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McCain promises radical change



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Published Date: 05 September 2008
JOHN McCain urged Americans to fight for their country, to make history, and to rid Washington of its "constant partisan rancour" today as he accepted the Republican Party's presidential nomination.
The 72-year-old Arizona senator declared "change is coming" as he vowed to "recover the people's trust by standing up again for the values Americans admire".

Mr McCain said America needed to "catch up to history" and "change the way we do business in Washington".

"Stand up, stand up, stand up and fight," he said.

"Nothing is inevitable here. We're Americans, and we never give up. We never quit. We never hide from history. We make history. Fight with me. Fight with me. Fight with me. Fight for what's right for our country."

Mr McCain, who will be the oldest first-term US president if elected in November, was speaking a day after his surprise running mate Sarah Palin electrified the convention floor with strong attacks on Democratic presidential rival Barack Obama, portraying herself as a "pit bull in lipstick".

Several political pundits have since compared her with former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.

Referring to Mrs Palin, Mr McCain said she would "shake up Washington" and that he could not wait to introduce her.

"Let me offer an advance warning to the old, big spending, do nothing, me-first, country-second Washington crowd," he said.

"Change is coming. We need to change the way government does almost everything."

Mr McCain, who has spent more than two decades in Washington, said: "The constant partisan rancour that stops us from solving these problems isn't a cause, it's a symptom.

"It's what happens when people go to Washington to work for themselves and not you."

He added that as president he would "reach out my hand to anyone to help me get this country moving again".

"I have that record and the scars to prove it," he said.

"Senator Obama does not.

"We're going to finally start getting things done for the people who are counting on us – and I won't care who gets the credit."

It was a clear attempt to dismiss Mr Obama's claim that Mr McCain would represent a third term of the failed policies of the Bush administration.

"I don't work for a party. I don't work for a special interest. I don't work for myself. I work for you," Mr McCain, a maverick whose campaign is reaching out to independents and swing voters, said.

President George Bush, one of the most unpopular presidents in US history, played a diminished role at this year's convention in St Paul, Minnesota, appearing only briefly via satellite from the White House on Tuesday.

But Mr McCain did pay tribute to him "for leading us in those dark days following the worst attack on American soil in our history".

The Republican presidential nominee was briefly interrupted by anti-war protesters and the crowd chanted "USA, USA" in an attempt to drown out the demonstration.

Mr McCain received a rousing standing ovation when he talked about his experiences as a Vietnam prisoner of war, which he said had made him "hate war".

"It is terrible beyond imagination," he said.

"I fell in love with my country when I was a prisoner in someone else's.

"I loved it because it was not just a place, but an idea, a cause worth fighting for. I was never the same again.

"I wasn't my own man anymore. I was my country's."

Mr McCain received some of the loudest applause of the day when he declared that a McCain presidency would "stop sending 700 billion US dollars a year to countries that don't like us very much" and would produce more energy at home.

"We will drill new wells offshore, and we'll drill them now," he said.
He also talked about national security, naming al Qaida, Iran, and Russia, and said that, while he would work to establish good relations with Russia, "we can't turn a blind eye to aggression and international lawlessness that threatens the peace and stability of the world and the security of the American people".

"We face many threats in this dangerous world, but I'm not afraid of them," he said.

"I'm prepared for them."

Setting out his aims for low taxes, less government spending and more jobs, he criticised many of the Obama campaign's policies, but also praised the 47-year-old Illinois senator and his supporters.

"We'll go at it over the next two months," he said.

"That's the nature of this business, and there are big differences between us."

But he added: "Despite our differences, much more unites us than divides us. We are fellow Americans."

But he said: "Let there be no doubt, my friends, we're going to win this election."

Mr McCain's political attacks on Mr Obama were also more measured than Mrs Palin's.

"I'm not running for president because I think I'm blessed with such personal greatness that history has anointed me to save our country in its hour of need," he said.

"My country saved me. My country saved me, and I cannot forget it.

"And I will fight for her for as long as I draw breath, so help me God."
Convention organisers moved the stage to centre of the hall for Mr McCain's speech, with campaign aides saying he wanted a conversation with Americans, rather than to simply talk at them.

As tens of thousands red, white and blue balloons cascaded from high above the convention floor, Mr McCain and Mrs Palin were joined by their families on stage before walking into the crowd where they were embraced by the jubilant throng.

In style and presentation, it was a stark contrast to Mr Obama's acceptance speech, which was delivered in front of a raucous crowd of more than 80,000 people on a stage featuring faux columns which resembled a Greek temple, but were meant to suggest the gravitas of a federal building in Washington DC.

The full article contains 996 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 September 2008 9:11 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: John McCain , US elections
 
1

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 05/09/2008 09:54:06
""I fell in love with my country when I was a prisoner in someone else's".

If he'd known about the massacre at Mai Lai, which he probably didn't, would he have been so much in love with his country I wonder?
2

Newman!,

05/09/2008 10:37:02
Which part of dropping bombs on men, women and children in their own homes makes you a war hero? makes you something else in my book.
What would Americans do to someone they had just pulled out of a river who'd just dropped bombes on them?
3

Doh,

05/09/2008 10:57:26


Pity he chose such a rightwing VeeP - were there no centrist candidates that migth have widened his appeal?

I can only hope Obama wins.
4

Kelvino,

NY 05/09/2008 11:27:57
Exactly what does McCain's motto "Country First" actually mean ?

Taking care of our people by not exporting jobs ?
Making higher education available to all ? Providing a health-care system for every citizen ? Keeping our taxes down by not supporting the US war machine on the wrong enemies ?

How about insuring good military jobs for our young men in the hundred-years of war McCain has referred to ? That's good, right ?

This "Country First" motto is similar to "Deutchland Uber Alles," is it not ? The phrase does not have the ring of freedom to me, but repression and conformity to the will of the believers. This is freedom ?

The man is STILL a POW back in Vietnam; the experience is still with him and taints his entire world-view.
He's going to try to balance the scales and take us along for the ride ! Hide the moose !


5

we the people,

05/09/2008 11:43:10
i agree kelvino
the militarism and snarling nationalism was pretty vile from where i was sitting.some of the crowd seemed to be in a religious rapture, a lot of them looked bored. i can't imagine it playing well outside that hall though.
good article on counterpunch debunking the 'hero' myth. seems he got a medal for every hour he was murdering people from the sky, and a number of tales about his explosive temper, lack of judgement, and shameless posturing.
6

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 12:10:55
Let me give some info about Mccain that I think is important concerning his track record, yet few know. When he was on his aircraft carrier near Vietnam in the war he was once in his jet on the deck getting it ready to take off. He used a procedure called a 'wet start' to start the engine. The procedure he used was a poor procedure that the pilots had been discouraged from using as it is dangerous. It involves putting fuel into the engine and then starting it, causing a big flame of fire to burst out the back of the jet. He did this as a joke to harass the pilot behind him in another jet. In this case his 'wet start' procedure caused a missile to fire while the jet was on the deck. mccain heard the missile launch mechanism go off and he knew from this sound that there was a 100% certainty that a bad explosion would occur. He leaped out of the jet very rapidly, I've seen the video of him doing this, the ship had a video camera recording what happened on the deck. He flew out of the jet and ran to safety without warning one single person. many people were on the deck, he made no effort to warn any of them. As soon as he got to safety there was a huge explosion. About 150 US sailors were killed. The officer doing an investigation said the accident was McCain's fault due to him showing off with a procedure they were not supposed to use.

This was not the only incident. He lost about 5-6 aircraft while he was flying. He was known by the navy as a poor pilot, very wreckless who did things that cost several jets. Investigations showed that it was pilot error that cost most of these jets.

Also, there's a lot of accusations against him concerning his time in prisoner-of-war camp. He gave info to the enemy which helped them wage the war. He was particularly cooperative compared to the other men. Should a man like this really be rewarded with a top leadership position?
7

jamurai,

05/09/2008 12:34:07
I'd like to see the evidence of that wally!
The Republicans have made such a huge play on the fact that he was tortured as aPOW in a Vietnam prison while the administration of the SAME party tortures POWs (don't give me the "unlawful combatant" bull) in Guantanamo bay. Just one example of their pure hypocrisy.
8

AJ Fife,

05/09/2008 13:11:43
Wally,

I've seen footage of that missile incident on Discovery. Was it really McCain? If it was, you don't want him near the 'Big Red Button'!!!!

Did he really spill the beans in Vietnam? If he did, the Ruskies will get all sorts of info out of him with a honey trap. Do you think the auld goat uses viagra?
9

Media 1,

cape town 05/09/2008 13:12:01
McCain - A war mongering maniac!
He is asking Americans to fight for their country.
Is this lunatic for real? I dont think you would be able to sleep at night if you ticked his name in the ballot box, it would haunt you for the rest of your life.
10

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 05/09/2008 13:21:50
Where I come from it is a prisoner's of war duty to escape or get back to active duty ASAP. McCain was offered the opportunity of freedom without the danger of escaping and didn't take it.

Where I come from we have a word for people like that.
11

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 05/09/2008 13:33:51
First Palin's speech.
Cracker.
Then McCain's.
Not quite as good, little long, but it got the job done. Especially the ending.
Now Obama's pathway to the White House doesn't look so certain.
Game on.
Hillary must be smiling. Or maybe crying.
12

Kelvino,

NY 05/09/2008 13:45:47
Uner a McCain administration, I would expect that the "Sam's Club Republicans" would slip into being
"Food Bank Republicans." All of our taxes are being sucked into the war machine, we have massive national debt and we are now offered even more of the same !
Is this "country first?"

Watch out, countrymen; this guy has a personal vendetta, a chip on his shoulder, and he has the potential of starting the "hundred years" of war that he spoke of . . .the "bomb, bomb, bomb. . . bomb, bomb Iran" speech from a few months ago. He is no friend of peace and will take us even further down the toilet than the Bush administration.
13

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 13:54:09
Jamurai in 7:

AJ in #8 saw the same tv documentary as I saw on this. but here is a web site that has many articles on it about Mccain.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/index.htm

Yes, that footage you saw on discovery channel showed the actual John Mccain in 1964 causing an accident on-board an aircraft carrier that killed something like 150 US sailors. The thing that impressed me about that footage was McCain's single-minded focus on escaping the accident that he himself caused through a careless disregard of instructions he'd been given WITHOUT ANY ATTEMPT WHATSOEVER TO SAVE ANYONE'S LIFE BUT HIS OWN!!! he caused the deaths of everyone around him, yet he made no effort to save anyone but himself. A man like that should not be raised up to a top position.

Then, please read what else all those war veterans have to say about McCain. Please note that McCain was instrumental back around 1990 at getting all records of US POW's in Vietnam sealed. Many people were very upset over that because there is much documentation that the North Vietnamese kept many Americans and did not return them. It seems that maybe Mccain's motivation for sealing these records as he did was to hide information about himself in those prisons.

Read the documentation, do research on the site I gave you.

http://hope2012.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/songbird-mccain-the-evidence-in-his-own-words-his-fellow-veterans-and-his-captors/
14

drew 33,

duddingston 05/09/2008 14:02:29
I wonder how a Scottish paper attracts all these "democrat" supporters and fellow travellers with their gutter innuendo's and bar-room gossip? Seems they are worried that despite the unpopularity of the Bush administration that Obama with his seedy baggage may well fail to take advantage of an open goal. Of course it is not just Obama, half of the Democrat vote is peeved by the failure of the heinous Hillary aided and abetted by her disgusting husband to get the nomination and Obama having enough sense to tell her to get lost when she tried worm in as his running mate.
15

Wally,

By The Rivers of babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 14:07:41
Jamurai in #7:

that is a very good point about how republicans have brought us the torture institution. Why should anyone reward such people with high office?

Regarding the prisoner experience of the Americans in Vietnam, the Vietnamese applied severe torture to many of them. The Americans developed a new understanding of the POW experience as a result of this. they decided that it was OK for a prisoner to break down and be a collaborator provided that he tried hard to avoid it, provided that he forced his captors to apply a lot of pain & suffering first. The Amreicans put under this torture who did not eventually start to cooperate did not come home, they died during torture. There were many who followed the rules they were given and did that. but most bent the rules and began to collaborate. Mccain referenced that in his speech where the other prisoners counseled him that he had done his best.

The thing about Mccain that Americans should understand is that McCain not only cooperated, he cooperated very strongly and he did not force them to apply a lot of torture compared to the other prisoners. He broke quickly. He says this himself. And then when he broke he gave info that was of real military significance. He also did propaganda tapes for the north vietnamese that were broadcast in north vietnam. He was far far more cooperative than over 95% of the other prisoners.

His 'best effort' to resist compared to the others did not result in very much comapred to the others. So, I don't see why we should elevate such a man to the top position. If you don't believe me, then read the links I gave you.

Also, much info has come from vietnam, laos & cambodia indicating that Americans were left behind and may be in prisons even today alive. Even in recent months some info has come out indicating this. Yet McCain is the one who slammed the door on all efforts to get a better resolution. This man is unfit.
16

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 14:13:38
Drew in 14:

just because I share true stories about McCain does not mean I am a Democrat. I'm a registered Republican, I've never voted for a Democrat presidential candidate and I live in the congressional district where John McCain first ran for congress in 1982. I've voted for him several times. When he first ran for office I went to a Republican meeting where I met him.

Out of simple respect for the American war veterans people should not vote for John McCain. If you doubt me, then please read the links I put up.
17

drew 33,

duddingston 05/09/2008 14:24:50
Well Wally if you are a Republican get out there and do some positive campaigning. You obviously failed to convince your fellow Republicans, now that McCain has got the job show some loyalty to your party and help to keep the democrat mob out of office.
18

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 14:39:58
Drew in 17:

you & I have different values. I like to cite the example of George Washington who said his 1'st loyalty was to god, 2'nd to family and 3'rd to nation. Party loyalty doesn't mean much in itself to me.

The Republicans reached a peak of popularity in the mid-1980's. Its been declining ever since. The only reason they've been able to win elections is because the democrats' popularity is also low.

The people that rule us own our mass media and are powerful enough to control many institutions. They give us our choices and we choose, but all choices we're given are bad. We need to break out of this mold. Ron Paul who was a Republican candidate is the one who was loyal to American ideas. That is who I was happy to support.

The Republicans today are nothing like the Republicans of pre-1930. Paul is a throw-back to that time, we should be loyal to those ideas because those were good ideas. The global empire idea of today's republicans is a fundamentally bad idea very harmful to our country and to the world. Don't blame me for merely speaking the truth.
19

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 14:46:00
Nice to see Snitch McCain agree with Obama on the need for "Change". This guy will say anything publicly to try to try to make out it wouldn't be more of the same old Bush policies if he was elected.
20

Aearnur,

Glasgow 05/09/2008 14:59:47
Certainly if John McClain pops his clogs any time soon after getting elected we'll have radical change alright. Palin may even outdo Bush in the radically stupid policy stakes.
21

,

05/09/2008 15:11:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

mike - across the pond,

wally.... 05/09/2008 15:18:04
I agree with you, ron pauls policies are a throwback to the pre 1930's politicians... although I'm not quite sure either DNC or GOP of that era would recognize OR embrace his views.... but thats something we will NEVER know for sure...

I think I can agree with you on that...

however ALL of our political methodologies have "evolved" since then

the political methodologies of the teens and 20's LEAD us to the depression of th 30's, a world war, and ultimately "the cold war"... to which of those "lofty goals" do you aspire? I'm confused here....

so I'm not quite sure why it is you want to go back to those ideas that PROVED to be an utter disaster...
23

Sandi,

San Diego 05/09/2008 15:18:18
#4 Kelvino,

By "country first", McCain means that loyalty to your country should take precedence over loyalty to your political party. That attitude is what is needed here to get rid of the horribly partisan way our Congress has been operating. Both parties are at fault although, as a Democrat, I'll place more blame on the Republicans. LOL! In his speech last night, McCain talked about his history of working with Senators of other parties to do what was best for the country, and he talked inviting Democrats and Independents to work in his administration. He acknowledged that the Republican Party has lost the trust of the American people and outlined what he would do to regain that trust.

Wally,

Yes there was a horrible, tragic fire on the USS Forrestal in which 134 sailors died. Many more were injured. Many fighter jets were either burned or jettisoned to prevent the fire from spreading. It cost the US Navy dearly in lives and equipment and was very thoroughly investigated by the Navy. Had John McCain been the cause of this, I have no doubt at all that he would have been held accountable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_Fire
24

,

05/09/2008 15:22:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

mike - across the pond,

wally... THINK 05/09/2008 15:36:15
use your head...

keep an open mind... just not so open that your brains fall out...

do you LISTEN to BO?

BO is a Lawyer... a LEGISLATOR...

he thinks about things WAAAY too much...

do you REMEMBER CARTER?

do you WANT that back in the whitehouse?

can we AFFORD that back in the whitehouse?

McCain is NOT my first choice... but BO is close to my LAST choice... I may not agree with his decisions, but at least he's "wired" to MAKE a decision... that means I have more time to think about how I can LIVE with the decisions he makes....

instead of BO who makes a decision... oh wait.. let me think about that some more... hmmm maybe something else... or this.... or that.... leaving you and me standing flat footed trying to figure out what way that behemouth government is going to roll so we can try not to get squished.....

I dont WANT someone in MY whitehouse who cannot make a decision... and then stick to it...

I dont WANT someone in MY whitehouse who does not understand the UN... or willingly puts OUR troops under foreign command...

I dont WANT someone in MY whitehouse who thinks that BIG GOVERNMENT is the answer....

I dont WANT someone in MY whitehouse who thinks that tax increases OF ANY KIND will not HURT the poor... they hurt EVERYBODY... ESPECIALLY THE POOR...
26

Pilrig.,

Livingston 05/09/2008 16:14:01
If the chipman and 'Pitbull Mom' (why can't they pronounce it sensibly , it's 'Mum' )win the US prez election, prepare for WW3.
She's allegedly a Rapturist, so WW3 would suit her.

BOOM !!
27

Sylvia,

Edzell Woods 05/09/2008 16:14:45
GO MAVERICKS! :)
28

Pilrig.,

Livingston 05/09/2008 16:21:03
McCain is exploiting his pow status for political end. Such dignity. My great uncle ran off to join up for the Royal Scots in WW1. When it was found he was under age he was dragged back to my great-grandparents. When he was 18 he enlisted again. In later years he rarely ever talked about the hell he had seen in the trenches. Obviously McCain doesn't have such reticence.
29

MacGillicuddy,

05/09/2008 16:46:24
If McCain and Obama are the best that a huge country like the US can put up for president it does not say much for the rest of them!
30

Sandi,

San Diego 05/09/2008 16:51:45
#28 Pilrig,

McCain has little choice in the matter when the Democrats promote untrue rumors about his Navy career and his time as a POW. He has to address it. He uses it to illustrate his hatred of war, that war is never pretty and is to be avoided. Not avoided at all costs, but only used as a last resort. Unlike W.

Where on earth did you get the "rapturist" stuff from? One of the little details about Palin that you clearly have missed is that she believes there should be a clear exit strategy from Iraq.

IMO, it will make little difference who is elected as far as Iraq is concerned. Obama has already watered down his original opinion and keeps repeating that it will depend on the advice of the generals. I have little confidence that there would be much significant change if he were elected. I am sure, however, that he would be in so far over his head that it would be very scary.
31

Newman!,

05/09/2008 17:07:42
Apparently Joe Lieberman is schooling Palin on foreign policy so certainly no change on the Israel First policy. Same guy who had to teach McCain that Iranians are mainly Shia not Sunni and therefore no friends of Al Quada. I certainly wouldnt be surprised if Palin is a Rapturist.
32

Sandi,

San Diego 05/09/2008 17:37:17
#31, Newman,

"I certainly wouldnt be surprised if Palin is a Rapturist."

Possibly not, but there is no evidence to suggest that she is.
33

Wally,

By The Rivers of babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 18:18:46
Sandi in 23:

there was an investigation of the disaster in 1964 that we've talked about. The investigation concluded that it was the fault of John McCain just as I said. He was an admiral's son who thought he didn't have to follow the normal procedures as a result. Read the links I put up if you don't believe me. He was transferred to another ship after this disaster out of fear of reprisal against him.
34

Sandi,

San Diego 05/09/2008 18:21:30
Wally, I put up a link, which did not mantion that McCain had been blamed for anything.

Why don't you put up a link.
35

Sandi,

San Diego 05/09/2008 18:22:51
Sorry, "mention"
36

mike - across the pond,

um sandi.... 05/09/2008 18:24:11
there IS an exit strategy...

there ALWAYS HAS BEEN an exit strategy...

because Petraus would not put a hard date on the "pull out" does not mean what the dems have been jumping up and down and screaming about.... like a bunch of chimpanzees flinging doo in the zoo...

the Iraqi's are meeting their goals... not as fast as you, I, or any sane citizen would like... but they ARE meeting them... by the plan that McCain went to to the mat with the whitehouse to get.... OVER the strident objections of BO... Biden... and the rest of the uber-left (strangely not so much from Hillary)...

BO and Joe-papa dont like it, but McCain was RIGHT... THEY were wrong... pulling out 2 years ago would have left Iraq in the initial stages of a HORRIFFIC civil war... they are CLEARLY better off today than they were then... and on a path to a better tomorrow than they had in their last 10,000 yesterdays.....
37

Media 1,

cape town 05/09/2008 18:28:33
Of the two candidates in question, Obama is by far the most obvious choice for the white house.

But what America desperately needs is a Non religious President who cuts off Israel's aid...

Then and only then can we hope to move toward peace.
38

Wally,

By The Rivers of Babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 18:32:09
Sandi, palin's church in Wasilla 'Assembly of God' is described as a dispensationalist church. I believe their leader named kalnin does agree with the 'rapture' theology. I don't think the rapture theology is justified at all based on bible scripture and I believe that the bible contradicts it. Most christians do not believe in it. Christians believe that there will be a great separation of the people, yes that is true, but that this will occur after there is great trouble on this earth and after jesus returns. The rapture enthusiasts believe they'll be pulled out of planet earth prior to this great tribulation and jesus' return. That is a minority view in the christian community and completely new to the last 100 years.

That church's web-site has been scrubbed of content. They did prior to her selection have lots of video & audio of their pastor Kalnin, its all been taken down.

Their preacher does speak pro-Republican politics right from the pulpit. He believes in pre-emptive wars against muslims.

You know polls have been done in America and in the arab world as well. Americans are much more likely to favor pre-emptive wars against arabs than arabs are to favor such against Americans. Americans are also much more likely to favor the killings of mass numbers of arabs than arabs are to favor of Americans. This has been documented.

Most Americans are opposed to torture under any circumstances (54%). but Americans are also the most likely to tolerate torture tactics of people all over the world.
39

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 18:36:22
media 1 - a poll that came out just in the last 2-3 months shows that 71% of Americans wish the US government was neutral between Israel and Israel's enemies. Its like I keep telling you, the people that rule America rule with an iron fist. They control our media, our schools and out politicians. and the americans drink the delusions they're given by the tv and their schools and their churches even so that they're blind and can't even see. most christians are not christian zionist and don't support Israel in the insane manner that the government does. Many times I've quoted scripture here to document that the bible does not agree with the christian zionist view.
40

mike - across the pond,

wally 05/09/2008 18:55:20
sir What you are implying is a LIE...

please retract it...

McCain was IN his plane on the flight deck while it is uncertain whether it was his plane THAT WAS STRUCK by the missile, HIS was clearly NOT the plane that the missile misfired from...

your post implies that the forrestal continued operations in SE asia and that if McCain had been a "good boy" could have stayed on there... this doesnt mesh with reality...

REALITY CHECK: the fire on the Forrestal took place on 7/29 and took 24 hours to extinguish.... on 7/31 the Forrestal was sent to the PI for repairs and later on to the Norfolk shipyards... McCain could easily have stayed on the Forrestal, gotten some shore leave in the PI and Norfolk while the Forrestal was being repaired which lasted well into 1968...

Instead McCain requested transfer to the Oriskany... who were short on pilots, and needed leadership.... 3 months later McCain was shot down....

he was not banished... transferred for the morale of the forrestal... or any such thing.

THAT is simply a lie...

please retract it...

or show some CONCRETE proof...

or just admit you will do ANYTHING to get BO elected... and will sit around looking like Katie Couric and Brian Williams on november 6th going on about some immaginary CIA plot to steal the election...
41

Newman!,

05/09/2008 19:19:20
Wally - I think I read that around 10 or 15 million Americans believe in the Rapture, if this woman does then she should not be allowed anywhere close to the missile launch button.

Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k
42

Sandi,

San Diego 05/09/2008 19:34:07
Mike,

I'm pretty much on the same side as you here. Although a Dem. I am not a BO follower, and I think it would be a disaster for the US if he is elected.

I'm disgusted at these smears on John McCain's navy record. It is appalling that people who have never in their lives fought in a war, never mind been POWs think they know how one should behave as a POW. Let them walk in his POW shoes for a day, or an hour, then tell us how badly McCain behaved.

Wally,

I went to the general Assembly of God web site and sure enough, the rapture is one of their core beliefs. Like you, I think it's nonsense. But keep in mind, that McCain needs Palin to appeal to Republicans who believe those things, not to independents or cross-over democrats who do not. He needed her to secure the Republican religious base who are unsure about him. McCain himself does not share those beliefs.

I think BO's religious practice is weird too.
43

mike - across the pond,

wally beating stick 05/09/2008 19:47:21
have to get me a new stick...

the old "wally beating stick" is nearly worn out

wally, you HAVE to stop drinking the Kos/huffington kool-aid... my arm is getting tired lol

you want to paint Palin with the AoG brush...
wee little problem here....
she dropped from the AoG congregation SIX YEARS AGO....

you want to tie her to the "whack-a-doo" teachings of pastor Kilnin(sp?)... or whatever his name is... the problem IS he got there in 1999... and if his teachings rub YOU the wrong way... maybe they rubbed HER the wrong way too... and thats why she changed churches, SIX YEARS AGO.... dont you think?

I mean I'm TRYING to be civil here... but if I get TOO tired my inner troll will come out... then ALL the billy-goats-gruff will have a hard time.... lol
44

Mcsnagpile,

05/09/2008 19:51:58
Plonkett sends congrats to McCain.
45

mike - across the pond,

media1 05/09/2008 20:13:53
you are incorrect...

BO likes to compare himself to JFK... which if you only look at it from an "after he was 30 years old" perspective MAY indeed be appliciable... although everything JFK did after 1950 was at least DOUBLE what BO has done...

the PROBLEM is this...
before they were 30 these men led COMPLETELY dissimilar lives

JFK, his family were HEAVILY involved with foreign affairs and national politics... (even if I dont agree with his fathers views)... and so were all the children

BO... hmmm not even close... BO's family may have had political discussions, but the JFK clan would most likely have been seen as speaking a foreign language to the BO clan...

JFK, he was an officer in the military, commanded a PT boat in WW2 was injured and nearly died...

BO... does not even one day of service in the military... BO cant use his race as an excuse for not serving... by the early 80's the american military heavily favored minorities... this absence of service probably explains why his campaign doesnt understand the IMPORTANCE of his visiting Landstuhl army hospital...

actually the more I look at this the more it looks like JFK and McCain share more than either with BO...
46

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 05/09/2008 20:19:44
Media1..Our Presidents have not pushed their religion on us. Our country is founded on Judaic and Christian principles. Because you are an atheist or agnostic does not mean the US President has to be one.
Have some respect..I know you America Bash, and Bush Bash...but enough is enough. This is an American Election and if we wanted a President who has no faith, we would have nominated one..in both parties.
47

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 05/09/2008 20:25:01
Media1
Obama and Biden both have lied to Israel. Biden claims he is a Zionist, but tells Israel to "live with" Iran getting nukes.
Obama, says one thing to Israel, uses the Wailing Wall as a photo op and tells the media it is all right to publish the note he put in the wall.
He has again changed his mind on Jerusalem. Not many Jews can trust these men.
48

Laurette,

So Cal 05/09/2008 20:55:08
#47 If Obama hadn't left a note, he would be insensitive to the Jewish faith. If he does leave a note, he's naive for thinking nobody would take it. If he avoids the wall entirely, he's something else- heaven knows what.
There is nothing he could do, no course of action he would take that some nattering fool will not find fault with.
It's so much easier than actually doing something constructive. But the GOP has proven that their skill doesn't lie in that area.

How very true - look at Lynne's posting.
49

Laurette,

So Cal 05/09/2008 21:04:30
#47 If Obama hadn't left a note, he would be insensitive to the Jewish faith. If he does leave a note, he's naive for thinking nobody would take it. If he avoids the wall entirely, he's something else- heaven knows what.
There is nothing he could do, no course of action he would take that some nattering fool will not find fault with.
It's so much easier than actually doing something constructive. But the GOP has proven that their skill doesn't lie in that area.

How very true!
50

Newman!,

05/09/2008 21:17:14
Lynne its time that US foreign policy was a little more even handed in the Middle East instead of just being blindly loyal to Israel. Whether you like it or not that is the reason that America is so widely mistrusted and disliked all over that region and not just by what you'd call the haters and fanatics.

I don't expect a rational response btw.
51

Media 1,

cape town 05/09/2008 21:51:21
Lynne

You stated that your nation is built on christian principles. What are those Christian principles? War, destruction and chaos? Kinda like the bible!

If you knew your history you would note that your founding fathers were almost all athiests. Jefferson was indeed a man of reason over blindfolded faith.

Thus far, America and her religious Presidents have bombed the hell out of many nations and dropped an Atom bomb on Japan on 2 occassions. I think it's time you found a President with no religious baggage!!
52

57Nomad,

california 05/09/2008 21:54:04
#10 lhtt

lhtt said:

"Where I come from it is a prisoner's of war duty to escape or get back to active duty ASAP. McCain was offered the opportunity of freedom without the danger of escaping and didn't take it.
Where I come from we have a word for people like that."

We do too. We call them heroes. John McCain was being tortured every day when the Commies realized that they were holding the son of the Fleet Commander. They offered him a release hoping for a propaganda coup. But, the code of honor for the prisoners was this, the guy who was there the longest was the guy who went home first. By turning down this offer John McCain kept faith with his fellow Americans and subjected himself to four more years a daily torture, mistreatment and solitary confinement in a room measuring 6' by 4'.

And now you, you slimy grime worm, disparage his courage and patriotism? Disgusting.
53

Media 1,

cape town 05/09/2008 21:57:08
Lynne

Here is the thing! America HAS nuclear weapons. Therefore, all other countries should have them to. End of story!
It is not up to you or me to determine who can and cannot have them. It was America who commissioned science to develop such horrific weaponary, it America and America only who has used atomic energy against another nation, therefore, it is quite hypocrytical for America to point fingers at other nations.

In terms of Israel! I respect the Israeli people and understand that 99% of them just want to live in peace. The same can be said of the Palestinians. However, when it comes to the leaders, Israel's willingness to move toward peace is almost non existant. Israel is the aggressor and it is time that all her foreign aid was cut off.
54

Media 1,

cape town 05/09/2008 22:01:10
57Nomad

Here is the thing. In a world without men like McCain, nobody would encounter the horrors of war...
Men like McCain and Bush are war mongers, end of story! They are different to Osama Bin Laden in many ways, but their underlying principles are the same.
55

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 05/09/2008 22:07:13
Mike & Sandi, my description of USS Forrestal events is 100% correct. John McCain caused the whole thing. and the navy's investigation concluded that. he used a procedure that all the pilots were told not to use. he did it to show off. and it resulted in 164 deaths according to a web site I saw. I saw the actual video on the Discovery channel years ago where John McCain threw his pilot hatch up, and bolted out of the jet and to safety without warning anyone. it is just as I described. McCain was transferred to another ship for his own safety afterwards.

Be patient, I'll find a link & give it to you.

Sandi, regarding your rapture comments. I don't think the rapture enthusiasts are ridiculous. I do disagree with their interpretation. There will be a great separation of the people by god. When judgement comes that is when the people will be separated. All of the people will be judged, including those alive and dead. This is standard christian theology. But the bible is very clear that this will come after a great big of trouble on this earth called 'great tribulation' in the bible. The believers will live through these events, just as everyone else. and there will be much suffering. The rapture enthusiasts believe they'll be taken out prior to this happening. This is not biblical at all. But I don't think them to be ridiculous.

As I told you before, Sarah Palin's church is dispensationalist, they believe in the rapture before this 'great tribulation'.

and I don't think Reverend Wright to be ridiculous either.

John McCain is the enemy of every single American who served in the vietnam conflict. that is also fact. and if you bothered to check out the link I gave you above, then you'd know that.
56

SouthernGent,

05/09/2008 22:24:47
#53
"It was America who commissioned science to develop such horrific weaponary"

You say this as if out of the blue they decided to "make a bomb". Please remember in what context the work was commissioned. The world was at War, and it was essentially a race to see who got it first. Do you ever wonder what would have happened had Germany beat us to it? (no snide remarks needed).

And you again left Obama off your list of warmongers. Tsk, tsk.
57

Kelvino,

NY 05/09/2008 22:50:58
I'm curious regarding the complete LACK of any mention of Obama's RACE in any of the posts I've read for the last week. What is NOT being said by Republicans is deafening in a very racially-divided country. It appears to be the one unmentionable, the one item that is off-limits, even to Obama's harshest critics.

Does his race bother no one, or is it simply his "lack of experience" that concerns you ?
58

SouthernGent,

05/09/2008 23:18:38
#57
It would be political suicide for both parties, but it isn't as cut a dried as you might think. Don't think for a minute that party affiliation has anything to do with it. More like how and where one was raised. There are an awful lot of "backward" families out there still flying the rebel flag. The "Bradley effect" may very well come into play, and the polls will mean nothing. I can tell you there are many good ole boy democrats in the south that either will not vote or vote for McCain just because he is black. As for the black community, many have said publicly that they will vote for Obama just because he"s black. We won't know until november.
59

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 06/09/2008 00:22:48
Media1...too bad you don't know what you are talking about. McCain isn't a warmonger. He dislikes war intensely.
He was 4 years old when his father left for WWII and he didn't see him for 4 years. He was gone most of his young life. His grandfather came home from the war and died the next day; another relationship lost.
Then 5 years in a prioner of war camp, that made putting panties on peoples' heads look like a frat party.
It's your hatred driving you...because you should realize that by dropping those 2 bombs the war was ended. But to an appeaser that's to hard to see. You are one hatemonger to say the least.
60

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 06/09/2008 00:45:16
Laurette, he has admitted to telling the newsmen that they could publish his note.

He managed NOT to go to the hospital in Germany because no cameras were allowed. He, instead went to the gym. He didn't care then either.

61

2dogs in D.C.,

06/09/2008 02:05:25
This would be change to the political party that has been in control for, what, almost a decade?
62

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 06/09/2008 03:03:53
Sandi & Mike,

I gave you good links on McCain and all you can do is pick at me. It is just like I said concerning McCain above, and if you’d bother to look at the links you’d find much explosive info on McCain that will demonstrate he is someone we should not select. Sandi found an account on Wikipedia that is slightly different from what I said on the Forrestal events. I still stand by my account as told above. However, I can’t find the same documentation that existed on the web a few months ago. I did find lots of other info on McCain that if you had any decency, then you’d be interested in.

Here’s a link with the transcripts of the propaganda tapes that McCain did for his communist captors.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_declassified_landing.htm

It has the McCain interviews broadcast both in Cuba and in North Vietnam on November 9, 1967. Please note that these are official US Department of Defense documents. McCain praised the communist war effort and said that things were going badly for our side. Read the transcript of his broadcast on June 2, 1969 to South Vietnam where he says that he was a war criminal. Please view the 5-part video by Colonel Earl Hopper who with his wife spent decades doing research on behalf of the families of men taken prisoner in Vietnam. He claims that McCain gave info of military value to the North Vietnamese and that this enabled them to kill Americans.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/aug08/mccain_unfit.htm

Here’s a link showing a letter written by 2 former Republican congressmen that say McCain abandoned the American POWs in Vietnam. That is the general story-line and there’s much documentation on this in the links I’ve given you. Suspicion is that he wanted the records sealed to protect his own reputation. Can’t you comprehend that something is wrong when as a US Senator he was communist Vietnam’s best friend in the Senate and when he was a POW he was a songbird doing propaganda tapes fo
63

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 06/09/2008 03:04:56
Can’t you comprehend that something is wrong when as a US Senator he was communist Vietnam’s best friend in the Senate and when he was a POW he was a songbird doing propaganda tapes for them?

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_whybestfreindvietam.htm

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_secretworldofmccain.htm

here’s a link about how McCain did lose 5 aircraft as a navy pilot (not counting the many aircraft other than his lost on the Forrestal)

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm

There are many links associated with these about McCain’s temper. Did you see the video of him throwing a rage at the woman who represented POW families including her brother who never came back? His yelling was so intense in a public hearing that he made her cry. Various congressmen & senators have been quoted in newspapers saying that he throws temper tantrums and that this makes him unfit.

Look at the many videos & links available from this one link following.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/index.htm

I know that the late Colonel Hackworth had a big following. He was a highly decorated soldier in Korea & Vietnam. As a full Colonel he led an infantry battalion in Vietnam from the front. A colonel that went out in the field with his men! Read what he says about McCain.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_hacker_2.htm

Other links will show you other POW’s who knew McCain in the communist prison and who accuse McCain of being a collaborator while he was there.

I think the story is just as I said it above. And you all get upset that I say this. Sandi wants a female elected and nothing matters but that to her. Mike wants everyone to idolize our leaders no matter how bad. Don’t blame me if we’re ruled by an evil anti-American clique bent on creating WW3. I’ve only told you the truth.

Also, note the other link I put up way up above where many mai
64

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 06/09/2008 03:06:01
Also, note the other link I put up way up above where many mainstream articles are linked to documenting some of these things. I gave you many links and all you did was complain.
65

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 06/09/2008 03:33:07
see this link.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_straighttalk_ted.htm

McCain looks at that photo of the 3 letters that spell 'U S A' that are 12 feet tall and 37 feet wide, and McCain says it means nothing. He says it is not possible that Americans are alive in north Vietnam or Laos. and he sets policy on that premise.

When I was a boy a man in my neighborhood was shot down and he never came back. For all I know the man in my neighborhood that was shot down was one of the prisoners working a rice field that made that image. and then Senator McCain ridicules it in 1990 when he's a powerful senator setting policy. I don't like that. and you should be able to tolerate me not liking that.
66

Imelda,

06/09/2008 05:21:56
59
Lynne

Thank goodness, US owns nuclear bombs which helped to end WWII. If not, the Japanese dogs would have slaughtered so many more civilians in China and during their conquest of South-east Asia. Miseries and hardship everywhere! My post #73 in the other comment section -
http://news.scotsman.com/world/America--will-stand-by.4461923.jp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
67

Let's have the truth,

In a bomb shelter 06/09/2008 05:29:37
#52 Nobrain

"And now you, you slimy grime worm, disparage his courage and patriotism? Disgusting".

Don't give me that rubbish. It's common knowledge that if a US soldier cuts himself (or herself) shaving they are recommended for a purple heart.
68

mike - across the pond,

wally... the superman... 06/09/2008 05:33:49
hello wally...

earth to planet wally...

I've been nice... tried to talk reason to you... you're getting SOOO far from the rails that its just absolutely pathetic....

show me where I said I idolize mccain... or even think hes the best guy on the planet for the job? never happened... YOU however seem to have been drinking deeply from the BO kool-aid trough... quoting the Kos... and Huffington...

your mccain derangement syndrome has clearly derailed reason....

you think that there is no point where you can be broken? you claim that you would die before you broke? do you know ANYTHING about the mental aspects of torture? start with Pearl S Buck... go on to Bronson's "the evil that men do"... you think you could stand up to ANY of that?

btw your "declassified landing" link appears BROKEN... it directs you to McCain a collaboration site... bet you didnt READ it, DID YOU???? it shoots itself in the foot REPEATEDLY

the code of conduct....
article 1... nothing there
article 2... nothing there
article 3... mccain complied...
article 4... thats all well and good wally... the REALITY is this clause has been ammended with the same clause I quote in article 5(and I was IN the military, that was indeed the code in 65 by 83 they had acknowledged that TORTURE can break ANY person)
article 5.... let me quote.... "to the utmost of my ability"... so you are questioning what "the best of (McCain's) ability" is? are you questioning McCains broken body? are you justifying the NVC's "treatment" of our troops? are you saying that YOU would have done BETTER? I MOCK YOU!!!

let me break both arms, one leg, crush your shoulder, bayonet you a couple times... throw you in a cell for 2 weeks.... come in beat you off and on... did I mention medical care... nah you get NONE of that... just a bit more kicking around... think I could get YOU to say just about anything you could think to get me to stop???? I bet it wouldnt take
69

Let's have the truth,

In a bomb shelter 06/09/2008 05:34:12
#66

"Thank goodness, US owns nuclear bombs which helped to end WWII".

However dropping the bombs was totally unnecessary as surrender was actively under discussion.

Surely you know that the bombs were dropped to demonstrate their power to Russia.

It just so happens that hundreds of thousands of lives were lost for political purposes.

So what's changed?
70

,

06/09/2008 05:35:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
71

mike - across the pond,

lhtt.. 06/09/2008 05:37:49
so you are volunteering 1 million aussies to land on the japanese mainland?

THAT was the projected troop loss

just curious.... how many aussies are in your military?

READ A HISTORY BOOK DOLT!!!!!
72

Let's have the truth,

In a bomb shelter 06/09/2008 05:43:19
#71

"READ A HISTORY BOOK DOLT!!!!!"

Would that be an American history book or one from somewhere without an axe to grind?
73

Let's have the truth,

In a bomb shelter 06/09/2008 05:44:52
#70

"I bet it wouldnt take a couple days before you'd be singing like a little yellow canary...."

How long did it take McCain?
74

mike - across the pond,

hey wally 06/09/2008 06:01:29
I dont have my foil cap liner....

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_mccain_crash_five_planes.html

can you tell me if this is a CIA site?
75

mike - across the pond,

lhtt.. 06/09/2008 06:15:08
mccain crashed on 10/26

first "interview" for cuban radio... 11/9

2 weeks...

you tellin us you could deal with 2 weeks of torture....?
76

mike - across the pond,

lhtt.... 06/09/2008 06:28:22
history book

pick one... read it...

justify japanese unit 731 and vivisection
READ the testimonials of the japanese doctors that havent been able to sleep at night for more than 65 years.... trying to cleanse their consciouses before they die...

read about the japanese knockoffs of the german ME262

defend the WW2 era japanese military machine... just say thats what you are doing...

trivialize yourself...
77

mike - across the pond,

lhtt.... 06/09/2008 06:34:10
demonstrating power to the russians...

that would be Bikini Atoll...

after pottsdam, truman was ENDING the war in japan... before russia could get involved... creating another situation like europe...

granted Stalin didnt understand what truman was telling him at pottsdam surrounding atomic weaponry, but Truman was not "showing off"