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Man who vetoed 'Trumptown' loses his job

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Published Date:
13 December 2007
THE man who used his casting vote to reject Donald Trump's plans for a £1 billion golf resort was sacked from his post yesterday - after being told he had acted with dignity and integrity.
Martin Ford was dumped as chairman of Aberdeenshire Council's infrastructure services committee (ISC), which last month turned down the Trump proposals on his casting vote. Mr Ford said the decision to axe him sent out the "wrong message" about the integrity of the planning system.

Before yesterday's special meeting of the full council, placard-waving opponents of the plans protested outside the council building.

And after the vote - when some 26 councillors voted for Mr Ford's removal, with ten backing him and 29 abstaining - one protester in the public benches shouted: "Shame on you."

The full council gave its backing to the controversial application, which will now be determined by the Scottish Government after it was "called in".

The authority also agreed to change its procedures so that large-scale plans of regional or national importance will, in future, be decided by the full council, not a committee.

The Trump organisation's plans for two championship golf courses and 1,500 homes at the Menie Estate, near Balmedie, had been approved 7-4 by the council's Formartine area planning committee on 20 November. But the matter then went to the ISC on 29 November and, after a 7-7 tie, Mr Ford used his casting vote to veto the application.

While the decision was hailed by environmental groups, who said the project would harm the sensitive sand dunes at Balmedie, there was a huge political and commercial backlash, with claims the council had lost a golden economic opportunity.

On 4 December, the Scottish Government called in the application and the decision now rests with John Swinney, the finance secretary, with the council only an "enhanced consultee".

The plan will be decided by written submissions, a public hearing or public inquiry, although the council wants a "hybrid" process of written evidence and hearings on contentious issues, to save the time and expense of a full-blown inquiry.

Yesterday it emerged more than 14,000 people have signed a petition on the Downing Street website to urge Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, to support Trump's proposals.

But 14 of Scotland's leading environmental groups, including the Scottish Wildlife Trust and RSPB Scotland, yesterday sent a joint letter to Mr Swinney insisting a public inquiry makes the final decision, not politicians.

After yesterday's meeting agreed to tell the government the council supported the scheme, John Cox, an independent councillor, proposed removing Mr Ford, a Liberal Democrat, as ISC chairman. He said the decision to reject the Trump plan had "ruined years of hard work and made the council look incompetent".

Joanna Strathdee, an SNP councillor, said she had the "utmost respect" for Mr Ford, but added: "This motion is about whether the present chair of ISC can positively represent the policies of this council."

But Debra Storr, a Lib Dem councillor who backs Mr Ford and was assaulted at her home after the plan was rejected, said: "I didn't think I would ever see the day when a colleague would propose the removal of a chair of a committee for doing his job the way we are all expected to. When you have a councillor who has behaved with dignity and integrity faced with a motion to remove him, that is a disgrace."

Mr Ford said he had acted properly and in accordance with normal constitutional practice.

He said the council's actions raised fundamental issues about credibility. "If a media campaign or an applicant who does not like the results puts enough pressure on the chair of the planning committee, the chair will cease to be the chair of the committee," he said. "How can councillors] in future prepare to take tough decisions if this is what they can expect when they do something right, in line with council policy? This threatens our democracy."

• Alex Salmond's meeting with Trump representatives the day before ministers intervened in the planning application could leave the proposals open to lengthy delays, it was claimed yesterday. Labour's Jackie Baillie said his actions could see a legal challenge which would hold up the process and insisted Mr Salmond address Parliament on the issue.

IT'S NOT PERSONAL, JUST BUSINESS, SAY COLLEAGUES ON COUNCIL


MARTIN Ford found himself in the unusual position yesterday of being praised for doing his job properly, yet finding himself removed from his post.

Since casting the vital vote which effectively threw out Donald Trump's proposal to build the "greatest golf course in the world" near Balmedie beach, the councillor has been publicly vilified for threatening to let a major economic opportunity slip through the area's hands.

One leading businessman called him and fellow councillors who rejected the plan "traitors", while the council moved to reverse the decision before it was called in by the government.

Yesterday majority opinion pushed Mr Ford out of his post as chairman of the infrastructure services committee. His colleagues all praised his integrity. It was not about his actions on the committee, they said. He acted properly and according to council policies and practices. It was about the future of the region and the need to diversify the economy and give out the message the area was open for business.

Anne Robertson, leader of the council, said: "It was not about any individual, or any part of the process or procedure. We all agree his integrity and principles are intact.

"It's absolutely about the future of Aberdeenshire Council and how they deliver the vision that they have signed up to."

Even George Sorial, Mr Trump's right-hand man, said: "We take no delight in what's happened to Councillor Ford and we wish him the best."

Mr Ford did not fail to see the irony of his situation: "Naturally I'm disappointed at the outcome. There was no suggestion of any slur on me or that I did anything improper. It does, then, seem perverse that I have to be removed."

As chairman of a leading committee on the council, he received £27,041 in allowances, but a return to a regular councillor will mean he gets the standard allowance of £15,452.

The full article contains 1049 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 December 2007 12:59 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 01:32:44

"The full council gave its backing to the controversial application, which will now be determined by the Scottish Government after it was "called in"."

Can we hear from the unionists who complained about local democracy being over-ruled?

2

,

13/12/2007 01:33:31
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3

,

13/12/2007 01:34:44
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4

druidh,

13/12/2007 01:34:48

The council is elected to carry out the wishes of its constituents. Regardless of the rights & wrongs of this case, Cllr Ford does not have the backing of the majority in Aberdeenshire.

Oh - and can you stop with the Jackie "Rent-a-quote" Baillie already. She wasn't as chatty on Newsnight when asked about Wendygate.

5

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 01:36:58

2. No, it was the Aberdeenshire council who voted to remove this person, as they felt he was not acting in the interests of the area.

The review of the plans has support of senior MSPs of all parties.

Nice try to smear the SNP with Labour's current sleaze, but as usual no basis in fact.

6

robthom,

abdn 13/12/2007 01:37:27

The vote did not represent the majority will of the Council because only 36 out of 68 voted and 29 voted against. This is a disgraceful outcome from Aberdeenshire Council which should have shown faith in its own procedures and should not have given in to external media and financial pressures. This is very worrying for the future of democracy in Scotland when a rich foreign developer can engineer this shocking result in local politics.

7

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 01:38:00

4. Indeed - Jackie Baillie seems now to be an expert on all matters legal and relating to codes of conduct. Pity she didn't have that expertise when Labour were raising their illegal donations.

8

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 01:39:36

6. 10 voted against. Vote the council out if they are not acting in the interests of the area. 80% of local people favour the plan, so it seems they are.

9

,

13/12/2007 01:40:27
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10

syntax,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 01:42:18

Of course the Council are wrong to fire him. I always understood that if any committee vote was hung and the Chair person had to cast the deciding vote, then they had to maintain the status quo ??

In this case, the Chairman would have been wrong to vote the golf course through. It was his duty to vote the way he did (regardless of what he actually believed !!) If enough Council members did not have the majority to carry the vote, then again, the Chairman was correct in his action.

Hitler is alive and well in the SNP........

11

Banff Loon,

Banffshire 13/12/2007 01:44:37

The vote to support the Trump plans, - because they could not approve the application as such, because it is now out of their hands - was entirely in favour by 63 votes for with only Martin Ford and Debra Storr voting against. 65 of the full council of 68 were present. The Libdems(bar 2), SNP, Conservatives and Independents were all in favour. 93% of the council voted for. 80% of the population polled were for.

12

,

13/12/2007 01:46:07
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13

syntax,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 01:46:18

Clearly #9 is being intentionally provocative (and totally wrong). Most of us don't drink Buckfast (it's pretty rank), fewer and fewer Scots smoke, and we are only taking back some (not nearly enough) of the oil revenue stolen (and admitted) by the English government.

The English government has stolen from Scotland for 300 years and more. Time for us to split !!!

14

Col. Blimp IV*,

13/12/2007 01:46:36

If he had opted to act with integrity.

He would - in view of the local area committee's support of the application - have kept his extra vote in his pocket.

And referred the matter to the full Council.

Of-course he knew what the end result would be and he was also aware what the overwhelming majority of the local residents thought about the matter.

But Nimby's Know what's best...

15

,

13/12/2007 01:47:24
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16

Banff Loon,

Banffshire 13/12/2007 01:49:37

I forgot to say that the local Labour MSPs and Labour Councillors in Aberdeen city were in favour of Trump's plans. Aberdeenshire has no Labour Councillors, MSPs or MPs. Thankfully Trump won't have any Labour politicians from Aberdeenshire to bribe with illegal donations.

17

subrosa,

13/12/2007 01:52:36

#10 Somehow I think you're incorrect. From my understanding the vote by his committee was 7/7 and, having spoken to my own councillors about this matter, he should have vote to pass the plans back to the full council and not voted against. Perhaps I'm wrong but that's what would have happened in this neck of the woods. Seems all councils have differing rules - perhaps the SNP can make them clearer to the electorate sometime.

18

Faye,

13/12/2007 01:53:17

Disgraceful.

Aberdeen City Council Planning Department has just proven that it is a free for all, for the rich.

Next episode? Trump plan goes ahead, without an Appeal.

SNP has shown political meddling in planning matters.

After this, SNP can not be trusted with an independent Scotland. For the future looks like a dicatorship.

Mr Ford acted with honour. Pity the same couldn't be said about his employers.

Mr Ford can walk away with his head held high.
Shame on Aberdeen Council.

And anyone who thought about Independence can forget SNP for the way it has treated the people of Scotland over the Trump affair.

Good bye freedom to roam rights. Gated beaches for the rich.

Aberdeen's message post Mr Ford? Probity, what probity!

19

Col. Blimp IV*,

13/12/2007 01:54:29

syntax #10 - #13

Epiphany?

20

Banff Loon,

Banffshire 13/12/2007 01:56:16

Aberdeenshire is a Libdem/conservative controlled council. The SNP are the minority opposition. It was the Libdem council leader who called the special meeting. I was an Independent councillor who called the vote of Non-confidence which passed 26-10 with 29 abstentions, 3 councillors were absent. If you wish to comment on the matter, research your facts first. And smearing the SNP for the sake of it just makes you all look silly.

21

,

13/12/2007 01:57:30
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22

Banff Loon,

Banffshire 13/12/2007 02:02:22

Faye, you are barking at the wrong council. It had nothing to do with Aberdeen City and nothing to do with the SNP. You should stop your rant now. Its better to be silent and thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

23

Eric (Goat Master),

Aberdeen 13/12/2007 02:04:25

The problem with Martin Ford...

He was elected by the people to represent the people... but... failed to understand this and believed he was elected to represent his own personal agenda.

He would have done well to remember his civic responsibilty to the electorate.

24

Faye,

13/12/2007 02:05:14

Lesson for those who voted for Mr Ford's removal

Standards and Probity

High ethical standards are a cornerstone of good governance and help engender trust and confidence in local democracy.

They are achieved by all holders of public office, such as the elected members of local authorities, their co-opted members and employees demonstrating the levels of probity and conduct which the public has a right to expect from them.

The next step was an Appeal. Not 'smoke and mirrors' and a done deal behind closed doors.

#10 Indeed.

25

Maisie from Morningside,

MORNINGSIDE 13/12/2007 02:05:39

What a pity the councilors couldn't arrange to build homes for their own citizens but are falling over themselves to build posh holiday homes for the insanely rich.

It looks like D Trump won't have to buy toilet paper again with all those grovelling Aberdonians to tend to him.

26

Banff Loon,

Banffshire 13/12/2007 02:15:21

Standards and probity. Aberdeenshire needs to take no lessons from the central belt about standards and probity.Why is the Northeast the object of abuse? Is it envy because: we are prosperous, with virtually no unemployment, no racism, sectarianism, class hatred or bigotry, have lots of wide open spaces, the Royal Family spend all their holidays here, the First Minister is MSP for the area, Billy Connoly has a castle here. Tell us the real reasons for your gripes. We want to know why our fellow Scots hate us so much.

27

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

13/12/2007 02:55:44

He voted against the wishes of his fellow councillors and the North East public did he not. Don't quite understand the sacking though

28

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

13/12/2007 02:58:05

26

I have long promoted the idea of building another divide in Scotland to rival that of the Catholics and the Protestants, the East and the West and the Haves and Have nots.

Its called the North and the South.

29

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

13/12/2007 03:00:01

Lets face it, these are the idiots who give away the oil, want to turn down a billion quid investment because it is not in the central belt, die younger than some Africans, and sing religeous bile when the cameras are turned off.

30

Martin Ford is My Hero,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 03:02:29

Faye is right . . . Alex Salmond invites us to take our place in the 'arc of prosperity' as an independent, forward-looking nation - whilst undermining the confidence of its duly-elected representatives.

Does anyone know why so many councillors abstained? Is it because a vote to retain Martin Ford would inevitably be taken as a rejection of Trump's plans? Surely there are two seperate issues here which have been conveniently muddled. No one questioned the integrity of Martin Ford, but they couldn't vote to save him without endangering the Golf Links Project.

Surely the level of abstention suggests this motion was flawed and should never have been tabled at a Council meeting?

31

Canny Mann,

Scottish Borders 13/12/2007 03:18:44

The way I see it, is the area to be developed will need many people to build, maintain and service the golf courses and homes.
We have military bases closing in the area which would lose many people thier livlihood. Many local businesses/shops will close as the support and servicing they supply will no longer be required.
Donald Trump may be distasteful to some peoples palate, however we would do well to have his entreprenuer skills displayed in this country. Our young entrepreneurs leaving university will have no better a teacher than Donald Trump.
Having a couple of hundred well heeled home owners will be the equivelent of the closing bases.

We may be able to persuade these rich buyers to become nationalised Scots after 5 years or so. These high powered people are not going to appreciate the interference of Westminster when they dream up thier grand ideas for Scotland.
Having highly motivated, independant minded business moguls, who have not been tainted by the class structure in our country, could be the momentum to persuade Scots that being independant is profitable.

Scotland is open for business.
Foreign investment is out there waiting for a green light from the Scots. Scotland needs to welcome these businesses. Scotland needs to engage with the world or we lose the power of the "World class" brand that is "Scotland"
Scotland the home of golf, is being given two world class courses. The patrons will visit more than just these two but other courses in Scotland also. Increasing tourist revenue throughout the rest of the country. Increasing employment as the knock on effect comes in to play.

Not in my back yard.
Is not good enough for our country. Scotland needs to be on the world map even more than it is. We should get Trump or someone of his ilk to open another development on the west, maybe around Fort William or the Western Isles. Provide even more emplyment and open up the highland

32

Scozzy,

Aus 13/12/2007 03:20:16

Looks like the LOONatics have taken over the asylum.

This is absolutely shameful and an embarrassment for all right minded Scots.

33

Sierra Foothills Scot,

13/12/2007 03:47:24

The Scots Tossers publicly flaunt their general ignorance by believing Princes Street is named Princess Street (in #12) and apparently believing "Zeig Hiel" is German (in #9).

They must sit about on their backsides drinking pina coladas and smoking cheap cigars - all supplied by Scottish subsidies, heaven forbid going to work in a Bahamian resort when you can scrounge from Scots.

To quote "syntax" (#13), Scots "are only taking back some (not nearly enough) of the oil revenue stolen (and admitted) by the English government.

34

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 03:48:46

What does the best golf course in the world look like? Why hasn't someone built it before? Did they build it and I wasn't looking? I hate when that happens.

Are the holes bigger?

Does the ball go in the cup more often, or just the regular 18 times a round?

Will the wind always be at your back?

Does the sun always stay out of your eyes?

Do you eagle every hole? Double-bogey every hole?

Do you always have a lot of fun even if you can't hit yer hat?

I've always felt Scotland had the finest golf courses in the world because nobody really tried to build them, they just sort of were shaped over time by mother nature like The Old Course, Muirfield (Old Tom certainly didn't move a lot of earth), etc etc.

A beautiful thing about Scotland is that its been left alone. Can we convince Trump to build his thing but still "leave it alone?" Will Trump understand? I don't even think I do.

35

langtonian,

scotus 13/12/2007 04:13:55

#1
Executive

36

fergiewergie,

Chch, NZ 13/12/2007 04:17:36

no. 15, what is Zeig Hiel mean ?? Don't think they exist in any European language.

Looks as if you are the one who is a Bahamian Tosser.

37

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 13/12/2007 04:17:58

On yer bike, Martin!!!!

What we need on the council are rational people capable of making rational decisions. Not green fanatics or fanatics of any colour.

38

langtonian,

scotus 13/12/2007 04:18:59

#5 ,7,8,
Your figures.

Trump Gazumped the scottish Executive

39

langtonian,

scotus 13/12/2007 04:22:16

#14
Hindsight slavering.

40

langtonian,

scotus 13/12/2007 04:27:54

#23
Idiocy gone mad

41

2Right,

On Location 13/12/2007 04:46:04

No-one should ever be sacked for doing his job, After all they asked for his vote and thought him competent to give it, therefore they should have abided by it.
Absolutely Appallingly Shocking.

What right does anyone have to oust someone because his vote never went the way they wanted.

SNP should be ashamed of themselves.

42

fred bloggs,

13/12/2007 04:54:01

In a few years time rising sea levels will destroy this white elephant, and, sadly, the SSSI.

43

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 04:57:40

Who voted for this clown in the first place? Stand up and be counted!

44

Radge Roberto,

13/12/2007 05:05:48

Mr Tosser - Wishful thinking is one thing, but calling yourself after your favourite pursuit is another thing altogether - maybe Mr Scots Tosser couldn't find any Scots to toss off when he last visited so instead had to travel to the bahamas for a real challenge as they're mainly homophobic across there.

Can you imagine the poor Bahama people having to put up with someone so rude - he'd probably be a nightmare if you didn't get his cocktail right or didn't congratulate him on his perfect mince - your comments are really unwelcome here mr tosser and your written guff is like children throwing stones from the other side of the river and running away - give us all a break and go and toss someone else off.

45

Kingston,

Singapore 13/12/2007 05:14:23

What a dark place Scotland is!

I suppose the councillors who voted to remove Mr Ford are anticipating free golf memberships!

It's surprising how easily people can be bought!

46

Bret,

New York. USA 13/12/2007 05:32:46

#15 Thank you for pretending you are from or live in the Bahamas. Yeah...we are all convinced!
Bahamas in Newcastle ...or was that Durham?

47

Northern Lass,

Canada 13/12/2007 05:43:59

Walk tall Mr. Ford. Sad that the people of Aberdeen can be bamboozled by the likes of the Donald. The bullying tactics of the councillor Cox and the 29 councillors who "abstained" sure doesn't give the impression of "Independent" minded Scots. - Oh wad some power etc........

48

Beth Boyle,

Trumped in Trump State, USA 13/12/2007 05:45:28

So sad this is. I am so surprised this could happen in Scotland. Corporate Greed has ruined this poor man and he was so couragous!

49

Radge Roberto,

13/12/2007 05:47:24

One thing Scotland always clearly show's is that there is rarely middle ground. It's always been a place of extremism.

This chap Martin Ford may have been technically right to use his vote, but the Council did approve the scheme and therefore my feeling is that he was wrong in knocking it back, notwithstanding that the system is therefore also wrong if a vote of the Council offers the opportunity to change a decision it has made - other than outside of the Council system.

It's an interesting arguement - people on here saying democracy is dead in Scotland - is the Council not a publicly democratically elected body, by the people, for the people of that area ? If so and they voted for this application, then it was a democratically arrived at decision - it then get's knocked back effectively by an individual ? Is that democracy ?

There is an opportunity to get a decent result both ways in all sorts of things - defining by agreement I know is a novelty but it works quite a lot - this project will bring employment to some, prosperity to some, opportunity to some, and could show that Scotland is a place where investment can be sensibly planned and structured.

There are a lot of smart people in Scotland who could make a real difference to the country but most chose not to, predominantly I suspect, becasue they know the system and know they will be shot down in flames so what's the point.

There are numerous developments around the globe that are built in environmentally sensitive areas and by agreement all interested parties get on with it and structure the way forward - I can't imagine that Donald Trump (not withstanding the bad rinse and combover) would want to be held responsible for killing off bird species, ravaging beautifiul beaches and being known as a development tyrant as he is in the business of making money.

Call me short sited but there are plenty of places not just around the globe but vey close to us that would snap th

50

T M,

LA,USA 13/12/2007 06:07:08

#36 Exactly!!! Trump will say anything no matter how ridiculous to get what he wants. Trump knows that he can't create a course to rival traditional Scottish links. Organic courses designed as much by Mother Nature as by man, that have evolved and matured over the decades. Unfortunately by the time everyone else realizes he can't do it, it's too late. His course in Los Angeles is very poorly designed, and over priced.

#32 ??????????? "Our young entrepreneurs leaving university will have no better a teacher than Donald Trump."
He has had problems with many of his real estate projects in the US, has had to declare bankruptcy, and will shill for any cr@p that comes down the pike...
How is that a good example??

51

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/12/2007 06:07:23

Welcome to nationalist-run Scotland. It's a scary place to be if you disagree with the first minister (or any of his rich chums for that matter). As a country we should be ashamed of ourselves. Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the development, the character assasination of Mr Ford by the media and some nationalist supporters should turn the stomach of all democrats in Scotland.
I don't care what the political make-up of Aberdeenshire council is. When those councillors saw that one of their number was being singled out for this kind of personal attack they should have defended him. Instead they chose to join in. God help us all.

52

Royster,

13/12/2007 06:20:44

A disgrace to local democracy. You can't move the goalposts if you don't like the result.

53

Cappo Del Monte,

13/12/2007 06:25:43

Obviously wiggy trumpton is at his usual bullying tactics.
As for the planning committee, the vote was 7-7 when this guy used his casting vote, surely they should sack the whole committee, or were the other 7 who voted against it, really wanting it

54

calum,

Banchory 13/12/2007 06:27:53

Any Council Committee is only there to deal with business on behalf of the full Council. If that Committee had not acted in the interests of the Council - and its Chairman has clearly forgotten who he is meant to represent - it is right and proper that the full Council deals with it appropriately. Ford has abused his position, has used his p[arty for his own ends and has corrupted the political system so good riddance. Senisble action at long last in Aberdeenshire for those who have to live long term with declining indistries and the need to attract as wide base of investment as possible, and that includes tourists enjoying the game that Scotland gave to the world!

55

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13/12/2007 06:42:48
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56

Dueronomy,

The Lowlands 13/12/2007 06:51:27

So Martin Ford was removed from his job as chairman of a committee for doing what he was supposed to do. Is this the concept of democracy in present day Scotland and, if it is, I for one don't want anything to do with it as it stinks. Perhaps this will become the norm in Scotland when we are lumbered with the warped sense of independence proposed by two salaries Salmond and the SNP.

57

,

13/12/2007 07:06:47
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58

,

13/12/2007 07:14:30
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59

Disenfranchised,

Reality Check 13/12/2007 07:28:17

Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire councils, elected by the punters, are investing hundreds of thousands of pounds in trying to sustain the economy of the north east.

With their partners in ACSEF, the local economic forum, they have signed up to an economic manifesto. A key aim of this manifesto - which is fully endorsed by the priavte sector - is to avoid a repeat of the calamitous events of the mid 80s when the oil and gas industry decided to stop doing business. And the dire consequences of all our eggs in one basket became uncomfortably clear to all.

The $1bn Trump Development is hugely important in helping to meet the objectives of that manifesto.

The local committee recognised this and, despite their clear concerns over environmental impact, approved the Trump application.

Councillor Ford, chair of the key economic committee in Aberdeenshire council, fully aware of the manifesto - and the significance of the Trump Development to it - appeared to allow his personal bias to overshadow his appointed role. His commmittee was split, the local committee had approved. He should either have abstained - allowing the decision to be referred to full council - or gone with the general direction of the democratic process and cast his vote in favour.

The fact that he did neither is the reason he had to go.

60

Stanley Unwin,

Greetings to the Nimbys 13/12/2007 07:38:31

.............and sent them homewards tae thing again.

I watched the local news - how dare these incomers and goodlifers come in and tell Scots how we should develop our own country.

This in a way is as a result of apathy in local politics.

Get yous asses away from the goggle and google boxes folks, and reclaim local politics for the 'silent majority'. You can make a difference.


Ford out etc.

61

Montague X Burton,

13/12/2007 07:44:32

As we are told on a daily basis by the British Nationalists on this site, "yer oil is running oot", it is good to see the elected officials of Aberdeen council finally doing something about their counties long term future, by removing the embarrassing notion that Scotland is not suited to overseas investment.

The enviromental impact of the Trump plan on the dunes actually safeguards them and the wildlife infrastructure they support, better that than to slip off with each turn of the tide.

If a bunch of wealthy people want to live in a gated community in a hitherto unhospitable spit of land and pay for the privelage...and support local employment who are we to complain?

This whole farrago reminds me of the proposed marina at Vaternish may years ago. The born and bred locals desperate to rise above subsistence farming voted unanimously for it, the former holidaymakers and now wealthy resident incomers opposed it, they of course won the day and Vaternish limped by on nothing more than fresh air and views.

62

Kornelius,

Planet fatherless 13/12/2007 07:47:44

Yon tree huggin guffy Ford wis the loon it tried ti stop i aberdeen runway extension, the bypass, the new pittodrie, etc. He had to go!
If it wis up tae him we'd be a livin in caves.
Bye Bye and good riddance.

63

Sinnerman,

Another Planet 13/12/2007 07:48:25

I can't say that I am really interested in another golf course. I'm still too young to start playing the game. However, I am slightly alarmed by some of the posts that consider that councillors and members of a parliament are there solely to do the bidding of the majority of their constituents. I trust that upon reflection these posters will reconsider this opinion. Our elected representatives should place the good of all before the wishes of the majority.

Remember Hitler came to power by those in government acceding to the perceived will of the majority.

64

Media 1,

cape town 13/12/2007 07:50:08

We need forward thinking people who are interested in Scotland's future, not backward people hell bent in taking Scotland backwards, he had to go!

This development will go ahead, it has to. If it does'nt it will be detremental to any future investment...

The bottom line is that golf is a global game and developments will continue to be built the world over. The main objective then, is not to look for environmental problems, but to create new methods of development that put the environment and the golf courses in concert. Such technology already exists, and it will become more popular as we go. We cannot simply say no, we need to say yes and then work on new ways of finding harmony in the environment and the course. THAT IS FORWARD THINKING, not regressive bile......

65

David MacVicar,

web 13/12/2007 07:51:52

I am not aware of all the pros and cons of the trump development but I am concerned that this guy got the sack. Posters blaming the SNP for this episode are just lashing out like a rabid dog as they have nothing intelligent to say but are somewhat in pain.

I believe 2 SNP councilors also voted against this development in the first place. Given it was 7/7 and is of national importance it is proper that a higher responsibility takes a close look at it imo.

Martin Ford maybe voted how he read it, maybe he was biased, who knows. He did not seem to break any formal procedures and he certainly didnt appear to break the law. HE is a casualty of vested interests and booted out for making a decision people some maybe the majority didnt like. This is therefore a gross injury to democracy. Abrerdeenshire council has become a coalition clique coterie to mirror the Lanarkshire model. Both different yet the same.

Why is it that this guy gets booted out for following procedures and and an unpopular decision yet Wendy and coterie saunter on after sheer ignorance, cover ups and breaking the law?

Trump is laughing all the way to the bank, the locals appear happy with the overturn, overall I thibk the development will do more good than harm but it the whole thing now smells to high heaven and Fords sacking is nothing but a modern day lynch mob!

66

Mikey,

13/12/2007 07:53:19

Actually, the phrase is 'Sieg Heil!'

And for all you Brit Nats, it was ABERDEENSHIRE council that made the decision! No wonder Scots think that unionistas are thick!!!

67

far enough away from skotland to feel safe...,

paris 13/12/2007 07:57:50

freaking shamocracy...
makes me wanna puke.

68

Monorail,

Poor Journalism 13/12/2007 08:02:42

I was at the meeting, and this does not reflect what happened on a number of points:

1. No one shouted "Shame on You" - other things were shouted however;
2. The motion to remove Councillor Ford was not on the basis of the decision he made, but the strong media coverage since and claims by business people that they could not work with Councillor Ford going forward;
3. The council did not gove their full support to the Trumpton development, no vote on this was carried out and fewer than a dozen councillors spoke.

The Edinburgh local paper is very poor, perhaps the article would have been better if they sent someone to the meeting.

69

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 08:03:30

Martin Ford did not vote by tradition to maintain the existing position, Aberdeenshire planning had already approved the application.
Martin Ford used his casting vote to reverse that decision.

70

malkster,

Scotland 13/12/2007 08:07:33

The truth is almost irrelevant. The facts are.

1. Council turns down Trump plan.
2. Alex salmond meets with Trump.
3. Scottish Government review decision.
4. Chairman sacked.

That is going to be spun very badly and is a naive performance by the SNP.

71

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

13/12/2007 08:07:35

IS THIS THE DEATH OF LOCAL DEMOCRACY IN ABERDEEN?
MARTIN FORD ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE TO REPRESENT THEIR INTERESTS REMOVED FROM HIS POST FOR USING HIS CASTING VOTE AGAINST A PLANNING APPLICATION WHICH THE OTHER CLLRS. ON THE COMMITTEE HAD VOTED EQUALY ON!
WHY BOTHER HAVING A PLANNING SYSTEM AT ALL IF YOU SACK SOMEONE FOR VOTING WITH HIS HEAD AND HEART AFTER INSPECTING ALL THE FACTS? THE COUNCIL IS NOW A UNDEMOCRATIC LAUGHING STOCK.
I AM BUSY DRAWING UP PLANS FOR A MULTI MILLION POUND MASSIVE HOTEL SKY SCRAPER, WILL EMPLOY 1000s OF PEOPLE AND I WILL PUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ABERDEEN ON THE MAIN STREET, HAVE DECIDED JUST TO START BUILDING NEXT WEEK WHY BOTHER ASKING ABERDEEN COUNCIL FOR PERMISSION WHEN I AM GOING TO PROVIDE A MASSIVE INVESTMENT AND PROVIDE JOBS?
IF ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR TRUMP TO WALK OVER EVERYONE ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE SANNY HILTONS GROUP!

72

Rod5577,

Glasgow 13/12/2007 08:08:58

In its role as an "investigative" newspaper perhaps the Scotsman could find out on what grounds Martin Ford make his decision. Clearly it could not have been based on the wishes of the majority of his constituents and not for the financial benefit of the area. As for all this nonsense about democracy it was clear then, and it is clearer now, that the majority of this country was against the illegal invasion of Irag but it still went ahead. The one man in Britain who could possibly have stopped it is now the Prime Minister. The Liberal "Democrats" could have stood on their principles and announced that they would no longer be involved in a coalition with a party who gave support to the illegal invasion but it seems that positions of power are more important than principles.

73

GrahamH,

13/12/2007 08:09:29

Fanatics with personal interest have no place in local politics. Those that voted for trams in Edinburgh against public support remain secure for the moment though.

74

Beth Boyle,

Trumped in Trump State, USA 13/12/2007 08:13:47

This is very dirty business indeed. Laird Trumpy had Ford taken ooot.

75

Dueronomy,

The Lowlands 13/12/2007 08:20:07

#82 Rulesbutnorulers

Don't speak your mind in Scotland or 'they' will silence you.

And things will get worse when we become the stalinist Republic of Scotland. And why would a stalinist state want two championship golf courses. Aye right, they will be the playground of President two salaries Salmond and the party elite. The proletariat will not have a look in or a voice.

76

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 13/12/2007 08:21:51

Martin Ford manipulated the process to promote the cause of unelected/undemocratic pressure group interlopers. He chose to ignore the views of the local area committee, his planning officials and his electorate.

His double standards/double voting caught up with him yesterday

77

Linda,

13/12/2007 08:24:28

It should be noted that even the flaky Lib Dem Councillors abstained on the vote and failed to back their colleague Ford. It seems they must regard him as a loose cannon.

78

Ayr-Swipe Scut™,

13/12/2007 08:27:41

King Alex the tyrranical has just destroyed local democracy.

The SNP party, our great leader, must now be consulted on every matter.

A elected official can no longer vote on the matter the way they should knowing full well if the rich foreigner who has King Alex the tryrranical in his pocket does not like the decision he can be voted out on "no confidence".

No confidence in what you may you. Not competent in voting the same way as King Alex the tyranical would want, that's what! Democracy is dead.

79

Patricia,

Tarbert 13/12/2007 08:27:43

Not being a local of Aberdeenshire like very many subscribers I don't know all the ins and outs of the Trump planning application. However, the ignorance being shown on this site of the workings of Local Government and chairmanship in particular is quite appalling and typi.cal of the armchair critic As the SNP group consists of 22 members and the council 68 members by no stretch of the imagine could they carry out some wicked feat without the assistance of some of their Conservative. Liberal or Independent colleagues

80

Linda,

13/12/2007 08:28:09

A bit ironic for Jackie Baillie to invoke a legal challenge when she claims not to know the law over illegal donations which she conspired to hide.

81

Linda,

13/12/2007 08:30:36

Anti SNP ranters like Ayr-Swipe Scot should read posting # 87 and I repeat the fact that the vast majority of opponents of this huge economic development are outsiders or incomers to Aberdeenshire.

82

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 08:33:07

This whole episode has opened up a very nasty Unionist vs Nationalist can of worms. I've been called a 'white settler' on here on a number of occasions (even though nobody knows where I'm from!). I hear comments about peoples accents ( you don't have to have a 'local' accent to come from the area) Salmond is stirring up this up, he's turning Scotland into a banana republic.

I can't believe the ridiculous comments about Martin Ford being a eco-fanatic .......he followed the council's protocol. Read the minutes from the meeting, read how many policies were contravened, 15 I think in the local plan alone! If peolpe could be bothered to inform themselves about what is actually going on here, rather than believing the crap in the Evening Express or that spouted some thick
hotel owners, then they might have a different opinion on this story.

83

Goggsy,

South Torry 13/12/2007 08:34:05

Martin Ford was sacked for failing to take into account the wishes of the overwhelming majority of his constituents. It's clear now where his loyalties lie, and it isn't to the people of Aberdeenshire, but no doubt his new-found status as eco-martyr will guarantee him a job with one of the fringe groups he represents when he loses his councillor's salary at the next elections.

However, he is right about one thing. The last couple of weeks have been madness, and the madness lies with those who want to prevent £1 billion of investment in the tourism industry on a piece of land that nobody cares about or uses. As the SSSI is 15 miles to the North of the site (at the mouth of the river Ythan) none of the points made by opposition groups make any sense, unless they're motivated by blind prejudice or the old politics of envy, which wraps itself in a green flag these days.

84

Queen D,

Glasgow 13/12/2007 08:36:20

Read post 75 and all the other posters who come from the area.
Aberdeenshire council is a mixed bag of parties and NOT SNP dominated.

My own thoughts are if a vote on something of this magnitude is tied then it should be referred back to full council.
Mr Ford has lost the chairmanship,he has NOT lost his job!

85

maximus007,

aberdeen 13/12/2007 08:37:32

good riddance mr ford...i hope you will be voted out at the first opportunity.

we need to get the lick spittle councillors who hold us back out and mr ford you seem to be their chosen face

Goodbye mr ford you are the weakest link

86

Elvis G,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 08:40:40

Linda (87)

Lib Dem cllrs are a spineless bunch who sat on their hands to avoid being pilloried in the press. Whether or not you agree with Ford he has a democratic right to take a view on the matter.

Yesterday's vote means that developers with suffiicent clout rule supreme.

Those who use the 80% in favour of the plan no doubt believe that because there is huge public support for the return of capital punishment that elected members should simply roll over and agree to that as well?

And as for Brian Adam MSP calling for Ford's head two SNP cllrs voted against. Does he think that they should go too?

87

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 13/12/2007 08:43:30

#79 You are right - regardless of the facts (whatever they are - each side seems to choose their own - and why not)

More people will remember the failures of this episode regardless of any benefits (if any) that come.

#26 You are joking right? "we are prosperous, with virtually no unemployment, no racism, sectarianism, class hatred or bigotry" - is this the same Aberdeenshire that's in the NE of Scotland not Aberdennshire in Magical Fairy land?

88

McMom,

CALIFORNIA, USA 13/12/2007 08:51:52

I live in the desert, where we have more golf courses than people most of the year. Our economy survives because of our golf courses, visitors and people taking up the new homes, large and small. While it is the local joke about the amount of courses, which need watering and constant maintenance, they do provide jobs, and revenue and I don't think Trump is so terrible that he would build a lousy golf course or two, or wretched homes with wretched gates. The world moves on, everything changes, and if environmental concerns are written in indelible ink, then I fail to see why not build up the area. For many months it might just be impossible to play much golf, there, because of the inclement weather, but it would still be maintained and some people might even stay year round. There can never be another St. Andrews, but there is no reason not to develop an area that could be useful and fun. I would rather have a golf course or two, than a sewage site, or leaking barrels of spent uranium, or a painted toys from China disposal site, masquerading as housing for the poor. If solitary is needed, aren't there enough outer isles to fit that bill?
All that has to be done is to think deeply about what is there, right now, then show the plans and what it would look like when it all is finished, and imagine the effect on the region; if it comes up for the better, go for it. If it comes up, not much better, then leave it alone, for now.
Scottish people can stand fast in the face of a gun loaded with money, or they would be living somewhere else, less dramatic, like the Bahamas... #2,3,9,12,15! You are in love with the word Jackboot, I see. It was past your bedtime, anyway.

89

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 13/12/2007 08:56:57

#92
He did not follow council protocol he manipulated the process to promote the views of interloper pressure groups and ignored the views of the local area committee, his own planning officials and the overwhelming majority of the electorate.

People eventually did check what was going on here and yesterday was the consequence for Mr Ford.

Your condescending attitude to local people, thick hotel owners, EE readers does not help your cause and only confirms local suspicion about the elitist incomers who know best.Their mission to save the natives from themselves and elevate them from their state of ignorance

90

Richard Taylor,

13/12/2007 09:00:16

#80, your ignorance knows no bounds.

Trump's development is in AberdeenSHIRE.

The council that had to vote on it - & made a complete arse of it - was AberdeenSHIRE.

The CITY, whilst, yes, in the main supporting it, could not actually VOTE on it. You can argue whether that was right or wrong given it's only just beyond the city boundaries.

If the local people want it - they do, if the council concerned want it - FINALLY, they say they do, then WHAT's THE PROBLEM?

We should turn down this sort of investment should we? On the say-so of treehuggers, huggy-fluffs & eco-freaks? NOT A CHANCE.

91

,

13/12/2007 09:02:31
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92

connaughtboy,

13/12/2007 09:05:00

#40

Government

93

Dickhead Toiler,

Up His Own Arse 13/12/2007 09:06:22

#104 Dick - you are so far up Trump's rear end you are in danger of giving him a tonsilectomy.

94

connaughtboy,

13/12/2007 09:07:31

#49 DSA

You have mis-quoted. Should be "The love of money is the root.... etc". A completely different thing.

95

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 13/12/2007 09:09:17

#105 She should, but she won't.

96

Highlander53,

Aberdeen 13/12/2007 09:09:55

The planning commitee was correct to reject the plan. 500 new houses = 1000 cars trying to cross the river at rush hour. The queue already starts at Balmedie at 7:15. A new bridge was previously rejected by the councillors on environmental grounds.
Has anyone worked out the economics of this golf course? Sit down and do the sums and it amounts to jobs for Polish immigrants. Then there is the shortage of low cost housing for them. It may actually cost the council tax payers of Aberdeen money rather than be the cash cow for Scotland.

97

connaughtboy,

13/12/2007 09:10:31

#68 sinnerman.

You cannot be serious! Re-read your post and marvel at its crassness.

98

Nikostratos,

13/12/2007 09:11:14

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory!
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name.
Sae famed in martial story!
Now Sark rins over Salway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where Trumps's province stands --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!


What force or guile could not subdue
Thro' many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The American steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But Trump's gold has been our bane --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I'll mak this declaration :-
'We're bought and sold for Trump's gold'--
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

99

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 13/12/2007 09:11:33

Aberdeenshire Council has disgraced itself whilst the world looks on.

Shame on you, indeed.

100

izzie,

dundee 13/12/2007 09:14:37

so the lib dems sack their representative for acting with integrity but Labour back their soiled leader for lbeing 'economical with the truth.

Why did Wendy solicit donations of under £1,000
When did she know?

101

connaughtboy,

13/12/2007 09:16:03

#91 linda

What's your point?

102

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

13/12/2007 09:16:39

#110 Although in principle I support the development, there are concerns - not just environmental by the way - that have me worried. The biggest of all is Trump himself - his past record is mixed - he has produced some very successful projects - and others less so. He also has a record of shafting his "friends" either by taking them to court when things don't go well or when things are going too well he reneges on property deals.

If we are dealing with Mr Trump we should do so with our eyes wide open - he's the sort of man who, if I shook hands with, I would count my fingers afterwards. Any dealings with him need to be absolutely watertight and gone over with a fine toothcomb.

103

,

13/12/2007 09:17:11
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104

JayJay,

Right here 13/12/2007 09:17:15

It is indeed a blessing that we have the Very Reverend Jokie Baillie keeping us right on all matters of ministerial probity. Her reputation for truth, honesty, decency, straight talking and indeed dignity when faced with impertinent journalists from Newsnight is an inspiration to us all.
Long may she reign over us!!

105

,

13/12/2007 09:17:25
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106

Allo Allo,

Scotland 13/12/2007 09:17:57

It is quite disgraceful that an elected local councilor and chair of a planning committee should exercise his legitimate consitutional voting rights, then find himself the subject of being hunted down by the media, pressure groups and losing his job.
The councillors who voted for his removal should be ashamed of themselves. They have acted improperly.

It is outrageous that the decision of a council can be influenced by narrow-minded commercial and political interests. The interference of Alex Salmond in the affair makes a mockery of democracy.

For once, a decision was made on environmental grounds, as must be our primary concern in considering development proposals, if we are to tackle the threat of climate change. No amount of improper pressure should be able to influence the decision to turn down this unnecessary and irrelevant planning application.

107

A. Puschkin,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 09:19:48

Nicostratus - SUPERB!!

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory!
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name.
Sae famed in martial story!
Now Sark rins over Salway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where Trumps's province stands --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!


What force or guile could not subdue
Thro' many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The American steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But Trump's gold has been our bane --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

As a nation we have been out trumped ...
The RSPB has " " "

Beaten by the $

108

Hamish MacBeth,

NZ 13/12/2007 09:20:23

Oh, and I forgot this is about a land deal to build 500 plus houses on land that was never going to be zoned for housing. He'll build this, sell up and move on, leaving an eyesore.

109

Bobo,

13/12/2007 09:20:25

What a load of tosh from the crazed grasping at straws unionists. Desperate to get one back on the SNP after months of success in government and incompetence and law breaking from the opposition they jump at what they imagine to be an example of tyranny and Nazi-ism and let fly with all kinds of ludicrous accusations about the government and First Minister.

Let's just get a few things straight:

Ford lost his job in a Council in which his own party is part of the ruling coalition. His own party was unable to secure majority support for him in his post.

Opposition to and support for the development came from councillors in all parties and those in none.

It was clear that the vast majority of local people wanted the development.

Alex Salmond is the local MSP so has a constituency interest in the matter.

The Scottish government is interested in encouraging wealth generation in Scotland.

To suggest, as a large number have done on this board, that the government's role in this project - i.e. the development of a golf course - has anything in common with systematically murdering millions of Jews, Slavs, gypsies, homosexuals and political opponents; abolishing other political parties; destroying the national economy and embarking on a wholly destructive war that would plunge the whole world into conflict for years does nothing but show the ridiculousness of the unionist position and those who argue for it.

110

connaughtboy,

13/12/2007 09:20:42

#105 inanswer to your question, no.

111

connaughtboy,

13/12/2007 09:21:40

#109 why should she? The circumstances differ in each case.

112

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 13/12/2007 09:22:39

#107 YUP...your point being...?

LOVE the name btw... ;-)

113

Number 6,

In The Clubhouse. 13/12/2007 09:29:19

At last, real democracy in action. The wishes of the overwhelming majority being heard at last.

You can imagine the posse of journalists fighting to get Jackies view. I can't wait.

114

A Crofter,

Western Isles 13/12/2007 09:34:16

26 brown envelopes - just in time for Xmas!

Planning consent was stitched up in April 2006 by Salmond and McConnell.

Why bother waiting for Swinney (who called in decision) to rubberstamp the plans? It's a done deal, whatever anybody says or thinks.

If we in Scotland can't look after a small piece of our natural heritage, what hope of persuading Brazil and Indonesia to protect the world's disappearing rainforests?

115

Ayr-Swipe Scut™,

13/12/2007 09:34:46

124 Bobo

What are you on about you trumped up little ape? There is no unionist position on the matter - it has nothing to do with the union.

An elected representative in Scotland just got sacked for using his own vote freely.

Let me say that again.

An elected representative in Scotland just got sacked for using his own vote freely.

There is only an SNP position on this one, and that is that we should follow King Alex the tyrannical blindly down his road to an independent fascist police state where the rich man and wealth creation for the state come above democracy and basic freedoms such as voting without fear of reprisal from on high.

And that's just for starters - never mind the hypocrasy of years of accusing "unionists" of selling Scotland off to foreigners (ie the English) - after a few months Salmond and the SNP are literally selling Scotland off to foreigners in the very real sense.

It is appauling how stupid the SNP support is and it is like dawn of the dead watching the SNP in power. My only concern is will I still be allowed to vote to these tyrants out?

116

I GAVE BLAIR THE FINGER LAST WEEK,

OBAN 13/12/2007 09:36:25

The whole of Aberdeenshire is in the grips of a landlord rules OK regime most of who serve on all the Local Councils the same faces wherever you gon no-coincidence that they all have landed interests around Dee-side and would wish the staus -quo to remain the same.Good on ya !Alex and the SNP Scotlands interests at heart..not the Waffs from DEESIDE

117

james 1st,

nz 13/12/2007 09:36:40

this was in fact a decision which was much too important to be left to a small committee. it should have been decided by the whole council in the first place. the full council may have rejected the proposal also , or may have passed it. as i have said however it was much to big a decision too be left to a relatively small committee

118

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 09:38:11

Clarry wrote:

'We don't slag you off only because you are an 'incomer'. We don't only slag you off because of your views.

We slag you off because you are a certain type of person usually with a different acent who is not a democrat and does not believe in democracy.

You want to impose your limited views (views not shared by the majority of people) on the rest of usl.

Keep pushing the petition. Bit like flogging a dead horse.

Hopefully you will push off on you bike, or cart and horse, back to Angloland'

I noticed a survey was published on Monday that uncovered the extent of racism and bigotry in Scotland....very disturbing stuff, have you read it? Funny thing is that individuals like you don't even know that you are racists......is this the image of Scotland that you want to promote to tourists.

Don't be surprised when nobody wants to come to Scotland!
Democracy does't exist when 29 councillors dare not cast a vote!

119

scottish person,

paisley 13/12/2007 09:38:26

Scotch Tossers...
Since when did the Scots start scrounging from the Bahamas? You are just a stupid little english person who cant even own up to being one.
Aberdeen council were quite right getting rid of the tree hugging sandal wearing idiot who could not see the benefite of a huge complex for the area. The amount of jobs and income to the area will be fantastic.

120

Red Tower,

Dunoon 13/12/2007 09:44:44

#15 It would be difficult for Scots to translate "Zeig Hiel" as the Germans wouldn't even know how to translate it. As for your reference to "Scotch", the only Scotch is whisky.

If you are going to write emails get your terminology right.

121

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 09:53:54

Anyway the hot news is that Trump is moving on! he's fed up with Aberdeenshire! Hurrah hurrah

Apparently he his dissapointed in the lack of support for 'company' decisions by Aberdeenshire Council and AS . He would have re-applied eventually as it was all part of the game but Aberdeenshire and Salmond made it too easy for him, there was no sport in it! oh and their constant grovelling made even him feel sick!

122

walter,

13/12/2007 09:54:00

He acted with dignity and integrity but was still sacked "WOW" are the other 7 members who voted against also being sacked?.
I believe the council voted to accept Trumps application, it then went to the planning committee to study the application and weigh up all the pro's and con's.
After studying the application 7 members voted to accept it as it was and 7 rejected it, the chair cllr Ford had the deciding vote and voted against.
No one voted for the development not to go ahead outright.
Under the process of these things Trump had 2 choices either negotiate on the concerned areas and then resubmit the application or to appeal the decision.
If he had appealed the decision it would have ended up in the hands of minister from the Scottish government.
Instead of taken one of the 2 choices available in such matters he decided to make threats if he did not get his own way.
The reason and circumstances surrounding this application being called in is a totally different matter all together.
It is normally the case where accepted applications are called in for various reasons, it is highly unusual for rejected applications to be called in as when appealed they end up with the very people who call in these applications.
The shambles that this has become did not start with cllr Ford's casting vote, it started with Trump refusing to follow due process, the SNP accepting Trump did not have to follow due process and calling it in and now the council sacking cllr Ford.

123

McMillar,

Fife 13/12/2007 09:54:03

Good point #139. Vote carefully next time and keep a close eye of who wants to be in the chair! Ford has been removed as chairman, that’s all. He was clearly pursuing a personal agenda and it was found to be completely out of step with the vast majority of local people. I think he also shot himself in the foot when was quoted as saying the deal was dead and could not possibly be overturned.

124

conservative,

Fife 13/12/2007 09:54:07

Whatever happened to the idea that councillors (like MSPs) were supposed to vote on their own views and NOT simply represent the views of their constituents on every matter?

No confidence in the man because he doesn't share our views eh? Some idea of freedom there.

125

Scottish Girl,

13/12/2007 09:59:04

Non-sensical. He did his job to the letter of the law and still they vote him out, and they acknowledge that! Sad, sad situation. I cannot believe Trump is managing to squeeze out all of the petty backstabbing that is Scottish politics.

And speaking of petty backstabbing:

#103/130 Clarry

What kind of dessert do we not live in? Mousse? Blancmange? I would say Aberdeenshire is more Arctic Roll - cold, cheap and lacking in substance (if your posts are anything to judge the area on).

Also, "Your" means belonging to you. "You're" means you are.....

Clarry baiting - could be a new sport?! :)

126

FISHWICK,

13/12/2007 09:59:41

Ford let his personal views impinge on his role as chairman. His casting vote should be used to ensure that the wishes of the whole council and planning department, acting for the good of the region as a whole, prevail. End of story - he had to go, no matter how sincere his committment.

127

Scottish Girl,

13/12/2007 10:00:36

my error, 138

128

Bobo,

13/12/2007 10:01:33

#131

Oh dear, more drivel about fascism. You can't stop yourself.

129

AJ of Fife,

13/12/2007 10:01:38

It would seem the Aberdeenshire council has acted in a responsible way, which is completely in-line with the Scottish Govt.

The decision to call the plans in, is completely vindicated by the council's actions.

It's a great example of the new relationship between the Scottish Govt and the regional councils.

130

Lesley Hinds,

13/12/2007 10:04:30

144 walter

Well said. It is a pity that Trump is the first developer in Scottish history to require such special treatment. He wont amend, he wont reapply.
He will issue threats and ultimatums.

Very sad day, at least Martin Ford can take comfort from the fact he behaved with integrity.

Welcome to the new Scotland.
A land of vilification and intimidation.

131

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 13/12/2007 10:04:35

#126 Because as Mr Salmond himself admits as the local MSP he can play no role in the planning process and as First Minister he is not allowed to interfere and yet that appears to be what he has done.

If he wanted the government to play a role - surely there were ways to do it without creating this shambolic affair which has made a mockery of due process.

In the end it just looks like Alex is cosying up to Trump ir anyone with money - that may not be the case - but it is how it looks.

132

Scottish Girl,

13/12/2007 10:04:49

Clarry, if you're so against incomers why are you so pro-Trump?

Your agressive exclusionist nature is embarrassing to any quine or loon.

And here's a question - are any of you Pro-Trumpers going to work on the development at any stage? Or intend to use the facilities?

Who will be the people employed (seasonally). Where will the money be spent (and banked?).

Regardless of all other things, this has been an utter embarrassment for Scottish politics at every level. We can't even vote on a golf course and not argue about it.

Geez, look to Darien and bankrupting ourselves....Scotland isn't great at running itself!

133

Scotsman in Dublin,

13/12/2007 10:05:27

I think its wrong to remove this man from his post when on the face of it he has done nothing wrong. I also dont know enough about the claimed 'environmental impact' to know whether it is the correct decision to approve the application or not. However, I cannot see how any of this is the Scottish Goverment "interfering in local democracy" as the Brit Nats and their rag have been suggesting. As quoted above "The full council gave its backing to the controversial application" - "14,000 people have signed a petition... to support Trump's proposals". Hardly an affront to democracy given the level of support amongst the local people and the council surely it is the right thing for the goverment to get involved.

134

Memyself&I,

13/12/2007 10:08:14

What really stinks about this is the 29 who abstained.
Shame on them.

135

morris,

embra 13/12/2007 10:10:09

18

THE FACTS .
80% of the population wanted this to go ahead.
The full council overwhelmingly backed this.
Ford did not even get the backing of his own party!

143

I suggest you read the above also .


How can anything other than the wishes of 80% being implemented be a triumph ?

136

WL,

livingston 13/12/2007 10:10:29

A very sad day for (local) democracy when 29 out of 65 councillors abstain from voting; do they not want to show their true colours? But even then, by removing the Chairman of the Infrastructure Services Committee they have not automatically overturned a decision made earlier by that Committee.
And if building hotels or houses on a Site of Special Scientific Interest is going to be permitted, better look if those 1500 SSSI's in Scotland are still necessary. Or are they all sites for affordable (that is for millionaires) housing?

137

Subbob,

on a democratic tea break 13/12/2007 10:10:47

What else do you expect when BIG MONEY is involved? Get real. Honesty and decency and the Environment have nothing to do with it

138

Scottish Girl,

13/12/2007 10:11:02

And Clarry, don't compare decent, law abiding people to psychopathic mass murderers - it's not nice and it smacks of a breathtaking lack of imagination.

The council acknowledge that Ford is a man of decency and integrity - don't disrespect him and the millions who suffered under Hitler by comparing him to such a man.

You're really a complete jerk. I do this because I'm bored at work this week - I feel that you may do it because no one wants to listen to your acidic, nasty, racist and ignorant views.

139

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 13/12/2007 10:11:30

so it's official - Scotland bends over for the rich.

140

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

13/12/2007 10:15:03

I take it all the SNP posters here who are pontificatying are going to argue for the removal of those SNP councillors who voted against teh development?

What I find disturbing about this board today (and the action taken by the council) is that many people seem to think that it is not only alright to railroad over a minority viewpoint but to remove anyone who may actually represent a minority viewpoint.

That in my opinion is a very dangerous step to take. It goes against the very spirit of democracy. I may have disagreed with Councillor Ford's decision but I respect his right to take that decision.

141

tog,

13/12/2007 10:19:39

Democracy is all well and good but clearly only if it delivers the decision those in charge want. This is a mess. It has already made Salmond look sleazy, made the planning process and the idea of local democracy look a joke and Trump will probably not be going ahead anyway. The only person involved in the process who has shown any honesty and decency is the only one sacked.

142

Keep Scotland Green,

Blackford 13/12/2007 10:20:36

How sad...Democratically elected officials doing their job are sacked because they make a decision based on their beliefs - the same beliefs that got them elected in the first place.

Those who know Trump have issued dire warnings on this post, on the various petitions and in the council meetings. They've done so, not because they are against investment or development, but because they are very aware of the type of development that Trump is famous for. Those who don't know him are about to. I hope you are still comfortable in your decision when you see your landscape massacred and feel no positive effect to your local economy.

I for one, feel sick. If this is a sign of democracy at play in Scotland, then I can only assume that the Stirling pylons plan will also go ahead despite its devastation of historical battlefields and iconic views.

143

Still a Fifer,

13/12/2007 10:21:11

Disgraceful! Disappointing! - and what a debacle!
I wonder whether those vociferous supporters of Trump and his plans will be shouting so loudly and so cheerily a few years down the line when they see the REAL impact of his proposals should John Swinney sign them off - and how can he not with the range of pressures likely to be imposed upon him. Happy Christmas John!

144

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 10:21:18

#159 Nomada

Unfortunately I fear it's just a rumour... part of the 'lets run after Trump' campaign to show how much we love him!

Keep protesting - keep Trump from destroying valuable Aberdeenshire land. He can reapply if he wants to but he has to be more flexible on the protected land issues.

Write to Swinney, Salmond etc to express your feelings and to remind them of the law.

Sign the petition - nearly 6000 people object to this development.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/trumpoff/

145

Martin Ford is My Hero,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 10:25:12

#148 clarry

Sooooo . . . clarry . . . you're an 'incoming immigrant' who hates incomers?

You.are.the.weakest.link.goodbye

#143 dianne12

'Hot news' . . . are you for real?

146

World View,

13/12/2007 10:25:43

Martin Ford is simply way ahead of his time.

These people who voted him out have demonstrated an astounding degree of ignorance that is indicative of the parochialism and backwardness that characterises the North East of Scotland. How nice to know they are striving to uphold the penny-pinching image of the North East for all the world to see. Bravo.

So comforting, too, to know that coorporate power is alive and well and that it holds such sway over elected government.

This is an appalling stain on the North East of Scotland which has undermined the reputation of the entire country. The SNP better ca canny with the choices they make in the wake of this, lest they end up looking like Trump's navvies.

Great credit to Ford for standing up for his principles in the face of ignorance, idiocy and greed. This is much more than can be said for ship of fools who voted him out.

147

qohldr,

13/12/2007 10:27:44

Welcome to the worlds newest undemocratic country.
(WELCOME TO SCOTLAND)

148

AJ of Fife,

13/12/2007 10:28:07

The unionists on this thread should be grateful that they have a First Minister of such a high calibre, who is determined to lead them to a better way of life.

They should show some respect to their Leader!

149

Evan Owen,

Up the creek... 13/12/2007 10:35:00

Money talks...

150

Ayr-Swipe Scut™,

13/12/2007 10:37:48

All seig heil King Alex! For he is a generous King. King Alex will let his people buy back their land from the foreigner he sold it too! All seig heil King Alex! For he is a generous King. King Alex will let his serfs rent business units on their land that they bought back to serve him and his rich foreign friends.

151

Lesley Hinds,

13/12/2007 10:37:56

#178 AJ

It is a pity that the SNP drones always reduce every issue to independence versus the union.

I thought that this was about a planning application.

I support Martin Ford as chair of that planning committee. Politicians like him should be cherished not vilified.

And despite all the vicious postings from Clarry, Huntly Loon and a few other nutjobs I still support Alex Salmond as First Minister. Sorry if that confuses you.

I just hope he doesnt get into bed with Trump.

152

Dueronomy,

The Lowlands 13/12/2007 11:17:31

#177 gohldr

Welcome to the worlds newest undemocratic country.
(WELCOME TO SCOTLAND)


WELCOME TO THE UNDEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF TRUMPTONSTAN

153

Sgritheall,

Switzerland 13/12/2007 11:20:28

On 4 December, the Scottish Government called in the application and the decision now rests with John Swinney, the finance secretary, with the council only an "enhanced consultee".

And it's easy to guess what the finance secretary will do.

I don't quite see the point of an independent Scotland if the SNP is selling out to Mr. Trump. An indepentend St. Kilda will be all that remains.

154

BMeister,

13/12/2007 11:21:21

79 Malkster

The facts aren't

1. Council turns down Trump plan.
2. Alex salmond meets with Trump.
3. Scottish Government review decision.
4. Chairman sacked.

As you state.

The facts are

1. Council planning approves Trump plan.
2. Alex Salmond meets with Trump.
3. Council infrastructure turns down Trump plan.
4. Scottish Government review decision.
5. Chairman sacked.
6. Full council backs plan.

Slightly different order, different effect.

I do agree however that this looks naive on the part of the govt. as parts 5. and 6. may well have happened anyway, at which point they could have called in the plan and that the opposition parties will try and spin this as much as possible in order to try and create a smokescreen for their own woes.

155

Alastair the First,

13/12/2007 11:44:12

One man, because of the accident of being the chairman, had the decision on a project that he personally didn't like. His vies didn't reflect the views of the public or of the whole council. The situation is now going to be reviewd - looks to me like the Government has managed to get Aberdeenshire Council off the hook frankly. how can anyone say that one Nimby should get to block a development just because of his personal view? He is supposed to represent the views of his constituents.

Those who are trying to spin this as an anti-SNP story are rather misguided to put it mildly.

156

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:15:47
Hoos Poos
157

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:19:16
Is this better do ye think Ayrshire?
158

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:19:53
2. Conan the L, no it is not as user friendly as it was, is it?
159

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:20:26
2. C the L, I feel a disturbance in the force. AM2 may be on his way
160

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:21:23
2. C the L, I feel a disturbance in the force. AM2 may be on his way
161

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:21:48
2. C the L, I feel a disturbance in the force. AM2 may be on his way
162

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:22:14
6. Weird, I only posted that once?
163

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:22:38
6. Weird, I only posted that once?
164

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:23:53
10 Hoos Poos let me see http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1901009.0.0.php?act=add#comments
165

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:24:10
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1901009.0.0.php?act=add#comments
166

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:24:40
11 Why is everyone saying everything twice?
167

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:24:56
Similar? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/
168

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:25:03
15 I think this is knackered already lol
169

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:25:23
17 The links don't work!
170

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:25:36
LOL
171

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:26:18
Ponytails shall roll for this HEE HEE
172

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:27:39
22 I don't like this at all. The comments are on different pages of 10 making it very hard to scroll up and down (no good for heated debate) and is not as user friendly as before. I shall send an emial I think
173

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:28:29
23 When you type a comment it is hard to read it as it is all on one line. I think this is worse than the Herald site, the previous site was much better than the Herald
174

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 21:29:50
This is an improvement? Have they hired Martin Ford as a consultant?
175

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:29:51
Yes.Shiny new graphics to attract the rather simpleminded;More unionists perhaps?
176

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 21:30:27
Councillor Ford, you acted with dignity and integrity. YOU'RE FIRED! Martin Ford only has himself to blame. He should know there's no room for dignity and integrity in trumpolitics.
177

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 21:30:33
This is an improvement? Have they hired Martin Ford as a consultant?
178

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:31:38
Is Alan the Editor here?Care to comment?
179

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 21:31:45
This is an improvement? Have they hired Martin Ford as a consultant?
180

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:32:34
30 Why does everyone keep repeating themselves? This is not very good at all
181

Chris,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 21:32:48
So economic benefit overrides an SSSI? That should prove an interesting precedent. Methinks someone has made a boo-boo here, just wait until the first bulldozer puts an inch of track over the SSSI line then we will see why the ISC made their decision against the project.
182

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 21:33:33
This is an improvement? Have they hired Martin Ford as a consultant?
183

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 21:34:23
Ayrshire Scot, you've got an echo going on.
184

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:34:25
Karin said she didn't like it last night.Thought she was talking about something else.
185

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 21:35:54
What's going on?
186

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:36:35
This is very poor. The old version was alot better
187

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:37:28
Ayrshire Spook and Jock have repeated,I haven't Wonder why.
188

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:38:53
41 "Repeated" - make it sound like reflux. Gosh, imagine AM2 repeats - his posts are bad enough once
189

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 21:39:04
35 Chris - Explain?
190

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:40:17
43 Where is 35. Its not on page 3. this is a nightmare
191

Jemima,

north of scotland 13/12/2007 21:41:25
where is my preview?
192

Conan the Librarian™,

Thinking about the Herald. 13/12/2007 21:41:46
Buuurp
193

Richardinho,

13/12/2007 21:42:08
I feel sympathy for this guy. I happen to believe that he did act out of princible. However I do think it is right that he was sacked. His personal princibles should not be allowed to overide the overwhelming will of the people of Aberdeenshire and the economic good of the country as a whole.And this new comments field is completely rubbish!
194

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 21:42:20
Ayrshire Scot™ - Page 4 - Editor, can you please spell out the improvements so that we can take advatage of them. Thanks.
195

Jemima,

north of scotland 13/12/2007 21:42:31
More people are concerned about the dreadful new layout of the posting page than are able to comment on the story. Scotsman, this is your worst idea yet.
196

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 21:43:42
Could the webmaster who designed the previous version please contact me at my e-mail address?
197

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 21:45:21
How do you get to the next line? My Return button doesn't work.
198

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 21:45:38
Previous webmaster, I am serious.
199

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:45:44
50 Like the Herald Spook,cut and paste.Retrograde step.With the Herald you can at least see what you have written and use bold and italics.
200

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:45:50
52. What do you mean? This is very poor is it not? Much less user friendly? How am I supposed to bash you about and thrash your weak arguments up and down a thread on here, AM2?
201

Richardinho,

13/12/2007 21:46:56
Does the Herald have a forum?
202

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:46:56
55. Only one paragraph? Clearly this has been designed for the likes of the unionists intellectuals like Kimba
203

Richard,

West Lothian 13/12/2007 21:47:03
Has anyone chjecked out the latest poll in the Evening News site? We march on!
204

Joanna,

Cambs, England 13/12/2007 21:47:32
I don't like this new website at all. The comments used to be really user-friendly but not any more. Very poor indeed.
205

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:47:34
62 No, what are the numbers?
206

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:48:29
64. Joanna/ everyone - I think we shoudl e-mail the Scotsman. Their site used to be the best among UK papers for usability, comment and ease of reading - this is now very poor, and worse than the Herald
207

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:49:04
66. Cancel that email of complasint everyone :-) (only joking AM2, I am quite fond of you really x)
208

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 21:49:05
Which buffoon thought up this little redesign? And how much did it cost? Is the Scotsman about to be taken over by AOL UK?
209

steve's here,

13/12/2007 21:50:03
the old format was much better, this change in not good at all, it's much harder to follow the threads of insults and the comments of trolls
210

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 13/12/2007 21:50:06
Just seen the SNP cooncil wifie saying Martin had to go because his care for the environment might get in the way of future developments. Isn't that what the planning rules are for? The world is watching and we're looking pretty daft right now.
211

Joanna,

Cambs England 13/12/2007 21:50:25
Ayrshire Scot @ 67... Agreed, or maybe its a not so subtle hint from the Scotsman to get rid of us all. I think it might work, this is now one of the worst sites and it was once the best on the web.
212

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:51:38
73 Spook, thanks for sharing. 74. Joanna - indeed, they had a very good website compared tomost other papers before. Where is AM2, I can't see where he is lurking now on here?
213

Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 13/12/2007 21:53:07
It's a bit mince n'est pas?
214

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 21:53:37
72 Blue Tooner ..... A bit less daft than a week ago: David and Goliath, Local Hero, etc... on BBC News 24
215

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:53:47
You would think that in a major software change there would be someone online actually explaining their reasoning for the change.
216

Richard,

Broxburn 13/12/2007 21:53:47
#65 51% in Scotland support independence, 36% against 14% don't know. And in England the figures are 48% pro, 39% against and 12% don't know.
217

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:54:09
76 Qui, exactement, c'est comme des boeuf hache ici
218

Vile,

13/12/2007 21:54:25
I happen to know that Johnston Press got rid of the team behind the old Scotsman website. Not without a fight.
219

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:55:35
You would think that in a major software change there would be someone online actually explaining their reasoning for the change.
220

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:55:48
81 Well that was very silly of them. The old site was alot better than this
221

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 21:57:04
Hah.Now I'm repeating.
222

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:57:23
82. Can't find the 79 you refer to, have to click back, this is rubbish! Just think how many fabulations you will be able to get away with now!
223

Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 13/12/2007 21:57:24
It's making me do a wee bit off poo each time I try and post, I touched cloth after reading about Spooks ablutional journey.
224

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 13/12/2007 21:58:04
The site seems to lack colour now - a bit too white. The comment box doesn't lend itself to paragraphs, and you can't see what you've written before.
225

Richard,

West Lothian 13/12/2007 21:58:14
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3337417
226

mr chips,

13/12/2007 21:58:19
I will report this site as unsuitable.
227

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 21:58:37
88 LOL. I have resisted the urge. So far. I see Nicol Stephen abused his position on the Aberdeen by-pass?
228

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:01:18
94 AM2 - send them an email of complaint
229

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:02:03
93 When I was on hols earlier this year (maldives, lovely) i had a syndrome of mega doings - some filled the whole dunger. Must have been the food
230

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:02:28
"Please note that your e-mail address may be used by one of our journalists to contact you for further information." Wow! Welcome to Big Brother.
231

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:03:25
94. Right, now he's gone, I'll just pop the website back to normal
232

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:03:37
100
233

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:03:47
100
234

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:04:21
97 I can just imagine some of the addresses;-)
235

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:05:58
102 LOL. god dam it LOL. I do like your style. But this site is very poor. Even AM has gone, and he is a lunatic fanatic
236

victor ian,

13/12/2007 22:06:10
not great is it? maybe this is just a pre-cursor version and it will be improved. maybe it's been done this way to stop the quick fire bun fights we have every day on the football threads. bah.
237

victor ian,

13/12/2007 22:06:35
not great is it? maybe this is just a pre-cursor version and it will be improved. maybe it's been done this way to stop the quick fire bun fights we have every day on the football threads. bah.
238

victor ian,

13/12/2007 22:07:01
not great is it? maybe this is just a pre-cursor version and it will be improved. maybe it's been done this way to stop the quick fire bun fights we have every day on the football threads. bah.
239

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:07:08
104 Its on the "contact us" at the bottom left (note, you have to sign back in once you go there and come back - MINCE!)
240

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:07:39
Victor, we heard you the 1st time
241

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:08:29
109. No, I didn't think you had gone. I can sense the disturbance in the force that your presence causes. I am attuned to it now
242

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 22:09:12
Have there been any comments about this article, or is it all just techtalk? (105 and counting)
243

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:09:56
113 I agree with you. That is 4 times now. I wonder if one can get some kind of insurance to cover counselling for such disturbance?
244

Stanley Unwin,

I love this site 13/12/2007 22:10:27
Perfect for micro-debates
245

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:10:35
113 You left your heart in San Francisco. Or was it Coatbridge?
246

Joanna,

Cambs, England 13/12/2007 22:12:20
AM2 @ 113 .... agreed ... they've shot themselves in the foot with this one. They had a real buzz going on this newspaper site and now its rubbish. How long can you type before you run out of room? The Mirror forums are quite good (user friendly) and you don't have to actually read the newspaper to 'discuss' on there
247

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 22:12:23
116 ... A different Andrew and a different number - 114
248

victor ian,

13/12/2007 22:12:25
117 spooky, again bah, at least i somehow managed to get post numbers 105, 106 & 107!!! spooky spooky.
249

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:12:51
114 Sorry Andrew,judging by your address you may be affected by it.But some of us used to practically live here.It's like somebody broke into your house while you were at work an re-arranged the furniture.
250

Jock Tamson,

Sxcotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:13:31
I appear to have had a comment disappear in the post already. Vile@81, please e-mail metaphax@aol.com with some names re the previous team
251

Joanna,

Cambs, England 13/12/2007 22:14:34
People are also going to do really long post without any paragraphs to break them up because there is no carriage return. Talk about dumbing down the English language.
252

Stanley Unwin,

I love this site 13/12/2007 22:14:44
Perfect for micro-debates
253

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:15:07
120 AM2 - bottom left of this page - contact us - I did answer but due to the pagination you missed it!
254

Andrew BOD,

13/12/2007 22:15:23
125 Conan the Librarian™ .... does it not look better after the break in than before?
255

Joanna,

Cambs, England 13/12/2007 22:15:24
People are also going to do really long post without any paragraphs to break them up because there is no carriage return. Talk about dumbing down the English language.
256

Joanna,

Cambs, England 13/12/2007 22:16:38
I see the 'echo' is working for me as well. I'm not posting twice its this weird website.
257

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:17:39
131 Yes Andrew...but there is stuff missing:-(
258

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:18:33
134 - No they haven't- where? I just looked.
259

"Scotty",

Minnesota, Usa (formerly Edinburgh) 13/12/2007 22:18:33
This is a very crooked dealings; Trump should mess up the New Jersey coastline and Martin Ford should most definitely get his job back. I truly can't believe the people of beautiful Aberdeenshire would want Trump and his bulldozers to come in and ruin their county.
260

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:18:38
134 Wonderful way to treat your customers,no?
261

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:19:17
133 Don't hit refresh, you have to go back and forward on the page number. Pure Dead Mince!
262

"Scotty",

Minnesota, Usa (formerly Edinburgh) 13/12/2007 22:19:55
This is a very crooked dealings; Trump should mess up the New Jersey coastline and Martin Ford should most definitely get his job back. I truly can't believe the people of beautiful Aberdeenshire would want Trump and his bulldozers to come in and ruin their county.
263

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 22:20:02
Maybe I can return it after you enlighten me..
264

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:20:29
141 Return what?
265

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:20:51
136 I couldn't access them the first time either.Weird.
266

Shave,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 22:22:17
Pants. (new paragraph) Utter Pants. No more ascii art then.
267

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:22:20
144. I blame the SNP for this. Another bwoken pwomith!
268

Shave,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 22:22:44
Nah. This won't work.
269

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:23:08
Andrew BOD.Are you involved in this?
270

Shave,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 22:23:21
I don't want to create a new post for every paragraph.
271

Shave,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 22:23:44
It's tiresome
272

Shave,

Edinburgh 13/12/2007 22:24:04
See ya.
273

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:24:25
thehootsman.com will be up and running late Jan/early Feb 2008. So don't worry folks.
274

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 22:24:32
137 Scotty, do we have to go through this all over again. Aberdeenshire is so beautiful, nobody wants to visit the place. That's why we want the development, to kickstart a local tourist economy.
275

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:25:38
Andrew BOD.Are you involved in this?
276

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 13/12/2007 22:26:19
Testing: Do links work? http://www.google.co.uk/
277

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 22:26:52
142 Conan's 'stuff'
278

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:27:32
153 Inside info Jock? Do tell. As much as you can;-)
279

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:27:36
156 Aha, they have rendered your database unusable. On esign of progress, lol. No, only joking. Other links don't work either. Very poor. You would think they might have tested it with their consumers before hand? Clearly the customer is not king here! Although they do have permanent adds to facebook etc
280

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 13/12/2007 22:28:24
Hmmmm no links!?!
281

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 22:29:30
155 Conan the Librarian™ ... I'm innocent, just like Alex
282

Eve,

Scotland 13/12/2007 22:30:06
Hi everyone, it's a shame that poor coniler lost his job as chair. Though It's an even bigger shame that I cannae read anyones name, place, date or time. Cause I cannae read black writting on grey backgrounds. Also all thoes lovely post about the EU, indpendent Scotland and "scary" unionist stories are gone! Thankfully the comments are still have a white background. But it's not all negative theres a majour plus in the fact that it's easyer to read the artcle, thanks to the opintion of large texts. Shame I cannae hit the return button in this comment, though.
283

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:32:25
165 Very poor. Imagine if I had bashed out pharmaceuticals and consumer goods in this fashion!
284

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:32:40
162 Andrew, naebody is interested onymair.The Hootsman website is the topic.
285

Vile,

13/12/2007 22:33:29
165, AM2 what difference do you think it would have made if you had given feedback?
286

Eve,

Scotland 13/12/2007 22:33:56
#164 The Spook in Leith: You can still comment on the EU story from yesterday. I commented there before commenting here.
287

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:34:00
165 Oh yes, I saw that, but indeed the beta site did not work then! Feedback on something that doesn't work. It is like that Unionist Constitutional Commission!
288

Vile,

13/12/2007 22:34:12
168, that's insulting to monkeys
289

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:34:59
Charles Kennedy is on QT and Newsnight is running as "Boozenight" - wasn't sure which channel was which for a minute
290

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:36:30
162 Andrew, naebody is interested onymair.The Hootsman website is the topic.
291

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 13/12/2007 22:37:49
174 OK I got it the first time
292

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:38:25
Vile, can you give me a name from the Scotsman's previous website team or not?
293

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:39:02
175 The echo bug Andrew.
294

Eve,

13/12/2007 22:39:40
#165 AM2: I receive that email only the day & I might have known that I wouldn't like it much though it is a lot better than yahoos version. I tried the beta version of Yahoo for about 3mins it was the worst 3min I've very had on the internet, it was very unfriendly towards my dyslexia and for about 2mins I thought I might never be able to read my emails again, cause I couldn't find my way off there trial beta version.
295

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:40:22
177. Chris Patten described Gordon Brown going "abroad" coming to England every week.
296

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:40:24
Vile, can you give me a name from the Scotsman's previous website team or not?
297

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:41:04
175 The echo bug Andrew.
298

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:44:11
Must stop eating belchies, I've just repated myself. The new team must have done a Scheidegger webmaster course.
299

Eve,

Scotland 13/12/2007 22:44:14
#184 The Spook in Leith: Without a trace is't so depressing as that programme.
300

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:45:20
Must have repeated myself. Must be the belchies I ate.
301

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:46:06
Must have repeated myself. Must be the belchies I ate.
302

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:46:17
Must have repeated myself. Must be the belchies I ate.
303

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:46:49
177 Aye, he now is stirring about Scots police getting the full amount.And the poor English not.
304

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:48:50
This website is a disgrace. Can that Brian Ashcroft not design something? He designed Wendy's donors spreadsheet didn't he
305

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 22:50:08
177 Aye, he now is stirring about Scots police getting the full amount.And the poor English not.
306

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/12/2007 22:50:12
Night all. If I could only have a button to refresh me and have a groundhog day experience at the same time. Bit like 6am tomorrow.
307

Eve,

Scotland 13/12/2007 22:51:08
waho (oh I wish a could spell that word). How bigg does the writting go I've got it to being about 1-2 words in a line. Thouse are maseive words and it looks like they could go bigger!!!! double waho!!!!
308

Billythefish,

Glasgow 13/12/2007 22:51:55
Mr Ford said that he had acted properly. I guess you could say that he has been hung out to dry
309

,

13/12/2007 22:54:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
310

Eve,

Scotland 13/12/2007 22:55:28
Whats with the bookmarks!!!!
311

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:55:33
196 Well said.
312

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:55:58
197 Advertisers
313

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:56:08
200
314

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 22:56:30
200
315

Eve,

Scotland 13/12/2007 23:01:22
#199 Ayrshire Scot™: awh right. I've only heard of facebook before and it's prity mince. Doesn't make me want to run out a join wan thats advertised near it.
316

Lynne,

FLA, USA 13/12/2007 23:02:38
This reminds of of the election using the "butterfly ballot" idea..that's howBush got elected in this state!! Nothing matched up!! I do not think this was an improvement.
317

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 23:11:13
get rid of this stupid posting format. Just when you had something good you go off an wreck it
318

Roger Thomas,

Blairgowrie 13/12/2007 23:13:35
I find the entire development and issues surrounding it uncomfortable. In 2002 DEFRA recommended me to the UK Cabinet Office to advise on the sustainable development aspect of the UKs legislative process involving Regulatory Impact Assessment.I am looking at this development in terms of localised ecoonomic, social and environmental factors.These relatively short term, in an overall strategy for Scotland, set against global trends and development.What may only result in a short term local gain for the North East in the economic factor, offset by a loss in social and environmental areas could result in a loss across economic, social and environmental factors for Scotland as a whole in a long term strategy.
319

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 23:13:47
Scotsman, you've ruined it! Get back the old website now, this is horrible!
320

Vile,

13/12/2007 23:14:42
if you modify the page address, you can get all comments on one page http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Man-who-vetoed-Trumptown-loses.3589839.jp?CommentPage=1&CommentPageLength=1000#comments
321

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 23:14:52
206 Well said. This is atrocious. Even if I say AM2 is a fanatic he is so cheesed off he won't come back and refute it
322

ex-labour,

13/12/2007 23:14:59
How many ordinary Aberdonians will benefit from this? After the initial building work is done, it will be back to the same old minimum wage for catering and hotel staff. I think we should keep an eye on the MSPs and Councillors over the next few years - I'm sure they'll have a few 'benefits' coming their way. Meanwhile, the average Scot will be forbidden access to view this wonderful thing we well no doubt subsidise
323

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 23:15:34
you have a button that says "Report Unsuitable." THE WHOLE WEBSITE IS UNSUITABLE
324

Roger Thomas,

Celtic Lion Ltd Blairgowrie 13/12/2007 23:17:34
Next bit of post. The dragging down of Scotland, as a whole, affecting the North East and negating any benefits they think they may achieve.The complexities of full sustainable development seem to have been ignored in the rush for the ‘quick fix’$ Very worrying http://thecelticlion.blogspot.com/2007/12/is-trump-bad-for-scotland-and.html
325

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:18:22
Hmm.I get this at my workplace all the time.Senior management get a snakeoil salesman saying THIS will solve ALL your problems.And don't talk to the people who use the software.Because they get in the way of management's plans.
326

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 23:18:32
208 Well said, that's the true test! SCOTSMAN WE ARE NOT HAPPY LITTLE CAMPERS
327

`The Maltese Falcon`,

Malta 13/12/2007 23:20:56
Hi, im back
328

`The Maltese Falcon`,

Malta 13/12/2007 23:21:31
Hi im baack
329

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 23:21:48
Conan you're right, this is now as bad as the other was good. SCOTSMAN ARE YOU LISTENING? THIS IS TERRIBLE AND YOU WILL LOSE ALL YOUR POSTERS IF YOU DON'T GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS. PLEASE!
330

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:22:22
Bye
331

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:22:33
Bye
332

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:23:33
The SNP are doing a grand job and should be commended for their stance on the trump affair. I look forward to another SNP victory.
333

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 23:24:17
I'm going to us this post to report the website unsuitable
334

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:24:26
I have now come out of my fishnets and i am now with the SNP
335

Douglas,

Bathgate 13/12/2007 23:24:32
Finally! I've found you. Was this little lot thought up at the Christmas night out?
336

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:25:24
hut hut hut hut hoi hoi hoi pizza hut hut hut
337

Karyn M,

not in kansas 13/12/2007 23:28:20
hate this site its pants
338

Eve,

Beta ryms way Peta, Seta, Meta, Feta and a hollw l 13/12/2007 23:28:26
#210 b h: This website was parsaly down for most of the afternoon. And for what!!!!! My password wouldnae work so I was very prompley sent a new password BUT it's purely letter, which I cannae regester. I'm better way numbers and sympols.
339

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:29:12
As I said before,abruptly changing the website,and not having anybody online to take comments.Probably to be fair to the ponytails,senior management are always very far away from what happens on the coalface.
340

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:29:25
i think imay go join the herald seeing as you dont need to do the whole number thing when you do that
341

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 23:30:05
224 - The "online survey" (to the right" feedback on our new website doesn't work. Marinka, do you remember that time AM2 invited you to a highschool chat site?
342

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:30:32
226 well i dont know what you said before cos i cant scroll down adn read it. and im not clicking rhought all those numbers
343

John Wright,

The Villages, Florida 13/12/2007 23:31:15
It is a shame that an individual with the strength to stand up to Mr. Trump and vote for the good of the area gets fired. It is about time somebody told the "trump" where to go. No one here in the US of A has such integrity.
344

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:31:22
and while im at it i couldnt log in it wouldnt let me kept saying no record and when i tried to reregister no joy pants pants pants
345

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:32:25
I have now dumped wini,Andy Dufresny,watcher4,Morris the Dolphin, Maverick the cat,SNP Hypocrisy',big bad,j and janis
346

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:32:38
can we still do things like go to www.theherald.co.uk
347

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:33:12
228 totally www.highschoolchat.co.uk
348

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 23:33:16
232 What about Deuronomy, Boudica and Janis? 233 - nope, that don't even work
349

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:33:57
I yearn for my bit of duck
350

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:34:13
232 are you the real maltese? or the fakey?
351

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:34:59
hate this site hate it hate it hate it. its pants it suckee big much.,
352

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:35:25
#235 Ayrshire. Do you think the real tranny will show up?
353

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:35:52
anyone want to go and annoy the herald to change their site so its like the old scotsman if enough people say it they might cos they told me they would discuss it at their next meeting
354

Eve,

13/12/2007 23:36:14
Mr George Sorial, who acording to this article is Mr Trump's right-hand man, and polietely relaies by the looks of this remark, that he knows that wan loesing his job because he's agaist you doesn't mean everythings no going to go all there way. "We take no delight in what's happened to Councillor Ford and we wish him the best." It's amasing the senstivty just pours out BUT unfortuntley is more cunning than anything eles. Bussiness men like them possibly don't think twice about making a hundred redunceis in wan of their companies.
355

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 23:36:30
239 Duck, he has - he/she/it is also "Boudica" - he commented on another thread
356

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:36:39
#237 Karin m.. its spook, im just playing about with the tranny, it smells in here of rotten eggs
357

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:36:54
no clicking links really.......... super uber pants.
358

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:37:21
ALAN ONLINE ED YOUR PURE FIRED SUCKEE SUCKEE SITE. HATE IT
359

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:37:44
Look on the bright side,AM2 hates it too.
360

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:38:15
243 Hi hon........ i cant be doing with this im going to get a wii and play games.
361

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:39:10
246 what does everyone else think have to say i agree with am2 he will probably migrate over to the herald.
362

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:40:55
unless there is big stories about labour dont think i will come back either this sucks did i mention thsi sucks.arrrrgh and see that hving to click the number box annoying even the herald is less annoying than this if you log in.
363

Eve,

Beta is the new betamax, remeber VHS was always be 13/12/2007 23:41:27
#240 Karyn M,: If there any thing like 10 downing streets web site people. They'll tell you that your opinon means a lot to them and then they do nothing. The said they'd look in to doing something about the black writing on grey background. Thous B's don't care that I cannae read black wrting on grey background.
364

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:41:36
im off to the beeb and the herald hate this im going catch yous later.
365

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:42:07
#247 Karyn m yeh this site sucks now, not as good as the old one but if i do post again it will be under the Maltese Falcon. i love that name and it took me 6 months to batter the tranny out of it so i could use it. im keeping this name for good now. i am the new Maltese Falcon
366

Karyn M,

13/12/2007 23:42:26
eve i they have downgraded it to betamax you are right off now byeeeeeeeeeeee
367

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:45:21
Second time tonight.Alan.Editor.Obviously you were not high up enough to stop this.Are you even working tonight?No paragaphs.No links. Bye.
368

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 23:45:37
252 Hail Hail the New Maltese Falcon (Falcon is a gay porn label, just thought u should know...)
369

b h,

dornoch 13/12/2007 23:46:01
SCOTSMAN YOUR RUINING THE GOOD DEBATE WITH THIS NEW FORMAT. GO BACK OR EVERYONE WILL GO AWAY
370

,

13/12/2007 23:47:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
371

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:47:22
225 Ayrshire.Shall the Mackee meet at the Herald?
372

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:48:11
#255 Ayrshire.. i love this name. check channel 5 out. big woman picking wee men of the ground and then crushing them. i want crushed.
373

Eve,

mmmmmm pomigranit seeds yummy!!!! 13/12/2007 23:48:41
"As chairman of a leading committee on the council, he received £27,041 in allowances, but a return to a regular councillor will mean he gets the standard allowance of £15,452." Is this the case of all conicls in Scotland, cause we could sack all the leads and that would pay for the conicl tax frezze and then some!!!!!
374

b h,

13/12/2007 23:49:00
225 Eve They have to fix it or we're gone
375

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:49:18
Hey just had a thought...Timesonline...Might be fun...
376

,

13/12/2007 23:49:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
377

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:50:16
p off comma.
378

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 13/12/2007 23:50:22
At least Aberdeenshire have a committee to discuss infrastructure which is required by any modern state. How can this be funded? For the international money system may be weeks or months from collapse due to immense debt bubbles and real estate speculations. I reckon it would be prudent to have a national currency and a national bank to issue credit solely for essential scottish infrastructure.
379

,

13/12/2007 23:51:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
380

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:51:34
#255 Ayrshire.. i love this name. check channel 5 out. big woman picking wee men of the ground and then crushing them. i want crushed.
381

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:51:34
Argh. thought you were a fakie...
382

Eve,

Betamax was a hopeless video recorder!!! 13/12/2007 23:52:53
#262 Conan the Librarian™: ooohhhh, what story is that!!!!! Are links blocked in Betamax web pages. I demand at lest VHS quaility if NOT DVD quailty
383

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:53:09
Hey my comment has come up again, god dam website.
384

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:53:50
we all have commas conan
385

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 13/12/2007 23:54:20
n the 19th century Fraserburgh made an international deal witih Bergen to exchange barrels of salt fish and marine gear for baulks of structural timber. They mutually agreed a paper currency for convenience and clerking. This financed the buildings, offices and houses required for the trade at both destinations. Without recourse to London, Edinburgh, Aberdeen -- or New York. I dare say the burghers of the Broch could easily have constructed a golf course if this was desired. Martin Ford was fired for doing his job. But mention £billions to Aberdeenshire councillors and their eyes go gugalugalug.
386

`The Maltese Falcon`,

13/12/2007 23:54:20
okay im away to find the real tranny
387

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:55:02
But the more I think on this...An active SNP presence on the Times or Telegraph...
388

,

13/12/2007 23:55:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
389

Eve,

Scotland 13/12/2007 23:55:56
#265 Yok Finney: Aye the folk in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire are lucky people. Also happy and better off people than thoes of us from the center belt!!!!!!
390

Conan the Librarian™,

13/12/2007 23:57:27
271 Old habits Maltese.
391

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/12/2007 23:58:38
275, 263 Alright there Maltese tranny? How are you? Been a while since you had a wee melt-down, spat your dummy and threatened legal action. Welcome back. Do you fanatasise about me? Kisses
392

Roger Thomas,

Celtic Lion Ltd Blairgowrie 14/12/2007 00:01:24
Karyn M Not in Kansas. Used those lyrics in a letter to the Blairgowrie Advertiser last week http://thecelticlion.blogspot.com/2007/12/blairgowrie-regeneration-meeting.html
393

,

14/12/2007 00:02:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
394

Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:02:56
What about this Ayrshire.A mass posting by Nats on a Times/Telegraph thread?Quite possibly a better respnse than a boycott.
395

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14/12/2007 00:04:27
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`The Maltese Falcon`,

Hoos poos gosh im so clever 14/12/2007 00:05:23
*Please enter your comment*
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14/12/2007 00:05:45
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`The Maltese Falcon`,

14/12/2007 00:06:03
hoos poos, gosh im clever
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

14/12/2007 00:06:40
281 I am with you. Shall we do Times tomorrow. 282 - hi there Maltese Tranny. How did your (1) legal action against me (small laugh) (2) phone call to have me barred (smallish laugh) (3) threat to find out where I lived from Scotsman (larger laugh) go? I feel a bit sorry for you. I am quite fit, by the way, just to facilitate your chugging. Big kiss
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:06:53
bviusly my keybard is playing up.
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`The Maltese Falcon`,

14/12/2007 00:06:57
hoos poos, gosh im clever
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`The Maltese Falcon`,

14/12/2007 00:07:57
new threads are now out. lets all shuffle along now
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 14/12/2007 00:08:50
Me NO like!, you cant even drop to next line, at least the 'Times on Line' and the, 'Daily Mail' you get plenty space to see what you wrote albeit 1000 characters, now thats funny! 'spell check' opens this box!, the only thing I recon you can do, is put your reply into 'Word' and copy and Paste! Na 'me-no-like' please make it better Mr Scotsman! I cant use expresssion on this comment page, cause ye just canny see all yer text!
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 14/12/2007 00:09:21
Me NO like!, you cant even drop to next line, at least the 'Times on Line' and the, 'Daily Mail' you get plenty space to see what you wrote albeit 1000 characters, now thats funny! 'spell check' opens this box!, the only thing I recon you can do, is put your reply into 'Word' and copy and Paste! Na 'me-no-like' please make it better Mr Scotsman! I cant use expresssion on this comment page, cause ye just canny see all yer text!
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`The Maltese Falcon`,

14/12/2007 00:09:21
#289 wini How are you gorgeous
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Eve,

Scotland 14/12/2007 00:10:36
#290 `The Maltese Falcon`: I've already read the wan about wee Doggie!!! In record time for me to I must be have a good reading day now its a new day.
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:11:50
284 Perhaps we should choose a story which will get the maximum coverage?
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Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 14/12/2007 00:12:13
'This comment has been deemed offensive and will not be displayed.'
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Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 14/12/2007 00:12:53
WTF?
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Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 14/12/2007 00:13:11
300
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Montague Q X Burton,

14/12/2007 00:13:35
300 whoo and indeed hoo
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14/12/2007 00:13:41
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:18:14
Montague Q X Burton,We have had an idea. Every Nat on this post comments on an English National.Ayrshire will organise.
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14/12/2007 00:18:25
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Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 14/12/2007 00:20:12
#305 Make it so young warrior.
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14/12/2007 00:20:46
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:21:43
Nice block of text there.(yawn)zzzz....
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14/12/2007 00:21:46
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14/12/2007 00:23:11
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:23:23
306 Can you play a piano?Or sing.
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Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 14/12/2007 00:24:03
I am concerned as to what effect this will have on Mr. AM2's database, How will he mange to drag up posts inferring Scottish racism? It's all too wrong,
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Wini,

14/12/2007 00:25:01
315 Yes I can
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14/12/2007 00:25:19
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14/12/2007 00:25:50
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14/12/2007 00:27:55
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Montague Q X Burton,

Traversing the lonely moors cheeks full of ginger 14/12/2007 00:28:46
Re length of allowable paragraph. I'm going for the record..... HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? A lot.
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Montague Q X Burton,

There's more. 14/12/2007 00:30:03
HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD?HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK CHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD? HOW MUCH WOOD
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:30:31
320 I disagree hunnerbagging is a skill.
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:32:09
Ican't be arsed counting...?
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:33:10
Ican't be arsed counting...?
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:34:05
He He the echo is here again.
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:35:03
He He the echo is here again.
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:36:44
Alan Editor...Well that worked.Not.
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:39:22
327 Wini.A short abusive comment...:-)
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:48:36
Fair enough Wini.Hang on this.Thou clay-brained guts, thou knotty-pated fool, thou whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch!
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:50:58
Fair enough Wini.Hang on this.Thou clay-brained guts, thou knotty-pated fool, thou whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch!
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:53:07
Wini there is a bug.One insult is enough.
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Conan the Librarian™,

14/12/2007 00:59:04
IT people I'm sure you told them it wouldn't work(you always do)...Alan...
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James,

Dundee 14/12/2007 01:34:19
testing
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James,

Dundee 14/12/2007 01:36:38
testing
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James,

Dundee 14/12/2007 01:39:58
THE man who used his casting vote to reject Donald Trump's plans for a £1 billion golf resort was sacked from his post yesterday - after being told he had acted with dignity and integrity.
Martin Ford was dumped as chairman of Aberdeenshire Council's infrastructure services committee (ISC), which last month turned down the Trump proposals on his casting vote. Mr Ford said the decision to axe him sent out the "wrong message" about the integrity of the planning system.

Before yesterday's special meeting of the full council, placard-waving opponents of the plans protested outside the council building.

And after the vote - when some 26 councillors voted for Mr Ford's removal, with ten backing him and 29 abstaining - one protester in the public benches shouted: "Shame on you."

The full council gave its backing to the controversial application, which will now be determined by the Scottish Government after it was "called in".

The authority also agreed to change its procedures so that large-scale plans of regional or national importance will, in future, be decided by the full council, not a committee.

The Trump organisation's plans for two championship golf courses and 1,500 homes at the Menie Estate, near Balmedie, had been approved 7-4 by the council's Formartine area planning committee on 20 November. But the matter then went to the ISC on 29 November and, after a 7-7 tie, Mr Ford used his casting vote to veto the application.

While the decision was hailed by environmental groups, who said the project would harm the sensitive sand dunes at Balmedie, there was a huge political and commercial backlash, with claims the council had lost a golden economic opportunity.

On 4 December, the Scottish Government called in the application and the decision now rests with John Swinney, the finance secretary, with the council only an "enhanced consultee".

The plan will be decided by written submissions, a public hearing or public inquiry, although the c
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James,

14/12/2007 01:41:46
I tried C&P the whole article but it was truncated....but tbh its a fair sised chunk o'text
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Cafrunann,

Or Straya 14/12/2007 01:48:11
Martin should think himself lucky. Down here in New South Wales the Government would have had him declared insane. That shuts them up every time.
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Dunnie,

Canada 14/12/2007 01:52:28

This new format sucks the big yen!

What a load of rubbish.

Someone needs to be sacked.

Speaking of which, Ford's sacking is only the beginning.

Wait for it. Approval will be given by the so-called appropriate Ministers.

Donald the Hoser will win the day.

Ain't democracy grand?
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Richardinho,

14/12/2007 03:10:49
Er hang about-it seems this guy was voted out by the council-surely this is the democracy in action we've heard so much about?

Seriously though, this guy had to go. He may have acted with integrity, but as his principles are completely barking, he's not fit to represent the interests of aberdeenshire.
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Dunnie,

Canada 14/12/2007 03:48:08


349 - Hmmm - first he casts the deciding vote. Trump loses.

Trump threatens to withdraw.

Political tensions rise - Scottish government steps in.

Stories surface about meetings between Salmond and Trump and Trump's fart-catchers with SNP reps.

Ford is sacked.

Decision now rests with SNP and wee Alec- who, by the way, should recuse himself from this issue.

Otherwise, the same old, tired process will just continue.

What we are talking about is a bloody golf course and a condo development. What lasting benefit and skill development will this bring to Aberdeenshire?

It's not like Bill Gates is trying to locate a Microsoft plant employing thousands and requiring technical skills to be developed.

Your decision, but the stink can be sensed from this side of the pond despite prevailing winds and opinions to the contrary.



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California Scot,

14/12/2007 03:49:58
Oh, this site is just the worst now. Has Trump been at this site? Anyway, as for poor Mr. Ford.....Money talks BS walks. enjoy your stroll.
The Donald really does have that much money. This whole country(America) just reeks of cash. In the first weekend of Christmas shopping this year I read that Americans spent 465 billion just on presents nationwide. Trump will just buy his way onto those links! It seems to be the American way. Maybe someone will buy this site and put it back to where it was??
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California Scot,

14/12/2007 03:53:31
has anyone seen the haggis hunt game???
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Unicoi,

Austin, Texas 14/12/2007 05:25:24
As a former resident of the Blue Toon just north of Aberdeen, I remember the dozens of miles of sand dunes stretching all the way up to the Broch. I'm sure a little luxury golf course will hardly inconvenience the flora and/or fauna in the area of scientific interest. It'll probably just annoy the heck out of the dozen or so wild life geeks who will have to travel a bit up the road to get their fix of nature.
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juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

14/12/2007 08:51:20
#352 - yes. Talk about the hootsmons stereotyping and lack of Scottish editorial staff. If they had asked a Scottish team member they may have pointed out it was stereotyping and insulting to the Scottish populus.

I hear they have a new game in development.
Hunt the Shortbread.
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Malc.F,

france 14/12/2007 09:49:30
Can I suggest that the Aberdeen Council elect Cllr.Lackey Mc Lickspittle of the Fitivver ye wint sir Party to replace that nasty piece of principled work.I now hope that you get this crappy Golf Course with it's crappy McJobs so that this never happens again,some hope.But it won't bring back the dunes.Maybe the council can do a multi-million pond deal with some saudi arabian dune importer Sheik said al trump springs to mind.Sorry about the lack of paragraphs .How about insisting that we only use text lingo next,More dumbing down,alas.
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Ricardo,

methil 14/12/2007 10:03:42
He's a closet Green and needs to be exposed as such... he's a puddin that threw away thousands of jobs so that a desolate landscape remained desolate.