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MacAskill to show mercy to Megrahi

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Published Date: 20 August 2009
KENNY MacAskill will today announce that the Lockerbie bomber is to be released from prison and allowed to go home to Libya on compassionate grounds, The Scotsman understands.
The justice secretary has made his decision and will announce it to the world at a 1pm press conference.

Last night, preparations were under way for the release of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi from Greenock jail – a decision that will infuriate American relatives of the Lockerbie victims and many United States politicians who are convinced the Libyan is guilty of the worst mass-murder in British legal history.

Megrahi was convicted in 2001 of killing the 270 people who died when Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie in December 1988. The 57-year-old is now suffering from terminal prostate cancer and is said to have only a few weeks to live.

Read Robert Black's analysis of this story here

The expected decision to grant him a compassionate release was made despite a fresh call from US secretary of state Hillary Clinton to keep him locked up.

She said it was "absolutely wrong" to free Megrahi, adding: "We are still encouraging the Scottish authorities not to do so and we hope that they will not.

Read about the US reaction here

Mr MacAskill has also received a letter from seven US senators, urging him not to allow Megrahi to go back to Libya, and graphic letters from American relatives of some of the victims describing the grief they have suffered over the years.

Earlier this week, Megrahi's defence team formally dropped his appeal against his conviction.

This was seen by many as a deeply unsatisfactory end to two decades of investigation and legal proceedings. It means the safety of Megrahi's conviction is unlikely to be tested in court – leaving the way clear for the various conspiracy theories that have long existed about the case to continue.

There has been widespread speculation that Mr MacAskill would go down the route of granting the Libyan compassionate release.

1326hrs: Vote in our polls page:

Rumours that Megrahi was to be released intensified yesterday, after news that a police exercise involving motorcycle outriders and a vehicle with blacked-out windows had been undertaken on Tuesday night between Greenock and Prestwick airport.

The convoy was sighted simulating the necessary road and junction closures along the M77 from Glasgow; it was thought to be a rehearsal in preparation for taking Megrahi to catch a flight to Libya.

Mr MacAskill's likely decision means Megrahi could be on his way home as early as today – in time for Ramadan, which begins tomorrow.

The release of Megrahi will delight campaigners who have long believed in the Libyan's innocence. Politicians including Tam Dalyell, the former Labour MP, and Christine Grahame, the South of Scotland SNP MSP, have been long-term campaigners for his freedom.

Those who doubt his guilt say the evidence presented at his trial before three Scottish judges in the Netherlands was not strong enough to convict him.

His release will also please Libyan leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.

Last night a Scottish Government spokesman confirmed Mr MacAskill had made his decision. He said: "Justice secretary Kenny MacAskill has informed families and other interested parties that he has reached his decisions on the applications for prisoner transfer and compassionate release in relation to Mr Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al-Megrahi, and will announce his decisions (today]."

Our agony: Last-ditch bid by families to stop release

THE American relatives of the Lockerbie victims made a last emotive plea to Scotland's justice secretary for the bomber to be kept behind bars, The Scotsman can reveal.

In a final attempt to persuade Kenny MacAskill that Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi should stay in jail, the families sent deeply personal accounts of the two decades of grief they had suffered since the atrocity.

The relatives wrote letters to Mr MacAskill condemning suggestions that Megrahi is to be allowed home to Libya just eight and a half years after he was convicted of the biggest mass murder in British legal history.

Their moving testimonies arrived on the justice secretary's desk yesterday and followed the pressure from American politicians, who are demanding that Megrahi, who has terminal prostate cancer, should spend what remains of his life in jail.

The relatives said they had faith in the Scottish legal system that convicted Megrahi and pointed to assurances given by both Britain and America that the former Libyan intelligence agent would serve out his life sentence in Scotland.

Mary Kay Stratis, who was widowed after Elia Stratis died in the bombing in December 1988, told MacAskill how her husband was unable to share the formative years of their three children, who were seven, ten and 13 when he was murdered.

He did not live to see their weddings, she said, and missed out on "holding his grandchildren".

1616hrs: In pictures - Megrahi's release from prison. Click here to view

Mrs Stratis added that sanctioning the release of Megrahi on compassionate grounds or under the Prisoner Transfer Agreement signed by Tony Blair and the Libyan leader, Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi defied "any sense of justice".

Brian Flynn, brother of victim John Flynn, said Col Gaddafi sent Megrahi to bomb the flight. He asked: "How can you even consider granting the request of the author of the crime to release the perpetrator?"

Mary Lou Ciulla, who lost her husband Frank, said: "Mr Megrahi has been convicted of this horrible crime and must serve his sentence. To release him now, to give him his last days of life with his family and friends, is something we cannot condone. My husband did not get that privilege. How can we grant it to his murderer?"

Dorothy Coker, the stepmother of Jason and Eric Coker, who died, said: "Megrahi took all the wonders that life has in store from our sons, young men of 20 still unfulfilled in all that had yet to come.

"The loss we family members have felt in not having them in our lives cannot be calculated and continues each and every day.

"We feel strongly that consideration not be given to Mr Megrahi in his appeal to be sent to Libya to complete his incarceration. The idea of allowing such a thing is an outrage to us, to our children, and to all the families.

"In 20 years he has not owned up to what he did, has never expressed any remorse for killing so many nor expressed any concern for the loss dealt to all these families. To have participated in such a horrendous and outrageous act does not warrant consideration in any such request."

The letters, seen by The Scotsman, give a graphic illustration of the strength of feeling that the case has aroused in America and give an indication of the opprobrium that will be heaped on Scottish ministers who have now decided that Megrahi should go home.

The letters were compiled at Syracuse University, which lost 35 students in the disaster. They were based on their contributions to a video-conference held involving Mr MacAskill and US relatives in July.

The relatives put their feelings down on paper because their discussions with Mr MacAskill were not recorded. The letters were sent to Mr MacAskill as he made up his mind.

Frank Duggan, a Washington lawyer and President of the Victims of Pan Am Flight 103, said: "We could see him on the screen, but he was far enough away so that we could not see his facial expression.

"There were a lot of tears and he couldn't have failed to have been as moved as we were. This was the first time that we had the chance to speak about this."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 August 2009 11:28 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lockerbie
 
1

Justin Timbercake,

19/08/2009 22:39:22
A major own goal here by MacAskill and Salmond.

270 killed and the convicted terrorist is released on "compassionate grounds"?

What kind of message does this send out to other potential terrorists?

No doubt we will see the bomber getting paraded from Tripoli airport in a hero's welcome.

The SNP has just made the country a laughing stock the world over.

I look forward to Tartan day in the US next year.
2

Cynicus Unbound,

19/08/2009 23:34:47

'270 killed and the convicted terrorist is released on "compassionate grounds"?'-#1, Justin Timbercake:

You omit to say that the man is dying of prostate cancer-and has only weeks to live. It is not exactly unprecedented to release terminally ill prisoners on compassionate grounds. Only the other week, Jack Straw set free Great Train Robber Ronnie Biggs who spent half a lifetime mocking the English police and justice system. Whatever else Megrahi may have done, he has shown respect for Scottish due process -always believing it would vindicate his protestations of innocence.

You would be on stronger ground smelling the obvious rat. Why did Megrahi drop his appeal on Tuesday, only two days after the visit of Kenny MacAskill. This is the ultimate betrayal of those Americans quoted at length in the above article. They will never know the truth of this matter. The "closure" which seems a greater good than truth (to some) will forever be denied them.

3

Justin Timbercake,

19/08/2009 23:46:59
Hi Cynicus.

Ronnie Biggs never killed anyone whereas the law courts found Megrahi guilty of killing 270 people.

Not much of a comparison can be drawn there.

4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 00:05:20

A fairly inevitable outcome for decisions of high complexity, and one to-which has gambled diplomacy.

5

James at Perth,

20/08/2009 00:42:24
I guess I incline towards the Union, but never-the-less I think the expected release of Al-Megrahi is good work from the SNP administration. The Murdoch press and American opinion will doubtless round on MacAskill, but I look and laugh at all that. The winner in this is our independent mind and the dignity, justice and compassion of this Nation.
6

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 00:47:52
Although I personally disagree with sending him home I am glad that our government has come to it's own conclusion, acknowledging the interest from other parties but ultimately not being swayed.

Having a backbone and equally compassion like this will not be a characteristic recognised by the likes of Rufus and usual rabble of Scotland haters.
7

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 20/08/2009 00:48:29
What a load of c*** ! & 3. Perhaps we should let him die in prison and hand the dead body over to the US so they can "execute" it. Would that help the families or Mr Clinton's wife??

No doubt all the unionists and the Westminster government will be climbing into the SNP now for it's decision.

Well done to the Scottish Government for having the balls to make the difficult decision.
8

Cynicus Unbound,

20/08/2009 00:49:49
#3, Hello Rufus.

You miss the point.

Releasing dying criminals to die outside prison is something that we do here -even PROVEN crooks who have made a career of mocking the system .

With Megrahi we have a respecter of the system whose conviction is deemed potentially unsafe by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission. Their representations caused the second appeal, abandoned yesterday by Megrahi.

Why?

Had it anything to do with MacAskill's vist to Greenock Gaol two days previously? (Why did he do that?). I hope not. Or was it connected with Mandy Foy's meeting with Quadaffi's son in Corfu? That seems more likely.

The outcome is that we shall never know the truth about this matter. CUI BONO?
9

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 00:51:01
James @ #5

I am glad you acknowledge that this is a matter for Scotland to manage and are big enough to recognise that this matter should transcend politics.
10

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 20/08/2009 00:51:10
Perhaps we will make it onto the list of terrorist states compiles by Westminster and the US.
11

,

20/08/2009 01:00:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 01:00:55

Megrahi, Is on 'Deaths-Door', some may say that this is God's Justice, does it matter where he dies?

13

,

20/08/2009 01:06:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

James at Perth,

20/08/2009 01:08:02
#9 Dougie and others

The issues that might divide us are subordinate to those that unite us. We have to set Nation above party dogma. So let the US and the Islamic world understand the notion of the independent mind. G'night.


15

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 01:09:27
Americnas at theri cringeworthy best:-

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/reports-lockerbie-convict-will-be-released/#comment-350323
16

,

20/08/2009 01:21:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

Daft Old Git,

20/08/2009 01:35:18
The 'do gooders' wish that a terrorist convicted of the worst crime in Scotland be released on compassionate grounds as there is doubt about the safety of his conviction
Every day British troops kill suspected Taleban terrorists usually taking out a compound containing their families as well. There is no trial or appeals for them. Suspicion is enough to kill them. Let's concentrate on the real issues and not this man's illness.
Are we surprised that these people react by killing our troops?
18

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 20/08/2009 01:36:01
#1 Rufus Timberflake

Your comment is worthless because everyone knows you hate Scotland and would post invective against the Scottish Government regardless of whether MacAskill had said yes or no.

#12 Charles Linskaill

It probably matters to Megrahi. Maybe you would prefer to die well away from your family. Most of us wouldn't.

#s 6&9 Dougie Dougla and #14 James at Perth

Well said.

19

Ayr....,

Pennsylvania 20/08/2009 01:36:25
As a Scots expatriate living many years in the US, who frequently flew Pan Am between the UK and the US in the time period of this atrocity, I cannot imagine any valid compassionate reason to release this man.

Scotland is rightly proud of its justice system, so let it do its work. If he has been the victim of a miscarriage of justice, let him pursue an appeal or retrial to establish his innocence.

If this turns out to be a politically inspired release, then I am very disappointed in the actions of the Scottish Government, and I will reconsider my support for the SNP.
20

Castaway™ ,

20/08/2009 01:40:03
"Up-to-date medical reports from three eminent experts also concurred in the view that he has a very aggressive cancer, that his condition is grave and that the prognosis is extremely limited."
By dropping his appeal, Megrahi has removed one potential obstacle to his transfer to a jail in his homeland. BBC 18 August 2009

The BBC has been told that the medical advice the minister received has suggested Mr al-Megrahi may have less than three months to live, which normally qualifies a prisoner for release on compassionate grounds. BBC 18 August 2009
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 01:47:04

Just some info!
Lucky we can comment on this subject, I have noticed that all the Major News Papers, are censoring all comments made on this News article, with ferocity, one word out of place, and the commentators are sky-dust.
22

cdelta166,

Scotland 20/08/2009 01:49:38

If this is true I am proud our Scottish government has been strong enough to face down the Americans and make a judgement based on compassion and humanity .

Is he guilty or not who knows we need an Independent review for that will The UK and the Americans put all the evidence on the table
23

BROONISDOOMED,

20/08/2009 01:59:16
why arent the us citizens,asking questions,as to why certain people got a tip off,not to take flight 103
they knew what was going to happen,that makes their gov as bad as the ones who did plant the bomb
i dont believe megrahi did all this by himself,ask any ex ira bombers,just how much work went into them planting a bomb,how many it took to carry it out,cant see them saying 1 man
thatcher and regan stitched this disaster up,when they run the countries
24

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 20/08/2009 02:08:14
Now we are getting to the sharp end folks - this has nowt to do withthe Scottish Govt it's them down south who are still runing the show -


Blair, 'blood money' and a Lockerbie deal: Talks with Gaddafi hours before BP agreement


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207772/Blair-blood-money-Lockerbie-deal-Talks-Gaddafi-hours-BP-agreement.html#ixzz0OgIR923p
25

murren59,

Isle of Arran 20/08/2009 02:09:46
SNP - a disgraceful and awful decision.

No wonder this country is being destroyed
by our own neds, thugs and killers...we
can't even keep a convicted mass murderer
of 270 innocent people in jail.

Let's see if funds are magically released
from Wasteminster now for a new bridge...



26

2Right,

On Location 20/08/2009 02:12:44
#19
Scotland is rightly proud of its justice system, so let it do its work.

Do you not mean it's "Oppressive Blackmail System"

Does MacAskill think we all button up the back ?

We all know the reason Megrahi dropped his appeal, Because MacAskill made a deal with him during his visit which was evident when his QC spoke at court the other day and said: Megrahi was of the opinion that by dropping his appeal MacAskill would look more favourable on his application for Compassionate Release.

This was the only reason for dropping his appeal.

MacAskill should be ashamed for bringing this disgrace on Scotland, Blackmailing an Innocent Dying Man
27

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 02:33:17
~26.
2Right,
And "rightly proud of" the Scotsman News Paper!
NO Other UK News Paper can you make comment on this Story, this speaks mountains, about our justice system, to-which others do not want to understand, and would rather disregard.
Thank God!, I am Scottish, and Proud of it!

28

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 02:41:44
Doesn’t anyone think this to be a very brave decision after Mr Salmond’s audience with Mrs Clinton a number of months ago to gain American help?
29

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 20/08/2009 02:45:16
19 Ayr

The Scottish justice system did its work as you requested.

26 2Right

You are 2Wrong. Megrahi would be dead before another trial could be arranged. MacAskill brought no disgrace on Scotland.

25 Murren59

So your only interest in this case is whether the benign UK government will release funds fo the bridge, then? How commendable.



30

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 02:47:00
What are the Scottish government going to do with all of that lovely cash saved which it is likely to save from sending this prisoner home?


31

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 02:50:38

The Ultimate was not our decision!,..
..God has passed his Judgment! Megrahi is at deaths-door, he will meet in his case, the fiery-gates, does it really matter where?
NO!!

32

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 02:54:43

The End Justice was done, Praise the Lord!


33

stephen mccall,

Lomita,Ca 20/08/2009 02:56:02
Doubt we will ever know full story,kudos to Scotland for being "Brave" in the face of international pressure.Not a trace of sympathy though for Megrahi as even if he is innocent in this instance he most certainly murdered countless others in his chosen vocation.The truth is something we will never get from Obama or Brown.
34

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 02:56:25
(#25) – (murren59) – Am I right in thinking you are talking ironically about a new Forth crossing in the shape of a bridge, as this Scottish administration chose the Edinburgh tram scheme over funding on the needed crossing project?
35

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 20/08/2009 02:59:30
Regan's dead,,,and Margaret Thatcher is not quite compos mentis nowadays or so we are lead to believe, but there will be records somewhere with the evidence, or am I being a bit simplistic? These conspiracy theories are very tricky, but I have no doubt that something in the state of Denmark is rotten, or whatever the reference is I am hunting for, it is three in the morning, and I'm suffering from insomnia
36

famie,

australian 20/08/2009 03:01:26
The American system of justice it seems is find a scapegoat as quick as possible with no sense of justice in the picture. It seems quite a feat for one human being to have managed this horror alone. The USA is a bully and it is about time the rest of the English speaking world stood up to this menace which Scotland has done in this case.
37

bma83,

New York 20/08/2009 03:14:33
I find it quite disturbing and very pathethic that many here are turning this into a "US Be Damned!" thing. Please inform me, what grave sin has the US done to Scotland and its people. You know who I have compassion for. The ones who actually deserve it. The ones who got the phone call telling them that the man convicted of killing their sons, daughters, husbands, and wives is going to be let go so that he can be with his family. I can't fathom the pain that would bring.
38

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 03:15:10
(#36) – (famie) – If you actually believe what you are saying then why only the English speaking world?

Is it only gratifying for you if you can understand why someone might stand up to the USA as long as it is in English?
39

bma83,

New York 20/08/2009 03:22:47
famie, thank you for adding to my belief that the UK and Europe are full of conceited, uppity individuals. How the hell does the idea of the US being a bully play into this? The vaste majority of those killed were Americans—on an American airline. Sec. of State Clinton requested for this man to stay in jail to serve the time he was given. That is her right. The families of the victimes requested for this man to stay in jail to serve the time he was given. That is definetly their right. They didn't the demand. The US didn't demand. They simply asked for Scotland to follow through on the justice it said it was going to serve. Leave the anti-US bigotry out of this.
40

Graeme,

Guangzhou 20/08/2009 03:24:44
If this is correct, this decision brings shame on Scotland. As a proud Scot I apologize to all the families affected.
41

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 03:31:08
#37 - get a grip.

All you are reading are some home truths that are coming out because you are trying to ram your your perspectives on us.

Have you forgotten that many Scots were murdered also, why does America take this show of compassion as a slight?

What an utterly bizarre perspective - and one that wins you few friends. As China becomes ever more powerful America needs it's friends more now than ever and would be well advised not to be too critical of the legal workings of one of her closest allies.
42

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 03:34:27
(#39) – (bma83) – What was it about the UK and Europe which made you believe it is full of conceited, uppity individuals?

In what way are you going to prove it?
43

Jason,

Japan 20/08/2009 03:34:48
The fact that the US is putting pressure on the Scottish Justice Secretary is reason enough to “spit in Hilary’s eye”. Because anything that degrades the so-called special relationship has to be a favourable development. Consider the consequences for the UK of blindly supporting the United States' misguided foreign policy in the last decade alone.
If you had a close friend or relative on PanAm Flt.103, and were convinced that al-Megrahi was innocent, surely you'd be in favour of him being released. Naturally you prefer if his appeal were upheld, as that would bring the real perpetrators one step closer to justice. Because it really looks as if al-Megrahi was made to “take one for the team".
44

,

20/08/2009 03:39:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
45

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 03:40:58
(#41) – (Dougie Dougla) – Do you then believe this show of compassion will ease the suffering of the families of the victims of the bombed plane, be them American, Scottish or what ever?
46

Tess McClure,

United States 20/08/2009 03:44:47
After reading comments on this article and others, there seems to be a far amount of anger at the US...I'm not here to address that, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I will say that releasing this man for 'compassionate' reasons is a slap in the face to all who died that horrible day and to their families. I have to wonder...If a man blew up a school or office building killing hundreds of innocent people somewhere in Scotland....Would you want him released?
47

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 03:51:16
(#43) – (Jason) – If you are trying to spit into someone’s eye do you not aim to make sure the spit is not returned so easily on the prevailing wind?
48

bma83,

New York 20/08/2009 03:51:47
Little Dougie, how the hell am I raming my perspective on you and your countrymen? If anything, your country is raming it's perspectives on my countrymen, seeing as you're letting a man convicted of killing more than 200 people go. You want to know why America takes this fake ass show of compassion as a slight? Well, how about because he killed over 200 people. How about because, despite all of the impassioned letters to keep this murderer in jail, the Scotish government is letting him go home to be with his family. Where is the compassion for the victims familes? All they got was a damn phone call.
I find your perspective bizarre. I find that allowing a man convicted of killing over 200 people (and I'll keep saying that) go home because he has cancer to be ridiculous. What the hell is the point of giving out sentences if you’re not going to follow through with them? Do you let all of your prisoners go home when they're sick?
It's sad how you and your lot like to make this political. You want to make this a US vs Scotland and the world thing? Go ahead. But your anti-US bigotry is quite old.
49

morris,

edinburgh 20/08/2009 04:00:22
46 Releasing this man is an act of compassion .

The USA has no place here and Hilary Clinton should know it now.She should have known it before.

This man is dying and human life is human life.If the USA feels its a slap in the face,then you are entitled to an opinion also.
Allowing him to die in a different location makes no difference to anything or anybody unless they want it to.
Its maybe time somebody told the USA YOU DONT POLICE THIS PLANET .We look after our own gardens.
What happens in/over Scotland is subject to our laws and that applies universally of course,and the decision is OURS to make. We have done so.

If you feel slapped in the face thats up to you. We feel that we have made the correct decision based upon our desire to belong to the human race ,not the rat race.You dont tell us how to run Scotland and we wont tell you how to run the USA sounds a fair deal to me.
50

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 04:05:16
(#48) – (bma83) – If 200 Scots had been blown out of the sky in a Scottish aircraft over New York and an American administration had decided to grant clemency in similar circumstances would all the calls in the world change the decision?
51

Tess McClure,

20/08/2009 04:11:54
Morris: 'A human life is a human life'...Does that also apply to the 270 who lost their lives on PanAm 103 and on the ground in Lockerbie?

And Ewan: If a Scottish airliner had been blown up over New York, we would Never give the killer clemency.

Yes...Scotland does have the right to make it's own decisions. But, the US has the right to be outraged.
52

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 04:13:17
(#49) – (morris) – If this Scottish government had said at the very beginning no amount of political pressure from elsewhere would sway this deliberation process would there have been these types of political pressure administered?
53

bma83,

20/08/2009 04:16:47
Well, first of all, Ewan, I would hope my country would be smart enough not to grant clemency to someone convicted of killing over 200 people. But to answer your question, since it’s a hypothetical, I really don't know. I would like to think that it would matter. Now, I don't know if you guys do this in Scotland, but here in the US, the vicitms familes are allowed to speak at a convicted criminal’s sentencing. What the victims familes have to say weighs heavyly on the sentence given to the convicted. So if the Scotish familes implored the US government to keep the man convicted of killing 200 of their countrymen in prison, I would like to say that US would resonsider releasing him.
54

mark mccann,

20/08/2009 04:17:48
Can I just remind everyone about the Scotsman with asbergers syndrom who is in the process of being extradited to the U.S. for hacking into their defence computers. He is facing a 40 years in the U.S. penal system for something that hurt no-one. And the Americans have the cheek to tell us what is justice.
55

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 04:21:06
(#51) – (Tess McClure) – As I have stated a set of conditions, regardless of what you have already stated, do you believe an American administration would have its collective mind changed by others in the stated same conditions, or back down from its decision?
56

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 04:35:23
(#53) – (bma83) – Do you believe that clemency is the product of intelligence when as you say victim’s families in America are allowed to sway the direction and the content of a criminal case?

If you are trying in a clumsy way to insult the Scottish people, who generally believe in anti-elitism, then why don’t you consider to read a book by one of your own called Arthur Herman called “The Scottish Enlightenment: The Scots' Invention of the Modern World” and consider what position the American nation might have been in without us?
57

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Former Nationalist 20/08/2009 04:37:15
This is utterly contemptable!

This is unexplainable!

This is weak, uncaring and uncompassionate.

The issue here is not about compassion on the grounds this animal is dying. Its about compassion and empathy to the families of the victims. This animal killed 270 human beings, where was his compassion and empathy?

This is totally the wrong outcome of a government I once respected. By making the descision it has this Scottish government has shown weakness, stupidness and an acute inability to understand the real issues. This imature move proves they are not ready for power in an independent nation.

As a Scot I apologise to the victims families for this abhorant and wrong descision from my government. I personally can not make amends, my only option is to vote against them at the next election which is what I will do. Being a life long Nationalist, this is hard for me but the only right thing to do.

The animal was proven guilty and subsequently jailed for this terrible crime. It should die in the isolation of prison, it deserves no compassion. Its just plain wrong wrong wrong.
58

bma83,

20/08/2009 04:44:47
Ewan, I have a question for you. Do you feel that everyone who is convicted of a crime, no matter how horrific it is, deserves clemency?

And in regards to the second part of your question…What are you talking about? I in no way insulted the Scottish people. If anything, it's the Scottish people (i'm guessing) on here that's insulting the American people.
59

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 04:47:32
(#57) – (Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife) – Do you believe those who instigated and carried out Operation El Dorado Canyon empathize with anyone but themselves?
60

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Former Nationalist 20/08/2009 04:54:20
#59I speak my opinion.

You speak your opinion.

Democracy in action. Its just that speak through my mouth, you speak through your rear orrifice.

Tata the noo
61

Phil C,

20/08/2009 04:54:50
Given Megrahi's health, a final fast-track appeal could have been arranged. If there were any doubts about the conviction, then he could have been released without the grating of teeth.

If the evidence remained firm, then he could have been released on compassionate grounds or left to die in prison. Holyrood's choice with individual members' votes being made public.

If he had died in the meantime, well tough luck!

Anyway, the decision's apparently been made and I support it, even if I think it's the wrong one.
62

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 05:03:27
(#58) – (bma83) – What makes you believe that I might be calling for clemency or would even consider to do so on the basis of the crime alone over the condition of the prisoner?

Though by the way you have directed you comments it is obvious you have directed them towards the Scottish people as a whole where in turn can you prove that the Scottish people as a whole have reciprocated and have insult your people?
63

Tess McClure,

United States 20/08/2009 05:03:57
No, Ewan, I don't believe the US would change it's mind or have it changed by anyone. And clearly to you, that's what this is about....The Scottish Government made up it's mind, that's it. Fine; I agree they have the right to do that. But I have to question a government that puts the need of a terrorist above justice.
64

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 05:15:08
BMA83

I'm sorry if you cannot get your head around this decision and are still feeling indignant that other countries have different measures of compassion.

For your information I think he should stay in jail, but still support my government to make an independent decision with all the facts in front of them, facts that you nor I have.

Kinda crazy us old world people who support one thing but can understand another perspective, huh?
65

bma83,

20/08/2009 05:18:09
Ewan, maybe I'm reading you wrong, but your question to me "Do you believe that clemency is the product of intelligence when as you say victim’s families in America are allowed to sway the direction and the content of a criminal case?" is what made me question the way you would deal out clemency.

And regarding the second part of your comment, again, i ask, what are you talking about? I think it's clear that my comments were directed to those who were making this into a US vs Scotland situation. My comments were directed to those who feel the need to sprew out their anti-US bigotry. How was that not clear to you?
66

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 05:25:17
(#60) – (Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife) – Though you might have stated your opinion but where exactly did I do the same?

“Democracy in action. Its just that speak through my mouth, you speak through your rear orrifice.”

Should there not have been an “I” between the “that” and the “speak”, and haven’t you also been speaking through your own “Rs” to a greater extent than most might have thought to have been necessary considering your error in the addition of an extra “R” in your own orifice?
67

brizerwatt,

singapore 20/08/2009 05:37:08
I was working in SanDiego when the USS.Vincennes blew an Iranian passenger plane out of the air accidently only to be followed a few months later by the PanAm flight being bombed over Lockerbie. Everyone in San Diego at the time knew who blew it up and why. It certainly wasnt the Libyans. Al Megrahi was a patsy handed over by Libya to placate American and British public opinion and allow Libya back in from the cold.
His release now in the face of all this International pressure is the only right thing to do. I fear it will prevent the truth from ever coming out in this matter which is what the relatives of those poor people murdered deserve, however their right to justice is not served by holding an innocent man in prison. The whole thing stinks and it always has, Kenny MacASkill has at least the chance to do one honest thing in the whole stinking business.
68

Joseph M. Cachia,

Malta 20/08/2009 05:39:59
Justice, compassion, reasonable doubt are all understandable, but I do not see any compatibility for revenge as unfortunately is depicted in a lot of comments.
However, although it won't bring back our loved ones, nobody dared mention the compassionate gratuity claimed and paid out to the relatives of the poor victims!
Are we making another deal in our arguments to strive to attain justice?

Joseph Cachia
Malta
69

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 05:44:38
(#63) – (Tess McClure) – If justice is the punishment of crimes committed then do you believe this man’s imminent death is an easy way for him or his family?

Do you believe his own family are to blame for his crimes?

Is death actually a need?
70

Ewan Randall,

20/08/2009 05:54:40
(#65) – (bma83) – If you are stating a US vs Scotland situation are you not inadvertently creating said situation by highlighting it when actually what might be really happening is that you have entered an argument which has been engaged from many different angles?
71

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 05:56:51
BMA83 you are turning this into a farce, this is a serious matter.

Just because someone disagrees with your point does not make them 'anti' you.

It's this overly simplistic view of the world and agressive reaction to others that disagree that gives Americans a bad name.

Chill
72

brizerwatt,

singapore 20/08/2009 05:59:24
I think for people to see this in terms of the Scottish Justice Minister being compassionate (in an almost religious manner) are deluding themselves. This decision will has been taken with all the available evidence and with a cold , hard look at the facts of the case. Only then will compassion come into it. The fact are behind his release not any anti-Americanism or lilly livered Liberalism and certainly no pandering to outside influences.
73

bma83,

20/08/2009 06:06:11
I'm turning this into a farce? Yeah, 'cause comments like:
"The American system of justice it seems is find a scapegoat as quick as possible with no sense of justice in the picture. It seems quite a feat for one human being to have managed this horror alone. The USA is a bully and it is about time the rest of the English speaking world stood up to this menace which Scotland has done in this case. "
is perfectly appropiate.

And you know what, maybe i am being simple. Tto me, fair is fair, kill over 200 people and your butt deserves to rot in jail. If that view gives Americans a bad name, then so be it. Although, i'm quite sure, Americans aren't the only ones who feel that way.
74

Tess McClure,

20/08/2009 06:17:48
I'm sorry Ewan, I don't understand your comment. His death is 'natural'.

I still wish 'Someone' could give a solid reason as to why this terrorist is being released? You can't tell me that through out all of the prisons in Scotland he is the only dying of cancer....Why not open the gates and let them all go home to die?
75

Pocket Dictionary,

20/08/2009 06:23:30
According to the BBC release from jail on compassionate grounds is much rarer than is being made out on these forums.

America didn't give a stuff about terrorism until it started to affect them. For years convicted IRA terrorists were feted by Irish Americans and their politicians. They applauded them when they were freed from long jail sentences and some were entertained in the Whitehouse under the Good Friday Agreement. What about justice for Marie Wilson, three year old jonathon Ball, twelve year old Tim Parry and the others who died in IRA bombings? Killed by explosives bought by money raised on America's East Coast, where most of the Pan Am families live. Remember the fund rasing slogan? "Give a dollar to kill a British soldier".

American Politicians were very much behind the Good Friday Agreement and the convicted Irish terrorists were not released on ompassionate grounds. But only because American citizens were killed, the likes of "Chappaquidic" Kennedy want Mr Megrahi to die in jail. A man who's trial was condemed by the UN observers as a miscarriage of justice and is probably innocent.

Regardless of the political party in power, it was the right decision to allow Mr Magrahi to return home to be with his family.

In the words of your own language - American's butt out of Scottish affairs.
76

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 06:30:50
7 for Scotlands Future-surely it has nothing to do with the Scottish Government having" balls"? Your comments inadvertantly betray something here. Either way the decision would have to be a difficult one. I wonder what you would have said if MacAskill had decided not to release him-'well done to the Scottish Government for having the balls to stand up for the Lockerbie victims?'
77

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 06:41:12
75 Pocket Dictionary-good post but also 74 tess Mclure has a point! Basically depends on whether you view a Justice system as being in the business of general compassion as in the Christian tenet of "lovng one's neighbour" or should justice deal only with facts and letters of the law. The argument that al Megrahi might have been innocent is of no relevance-he was found guilty in a Court of Law. Also perhaps we should recognise that compassion is or should be a two way street-the hundrds killed in the bombing were human beings-not numbers. But then again if we fail to show the compassion that we expect of enlightened humanity,we in effect,become what we seek to overcome!

Difficult question-I dont know the answer.
78

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 06:59:53
I know its not exactly the preferred 'cup of tea' of many on these forums but the Telegraph has an interesting article on the subject today including the comments! According to one post only 7 out of the last 30 appeals for release on compassionate grounds-due to terminal illness-were granted in Scotland!!
79

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20/08/2009 07:14:22
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80

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 20/08/2009 07:17:33
There used to be a saying some years ago "Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see".

I was reminded of it yesterday as I watched Hillary Clinton making her plea on behalf of the American victims' families. Her body language was all over the place; she kept looking at her feet, anywhere but into the camera. It was all a big act, albeit poorly performed.

There is obviously a political agenda going on. The decision to free Megrahi on compassionate grounds, if that is what has been decided, is correct. The politics has been in the dropping of his appeal, obviously to bury truths that may bring a few governments into dis-repute. There is also the trade deals for the Libyan oilfields.

Kenny MacAskill needs to rise above all this and promise the Scottish people an enquiry into why the Scottish Police and the Scottish Courts were allowed to be dragged into the mud by UK and foreign intelligence agents.
81

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 07:19:05
Sense talked by Jim Squire i think:

Dr Jim Swire, whose daughter Flora died, said: 'I am someone who does not believe he is guilty. The sooner he is back with his family, the better. Everything points to a miscarriage of justice in the case.

'On reasonable human grounds it is the right thing to do and if it's true that he is to be returned on compassionate grounds, then that would be more to Scotland's credit than returning him under the prisoner transfer agreement.'

Martin Cadman, who lost his 32-year-old son Bill, said: 'I think he is innocent and even if he were not, I still think it's the right thing to do on compassionate grounds.'

He said Americans convinced of Megrahi's guilt and sceptical of his illness should 'get real'.

'(They should) remember that the likely cause of the bombing was the shooting down by an American ship of an Iranian Airbus in 1988,' he said.

Read more: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1206190/Lockerbie-bomber-suffering-cancer-moved-Libya-compassionate-grounds.html#ixzz0OhZXoDK3
82

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 07:23:29
81 Nevsky-Jim Swire and Martin Cadmans thoughts are interesting. I wonder what the families of the other 268 victims think?
83

Tess McClure,

20/08/2009 07:24:47
Pocket Dictionary: 'Butt out of Scottish affairs'.

But the vast majority of victims were American...College students going home for Christmas. Again..Tell me why the man who slaughtered 270 people should be released.
84

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20/08/2009 07:25:43
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85

Tynietiger,

20/08/2009 07:26:41
The opportunist and cowardly criticism by opposition politicians of Kenny MacAskill's handling of the Libyan request to release Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi (your report, 18 August) ignores the fact that, legally, he cannot comment before coming to a decision and ignores the role of the UK government in this complex situation.
Gordon Brown and Tony Blair have been fawning over Libyan leader Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi for the past few years, despite massive human rights violations, to try to get into Libya's vast oilfields.

Following Mr Blair's prisoner transfer deal without consulting the Scottish legal system in 2007, at the recent G8 meeting in Italy, Gordon Brown granted Gaddafi a private meeting and this was closely followed by Peter Mandelson "accidentally" meeting Col Gadaffi's son last week in Corfu just before news of Megrahi's possible release was leaked to the BBC in London.
86

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20/08/2009 07:34:22
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87

Russell M,

Stirling 20/08/2009 07:34:24
After 10 generations under the thumb we've little idea what justice and compassion really look like. Many have been propagandised into trying the softly/prohibition route. An experiment which is already proving a disaster except the victims haven't been told yet. And as to what the rest of the world really thinks about Scotland -- we've also little idea. We are desperately trying to shed much of our "embarrassing" cultural heritage and fit into EU banality. The Acts of Proscription writ large.
Say what you mean, mean what you say. We've unofficially joined the lusterless ranks of nations who've abolished life imprisonment, but the judiciary & parliament don't have the fortitude to make it law.
When Britain ruled the world we didn't care whether the natives liked us or not. We knew we were improving their lives, therefore they should have had the good grace to keep quiet and get on with it. The Americans, sadly in Europeans eyes, want to be liked by everyone, which has engendered an undercurrent of anti-Americanism and disrespect.
IF it's blindingly obvious that Megrahi didn't commit the crime. Then why didn't we admit it officially?
Where was compassion on the night of Wednesday 21 December 1988? When all 243 passengers and 16 crew of a Boeing 747-121 named Clipper Maid of the Seas died along with 11 residents of Lockerbie, Scotland. Many on impact after falling 31,000-feet (9,400 m), which would have taken about two minutes.
88

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 07:35:08
82 Geoff*

Well everyone has sympathy for the families but what is gained by taking vengence on a man whose guilt is in considerable doubt?

I think most people believe he was a fall guy and Jim Squire is more of an expert on the matter than anyone here.

Let's also not forget that Blair initiated the prosioner transfer agreement and that Brown has had talks regarding this case to secure oil rights in Libya....that is a disgrace.

At least the Scottish Government can be shown to show compassion to a dying man without any cash involved!

89

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 07:38:05
86 SNP*

You agreed with the release of all the IRA and Unionist muderes though? That's ok?

Playing politics with this shows that most of the unionists on here are little better than bottom feeders when it boils down to it.

Your motives are disgusting..have a word with yourself!

90

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/08/2009 07:38:07
A difficult decision well handled with quiet dignity and within a very short time scale by Kenny MacAskill.

Of course whatever the outcome was to be, he would be subjected to the yelping from the hyenas on the sidelines.
It is to his credit that he has shown himself to be above being influenced by any external pressures exerted by powerful lobbyists such as Mrs Clinton.

I remain disappointed that the second appeal was abandoned and it is not clear to me why the defence team claimed that by doing so, they believed this would assist the release process.

The Crown Office has not as yet abandoned their appeal against the sentence, therefore ruling out the possibility of a release under the Blair-Gaddafi PTA.

Perhaps if this appeal goes ahead, there might just yet be a final twist to this saga.
91

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 20/08/2009 07:39:10
Kenny, bought and sold for Libyan gold?
92

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 07:39:35
Despite being no fan of the current Scottish Government or the SNP, and sick to death of its fawning cheerleaders on this site, I yet again find that Kenny MacAskill is acting in a decent and appropriate manner, and I applaud the Government's action in standing up to US pressures and applying the rule of law fairly here. Release on compassionate grounds is exactly what should happen.
93

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 07:40:15
91 Merchant*

Afraid it was Brown who discused his release for oil rights..keep up!

Brown's moral compass...cash!
94

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20/08/2009 07:41:33
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20/08/2009 07:46:58
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96

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 20/08/2009 07:47:30
What`s the betting his life expectancy is dramatically increased?
97

Tess McClure,

20/08/2009 07:49:07
Dan...Why do I come across as ignorant? Did not 270 people die that night?

Oh heck...Don't bother with an answer, I have a feeling if people don't agree with you they are considered ignorant.
98

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 07:49:49
#86

LOL

And you sir sound like a complete %$#&, but I do have to take my hat off to you - what great, little, catchy soundbites you scribe ' on scums side', complete genius. I can imagine you chapping on doors in Glasgow north droning on about 'on scums side'.

Who in the labour party has a shot of the brain today?
99

Ben Thehoose,

20/08/2009 07:51:17
We should never, on principle, do anything the Americans tell us to do. The Americans' track record abroad is dire. They should sort out their own middens first.

That said, the odds are on Magrahi enjoying a miraculous recovery once home and dry.
100

Ewan M,

20/08/2009 07:52:56
Why are the vast majority of the victims families opinions second to Megrahi's? Imagine this was your son or daughter.

The SNP supporters on this site trying to justify agaisnt this fact are beyond contempt........
101

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 07:55:11
#94

Most of the time he is, yes.

#92

Well done Duncan

#97

I'm sure you are a lovely lady Tess but you are becoming quite repititive. Yes 270 people were murdered that night, yes lots of them were Americans but that does not change the fact that this crime was committed in Scotland and therefore comes under our legal system, a different one from America, you really need to get your head around this simple point - please. And lastly, many Scots were murdered also, and no, our government does not release murderers without good reason. Gottit?
102

Soosider,

Glasgow 20/08/2009 07:56:02
Compassion is about those who give it not those who receive it. If the decision is to release Megrahi on compassionate grounds, then I think this would be the proper decision. It is based on principles of Scottish Justice which is why the legislation exists in the first place. It does seem as if many posters are confused on the matter, it is not about guilt or innocence. It is about mercy and compassion.
This must have been a hard decision but the Justice Secretary must be congratulated on his quiet and dignified handling of the matter. Regrettably many posters on here seem to represent the usual sirens, who would howl no matter what decision was made, they appear to have no principles and demonstrate little humanity.
103

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 07:56:42
Ewan, where are the SNP supporters saying that?
104

Tess McClure,

20/08/2009 08:01:02
I have a question. How much of this is about 'The Americans' (which seems to be a dirty word in Scottish society at the moment) 'butting into your judicial and political system'. Or, do you believe this man deserves his freedom...If even for a short time.

I have to tell you, from the comments I've read, it's about giving a big F...You to the States.
105

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/08/2009 08:01:30
100 Ewan M

Have you any evidence that given all the facts in this issue, a non-SNP Justice Minister would have reached a different conclusion?
106

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20/08/2009 08:01:56
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107

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20/08/2009 08:07:03
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108

Vivas,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 08:08:29
MacAskill is doing the right thing and to hell with the inevitable unpopularity that comes his way. Compassion in these particular circumstances is justified. The US may not like it, but given their own downing of an Iranian passenger jet, and a history of political and bloody military intervention ranging from central/S.America to Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan ... to Guantanamo ... their governments posturing moral position on Megrahi is dubious to say the least.
109

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 08:08:59
#104 Can't speak for anyone else but for me this has absolutely nothing to do with the US - though I think it is utterly offensive for Clinton to try to influence the decision - and everything to do with the rule of law. There are plenty of domestic voices arguing against compassionate release, we don't need the US as a bogeyman here.

In any event, no matter the sincerity of some of the families in the US, I think Clinton's posturing is hollow and largely just for show. The US needs Megrahi to go to his grave with his conviction intact, and compassionate release ensures that better than any other action. The US got what it wanted when Megrahi dropped his appeal. The rest is window dressing and politics.
110

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 08:11:04
#106

I think not.

I personally think he should have stayed in jail but I can appreciate that there are other perspectives, there is evidence that I have not seen, compassionate issues I am not fully aware of. The Government has made it's decision after surveying these complex issues, I do support their right to make an independent decision, unswayed by external pressures even I do not fully understand it.

So your assertions are utterly wrong, you have the black and white, ill formed and aggressive views usually associated with a labour troll.


111

john z,

edinburgh 20/08/2009 08:13:36
Well done Mr.MacAskill. Despite the Labour clowns, and the bullying by the USA, you have kept your primciples and adhered to the guidance of the Scottish justice system.

Thanks goodness, we have a competent person of principle in the position of justice secretary in Scotland, rather than the previous Labour gobsh*te half wit, who made so many blunders it was just sad to see.

Whatever the decision, Scots Law has been upheld, and the Scottish Government have discharged their duty correctly.
112

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 08:13:37
#107

Show us the post number
113

an interested party,

20/08/2009 08:14:17
released to die, held in jail to die, convicted, not convicted, none of this will bring back any of the life's from the incident, nor will any of it lead to the truth

the truth is the most important thing and i seriously doubt it will ever come out
114

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 08:16:04
A decision to release a CONVICTED criminal should reflect the wishes of the victims families first and foremost.

These have clearly been ignored and it's time MacAskill and Salmond took a walk of the (existing and only) Forth Road bridge.
115

john z,

edinburgh 20/08/2009 08:18:21
Could people just grasp one fact;

Megrahi is not being set free, he is going home to die.



116

Morry,

Scotland 20/08/2009 08:19:58
If, you commit the crime, you do your time.

Personally, I believe the man should stay in and die in prison.

I think it is a sad day for Scotland when it says to the rest of the world that we are a soft nation, Independence the dream of many seems forlorn,

For McAskill to release this criminal or any other criminal on "compassionate grounds" is a kick in the teeth to the families of those killed and the "Scottish rule of Law"
117

walter,

20/08/2009 08:20:36
A convicted murderer of 270 innocent people who had one appeal dismissed and who has denied those who believe him innocent their day by dropping his second appeal even though he did not have to since he was applying to be released on compassionate grounds is to be released on those very grounds.
Then we have those who believe he should not be released on any grounds as he has not been able to prove his innocence so should stay in jail until he dies for his crime.
Then we have those who do not care if he is innocent or guilty they may even believe he is guilty but that does not matter to them, all they care about is that the SNP exclusive have made the decision to release him and are using that fact to attack anyone who believes he should not be released as anti Scottish, Scotland haters and any other derogatory names they can think of.
The world must certainly laugh at Scotland when they read the comments on here from the so called grown up attitude of those who want independence.
118

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20/08/2009 08:21:59
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119

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 08:26:15
118

Nice one, you totally out-smarted my there. By the way I think this is what your looking for:-

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

www.snu.co.uk

?
120

Rob Royston,

20/08/2009 08:27:14
Let's look behind the rhetoric. Every politician in the UK and the US wants Megrahi freed; they just don't want their voters to think they are weak.

Letting Kenny MacAskill take the flak suits everyone, even his own party colleagues.

What Scotland needs is an enquiry into why the Scottish police allowed the CIA to helicopter in and take over the crime scene and how, subsequently, the Scottish legal system was rail-roaded into hosting a mock trial.
121

fresian,

20/08/2009 08:29:58
Let's hope the government will now have the b4lls to tell the yanks where they can stick their request for the extradition of the hacker.
122

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20/08/2009 08:30:43
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123

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 08:32:15
#117

Utter nonsense Walter.

I and many SNP posters have stated that they would prefer to see him stay in jail but can accept that the government has come to a different, more compassionate decision.

What is apparent, apart from exceptions like Duncan from Edinburgh, most of you unionists are going down the same, sad, knee-jerking predictable path of taking the polar opposite view of the SNP gov. That's what is predictable
124

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 08:33:11
#120
Agreed
125

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20/08/2009 08:36:12
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126

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 08:37:04
hey 'The SNP are a disgrace'

here are some other ideas for your 'location'

'SNP are pure bastarts'
'get them tae'
'nae brains, nae baws'
'i'm still bitter from May 07'
'it's no fair, bigger boys are running things now'
127

vcmoksfmofesamofaim,

far away 20/08/2009 08:38:01
Yesterday I argued against release because the appeal had been dropped. Hadn't thought about the potential martyr angle: an innocent man, fitted up by a 'Scottish' court dying in a Scottish prison. Seems Kenny Macaskill was indeed thinking of the interests of the Scottish people here rather than any party-political considerations. Just as well I'm not in government.
128

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20/08/2009 08:41:46
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129

Dougie Dougla,

It's no fair theyve got dicshunurys n nat no 20/08/2009 08:44:57
Anyway, I shouldn't react to such lowly posts bye bye
130

letmein,

20/08/2009 08:46:21
#34 ewan randall.
This Scottish Administration did not choose the tram scheme, it was the labour ar#eh#les. Get real before you trumpet rubbish.
131

letmein,

paisley 20/08/2009 08:47:32
#128 are you george foulkes or ian grey, maybe rufus. Certainly not very clever!
132

Steve McGregor,

Dundee 20/08/2009 08:50:42
It was inevitable that al-megrahi was going to be released. Thanks to the bullying attitude shown from the washington.
133

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 08:51:51
128 SNP*

Not trying to 'twist' anything. Here is the headline and the link.

Brown has been accused of negotiating the relase to secure oil rights in Libya...you need some perspective..your vitriol is making you look like a clown!

'Brown accused by Lockerbie relatives over Tripoli 'deal''

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/legal-and-constitutional/brown-accused-by-lockerbie-relatives-over-tripoli-deal--$1319838.htm
134

Labour Party Member,

20/08/2009 08:52:11
Well done SNP. The correct decision was made.
135

Obanite,

20/08/2009 08:54:30
He was going to be damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

As this is a matter of quite some debate, it is surprising (perhaps it shouldn't be) that so many of the SNP supporters are convinced this is the right decision..and equally that so many of the Labour supporters are convinced it is wrong.

At the end of the day, this is "our" prisoner and Scotland can do what we like with him. I bet there are numerous amongst you who were shouting about the enormous cost of keeping this vermin in prison, never mind us shelling out money to pay for his care.

I'm not convinced this is the right decision, but at the end of the day it was the sort of decision that the SNP were elected to make.
136

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

20/08/2009 08:54:45
He should be freed not because he has cancer but because it is an injustice that he was jailed in the first place. Anyone who has followed this case closely and read the extent to which the CIA tampered with material evidence and witnesses must have a serious doubt about a conviction.

The sad thing now is that with the seond appeal dropped (a tawdry little deal perhaps?) the only way we will ever know the truth is to have a public enquiry. As Jim Swire, whose 24-year-old daughter Flora died on the flight and is the spokesman for UK Families Flight 103 has said:

"It is very important to the members of UKF103 campaign group that there be a full review of the entire Lockerbie scenario through an appropriately powered and independent inquiry, but absence of a further review of the court case would also damage our search for truth and justice."

If MacAskill releases Megrahi he should announce that there will be a full and extensive public enquiry into this.

It's about time the whole truth came out.
137

Soosider,

Glasgow 20/08/2009 08:55:16
So no meaningful debate/discussion on this site. Largely just the usual few self absorbed posters
138

Obanite,

20/08/2009 08:55:49
...and, comedically, "Labour Party Member" blows my post out the water...although on past experience, I'm not convinced that that is not some Nat is thin disguise!
139

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 08:58:20
#135 I'm afraid it is not in the least surprising that the "debate" on this site is almost entirely partisan - since early 2007 it has been the case, and it reflects the politics of the time, where everything is being cast as nationalist versus unionist, despite most issues being nothing to do with either. Roll on the day when we grow up out of this juvenile political state.
140

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 09:02:01
#137

Yeah it's normally so civil and intelligent the debate on the boards of the Scotsman
141

Soosider,

Glasgow 20/08/2009 09:04:00
#139
I think that is a reasonable summary of the position. Despite the evidence in this particular affair, where there has clearly been meaningful and necessary discussion and communication between the Scottish and UK agencies. So many folk seem to be unable to raise there mind to actually look at the evidence and perhaps realise that this decision although within the remit of the Justice Secretary, has involved him consulting and discussing widely.
Regrettably many of the responses on this site are almost "tribal"
142

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 09:07:26
88 Nevsky-I think you misunderstood my comments. I am genuinely unsure what to make of this complex politico-legal issue. I wondered whether the sentiments of the two you quoted were shared by the families of the other victims. Obviously there are some vehemently opposed to the release amongst them.
As always it seems that everything degenerates into a Unionist-Nationalist slanging match here which is a pity. It would be nice to debate the issue without the taint of political loyalties in an effort to reach some kind of understanding as to whether or not this is the 'right' decision, although it is probably merely an academic excercise as if, for example you read the Telegraph article,one can see thatit really boils down to the demands of Realpolitiek as with eg Saudi arms deal etc..
Justice and the pros and cons of judicial compasion really dont have much to do with it.
143

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 09:10:55
Duncan, one must ask - in who's interest is dumbing the debate?, which side of politics thrives on soundbites propelled along by a compliant media?. Papers like this being a prime example of the 'bash the nats' mentality.

From what I can see this debate is partisan on mainly one side, with your exception I can see few non SNP posters supporting what the government has done. This issue has been politicised by the unionists party, Kenny has not been able to respond to these claims and assertions made by his political foes.
144

Tartan Viking,

20/08/2009 09:11:48
#1. Timbercake - aka Roofass.

What about the 200 odd people killed when the Americans shot down the Iranian passenger jet before the PanAm flight was bombed?
145

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 09:13:39
139 Duncan*

It's all very well being self-righteous but it is not the nationalists who have brought the tone down...as usual it is the unionists.

I am a nat but do not view MacAskill's decision as a party political issue....people can agree or disagree...i happen to agree that he should be released!

Note the unionist vitriol against MacAskill and his decision...if the decision had been not to release they would have been equally manic and frothing at the mouth!

Not 1 word about Brown though i note...wonder what the usual suspects would be saying if MacAskill had talks with Gadaffi about releasing Megrahi for oil rights???
146

Courtney,

East Molesey 20/08/2009 09:15:30
Megrahi should not be entitled to mercy. Shame on you MacAskill and your leaden footed leader Salmond.
147

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 09:18:27
#143 Unsurprisingly I see it differently; I think all types of politics thrive on soundbites propelled by a compliant media, and I think SNP supporters are as polarising as any other group. For example, no-one in the Labour, Conservative or Lib Dem camps would describe themselves as a bloc, or as "unionists" - these parties are long-time combatants with very different political positions - yet it suits the SNP to simplify them into "unionists" and pretend that there is only one party which "represents Scotland". This is prime "dumbing down" as far as I am concerned.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that the blame is all on one side, but I find it laughable that you would suggest that the SNP are not engaging in just as much partisan entrenchment as their opposition.
148

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 20/08/2009 09:19:52
#139 - Thats a bit rich, Duncan, your past history of posting has been very partisan. It doesn't help that Labour are posturing directly opposite every SNP policy intially, then, like the alcohol debate, performing a 180 degree turn and surporting it.

I agree though, this is not a partisan issue. I have no doubt any of the other parties if in power would have done the same. They must be very relieved it wasn't up to them, and can snipe from the sidelines.






149

,

20/08/2009 09:20:21
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150

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 09:20:29
#145 Nevsky, it is almost beyond parody that you should complain about others bringing the tone down. Seriously, take a look at your posts on a typical day here. You are as big a part of the problem as anyone.
151

Ewan Oosami,

20/08/2009 09:21:39
This fiasco has nothing to do with justice or his alleged medical condition - read this
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207772/Blair-blood-money-Lockerbie-deal-Talks-Gaddafi-hours-BP-agreement.html
152

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 09:22:51
#148 I respectfully deny that charge. When I oppose an SNP policy I oppose it firmly; when I support it I am clear about that. Strong opposition is not partisanship.
153

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 09:23:02
150 Duncan*

I don't consider this issue a party poltical one full stop.

You of course are totally impartial on all matters nat/unionist related..haha...aye right!
154

Obanite,

20/08/2009 09:27:36
Duncan in Edinburgh - seems to be the case!

It's not really in anyones interest to dumb down debate. From what I can see, no one side has a monopoly...but then, fanatical supporters of all sides (primarily Labour and SNP on here) are quite myopic.

I guess this explains why a political party can make the most almighty balls-up and yet still attract the votes of presumably many of the punters on here!
155

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 20/08/2009 09:28:42
#152 - Yeah, whatever. Not my recollection of past events, but them again I only ever post on subjects I have an interest in, so I can't tell if you are being truthful.

156

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 09:29:13
Well it wasn't an easy decision for Kenny, but it was done in the rule of Scots law as it shoud be.

As for the dropping of the appeal, I can't think how this is good for Scots Justice. I can't imagine that Kenny and the Scots government would want him to drop this as part of his release. As in they as a government have nothing to fear.

A scenario voiced by Cynicus is that pressure from his own side made him drop it, and they were asked by none other than HMG, as this would get rid of a the potential hand granades in the appeal.

After all who believes that Mandy Foo just "bumped" into Jr on holiday.

The old question of who has most to gain or lose from the dropping of the appeal answers the question.
157

Labour Party Member,

20/08/2009 09:30:09
Obanite, I can assure you I am a Labour Party member. Membership of a Party does not exclude independent thought. There is a sense of peace that this man can return home to die. His conviction is widely viewed as unsafe and politically motivated. It is quite worrying that the Scottish Justice Process may have failed to produce justice. Many families who lost someone do not seem to of got closure, hence their understandable anger. There does need to be a proper conclusion to this. A UN Inquiry would be most welcome in this.
158

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 09:30:16
#153 I think we are arguing at crossed-purposes. Of course neither of us is impartial on the issues of nationalism or unionism. When I talk about partisanship I'm not talking about being impartial on political issues - I'm talking about turning every political issue into one which pits "unionists" against "nationalists" as if we lived in a 2-party state. That's what hampers debate on this site IMHO.
159

paul o,

Wodonga 20/08/2009 09:32:29
How's this for a 'theory'.
Megrahi, knowing that he had cancer, volunteers to take the 'heat' for the Pan-Am bombing in return for never-ending largess, for his surviving family, from the Libyan State.
This gets the USA off Libya’s back as another branch of the perceived "Axes of Evil" and allows them to back into the world of exchange and trade. It also removes the 'US target' from Gadaffie's back.

Don't forget, but for a departure delay, the aircraft would have 'blown-up' over the mid-Atlantic Ocean, leaving no clues to it's demise.

Perhaps a US agency actually destroyed the aircraft in an attempt to provide justification for yet another 'war of revenge, or liberation' against yet another antagonistic state. Don't forget, Libya has OIL!
As a final act of frustration the US shoots down an Iranian jetliner, claiming it was 'attacking' a USN destroyer. If the Iranians had responded with force, the US would have had another excuse to attack another OIL-RICH state, which is yet the member of another 'axis of evil'.
What do you think?
160

Tormod,

Auld Reekiea 20/08/2009 09:32:51
156 I forgot to add that David Millband has slapped a public interest immunity certificate on the documentation concerning Lockerbie.

Now why would he do that I wonder? Surely this infringes on the independence of Scots law and Judiciary?

161

James at Perth,

20/08/2009 09:36:26
# 140 Dougie, I think you and I come from different sides of the political spectrum, moreover, you as a personal choice would not release Al-Megrahi and I would. However, we both support the decion MacAskill seems likely to take and I suggest that there are many more like us, which is why the polling shows strong support too. Intelligent debate and broad consensus does not happen very often. Long may it continue.
162

Bikefast,

20/08/2009 09:36:30
#159.. I like your theory and it just adds to the already long list of comments and statements about something that has not yet happened and we are not certain that it is going to happen. Why can't we (press and all) just await the decision and then comment on what we then know is the case.
163

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 09:37:15
The only place this Decision should be taken is in the courts.

The only people who should be takeing the Decision
is appeal judges. That is why we have a independant Legal System.


Many are reading into this that some form of deal has been done to prevent the appeal from being held.

I am begining to form the opinion that the appeal was dropped not to save the blushes of the Scotish goverment on a succesfull appeal, but to save the blushes of the scotish goverment in releaseing a man who again has been found guilty of Mass murder if (or more likely when) the appeal fails.
164

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 20/08/2009 09:37:57
#154 - Have you followed the healthcare debate in the US. Now that is dumbed down to such a degree it is unreal. I mean people are taking the "death panels" bit seriously which is in the interest of the insurance companies.

Dumbing down is perfect when you don't have enough ammo for reasoned argument. The far right in the US are masters at it.
165

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 09:39:27
158 Duncan*

Then as this is part of the debate what is your view on the accusations that Brown (and Mandy) have been trying to secure Libyan oil rights and the trade-off being Megrahi?

No mention of it in the Scotlsman but it should be headline news as far as i am cocerned..wonder what the relatives of those who died would think??

166

A Crofter,

Western Gulf 20/08/2009 09:40:43
Many posters appear to believe that Megrahi is guilty by virtue of having been convicted by a trio of old goats dressed up in pantomime costumes!

When can I expect the oil delivery?
167

Hymooth man ,

Hame 20/08/2009 09:42:25
Plane load of Americans a few Scots from a village no body had ever heard of traded for an old done Arab with the big C
Cheap price in the eyes of our respected local government for all these Oil contracts waiting to be won in Tripoli
Money makes the world go round eh Eck!!!!!
168

,

20/08/2009 09:43:25
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169

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 09:43:50
163 His compassionate release wasn't predicated on the grounds he dropped his appeal, I agree that the decision should be taken by a judge and not a politican.
170

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 09:44:09
167 utter rubbish
171

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 09:45:18
#165 I don't think there is anything newsworthy about it at all, since it has been common knowledge since the thaw in US-Libyan relations, and the rehabilitation of Gaddafi, that improved relations will lead to improved trading, including in oil.

Personally I think it is far better politics to rehabilitate and trade with a former enemy than to invade them and try to take oil by force.

So no, I think it is neither news nor a bad thing.
172

,

20/08/2009 09:50:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
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173

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 09:51:05
#165 Nevsky you really are weird. You are saying that Brown and Mandelson aranged for the realease and MacAskill is in on it.

Talk about scrapping the barrel.

#168 If you theroy is correct that will make it impossible to criticise the SNP ever. As for a Government to call yourselves a Government is one thing to deliver manifesto pledges and act like one is another.
174

AJ Fife,

20/08/2009 09:53:27
Scotland is all the better for this decision by Mr McAskill.

The humanity of the decision speaks volumes for the sophistication of the Scottish nation. The US on the otherhand, would appear to be happy to have Megrahi's head on a spike, no matter if he was guilty or not - just as long as blame could be apportioned to someone from the Arab or Islamic world!!
175

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 09:54:28
163 I understand that there was no laid down condition of no release while the appeal runs.

However it makes the Decision to grant Compassionate release a lot simpler for Macaskill.

Let's not forget this is a political Decision Politicians will allways take into consideration the effect any fall out would have in the event of a unsuccesfull appeal come election time.
176

Adso,

20/08/2009 09:54:54
There was a good interview with Gadaffi's son on the BBC maybe a year or so ago. What he effectively said was that Libya had taken responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing. When presses repeatedly as to whether they had ordered / carried it oout he would not respond - he kept retreating to the line that they had taken responsibility as the international community required of them. Was it Libya? Maybe. Was it Megrahi alone? Maybe, probably not.

However it's not about guilt. It's about a dieing man getting sent home to his family for his last few days. Put the boot on the other foot and a UK/US soldier has been caught and jailed - would we demand his release?
177

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 09:54:55
171 Duncan*

Did not expect any other answer from you..naturally!

However the accusations are not about 'improved relations' but about the release of a prisoner to secure oil rights Duncan which you have failed to address:

'The prime minister was accused today of rushing through the ratification of a treaty to protect oil interests in Libya which allegedly involves a 'deal' to repatriate the Lockerbie bomber'

Not news? Where is your impartiality and self-righteouseness?
178

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 09:55:44
171 Of course it's newsworthy, a great deal of information has been blocked by the UK government about Lockerbie on the grounds of national security.

We might have to wait 100 years to wait and see what was none by HMG about the evidence and the trial.

So that fact that the prince of darkness met Jr and shortly after the media frenzy kicked off doesn't require a PHD in logic to figure out.
179

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 20/08/2009 09:56:01
James, yes it's good to see peoples views transcending traditional lines when important things are up for discussion!.

What's interesting about the 'debate' on these boards is that the discussion is framed by the article. Now, I do know how dyed-in-the-wool you are but i think most would agree that the majority of Scottish political articles in this paper are anti-SNP and are not focused on the issue at hand, they focus on having a dig at the SNP. This immediately sets the debate on an us v's you lot direction. Irresponsible, lazy, press release journalism serves nobody well but it's all too prevalent. It may boil down to the economics of newspapers these days but is quite easily interpreted from where I stand as propoganda.

I would never complain that our side is without it's fair share of bams, myself sometimes included but a common feature of most blogs are that the first post is by a certain poster (with many identities) known as rufus. His base, ill-informed spiteful posts mean that any debate has to drag itself from the gutter before it can ever get going.

Poor quality journalsim and the tolerance of bottom feeding trolls are the main problems in my opinion.
180

jockstrap,

Cyprus 20/08/2009 09:56:17
At the time of writing this is all speculation as Kenny MacAskill has not yet announced his decision.If he is released on compassionate grounds it may annoy some of the victims families but will not bring their loved ones back.I think that if a jury had been allowed at the trial a not proven verdict would probably have been brought in as there are a lot of anomalies in the evidence and there certainly seems to be evidence of collusion between the UK and American Govts. which the dropped appeal would have uncovered.
181

James at Perth,

20/08/2009 09:56:24
Huntly Loon wrote yesterday "Scots Law has always enshrined justice tempered with compassion. It is the mark of a civilised society. ..... We do not need lessons in justice from the country which gave the world Guantanamo."

The US does need to look at its values if it is to move on.

We are being treated to the Judge Sharon Keller hearing concerning a closed court and the allegation that the US appeals judge ignored a last-minute appeal that could have halted the execution of a death row inmate. There is a legal system to be proud of; the executed can't be set free on appeal after all.

There is no evidence that the supreme act of retribution deters or that it serves any purpose but vengeance, and if vengeance worked the world would by now be a very peaceful place.

Judge a country not by its retribution but by it's compassion.
182

Lee John,

20/08/2009 09:56:38
"Lord Mandelson met Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's son a week before reports the Libyan man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing could be freed.

The Labour peer spoke briefly about the case with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi while on holiday in Corfu, it has emerged."

But Lord Mandelson's spokesman said subsequent reports of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi's possible release from jail were "entirely coincidental".

BBC
183

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 09:57:02
175 Indeed, international politics is a dirty business at the best of time.
184

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 09:58:07
#177 Nevsky once again are you completely barking mad?

You are saying that Gordon Brown told MacAskill to make this decision because they had an oil deal and Macaskill duely accepted. I note even the most ardent of SNP supporter must think you angle here is completely jibberish and verging on insane.
185

Lee John,

20/08/2009 09:58:29
"Gordon Brown discussed the case with Col Gaddafi at their first meeting, in the margins of a G8 summit in Italy. Their talks also covered oil prices, with Mr Brown expressing concern that the latest spike could choke off global economic recovery. Downing Street is adamant that the Prime Minister stressed he could not intervene in a judicial decision. But one Whitehall source admitted yesterday: “It was clear this case is very, very important to the Libyans.”

No plot would be complete without an appearance by Lord Mandelson. Although Mr Brown’s talks may have been more significant, the ubiquitous Business Secretary discussed the al-Megrahi case with Col Gaddafi’s son during his recent holiday in Corfu. "

Independent
186

The Strategist,

20/08/2009 09:58:32
If it is about oil then I don't understand why the Americans are complaining. After all, they own most of the contracting and equipment manufacturing companies. We don't.
187

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 20/08/2009 09:59:12
The responsibility of office is a bit trickier than you expected Kenny, is it not? Salmond has stitched you up good and proper.
188

Sedov,

20/08/2009 09:59:16
I happen to think that al-Megrahi should be released but I abhor the anti- US bile that is coming across from what appears to be mainly NATS on these posts.

The US is a massive country with many threads of opinion and feelings. Stereotyping all Americans because some of them happen to have a different view from us contradicts their own claim that by releasing this guy they are compassionate and understanding.

Many of the objections to his release come from the families who have lost a loved one in the Lockerbie bombing. How can we feel how they feel?

It seems that the NATS are passing their vile hatred of the English now on to the Americans. If they are serious about independence then they need all the friends they can get.

Along with decision making comes understanding and empathy and not the type of disgusting bile we have on these posts.
189

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 09:59:33
#177 The prime minister is "accused" of outrageous things every day. What would make news would be if he actually did them!

As #173 points out, you are now promoting a conspiracy theory which requires the SNP government to be complicit in a deal to secure trading rights between the UK government and Libya. The only statement from the UK government on Megrahi that I am aware of has made it clear that the decision is one for the Scottish Government alone.

So what exactly do you think is going on, or are you, as is always more likely, merely throwing mud at the Labour government again?
190

Peter20,

20/08/2009 10:00:17
Well done SNP - a decison which shows they are not going to be influenced by US pressure. A difficult but compassionate decision made for the rights reasons I think.
191

Lee John,

20/08/2009 10:00:32
"Gaddafi recently pressed British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, a Scot, to push the case for Megrahi's compassionate release because of the cancer. Gaddafi, who has been steadily rehabilitated in the West in the past three or four years, since giving up his nuclear weapons programme, may see Megrahi's early release as further reward for his international compliance.

In return, Libya analysts believe Gaddafi might look more favourably on the prospect for British oil business in Libya."

Reuters
192

Edward,

20/08/2009 10:01:40
Can I remind the Unionist/Labour activists/supporters that have short term memory loss. That it all started with Tony Blair meeting Gadaffi and Brown negotiating oil deals as well as the Lord Mandy meeting up with Gadaffi's son recently. The leaks all cam from Labour
Kenny MacAskill has done a good job and stuck to what he is supposed to do and under the remit has released a dying man on COMPASSIONATE grounds. A man by the way is likely NOT to be guilty due to flawed evidence. Evidence by the way that was tampered with by the CIA, in order to get a conviction.
It should be remembered at the time Iraq were best freinds, Iran were miffed at one of their airliners getting shot down by US warship. Libya were likely scapegoats.
193

,

20/08/2009 10:01:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
194

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 10:01:47
#182 I must again reiterate what has this got to do with Brown, Mandelson, Labour anyone else apart for the MacAkill and the SNP. This buck starts and stop with them.

Are you saying MacAskill and the SNP are being told what to do by someone else. Do you not think this is far fetched?
195

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 10:02:19
182 Oh indeed nothing that the Prince of Darkness does it "entirely coincidental" is it. The man gets off and his dealing behind closed doors, the power behind the throne right enough.

Queen's Move.
196

Edward,

20/08/2009 10:03:35
I now think the Scottish Government should open an enquirey in to Lockerbie and to the eveidence that was presented and WHO presented it
197

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 10:05:21
Typical MacAskill... Treat the guilty with kid gloves whilst at the same time hitting the innocent hard.

Its about time that this moron was sacked.
198

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 10:06:10
#193 I really think you talking about bitterness is like the pot calling the kettle black. Self evident in your post.

Do you think statements like 'VOTE SNP AND RID SCOTLAND OF UNIONISM FOR EVER' really encourages even half intelligent people to vote the SNP for you? Really? I think you may have just had a rush of blood to head and now just look silly.
199

Mikey,

Carstairs Junction 20/08/2009 10:06:51
#191, That report is like saying that "Limbaugh, an American, stated that the US should bomb everybody. This was taken as US policy...."

Just because Gordon Brown was born in Scotland does not make him Scottish! If he was born in a barn, would he be a horse?

Also as regards Megrahi's release, doesn't this whole affair show that Scottish justice is based on justice, compassion and christianity, unlike the US justice system which seems to be based on revenge and vengeance.

200

James at Perth,

20/08/2009 10:11:40
# 179 Dougie, I would not say I was "died in the wool," just that I favour the status quo for the time being. I think we both agree about the merits of government of Scotland, by Scotland, for Scotland. And in the pursuit of that objective the more consensus the better. (sorry for the off topic)
201

Labour Party Member,

20/08/2009 10:12:10
Angus og of the Isles
I agree MacAskill did make the correct decision. Robert Black is quoted elsewhere in this paper as saying he could of been less public about visits made to the prison. Maybe a fair point.
Regarding your 172 post. It is questions like these that need investigated. I have heard evidence was withheld from the defence, that the US Justice Department had a presence at the court and influenced decisions about what evidence could be given. I am not at all at ease with this. There was no full discloure of evidence made available to the defence.
202

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 20/08/2009 10:13:09
A decision to release can only confirm speculation about Holyrood?Westminster collusion and conspiracy.
203

Edward,

20/08/2009 10:13:21
I find it hysterically funny that the Unionists are trying there level best to somehow blame the SNP or insinuate that he Scottish Government are wrong.
If Labour were still in power in Holyrood, they would have released Al Megrahi long before now, atthe first instant after Blair had his meeting with Gadaffi!. Brown would have summoned Joke MacConnell and instructed him to do this and proceeded tospin out some tale!
Now that the Scottish Government under the SNP is not beholden to Brown and his lackies and they release on compassionate grounds a man that is nearly dead and is likely not to be guilty, somehow thats a bad day for Scotland.
You know when Labour are spinning a yarn, Ian Grey's lips move!
204

Observer,,

Glasgow 20/08/2009 10:14:19
Brown and Blair did the deal with Gadaffi for the Prisoner Transfer Agreement. Macaskill didn't use that - he is going to release Megrahi on compassionate grounds.

Read Robert Black's view on this it's signposted in the article.

205

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 20/08/2009 10:15:10
203

Edward (Hammer of the Scots?)

Naive.
206

John S,

20/08/2009 10:16:01
Good decision by Kenny MacAskill.
From today's Herald.
Regardless of how players, including Peter Mandelson and Mrs Clinton, have tried to influence the issue (and their own public images), it is not their decision to make.
If Megrahi were to die in prison, it is Scotland that would be placed on the international world stage for all the wrong reasons - as the country where a devout Muslim protesting his innocence had been shown neither mercy nor compassion.
For some, such an ending would make him a martyr. No-one wants to make Scots abroad, working in the oil industry, taking a holiday or fighting on the front lines, to be a specific target for extremism of any kind.
There will be an international outcry about the decision today and no doubt there will be more oil and gas deals for Shell and BP, but it will be a decision made by Scotland on its own terms.
Politically, Mrs Clinton and others have to be seen to be opposed to any such decision. It is not a decision of Scotland's making, but it is Scots who will have to live with the ramifications.
207

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 10:16:30
#203 So the SNP are not beholden to Brown, but do the same thing anyway and that makes them great.
208

paul o,

Wodonga 20/08/2009 10:16:43
# 186, the strategist:
They just want more, if not all of it!

Good-day to you all, and good-night from me.
209

Lee John,

20/08/2009 10:17:04
Arc @ 194

I really haven't a clue Arc. I'm reading various news articles and every one mentions discussions involving Brown, Mandelson & Gaddafi.

It's either compassionate grounds, or prisoner exchange treaty (signed by Britain and Libya last November and formally ratified on 29 April this year), but most sources go for the former. Regarding prisoner exchange treaty, here are a few snippets of what various groups said with my capitals:-

1 "MPs and peers on the joint human rights committee have said they had been denied the chance by the government to scrutinise the treaty properly after ministers rushed through the measure IN A BID TO PROTECT BUSINESS INTERESTS IN LIBYA."

2 Statement by Jack Straw...."Both the foreign secretary and I believe, in the interests of our judicial and wider bilateral relations with Libya, it is important to ratify... a delay beyond April is likely to lead to serious questions on the part of Libya in regards to our willingness to conclude these agreements."

3 Andrew Dismore, the Labour chairman of the committee, said the treaty was rushed through to pave the way for the release of Megrahi.

4 Tory member said "One shouldn't allow whether one has a right to drill for oil in the Gulf of Sidra to have any influence on what is essentially a criminal matter."

All very confusing.
210

Pavla,

Irvine 20/08/2009 10:18:33
For all families directly affected by this decision it must be very difficult.Every day our justice system releases people causing distress and anger to their victims and their families myself being one of them.Despite not being perfect our justice system stands equal with the best of them and certainly is better than the U.S. system.I think most Scots understand the feelings of the American people but thinly veiled threats from the U.S to impose discreet sanctions on Scottish trade and investment are disgraceful.
211

W U Merchant,

20/08/2009 10:18:42
179

Dougie Douglas, I agree with you. Well put.
212

BlackDouglas2,

Madrid but soon Asia 20/08/2009 10:19:16
That this has been turned into yet another test of Scottish competenece on the world stage is just really sad.

Why oh why is Scotland reduced to having to put up with these unionists grating away at our collective sanity?

Whether it be a bridge or a budget or a golf course or a prisoner release everything is distorted by these zombies.

Clearly their behaviour has destroyed the devolution project. The well-being of Scotland can never be served with these wreckers at large. We must move now to independence so that we can all clearly focus on the needs of our people instead of being kiboshed by these destructive distortions erected out of unionist malevolence.
213

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20/08/2009 10:21:07
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214

Lee John,

20/08/2009 10:23:14
Had labour in 2007 got one more seat than the SNP, I wonder what decision Cathy Jamieson would have made.
215

bella r,

EK 20/08/2009 10:23:53
#198

Having merely mentioned the fact yesterday that Scotland was about to lose a powerful (though I admit an often flawed) ally and stating I was now a former SNP voter, the abuse I recieved was staggering, though I would guess that ecosseman, scottish and proud etc that dished out the abuse are probably the same obnoxious individual.

Fair enough for them to accuse me of lying about being a former SNP voter (actually I've only ever voted for them twice in over 2o years) but I would suspect that ecosseman etc could well be fundamentalist muslims who despise everything about the U.S and her allies, probably not though. I suppose that's why a large percentage of 'debate' on forums like this are a waste of time.
216

Wise Man,

glasgow 20/08/2009 10:26:26
Interesting debate i would say.

The chances are he didn't do it - impossible that one man can. The chances are the Iranians did it in revenge for the Americans shooting down of their own plane killing innocent people. T!t for tat - and this is something that we all know exists in all conflicts across the world. It only stops when both sides realise that t!t for tat will continue to kill innocent people. Letting him go, irrespective of our legal systems compassionate release guidlines, puts an end to both atrocities. An appeal hearing would only keep the whole sorry state of both atrocities going and as such would only prevent the victims families from being at peace.
The scottish legal is what we should be debating about - its the early release on compassionate grounds that causes consternation. My views are quite clear - if you murder and take a life, any life, and it is proven conclusively (not in megharis case) then there should be no lenience. Too often in Scotland, people are realeased too early, only to commit more crimes. I have a 2 year old daughter and another baby girl on the way. Being a father has made me appreciate human life, being decent and caring for other people. If anything happened to my daughter that would take her life away i know i would be expecting the purpetrators to suffer the most horrible death. Inflicted by me! How dare a human being take a sweet innocent persons life. In Scotland, people get 10 years for killing and then set free after serving 5. No wonder society is the way it is. It's too easy in this country to inflict pain and death on someone only to get away with being inconvenienced for a few years. Bring back harsher penalities for knife carrying, robbery, afray, assault, rape and manslaughter. When i say harsher i mean long sentences. 10 years for carrying a knife, 10 years for beating an innocent person up. Once people start to get put away then the rest of societies thugs will wake up and think twice. Crime will reduce
217

Lee John,

20/08/2009 10:26:28
Re 214

I wonder if she would have put her training as an Art therapist to the test with this big decision.
218

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20/08/2009 10:26:34
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219

ecosseman,

glasgow 20/08/2009 10:27:07
KEN AND ALEX HAVE SHOWN THE WORLD THATS COTLAND WILL NOT BE BULLIED.

WE WILL BE RESPECTED AND KNOWN AS A CARING NATION BY THE REST OF THE WORLD.

ROLL ON TARTAN DAY USA!

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
220

Wise Man,

20/08/2009 10:29:14
Continued from post 216.

significantly and in the long term prisons will start to empty. Firstly let these people put something back into society. Make prisons that can be places of work -build factories where they build and make goods. The goods can be given to pensionaires and people in society that need help with things like security, lighting, bedlinen and forms of household goods. They could even turn in a profit. But they must work and they must serve their sentences otherwise society will drift back to increased crime rates and the deaths of innocent people. We need to bring respect for others back into our society and stop playing politics with our childrens lives.
221

bella r,

EK 20/08/2009 10:31:20
# Isn't ranting always better in capital letters.
222

BlackDouglas2,

Madrid but soon Asia 20/08/2009 10:34:23
bella r,
It's difficult to trust a post like yours which seems to make little sense when unionist zombies are everywhere trying to cause cyncism and contempt of everything the SNP does. To change your vote on this issue is not believable. From their politicians to their website trolls they denigrate our institutions and our very ability to think of ourselves as a viable nation. These people are thoroughly disreputable political thugs.

I for one don't like the new company you're keeping-
223

The Tin Man,

20/08/2009 10:37:56
#218

"Tony Blair in "doing a deal" with Gadaffi started the ball rolling."

Indeed - pleasing the Libyans is very much in the UK's interest. From the headlines, it appears that McAskill is going to work as Westminster's stooge fall-guy against Washington. However, he is in a lose - lose situation.
224

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20/08/2009 10:40:28
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Dougie Dougla,

20/08/2009 10:44:11
#212 - indeed, they are really quite tiring
226

,

20/08/2009 10:44:18
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The Tin Man,

20/08/2009 10:44:48
However, the guilty party being whisked off in Col. G's personal jet to a hero's welcome is going to look rrreally bad. Alan Johnson must be very relieved that all fingers will be pointing at Kenny.
228

Obanite,

20/08/2009 10:48:03
How many years did he serve for the dodgy "aviator copy" sun glasses he wore in the photo?

Terrorist.
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The Tin Man,

20/08/2009 10:48:17
#226

Strangely, I was agreeing with you. You wouldn't understand that, though.

Personally, I would have kept the guilty man in Scotland. Col. G could have flown his relatives to Scotland in his personal jet, where they would not have received hero's welcomes.
230

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20/08/2009 10:49:09
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20/08/2009 10:51:19
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The Tin Man,

20/08/2009 10:52:18
#230 Alan Johnson is the Home Secretary, who is responsible for such matters. Straw currently has a job for the House of Lords.
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The Tin Man,

20/08/2009 10:55:05
#231

There is no getting away from politics. As soon as politicians who have no responsibility whatsoever for making the decision, open their mouths on the matter, it is politicised. That would be about half the heid-yins at Holyrood and Washington.
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20/08/2009 10:56:46
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Ffion,

20/08/2009 10:57:11
You couldn't have made up this unedifying mess if you'd have tried. I understand this man was a stooge but he should be cleared before being released-but that would make Scottish justice system a laughing stock. This just convinces me that our politicians really are as spineless & gutless as I suspected. Al Magrahi will be home for Ramadan-most of those on the Pan Am flight were looking forward to getting home for Christmas. They never made it. As the first post said-Tartan Day 2010 will be an interesting affair.It's the politicians, not the people.
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arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 11:00:22
#224 - Angus og of The Isles that's ironic you don't like the arc name you liked it in 2007.

I deleted the last post to avoid the embarressment you caused to Scottish people.

#231 It is kind of obvious that you are both'Scottish and still proud' and 'eccoseman'.

Tin Man I agree I will be cringing watching him get a heroes welcome while oor Alex is smirking.
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20/08/2009 11:01:46
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,

20/08/2009 11:04:44
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Boudicca's Henchman,

in the wash 20/08/2009 11:07:02
I am very pleased to see Christian principles being applied for once and the eye for an eye Philistines being sidetracked
240

Yeah1,

20/08/2009 11:31:14
#238

"Just as in the country ,on here we are in the majority."

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm afraid the nationalists are not in the majority in Scotland.

If by 'nationalist' you mean SNP voter then they got 29% at the recent Euro elections, compared to 59% who voted for a unionist party.

If you mean those in favour of independence, then that figure currently stands at about 35-40% - again not in the majority.

Whichever you look at it, nationalists do not make up the majority of those in Scotland.
241

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam 20/08/2009 11:31:35
I wonder what Hillary will have to say now. Nevertheless, behold alert eyes wait until 1 pm. then give a big applause to the judge. We do not have to follow the USA, as we are the sheep in a big bunch or heard.

242

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 11:34:28
Well said Yeah1. I think scottish and still proud has this majority in their head. The case is they have never had a majority.
243

Yeah1,

20/08/2009 11:37:23
#224

"SNP voters are increasing in numbers every day and that is what drives you to your slavering"

Well actually technically no they aren't.

If you compare the two most recent elections the SNP got about 600,000 votes and 32.9% of the vote in the Scottish Election 2007, compared to about 300,000 votes and 29.1% of the vote in the Euro Election 2009.

Now obviously turnout was down considerably for the Euros, but that does not avoid the fact that the SNP's vote percentage and vote numbers both dropped.

Perhaps you could explain how such a drop equates to 'increasing in numbers'?
244

European Scot,

20/08/2009 11:39:08
229 Tin Man

"Personally, I would have kept the guilty man in Scotland"

That might be considered a fair comment by some, if you actually had the 'guilty man' in prison.
There is that tiny problem with the quality of both the evidence, and the main witness.
As another poster has suggested, if there had been a jury, the verdict would more likely have been 'not proven'.
The case against Megrahi was suspect, and I would expect to see in the coming weeks and months, after all the cries for vengeance have died down, some in- depth reports, and documentaries, on the background of this dreadful crime.
As is so often the case, we tend to get nearer the truth years after the event.
245

BlackDouglas2,

Madrid but soon Asia 20/08/2009 11:39:40
'Yeah 1' and 'arc of insolvency' are the same person.

What are you doing with your life? Go and find a girlfriend or get a real job or something.
246

steve52,

Kinfauns 20/08/2009 11:47:51
I happen to think the man is innocent. I happen to know that the Scottish judicial system is corrupt.

Many on here are not seeing the obvious. If the man has advanced prostrate cancer why has he not been given the same kind of treatment that others with this illness receive? He has not had chemo. He has not had radiotherapy. Ask anyone with this illness and they will tell you that even if it has spread with the right kind of treatment life expectancy can be 5 years or more.

Prof. K Sikora has been hired by the Libyan government to make an assessment. Sikora is a medical oncologist and not qualified to give radiotherapy or chemo. I would suggest he is therefore not the best person in the World to make any assessment.

Indeed in the medical profession Sikora is known as rent a quote. If you want someone to back your opinion, he's the man. On top of that he will have been paid and paid well for his 'expert'opinion.

Christine Graham stated the other day that an American lawyer passing an opinion should not be listened to as he was paid by the relatives of the victims.

This whole thing stinks. I am far from being a McAskill fan but he deserves much credit for they way he has been dealing with a difficult matter that has been forced on him by Tony Bliar. This makes the recent comments of Spud Murphy and his Labour stooges here in Scotland utterly contemptuous.

I will take bets that this man will still be alive this time next year.
247

The Tin Man,

20/08/2009 11:51:36
#244 ES

It would make more sense for the Iranians to have planted the bomb. However, whether he did it, or not, hardly comes into it - no doubt there are plenty of innocents in prison and plenty of guilty people on the streets - he has been found guilty in a court of law. Twice.
248

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20/08/2009 11:53:06
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249

Obanite,

20/08/2009 11:58:23
steve52 - plenty of people with terminal cancer forgo treatment if they have only a few months left. It allows them to at least be lucid with their loved ones, rather than panned out their heads on drugs.

That said, I bet he is alive this time next year as well! But, with cancer, as with any terminal illness, it is more or less impossible to say that someone has x months/weeks left with any degree of confidence.
250

,

20/08/2009 12:05:02
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,

20/08/2009 12:05:55
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Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 12:06:39
Why should we care what happens to this man? If he didn't want to be imprisoned he shouldn't have killed 270 people.
253

arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 12:12:51
Angus og of the Isles - You talk about bitterness and bile I think you should re-read your post.

If you really think like that then should maybe keep it to yourself. It is harldly enriching to the cause you proclaim to love that of Scotland and is a sad inditement of the mentality of some SNP supporters.
254

,

20/08/2009 12:13:11
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European Scot,

20/08/2009 12:14:26
240 Yeah 1

" Sorry to disappoint you but I'm afraid the nationalists are not in the majority in Scotland.
If by 'nationalist' you mean SNP voter then they got 29% at the recent Euro elections, compared to 59% who voted for a unionist party."

Perhaps majority should refer not just to 'nationalists', but to those who support Scottish independence overall.
The numbers in each of your 'Unionist' Parties who support an independent Scotland are quite significant, there are many who want to see truly Scottish Labour, Scottish Liberal, and even Scottish Tory Parties.
So don't get too comfortable with translating votes for a 'Unionist' Party as being votes for the Union, that simply isn't so.
As for the actual numbers who support independence, that won't be determined by polls, but by a referendum, and for some strange reason your 'Unionist' Parties are not too keen on having one.
Considering those percentages you are showing above, it's surprising that they are not giving this their full support !
256

,

20/08/2009 12:15:36
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arc of insolvency,

20/08/2009 12:18:45
#257 - Another comment to boost your flagging credibility!
258

,

20/08/2009 12:19:21
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Yeah1,

20/08/2009 12:20:00
#256

"Perhaps majority should refer not just to 'nationalists', but to those who support Scottish independence overall."

Which is currently around 35-40% so again, not a majority of the population.

"So don't get too comfortable with translating votes for a 'Unionist' Party as being votes for the Union, that simply isn't so."

And equally not everyone who votes for the SNP is necessarily a supporter of independence. Many people may have voted SNP because they like some of their policies or dislike labour for example - not because they support independence.
260

Yeah1,

20/08/2009 12:21:55
#249

"SNP's income doubles to £1.8m as the cash flows"

Thats the SNPs income not their voters.

You said the SNP vote was 'increasing in numbers' - I proved this not to be the case.
261

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 12:22:46
As it stands as far as the courts are concerned this man is guilty

too many people are baseing there standpoint on rumour' and nonesense conspiracy theories.
262

Yeah1,

20/08/2009 12:23:48
#251

"SNP is biggest and most popular party in Scotland."

So now that your claim that nationalists make up the 'majority' of those in Scotland has been shot down in flames you have changed your argument to them having the biggest party and largest share of the popular vote.

Well done, you are finally starting to tell the truth - yes the SNP did have the largest share of the popular vote, no the SNP and nationalists do not make up the 'majority' of voters or people in Scotland.
263

Ecce,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 12:24:52
I'm tempted to ask how many of the Americans expressing outrage at the prospect of a dying man being released to spend his remaining days with his family would regard themselves as good Christians. Probably a fair number. I wonder what Jesus Christ's attitude would be? Didn't he say something about "blessed are the merciful...."?
264

Tartan Viking,

20/08/2009 12:25:31
#256. European Scot.

No point banging on about Unionists to Yeah 1. He or she claimed not to be a Unionist is a post a few days ago. Don't know what party this person supports because he / she evaded the question when asked.
265

Yeah1,

20/08/2009 12:26:54
#266

"He or she claimed not to be a Unionist is a post a few days ago. Don't know what party this person supports because he / she evaded the question when asked."

And again I will repeat - no I am not a unionist. I have already answered the question of which party I support many, many times on these forums - if you want to know look back through my posts or ask one of the other posters.
266

Ex SNP Voter,

Buchan 20/08/2009 12:28:12
If Megrahi is released today I will be leaving the SNP party. We are certainly not standing up for Scotland by releasing a convicted mass murderer.
267

Rose13,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 12:30:15
#1 You are right, what kind of message does this send to potential terrorists? They will think Scotland is a soft touch and will become a breeding ground for them.

I think MacAskill's decision is an absolute disgrace, why should Megrahi be afforded the right to die in his own country with his family around him, he ensured that the 270 people aboard Pan Am Flight 103 didn't didn't get that opportunity. He should die in jail and I'm sure if a member of MacAskill's family was among the dead he wouldn't have made such a ludicrous decision.

As for Hilary Clinton I completely agree with her and she has every right to object to Megrahi being realised, after all most of the passengers on that flight were American.

I am just glad that Scotland is still part of the UK because if that is the kind of decision an independent Scottish government would make then the prospect of one is very scary indeed!
268

Simon Bell,

London 20/08/2009 12:32:44
I'm ashamed to be Scottish today. The SNP are completely disgraced in my eyes now.
Show mercy to a terrorist who showed total disregard for the lives of the passengers and those on the ground? Utter idiocy!!
269

Lee John,

20/08/2009 12:33:12
Thistledhu

You still don't get it do you? It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories - and something to do with miscarriage of justice.

I take it you either didn't or couldn't read the independent reports.
270

Lee John,

20/08/2009 12:35:54
268

1 You don't vote SNP
2 You're another reincarnation of a previous idiot.
3 Does it bolster your cause to change monikers?

Any fool can come here and pretend what they're not. I could come on as a labour voter saying I intend to change to SNP if Megrahi is released.
271

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 12:37:11
271 try reading the trial transcripts he was found guilty its that simple
272

Aber-Scot,

20/08/2009 12:37:41
The nutter's have truly taken over the asylum...
We release a mass murderer who has a few weeks left and nothing to live for...Surely this will be seen as a second bite at the cherry for this heid-the-ba. This is an own goal for Salmond and SNP who I've supported for years.....

273

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/08/2009 12:39:48
The anti-SNP posters on here today are remarkably silent about how they would reconcile their views if the same decision had been reached by a unionist Justice Secretary
274

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 12:40:00
221 bella r-isnt ranting better in capital letters"-yes they seem to go together quite naturally. Also whilst on the subject of 219 Ecosseman(to whom i presume you were referring!) an unfortunate typo is "Cotland"-"Cotland will not be bullied!" Who would wish to bully those in cots? :)
275

Lee John,

20/08/2009 12:40:31
"try reading the trial transcripts he was found guilty its that simple"

You are indeed a very simplistic poster. I mentioned this to you yesterday. The trial was a fraud. There are too many questions about some of the "evidence."

And don't pretend that you've actually read the transcript. You wouldn't understand it.
276

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20/08/2009 12:41:12
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Lee John,

20/08/2009 12:41:28
He he he

Look at all the "new" names. Some really weird guys with a personality disorder methinks. Madness.

LOL
278

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 12:43:17
274 Aber*

Liar!
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Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 12:43:57
This man appeals have been turned down he was found guilty in a trial that was under intense scrutiny throughout.
and all his supportes could do is produce reports by authers who will not admit who paid for there services funny that
280

Lee John,

20/08/2009 12:43:59
Any other unionists fancy changing monikers to pretend they've voted SNP and will cease?

I'm happy to stick to this moniker and argue my corner.
You fool no-one.

Off to watch the press conference.
281

European Scot,

20/08/2009 12:46:47
248 Tin Man

" However, whether he did it, or not, hardly comes into it - no doubt there are plenty of innocents in prison and plenty of guilty people on the streets "

Somehow your words above don't quite come across as a reason not to exercise compassion.
You comment "It would make more sense for the Iranians to have planted the bomb" , does seem much more likely.

The guilty verdict was based on questionable evidence, and on the testimony of less than reliable witnesses, one such example here is Abdul Majid Giaka, who is referred to in this piece in 'the Guardian', 28 September 2000

"The Libyan defector who has become the key prosecution witness in the Lockerbie trial is a desperate liar who exaggerated his status as a spy and fabricated key information when a disillusioned CIA threatened to abandon him, a court heard yesterday."

"The Scottish court in the Netherlands heard Mr Giaka had consistently lied to US intelligence officers in order to achieve his dream of beginning a new life in the west."

"According to CIA intelligence documents produced in court, Mr Giaka had claimed to know senior Libyan officials. But when questioned about these men by Mr Keen, Mr Giaka admitted he had never met many of them and had only a passing knowledge of others."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/sep/28/lockerbie.gerardseenan
282

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 12:47:20
yes me too
with that im off to see a politicion undermine the rule of Law in this country
283

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 12:49:45
256 European Scot-greetings ES! Hope you are well. Things are ticking along down here in the land of the W*ite Mans Burden!

Your comment re the"Unionist" parties is true but there are almost certainly some in the SNP who do not support Independence,seeing the SNP as the right party for Scotland but not wanting to break up the Union-Labour protest votes etc.. I agree -the sooner a Referendum the better. It might not resolve the issue for ever but at least put it to bed for some time thus enabling us to discuss the important stuff-Englands chances in the Ashes,Scotlands diminished world cup hopes etc!!
284

Jingo,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 12:56:53
America shoots an Iranian plane carrying 290 pilgrims to Mecca out of the sky. Another one of those “accidents” that America does so well. In retaliation Iran says it will shoot down 10 American planes.
America knew that flight 103 was going to be blown up. Why else did notices appear in American Embassies warning staff not to travel home for Christmas on a Pan Am plane? Why else were American military staff pulled from flight 103 at short notice?
America was prepared to sacrifice innocent and expendable lives to appease Iran.
Why did Britain refuse to have a public inquiry? Because America told them it didn’t want one. Why? Because it didn’t want the truth to come out.
Megrahi was just a scapegoat. Someone had to be seen to pay and he was the one. An American friend says that the American Judiciary is so corrupt that there are many innocent people in prison for crimes they didn’t commit. He says that Americans don’t care if the right person is serving the sentence just as long as someone is even if that person is completely innocent. That was proved just yesterday as group of American tourists were talking about Megrahi to a tourist guide friend of mine. Everyone of them said that it didn’t matter if he was innocent or not, he was paying the price and that was all that matters.
America things that the whole world should do as it wants. I’m glad the Scottish Government had not given in to them.
285

European Scot,

20/08/2009 12:57:22
266 Tartan Viking

"No point banging on about Unionists to Yeah 1. He or she claimed not to be a Unionist is a post a few days ago."

If that is the case, there certainly seem to be a surprisingly high number of attacks on Salmond and the SNP, coming from this quarter.
Quite a contrast to the far more defensive, one might almost think, supportive stance, taken over Unionist issues.

Of course we could both be wrong !
286

Lianachan,

Highlands 20/08/2009 12:58:33
Who is in jail for the destruction of Iran Air Flight 655, with the murder of 290 civilians? Nobody, that's who.
287

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 20/08/2009 12:59:46
All those who now find it easy to have pot-shots at MacAskill and the SNP should remember that this crisis in the Scottish Legal scheme is NOT of this Government's making. They have been left with the job of clearing up the mess constructed deliberatley by Bush and Blair(give me a kiss Gaddafi and all is forgiven).Both the American and British security forces are up to their nostrils in this stench. Of course Megrahi didn't do this evil deed. Otherwise ALL the available evidence would have been given to his defence team. But they were not. "National Security" my backside.My reckoning is that it was a revenge by Iran over the "ACCIDENT" by the US Navy shooting down an Iranian civil airliner. Remember? The sole interest of the US and UK in this sordid affair is the opportunity to milk the oil and gas resources of Libya. Does Iraq resonate in your brains? Bush, Blair, Mandelson, Brown, and the Clintons all wanted Megrahi's appeal to be given up otherwise the truth might just be uncovered. Truth is a word none of the aforementioned have in their lexicon.
288

Tartan Viking,

20/08/2009 13:04:44
#287. Yes - attacks SNP and Salmond constantly, yet is not a supporter of Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems or the UK Independence Party (all Unionist parties)?

What does that leave? The Green Party (are they Unionists?), The Monster Raving Loonies (are they still around?), or... maybe, the BNP?
289

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 20/08/2009 13:08:07
#288 Lianachan Like me, you are onto the real reason.This shocking event has been neatly packaged and totally forgotten ... by some. The British Government, like that of the US, is rotten to its core. How can it be otherwise with New Labour and the Prince of Darkness in control? The poor souls in England have one awful dilemma! If New Labour are thrown out at the next election, who do they vote for? The "march of the Cameron men" or the LibDems? Chaos multiplied by three! Slainte!
290

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 13:11:20
290 Tartan Viking- Good Day squire.The Scottish Greens support Independence
291

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 13:12:24
Or,what about the SSP?
292

Tartan Viking,

20/08/2009 13:13:50
#292. Geoff - And a good day to you Sir.

Well......I think you may be on to something here.

Is Yeah 1 a green one?

293

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 13:15:01
291 Il penseroso-"The Camerons are Coming,Hurrah,Hurrah!"

Of that yoy can be sure!
Another Scots Prime minister!
294

Daillyman,

20/08/2009 13:15:08
"Compassionate grounds" is the term used to free a mass murderer.

Where is the compassion for the 270 victims and the families.

This is not about politics as so many have turned it into, it is about justice and punishment for mass murder.

295

Tartan Viking,

20/08/2009 13:15:47
#293. Geoff.......drat! I forgot about them. Are they still around? Not a green party but possibly an Orange party - at least when Tommy was in charge!
296

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 13:16:09
Having heard the press conference my opinion of Kenny MacAskill has gone down considerably. He took the opportunity of the world's press interest to engage in unedifying, juvenile political attacks on the UK government. How embarrassing for Scotland. Honestly, I had thought MacAskill one of the best of the SNP government, but he appears to have descended into the gutter of political attacks inhabited by Salmond.

I agree with his decision to release Megrahi on compassionate grounds, but I am disgusted by his politicising of the arguments over transfer.
297

Observer,,

Glasgow 20/08/2009 13:22:16
298 Personally Duncan I am going to take some time to digest what Macaskill said before leaping to any conclusions.

But Megrahis is to be released on compassionate grounds and that was the right decision.
298

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 13:22:39
297 Tartan viking-they are certainly keeping a low profile since Tommys demise! Actually there are many in the SSP who regard the SNP as capitalist monarchist roadsters(its all relative)!! :)
299

Simon Bell,

London 20/08/2009 13:23:00
What a coward MacAskill is, hiding behind every excuse for his disgraceful decision. A total prat!
300

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 13:24:18
I Disagree with what Kenny Macaskill has done but he has impressed me in the manner he laid out his reasons and made clear that Megrahi is guilty by Scots Law.
301

Yeah1,

20/08/2009 13:27:35
#278 Scottish and Proud

"You copy my post which says the most POPULAR PARTY.
Then later on you accuse me of saying the majority in Scotland are SNP voters."

In your post #238 you stated:

"However I as a Nationalist do not need any other monikers. Just as in the country ,on here we are in the majority."

Now to anyone with a brain this appears to be you claiming that in the country (i.e. Scotland) the nationalists make up the majority - which quite clearly they do not.

You can backtrack all you want by pretending that you meant they are the most popular party, but the evidence is clear for anyone to see - you said that in Scotland the nationalists are 'in the majority' - which is obviously untrue.
302

Joanna,

Cambs, England 20/08/2009 13:28:27
When MacAskill made the comments about transfer he reminded me of Pilate washing his hands of the execution of Jesus; he appeared to be passing the responsibility and blame elsewhere.

However, before those comments and after I thought Kenny MacAskill spoke well and I agreed with his decision to liberate Megrahi on compassionate grounds. A very tough decision to have to make and I believe that his sympathy for all the victims of this terrible tragedy were heartfelt.
303

Tartan Viking,

20/08/2009 13:29:41
#310 Siomon Bell.

If you think MacAskill is a coward what do you think of the people who shot down Iran Air Flight 655, with the murder of 290 civilians?
304

Old Rose,

U. S. 20/08/2009 13:32:08
I just wonder, how much compassion did this individual show to those aboard the plane, when he set the bomb? He deserves to be put down, but then there is no death penalty in Great Britain. McKaskill is allowing a mass murderer to walk on "compassionate grounds." Pathetic.
305

James at Perth,

20/08/2009 13:34:01
There is no doubt MacAskill has handled this very well and steered a couse through the various interest groups.
306

The Strategist,

20/08/2009 13:36:20
#298

Have to say I find your comments somewhat bizarre. If the Westminster Govt failed to provide information requested and as it seems now, there is some doubt over the promises made to the US families about keeping Megrahi in Scotland then, I think he was right to say so.

In contrast to your opinion I have to say my view of MacAskill has improved dramatically. This is a man of strength.
307

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 13:41:36
306 i doubt he actualy physicly placed the bomb in the baggage but he undoubtley played a major role.

I disagree with him being released. However Kenny macaskill did lay out his reasons well and i do think that is the genuine reason why the desision has been taken unwise though it is.
308

Britain united,

20/08/2009 13:43:08
It's amazing what the promise of a little oil will do! This guy showed no remorse so why should we.
309

European Scot,

20/08/2009 13:44:45
285 Geoff

How you doing Geoff !
Just been watching the press conference, which he handled well.
Rushing off to late lunch.
The Ashes ? Cricket ?

Oh dear !

Maybe later.
310

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 13:45:28
304 Joanna Cambs-Hi Joanna!
Yes a difficult one. On the one hand if the incarcerated individual is in his last days then the kind of society to which we SHOULD aspire calls for common sense compassion-we should try to be somehow 'better'-the other cheek! On t'other hand if Justice is in effect institutionalised revenge-for societies and the individual victims,then 'an eye for an eye'!
I can picture you being punted along under that old postcard bridge in Cambs with a picnic basket-do you guys do that or is that akin to you seeing us shooting Lions in our backyard!!
311

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 13:46:29
#308 First of all, since he was not allowing the transfer, there was no need whatsoever to say anything about promises which might or might not have been made, or information which might or might not have been withheld - it was utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Second, there is no evidence at all that any information was withheld, which makes it even more ridiculous that he should engage in juvenile mud-slinging during a high-profile, important announcement of this type.

I say again, I had previously a very high opinion of MacAskill, but he has lost my confidence completely by indulging in political attacks in this press conference.
312

Geoff,

sa 20/08/2009 13:46:54
311 European scot-cheers ES!
313

Britain united,

20/08/2009 13:47:37
Scotland has betrayed the 270 who lost their lives,if the UK government has any say on this haul him back and stick him in Dartmoor.
314

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 13:49:28
315 the UK goverment dosent have any say and besides that we also now know opted out when invited for input
315

Lee John,

20/08/2009 13:50:19
Anybody keeping tally of the "new" posters?
316

Britain united,

20/08/2009 13:52:23
for anyone who thinks he was released on compassionate grounds think again. IT'S THE OIL.
317

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 13:53:17
Lee John, Macaskill who cleary has access to more information than we do and is a lawyer by trade has no doubt that Megrahi is guilty.
318

Lee John,

20/08/2009 13:53:24
302 Thistledhu

Agreed there. McAskill homed in simply on compassionate grounds and here we were going on about miscarriage of justice.

(btw the 2007 review of the case said it may have been a miscarriage of justice. I suppose that will be for another day.)
319

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 13:53:49
318 Eh/ what planet are you on.
320

Lee John,

20/08/2009 13:54:56
319

I caught that Thistledhu. Then again see my bracket above.

I'll leave for now. I'm a bit bored reading the "new" posters' take on this.
321

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 13:56:21
313 No Duncan he laid out the grounds for his refusal on the prisoner transfer as this was raised as part of the release.

Maybe you didn't hear him he said that when the UK government wask asked for input none was forthcoming, also you are aware that David Miliband imposed a public immunity certificate to block release of information.

All he did was to lay out the dirty washing that the UK government had hidden away oh what a wee shame, honesty is a virtue.
322

Joanna,

Cambs, England 20/08/2009 13:58:03
Geoff SA @ 312
"I can picture you being punted along under that old postcard bridge in Cambs with a picnic basket-do you guys do that or is that akin to you seeing us shooting Lions in our backyard!!"

lol Geoff ... of course I do that every day, how else would one get about one's business? :)) Leave those lions alone tho' and definitly don't shoot leopards, they're my favourites.

Yes, a very difficult decision for anyone to have to make, I bet MacAskill hasn't had much sleep for a while and he will probably always wonder if he did the right thing. I feel for his wife, as well, if he's married - I bet he's been in a right grump lately.

323

Thistledhu,

20/08/2009 13:58:31
319 I do not agree with his desision but i do believe he made it for the right reasons.

Disagreeing as i do i think he laid out his reasons well gave a strong impressive display and made a Brave move.
324

Britain united,

20/08/2009 14:00:31
316. The UK may be sh't at giving a response ,but the USA will not be. I SINCERELY HOPE WHEN MACASKILL IS ON HIS DEATH BED AND THE GOOD LORD COMES TO JUDGE HIM HE WILL SAY, YOU RELEASED A MAN THAT KILLED 270 INNOCENT MEN,WOMEN AND CHILDREN,YOU CAN GO TO HELL.
325

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 14:06:30
#323 He laid out the grounds for his refusal of the request for transfer, none of which had anything to do with the UK government, nor their alleged withholding of information, for which, I repeat, there is no evidence.

It was quite proper for him to note that the UK government, quite correctly, did not interfere in the process. What I found improper were his juvenile veiled attacks insinuating that the UK government had acted improperly. They were neither relevant to his case for refusal, nor worthy of a Scottish justice minister.
326

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 14:17:50
327 Oh yes it did, as in who agreed to the prisoner transfer?

Was it not a man called Blair in a tent.

The scottish government had asked for any prisoner involved in Lockerbie to be excluded, that was rejected.

As for refusal of information I heard Kenny say he asked for input from all parties, he said he received none from the UK government.

As I said the UK government has refused to release information about this case during the appeal and have installed a Public interest immunity certificate.

It appears that the US thought they had an agreement with the UK government, not so then.
327

Nellie,

Liverpool 20/08/2009 14:20:29
Brave decision, not a show of weakness at all.

265 Ecce - Well said! Besides, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones - in comparison with Pan Am Flight 103, many many thousands more innocent civilians have died as a consequence of "collateral damage" in Iraq and Afghanistan! There is no difference save for the numbers killed.
328

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 14:23:28
327 Also Duncan yes it was his decision, but imagine what would have been said if Kenny had not asked for imput from those involved.

It wasn't juvenile he laid out the reasons why he refused the prisoner transfer and granted the compassionate release, would it not be improper if he didn't?
329

georgia, chloe's mommy,

somewhere outside chicago 20/08/2009 14:29:16
I just saw the picture of this man who is supposed to be dying of cancer - perhaps his double chin is from the chemo??? To look at him, he is not that sick...I think it's a sham. Where is the wasted look of the dying man?
330

IronRebel,

Columbia, SC 20/08/2009 14:30:46
Letting this duly convicted mass murder die anywhere but prison is appalling to my since of justice. However, Scotland was entrusted with his trial and imprisonment and I respect that this is a decision that is rightfully Mr. McKaskill's to take. I am not happy about this but my heart will always sing "Scotland Forever!"
331

Linda,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 14:41:14
Duncan the UK government are up to their necks in this saga. Particularly with regard to the Prisoner Transfer deal as there was only one Libyan in any UK prison.

Just watched a very statesmanlike performance by MacAskill. He made me proud to be Scottish in the way he handled this difficult decision and stood up to American pressure. Something Blair and Brown have never done.

And such a contrast compared to the juvenile utterances of the Labour alternative Richard Baker.
332

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 14:41:25
326 united*

Might congratulate him for showing compassion to a dying man?

Think God's wrath will be reserved for Blair and Bush really!
333

James at Perth,

20/08/2009 14:42:15
In Northern Ireland, prisoners were released, victims and families had to bear it, enemies embraced and peace was won. If the release of al-Magrahi helps build bridges with Libia and from there to the turbulent Islamic World, if Scottish compassion shows the way and other follow suit, then this has been a worthwhile day.
334

forestry,

20/08/2009 14:44:47
#331 What do you want ? Should he only be released on compassion when you can see the pain and suffering on an emacicated body. God help you.
335

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 14:45:27
#333 You'll excuse me for not placing too much importance on your posting, given that you qualify as probably the most slavishly, unquestioningly sycophantic SNP supporter on this site.
336

Britain united,

20/08/2009 14:46:04
334. Think gods wrath will rain down on MACASKILL,WHAT MUST THE FAMILIES AND FRIENDS OF THE 270 WHO WERE SLAUGHTERED BY THIS MAN BE GOING THROUGH TODAY.
337

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 14:46:33
333 agree 100%, I have a lot of American friends. They do not understand our justice system.

I am not alone in being disturbed that the original trial was not held under the normal rule of Scots law, i.e. a jury.

The evidence was also not of the type that would have tolerated in other trial under scots law.

i.e. disclosure.
338

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 14:51:16
It also becomes clear why Kenny MacAskill visited Megrahi in jail.
339

Jingo,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 14:53:48
331, Just where did you see this picture because there has been none shown in the media in Britain.
340

,

20/08/2009 14:56:45
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341

Britain united,

20/08/2009 14:57:30
It's rather sickening that people can post on this site, with little or no regard for the family and friends of the Lockerbie disaster. Megrahi showed no remorse whatsoever,and yet [thanks to devolution] this butcher has been set free. I pray that he suffers as much pain as his victims did, if not more
342

,

20/08/2009 15:00:43
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343

,

20/08/2009 15:03:56
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344

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 15:06:55
#342 "For MacAskill not to mention that fact would have been dereliction of duty on behalf of The Scottish Government and our people. Westminster needs to understand that Scotland does not roll over any more, and will not dance to their tune."

You prove my point precisely. I can accept that it is the tiresome and idiotic policy of the SNP to pick fights with Westminster at every possible opportunity. My sole point was that until today I had a higher opinion of Kenny MacAskill than to think he would indulge in this unedifying pastime whilst dealing with such a major, serious and complex issue. I was wrong - he is no better than Salmond, Swinney, Sturgeon and the rest. It's a shame.

For the record, there may be grounds to criticise the UK government in their dealings with Libya; but that press conference was monumentally the wrong time and place to pick such a fight.
345

,

20/08/2009 15:11:56
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346

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 15:14:53
346 Or he was publicly saying this is Scotland and Scots law and it should be up to the Scots Parliament and Government to decide prisoner transfer.

The UK named and shamed in public making out to Americans that he would always serve his sentance in the UK, whilst making deals in the desert tisk tisk!
347

Outraged in the USA,

Detroit, Michigan 20/08/2009 15:15:34
So what do you have to do in Scotland to get life in prison? Killing 270 people obviously hasn't met the criteria!

Thanks Scotland. Nice to see who your friends are. Yes, this guy was just one of a larger group that is still walking around, but it was all we had. Compassion my ass! Unbelievable, from a country that touts brave heroes such as William Wallace and then hide behind this spineless, so called legal decision.

What a slap in the face of all those families that are still walking around today grieving for their loved ones. Do us a favor, and stay the hell away from the U.S. for a while; we'll return the favor and won't bother with visiting Scotland anytime soon.
348

Wynn,

GLASGOW 20/08/2009 15:17:03
343, Why show remorse if he is innocent?

And when Jim Swire and friends get the enquiry they seek ..and Megrahi is found innocent...what then?
349

ashamed in the US,

Chicago IL 20/08/2009 15:18:46
I have always been proud to have been born in Scotland until this day. To let this murderer go for the reasons they have stated is bull. He killed 270 people who he never showed any compassion for including 11 Scots on the ground. I am ashamed to be of my country and will never again tell anyone that I was born in Scotland. You have shamed all of us for OIL
350

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 15:21:49
#349 He got life in prison; he has served his sentence. It is a feature of Scottish (and British) justice that the terminally ill are shown compassion even when they are imprisoned for life. As Ian Galloway (CoS minister) said today:

"Justice is not lost in acting in mercy. Instead our deepest humanity is expressed for the better. To choose mercy is the tough choice and today our nation met that challenge."
351

,

20/08/2009 15:22:01
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352

,

20/08/2009 15:24:37
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353

,

20/08/2009 15:27:22
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354

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 15:27:27
#353 I don't think he did "what any good minister would do". I think he decided that scoring political points was more important than delivering clear justice. He had the opportunity to be a statesman, and he screwed it up.

I've been clear that I dislike the SNP's divisive strategies, but I can accept that they have made that choice - and yes, the UK government have chosen their divisive strategies at times too.

My point is that today was not a day for picking pathetic parochial fights, and Kenny let himself down when he did so.
355

The Strategist,

20/08/2009 15:29:29
#351

About a month ago the American company ExxonMobil started drilling an exploration well in Libyan waters.

If you seriously feel so badly about this then please lobby the US Govt to force ExxonMobil and all other US companies operating in Libya to pull out.



356

Joanna,

Cambs, England 20/08/2009 15:30:09
"The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes."

William Shakespeare - The Merchant of Venice
1600
357

The Strategist,

20/08/2009 15:33:01
#356

What pathetic parochial fight are you talking about? Kenny MacAskill simply stated some of the facts that affected his decision.... No more, no less.

I recommend a dram and a lie down.
358

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 20/08/2009 15:33:24
349, 351 May I respectful remind you both that Scots law is wholly independent of English law.

The decision for release was based on guidance within the Scottish legal and prison guidelines.

Blair did the deal in the desert not Alex Salmond.

Also you are both aware that there was serious questions over the conviction, so much so that the scottish criminal cases review commission judged that he was entitled to appeal his conviction?
359

,

20/08/2009 15:43:48
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360

,

20/08/2009 15:46:21
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361

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 15:54:53
#362 You really are unable to comprehend what I'm saying aren't you.

I agree with the decision made today. I hoped only that that decision would be made, and I am therefore quite content. My criticism is of the unnecessary picking of fights, which was inappropriate and demeaning to Scotland. And the only reason I am disappointed by that is that I had genuinely held MacAskill in high esteem up until now, because he did not engage in such nonsense but got on with his job.
362

Tartan Viking,

20/08/2009 15:55:51
#351. ashamed in the US

"I am ashamed to be of my country and will never again tell anyone that I was born in Scotland."

Did you show any shame when 290 innocent Iranian civilians on Iran Air Flight 655 were shot down and murdered - the event many feel triggered the PanAm 103 attrocity?
363

Joanna,

Cambs, England 20/08/2009 16:01:07
Newsflash @ 363

Thank you - its one of my favourites of Burns and is also appropriate to this situation. I have the last 4 lines

"For a' that an' a' that
It's coming yet for a' that
That man to man, the world o'er
Shall brithers be for a' that"

on display in my kitchen as a little reminder not only of Burns poetry but also of something we should all aspire to.

364

Britain united,

20/08/2009 16:27:48
351.There is no excuse for what the Scottish Executive did this day,compassion should only be granted to those who show compassion themselves, Megrahi never once showed any compassion to his 270 victims.
365

Britain united,

20/08/2009 16:29:03
365 Prove it!
366

Britain united,

20/08/2009 16:30:06
366. Are you a scot in England?
367

Linda,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 16:34:25
364 Duncan, MacAskill only criticised the UK government and Jack Straw for their Prisoner Tranfer Agreement under terms of which he was obligated to visit Megrahi in Greenock Prison only to be abused by the unionist pygmies at Holyrood and the unctuous Jim Murphy.

Do the UK government agree or disagree with Cameron's opposition to compassion which is expected from Tories.
368

The Strategist,

20/08/2009 16:40:27
#349 Outraged in the USA

How dare you criticise us when dozens of Scots died supporting your militart in Iraq and Afghanistan, when your Navy shot a civilian Iranian airline out of the sky because they thought it was attacking them and hundreds of our people were killed in the N Sea by the greed and incompetence of one of your oil companies when Piper Alpha blew up.

Go and examine your own conscience!
369

Florence,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 16:57:41
STOP PRESS! Ian Gray has said that he disagrees with MacAskill's decision! Now there's a surprise and it would have been an appropriate comment from Gray had the opposite decision been taken.
370

Joanna,

Cambs, England 20/08/2009 16:58:35
369
"366. Are you a scot in England?"

Why? Is that against the law now? Its none of your business really, but suffice to say I am an Englishwoman in England who has studied Burns, Shakespeare and many other literary greats.

I also think that MacAskill made the right decision today. You don't have to be Scottish to see that!
371

The Bish,

Glasgow 20/08/2009 17:07:45
A shameful decision.

Scotland will be the laughing stock of the world.
372

georgia, chloe's mommy,

somewhere outside chicago 20/08/2009 17:08:48
OMG - I have come off as some kind of meanie because the photo I have in my Scotsman email shows a healthy-looking man in stylish sunglasses, all ready to head home to Libya...if he looks healthy to me, excuse me because I have had the sad occasion of seeing people who are dying from cancer, and they really don't look that fit!!! Excuse me for that!!! That is a really big crime, don't you think??? I guess I don't figure that a person who has only hours to live would be walking upright, wearing sunglasses...even caring if the sun gets in his eyes, because he would be in so much pain it wouldn't matter....THIS is the kind of person I have seen with terminal cancer, but maybe I am wrong....I thought I was (and we all were) free to make our own observations....
373

Florence,

Edinburgh 20/08/2009 17:09:11
331 GEORGIA : Your assertion is a slur on the eminent medical consultants who have treated Megrahi and advised the Scottish Justice Secretary. Disgraceful.
374

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 20/08/2009 17:10:18
376 Bish*

Unionists must be on the verge of bringing down hotmail with all the new sign ups today.

375

Albina,

Harrogate 20/08/2009 17:12:43
They should have given him a social worker, they kill everything they touch, including innocent children.

Albina
376

georgia, chloe's mommy,

somewhere outside chicago 20/08/2009 17:13:02
A friend of mine from Newcastle, Simon, actually knew someone who was victimized by the Lockerbie tragedy - a teacher, I believe - so please do not sermonize to me how I should observe the man who may have done it....When I last saw Simon a couple of years ago, he was still horrified and sickened by the tragedy, and so none of your pompous postulations about "emacicated" (sic) appearances of the chief suspect mean a hill of beans!!!
377

georgia, chloe's mommy,

somewhere outside chicago 20/08/2009 17:15:30
#378
Are you being ironic, sarcastic, or what?

Doctors have pockets too, you know....
378

,

20/08/2009 17:22:22
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379

Britain united,

20/08/2009 17:25:21
375. Good for you. Do you support a united Britain,or are you a spiv?
380

Britain united,

20/08/2009 17:29:08
377. My thoughts exactly. MAY i APOLOGIZE ON BEHALF OF ENGLAND.
381

Jimmy Le Pie,

20/08/2009 17:29:55
#383 Scottish and Still Proud,

Excellent post. Well said.

And well done Kenny & co
382

ExpatBackinScotland,

Carnoustie 20/08/2009 17:33:16
First off there are concerns that his conviction isnt safe and just as many that the US/UK made him a scapegoat for the whole thing.

Secondly, why were so many US officials due to travel on that plane WARNED about travelling?

There could be more blood on the hands of the uk/us govt over this than Abdel Basset!

The guy cant LIVE long enough to see an appeal and there are plenty of VICTIMS FAMILIES who believe he didnt do it.

Its better to let a dying man go home and show compassion. Why? If he was guilty, he got a death sentence, if he wasnt or is proven not to be in years to come, an innocent man got to say goodbye.

Either way it makes us look like a nation with compassion and values.

Not to bash the US, but Gary McKinnon if he gets sent there, faces 60 Years in a supermax jail, so if you call that "justice", no wonder you find this decision confusing.
383

Britain united,

20/08/2009 17:36:03
387. NO. It makes us look like a soft touch,.
384

Nellie,

Liverpool 20/08/2009 17:37:57
#372 - The Strategist - Well said!

The double standards we witness today is breath taking. It seems no one is allowed to kill innocent civilians except the US military and their allies ...
385

,

20/08/2009 17:38:34
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386

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 17:39:54
#383 You show yourself up for the liar you are.

"a few weeks back when the London Labour mob were trying to hang Kenny out to dry for the prisoner absconds "Duncan frae Edinburgh was on here screaming for Kenny's head ."

I've barely been on this site for the past few weeks, having been on holiday; and I certainly never commented on the absconding prisoner story.

If you're going to accuse others of lying, it's better not to do so alongside an enormous lie of your own.
387

awantapassport,

sunnysoothcoast 20/08/2009 17:39:58
388 - You are either a moron or a troll, perhaps both.

Kenny MacAskill had a hard decision and chose the right path. He has done Scotland a great service in showing the world we are a people of compassion.
388

AbandonAllHope,

20/08/2009 17:41:17
I'm proud to be Scottish, our compassion in our legal system is what separates us from the terrorists and barbarians, well done Kenny (never thought i would say that) a proud and difficult decision, but the right one.
389

jane shore,

london & NHS Worker 20/08/2009 17:41:46

Dont apologise on behalf of me 385. Georgias comments are offensive & naive.

It has never been stated that Meghari has just hours to live. Months seem to be a more accurate prognosis. Georgia the course of terminal cancer is very hard to predict, steroids will often blow up patients features unnaturally. Your last post @ 382 is particularly offensive.

I am sorry but you dont seem to have read anything from Dr Jim Swire a British GP (which would mean he has full Medical qualifications). Google him, read & understand British compassion.


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20/08/2009 17:45:07
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Blood Thirsty American,

Grand Rapids, MI 20/08/2009 17:46:18
Congratulations, upon your bold and independent stance against the relentless tyranny and oppression of my country. Your countrymen have shown a great deal of gumption and freewill, because I know how terrifying the words of Hillary Clinton can be! Just ask Bill. I also want to commend you for all of your bravery and for not making this into a minute and trivial matter such as justice. After all, what do the lives of Scottish and American victims have to do with this. Everyone knows America is the real enemy. Well at any rate, you have exacted complete and utter "revenge" upon all 280 million Americans who all think exactly the same. Well, I am off to an unjust mob lynching in the town square this afternoon, and then I plan on eating four big macs to stuff my face.
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Peeablo,

All over the place 20/08/2009 17:46:41
My 2 cents worth...

I say this without any politics.

He is dying, he is going to die very soon, let him go home to die.

We are compassionate here in Scotland, we must show compassion, even if our enemies are not.
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Joanna,

Cambs, England 20/08/2009 17:53:45
"394 jane shore,london & NHS Worker 20/08/2009 17:41:46

Dont apologise on behalf of me 385. Georgias comments are offensive & naive"

Agreed. The apology made on behalf of England by 385 does not include me either.

Blood Thirsty American @ 396

There were people from 21 countries on Pan Am 103 and 52 of them were from the UK, 180 were from the USA. Per head of capita the UK therefore lost more people in the tragedy. Scotland and the rest of the UK can show compassion why can America not do the same? After all, there have been many incidents in recent history of American aggression against innocent civilians, did the families of those dead not also grieve for their loved ones? Or is it only American lives that have value?
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20/08/2009 17:56:06
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Huntly loon,

Aberdeenhsire 20/08/2009 17:56:57
I saw MacAskill's speech and found it generally balanced and his arguments well thought through. It was a difficult decision to have to make but he stuck to the basic principles of Scots Law and the guidelines applicable to all prisoners.

Let those who take an opposing view state what they would have done. Kept him in prison with minimal medical attention. Have him in a hospice until he died, taking a bed and treatment from one of our own citizens. What security would have been required in such circumstances. And when he did die, he would have been treated as a victim of the west, another muslim martyr.

Megahi got his life sentence give or take three months. If he planted the bomb he has now three months left to reflect on what he did and how Scottish justice dealt with him mercifully. If he did not do it he has a short time left to be with his family.

Either way, Scotland should be proud of the decision MacAskill took. It was based on the application of the law and on the basic principles that defines Scottish morality that makes us respected abroad. We dont need lessons in justice from the United States. Their punishments are based on retribution and revenge. Ours are based on the finest ideals of justice, and where appropriate, mercy. The Justice Secretary took a difficult decision, definitely not the easy populist decision, but certainly the right decision.

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dalriadan,

glasgow 20/08/2009 17:58:12
It's not often i use the word "proud" But today it applies. The Scottish government have shown wisdom and courage.
It's obscene to hear the sentiments from people like Hillary Clinton. A woman who didn't oppose the war in Iraq, who was easily seduced by the medical establishment in the USA. Thus depriving many millions decent health provision.
Let's not forget who should really be brought to account for crimes against humanity.
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Nellie,

Liverpool 20/08/2009 18:00:33
The BBC said this was the worst terrorist attack in British history? Uh? Just because the perpetrators wore uniforms and represented a nation's government, doesn't make the bombing of civilians during WW2 anything else but a terrorist attack. They bombed us as we bombed them, with intention of terrorising each others civilian populations, and we all deliberately killed a hell of a lot more than died on Flight 103. What short memories, what a poor grasp of history, these people have.
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Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/08/2009 18:05:47
#395 I see, so your argument is that someone with a completely different name from me posted, but because of your paranoia you think that they were me, and so you consider yourself justified in calling me a liar.

You are a remarkable example of a complete idiot.
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20/08/2009 18:09:50
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Sean Allen Smith,

Austin, TX 20/08/2009 18:14:41
1.5 weeks per murder victim for a guy who has never taken responsibility for his crime. And this makes the Scottish people proud of Scottish justice? Alright, so you lefties hate the United States. Good for you. Enjoy this moment. That you seek to express this hate in this manner is repulsive.
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20/08/2009 18:19:13
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Joanna,

Cambs, England 20/08/2009 18:23:03
"405 Sean Allen Smith,Austin, TX 20/08/2009 18:14:41
1.5 weeks per murder victim for a guy who has never taken responsibility for his crime. And this makes the Scottish people proud of Scottish justice? Alright, so you lefties hate the United States. Good for you. Enjoy this moment. That you seek to express this hate in this manner is repulsive"

Why do you see this man's release on compassionate grounds as an attack against the USA? There were 180 US citizens killed when Pam Am 103 crashed and 52 from the UK. Per head of capita the UK suffered a greater loss. In fact the victimes were from 21 different countries. This was not just an American tragedy and so the release of this prisoner on compassionate grounds is not an attack on America.

Do you ever spare a thought for the innocent victims of American aggression in recent years? Or is it, in your opinion, only American lives that have worth?
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Sean Allen Smith,

Austin, TC 20/08/2009 18:24:12
406:

Yeah, I'm one of those rednecks who supports gay marriage, abortion, socialized medicine, legalization of drugs, gun control and who voted for Obama. I also happen to believe that 1 and half weeks for a murder is insufficient on any grounds. Your left is different from our left. You're a hateful imbecile.
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The Strategist,

20/08/2009 18:25:30
#405 Sean Allen Smith.

Good grief... You must have had a terrible upbringing to think like you do. You poor soul - If you seriously think that Scotland released Megrahi as some form of political act against the USA then you need therapy..
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Sean Allen Smith,

20/08/2009 18:26:23
"Why do you see this man's release on compassionate grounds as an attack against the USA? There were 180 US citizens killed when Pam Am 103 crashed and 52 from the UK. Per head of capita the UK suffered a greater loss. In fact the victimes were from 21 different countries. This was not just an American tragedy and so the release of this prisoner on compassionate grounds is not an attack on America.

Do you ever spare a thought for the innocent victims of American aggression in recent years? Or is it, in your opinion, only American lives that have worth?"

The argument has been phrased by those supporting this decision in those terms. I'm sure most of the other victims of this atrocity feel the same way I do. Your other question is a red herring.
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dalriadan,

glasgow 20/08/2009 18:26:28
Regarding number 405 (Sean)
This is not about hating the USA. It's about questioning a nation who pollute and allienate the civilised world.
Dropping napalm on babies in Vietnam, contaminating the ecology of Laos, slaughtering people in Central America, now Afghanistan. It has to be challenged by humanity.
America are not fit to be arbitors.
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Sean Allen Smith,

Austin, TX 20/08/2009 18:28:20
"#405 Sean Allen Smith.

Good grief... You must have had a terrible upbringing to think like you do. You poor soul - If you seriously think that Scotland released Megrahi as some form of political act against the USA then you need therapy.."

I don't think that and that's not what I said. You need reading therapy.
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20/08/2009 18:29:05
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20/08/2009 18:31:32
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DocHolliday65,

Midwest-USA 20/08/2009 18:32:41
1. I don't agree with this decision.

2. But it was for the Scottish Government to make this decision, and they did what they felt was best. In a democratic society, decisions are made by our democratically elected officials.

3. There are many who believe this man was innocent, yet he was found guilty by a panel of three judges. If these judges were wrong, then why did it take so long for his appeal to be heard??

4. Put yourself in the position of the families that lost loved ones on this flight, all the families. If you were in their position, wouldn't you take the same steps they did? And given the fact that a man was tried and covicted, wouldn't you believe this man to be the murderer (until proven otherwise)? Why after this man was convicted (under what many believe is questionable evidence) did the citizens of Scotland not challenge their government to conduct a more thorough inquiry/investigation?

5. As a veteran of two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan, I am grateful for the support from the sons and daughters of Scotland. And I mourn their loss as a "Comrade in Arms" as much as I mourn the loss of my own soldiers. I know that the people of Scotland and the UK were also grateful for the sacrifice of my Great-Uncle when he died liberating Europe from the Nazis 60 years ago. But why drag comments about the current wars into this discussion?

6. I do believe that this man will be paraded as a martyr in the streets of Libya, while living and after he is gone. And we will all witness it on the television. How many potential terrorists will his martyrdom embolden to take action? More than a few I suspect.

7. If drug deals were made internal and/or between the UK/Scottish gov't and it comes to light, what are the citizens of Scotland prepared to do about it and what message does this send to the victim's families??

8. It is apparent that this man played some role in the PAN AM 103 bombing, and I suspect it would be alot easier on the f
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20/08/2009 18:36:02
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