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Published Date: 24 August 2009
By Lesley Riddoch
TODAY'S Holyrood debate on Megrahi's release should be a pivotal moment for Scotland. It should allow us to hear MSPs at their most thoughtful and forceful as they tackle a decision with moral, political, economic and social consequences.
It should contain argument, eloquence, feeling and logic. It should contain surprises as MSPs from all sides buck "party lines" to express their own individually held beliefs. It should depart from the same high point reached in the near-ubiquitous p...



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 August 2009 10:16 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Darien,

Panama 24/08/2009 00:44:48
"It should contain argument, eloquence, feeling and logic."

From New Labour? You are optimistic.
2

Jimbo2,

24/08/2009 01:12:14
It has now emerged that the Saltire flags being waved at the airport by the crowd awaiting the arrival of Megrahi in Libya were supplied by the British Embassy in Tripoli at around the time MacAskill was speaking in Edinburgh.

They were obviously made aware before the rest of us that Megrahi was to be released.

They were also making sure by supplying Saltires for the mob that the message put across by the media was only to damage Scotland.



3

Brianwci,

24/08/2009 01:14:10
"It should contain argument, eloquence, feeling and logic."

The opposition will be in full howl today and their Brit Nat pals in the so called Scottish Media will report their words and actions as statesmen like.

But they won;t have the courage to demand MacAskill's resignation for fear that will be turned by Salmond into a confidence vote in the Government, which it effectively would be.

So apart from someone winning the Golden Howl Award nothing of any note will happen.

I can't wait.
4

Brianwci,

24/08/2009 01:16:01
Jimbo2 this is a very important piece of news but it needs to be verified.

Do you have a verifiable source e.g. a link to a decent paper like the Times?
5

Jimbo2,

24/08/2009 01:17:12
Labour in Scotland don't have individually held beliefs. They oppose the SNP just for oppositions sake.

Gray said that if he was First Minister, Megrahi would not have been freed.

Mealy-mouthed Gray was lying for narrow minded political gain.

Blair's 'deal in the desert' is well known. It is a fact that Blair and Brown have wanted Megrahi freed for some time now. Had Gray been First Minister, Labour in Scotland would have done their London master's bidding - just as they always do.
6

scotnotbrit,

camelon 24/08/2009 01:17:48
lesley riddoch ? of the hectoring tone ? that only allows people to talk for more than a few seconds if they have a contrary opinion , in the hours after nine eleven i phoned to say without justice for palestine there would never be peace for the world , i got the lesley treatment , belittling comment and cut off . a year or so later she was advocating the removal of Abu Amar (arafat) and his replacement with the psychopath mo dahlan . again when i tried to offer an analysis of that particular amerikkkan creatures character , i lasted mere seconds before i got one of lesleys "witty" blow offs . cowardly radio hosts talking about "argument , eloquence ,feeling and logic " you could laugh if you didnt have to live in the same country as her
7

Fletty,

24/08/2009 01:24:00
#2
Dunno if what you are saying is accurate, but, I remember my 1st thoughts when I seen that footage was "where the hell did they get those Saltires from?".

Did Big Gordi scribble on the back of that letter to the embassy, "p.s., take those 3 big Scottish Flags out of the cupboard and dish them oot at the Airport. I'd help ye but I'm busy watching the cricket at the moment and re-runs of Gaza's goal.".
8

Traquìr,

Alba 24/08/2009 01:24:26
I wonder if the Scottish Parliament opposition parties will raise any issues beyond just partisan attacks on the SNP.

Here are a few valid ones that they must surely want to know the answers to ?


1. Why was Megrahi's appeal dropped ?
Megrahi's appeal to the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission in Sept 2003 and have 3 and half years of exhaustive research they concluded that an appeal was valid due to even the most basic dates of evidence being wrong and new evidence had not been presented amongst other items. Even with Megrahi dying the appeal could have continued posthumously so why was it dropped ? The appeal findings can be found here.

http://www.sccrc.org.uk/ViewFile.aspx?id=293

2. Why is a public inquiry being resisted even to the extend that Miliband has used a public interest immunity certificate that prevents disclosure to al-Megrahi's defence of this potentially crucial evidence ?

http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2068681.0.miliband_has_made_lockerbie_appeal_a_mockery_of_justice.php

3. Why did unelected Lord Mandelson not only meet Gadaffi's son in the last couple weeks, but also discussed the Megrahi case ?

tinyurl.com/nw9mk9

4. Does Gordon Brown agree or disagree with the decision to release Megrahi on compassionate grounds ?

5. Why did Westminster, unlike the Americans, refuse to provide a submission as requested by Kenny MacAskill ?

6. What pressure did Westminster try to inject into these proceeding ? One letter has already surfaced which attempts to push for a release.

7. What would be the consequences of Megrahi dying as a Marytr on Scottish soil ?

These questions and more should be part of any real investigation here. Anything less is nothing less than Witch Hunt come Spanish Inquisition which will truly make a mockery of the Scottish Parliament.
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

24/08/2009 01:46:34
#2,#4 - this story is being spun by Mediawatch, an outfit at Strathclyde University infiltrated by the Scottish Islamist Foundation, No respectable news organisation has reported it.
10

Fifi la Bonbon,

24/08/2009 01:48:55
I look forward to reading Lesley Riddoch's comments on her website in due course but no way am I paying thirty quid to do so!
11

Edward,

24/08/2009 02:26:29
#2 Jimbo2
Do you have a source for that claim?
If it were true,it would be absolute dynamite!
The idea that the British Embassy was fully informed well before the event and to dish out Scottish flags would have repercussions
12

redcliffe62,

24/08/2009 02:35:30
so salmond may resign if vote goes against him.
by the time there is an election the full role of brown, mandelson, blair, the civil service and the oil companies will be out.

for labour in scotland to cry foul when they were in it up to their necks when a prisoner swap deal was agreed, without a peep of protest, tells me that salmond has the info to relase the facts on this.
megrahi has obviously told macaskill what happened. macaskill is not saying.

but the role of the states and labour in london can be emphasised, particularly if it turns out an appeal is ignored by london who would be too scared to participate.

salmond can call brown and blair and london cronies pty ltd to the enquiry and they will not have the b**** to turn up. that will tell everyone in scotland they have something to hide. again, just like the last iraq war. no reason the snp cannot suggest that an appeal to find the truth cannot continue, with new evidence being accepted. will labour in scotland vote against that.

if salmond turns round and says he has all the facts now from all parties involved and thinks an appeal is warranted as he has the facts on what happened and who was involved in subterfuge and the people have a right to know who was the real instigators that would cause chaos.

the yanks have gone for shock and awe tactics, a country where compassion is rare against their own ciotizenry let alone against the free world who do not wish to be "democratically" usurped, but their role will come out in thois, all this for oil and tacit support against iraq in the first gulf war.

i therefore think labour in london know that if they have a go at salmond he will spill the whole story, including who is guilty. and the role of wastemonster to do a deal with prince andrew and bp on the back of it.

i believe gaddafi junior more than i believe millipede and cyclops. as will most people when the facts are known. a trade deal based on aprisoner swap which the u.s. did not
13

redcliffe62,

24/08/2009 02:36:57




(continued.....)
i believe gaddafi junior more than i believe millipede and cyclops. as will most people when the facts are known. a trade deal based on aprisoner swap which the u.s. did not even worry about. and meanwhile mccain is in libya now trying to grab a share of what bp is getting for the major u.s. oil companies.
nothing changes does it? it is about oil, imperialism and realpolitik.
14

redcliffe62,

24/08/2009 02:40:04
i agree we need fcats, so we need to know where the saltires came from, they did not look home made. like those u.s. flags you used to see being burnt in the middle east on occasions, along with effigies of bush.
15

Fifi la Bonbon,

24/08/2009 02:58:11
#11, #14 - the story is being spun by an antisemitic organisation. Being spun quite well I must say, so no doubt it will get reported somewhere, and will need to be constantly refuted. As if the Libyans couldn't just order a few saltires from a shop in the Royal Mile.
16

Haverheid,

24/08/2009 04:01:14
#15

So what you are saying is, it's true.

Constantly refuted? Is that not what the Labour Party always do with stories that can damage them? Even when they are true.
17

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 24/08/2009 04:23:37
The Scottish Government have made a complete mess of this affair, and the "Opposition" are trying to make political capital when we all know it is very very likely they would probably have did the same.
Now we have weirdo posters wondering where the Saltires came from and even inferring they were planted by the British Embassy, maybe they were given to Megrahi by the hapless MacAskill when he was summoned to Greenock prison or to the Mad Colonel's son by the Malignant Mandelson.
18

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24/08/2009 07:00:33
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19

Phil C,

24/08/2009 07:15:23
They weren't proper Saltires. The white cross was far too thin. Must've been home-made.
20

TWC,

exLabour 24/08/2009 07:41:58
The Scottish opposition are Nauseating and Elmer Fudd and Malawi Jack are the very worst of the Scottish Labour political system.

They were in hiding when a decision was required, in fact big Gordo is still in hiding while he works out what to say.
21

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/08/2009 07:45:30
19
That's exactly what I thought too.
22

Linda,

Edinburgh 24/08/2009 07:56:56
Can the pygmies that occupy the opposition benches at Holyrood not realise that the decision was taken by a lawyer adhering to Scots Law.

Only they have politicized the issue and brought shame to the Scottish Parliament.

Richard Baker is no lawyer and knows little about Scots Law.
23

LEAL,

24/08/2009 07:58:22
Heard Mike Rumbles (lib/dem) and Richard Baker (lab)on the radio this morning saying how disgraceful it all is.Bill Aitken (tory) joined in.Almost glad to hear a Scottish voice.Looks like we're not going to hear Broons Scottish voice(because he's too scared and dumped his accent anyway)Baker was saying how Mandelson says the Brit govt are as clean as a whistle.Who should we trust? Mandelson (unelected leader of Uk govt)?Or MacAskill (not a creepy slimey lowlife)?
24

TWC,

exLabour 24/08/2009 08:04:02
There's a lot of information being held back about Lockerbie and if the Dam breaks it will take a lot of reputations with it.
The Scottish MSPs should have handled this quietly not all jumping in with attacks on MacAskill.

The Libyans say they have information to release we need to wait and see that.

On the flags; who knows? they looked kinda thin but they all seemed to be exactly the same which suggests they were bought.
25

Le Ecossais,

France 24/08/2009 08:06:34
Shame on the Opposition, McConnell and cronies jumping on the American bandwagon. MacAskill got it right, leave the power politics out of it, it is a question of law and we Scots should be proud that our system recognises and allows for the concept of mercy and compassion, unlike some other legal systems one could name.
How about McConnell and Brown showing some back-bone for once.
I am always proud to be Scottish and especially so this last week!!
26

Tynietiger,

24/08/2009 08:07:06
Iain Gray's wise after the event comment that if he was First Minister he would not have released Megrahi (Evening News 21 August) illustrates why he is totally unfit to hold high office and is at odds with his Westminster masters.

Under Scots Law, the courageous decision taken by Kenny MacAskill had to be a legal one and not for the First Minister to make for any political advantage or consideration.

Since 2007, the Labour government in London has been desperate to release Megrahi. Libya applied for the transfer of Megrahi under the UK/Lybia prisoner transfer agreement on 5 May, why else did Jack Straw, the UK justice secretary, rush through the ratification of the prisoner transfer treaty, warning that a delay would damage relations with Libya?

On this issue Gordon Brown and his government has no moral compass.

And lets hope Richard Baker and Mike Rumbles will never become Scotland's voice to the world.
27

Tynietiger,

24/08/2009 08:18:36
Embarrassing for Labour, Henry McLeish has just said Kenny MacAskill took the right decision for the right legal reasons and it is wrong for opposition to politicize the matter.
28

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 24/08/2009 08:31:51
Megrahi could either have been released to a secure place here in Scotland where his close family could have visited him outside of prison or returned to a Libyan jail, which was still an option as far as I can tell from all the commentary.

MacAskills decision has now set a very dangerous precident which raises the bar on compassionate release cases in a way that no case has ever done before.

As someone whose family lived through the Dunblane massacre in 1996, having a daughter at school in primary 6 that day, I know the impact that crime had on us as well as the families of the victims killed. I very much doubt if Mr MacAskill would have had the "moral courage" to release the perpetrator of that crime had he developed prostrate cancer whilst serving out his sentence.

Hyopthetical situation I accept, but put yourself in the affected families shoes for one moment and then you might understand the wrath now coming from the other side of the Atlantic.

It was a naive decision and one that will have untold repercussions both at home and abroad for Scotland and its people.

A line has to be drawn for sure and woe betide us as it now falls on the rest of Scotlands MSPs to restore some sense balance to a now increasingly unstable situation.
29

TWC,

exLabour 24/08/2009 08:34:07
The real problemis that the attacks on MacAskill are poorly judged and are making things worse.
There needs to be measured discussion because whatever is said the decision was his to take by law and I'll bet he followed the rules.
If the Law says it's his decision that makes whatever he decides right.
30

,

24/08/2009 08:39:32
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31

,

24/08/2009 08:41:08
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32

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24/08/2009 08:44:21
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33

steve52,

Kinfauns 24/08/2009 08:55:55
31# exposing north british lies. I would have to say that you are a perfect example of south British idiots. Where have you been? Myra Hindley is DEAD. So you are correct that it would not work politically for the Home Office to release a dead woman.......

Dont like McAskill but he got this one right.

#28 Liberal for life. Where have you beeen? This is NOT a precident as it has always been the case that any person in care of HMP can apply for release on compassionate grounds if they are dying. I am NOT aware of anyone being refused......under any serving governemnt.

Compassion is part of our legal system and the Government should not interfer with the Courts.

When the army Major pled guilty to shooting his wife and child with a shotgun the trial judge was ordered to let him walk free by the Conservative Government at the time. The judge stated this several weeks after the case ended......Compassion?
34

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 24/08/2009 10:31:44
What is there to debate ?

Megrahi was released in line with policy.

Of course that doesnt suit everyone but Holyrood has had ample time to debate the policy while it was being created.

Horse.... stable door ... bolted.
35

mr broon,

Edinburgh 24/08/2009 11:02:12
What concerns many about the forthcoming Holyrood debate on al-Megrahi's release is that Salmond, who dominates the chamber, will make sure he intervenes to protect his Justice Secretary and, in reality, there are very few Unionist politicians who can stand up to this Nationalist bully.

Salmond always shouts down his opponents, and continually fails to allow a fair and open debate,
especially if things are going badly for the Scottish Government.

I just hope some of these Scots Unionists can find the guts to stand up to Salmond, or world observers will
wonder about the calibre of the Opposition?
36

TWC,

exLabour 24/08/2009 11:19:16
35 mr broon,
It isn't a debate there is no come back on the answer.
I will be a statement followed by question & answer.

The whole thing is being overly politicised and that is wrong, the funny thing is I think the majority support KM decision and more people are doubting the original sentence.
37

scotnotbrit,

camelon 24/08/2009 11:28:22
#35 i have re-read your post , and still cant figure if you are being heavily ironic or not bright enough to realise what it is that you are saying .....Salmond is too good for the rubbish the unionists can get to stand ! we normally win the debates ! i can see how that could annoy a unionist
38

wee weegie,

24/08/2009 11:39:48
Let me get this straight. Ian Gray would not have released him! So either he would not have allowed his Justice Minister to reach an impartial view/conclusion OR he would have gone against his Masters wishes in Westminster. I dont think so.
39

Queen D,

24/08/2009 11:49:26
Myra Hinley is dead is she not??
I thought Brady was the only one of the pair still above ground.
40

Itsanobrainer-Vote SNP,

24/08/2009 12:08:00
Quite sickening to see this being turned into a political point scoring free for all. For the record, I am an SNP supporter who does not agree with the release of Megrahi. That doesn't mean that I will no longer support SNP, or think we should now not have independance or that I am ashamed to be a Scot

I firmly believe, and I don't think anyone can seriously disagree that, this decision was made without any consideration for political advantage. I know we're not used to it, but I suspect that the decision McAskill made was because that is what he thought was morally and legally correct. No axe with the bullying USA or Westminster, just an honest decision. Not something we are likely to see too often in UK or American politics. As for Gray, how would he have known what he would do if he had been FM, no-one at Westminster would have told him yet! Nice that he didn't make his feelings be known before McAskill announced his decision. Hedging his bets as usual. Spineless puppet
41

DollyDimple,

24/08/2009 12:35:36
Only way forward today for the Scottish Government is to come out with all guns blazing. In which case I hope they leave McAskill in a cupboard somewhere because some of his statements have raised even more questions about the appeal and about why so many elsewhere knew the decision beforehand. Labour and the Lib-Dems need to be exposed today for insulting all of Scotland by using this issue for all in the most disgusting Party-political manner. Their utter failure to demand answers on behalf of all of Scotland about Lockerbie is shameful. The fact that Scottish Labour people are at the forefront while their own political masters are in this up to their necks makes their position even more shocking. Lesley Riddoch wants eloquent? She can stick eloquent. I'll go for plain speaking today: nothing else will do. We have had enough lies about Lockerbie, about Megrahi and about dodgy deals. It is time we had nothing less than the truth.
42

InThePark,

24/08/2009 13:12:18
boycott MacDonald's! - they have a Scottish sounding name.
43

peter1958,

Glasgow 24/08/2009 15:05:52
It's a lovely day. Not as nice as last Thursday though.

What is the problem with you nats? Your man MacAskill sends a convicted terrorist and murderer of 270 people on his merry way- having had a wee cosy chat in secret - and now you seem at a loss to understand why other folk might be a wee bit annoyed you give succour and comfort to terrorists worldwide with your shennanigans.

Largely, I suspect, MacAskill hates the USA so much he would have gladly have driven the Libyan to the airport himself.

So now you invesnt your stories about the where the Libyans sourced their saltires and start your usual troll tactics.

But no matter how hard you try you will be known forever as the party that released a convicted killer of 270 people including an 11month old baby and an 82 year old man.

Are you happy now?
44

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 24/08/2009 16:33:36
@28 "Megrahi could either have been released to a secure place here in Scotland where his close family could have visited him outside of prison"

The opposition keep wittering on about this. Can someone, somewhere please explain to me how it would have been any better? Why is it an improvement that he takes up a bed that a Scottish person needs? Why is it an improvement that scores of police officers are diverted from more important duties to guard him? Why is it better that WE have to pay for it?
45

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 24/08/2009 16:35:48
@45 "released a convicted killer"

Evidently the important thing as far as you're concerned is that he was convicted. The important thing to decent people is whether he actually did it or not. We're hardly short in this country of people who were convicted of murders and subsequently cleared. Mr Megrahi didn't have enough time left for that.

 

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