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Luxury builder goes to the wall as jobless figures rise



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Published Date: 16 October 2008
THEY were the pinnacle of the successful and audacious regeneration of one of Scotland's most down-at-heel regions. The Gregor Shore developments on the coast at Leith had been marketed as ideal residences for the young executives flooding into the area, and had commanded prices in the region of £1 million.
But yesterday, the cement mixers and drills had fallen silent at Granton Anchor and Platinum Point.

Gregor Shore, which employs 120 people, had been forced into administration by the "material slowdown of the property market".

The bleak news from the Leith seafront coincided with brutal new unemployment statistics showing the biggest jobless rise for 17 years.

Ministers were warned UK unemployment could hit three million, as the total soared by 164,000, more than 10 per cent, in the quarter to August, reaching 1.79 million.

The position in Scotland, which has seen unemployment buck the UK trend and fall for the past three quarters, was even worse. The jobless total rose by 19,000 to 124,000 – a rise of 18 per cent – the biggest increase since the early 1990s and the sharpest rise over the past three months of anywhere in the UK.

The figures came as Freescale, a United States-owned computer chip firm, said it was axing 800 of its 1,000 jobs in East Kilbride and halting all manufacturing at the plant.

The Fife electronic manufacturing services firm Cemtron has also shed 41 jobs, a week after slipping into administration.

In total, the rising tide of unemployment in Scotland has resulted in the equivalent of 34 new people signing on for jobseeker's allowances every day over the past three months.

Scotland is doing better than the rest of the UK in overall terms, with an unemployment rate of 4.7 per cent – a full one point below the UK average. This is also well below the European average of 7.5 per cent.

But experts warned last night that Scotland was starting to feel the full effects of the economic slowdown and that unemployment would gather pace for the rest of this year, and probably into the next two years as well.

The construction, manufacturing and retail sectors were the worst hit in the latest quarterly figures. And experts warned that the collapse of Gregor Shore would not be the last such example among construction firms.

The financial services sector, which is crucial to the health of the Edinburgh economy, is also expected to suffer significant job losses over the next few months, as are farming and tourism, but to a lesser degree.

Rising unemployment helped depress the stock market. In London, the FTSE 100 fell 311.17, or 7 per cent, to end the day at 4083.04, while in New York, the Dow Jones index tumbled 733 points, or 7.9 per cent, to its second-largest loss ever.

The falls were triggered by deepening fears of recession across the economies of Britain, the United States and Europe: George Bush, the US president, said the downturn would take a long time to fix. Retail sales figures in the US also turned out much worse than feared, with analysts predicting the country is either in recession already or moving that way.

The UK unemployment statistics coincided with the release of the latest business survey from the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, which warned there was now "clear evidence of a looming recession".

Liz Cameron, the group's chief executive, said: "The continuing problems in the global financial sector, general slowdown in the international economy and continued price inflation are real problems for Scottish business."

Experts warned that rising unemployment figures and the gloomy Chambers of Commerce survey pointed to a severe and extended slowdown. Vicky Redwood, of Capital Economics, said that, at the current rate, the number of people claiming jobseeker's allowance would top a million by the end of this year.

Total unemployment would rise by 1.5 million to about three million by the end of 2010, she predicted.

Howard Archer, the chief UK economist at Global Insight, said: "This is a worrying set of labour market data that indicate overall that the jobs market is being hit ever harder by the deepening economic downturn and deteriorating business confidence. It seems inevitable that unemployment will rise sharply further over the coming months as near certain recession and depressed business confidence impact.

"Extended, very tight credit conditions would also be liable to lead to firms having to shed jobs."

The gloomy statistics also showed a much steeper decline in female employment than in male employment, but this was not reflected in the actual unemployment figures.

This suggests that women, who make up the bulk of part-time jobs, were being laid off but not registering for benefit or declaring themselves unemployed.

Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, vowed to do all he could to keep people in jobs, pointing out that unemployment was higher in the US, Germany, France and Italy than in Britain.

Unions and opposition politicians pressed the government to halt its programme of Jobcentre closures and 12,000 job cuts in the Department for Work and Pensions in the face of lengthening dole queues.

In the Commons, William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, standing in for Tory leader David Cameron at Prime Minister's Questions, said it was a "grim day" for the British economy, and claimed a government promise of £100 million to help retrain the jobless, which had been previously announced and would be spread over three years, worked out at only £18 for each unemployed person.

But Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, said: "Every country in the world is facing real economic challenges.

Our priority must be to help people back into sustainable employment quickly and we will use every method at our disposal to make that happen."

John Swinney, the finance secretary at Holyrood, said of the latest jobless statistics: "These figures are obviously disappointing, but they confirm everything the Scottish Government has been saying about how the financial crisis is impacting on the real economy."

How Platinum Point transforms the skyline – as well as the economic profile – of the Leith and Newhaven areas
How Platinum Point transforms the skyline – as well as the economic profile – of the Leith and Newhaven areas



A luxury vision – but what now for Leith waterfront?

LUXURY developer Gregor Shore blames the "material slowdown" of the property market for forcing it into administration.

But some say a reining back of changes that have been sweeping Leith for several years may be no bad thing.

Last night, property experts said the company's demise signalled the start of a slowdown in the regeneration of the port – but claimed this was not before time.

The administration puts a question mark over the Waterfront Development – a hugely ambitious project taking in retail and residential buildings. It also means job cuts among the 120 staff at Leith-based Gregor Shore.

Willie Hunter, chief executive of the Edinburgh Solicitors Property Centre, said of the announcement: "From the point of view of future development, it is very big news. I would guess it will put things on hold.

"On the other hand, there has been a feeling that the whole Leith area regeneration was beginning to reach saturation. It is probably not a bad time for a well-earned breather."

The flats at the developments are nearly finished, with only 35 still awaiting completion certificates.

However, the common ground still resembles a building site, with discarded tools and scaffolding and broken advertising signs hanging from fences.

John Reid and Patrick Lannagan, of Deloitte and Touche, were appointed joint administrators on Tuesday.

The firm said: "Due to the material downturn in the housing market, Gregor Shore has been suffering severe cash-flow problems and the directors concluded they had no other option than to appoint administrators.

"It is the administrators' intention to complete the company's two major developments, Platinum Point at Newhaven Harbour and Anchor at Granton Harbour."

Platinum Point was built in two phases, with about 500 flats in total.

The Anchor comprises 135 apartments.

Ron Hewitt, chief executive of Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce, said: "The Waterfront project is going to happen. This just means a degree of delay."

Erikka Askeland and Lindsay McIntosh


Who's feeling the pinch – and where axe may fall

• CONSTRUCTION


A total of 15,000 Scottish jobs in housing construction went in the first half of this year, with a further 30,000 expected to have been lost since June.

The rate of decline in commercial construction has also hit record levels. Howard Archer, chief economist for Global Insight, said earlier this month: "The construction sector is now clearly very firmly in recession."

RETAIL

Scotland's retail sector has had a reasonably good 12 months, better than the conditions in England and Wales. But there are now definite signs of a slowdown.

The run-up to Christmas is crucial for retailers, but there is evidence that it could be the worst for many years, and the January figures are expected to show a major slump in sales.

Fiona Moriarty, of the Scottish Retail Consortium, said: "Retailers will have to be thinking very carefully about staffing levels and the number of seasonal staff they take on in the run-up to Christmas."

MANUFACTURING

Manufacturing has been experiencing the steepest decline of any sector in Scotland. A combination of rising costs and a loss of customers has been to blame.

There has also been a warning that confidence is at a "record low".

Data from the Office for National Statistics has shown a 46,000 drop in the number of manufacturing jobs across the UK for the past three months, to a record low of 2.87 million.

TOURISM

There are positive signs, in that the strong euro has made Scotland a more attractive place for Europeans to visit, but there will be contractions at the higher end of the market.

A spokesman for VisitScotland said: "We will probably find that things like caravaning and camping will at least be stable, but things which are more expensive, like hotels, particularly long stays in hotels, may start to contract a bit."

However, according to the latest Scottish Chambers of Commerce survey, visitor numbers were down in the first quarter of this year and have declined in every quarter since.

FINANCIAL SERVCIES

The financial services sector is facing the most worrying time of all, and the banking crisis has left many institutions unsure of their future.

Job losses have already been predicted if the Lloyds TSB/HBOS merger goes ahead, and more are possible at RBS after its part-nationalisation by the government.

The whole sector is expected to go through a period of contraction and retrenchment over the next 12 months after years of expansion. This will be bad news for Edinburgh in particular.

FARMING

High fuel prices, soaring feed costs and a wet summer combined over the past few months to put massive pressure on Scotland's farmers.

This has now been compounded by a contraction in borrowing and, for farmers who do manage to get finance, the rates are much higher than they were a year ago.

A spokeswoman for the National Farmers' Union Scotland said: "It may be the final nail in the coffin for many of them. It may just force some people to give up before they wanted to."


UNEMPLOYMENT IN NUMBERS:

English north-east 7.7%
London 7.5%
Wales 5.9%
UK average 5.7%
Scotland 4.7%
English south-west 4.1%
Euro area 7.5%
Germany 7.4%
France 7.2%
United States 6.1%


The full article contains 1907 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 October 2008 11:35 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Unemployment , Credit Crunch
 
1

Hmm ...,

16/10/2008 00:09:35
... looks like the trams really are on a ride to nowhere!

It's probably also "not a bad time for a well-earned breather" for the tram project as well. After all, the Waterfront Redevelopment was the "inspiration" behind the tram project.
2

Nellie Rogers,

16/10/2008 00:13:45
Reclaim the port
Ram yer trams.
Million quid for a hoose in Granton, you could have bought 100,000 jigsaw flats for that back in my day.
Credit Crunch, the breakfast of champions.
3

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 01:41:53
#1 - Agreed. Given the joke of a tram business plan required additional massive residential development at Leith, expansion of the Gyle business park and another RBS style building at Gogar JUST TO BREAK EVEN, to continue with this vanity project is simply wasting more money.

Far better to mothball the whole thing and launch a criminal investigation into how such a huge amount of taxpayers money has been wasted on this project. Who exactly benefited from this?
4

Watson,

Irvine 16/10/2008 06:32:57
When is Brown going to tell us that unemployment is a price worth paying?
5

Bibamus,

16/10/2008 07:03:32
Can they not just do their usual con trick and change the way that they count the figures to make it look better - or have they run out of all options ?
6

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 16/10/2008 07:05:52
#5

When he himself is unemployed? Oh, I forgot about his wonderful pension which doubled after he toppled his former flat mate Blair who is now as fat a cat as you can get. Thye can't lose can they? They pay no price for being wrong.
7

Anonym,

16/10/2008 07:41:59
No such thing as a luxury flat.

Luxury = Mansion, with a garden big enough to shoot clay pigeons in, and a garage with space for the Rolls, the Lambo, and the runabouts.

Luxury flats? Pah!
8

James,

Dundee 16/10/2008 07:46:45
Developments such as this are grunding to a halt Scotland wide.

The irony is that there is a desperate shortage of affordable family housing.

Many families were forced into inflated mortgages, many who would have traditionaly looked to social housing.
They will be the first to suffer due to the downturn, and homelessness will soar.

We have all to a degree been sucked in by Tory/New Labour 'popular' capitalism.

No need for thrift...the golden days will last for ever no more 'boom and bust'.

Well 'bang' goes that theory the lessons of history such as the 'Soth Sea Bubble' have not been learnt.

Welcome to recession and deflation.
9

Danny Mather,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 07:51:34
who would have thought that building 8 storey developments over underground car parks, on reclaimed land, could have led to problems?

I mean really, who in their right mind would shell out the big bucks for a flat out in the Forth?
10

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 16/10/2008 07:53:06
Unemployment? When there is so much obvious work to be done?

Re-opening and extending the rail network; more prisons; a huge industry based on submarine turbine generation; sorting out school buildings; replacing no-hope schemes with viable communities; hydro schemes; making our own wind turbines; etc.

Come on Sir Alex! Spread the good news!
11

Anecdotal,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 07:53:59
No 9 hindsight is indeed a wonderful gift.
12

eric,

lothian 16/10/2008 08:00:13
True jobs and housing should be in place before transport is even thought about.
I see Glasgow will get Scotlands only 6 star jumeirah hotelnext to central station.
13

Erica from East Kilbride,

16/10/2008 08:02:49
#4 the real quality hotels of Scotland are in Edinburgh - Balmoral, Cally. Plus the new Missoni Hotel (the first in Europe) being built on the Royal Mile. Frankly Glasgow shouldn't try to compete as it will end in tears for the Second City.
14

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 08:08:44
13 eric
"I see Glasgow will get Scotlands only 6 star jumeirah hotelnext to central station"

I would't bank on it. There are so-called plans to build exotic Jumeirah hotels all over the place but few reckon that all (if any) will be built.
15

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 08:09:34
#11 Rukes

You're so right. If Eck and the SNP could get their fingers out and make sure this was the direction for Scotland, they'd be on to a winner. Scotland should be at the forefront of R&D into such renewable energy technology. Broon conned the compliant liberal media into believing an economy based on the housing market made him a genius.
16

The Glasgow Ranger,

Glasgow 16/10/2008 08:09:49
Ye`ll have had yer development then,ken?
17

Anonym,

16/10/2008 08:11:00
James at number 9.

How exactly were many families forced into taking inflated mortgages?

Why should anyone be entitled to subsidised social housing? There will never be enough to go round!

If people are working and yet unable to afford rent or a realistic mortgage, then they need to stop doing what they are doing, and negociate better wages!

But no... let the state provide for all.
18

Massive,

Gorebridge 16/10/2008 08:11:47
Never mind the guys with the big bucks and those idiots who would be able to aford one of these flats. What about the tradesman and apprentices who weren't on site when the liquidators moved in and whose personal tools have been siezed. Now they not only don't have a job but they don't have the equipment they had to pay for themselves. Let's think about the personal hardship here and cut out the clever and snide comments.
19

The Glasgow Ranger,

Glasgow 16/10/2008 08:13:12
#13 - it`s going to be nowhere near Central Station.Arygle Street actually - on the site of the former iconic "What Everywoman Wants" and along from the former Anderston bus station.
Well-heeled hotel guests will still be able to buy a Kevlar ant-stab vest from Victor Morris,across the road.
20

The Glasgow Ranger,

Glasgow 16/10/2008 08:14:22
#19 - when was the last time somebody seized your personal tool?
21

Rambo.the.Jambo,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 08:15:19
# 17 The Glasgow Ranger

At least we have a city to be proud of, recognisd all over the world as a star attraction.

The best way to develop that vermin hole you live in would be to drop an A-bomb on it.
22

The Glasgow Ranger,

Glasgow 16/10/2008 08:22:19
#22 - as featured in "Trainspotting"?

Tynecastle? - flats,flats,glorious flats - it`s here at Tynecastle they`ll build......lol.
23

HughB,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 08:36:12
Were they supposed to be giving a donation towards the tram line?

I assume that this will no longer happen.

Where will that money come from?

I'm not going to pay for it, that's for sure.
24

Jay Kay,

16/10/2008 08:41:03
I'm sorry if I upset anyone but I have to laugh my f**king ass of at all those so called mates of mine who live in big five bedroom houses, bought on a 125% mortguage, they used to say to me hey Jay what the hells going on you earn a really good salary why do you stick with you wee four in a block ex-cooncil house, you could be living it up like us buying new houses and cars and oh look at my 50" LCD screen telly its great man.

Oh I used to say maybe one day iLL GO AND BUY ONE when its actually at a price that its worth, your so called 200 grand bundle of kindling is going to be pretty much worth just that in a few years time and that is, the price of a bundle of kindling.

At least my hoose is over 100 hundred years old, it doesnt have a single crack, is built with substantial timbers 8"x3" in the attic and strong enough to allow me to convert should I need to have that extra bedroom for the wee bundle of joy that may or may not eventually end up in our lives. All our neighbours have asense of community, our street is the cleanest and quietest street I have ever lived in unlike the brat infested new private housing schemes up the road, the state these kids leave the street in up there is a bl**dy disgrace.

Greed and the old lets beat the Jones's syndrome is alive and well in Dunfermline. There are so many for sale signs going up though, you can hardly see where your going.

So you can keep your massive debt and 125% mortguage old boy, thanks but no thanks, me and the Mrs J will just plod on in our little four in the block thanks, we will keep our ISA'a and savings and I will continue to run about in my six year old Golf and continue to sleep soundly at night knowing that, we owe no bu**er nothing.

Thanks a lot to the banks who I now have to bail out I never ever wanted to own shares but it looks like Im being forced to, thanks Gordon your a pal I'm sure the voters of Glenrothes will give you your answer on the 6th November.

£1,000,000.00 for a flat,
25

ccc,

16/10/2008 08:41:27
The demise of this development has been obvious for years.
26

Farmernot,

16/10/2008 08:41:38
Trams to Nowheresville on the waterfront.
27

Alasdair,

Dean Village 16/10/2008 08:47:53
#13, eric - shut up, you weirdo. Seriously, why do you bother? Do you even appreciate that you are so tiresome that a few folk I know are convinced you're a wind-up merchant from through here, trying to make weegies look bad to us?

#14, Erica from East Kilbride - I realise that you're just trying to annoy that goon, but please, just ignore him. It's for the best. Apart from anything else, our hotels aren't that special either, especially the Balmoral - it's well pokey inside. Gleneagles is probably the only decent hotel in Scotland.
28

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 08:55:23
Nice one, #4 - Whaur's yer Business Plan noo, Wy-Lie Gallagher? What's been done so far is a long overdue modernisation and rationalisation of utilities, so it's not entirely wasted. Going on to build the TramLINE now would be a monumental, criminal folly.
29

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 08:57:35
GraemeH (5) - When we're right, we're right, eh?

Even if the politicians could not see this coming, they should have realised that the possibility was there and designed any transport infrastructure with that in mind.

I have read plenty of evidence from tram objectors to the Parliament in which they warned against the risk of building a tram which would be almost entirely reliant on this development. Even the peer review of the business case presented to the Parliament identified this risk and yet the policiticians did nothing to guarde against it.

The best we can hope for now is that politicians will start considering a strategy to help Lothian Buses maintain their services as it is in line to sustain very hefty annual losses indeed once the tram starts running.
30

Joe,

Bruntsfield Place 16/10/2008 09:00:39
#13..I wouldn't bank on the completion of the M74 extension nor the success/completion of the Glasgow Airport rail link...
31

SS,

Reason land 16/10/2008 09:02:59
Firstly - I really feel for the employees of this company and its subconractors. The majority of these people are the innocent bystanders in all of this. I hope they find another job soon. I was made redundant last christmas 3 months after getting married and its not a nice place to be.

However, the sooner these developers, the council and anyone wanting to buy one of these flats realises that Edinburgh is not the Cote D'Azur the better. It never ever will be. The leith shore is an industrial space miles from the city centre. An icy wind regularly blows up the Forth even in mid summer rendering the balconies all but useless. The lifestyle the marketeers are trying to sell is simply not achieveable in Edinburgh. And the prices...come off it.

However, I suspect most people realised this long ago as most of these flats have been empty or unsold since long before the credit crunch.


Time to reassess the Tram project and divert the money into something more useful. Its never to late.
32

Alasdair,

Dean Village 16/10/2008 09:10:05
Back to the article subject - didn't many of us always say that these flats in Granton were a disaster waiting to happen? Even if these companies weren't going bust, the promotional pictures showed dull, soulless, windswept ghettos, made up of hulking towers of shoddily built "luxury" accomodation. What sort of as luxury is it to buy a property with a projected lifespan of less than 80 years? Whatever happened to taking pride in doing something well?
33

,

16/10/2008 09:12:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
34

Destroy the Planet,

16/10/2008 09:20:16
Ha ha ha , what a bunch of idiots, so whats next then 'inspiring capital' (dont make me laugh, you bunch of morons). Get back in yer box Edinburgh !
35

Liz,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 09:20:39
If there really were any 'young executives' ready to pay 1 million pounds for a flat then they deserve everything they get. Was it not in this paper a few months ago that people were complaining about the build quality of some of these flats. The developers have conned hundreds of people that these flats are worth anything at all. I predict they will end up as Council style houses within a few years (if they have not fallen down of their own accord)
36

,

16/10/2008 09:27:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 09:29:52
#33, they did, you are correct. Even less need for a tramline to Granton with stuttering developments.

38

1stEdinburgh,

Scotland 16/10/2008 09:34:40
Good riddance to them, hopefully along with Barrats, Taylor Wimpey and all the other shysters that have ruined Scotland and the rest of Britain with their land reclaim schemes. This particular outfit tried to turn Leith into a mini Hong Kong with disasterous effect. Leith, once a lovely place, now looks like a huge glorified council estate. All in the name of 'regeneration'. Well done the local council and former Scottish Labour administration. Anything that can't be sold at compulsory 50% of asking price should be given to council tenants (I can't see many of those wanting to leave there though) or even better KNOCKED DOWN AT THE EXPENSE OF THE DEVELOPERS.
39

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 09:42:42
#25 Jay Kay

Sounds like you listened to the sage words of yir old Scots maw. Ever thought of politics? I suspect you'd make quite a good Finance Secretary.
40

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 16/10/2008 09:46:31
Just heard about £650,000 houses being as executive houses in Perthshire, the internal doors are the cheapest you will find on the market, the finishing is rubbish, you can drive your car into the garage but you can’t get the car doors open to get out.
I have to ask have we all been brainwashed into buying rubbish just to be seen to be successful. Or is it that we are to blind to see what is before us in the rush to put our doggy pasts behind us?
41

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 09:49:17
#33, GrahamH and SarahB, absolutely. To repeat my post from 12 May this year (Story 'Trams costs shoot up for second time in fortnight') "As I recall, TIE's own figures predicted a reduction of about 2% in congestion and the same in 'pollution'. The whole crazy scheme was to support 'developers' who'd made all kind of promises to vain idiot-cooncillors about some grand town-planning nirvana called 'the waterfront'. Now the market in overpriced plasterboard rabbit-hutches is in meltdown, where does this leave the already fanciful 'business case' for the TramCars? Answers in a Broon Envelope, please." Just wish I could predict the Lottery numbers with as much certainty.
42

Boy Wonder,

16/10/2008 09:50:25
Can we put a stop to the trams as an unnecessary luxury now??
43

The Glasgow Ranger,

Glasgow 16/10/2008 10:02:21
#37 - I agree.They should learn from the Glasgow riverside developments - good selection of properties and associated pricing from 1 bedroomed apartments to duplex penthouses on both sides of the river within walking distance of the city centre.
44

Green,

16/10/2008 10:09:34
Exotic Jumeirah hotels all over the place but few reckon that all (if any) will be built. Maybe, all the money that comes from Dubai is laundered money so a lot of uneconomic things have to be done with it. 20 years ago Dubai, with no oil, said bring us your money, we won't ask where it came from. Now all this is being touted as respectable businesses, investing round the world. Its easy to build on sand in the desert from drugs, people trafficking, arms dealing, piracy etc.

WElcome to the brave new Scotland.
45

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 10:16:49
Thomas (42) - Here is what the National Audit Office said to one of the Parliamentary Tram Committees in 2004: "The key thing to do is to look ahead. If you are seeking to introduce a system in six to eight years, you need to look forward to make sure that the existing patronage base will still be there when you open. The question is not whether the system should be radial or circular; the key thing is to ensure that the routes that you choose are the right routes and that the people who live on those routes and who want to get from A to B will still be there when you open the system".

Still, our politicians knew better, didn't they?
46

The Strategist,

16/10/2008 10:16:50
Always thought you could build a really great motor race circuit down at the docks.. A bit like the new Singapore track perhaps...

Sad to say though we don't have the vision nor of course the funds now to do that. Pity perhaps that RBS didn't think of that instead of putting a reputed £50m into sponsoring F1 everywhere but here.

#16 - Draco Was a Wimp

Sorry but we've already missed the boat on all these ideas.
47

McMillar,

Fife 16/10/2008 10:17:35
Lot of references to quality here and it is a major issue. Don’t mind paying a lot if getting a real quality job. These flats and many others charge top whack and have muppets working on them. I’ve bought a few over the years and have usually worked through a 5 page snag list to get things right. Got there in the end but only as I know what to look for in many cases and have the time to chase. The waterfront in Edinburgh will be developed over time and it should be a fabulous location but needs to be much much better.
48

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

16/10/2008 10:20:10
As someone who lived in Edinburgh until about the time when the plan project was announced I am at a loss to know why people here are so anti-tram? I am geniunly curious and not being critical, so any pointers welcome.

These days I live in a city with trams and other forms of excellent public transport and the influence is amazing. For one having a tram network means people take the tram when drinking rather than driving a car home - so less deaths. Secondly it´s cheaper than owning a car, and as it has priority there are fewer traffic delays and well you don´t have to worry about parking. From an economic point of view it also means we consume less petrol. thus meaning we could export the stuff to other countries rather than consuming it ourselves. I am at a loss to know why the UK is so anti-public transport, I guess it must be that we like to copy the Americans - which did us a lot good when it came to Iraq and the banking crisis.

As for the Leith thing, well I used to live there and it was getting saturated even then - and that was a few years ago. Also I remember being quoted about 230k for a show box, so decided to put two fingers up at the developers and leave that idea aside. I am afraid the property madness in the UK has now become more than madness and more like its downfall. I have no sympathy for the greedy developers etc who will lose out as a result of this, although I do feel sorry for the construction workers involved.
49

Green,

16/10/2008 10:26:29
learn from the Glasgow riverside developments - good selection of properties and associated pricing from 1 bedroomed apartments to duplex penthouses on both sides of the river within walking distance of the city centre.

What how to sell them? They've had huge difficulty selling them. Some eventualy got carved up inside, in breach or planning and fire regs, to rent as bedsits. And of cousre there's no wind in Glasgow, its easy to enjoy the dinky little balconies.
50

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 10:31:19
HBOS Tomorrow (50) - because (a) it is too heavily reliant on the Waterfront and the airport and any delay/failure to supply passengers will have a direct impact on our bus services (which currently cover the whole city and account for in excess of 100m passenger journeys a year); (b) the trams were predicted (on the basis of high passenger numbers) to result in a paltry 1% reduction in congestion and 1% improvement in air quality (even this is unlikely to be achieved because the passengers from the Waterfront will not be there and bus services will be cut resulting in increased car usage); (c) the Environmental Statement for Tram Line 1 predicted an "adverse environmental effect" on every section of the line, with the exception of the Waterfront; (d) the price tag of £512m could have been spent far more wisely. I could go on, but time does not permit.
51

Sports for Edinburgh,

16/10/2008 10:33:24
Wasn't this always going to happen? i mean, the amount of housing developments in scotland... it was bound to come to an end - wasn't it?
Building houses at the rate we were was never going to be sustainable, and as a result, the jobs building these houses were not going to be sustainable. Now, Im not going to say I predicted this, but if you look at the whole situation - someboy should have. Lets blame the SNP/ Labour/ Lib dems/ Tories
52

Corrennie,

16/10/2008 10:37:30
Does anyone know what's happening with the Quartermile development at the old ERI?
53

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

16/10/2008 10:46:20
18 Anonym,16/10/2008 08:11:00

'Why should anyone be entitled to subsidised social housing? There will never be enough to go round!'

You've got that wrong haven't you.

Social Housing is not subsidised, not since the days of Thatcher the Snatcher. Under laws brought out by her, 'Social housing' must be 'self financing'.

Indeed the obverse is the situation, as quite a few LA's have raided the HRA (Housing Revenue Account) to subsidise 'Home Owners', as has been done in West Dunbartonshire in the last 2 years of the Nu Labour/Owld Torie control of that LA, when £1m in each year was 'redirected' to the 'General Fund' in order to reduce the size of the CT increase, at the expense of refurbishment and repairs, which the tenants have paid for!!! To add insult to injury, the Nu Labour/Owld Torie cooncillors even increased the rents of the poor oppressed tenants, by over £2 per week, the Rucking Albert Henry's, every last one of the Nu Labour/Owld Torie politicos should be tried for crimes against the people, and stuck inside for 50 years on bread and water!!!!

BOT Not surprising that the so called 'luxury market' is imploding, in Glasgow, on the riverside, it has come to light that people were 'investing' in luxury apartments,some costing as much as £750,000, not realising that the properties only had a 'life expectancy' of 50 years, and were on 50 year leases, which, of course, were not renewable.

I'm afraid I have no sympathy for the rogues and spivs who perpetrated this crime on the people of this fair and beautiful country, and if every one of them went bankrupt and lost every penny I would not cry, nay I'd Bluidywell cheer!!!!

54

Anton,

Porto Sant'Elpidio 16/10/2008 10:48:28
Did anybody notice this?

"The figures came as Freescale, a United States-owned computer chip firm, said it was axing 800 of its 1,000 jobs in East Kilbride and halting all manufacturing at the plant."

And does anybody know why?

No?

Then just ask Freescale where exactly in China their new plant is going to start producing those chips, and how much more profit they'll make from paying much lower wages...
55

Skip McClendon,

16/10/2008 11:07:06
We are so lucky that about a billion quid of our money is being spent building a tramline to this debacle...allowing all the non-existent millionaire buyers to give up their expensive cars to pay £5 a time for the honour of riding on the Cooncil's tramset from the airport to the half-finished hooses that they can't afford to buy.
56

Liz,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 11:10:20
#54
I have no idea, but I would like to know what is going to happen to all the £200,000 one-bedroom rabbit hutches that are supposed to be being built at the Springside development at Fountainbridge - that site was looking a bit quiet when I was past it recently.
57

Honeybee Mel,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 11:10:52
#18 - "How exactly were many families forced into taking inflated mortgages?

Why should anyone be entitled to subsidised social housing? There will never be enough to go round!

If people are working and yet unable to afford rent or a realistic mortgage, then they need to stop doing what they are doing, and negociate better wages!

But no... let the state provide for all."

What planet are you on???

Should these people working on or near minimum wage (many providing valuable services, such as hospital workers and classroom assistants, and indeed construction workers) give up their jobs and join the other 124,000 currently unemployed in Scotland, in the hope that they can somehow negiotate better wages? In a recession, with unemployment rising day on day? Get real.

#9 is right - instead of building 'luxury flats', we should have been building more good quality affordable housing for the families of edinburgh who struggle to get even a toe on the housing ladder.
Tell me how someone working for around minimum wage and bringing home less than £1000 pm can afford a mortgage of over £100k, or a private rent of £500 pm or more - because that is the reality of living in Edinburgh and the surrounding area.


58

Bananaflatjack,

16/10/2008 11:11:50
Wouldn't have taken a genius to work out that this was going to happen. I say, they should turn the waterfront into a big 'Waterworld' theme park. Y'know the massively over budget, overblown, bloated and universally panned Kevin Costner epic? It's what the people want!
59

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

16/10/2008 11:44:21
Sarah B, seems like the costs do not quite result in the required benefits. But that could be as much due to the plan being flawed, rather than the concept of trams. I agree the bus service is very good, often such services are in partnership with trams, for example here you use both to get around. With a sensible system it really does make a huge difference. I suspect though that the Edinburgh scheme probably needs to be even bolder than the one being proposed for any real benefit to occur. That sadly costs money and would probably try the patience of any saint during its construction. As for money, unless you are a bank is somewhat hard to comeby these days. Also as with other major cities here the whole centre is for padestrians (and in some cases also by tram. Interestingly the streets are always packed, which kind of shoots the shop owners arguments in the UK about such schemes out of the water.

It´s important though that trams etc extend the transport network on a highspeed basis to outlying areas and not just Leith etc which are already very well served by buses. If they do that they cut down on trips in and out of the city centre from more outlying areas, as people realise 10 minutes on the tram and no parking hassle for say 40 quid a month is far better than any car.

From memories of Edinburgh the problem with the buses was not really the network but the fact that they offered a dreadful service on evenings and weekends (with part route being the norm). Also they could often get very full, as their capacity is far less than any tram. Add to this the problem with traffic chaos caused by competing firms and cars and 3-4 mile trips on several occasions took me around 1 hour. Which really is useless.
60

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 11:50:55
SarahB & Graham H; just had another look through TIE's 'Revenue and Risk' appendix of the Business Case, to which you've both referred often - although it witters superficially about 'worst-case scenario', it doesn't even begin to contemplate this one. No doubt Embra Cooncil are frozen like rabbits in headlights, but what do our Intrepid Parliamentarians intend to do? Recall Wy-Lie Gallager for interrogation, at the very least. Better still, follow #4's advice; suspend funding now, bring in the Auditors and maybe even the police.
61

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 12:13:58
HBOS Tomorrow (62) - I agree with much of what you say, eg, that trams can be very effective indeed and that the most effective systems tend to be more extensive.

However, that is to ignore the fact that the governments of other countries are willing to both subsidise their public transport considerably and have the power to levy taxes on the private sector to pay for the construction. We could argue all day about whether the Scottish/UK government should follow suit, but the fact is that public transport in this country must break even and the construction is overwhelming paid for from the public purse.

What is really worrying in the case of the Edinburgh tram scheme is that it will be Lothian Buses who have to deal with the losses and Lothian Buses must break even. In order to do that bus services/frequencies throughout its whole network will require to be reduced and ticket prices increased and I do not understand how that would be conducive to encouraging public transport usage. It is interesting that you mention the poor evening/night service when those that did exist have recently become victim to bus cut-backs. Given the stalled develpment in the city and the general economic downturn, further cut-backs must now be necessary.
62

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 12:18:57
Thomas (63) - I must admit, until I had read the Revenue and Risk report, I had just been highly sceptical of the tram project but, after I had read that document (calculator very much in hand!!!), I became opposed to the scheme.

The scenarios considered in the report are absolutely horrendous and seem to take no account of rising costs as well! I can honestly now see another Sheffield situation coming and hope the local councillors get their heads out of the clouds and start thinking of strategies to protect the buses.
63

Rambo.the.Jambo,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 12:31:39
# 23 The Glasgow Ranger

Ha Ha nice try!!!!!

The junkie schemie scenes were actually shot mostly in Glasgow because they couldn't find any suitably run down areas in Edinburgh.
64

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 12:36:08
Sarah @ 65, You're more polite than I am regarding where Edinburgh councillors need to get their heads out of! But I think we're pretty much on the same wavelength. Although I also note HBOS Tomorrow's comments, your experience of Edinburgh seems a bit out of date and you don't seem to appreciate that this single TramLINE is little more than a monument to the political vanity of the previous administration, led by Anderson and Burns.
65

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 12:57:46
Thomas (67) - LOL. I might not write it, but it doesn't mean to say I don't think it - frequently!

A Lib-Dem councillor told me he believed the business case to be perfectly robust - and he is an accountant!! I don't think he can have bothered with boring appendices like the R&R report.

Despite the fact that electricity prices have increased 34% in the last year, the leader of the Tory Group said that we shall only be able to use trams in the future, as the cost of petrol was rising!!

The Greens continue to support the project, which has the potential to do untold damage to public transport provision in the city and despite the low reduction in congestion/air quality improvement, because they flap their hands about anything that smacks of being environmentally-friendly, so long as it costs alot.

And Labour, well the tram scheme was their idea in the first place and they will continue to push for it no matter what.

Even the SNP are remarkably quiet in their opposition and seem prepared to sit back and let our bus services be jeopardised. Is Steve Cardownie not on the board of the Waterfront?
66

Bob Wilson,

Anchorman 16/10/2008 13:04:48
I was firmly in favour of the trams until I started reading a bit more into the detail and planning of how they will operate. Not going to bore you with my conclusions, but can anyone here tell me how frequent each tram is planned to run? and what is the capacity per tram? And also will the introduction of the trams do away with the present Airport bus service?...



67

,

16/10/2008 13:17:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
68

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 13:20:40
Bob Wilson (69) - I think the business case was based on 6 trams per hour in each direction, rising to 8 per hour in 2016. I can't recall the capacity of each tram as the spec changed so often! Likewise, the frequency of the Airport bus seems uncertain but I think is currently anticipated to halve, as is the No. 22.
69

The Glasgow Ranger,

Glasgow 16/10/2008 13:21:57
#56 - Freescale was spun off from Motorola - the same corporation that closed their mobile phone factory at Easter Inch,Bathgate.
70

Redbruce,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 14:24:58
re#71 - at the show-and-tell meeting in St Mary's Cathedral we were told that at least three bus services are to be wholly axed, the 22, 25 and ( bizarrely) the 10.
71

easy money,

brazil 16/10/2008 14:39:48
this is the best news i've heard all week...

these new build bandits deserve all they get and to be honest their developments are an eyesore...

Leith / Granton is a **ithole and it doesnt matter what you do to the place - it will always still be full of pimps, druggies, murderers and thieves...

anyone foolish enough to have bought new build must be seriously worried....

the only people that will survive the current economic turbulence are people like me...

i took all the risks in the early 90's (despite people telling me i was crazy and that property was finished in Edinburgh) and now have a substantial portfolio of flats bought and paid for....the ever increasing rents are paying for a very nice lifestyle thanks very much and all in all the credit cruch has been good to me....

if the base rates keep going down i'll be even better off....

in 2018 a one bed flat in Edinburgh will be £200k....

happy days
72

fresian,

edinburgh 16/10/2008 15:03:07
The down turn in sales of the "Luxury" properties probably has a lot to do with the announcement that scheemie housing is to be built next door. Taking into account that that there is only one road into the area, the scheemies would have to travel through the up market part.
73

Louis Bleriot,

flying over Platinum Point 16/10/2008 15:28:59
Sacre bleu, je regret rien etc.etc. looks like this will be a legacy that our children and grand children will pick up on - Edinburghs first nationalised luxury council apartment blocks for the new millenium renamed off course as....Shellsuit Heights.
74

Mcsnagpile,

16/10/2008 15:37:11
Aye, bring back the fish wifies, and the Westward Ho, a new steamie, and convert yer Pied a terre back tae a single end, an yee can run yer trams tae Auchenshoogle if ye like.
75

Cod,

Leith 16/10/2008 16:09:27
This is Glasgow Harbour Mk II. In fact the whole of Edinburgh is going through "Glasweegification".

George St = wannabee Merchant City

Harvey Nicks/Multrees Walk = wannabee Princes Square

New pubs all Glasgow style

New music venues opening everywhere

Edinburgh now actually has bands

Like Winston in Big Brother. “I belong to Glasgow..”

The city needs it. Badly.
76

fresian,

edinburgh 16/10/2008 16:29:09
You're right Cod (78) the pubs are really becoming Gl;asgow Style these days, first a guy gets shot in the Marmion, then more gunshots at the one in Broomhouse.
77

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 16:50:52
Call me radical, but I would say the money for the trams should have been used to make every taxi and bus in Edinburgh electric powered, thus solving the emissions problem at one stroke. Ok, there might be a need for part of a new power station, and part of the money would have to go for that.
78

Cod,

Leith 16/10/2008 16:52:47
#Fresian

You are SUCH a cow. No milking for you tonight...
79

Cod,

Leith 16/10/2008 16:54:01
#81 Cod - pull his udder one.
80

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 16/10/2008 16:56:33
#71 Trams are expected to carry 250 people of which 70 are seated - less than a double decker bus. Projected frequency is 6 per hour rising to 8 upon completion of Phase 1b. Breakeven per the business case is at 26m passngers per year. This would require every single tram to operate at c.130% of capacity for 19 hours(assuming they run from 5am to midnight) per day on every journey from the Airport to Leith and back again.

Now, does that sound realistic to you?
81

Cod,

Leith 16/10/2008 16:56:55
Shot in The Marmion. How painful.
82

The 'Menace',

Edinburgh, 16/10/2008 18:54:11
re;25,,,Aye!,good 4 you,son!,got 'these' same pals,who said the same,many years ago!,lol..ah'm in the same position as yourself,cooncil-hoose,n,3-4 yr.old car(mines!)no' as shiny,as it used to be,but!,never mind,serves me well!(VW,by the way!),sounding-out these 'Tourist Trams,that'll never go to W/Hailes,Longstone,Niddrie,Currie,when there's always been an excellent transport link to these,n,other outlying areas,surrounding Edinburgh!,Airport-to-just beyond Ocean Terminal??,Waste of City funds,in my eyes!!...
83

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE McCain 16/10/2008 19:07:09
Hey all U squawking fanatical SNP Dudes ..

This is not the time to be dreaming about Independence for Scotland ..

U should be figuring out ways to save, and create JOBS.

Independence will reduce Scotland to a pip-squeak nation and failure.
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Quote:
Liz Cameron, the group's chief executive, said: "The continuing problems in the global financial sector, general slowdown in the international economy and continu