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Nationalists 'in meltdown' as second candidate forced to quit by-election race

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Published Date: 13 July 2009
By ROSS LYDALL
POLITICAL EDITOR
THE SNP's bid to win the forthcoming Glasgow North East by-election descended into chaos yesterday when a second candidate was forced to quit.
James Dornan, who was only selected last week, stood down after revelations that he may have breached Scots charity law by acting as a trustee of a Glasgow council sports and culture trust while he was effectively bankrupt.

Labour accused the SNP
of being in "complete, utter and total meltdown".

The SNP had turned to Cllr Dornan after the party's first choice, Grant Thoms, another Glasgow city councillor, was forced to step aside after having questionable internet postings exposed.

Cllr Dornan defeated former BBC reporter David Kerr to become the by-election candidate, although SNP critics claimed that Mr Kerr was in fact the favourite of party leaders.

No date has been set for the by-election, though Labour is believed to be delaying the poll until November to prevent it falling during the summer holidays. It has chosen Willie Bain as its candidate.

The vacancy arose after Commons Speaker Michael Martin was forced to quit as an MP after being embroiled in the Westminster expenses scandal. Although the Speaker is independent, the constituency is nominally a safe Labour seat.

It emerged yesterday that Cllr Dornan, the SNP group leader on Glasgow City Council, had signed his assets over to an insolvency practitioner in October 2004 and remained insolvent until December 2007.

But upon becoming a councillor in May 2007 he was appointed an unpaid trustee of the council's charitable arm, Culture & Sport Glasgow, potentially breaching the law barring an undischarged bankrupt from being a charity trustee.

Cllr Dornan said yesterday said he had acted in "good faith" but had decided to step down as the SNP's parliamentary candidate. He said: "In doing so, I want to make clear that I am not ashamed of having experienced financial difficulties in the past. Many people know only too well how that feels.

"I am not prepared to allow this issue to overshadow the by-election or to be exploited by Labour as a distraction from the real issues of the campaign. Labour has let the people of Glasgow and Scotland down.

"This by-election is a chance for people to focus on the issues that matter and to elect an MP who will fight their corner."

The SNP said it would move "immediately" to select a new candidate.

But Paul Martin, Labour MSP for Glasgow Springburn, said: "The SNP campaign here is in complete, utter and total meltdown.

"On Sunday afternoon they were delivering leaflets saying James Dornan was their candidate. Now they have no credibility left. To lose one candidate is a crisis, but the SNP have lost three in a row. It is beyond words.

"They are treating Glasgow with contempt and taking people for granted."





The full article contains 483 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 July 2009 9:19 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Gorach,

Oban 13/07/2009 00:05:00
Complete meltdown - what a joke
Get back to reality labore

The only entity that has been treated with contempt and taken for granted is Scotland.
2

Soosider,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 00:14:52
Clearly this is not a good situation for the SNP, questions must be asked about the vetting process for his selection, not the least of which is was MR Dornan completely honest about his situation. Having said that he has stood down which is the correct thing for him to have done, this at least compares positively with the behaviour of some other elected representatives whose conduct has been found wanting.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 00:25:53
I do think it's a shame that Mr Dornan felt compelled to resign as candidate for the Nationalist Party.

A relatively local man, I understand that he was by far the strongest choice amongst party members in the local constituency, who were unhappy that the former BBC broadcaster Mr Kerr seemed to being bounced into the position by the party bigwigs in Edinburgh. Indeed Mr Kerr took things so much for granted that he took redundancy from his job. It seems as if the politburo aren't as up on conditions in the West of Scotland as they thought.

Now the Nationalist Party is inevitably going to be subject to many of the catcalls and criticism applied to Labour at the Glasgow East by-election when they found it necessary to change their candidate. I shudder to think how the commentators who were so scathing of Labour's position then will react when they heat about the Nationalists' loss firstly of Mr Thoms, the original candidate, and then the rejection of Mr Kerr, and now the loss of Mr Dornan.

I wonder if, perhaps, just possibly, the now redundant Mr Kerr might be persuaded to present himself to the activists in the constituency? And what pressure Edinburgh might put on the activists who so very recently gave Mr Kerr the bums rush?

4

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 00:29:07
#6, Rufus.

I see that they've changed your medicine, again; different persona, same nonsense.
5

Brianwci,

13/07/2009 00:32:36
"Nationalists 'in meltdown'" ?!!?

The Brit Nats are going ballistic. Poor loves it's the first real thing they've had to shout about since Glenrothes and that was the first real thing since May 2007.

The laugh is had they done the honest thing and called the by-election at the soonest possible moment then the SNP could have been in trouble selecting another candidate in time, not to mention thousands of useless leaflets and posters.

As it is by November their new candidate will be well bedded in and heading for the winning post. Looks like smooth David Kerr is back in the frame.

Meanwhile Brit Nats, have fun, you have so few chances these days.
6

DialMforMurdoX,

13/07/2009 00:34:00
#7 'Nationalist Party?' Do you mean the Scottish National Party?

Supreme irony from Paul Martin, decrying a political opponent for standing down where there might be allegations of financial irregularity against him, particularly when this behavious is compared to Mr Martin's honourable father the shamed former speaker of the House of Commons.

I dare say Mr Martin jnr, is still upset at not being allowed to fulfil his fathers wish for the Martin dynasty to continue representing Glasgow North East at Westminster.

7

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 13/07/2009 00:35:03
Javier Barden If an SNP candidate had to break wind in a public place the Labour deadheads would jump at it as an affront to public decency. That is how desperate they are to try and sideline the deep excrement they are in with Gray, Brown, Darling and of course Lord George Foulkes (not to mention the "Curtain Raiser" sitting in the Lords). A disgraced Speaker, an international criminal, Tony and all the expenses dodgers and you claim the SNP is "in melt down"! Let him who has not sinned cast the first stone! Well Labour should start throwing rocks! They have lied,cheated and broken every manifesto promises since 1997 and that is not mentioning "The Wars".
8

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 00:35:10
#7, Fifi.

Just for once, could you try to get something,......anything, right!!!

At the Glasgow East bye-election NuLabour was not forced to change its candidate.

It had enormous difficulty in finding one. I believe that 4 or 5 people were approached but turned the opportunity down.

Fifi, you really are a silly billy!!!
9

,

13/07/2009 00:37:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

The Strategist,

13/07/2009 00:41:54
It seems to me that James Dornan has acted in an entirely honourable manner by deciding to pull out once he realised that he possibly - not definitely - breached Scottish Charity Law.

It's not often you find candidates with such a high level of personal integrity.

11

Willie Mor,

13/07/2009 00:43:38
Many many people get into financial difficulties for a variety of reasons, and so it seems did Mr Dornan.

Like many many others faced with this difficulty he took proper steps to avoid bankruptcy and repay the debts.

However, as has become clear, opposition parties in the Labour movement have used his previous indebtedness and creditors arrangement as a stick to beat him.

Although Mr Dornan has done nothing to be ashamed of, as opposed to the many who have defrauded millions in expenses and taken illegal bungs,he has unfortunately done the right thing in standing down, since this issue would have been used to dog him repeatedly throughout the campaign.

But on a more serious note - when is Mr Brown going to allow the people of Glasgow North East an election or are they just going to be left without an MP until such time as Mr Brown thinks he can gain the most party political advantage.
12

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 00:43:48
#13 - I do think it is extremely unpleasant to see the way that Nationalist supporters are turning against Mr Dornan. Those were very Nasty comments you made about him. I hate to think what pressure will be put on local Nationalist activists to select Mr Kerr - if I were one of them the least I would do is screen incoming phone calls.
13

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 00:50:14
#15 - I am sure that you willl find few people on the Labour side so unsympathetic as to criticise Mr Dornan for the difficulties he got into. There but for the grace of God. And I hope those on the Nationalist Party side, like #13, will stop it now.

More generally, the Glasgow East by-election was the occasion of some extremely unpleasant personal and sexist abuse directed at certain candidates. I hope that this will not continue in this by-election, and that perhaps the proprietors of the newspaper which so generously offers us the opportunity to make comments will moderate more ruthlessly than was the case then.
14

Willie Mor,

13/07/2009 00:51:24
Oh,and this article seems to be today's anti-SNP headline.

Meltdown indeed, my my, my!

Surely the Scotsman doesn't believe that if it keeps coming up with outrageous headline against the SNP that their readers will believe what they say.

But as the election beckons one can see the Scotsman headline getting hoarier and hoarier.

Salmond eats children raw despite claiming food allowance would be a good one. And no comments allowed either. Ho ho the Scotsman will educate us all.
15

DialMforMurdoX,

13/07/2009 00:51:52
If you click on the link entitled "More Scottish National Party >>" on the right side of the page.

It takes you to 83 pages of stories about the Scottish National Party. They go all the way back to April 2002 and it can be honestly stated as fact, that over 99% of them are negative stories based on labour propaganda and smears. This article further cements the accusation that the Scotsman is no more than a Labour rag, useful for only distributing negativity, lies and spin.
16

Vivas,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 00:52:16
Champagne all round at The Northbrit's political desk. Well maybe warm Lambrusco given the state of the paper.

However SLAB felt no urgency to hold the by-election and now this could act against them. If they now suddenly feel however that Glasgow NE has a "democratic deficit" then they have to move quickly. Lets see if they're as cynical in bringing it forward as they were in delaying it to begin with. Heres the story on the date...

"...if the writ was moved before or on July 21, when the Commons breaks up for the summer recess, the by-election would have to be held within 21 days in early August. Labour officials in Glasgow are opposed to an early date, saying that it would clash with the end of the school holidays. They fear a repetition of last year's Glasgow East by-election held in late July, when the SNP overturned a 13,000 Labour majority.
If the writ was not moved by July 21, politicians would have to wait until Parliament came back in October. Under this scenario the first available date would be early November."
17

redcliffe62,

13/07/2009 00:53:12
a politician who has done something questionable resigns.
now would there be another 400 at watemonster who should do similar given they operated to a lower level of integrity?
18

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 00:53:20
I do wish that Rufus would stop deleting himself as he's such an asset to the cause of Independence.
19

Castaway™ ,

13/07/2009 00:53:23
FIFTH choice candidate (Magaret Curran ), Labour Party to contest Glasgow East by-election.
The constituency party was forced to resort to its fifth choice candidate after four senior party members refused the Prime Minister's personal pleas to stand. 06 Jul 2008
20

Cracker06,

Livingston 13/07/2009 00:55:51
Having problems with selecting a candiadate is hardly a case of a party being in 'meltdown' - I do wish newspapers would stop sensationalising every story that comes across the desk. No wonder reporting throughout the UK is held in such contempt.
21

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 00:58:09
#10 - 'Nationalist Party?' Do you mean the Scottish National Party?

We have got into an annoying trend in Scottish politics where every part operationg in Scotland seems to find it necessary to describe themselves as the "Scottish Whatever Party". We are all in Scotland, so surely we can drop the "Scottish" when talking among ourselves? Since the "National Party" is the Nationalist Party, but hasn't quite suceeded in making itself the sole national party, it seems better to talk about the Labour Party, The Nationalist Party, the Tory Party, etc. You don't get the Tories complaining about being called the Tory Party even that isn't strictly their official name, so let's call them by their real names. There are some tiny fringe parties like the BNP and the SWP ans the SSP and the CPB (ML) and so on but they don't count any more.
22

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 01:02:45
19
DialMforMurdoX

"This article further cements the accusation that the Scotsman is no more than a Labour rag, useful for only distributing negativity, lies and spin."

You got that right. This whole story is a fuss about nothing. There may have been some unintentional minor infringement of obscure regulations. Despite the triviality of the whole thing, James Dornan has acted honourably and in the best interests of the party and the constituency. He is to be applauded.

Doubtless lessons will be learned that will inform the vetting process in the future. But we need to ask ourselves, what do we expect of our elected representatives and candidates for public office. If something as vanishingly insignificant as what Dornan has been accused of is a barrier to candidacy, it is going to be next to impossible to find any candidates.

Other, that is, than the ones who are adept at concealing genuine misdeeds.

23

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 13/07/2009 01:03:35
i expect we'll be getting the election date this week as labour sniff the slighest chance of a result. goes to show how far labour have fallen, when their worried about keeping "safe" scottish seats.
24

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 13/07/2009 01:05:25
Trying to give The Scotsman some credence makes me remember my early days when Andrex was only for the rich and famous. If it continues with its abuse of "journalism" and can only criticise the SNP then it should be relegated to the only Andrex we could afford viz. squares of the local journals cut to size and attached to a piece of string on the cludgy landing door.
25

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 01:08:19
If you don't like it, why do you read it and comment in it?
26

famous 15,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 01:09:29
The Scotsman wins the Zimbabwe Herald prize once again for printing nonsense as if it were Holy Truth. Gadzooooks!
27

hoblar,

13/07/2009 01:14:26
That fifi guy above is a bot of a sky rocket for reasons best known to himself no doubt.

One main article has as a headline that some tory says the SNP 'are talking rubbish'.

The next one has some member of the nohope labour party speculating that the SNP are "in meldown".

Som comment by a nohope is the headline in both cases, and the headline is merely the 'opposition' in Scotland, a bunch that deserve our derision for 'delivering' us the stale unfit for purpose calman commission.

They should hang their heads in shame, and their SNP in meldown hopes are not shared by the elctorate I bet.

No matter what the negativity pushed by the Scotsman, the Glasgow constituency of thew shamed Labour MP Michael Martin is up for grabs by the SNP, there is no counting chickens going on in spite of the arrogance of Labour in this headline.

This paper should rename itself the Daily Record.

28

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 01:15:40
#29, Fifi.

You really are stupid, aren't you?

You should know that lies aren't nice and that people who tell them should be exposed.

Perhaps I'm being a tad hard on you as you semm to lack discernment.
29

,

13/07/2009 01:17:23
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30

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 01:17:50
Seriously, if you don't like it, why do you read it and comment in it?

One cybernat after another queues up and slags off the Scotsman for saying disobliging things about the Nationalist party, but why not go somewhere else and all mutter and mumble and agree among yourselves? There's all sorts of weblogs and forums you could do that with. Remember Our Scotland, set up by that man in Falkirk? By all accounts that should be buzzing with all your pent up patriotic wrath, but it's all gone.

Admit it, you secretly like the attention.
31

,

13/07/2009 01:18:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
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32

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 01:18:28
32
Cynicus in Exile

It was the Tory/BLP cabal that had the freak deleted. It was an embarrassment.

33

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 01:19:48
#32, Cynicus...........

It is my honest belief that Rufus (Javier Barden) had himself deleted as there was nothing in his comments that breached JP rules.

His comments were his normal inanity.
34

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 01:20:19
35
Fifi la Bonbon

"Seriously, if you don't like it, why do you read it and comment in it?"

Somebody has to throw a spotlight on the lies and distortions. Such dishonesty should not go unchallenged.

35

,

13/07/2009 01:23:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
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36

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 01:24:18
#36 - thanks for asking.

I comment because I have positive and useful things to say to a nation that urgently needs the wisdom and guidance I have to offer, and a fresh and original analysis based on wide reading and keen knowledge of the Scottish scene, together with a flair for language and trenchant wit. I am able to offer insight and intelligence on a wide rane of topics, ranging from penal policy and cultural affairs to local and natioal government.

I also don't have to go into work too early tomorrow.
37

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 01:25:49
#39 - what you mean is http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
38

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2009 01:26:37
#40 - more like a souflee, then.
39

hoblar,

13/07/2009 01:30:50
I don't belive it is up to some bitter unionist if people within Scotland wish to comment on any newspaper article.

It is the decision whether to comment or make a comic remark with the lowering standard of journalistic integrity and real news reportage with the noble aim of informing the inhabitants of Scotland.

In the case of this article and some of the other 'headlines' the Scotsman has on line, some of the articles themselves are basically daily record styled comedic buffoonery, and any punter who wishes to say so is entitled to put in their tuppence worth I reckon.
40

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 01:33:09
#41, Fifi...............

You know something? Your eulogy could have been written by AM2, sm753, Rufus, Grahamski, Gordon, Lard Fookes, et al about themselves.

As I have already said you show a distinct lack of discernment and, as such, will fail to see the humour in your comment.
41

Am Fògarrach,

13/07/2009 01:33:27
15 & later Willie Mor

You are absolutely right. as soon as I read the sane and balanced article in the Sunday Herald at http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2519484.0.0.php, I knew the Monday Scotsman would be frothing at the mouth along with teir Labour buddies.
42

,

13/07/2009 01:33:55
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43

,

13/07/2009 01:38:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
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44

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 01:47:10
#49, Cynicus.

So that we could talk to you........who?
45

hoblar,

13/07/2009 01:51:21
"So that we could talk to you........who?"

Er, Yoohoo back?

You have to trail through so much unrelated chatroom kak to post in the comments box that you have to scroll back up to remember what the actual article was about.

More like.
46

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 01:51:51
49
Cynicus in Exile

I was being facetious. The fact is, none of us know why any comment is deleted. Or who prompted the deletion. For anyone to say it was this or that individual who did it is complete nonsense.

As, of course, is the reference to "CyberNazis".

47

,

13/07/2009 02:02:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
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48

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 02:08:32
I think the SNP should go for broke, and select a Monkey with a tartan rosette as the bi-election candidate.

The look on the faces on the vanquished Unionists at the count...would make the 300yr wait seem almost worthwhile.
49

langtonian,

uphall 13/07/2009 02:21:01
As coffin nails go,this latest debacle of SNP organisational incompetence,is another in a series of fatal hammer blows to their being able to continue as a minoity Govnerment at Holyrood, come the next election in 2011.
50

drunken proffet,

Tassy 13/07/2009 02:25:07
Nationalists in meltdown. Candidate forced to retire. Glaswegian double decker bus spotted on the moon. A matched set of three slightly exagerrated statements.
51

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 02:32:37
56
langtonian

"...a series of fatal hammer blows to their being able to continue as a minoity Govnerment at Holyrood, come the next election in 2011."

A triumph of woolly-minded wishful thinking over stark reality.

52

Publius,

London 13/07/2009 05:42:15
I don't see the problem. Dornan has many of the qualities we have all come to expect in MPs from Glasgow - shady past, possible bankruptcy, eye on the main chance. The SNP should be proud that they have now reached the high standard long set by the Labour Party. A great pity Dornan has stepped down....but I'm sure the SNP will find another candidate just like him.
53

The New Scirocco,

On the rise 13/07/2009 05:58:33
People are People and surprise surprise do human things.

The Colonels and Majors of old blighty should beat it and leave Scotland to the Scots and if we do stuff up at least it will be our own selves to blame not much of an argument for Home rule but there it is.
54

donald,

glasgow 13/07/2009 06:34:14
Labour has created lots of bankrupts and is attempting to criminalise them. Labour has created lots of Peers, despite the original Scottish Labour Party's manifesto to abolish the House of Lords before being abolished by the British Labour Party from London.

The snide headline is pure wishful thinking from a mouthpiece that is hiding the facts surrounding David Marshall and other Labour crooks. Quoting the discredited man in tight's son as a charcter witness says little for the Northbristishperson's journalistic standards. Is the NUJ ethics Committee riddled with nepotism too?

There is no "meltdown". Normal selection will take place in plenty of time to allow clear blue water to take place between the progressive policies of the SNP and the reactionary dishonest, warmongering, money grubbing Team GB Labour Party that has run Springburn and the whole of Scotland into the ground. Just send a photographer to take a look at the old dilapidated Springburn Town Hall at the corner of Gourlay Street and Springburn Road and the Union Jacks allowed from the nearby Orange Halls on public lamposts amid a rural desert. Both sides of Labour's loyalist Old Firm MPs are as proud of the Butcher's Apron as Jim Murphy is of strutting on Tanks on George Square.

No doubt he would have backed English tanks in George Square in 1919.
55

Unionist Voice,

13/07/2009 07:11:09
66. Rules

great post! Of course, you stating - "If SNP wants to be taken seriously (less than 8% of electorate supported it as euros) "

could of course be hideously misconstrued, given the SNP got the highest vote in the Euro elections.... using your figures 6% supported Labour and 4% the Tories.....Who can take them seriously?

or are we just reporting the SNP vote as % of electoral roll vs actual percentage of those who voted? I get very confused as to which of our Unionist counting schemes we are on at any given moment! £5000 tax bill!
56

John S,

13/07/2009 07:12:20
#66 Rulesbutnotrulers:-
SNP total votes cast
2009 EU elections 29.06% (321,007)
2004 EU elections 19.67% (231,505)
Increase 2004-09 85,502

2007 Scottish Parliament 32.9% (664,227)
2003 Scottish Parliament 23.8% (449,476)
Increase 214,751
57

Unionist Voice,

13/07/2009 07:12:59
66. If only the SNP had more people who

- expensed duck islands
- expensed home porn
- expensed monacled drain covers
- claimed for non existant mortgages
- went badger spotting
- got sacked for dodgy home loans and dodgy passports for dodgy donors
- resigned for "muddling" expenses for sub-leasing offices
- resigned for illegal donations


they might not seem so werid...!
58

,

13/07/2009 07:13:31
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59

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 07:13:39
What are the bookies saying about the by election????
60

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 07:14:22
SNP in Meltdown ,if that is the case I am sure our lords and masters in Westminster will move the writ today for the by-election.

Like nobody wants Independence so we wont have a referendum the Unionists say one thing and run away at every opportunity.

to use rabs phraseology
cowards is cowards
61

Unionist Voice,

13/07/2009 07:15:00
68. John

no banana! As Rules said, the SNP will not be taken seriously just because it gets the most votes in Scottish parliament, European and local government elections, or has the most MSPs and councillors of any party!

We Unionist know our onions! And we know that only Unionist parties who get far less votes than the SNP should be taken seriously based on their electoral strength!
62

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 07:17:00
Will Jim Devine, Michael Connarty and David Marshall be canvassing for New Labour Sleaze at the forthcoming by election???

After all they're 'working class' socialist heroes!!
63

Unionist Voice,

13/07/2009 07:19:07
74. I believe they are helping Eric Joyce pick out new oil paintings, so will not be able to attend.
64

,

13/07/2009 07:20:57
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65

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 07:24:32
James Dornan’s mistake, if indeed there was one at all, appears to be of a rather obscure technical nature, and there is no suggestion that he made any financial gain from this.

On the contrary, there is every indication that he was motivated only by his own “public spirit” by allowing himself to be nominated as an unpaid trustee of “Culture and Sport Glasgow”.

This organisation is itself a rather unusual concept, being effectively the former Leisure and Recreation Dept. of Glasgow Council, which as an elected councillor; Mr Dornan would have had full access to all policy and expenditure decisions.
Becoming a trustee of the “charity” merely allowed him that same access.

Is “Culture and Sport Glasgow” really a “charity” in the legal definition of this word?
66

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 07:25:28
This by election will be a perfect opportunity for John McVicar, ex GHA board member, to begin his rehabilitation as a New Labour Sleaze activist, after his sacking from the GHA after being found to have fraudulantly claimed benefits for over 18 months.

Can we expect to find him handing out leaflets????
67

donald,

glasgow 13/07/2009 07:25:43
Route 66.#

Labour IS the British National Party.
68

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 07:26:52
#78 Tam,

How remiss of me to forget Lord Watson.

Ideal man for the victory bonfire celebrations!!
69

Melly,

Dunblane 13/07/2009 07:31:35
#58 Electric Hermit. Langtonian is actually correct. What he has realised is that the SNP will not be able to continue as a minority government as they will have an overall majority ! Glad Langtonian has seen the light.
70

John S,

13/07/2009 07:39:50
#66 Rulesbutnotrulers - Memberships
SNP
2009 - 15,097 (January 1)
2003 - 9,300

Northern branch of the BLP
2008 - 18,146
1997 - 30,083
71

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 07:45:27
Dornan is just another in a long line of SNP supporters who sees that his route to financial security is also the route to Westminster, The Parliament that they protest to hate.
Hypocrites!
72

Colkitto,

River Clyde 13/07/2009 08:06:37
Hopefully this clears the way for David Kerr to be selected.
He should have been the candidate in the first place.
If the well known articulate Mr Kerr is chosen, I can see the SNP taking this seat.
73

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 08:12:59
Who will be in charge of postal voting for New Labour Sleaze this time????
74

,

13/07/2009 08:13:05
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75

,

13/07/2009 08:16:17
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76

gus1940,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 08:31:11
The word 'Meltdown' would be more appropriately applied to the standard of what is laugably passed off as journalism in JP self-styled 'newspapers'.

Also applicable to the survival prospects of JP.
77

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 08:38:16
Meltdown ?
Believe that if the writ is issued from Westmidden today.
78

John S,

13/07/2009 08:47:04
Glasgow North East, by-election why the delay ?
19 May 2009, Mr Martin MP for Glasgow North East said that he would leave his post as the Speaker on June 21 2009 (resign as MP).
5 June 2009, John Gibson MP for Norwich North resigned.
21 June 2009, Mr Martin MP for Glasgow North East resigned
23 July 2009 - Norwich North by-election to be held
12 November 2009 - Glasgow North East by-election to be held ?
79

TWC,

exLabour 13/07/2009 08:48:06
Spin Spin Spin all for Labour.

The Nats could put a Donkey up and still win this seat, Labour are unelectable, and have yet to propose a single policy for Scotland.
13th August is it???

I hope the polis are watching the postal votes - just in case.
80

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/07/2009 08:59:19
Oh lummy, aren't the cybernats just wonderful? The bitter bile spouting forth suggests that they know they are going to get a doing in Glasgow North East.
I'm particularly pleased that they have learned nothing from Glenrothes and continue with their delusion of being 'cheated'.
81

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 09:03:57

Isn't it curious that this information only came to light when the SNP leadership's preferred candidate wasn't selected?


Who briefed whom about Mr Dornan's financial difficulties?

82

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/07/2009 09:06:04
95
....but surely Mr Salmond's lot wouldn't brief against Ms Sturgeon's lot?
This sounds horribly familiar...........
83

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 09:06:43
Two things.

First Mr Dornan - like George Ryan previously for Labour, has been forced to stand down because he has been found out by the press as being a human being. Not a snout at the trough, not dishonest, and not a ''bad person''. If we carry on like this we are going to end up putting cardboard cut-outs up for Office because real human beings won't be allowed.

Secondly - Mr Dornan was nominated for his position on the body running Culture and Sport by Glasgow City Council, and was accepted by Culture and Sport without any questions being asked to trigger off any doubts about his status. As he is entirely legally acceptable both as a Councillor and as a prospective MP I think he should have been made aware that the same rules don't apply to Charitable organisations.

He has not been personally at falt here, and neither in my opinion was George Ryan before him.

Both men have been forced to withdraw their candidacies because of the press and their respective parties beliefs that the baying mobs who read the press would have condemned both men without giving them a chance to explain.

Sadly their parties are probably right.
84

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 09:08:20
Stan/Grahsmski it was the double act of Tom Gordon and Paul Hutcheon at the Sunday Herald who ''broke'' this. Nobody briefed them, they don't need briefed - they are bloodhounds.
85

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/07/2009 09:12:34
98
"Nobody briefed them, they don't need briefed - they are bloodhounds."
How naive are you exactly?
86

TWC,

exLabour 13/07/2009 09:13:37
Graham & Stan, you don't really believe Labour are going to win this seat, c'mon they are in meltdown

Economy
Expenses
Calman
Afghanistan
the Banks
and that's at the UK level, Labour is non-existent in Scotland

Taxi to Parkhead please
87

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 09:17:16
100 twc

No doubt the gnat goons at mediawatch will be urging their fellow gnats to clean up by putting a bet on the result.

Like they did at Glenrothes.

How much did you lose?
88

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 09:20:18
Could it be that a pork flu pandemic in the UK could result in Comrade Broon declaring marshall law and cancelling next years election????


Comrade Broon will do ANYTHING to hold onto power
89

mr broon,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 09:20:55
What is it about Glaswegian politicians, of whatever Party, who make their Tammany Hall counterparts look like saints?
90

langtonian,

uphall 13/07/2009 09:21:01
Figuritvely, compilations of arcane numbers,presented aden-finiteum are in most case constructed to present a false overall picture of any given situation.

SNP supporters are well ahead in any league table of figure massager's,it's one area they are the bee's knee's-top of the pops

A little advice- It is a proven fact that any long series of figures included in communications,immediatley loses about 50% interest of it's target market-figures bore the pants of people.

In the case of the SNP read-kilts of people.
91

TWC,

exLabour 13/07/2009 09:21:29
101 Stan Butler,

I didny bet on the Nats Stan(hey a palindrome)nor will I.
I happen to think that the Labour Party have not done enough to regain the trust of the Scots and they are going to get a doing.
92

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/07/2009 09:22:29
100
Just as a matter of interest, why do you question the legality of the postal votes in Glenrothes when the SNP were in charge of the authorities responsible for ensuring that legality?
93

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13/07/2009 09:27:11
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94

,

13/07/2009 09:27:30
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95

George Mackay,

Dundee 13/07/2009 09:31:17
86 Colkitto

Hopefully this clears the way for David Kerr to be selected

NO! No traitors who work for the London BBC.
96

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 09:31:46

So how exactly did the information about Dornan 'emerge'?

Was it from Kerr or someone higher up the food chain in the SNP?

I think we should be told.


97

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/07/2009 09:33:14
110
Has Kevin Pringle cut his holidays short?
98

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 09:41:19
111 MACGREGOR DESPITE THEM


Yes this is indeed brilliant news for the SNP, a political master-stroke that will ensure victory.

And of course is no indication of infighting and skulduggery within the party. No sir. Not at all.


99

TWC,

exLabour 13/07/2009 09:41:28
106 Grahamski,Falkirk

Just having a bit of fun Graham, I think the postal votes WILL get a lot of attention this time if for no other reason the loss of the records was embarassing, even if it wasn't suspicious.

I still think the Nats will win this seat though, unless as Mr Milliband says and make a few really big changes in policy.
100

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 13/07/2009 09:45:52
Shock, Horror! An honest man holds his hand up and says "I made a mistake so I withdraw". Labour and their press supporters don't understand what is happening, They've never been in the wrong :o)
101

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 09:46:07
#92

"Glasgow North East, by-election why the delay ?"

I would think the SNP are delighted that the by-election has been delayed. They appear to be having great difficulties in finding a candidate, so they are lucky its not being held in late July!
102

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 09:52:02
I love the last comment from Martin boy jnr what a friggin hoon, contempt...

Maybe the slabbers on here can tell me why the by-election hasn't been called yet, the By-election in Norwich has been, why the long wait?
103

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 09:52:26
#68 John S:

SNP total votes cast:
2007 Scottish Parliament 32.9% (664,227)
2009 EU elections 29.06% (321,007)

Percentage decrease: 3.9%
Number of votes decrease: 343,220
104

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 09:53:33
106 Hilarious.
105

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13/07/2009 09:53:43
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106

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 09:55:06
#114

"I think the postal votes WILL get a lot of attention this time if for no other reason the loss of the records was embarassing, even if it wasn't suspicious."

Yes the loss of the records was extremely embarassing for the Scottish Courts Service who oversee Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court, and consequently for the Scottish Government, whom the Scottish Courts Service are an agency of.
107

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 09:55:14
119 Did the SNP get more votes at this European election than the last one? European that is.

So did there share of the vote go up or down?
108

Herry Oaksters,

13/07/2009 09:58:31
But Paul Martin, who has been feeding off the taxpayer all his working life just like his fat da Labour MSP for Glasgow Springburn, said: "The SNP campaign here is in complete, utter and total meltdown.

Labour scum surley are desperate. I dont think Martin has a clue of how stupid his comments make him look. ,labour are a sick joke a corrupt party of liars and scaremongering pigs.
109

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 10:00:05
122. Jesus that is seriously dillusional, I mean if you think that. You do know there is a difference between the political direction and the running of the SCS?

It was more than deeply embarrasing, it opened up the can of worms that is postal voting in Scotland and the problems with the C&C of said postal voting.

The fact that this has never happened before in Scotland tells it's own story, however at the next general election we will find out if the postal voting had an effect or not.
110

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 10:02:25
121 You live in England so how do you know that? Going on what is in the hootsman?
111

John S,

13/07/2009 10:03:15
Q: Why, then, have the Labour Government moved for the quickest possible timetable for a by-election in Glasgow, East, corresponding with the Glasgow fair?
A: (PM) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would be complaining if we had waited to have the by-election. It is right that the constituents of this area of Glasgow have a new MP as soon as possible. House of Commons 2 July 2008

So Gordon it is also right that the constituents of Glasgow North East should have a new MP as soon as possible ?
112

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13/07/2009 10:07:28
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113

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 10:12:04
128 Nope it stayed the same, you do know that Scotland's MEP represntation dropped from 6 to 5 don't you?
114

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 10:12:39
#123

"Did the SNP get more votes at this European election than the last one? European that is."

Yes but considering the last Euro election was 5 years ago it would be more relevant to compare the SNP's votes to the last election they fought - the 2007 Scottish election.

Did the SNP's vote percentage and number of votes decrease or increase between 2007 and 2009?
115

Phil C,

13/07/2009 10:14:15
'Meltdown'........They wish!

The Scotsman should use red rosettes instead of quotation marks in it's headlines.
116

Ewan M,

13/07/2009 10:14:16
Some SNP supporters continously go on about the Labour party corruption while refusing to accept the SNP's Mps while scamming the expenses system themselevs. Alex Salmond was claiming food on expenses when he wasn't even in London..........hardly gives him the moral high ground. How hypocritical can you be?

Is Salmond working for Scotland today trying to support Diageo's job or is he getting more 'TV time' to massage his ego?

Or how about wasting the former head of UK anti terrorism - once again putting his ego ahead of everything else.

There is one thing Alex Salmond cares more about than Scotland and that is himmself( and his belly)

117

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 10:14:28
#136 Any sane person would compare like with like?

Are you getting treatment???
118

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 10:18:00
129, 134 What SLAB not completely honest and upfront with folk what never!

I am shocked next you'll be telling me that Gordon Brown is a son of the manse with a strong moral compass who doesn't lie!
119

Publius,

London 13/07/2009 10:18:31
#103 mr broon, Edinburgh

Your write "What is it about Glaswegian politicians, of whatever Party, who make their Tammany Hall counterparts look like saints?"

Good question. Glasgow politicians always follow the same five point plan:
1. What's
2. In
3. It
4. For
5. Me?

Emburgh politicians don't always do this, because they are so close. It may be due to Presbyterianism: Brown (not you) says it is the son of the manse syndrome. Me, I think I think it's due to an.l retention, like Sigmund Freud said.
120

Herry Oaksters,

13/07/2009 10:20:06
Is there no end to labours sleaze and corruption, right across the poxed union labour continue to steal from the taxpayer.
http://tinyurl.com/kooylq
121

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 10:20:56
139 It hate to break this to you....


Your favourite telly show Torchwood it's not real I am afraid, it's only a very good sci-fi drama.

Sorry to tell you that but I think it's better that a dillusion like that needs to be addressed.
122

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 10:22:48

So who WILL be the SNP candidate?

Will it be someone the leadership (ie Fat N'Eck) approves of?

I rather think it will.


123

John S,

13/07/2009 10:27:37
#119 Yeah1,
Scotland EU 2009
Turnout was 1,104,512 or 28.52% (- 2.38%)
SNP 321,007 29.1% (+9.4)
Labour 229,853 20.8 (-5.6)

Scottish Paliament 2007 election
Turnout was 2,016,978 or 51.8% (+2.5)
SNP 664,227 32.9% (+9.1)
Labour 648,374 32.2% (-2.5)
124

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13/07/2009 10:29:17
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125

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 13/07/2009 10:34:52
"Nationalists 'in meltdown' as second candidate forced to quit by-election race" - it must bring a nostalgic tear to Labour's eye when they remember Glasgow East, and ended up with Maggie Curran

At least there is plenty of time to select another candidate.
126

John S,

13/07/2009 10:35:32
Glasgow East by-election.

It is understood Mr Brown initially telephoned Steven Purcell, the 35-year-old leader of Glasgow City Council, begging him to stand.

But Mr Purcell, a rising Labour star, was unwilling to swap control of Scotland's largest local authority with sitting on the Commons backbenches, especially with the prospect looming of years in opposition.

The Prime Minister is then said to have called Lesley Quinn, the former general secretary of the Scottish party, but this overture was also rebuffed.

Frank McAveety, a MSP whose Glasgow Shettleston constituency at Holyrood overlaps with Glasgow East, also declined the offer.

Fourth choice was George Ryan, a local councillor, but he shocked the party by failing to attend the selection contest on Friday night, forcing the postponement of Labour's campaign launch the following day.

Margaret Curran, a local MSP, has been parachuted in but has indicated that she has no plans to resign her Scottish Parliament seat and will be a part-time MP.

127

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 10:37:14
#146

Yes I was probably being disingenuous highlighting the massive drop in the number of those voting SNP between 2007 and 2009 considering the turnout at the Euros was so low.

However what the turnout does not affect is the voting percentage - the SNP got 32.9% in 2007 and only 29.1% in 2009 - a drop of almost 4%.
128

drunken proffet,

Tassy 13/07/2009 10:40:49
At the end of the day it does not matter too much what canditate is put up for election. Find someone who can look after those guys, it does not matter too much if he is pretty or not.
129

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 10:42:38
148 For Scotlands Future

'At least there is plenty of time to select another candidate.'


And this time it will be one that Fat N'Eck wants.

How convenient.



130

Phil C,

13/07/2009 10:43:07
#139 Ewan

Alex Salmond looks after himself well, thank you. He is also looking after the interests of Sctland very well. No knee jerking. No panic. Just studied progress in the face of interminable interference from Labour.

The vipers that form the Westminster Government are the most unrepresentative, self-serving, incompetent, fraudulent and corrupt collection of rogues ever to force feed the UK their monstrous policies.
131

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 10:44:55
150 Still trying this old chestnut, we'll try again did the SNP increase there % vote from the last euro's?

The answer is YES.

Did they get the largest share of the vote and most votes cast at the euro election in 2009?

The answer is YES.

End of line.
132

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 10:45:58
#153 Phil,


Very well said.
133

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 10:51:06
153 Phil C

'Alex Salmond looks after himself well, thank you'


Eh?

He's morbidly obese, in case you hadn't noticed.

Only in Scotland could that be regarded as looking after yourself.


134

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 10:54:19
#154

Did the SNP vote percentage decrease by almost 4% between 2007 and 2009?

The answer is YES

Did the SNP vote numbers decrease by over 300,000 between 2007 and 2009?

The answer is YES
135

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13/07/2009 10:55:40
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136

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 10:59:54
#156 Stan,

So your measure of a politician's ability is his Body Mass Index??

No wonder you're regarded as an idiot on these boards.
137

Tris,

13/07/2009 11:03:42
"No date has been set for the by-election, though Labour is believed to be delaying the poll until November to prevent it falling during the summer holidays."

========

In whose world exactly, do summer holidays go on until November?

In Scotland the summer holidays are over by the beginning of September at the very latest. (I appreciate that that's not so in England, where doubtless these decisions are made, but even there summer is over by the end of September.)

If Norwich could manage to have an election within a few weeks, why couldn't Glasgow?

Meltdown? Oh dear no. Meltdown is what Labour is going through with the Chancellor saying different things from the Prime Minister and the First Secreatry (sounds like North Korea) running the country because the PM has completely lost the plot.

138

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 11:05:09
#159 Jimmy Le Pie


What do reckon Fat N'Eck weighs?

Is his BMI in three figures?
139

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 11:06:34
157 Still running away from the truth I see, apparently the fact that they are both different elections has escaped your attention YES.

So on election night do they usually compare the vote from the last election such as the EUROPEAN election and that is what we are talking about not the result from the Scottish parliament elections of 2007.

The might use it in the overall voting pattern however they do not use the Election of 97 and compare the European vote of 2009 only a competely hoon would use that and say this showed a drop in the SNP support from the 97 election.

Wait a moment hmmm....
140

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 11:18:10
#163

"Still running away from the truth I see, apparently the fact that they are both different elections has escaped your attention"

They may have been different elections but they still involved the whole of the Scottish electorate, and they still allowed the whole of the Scottish electorate to vote for the same parties - hence it is perfectly justifiable to compare the voting percentages in each election.

"The might use it in the overall voting pattern however they do not use the Election of 97 and compare the European vote of 2009"

Where did I compare the election of 1997 to the Euro election of 2009??

I compared the 2009 election to the most recent election before it - 2007.
141

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13/07/2009 11:33:00
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 11:33:49
164 You didn't it was a typo 97 instead of 07, indeed they did involve the electorate.

However you using the election of 07 and comparing it to the euro election of 09 % of votes and voting numbers etc..

This is as bad as using the entire % population and saying only 8% voted for the SNP.

If you don't vote, your vote doesn't count so using those who didn't vote in the calcuations is wrong and frankly undemocratic. Mind you it usually is a favoured method of unionism remember the 79 referendum?

So in other words your play on figures is just that a play of figures. It doesn't relate to the actual election result so therefore you are a HOON of the first order.

Farting against thunder, peeing up a rope both apply equally against your arguement.
143

El Franko,

13/07/2009 11:34:54
Poor old Glasgow. A dismal MP stands down, and dismal candidates step forward to take his place.
144

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13/07/2009 11:36:21
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John S,

13/07/2009 11:38:04
#163 Tormod:There is no direct comparision between the 2007 SP and 2009 EU elections or the UK general elections ie
In the Scottish 2009 EU elections
BNP took 27,174 votes or 2.5%
UKIP took 57,788 votes or 5.2%
Greens took 80,442 votes or 7.3%
and all three would have benefited from UK coverage.
Then there was an Independent chap who took 10,189 votes or 0.9%

The bottom line is the SNP increased there % of the votes in both the seperate elections.
146

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 11:47:08
#166

"If you don't vote, your vote doesn't count so using those who didn't vote in the calcuations is wrong and frankly undemocratic...So in other words your play on figures is just that a play of figures."

I didn't use the percentages of those who didn't vote - I used the percentages of those who DID vote for the SNP in subsequent elections - 32.9% in 2007, 29.1% in 2009, a drop of almost 4%.

Now there are several reasons for this drop, but it is nontheless perfectly reasonable to compare voting percentages between subsequent elections - I'm sure you for example would love to highlight the fact that the SNP got 17.7 in 2005 and 32.9% in 2007.
147

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 11:47:42
Yeah 1.

Your sole reason for creating circular arguments is so that you can spin for the Union.
148

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 11:49:10
#169

"The bottom line is the SNP increased there % of the votes in both the seperate elections."

And in subsequent elections i.e. 2007 and 2009, the SNP decreased their percentage of the vote.
149

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 11:51:09
169 Indeed John, I know why some folk try this tripe it's not very big or clever.
150

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13/07/2009 11:52:29
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 11:54:25
172 What colour is the sky on your planet?

Talking about spinning yourself into a mad one!
152

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 11:56:03
#173

"Indeed John, I know why some folk try this tripe it's not very big or clever."

What on earth is 'tripe' about comparing the SNP's vote percentage in subsequent elections? It provides a very interesting analyis of support for the SNP.

2003 Scottish election - 23.8%
2004 Euro election - 19.7%
2005 UK election - 17.7%
2007 Scottish election - 32.9%
2009 Euro election - 29.1%

So as can be seen from above the SNP vote rose considerably between 2005 and 2007, and is now dropping.
153

Scottyboy007,

GLASGOW 13/07/2009 11:57:06
The SNP in Glasgow are a complete Joke. They have done nothing for the people here. They are conned and bullied be the Labour party at every turn.
154

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13/07/2009 12:00:23
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13/07/2009 12:01:30
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 12:02:23
172 was the turnout the same for the two elections? Did the exact number of voters commit to participate or not?

They were different elections.

You are either being a dumpling or a hoon which is it?

157

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13/07/2009 12:04:36
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13/07/2009 12:05:42
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13/07/2009 12:07:14
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 12:07:53
176 You must be part the brownie team, only a complete dillusionally would argue that, wait a minute.....
161

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/07/2009 12:10:29
#180, Tormod.

He (Yeah1) is a JP Unionist troll.

He is, simply, another incarnation of the AM2/sm753 database.
162

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13/07/2009 12:11:25
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13/07/2009 12:12:36
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13/07/2009 12:13:32
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 12:14:00
176 Did you tell Gordon Brown to say that public spending will rise and there will be no cut in public spending?

Infact there will be a 0% rise!

Same tactic, dillusional, muddled and without question a fabrication of the truth!
166

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13/07/2009 12:14:22
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167

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 12:15:28
#180

"was the turnout the same for the two elections? Did the exact number of voters commit to participate or not? They were different elections."

Er...the turnout has nothing to do with the voting percentage - you work that out based on the percentage of those who voted.

Did the exact same number of voters also vote in the 2004 Euros and the 2009 Euros? Obviously not - so why is it justifiable to compare the percentages in those elections but not in 2007 and 2009?
168

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 12:16:04
185 Cheers Frank, I should know better.
169

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 12:17:28
#185

"He (Yeah1) is a JP Unionist troll."

It may be difficult for you to understand but not everyone who isn't fanatically devoted to the SNP is a 'unionist' - there are those who support independence but don't like the SNP, there are also those who don't care either way but don't like the SNP.

Would a unionist vote for an independence supporting party at the Euro elections for example?
170

Lee John,

13/07/2009 12:17:56
"The SNP campaign here is in complete, utter and total meltdown."

Election date not set. Campaign hasn't begun. What a load of tripe.
171

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13/07/2009 12:18:29
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Gruntfuttock,

13/07/2009 12:25:12
This is just another example of how the Scottish electorate are treated with contempt. Where do the political parties get these 3rd rate candidates from? Why should we put up with these dubious 'businessmen' who clearly have their snouts in the trough even before they are elected. There should be some rule that all elected representatives must have done a PROPER job for at least 5 years before they can qualify as a candidate (a local councillor is not a proper job; apparently our political classes are costing us 50 million per annum - we are over-governed in Scotland and its time that half of them were put out to grass). If they are incapable of this then they should be barred from holding office. This should apply to all political parties including the SNP who are just as bad as Labour, Tories and Lib Dems even though they always plead 'holier than thou'.
173

hoblar,

13/07/2009 12:26:53
Glenrothes was happening at a time something pushed by the press as 'the Brown bounce' was allegedly occurring.

If Brown's wife appeared in a scripted setting, or Gordon brown met 'the voters' for a round of 20 minute questioning (actually labour party supporters), it made the Scottish and English papers, was headline news on the bbc and other news media.

Well, that soundbite won't be happening this time, and the labour government are on borrowed time, at an unprecedented popularity, Michael Martin's former seat therefore, in spite of the arrogance of the few unionist desperados on here, well within the possibilities of being an SNP win.

Scotland can only benefit from ensuring some drone unionist does NOT to be the last token piece of westminster Labour voting fodder who will fail to even mention Scotland let alone do anything for their constituents.

Vote SNP, that's the best way!
174

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 12:27:26
191 Aye a complete and utter hoon, who has once again is shown to be spinning for all they are worth and failing.

You seem to be the only person that has taken the euro resutls as a fall in support of the SNP.

Know if you actually believe that...

Whatever pushses the slabbers buttons to reach for theere comfort blanket.
175

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13/07/2009 12:28:41
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176

GONNYNODEATHAT,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 12:30:54
Cllr Dornan is a JOKE !! These Glesga wee men will be getting horsed soon.
177

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 12:38:36
Shift Change taking place then.
178

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 12:43:35
Will Comrade Broon and New Labour Sleaze and Corruption have their gun totting thugs running around Glasgow during the by election threatening to shoot journalists just like during the Glenrothes fraud???
179

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 12:44:45
#202

It's OK, the JP staff won't be under threat.

You need to be a journalist for New Labour Sleaze to threaten!!
180

,

13/07/2009 12:45:16
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181

Tartan Viking,

13/07/2009 12:53:19
Labour accused the SNP of being in "complete, utter and total meltdown".

Rich coming from a party that has totally destroyed a once proud country, reducing it to third world status in the space of a few years. Joe Public saddled with thousands of pounds of debt to pay for their incompetent mis-handling of the economy. Thousands of pounds more to pay for an illegal war. Thousands of pounds to pay for the millions of people pouring over the borders whilst those in Wastemonster look the other way.

Meltdown? Lyebour started it.
182

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 12:59:55
Seems Comrade Blair is not going to get his much sought after EU Presidency.

Only right for someone who stood up and blatantly lied in Parliament about Iraq and WMD, and caused tens of thousands of deaths and much misery.

Mind you he found God so that makes all his past sins and crimes null and void!
183

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 13:00:14
#198

"Aye a complete and utter hoon"

The only 'hoon' here is you.

You appear to think that you can only compare election results and voting percentage if the exact same number of voters' votes in each election.

You also seem to think the turnout in an election somehow affects the calculation of vote percentage for each party.
184

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 13:00:22
193 Yeah1

“Would a unionist vote for an independence supporting party at the Euro elections for example?”

Now which party would that be exactly?

185

Miss H,

13/07/2009 13:03:01
If the SNP campaign was in meltdown Labour would call the by-election. Simple as that. Labour would be mad not to call the by-election and take advantage of an SNP campaign in meltdown. If the shoe was on the other foot, that’s what we would do.

They have until 21 July when Westminster breaks up to call it. If they don’t it is because they are not confident of winning – even though they are claiming the SNP campaign is in meltdown. Tubes.

Typical Scotsman headline incidentally - second SNP by-election candidate steps down. We only selected one candidate so how could two stand down?

186

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 13:03:30
#208

The Greens
187

Miss H,

13/07/2009 13:04:34
Yeah1 - elections are about who wins. The SNP won the euro election in Scotland, end of.
188

Miss H,

13/07/2009 13:09:17
62 If by shady background you mean that he has experienced financial difficulties - so have a lot of people and many more will be experiencing them as a consequence of the recession.

It is not a bad thing that politicians should have some personal experience of that. Most of our current crop of MPs have no idea what it is actually like to be without or to have money problems.
189

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 13:09:44
210 Yeah1

Interesting that you voted against the SNP who are part of the “Green Alliance” within the Euro Parliament.

Not a very clever move was it?
190

Tartan Viking,

13/07/2009 13:10:00
#212. You'll be laughing on the other side of your face when the Unionist parties have completely destroyed the country. We are 85% there already. The only hope for us is to reclaim our land and run it properly.
191

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 13:13:21
207 no I didn't more spin again hoonster, it's you that is spinning for all you are worth, each election is compared with the election before it.

You are the one who is trying to use the euro 09 election and compare it to the Scottish 07 election result and say that the SNP support is less.

What a complete and utter hoon, each election is different, what matters is who got the most votes and did you increase your % vote from the last compartible election.

So the hoon stands until otherwise, numpty.
192

Miss H,

13/07/2009 13:15:03
94 If that was true why don't Labour call the election?

They would call it today if they thought they had the faintest chance of winning.
193

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 13:19:55
207 Quote "You also seem to think the turnout in an election somehow affects the calculation of vote percentage for each party".

Really so if there is a large turnout and more folk vote for the SNP that doesn't affect the % vote, what a hoon you really are.
194

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 13:20:24
99 Grahamski I don't think I'm being naive. Gordon and Hutcheon have a long track record in these kind of stories - normally it's Labour guys who are caught in the spotlights. Do you assume they are all briefed against by their own Party ? Well, we know Wendy was, but I didn't assume they all are. If you think that is naive of me then I will stand corrected and assume that every story that energes from their pens is as a result of briefing against the object of their attentions. Happy?
195

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 13:24:27
I think some people are missing the point here. This could have happened to any Councillor who had experienced financial difficulties. What are we saying here, that people who have experienced financial difficulties and have had to live on very modest incomes whilst they paid their creditors off shouldn't be able to sit in Parliament?

To me that's crazy. You'll just encourage more professionalisation of politics and we'll get people who have ticked the right boxes since they left school to ensure they can't be criticised, and they'll know hee haw about real life as a consequence.

Well done Tom and Paul. Not.
196

brownlie,

13/07/2009 13:24:38
212 Macalypse

You really believe a Scotsman head-line?

Why the new moniker?
197

Anthony,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 13:27:00
This is going to be an interesting by-election. I would put Labour as firm favourites despite the national picture. There are a lot of people in this constituency from the old working class west of scotland school - the labour candidate could be collecting their families shrunken heads, wearing them proudly as a necklace, and they'd still vote labour.

I would also keep my eye on the BNP vote. Not because I think their going to do spectacularly well, (though the word is they could have the LibDems worried!), but rather it's going to be interesting to see where their vote comes from. If it draws more from the labour than the SNP vote to any significant extent (and not a lot could be significant in a national context), then Labour could be in a lot more trouble than they realise.
198

Miss H,

13/07/2009 13:28:25
The comments by Stan Butler and Grahamski provide a quite fascinating insight into what it is like to be a member of the Labour Party.

Party leaders briefing the press against their own members.
Internal fighting and skullduggery.
Leadership rather than members selecting candidates.

So glad I am in the SNP!
199

David55,

13/07/2009 13:28:58
Why are there so many absolute chancers who get in the position where they can be elected as councillors?

Traditionally, in the areas of Scotland I have stayed in, Labour councillors were seen as the most inept and corrupt councillors. Are the SNP councillors going the same way, now that they are more popular? Or is it just that the majority of councillors are either incompetent or corrupt?
200

David55,

13/07/2009 13:33:22
#223 Miss H - The activists on here should take a look at themselves. They are the real reason that politics is in such a state. They approve these inadequate candidates through a selection process.
201

Miss H,

13/07/2009 13:36:52
224 What makes you think he is a chancer?

It seems to me from a lot of these comments that people have misread the story - you are one of them.

James Dornan got no financial benefit from being on Culture & Sport. He was appointed to it by the Council - he didn't volunteer as an individual. It was part of his job to do it. The Council legal services must be as much to blame as he is because they should have advised him that he should not have been on it since he had a deed of trust.
202

,

13/07/2009 13:38:07
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203

Anthony,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 13:48:29
226) Miss H - as someone who isn't an SNP supporter, I have to agree with you. It seems to have been a pretty tough call.
204

Miss H,

13/07/2009 13:50:23
225 You do not answer the question I note. You believe he is a chancer but cannot say why.

Perhaps you believe that anybody who has experienced financial difficulties is inadequate and a chancer. Fair enough, that your point of view but it is not one that I share.

And given the level of poverty that exists in Glasgow North East I very much doubt if your opinion will be shared by the electorate of that constituency either.
205

,

13/07/2009 13:54:31
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206

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 13:54:35
#211

"elections are about who wins. The SNP won the euro election in Scotland, end of."

Strange I wasn't aware there was a seperate Scottish euro election. I thought Scotland was part of the UK euro election - one of 12 different regions of the UK.

I also wasn't aware the SNP 'won' the election - didn't they only get 2 seats, the same as labour?
207

,

13/07/2009 13:55:41
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208

bluepict,

13/07/2009 13:59:37
The only party in "meltdown" is labor.
209

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 14:05:54
#214

"Interesting that you voted against the SNP who are part of the “Green Alliance” within the Euro Parliament."

I didn't vote 'against the SNP' I voted FOR the Greens. Whats not clever about that?
210

Obanite,

13/07/2009 14:07:29
Not sure if this represents meltdown, but perhaps disorganisation. Not fatal, but in any case, I'd think Labour will hold this, because of the old "dog in a red suit" mentality. People need to think more about their vote.

For what it is worth, it is clear that NOVA ALBION 101 is the real one and the others are fakers, but in any case, can you kids take it elsewhere?

211

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 14:08:51
231
Stan Butler

"This guy has been briefed against, either by the defeated candidate or by someone in the party machine."

So you imagine. But even if reality reflected your warped imaginings, so what? That's politics, you fool! If a prospective candidate can't stand the heat within the party they are not going to be much use in office.

You need to grow up.

212

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 14:15:29
236
Obanite

"Not sure if this represents meltdown, but perhaps disorganisation."

Not even that. Were it not for the current atmosphere, this alleged trivial infringement would not even have warranted a mention. Had it been a Tory or BLP candidate involved, neither of those parties would have raised the issue. It is only because it is the SNP that the Tory/BLP cabal is getting all in a lather of contrived outrage. They really are totally pathetic.

213

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 14:16:18
#216

"what matters is who got the most votes and did you increase your % vote from the last compartible election."

The last comparable election was 2007 - when the SNP got 32.9%. In the Euros they got 29.1% - so their vote percentage did drop, mainly due to the increase in support for minor parties such as the Greens and the BNP.
214

Darien,

Panama 13/07/2009 14:16:32
#227 scotnotbrit: " the english will vote tory , good luck to them with that "

And also those English in Scotland that can't stomach the idea of Scottish independence. Or they may vote FibDum, another British Nationalist party.

Twoud make an interesting poll that - asking English people living in Scotland what is the likelihood of their voting for Scottish independence, and why/or why not. That group probably accounts for between 5-10% of the voting pop in Scotland so not insignificant. It only takes 5-10% to sway things for or against Scotland now.

Question: Will Scotland remain in the British state due to the preferences (or prejudices) of English voters resident in Scotland?
215

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 14:17:55
237 Electric Hermit


So you agree that he has been briefed against by another gnat?


216

brownlie,

13/07/2009 14:18:37
231 Stan Butler

Do you have any evidence to back up your contentions or is it the result, as usual, of your over-heated imagination trying to exist in a vacuum?
217

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 14:19:10
#218

"Really so if there is a large turnout and more folk vote for the SNP that doesn't affect the % vote"

You don't appear to understand how vote percentage is worked out - it has nothing to do with the size of the turnout, which you appeared to suggest - it is to do with percentage of voters voting for each party.

The SNP could get 25 votes from a turnout of 100 voters, they could also get 250 votes from 1000 voters - their vote percentage would still be 25% in both cases, despite a much higher turnout in the latter case.

Is that clear enough for you to understand?
218

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 14:21:24
#242

"Do you have any evidence to back up your contentions or is it the result, as usual, of your over-heated imagination trying to exist in a vacuum?"

Having evidence to back up contentions doesn't usually prevent SNP supporters from spouting out conspiracy theories about 'vote rigging' in Glenrothes - are they too the result of 'over-heated' imaginations?
219

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 14:22:43
240
Darien

"And also those English in Scotland..."

You've got that massively wrong. Some of the most ardent nationalists I have known were incomers from England.

What you completely fail to understand is that it is not about nationality or ethnicity. It is about good governance. And an English person living, working and raising a family in Scotland has just as much interest in the good governance of their adopted homeland as anyone who was born and bred here.

That is why so many of them support the SNP.

220

Obanite,

13/07/2009 14:22:46
I don't really want to judge, but, to be honest, I think that the Labour Party are scratching around for anything right now. I think it is fair to say that anyone on this website who is a Labour supporter must be a real die-hard, because they are at such a low ebb. Consequently, you are probably never going to have a serious discussion on here with any of them. They are out of the same mould as the SNP supporters who want everyone to learn gaelic (ie the loonatic fringe).

There are quite alot of lunatics on this website.
221

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 14:24:35
241
Stan Butler

"So you agree that he has been briefed against by another gnat?"

I agreed with nothing.

Gnats are flying insects. You need to grow up.

222

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 14:25:07
#240

"Will Scotland remain in the British state due to the preferences (or prejudices) of English voters resident in Scotland?"

And what if it did? These 'English' voters live in Scotland and are therefore entitled to vote in Scottish elections and referendums.

Perhaps you would prefer English people in Scotland to be denied their democratic right to vote? Maybe you would also like to deny other 'immigrants' in Scotland too?

Perhaps you think only those of 'pure' Scottish blood should be allowed to vote in Scotland?
223

brownlie,

13/07/2009 14:26:38
244 Yeah 1

Who rattled your cage? How many monikers are you using today?
224

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 14:35:36
239,243 Hoonster you really are taking it to the next level of numptiness aren't you.

The last comparable election to the Euro 09 was the euro 04 you numpty, just as the Scottish Election in 07 is compared to 03, that is to every normal rational human being who takes an interest in politics.

Quote "You don't appear to understand how vote percentage is worked out - it has nothing to do with the size of the turnout, which you appeared to suggest - it is to do with percentage of voters voting for each party".

Really I did realise that the % is calculated on the votes for each party.

So turnout has no affect on this does it, your example uses a criteria that the % is set no matter on the turnout again only a complete and utter numpty and hoon would claim this, how in the hell would you know that it was the case?

225

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 14:41:26
251 Brownlie he rattles his own hoon cage.
226

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 13/07/2009 14:44:52
Put Nationalist on the headline and the cybernatzis are on it like dung beetles.
227

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 14:46:49
255 Funky Gibbon Actually.
228

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 14:54:08
243 Hoonster riddle me this if 20,000 extra folk had voted for the SNP would this have changed there % share of the vote?
229

Alastair the First,

13/07/2009 14:56:05
250: Actually I think you will find that support for independence amongst those who have moved here from England is at least as high as amongst the native population. These people appreciate better than many native Scots how independence would benefit their adopted homeland. There are a lot of SNP members who are actually English. Try explaining that away in unionist terms...
230

hoblar,

13/07/2009 14:57:16

You've got that massively wrong. Some of the most ardent nationalists I have known were incomers from England.
"What you completely fail to understand is that it is not about nationality or ethnicity. It is about good governance. And an English person living, working and raising a family in Scotland has just as much interest in the good governance of their adopted homeland as anyone who was born and bred here.

That is why so many of them support the SNP."

This is very true, the presumption that people who have moved to live in Scotland vote unionist when they have a better and wider choice than they would get if voting in England is a wrong one.

English people are going to vote for the SNP if they believe they are a better option than LabourToryLibs, (that useless merry-go-round of non political choice) just as English people are members of the SNP and are MSP's in the Scottish Parliament.

I am all for English people living and voting in Scotland, they are more sensible than the alleged 'Scots' on here, (few as these unionists actually are in numbers if not comments) are, that are rabid unionists beyond the comprehension of us mere mortals who watch the unionist support in Scotland at a historical lowpoint.
231

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 14:58:07
249 What is with you, Gail Sheridan and leather boots?
232

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 14:58:30
#252

"The last comparable election to the Euro 09 was the euro 04 you numpty, just as the Scottish Election in 07 is compared to 03"

If an election has the same voters, voting for the same parties (as the Euro 2009 and Scottish 2007 elections do) then it is perfectly acceptable to compare voting percentages between the two elections.

"Really I did realise that the % is calculated on the votes for each party.So turnout has no affect on this does it"

As I have already explained, and as my simple example shows,no, the turnout in an election does not have any effect on the voting percentage....
233

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 15:05:57

How much support will the local branch of the gnats give to a candidate forced on them by Fat N'Eck Salmond?

Especially after the showing up he got in Glenrothes.

They'll be like rats in a sack.
234

brownlie,

13/07/2009 15:08:39
255 Mercutio

Define and derivate "cybernatzis"?
235

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 15:16:29
261 The only person that is suggesting that is you hoonster, being an avid follower of elections for many years, pundetry is always part of the program.

What you are saying is something completely different, again you are comparing two different elections to try and justify your ridiculous claims.

Your simple example is just that simple. Tell me if you have a high turnout and more folk vote for the SNP does this increase there share of the vote?

So if 150,000 more folk vote for party A than they did at the previous comparable election will this effect the % share?

If this 150,000 include new voters will this affect the turnout?

Take your time hoonster.
236

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 15:18:01
262 But what about the rabbits George?
237

Electric Hermit,

262 Stan Butler 13/07/2009 15:20:10
262
Stan Butler

Which do you think makes you look more foolish? The playground-level name-calling? Or the contrived conspiracy theories?

If you gave up both, would you still look foolish?

238

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 15:22:04
#264

"Your simple example is just that simple."

It may have been a simple example but it is clearly still too hard for you to comprehend.

"Tell me if you have a high turnout and more folk vote for the SNP does this increase there share of the vote?"

If more people vote for the SNP it does increase their share of the vote - whether it is a high turnout or not doesn't make any difference.

"So if 150,000 more folk vote for party A than they did at the previous comparable election will this effect the % share?"

Yes. But the size of the turnout is irrelevant when working out voting percentage - that is the point I am making, which you seem unable to understand.

239

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 15:22:53
Stan,

Can you remind me of the results of the last opinion poll re party leaders popularity in Scotland???

The figure of 7% for Comrade Gray springs to mind??
240

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 15:26:34
261 ANother one for you hoonster if you have a low turnout and you manage get MORE of your vote out does this affect your % vote?

So who sets the % votes for each of the parties?

According to you turnout has no affect on the % vote.

Do you bark at the moon on a regular basis?
241

hoblar,

13/07/2009 15:29:25
Ian Gray is on a massive 7% of popularity, lower than even Wendy Alexander, easily shooting down the 52% that poor old Alex Salmond, two years into office Like Gordon brown is saddled with.
242

Esox Hunter,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 15:30:47
261 Yeah1 You gave a pretty decent impression of apparantly knowing what your talking about but once again your totally wrong !

Of course the turnout can affect the percentages voting for each party. With labour being unpopular due to the recession many of their supporters simply stayed at home and at the same time the SNP did better in getting their supporters out to vote. As a result the SNP increased their proportion of the overall vote although significantly they still only won two Euro seats such is the way the voting system works.

If you want to crow about that then just carry on but although I aint a Labour supporter or voter theres every chance that the balance might shift away from the SNP, particularly as their catalogue of failures and broken promises continues unabated. Of course in the meantime the SNP goons will continue to toe the party line with their anti english bile on here but that might just be their undoing when decent minded people come to make a judgement on the best course for our country's future.



243

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 15:33:07
267 More spinning and flipping I see, I understand exactly what you are trying to do.

Again you have been caught out hoonster!

Correct the % is worked out by the number of votes, so the number of voters affects the % vote, unless you are a God and decide the % who get to vote at every election.

Otherwise the % vote changes every election.
244

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 15:36:30
Barry Bondage # 88

I think the SNP doth protest too much, when they say they despise Westminster. These guys know there is not going to be an independence referendum and even if by some mischance one is granted to the SNP the Scottish people are not stupid enough to vote for the uncertainty that the SNP will bring.
Why do you think that Diageo is positioning the company as they are. It is out of fear of Scottish independence and SNP tax raids. The SNP will not have the oil revenue that they go on about, so, the next easiest target is the Whisky industry.
The SNP will be going to Westminster for many, many years to come, but hopefully in smaller numbers. A few token Nats led by chief clown Salmond.
245

,

13/07/2009 15:37:35
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246

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 15:41:13
#273 Tartan Fool,

Aye your right about Diagio.

That's why McDonald's are moving their head office to Switzerland - to escape the SNP even though they're based in London??

Imbicile!!
247

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 15:42:52
273 Sticking your head in the sand or in your case a part of your anatomy always has proved to be such a good strategy.

Along sticking your fingers in your ears and saying la la la in a loud voice.
248

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 15:43:32
273
Tartan Bond

"Why do you think that Diageo is positioning the company as they are. It is out of fear of Scottish independence and SNP tax raids."

I see where you are going wrong here. You are so intently focused on contriving silly scare stories that there is not enough of what passes for intellect left to check whether the silly scare stories even make sense.

Scotch whisky will be produced ONLY in Scotland whether Scotland secedes from the union or not. The difference that secession will make is that it will ensure we have a government, with full powers, committed to securing such industries, rather than pandering to corporate leeches as the Tory?BLP cabal do.

249

,

13/07/2009 15:45:21
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250

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 15:45:54
275 Switzerland is a favoured location for the setting up of LLP's
251

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 15:47:49
273
Tartan Bond

"These guys know there is not going to be an independence referendum..."

The referendum will be held next year. Unless, of course, the cowards of the Tory/BLP alliance contrive to block the democratic process out of fear that the result might hasten their already certain demise.

252

,

13/07/2009 15:48:52
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253

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 15:50:45
281
nova albion5

"So, in conclusion, Tartan Bond is completely wrong."

The term "wrong" seems inadequate, somehow.

254

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 15:50:50
Electric Hermit # 277

Diageo's repositioning is not a scare story, except in your mind.

nova albion5 # 278

If the SNP cannot tax oil and will not tax whisky, who will they tax. Tax increases for the general population?
If that is their strategy they should tell us now.
255

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 15:54:02
#271

"Of course the turnout can affect the percentages voting for each party. With labour being unpopular due to the recession many of their supporters simply stayed at home and at the same time the SNP did better in getting their supporters out to vote. As a result the SNP increased their proportion of the overall vote"

You misunderstand - what I am saying, which Tormod seems unable to understand, is that the turnout is irrelevant when actually calculating the voting percentage of each party.

As I have already shown - if a party gets 25 votes from a turnout of 100 voters it will have a vote percentage of 25%. If the same party gets 250 votes from 1000 voters it will still only have 25% of the vote - despite a massive increase of 900 in the turnout.

The turnout can affect the number of voters each party gets, but it does not affect actually working out the vote percentage.
256

,

13/07/2009 15:56:31
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257

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 15:56:42
Electric Hermit # 280

Get your support out on Scotland's streets and demand the referendum you say you want, if you can. Convince the MSPs from other parties that is what the majority of Scottish people want.
That shouldn't be a problem if you have the support that you say you have?
James Dornan should be reported to the Police for breaching bankruptcy regulations, put him before a court for the court to decide his guilt or innocence. I am sure the SNP mob support the rule of law.
258

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 15:57:23
#272

"Correct the % is worked out by the number of votes, so the number of voters affects the % vote, unless you are a God and decide the % who get to vote at every election."

The number of votes for each party affects the vote percentage for each party - the OVERALL turnout does not however - so the number of overall voters does not affect the % vote.
259

brownlie,

13/07/2009 16:05:12
271 Esox Hunter


"in the meantime the SNP goons continue to toe the party line with their anti-English bile ..."

Bearing in mind the number of English SNP supporters have you any evidence that this "anti-English bile" is the SNP "party line" and can you give evidence of it on this site from genuine SNP supporters? What are "goons"?
260

,

13/07/2009 16:05:37
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261

,

13/07/2009 16:06:27
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262

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:08:36
284 More spinning and changing your wording ever so slightly I see. Yes I know how the % is worked out, you said that turnout does not affect this when of course it does.

Your simple example uses a set percentage of votes for the turnout, tell me who sets this % is it you or the voters?
263

,

13/07/2009 16:11:32
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264

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 16:12:15
Tartan,

Do you have the vote???
265

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:12:16
280 Spinning like mad hoonster spinning like mad, if you have more or less folk voting from election A to B does this affect the % vote yes or no?
266

,

13/07/2009 16:16:21
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267

brownlie,

13/07/2009 16:17:09
287

Tormod, a charaid, be fair - he is a "Green" voter, ahem!

283 Nova

Thanks, that's cleared that little mystery up!

268

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 16:17:10
#284

"Yes I know how the % is worked out, you said that turnout does not affect this when of course it does."

How does the turnout affect the calculation of the vote percentage?

To calculate the vote percentage for each party you divide the number of votes for that party by the total turnout - whether that turnout is high or low is irrelevant.

"Your simple example uses a set percentage of votes for the turnout, tell me who sets this % is it you or the voters?"

I used a simple example with a set percentage in order to try and help you understand - clearly it was still too complicated for you.

The turnout for the Scottish election 2007 was 2,016,978 of which the SNP got 664,227 - 32.9% of the vote.

Now say the turnout for the Scottish election 2011 is up to 2,213,384 for example - and the SNP get 728,203 votes - their vote percentage will still be 32.9% of the vote, despite the fact that the turnout has increased by almost 200,000.
269

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:18:58
280 Quote "The number of votes for each party affects the vote percentage for each party - the OVERALL turnout does not however - so the number of overall voters does not affect the % vote."

Quite possibly one of the most inept and stupid sentances I have had the misfortune to read.

So the number of overall voters doesn't affect the % vote do they, had did the SNP get elected in 2007 then?

How do manage to get any change of Government?
270

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 16:19:16
#287

"if you have more or less folk voting from election A to B does this affect the % vote yes or no?"

No - see my example in #290.
271

Elethiomel,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 16:19:28
Labour Activists - "Haha your candidate had to resign because he is corrupt"

SNP Activists - "At lease we're less corrupt than you!!!!"

Labour Activists - "No we're less corrupt than you!!!"

*one massive slapfight later*

Labour - "Well at least after that exhuasting slap fight we can watch 2 minutes of cricket highlights on the bbc*

SNP Activists - "We don't like cricket on the tv, that's an English sport, everyone I know from the pub has a massive opinion on this despite it being completely unimportant and would rather watch curling, oh and they speak for everyone on Scotland on this matter, just like the SNP activist base."

*one massive slapfight later*

Ad nauseum.....
272

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 16:20:41
Jimmy Le Pie # 286

I love Polling Days Jimmy, going from polling station to polling station, voting as often as I can, but, not SNP anymore.
Then there's all the postal votes in advance of Polling Day... Democracy is wonderful.
273

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 16:21:17
#289

"Tormod, a charaid, be fair - he is a "Green" voter, ahem!"

Why is it so difficult to believe I voted Green at the recent Euro elections?
274

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 16:23:30
#285

Old proverb - when in the greenhoose don't fling stones!

As you said "In my role as self appointed head of the grammar and spelling police on this website," have a look at your post #282 and see if you can spot your mistake???

Here's a clue,
"What a load of rot.
Increasing the tax rate does incrase the tax take."
275

Elethiomel,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 16:24:08
#295 Because everyone must see everythign in terms of nationalist vs. unionist dogma, there are no other opinions. I think it's the law or something.
276

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/07/2009 16:25:17
#294

When were the criminally insane allowed the vote???

Is this another New Labour Sleaze scheme to rig the vote????
277

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:25:39
290 The turnout affects the vote % you complete and utter numpty.

Wow really I am impressed on your calculations I am. The fact that you know exactly the number of votes in the 2011 election.

A wee problem for you though is this the figures you used keep the % vote at 32.9% what if 50,000 more folk vote for the SNP than you used in your calculation?
278

brownlie,

13/07/2009 16:26:21
293

I hope your posting made some kind of sense at the point of origin.
279

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 16:26:35
#291

"Quite possibly one of the most inept and stupid sentances I have had the misfortune to read."

As inept and stupid as your sentence at #209?:

"what matters is who got the most votes and did you increase your % vote from the last compartible election."

Perhaps you could explain what 'compartible' means?

There is clearly no point in trying to explain to you the intricacies of how to calculate voting percentage - you are unable to understand even the simplest of examples.

I will therefore leave you with your delusion that the turnout somehow affects how you work out the voting percentage...
280

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 16:31:38
#299

"The turnout affects the vote % you complete and utter numpty."

You appear to be confusing the turnout at an election with the number of voters that each party gets.

"the figures you used keep the % vote at 32.9% what if 50,000 more folk vote for the SNP than you used in your calculation?"

In my example at #290 the SNP got 64,000 more votes than in 2007 - but still got 32.9% of the vote.
281

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 16:33:01
It is a pity that James Dornan did not win the Glasgow North East by-election. It would have been so much more fun seeing him booted out of Parliament whilst all the SNP drones complained that bankruptcy laws are not supposed to apply to SNP supporters.

I think Angus MacNeil MP SNP should now do his civic duty and grass James Dornan to the authorities for his apparent breach of bankruptcy rules. At least in Dornan's case there is evidence to support the complaint.
282

Edward,

13/07/2009 16:33:39
No mention in this paper, but something that should start to concern us all, is the latest leaks concerning RBS
From the usual leak via Robert Peston, its being floated out that the Government might not sell of its shares in RBS just yet as it thinks it would loose money. However will sell of to the private sector.
What should concern most, is the fact that the government are looking at selling off the shares they have to anyone other than back to RBS!
It looks like the Labour government are determine to completely destroy Banking in Scotland. They got rid of the Bank of Scotland by having it sold to Lloyds
Now they want to complete it by selling off RBS and no doubt close the HQ offices and sell off
Labour are keeping up the anti Bank smearing in an effort to get a compliant population
283

SlyFifer,

Somewhere South of Fife 13/07/2009 16:34:17
#22 Fifi ans #189 Gruntfuttock
Firstly Fifi. I agree completely with your comments ragarding all these prefixes. In choosing our party name we recognised that upon independence there would be no need to prefix anything 'Scottish'. We will drop the Scottish part of our name and simply become the Democratic Alliance. You will see that we don't even use the suffux 'party' ?.
#189 Gruntfuttock. Agree completely. Take a look at our web-site www.scottishdemocraticalliance.org and you will see that experience is a prerequisite to become a candidate for the SDA.
The Scottish Democratic Alliance stands for independence from the UK and also from the EU and came officially into being last week.
284

brownlie,

13/07/2009 16:34:35
295 Yeah1

Possibly because you only criticise and denigrate the SNP in any of your postings??? Possibly because your constant negativity posts regarding the SNP far outnumber any comments you posted positively regarding the Green party? In fact, I'm struggling to recall any positive comments you made regarding the Green Party.
285

,

13/07/2009 16:35:20
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286

brownlie,

13/07/2009 16:42:39
303 Tartan Bond

I take it you are naive enough to regard the FACT that those who gave money to the Labour Party consequently receiving "honours" was just a fortunate coincidence?
287

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:44:32
301 Okay then hoonster, I am dillusional turnout has no affect on the % vote, which then in turn has no affect when working out the parties share of the vote

Obviously it's a typing mistake.
288

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:48:58
302 I'll try again if you add a further 50,000 of voters on top of the figure you used in your example would it affect the % vote?

So instead of 64,000 it's 114,000 extra votes, does this alter there % of the vote?

Take your time hoonster.
289

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 16:49:28
nova albion5 # 307

I think that you are having delusions, delusions of sanity perhaps, but, it should be pointed out there is no one posting here as "Tartan Ninny."
Why don't you call your mummy and see if she can sort it out for you.
290

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 16:52:33
brownlie # 308

Coincidence is right, there is no evidence for any other explanation.

What will Brain Souter, the worlds most famous bus conductor, get as a consequence of giving money to the SNP?
291

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:53:53
312 Perhaps you think a "K" and a big "P" are this months specials at McDonalds?
292

langtonian,

uphall 13/07/2009 16:55:55
Calman is a sound platform for Holyrood politics to grasp,it's coherent,and flexible.

Referendum are for backsliders,no hoper's.

Voter's will use their franchise to full effect at a General and Holyrood election.

Stabillity is requiered, soundly based financial policies are ipso facto essential.

SNP are all over the place,for instance £500,000 spend taking parliament on a grand tour of Scotland,effecively because The First Minister rejects the Calman report.

If and when his Constitutional offering comes to light it will be surprising if there will be much meat on the bone to "chew over".

EGO exercise writ large.
293

,

13/07/2009 16:57:28
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294

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/07/2009 16:58:37
314 Cheers for the laugh.

Question for you if Calman is such a good "Show" why are the tories and labour "parking" it?
295

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 17:07:17
nova albion5 # 315

Where did you do that?
You've been banging on about Switzerland, I never mentioned Switzerland. From what I can see you have also confused Personal Tax with Corporation Tax in the same sentence.
You are generally confused, that happens when you swallow the bilge emanating from obsessives like "Electric Hermit,"or "The Spook From Leith," or whatever pseudonym he/she/it is using lately.

As I said earlier, call mummy and get her to sort it out for baby.
296

,

13/07/2009 17:07:50
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297

,

13/07/2009 17:09:38
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298

Yeah1,

13/07/2009 17:13:11
#306

"Possibly because you only criticise and denigrate the SNP in any of your postings??? Possibly because your constant negativity posts regarding the SNP far outnumber any comments you posted positively regarding the Green party? In fact, I'm struggling to recall any positive comments you made regarding the Green Party."

Maybe because there are very rarely any articles on the Green party? Search the Scotsman website for any articles on the Greens and/or climate change/global warming and I am likely to have made comments on it.

Now I won't disagree that I dislike the SNP, their leader and their rabid, fanatical supporters on these boards, but that doesn't automatically make me a unionist or a labour supporter.
299

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 17:13:44
nova albion5 # 319

Ah, the imaginary thesis problem...?
300

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 17:16:55
#285 Rufus

I gather that you have been bumped from a number of threads already today; do you hold some kind of record for this?

I note that you are now attempting to impersonate an adult but are not having much success in fooling anyone apart from nova albion,(who may well be you under yet another moniker).

Maybe I should be flattered in having a clone, however I just wish it was by someone with at least a modicum of intelligence.
301

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 17:32:19
Tormod # 313

Are you a manager at McDonalds and is a "K" and a "P" are some kind of special promotion.
Is that where big Sean got his "K," McDonalds?

Incidentally, maybe you can answer this for me. Why after all the begging the SNP did on Connery's behalf, plus Connery's dosh, did he get his "K" for services to charity and nor services to acting?
Do you think someone in the Labours Party was having a laugh that day? It is probably down to Tony Blair, everything is his fault.
I suggest Blair said, along the lines of, "I've had that soppy Alec Salmond on again bleating about a "K" for Sean Connery. Give Connery a "K" but give it to him for anything, but, acting, because he's a big, bl**dy awful ham.
Rings true that, do you not think so?
302

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 17:51:17
323 Tartan Bond

Blair was very convincing in that movie “Iraq and the war criminals”.
303

Miss H,

13/07/2009 17:52:31
320 The logical outcome of your dislike of the SNP however, were it shared by the electors, would not be a Green administration - it would be a Labour led administration complete with a pro nuclear power and pro Trident stance.

Sometimes the holier-than-thou Greens forget that.
304

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 18:11:22
dunedin bully wee 1877 # 324

Has there been an criminal enquiry into the Iraq war?
If pater Bush had gone to Baghdad in the first Iraq war, deposing Saddam Hussein, would that have been a war crime too, in your book?
You forgot to mention the sequel, the one where Colonel Gaddaffi unilaterally gave up his nuclear ambitions after Saddam's experience.
Do Scottish nationalists believe that Saddam Hussein was one of the good guys?

If James Dornan had done nothing wrong why did he quit? This SNP meltdown is a process not an event.

305

Alan B,

13/07/2009 18:31:29
#Yeah1

The green party support indepdendence do you?

The green party would mean withdrawal from the EU do you support that?

I find it strange that you would dislike a party due in part due to a few posters on a new web site. Surely when you support or reject a party it is due to their policies and to what extent they fail or succeed in power if they ever get there.

Thing i find abit strange about voting green is that both the lib dems and the snp are so much more "green" than the tories or labour particularly from a westminster perspective and are more mainstream and likely to effect what actually happens.
306

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 18:33:11
326 Tartan Bond

Have there been any “criminal investigations” into the massacres in Darfur, and does that mean that the perpetrators are not guilty?

What evidence do you have that Gaddaffi gave up any ambitions he may have had to obtain WMD as a result of the Iraq massacres?

Do non-Scot Nats believe that going to war in order to obtain regime change is either legal or moral?

What crime are you accusing James Dornan of committing?

307

Alan B,

13/07/2009 18:38:03
#Tartan Bond

By and large to make war legal it needs a UN mandate to specifically specify that war is legal and give it a legal mandate.

As such a war without a UN resolution mandating war is illegal.

Part of the problem with the whole was it legal or not argument is it distracts from the real issue was it the right thing to do or not. Something that is much more relevant given that very few will on these threads will be in any position to make a real legal judgement.

The legal argument the government would use is to say that as the first gulf war was mandated and Sadam broke the terms of the ceasefire (it was a ceasefire) then that legally allowed the war to be recommenced.

But to get it truely legal would have required a new mandate from the UN.

The problem with say the french pointing out that the war was illegal is they and the uk begged the US to sort out the mess of yugoslavia and intervene militarily against the serbs. There was no UN mandate for that as Russia could veto it. As such that interventions while probably justified was technically illegal.


308

hoblar,

13/07/2009 18:51:51
There is no stopping the two very very boring unionist trolls is there?

They are on a roll. lol

If it isn't talking deludedly about % of votes by the use of bawbaggery it is their delusions about who is winning the public vote, again via bawbaggery.

The SNP are rising, the others are falling, and that is quite fitting when you consider the chaos and dare I say it "meltdown' that has been new labour in the last two years.

In comparison the SNP have fared well, as a government.

309

Lee John,

13/07/2009 19:16:41
Tartan Bond

Please donate your brain. I am constructing an idiot.
310

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 19:21:18
dunedin bully wee 1877 # 328

You should ask some non-Scots that question.

What Iraq massacres? More SNP hyperbole from you, not even Salmond has come up with that load of old pony?
Don't you believe in black and white? In the SNP wonderland is the law not the law, that there are only matters which are "technically illegal?"
Of course you have overlooked the fact that France has come back into NATO within the last year. They will have done that because they believe that NATO action in Afghanistan is illegal too.
The UK government will always decide what is in the interest of the UKs security, not you, not Salmond, not ever. Salmond will never sit in the UN Security Council and probably never in the General Assembly.

Alan B # 329

I agree with most of what you say.
If the UK is attacked, as the US was on 9/11, that is not a technicality and the UK will not, nor should be expected to sit around while the rights or wrongs of defending against further attacks, or, of retaliating are debated. That is a sovereign choice, Russia understands that, so does Georgia.
311

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 19:25:01
Lee John # 331

Judging by your posts you 88% there, just get your brain removed and substitute it with the brain of a mouse to increase the intellectual capacity of your idiot.
312

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 19:29:21
279
Tartan Bond

"Get your support out on Scotland's streets and demand the referendum you say you want..."

That would be a bit redundant. Given tat the referendum will be happening as scheduled. Unless the cowards of the Tory/BLP alliance succeed in thwarting the democratic process, of course.

"James Dornan should be reported to the Police..."

I'm sure the police have better things to do. But please feel free to storm your local police station demanding the immediate arrest of James Dornan. There's just two words you mind want to bear in mind when doing so -

SECTION EIGHT!

313

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 19:34:39
293
Elethiomel

I'm sure you thought that was fiendishly clever and have been furiously patting yourself on the back ever since posting. But the simple fact is that there isn't even the vaguest suggestion of corruption here.

Which kinda leaves you looking like a total pr!ck.

314

Unionist Voice,

13/07/2009 19:36:37
333. Tartan Bond

Great post! What cruel vicissitudes of fate that your pithy and devastating rejoinder about your correspondent's IQ should have been rendered unintelligible by your sentence construction being that of a slack jawed, swivel eyed moron! I sympathise, you were nearly there!
315

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 19:36:48
332 Tartan Bond,

What a strange rant, totally divorced from any of my previous points.

Alex Salmond and the General Assembly?

“First Minister Alex Salmond
General Assembly of the Church of Scotland
The Mound, Edinburgh
Monday, May 25, 2009
It is an honour, as First Minister of Scotland, to be able to speak to this Assembly.”
---------------------------------------
Or did you not mean that particular General Assembly?

316

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 19:39:08
Rather amusing but hardly disasterous and certainly no meltdown.

This is a safe Labour seat after all. Whatever the definition of a safe Labour seat these days.
317

TheUnionisBritish,

13/07/2009 19:39:13
333 - our local mice are brainer than a lot of posters on this site, you included. Have a good evening everyone. Being 100% negative must get you all down.
318

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 19:41:10
303
Tartan Bond

"It would have been so much more fun seeing him ..."

OK! We know you're an embarrassment to your fellow morons. You can stop putting so much effort into proving it. It goes without saying that you are too stupid to understand this, but the simple fact is that James Dornan did nothing that could possibly get him "booted out of Parliament". Even if he was guilty of the infringement alleged, it does not debar him from holding public office.

Please keep posting. You are such a perfect target.

319

brownlie,

13/07/2009 19:41:36
312 Tartan

Look at the number of times that those who gave extravagant gifts of money to the Labour party received honours during Blair's ime in office. If you, then, still believe that this was mere coincidence and that there was no correlation between these two factors your ability to differentiate between fact and fiction must be called into question.
320

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 19:42:10
It's getting to the role reversal stage where you could stick a monkey up with a yellow/black rosette against a monkey with a red rosette.

Difference being that the real monkey will be wearing the red rosette.
321

Alan B,

13/07/2009 19:45:22
#Tartan Bond

The only problem with that argument is Sept 11 had nothing to do with Iraq. That is an argument for going into Afghanistan (which I do not think anyone is saying was illegal).

Going into Iraq is more to do with the concept of pre-emptive strike. And even that is a bit of a jump as iraq was not going to attack anyone as it was still under the cosh from the US with no fly zones.

The reason for Iraq was more likely so that it could put more pressure on Saudi which actually was a lot more involved in Sept 11 and a bigger breading ground of fundamentalism. Removing Sadam in a pre-emptive way is more from a believe that it would cause a fundamental power shift in the middle east whose current structure causes the terror issues.

But the legality is a stretch.
322

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 19:47:03
Electric Hermit # 334

Salmond's referendum is not going to happen. It is not a question of cowardice amongst other MSPs. They were not delegated to Holyrood to help Salmond break up the UK. If the Scottish voting majority wanted to break up the UK they would have voted SNP, that did not happen, nor ever will.
The SNP doesn't have the support in Scotland, or , they would have exercised it on the streets. Soon, it will only be you here and your other monikers talking to one another. The SNP does not have the conviction to make independence happen. Nobody trusts Salmond, he has deserted Scotland before for Westminster and all Nats know that he will do it again when it suits Salmond.

The SNP selection procedures have collapsed too, because there is not a large enough pool of qualified candidates. The upshot is that you now are scraping the bottom the barrel with candidates like James Dornan and hoping nobody will notice.

You have got a big enough ego why don't you put yourself forward as an SNP wannabe MP.
Or, maybe you are too much of a coward?
323

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 19:47:03
305
SlyFifer

"The Scottish Democratic Alliance stands for independence from the UK and also from the EU and came officially into being last week."

We are already over-supplied with anti-European nutters courtesy of UKIP and the BNP. Your lot are redundant.

Unless, of course, your purpose is to split the nationalist vote. In which case you may find that the Scottish electorate are not quite as stupid as you hope.

324

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 19:51:06
The early morning TV news had a piece about the Scottish Press being "in meltdown", it seems fewer and fewer people are buying the Unionist rags.

The opening shot panned along the windows of the boardroom at Hootmon House.

No mention of a corresponding dip in the fortunes of the English Papers.

Lesson to be learned chaps...you need to keep Scottish content to a bare minimum, while redoubling your efforts to demonise the SNP...that should do the trick.

325

Tartan Bond,

13/07/2009 19:55:41
Electric Hermit # 345

It is the SNP that believes the Scottish electorate is stupid. Promising Utopia when the reality is the opposite, penury, high taxes, no minimum wage; great.

What is my lot? I don't belong to any political party.

I'm going for a drink, you are welcome to join me...
326

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 19:58:59
345, Electric Hermit. I would like to think that an independent Scotland will have a say in its relationship with the EU.

Whether that is a renegotiation of the UK terms of membership or a Norway style relationship would have to put to the Scottish electorate.

Forget any comparisons with UKIP or their likes and think in a purely Scottish context.
327

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 20:00:17
347 Tartan Bond

Are you sure that it would be wise to partake of any more alcohol when your brain appears to be as addled as it is?
328

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 20:02:01
347, Tartan Bond. Did you throw the minimum wage bit in there to distinguish your post from a Labour party record sheet?
329

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 20:05:28
I've just read in the ''Evening Times'' that ''questions'' are being raised about Councillor Dornan's ability to continue to lead the SNP Group on Glasgow City Council. Of course they don't say who is raising the questions. And I've had a wry chuckle at for Foulkes sake's efforts to have Salmond quizzed by Westminster for his part in the attempt to impeach Blair.

Well bring it on to quote a wee wummin. The more the establishment attack the SNP the more popular they will get, especially in North Glasgow.
330

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 20:06:37
#347 Tartan Bond,

You have been punting this - no minimum wage - mantra for weeks now...Goebbels style lie repetition?

Or is there some substance to your claim?
331

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 20:08:14
Are these Labour's tactics now ? To pillory a man for paying OFF a debt, and to attack Salmond ''in the first instance'' for attempting to bring Blair to justice for Iraq ?

I think their focus groups must have been having a laugh when they came up with these strategies.
332

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 20:08:38
351, Observer. Aye, someone's going for broke.
333

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 20:10:15
Err who is in meltdown because it looks like the unionists are judging from this thread. Rationality seems to be a stranger to them.
334

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 20:19:48
Fondue, political style.

As advocated by a struggling press.
335

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 20:22:07
352 The Col. of Monte Cristo

The SNP support a minimum wage of half median earnings, this is somewhat in excess of the Labourtory version of £5.73 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older.

However, the standard Unionist tactics of mis-representing SNP policies are easily refuted on these threads.

That is why they get so easily rattled and quickly descend into drivel and garbage.

336

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 20:27:45
#351 Observer

There are rules prohibiting undischarged bankrupt's from public office.

The thing is...Dornan was never declared bankrupt, he paid his debts in full, according to the Express all he did was sign up to a legally binding deal to get some extra time to pay.

Seems to me he has volunteered himself as the first casualty of The Unionist Presses Anti-SNP offencive, in order to avoid even a tiny bit, of the inevitable avalanche of mud from taking the shine of the bi-election campaign.
337

JC1,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 20:28:48
He's certainly not 'relatively local as he was a candidate in Ayshire then Southside of Glasgow.
Once again the nats are in disarray as they go back to thier old ways of infighting.
338

JC1,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 20:31:34
I seem to remember the nats laying into labout about a similar situation in Glasgow East, before having to present a tailor's dummy of a cooncillor to the electorate wheeled round by salmond. Looks like they've scraped the bottom of the barrel.
339

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 20:32:15
#356 dunedin bully wee 1877

Thanks for the info, I had no idea what their policy was but was fairly confident Mr Pantsonfire would be unable to point to evidence of a desire to remove the minimum wage.
340

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 20:35:21
358, JC1. You wish is what you really mean.
341

brownlie,

13/07/2009 20:36:39
359 JC1

There was no such "similar" situation in Glasgow East.
342

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/07/2009 20:38:00
357 He's not a bankrupt and he hasn't broken any rules in connection with being elected to the Council, or indeed with being elected as an MP. The Council nominated him to sit on the board of their faux Charity they made up to privatise Culture Leisure and Sport. The Councillors all get a shot at sitting on these things to keep them accountable to the electorate. Now no one told him that the rules for sitting on this Board were any different from being a Councillor. As he was only given the gig because he was a Councillor I don't know how he was supposed to guess the rules were different.

I think the fault actually lies with the officials either of the Council or of the Culture and Leisure body that asked for Council representation on their board.

But of course that can't be right can it. Because the Council is run by Labour's golden boy Stephen Purcell, and the Culture and Leisure body is run by Mrs Jack McConnell.

Makes you think doesn't it.

BTW he didn't make a penny out of this. He was doing his civic duty.
343

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 20:38:10
346
Tartan Bond,

"It is the SNP that believes the Scottish electorate is stupid. Promising Utopia..."

Show me this promise of utopia from the SNP. I'd be interested to see it. Because for as long as I've known them the SNP has promised nothing. All they have ever done is hold out the hope of a future which was in the hands of people who care about Scotland and its people - rather than Tory/BLP lapdogs like yourself.

344

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 20:40:53
359, JC1. Do you come over as a joke by accident or is it deliberate?
345

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 20:43:54
347
Ken M

"Forget any comparisons with UKIP or their likes and think in a purely Scottish context."

Sorry, son! You are nowhere near as clever as you imagine. The Scottish Democratic Alliance is a unionist front organisation. A completely transparent attempt to split the nationalist vote.

Who is funding your lost deposits?

346

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 20:46:29
#358 JC1,Glasgow

So someone from Glasgow is not relatively local to Glasgow...You will be a Unionist I expect.

Are you also one of those painfully parochial weegies who think...the Rangers v Celtic game is the greatest football match in the world...Your home town was the "Second City of the Empire"...and that east of the bus depot at Stepps there is nothing but fields full of sheep?
347

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 20:46:50
Well, we'll wait and see what happens come election time.

Eh, no?
348

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 20:52:37
357
The Col. of Monte Cristo

"Seems to me he has volunteered himself as the first casualty of The Unionist Presses Anti-SNP offencive..."

I wish he hadn't. I really wish he'd stood up to the lying, smearing, bullying tactics of the Tory/BLP cabal and their press mouthpieces. Somebody has to.

349

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 13/07/2009 20:52:49
366, Electric Hermit. My lost deposits? I belong to no party.

367, 2nd city of the empire. 0141.

You just have to laugh at the self importance being shot down by the God city they worship.
350

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 20:56:32
I like Eccentric Hermit. He is so predictable. You always know he is about to throw a wobbly.
351

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 20:57:17
358
JC1

"Once again the nats are in disarray as they go back to thier old ways of infighting."

More self-deluding wishful thinking from the Tory/BLP alliance. There is no disarray. There is no "infighting". The guy stepped down. It was in all the papers.

352

Niall M,

Edinburgh 13/07/2009 21:07:28
Whoever wins this by-election will find they’ve been chosen by a tiny minority of Glasgow Easts’ population. With 30% being an optimistic prediction on voter turnout I doubt I’ll be proved wrong.
353

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 21:15:47
373, Niall M. Turnout is irrelevant. Them who are entitled to vote and decide not to do not count.

If it;s a 30% turnout then so be it. Spare no thought for those who can't even turn up and spoil their ballot papers. They deserve no consideration whatsoever.

All that counts is the votes cast.
354

dunedin bully wee 1877,

13/07/2009 21:17:57
373 Niall M,

The electorate of Glasgow East have already returned John Mason as their MP at Westminster.

His seat is not currently open to contest.

What was your point again?

355

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 21:19:23
I'll put 343 another way. I am apathetic towards voter apathy.

Who cares what non voters think? I don't.
356

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 21:19:56
#369 Electric Hermit

I agree : the truth is the truth is the truth...no matter how many linear meters of lies are repeated ad nauseam by "The Scotsman" and her syphilitic bedfellows.
357

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 21:23:09
377
The Col. of Monte Cristo

Dornan should go forward for selection again with all the facts now known. There is absolutely no reason why he should not stand.

358

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 21:28:25
377, Col (B?). Targeting is easy to defend and even easier to turn into a form of attack.

Casting first stones, glass houses and all that.

Besides, there is plenty of political time to resolve this issue. In a safe Labour seat.
359

Jinselkirk,

13/07/2009 21:31:33
The Tory candidate for Berwickshire Roxburgh and Selkirk resigned at the weekend; in the interests of political balance did the Hootsman mention that? (I very seldom if ever buy the paper, one of the many hundreds of lawyers, accountants etc. driven away by a previous editor).
373 - that says more about the daft non p r voting system than anything else.
360

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 21:59:40
Jock - Aye it's me

You are being a little harsh on the good folk who don't bother their backsides to go out and vote.

If it was disillusion with the options available or an objection to the candidate put forward by their preferred Party, that motivated them.

They would collect their ballot paper and write on it..."Nupties the lot of ye" or "You Sir are a Tossspot".

So it can't be that, what they are emphatically declaring is...That they are not much bothered one way or another and are perfectly happy to go along with the majority opinion.

Thefor the real result of the 2009 Euro Elections was
SNP - 80%, Lab - 6%, Tory - 5%, L/D - 3.5%, Others - 5.5%.

361

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 22:08:15
Col. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o

Nothing to do with the topic. My 15 yo son alerted me to this talented Orcadian who moved to Edinburgh.
362

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/07/2009 22:09:36
re 382. More than 8 million hits worldwide.
363

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 22:24:52
#382 Jock Tamson,

No videos found for -: “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o”
364

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 22:25:33

So who DID dish the dirt on the SNP candidate?

Was it the journalist who lost out in the contest?

Or one of Fat N'Eck's cabal, annoyed at their preferred choice being snubbed by the local branch?

It gives a whole new meaning to the phrase 'the enemy within'.

365

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/07/2009 22:35:51
#385 Stan Butler

There was no dirt.

Definitely no intentional wrongdoing and most likely no actual wrongdoing.

To borrow a well worn phrase.
366

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 22:41:16
385
Stan Butler

"So who DID dish the dirt on the SNP candidate?"

What "dirt"?
367

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 22:59:00
So who DID inform the press of the details about Mr Dornan which resulted in him having to resign as the SNP's parliamentary candidate?

Was it the journalist who lost out in the contest?

Or one of Fat N'Eck's cabal, annoyed at their preferred choice being snubbed by the local branch?

It gives a whole new meaning to the phrase 'the enemy within'.
368

Electric Hermit,

13/07/2009 23:05:56
388
Stan Butler

What a sad little nyaff you are. Determined to squeeze some kind of conspiracy out of this. Pathetic!

369

Stan Butler,

13/07/2009 23:44:21


'Squeaky Clean Candidate Required To Resign'

Doesn't make sense, does it?


370

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 00:12:30
390
Stan Butler

He was not required to resign.

You genuinely know less than nothing about this, don't you? No wonder you are making such a fool of yourself. Read the report in a real newspaper instead of this Tory/BLP propaganda sheet.

http://tiny.pl/hhg5v

371

hoblar,

14/07/2009 00:37:12
Quite funny that the three token unionist desperados prefer to make up a load of absolute kak and post it 50 times each.....that'll have the SNP in er, 'meltdown' and no bleedin' mistake.

I can understand their misplaced glee, their jumping around like the Glasgow by election (which has occurred because a new labour Speaker in the house of Commons was forced to resign in pure shame for the first time in the history of the British Union)but why do they have the arrogance to presume that this election is in the bag for labour?

Mental.
372

hoblar,

14/07/2009 00:39:40
Oh, and Mr Hermit....the guy Butler is a troll, he will not say anything that says sense, rather than hang around posting dozens of times in the forlorn hope that he will save the union.

Ignore him, or at least don't address his troll like persona because if you have an idiotic quotation before your own comment, it is a fair guess you are quoting the bizarre rant of one of the few token unionists on here.

You know more than them, don't waste your time on them.
373

Electric Hermit,

14/07/2009 00:48:20
393
hoblar

"Oh, and Mr Hermit....the guy Butler is a troll..."

That was becoming obvious. Nevertheless, the lies should be challenged. And let's face it, challenging these clowns is no great effort.

374

Alba Abú,

14/07/2009 13:12:08
" Nationalists in Meltdown"
This is typical propaganda drivel from a Scottish unionist/loyalist newspaper.Whether the unionist hacks at the Scotsman newspaper like it or not,change is coming and it is only a matter of time before the majority of the Scottish people vote Scotland out of this discredited union.

 

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