problems, mearly that China stomping all over them and filling the lands with Han Chinese is not the answer either.
Oh by the way Mashimaro, I understand that the Han Chinese were offered free medical cover simply for moving to the are.
19

Neil,

Glasgow 28/03/2008 11:21:16
I saw that at the end of thios news item on C4 yesterday they did mention that the Chinese media were accusing the west of distortion. They even put up a newspaper showing one of the photos refered to here a couple of days ago as having been cropped to show an individaul proteting, removing the brick throwing mob just behind him. However since it was only on for a second, the newspaper was in chinese & C4 made no attempt to explain exactly what had happened nobody who had not seen it on Youtube would have realised what had happened.
20

,

28/03/2008 11:56:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
21

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:05:21
#Biker:
"Now that we have some sort of web address for your paper perhaps we can post our thoughts on your pages."

It's not my paper but go right ahead.


"If China wishes to operate within a 21century global comunity perhaps its time the Chinese brought their record up to date and began addressing the issues brought to them by The UN, Amnesty International, The Witness program and all the rest of the WORLDWIDE human rights organisations."

Why? China has the support of most countries in this world. Why would we listen to a few old spineless colonialist who can't even protect their own country?

"It only takes a small turn of the worm to remove all the investment from China."

You wish. You people are too full of self interest and too greedy to give up China.

"Interesting point you make about Robert Mugabe though. As one of Chinas funding oprerations, Zimbabwe is closer to you lot than the rest of the civilised world."

You bleeding heart liberals enthroned him. You broke the best government for the country with your whining and carrying on. You did the same thing in South Africa. And guess what... We'll collect there too, thanks ;)

"Your comment about not allowing the press to be recieved in Tibet was laughable at best. Asa suposed "newspaper" man you could do better."

Not really dude, Beijing won't be dictated to by anyone.
22

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:09:36
#23 Not for lack of trying hmm. Turning your guns on the Red Chinese as soon as the bomb was dropped on Japan. Denying Nanjing. Protecting the Taiwan invaders. Paying off Tibetans to die. Keeping Korea apart. Drawing China into conflict all over Asia each time some poor peasants decided to stand up for themselves. It must really stick in your craw that China is so great.
23

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:14:17
#21 Okay I laughed so hard milk came out my nose.

"First of all there is no direct english equivelent and secd I think its a local free sheet full of advertising."

IT'S CHINA DUDE, CATCH A CLUE. DIDN'T YA LEARN PEOPLE IN CHINA SPEAK CHINESE?
24

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:19:50
"Are these the same temples the Chinese army destroyed in the 50s?"

Dude you wouldn't believe the number of temples a despotic leader with absolute and utter power creates. He's got to put the money somewhere as he never put it into trivial stuff like education, food, medical help. I mean gold is just so much better on Buddha's belly than going to feed real people's bellies, right?
25

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 12:27:01
#25 Mashimaro,Red China - "Not for lack of trying" - Yes for the lack of trying; the West did not try hard enough to crush Red scum.
"It must really stick in your craw that China is so great" - At least you do not lack a sense of humour.
www.chinaisevil.com
26

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:42:42

"No one is suggesting that the Dali Lama is the answer to Tibets problems."

Oh, goody at least we agree on something.

", mearly that China stomping all over them and filling the lands with Han Chinese is not the answer either. "
Filling their lands with Han? er, I don't think so. Would you care to give us an ethnic population breakdown there, Biker?

"Oh by the way Mashimaro, I understand that the Han Chinese were offered free medical cover simply for moving to the are."

The free medical cover pertains to ethnic Tibetan herders, awful as Beijing in, it does try to look after its people, even when they try to start civil wars.
I don't know if it applies to Han Chinese, I don't think so because under the government in those days medical cover would have been pretty inexpensive anyway.
OUr government does offer people incentives to move to other places both in and outside of its borders.

It's interesting to note that in 1951 life expectancy in Tibet was 35.5 years. These days it's around 67. Curse those Chinese.

The one-child policy has been applied only to Han living in Tibet, while Tibetans were excluded from such requirement.
27

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:43:55
#28 Sad sad gwei. I hope you've learned how to say Yes Comrade in Putonghua.
28

ldopas,

cheshire 28/03/2008 12:56:04
14 Mashimaro,China 28/03/2008 09:49:55

So what if those negative facts about Tibet are true? Why are you interested, it isnt your country? It belongs to Tibetans.

So what if you think youve somehow helped the care system there? Though Im pretty sure that invasion and oppression arent the only ways to help another ocuntry's health problems. Its not your country.

The plain fact is that you are occupying their country, get out!

It seems strange that you fling Iraq etc at us, and I agree we shouldnt be there, but then conclude illogically that somehow your invasion is justified. Ridiculous, its the same thing.

But the best bits that had me chuckling is you trying to paint China up as some bastion of saithood in the world after its record of blatant human rights violations and undemocratic oppression. Fantastic...not.
29

,

28/03/2008 13:00:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

Mashimaro,

28/03/2008 13:17:05
Niel
I dont know what C4 is... but this has been out for quite a while...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas&NR=1

I wonder how many of these armchair analysts realise what the actual social issues are in Tibet.

1. Tibetans get welfare cheques from the central government.
2. The Han come in and work 80 hour weeks while the Tibetans sit around drinking
3. There is a huge gap between the rich and poor in Tibet
4. If Tibet got independence tomorrow it would not be able to feed itself and would immediately be seeking world aid.
5. That would mean the Americans would get in and trash the poor even further.
6. It would also set the americans up to control China and send its population into disaster.
31

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:21:26
# Idopas

I have constantly admitted China's human rights violations yet not a single person here has been able to show me any evidence that your media did not lie.

Tibet is not a magical mantra. No matter how many times you say it, Tibet is part of China and has been part of China longer than westerners have been in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa. So put your money where your mouth is. Liberate THOSE countries first.
32

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 13:25:40
#30 Mashimaro,Red Cesspit - So there is a chink in your "humour armour", oh dear.
All my comrades are European and over 5 foot tall. I would learn some Putonghua if I was going to the Republic of China, but I don't think they like that insincere Commie "comrade" talk.
33

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:27:19
#34 Bob, you show me one piece of evidence that your media did not lie about there being a "crackdown" in Tibet.
34

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 13:31:28
#37 Mashimaro,China - "Tibet is part of China and has been part of China longer than westerners have been in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa" - Hand it over to the Republic of China then.
35

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:33:38
#30 Over 5 ft? only? And I always thought westerners were tall. Tell me have you seen Yao Ming recently?
I thought you sensitive brits didnt like racist words like "chink"
Hey, tell you what, your dick is bigger probably than mine.
Feel good?
We still own Tibet and your media still lied.
36

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 13:44:57
#41 Mashimaro,China - Well over 5 ft. I am quite short at 189cm not quite tall enough for a basketball player.
"I thought you sensitive brits didnt like racist words like "chink"" - All a matter of context; nothing racist about "chink in your "humour armour"" so perhaps you are over-sensitive.
"Hey, tell you what, your dick is bigger probably than mine" - if you say so. I do hope this hasn't added to your inferiority complex.
"We still own Tibet and your media still lied" - Your blood-soaked country occupies Tibet (just as your fellow Reds from the Soviet Union occupied most of Eastern Europe before they collapsed. One down, one to go) and your Media always lies.
37

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:48:14
"Baha Mousa, 26, suffered 93 injuries after being taken into custody and tortured as UK troops sought information about weapons and suspected bomb-making equipment in Basra in 2003.

The incident resulted in seven soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes and one being jailed for a year after admitting "conditioning" Mr Mousa by beating him after he failed to remain in a tortuous position during detention."


tsk tsk tsk
38

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 14:04:11
#43 Mashimaro,Blood-soaked Commie China -

"A Reassessment of How Many Died In the Military Crackdown in Beijing
"The true number of deaths will probably never be known, and it is possible that thousands of people were killed without leaving evidence behind. But based on the evidence that is now available, it seems plausible that about a dozen soldiers and policemen were killed, along with 400 to 800 civilians.
Some of the early estimates of thousands of deaths, including the American estimate, were based on reports that the Chinese Red Cross had counted 2,600 deaths. But the Chinese Red Cross has denied saying any such thing, and this seems to have been an offshoot of two other rumors that variously used the figure of 2,600 to describe the number of students who were missing and the number of students who were killed. 'We'll Never Know for Sure'"

Tut, tut.....maybe you can tell me how many soldiers from the sweet and kindly People's Liberation Army were prosecuted for these atrocities?
39

Neil,

Glasgow 28/03/2008 14:05:06
The problem with all this a\nti-Chinese stuff is that it is impossible for anybody, ho has not spent at least 1,000 times as long criticising the racist war criminals running Britain for the at least 1000 times worse acts of deliberate genocide & ethnic cleansing in Kosovo & Krajina, to claim to be motivated by any concern for human rights.

Perhaps James, Cankers, Ideopas, Biker etc would care to provide the links to show that they have done so.
40

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 14:11:12
James... This crackdown, this one... try to focus now.

"Baha Mousa, 26, suffered 93 injuries after being taken into custody and tortured as UK troops sought information about weapons and suspected bomb-making equipment in Basra in 2003.

"The incident resulted in seven soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes and one being jailed for a year after admitting "conditioning" Mr Mousa by beating him after he failed to remain in a tortuous position during detention."

Hey James, can you explain me what a torturous position is?
41

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 14:41:06
Damn the room cleared fast.
42

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 14:48:25
#45 Neil,Glasgow - When the subject of the article is the history of atrocities in the Balkans (for which the Serbs have the responsibility for a high pertentage) then it would be appropriate to comment on this. It is not, hence the lack of comments. If you have a short memory, then you can look over previous threads on Kosovo etc.... to see my views on this.
43

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 14:54:27
#46 Mashimaro, Red China - is that the whiff of avoidance? More like the stench. Baha Mousa died in British custody and the MOD has admitted responsibility. The culprits have been brought before a court and Mousa's will receive compensation for their loss.
Contrast this with the murderous rampage of the PLA in 1989 - no punishment just back to barracks for tea and medals.
44

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 15:27:10
But... your country doesn't torture. You government doesn't beat people to death. Give me brea.
i'm still waitin for the shred of evidence that there was acrackdown this time.
45

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 28/03/2008 15:38:28
Mashimaro,
Sorry I couldn't join you tonight in trying to set the rest of them straight, I have just come home from work. I see you are carrying the fight to them fine by yourself, and holding your head up high. Too bad all your efforts and hard work only are believed by a few, the intelligent ones, the rest seem to have easy access to illegal street drugs, and know how to use them and obviously do use them. They don't believe because they don't want to, it really is sad.
46

Dáithí,

San Jose 28/03/2008 16:10:47
#1 thru 50, Mashimaro

Thank you for your posts!

As I've commented before, it is such a pleasure to see a true, unabashed communist using the same propaganda techniques that the anti-US/UK/Israel/Jew/Bush crowd use daily, and have them pushed back in their faces in a much more skillful fashion.

When they claim that we should not intervene in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan or Darfur and demand 'let the people work it out for themselves' or 'it's up to them what kind of government they have', it's fun to see how they now DON'T feel that way about China!

It's going to be a long, interesting summer - we can expect China to be leading the headlines on a daily basis until after the Olympics.

Keep it up! ;)
47

57Nomad,

california 28/03/2008 16:41:11
#24 Mashy

Mashy said:

"Not really dude, Beijing won't be dictated to by anyone."

You got that right, Mashy, my man. NOBODY is gonna be dictating to China because the Chinese Communist Party has already got the irrevocable franchise on doing the dictating in China.
48

57Nomad,

california 28/03/2008 17:04:32
#30 Mash

mash said:

"#28 Sad sad gwei."

That's real nice. The enlightened Mr. Mash here addressed Mr. Donald as gwei. Gwei or gweilo is the racist term that Chinese use to refer to white men. The word means ghost or spook. A Chinese calling a white man gwei or gweilo is the exact equivalent of calling a black man a ni***r.
49

Biker,

Ayr 28/03/2008 17:22:52
The whiff of avoidance is surely in the air again Mashimaro changing the facts to suit himself. Free medical aid was inded given to all Han Chinese who made the transition to Tibet, check your facts. As for the Han Chinese themselves, they did indeed inhabit Tibet all the way from the invasion. As this is a matter of UN documentation, who the hell do you think you are kidding?
Neil you make a fair comment at #45, but as I have constantly said, I have no problems with Chinese themselves. Just as I have no problems with Americans. Its merely their governments who p#ss me off.
Human Rights are Human Rights no matter where in the world you are and frankly nationality or skin colour make no odds to me. So your comment about anti Chinese is a little dissengenuous.
I personally have made comments on many issues on this site, many of which are HR issues and I am aware of the other two doing the same.
Mashimaro, are you going to let us know which paper you work for? Let us see you side of the truth. Yes I see they are Chinese but I did ask for english versions which you seem to have ignored. More obfuscations and smokescreen? As for milk down your nose, is that some sort of perversion?
50

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA....Bye Bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil lead 28/03/2008 17:54:15
56
Biker,
Ayr 28/03/2008
u wrote;
As for milk down your nose, is that some sort of perversion?
-----------------------------------------------


I don't think so dude.

If a person eats Jalapenos (common to mexican food), and for some strange reason got it in their nose.

"try to consume a dairy product, like milk, yogurt, or ice cream.
Dairy products contain a chemical called caisen, that combats the effects of chile peppers' capsicum, by stripping it from its receptor site on the skin.

Milk tends to reduce the burning effect of that pepper.

GC

51

Neil,

Glasgow 28/03/2008 18:12:46
James you have indeed commented on the Yugoslav wars, though only to blame the victims, as indeed you just did today. You have never produced evidence for the Serbs being the prime culprits, though a glance at the previous & current demographic map shows it is untrue. You have certainly been infinitely more willing to make excuses for the Nazis than for the Chinese.

The basic point is that, even if our media were in this case reporting entirely truthfully, as they most definitely did not over Yugoslavia & thus if in this particular case the "goodies" & "baddies" line up as they reported our government & its supporters would STILL not have a right to claim moral superiority over China's.
52

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 18:51:50
Dudes,
Tibet's India-based government-in-exile says more than 100 people have died in the recent clashes between protesters and Chinese authorities in and around Tibet. Beijing disputes that claim, saying the numbers are much lower. Chinese officials have sharply criticized international coverage of the riots, calling it biased. Stephanie Ho, VOA correspondent in Beijing, says the situation in Tibet is viewed very differently in the Chinese media.
“The Chinese media have been playing this strictly as a bunch of Tibetan hooligans who have decided to smash windows and loot and pillage and kill Chinese people. So the Chinese public is very unhappy with Western media coverage,” says Ho. “The Voice of America office here has been getting tons of phone calls from people complaining about media coverage outside China, saying they don't understand why everybody else is getting it wrong. The problem is that the information coming out of Lhasa is sketchy, so what we're left with is the Chinese official version of events and rumors and cell phone images. We don't know what the real story is.”
It's hard to know the real story because China has prevented independent coverage by barring foreign correspondents from freely traveling to Tibet and neighboring provinces where the unrest has spread. Moreover, the government in Beijing has begun a propaganda campaign to persuade the public that the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled leader, instigated the violence on March 14 and that China is the victim of separatist, terrorist activity. But Stephanie Ho says the protests have been caused by multiple factors - religious, cultural and economic: “There is a lot of resentment among Tibetans in Tibet with the fact that they're sort of being left behind. The Chinese government has spent lots of money in Tibet trying to build it up, but it has mostly been Han Chinese who have benefited. So Tibetans are resentful. They feel there has not been adequate respect for their religion. The Dalai
53

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 18:54:15
#59 contd:
Dudes;
is the holiest figure in Tibetan Buddhism, and he keeps getting roundly vilified by the Chinese government.”
Contrary to Beijing's characterization, the Dalai Lama is widely viewed as a moderate - a man who shuns violence and who has for years attempted to meet the Chinese halfway. Western governments, including Washington, are urging Chinese officials to meet with the Dalai Lama to reach some modicum of understanding. But many regional observers say the international community has not put sufficient pressure on Beijing for their harsh tactics against the Tibetan protesters.
Indian journalist Jehangir Pocha, editor of the New Delhi-based news magazine Business World, explains that foreign governments like the United States and India are conflicted: “Speaking in entirely humanitarian terms, what you have is a very difficult situation. If you get tough with the Communist Party, you risk endangering the stability of a country of 1.2 billion people. At the same time, you can't wash away the concerns of the indigenous Tibetan people.”
Bhuchung Tsering, vice president of the International Campaign for Tibet, was born in Tibet, grew up in India, and now lives in Washington. He says the Tibetan people were actually forced to launch their recent demonstrations in Lhasa: “The Chinese government's policies have failed to recognize and respect the distinct identity of the Tibetan people and to provide a space to preserve and promote that distinct heritage. Beneath that are many factors, which have led the Tibetan people to feel they are being increasingly marginalized. And the immediate spark from my perspective would be the Chinese government's continued denunciation of the Dalai Lama.”
Jehangir Pocha notes that the Dalai Lama, through his intermediaries, has actually been in talks with the Chinese government for a number of years. But the Tibetan government-in-exile, which is headquartered in Dharmsala in northern India, does not believe Be
54

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 18:56:41
#59 contd:

Dudes,
Beijing has entered these talks in good faith. Besides that, Mr. Pocha says, the really tough problem goes far beyond the issue of Tibetan autonomy.
“The key issue between Beijing and the Tibetans is the definition of Tibet. The Chinese define Tibet merely as the province they call the Tibetan Autonomous Region, or TAR. The Tibetans define Tibet as the province of TAR plus Tibetan areas of other Chinese provinces such as Qinghai, Gansu, and Sichuan, and that is really the issue holding up the negotiations. This is not very well understood. And no one seems to have a solution to that issue.”
Bhuchung Tsering observes that contact between the Chinese leadership and representatives of the Dalai Lama was reestablished in 2002, and there have been six rounds of private talks since then, all of them unsatisfactory. So Tibetans are skeptical. Within the Tibetan movement in exile, Bhuchung Tsering says, some people are now calling for a boycott of the 2008 Olympic games, which are scheduled to be held this summer in Beijing.
Some Western critics also argue that their governments may have to resort to such a threat, or at least a boycott of the Olympics' Opening Ceremony, if the behind-the-scenes approach to pressuring Beijing fails. For now, President Bush has said he plans to be in Beijing this summer for the opening ceremony. For International Press Club, I'm Judith Latham.


GC
55

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 19:43:08
#58 Neil,Glasgow - "James you have indeed commented on the Yugoslav wars, though only to blame the victims, as indeed you just did today" - Rubbish. Serbs were/are as much perpetrators of atrocity as victims yet you refuse to acknowledge this.
"You have never produced evidence for the Serbs being the prime culprits" - Again rubbish. I advised you to read a few books (Slovenia 1945 - Memories of Death and Survival after World War II by John Corsellis being a point in case) that showed how some Serbs excelled in the field of atrocity but all you managed was a feeble accusation of having Googled these titles. Fact is YOU are happy to excuse Serbian atrocities whilst condemning those of others.
This thread is about Tibet; save you bizarre (cheerleading for Karadzic) comments for the appropriate thread:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/world/Karadzic39s-family-homes-raided.3923781.jp
56

,

28/03/2008 19:51:38
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57

,

29/03/2008 00:06:35
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Reason:
58

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 00:29:15
#52

Thanks for your support. At least a few people on here "get it" that this whole Tibet thing is mostly a huge spin by the western goverments in their attempts to smash communism - yet again. They don't care that they will bring suffering to millions, that Tibet will be poverty stricken, that it can't even feed its own people and never will be able to feed its own people, and that they will once again, return a despot to the throne - hey it will be Zimbabwe all over again but who cares about that.
59

,

29/03/2008 00:32:04
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Reason:
60

Mashimaro,

29/03/2008 00:34:55
#57 You got that right. It dictates to all Chinese, not just the ethnic Tibetans. It crushes rebellion of any Chinese, it stops cult religions all over China, not just Tibet. In fact it is harder on Han Chinese than any other of the 56 ethnic groups that make up China. So forgive me, once again, if I don't start weeping and wailing about a few superstitious men in robes.
61

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 00:42:06
#54

Gwei is an affectionate name for white,a shortening of gwei lo, which means white devil. It's an affectionate term, often said in english too, like "the sad gwei at the dai" for those of your countrymen who spend all their time at a dai pai dong. It is not considered racist, smelly hairy dogs is the one that is racist. Or hairy cavemen is pretty racist, as would be fei dai gwei big fat whites. And there are plenty of others, involving barbarians, neanderthals and oddly enough, noses and other bodily parts which I'm too polite to mention. So delay no more and go learn some chinese, you'll need to to greet your masters.
62

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 01:04:42
#55
"You have still not provided the information you were asked for at #33."

Dude, you haven't provided the information I've been asking for since I stumbled on this site. Give me proof of the recent alleged crackdown in Tibet. That is all I want.

63

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 02:33:34
Mashimaro,
I don't know if the Galactic Cannibal has apologized for his racist statement or not, I have been busy working. If he has not apologized, then by all means discredit everything he says, for it will mean that he has effectively taken himself out of the running. Racist people don't care about human rights, just about being heard and seeing their names in print. If indeed he has apologized, then at least I will continue to look at his comments with an open mind.
64

57Nomad,

california 29/03/2008 05:43:40
#68 Mash

you are lying through your commie teeth. the terms gwei and gweilo are out and out racist remarks and you know it. If 'spooks' or 'ghosts' are 'affectionate' names for white men, then 'slants' or 'chinks' are affectionate names for chinese. got it, charley chan? don't you have a rice paddy to attend to? by the way, would you mind keeping your continuing plagues of influenza and SARS confined within your own borders?

As to the notion of china never sending its army to invade other countries, its blatant invasion of tibet notwithstanding, on February 17th of 1978, China invaded Vietnam with over 80,000 soldiers and hundreds of tanks. So, spare us the 'China never invaded anybody' refrain, it's not true.

The Chinese are reticent to sent troops abroad but not because they are peace loving. The reason is that the PLA's main function is not to guard against foreign invasion, who the hell wants to invade the flu capital of the universe, but to keep its own citizens intimidated and enthralled, e.g., Tienanmen Square. There are over fifty thousand riots a year in China and every soldier in the PLA is needed for the chinese communist government to keep control of the chinese people.
65

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 05:49:34
#56 As I said I don't really know how many Han are in Tibet. It's an aribitrary arguement anyway as Tibet is a province of China. The whole Tibet argument is really arbitrary because Tibetans are treated better than most other Chinese as they are considered a minority group.

"Human Rights are Human Rights no matter where in the world you are and frankly nationality or skin colour make no odds to me. So your comment about anti Chinese is a little dissengenuous."

Now this personally p*sses me off. How absolutely arrogant can you be? Who are YOU to decide what are and what are not human rights? Who gives YOU the right to impose your idiotic ideas on other people? Why don't you take care of your own society that is so weakened it can't even keep its Christmas traditions alive. You must realise that something is really wrong when people can't keep a piggy bank on their desk at work.
YOUR human rights would have the judiciary allow killers, rapists and child molesters walk freely among your people. Your government should be protecting your people, instead it's so busy bowing down to other nations you've lost your identity, you've lost your power and your people have become lazy and fat.
Your Human Rights whiners put people like Mugabe into power. We should listen to you? are you crazy?
I know it's a really strange concept to you but we put more stock in being able to feed our people, being able to give them water, education and medical services. Your "Human rights" efforts will take that away from them. How can it be "human rights" to let a child starve to death? HOW?

"Mashimaro, are you going to let us know which paper you work for?"

What part of "no" are you having trouble understanding? Maybe you need to get some real education.

"As for milk down your nose, is that some sort of perversion? " What, you've never laughed while drinking milk?
66

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:04:28
"Perhaps your newly arrived fellow apologist for the despotic pariah regime in China can provide us with it?

Or is it just the case that the odious government of mainland China just does not understand what the word freedom actually means?"

I swear you're reading this stuff out of some freaky '60s book. Regime, Odious, Pariah, Apologist... I mean this is good stuff, where are you getting it all? It's like retro debate. Here are a few more terms you might like to add to your vocab just to give us some variation: lickspittle, lackeys, apparatchik, warmongering (that's always good), winds of change in the corridors of power - that sort of stuff. I feel you've got a promising future in writing retro trash talk for wannabe revolutionaries, but you still need a bit of guidance and creativity. I'll give you 6 out of 10 for your last effort.
67

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 06:11:07
By going back over the last few day's postings, I seethat the Galactic Cannibal has indeed NOT apologized for his racist statement "two whites don't make a wong", so his comments and remarks have lost all credibility.
Mashimaro,
These anti China people, and there seem to be many, have no interest in human rights, if they did, they would have kicked there own governments out of power. So much for their right to vote. Blair rode it out 'til he was ready to leave, Bush will do the same, and all of their elected officials will continue to abuse their power, unchecked. We seem to be wasting our time with them, but it seems we are both dedicated enough to continue to expose the truth, whether most of this audience is too brainwashed to see the real facts, facts that come from the people of China. One day they will see the truth, but it will be too late for them, as for now the western brainwashing has been a complete success. When they wake up, there will be nobody left to help them.
One more thing,
Yes, they really stash their parents and grandparents into "old folk" homes in the west, but they like to call them retirement homes. Still the bloody same thing though, and many unspeakable crimes are committed against the elderly within the walls of those institutions, and nobody in the west will deny that.
68

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:17:41
#57 Nomad

Dude you have me confused with somone else. I don't believe I've said China has never invaded another country because that's just not true. China has been at war ever since it can remember, the Xia, the Mongols the Tibetans, the Chin, it's never ending. Hence that huge farking wall across Asia. So I'm sure that sometime during that time the Middle Kingdom invaded someone.
And of course you are quite right. We did invade Vietnam for uhhh 29 days I think. How does that gel with the UK invasion of Iraq? or the UK invasion of Afghanistan?
Personally I don't mind you dudes mucking around in Afghanistan, it certainly needed mucking around with. Pity you screwed it up so badly first time around hmm? Should have just let the Russkis have it. They would have sorted those guys right quick. But no, you guys had to interfere and leave it in a complete mess where the Taleban could come to power. And...wel... we all know how that turned out.
Now you've got Afghanistan the sequal in Iraq. You dudes just never farking learn do you?
And you still want to meddle in China's affairs.
69

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 06:27:59
#56 Biker,Ayr 28/03/2008 - "The whiff of avoidance is surely in the air again Mashimaro changing the facts to suit himself" - Not a whiff but a stench. Here is an interesting report on unrest outwith what the Red Chinese consider Tibet entitled "Tibet's unsettled borders :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7304825.stm

See also:

China and Tibet
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299221.stm

and:

"Tibetans describe continuing unrest"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7300312.stm

and:

"Lhasa eyewitness: 'City in cinders'"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299642.stm

70

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:30:36
Let's just recap here...

""Baha Mousa, 26, suffered 93 injuries after being taken into custody and tortured as UK troops sought information about weapons and suspected bomb-making equipment in Basra in 2003.

"The incident resulted in seven soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes and one being jailed for a year after admitting "conditioning" Mr Mousa by beating him after he failed to remain in a tortuous position during detention."

so the UK employs torture - surprise surprise. Mr Mousa was beaten to condition him after he failed to remain in a torturous position.
Gee, troll, I hope he wasn't forced to "squad" as you insiste on calling it.
Now whoever did this didn't act alone. And must have believed that what he was doing was okay with his superiors. So was everyone arrested and held accountable for his travesty of human rights?
Did they have a warrant for this guy's arrest or was he just snatched as normal? Did he appear in court? Doubtful.
Wow, so the UK grabs people off the streets, tortures them and unfortunately this one died. hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Then there's the little matter of RENDITION.
Some Americans are after Bush for lying about Iraq. I don't know of anyoone going after Blair for his part in the whoppers. But how about the lie he told when he said the UK had nothing to do with Rendition.
For those who don't know, rendition means snatching people out of various sovreign countries, putting them on planes, sending them to a country that doesn't mind torture - like Egypt - torturing them - eletric shocks, sexual abuse, drugs, beatings, threats of rape by dogs, that sort of human rights stuff - and then they put them in Gitmo for more abuse, where if they choose to go on a hunger strike "doctors" force pipes up their noses while others hold them down. This practice is in itself a form of torture and against doctor's oaths in many countries of not to take part in torture. It is also against the principal of people being able to refuse medical treat
71

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:35:05
This practice is in itself a form of torture and against doctor's oaths in many countries of not to take part in torture. It is also against the principal of people being able to refuse medical treatment.
Wow, so the UK doesn't mind people just being "taken away", sent to another country, tortured by electric shock, sexual abuse, beating and sex with dogs, then moved into a prison without any form of trial or even contact with their family or lawyer - in fact no one knows where they are - and while they are in this UK supported prison they are tortured again... hmmmmmm
I guess I'm failing to see the moral high-ground here.
Are you sure the UK is not being run by the Chinese?
72

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:53:40
James, thanks for your hard work. Much appreciated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7304825.stm

I'm not really sure of the point of this posting unless it is to confirm that Tibet was renegad for a few decades - during which it wasn't recognised as such - and then was taken back by China. We all knew that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299221.stm

Again not really sure about the point of this one. You'll notice the journalist very carefully doesn't mention the ethnicity of the dead, or any sense of crackdown, just a heavy military presence - which we all know about.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7300312.stm
this isn't too bad, it's up to date at least and has bothered to contact someone there. However what this dude describes is the Tibetans running amok. The rest is heresay. Still he doesn't mention a crackdown at the time your journalists were screaming CRACKDOWN. What he does mention is security forces actively securing a mob that's burning and destroying.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299642.stm
"As the unrest broke out the demonstrators were simply being contained by the police. The protest seemed organised initially but it quickly turned into an unruly mob ethic which targeted Chinese people and businesses."

Yes, that about sums it up. The Tibetans went crazy, they burned the city (stoned and murdered a few people too), the police did their best to contain them and move people to safety. Darn those Chinese, they're so brutal.

thanks again for trying. I appreciate it. As you can see from these reports there was no brutality by the government forces.







73

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 07:01:24
@ Postmark

"One more thing,
Yes, they really stash their parents and grandparents into "old folk" homes in the west, but they like to call them retirement homes. Still the bloody same thing though, and many unspeakable crimes are committed against the elderly within the walls of those institutions, and nobody in the west will deny that. "

That is disgusting! Do people cease to have rights when they are old? What sort of society does not take care of its elderly? That is truly barbarian, like those Eskimos who send their old folk out into the snow to die. If you have no respect for your past you have no respect for yourself or for your future. No wonder their society is in so much trouble. If there is no wisdom from the elderly how will the young learn?
I thought it was a tennet of Christianity - honor thy father and thy mother. What happened to that?
Who rubs your granny's feet when she is sick? Did she not rub yours when you were sick?
Throwing away your old people is despicable. No, it's beyond despicable that you cannot find the time to respect the people who made you and have given you all you are today.
74

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 07:14:47
and last but not least...

Nomad

"The Chinese are reticent to sent troops abroad but not because they are peace loving. The reason is that the PLA's main function is not to guard against foreign invasion, who the hell wants to invade the flu capital of the universe, but to keep its own citizens intimidated and enthralled"

We have in fact sent our first peacekeeping troops abroad. It is not the Chinese way to take sides in squabbles or interfere with leaders and governments. We do business no matter who is in charge. And we admit it. Because we do business the people of those countries gain.
I'm not surprised you would again spread misinformation about our PLA. Again, it shows you know nothing about China.
Firstly because we have such good relations with our neighbours they are hardly likely to invade us.
Secondly the PLA is not so much a military army as a People's Army as their title suggests. They help people out in times for crisis, such as the recent snow storms that caused so much havoc and damage. It is the PLA who went out to clear the snow and rescue people, deliver relief packages, that sort of stuff.
Thirdly it will be the PLA that will build the sand walls to try to contain the summer floods and save millions of lives. They do this every year.
Fourth if you think the PLA can remain in Lhasa indefinitely you're again very mistaken. The PLA garrison in Tibet comprises by the vast majority, ethnic Tibetans. Lowlanders are not able to survive well in the harsh conditions as they are physically not adapted to do this.
75

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 07:26:57
#77 Mashimaro,Red China - "Let's just recap here..." - No let's not bother; let's stick to the subject of the article. There are plenty stories on Iraq for you to comment on and besides, those who Baha Mousa have been punished and the MOD has admitted liability. Any PLA soldier been prosecuted for 1989 killings?
Moral high ground? This from someone defending a country that executes more of its own citizens every year than the rest of the world put together.
76

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 07:39:14
#79 Mashimaro,Red China - Not for your benefit Luke, so if you are not sure about this or that then tough.
What next from you? Are you going to enlighten us decadent Westerners that Mao Zedong was really a nice guy and that thousands did not die during the Cultural Revolution?
77

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 07:46:19
Mashimaro,
Unfortunately, Christianity is just another name, a way of controlling people, just like Democracy is. Christianity guilts people out of money, so that they can get a seat on the bus that will take them to heaven. Quite the farce eh? But millions fall for it all the time, eventhough the truth about it has been exposed so many times. My own parents were victims of that, and blindly followed the church until they died last year, and left their money to the church, of which not even one member attended their funerals. Nice bunch of hypocrites those Christians are eh? Take a look at the Catholics, with their vows of celebacy, anything that demented will surely draw out the perverted, and that it has. That is why the priests in their organization, a good many of them anyways, are perverted child molesters preying on defenseless little boys. Again, nice bunch of Hypocrites eh? And since the west is run and controlled by some form of Christianity, or religion in general, you can see what we are up against with the majority of respondents in this comment section. They have been totally and completely brainwashed, much like the suicide bombers of the Middle East have been brainwashed.
78

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 07:47:45
#77 Oh so when it's the UK we'll "not bother" but we'll pound on China for something that happened almost 2 decades ago.
What you don't seem to acknowledge is that this is POLICY on the UK side. The only problem they faced was when the dude died. Up until then and probably still, rendition, kidnapping and torture are UK policy.
As you well know, China's execution rate per capita is 14th in the world, way behind Singapore and Taiwan. Go argue with them before you come to us.
79

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 07:59:04
Hey Postmark, that's any religion you're talking about. Same thing happened in Buddhism. Take a look at the huge fall in population since the Buddhists came into power in Tibet.
However the point I wanted to make is that these are the principles on which people shout Human Rights. The tennets of Christianity were the very foundations of a strong and great society. Yet the UK and Europe and to a lesser degree America and Canada have given so many of these tennets away to other societies that their own society is under threat. Take the case of that Imam Abdul Mukin Khalisadar. He is an outsider come into British society who commits a brutal rape as part of HIS society. Then he gets a few years in a comfy jail and he's free again. What is that? That is being a traitor to your people. That says it is okay to do this to British people because the British government will make sure nothing bad happens to you, and when you are done being a guest of the British taxpayers, you're free to do it all again.
The one thing John Howard did that I really agreed with was to tell foreigners - you live our way or leave.
Fact is we are not all the sane. We are fundamentally different and I like that idea. I don't want to be British or American or Canadia. I don't want to eat MacDonalds - give me some soy duck intestine any day. I don't want to see Starbucks at the Great Wall or KFC outside the terracotta wariors. (okay now I'm heading off into the wild, but you get the idea). We will govern our people our way and preserve our society.
80

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 07:59:36
"we're not all the sane" ha ha ha. Too tired la
81

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 08:02:33
#85 Mashimaro,China - % year 20 year what's the difference? I am not an apologist for the UK government (in any case, the article is not about UK policy in Iraq and the Scotsman is not a Government newspaper) in the way that you are an apologist for your own rancid one-party dictatorship.
"This from someone defending a country that executes more of its own citizens every year than the rest of the world put together" - This is a factual statement; I did not mention anything about "per capita" and some capital crimes in Communist China do not attract the same punishment elsewhere.
"Go argue with them before you come to us" - I'll decide, Luke. I don't take orders from Reds.
82

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 08:15:39
James Donald,
The point I made to Mashimaro is that the west is laden with problems, countless cases of human rights abuses, and no-one from China is interfering and pointing fingers at your collective countries and their governments to clean it up, or else. As I have stated in so many of my previous comments, China is doing what it has to do, its obligation, to protect its innocent victims from an out of control mob that indiscriminately burned and killed what and who got in its way. But the point is, we keep it within our borders, and not all over the world as the USA and the UK are guilty of, right now. So please get and keep your house in order, before you start on China. We have looked after our own for 5000 plus years, we will continue to do so. Things can't be that bad now can they, when we have a population of 1.3 billion strong. We must be doing something right.
83

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 08:32:08
See Morecombe and Wise were busy last night..

You see the thing about 'Old folks homes'..you'll find a lot of elderly in them who have no family, or their family are unable to cope...

Now the thing with your Chinese Orphanages..

Stuffed with baby girls..who have been dumped... in the street...in bins... in the gutter... those that have escaped having their throats cut or being aborted....

Very honourable...very noble Chinese way to treat human life.. us Wester devils are most impressed with you beating your breast over noble Chinese society that cares for and cherishes its children... why is'nt there a 'granny' to rub these little girl's feet?...why has mummy, daddy and granny dumped their precious little darling in a bin for babies?

Very honourable Chinese way...

"If you have no respect for your past you have no respect for yourself or your future"

You're having a laugh mate..

the children are the future...
84

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 08:33:23
Wheyhey...the propoganda machine has cranked up...
85

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 08:51:55
#89 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - The "West" does have many problems (the West is not a single country by the way) but the subject of the article is about Tibet. There are plenty other stories where people can (and do) comment on the "Wests' problems".
"So please get and keep your house in order, before you start on China" - this is a comments page in a Scottish newspaper where people are free to post as they see fit (even Communist propagandists).
If you see size of population as "doing something right" then India must be a fabulous place (even the Dalai Lama chooses to live there rather than in a Red prison cell). However, I think even India has its share of problems.
86

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 08:52:19
Horrible Cankers, may I point out that I lived in the west for 47 and a half years, was born and raised there, am all to familiar with what goes on there, so don't try to put the spin on the "old folks" homes. Sure there are some cases of what you pointed out about the elderly, but where is your government when the elderly need help? In any case, by far the majority are there because the family values are quickly eroding in the west, and only a fool will deny that. Look at all the crimes within your country, done by snot-nosed disrespecting punks, who were raised in a one parent society, without the love from two parents, and who have been dumped into daycare at a very young age. Again, deny that, and you are a fool. Remember once again, I am from the west, I know what I'm talking about, having lived there for all those years. Now I live in China,have for two and a half years, so I can see what is happening here, while you just comment on things you know nothing about. Clean up your problems, we will deal with ours. Keep your fight at home, that's what we do.
87

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 09:04:45
James Donald,
Open your eyes, if your government will let you, and read my comment in post #89 again. I clearly stated your collective countries and their governments, yet you try to correct me by pointing out that the west is not a single country. Its becoming so clear why the lot of you are so easily brainwashed, even when clearly written or printed, you read something else into it. Hopeless, the works of you. Again. keep your nose out of our affairs, we will stay out of yours. The Dalai Lama lives in India because he's a coward, not a leader. He should have stayed with his ship when it took on water, but no, he jumped and ran. Nice leader. Try to deny that, and it will make you out as a real liar, not just a brainwashed pawn that you clearly are.
88

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 09:07:31
#93 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "I am from the west, I know what I'm talking about, having lived there for all those years. Now I live in China,have for two and a half years, so I can see what is happening here" - You must be busy then, as China is a big place (takes me all my time to know what is happening in my local area never mind the rest of Scotland). So you have deserted the West to become a "Red Quisling" like the odious Dragonhead.
89

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 09:08:45
#94 postmark54,Chongqing, China - Showing your true colours now eh. Brainwashed, ha...
90

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 09:13:31
88 "This from someone defending a country that executes more of its own citizens every year than the rest of the world put together" - This is a factual statement; I did not mention anything about "per capita" and some capital crimes in Communist China do not attract the same punishment elsewhere."
As China has actually got the largest population in the world I would say this to you... DUH!
You're right, some of the crimes in China do not attract the same punishment elsewhere. We don't let child molesters out among our citizens to hurt children again.
You Jimmy D, have no leg on which to stand.
91

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 09:23:02
James Donald,
I came to China by invitation, fell in love with the country and its people, and will live out my life here, for this is truly a great country.
I don't have to be busy to find out what is happening, I stay in touch with a lot of my Chinese friends, Tibetans as well, and they keep me informed. My job is of the nature of keeping me informed as well. Believe me, this place has got the west beat in every way, that includes my home country of Canada, a pretty nice place. I also keep both my ears and eyes open, and do think for myself, so I can give you my clear and unbiased opinion. Having come from the west, I too was exposed to all the lies being told about China, but being a self thinker, I took those stories with a grain of salt. Anyways, if it makes you feel good to call me a deserter, knock yourself out, I am old and big enough to take it on the chin, and if it makes you feel good to condemn China, go ahead, your opinion will never be heard here anyways, and nobody really cares. Dragonhead by the way, also is a clear and independent thinker, something of which you are obviously jealous.
92

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 09:32:20
James Donald,
Browsing through the Scotsman, it is obvious that your country of Scotland has far too many problems of its own, yet you keep commenting on ours. I don't comment on the many problems you have over there in the comments section of the Scotsman, because frankly, your problems are yours, and ours are ours. Like I said far too many times, you worry about your problems and we will worry about ours. Can I make it any clearer than that. And yes, you are brainwashed, and don't listen too well.
93

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 09:44:13
James Donald,
Mashimaro is far more informed than you are, especially when it comes to Chinese affairs, so it would be wise for you to sit up and take notice when he points things out to you. His line of work also exposes him to many things all around the globe, so don't show any disrespect to somebdy far better informed than you. Your sources are from a biased western media and government, who hate Communists and Communism. Mashimaro gives you a true respective, but having never been told the truth to you in the west, you don't recognize it when it jumps up and bites you on the nose. Poor fool you are. My heart does go out to you, for you really aren't free to think for yourself. Can you say brainwashed? Didn't think so!
94

,

29/03/2008 15:01:05
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95

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 15:49:53
Gotcha...
96

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 15:54:01
100..."Mashimaro gives you a true perspective"....

If you are 5 years old and button up the back...

How's the Panchen Lama today...the 'China Daily' mistakenly print any 'quotes' from him then?
97

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 16:10:19
It's interesting to note the revisionist reporting by your media.
98

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 16:25:52
.....and the propoganda preaching from yours....
99

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 16:31:42
Really? What have you been reading lately?
100

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 16:41:29
You should know mate....you probably wrote it!
101

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 16:49:51
yeah, right. You're just a dog biting the wind.
102

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 17:16:58
#97 Mashimaro,Red China - "We don't let child molesters out among our citizens to hurt children again" - Nor the tax evaders to avoid paying tax again I suppose. Point is no countries in the EU execute prisoners whereas your despotic regime (in common with all Communist regimes) has always executed people on a grand scale. Duh! So Luke you are the one living in a one party dictatorship - if this means I have no leg to stand on, then I am happy to sit and show you my contempt.
103

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 17:22:22
#99 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "your opinion will never be heard here anyways, and nobody really cares" - just as nobody in the West really give a damn what a red Quisling thinks; Canada is better off wiothout you.
If you think the trumpet-blowing egoist Dragonhead is a "clear and independent thinker", you must add idiocy to you list of talents.
104

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 17:25:41
#99 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "Can I make it any clearer than that. And yes, you are brainwashed, and don't listen too well" - and apparentkly you are hard of understanding. I will post my opinion as I see fit and don't take orders from lick-spittle Communist collabarators. Do you get me now, sweetie?
105

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 17:31:09
Arf Arf, Mushy baby...and you are probably a second rate frustrated journalist who takes the CCP coin to salve his guilt....never mind...maybe some day you will be free and will be able to make a true and fair statement..

Arf Arf...
106

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 17:33:44
#100 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "Mashimaro is far more informed than you are, especially when it comes to Chinese affairs" - Very possibly yet he chooses to be a mouthpiece for an odious regime which is vilified by most actual "free thinkers".
"Your sources are from a biased western media and government, who hate Communists and Communism" - You have no idea what my sources are but you are correct when you say that I hate Communism and Communists, having resisted such scum throughout the Cold War. I have plenty of friends who are well acquainted with Communism from first hand experience and I trust their opinion over some mouthpiece on the internet.
That is the trouble with you and your fellow brainwashed Reds; don't realise that they are brainwashed. Save you Red twaddle for the next party congress.
107

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 17:45:00
110 The irony is that your opnion will never be heard either, cos no one in China cares about you or any other western splittist that would wish to see millions of people starve and an entire country disintegrate into chaos and civil war. And dude, there's nothing you can do about that - not that you would anyway cos I get the sense that you dudes just like to sit around and listen to the sound of your own voices
108

Landman,

29/03/2008 17:55:40
112 Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen

Why does the Scotsman let you disrupt these threads, go back to the FH where you belong.
109

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

29/03/2008 18:03:32
...and you...CRAWL BACK UNDER YOUR ROCK TROLL...
110

,

29/03/2008 18:05:18
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111

James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 19:20:47
#114 Mashimaro,China - "The irony is that your opnion will never be heard either" - Fine by me. I could not give a stuff what anyone in your Red paradise thinks, least of all you. Just keep making the consumer goods for slave wages. Have a count of your own posts and let me know who likes to "listen to the sound of your own voices".
112

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 02:50:56
James Donald,
As long as we keep making the consumer goods for slave wages, you will keep buying them at bargain prices. Your greed dictates that, and suddenly human rights take a back seat. Can you say Hypocrite? Didn't think so!
113

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 03:43:10
James Donald,
It's nice to see that you have revealed your true character.
In post#113, you admitted to hating Communism and hating Communists. Hate is a strong and very distasteful feeling, and you'll get hung up on that, explaining your narrow-minded opinions and points of view. When you hate something and someone, you can't see the bigger picture, and you will believe anything negative said about such. This is why it is so easy to brainwash the likes of you, just like it is so easy to brainwash some of the people in the Middle East, enough so as to turn them into suicide bombers. With your feelings of hate, there's no reasoning with you, or anybody like you. Learn to think for yourself, and you will be free to lose your feelings of hate. It will only make you a better person. Don't paint everyone and everything with the same brush.
114

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 03:58:00
James Donald,
By calling us "scum", you're complimenting us, for "scum" and "cream" both rise to the top, and therefore you realize that we are good and don't reside under rocks. Communists are still people with all the same human emotions as everyone else, we love, laugh, cry and hurt the same as everyone else.
115

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 04:03:10
Hey, Postmark you know the 3 Gorges Dam? The mighty Yangtze... have you ever looked at it's geography?
Ever looked at the geography of the Mekong, the Huang He, and Salween Rivers?
This is what these people want to take away and put into the hands of the US and UK so they can break China, cause starvation and drought, rob us of the hydropower we've spent billions on. That is their ulitmate goal. The Tibetan thing is just a flag to gather the mindless mob and give them something to feel outraged about.
It is a shame, in a way because China will never let Tibet go. All this idiocy, the protests, the riots, the killing, will just force Beijing to really crack down, whether it costs them the Olympics or not.
If you have a look at the pic show on China Daily http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/# (yes, I know, it's a government run paper, but still) you can clearly see how the monks are leading the rioters. There are cinnamon robes all over the violence. I would reckon that as the Games get closer and more and more violent uprisings occur, you'll see the lockdown on these places increase and I suspect there will be a lot of those criminal monks who see the inside of a prison cell.
It's all part of the US/CIA policy of "You die, we cry" where they encourage uprisings by locals to make the government look bad. Unfortunately most of the criminal CIA-trained insurgents end up dead.
116

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 04:16:17
Horrible Cankers,
For someone who doesn't believe anyone coming from China, or anything coming from China, why is it that you quote the China Daily? Quite hypocritical, wouldn't you say? For the last time, Santa Claus and the Panchen Lama are one and the same. They're right up there with Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse and Goofy. All fictional characters invented purely to entertain children, are you a child? Just because we have pictures and stories showing and depicting them, we as adults know that it isn't true.
By the way, Dragonhead asked me, very politely, to please say hello to you from him. So, Here goes, HELLO.
117

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 04:35:53
Mashimaro, The points you are making, are fact. I have not seen the pictures, but my tibetan sources, and yes, they are ethnic Tibetans, agree with what you just pointed out. They have told me numerous times, that it was the monks, some dressed as monks, but all etnic Tibetans, that caused all these very violent crimes. These sources of mine realize that at this rate, nothing will get solved and that some kind of dialogue is necessary, but with their "leader" safely tucked away in India, there's not much chance of that. Of course the USA and their criminal organization, the CIA, are behind this. The world hates the USA and CIA, therefore they use these unsuspecting ethnic Tibetans to carry their dirty little fight for them, and we, collectively as a nation, get a huge black eye from that.
As far as the Three Gorges Dam is concerned, you may well be correct about that, I really don't know, but you have definitely hit the nail on the head as far as the Tibet issue is concerned.
James Donald already admitted to hating Communists and Communism, so it is so easy to brainwash the likes of him, of which there could be many.
118

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 04:46:19
Postmark:

I'm always very wary of people who think Communism is a crime in and of itself. It is, in fact, a sound principal of running a society. People who function purely on shallow greed fear it because it promotes the virtues of selflessness, hard work, education and a love for their fellow man.
I am not denying the atrocities committed in the name of communsim or by communist leaders, but I suspect if you had to look at some of the atrocities committed by leaders of nations before communism came around, you would find a lot to be shocked at.
There are a few things people fail to understand about communism.
One would be that the countries which used it as a means to improve life for their citizens have often seen great leaps forward in living standards, literacy and technology. You take both Russia and China which were both backward agrarian societies, and now they are nations that send people into space.
Another would be that communism appears to be the best alternative to indigeonous people who have been ravaged by the colonial masters who plunder their country's resources and leave them in poverty. When these people began to protest, the colonial masters would deliver their own form of crackdowns that were also harsh and brutal. So they would turn to communism as a way of combatting that. It just makes sense that resources be nationalised for the good of all the people, not just the wealthy few.
119

thatscottishwoman§,

The Kirkyard 30/03/2008 04:47:29
117 Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen

You are wrong as usual, Troll.
120

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 04:53:17
Sadly the continued sabotage by the west - the shooting of Red Chinese soldiers after world war II, the Americans shooting Soviets during the civil war there, the cutting of economic ties like in the USSR, China, Cuba, continued terrorist activities - Russia, Cuba - or the outright wars, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and most of South America ensure that these countries will fail in anything they try to do.
It's interesting that people "hate" communism when it has done nothing to them personally, but has been the hope of poor people all over the world. The west has ensured that hope has been killed in one way or another. If you want to know more about this from a US side of things I suggest you read William Blum's "Killing Hope" and "Rogue Nation".
You will see thre how the West has perverted elections to keep communists out of power, how they have used bio warfare to crash Cuba's vital crops, how they have manipulated the weather to bring floods and disasters to communist countries, had communit leaders assassinated or at least villified around the world and so on. After WWII America pumped millions of dollars into Japan which was heading towards communism - on the intruction that the commies better not get in.
121

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 05:05:15
thatscottishwoman, Horrible Cankers and TSW, sorry to break up your little love tiangle, but we are discussing the Tibet issue here, please find another line to hang your laundry.
Mashimaro,
I can't and won't argue the points you just made. Communism may not be perfect, but like you said, it eveolved out of need, as a form of protection. Of course, there are always the corrupt few that will taint its name, but it is a far better alternative to Democracy, which itself is a total farce. Why vote, it means nothing anyways, just another way to hoodwink the sheep in your flock. Up until two and a half years ago, I only heard about Communism, and all its evils, but since then I can see how blatantly I was lied to. At least here most of the people work, and don't make careers out of welfare, like so many in the west do, under the Democratic flag. That just presents a huge and expensive burden on the actual work force, one of the reasons why their tax rate should be considered a crime. If anything, if they understood Communism, they would be jealous and try to adopt it in the west. But, like I said before, they have been taught to hate it, and therefore want no part of it. Their loss.
122

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 05:25:35
Mashimaro,
Because of a name, Communism, smeared effectively by the western leaders, will be feared and hated amongst the citizens of the west. Having lived there for forty-seven and a half years, all I ever heard was how bad the Communists are. In the early 70's, it was mandatory in middle school to read "Animal Farm", a book depicting pigs, greedy pigs, as the Commununists in the animal kingdom. Need I say more? Also, how ironic, after nuking Japan, the USA suddenly became its big and protecting brother, to "protect" them from that evil Communism.
Mashimaro, you make valid points all the time, but unfortunately you favour Communism over alternatives, so the hating west will not even try to look at your point of view. And we are the brainwashed ones? Fight on brother, I've got your back.
123

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 05:54:43
Mashimaro,
When I was a youngster, my parents faithfully hauled me of to church, yes, every week. When I became a little older, I questioned the doctrines and laws of the church, and the chuch painted me as a trouble maker, you see, you are not allowed to question them, just believe everything they tell you. I was a trouble maker for thinking for myself, and the irony is, I was only ten years old. This is what the western citizens face everyday, whether from religion or government, don't you even dare to think for your yourself, for you are stupid and only there for us to steal from you. Before I left Canada, I don't know if that is still the same now, but at that time we Called July the 1st, tax free day. To make my point, what that meant was that half the year was over, so that meant half of your hard earned money was paid in one form of tax or another, whether income tax, Provincial tax, Goods and sevices tax,[GST], fees of any kind, whether service or environmental, and of course, the trusty monetary fines that went along with everything. To sum that up, a full 50% of your wages went to some form of government or their agencies. That my trusted friend, is the beautiful and Democratic way. Now why again is it that Communism is so bad?
124

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 08:23:17
#119 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - I don't dictate the globalisation policies of the capitalist corporations (which your government seems happy to cooperate with). Hypocritical of you to imply anyone else is a hypocrit.
125

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 08:34:08
#120 postmark54,Chongqing, China - Yes I hate a system that has brought death and suffering to untold millions since 1917 and I do not see that as in any way being distateful except to Communists. If you find it distateful then too bad, there are plenty of people who have suffered under Communist regimes who will find your remarks distateful.
I do think for myself and that is why I do not believe propaganda trotted out by Red dross (thought I would use a different word since you mistakenly believe that scum is a compliment).
126

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 09:02:47
James Donald,
I have no idea as to what a Red dross is, so once again, you have wasted some words here on me. What is apparent though, is the fact that you are filled with hatred towards something you know absolutely nothing about, that is why I accuse you of being brainwashed. If you were to live in China though, as I have for the past two and a half years, you would clearly see as to how much you have been lied to by your so-called leaders, who don't want you to know about a better alternative to Democracy. I live here, earn all of my money here, and spend all of my money here, buying only Chinese made goods, and don't get raped by the criminal tax system that leaves all of you westerners whining about how unfair things are. Remember that I lived there, I do know what is happening there and I do know what I'm talking about. Those are facts, nothing made up by some lying media and government scheme, words from a person that walked the walk. You can call me names, argue all that you want, but facts are facts, and only a fool would dispute what I'm saying. Are you a fool, James Donald? I know that I'm not!
127

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 09:15:47
#133 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "I have no idea as to what a Red dross is, so once again, you have wasted some words here on me" - I think a Canadian native would have understood this just fine. Strange that a Canadian living in Communist China would come to the webside of a Scottish website to post propaganda telling how wonderful the Red paradise is. I have been to countreis which were once Communists and have met many who suffered persecution under such regimes. Are they all lying to me or is the Communist regime the only one that is true, never murdered or persecuted anyone and has secured a very high standard of living for all its citizens?
"Those are facts, nothing made up by some lying media and government scheme, words from a person that walked the walk" - No facts only your opinions and propaganda, no doubt posted at the behest of a government agency. Only a fool would believe any of your clap-trap so spare yourself the effort.
128

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 09:18:53
James Donald,
I don't know about Scotland, for I have never set foot in your country, but in Canada, a great and "free" Democratic society, there are untold numbers of "food banks", purely due to the fact that the government has failed miserably in looking after its citizens. That is a prime example of human rights abuse, and thank God that there are good hearted and kind citizens stringing up safety nets too catch the ones falling through the cracks. We also have far too many homeless people there, and believe me, you don't want to live on the streets of any Canadian city in the winter time, but yet it happens all the time. People freezing to death, whilst the government turns a blind eye. Parden the pun here James Donald, but those are cold, hard facts. No lies, just another example of Democracy working its magic.
129

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 09:27:24
James Donald,
My heart really goes out to you, for you refuse to believe the truth, all I can say is that in your case, the brainwashing, done by your western leadership, is a complete success story and your government gets an A+ for a job well done. Poor James Donald, it seems as if all hope is lost for you, you can always pray for a miracle, that is the only hope you have left. I sincerely wish you a good life, and no harm.
130

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 09:36:03
#136 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - Spare me your naked insincerinty. What would you pray for me at all? Surely as a Communiust you don't believe in God (or is it Mao you pray to?). The victims of Communism I know in Europe do not work for the government so, unlike yourself, nobody has "brainwashed" me.
I am sure I will come to no harm and will have a good life all without the help of a Communist government.
131

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 09:39:00
#135 postmark54,Chongqing, China - Try reading about the "Magic" that Communist governments weaved during the 20th Century - you might have to buy such books outside the Red paradise though.
132

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 09:59:07
James Donald,
There again, you don't read things very clearly, do you? I clearly stated, "you can always pray for a miracle", I didn't say that I would. I believe that heaven is a place on Earth, not some fairy tale brought on by the western religions.
If you do good, good will come to you, and that will bring you a feeling of satisfaction, therefore giving you that "heavenly" feeling.
That other fairy tale is just there to "milk" you for your money, so that you can buy a seat on the bus destined for heaven.
As far as reading that propaganda goes, no thanks, I had my share of that in the west, and have learned to think for myself, and am living amongst Communists and Communism, so I can see for myself that Communism is indeed good, and not bad, as you have been told all of your life. And because you have been completely brainwashed, you are happy with the way your government rapes you everyday, for they tell you that they are doing you a favour. Keep believing James Donald, Keep believing.
PS, I don't know about China being red, but it is indeed a paradise.
133

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 10:10:51
#134 I have been to countreis which were once Communists and have met many who suffered persecution under such regimes. Are they all lying to me or is the Communist regime the only one that is true, never murdered or persecuted anyone and has secured a very high standard of living for all its citizens?


would you like to read about people who have suffered under the madness of kings? Or those who have been persecuted by capitalism? Go to your slums of India and ask them how they like it. Go to South America and ask them how they're getting on. Ask Diane Ortiz how she liked it. How about Nelson Mandela or Steve Biko?
134

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 10:20:37
#134I have been to countreis which were once Communists and have met many who suffered persecution under such regimes. Are they all lying to me or is the Communist regime the only one that is true, never murdered or persecuted anyone and has secured a very high standard of living for all its citizens?"

Which countries would those be?
Perhaps you don't understand the tennets of communism very well. It's not to give everyone a great standard of living. It's not even to give some people a great standard of living. It is to ensure that everyone's basic needs are met. It ensures that as many people as possible have standard medical care, as many people as possible have food, water, housing and education. It doesn't promise riches because it doesn't pander to man's greed.
135

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 10:21:18
James Donald,
As far as me reading a Scottish newspaper goes, I try to keep informed about the going ons of all parts of the world, but don't comment on their problems, for each country has far too many of its own, including Scotland. I do step up to the plate though, when an uninformed person like yourself tries to run my adopted country into the ground. You have no idea as to what you are talking about. That in itself isn't the problem, the problem is when you say slanderous and hurtful things about which you really have no idea. You don't live here, you have never been here, and you don't know anyone that does live here. So when people like Mashimaro and myself try to inform you of the facts within China's borders, you just scoff and resort to name calling, names I don't even understand. I have tried to figure you out, but have hit a brick wall, you don't want to accept opinions and accounts of people living in China, I'm at a loss as what it would take for the likes of you to open your mind. Mashimaro and I have tried, and will keep up our fight for our country.
136

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 10:28:49
Hey, Postmark, have you ever gone to that other bastion of communism Vietnam? It's great, specially around Ha Long Bay. Try to get there some time and enjoy a really cultrual experience. While you're there you might want to stop in at the homes for people who were born deformed from the chemicals used by the Americans. It's quite horrifying, but they are gentle and wonderful people, despite what they have suffered. Too bad the the US will never be forced to pay for its war crimes.
137

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 10:43:53
Hi Mashimaro,
No, I have never been there, but have heard from friends as to what you are telling me. I may visit there in the future, but have not made any plans as of now. I want to see much more of China first, what I have seen so far, has been great. The Chinese are wonderful, gentle and kind people, and peace-loving as well. Its a real shame that the people within this commentary section, have been misled and hate all and everything to do with Communism. I have never been homesick in my life, but I would surely be for this great nation and its wonderful people. I will always be thankful for China having made me feel so welcome. And you my friend Mashimaro, hopefully one day we can meet. I would sure like to shake your hand, and see the face of a great and good hearted person like yourself.
As far as the USA goes, they make the global rules, they don't have to and surely do not follow them, and the UK isn't that far behind.
138

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 11:04:10
You never stop "seeing China" it's too big and there's too much.
139

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 11:13:11
Mashimaro,
Did you read postings 128, 129 and 130 I sent you? that shows the problems the westerners face everyday, under the thumb of Democracy. Also the post to James Donald, #135, again, Democracy shining at its brightest. The FOOD BANKS I referred to, are there for the untold thousands of people that don't have enough to get by on, and the government, after already having taxed everyone to death, turns a blind eye and says, its not our problem. So the food banks are stocked with food, to at least feed the impoverished ones, all run independently from the government. That is the monster we so proudly call Democracy.
140

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 11:19:14
Mashimaro,
Try to remember that Canada is a country slightly larger than China, yet has a population only slightly larger than the municipality of Chongqing, Canada about 33 million, Chongqing somewhere from 31-32 million, probably many more if you were to do a headcount of the migrant workers. My point is, Canada, with its massive land size, small poulation, and untold resources, still has more than its share of problems, flying that ever popular Democratic flag. They just don't get in the west though, never have and likely never will.
141

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 11:31:36
It's great to see the young people abroad calling for the media to be brought under control. In your native country, postmark, and the US. A good backlash happening there.
AP reports: Yao, 22, is a Chinese-born computer engineering student at Canada’s Simon Fraser University. He has lived in the United States and Canada since age 10 but says his loyalties lie with China. He plans to return after graduation.
“We are under no government influence and we are doing this strictly because we believe that, we, as people who have Chinese heritage in us, should try to correct the world when they have been wrongly informed about China,” he said in an e-mail.
Liu Yang in Chicago said; "I don't understand. They struggle for press freedom and fairness, but why would they lose their conscience now. "Isn't the media indpendent instead of being a mouthpiece?"
Go kids!
142

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 11:45:14
Mashimaro,
Its a good start, and lets hope that they can keep the ball rolling. Its an uphill battle, but we have to start somewhere. There are, I am sure, many western people that are self thinkers, and all they need is a little push and some inspiration to at least admit that their system is no bed of roses, and soon after that, they too will see that Communism is not their enemy, just another alternative. Our hope lies with the kids, they are brave and full of vigor, and can get the job done. The USA for one, under its present leadership, is questioning exactly what it is about Democracy that is so good. Their votes have gone nowhere, and talk of impeaching Bush is just talk, for the Democratic system will never let that happen. We don't vote, big deal, it means sweet tweet anyways. The west is beginning to see that it doesn't work for them, it is just the hard liners like James Donald and Company, that refuse to see the light.
143

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 13:02:01
128...P45...OOOOh major faux pas there sweetie pie...time to pick up your P45 from your CCP employers mate...you're getting a bit confused with all your trolling doll...need to regroup and decide who you are...you see...TSW had not posted here....yet you included the name in your post...You are getting slack...they must be short of a few bob in the red purse if you are the best they can afford...

How did you know who TSW was?..unless...you could'nt possibly be that sad wretch that has been trolling her all this time...and everyone else at the Freehootsman...

Falun Gong....thousands tortured to death in police custody...thousands imprisoned and executed...thousands sexually abused by the sick Chinese authorities...

Ever see the British TV documentary 'The Dying rooms'...?..eh?..go on..tell us that was faked...
144

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 13:07:53
All this cat pawing is a pain in the ear. I think there are enough things wrong with China for people to be upset about, without them having to make stuff up.
You should see the latest BS Associated Press has put out. The thing is we just don't have the resources to dig around enough to find the truth and expose them for the lying baskets that they are.
145

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 13:25:21
Do you get much overtime for your weekend work?...mmmh..it pay well?

Just think...all those babies..50.000 approximately...most of them female...adopted by the enemy...Americans, who want to care for those poor souls discarded by their chinese parents...those so cherished babies that will grow up in a capitalist society...well at least the girls will not grow up to be forced to have an abortion...having to watch as their full term baby is wrenched from their body and then injected with poison...before it can use its lungs and scream for the first time...

Your protestations of caring for your citizens reeks of hypocrisy...its all hot air and pomp...honour and noble are not two words that can be applied here...
146

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 13:38:39
Horrible Cankers,
No screw up on my part, TSW was referred to in posting #101, by Harry "Dingy" Reid. As an informer, I've learned to pick up on these things. By the way, you keep calling me P45, problem with dyslexia? I always thought it was postmark54, but what do I know? And of course your country, or any western country, doesn't have abortions eh? Of course not, other than the fact that you are proof af a living abortion. One more question, did your parents have any kids that lived? Didn't think so.
147

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 13:44:38
"Just think...all those babies..50.000 approximately...most of them female...adopted by the enemy...Americans, who want to care for those poor souls discarded by their chinese parents...those so cherished babies that will grow up in a capitalist society...well at least the girls will not grow up to be forced to have an abortion...having to watch as their full term baby is wrenched from their body and then injected with poison...before it can use its lungs and scream for the first time..."

While I agree with you that throwing children away is not a good choice, I can understand why rural parents who are desperate for boys do it. this is not a phenomenon original to china or communism (eejit) but can be found in many Asian countries such as India where boys are preferred over girls.
As to girls having forced abortions *deep sigh* this is not official government policy. How many times do I have to tell you that? Are you deaf, blind or just a retard? However it is your government's offical policy to kidnap people in other countries and hold them prisoner while torturing them. So I'd keep my mouth shut if I were you.
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30/03/2008 15:11:32
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Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 15:16:06
er, excuse me troll... these women do have a choice. It's a strange one indeed, and probably one never contemplated in your country - but they could have practiced family planning - used the pill, injection or a condom and not fallen pregnant in the first place. So they do bear some responsibility in the treatment they get.
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30/03/2008 15:16:56
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Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 15:23:31
Condoms burst, the pill does not always work..

What about men?....no mention of their responsibility...typical commie chauvanist response to the issue of forced abortion....you make me sick to my stomach...you are the very essence of your commie regime...you should be proud of your disgusting self..

All those babies aborted...all those discarded babies gone to foreign lands...away from their real parents who probably wanted them in the first place..

Your culture is sick..
152

Landman,

30/03/2008 15:24:47
Horrible Cankers and other trolls try to use conspiracy theories and lame excuses to throw the scent off themselves for the trolling they do. The twits even delete their own posts. What a sad bunch of trolls, I guess the FH site was not what they hoped it would be and now they are back here causing trouble.
153

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 15:26:28
Mashimaro,
Guess you had the Horrible Cankers pegged right all along, RETARD. Oh well, there surely must be some form of intelligent life out in the west, or is that just wishful thinking on my part.
154

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 15:29:02
Is that the best you can do?...really showing your true colours now...guttersnipe..
155

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 15:31:37
"having to watch as their full term baby is wrenched from their body and then injected with poison...before it can use its lungs and scream for the first time..."

Um... I don't know what fiction you've been reading (you really should try your hand at writing some emotive Human or Animal rights fluff pieces) but women who have late term abortions are given anaesthetics before hand. I guess it's moderately better where if they don't come in they pay the midwife to drown the child as soon as it's born - if it's a girl. Or is that India...
Yeah, let the Americans take them. Good on them.
Tell me, do you think the government likes this sort of thing happening? Don't you think that if there were any other way they would have come up with a solution?

BTW I work in China, the emphasis being on the word "work". Overtime pay is not a concept we embrace. Excellence and dilligence are more important to us.
156

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 15:35:07
"Women who are given late term abortions are given anaesthetics before hand"...well whoopee feckin doopee and aint they lucky? Whats the baby given..apart from a big needle in the neck?....

For "Given" read "Forced"..
157

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 15:38:54
Thanks for confirming the abomination of the forced abortions by the way...yeah your right...your version..is far more believable...

The mothers can still watch though....they aint unconscious mate..
158

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 15:39:20
Landman,
I don't know what the FH site is, but you are correct, this aptly named Horrible Cankers needs to return there, or keep patrolling the bridge. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
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30/03/2008 15:41:49
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 15:47:29
Horrible Cankers,
Posting #166, directed at anyone in particular, or are YOU indeed talking to yourself? So you TROLL the bridge Horrible Cankers, or patroll the bridge, there is a difference you know.
161

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 15:48:59
I'm embarrassed for you..
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30/03/2008 15:51:51
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30/03/2008 15:53:20
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30/03/2008 15:54:31
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30/03/2008 15:57:39
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30/03/2008 15:59:18
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Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/03/2008 16:04:38
Awwww diddums...must be a boring Sunday for you..
168

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/03/2008 16:05:42
The real Horrible Cankers Le Cyber Shebeen,
This is bizarre and quite confusing to say the least. The imposter really is a retard then, and therefore needs to be ignored, and it needs a life as well. Scotland has Nessie and an imposter Horrible Cankers, what next?
169

Mashimaro,

164 30/03/2008 16:09:14
"Thanks for confirming the abomination of the forced abortions by the way...yeah your right...your version..is far more believable...

The mothers can still watch though....they aint unconscious mate.."

What is "my" version?
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bikewoman,

30/03/2008 16:09:38
Yes, I do remember the real HC spending much of her time in Franch and having the moniker Le Cyber Shebeen.
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30/03/2008 16:10:55
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bikewoman,

30/03/2008 16:11:29
Basically all you have to do is look at the insulting remarks and you will see the troll "at the Cyber Shebeen"
173

bikewoman,

30/03/2008 16:13:30
It was not too long ago that same troll was using the monkier Doreen at the Cyber Shebeen" to harass the real Horrible Cankers Le Cyber Shebeen.
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30/03/2008 16:27:32
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James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 16:56:46
#139 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - "I clearly stated, "you can always pray for a miracle"" - Encouraging anyone to pray to a God in which you do not believe or believing in an devine act such as a miracle, surely these are words of heresy in the Workers' paradise?
"I believe that heaven is a place on Earth" - So does this mean you are a big fan of Belinda Carlisle?
Communist China is a paradise to which you are welcome. I will take my chances as a down-trodden worker in a capitalist state rather than enjoy the benefits of life in your Red cesspit. You will be telling me next that Workuta was a holiday camp.
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James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 17:00:45
#140 Mashimaro,China - "would you like to read about people who have suffered under the madness of kings? Or those who have been persecuted by capitalism?" - No thanks. I am not a monarchist, neither am I overly keen on rampant, unrestrained capitalism. You, on the other hand, are trying (and failing miserably) to defend a system of government with the blood of millions on its hands. Back to the drawing board with this little propaganda cul de sack.
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James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 17:09:01
#141 Mashimaro,China - "Which countries would those be?" - Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and the Ukraine. Aside from a tiny group of PDS canvassers in Prenzlau, I have yet to meet anyone in these countries that longed to return to the good old days of Communism with its food shortages, political repression and state murder. Perhaps the people in these countries are deluded and greedy or are they just lying to me?
178

Mashimaro,

183 30/03/2008 17:13:42
Oh I get it. You support a perfect form of government yet to be discovered.

Anyhow, have a panda

Your press still lied, your government policy is also to murder and torture and kidnap people, and some people out there have taken the things I have said into consideration.

179

Mashimaro,

China 30/03/2008 17:15:41
184 er.. I hate to be the one to burst your wee bubble on this Jimmy, but those countries were not communist. There were occupied vassals of the USSR. They never wanted to be communist in the first place.
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James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 17:16:11
#142 postmark54,Chongqing, China - What a crock.....this is even less convincing than the GIYUS posters flock here to defend their precious little carbunkle in the Middle East.
I do not, however, believe that you are paid to post this guff as nobody in their right mind would pay for propaganda that is so amateurish and unconvincing.
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James Donald,

Newbridge 30/03/2008 17:20:12
#186 Mashimaro,China - Think you will find that Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and the Ukraine part of the USSR. As for the rest, they were run by the Communist Party as one party states; I think that makes them former Communist states. Think again.
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30/03/2008 22:17:43
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31/03/2008 00:03:17
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thatscottishwoman§,

The Kirkyard 31/03/2008 00:46:32
#190 HC

Fibber
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31/03/2008 02:53:42
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Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 03:43:33
#188

James, none of them wanted to be Communist. They were like any people who have power enforced on them. The Ukraine certainly did not want to be communist, hence their rebellion. You need to talk to people who did want to be communist and then changed their minds.
I too have spoken to people who were dissatisfied with communism. Their biggest whine was having to stand in queues to get bread.
I know there were many other worse things that were probably going on, but you are talking about a nationan conglomerate that had been through two world wars and one civil war, along with a huge flu epidemic. It was indeed struggling for survival. It was not in a position to be generous. The US poured money into Europe post WWII so that the western states would not turn communist. Italy specifically had its politics severely interfered with, its people threatened, bombarded with publicity from US Italians etc etc.
No such aid went into Russia or the USSR.
The USSR was on its knees. Then the west put trade embargos and all sorts of other nonsense on to the USSR.
What do you think happens to a country bombed, millions of its people slaughtered, infrastructure ruined, with the same thing happening in its satelite states, money pouring into its neighbour states and it has nowhere to go?
You can surely see the logic of what happened. Don't blame it on the ideal.
The continued interference by the west made sure it really did battle to get on its feet. Once it was there it was smashed again and the vassal states freed.
The drunken western puppet Yeltsin crashed it even further and now only under the great leadership of Putin does it rise again. Yet the west is still not happy and continues to slander it at every chance.
187

Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 03:56:25
"Thanks for confirming the abomination of the forced abortions by the way...yeah your right...your version..is far more believable..."

I happened to confirm it about three or four threads ago. You really should learn to read.
Once again, I would like you to tell me what "my" version is.
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 05:31:09
Long live the great China, and yes, Tibet is indeed a province of China. Look at any modern map.
FREE THE AMERICAS, FREE IRAQ AND ANY OTHER NATION OCCUPIED BY THE EVIL WESTERN POWERS.
189

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 05:40:40
Horrible Cankers,
Please feel free to participate in the Beijing "special" Olympics, you'll clean up on all the gold.
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Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 06:34:51
#196 Oh I doubt she will. You actually have to "do" something to take part
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Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 07:19:58
It's interesting to note, Jimmy D, that just before it was disbanded the great old USSR had the second largest economy in the world. I wonder why you would think communism doesn't work.
192

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 07:23:12
#193 Mashimaro,China - Who did want to be Communist? Not the "Vassal States" as you call them, not the Ukraine, not Belarus, nor Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan or Kaliningrad. So when you start to examine the countries that were Communist using your yardstick, the numbers drop dramatically.
Russia may not have received and aid post-war from the USA (although it received plenty during WW2 uner the lend-lease scheme which it did not pay for) but it had the resources of the counquered countries of Eastern Europe to plunder and an army of unpaid slaves in the Gulags to call on.
So enough of the poor old Soviet Union sob stories please - it was a brutal and evil regime of which the World is well rid.
193

Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 08:20:49
#199 Who did want to be Communist? Not the "Vassal States" as you call them, not the Ukraine, not Belarus, nor Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan or Kaliningrad."

That is exactly what I said to you. You contradicted me.
All of these states were open to corruption by the West and they were corrupted.

"So when you start to examine the countries that were Communist using your yardstick, the numbers drop dramatically."
I wasn't talking about the numbers of communist countries. Just the success of.

"Russia may not have received and aid post-war from the USA (although it received plenty during WW2 uner the lend-lease scheme which it did not pay for). The countries of eastern europe had the poo bombed out of them too. Poland being the worst. It's all very well to say it should have managed to sort things out but it was cut off from the outside world by your countries stupid idea that communism should be strangled at birth. No country can succeed in isolation. I think China has proved that very well with it's economy gaining such tremendous power after it was allowed to trade with others.
"but it had the resources of the counquered countries of Eastern Europe to plunder and an army of unpaid slaves in the Gulags to call on."
I am glad you can see the sense of the plundering. You would be surprised at how many people think they should have just sucked resources out of thin air.
Yes it was a brutal regime. I am not suprised, however, given the constant interference by the west which would be enough to drive any leader into the depths of paranoia. I'm amazed Castro held up so long.






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31/03/2008 10:41:16
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Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 10:49:58
explalin to me what you think my view is on forced abortions. It's a simple request.
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James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 11:09:48
#200 Mashimaro,China - "That is exactly what I said to you" - Nothing of the sort. The countries I listed were all constituent parts of the USSR as opposed to "vassal states" conquered during WW2. I could extend the list to include various other regions of the USSR until there was little left but a Russian rump. Even then, how many Russians wanted Communism in 1917 when the Bolsheviks were a small extremist group. But then you reveal your true colours with ridiculous statements like "All of these states were open to corruption by the West and they were corrupted". Did the Soviet bloc collapse because it was corrupted by the West or because it was an evil regime which did not have the support of the people it claimed to represent.
I can only agree with your statement about the USSR "Yes it was a brutal regime" but do not agree with your conclusions that this course was forced upon it by the West. The West (not a single entity in any case) is not responsible for Communist brutalities. Doesn't the CP teach you to make your propaganda more subtle than this?

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Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 11:17:46
202...and I have made many similar simple requests....name your newspaper...
198

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 11:43:38
If Tibet went about getting independence the way Scotland is doing it now, through talks and negotiations, there wouldn't be a problem of violence. The problem started with a violent and deadly uprising, and our government quelled the situation, like it had the responsibility, the obligation and yes, the right to do so. If you think that the government of the UK would stand idly by if you folks decided to go on a murderous rampage, think again. You would be controlled by whatever means possible to protect the citizens, innocent citizens, at large. Same goes for the governments of the Americas, they too would do whatever necessary to quell violent uprisins by the Native Americans, whether in the northern, central or southern part of the Americas. Those of you who disagree with these statements are fools indeed.
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Hemingway,

Ayr 31/03/2008 11:43:52
178 & 181 Horrible Cankers

What a filthy mouth you have!
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31/03/2008 11:54:25
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Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 11:56:07
At the end of the day, semantics or not, those states did not wish to be communist. They were open to corruption and they were by and large corrupted.

Albania, 1949-53:
The U.S. and Britain tried unsuccessfully to overthrow the communist government and install a new one that would have been pro-Western and composed largely of monarchists and collaborators with Italian fascists and Nazis.
Germany, 1950s:
The CIA orchestrated a wide-ranging campaign of sabotage, terrorism, dirty tricks, and psychological warfare against East Germany. This was one of the factors which led to the building of the Berlin Wall in 1961.
1947 covert operations in Romania (they failed)
1950 covert operations in Albania (failed)
1951 covert operations in Poland

You might be interested to know that since the fall of the USSR Latvia; Mongolia; Ukraine; Belarus; Azerbaijan; Georgia; Armenia; Kazakhstan; Uzbekistan; Moldova, Russia, Tajikistand, Bosnia-Herzogovina, Bulgari and Kosovo have all been held in debt leverage to the US.
1952 – East Germany: despite Soviet attempts to get out of Berlin, requiring only assurances from the US that Germany would be a) democratic, b) demilitarized, c) united, and d) neutral, the US insisted on the precarious, ignorant status quo, obviously preferring it to the just Soviet proposal. Up, then, went the Berlin Wall in 1961, which was called an act of tyranny by moronic US commentators, but was intended by the Soviet Union to keep fascists, CIA operatives, saboteurs, assassins, and other agents of Kapital away. This event is largely responsible for much escalation of the Cold War during 50s, which would predictably and wrongly be blamed on the USSR.

and so it goes.


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Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 11:58:05
204 /ignore
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 11:58:39
Horrible Cankers can't be blamed for its actions and words, it is "special". Just look at any of Horrible Canker's postings, and you can clearly see my point. Sounds and looks like Horrible Cankers has amassed a long list of enemies, oh well, them's the breaks.
204

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 12:00:55
"The people may be made to follow a path of action, but they may not be made to understand it"

Confucius

209...chicken...sQwuAk !
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31/03/2008 12:02:32
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 12:08:53
Horrible Cankers,
still having problems with dyslexia I see, and still a conspiracy theorist as well. Dragonhead, Dalian China. postmark54, Chongqing China and Hemingway, Ayr. My oh my, paranoid as well as "special". Are you sure that Mashimaro is also not the same character as the three above mentioned characters? Who knows Horrible Cankers, there might be 1.3 billion of us, but actually only one, just going by different names.
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Night Worker,

St Enoch Centre 31/03/2008 12:11:56
any friend of djookers the troll is a troll and horrible cankers is a good friend of the biggest troll of them all
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James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 12:20:03
#208 Mashimaro,Red China 31/03/2008 - Whether at the end, middle or beginning of the day there are few if any states where the majority of the populance wanted to become Communist. If these states were corrupted, then it was by their own Communist leaders and not by the West.
Of course Britain, America and others in the West operated against oppressive Communist regimes such as Albania, as they were the enemy in the Cold War. It is not as if Communists did not try to subvert the regimes of other non-Communist countries ever since the Comintern was founded in 1919.
As to your riduculous claim that the Berlin Wall was to keep out Fascists etc..... that would be the same claim of the oppresive DDR government when they named it the "Anti-Fascist Protection Barrier". Nothing to do then with the thousands of East Germans escaping to the West - just as they did in 1989, when Honniker's Socialist paradise collapsed.
"and so it goes" - you said it. Back to propaganda school for you sonny.
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 12:21:30
Night worker, St Enoch Centre,
Thank you for your confirmation, and I feel sorry for you if you indeed know that THING personally. I can see why you work at night, anything to keep the Horrible Cankers nightmares at bay. Just seeing its drool on the computer is enough to send chills up anybody's spine, and yes Horrible Cankers, we humans have a spine. Sorry Horrible Cankers, I imagine that went right over your head.
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James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 12:22:26
#208 Mashimaro,Red China 31/03/2008 - Whether at the end, middle or beginning of the day there are few if any states where the majority of the populance wanted to become Communist. If these states were corrupted, then it was by their own Communist leaders and not by the West.
Of course Britain, America and others in the West operated against oppressive Communist regimes such as Albania, as they were the enemy in the Cold War. It is not as if Communists did not try to subvert the regimes of other non-Communist countries ever since the Comintern was founded in 1919.
As to your riduculous claim that the Berlin Wall was to keep out Fascists etc..... that would be the same claim of the oppresive DDR government when they named it the "Anti-Fascist Protection Barrier". Nothing to do then with the thousands of East Germans escaping to the West - just as they did in 1989, when Honniker's Socialist paradise collapsed.
"and so it goes" - you said it. Back to propaganda school for you sonny.
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 12:29:53
Mashimaro,
It is becoming increasingly clear that James Donald's head is lined with lead and filled with concrete. That boy's head is about as thick and dense as it gets. After brainwashing him, that is what his beloved and lying government did to him. Not his fault. One can only feel sorry for him. He openly admitted to hating Communism as well as Communists, proving that he has closed his eyes and mind to the truth. Hate is all consuming, and consume him it has. Rest in peace James, old buddy, rest in peace.
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31/03/2008 12:41:44
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 12:51:07
Horrible Cankers,
Help, I'm so confused, having a real identity problem here. Who is it that I am? Oh, I remember, I am one of the people posting here in favour of China. Yes, one of the ones faithfully standing up for this great country, a true paradise. I am glad that you hate China though, it will keep you there in Scotland, where you belong. We have enough monks stirring the pot in Tibet, we don't need you to help in the stirring department.
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31/03/2008 12:55:22
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James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 13:02:20
#218 postmark54,Chongqing, RedChina - The Red dross become increasingly frustrated that their unconvincing 1950's style Communist propaganda cuts no ice (only a pea-brain would believe such guff for more than a second).
As for my beloved government, I am not a supportr of the current UK government and never have been. You have shown yourself to be the dunce in Mashimaro's propaganda class (and about as Canadian as Egyptian whisky).
Not all Communists are beyond redemption; I had dinner with a former DDR border guard the last time I visited my Aunt in Germany. The first time I had seen one except through a gun sight - he was very informative about life in a socialist paradise. Not too late for you to escape.
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thatscottishwoman§,

The Kirkyard 31/03/2008 13:14:16
219 Horrible Cankers

LOL, you are even making a fool out of yourself on other threads with your wild claims. Go back under your bridge.
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 13:17:06
James Donald,
You surely can't be telling me that Egyptian whiskey is not Canadian. What next, Dragonhead isn't indeed me, as the Horrible Cankers would like you to believe.
Too bad you live over there, you would make such a great comrade. If you do decide to come to China, look me up in the phone book, page 87,473,152, Can't miss it.
218

Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 13:17:57
Poster... don't feed the troll, it has no contribution to this discussion what so ever.
Little Jimmy's sloganeering is so good he'd probably get a job in Beijing.

James, again, you talk to those from the vassal states. What point is that? Can you just for one minute imagine the energy it must have taken for the Soviets to control all those ingrates?
Yes, of course "communism was a failure"... hah...so much so that the communist part remains in charge of the Duma and would have won the state if it had not been for some vigorous interference from the west (for west, read US) Yeah...no one wanted to be communist, they just voted that way for the sheer fun of it.
You're in la la land my dear chap.
Take a look at what happened in Cuba and catch a clue. See how the western press vilifies Hugo Chavez right now.
Fact is that your capitalist masters saw their credit slaves getting some freedom and pooped themselves then meddled and meddled and meddled so that they systems were hamstrung in the first place. That way they could point and shout "failure". Truth is it's not a falure, it's a damn good success.
Look at Russia now that the trade gates have been opened. Look at China and Vietnam now that the trade gates have opened. Cambodia is just waiting in the wings.
Communism dragged the muslim satellite states into the 20th century boosting infrastructure education and most importantly human rights. Strange how the muslim terror regime was only unleashed once the USSR fell hmmm?
Maybe you need to talk to Russians. Although these days after the market liberation I would specualte that they wouldn't want to go back to beiing forced into a black hole by the west. I must say those I have met from Moscow to Vladivostok remember the time with a lot of nostalgia.
Perhaps you need to realise that people around the world have different ideals and goals.
219

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 13:36:41
#224 postmark54,Chongqing, China - I do not believe you are Dragonhead as he has a uniquely vile "style". No chance of me coming to Red China - too late now to dispose of the Communist regime by force of arms in a nuclear age (should have done that back in 1945 by helping Chaing Kai-shek win).
I will stay in the West and oppose my government sure in the knowledge that such opposition will not result in a bullet in the back of the head kneeling on the edge of a pit or an extended stay in the grey bar hotel.
220

Finnking™,

Another Tax Zone 31/03/2008 13:45:39
201 Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen

Troll
221

Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 13:47:33
"Whether at the end, middle or beginning of the day there are few if any states where the majority of the populance wanted to become Communist. "

Wow,you really don't get the full picture, do you. maybe YOU're the one that needs to get out of the '50s rhetoric, sounding like you've been stuck in a time warp there, dude.

States that would have been communist if not for western interference:
1. Greece
2. Italy
3. Japan
4. Taiwan
5. South Korea
6. Most of south America

Those that ARE communist, incase you've forgotten.

1. China
2. Venezuela
3. Vietnam
4. Angola
5. Cuba
6. Korea North
7. Cyprus
8. Moldova
9. Laos

Many more follow a marxist lenninist ideology.



222

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 13:49:05
227

XX
223

Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 13:54:45
"No chance of me coming to Red China - too late now to dispose of the Communist regime by force of arms in a nuclear age (should have done that back in 1945 by helping Chaing Kai-shek win).
I will stay in the West and oppose my government sure in the knowledge that such opposition will not result in a bullet in the back of the head kneeling on the edge of a pit or an extended stay in the grey bar hotel."

Are you blind or just really stuck in the past? You have to know that China is changing and changing very very rapidly. Just in the last seven years there have been huge changes. But something in you blinds you to realising that. It's quiet sad... no it's very very sad.
224

,

31/03/2008 14:13:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
225

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 14:19:26
Mashimaro,
As I pointed out to you in posting #218, James Donald's head is lined with lead and filled with concrete, and he himself is filled with hate towards Communism and Communists. He should be so lucky to be stuck in the 5o's, but judging by his comments, he is still dwelling in 1917, long before he was thought of. He even admits to having had a Communist in the sight of his gun, posting #222, so there is a chance he may have pulled the trigger, only he knows for sure. What I do know for sure though, that our beloved "comrade" James Donald has more than a few problems with our system, and its a safe bet that his one celled brain won't let him get past the Communism issues. As I have mentioned before, his brainwashing has been a complete and total success.
No hard feelings there "comrade" James, only pity for you and the likes of you.
226

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 14:29:53
#225 Mashimaro, Red China - Shouldn't that be Comrad poster?
That's your evidence that Communism is a success? Venezuela, Cuba and the success of a post-Communist party in the Duma. I don't think the World can afford another Communist success and Communism will soon be confined to the dustbin of history.
I don't point out successful Capitalist regimes to you as I am not a fan of Capitalism (at least not the unrestrained type beloved of many in the West, especially the USA).
"Strange how the muslim terror regime was only unleashed once the USSR fell hmmm?" - Yes Communist repression was a useful tool in certain areas but the only Communist solution is to kill and imprison; not a viable solution in the long term.
"I must say those I have met from Moscow to Vladivostok remember the time with a lot of nostalgia" - No doubt there are many in Russia with a selective memory, but then there are those in Russia who are nostalgic for the days of the Tsar (he managed to keep Muslims in check too). There are those in Germany, Austria and Italy who are nostalgic for the days of Hitler and Mussolini but so much for nostalgia (not what it used to be).
"Perhaps you need to realise that people around the world have different ideals and goals" - same goes for yo, matey. You should realise that those who dream of a Socialist paradise are in a minority.
227

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 14:30:10
Horrible Cankers,
I see that your "FRIENDS" are really coming out of the woodwork tonight, must be tough to be so popular. Figured out the difference between 45 and 54 yet? Didn't think so! Why, 4+5, 5+4, they both add up to 9, how CAN there be a difference? Life's little mysteries eh? Should have attended math classes instead of trolling, too late for you now, Horrible Cankers. Much too late.
228

Mashimaro,

China 31/03/2008 14:31:00
Intesting that Taiwan is looking to join the dragon boat now.

ah well, sapre aude
229

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 14:33:21
You mean you still have'nt worked it our yet?

You have been busy but all you are doing is exposing yourself for all to see...your desperation is almost tangible mate...I am starting to feel sorry for you and feel I should not be pandering to your psychosis...I am after all, only feeding your delusions and anger...

Dragonhead go speak to someone...
230

Biker,

Ayr 31/03/2008 14:35:49
More obfuscation and smokescreen from the Chinese sector. The sooner you fools actual start to listen insted of wandering from the point the sooner
there will be acceptence of what we say.
P45 Stupidity and insults are not the way to progress a discussion, but then someone as self opinionated and blinkered as yourself wont see that as a problem.
Mashimara. Stick to the plot eh? wandering and meandering around such as you do give you less and less credibilty.
231

Biker,

Ayr 31/03/2008 14:35:51
More obfuscation and smokescreen from the Chinese sector. The sooner you fools actual start to listen insted of wandering from the point the sooner
there will be acceptence of what we say.
P45 Stupidity and insults are not the way to progress a discussion, but then someone as self opinionated and blinkered as yourself wont see that as a problem.
Mashimara. Stick to the plot eh? wandering and meandering around such as you do give you less and less credibilty.
232

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 14:37:31
#228 Mashimaro, Red China - "States that would have been communist if not for western interference" - Mere conjecture on your part. Hardly any of these countries had a Communist party of any size or significance prior to WW2 or is WW2 the "western interference" to which you refer?
"Those that ARE communist, incase you've forgotten" - Aside from the Peoples' Republic of China (as opposed to the Repubic of China), this reads like a list of "who's nobody" in the World. aside from that, only part of Cyprus has a Communist ruler (part of it is Turkish occupied) and even he has the inconvenience of democracy, which may remove him from power at the next election.



233

Polly Ann,

31/03/2008 14:41:17
236 HC

Troll
234

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 14:41:22
#230 Mashimaro,China - "Just in the last seven years there have been huge changes" - You mean the Communists have stopped killing and imprisoning those who do not share their view of the World? Still, I'd rather not take the chance just in case there is another "change".
235

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 14:47:25
James Donald,
and of course the whole world knows you. You say those countries are nobodies, so much for your human rights cause.
Biker, old buddy, old pal.
Nice to see that YOU don't insult anyone and have no stupid comments. If we all could only be as perfect and pure, oh, and innocent like you. Still got those training wheels on your bike? Thought so!
236

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 14:49:28
#232 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "he himself is filled with hate towards Communism and Communists" - You make this sound like a bad thing.
"He even admits to having had a Communist in the sight of his gun, posting #222, so there is a chance he may have pulled the trigger, only he knows for sure" - The sights on our guns had a magnification of x4; I wanted to have a closer look at the nasty Commie border guard coming to take my picture (he and his colleague had guns too but there was a big barrier in the way known to us as the Inner German Border and to them (at least in public) as the "Anti-Fascist Protection Barrier". So hard when you have to blindly follow a ideology, to get the terminology right. Still the dunce in the propaganda school then?
237

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 15:02:26
James Donald,
Yes James, hate is a bad thing, it completely consumes you, and prevents you from seeing that which everyone else can so clearly see.
And as my posting clearly shows, I in no way accused you of shooting the, and I quote you James Donald, "nasty Commie", I merely suggested that you may have, and that only you know for sure. By the way, I'm getting top marks in propaganda school, straight A's.
238

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 15:05:13
244....Actually I think you are sitting in a corner wearing a pokey hat with a big capital 'D' on it.....and we all know what the 'D' stands for now dont we boys and girls?....thats right..

Dragonhead
239

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 15:05:50
Horrible Cankers,
After thorough research, it pains me to tell you that there is no cure for dyslexia, people usually grow out of it, the key word here would be PEOPLE. You're welcome for the research.
240

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 15:26:37
#244 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - I have made it thus far with nought but hatred and contempt for Communists as I see it as an evil system. I see no reason to change because of a D- propagandist from a Communist state.
"I in no way accused you of shooting the, and I quote you James Donald, "nasty Commie", I merely suggested that you may have, and that only you know for sure" - I think you would have read about it in the newspapers "Evil Western fascist murders heroic Socialist soldier" or some crap like that. I don't have to look at German Border Guards through a gun sight now, just have them to dinner now they have seen the error of their ways.
"By the way, I'm getting top marks in propaganda school, straight A's" - Can't be difficult to shine in that school then.....
241

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 31/03/2008 15:35:48
James Donald,
Good to see that you've kept your sense of humour.
Can't be difficult to shine in that school then.....
Good humour, I like that.
242

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 19:11:48
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_gsIIQOBsY
243

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 19:16:34
#248 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - Since you are in a jolly mood, you may care to see some more from "lying Western journalists" trying to brainwash the oppressed masses in the West:

"Torture, hunger, mobile sterilisation units ... the brutal reality of Tibet 2008"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=549310&in_page_id=1811
244

Biker,

Ayr 31/03/2008 19:58:41
P45 #242 I dont actually ask for your appeasment in any discussion, but worth mentioning that it was in fact you who began with the sycophantcy and patronisation in a vain attempt to raise the temperature. Failed again eh little man?
I constantly asked questions and posed queries of both you and Mastermind but recieved nothing constructive. Waste of space and appologist lackey
245

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 02:35:00
#241 "Just in the last seven years there have been huge changes" - You mean the Communists have stopped killing and imprisoning those who do not share their view of the World? Still, I'd rather not take the chance just in case there is another "change". "

It concerns me that you don't seem to have any grasp of the Chinese sentiment, or how things happen in China. Might I remind you that your grand Chiang Kai Shek and the Kuomintang ran Taiwan as a single party state for 40 years. That little island executes more people per capita than China does. It brutally supresses any form of communism and always has - even before the communists had a chance to be "evil". But I guess that's okay as he and his murderous KMT were capitalist and greedy pawns of the US government.

You think your press's lying - note the revisionist copy coming out now - will do anything to change China? You are so very wrong. China will not be broken. It is changing, yes. As any country developes and changes. But if your press continues to pull these stupid publicity seeking lies and the west actualy believes them, China will really crackdown on those involved and you will see Tienaman was just a blip on the radar as far as bloody intervention is concerned. That is the Chinese way. We don't bow and lick the boots of our critics.
So if you do care about human rights as you pretend to, you need to look at a way of conserving what you have been given in China and not throw it all away on lies.
As you press has blatantly lied to you in this case, I would be most concerned that they could not be trusted in any copy coming out of China.
Yes, thank you, I know our press is mostly state controlled. That is not the issue here. I'm not in a tit-for-tat discussion. Of all the things, the media should stand for it should be truth. If they do not have truth they have as much credibility as our state managed mouthpieces. Do you even grasp that fact?
All history aside, this is the issue. Your reporters
246

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 02:36:49
I should also add that the KMT and its leaders have also brutally supressed any form of Taiwanese nationalism, so they weren't just picking on those who wished to be communist.
They also supressed the indigenous people of Taiwan who are not Chinese.
247

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 02:48:15
#239 Mere conjecture on your part. Hardly any of these countries had a Communist party of any size or significance prior to WW2 or is WW2 the "western interference" to which you refer?

er hardly mere conjecture. A matter of fact. I invite you to read up on the subject and discover the truth for yourself. If you have difficulty in finding some truthful sources I would point you in the direction of William Blum and his books Rogue State and Killing Hope. Mr Blum is a scholar who lives near the US library of congress so that as the US opens its restricted files to the public, he's right there to find out what they were really up to in the last 50 years. If only other countries had such a man. I would type in the relevant information myself but my books - as I have mentioned - are not with me.
Through Blum and other writers of his kind, I have personally wondered if the whole "COMMIE" thing wasn't just a huge hoax on the west in a bid to sell more arms once WWII was over. If that is the case it is indeed shocking. We already know that there was no need for the US to drop one A bomb on Japan. Dropping a second was just madness. We know their reason for doing it was to send a warning to the Soviets who were close to moving forces into the Asian theatre at the time. The thought is chilling that they would cold bloodely wipe out hundres of thousands of civillians on the strategic idea of stopping communism. But then again since then we've seen them do it time and time again in Asia, South America, Africa.
I can only urge you to read. You seem like a fairly intelligent person, and I respect that.
248

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 08:37:27
#252 Mashimaro,China - So boiled down what you are saying is that the whole of the "Western" i.e. non-Communist press is lying and only the Communists are telling the truth about China. Frankly, this is very unconvincing and I can assure you that there are few people here who will believe this for a second not because they are "brainwashed" but the exact opposite.
Your other point seems to be that China does not take criticism well and will create a blood bath for any opposition if we keep saying bad things about the glorious workers' paradise. Often there is no alternative when resisting an oppresive regime than to shed blood.
249

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

01/04/2008 10:05:06
"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger"

Confucius

and Mashimaro...
250

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 10:31:10
James - for about the 10th time now... The press lied on the Tibet "crackdown" do you at least have the backbone to admit that single fact?
251

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 10:32:42
#254 Mashimaro,China - Yes conjecture on your part, unless you have a magic crystal ball which call tell you what might have been. Removing western interference from these states may indeed have resulted in Communist governments in certain states, especially if Soviet interference was not also removed. I doubt if many of them would have survived for long without Soviet support.
I would urge you to read more but most of the books I would recommend are probably banned by your government.
252

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 10:34:38
#257 Mashimaro,China - You can mention it a thousand time (as Dr Goebbels would advise) but this does not make it a "fact". Communist propagandists are taught to lie as part of their training are they not?
253

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 10:57:46
Have you even looked at the reports?
254

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 12:45:30
Right, I'll take that as a resounding "no". Talk about arguing in bad faith.
255

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 01/04/2008 13:15:48
Mashimaro,
You might want to go to the international section of the Scotsman, today's issue, the headline reads Olympic torch relay off to peaceful start. It's on the 1st page of the international section.
256

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 13:27:10
Hmmm our reporters are saying that the Tibetans are planning suicide attacks. That should go down well. I wonder why the Mongols aren't doing anything.

FREE MONGOLIA - go on, I dares ya
257

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 14:26:01
#261 Mashimaro,China 01/04/2008 - "Right, I'll take that as a resounding "no". Talk about arguing in bad faith" - Sorry for the delay. I am not paid to do this on behalf of my government (unlike yourself) thus I cannot always post when it suits you like a performing seal.
I don't read Chinese so I can't read any reports in your press. Surely the Communists Chinese stae has an English-language vehicle for its propaganda?
258

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 14:28:17
#263 Mashimaro,China 01/04/2008 - "FREE MONGOLIA" - I once came across a chap working for the Deutsche Bank in London by the name of Ungern-Sternberg. If Mongolia is to be free (can't imagine anyone wanting to buy it after the Communists have ruined it), maybe I will ask him if he is busy.
259

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 14:28:38
To be candid I am so bored with the Olympics. We have had nothing else on our diaries for at least a year already.
260

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 01/04/2008 15:04:37
Mashimaro,
you really need to take a look at what those dimwits have to say in the commentary section of that article I referred you to at #post 262.
261

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 15:25:56
#267 postmark54,Chongqing, China - Yes, you need a little hand spouting your Communist propaganda. Pity nobody is being taken in by it.
262

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 15:33:27
264 I asked you if you had read the reports, meaning the lying ones in your own press.

mongolia has progressed quite rapidly since the communists have been there. Of course the soviets did a better job regarding education and such. It's pretty hard to soothe those beasts, which is why they are not being used as pawns by the west to smash the rest of China hmm.
263

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 15:44:18
#269 Mashimaro,China - Yes I have read some. Western journalists - another group I must add to the (rapidly growing) list of those you say are lying to me.

So you don't think the Baron will be welcome back in Mongolia - fine, I think he is happy with his day job at the bank. I had another friend (one of those lying Western journalists - but he only writes about tennis) who had the opportunity to see Soviet education at the NKVD HQ in Lvov in 1941. He must be lying to me too or does slaughtering prisoners with a shot to the nape of the neck (a Soviet speciality) count as education?
264

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 17:10:51
So the western reports that you have been reading about the unrest in Tibet, were they the ones who lied about their being a crackdown, did they miscaption their pics or judiciously crop the pics to make it seem as if they were something else?
265

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 17:20:28
#271 Mashimaro,China - Says you, but then Communists are no strangers at trying to manipulate the news and pictures for their own ends. The Communists first developed this "airbrushing of history" technique when they were purging themselves in the late 1920s and 1930s. Whatever Bolshevik bigshot had fallen from grace was airbrushed from party photos before the blood was dry.
266

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 23:30:50
272 Have you or have you not read the reports and seen the pictures?
267

Mashimaro,

01/04/2008 23:51:18
264 "I don't read Chinese so I can't read any reports in your press. Surely the Communists Chinese stae has an English-language vehicle for its propaganda? "

I would have thought that being the oviously intelligent man you are, that you might have found it already. It's called China Daily. www.chinadaily.com.cn not hard to find if you had had the brains to google china newspapers, hmmm.
268

Mashimaro,

China 01/04/2008 23:56:25
an apparent apology from BBC...

""There was NO military presence or military vehicles in Lhasa and NO insurrectionists were arrested by the police. Since nobody has been arrested so far, NO protesters has been put on any vehicles whatsoever. In fact, there were NO riots in T/bet at all. We now know (thanks to photos from Fox TV) that it ALL happened in Nepal."

Now that's what I call ACCURATE and UNBIASED reporting

269

James Donald,

Newbridge 02/04/2008 07:14:51
#274 Mashimaro - It takes me all my time to read the British newspapers without wasting my time with Chinese Communist propaganda (there is enough of that appearing here from you and your cohorts). The Red Chinese government must be nervous when it orders its minions to bother posting such propaganda on the site of an obscure Scottish newspaper.
270

Biker,

Ayr 02/04/2008 12:16:47
Marshmallo. Can you supply me with a link regarding this so called appology from the BBC? I somehow doubt you are telling the truth.
271

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

02/04/2008 16:00:30
267...heh heh heh heh he...P45...looks like auld Mushymarrow has been too busy to pick up on your warning sunshine...so you are on your own for the time being until he heeds your warning and hot foots it over to that story....to counteract the insubordination...heh heh heh heh

Or maybe that was him, deleting my posts where I named you as Dragonhead eh?..

Feeling a bit lonely on that section P45?
272

Mashimaro,

China 03/04/2008 07:32:50
Biker, you need to learn to read... I used the word "apparent" because I was not sure of my sources.
However, if you wish to see where the rumour started...
http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/viewthread.php?gid=2&tid=598536&extra=page%3D1
273

Mashimaro,

China 03/04/2008 07:34:17
#278 You obviously have me confused with someone who gives a care. I don't read most of the rubbish you post here as it is completely irrelevant.
274

Mashimaro,

China 03/04/2008 08:59:23
Jimmy D writes: "Mashimaro - It takes me all my time to read the British newspapers without wasting my time with Chinese Communist propaganda (there is enough of that appearing here from you and your cohorts). The Red Chinese government must be nervous when it orders its minions to bother posting such propaganda on the site of an obscure Scottish newspaper."

So many responses, so little time:

1) I couldn't agree with you more - so that should prove I'm not working for the government.
2) Just think, Chinese people do all that, and they do it backwards
3) It must be hard to complete a page when you've got to follow your finger.
275

Mashimaro,

China 03/04/2008 09:31:01
Oh dear, my UK friends... is it true that there are 4.2 millioin cctv cameras in your wonderfully free country?
276

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

03/04/2008 10:25:07
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-6-21/29682.html

Spying is not something alien to the CCP....you just use different tactics...even your own people...

Ah yes China...'Land of the free'.....heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh..
277

Mashimaro,

China 03/04/2008 12:40:57
(In the Modern Express Chinese newspaper tomorrow...)
A 60-year-old man has appeared in a Xiaguan district court in Nanjing accused of drowning his sick granddaughter two days after her birth on the way home from hospital, the Modern Express reports. Kneeling in front of the judge, the accused told the court that he had killed the baby because he thought “a girl dying at home would bring the house bad luck”, but he regretted his action
278

Mashimaro,

China 03/04/2008 15:21:58
Crampers, I'm just amused that the UK accuses China of the whole Big Brother thing and yet it has the most CCTV cameras spying on its population IN THE WORLD.
For your Info, Yahoo does more spying on Chinese than ordinary Chinese do.
279

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

03/04/2008 23:50:29
You bore me.
280

Mashimaro,

China 04/04/2008 03:57:41
Official figures now show that around 1,000 people were arrested in Lhasa, 800 of which voluntarily surrendered. There was a discharge of armed police's weapons in one province, during which 4 rioters were wounded. They fled into the crowd and the Peoples' Armed Police were unable to find them to offer them medical assistance.
281

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 10:54:22
For 'Official figures' read 'Lies'
282

,

04/04/2008 22:11:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
283

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

06/04/2008 14:28:16
XX
284

James Donald,

Newbridge 09/04/2008 12:51:55
#281 Mashimaro,China - So many responses, so few brain cells from the red peril. The only thing I have to do with my fingers is raise the middle one to you. Backwards indeed.
Have a nice day.......

 

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