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Tom Kitchin

Lib Dems reconsider opposition to independence referendum

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Published Date: 08 October 2009
THE Liberal Democrats are to rethink their policy of opposing a referendum on Scottish independence.
A review of the stance will be carried out by MSP Ross Finnie and debated in private at a special session at the party's conference on October 30 in Dunfermline.

The news was welcomed by the SNP who stand little chance of getting a referendum bil
l through Holyrood without the support of another major party.

The support of the Lib Dems' 16 MSPs would give the SNP a combined voting strength of 63 – just two votes short of a majority.

A spokesman for Alex Salmond said: "The Liberal Democrats' UK conference took place in a seaside resort and it's very clear that their position on a referendum is built on shifting sands.

"This indication of another possible change in the Lib Dem policy towards supporting a referendum is extremely welcome."

The Lib Dem UK conference in Bournemouth last month heard one activist, Kevin Lang, of Edinburgh North and Leith, call for the party to allow a referendum, saying it could settle an issue "haunting" Scottish politics.

Delegates to the Dunfermline conference have been told by organisers: "The session will give members the opportunity to consider the issues and arguments around the SNP's current proposals for an independence referendum.

"This work is in support of a wider consultation of members' views being co-ordinated by Ross Finnie MSP at the request of (party leader) Tavish Scott."

A party spokeswoman said today: "Tavish always wants to hear what party members on the ground have to say.

"We think this is the best forum to start marshalling the arguments against independence and to let everyone have their say."



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1

Brianwci,

08/10/2009 15:33:40
A very welcome but not unexpected development.

I repeat with even more confidence what I've been saying all year now, the Referendum will take place.

It will be a very brave MSP who votes against it then puts him/herself up to the electorate a few months later.

2

albahomeland,

08/10/2009 15:51:24
"The support of the Lib Dems' 16 MSPs would give the SNP a combined voting strength of 63 just two votes short of a majority."

Plus the two Greens and Margo making a total of 66. A majority!
3

The Tin Man,

08/10/2009 16:14:55
#3

Margo is currently against the referendum, believe it or not.
4

The Master,

08/10/2009 16:19:02
#2 albahomeland: but, as the Tin Man has already pointed out, Margo's made it quite clear that she'll vote against the referendum because it's not appropriate at this time of economic dislocation.

Quite why the Lib Dums are even considering this rigged and meaningless complete nonsense of a "consultative" question is another matter.

Everyone knows that, even if a "yes" vote were achieved, the outcome would soon be rubbished, what with all the confusing and nebulous talk about "negotiations".

The Master calls on the Lib Dems to see sense and to see it now before the Nats drag them into making complete fools of themselves!
5

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 16:23:28
Can anyone explain how the referendum is rigged
6

Ben Thehoose,

08/10/2009 16:27:48
#6 It's rigged if the logical and best solution to union-federation-is missed out. Why do you think the federal option is being missed out? Because it threatens the Brigadoonistas Master Plan!
7

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 16:35:04
The bill has not come before parliament yet so we don't know what the question/s will be. The SNP has said the referendum could be multi option so again I ask How is the referendum rigged?
8

The Master,

08/10/2009 16:35:37
#5: 1. It's to be held on an emotive day.
2. The question is incomprehensible: talk of "opening negotiations" could mean anything.

In short, the Nats are intent on rigging this!
9

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 16:39:07
I've just written that we don't yet know exactly what the questions will be so how is the question incomprehensible. I don't think that on such an important issue people will take any notice of the day.
10

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 16:40:27
talk of "opening negotiations" could mean anything.
Such as ?
11

The Master,

08/10/2009 16:45:10
#10: the question has to be "consultative" to be within the powers of the SP, so it's necessarily going to be soft and woolly.

#11: such as: can we change our minds half way through and stop the Nats' kamakaze mission (even although we know that the fanatics won't need much of an excuse once they've got the bit between the teeth!)
12

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 17:03:30
#11

Can you put your second point into comprehensible english please.
If you consider proposed questions are rigged what would your questions be, or would you prefer the SNP were like the labour Gov't and abandon a promised referendum on the spurious grounds that circumstances had changed.
13

veritas1,

clacks 08/10/2009 17:08:52
Ah so possible rethink on the last rethink.

Is int it priceless to read unionists warning about a rigged referendum!

You couldn't make that up.
14

The Master,

08/10/2009 17:14:24
#12: yes please: I would like the Nats to abandon any attempt at asking a referendum question, if only for the reason that they do not have the powers required to ask a simple "separation: yes or no" type question. Only Westminster can ask a clear question so, in the interests of democracy, this should be left to them, if they're so minded.

#13: if the question's not rigged, then how come it produces consistently higher "yes" ratings whenever it's used in opinion polls?
15

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 17:45:03
#14 at#13
Could be that it's what the people want
16

The Master,

08/10/2009 17:54:01
#16: could be that they think the question would mean chatting about separation and nothing more than that, but we both know that's completely false.
17

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 18:08:34
#17
yes I would say that they think that it would mean chatting about separation and nothing more is completely false
18

The Master,

08/10/2009 18:19:31
#18: how do you explain the opinion poll ratings in the Nats' favour every time their preferred question is asked, then?
19

jockstrap,

Cyprus 08/10/2009 18:21:23
Because they don't think that the question asked just means chatting etc. Read my previous answer properly
20

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 08/10/2009 19:52:14
What a surprise from the Lib/Dems, i mean who would have thought?

The 'yes' vote will be substantially increased with the thought of the Tories in power...great!

The union under the home counties Tories or Scotland independent...tempting and will be a very very close vote.
21

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 08/10/2009 19:53:34
Polls consistently show that people in Scotland will be more inclined to vote yes if there are Tories coming into power....nightmare for Labour...campaing against a yes and they are backing the Tories in London...hooo harrr!
22

Tom R,

08/10/2009 20:52:36
I will be pleasantly surprised if the Lib Dems change their policy on a referendum at this stage.

I think they will foolishly stand their ground and try to explain to the electorate the validity of their illiberal and undemocratic policy.

I am afraid it will require as a minimum a good kicking by the electorate in the 2010 Westminster GE to have any chance of altering their stance.

Indeed it make take until they are thouroughly humiliated in the 2011 Holyrood election before they guarantee supporting a referendum-of course, by that stage, they will probably be too small a party for it to matter that much what they think.

23

Invictager,

08/10/2009 22:42:57
How could anyone be surprised if the Lib Dems back the policy. They are the party of "whatever you want me to be" after all.
In the South they pretend to be tories,in the North thay are socialists and now in Scotland they are nationalists.
I would rather cut of my hand than use it to put a cross in the box for these bums.
24

Alan B,

09/10/2009 00:58:27
The libs will have to support a referendum with a dev max option if they want more powers for the scottish parliament.

They know themselves that labour and the tories have taken them for ride with the joke that was calman and that labour and the tories are not even willing to implement the very weak recommendations calman came up with despite earlier promises.

The libs have had a very bruising learning experience that simply you cannot trust labour or the tories and both with lie to you to achieve their own desired outcome.

 

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