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Police officers pipe up for rebellion

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Published Date: 23 June 2009
A REBELLION has broken out among members of a police pipe band after senior officers decided it could no longer perform at community galas and other events.
At least ten members of the Strathclyde Police Pipe Band have lodged an official complaint against senior management over moves they say will bring about the end of the 126-year-old institution.

The band's 15 police members are angry at a decision
taken by Chief Constable Steve House to require the permission of a divisional commander, Chief Superintendent Anne McGuire, to take part in charity fundraisers, village fêtes and other events.

That has resulted in the band missing a number of events in the past few weeks, including an annual taxi outing for disabled children and the Govan Fair. The band, which numbers about 40 in total and is made up of its 15 police members and civilian staff and guests, is world-renowned in piping circles. Last year it performed at about 20 events, but is struggling to cope with changes to the police members' shifts that make it much harder to practise.

The Scotsman understands ten members have put their names to an official complaint.

So far, efforts to resolve the grievances – which are being handled internally – have failed. Now its supporters are warning that the band will fold within a matter of months or even weeks, with morale among its members said to have hit the floor.

Last week, Chief Superintendent John Pollock told The Scotsman he believed it was time to call time on the band to save money. Sources within Strathclyde Police have suggested the band costs as much as £700,000 in officer time and expenses.

The band's supporters call that claim "ridiculous", saying the positive publicity and boost to community relations provided by the pipers far outweigh the money spent.

College of Piping principal Robert Wallace says the band costs about £30,000 a year – and insists it is worth every penny.

"Strathclyde Police says it believes in community involvement. What better way to engage with the community than with the pipe band?

"For 40 years they have taken disadvantaged kids on the annual taxi ride to Troon. They've taken part in galas across the force and are a highlight at the Govan Fair. Now the force has decided the band should not take part in any of these events."

Assistant Chief Constable John Neilson confirmed that "several officers within the pipe band have utilised the force grievance procedure".

He said: "As this is an ongoing process, I am unable to outline at what stage each grievance is at. However, work is ongoing in an effort to conciliate individual grievances."





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  • Last Updated: 23 June 2009 12:07 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

CRAGman,

23/06/2009 00:18:19
Keep the band - scrap the police
2

Fifi la Bonbon,

23/06/2009 00:23:05
Hmm. The Strathclyde Police Pipe Band is a great cultural institution.

Most of its performers are serving cops. The police force is going to have to find big savings. At present it appears that cops can walk off the job to perform, and are upset that they now have to get the permission of a senior officer to do so. Quite right too. Policing must come first, not piping.

The Scottish Arts Council should find the money it costs to run the pipe band. That would free up the pipers to do their cultural work and would allow the police force to employ more cops so policing isn't impaired.

The argument that the £30,000 or £700,000 the pipe band costs - doesn't anyone know for sure? - is good value from the PR point of view is self serving nonsense. Good PR for the cops is cops visibly patrolling places and keeping the peace.

Who's the minister for culture? Kenny McAskill should be knocking on her or his door and making sure the band is properly funded - not out of the arts budget, not policing.
3

uno.who,

Livingston 23/06/2009 00:32:51
Well said Fifi.

The article also says ... "For 40 years they have taken disadvantaged kids on the annual taxi ride to Troon. They've taken part in galas across the force and are a highlight at the Govan Fair" ... what it doesn't say is that this is all done in police time, whereas most people who support community and charitable events do so IN THEIR OWN TIME AND AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE.

These bandsmen lead a very easy life compared to their colleagues on the street (of whom there are fewer BECAUSE OF the band).

Welcome to the real world pipers! Council tax payers want you policing their neighbourhoods and not swanning around in kilts.
4

Fifi la Bonbon,

23/06/2009 00:39:42
I don't mind them swanning around in kilts. I want to make that perfectly clear. But I want policing money used for policing.
5

Daft Old Git,

23/06/2009 01:01:10
Get rid of the horses at the same time. Total waste of money
6

S'me,

Edinburgh 23/06/2009 01:04:19
Lovely as it is.... they are policemen... paid to be police.. It could go on... National Nurses Pipe band? Cardiac Surgeons Pipe band?
7

Canada,

Canada 23/06/2009 01:05:52
This is what happens when you feminize the police force and get a bunch of lassies trying to run things. Ever think what would have happen at D day if we had female participation. Dunkirk revisited. Sorry, my comment is sexist. Here endeth the right of free speach, serious discussion and common sense.
8

Graeme,

Guangzhou 23/06/2009 04:18:54
Great PR down the tube.
You people who sit at home will never get that! Me me me.

9

Anne,

Eaglesham 23/06/2009 07:05:47
D-Day did have female participation in the planning, Canada.

One of the ladies involved was interviewed on Radio 4 in connection with the 60th anniversary commemoration.
10

Tracker,

23/06/2009 07:23:51
I can understand the anger of the band - catch criminals or play a tune. I know which one I would prefer the taxpayer to pay me to do!
11

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 23/06/2009 07:43:57
Well as someone who served in Strathclyde Police many moons ago and trained with officers who joined the pipe band, I can say that they may have a less rigorous life but I don't grudge them it at all as they are very good PR for the force and part of a tradition that makes people feel closer to the police. I fear that this is yet another step to making the police into a faceless bunch of bully boys with little connection to the wider public. It all sounds very Common Purpose. Break down the ties that bind, shake society up, make everything stale and bland. It's very sad and disturbing.

Rest assured that the fat-cats at Pitt Street will still have their chauffured cars, plush office suites and paid junkets all over the world to 'study' other policing methods. There is still an over abundance of admin staff and civilian pen-pushers. The real method of getting more police onto the streets is to cut down the worthless bureaucracy that they have to fill out every time they park the car. Fifteen Officers! That's nothing out of 2700 or so. Less red-tape, more cops on the beat.
12

johnny come lately,

Esbjerg 23/06/2009 07:44:33
As a piper who plays to many international events i can easily say that The Strathclyde Police pipeband are worth their weight in gold when it comes to promoting Scotland and the name of Scotland.
Inside piping circles (internationaly)they are considered as the elite of pipebands around the world. If indeed the sum is 700,000 pounds then it is well worth paying. Why not take the money from MPs expenses at least The Strathclyde police pipeband are working to promote the people and traditions of Scotland. It will indeed be a sad day and the end of a proud tradition if they are forced to go to the wall.
13

Kenny A,

23/06/2009 08:20:09
A sad day when the pipe band go, not just for Scotland but for the international piping community, a handfull of officers who would probably be filling in forms anyway. PR disaster.

What next, the military bands. I have heard complaints about this in the past that soldiers should soldier not play music. Most military bandsmen double up as streacher bearers, a job I would not fancy.

The Edinburgh tatoo brings in a fortune to Scotland and the UK in general. To dispose of the Police band is just economic nonsense. Also dont forget the recruitment factor.

I dont know what amount of money is squandered by the civil services, police, politicians, but even if the band costs £700,000 which I doubt they are worth every penny.

A very sad fan of the pipes this day. The idiots who are thinking about binning the band should reaslise what it means to some people, the MacCrimmonds were blinded in order to play. The pipes are the only musical instrument ever to have officialy been declared a weopon of war. Men and woman have gone to their deaths with the last sounds they heard the pipes.

In India, Africa, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to name just a few they are pumping money in. Here wee are talking about dissolving a world leading band for in the scheme of things, nothing. Totaly hacked off at this one.

14

JimC,

Kilmarnock 23/06/2009 08:30:51
The band's 15 police members are angry at a decision
taken by Chief Constable Steve House to require the permission of a divisional commander, Chief Superintendent Anne McGuire, to take part in charity fundraisers, village fêtes and other events.

So who did they have to ask before this change?
15

Iain Mac,

23/06/2009 08:40:36
Police first. Music is a pastime and hobby.
16

James (1),

23/06/2009 08:58:44
The police service is full of time wasting. Those in the pipe band are not promoting anything, they do it because they enjoy it and get off doing real police work under the guise of having to attend this or that function.
No, it is time the police focused on what they are there for and playing the bagpipes is not one of their core functions.
17

Ash,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 09:32:59
To suggest that the Officers from the Pipe Band spend all their time playing Pipes and Drums is simply wrong and a touch insulting. These Officers dedicate only a small fraction of duty time playing at community events and the rest is rightly spent on FRONTLINE OPERATIONAL POLICING. I see them regularly in Glasgow City Centre.

Mr Pollock should really do his homework before he goes bleeting to a national newspaper in which his comments were factually wrong and degrading to the Officers concerned. If he wants to highlight real abuses of taxpayers money within Strathclyde Police then he is opening a can of worms here. Unjustifiably expensive company cars for senior officers etc etc, the list is endless.

For a Chief Superintendent of Strathclyde Police to publicly humiliate a group of his dedicated and committed officers is a disgrace. In fact the Chief Constable should take Mr Pollock to task for this outburst. Do you think for a minute past Chief Constables such as Sir William Rae or Sir John Orr, men of great integrity, would have stood for this unprofessional smear against officers that have done nothing wrong? I think not.
18

James (1),

23/06/2009 09:42:32
#19 Any time a police officer, during working hours, is playing pipes instead of doing real police work is a waste of police time.
Of course they want to keep this pipe band going. What is the alternative? Doing real police work!
So I would suggest you stop getting all indignant about a practice that previous Chief Constables should have nipped in the bud.
Time change as do priorities. The Police band is not and never will be a priority.
19

Clive Hamblin,

South Coast 23/06/2009 09:53:36
If the Strathclyde Police are anything like our local Police, they could make sufficient savings elsewhere in order to retain this remarkable Band (Just look at almost any 'incident;' a copper arrives and starts to deal with things. Shortly afterwards half a dozen others turn up who stand about watching and wondering where they can get a free cup of tea. Get it sorted Strathclyde Police. Police your district properly and retain a Band which you clearly don't value.
20

Lang Spoon,

Leith 23/06/2009 10:24:59
I would like to know just how much time off normal duties each policeman gets?
Having a band is fine, but to compete at this level requires many hours of practice, travel etc.
The men themselves are probably effectively part-time, and should really be out on the beat where they are needed.
The band could be filled with competent players, possibly unemployed or retired, not fully trained policemen, and subsidised by police funds.
21

Scotty F,

The Borders 23/06/2009 10:33:35
You guys are talking alot of Bull!!! Most of the money that pays for the pipeband coms from the Police officers own pocket in the Sport and Rec society that coms straight off their payslip at the end of the month, other areas of funding come from donations, performance fee's and SOME not ALL comes from the Police services own pocket. As always the police get slack for whatever they do wether it be positive and constructive (such as this issue) or negative. These officers are still representing the force and reaching out to communitites in a traditional scottish manner making policemen and women look human and normal.

Why are the Armed Forces allowed to have pipebands and sports clubs and the Police are not??? Oh i forgot the SNP have cut police pensions, wont be forthcoming in commuation payments and wont expand Tulliallan, now i see where the savings to pay for the "extra 1000 officers" come from the policemans own pockets!!

CHEAPSKATES!!!
22

Kenny A,

23/06/2009 10:46:09
Am not going to go against anyones comments here but, Strathclyde pipe band have brought much to the force and country.

The Army forced you to have sports days every wednesday afternoon like it or not. The Army was not fighting someone every second of the day. I am sure the police are not banging up villans every second. Otherwise it would be to dangerous to breathe never mind walk the streets.

I cannot argue some time when they could be policing is spent practicing but look at the overall benefits. Its only a handfull of people. Talanted, dedicated and wishing to serve in more than a uniformed capacity.

Lets be honest about matters how much time does a policeman spend policing. This is not in any way an insult but there is just not a crime every second per policeman. More time is spent on b"£$%^lls56it paperwork. I have heard this from the men in blue and it is a real issue, not saving between £30 and £700 thousand PA.

Some differences in opinion, let them get on with policing but at the same time do not destroy a proud and also profitable institution.

I know many are not fond of the pipes but who can deny they are iconic. Even where I am this decision has raised eyebrows as to its plain lack of foresight.
23

Kenny A,

23/06/2009 10:51:25
Scotty

Did not see your post before I fired mine of but the forces will also lose their bands if this goes ahead.

Lang Spoon, I thought the whole issue was about saving money and keeping officers on the beat. Its a police pipe band, they are not unemployed and as for money from police funds I just do not get this. The retired part I buy into. Sorry mate.
24

The Rattler,

The Borders Piper 23/06/2009 10:54:20
Scotty F, as another Borderer, I can confirm that you are the one talking Bull! The serving police members of this band have had it too easy for too long. Practices and engagements all in their work/shift time, meaning that they get paid to play.

It's about time they joined the real world and enjoyed their craft in their own time, just like any other pipe band (army excepted). I can't see the problem if they have to operate the same as all the other police bands in the country. They are just a little peeved that their preferential treatment has ceased!!!
25

W Smith,

Middle East 23/06/2009 11:14:08
So what about the Strathclyde Fire Brigade handing out pro-gay literature.

So that's okay then, eh?
26

James (1),

23/06/2009 11:19:37
#23 Which part of Sport and Rec does the pipe band fall into? I know it is not a sport so it must be the recreation side that you are speaking about? So they want paid for their recreational time? That must mean that all the contributors to this fund are paying for the pipe band to go off on their jolly, leaving them to do actual police work?
By all means keep the pipe band but in their own time. This minority past time is being funded by everyone but the actual participants. Time for it to go I think.
27

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 23/06/2009 11:26:32
#19, Ash; fair point about top of the range company cars. Not many people know about the nice little tax-dodge enjoyed by Very Senior Officers. Lothians, Central and no doubt Strathclyde and the others provide cars for private use, fitted with concealed 'blues & twos' so they are officially 'police vehicles'. They COULD be recalled for 'operational duties, if required' but I've never heard of that happening. Very Senior Officers deem themselves 'on duty' the minute they leave the house, so taxable 'private mileage, to and from work' doesn't come into it. A former ACC from Lothians used 'his' car for 'long-distance commuting' to Humberside, where he kept his family home, while the late and unlamented Paddy Pumpkins is even rumoured to have taken 'his' top-of-the-shop Range Rover on family holidays to France.
28

Jorrox,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 13:53:44
I'm not fan at all of pipe bands, polis or otherwise. But I'm supporting the Strathclyde Band for one reason. CC House came here from London to make his mark by sorting out the jocks. Strathclyde has been turned into a mini-Metropolitan Police. He has shown no regard whatever for the Glasgow/Strathclyde way of Policing.

I hear he is due to go back to the Met soon. Taking a mickey mouse job at the Olympics is more attractive, allegedly, then running Strathclyde.

This about more than pipe bands. Its about the way in which our biggest police force is being run. Whatever anyone thinks of policing in Scotland, we are miles ahead of the Met.

29

Kenny A,

23/06/2009 14:17:40
30 Jorrox, Sorting out the Jocks, think it has been tried before. Banning tartan, the Gaelic language and the Pipes all failed miserably in previous times.

When all is done and dusted they will be playing the pipes in heaven, Strathclyde may be in the other place.

As they say the Devil has the best tunes.

Jorrox, liked your post.
30

Mosspark Man,

Govan 23/06/2009 14:33:55
The Strathclyde Police Pipe band is excellent but given a choice I would rather have an extra 15 coppers in uniform patrolling the streets of Glasgow.
31

danbob,

23/06/2009 16:05:39
If the bands supporters are so concerned, why not put your hands in your pockets, pay the extra council tax to cover the cost of employing extra overtime cover, whilst they are off blowing into their windbags.
32

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 23/06/2009 16:15:11
Don't worry everyone, everything will be fine. The top brass have been on a Common Purpose training course or two, (at enormous expense to the tax payers), and they are doing this for your own good. Dumping all this cultural rubbish cleans the slate so we can have a new EU state with no cultural differences and big brother will provide all your needs, (daily medication, enforced vaccinations, 24 hour rality TV and chat shows, etc. etc.).
See the video here to see what I mean:
http://cpexposed.com/archive/videos.php?video=common_purpose_update
33

Joe Plaice,

23/06/2009 16:15:49
Danbob's a tool!
34

Brianwci,

23/06/2009 16:49:02
#1 CRAGman: Keep the band - scrap the police

A true LOL moment.

#2 F la B: Policing must come first, not piping.

Yes, but an essential element of policing is PR. Police must be WITH the public otherwise they are AGAINST the public and for too long the gap between police and public has been growing.

Thus the value of the Police Pipe Bands. They are an essential link with police and public wherever they play.
35

Fifi la Bonbon,

23/06/2009 19:02:34
#36 - I think that the best PR for police is arresting criminals and putting down crime. I like pipe music. I am a great admirer of this pipe band. I want them to stay in business. But people like me who like the pipes are probably not the ones who require a PR service on behalf of the cops.

If people in this country want to see professional police officers playing the pipes during working hours, they should make sure that the money to recompense the police comes from an arts or culture budget, not a police budget.

Separate from that - I was staggered to read that police officers seem to have been able to walk off the job and perform at the Govan Fair or the Garngad Gala without seeking permission from a senior commander. Mr House was right to impose what would be basic discipline anywhere else.

In fact, from what I'm told, he seems to be getting a lot of office-bound cops out of their lounge suits and into uniform pounding the beat. Good for him! If these are the fancy London ways #30 is so worried about, then let's have more of it.
36

danbob,

23/06/2009 21:13:22
Joe Plaice talks twaddle. There are many great pipe bands around, A lot are better than the Strathclyde windbags. However unlike the Strathclyde keystone cops they practice and play in their own time. This lot wants the taxpayer to pay for them to play. Also Joe boy before you start harking on about culture, the bagpipes were invented in Persia.
37

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 24/06/2009 12:02:32
As usual Danbob can be relied upon to be full of hot air. Posting drivel again Bobdan. Of course there are many bands but this one happens to be one of the best in the world and a credit to the force that supports it. If the players were split up and put on different shifts, it would be almost impossible for them to get together and practice/play in their own time or any other time for that matter. Since this decision makes absolutely no sense we can be fairly certain that their is another agenda behind it, not saving money as that could easily be achieved in other ways and they could raise funds by selling CDs, etc. No, this is to further demoralise the police, reduce their image and cut an important tie to the greater community. The police are already dressed like Moseley's black shirts, it's only a matter of time before they are full time government bully boys who will be used to keep the increasingly angry populace in check. I fear that Brian Gerrish has got it right and that we are at war with the EU and their anti British agenda.
38

yerkiddin,

fife 29/06/2009 01:36:15
Joe plaice, get a grip.
Maybe other forces CCs could give advice to Strathclyde on how to make cuts and keep pipe band.
Wonder what the rest are cutting. Very senior officers' cars maybe?

 

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