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Life to mean life for worst killers

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Published Date: 27 November 2009
KILLERS could have to spend the rest of their lives behind bars after a landmark ruling by appeal court judges that increased prison terms for murder in Scotland.


Robert Kelly

Five judges ruled the current 12- year minimum sentence often imposed in murder cases was generally too lenient, while the top level of 30 years was too low.

The decision effectively paves the way for "life to mean life" in the worst murder cases.

Knife crime was specifically highlighted by the Court of Criminal Appeal in Edinburgh, headed by the Lord Justice-General Lord Hamilton, the country's senior judge.

Describing it as "a scourge in the Scottish community", he said a minimum of 16 years should generally be imposed for murders involving sharp weapons.

"Sentences which may cause individuals to think more carefully before arming themselves and which reflect public concern at such killings are appropriate," he said.

Child murderers, police killers and people convicted of firearms murders should not be freed for at least 20 years, an endorsement of an earlier view.

The new measures were greeted with applause from the families of victims in two murder cases

Lord Advocate Elish Angiolini was the architect of the changes. As head of the prosecution service in Scotland, she had taken two cases to the appeal court – the murders of Agnes Mechan and Brian Bowie – to argue the original sentences had been unduly lenient.

She also asked the court to issue fresh, general guidelines to sentencing judges, and for a lower rate of discount in murder cases where an accused pleads guilty.

While the Scottish Parliament could have been asked to pass new laws on the sentencing of murderers, it would probably have taken much longer than the process has taken through the courts.

Lord Hamilton, sitting with Lords Reed, Clarke and Mackay and Lady Dorrian, agreed to all the Lord Advocate's requests.

Anyone convicted of murder receives a mandatory life sentence. Judges also have to impose a "punishment part" of the sentence – the period that must be served before an application for parole can be made.

In a 2002 judgment, the appeal court, then headed by Lord Cullen, reduced from 30 to 27 years the punishment part imposed on former Royal Scots corporal Andrew Walker, who shot dead three people in an army payroll robbery.

Following that ruling, judges began to apply a 30-year ceiling and used 12 years as the "norm" in murder cases, going up or down depending on the aggravating or mitigating features of an individual case.

It had been expected that 30 years would be reserved for Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi, the Lockerbie bomber, but he was given 27 years. The judges in his case used 30 years as a maximum but reduced it because of Megrahi's age, then 51, and because he would, as they understood it, be serving his sentence in a foreign country in solitary confinement. In yesterday's judgment, Lord Hamilton said the Prisoners and Criminal Proceedings (Scotland) Act prescribed no minimum or maximum punishment part, merely that it be a specified period, and it could be a period that exceeded the prisoner's likely lifespan.

He said the Walker judgment had not stated in terms that 30 years would be the maximum, but had been interpreted as such.

"In our view, there may well be cases, for example mass murders by terrorist action, for which a punishment part of more than 30 years may, subject to any mitigatory considerations, be appropriate. In so far as Walker and al-Megrahi may suggest that 30 years is a virtual maximum punishment part, that suggestion is disapproved," Lord Hamilton said.

The court endorsed earlier rulings that the murder of a child or a police officer, or one involving a firearm, would attract a punishment part "in the region of 20 years".

Lord Hamilton said the Walker judgment could be read as implying that 12 years was the norm or starting point in most cases of murder. "We doubt whether it was the court's intention to set any such norm," he said.

"In any event, we would not regard 12 years as an appropriate 'starting point' for 'most cases of murder'. A substantial number of murders would justify a starting point of a significantly longer period of years. A punishment part as low as 12 years would not be appropriate unless there were strong mitigatory circumstances, and a punishment part of less than 12 years should not be set in the absence of exceptional circumstances – for example, where the offender is a child."

The judge said the Lord Advocate had emphasised that murders committed with knives, swords and similar weapons were a matter of grave concern. The homicide rate in Scotland was 22 per million, as against 14.6 in England and Wales, and 14 in Northern Ireland. Just under half of the Scottish figure were deaths caused by a pointed weapon.

"We agree that, at the present time, knife crime is a scourge in the Scottish community and that the court should be acting, and be seen to be acting, in a way which discourages the carrying of sharp weapons, the use of which may lead to needless deaths," Lord Hamilton said. "Other than in exceptional circumstances, we would expect punishment parts in cases of that kind to be at least 16 years, and they might be significantly longer depending on the circumstances."

At the moment, a sentencing discount of up to one-third for pleading guilty, depending on the circumstances and how early the plea is made, is offered in all cases in Scotland, but it has been widely seen as too generous for murderers. If someone received 12 years for robbery and had a third taken off for pleading guilty, the eight years would be subject to early-release provisions, meaning the prisoner could be freed at four years. At 12 years, release could have been after six years, so the discount would mean the person had served two years less in jail.

Punishment parts for murder do not carry remission. However, a 12-year punishment part could be reduced by a third if an accused pleads guilty..

Lord Hamilton said that of all the crimes in Scotland, murder was the most heinous and "a special case". He added: "We are not persuaded that the same discount should be allowed from a punishment part as from a determinate sentence of the same length.

"We agree that in murder cases, the maximum discount should be about one-sixth, reducing in some cases to nil. We also see force in there being a limit on the total number of years which can be discounted from a punishment part …this should be set at five years, which, of course, could only be reached in very serious cases."


AT A GLANCE

• The minimum term that murderers should spend in jail will now be 12 years, save for exceptional cases, eg where the offender is a child.

• Terms of more than 30 years can now be handed out, eg for mass murder by terrorists.

• A minimum sentence of at least 16 years should be set for knife murders, in order to tackle the "scourge" of knife crime.

• Child murderers, police killers and people convicted of firearms murders should not be freed for at least 20 years.

&149 The discount for a guilty plea in a murder case is to be reduced from one-third to one-sixth of the sentence.


Case Study: Guilty plea, but 15 years too lenient for 'cold-blooded crime'

AGNES "Nessa" Mechan, a 64-year-old grandmother, disappeared in 2002.

She had worked as a collector for a loans company in Glasgow, and Robert Kelly, 33, was a customer.

She called at his home in Govanhill and he strangled her with cord and robbed her of a handbag and £200 in cash.

He dumped her body under the floorboards of his flat and covered it with soil.

A police search for Mechan at the time of her disappearance found no trace of her.

Her story came into the spotlight again on the BBC2 show Tales From the Edge, which was broadcast in December 2006.

In it, her grandson Daniel, 11, and niece Lesley Anne, 18, appeared in video diaries about their family's search.

After more than four years of "unimaginable anguish and suffering" for Mrs Mechan's family, her body was finally found in January 2007 when Kelly's former partner told a friend what had happened, and the friend contacted the police.

Kelly admitted murdering Mrs Mechan and the sentencing judge, Lord Brailsford, said it a was cold-blooded crime for which he would have imposed a minimum of 20 years but would discount it to 15 years because of the plea of guilty.

The appeal judges ruled that 15 years was unduly lenient. Lord Hamilton said: "We consider an appropriate initial figure for the punishment part would have been 22 years, with a discount of three years for the early plea."


Case Study: Five extra years for horrific 'medieval execution by burning'

BRIAN Bowie, 35, a father of two from Dunfermline, Fife, had been drinking with Bryan Boyle, 20, in the youth's flat, but they argued and Boyle struck him on the head with a bottle then kicked and stamped on his head. He also stabbed him on the leg.

The unconscious Mr Bowie was dragged outside, and Boyle's friend Greig Maddock, 22, arrived on the scene. Paper was stuffed into Mr Bowie's pockets and he was doused with lighter fuel. He was placed on a pyre of pornographic magazines and set alight.

The two men fled and Mr Bowie's moaning attracted passing youngsters who raised the alarm. He died five days later in hospital. He had suffered a fractured skull and full thickness burns to 32 per cent of his body.

Boyle and Maddock were both convicted of murder. Boyle was ordered to serve at least 15 years, and Maddock 12 years, under life sentences.

The appeal court said the burns were the likely major cause of death; the verdicts implied that each accused had known Mr Bowie was alive when they set fire to him. "The circumstances are redolent of the medieval horrors of execution by burning," said Lord Hamilton.

Neither accused had shown any remorse, he added, and the court considered that the sentencing judge, Roger Craik, QC, had failed to give proper weight to the manner of the killing. Periods of 20 years for Boyle and 18 years for Maddock would be substituted.


LIFE SENTENCES ROUND THE WORLD

Indefinite: Argentina, Australia, Austria

100 years: India (maximum)

60 years: Mexico (maximum)

40 years: Philippines (maximum)

25 years : Those convicted of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide at the International Criminal Court (minimum)

21 years: Norway (maximum)

10 years: South Korea (minimum)

None: Holland has no maximum length of sentence, but prisoners can be pardoned by the Monarch.

2,484: Youth offenders serving life without parole in the United States – the only country in the world to hand out indefinite life sentences to minors.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 November 2009 2:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Legal Issues
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/11/2009 00:08:21

I often wondered why the sentence of "life in prison", never meant what is said, why is this terminology used?, afterall surly the one passing the sentence is educated and has a degree.




2

Tracker,

27/11/2009 00:08:32
This is very good news.
3

Ewan Randall,

27/11/2009 01:03:29
Are we not actually talking about the criteria for exceptional circumstance sentencing here?

Is it not still the case that there might be occasions where a twelve year sentence could be applied?
4

,

27/11/2009 01:31:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Evidenced Based Thinking Please,

27/11/2009 02:03:36
#1 Charles,

It because some folk wish to see "compassion" for killers. This apparently now requires mass muderers to be released after serving about 5 weeks for each person killed, so the judges' sentences will be meaningless.
6

Fiona Duigan-McKay,

Dunedin, New Zealand 27/11/2009 02:56:19
Life sentences must also be given to recividist drunk drivers who while driving drunk kill somebody. The sentence must be upgraded from manslaughter to murder.

Fiona
7

Aldi Shopper,

Irvine 27/11/2009 03:25:46
If the SNP Government adopt this then Labour and their wonderful leader Grey will be against it. Drink is killing hundreds every year and making life a misery for thousands but he wants to make cheap political capitol out of suffering.
8

Evidenced Based Thinking Please,

27/11/2009 03:26:56
#6
We do not have a crime known as "manslaughter" in Scotland, that's an English offence. The charge, either in Scotland or England, in the given circumstances would, amost invariabley, be the statutory offence of causing death through dangerous driving, not the common law offense of culpable homicide. Also, I'm uncertain that it is "upgrading" to be charged with murder rather than with culpable homicide.
That notwithstanding it is the sentence which matters, and in that respect we now are given to understand that murderers should be released out of compassion, so perhaps it'd be better to charge a driver-that-kills with "being naughty" and give such recidivist 3 1/2 hours community service.
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

27/11/2009 03:30:53
#1 - There is only one sentence for murder, life imprisonment. This is because life imprisonment replaced the death penalty some years ago.

In practice, people convicted of murder are released on licence after a period of time. The consequence of release on licence is that the convict is still under sentence of imprisonment and may be taken back to prison at any time if he is found to have broken the terms of his licence or to be a danger to the community.

In practice, a body of rules has emerged setting out a tariff of minimum sentences, and people have been getting out after twelve years, which has brought the idea of a life sentence into disrepute and many people have committed murder thinking "what's the worst that can happen - twelve years? I probably won't get caught but if I do I can take the risk. Die you swine, die!"

The judges have brought a little bit of credibility back to the life sentence. Thank goodness for the Lord Advocate for taking this up - she won't be popular with some powerful people because of this - and thank goodness for the judges seeing some sense.

There will be some people beside themselves today with anger at the sheer lack of compassion that they've shown.

There are those who consider that the propensity to murder is a consequence of deep social problems and is is in fact a form of illness to be treated. They will be concerned that this is a vicious attack on people with murdering difficulties who need care and love and treatment and rehabilitation actually, not punishment in a beastly smelly prison where they are brutalised and spoken to harshly and not given the opportunities they require.

And there will be those who will fret that this is a slur on Scotland's reputation for compassion and what will the Swedes think and where will we keep the murderers? That's why people who ought to be spending some months in jail are to be set free and judges are being told by ministers that they mustn't lock people up for ju
10

Fifi la Bonbon,

27/11/2009 03:31:14
And there will be those who will fret that this is a slur on Scotland's reputation for compassion and what will the Swedes think and where will we keep the murderers? That's why people who ought to be spending some months in jail are to be set free and judges are being told by ministers that they mustn't lock people up for just a few months, but rather sentence them to attend "community punishment" which everyone understand to be a scoosh. But that's another story.

Anyway 18 years rather than 12 is a step forward for victims of crime, and if it upsets the compassionate bien pensants, that's fine by me.

I personally think life should mean life, and that nobody who is convicted of murder should ever be freed until they are sixty years of sage, so that if you do a murder at age nineteen you stay behind bars for 41 years, but I'm just not very nice and murderers' mums will hate me.
11

Fifi la Bonbon,

27/11/2009 03:33:59
#7 - no politician was involved in this decision. The Lord Advocate, who was not appointed under a nationalist administration, made the approach to the judges who changed the rules. Please read the story before commenting.
12

Fifi la Bonbon,

27/11/2009 03:34:53
#6 seems to be a foreigner who has a different axe to grind.
13

Graeme,

Guangzhou 27/11/2009 03:36:43
#6. What about recitative old women (and men) who can’t drive?
14

Phil C,

27/11/2009 05:21:54
"Life to mean life for worst killers"

Life should mean death for worst killers.
15

Pocket Dictionary,

27/11/2009 07:02:15

Don't count your chickens yet. Once it's established that the lifer has a "learning disability" - and there's plenty to choose from. The lifer will get out on licence and transfered to the care of a local social work department's Forensic Service. Living in a house in your street. It's already happening, to empty state hospitals and jails.
16

albanman,

Edinburgh 27/11/2009 07:30:16
No.13 Graeme: I thought elderly Chinese men and women rode bicycles.

No.10 Fifi: not all murders are the same. You can't place a murder done in a moment of anger with one that has been thought out. This is why Scots Law has what is termed a 'Crime of Passion' for which the penalty is less severe. However, I do believe that life should mean life.

Having lived in the US for 25 years I saw that the death penalty (a) makes no difference to a murder rate (b) is given to minorities at a higher rate than to white people (c) has been imposed on people later found to be innocent. Capital punishment is not the answer.
17

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 27/11/2009 07:46:19
I'm confused. Longer in prison is seen by the 'Learned' Gentlemen is a deterrant, but death isn't? Bring the rope back for causing (or being involved in) a death where a knife or firearm is used, some rapes and, of course, drug dealing and just watch those crime figures fall.
18

McNasty,

Edinburgh 27/11/2009 08:03:35
In some cases life will have to mean life simply to protect the rest of us. It should also be life for drug dealers as they kill indirectly.
19

Ben Thehoose,

27/11/2009 08:14:23
Forget the death penalty: far too many innocents have been hanged.

Longer sentences are not deterrents as criminals rarely expect to be caught.

Longer sentences do protect the public however.

Parents of feral kids should also be jailed as its their child and their responsibility.
20

Alice Cooper,

27/11/2009 08:41:30
wow judges have woke up and smelt the coffee instead of a high priced call girl
life should be life,youtake a life the courts takes away your freedom for life,no parole or namby pamby social workers wringing hands and getting some parole,when the victims family suffer a life sentence of their own
short of bringing back hanging,life ie till your dead in prison should maybe act as a deterent,instead of getting 15 years and out in 6-7 ,hardly a life sentence is it
21

Aldi Shopper,

Irvine 27/11/2009 08:58:57
11
Fifi la Bonbon

It won't be long before Elmo gets his two pence worth in. He just can't help himself.
22

Boy Wonder,

27/11/2009 09:12:10
"Life" actually means the taxpayer paying for worthless scum for the rest of their lives.
Compassion should be reserved for genuine cases of causing death be accident or even a moment of emotiomal insanity and the killer shows genuine remorse ... otherwise, and there's a lot of them, the rest of them quit the human race they day they took a life.
If you carry a kinife and use it to kill ... then that's malice aforethought ... and scum like that should hang!
Why should we pay pay for them to lounge about in their cells all day, every day?
I repeat ... hang them ... especially the terrorists.
23

Evidenced Based Thinking Please,

27/11/2009 09:14:29
#16

Scotland has no such plea of mitigation called Crime of Passion. Are you confused with Mel Gibson perhaps?
Murder, in Scotland, is a common law offence, defined ony by the prevailing case-law. For many years the exact wording was formulated in a text-book: Macdonald's Criminal Law, 5th ed @ page 89 but Drury v HMA feb2, 2001 chnaged this.
If you are aware of a revision I'd be extra-ordinarily grateful for an update
24

Kate,

Zurich 27/11/2009 09:15:22
Why does it say life to mean life for "worst" killers? Are there some killers less bad than others? What do the victims feel about that, oh sorry, we can't ask them, they're DEAD!

Ridiculous title.
25

Daft Old Git,

27/11/2009 09:26:52
If you have been found guilty of the 'worst of murders' you need to find a simple politician and tell them that one day you will die. You can then be released as a hero
26

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 27/11/2009 09:42:18
#7 - nothing to do with the SNP or Labour. This is sentencing guidelines we're taliking about, within the already existing legal framework. No laws have been changed or will require to be changed. the prescribed sentence is 'life' and all that's happened is that the High Court has revised it's own guidelines.
27

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 27/11/2009 09:47:52
#16 - as #23 says, there's no such thing as a 'crime of passion' nad no such thing as a lesser sentence. Murder is murder. The only difference in sentence may be in the recommendation of the judge, but it will still be 'life.'
28

decent one,

27/11/2009 10:07:59
Seeing as over 90% of prisoners are reoffenders, surely doubling everyone's sentence would halve the court/police costs (very expensive) as they're already in prison.

Also, virtually every sex offender has 'history' , how are they allowed to acquire this ? Society is too lenient !
29

Al Pacino,

27/11/2009 10:31:05
I understand the difference between murder and culpable homicide but if we're talking about murder in isolation, you can't murder someone ' a bit'. You either murder them or you don't. Obviously decisions are made at a higher level of qualification than most of us will ever reach but common sense often appears to be left in the car park.
30

Ben Thehoose,

27/11/2009 10:32:57
Murder is not murder! Do get real!

People are killed for a variety of reasons from accidental to premeditated. I hope someone kills me when I get dottle. That would be a mercy killing. Punishments must fit crimes, and most crimes require first understanding the motive and circumstances.

The US law has degrees of murder for sound reasons.

Some numptys on this forum should be locked up for everyone's good.
31

Ben Thehoose,

27/11/2009 11:19:13
#32 Square.

Someone had to fall for that trap. Making obvious jokes is sooooo immature. Shame it had to be you.
32

Evidenced Based Thinking Please,

27/11/2009 11:31:55
#30
The situation legally, in Scotland is that killing another person is known as homicide. Murder, is a very particular well defined subset.
I would respectfully suggest that some posters might benefit from a better understanding of Scot's law: murder in Scotland is not the same as murder in England, let alone in US jurisdictions. Similarly culpable homicide is not the same as manslaughter. In simple terms, Scotland looks at objective factors and does not employ the English concept of intention. This means that whereas in England an accused can argue "I did not intend to kill this person.." in an attempt to mitgate a unlawful killing to manslaughter, no such mitigation would per se reduce the offence to culpable homicide.
33

Jimmy Two Times,

Trumping justice 27/11/2009 12:07:25
No mention of the so called 'get out of jail free' clause whereby if it can be shown that a given terrorist can fill the coffers of big buisness then such individual shall be released under the guise of 'compassion'.
34

Evidenced Based Thinking Please,

27/11/2009 12:47:25
#36,
I refer you to post #5.
35

Jimmy Two Times,

USA 27/11/2009 13:22:01
My apologies.
36

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/11/2009 13:26:38
They'll just have to fake prostate cancer to get out.
37

El Franko,

27/11/2009 13:40:45
This could mean an appreciable loss of income for the legal system. Letting out murderers after a few years has been quite a lucrative option for them. Past offenders are known to the police, and readily arrested when they do harm to someone else again.



38

Brideun,

Culloden 27/11/2009 14:02:18
The dogs in the street know that hanging for murder is a deterrent, also the view of a huge majority of the population. Why do our elected representatives not take notice of the wishes of those who put them into power? Time for a clean out of the wet set.
39

Brideun,

Culloden. 27/11/2009 14:03:55
When hanging was abolished Robert Service ( poet ) wrote " He who kills and does not pay lives to kill another day!"
40

watcher,

edinburgh 27/11/2009 15:03:52
Hang them. Macaskill wouldn`t agree though.
41

Allan(handofgod137),

27/11/2009 17:18:33
Why a longer tariff for shooting rather than stabbing?
42

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire (or Scotia Baltica) 27/11/2009 17:36:08
The worst killers are put in jail for life. There is a special wing in Porterfield Prison Inverness for them as there is all scottish long term jails. I did once meet a guy that lived there. He was known to my neighbour and a friend of him. It was a crime of passion: this guy had abused his hospitality by seducing his wife and having sex with her while he was WORKING. So he put the knife him where it mattered.

I detest all this tabloid journalism: the owners, the readers, the total piece of shoite that they are!

Have you ever killed anyone? And got away with it so you gloat like Tony Blair. But the instigators are Javier Solane and General Wesley Clark. Who were invited to Edinburgh Conference Centre only last week.

These aren't just killers, they mass murder and will do it again.

I was assaulted by a typical UK yobbo only 2 weeks ago. I'd been up 36 hours looking after my 80 year mother with cancer, had my sister of the train and meanwhile run my own business that employs 20 local people.

I hate the UK. I hate Tories (and quite alot of you are closet ones). I hate the Labour Party for what it's become. Should I see this youth who thought kicking a 50 year old guy to death would impress his girlfriend: he has crossed the line. He is getting a smack and if it kills him, I am a KILLER that should be locked up and the key thrown away. Has the "Scotsman" now sunk lower than the "Sun".
43

Donkey Hote,

27/11/2009 18:08:37
Yok Finney # 45

I'm sorry you got a smack recently, but, if you go around saying out loud, some of the things you post then it was bound to happen and will again until you learn to temper your opinions.
You have found, to your cost, that some people are not reasonable and the slightest, merest of confected provocation is needed for them to react violently. This is Scotland after all, the most violent destination in the developed world.
If Salmond believes that a £40 Fixed Penalty for Assault will deter the type of thugs that you allude to, then Salmond proves that he is deluded. Most murderers are well practised in assault before they graduate to murder, whether, or, not they have been convicted of it before.
44

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 27/11/2009 19:42:24
You don't seem sorry at all. I was on the ground and HAD TO GET UP. The contest was between quite a fit 19 year old and me a 50 year old guy that had been on the go for 36 hours. What saved the day was a tall guy with 4 year old bairn, walking past that turned round and told'm to STOP IT. Then he scampered away.

My first move was to go this man and thank him before I reported the matter to Dingwall Police. But he had gone by then.

An incident like this does restore your faith in humanity. Besides it wasn't much of a punch the yobbo threw, who is ~ 5'10" and wears a Man United red-white strip. His attempt at a kick was even more derisory. But he can run. I know precisely where he lives but this is now a police matter. This is a public forum.
45

Donkey Hote,

27/11/2009 21:10:14
Yok Finney # 47

No point in having a go at me, I didn't dump you on the ground. But, if you ask my opinion 50 year olds, like you, shouldn't get into a "contest" with 19 year olds. I hear Dingwall is quite rough anyway and you should have known better than to get involved like that. I think you let yourself down when you allude to avenging yourself in the terms that you do, "But he can run. I know precisely where he lives."
Leave it to Salmond to sort out your dispute with a £40 Fixed Penalty for Assault. Having said that you might find yourself with one too for getting into a "contest" with a thug in a "Man United," shirt!
46

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 27/11/2009 21:31:23
It's going to court, my man, and it will be more than a £40 fixed penalty. The exception proves the rule, and previously I'd never had any problem at all with Man U supporters. When Dundee United played a double header against them, we drank in the same pubs, socialised and when they beat us 4 - 3 aggregate, we did admit they were the better team. And no hard feelings whatsover. I can't say the same about Rangers and Celtic.

But very glad to have wiped out Celtic. Where's their previous arrogance now. You don't have a Henrik Larssen, you're plain mediocre and useless with it.

There's going to be trouble with the Teddy Bears, but we will beat them. We stuffed the sheep and we will stuff the boyd.
47

david wayne osedach,

San Diego 27/11/2009 22:21:05
One problem is that after 15 or 20 years people forget about the horrific crime that had been committed. The families may be dead. And the killer himself leads an exemplary life in prison.

He will certainly ask for early release. That cannot happen!
48

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 27/11/2009 22:52:48
To return to the headline, most cold blooded killers do spend all of their lifes behind bars. That's why there is this secure facility in scottish prisons. You mean a violent psychopath who'll be permenantly in jail or in Carstairs.

This taboid sort of journalism is beyond condemnation! And the "Scotsman" has sunk to it.

Psycopaths often make successful businessmen or politicians - Tony Blair is an example - that is a useful hate distraction. He's a bit player whereas Javier Solana and General Wesley Clark are the instigators of these arial bombing of civilians 10,000 or them, and gloating in their deeds. It's a different scale of criminality.

It's very carefully considered that a violent criminal can be released and for the genuine human being that HAS reformed, it is more than likely that he won't be treated fairly. There is beaurocracy in everything.

God, that this tabloid journalism and cheap shots never existed; and what sort of media tycoon as they like to call themselve shouldn't be in jail, FOR LIFE !
49

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 27/11/2009 22:56:33
And I'll not pull my punches here. John Roberton - you've got involved: you're demeaning the scottish prison service which is run by alot better men and women than you are.
50

,

27/11/2009 23:53:08
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