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Published Date: 25 January 2008
ISRAEL wants to cut its links with the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip after militants blasted open the territory's border with Egypt in defiance of an Israeli blockade.
Matan Vilnai, Israel's deputy defence minister, said yesterday that Israel wanted to wash its hands of Gaza altogether by handing over supply of electricity, water and medicine to others. An Israeli security official said Egypt should take over responsibility.

"We need to understand that when Gaza is open to the other side (Egypt], we lose responsibility for it. So we want to disconnect from it," Mr Vilnai told Army Radio.

Yesterday Egyptian border guards steered huge crowds of Palestinians as they continued to stream from Gaza to Egypt.

Egyptian officials said the border would eventually "return to normal," and Egyptian police prevented Gazans from moving deeper into Egypt.

Gazans had hoped the temporary border opening would become permanent.

Israel has said since the 2005 pull-out that it should not be considered an occupying power in Gaza. But it has maintained control of Gaza's northern and eastern border crossings and its airspace and coastal waters.

The blockade Israel has imposed on the Strip since the Hamas takeover became almost complete a week ago after rocket attacks against southern Israel.

Yossi Alpher, former director of the Jaffee Centre for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv, said Mr Vilnai's statement was more than his own personal views. "This reflects the (Israeli] government's wishful thinking" he said.

He said severing all Israel's links would depend on Egyptian readiness to leave the border open and "would take a long time even if Egypt was willing to take Gaza off Israel's hands."

Egyptian officials angrily dismissed Mr Vilnai's proposal. "This is a wrong assumption," said Hossam Zaki, the spokesman for Egypt's foreign ministry. "The current situation is only an exception and for temporary reasons. The border will eventually go back to normal."

Hamas has used the breach – carefully planned, with militants weakening the metal wall with blow torches about a month ago – to push its demand for reopening the border passages, this time with Hamas involvement. Such an arrangement would in effect end the international sanctions against the Islamic militants.

Taher Nunu, a Hamas government spokesman, suggested yesterday that Hamas would seek a future role on the Gaza-Egypt border. "An open border like this has no logic," he said. "We are studying the mechanism of having an official crossing point."

However, it's not clear whether Egypt will acquiesce. The Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, has been under intense public pressure at home to alleviate the suffering of Gazans under blockade. However, Egypt would likely be reluctant to have an open border with a territory ruled by Islamic militants.

Mr Vilnai's proposal goes against a cardinal principle that has underpinned past Palestinian-Israeli negotiations, namely that the West Bank and Gaza be treated as one territorial unit. The de facto division between the territories was accentuated when Hamas took over the Strip in June, with the moderate Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, forming a new government responsible for the West Bank.

Jamil Majdalawi, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council from Gaza City, said Mr Vilnai's proposal aimed at "making permanent the division between the West Bank and Gaza Strip."

"This destroys the unity of the Palestinian people," he said.

The Israeli defence minister, Ehud Barak, said in an interview yesterday that Israel was still considering a large-scale military operation to counter rockets from Gaza.

"Probably we will find ourselves there. We are not rushing to reconquer Gaza but will not remove any option from the table when it comes to our citizens' security," he said.

PLEASE KEEP BORDER OPEN

GAZANS say they want their new-found freedom to continue.

"For God's sake, why don't (the Egyptians] keep allowing us to pass through?" Mohammed Abu Amra, a Palestinian crossing the border on crutches, said. "Everyone is rushing into Egypt before they seal it off."

In the past two days, Gazans in Egypt have stocked up on the likes of cigarettes, cement and fuel. In response, Israel stopped emergency shipments of diesel fuel, arguing Gazans could get supplies from Egypt.

Cross-border cargo shipments have picked up, using the back-to-back system. Trucks and donkey carts pull up to the Egyptian side and the goods are unloaded and carried across to Gaza, to be put on waiting trucks.

"We just want freedom," said Adel Tildani as he crossed to Egypt. "I don't need to buy anything. Freedom is more important."

The full article contains 756 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 January 2008 12:46 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Middle East conflict
 
1

,

25/01/2008 00:06:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
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2

American,

25/01/2008 00:13:50
"Israel wanted to wash its hands of Gaza altogether"--what the heck took you so long israel? Let egypt deal with the palestinians. Maybe they'll get the daily missiles and the pc police after them.
3

American,

25/01/2008 00:17:00
Why is it ok for egypt to have walls, but not israel (especially considering all the palestinian homicide bombers and rockets being blasted at israel).
4

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 00:35:58
Nobody would mind walls around Israel, as long as they stop the genocide in Palestine
5

,

25/01/2008 00:43:09
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6

57Nomad,

california 25/01/2008 00:55:54
#4 Roberta burns

roberta said:

"Nobody would mind walls around Israel, as long as they stop the genocide in Palestine"

Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Israelis are not practicing genocide in Palestine. Look around. Do you see Palestinians? Sure you do. If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead.
7

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 01:39:03
mubarak is the bought creature of america this move is a typical product of the # new order in the middle east #delusional claptrap as envisioned by AIPAC bought war criminals in the septic estalishment####### its stupid and dangerous but what else can you expect from corrupted politians dancing to the zionist drum
8

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 02:01:05
nomad wandering aimless on gaza looking for a new pair of eyes the ones hes got cant focus on landtheft lebensraum inhumanity(he sees no inhumanity in collective punishment slaughtering children from helicopters hi tech baby killing )no these he feels are proportial acts to preserve this entity from its inevitable demise the world that you cant bribe or corrupt the world of the decent people cant abide zionism in their very stomachs
9

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 02:32:08
The genocide being committed in Palestine is being committed by the Palestinians. By not giving them the aid that was given to them, and spending it on weapons to attack Israel with is the genocide.
Palestinians kill each other...and it means nothing to them to throw someone off a roof.
If they would stop sending those rockets into Israel, there would be no punishment.
Let the Arabs take care of the Arabs..

bitfree.. you have to be a troll..and by the way .. hate permeates every post of yours. No one slaughters children, just the Arabs hiding behind them are responsible. You sound just like them. It's every body elses fault. They have to take responsible for themselves.
AND STOP SENDING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL.
10

,

25/01/2008 03:48:15
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11

The Pict.,

canada 25/01/2008 03:58:17
# 9 Lynne. Why don't you give the land that you've stolen from the Palestinians back to them. You keep them living less than pigs in filthy conditions in THEIR own country. Don't forget the first TERRORIST ACT was committed in Egypt by the blowing up of the King David hotel by your ZIONISTS one of whom you made prime minister of Israel --- Menachen Began. Don't forget that Israel has all the lastest American F 16's bulldozers, cluster bombs etc. which you use to slaughter innocent women,men and children because the Palestinians have nothing in comparison.

Who gave you the right to steal their land and drive thousands of peaceful Palestinians FROM of THEIR land and then refuse to let them come back?
GIVE THE THE STOLEN LAND BACK. YOU DON'T FOOL ANYBODY.
12

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 04:00:15
apoligies should have read ideologies not race its zionists i despise not hebrews
13

,

25/01/2008 05:35:51
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14

Lynne,

USA.. 25/01/2008 05:37:16
that was for #11...YOU DON'T FOOL ANYONE with your repetion of lies.
15

Laurie A.,

B.C., Canada 25/01/2008 05:54:43
Israel will be darned if they do and darned if they don't so they may as well totally divest themselves from Gaza. Close off all entrances from Israel to Gaza, no produce from Gaza enters Israel or any products from elsewhere go into Gaza, except through Egypt. Supply no electricity or fuel, no water supplies, no jobs in Israel and no medical care in Israel. Let the U.N.W.R.A and other care agencies and whatever enter Gaza via Egypt. No passage from the West Bank through Israel to Gaza, let them go through Jordan and Egypt. This will give the whiners a little less to vent their biases over.

16

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 05:55:27
6
57Nomad,

"Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Israelis are not practicing genocide in Palestine. Look around. Do you see Palestinians? Sure you do. If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."

--So, in your opinion, there was no genocide in 30/40's Europe? I await Daithe (alt?), Lynne and Tikun to be on you like poop on velcro for being a "denier".

Lynne at 9

Mirror, Lynne, Mirror!

_______________

So, ze final solution is in progress, ja? The Israelis have managed to divide Palestine and are now working to make Gaza an annex to Egypt.
17

,

25/01/2008 06:54:02
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18

Ken Mare,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 08:59:54
Its comical to see the number of posts from America whenever there's a Palestine/Israel news story published. Are they really regular readers of The Scotsman/EEN? What's the reason for this - 'Megaphone' perhaps? Doh ! Open your eyes people. Take those blinkers aff.
19

lielayer,

25/01/2008 09:33:59
ISRAEL OWES HUMANITARIAN OBLIGATIONS TO GAZA RESIDENTS BECAUSE OF CONTINUED CONTROL

Israel has not relinquished control over Gaza but rather removed some elements of control while tightening other significant controls. Far from improving the economy and welfare of Gaza residents, Israeli actions since September 2005—including severe restrictions on the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza and an economic stronghold on the funding of civil services—have contributed to an economic and humanitarian crisis in Gaza not seen in the 38 years of Israeli control that preceded the withdrawal of permanent ground troops.

Israel continues to owe legal obligations to residents of Gaza in the significant areas in which their lives are subject to and affected by Israeli control. That responsibility exists under human rights law, Israeli law, and the international law of belligerent occupation, primarily the Hague Regulations of 1907 and the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949. Israel is bound to respect the rights of Gaza residents in its control of Gaza's borders, population registry, tax system, and other areas, and it also owes positive duties to permit and to facilitate the proper functioning of civilian institutions in Gaza, pursuant to international humanitarian law.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmfaff/363/363we13.htm
20

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 12:18:53
returnd to thread to find some posts aknowledged deleted others simply VANANUd any one who read them will know i NEVER post rascist or gratuitously offensive contributions--- rent a mob american trolls it seems cannot just have one gagged but completely dissapeared GROW A SPINE scotsman editors but until you do i will find a compliment in the fact that corporal jones's old refrain is proven 100% correct
21

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 12:24:05
lielayer..as long as Hamas is launching rokets into Israel, Israel owes it NOTHING, AND as soon as the Arabs learn to take care of thmselves, and other countries supply them with those necessities, Israel can wipe their hands of them totally.
22

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 12:32:32
Finnking...nothing to say? Can't disprove the point?
YOU look into a mirror. I just spoke the truth.
23

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 12:34:52
the zionists will consider this a great victory i am sure but britfree will now withdraw from the board scotsman editors should be ashamed of the supine surrender to orchestrated pressure but no-one should be suprised someone with a camelon address can have less free speech than lynne from usa
24

Findlay Thompson,

25/01/2008 12:52:07
Lynne, USA.

I had a dream the other night...it was relating to the onset of WWIII. The war was brought on by a group of people who made up 0.0973% of the world poulation.

One tiny group of people responsible for the end of humanity.

Scary isn't it!
25

william c,

Blantyre 25/01/2008 13:01:54
Am I missing something, humanitarian crisis in Gaza?
thousands of Gazans cross Egypt border to BUY supplies?
Egyptians raise prices to Make profit?
Where is the Money coming from? also do the Egyptian's not have a right to their Country without invading hoards?
Hamas and the Gazans need to take responsibility for their own actions, all Islamic Groups have no respect for other nations or groups and believe hey can kill to get what they want. Fortunately Israel have leadership that says we will protect our people. Egypt
will wake up and say the same.
26

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 13:19:13
#24 Findlay

So you blame women for being raped and Israel for being attacked.

Facinating 'logic'
27

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 13:23:28
An elderly Jewish man is sitting on a park bench reading britfee's message board posts.
His best friend walks by, sees the screen, and stops---in shock,"What are you doing reading that trash?" he says. "You should be reading the Jewish Journal!
"The elderly man replies, "The Jewish Journal has stories about inter-marriage, anti-Semitism, problems in Israel -- all kinds of troubles of the Jewish people.
I like to read about good news.

britfree's message board posts all say
the Jews/Zionists control the politicians...
the Jews/Zionists control the banks...
the Jews/Zionists control the press...
the Jews/Zionists control Hollywood...

Better to read nothing but good news !!!!
28

Reading Public 1,

Wisc 25/01/2008 13:35:59
Why don't they give it to the Palestinians?
29

Findlay Thompson,

25/01/2008 13:37:13
#26

Tikun,

I speak Cantonese, do you speak Mandarin? I would dearly like to learn and understand your language!
30

Findlay Thompson,

25/01/2008 13:38:26
Tikun

Your frank and honest post #27 is a real eye-opener. Thanks for sharing with us your wisdom!
31

,

25/01/2008 13:42:11
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32

RCI,

Lanarkshire 25/01/2008 13:53:08
The existance of Israel is owed to a tenuous 2000 year old claim to the lands between the Sinai and the Euphrates. This claim was given life in the 20th Century thanks to inept British polititians like Balfour with Chrisian Zionist visions of Holy Land Crusades. The palestinian population has since this time been sidelined at every turn by duplicitous agreements, zionist terrorism, illegal occupations of land ( despite UN protests ) and indifference by Arab neighbours. In the present, Israeli jets and tanks, attack Gaza and the West Bank with casual indifference to innocent lives. Israeli soldiers treat palestinians as second class citizens and visit atrocities on them without recourse by the international community. Palestinian terrorists/freedom fighters attack Israeli targets in retaliation. A vicious circle has ensued with innocent men women and children being killed and maimed on both sides of the divide.
The Israeli policy of blockading Gaza does nothing to stop attacks but emboldens the cause of Hamas and takes basic necessities from the mouths of children.
Israel is given free rein by USA, Britain and the UN to commit grievous acts against the poor and the dispossessed.
Israel also showed its shameful indifference to life when they cynically dropped vast numbers of cluster munitions in South Lebanon as a last act of an inept attack.
Evil begets evil and there are few clean hands in todays world.
33

,

25/01/2008 14:00:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
34

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 14:02:07
Britfree

So you learned to say Zionist because the Scotsman editorial board won't delete your racism that way.
So?

". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.

"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.

Martin Luther King Jr.

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/ml_king.html
35

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 14:05:28
#32

Funny how you lambaste Israel for a legal act of war (whether you approve or not) and yet ignore the disregard for humanity of the War Crimes committed by Hezbollah and Hamas when they intentionally shoot missiles at Israeli cities.

Funny how you ignore the fact that Jews have lived in their land in an unbroken chain for those entore 2,000 years you disparingly spoke of.

Funny how you ignore the fact that the Arabs were given 80% of the Jewish National Home by those 'inept British polititians' you spoke of.

Actually
Not funny at all
36

britfree,

britfree 25/01/2008 14:19:50
you yourself asscribed the use of the J word to me you typed your spittle flecked nonsense through the selfsame software as i have to use to enter a comment no tikun the reason i dont conflate the two is idont want to give succour to the undoubted anti-semites out there who ascribe all the evil deeds of zionism to judaism
37

Ken Mare,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 14:26:18
Tikun you moron.

Not all people of the Jewish faith are zionist.
38

RCI,

Lanarkshire 25/01/2008 14:29:27
#35

Hezbollah and Hamas are organisations that have commited
crimes against Israeli's. On the flip side, Israeli has committed crimes against Palestinians. They all have blood on their hands. As I stated, it is a vicious circle which does no-one any good.

I do not ignore the fact that jews and palestinians lived peacefullt together for millenia. It is mostly
20th century zionist in-comers that have stirred the
situation. Palestinians initially fought in the protection of their homes which were being taken over by people with a vision of one people ( the Jews ) to the exclusion of all others.

There never was a Jewish National Homeland. It was an aspiration.

Tikun, I have noticed from your posts that you have said nothing constructive. All your posts have been of a retaliatory nature.

Have you consider a job in the Knesset.



39

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 14:43:00
#37

Perhaps if you were a little less of a microcephalic natterjjack, you would know that, while there is a micro percentage of Jews that do not believe that the State of Israel should exist, 99.9% do.
The Majority of Christians are Zionists as well, in that they too believe that Jews deserve their own homeland as much as any other peoples.
And even Muslims, that care more about the Koran (which specifies Israel as the land of the Jews) than stealing land, are Zionists.
40

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 14:50:00
#38

That yo spew propoganda and pretend it to be truth is your own issue, not mine.
That you believe you lies to be constructive is you right, but hardly true.

While you m,ay object to Israel's use of Cluster Munitions, the fact is that they are a legal means of waging war, a war started by Hezbollah when it crossed the international border and killed and kidnapped Israeli troops - As the UN stated in Resolution 1709

Your attempt to tar Israel with the brush of the War Crimes committed by the Palestinians on an ongoing basis is simple and false. Israeli reposnses to Palestinian acts are no more a 'cycle' than police response to criminals. No crimes, no police respose. No acts of terror, no Israeli response.

In fact, as a gesture of good faith and to end people like you babbling about 'the cycle', Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza and turned it over to the Palestinians, who responded to this act of good will by promptly using the territory as a base to launch even more War Crimes.

As to your contention pretendign as fact that there never was a Jewish homeland, the area called Palestine was referred to as the Jewish Homeland by Jews for centuries, as well as their Arab conquerers.
In fact, before 1963, when people used the term 'Palestinians', they referred to the indigenous Jewish populace. The local Arabs were referred to as 'Arabs' as Arab nationalism is a 20th century phenomena.

You seem to write absent any real knowledge of the history or the facts, merely the propogada you glean from the daily media.
Perhaps a little more knowledge would help.

41

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 15:05:55
again tikun sprays the monitor lips moving no doubt probably greatly consoled by support from the religeous right in scepticland RAPTURE lol ---what part of rational humanity subscribes to that story go on guesstimate its probably 99.9% hahahaha
42

lielayer,

25/01/2008 15:06:36
40
Tikun

Israel's racist rabbis say killing Palestinian innocents is kosher.

http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/uavnery100.htm
43

RCI,

Lanarkshire 25/01/2008 15:13:30
#40

When commenting on the use of cluster munitions, I was not disputing the legal nature of their use. I was disputing the moral use of a weapon which indiscriminately maims and kills and is a scourge on the innocent. Why not throw a little legal depleted uranium into the mix for good measure also.

I have no love of Hezbollah. There actions are reprehensible but I would say that they would disregard UN resolutions with equal contempt that Israel has done since its creation.

Also, I would hardly describe Israel and Palestinian as police to criminal.

I think your views may be a tad one-sided. Just a bit
like the fluff reported by the likes of FOX, CNN etc.





44

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 15:14:48
#42 Lie Liar

That you can find one or two crazy Jews who will say one thing is proof only of your desperation.

Now try to see if you can count the millions of statements from the Palestinians talking about how great it is to kill Jews.

Try looking up childrens television first and count just those.

That you need to spread such lies is just more proof of how weak your cause is
45

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 15:23:37
#43

Agaan, YOU are free to believe that Cluster Munitions, grendades, tanks, or rifles are immoral.
The world has outlawed weapons and forms of attacks that civilized humanity agrees are imorral.
So again, YOUR morality is just that, but it is certainly one sided.

As to your slander oif Israel and UN resolutions, the old lie is still alive I see. Since General Assembly resolutions are just beauty contests, with no binding authority, Israel cannot be in violation of them any more than they are in violation of your personal morality on cluster munitions. THe General Assembly Resoltutions that people love to parade always have at least two parties that are to conform. So to pretend Israel is in violation of a Resolution that also demands the Arabs states to allow Israel to 'live in an atmosphere free from harm and the threat of harm' while raining missiles down on her cities is the height of hypocricy.

Lastly, you are free to express your sympathies for the Palewstinians and their cause ad nasuem, but not their deeds. The analogy is imperfect, but very close.
There are oppressed and occupied peoples all over this planet. But the Tibettans do not blow up Chinese restaurants. The Maori do not shoot pregnant New Zealanders. The Cherokee do not shoot missiles at Phoenix or Tuscon.
These actions are War Crimes, plain and War Crimes simple. The response by Israel to these War Crimes is analogous to actions taken by police in response to Crimes.

That you need to demean each comment I make and add another piece of pop propoganda shows that what I stated earlier is true.
A little more knowledge and a little less pop media would do you a world of good - whether I agree with your conclusions or not.
46

,

25/01/2008 15:28:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

we the people,

25/01/2008 15:40:33
the palestinians have a moral right to resist the apartheid occupation. To have a moral right to x is to have a moral right to the only way to pursue x. In the absence of the sophisticated military technology israel gets from the u.s and others, this means home made rockets and suicide bombs.would that the israeli government (as distinct from the israeli people) had any interest in peace or justice. it may be worth pursuing a distinction between the zionism that founded the israeli state and present day neo-zionism which pursues the agenda of social and cultural genocide against their 'neighbours'. Always remember - if the great judaic injunction to 'love your neighbour' has any meaning for israelis it means this: love the palestinian!
X
48

Biker,

Ayr 25/01/2008 15:41:56
Tikun
I doubt that anyone now believes that the Isreali / Palastinian fight is either just, fair, or even played from a level playing field.
The Isrealis are funded, armed and trained by the US with the best and most effective of equipment. The Palestinians however are armed by anyone able to supply the arms. Do you consider the 1 Palastinian rocket is worth the retaliation of such proportions? Do you consider almost starving a population of food, medicines and aid is just? Do you consider what happened at Sabra and Chatila camps to be the act of a fair minded society? Do you consider the treatment of Mordici Vannunu to be correct? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, them perhaps you need to think again.
In principal I agree with RCI, but feel the international comunity should now step in and attempt to help heal the growing rift.
49

RCI,

Lanarkshire 25/01/2008 15:46:31
#45

Your analogy of occupied peoples is interesting.

Are there enough Cherokee left to mount such an operation. Maybe they could appeal to the UN. Under the auspices of the USA being the land of their fathers for 2000 years, I think a precident has been set in the Holy Land for a return of their lands and hunting grounds.
They may have an equal case for War Crimes against the USA for genocide. Not to forget the Animal Rights Lobby. That was a lot of buffalo that died.
50

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 25/01/2008 16:06:32
#39 Tikun

"there is a micro percentage of Jews that do not believe that the State of Israel should exist"

I very much doubt it's a micro percentage. I just googled "jews against zionism" and it gives me 10% of the hits of "jews for zionism".
51

Findlay Thompson,

25/01/2008 16:08:58
#31

Tikun, please don't resort to insults. I used to hold you in high esteem till you decided to pen this trash.

Your comments are indefencible!

52

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 16:19:29
iam deeply sorry to have to dissagree with we the people there was no great nobility involved in the original land theft a quick look through the journals of ben gurion would soon shine an educatioal light on the rascist hatred the askenazis held towards rightful owners of the land of PALESTINE even then the enormity of the crime was begining to induce that psyhosis of denial we see in the above postings a bit like gollum covincing hiself the ring was his even though he knew he had murdered for it
53

57Nomad,

california 25/01/2008 16:21:02
#16 Finnking

Hey Fins, hows it going?:

"Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Israelis are not practicing genocide in Palestine. Look around. Do you see Palestinians? Sure you do. If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."

--So, in your opinion, there was no genocide in 30/40's Europe?"

How do you conclude that from my comments? Had the Nazi's won the war or even held out for another year, they would have exterminated all of the European Jews. They had the intention but lacked the means.

Now lets look at the current situation. The Jews do have the means to exterminate the Palestinians, instead they are supplying them with electricity. So, as I said in #6, if the Israels were intent on wiping out the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any Palestinians. Comprende, muchacho?
54

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 16:21:04
22, Lynne

"Finnking...nothing to say? Can't disprove the point?
YOU look into a mirror. I just spoke the truth."

Did you? Let's see.... you said at 9:

"The genocide being committed in Palestine is being committed by the Palestinians."

---Wiki dictionery: "Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, religious or national group." and therefore group A cannot perform genocide on group A.

--So, a)It's not a genocide and b) it's absurd. Interestingly, I'm sure the Nazis said the same about the folk in the Warsaw Ghetto. Mirror, Lynne, mirror.

We continue:

"By not giving them the aid that was given to them, and spending it on weapons to attack Israel with is the genocide."

---Mmmm. By "Aid" I can only assume you don't mean the type of aid that the US gives to Israel ($3b per year) for weapons, so "aid" can be food and fuel or raw currency. Well, the food and fuel was stopped from going into Gaza by the Israelis and you mention "weapons" so you must be talking about money. Tell me, Lynne, what is the price differential between a hand held rocket launcher and an Apache helicopter? $1b or so? So, assuming that the money gets into Gaza (no proof, but...) a tiny fraction could be spend on rocket weapons. Tell me, out of all the "aid" that the US gives Israel, what percentage is spent of weapons? Mirror, Lynne, mirror.

Cont.....
55

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 16:21:32
Lynne cont.....

"Palestinians kill each other...and it means nothing to them to throw someone off a roof."

---That's called racism, Lynne but that's your business, not mine. However, so, no Israeli are in jail for murdering other Israelis? Can I not also state that "it means nothing for the Israelis to kill people by rockets"? Surely, you agree that it would be logical to be able to say that based upon your comment? Mirror, Lynne,mirror.

"If they would stop sending those rockets into Israel, there would be no punishment."

--Ah! So, they ARE being punished! So, here is the very foundation of your racism: you ASSUME that Israel is a position of moral authority. Let's check: "If Israel would stop stealing land, killing politicians and starving folk, there would be no punishment." You see, Lynne? the mirror, Lynne, the mirror.

"Let the Arabs take care of the Arabs.."

--I assume you are totally oblivious to the racism inherent in that. Imagine if someone said during the Holocaust, "Let the Jews take care of the Jews", Lynne? Mirror, lynne, mirror.

"bitfree.. you have to be a troll..and by the way .. hate permeates every post of yours."

--and yours, lynne, and yours. Mirror.
56

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 16:21:53
Lynne cont....

"No one slaughters children, just the Arabs hiding behind them are responsible."

--Aha? So the IDF NEVER EVER use kids as human shields, huh? Mirror.

"You sound just like them. It's every body elses fault."

---Well, you seem to blame the Palestinians and the 'arabs' for everything. Mirror!

You asked if I had nothing to say: I do and I said it. Thanks for the invite.
You claimed that I can't disprove the point and I did.

Then yuo say, " I just spoke the truth."

No, Lynne, you didn't.
57

Findlay Thompson,

Tel Aviv 25/01/2008 16:22:58
Tikun

Your posting

"With an IQ above room temperature, you would understand.

You blame Israel for being attacked by Arabs and then claim that its Israel that would start WWIII, not the genocidal Arab states and their desires to 'drive the Jews into the sea' (By the way, those are THEIR DIRECT WORDS).

Similar to blaming women for getting raped.

Your hate makes you blind to logic."


Can you please inform me when I made any comment regarding the middle east in connection with this story.

PS. Are you an Islamic extremist who's sole intention is to anger fellow posters to the point where they don't give a damn for the Jews who reside in the middle east?
58

57Nomad,

california` 25/01/2008 16:24:54
#17 guga

guga said:

"funded by the yanks, are imposing collective punishment on the people in Gaza. This is a total breach of international law."

Would you say that the practice of bombing German civilians during WWII was imposing collective punishment and a breach of international law?
59

Thomas Paine,

25/01/2008 16:28:12
"Everyone is rushing into Egypt before they seal it off." Just replace Egypt with west Germany and it's all post war era over! Amazing is the different and at the same time astonishingly similar aspects of fascism!!
60

57Nomad,

california` 25/01/2008 16:31:45
#55 Finnking

Finnking said:

""Palestinians kill each other...and it means nothing to them to throw someone off a roof."
---That's called racism, Lynne but that's your business, not mine."

No, Fins, it isn't anything of the kind. That this unsavory 'roof tossing' business took place in the recent Hamas/Fatah unpleasantness is a matter of public record. Referencing it, as Lynne did, is not racist in any way.
61

,

25/01/2008 16:32:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 16:37:26
Nomad

"Palestinians kill each other...and it means nothing to them to throw someone off a roof."

That is racist, Nomad. Deal with it.

Do a test: change the 'race' and the method: "Jews kill each other...and it means nothing to them to shoot people."--If someone said that, I would denounce them as racist.

Stick up for your wee and ever dwindling virtual harem, Nomad. You're only fooling the fools.

63

57Nomad,

california 25/01/2008 16:49:46
#61 Finnking

#61 Finnking said:

"Your comment about genocide was an absurdity and you know it."

Finns, we have been over this many times. When you say something is an absurdity you must A. Reference the passage, and B. provide an analysis to substantiate your accusation. You have done neither, and once again proved that you are an abrasive loudmouth.

Then this:

"misogynistic beliefs correlate with suppressed homosexual tendencies."

Now, here I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage. What does and does not correlate with suppressed homosexual tendencies is your field of expertise, not mine. Who has the 'issues' here?



64

57Nomad,

california 25/01/2008 17:04:28
#62 Finnking

Finnking said:

""Palestinians kill each other...and it means nothing to them to throw someone off a roof."
That is racist, Nomad. Deal with it."

I had no idea you had been appointed Commissar of All Things Racist. Had I but known that you, Finnking, get to decide the Meaning of Words I would have been more careful.

You see, Finnking, in order to be a racist that person must find fault with those of a certain race, simply because they are of that particular race. Here is where your thesis falters. You see, Finnking, the Palestinians are not a race. Do you see where we're going here? Please explain how Lynne can be a racist when she hasn't said anything about their race?

Thank you for your comments on fools. Once again, this is a topic you know far more about than I do.



65

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 17:11:06
nomad only some one unsure of their argument could make such a daft comment let me just reassure you DRESDEN WAS A WARCRIME OK you fool your self not others when you attempt assign baseness to posters who shine an humanitarian light on the evil behaviour of zionism i and i dont think many others who posted on here in defence of PALESTINE do it because we support the mass murder of civilians by militaristic states sorry if that disappoints
66

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 17:16:54
finnking should stop with homosexualstuff already idoubt nomad is attractive to anybody but himself or his mum
67

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 17:20:53
Nomad

Is that it? That's the extent of your analysis of my post to Lynne?

You need to work on those abs and pecs a bit more, old man, getting lazy. The twinks wont like it.

So, saying "Jews kill each other...and it means nothing to them to shoot people." isn't racist, either? Fine. Now we know. The next time someone makes derogatory remarks about the "jews" they can cite the (evidently) out of shape Nomad and claim it not to be racist.

How about her comments on Arabs?

68

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 17:24:53
Britfree

I agree. It was simply an observation.

What gives with the Dresden stuff?
69

lielayer,

25/01/2008 17:48:57
65
britfree

"let me just reassure you DRESDEN WAS A WARCRIME"

A report by the U.S. Air Force Historical Division (USAFHD) analyzed the circumstances of the raid and concluded that it was militarily necessary and justified,

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II?t=5.#5.1.1.

An inquiry conducted at the behest of the U.S. Secretary of War, General George C. Marshall, found that the raid was justified by the available intelligence.The inquiry declared that the elimination of the German ability to reinforce a counter-attack against Marshall Konev's extended line or, alternatively, to retreat and regroup using Dresden as a base of operations, were important military objectives. As Dresden had been largely untouched during the war due to its location, it was one of the few remaining functional rail and communications centres. A secondary objective was to disrupt the industrial use of Dresden for munitions manufacture, which American intelligence believed to be the case.

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II?t=5.1.2.#5.1.2.
70

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 17:57:55
Lielayer

From Wiki on dresden:

"It had been decided that the raid would be a so-called double strike, in which a second wave of bombers would attack three hours after the first, just as the rescue teams were trying to put out the fires"

there's nice.
71

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 17:58:01
Finnking..my comments on Arabs have all been proven true. Shaking hands with the Presidents, and the PMs of Israel..who Arafat had promised to stop the attacks and suicide bombings on Israel...LIED...LIED...LIED..
It doesn't make me a racist..it makes me a realist.
All he did was go home and the PLO continued their attacks.
So you DEAL WITH IT!!
72

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 18:06:43
finnking #nevermind the banter# dresden you know of course is an ancient city in germany that was destroyed by an incendiery bombing raid late in the war the city itself had no stategic or military signifigance i think what gonad as attempting to establish is that in the light ofme being anti zionist imust somehow support/oppose???????duh? the fire bombing of dresden i said WARCRIME WARCRIME he wont get it hes only here to report /delete posts he can never better
73

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 18:10:42
Finnking..#70.. that which you describe is just like what happens in Israel and Iraq. They wait until rescue teams come to help and blow them up too!! These are the people YOU are defending!!
74

britfree,

camelon 25/01/2008 18:15:31
lielayer dont beleive all that guff it was to destroy one thing residual german resistence hence the barbarity of the act the overkill thus WARCRIME anyway id rather ignore lynne and mash up diathi
75

,

25/01/2008 18:24:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 18:25:32
71
Lynne,

"my comments on Arabs have all been proven true"

Would that include the one about them in "pig Sties"?

Here, listen, in terms of Hasbara, shouldn't the "Israel is acting in self defense" routine come before the "Arafat" routine? Just a thought. You see the "self defense" routine allows lots of red herrings to deflect from the article while the "arafat" routine is kinda lame as it doesn't lead to lots of fog and it's easily countered by saying "Olmert! LIAR LIAR LIAR!---Annapolis: Israel wont build any new settlements.And then they did just that"

No, better to play the "defense" card prior to the "arafat" card.
77

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 18:34:25
Finnking...thisis what Pict, Canada said.


You keep them living less than pigs in filthy conditions.
78

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 18:46:58
And by the way..they wouldn't be living this way if their leaders didn't steal the aid money. That's right!! It is missing, used, lost, and every excuse under the sun, but stolen. I am sure Mrs. Arafat and daughter live high on the hog.. Arafat...LIAR LIAR LIAR..
We (USA) also give the Palestinians more money than the Arab countries, and this last time, more than we gave Israel...
79

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 18:56:31
Here's what Lynne, USA, said;

"Lynne,. USA 25/01/2008 05:35:51. The Palestinians made their own pig sties. They haven't improved it an iota since Israel gave it back. .."

...a comment that is now deleted (imagine!) but still alive in the cyber ether thanks to Google! Bless them.
80

busybee,

California 25/01/2008 18:57:19
Here is my take on the whole issue. Israel got their land through Britian. If I'm wrong let me know. Saying it belongs to Palestine doesn't make it legally belong to Palestine. Legally it belongs to Israel, and all the wishing and hoping won't change that. Must go through legal factions. There are countries that want to completely rid Israel, there are countries that won't acknowledge their existance. Hard to compromise with those countries... They're ALWAYS on defensive, and now Hamas, A TERRORIST GROUP that has political pull on "Palestine" (a people without a land), launching rockets into Israel, Israel launches air strikes, mostly vs Hamas, but then innocent people get killed (as would happen in that situation)... Israel obviously will put their people first, but the ban on supplies... well, that really sucks for the Palestinians... because they're are denied necessities... So they get desperate, as any people would do who are locked down with no means of living, and now we got this whole mess going on... Neither side is perfect, but something needs to be done. Instead of arguing who is to blame, what is a good solution?
81

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 19:06:14
Britfree

Yes, I know of Dresden. Sure there were munitions works there but the very fact that the place had not been a target through much of the war surely indicates the murderous aspect of the bombing. Was it to aid the USSR, the real saviours of Europe from Nazi tyranny?

You know about the firestorms of Tokyo? Unreal: total massacre for no rational reasoning others than to kill civilians.
82

mike - across the pond,

RCI.... finn... all the other bashers.... 25/01/2008 19:08:17
here is an aspect of the goings on of the last century that you seem bent on ignoring...

please explain the census figures from the 20's on... early census figures show a fairly steady jewish population througout the region... somewhere just below 10%...

please explain to me what happened that caused the jewish population figures to plummet coincidentally with the creation of the jewish state...

dont be an appologizer... just come up with something I could believe in that would make that make sense of this...

before you say... they all just voluntarily packed up and moved to "zion"... we BOTH know that that is a load of crap... these people existed functionally in those areas for 10,000 years... there is no reason for them to abandon their livlihoods, pack up and move... the common guy doesnt cash in his chips, pack up and move... not on THAT kind of scale...

bottom line, any guilt for "landgrabbing" could be found on BOTH sides... Arab states did it from their jews just as much as the Brits did from the arabs...
83

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 19:15:56
Mike:

" A snapshot at figures of immigration (Aliyah) to the Land of Israel (Palestine) and to the State of Israel reveals the following: between 1882-1947, in successive waves of immigration, some 543,000 Jews immigrated to Palestine, joining the 24,000 who lived there. During the first three years of statehood (1948-1950), the average annual growth rate of the Jewish population was about 24 percent, and between 1948-1952, mass immigration of 711,000 supplemented a population of 630,000. Recently, Israel witnessed a massive influx of Soviet immigrants. During 1990-1998 the Israeli population of 4.56 million was enriched by 879,486 immigrants, a growth rate of 19.3 percent. In 1991, 15,000 Jews were airlifted in one single day in "Operation Solomon"."

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=219872

Facts are cheils that winnea ding.
84

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 19:17:18
Finnking... no matter how many times you try to prove that I first said it was pig sties...you are wrong or lying. In # 11...that is ELEVEN Pict. said it.. I just answered him.
So we see how you LIE, LIE, LIE
85

we the people,

25/01/2008 19:22:24
Hi Britfree,
yes you're correct of course. the slaughter and displacement through which the founding of israel was achieved were anything but noble (as you correctly point out, the protagonists were unashamed, and scarcely tried to hide it, in fact they've bequethed their tactics to subsequent generations of israeli leaders.) I was referring to a distinction ted honderich (humanity, terrorism and terrorist war) makes, from the standpoint of analytic philosophy, but didn't have the time to elaborate. i can't do it justice here but i think the book's interesting so worth a look. anyway, your point is well taken.
best for burns night!
86

Tikun,

Nashville 25/01/2008 19:29:35
#57 Findlay,

You asked where you blamed the victim? Are you serious?

I had a dream the other night...it was relating to the onset of WWIII. The war was brought on by a group of people who made up 0.0973% of the world poulation.

One tiny group of people responsible for the end of humanity.

Like I said, you must also blame women for being raped.
87

mike - across the pond,

finnking and bitfree.... 25/01/2008 19:35:42
war is not pretty...

I dont know what you are trying to achieve... without bombing the heart of Germany and Japan, their war machine would have continued

allowing the Axis war machine free reign, the war would have continued... denial of the ability of axis forces to bring new technologies, german designed jet fighters would have changed the complexion of the entire war effort both in the European theater and the Pacific...

you really need to separate the pacific and europe for adequate analysis...

Europe... bombing civillian targets became a trade the allies were willing to make (I believe you will find that the nazis didnt start V2 attacks on london until we bombed berlin during the battle for brittian)... and if that didnt happen, the germans would have kept air superiority, ultimately invaded brittian, and wed be having this discussion in GERMAN....

firebombing Dresden... ghastly, but necessary to insure the end result

Japan and the pacific... you are applying modern western morals and standards to asian forces, leadership, and fighting styles of a previous time...
please look up the term vivisection... as it applied to the training of Japanese army surgeons and chinese POW camps... it is appalling
please look up germ warfare as it related to the sack of nanking... again appalling
please take the time to search the japanese vocabulary for the term surrender... it doesnt exist

you will call me racist (and I dont care)... but the opponent we faced in the pacific fought by an entirely different set of rules, both from the way we fought at the time, and certainly from the ideals we strive to adhere to today

firebombing Tokyo... nuking Nagasaki, and Hiroshima... all necessary... (and please note that Tokyo was the #1 target for both of the nukes, Tokyo was saved due to cloud cover) this was a hearts and minds issue, the will to fight had to be overcome... this war had to be drawn to a close while we had the upper hand.
88

Nairobi,

25/01/2008 19:43:53
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dYJxeEVa_0M
89

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 19:45:12
#80 Bee

The basics of a solution have already been worked out. The Palestinians that all claim to have been dispossessed will receive money, but no imaginary 'right' to come to Israel and 'claim' land.
The boundries of the city of Jerusalem will be expanded and then the city divided, so the Palestinians can claim 'Jerusalem' as their capital, but the city itself will not be divided. The Palestinians will have control over the Muslim holy sites (as they basically do now).
The armistice lines of 1949 will change, with some land from the West Bank being addeed to Israel and some being taken, but the new Palestinian state making up approximately 90-95% of the total land area of the WB and Gaza.

The haters on this board who constantly try to demonize Israel and/or Jews want to continue to use the Palestinians as pawns in their hatred. The majority of Palestinians know and understand this to be the basic outline of a future state, as do the overwhelming majority of Israelis.
The rejectionist camp in the Israelis is mostly made up of the religious right, which make up 10-20% (depending on which survey you look at) of Israeli population.
The rejectionist camp in the Palestinians is more layered. It consists of radical rejectionists like Hamas and Islamic Jihad which deny Israel the right to exist at all and demand all of Israel as a future Palestine. They make up 25-40% of the Palestinians (and well over 50-70% of those in Gaza).
Then there is the rejectionist front that is more like the Israelis. They want peace without comprimise. They are the ones 'demanding' the 49 armistice lines that they declared were not fixed (in 1963) were always fixed. They insist on an all-or-nothing solution. They make up anywhere from 10-25% of the population (again, multiple surveys with multiple outcomes). Again, they are more heavily concentrated in the more radical and more Islamic Gaza.

Thus a bit of the problem is the fact that the rejectionist front in Israel is less than
90

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 19:46:48
Finnking...are you now saying the Jews should not emigrate to Israel? They should not live in their homeland? They should not support their fellow Jews? They should not go to their promiseland? That they should have been and should be denied? That Israel has no right to grow?
What's your point? Jews have always been there.
91

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 19:59:01
Thus a bit of the problem is the fact that the rejectionist front in Israel is less than 20%, while the rejectionist front among the Palestinians is at least 50% and a sizable chunk of that is radically rejectionist.

Additionally, both Olmert and Abbas are weak leaders and there is serious question of whether they could get their countrymen to accept a deal. That said, they are certainly moving the ball forward from where it has been since Arafat rejected the peace accord he negotiated 8 years ago.

The Palestinians have been used as pawns for a long time. They are the only people on earth that are able to inherit their refugee status. Their fellow Arab states have long used them as a tool to poke Israel and the US, and they themselves have become radicalized by years of fighting the Israelis, the Arab states and themselves. It has done damage to them as well as the Israelis and others, but more to them.
Even when peace does come, it will take a while for the Palestinians to 'unradicalize' and accept peace, but there is at least hope.


92

,

25/01/2008 20:02:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
93

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 25/01/2008 20:06:42
#90: No Lynne. Jews have not always been there. If you believe the Old Testament they invaded the land, led by a man called Joshua, and slaughtered and plundered people who had been living in peace. But what can expect from a brutal god who would put all the first-born children of a country to death? If such a god actually existed, s/he/it should be tried for crimes against humanity. Fortunately the Old Testament is merely an amalgam of folk tales from right across the Fertile Crescent - some of the stories were simply translated into Hebrew and put into Jewish settings - some are based on the actual history of people other than the Jews as adopted by them, and some are based on their own real history. If you believe other ancient records, the Jews were one of the "Hyksos" tribes that invaded Egypt and took it over for about 100 years. When the Hyksos were driven out the tribe known as the "Hibru" (i.e. the Jews) took over leadership of the flight from Egypt and invaded Canaan, i.e. Israel, butchering their way to sovereignty. Religion is a convenient way of keeping people together and making them behave well. Who can beat a threat of everlasting hellfire?
94

57Nomad,

california 25/01/2008 20:15:15
#67 Finnking

Finnking said:

"Is that it? That's the extent of your analysis of my post to Lynne?"

Yep, that's it and that's enough. You accused Lynne of being a racist. I pointed out that you can't make an accusation of racism based on nationality which is what you are trying to do.

One more thing, junior, I find the personal references that you are making about me to be humorous. You can be sure of one thing, little fella, you would never say that to my face. You've got a big mouth from six thousand miles away, coward. At least a couple of your comrades at fh have photos of me. Check it out. I could snap you like a thanksgiving wishbone, punk.
95

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 25/01/2008 20:15:40
I despise idiots who believe that they have some racial right to a piece of land. We are all born new in this world and must work to earn what we own. The concept of a "divine right" conferred on a select group of people is an extreme form of racial prejudice. Complete DNA sequencing will prove that almost all people in this world are complex mixtures. Already DNA testing has shown that the assumed "pure" ancestry of Icelanders is false. Fully 60% of the original women who settled on Iceland were Scots and Irish, not Vikings, while the same holds true for 40% of the men. Naturally Icelanders were astonished at this finding, but to their credit they are now very proud of their mixed heritage. As it so happens, I myself have mixed Scots, French, German, Dutch, Flemish and English ancestry within the last few generations - a fact of which I am proud. Rather a healthy, happy mongrel open to diverse cultures than an inbred, prejudiced, monocultural nitwit.
96

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 20:19:18
Lynne:

Ah, my comment at 83 to Mike? From that you get the notion that I deny that Jews have lived there before? How do you do that? I mean, how can you possibly to that bizarre conclusion from me casting doubt about Mike's figures (using, I think, Israeli university data)on Jewish migration? Do you not see, Lynne, that the very fact you can leap to such crazy assumptions demonstrates your desire to shoot down anyone who critises Israeli (rather expansionist) foreign policy?

I am an anarchist, Lynne. I want a world without ANY borders, without governments and without unjustified mandatless power. If people want to go to Palestine for faith based reasons, they can go as far as i'm concerned. I do, however, object to the use of Hasbara/propaganda to promote the notion that Israel is the 'victim' and I seriously object to the use of sickening emotional blackmail (holocaust) to condemn the political opinions folk have on a nation state. I also, as you know, seriously get jacked off at folk using "Anti-semite" or "Jew hater" in a discussion about NATIONAL POLITICS.
97

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 25/01/2008 20:26:34
As for Israelis and Palestinians, I think the young people there should forget all about the politics and religion of their parents, set career and family goals, and work hard to achieve those goals. New, dynamic countries are created by people who bury the past, and who always look forward. Palestine/Israel is a wretched, overcrowded, arid, infertile strip of dust and rock that should only be inhabited by a few nomadic shepherds and their flocks.
Educate yourselves, say "Stuff off" to the older generation and all the cultural claptrap they want to burden you with, and leave - go and seek new lives abroad as cooks, engineers, lawyers, mechanics, doctors, accountants, agricultural experts,...Your parents and the Middle East are killing you, mentally, spiritually, and all too often physically. Save yourselves.
98

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 20:29:17
$95 Caora Dubh

So you believe in a right for Arabs to steal land? Or it is OK to steal land 93 years ago (at the end of the Ottoman Empire)?

Or is it just people who believe in God that you have issue with?

While Jews may not have ALWAYS been in the land, they certainly have for over the past 2,000 years, while the Arabs have come in and out, never ruling the land themselves.

So should the land go to the Brittish, who had it before the Jews? Or the Ottomans? THe Malamuks, the Selucids?

Tell me, where do YOU draw the line, since obviously Jews are not entitled to THEIR land (even without God, Jews have been going to Israel since the Babylonian expulsion - history agrees with the Bible beyond the 'David and Goliath' and 'Adam and Eve' stories - but you seem to reject every word, so does that mean you reject history when it agrees with the Bible? Did the Temple never exist regardless of the archeological evidence, just because it is in ther Bible)?

So tell me, oh great and mighty decider of who gets what - since the land was divided in 1927 and 80% was given to the indigenous Arabs so the remaining 20% could be for the indigenous Jews (and whoever they wanted to allow to immigrate into THEIR country), why should years of Arab take and reject-ionism be rewarded?

99

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 20:31:45
Ah Caora Dubh

Never mind, now I undersstand.
You are a religious zealot of the 'no religion'. You and your ideaolgy (religion) are the One True Faith and all who do not believe as you are wrong and 'heathens'

The zealotry of the atheist is every bit as tyranical as that of the zealotry of the religious bigot.
100

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 20:34:54
94 57Nomad
"You accused Lynne of being a racist. I pointed out that you can't make an accusation of racism based on nationality which is what you are trying to do."

---and I pointed out that when someone refers to "JEWS being happy to shoot folk" and they are rightly denounced as racist, they can simply say "Not according to Nomad, I'm not!".

Then...

"You've got a big mouth from six thousand miles away, coward."
---well, could the same not be said for your misogynistic comments regarding Muslim women?

"At least a couple of your comrades at fh have photos of me."
---You send your photos to people who post on Freehootsman!!! I will need to do an article there about fora etiquette and chivalry being a dieing art.

"Check it out. I could snap you like a thanksgiving wishbone, punk."

--Yee haa! Mr. Macho! Considering that you are at least 58 year old, i'm not overly concerned.

Still, good to see you wearing your true aggressive and misogynistic colours. Great stuff, Nomad.Straight out of 1950's holywood!
101

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 20:56:36
I see the Yankee Zionists are again trying to extinguish free speech in Scotland. You'll never win, trolls
102

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 21:01:02
101
Roberta Burns

Oh tey try, Roberta, they do try!
103

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 21:08:16
31 Tikun,Greater Nashville

You blame Israel for being attacked by Arabs and then claim that its Israel that would start WWIII, not the genocidal Arab states and their desires to 'drive the Jews into the sea' (By the way, those are THEIR DIRECT WORDS).

What's wrong with the sea? Better than kitchen utensils
104

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 21:18:04
99 Tikun 'The zealotry of the atheist is every bit as tyranical as that of the zealotry of the religious bigot'

I think you should go have a rest now, dear. Your medication is on the way.

Zealotry, for your information, tikumdedum, was a movement in first century Judaism, described by Josephus as one of the "four sects" at this time. The term Zealot, in Hebrew means one who is zealous on behalf of God. Zealots were a religious group frequently in rebellion.

Athiests do not believe in a supernatural god and in discussion refer to social facts rather than to religious fantasy/fallacy.
105

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 21:40:28
Tikunm have a look at Nairobi's link at http://youtube.com/watch?v=dYJxeEVa_0M - and tell us all why Israelis deserve to live in any society. Society being a term which refers to living among diverse others in the same environment.

106

Enio Marini,

Connecticut U.S.A 25/01/2008 21:46:05
It's about time Israel removes themselves from Gaza
maybe now if Israel can stop meddling in the MidEast
with other Arab nations maybe now we could have some peace. Keep this in mind England and U.S are to blame for the middle East promblems....WHY because it was U.S and England who decided to take half of Palestine and call it Israel after World War Two whether that land was Jew land 3000 years ago or not does not give anyone the right to come back thousands of years later to sat it belongs to me if that's the case the all Europe and Mioddle east belong to the Romans because at one time Rome ruled the world the italians lost their power but still maintained their country if the jews were to stupid or weak to lose it then whu shouls we today have to help them you lost it to bad for my belief israel should give not only gaza bur all their land back to Palestine then there will be peace permanently.
107

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 21:46:38
Think they have scurried away, roberta.
108

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 21:54:46
I wiz jist finnking the same thing
109

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 21:57:43
#106..Wakey Wakey!! In August 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip and removed all settlements from the area along with 8500 Jewish settlers. This was done to jump-start the peace process and show the Palestinians that it was willing to trade land for peace. No Palestinian leader made a move to reciprocate.
So.. the time for Israel to remove themselves from Gaza, HAS PASSED..IT WAS DONE ALREADY!!!
110

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 22:01:52
It wasn't half of Palestine and call it Israel..
Palestine got 80% of the land.
Israel got 20%
Where do you get your info from? As usual Anti-Israelis have all the wrong information.
111

,

25/01/2008 22:09:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
112

Lynne,

USA 25/01/2008 22:22:17
Roberta Burns..no one runs away from any of you...most of us do other things too. You know-- jobs, taking care of families etc.
Come to think of it, I do not remember seeing you around here before either.
Must have been under some other name.!!
113

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 22:32:44
Roberta,

Perhaps if you were a bit more educated, you would hate less.
The definition you gave was the HISTORICAL usage of the word, but the CURRENT usage is

zealot - a fervent and even militant proponent of something
drumbeater, partisan
advocate, advocator, exponent, proponent - a person who pleads for a cause or propounds an idea
bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own
doctrinaire, dogmatist - a stubborn person of arbitrary or arrogant opinions

So an aetheist may certainly be a zealot.


Perhaps your reference to medication was a reminder to yourself?

Is there some anti-hate medicine that you keep forgetting to take?
114

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 22:35:12
"Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip and removed all settlements from the area along with 8500 Jewish settlers."

Priceless.

"Unilateral":"involving only one part or side"...er, so who else would have moved out? The Finns?

"This was done to jump-start the peace process and show the Palestinians that it was willing to trade land for peace. No Palestinian leader made a move to reciprocate."

---total porkies, Lynne. So, the building work within the West Bank stopped or increased?

Great stuff, Lynne, seriously, you and Heinz57 are a class act. Get married, have kids, create your own personal dystopia.
115

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 22:41:31
108
Roberta Burns

So, how's it going, suck? These boards are pretty tedious these days, aye? The usual reactionary drivel. Sad thing is, I do enjoy winding up the zealots. Bad hobby.
116

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 22:43:51
114 Finking

So the building in the West Bank is the cause of all the troubles?
The Palestinians use Gaza as a base for sooting missiles at Israel because of a few homes in the West Bank?
Hamas perpetrated a violent coup in Gaza because of a few homes in the West Bank?


That you can even try to twist your lies and make them attemot to sound like less than the total malarkey they are is hysterical.

When Israel made peace with Egypt, they pulled out all their settlements from Sinai.
TO try to make peace with the Palestinians, Israel first pulled all their settlements out of Gaza.
Will the Palestinians be given all of the West Bank? Who knows?

But to claim that the Palestinians ongoing War Crimes from Gaza is a result of a few homes in the West Bank is absurd, at best
117

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 22:44:34
#115 Hooty

You are the zealot.
Wind yourself at will
118

,

25/01/2008 22:45:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
119

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 22:46:28
Look out Egypt, Hooty and Roberta will start chanting 'genocide' soon

Tensions flared at one point when Palestinians threw stones at Egyptian police, who responded with batons and water cannon.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080125/ts_nm/palestinians_israel_dc_16
120

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 22:48:05
113 Tikun 'Perhaps if you were a bit more educated, you would hate less.
The definition you gave was the HISTORICAL usage of the word' LOL LOL

And, what pray, do you types use to justify Israeli genocide in Palestine - history!. Back to school sonny.

121

,

25/01/2008 22:50:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
122

Tikun,

Greater Nashville 25/01/2008 22:52:37
See Egypt - be careful - Roberta and Hooty LOVE to use the word 'genocide'.
Unfortunately, like the word 'zealot', they really dont understand what the word means.
123

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 22:53:50
112 Lynne,USA Should I have clocked in with you first? Was it you who removed my post at #1?
124

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 23:04:35
116
Tikun,

And here, Ladies and Gentlemen, we see the true proponent of Hasbara! Fantastic, Tikun! Really, great stuff. I couldn't make it up.

I simply point out the absurdity of a Lynne comment regarding the "unilateral" (hail hail the ever generous!) withdrawal from Gaza and here's Tikun with "So the building in the West Bank is the cause of all the troubles?"....round of applause, folks! He's working overtime at Hasbara R US. Note, for those who study the art of Israeli Fora Propaganda , having now defined an absurdity as being from me, he then, perversely, dissects this absurdity in a manner that focuses upon the "Oh, Poor Israel" card. Classic stuff!

Then comes the usual tirade: "That you can even try to twist your lies and make them attemot to sound like less than the total malarkey they are is hysterical." when, in fact, I did no such thing! It's amazing, folks. They do it every time.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the poor sods who actually live under the Israeli regime. Most REAL Israelis (as in, those who are actually "israeli" ) can't stand what is being done in their name; in much the same way as the folk of the 'uk' don't agree with with what's being done in their name. But these NON ISRAELI zealots who are so massively insecure in their religious beliefs really get my goat.

And then the end of the tirade. A sentence intended to firm up the overall comment by referring to its beginning. Never mind that the beginning was vacuous,hollow and absurd.

Fantastic, Tikun! You are getting better, that's for sure but it's still patently obvious for the folk this side of the pond.
125

Finnking,

Lempäälä 25/01/2008 23:12:54
121
Roberta Burns,

"Perhaps we should be pick on some smart folks on another site. Just yankee idiots here."

Well, my experience is that the folk form the USA are massively propagandised but, when you discuss things with most of them they open up and see the world as it actually is. They are simply folk, like us, getting on with life. unlike us, in general, they do not have the same information at their disposal. personally, i think the USA is a great place, it's just been taken over by the greedy minded folk, you know what I mean?

We are all one. The elites in each "nation" need to control us, the herd. In the USA, the elites seemed to learn a lot from the nazis (having employed them after the war) while the masses in the US simply didn't suffer from the rank stupidity of WWI and WWII so they are not wise as to the abuse they receive from the elites.
126

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 23:57:06
125 Finnking,

I take your point about elites. But come on, the most powerful nation in the world?- and Bush? It is not the simple, propagandised masses who voted him to power.

At the same time, the American underclass is the most uneducated and deceived in the civilised world, and again, I accept your point that they are at the mercy of a callous and unprincipled elite who demand from an early age, adherence to the flag, god and America. It's just a shame there are so many zionists among this elite and in powerful postions in the American administration directing the conflict in the Middle East.
127

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 00:06:54
#123 I have never had a post removed..I believe in freedom of speech no matter how insulting and stupid it is.
128

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 00:15:18
Finnking...back to using those generalizations of yours.."most Israelis" ...You must enjoy sounding like a rabid idiot.
Stop giving English lessons...it is unilaterally, and Israel DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE IT BACK. It's just more trouble than it's worth. Besides, if they ever have to go back and take it, you get bbet it will never again be used as a bargaining chip for peace. They don't make the same mistake twice.
Give up..Israel is here to stay..and IF it wanted to get rid of all the Palestinians, it could have done so long ago.
129

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 00:20:42
#126..Roberta Burns...now you sound like a Nazi..too many Jews for you in the America you don't know?

Hell, PLEASEEEEEE, tell Mexico, Haiti, and the rest of these people beating down the doors, and the illegal aliens (of which we have 12 million and counting)...to go back to their country of origin...that they are making the biggest mistake of their lives coming here...the elites are full of Jews and the gov't is too.
Oh Please...maybe you can solve our illegal alien problem.
130

Roberta Burns,

26/01/2008 00:31:51
How can I help, Lynne. You only have to ask.
131

britfree,

camelon 26/01/2008 00:38:55
well its either you or nomadski keeps getting mine removed mair trouble nor eneuch the pair ay yis still it is burns night so ah forgie yiz aw for auld lang syne----aye see the green no intill yiz spit oot puir PALESTEEN
132

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 01:54:14
It is NOT ME..there are others on thee posts who regularly have posts removed.
133

britfree,

camelon 26/01/2008 02:46:22
lynnie darlin awa tak yersel ower tae the the camel threed for thers a wheen o' humourless biilies fair gantin for a laugh(tonight julia britfree will be wearing mostly tartan or plaid as its known to our american visitors )I THENK YOU
134

57Nomad,

california` 26/01/2008 03:09:51
#131 bf

bf said:

"well its either you or nomadski keeps getting mine remove"

Are you out of your mind? Not only do I not try to get your posts or anyones posts removed, I would be right by your side if any one tried to suppress your freedom of expression.

Secondly, your posts are incoherent, disorganized, and laughable. I hope everyone reads them. I get a kick out of them. At least you provide a little entertainment value.
135

The Pict.,

canada 26/01/2008 03:22:30
Lynne U.S.A. What I said in # 11 is TRUE.What I didn't say is that the Zionist gang was led by Ben Hecht. You also, in THAT FIRST TERRORIST ATTACK, MANAGED TO MURDER SEVERAL BRITISH NURSES. If you, like most American Zionists, don't know HISTORY perhaps you should study it before using the usual verbal attack, used by people like you, ON OTHERS by calling them liars. Your objective is rather transparent: You want to shut them up.

The problem for you, however, is that most letters are written by intelligent people. YOU DON'T FOOL ANYBODY.
136

57Nomad,

california 26/01/2008 03:48:23
#65 bf

bf said:

"nomad only some one unsure of their argument could make such a daft comment let me just reassure you DRESDEN WAS A WARCRIME"

Now here bf outdoes himself. First, I'm unsure of my arguments? Really? Daft comment? That's a good one. Look, loser, the only people on this thread who mentioned Dresden are Finnking, the Witness, and you.
Do you clowns realize that you are arguing with yourselves? Circular firing squad, nice work lads.
137

Dáithí,

San Jose 26/01/2008 04:44:05
Nomad -

They are doing SOMETHING in a circle - but it's not a firing squad!
138

Dáithí,

San Jose 26/01/2008 05:47:20
From the article:

"In the past two days, Gazans in Egypt have stocked up on the likes of cigarettes, cement and fuel."

Huh? Poor, starving Palestinians are buying 'cigarettes, cements and fuel'?

I despise starvation as a political tool (as used by the British in 1845-49 on their own 'subjects of the crown') but the Irish wouldn't have bought 'cigarettes, cement and fuel' - since they were truly starving.

They would have bought food.
139

Dáithí,

San Jose 26/01/2008 05:58:31
#115 - Finnking

>"So, how's it going, Suck (referring to Roberta Burns)? These boards are pretty tedious these days, aye?

- Wrong list Finking, that would be Suck's board.

What a surprise - Suck is 'outed' as a troll by Finnking. Big shock there, let me tell you.

Who would believe that Dj, Suck, Roberta Burns, et al, - whatever, is a troll? Hahaha!

I've reviewed the 'other' site, here's a typical conversation:

1 - 'America sucks. Jews suck too, don't they.'
2 - Yes, I agree
3 - Glad you agree
4 - Yep. Goodnight
5 - Goodnight

Wowzers. This is what passes as 'informed discussion' there.

Keep on using their passwords to log on here, though.

Pathetic.
140

,

26/01/2008 06:55:53
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Reason:
141

Finnking,

Lempäälä 26/01/2008 07:31:53
128 Lynne

"back to using those generalizations of yours"

--Well, it's one step better than referring to "Palestinians" en masse or using the royal "we" when referring, it seems , to the entire population of the USA- Mirror, Lynne, mirror!

Followed by some drivel about "English lessons" when I simply provided the meaning to a word. And then comes some rabid rant that shifts the focus away from Iraeli aggression. Hasbara.

129 Lynne

"Hell, PLEASEEEEEE, tell Mexico, Haiti, and the rest of these people beating down the doors, and the illegal aliens (of which we have 12 million and counting)...to go back to their country of origin."

"Oh Please...maybe you can solve our illegal alien problem."

---Mmmm....I wonder what other group on the planet feel the same way? Mirror, Lynne, Mirror!


Nomad:

"I would be right by your side if any one(sic) tried to suppress your freedom of expression."

So, why then all the "I will spell the word Nazi with your teeth" and "I'll snap you like a thanksgiving wishbone, punk" when someone expresses themselves freely?

Daithi

Aye right. Whatever.

Witness

"General Dwight Eisenhower,a hero who saved us from Nazis? Or a Mass Murdering Zionist?"

--Well, it couldn't be Eisenhower that saved 'us' from the Nazis because it was the Brits and the USSR who did that.
142

Finnking,

Lempäälä 26/01/2008 08:03:10
126
Roberta Burns

Florida? Ohio? Scrub lists? Electronic counting? There was a US woman who seemed to demonstrate that CNN produced the results of one election BEFORE the count was done. They withdrew the news item quickly but when the votes were "counted" the CNN crystal ball was shown to be perfect!

Add to that the basic absurdity of a two party system, both equally (pretty much) funded by industry and banking. One party carries out the wishes of the elites while the other party is out of favour with the masses.

Plus the fact that the US's foreign news is seriously dumbed down and, often, totally missing (according to Raportuers San Frontiers).

Mix in the jingoism, flag flying and anthems and you get the world's biggest terrorist state.

There is hope. There are many many US citizens who are fully aware and there's a great deal of activism over there. We should also recognise that the 'uk' is much the same.
143

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/01/2008 11:01:48
# 109 Lynne

You posted:

"This was done to jump-start the peace process and show the Palestinians that it was willing to trade land for peace. No Palestinian leader made a move to reciprocate".

....Maybe you would point to the land you expect the Palestinians to give back to Israel.
144

57Nomad,

california 26/01/2008 13:57:54
#140 tw

tw said:

#136 Nomad
You said...Look, loser, the only people on this thread who mentioned Dresden are Finnking, the Witness, and you.

"Nomad, if you want to be a spokesperson for the z's, try answering my question,"

This is a fascinating look into the disintegrating mind of a person in the grip of paranoia and delusion. Try to follow along and see for yourself.

Out of nowhere a poster, responding to a post of mine brings up Dresden. I didn't mention Dresden, not once, never. Then a trio of gnomes suddenly begin to get on my case about Dresden even though I never said a word about it. To top it of they begin to argue among themselves about a subject that they, and only they, introduced.

Now along comes one of the confused trio with this ridiculous non sequitur:

I said:

"You said...Look, loser, the only people on this thread who mentioned Dresden are Finnking, the Witness, and you."

To which tw answers:

"Nomad, if you want to be a spokesperson for the z's, try answering my question,"

Is there anybody who can see any relationship whatsoever between my statement and tw's answer?

Of course not, there is none. What do you say to someone whose idea of debate is to introduce spurious issues, get in a argument about it with their own guys and then quotes a post of mine and makes a response in no way related to it. Sheesh! I take back the 'loser' remark. You've at least gotta be in the game in order to be a loser. These are the guys who didn't get picked by any team and are on the sidelines whining. Worse than losers, they don't even know where the game is being played.
145

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 14:43:25
Finnking...Illegal Immigration is in the top 4 for the next elections, along with border problems, the economy and the war.
Sooo, I am not alone in thinking about keeping illegals out of the US.

We have 12 million or more iilegal aliens in this country, getting goods and services that the taxpayers pay for and are not entitled to.

It includes lower tuition rates at colleges and universities, and health care, and welfare checks. So don't think I am the only one on this planet who thinks this way.
Most of us want closed borders, and to send these illegls packing back to where they came from.

Mirror anyone?

146

57Nomad,

california 26/01/2008 14:56:57
Here is another bizarre glimpse into the disintegrating mind. Here's the backstory. In a previous post Fins called Lynne a racist for saying that Palestinians threw other Palestinians off of roofs. That this is true is undeniable. Anyone with a television set saw it with their own eyes when Hamas and Fatah were fighting each other.

Fins responds by calling Lynne a racist. Odd, but nonetheless he did. When I explained to Fins that Palestinians are not a race and therefore remarks made about them could not be construed to be racist, he brings forth this curious response:

"So, saying "Jews kill each other...and it means nothing to them to shoot people." isn't racist, either?"

Who said that? I didn't, Lynne didn't, who did? It was Finnking himself. He said it, not me. So when he says, ""So, saying "Jews kill each other...and it means nothing to them to shoot people." isn't racist, either?" the poor confused little fellow was trying to put his words in my mouth and then argue with me about it. This is odd since he was the author of the comments, not I.

I really don't take personal offense at this. It is more than entertaining, it's fascinating. This is like watching a film in psyc 101 of someone descending into a schizoid delusion. First the thoughts began to unravel, then the sentences became disjointed, keep your eyes open for the next phase. The words within the sentence will lose cohesion. Downward spiral and nothing to be done about it. Sad.

147

57Nomad,

california 26/01/2008 15:23:27

#100 Fins:

fins said:

""At least a couple of your comrades at fh have photos of me."
---You send your photos to people who post on Freehootsman!!! I will need to do an article there about fora etiquette and chivalry being a dieing art.

"Check it out. I could snap you like a thanksgiving wishbone, punk."

--Yee haa! Mr. Macho! Considering that you are at least 58 year old, i'm not overly concerned."

Item #1

"I will need to do an article there about fora etiquette and chivalry being a dieing art."

Fins all you have to do is gather up your endless stream of name calling, gratuitous insults, and derisions and that will be all the material you need for your aritcle. Secondly, the items in question were sent in response to letters, sent, unsolicited, to me, by your comrades at fh. If you have a problem with that take it up with them after you pry your foot out of your mouth.

Item #2:

""Check it out. I could snap you like a thanksgiving wishbone, punk."

--Yee haa! Mr. Macho! Considering that you are at least 58 year old, i'm not overly concerned."

This was a response to a remark Finnking, the fora etiquette expert, questioning my orientation. Look, twerp, if you don't like what happens if a fight, don't start fights.

There is only one reason that you are not concerned and it has nothing to do with my age, you pathetic, whining, quivering little yellowbelly. And here it is. You are out of range. Thats why you are shooting off your mouth. Big man, big talk, big ocean between us. Before you get yourself in trouble you won't be able to cry your way out of, you're gonna want to have a look at those photos. Sissy.







148

Dáithí,

San Jose 26/01/2008 16:21:50
#142 - Finnking

>"There was a US woman who seemed to demonstrate that CNN produced the results of one election BEFORE the count was done. "

My, what worm-like qualifiers! She SEEMED to? Did she or not? You don't know, do you? But will that stop you from seeing a 'grand conspiracy' and proclaiming it a fact? NEVER!!! ;)

EVERY major news agency makes projections about who they believe will win. They HAVE to wait until after 8:00 PM Pacific Time to make their projections however, so that they will NOT unduly influence voters who are still going to the polls.

Sometimes they DO post before 8:00 PM Pacific time - they are then required to withdraw those projections until after 8:00 PM Pacific time. When they wait until the time, then release them again - guess what? They are THE SAME.

End of that little 'conspiracy theory'.
149

Dáithí,

San Jose 26/01/2008 16:31:21
#142 - Finnking

>"Add to that the basic absurdity of a two party system, both equally (pretty much) funded by industry and banking.

That sounds like people that work (industry) and people that have savings accounts (banking). Big deal.

>"One party carries out the wishes of the elites while the other party is out of favour with the masses."

"Out of favor" must mean the Democrats. We have a Democratic majority in both the House and Senate, hardly 'out of favor'. Statements like this only come from people that have no clue how the American system works.

Foreigners only grasp the concept of the President in the US, they don't understand the role of the House (which, since the PM leads the 'House' in many countries, they are the same) or the Senate (which in most countries is pretty meaningless).

">Plus the fact that the US's foreign news is seriously dumbed down and, often, totally missing (according to Raportuers San Frontiers).

How long did you have to look to find a site that said what you wanted? You don't think that THEY have an agenda of their own?

"Add to that the basic absurdity of a two party system..."

What an absurd statement. Did you guys get to vote for Gordon Brown? You're in a country with an appointed leader and you think that you've got the good deal?

You're kidding.
150

,

26/01/2008 17:45:43
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151

57Nomad,

california 26/01/2008 18:08:02
For Daithi, Lynne, Mike, Tikun, American, Laurie,

Here is some must reading. It will tie together many of themes echoed here constantly by the hive people.

http://www.tysknews.com/Articles/dnc_corruption.htm

It references Hilary Clinton's political mentor. His name was Saul Alinsky. Every skeevy tactic that has been rained on you by the usual suspects was first articulated and then put into practice by Alinsky. Here is a tidbit from Alinsky's rules:

""Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.""

Read the rest of them and you will see all of the grimeworm tactics you have grown to loathe outlined here in his "Rules for Radicals."
152

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 26/01/2008 18:25:19
#6 57Nomad

Nomad said

"Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Israelis are not practicing genocide in Palestine. Look around. Do you see Palestinians? Sure you do. If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."

which is the same as saying

"Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Nazis were not practising genocide against the jews. Look around. Do you see german jews alive after the war? Sure you do. If the nazis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."

Always thought you were a holocaust denier Nomad

153

,

26/01/2008 18:28:44
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154

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 18:29:36
Thanks...I am going to sitdown and have an interesting read.
155

Mine's an 80 bob,

The US is crap 26/01/2008 18:31:24
#139 daffy

daffy says

"I've reviewed the 'other' site, here's a typical conversation:

1 - 'America sucks. Jews suck too, don't they.'
2 - Yes, I agree
3 - Glad you agree
4 - Yep. Goodnight
5 - Goodnight

Wowzers. This is what passes as 'informed discussion' there."

As daffys whole life is taken up by the singular pursuit of attacking people on these threads he has never managed to learn anything worthwhile and the above is an example of what he/she/it thinks an "informed discussion" would be like.

It is unfortunate that this handicap is stopping daffy from signing up at the "other site". The chance to spend some time in serious conversation, without the hinderance of trolls, would, I am sure be of great benefit to he/she/it.





156

Dáithí,

San Jose 26/01/2008 18:38:38
#153 - whomever

>"Hope you spotted the second comma in that last line daffy, it makes all the differerence."

Why does Finnking outing Roberta Burns as a troll bother you, Mine's a Bob 80?

>"It is unfortunate that this handicap is stopping daffy from signing up at the "other site"

Yeah, calling someone names and posting personal information is a sure way to get them to join a site.

157

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 18:57:47
#11...this is for you: my answer at # 13 seems to have been removed!!


The Palestinians made their own pig sties. They haven't improved it an iota since Israel gave it back.
They won that land along with the West Bank in the '67 6 Day war. You know the one...the war the Arabs started and were humiliated at losing. By right they didn't have to give back an inch...but Israel gave it back on a promise of peace..Yeah right..when does an Arab not talk out of both sides of their mouths? They lied then and they will lie now.
NO LAND WAS STOLEN.. Originally it was bought acre by acre from the Turkish Empire and Arab landowners.
There was no invasion, no conquest, and no theft of arab land. It's just more lies told to you. It wasn't a land of Palestine as the Arabs living in the region were Turkish subjects for over 400 years.
In 1892 a group of landowners sent a letter to the Turkish Sultan, requesting that it be illegal to sell anymore land to the Jews, because they felt that too much land had been sold.
No one complained of theft of lands. No Arabs were driven from their homes. In fact the Arab population grew.
Much of this land was desert and swamp and uninhabitable. From this came farms and communities.
Just something else for the Arabs to be jealous of, and that made the Arab leaders angry.
Shiekh Yousuf al-Qaradhawi, a lieutenant to Osama bin Laden in a televised speech in May 2005, told his followers.."Infortunately we (Arabs) do not excel in either military or civil industries. We import everything from needles to missiles. How come the Zionist gang has managed to be superior to us, despite being so few? It has become superior through knowledge,, through technology, and through strength. It has become superior to us through work. We had the desert before our eyes, but we didn't do anything with it. When they took over they turned it into a green oasis. How can a nation that does not work progress?""How can it grow?"


158

Hemingway,

Ayr 26/01/2008 19:34:20
155 Mine's an 80 bob,The US is crap AKA Djookers

Djookers the troll,

Dáithí is correct, your site is for idiots that want to agree with how awful the US is. Just look at your location code.

159

bikewoman,

26/01/2008 20:41:47
Mines an 80 bob & Finnking are here because there site is soooo boring.
160

57Nomad,

26/01/2008 20:57:27
#152 bobs

bobs said:

""Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Nazis were not practising genocide against the jews. Look around. Do you see german jews alive after the war? Sure you do. If the nazis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."

I see you think you know how to construct a persuasive analogy. You don't.

The fact that there were Jews alive after the war is not analogous to there being Palestinians alive today and you know it. This is less than weak.

The only reason that there are any Jews left in the world has one single cause. Germany lost the war and were forced to cease their slaughter of the Jews.

The Israelis have won their wars, yet not only are there Palestinians left there are more of them than ever. You see, Bob, one of the hallmarks, the sine qua non of genocide is that there are fewer of the targeted people after the genocide than before. Isn't that right? Sure it is. Well, Bob, is the Palestinian population increasing or decreasing. It's increasing isn't it.

Now, Bob, and I hope it's all right to call you Bob, this is where your thesis has heaved up on rocky shoals. Here is why.

There are three (3) basic laws of logic. They are the Law of Identity, the Law of the Excluded Middle, and the Law of Non-Contradiction. The third, the Law of Non-Contradiction is of interest for us. Briefly stated it goes like this:

A thing cannot be itself and not itself at the same time and in the same way.

So, if a decrease in population is necessary for genocide, A, and the population of Palestinians in increasing, B, you may not conclude that there is genocide being practiced. It violates the Law of Non-Contradiction and is therefore absurd. Just like you, Bob,just like you.
161

57Nomad,

california` 26/01/2008 21:07:09
#153 bob

bob said:

"If the writer had known they were speaking to someone called Suck the sentence would have been "So, how's it going Suck?" without the second comma."

I'm afraid not. The writer is correct and you are mistaken. It's an easy proposition to settle. The test is this, if you move Suck from the end of the sentence and place it at the beginning the correct form would be, "Suck, so how's it going." Not, "Suck so hows it going."
162

,

26/01/2008 21:51:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
163

right of center,

Chicago 26/01/2008 22:05:06
Djookers, It’s hysterical that you think you can compete in 57Nomads “Weight or Mental” class. Obviously 57Nomad has one had behind his back because you're no competition.
164

right of center,

Chicago 26/01/2008 22:05:58
Should be one "hand" behind his back
165

Mine's an 80 bob,

The US is crap 26/01/2008 22:15:03
#161 nuts

this boy does try.

Move the words any way you want loser, the construction of the sentence is the key to what questions are, or are not being asked. To make your wee trick look like it worked you had to drop a comma. As a result your second example ends up with no comma's at all and makes no sense grammatically or otherwise.

"Suck so hows it going."

care to explain what this is meant to mean.

Typical loser, you lost in Vietnam and you've been losing ever since. You can't even get a decent cheerleader, R.O.C at 163 just made himself and you look bad because he is to dumb to figure out what the preview button is for.






166

Lynne,

USA 26/01/2008 22:42:57
We didn't lose in Viet Nam ..the Democrats pulled us out. We never lost a skirmish, a fight or anything else over there. Unfortunately we lost a lot of soldiers.
But because you can say that now, is why we won't pull out of Iraq till the job is done...unless the Democrats get back in office!!
167

Mine's an 80 bob,

The US is crap 26/01/2008 23:13:35
#156 daffy

don't worry daffy, I did not forget you. BTW, no luck that you got the second half of dumb and dumber trying to answer on your behalf at #161.

but here goes

daffy says

"Why does Finnking outing Roberta Burns as a troll bother you, Mine's a Bob 80?"

Finnking didn't "out" anyone, you tried to twist his words, and the punctuation, so you could claim he did. I just pointed out what you did.

As for the reasons you did it, I gave you a choice.

Personally don't think its your poor grasp of english, as you manage to construct the sentence properly this time.
Seeing as you asked , I am Mine's an 80 bob, and am not to be confused with anyone else you may think I am. I am certainly not the person known as Suck McCrunchie, and please dont ever think i'm nomad, that really would be an insult.

"Yeah, calling someone names and posting personal information is a sure way to get them to join a site."

As far as personal information goes, I know you have a beef with certain people. The only personal stuff *I* have ANY knowledge of is the private mail of someone that nomad posted on one thread. The Scotsman had to take the whole thread down as a result of that.

As for names, if you cant take it, dont dish it out :-)
168

,

26/01/2008 23:19:06
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Reason:
169

right of center,

Chicago 26/01/2008 23:19:53
#166 Lynn

Pay no attention to Djookers, he is proud to put next to his name "The US is crap" He is only here to inflame the situation, and is talking out of his a**. His arrogance has no bounds. Just sit back and watch him dig his hole even deeper.
170

,

26/01/2008 23:22:23
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Reason:
171

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/01/2008 23:49:55
# 166

"But because you can say that now, is why we won't pull out of Iraq till the job is done..."

.....Wouldn't it have been much cheaper to have BOUGHT the oil in the first instance?
172

,

26/01/2008 23:55:54
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173

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/01/2008 02:10:35
# 166

After starting the VietNam conflict with the US on a flaky basis, just like the Iraq conflict, dropping more bomb tonnage on the country than was dropped by ALL the participants of WWII in all the theatres of war, killing in the region of 3,000,000 men women and children, massacreing whole villages of innocent women and children, you say the US didn't lose that war?

The US deserved to lose that war, on a moral basis if nothing else.

The same mistakes have been repeated in Iraq.
174

right of center,

Chicago 27/01/2008 02:19:34
173 Let's spread hate,Queensland

It appears you were brainwashed at the same socialist schools as Djookers.

175

57Nomad,

california 27/01/2008 02:25:40
#162 bobs

bobs, flummoxed by his inability to slip his weak business past anyone tries the following.

After being thumped by getting his 'genocide' argument shoved back down his throat, he transparently tries to evade embarrassment by introducing a previously undiscussed topic as if that would take peoples attention away from the fact that he has failed to make any argument at all for his ridiculous 'genocide' nonsense. Observe:

"In an attempt to dig himself out of the hole he dropped himself in nuts blusters
"The Israelis have won their wars,"
so the reason they continue to bomb palestine is??
I think its safe to say the attempt at genocide is still ongoing, so the juries still out on that one."



This has nothing to do with what was being discussed. What was being discussed is whether or not an the Nazi death camps could be compared to Israel. The case under discussion in response to my observation that if the Israel's were practicing genocide it would be quite clear because they would have killed all the Palestinians. Yet when one looks around, not only are there Palestinian but that their numbers are increasing.

From this, my pal Aristotle concludes that either the Nazis were not practicing genocide because they didn't kill all the Jews and I said that the Israels hadn't killed all the Palestinians that I must conclude that either the Israelis are practicing genocide or that the Nazi's weren't. This is simply a fabricated claim, unsubstantiated and silly. No such conclusion can be drawn and he knows it.

I then pointed out to him the obvious differences between the two. Among them were the fact that the Palestinian population was increasing while the jewish population of Europe was decremented by 6 million. Not quite the same thing. In fact if a population is increasing no case can be made for genocide whatsoever. If the target population is increasing then there is no genocide by definition. You see, he has no answer and tries to avo
176

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/01/2008 02:35:09
# 174

....Evidently the truth is an alien concept to you.
177

right of center,

Chicago 27/01/2008 02:50:34
#176 Let's have the truth,Socialism 101

....I know you are but what am I?
178

57Nomad,

california 27/01/2008 03:16:05
#175 contd.

You see, he has no answer and tries to avoid being exposed by introducing a new topic.

Then this, "I think its safe to say the attempt at genocide is still ongoing" You may think as you please, Scooter, your opinion has no bearing at all on the facts. Who cares what you think"? You cannot make a case for genocide because the elements that comprise genocide are absent.

The reason that he and his crowd bang the genocide drum is this. Genocide was the crime committed against the Jewish people and he is attempting to turn this on its head by accusing the Jews of doing the same thing. The fact the neither he nor his comrades can make a case for this doesn't matter to them. From their prospective all that furthers their cause is good and true. They don't let the fact that it is clear to every one that the Israelis are not practicing genocide get in their way. If it is good for them that the Israelis do it then it's true. Reality counts for nothing.

Now for the really good stuff:

bob commenting on my previous post:

"In his original post at 6 nuts says:
"If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."
In 160, he changes his definition of genocide to suit the arguement he is tryng to make.
"You see, Bob, one of the hallmarks, the sine qua non of genocide is that there are fewer of the targeted people after the genocide than before. Isn't that right?"
So which is it nuts, does genocide mean they all die or just some of them.
Who is contradicting themselves now loser."

Please read bobs lament carefully. You will notice that once again he changes my words to suit his purposes.

Here is what I said:

" If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."

and then I said:

"the sine qua non of genocide is that there are fewer of the targeted people after the genocide than before."

A child can see that there is no contradiction here. If yo
179

Lynne,

USA 27/01/2008 03:31:06
TW..are there pictures of the Arabs surrounding Israel ready to pounce?
I'm tired of hearing about Irgun...as tired as you are hearing about the 5 wars, count them 5, started by the Arabs and won by the Israelis.
If the Arabs had accepted their state in 1948!!! we would not be doing this now.
Instead they start wars.

180

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 03:53:20
#172 - Whomever

>”Your country spent 20 some years fighting in the place and you can't even get the name right. Its "Vietnam", one word. http://www.vietnam.com .”

Suck, for a guy that seems to be tied up in the pettiness of commas and spelling, please let me point out that your conjunction ITS is improper! ITS is two words, the combination of IT and IS, and should have an apostrophe between IT and IS.

It should be “It’s “Vietnam”, one word…”

Normally, I dismiss what I call ‘typo’s’ and encourage others to do so also. But since it seems to be the ‘high point’ in your recent discussions, I thought I’d point out how you seem to come up ‘a wee bit short’ of your own standard.

Perhaps you should focus on your discussion points instead of micro-examining typos.
181

britfree,

camelon 27/01/2008 04:15:27
better fun ripping the thingy out of zionism than any other fascistic ideology i know. am i suck? can i be suck this time ? incoherent post nomad ya gonad youre a post deleter you just dont like admitting it
182

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 04:25:41
#181 - Britfree

sinceyouaresuckitshouldbeeasyforyoutobesuckall
youhavetodoistopretendtobeadifferentpersonand
comeupwithastylethathethinksisdifferentenough
togetpeopletothinkthatitisacreditablepersonand
foolhimselfbutnotanyoneelse.
183

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 04:30:33
#181 - Britfree

So britfree, I see that, like Suck, you post at 4:15 AM Scotland time.

It seems you, like Suck, keep 'New World' hours. Why is that?
184

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 04:32:56
#181 - Britfree

So how's the social life in Camelon at 4:15 in a winter morning? Are you out waking up roosters?
185

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 04:46:46
#181 - britfree

Since, for some reason, you don't think that people can figure out a CLOCK, let me give you some handy excuses as to why you are up at 04:45 on a mid-January Sunday morning:

1. Night shift Whiskey taster at 'Cutty Sark'
2. Night shift Security watching CCTV cameras at the 'Dewar's distillery.

3. Floor cleaner looking for left-over beer in glasses at 'The Tollbooth' Pub in Falkirk.

4. Canadian w@nker pretending to be a Scot on 'The Scotsman'.

5. Milkman with a laptop and a satellite dish atop the truck.

6. Unemployed American college student that wants to be first in line for the new semester!

7. Sweeping the grounds in preparation for the Falkirk v Hibs fixture later today.

Please, provide us with another, more entertaining piece of fiction!
186

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 07:10:50
#172 - Whomever

>”Your country spent 20 some years fighting in the place and you can't even get the name right. Its "Vietnam", one word. http://www.vietnam.com .”

It’s correct either way. Shia are also called Shiite; Quadaffi can also be al-Gaddafi or Ghadafi. Viet Nam was used by American media throughout the war, here’s Time Magazine:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,897860,00.html?promoid=googlep

This is just mere pettiness on your part, unnecessary if you have valid points.

>”After your army, navy and air force had been booted out of Vietnam by a bunch of peasants with Kalashnikovs…

Wiki ‘Vietnam War’ (it can be spelled either way) and the first thing you see is a Russian T-34 tank, hardly the stuff of ‘peasants with Kalashnikovs’ – and clearly showing your statement to be incorrect. For some reason you felt you needed to avoid mentioning the role of the Soviet Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

Do you feel that understating the side you are ‘rooting’ for and then alluding to the US forces being ‘CIA Agents’ somehow strengthens your position? If so, you are incorrect.

187

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 07:12:39
#172 - Whomever

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

Read down to the ‘United States goes to War’ part where you’ll find this: “Lyndon Johnson, more concerned with his great society and social progressive programs, did not consider Vietnam a priority as he took over the presidency after the death of Kennedy.”

Quite clearly, the liberal party (Democrats) got us in and the conservative party (Republicans) got us out.

And again, from Wiki:

1,373 U.S. citizens and 5,595 Vietnamese and third country nationals were evacuated by military and Air America helicopters to U.S. Navy ships off-shore in an approximately 24-hour period on April 29 to 30, 1975, immediately preceding the fall of Saigon. Protecting the evacuation force on the ground in South Vietnam were combat elements of the 9th Marine Amphibious Brigade, including the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines and 2nd Battalion 9th Marines (which would two weeks later be engaged in the rescue of the SS Mayaguez).

So ‘on the ground’ in Saigon were two Marine Battalions and a Marine Brigade. Flying above were military and ‘Air America’ (CIA paid) pilots. Clearly, again, you don’t seem capable of presenting the complete story.

Your curious propensity to misstate things continues - although private contractors were flying some helicopters, the US military (Army, Navy and Marines) were also. You did stumble across the truth when you stated that ‘Air America’ was funded by the CIA, but that’s a good thing.

Remember, the role of the CIA is to upset Leftists, Communists and Socialists, aka ‘CommSocs’, around the world – and they’re doing a fine job of it! Good for the CIA!
188

57Nomad,

california 27/01/2008 07:53:45
#178 contd.

If you begin the evening with a hundred dollars and spend every penny of it, is it all gone? What about this, you began the evening with a Benji, and ended it with nothing, would have more dollars or fewer dollars than you started with. So, we can see that there is no contradiction at all. The bobster has stepped in it once again.

Who ever it is that runs bobs little group should recruit some smarter guys because you clowns are out of your depth. What do you call someone who claims that 'all gone,' and 'fewer' are contradictory? There is a word for such a person: loser
189

57Nomad,

california` 27/01/2008 08:18:30
#181 bf

bf said:

"incoherent post nomad ya gonad youre a post deleter you just dont like admitting it"

Incoherent? Just to you, moron, just to you. Post deleter? Are you completely insane. Look, Jasper, you don't delete posts like yours. You print them on flyers and hand them out. You spam the internet with them because they, like you, are idiotic. Why would I want a joke like you taken off the board? I call attention to them. You may think that you are scoring points, Slick, but you are deluding yourself. Neither you nor any of your comrades have any idea how to construct an argument. You are a lightweight and everyone who reads yours posts can tell in an instant.

Here's another hint for you. Do you think we can't remember the your litany of anathema? First it was neo-con, then Guantanamo, now its Zionist. That kind of sloganeering had its high water mark with, "all power to the soviets." That was almost a hundred years ago and you losers haven't thought of anything new since.
190

Mine's an 80 bob,

The US is crap 27/01/2008 09:24:20
#175 and 178 nuts

nuts shuffles on stage again, mumbling to himself. Out of all the mumbling come a few feeble responses.

First up he claims I am "introducing a previously undiscussed topic", said topic being "The Israelis have won their wars," something HE introduced in post #160.

All I did was ask him a question about it "so the reason they continue to bomb palestine is??

He then mumbles on for several paragraphs while NOT answering the question. before claiming

"Now for the really good stuff:", which he goes on to claim is me changing his words to suit my purposes.

He then REPEATS the two examples I had used, which stripped down to there core meanings are

nuts says genocide = all dead
and
nuts later says genocide = most, but not all dead

He concludes the whole long winded diatribe with

"A child can see that there is no contradiction here"

He then exits the stage, still mumbling

191

Mine's an 80 bob,

The US is crap 27/01/2008 09:38:12
#180 daffy

daffy, what can I say but, mea culpa. I missed an apostrophe. One in this case that abbreviates two words. The sentence still made sense though, which is way different from changing the structure and meaning of a sentence, by dropping a comma, or in nuts case two.

Which reminds me, he never did explain what "Suck so hows it going" was meant to mean, must ask him
192

Mine's an 80 bob,

The US is crap 27/01/2008 09:44:53
#161 nuts
still waiting for an answer to the question I put at #165
To save you scrolling up here it is again

"Move the words any way you want loser, the construction of the sentence is the key to what questions are, or are not being asked. To make your wee trick look like it worked you had to drop a comma. As a result your second example ends up with no comma's at all and makes no sense grammatically or otherwise.

"Suck so hows it going."

care to explain what this is meant to mean."
193

Mine's an 80 bob,

The US is crap 27/01/2008 10:04:11
#188 nuts

nuts says

"Who ever it is that runs bobs little group should recruit some smarter guys because you clowns are out of your depth."

Which group is this?

nuts then says

"What do you call someone who claims that 'all gone,' and 'fewer' are contradictory? There is a word for such a person: loser"

nuts, just for you i'm going to do this in a way that even a child could understand.

If I had £100 and spent £50 of it, I would have FEWER £ than I started with but I would still have £50 left. It would not be all gone. If it was ALL GONE I would have no £ left.

Hopefully you can see where you contradicted yourself now
nuts says genocide = no £ left
nuts then says genocide = £50 left

Now I realise that a career that has gone from standing guard on the barbermobile in downtown Da Nang all the way to hot air balloon inflator may not have equipped you for this this kind fact based discussion, but if your going to do it and have people like right of center at 163 hero worshipping you, you need to do way better than you are managing up to now.
194

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/01/2008 10:32:52
# 160

"The only reason that there are any Jews left in the world has one single cause. Germany lost the war and were forced to cease their slaughter of the Jews".

.....So by this reckoning, ALL the Jews in the world were under the control of the Germans. Come on, there were Jews in the UK, the US, USSR, Australia and as has been claimed, even that land that is now known as Israel.

One single cause????????????
195

Lynne,

USA 27/01/2008 10:39:37
#193

What has brought you back here? Nothing going on at that other sight? If all you can do is give us an English lesson...and wrong at that..
I spell honor..H O N O R you spell it H O N O U R.. and I haven't made fun of you yet..
Get to the issue or go back to that other site.
196

Lynne,

USA 27/01/2008 10:44:11
right of center..It should not take him long at all.
197

,

27/01/2008 13:34:09
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198

,

27/01/2008 15:10:49
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199

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 27/01/2008 16:57:59
#185 daffy

you say

"Since, for some reason, you don't think that people can figure out a CLOCK, let me give you some handy excuses as to why you are up at 04:45 on a mid-January Sunday morning:"

I used to ask the same questions of a poster called Nightworker. Claimed to work nights in the St Enoch centre in Glasgow, even though the place is closed. It was his cover for posting in the middle of the night here. Dont think he was britfree though, Nightworker was a pure neocon nutter.
200

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 27/01/2008 16:59:35
#186 daffy

You want to chop up country names, fine by me. From now on America (which is what your call your country, even though it properly descibes a continent) shall henceforth be known by me as Ame Rica, sort of like Puerto Rico, insignificant but a bit further north.

Thanks for the link to Time, just goes to show how crap at FACTS most Ame Rican news sources are, fox being one of the worst. Maybe that's why you guys get it wrong so much.

True the russians armed the NVA, just like Ame Rica armed the south. In 1941 the T34 was the best tank in the field, but by the end of WWII it was an also ran. By the 60's it was way down the list, and although the NVA had them, it was mostly the peasants with Kalashnikovs that won the war.

As for your contention that I "needed to avoid mentioning the role of the Soviet Union.". They provided arms as did Ame Rica, but they did not commit any of there military to the conflict, and certainly not to the point where they required an extended draft.

As for which side I am "rooting" for, that would be history and facts. The CIA agents I will deal with in my next answer.
201

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 27/01/2008 17:03:22
#187 daffy

daffy quotes a huge chunk of the wikipedia entry about the Vietnam war in his post at #187. He does this to provide proof that the Ame Rican military was on the ball at the fall of Saigon. Having provided what he thinks is the proof he needs to rebutt what I had said in post #172, he states:

"Your curious propensity to misstate things continues - although private contractors were flying some helicopters, the US military (Army, Navy and Marines) were also. You did stumble across the truth when you stated that ‘Air America’ was funded by the CIA, but that’s a good thing.

Unfortunately all the proof he provides is for nothing, simply because he did read my post properly.

Here it is again daffy, have another read. Do you see were I clearly stated I was talking about the LAST 5 HOURS of the evacuation, not once but twice. All the military resources you claim in your quote, were pulled out before the evacuation was complete, on orders from the Pentagon. In those last 5 hours only the civilian pilots of Air Ame Rica, were there, pulling people out.

"After your army, navy and air force had been booted out of Vietnam by a bunch of peasants with kalashnikovs, your country was left with the task of evacuating your diplomats from the embassy in Saigon.
In the last 5 hours of that evacuation, the helicopters that picked those people up from the compound and roof of the embassy were flown by:
A. Army pilots
B. Navy pilots
C. Air force pilots
D. Civilian mercenaries in the pay of the CIA

If you choose D you would have been correct. For the last 5 hours of the evacuation a whole Navy task force, including thousands of marines sat offshore from Saigon, while paid mercenaries employed by air america flew the helicopters in and out. The situation having been deemed too dangerous by the top brass at the pentagon "to risk the lives of US military personnel".

You can be assured I did not "stumble" across anything.
202

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 17:31:17
#201 - Whomever

>"Unfortunately all the proof he provides is for nothing, simply because he did read my post properly."

Yes, unfortunately I DID read your post properly, as you state.

Which is why they are so easy to discredit, as they are nonsense. You're still the joke of the internet, Suck.

You forgot the word forgot the word 'NOT'.

Which, as you state, would change the entire meaning of the sentence. Typical goofy hypocrite, you blast others for commas then leave out entire words!

You are so stttuuppiiiiid!
203

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 17:59:06
#201 - Whomever

>"Unfortunately all the proof he provides is for nothing, simply because he did read my post properly."

Apparently you have trouble articulating your statements, it's clear to see that the same applies to your grasping of articles you read - and your understanding of events in the Gaza.

You started this micro-examination of statements when you came up with your 'comma defense', which doesn't hold water. Now you are trapped in your own petard.

Why don't you get off the typos and just address the point?

There is an article today at:

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Gaza-chaos-leaves-38-Egyptians.3715453.jp

Obviously the peaceful, fun-loving people of Gaza are not the victims that you portray them as being, leaving 38 injured Egyptians in their wake.
204

britfree,

camelon 27/01/2008 19:01:20
the irony is i was doin some of that stuff daffy or was it gonad sa id i was going to do i went to see my green soccer team put one in the goalbag against local team falkirk my hibs/celtics won way to go ! our offence were better and this post proves i aint no canuck neither. grow up ,there must be something better you could to get some cash
205

britfree,

camelon 27/01/2008 19:08:25
eighty shillin' ehm thon canadian boy whit daffy wiz goan on aboot watch fir him him finnkeeng says the boys a ginger
206

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 20:22:56
#204 -

>"do i went to see my green soccer team put one in the goalbag against local team falkirk my hibs/celtics won way to go !

Well, you got one thing right, you root for the right teams! I stopped in on my last visit to the Celtic Store on Sauchiehall, went thru the store and downstairs to the back and got a nice Celtic Home Jersey. I'm wearing it as I type.

My Hibs Jersey just arrived last week.
207

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 20:29:57
#204 -

>"grow up ,there must be something better you could to get some cash"

Take the time to see what kind of retirement that California firefighters in the Bay Area get before you embarrass yourself further.
208

57Nomad,

california 27/01/2008 21:03:50
#190 bobs

Bobs said:

"nuts says genocide = all dead
and
nuts later says genocide = most, but not all dead

Bobs you see, is a lying snake. I urge everyone to reread the thread. I never said anything of the kind, so bob, unfamiliar with the basics of informed discourse tried to weasel out of his untenable position by trying to say that the terms "nothing" and "fewer" are contradictory.

That's why I love bob and encourage everyone to read his posts. Look, he gives away his true identity in his name, he isn't just bob, the fuzzy thinker, nope this guy is famous. He is, and I know you wonder where he's been, none other than Baghdad Bob, Sadams public relations expert and genius spokesman from the war. You will be glad to know he hasn't changed a bit.
209

,

27/01/2008 21:21:26
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Reason:
210

Dáithí,

San Jose 27/01/2008 22:12:47
You made a big deal out of how 'Viet Nam was spelled, as if it was some big deal. You were shown that it was fine either way.

All you've been doing from then on is name calling, your usual response when embarrassed.

BTW, what requirement is there to use the word 'petard' in a way you prefer? Nope, just a bitter little man - a petard, so to speak.
211

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27/01/2008 22:21:52
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212

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 27/01/2008 22:37:14
#210 daffy from Ame Rica


"BTW, what requirement is there to use the word 'petard' in a way you prefer?

Not my preference sunshine, that is the accepted saying. You use it anyway you want, you look stupid doing it your way though. Your choice.
213

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 27/01/2008 22:41:43
#208 nuts

nuts is getting desperate now. The contradiction is so obvious that he cant disprove it, so what does he do. He copies and pastes what I said and then calls me a lying snake before urging everyone to check the thread. He provides no proof, just smoke and mirrors.

By the way, anyone who checks the thread will notice #162 was deleted, strange that! but if you need a copy to help follow all this, just say so in a post.

He then thinks he will try to ridicule me, a form of attack used in debating when you have nothing left in the locker, which is so well known that he has even posted about its use in the past. So he trys to associate the "bob" in my name with the the bumbling baghdad bob of Iraq war fame.

Unfortunately he runs into the sentence stucturing comma thing again, something that has bedivilled him right through this thread.

So here we go with comma 101, again!, just for nuts, again!

Here is the name I use on here, "Mine's an 80 bob" take out the one comma that there is and it becomes "Mine is an 80 bob". Left as it is there is no way of distinguishing the name "bob". To do that you would need another comma, as in "Mine is an 80, bob".

No comma and the whole thing has to be taken in its entirety, eg: talking about your car, "Mine is an Oldsmobile" or in a bar when asked what you want, the reply could be "Mine is a bud" or "Mine is an 80 bob" abbreviated to "Mine's an 80 bob"

Here you go nuts, read the bit on shilling ales, then ponder the fact that knowing what your talking about gives you far more chance of winning the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_beer

"(/- is read as "shilling" or "bob" as in "a pint of eighty-bob, please")"

and if you ever make it to Scotland you can buy me a pint of 80 bob, until then, and probably after, you will always be my favourite loser
214

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28/01/2008 00:53:46
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28/01/2008 01:00:26
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28/01/2008 01:10:41
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28/01/2008 01:12:15
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28/01/2008 01:13:17
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28/01/2008 01:17:37
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britfree,

camelon 28/01/2008 01:24:41
night worker pssst that britfree he needs it too . give it to him delete delete delete
222

right of center,

Chicago 28/01/2008 04:03:00
What's gotten into Finnking? He sounds like Suck McCrunchie wanting to give out peoples names and addresses, how pitiful.
223

britfree,

the west bank o' the dichty 28/01/2008 16:20:40
whats this thing aboot suck it was only a handle he used until his dislike of british nationalim made him abusive (quite right too!) then when they couldnt stand having the thingy ripped oot ahy them mair the scotsmans unionist editors had him bumped icant remember anything else (spooky fae leith tell't me this soes it must true) anyway remove the zionits then we'll have peace
224

right of center,

Chicago 28/01/2008 22:17:45
Hey! Finnkings #214 threat to 57Nomad has been deleted, Nomad if you want to see his threats toward you let me know as I saved a back up of the posts from last night.
225

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 02:30:28
#224 roc

Thank you. I would be interested in seeing them. I just finished working and haven't had a chance to follow up with last night fun. Personally I can't do anything but chuckle at the thought of seeing the look on his face if he ever saw me in person. "and his face at first just ghostly, turned a whiter shade of pale." with apologies to Procol Harum. He has no idea whatsoever. Like GC he pictures me as a crotchety old man. Some mistakes you walk away from, some you don't.

I have to finish some work for the county that is taking every second of time I have, but around March I'm going to swing by GC's place in Murietta, it's only about half an hour from my house and say howdy. GC, having then eyeballed the real deal, can give the bad news to fins. This is going to be fun.
226

right of center,

Chicago 29/01/2008 03:33:26
Nomad

As requested, I "X"'ed out what he believes is your last name.

ROC



214 Finnking,Lempäälä 28/01/2008 00:53:46
208
57Nomad
Please be my friend and let me have your email address so we can talk and then, if i'm lucky, you will respond to me and then, when I refuse to give you all my details that you ask for, you will post my communication with you on this site.

Pleeese Nomad!

Oh, sorry, you asked me before to "chat off line" and I told you to take a hike. Oops!

As for all the macho crap above, Mr. Wxxxxxx, you really are a sad act. Do the Perfect Spellers' Club's kids' parents fully comprehend your views on Muslim women? Perhaps they are unaware of your evident instability that was evident in your "I will write the word Nazi with your teeth" remark?

I will find your address eventually, nobrain, and will inform the authorities in your area about your views on women and minorities. Delete the comments? Har har. I have copies, Nobrain.

To post private correspondence on this site was the dumbest thing you could possibly do, old man. An act of incomprehensible deceit. Your innate misogyny has created your downfall; your character flaw has finally caused a rift in your life (it was bound to come out, do you feel relieved now?). Your egotistic attempt to impress will be your downfall. Enjoy!

Sinä olet paskapää ja kaikki, te tiedavät sen.
227

right of center,

Chicago 29/01/2008 03:35:15
I just happened to make a back up of 109 on.
228

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 05:20:24
#165 bob,

bob said:

"Move the words any way you want loser, the construction of the sentence is the key to what questions are, or are not being asked. To make your wee trick look like it worked you had to drop a comma. As a result your second example ends up with no comma's at all and makes no sense grammatically or otherwise."

Well, bob, you don't have anything to do with how an English sentence is properly constructed. I'm tired of toying with you because you are bombast with nothing to back it up, like getting hit with a puff of smoke. I hope you're hungry because I'm going to shove your 'loser' remark right down your throat. After you swallow let us know if it tasted like chicken.

Because the speaker (writer) is addressing Suck, the sentence is considered to be a nominative of direct address. In this case it is Suck that is being addressed.

Here is the formal rule with a couple of examples:

Commas set off nominatives of direct address.
• She said, “You know, Joe, your marsupial is loose.”
• Susan, where did you hide my potato peeler?

Now go hang your tiny little head that holds your tiny little peabrain in shame. You don't have the right stuff, lightweight (this is an example of a nominative of direct address, try to keep up).

And,to quote the one and only Long John Baldry, numbskull, "Don't try to lay no booogie wooogie on the King of Rock and Roll."

ps those words might taste better with a little salt, loser.

229

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 06:58:18
#226 ROC

Thank you for the reprint. I think it should have been left in, myself, but that's for the editors to decide. Nonetheless, because it's there to refer to, thanks to you, I can continue to respond.

Let's begin, in #214, the finnsterino says:

"As for all the macho crap above, Mr. Williams, you really are a sad act. Do the Perfect Spellers' Club's kids' parents fully comprehend your views on Muslim women? Perhaps they are unaware of your evident instability that was evident in your "I will write the word Nazi with your teeth" remark?"

Now, here is my response.

If you have seen the photo I sent of my students and me you will notice one girl wearing a hijab. To the far right you will see her sister. Their family and they are refugees from Afghanistan.

They left when your pals the Russians came in and shot the place up. The older girl was born in a refugee camp in Pakistan. I have known them for six years and their family and mine are close friends. It was during dinner with them one night when their father told everyone the joke about the burqas.

I will pass along your reaction along with the following information to him. I will explain to him your love affair with the Russians that drove his family out of their home. Then I will comment on your disagreement with US policy about forcing the Taliban out of power. It is apparently agreeable with you to see women degraded by the burqa, to have them stoned to death in a soccer stadium for the crime of being a woman and going to the pharmacist, though in a burqa, without an escort from a male member of her family. The father is an MD, educated and sophisticated, lost a member of his family to Taliban goon squads for shaving.

I repeated a joke. You are actively promoting the success of the despoilers of the countryside and the subjugation of women to a degree that would shock a decent person. That's why it doesn't shock you. And you have the nerve to cast me as a misogynist? You are th
230

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 07:00:03
#229 contd.

You are the one that doesn't care about our sisters in Afghanistan. You are the one cheering on those who who burn girls schools and ambush their school buses. And you have the gall to threaten me?

You and your pal bobby are losing your minds right in front of everybody. You, Finns, are camping out on the edge of reality and before long someone is going to come after you with a net.

231

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 07:05:19
#230 contd.

Now as for this, and I've got to say this is my favorite part of my favorite post since I began to read this forum. That is saying something because you were up against Wally's contention that not being able to produce a single name or shred of evidence was absolute proof of a conspiracy.

Watch, thrillseekers as Finereeneedo drives his car into the wall, fast.

Finnking says:

"I will find your address eventually, nobrain, and will inform the authorities in your area about your views on women and minorities. Delete the comments? Har har. I have copies, Nobrain."

You cretin! "The authorities" where I live know all about me and my views on women and minorities. And by the way, weasel, where are you getting the 'minorities' deal from? You just threw it in there, thoughtlessly, didn't you? You have no basis in fact, derived from anything I have ever written, to include that, you pathetic skunk.

Like your buddy, bobie, I will shove your words right back down the throat that resides in your skinny little pencil neck.

I will send a photo, although I believe I already did that will give you a quick painful education. The reason that the 'authorities' know all about my views on women and minorities and that is the reason that the City and County where I live quite often solicit my help.

The Perfect Spellers Club that you so foolishly referred to was a project that I did on behalf of the City where I live and the largest youth organization in America. I developed the Perfect Spellers Club to provide the children in a city sponsored low income apartment complex an opportunity to achieve academic success and to involve their parents in the process. I started the club in March of 2002 and it lasted one year, til March 2003.

I personally administered the program. I was there every day Monday through Saturday for a year. This I did pro bono. Furthermore, I bore the entire expense myself. The population of the complex was about 80% b
232

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 07:23:06
#231 contd.

The population of the complex was about 80% black, 15% Hispanic, and 5% miscellaneous.

In March of 2002 we started with 5 members, we ended with over 50. The director of the facility said, "It was like a miracle." I have letters of praise and thanks from every institution involved. The club received enough interest that the members and I were invited to the most prestigious institution of neuroscience and molecular biology in the world. The visit was capped off by a forty five minute visit, in his office, of a gentleman who won the Nobel Prize. Here is the motto of the Perfect Spellers Club.

"The big help the small

The fast help the slow

The strong help the weak

How do we do this? Voluntarily!

Why do we do this? Because we are Americans and that's

the way we do it in America "

That's what I do for women and minorities. What do you do? Have you ever so much as lifted a finger except to write your disordered and deranged passages of bile and venom? What do you do, big mouth, that entitles you to criticize and threaten me? What do you do that makes you worth the oxygen you breathe. I showed you what I do. Show me what you do or shut your mouth once and for all and vanish.

You don't have to find the authorities I will take your ridiculous screed and show it to them myself, creep. Hey, you can hire a skywriter if you want to and have him write it in smoke over the city. You are a nothing loser with nothing to say and not one single thing to contribute to society.

Let me give it to you straight. I'm a better man than you are. There's not much more to it than that.
233

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29/01/2008 09:59:25
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29/01/2008 10:00:53
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29/01/2008 10:16:50
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236

Hemingway,

29/01/2008 14:12:28
Scotsman, this pathetic "Mine's an 80 bob is such a Troll" Why do you allow him to keep posting?
237

Lynne,

USA 29/01/2008 16:16:46
^^+1 Nomad...I am giving you a standing ovation. Hopefully these "people" (I really don't think they are human) just disappear.
238

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 16:22:30
#235 bob

bob said:

"Move the words any way you want loser, the construction of the sentence is the key to what questions are, or are not being asked."

This, in case you haven't been keeping up, is this guy bob's answer to a discussion we were having regarding the placement of comma's. The bobster claimed one construction and used that claim to slag another poster
regarding that posters knowledge of proper English. When I pointed out to bob that he was in error he replied with a rude post to my innocuous comment.

I happen to know the rule that bob didn't but thought he did. He expressed himself forcefully but his arrogance allowed me to string him along for a couple of more posts wherein he made a bigger and bigger fool of himself. My favorite part was his disparaging remarks about me personally, gifting me with tag of 'loser.'

contiued in next post

239

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 16:23:48
contd from #238

At that point his ability to communicate, never his strong suit, collapsed completely and the ole' bobareeno fired off another post so poorly strung together and incomprehensible that if James Joyce read it he'd be scratching his head and saying, 'What the $&*# is this guy drinking.' During this entire discussion he was insisting, and only God know why, that he was the superior intellect and that I, as befitting my station in life and country of origin, was a "loser," and stating that view repeatedly and vehemently.

At that point his lack of creativity and faltering vocabulary began to lose its comic appeal and become tedious. So, I lowered the boom on his pointy little noggin and stated the rule regarding proper punctuation and invited him to feast on his words, and if he wouldn't that I would happily feed them to him. I will now cite the posts, including the final one in which he omitted that to mention that he had lost and lost badly, loudly, and publicly and offered to beat me up, the tragic descent from human to troglodyte now mournfully complete.

Here are the posts, read them and chuckle. #235; #228; #192, #193m about which I have more to say, #161, #213, #153

153
161
192
193, more to come on this one
213
228
235
240

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 16:27:43
here is a repost of my 233/234 going to delete it again chicken nomad

#228 nuts

I knew you would be back. One day later as always. Hoping that those who have proved you wrong will have forgotten the thread and you can have the last word, because your vanity drives you to always have the last word, even if it's wrong.

Try this for a puff of smoke Mr "King of Rock and Roll"

The whole thing starts with Finnking at #115 who said:

So, how's it going, suck?

at #139 daffy jumps in claiming:

What a surprise - Suck is 'outed' as a troll by Finnking. Big shock there, let me tell you.

in #153 (now deleted, strangely) I point out daffys error.

If the writer had known they were speaking to someone called Suck the sentence would have been "So, how's it going Suck?" without the second comma.

The writer inserts the comma to break the sentence into two questions, firstly "how's it going" and then secondly "Suck? as he is enquiring if the person he is replying to is the poster who also uses the name Suck.


at #161 nuts jumps to his alter ego daffys defense with

I'm afraid not. The writer is correct and you are mistaken. It's an easy proposition to settle. The test is this, if you move Suck from the end of the sentence and place it at the beginning the correct form would be, "Suck, so how's it going." Not, "Suck so hows it going."


And now we have this from nuts:

"Because the speaker (writer) is addressing Suck, the sentence is considered to be a nominative of direct address. In this case it is Suck that is being addressed.

Here is the formal rule with a couple of examples:

Commas set off nominatives of direct address.
• She said, “You know, Joe, your marsupial is loose.”
• Susan, where did you hide my potato peeler?"

Note the comma nuts is on about in his second example the one with the QUESTION MARK at the end.
241

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29/01/2008 16:28:58
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242

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 16:37:08
#237 lynne

lynne said

"^^+1 Nomad...I am giving you a standing ovation. Hopefully these "people" (I really don't think they are human) just disappear.

Is that you talking about the palestians again lynne, or do you think everyone in the world that disagrees with you is not human.

Read 240 and 241 and find out how much your boy shot himself in the foot, quick before he deletes it again
243

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 16:51:59
#237 lynne

See no-nuts list lynne

Here are the posts, read them and chuckle. #235; #228; #192, #193m about which I have more to say, #161, #213, #153

153
161
192
193, more to come on this one
213
228
235

notice how he missed out 115 and 139, doesnt want every one to get the whole story especially the original

"So, how's it going, suck?"

which he attempts to rubbish in his post at #161

but which funnily enough he s in total agreement with in #228

all as pointed out in #233 and repeated in #241

funny how he didn't want anyone, even you, to read those first 2 posts.

Now HE is the one left to "go hang his tiny little head that holds his tiny little peabrain in shame. He will never have the right stuff, he never did, he makes a lightweight look heavy.

All he can do now is run round like a chicken, kicking himself in the @ss, going cluck cluck, while he trys to delete the facts that show he was stupid enough to ram his own foot in his foul mouth.
244

Lynne,

USA 29/01/2008 16:54:41
Truthfully, this is all ridiculous. English in America is slightly different than in Europe. Just look how we date items. Ours, like today. 01/29/08, yours is not. So all this is off topic and should amount to a hill of beans.
245

Lynne,

USA 29/01/2008 16:56:43
It's almost as mindboggling as who I cheer for at a tennis match!!
246

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 17:01:01
#244 lynne

why did your hero delete my 233/234 then? He seems so sure of himself, surely he would want them there to ridicule them, thats what he does.. he is never on topic.


247

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 17:07:12
#244 lynne

lynne said

"Truthfully, this is all ridiculous"

you didnt think so at #237, you were giving your boy an ovation. What has happened since then to make you change your mind??? The fact that your boy is not the hero you thought maybe???


248

Lynne,

USA 29/01/2008 17:12:50
Nothing has changed...this is all too petty..and I have the Utmost respect for Nomad.
249

57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 18:39:57
Bob said:

"They are both questions, thankyou for proving me right and yourself wrong, loser......."

bob, you are becoming the black knight of the Scotsman.

You continue to amaze me. Sentence construction is governed by rules. Since this is a phrase put to a person it is a nominatives of direct address. Commas set off nominatives of direct address. There is no more to it than that. These are the rules and, loser, they are not subject to you or your idiotic opinions. Keep it up bozo. I'm having fun and I'm just getting started with you. Here's a word of advice before you say anything else about the subject of commas. Go to an English teacher and ask him or her. They will set you strait after they rap your knuckles for making a mistake that would flunk you on a third grade grammar exam. I can here you from six thousand miles away hollering, "Right! I'll do you for that!"

Loser your arms and legs have been severed and are scattered here and there. What are you going to do, bite my ankles. I win, you lose. Get used to that it's never going to change, you aren't smart enough and you're not good enough.
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57Nomad,

california 29/01/2008 18:44:26
TO ANY READER OR ANY POSTER!! please do this:

Google 'nominatives of direct address'

Read it and then put bob out of his misery. this is getting really boring.
251

Lynne,

USA 29/01/2008 19:26:18
I figured out the reason Bob can't get it!! It's for Grade 6!!
252

Finnking,

Lempäälä 29/01/2008 20:04:19
Nobrain

Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

On the camel thread, Nomad says:

"About the kids parents view of me. If you have seen the photo I sent of my students and me you will notice one girl wearing a hajib. To the far right you will see her sister. Their family are refugees from Afghanistan."

And from the post YOU made last week:
57Nomad,
california 25/01/2008 01:19:07


"As I have mentioned previously we do not long for an empire of date trees and camels. If we were going to be Imperialists we would take part of Europe. Why? Well, to be frank it has to do with women. I used to really feel sorry for those women who are compelled to wear a Burqa. Absolutely degrading and dehumanizing. However, I saw some video of some of the unburqa'd women. EEYOWIE!! The burqas didn't seem like such a bad idea after all."

1. Do you honestly not think that these people would like to know about your comment above? Personally, I feel they have a right to know but I will give you Lee-way on this one.

2. Perhaps you should ask the students about the Northern Alliance and how seriously they raped and killed. Perhaps even having some discussion with them regarding the run up to the Afghan/Russian war? Maybe even talking to them about CIA support for the Taliban?

3. You say, "It is apparently agreeable with you to see women degraded by the burqa, to have them stoned to death in a soccer stadium for the crime of being a woman and going to the pharmacist, though in a burqa, without an escort from a male member of her family."---no, Nomad. I would never post anything so unchivalrous, racist or sexist.

You, on the other hand evidently do.
253

Finnking,

Lempäälä 29/01/2008 20:28:17
Gee nobrain,

You ask: "TO ANY READER OR ANY POSTER!! please do this:
Google 'nominatives of direct address'
Read it and then put bob out of his misery. this is getting really boring."

--Well, just did that and, hey presto, no matches.

For anyone remotely interested in this crud: the nominative marks the subject of a verb. What Nomad is trying to do is confuse you, MOEB and those who actually read this drivel.

The key to this is the "Vocative Case", noun case identifying the object; EG "How's it going, Nomad?"

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29/01/2008 21:15:38
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Reason:
255

Finnking,

Lempäälä 29/01/2008 21:32:35
Mine’s an 80 bob --- not I
80 Shilling Ale ---- not I
Srekoojd ----- not I
Djookers ----- not I
Troll Irritation -----not I
Troll Irritant -----not I
SAMPO ------Yup. Got banned after having comments deleted that critised Israeli expansionist foreign policy so came up with a rather obvious Finnish name. "The Sampo"- from Karelian folklore. Oh, I also told folk is was 'me'.
Spy Catcher-----Not I
Finnking-----Well, duh.
gniknnif ----Was banned again but hardly a sneaky attempt to conceal my identity, was it? Maybe it 'fooled' you?
FinnkingII --- Note sure. Could have been but there's been so many folk taking names.
Finnking Unplugged --- Mmm....can't remember it but, again, hardly a sneaky ploy, is it? Did it fool you?

When the name Finnking is not allowed to be used I use variations. Do you have a problem with that?

How many have you used?
256

Lynne,

USA 29/01/2008 22:34:07
For all you who do not believe Quassam rockets do not cause damage or kill..just go to this link:

www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/rocket_threat_e.pdf

go to page. 13 ..It has a short movie about the rockets..told to you by Hamas..

These are the people you want Israel to be responsible for.
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Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 23:36:57
#249 nuts

15 or so lines of meaningless posturing, with a few insults thrown in. That the best you can do?

That was the post of an arrogant pedant who has not only lost, but realised to late that he was the one responsible for the defeat.

Psychologists are generally agreed that human beings judge others by their own standards, ie: a thief generally thinks that everyone else steals.

With that in mind, your

"I can here you from six thousand miles away hollering, "Right! I'll do you for that!"

, says far more about you than it will ever do about me. And that is the true measure of who is the loser here. You so desperately want to "do me for that!" but cant, because you aren't smart enough and you're not good enough and you will always suffer knowing you were the cause of your own downfall.
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,

30/01/2008 00:37:25
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259

Finnking,

Lempäälä 30/01/2008 09:52:10
256 Lynne

Interesting article about the weapons they use.

Here's other interesting articles about the weapons the Israelis use:

http://www.avitop.com/interact/weapons.htm

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ah-64.htm

you say, "These are the people you want Israel to be responsible for." (question?)

No, Lynne. I simply want Israel to remove its illegal buildings in the West Bank, stop killing/oppressing others and get around to implementing the Oslo Agreement (sic).
260

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 30/01/2008 11:06:20
Finnking,

Yes, the Sidewinder missile is a weapon used by Israel...

and Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Egypt, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Indonesia, Iran, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, South Korea, Kuwait, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Philippines, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, UAE, UK, USA, Venezuela, Vietnam and Yemen.

The AIM-120 AMRAAM missile is a weapon used by Israel...

and Australia, Belgium, Bahrain, Canada, Chile, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Jordan, South Korea, the Netherlands, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Taiwan, Singapore, Switzerland, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, Thailand, Turkey, UK, and USA.

The AGM-65 Maverick is a weapon used by Israel...

and Bahrain, Belgium, Denmark, Egypt, Germany, Greece, Iran, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Kenya, South Korea, Kuwait, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Philippines, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Sudan, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, UK, USA, Venezuela, Vietnam and Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro).

The AH-64 Apache helicopter is a weapon used by Israel...

and Egypt, Greece, Japan, Kuwait, Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, United Arab Emirates, UK, and USA.
261

Lynne,

USA 30/01/2008 11:08:03
#259..Israel still has the right to the West Bank..It was taken in the 6 Day War..lest you forget...with the Gaza Stip and the Sinai. The Sinai and Gasa have already been returned for the promise of peace. Hamas has made it perfectly clear that they still intend to attack, and will never stop.
Why, under those conditions and those lies of peace from the Palestinians, should the Israelis turn over the West Bank? They should give Hamas another place to launch rockets?
I don't think so. When and if there is peace, most Israelis want to get out of the West Bank..but they will not now open themselves up to attacks from Hamas from that area too.

The fact that the West Bank has not been returned yet, merely rests on the heads of the Palestinians and Hamas.

Israel has voted for peace. The Palestinians have voted for terrorism.
262

lielayer,

30/01/2008 11:26:07
261
Lynne

"Israel still has the right to the West Bank..It was taken in the 6 Day War."

Israel knew Six Day War was illegal

A senior legal official who secretly warned the government of Israel after the Six Day War of 1967 that it would be illegal to build Jewish settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories has said, for the first time, that he still believes that he was right.

The declaration by Theodor Meron, the Israeli Foreign Ministry's legal adviser at the time and today one of the world's leading international jurists, is a serious blow to Israel's persistent argument that the settlements do not violate international law, particularly as Israel prepares to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the war in June 1967.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/secret-memo-shows-israel-knew-six-day-war-was-illegal-450410.html
263

Lynne,

30/01/2008 11:49:41
CONTINUED..

Now the camps are in the hands of the Palestinian Authority (PA), but little is being done to improve the lot of the Palestinians living in them. Journalist Netty Gross visited Gaza and asked an official why the camps there hadn't been dismantled. She was told the Palestinian Authority had made a "political decision" not to do anything for the more than now nearly 6500,000 Palestinians living in the camps until the final-status talks with Israel took place.
When Israel evacuated the Gaza Strip in 2005, the Israelis were prepared to leave the houses of settlers for use by Palestinian refugees, but the Palestinians said these mostly single family homes were not practical for their needs and asked that they be demolished so the PA could build high-rise apartment buildings to house refugees and other Palestinians. More than two years later, not a single brick has been laid for housing for the refugees.
The Palestinians received more than $6 billion in international aid following the Oslo agreements. One might have expected that at least one home could have built for refugees with that sum, but none were. In December 2007, international donors pledged $7.4 billion in new aid to the Palestinians. That should be more than enough to build homes for every refugee. Based on the last 60 years of neglect by their fellow Arabs, however, the refugees are far more likely to see their officials' enriched than their lives improved.
264

Lynne,

USA 30/01/2008 13:06:01
The 6 Day war was not illegal. Israel was the victim of Arab genocidal agression. On May 15,1967, Egypt demanded that the UN peacekeeping forces, in place since the Sinai Campaign, evacuate immediately. UN Secretary General U-Thant complied. Then Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran, blocking the Israeli port of Eilat for shipping, and moved two tank battalions and 150,000 troops right up to Israel's western border. A military pact with Syria and Jordan and illegal invasion of Israel's air space for surveillance over Israel's atomic reactor in Dimona rounded out the threats.
THESE WERE 5 ACTIONS defined in International law as so threatening to a sovereign state that each one is a cause for defensive military strike. If Israel had retaliated after only one of these five,its military action would have been legal per international law, as legitmiate defensive response to existential threats from an agression.
BUT DON'T LET THE FACTS GET IN THE WAY.
265

lielayer,

30/01/2008 14:28:36

264
Lynne

"The 6 Day war was not illegal. Israel was the victim of Arab genocidal agression."

Israel provoked Six-Day War and Still defies international law

Former Dutch UN observer says Israel provoked Six-Day War


A former Dutch UN observer has said Israel was not under siege by Arab countries preceding the Six-Day War, the 40th anniversary of which falls on Tuesday, and that the Jewish state provoked most border incidents as part of its strategy to annex more land.

Speaking on a Dutch current affairs programme late Monday, Jan Muhren, who was stationed interchangeably at the Golan Heights and the West Bank in 1966-67, says neither Jordan nor Syria had any intention to start a war with Israel.

http://www.ccun.org/News/2007/June/5%20n/Israel%20provoked%20Six-Day%20War%20and%20Still%20defies%20international%20law.htm
266

Lynne,

USA 30/01/2008 15:14:49
I've given you facts...you have given nothing but your propaganda.. The 6 Day War was not illegal. After being attacked 4 other times, Israel was not waiting for the 5th, when their borders had Arab troops waiting to pounce, and 4 other transgressions against them.

It's only "illegal" to people who hate Israel.
267

Lynne,

USA 30/01/2008 15:42:19
Israel did not retaliate immediately. It first tried political negotiations, but as usual its complaints to the UN went unanswered. Its reminders to President LBJ that the US had guaranteed in 1957 to intervene if the Straits of Tiran were ever closed, or if Egypt ever re-militarized the Sinai, fell on deaf ears as the US was too heavily involved in Vietnam (Viet Nam) to consider sending troops elsewhere. This, even though President DDE, when he forced PM Ben Gurion to retreat from the Sinai after a successful Sinai Campaign, in 1956, promised Israel would never have to face a military threat from Egypt.
After 3 weeks ( that's 3 weeks) of watching the Egyptian-Syrian-Jordanian froces grow in size and strength on its borders, Israel sent a message to the King of Jordan. It said simply, if you do not invade Israel, Israel will not invade the West Bank. The king gave back the note and walked away from the Norwegian Co. Od Bul who had given it to him.,
After recieving military intel that Egypt was within hours of launching an invasion via the Gaza Strip,Israel launched a defensive pre-emptive strike that destroyed the air forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria while they were still on the ground.
Israel's armor and infantry sent the Egyptians running, reaching the Suez Canal in 2 days.
Jordan's King began an artillary bombardment of Jerusalem and other Israeli cities along the Green Line.
After more than a day of bombardment and scores of Israelis dead, hundreds wounded, and millions of dollars of damage a message was sent via the Romanian Embassy to the King, who ignored it again, and launched an invasion of Jewish Jerusalem. It was only then that Israel responded with its own invasion of the West Bank.
After almost a week of Syria's constant bombardment of Israeli towns and villages in the Galilee, Israel conquered the Golan Heights, destroyed the Syrian artillery, and drove the Syrian army back to 40 kilometers of Damascus.
268

lielayer,

30/01/2008 15:48:31
266
Lynne

Britain illegally created the state of Israel.

Palestine was once a British colony, but the British promised to pass the Arab country to the Jews for their help in involving the U.S. join WWI and side with the British.

So the UK, who didn’t own the land, had given it to the Jews, who do not belong there.

Fostering Jewish immigration in the hope that it might ultimately lead to the creation of a Jewish majority and the establishment of a Jewish state with the consent or the acquiescence of the Arabs was one thing. It was quite another to contemplate, however remotely, the forcible conversion of Palestine into a Jewish State against the will of the Arabs.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=9158
269

Findlay Thompson,

30/01/2008 16:18:00
86

Tiking

Regarding my previous comments, I was unaware you suffer from dyslexia. Please accept my humblest sincerest, appologies.
270

Lynne,

USA 30/01/2008 16:32:05
continued

Israel did not invade Egypt beyond the Suez Canal, although they could have advanced all the way to Cairo, almost unopposed. It did not cross the Jordan River, although the Jordan Legion was in total disarray, as some soldiers took off their boots, threw down their rifles and swam to the east bank. Nor did it continue its advance from the Golan Heights to Damascus, which could have been done, because the Syrian army was decimated. Israel stopped its advance on all 3 fronts after it achieved its military objectives..the destruction of the armies, and the establishment of defensible borders.

But like I said WHY LET FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR LIES.!!!
271

Lynne,

USA 30/01/2008 16:59:39
lielayer

It is 60 years since Israel was established..get over it!!

The only time the issue of the Israeli settlements would be illegal, is, if Israel had been the agressor of the 6 Day War.
As a victim of aggression, Israel's legal position is exactly the opposite.

There has never been a peace treaty, and due to its absense the continued sovereignty and economic activities of the victim of aggression over its won territories is completely legal.

Israel offered to return conquered territories immediately after the war in exchange for a formal peace. As usual, the Arab nations rejected the offer, and similar offers. Israel could have legally annexed all newly won territories, but chose not to, because it expected the Arab nations to eventually want their land back, and Israel would return this land back for peace.

DON'T LET THE FACTS HIDE YOUR LIES.

272

lielayer,

30/01/2008 17:41:02
271
Lynne

The government of Israel does not recognize the Israeli nation. It says that there is no such thing.

http://christianparty.net/israeldoesnotexist.htm
273

Lynne,

usa 30/01/2008 17:57:44
lielayer...this is ludicrous...a sane person can't talk to you!!
You live up to your name. Do me a favor..stop going to these inane sights..made up of G-d knows what!!
First picture I saw was Hitler..Please get a grip...
I use facts..you use garbage.!!
274

lielayer,

30/01/2008 20:06:38
273
Lynne

"First picture I saw was Hitler."

Adolf Hitler - Founder of Israel

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=6VZg8dckoekC&dq=hitler+israel&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=LvwhrlGXL9&sig=0NS3qUgpzZL7dBd80XjisuPk-uk#PPP1,M1
275

Lynne,

USA 31/01/2008 02:09:16
lielayer, you are a exactly what your name says. You just keep piling it on.. Careful people, you will need hip boots soon.
276

57Nomad,

california 31/01/2008 02:49:20
#253 Fin

fin said:

"You ask: "TO ANY READER OR ANY POSTER!! please do this:
Google 'nominatives of direct address'
Read it and then put bob out of his misery. this is getting really boring."
--Well, just did that and, hey presto, no matches."

Fin probably made a spelling error. It's a long word.
For readers who are past 6th grade, try it yourself. Go ahead and take a walk on the wild side. Here is what you will find"

Here is the Google link:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=nominative+commas&hl=en&suggon=0&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=nominatives+of+direct+address&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images

Astonishingly finny says:
(reprise from above):
"Google 'nominatives of direct address'
"Well, just did that and, hey presto, no matches."

Here is the news from one of the hits on the page. Sorry, fins, wrong again, loser.

"Writing for the Mass Media by James Glen Stovall
Commas set off nominatives of direct address. She said, “You know, Joe, .... Pronouns in the nominative, also called the subjective, case, are I, he, she, ...
www.abacon.com/stovall/grammar.html

and:

"[PDF]
Glossary of grammar terms
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Commas set off nominatives of direct address. She said, .... Pronouns in the nominative, also called the. subjective, case, are I, he, she, we, they, ..."

and:

"Lebanese University – English Department Advanced Grammar ...
File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
Use a comma to separate nominatives of direct address which means of direct ... A nominative absolute is another independent element of the sentence; hence, ...
www.zihenni.org/First%20year/grammar/Unit%201%20-%20Gr.doc - Similar pages - Note this"

The above is from a Lebanese grammar book. Fins and Bob know less about English than some guy in Lebanon. When you get your English corrected by an 'English as a second la
277

57Nomad,

california 31/01/2008 02:51:55
#276 contd.

language guy, and in public, what else can you possibly be but a loser?

278

57Nomad,

31/01/2008 03:48:21
#257

bob said:

"That was the post of an arrogant pedant who has not only lost, but realised to late that he was the one responsible for the defeat."

bob that's the best self-description I have ever read. Aren't you the genius who commented on a previous posters English. Not only did you attempt to correct it, but you used that insignificant mote to generalize on the overall intelligence.

How on earth, in view of that, can you call someone else a pedant? Do you understand, clearly and completely now that you were wrong? If you still can't get that through your brick-like skull then read post #276 and avail yourself of a clue. First your buddy fins lets you down by saying that there were no references in Google for "nominatives of direct address," but apparently has given you the impression that you have acquitted yourself well. You haven't done anything of the kind. You have been trounced, loser.


279

57Nomad,

31/01/2008 04:04:20


bob said:

"nuts is getting desperate now. The contradiction is so obvious that he cant disprove it, so what does he do. He copies and pastes what I said and then calls me a lying snake before urging everyone to check the thread. He provides no proof, just smoke and mirrors."

And what contradiction would we be talking about, bob.
Are you really saying that 'fewer' and 'nothing' are contradictory. Of course, they aren't. If you have 5 dollars and you give it away, do you have a greater amount of dollars or fewer. Fewer. How much do you have left? Nothing. Now suppose another man has 5 dollars and give away three of them. How many does he have. He has two. Is that fewer or greater dollare than he started with. Fewer. The first man has few and nothing, the second man has fewer and two. This contradicts nothing.

You should have read the law before you run your mouth.
Here it is again and this time pay attention.

A thing may not be itself and not itself at the same time and in the same way. But you aren't referencing one thing, you are referencing two different things, aren't you?
280

57Nomad,

31/01/2008 04:13:27
#246 bob

bob said:

"#244 lynne

why did your hero delete my 233/234 then? He seems so sure of himself, surely he would want them there to ridicule them, thats what he does.. he is never on topic."

It could well be you that is deleting your own posts and blaming it on others. Tell us all how you know who is and who is not deleting posts? You can't and you know it. I like your posts and always have. They are very entertaining. You are a mindless dolt. And your posts reflect that. It is fun to read your posts. Why would I want them deleted?


281

57Nomad,

31/01/2008 05:00:06
Lynne

Yesterday, during the midst of the comma war, I had an appointment at UCSD and was gone for three or four hours. Apparently the "Lose Brothers" took this a sign that they were on a roll. Let me encapsulate the two issues.

First of all one of them castigated a poster for putting a comma in a sentence. this is the form of the sentence:

Blah blah blah blah, Suck.

Suck is being spoken to and he is mentioned in the sentence. This is what the nominative of direct address means. It must alway be set of with commas. If the addressee is the first word, one comma. If it is in the body of the sentence two commas, at the end of the sentence one comma. These rules do not change wherever the English language spoken.

These are bobs words.

""If the writer had known they were speaking to someone called Suck the sentence would have been "So, how's it going Suck?" without the second comma."

This is not correct. It is a mistake. bob hasn't a clue and neither does fins. This is the rule:

"Commas set off nominatives of direct address." These are not my words it is a well known rule of grammar. Fins said he got no hits when he googled "nominatives of direct address." He is wrong and if you will google it you will see for yourself. Some may say that his assertion of no hits is a baldfaced lie. I prefer the alternate explanation. Nominatives is a long work and it is my belief that by the time he finished reading the word he forgot the first part and simply misspelled it, hence the no hits remark.

In any case, like usual, despite the brave talk, they are wrong and I am right. That is why I often refer to them as 'losers.' Because they are, as you have seen, losers. In a subsequent post I will fillet then on the second issue.
282

Lynne,

USA 31/01/2008 06:12:56
Nomad...how do you think I found out that it was for 6 year olds. I did google it.
283

Lynne,

USA 31/01/2008 06:19:08
Nomad, if you don't mind, I will have to look at this tomorrow. I promised to really read this throughly. I had minor surgery Mon. and the pills for pain are not let me concentrate at this wee hour of of the morning.!!
Good night..see you tomorrow!!
284

,

31/01/2008 06:29:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
285

,

31/01/2008 09:15:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
286

Finnking,

Lempäälä 31/01/2008 11:02:48
Who is grammar Montaigne?
LOL

287

britfree,

deiryasin 31/01/2008 11:32:02
i see the uber trolls still stinking up the board still doing that contrived "i agree with lynne" BS i know the zionists have stink-up software i suspect we might be arguing with that. more brain power on show at the local piggery if you ask me
288

Cutty Sark.,

The polygraph room 31/01/2008 11:54:57
Finnking,

You are a Liar Liar Pants on Fire. You and Djookers have used many ID's here as Trolls.

The names you two used for a while that got you egg on your face and was so funny was when you were monitoring every hit on your FH site. You two clowns came up with the names "Comcast", "Spy Catcher", and some other lame IDs thinking you were James Bond types guessing peoples IP addresses.

From the above comments I can see things have not changed, you two trolls still lie and try to gang up on people you feel are a threat to socialism.
289

lielayer,

31/01/2008 13:16:45
285
,
31/01/2008 09:15:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

Grammar

http://www.studygs.net/modcom.htm
290

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 31/01/2008 14:31:04
no nuts asks at #250

TO ANY READER OR ANY POSTER!! please do this:

Google 'nominatives of direct address'

Read it and then put bob out of his misery. this is getting really boring.
_______________________________________________

Finnking at #253 says

"--Well, just did that and, hey presto, no matches."
__________________________________________________

At #276 no nuts trys to ridicule Fiinking with

"Fin probably made a spelling error. It's a long word.
For readers who are past 6th grade, try it yourself. Go ahead and take a walk on the wild side. Here is what you will find"

Here is the Google link:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=nominative+commas&hl
=en&suggon=0&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=nominatives
+of+direct+address&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_
filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_
dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images

Astonishingly finny says:
(reprise from above):
"Google 'nominatives of direct address'
"Well, just did that and, hey presto, no matches."
_____________________________________________

One small fly in no nuts ointment here. To get the url and search string he quotes as the "google link" you have to put in

....... nominative commas "nominatives of direct address" .........

which is way different from what he ASKED EVERYONE TO DO. which was to google

.... 'nominatives of direct address'

and as Finnking pointed out, when you do that " hey presto, no matches"

No spelling error required by Finnking or anyone else. Because from just being wrong, no nuts has gone to being DECEITFUL and a LIAR


You notice that LYNNE, your boy has to resort to DECEIT and LYING to try and win his unwinnable arguement. Go on, try it. Google "nominatives of direct address" only and the URL that you get is
"http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&suggon=0&as_
qdr=all&q=+%22nominatives+of+direct+address%22&btnG=
Search"

which is way different from the one no nuts posted ab
291

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 31/01/2008 14:31:59
#291 cont'd

which is way different from the one no nuts posted above.
As for the rest of his posts at 276 to 281. I will get to them later today. And trust me on this one no nuts, you are going to rue the day you mentioned the lebanese guy.

Like 234 and 241, he will delete this as soon as he sees it, so read it quick everyone.

292

Cutty Sark.,

The polygraph room 31/01/2008 15:45:37
291 Djookers the Troll,Edinburgh

LOL, you are the only one deleting posts, perhaps your own to gain victim status or because you realized how stupid your comment was.
293

Finnking,

Lempäälä 31/01/2008 15:54:19
MAEB

Thanks for that. I assumed it was because I use a Finnish Google. I didn't see that Sad Man had, yet again, cheated in argument by changing his original search string to include the word "comma".

The fact that a so called academic, teacher of ethnic minorities, can stoop so low to 'win' some pedantic point is almost as amazing as how this 'man' can sit with Muslim students during the day and then, at night, write,

"As I have mentioned previously we do not long for an empire of date trees and camels. If we were going to be Imperialists we would take part of Europe. Why? Well, to be frank it has to do with women. I used to really feel sorry for those women who are compelled to wear a Burqa. Absolutely degrading and dehumanizing. However, I saw some video of some of the unburqa'd women. EEYOWIE!! The burqas didn't seem like such a bad idea after all."

LEEst we forget.

Thanks again.
294

britfree,

craigieslair 31/01/2008 16:09:22
all that red!!!!!!foriegn censcorship by remote control the moderator needs to grow a spine
295

Lynne,

USA 31/01/2008 17:05:55
http://www.studygs.net/modcom.htm If commas are getting you down, and you have to learn how to use them...be my guest..go to the link...it even will give you examples so you can practice.

296

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 31/01/2008 17:37:07
#294 britfree

P*ss off
297

Mine's an 80 bob,

The oxford bar 31/01/2008 23:36:44
#276 no nuts

I have already taken care of the deceit and lies about the whole google search thing in my previous post at #290 suffice it to say that Finnking was right when he said googling only "nominatives of direct address" you get no matches.

I suggest that instead of banging on about "nominatives of direct address" you google "question mark grammar" and find out why I kept telling you that it was a question.

here you go
Question Marks:

Rule 1. Use a question mark only after a direct question.
Examples: Will you go with me?
I asked if he would go with me.

Rule 2. Use a question mark when a sentence is half statement and half question.
Example: You do care, don't you?

So in the original, by Finnking So, how's it going, Suck?"
and the example YOU provided "Susan, where did you hide my potato peeler?"

both rule 1 and 2 are followed. end of story....

As for your lebanese guy, the site is down right now, but the first use of a comma he gives is to make a list, as in, "no nuts is an old, thick, pedantic, moron". Or a list of questions as in "So, how's it going, Suck?"

And as for:
"The above is from a Lebanese grammar book", I thought we were discussing ENGLISH grammar.
and this:
"When you get your English(comma use) corrected by an 'English as a second language guy, and in public, what else can you possibly be but a loser?

is a re-run of the "I can here you from six thousand miles away hollering, "Right! I'll do you for that!", says far more about you than it will ever do about me.... bit
298

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 31/01/2008 23:37:31
#278 nonuts

The only part of this worth commenting on is this.
"First your buddy fins lets you down by saying that there were no references in Google for "nominatives of direct address," but apparently has given you the impression that you have acquitted yourself well.

We now know this is false, YOU LIED as far as googling "nominatives of direct address" went.

I notice that you were answering my #257 here. Funny how you dont make further mention of your snide little remark, "I can here you from six thousand miles away hollering, "Right! I'll do you for that!"

Perhaps my
"Psychologists are generally agreed that human beings judge others by their own standards, ie: a thief generally thinks that everyone else steals.

With that in mind, your

"I can here you from six thousand miles away hollering, "Right! I'll do you for that!"

, says far more about you than it will ever do about me.

was just to close to home for you.

299

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 31/01/2008 23:39:27
#279 no nuts

Knew you would come back for another stab at this no nuts.

no nuts says:
"Are you really saying that 'fewer' and 'nothing' are contradictory. Of course, they aren't. If you have 5 dollars and you give it away, do you have a greater amount of dollars or fewer. Fewer. How much do you have left? Nothing. Now suppose another man has 5 dollars and give away three of them. How many does he have. He has two. Is that fewer or greater dollare than he started with. Fewer. The first man has few and nothing, the second man has fewer and two. This contradicts nothing."

So we get this right, these are your words. According to you there is NO contradiction in the statement "The first man has few and nothing" as defined by these words of yours
"If you have 5 dollars and you give it away, do you have a greater amount of dollars or fewer. Fewer. How much do you have left? Nothing.

definition of fewer:
fewer - (comparative of `few' used with count nouns) quantifier meaning a smaller number of; "fewer birds came this year"; "the birds are fewer this year"; "fewer trains were late"
few (fy)
adj. few·er, few·est
1. Amounting to or consisting of a small number: one of my few bad habits.
2. Being more than one but indefinitely small in number: bowled a few strings.

definition of nothing:
noth·ing (nthng)
1. Something that has no existence.
2. Something that has no quantitative value; zero: a score of two to nothing.
3. One that has no substance or importance; a nonentity: "A nothing is a dreadful thing to hold onto" Edna O'Brien.

Saying "the man has few and nothing" is a single reference. and following YOUR rule "A thing may not be itself and not itself at the same time and in the same way". This single thing CANNOT be, FEW (Being more than one but indefinitely small in number) and NOTHING (Something that has no quantitative value; zero:) at the same time. A clear contradiction. Next time you look in the mirror you will see a large L on your
300

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 31/01/2008 23:40:11
#299 cont'd

Next time you look in the mirror you will see a large L on your forehead, do not be alarmed, it's meant to be there.
301

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 31/01/2008 23:41:56
#280 no nuts

I wouldn't want to delete them, they proved you wrong.

It may that be that the person whose private correspondence you plastered all over this site in such an ungentlemanly fashion wanted to make you look bad.

As for your #281 to lynne. it is now completely disproved. That said, i'm sure that you will be back in a day, maybe two, with another bunch of feeble attempts at "winning". Though it has to be said the last lot were scraping the barrel. The reason you give lynne for the delay in the reply will no doubt be along the lines of:
"I would have gotten back to this sooner but I was called to washington to brief the President on the use of nominatives of direct address as a stategic weapon in the war on terror"

In the meantime, I will wait, not to win, but to be right, and there is the difference between us.
302

57Nomad,

california 01/02/2008 00:00:09
#290 bob


Whats the matter bob, feeling that old losing feeling creeping down your skinny little neck?

What's important here, is what the search reveals. Remember when you told the poster that a comma was not required before the word 'Suck'? Quoth bob, "If the writer had known they were speaking to someone called Suck the sentence would have been "So, how's it going Suck?" without the second comma."

You remember that don't you. I told you at that time that the poster was correct and you were mistaken. Why you didn't let it drop there is beyond me. Why are you ducking the issue. Could it be, that once again, you have proved to be a larger than life dunce. I told you guys I was going to make you eat your words and that's exactly what I intend to do right now. Read and Learn:

1: Lessons 131-135 - Nouns of Address
Nouns or nominatives of address are the persons or things to which you are speaking. They are set off from the rest of the sentence by a comma or commas, ...

Did you get that, dunce. Now do you understand how hopelessly wrong you were and continue to be? Suck is a nominative of direct address. What do you have to do with nominatives of direct address? Well, bob, do you have a good answer for us? After all, you said, and continue to say that it's not supposed to be there.

Here's the link:
www.dailygrammar.com/131to135.shtml

Next: this is from
www.jprof.com/writing/rulesforusingcommas.html

Commas set off nominatives of direct address.
• She said, “You know, Joe, your marsupial is loose.”
• Susan, where did you hide my potato peeler?

You can tell your bunkmate fins that those examples aren't mine. They came from the author of the grammar book. So you can forget about being saved by QUESTION MARKS! It doesn't make a bit of difference whether or not they appear. You and fins may want to find fault with the text book author, but take your arguments up with him not me.

303

57Nomad,

california 01/02/2008 00:04:36
#302 contd

7) Use commas to set" off parenthetical expressions and nominatives of direct address.

* The test, you may recall, was easy.

* She said, "You know, Jan, that the test is today."

* "Jan, where's the car?" "Where's the car, Jan?"

This is from:

http://grammar.uoregon.edu/punctuation/comma.html

Had enough? I'm the winner and I'll let you know when you've had enough. Here's more, moron. And on this one you don't even have to open the link because on the search page is this little item.

www.zihenni.org/First%20year/grammar/Unit%201%20-%20Gr.doc
Lebanese University – English Department Advanced Grammar ...
File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
Eg: The criminal was caught and arrested in Zahlé, Lebanon. ... Use a comma to separate nominatives of direct address which means of direct speech. ..

Are you catching on. Do you know that a guy in Lebanon knows the rule, "Use a comma to separate nominatives of direct address," and you don't. Nice work, swifty (note the comma correctly placed before 'swifty.')

Now, let me quote you from #153.

"#153 bob

bob said:

"If the writer had known they were speaking to someone called Suck the sentence would have been "So, how's it going Suck?" without the second comma." Now compare that with, “?" "Where's the car, Jan?" as is noted, once again in the link below. Can you now see how completely and profoundly wrong your are?
http://grammar.uoregon.edu/punctuation/comma.html


There you go, loserus magnus. Your exact words. You said the second comma wasn't required, didn't you. In that sentence ,Suck, as we are all now well aware, is a 'Nominative of Direct Address. You know you did and all the weaseling in the world isn't going to get you off the 'Loser Hook' from which you are dangling, twisting slowly, slowly in the wind.
304

57Nomad,

california 01/02/2008 00:06:24
#303 contd.

And your pal Fins can try all he wants to wriggle free, he's stuck just like you are. Fins and bob, "the Lose Brothers."


305

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 00:09:05
#302 no nuts

no nuts said:
"You and fins may want to find fault with the text book author, but take your arguments up with him not me."

Or " a big boy did it and ran away" AKA not my fault, I was only quoting what someone else said. That's the biggest cop out I have ever seen......you L.O.S.E.R.
306

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 00:26:34
#303 no nuts

not content with being deceitful about google searches, no nuts now wants to introduce statements in quotes as part of his proof,
7) Use commas to set" off parenthetical expressions and nominatives of direct address.

* The test, you may recall, was easy.

* She said, "You know, Jan, that the test is today."

* "Jan, where's the car?" "Where's the car, Jan?"

This is from:

http://grammar.uoregon.edu/punctuation/comma.html

keep twisting no nuts, change it anyway you think you can cheat your way round it, you are still wrong.
307

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 00:41:46
#303 no nuts

no nuts quotes heavily from http://grammar.uoregon.edu/punctuation/comma.html

which bills itself as

"a GUIDE to grammar punctuation and STYLE" and before it says anything about commas, or anything else for that matter, publishes the following disclaimer

"There are 11 simple rules that govern the comma in AP style. Be aware that this is a particular STYLE. Other STYLES have different rules for comma use."

AP style???
Other styles??

You mean these are not the hard and fast rules that no nuts claims, but merely "styles" of writing. Another google moment here I think.

He then has the cheek to claim
"Had enough? I'm the winner and I'll let you know when you've had enough."

What, your the "WINNER" in a "STYLE" competition???
308

Lynne,

USA 01/02/2008 01:42:12
I am going to end the Comma War...Nomad is right. I just got off the phone with a friend who is an English teacher for Special Ed. NOMAD is RIGHT.
309

britfree,

in the huff 01/02/2008 01:54:21
lynne thinks im a girl coz i asked if she had recovered from minor surgery ,iguess. tikun cant get the differance between brit and britFREE now eighty/- is telling me to #### off. stick to the task in hand and dont attack britfree .80 ihave a fakey it might have been him, who knows/cares?
310

57Nomad,

california 01/02/2008 02:21:15
#299 bob

bob said:

"Saying "the man has few and nothing" is a single reference. and following YOUR rule "A thing may not be itself and not itself at the same time and in the same way". This single thing CANNOT be, FEW (Being more than one but indefinitely small in number) and NOTHING (Something that has no quantitative value; zero:) at the same time. A clear contradiction. Next time you look in the mirror you will see a large L on your"

bob you continue to lead with your chin. Let us go back to the original point of contention and this time, please, try to keep up with the rest of the class.

Here is the critical quote from the King of Confusion, bob.

"Hopefully you can see where you contradicted yourself now
nuts says genocide = no £ left
nuts then says genocide = £50 left

I never said any such thing. It was you and fins that said that. I want you to find anywhere on this thread or any where else where I said,
genocide = no £ left
nuts then says genocide = £50 left (in you confusion, you forgot to put the 'fewer' part in) that. That is a fantasy of your creation, not mine.

You see, bob, that is a blatant and bald faced lie. I never, ever said anything of the kind and if you will search this thread you will find it only in the posts of two (2) posters. Who are these idiots? I will tell you, they are finnking and bob. They invented this and now they are arguing against themselves.

Here is what I said from #160

"You see, Bob, one of the hallmarks, the sine qua non, of genocide is that there are fewer of the targeted people after the genocide than before. Isn't that right?"

311

57Nomad,

california 01/02/2008 02:26:23
#310 contd

I think you forgot your first year Latin. What does 'sine qua non' mean, bob? Hurry, go google it. It does not mean definition nor anything like it. You are the ones who said it did, not me.. Cut and paste where I said that. If you can’t, then you lied, didn’t you?

If you say genocide is being committed then there must be fewer people after the genocide than before it. Since there are many more Palestinians and their numbers are increasing rapidly, the word genocide is not apropos and the use of the word genocide we are referring is absurd because of the Law of Non-Contradiction.

Here is that law, courtesy of Aristotle:

"in the words of Aristotle, that "one cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time."

We know this intuitively, a priori, and it is a fundamental cornerstone of rational thinking.

Apparently mistaking the term, sine qua non, a common enough Latin phrase, for the English word 'definition' the 'Lose Brothers' began their madcap shenanigans on this post, arguing with themselves and making up complete fabrications about what I, your guide through the land of silly, 57Nomad, said.

I did not say that 'fewer' was a definition of genocide, and I never said that 'nothing' was a definition of genocide. Who did? You did, you dolts. And then you started arguing with yourselvs. Bob, this is the kind of thing that excites comment among those who are charged with keeping lunatics off the streets. Kindly take the deranged words you tried to put in my mouth and put them back in yours and eat them along with all the others.

To reiterate, bob and fins said that I had contradicted myself by defining genocide in two different ways, fewer and nothing and that those two terms were mutually exclusive and therefore contradictory. Of course they made this up themselves. I never said anything of the kind. Furthermore, if I had it would still not be a contradiction for the simple reason
312

57Nomad,

california 01/02/2008 02:35:55
#311 contd.

Furthermore, if I had it would still not be a contradiction for the simple reason that they can both be correct. There is nothing mutually exclusive about them. Can reducing the amount of people of one race or nationality by half be genocide?(fewer) Sure it can. Can killing every person of a race or nationality be genocide? (none) Yes, of course. Since they can both be true there is no contradiction, QED.

If you want to argue that fewer is not the same as nothing, go right ahead. It is of no consequence. If you have fewer people it can be genocide, if you have no people it can be genocide. The subject under discussion is genocide, not the difference in the words ‘fewer’ and ‘they would all be dead.’ The last phrase is what I used. The word ‘nothing’ came out of the Lose Brothers lying mouths, I never said it once.

However to claim genocide on a population that is growing is a clear contradiction and is rendered absurd by The Law of Non-Contradiction. Now lads, run along back to your sand box. You are nowhere close to being good enough to play with the big boys.


313

Cutty Sark.,

The polygraph room 01/02/2008 02:53:26
A couple of Stephen’s Troll Names

SAMPO
Comcast
Hyline White
geesa
Troll Irritation

******************************************

A couple of Mine’s an 80 bob’s Troll Names

80 Shilling Ale
Srekoojd
Djookers
Spy Catcher
Troll Irritant

Let's see if they are going to deny it :) The list is much larger, let's see if Finnking lies and Djookers avoids it again.
314

lielayer,

01/02/2008 08:42:44
Tikun, Nomad, Daithi, Lynne, PK, SMG et al

International law grants a people fighting an illegal occupation the right to use “all necessary means at their disposal” to end their occupation, and the occupied “are entitled to seek and receive support” (I quote here from several United Nations resolutions). Armed resistance was used in the American Revolution, the Afghan resistance against Russia (which the U.S. supported), the French resistance against the Nazis, and even in the Nazi concentration camps, or, more famously, in the Warsaw Ghetto.

Palestinian resistance arises out of a similarly oppressive situation. The degree of violent response varies from case to case, indeed; in many instances resistance is mainly nonviolent. Despite all the odds against them, people resiliently continue to live, study, pray and plant crops in occupied land. In a few cases, they actively resist and resort to violence. This violent resistance may be defensive (and, thus, to my mind, morally acceptable), such as the resistance of the Jenin refugee camp fighters as Israeli death machines approached; or it may take the form of unacceptable offensive acts, such as the bombing of Israeli civilians celebrating a Passover meal. In all cases, however, it is individual Palestinians who choose the form of resistance, and the choices they make should not characterize the entire nation. Also, as we have seen, both peaceful and violent resistance are met with sanctioned, deliberate state violence by the democratic and free Israeli government and its forces.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/pal-resist.html
315

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 02/02/2008 00:30:21
#308 Lynne

Lynne said: "I am going to end the Comma War.."

Lynne, bad news for you. You are too late. no nuts ended the "comma war with his post at #303. Up until then he had been insistent that the use of commas was governed by strict rules. In fact he said so in his post to YOU at #281, in which he said:

"This is what the nominative of direct address means. It must alway be set of with commas. If the addressee is the first word, one comma. If it is in the body of the sentence two commas, at the end of the sentence one comma. These rules do not change wherever the English language spoken.

But in #303, still talking about the same thing, he suddenly changed his mind. Major flip flop, in his case more flop than flip, and quoted an edu website that he obviously agreed with that said:

"There are 11 simple rules that govern the comma in AP style. Be aware that this is a particular STYLE. Other STYLES have different rules for comma use."

There you have it Lynne, straight from the horses (no nuts) mouth, after he said there were only one set of rules that could never change, all of a sudden there were a whole load of different rules that you could use anyway you want. As a result no nuts has proved that he was completely wrong, is a total LOSER, and that when it comes to commas, he doesn't have a clue.

So I have three questions for you.

When you screamed "NOMAD is RIGHT"

did you mean he was right when he claimed that there was one set of rules for commas that could not change?

Or was he right when he quoted a website claiming that there were many styles of comma use and all were valid?

And lastly, which of these two options does your friend who is, "an English teacher for Special Ed" think is right? Because whichever one he chooses, he is in disagreement with no nuts somewhere down the line.

Now you see now what backing a loser does for you Lynne. You end up looking as stupid as he does.
He did the same thing with his dumb claims
316

Mine's an 80 bob,

Edinburgh 02/02/2008 00:31:04
#315 cont'd

He did the same thing with his dumb claims about what defined "genocide", first one thing, then another. I hope you stay out of that one, as you will end up looking even worse if you don't.
317

Lynne,

USA 02/02/2008 01:53:49
#316...you are wrong about the commas. I minored in English in College, but it has been quite a while, so I called a tennis friend who teaches Special Education English and read her the lines. Tikun is right, you are wrong. I will go by her judgement, she should know. She has an MA in English Lit, and I happen to agree with her too. My friend I think is a bit more educated in this department than you. You are wrong. Tikun is right.

If you do not want to make yourself appear as an idiot, maybe you should try phrasing your sentences differently. so there would be no question. In this case you are wrong. As far as the genocide thing goes...I will go back over the conversations again, but if I remember correctly, if the people who are supposed to the object of a genocide are actually increasing in numbers..then I do not think it is a genocide...but right now that is neither here nor there. If you do not take my friend's word for it, then go over to your nearest school and ask a teacher or call one. But, like I said in this case you are wrong.
318

Lynne,

02/02/2008 18:57:54
I came across this link on another post, and thought some of you would be interested in the story of Pallywood, and how these lies are told to all of Europe and the middle east. It just might open your eyes.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

319

57Nomad,

california 02/02/2008 23:23:46
#315 bob

I've finally figured you out. You are a masochist. I have been pounding you in public for days and now you're back for more. Lets take it from the top.

bob said:

"But in #303, still talking about the same thing, he suddenly changed his mind. Major flip flop, in his case more flop than flip, and quoted an edu website that he obviously agreed with that said:

"There are 11 simple rules that govern the comma in AP style. Be aware that this is a particular STYLE. Other STYLES have different rules for comma use."


From that you infer what? Let me ask you that a little differently. Where does it say that EVERY rule is different because there are different styles. You and your loser friend spent days insisting the comma was unnecessary. I have posted the relevant rule and if you think that you can find a text expressing any style anywhere on this planet where the rule we have been discussing is not applied, I urge you to cite it. Just find one, (1), uno, une, ichi, odeyn, single text anywhere and post it. I know one thing for sure, if you find one it will be written by the Lose Brothers. I'm right and I posted my sources, you're wrong and leaning on a thin read to try to preserve a shred of the dignity that you, loser, lost by being stupid enough to pick a fight with 57Nomad. I WON, YOU LOST. That makes you A LOSER. Embrace it because it's never going to change.

Just one more thing you are inferring that if I looked looked in the mirror I would see an L on my forehead. Are you going out of your way to be stupid. If a person has an L on their forehead and looked in the mirror, you lummox, you would see a backward L. In order to see an L on your forehead when you would have to have a backward L on your forehead. A backward L would simply look like the bottom and right hand side of a rectangle. It carries no significance at all. Idiot!

I noticed this in your post to Lynne:

"did you mean he was right when he claimed that there was one s
320

57Nomad,

california 02/02/2008 23:27:39

I noticed this in your post to Lynne:

"did you mean he was right when he claimed that there was one set of rules for commas that could not change?

Or was he right when he quoted a website claiming that there were many styles of comma use and all were valid?"

If you will look at what I said, you will see that the rule of 'the nominative of direct address' does not change. There is no contradiction whatsoever in what I stated. In some states the speed limit may be 65 mph in others it may be 75mph. Two different speed limits. But in every state it is illegal to proceed through a cross walk when there are school children with a crossing guard carrying a big red stop sign. So, you see one can say, beware there are different traffic rules for every state. What you are saying is that "there are different traffic rules for every state, negates the rule that proceeding through a crosswalk when it is occupied by school children being led by a crossing guard carrying a big red stop sign.

And from this exalted position of "Loser in Chief" you say to Lynne the followning:

""Now you see now what backing a loser does for you Lynne. You end up looking as stupid as he does."

To sum up this contretemps, It is Elwood Blue’s position that this phrase

“Be aware that this is a particular STYLE. Other STYLES have different rules for comma use."

Must be interpreted as, other STYLES differ in every single one of these rules.

I would like you to point out where that is said. What I said was that the nominatives of direct address rule does not change. I didn’t say that everyone of the other rules was unchanging and I don’t appreciate you implying that I did one little bit.

Elwood, if you were as stupid as either Lynne or me that would be orders of magnitude smarter than you are now, loser.







321

57Nomad,

california 02/02/2008 23:30:58


Now for your daily logic lesson although I fear the subject is beyond you.

Where did all this start? I will lay it out step by step.

Step # 1. In post #6 I said:
“Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Israelis are not practicing genocide in Palestine. Look around. Do you see Palestinians? Sure you do. If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead.


In post #16 Finnking replies:

57Nomad,

"Roberta, here's how you can tell that the Israelis are not practicing genocide in Palestine. Look around. Do you see Palestinians? Sure you do. If the Israelis were practicing genocide, you wouldn't see any of them, they would all be dead."

--So, in your opinion, there was no genocide in 30/40's Europe? I await Daithe (alt?), Lynne and Tikun to be on you like poop on velcro for being a "denier".


This is Finns way of making the following assumption. That I said that if the jews were practicing genocide, all the Palestinians would be dead is the same as me saying:

The definition of genocide requires that the victims all be killed.

I said nothing of the kind and he knows it. What I did say is that if the Israelis wanted all the Palestinians dead that Israel has the means at their disposal to do it. Nowhere did I say that it was a requirement. Any attempt to say that I did is a deliberate deception by a couple of embarrassed losers. Nowhere did I say that the deaths of all the victim’s people be necessary to qualify.

322

57Nomad,

california 02/02/2008 23:34:39



This was the beginning of the painful sight of bob and the fish propeller’s trying to walk across the tar pits.

The essence of their argument is this.

A. I said that if the Israelis were practicing genocide on the Palestinians then all of the Palestinians would be dead

B. But, the Germans who were practicing genocide on the Jews didn’t kill all of them. From that, they conclude that since the Germans didn’t kill all of the Jew’s and I said that if the Israeli’s wanted to perpetrate genocide on the Palestinians they could kill them all that either the Israelis were practicing genocide or the Germans weren’t.

C. In a subsequent post I pointed out that a sine qua non of genocide if that after it happens that there would be fewer members of the victims after the genocide that there was before the genocide and if it turned out that there were more of the population after the genocide, then the term genocide could not be implied.

From this I concluded that Roberta’s assertion of Israeli genocide could not be sustained because it contained an internal contradiction. That is, if you label something genocide there must be fewer people in the victim group after the genocide than there are before the genocide started. But, since the Palestinian population is increasing the accusation of genocide could not be sustained. I would diagram this argument thusly.

A-> genocide B-> decreased population.

If you have A then you have B

You do not have B

Therefore, you don’t have A.

This is a fundamental law of rational thinking. It is called Modus Tollens. No matter how they wriggle around the Lose Brothers cannot argue with this logical imperative. The question of whether or not fewer and none are or are not the same thing is insignificant
323

57Nomad,

california 02/02/2008 23:37:12


In both cases, some dead or all dead, if the victim group’s population is decremented, then genocide is a possibility. If there are fewer it can be genocide and if there are none it can still be genocide. Whether or not fewer and none are the same thing is absolutely irrelevant. And anybody who says otherwise is a loser.
324

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 03/02/2008 02:04:18
Atempted genocide = Attempted genocide

325

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 03/02/2008 02:06:20
There are also many more Jews in the world today even after Hitler's ATTEMPTED genocide.
326

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 02:51:11
According to the news, here in America, Hamas now wants to cut itself off from Israel, and have the Egyptians taking care of them and supplying them. How great for Israel to get that monkey off its back. No need to support the people trying to kill them..Arabs taking care of Arabs.. a novel idea.
327

lielayer,

03/02/2008 12:13:20
326
Lynne

UN rights council criticizes Israel for Gaza violations

The UN Human Rights Council Thursday adopted a resolution criticizing Israel for recent military attacks and a week-long blockade against the Palestinian-controlled Gaza Strip that the Council says amount to human rights violations. The resolution, passed by a 30-1 vote with 15 Western states abstaining, calls the military attacks on Palestinian areas "grave violations of the human and humanitarian rights of the Palestinian civilians therein" that "undermine international efforts" in the region. The resolution also:

2. Calls for urgent international action to put an immediate end to the grave violations committed by the occupying Power, Israel, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including the series of incessant and repeated Israeli military attacks and incursions therein and the siege of the occupied Gaza Strip;

3. Demands that the occupying Power, Israel, lift immediately the siege it has imposed on the occupied Gaza Strip, restore continued supply of fuel, food and medicine and reopen the border crossings;

4. Calls for immediate protection of the Palestinian civilians in the Occupied Palestinian Territory in compliance with human rights law and international humanitarian law;

5. Urges all parties concerned to respect the rules of human rights law and international humanitarian law and to refrain from violence against the civilian population...

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2008/01/un-rights-council-criticizes-israel-for.php
328

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 15:37:28
lielayer, who heads the security council this month?, and who cares what they say?
Every day hundreds of African Tribesmen are killed in Dafur, each day bombs launched by Hamas to kill Israeli civilians DELIBERATELY..Hezbollah, who was supposed to disarm, didn't, won't let elctions happen in Lebanon until they are guaranteed 1/3 of the seats in their Parliament,and don't forget they are funded by Syria and Iran,trying to bring about the total collapse of that gov't.
All these are barbaric crimes, calling for international action. But the United Nations is not even concerned about them. None of these abuses of human rights of human rights by dictatorships, or movements was the object of the General Assembly resolution "condemning the military assaults...which have caused loss of life and the destruction of property ..and in particular..the loss of civilians..including women and children. For none of these violations of the right of life did the UN did the UN summon righteous indignation to " emphasise the
importance of the safety and well being of civilians."

Rather than it concerns itself with a country who is trying to defend itself.
329

Lynne,

03/02/2008 15:38:55
continued
• In August 2005 Israel disengaged from the entire Gaza strip, after pledges by the Palestinian Authority (PA) that it would not use the area to wage war on Israel, and that it would remain faithful to the "roadmap for peace."
• Immediately after Israeli disengagement the Palestinians broke their word. Hamas-backed terrorists have fired more than 1,000 Qassam rockets at Israeli civilians like Mrs. Slutsker. Via arms smuggling operations in southern Gaza, terrorists have brought in more than 30 tons of high explosives. This massive smuggling of lethal weapons from Egypt has taken place with the silent complicity of Cairo (Egypt had promised to seal its border against terrorist traffic under an international accord brokered Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice), and with no effort by PA police to prevent the transit. Indeed, the Palestinian government itself essentially declared war on Israel with the election of Hamas. The kidnapping of an Israel soldier and killing of two others by forces the PA clearly harbors if not supports is another transparent act of war.

• Bombs fall regularly on Sderot and Ashkelon, Israel, from northern Gaza in general and from the village of Beit Hanoun in particular. Hamas spokesmen have admitted that one of their key objectives is to force the evacuation of all Israeli towns and villages around the Gaza Strip. Obliged to protect its own civilians, Israel initially used its intelligence to target the locations of individual murderers, but both because of intelligence failures and the craven use of Palestinian women and children as human shields, the Jewish state has put these targeted killings on hold.
• Israel's remaining recourse, short of re-occupying Gaza (which doubtless will incur the indignant wrath of the world community...) is to launch missiles at the sites of rocket launchers. This it has done. Because of equipment failure, one single missile missed its mark, landing instead on an apartment house and tragically ki
330

Lynne,

03/02/2008 15:40:05
continued

Because of equipment failure, one single missile missed its mark, landing instead on an apartment house and tragically killing nineteen women and children. Israel expressed extreme regret immediately for this event (one searches in vain for such contrition from Hamas). But of course the Hamas murderers are the ones who bear ultimate moral responsibility for these deaths.
331

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 15:41:35
continued

• Angry residents screamed at the car that brought UN Commission on Human Rights Louise Arbour under heavy security to Sderot early Tuesday. The day before, Québécoise law professor had slammed Israel for "intolerable violations" of Palestinian human rights during a visit to Gaza's Beit Hanoun.
Therein lies the rub, the incredible rub, the impossible-to-explain-otherwise-than-as-anti-Semitism rub. The one Israeli missile that struck the Beit Hanoun apartment house was: 1) launched in justifiable self-defense; 2) reasonably produced and targeted; and 3) absolutely not intended to kill civilians. The daily Palestinian bombs, meanwhile, are 1) acts of aggressive war; 2) callously launched without any effort to aim them accurately at military targets (in fact, legal experts long ago concluded that the use of the notoriously inaccurate Qassams are ipso facto a war crime since they simply cannot be targeted); and 3) in fact meant to kill and terrorize civilians.
332

Lynne,

usa 03/02/2008 15:43:06
continued..

This asymmetry is well understood by Palestinians. The Jabaliya Refugee Camp in Gaza was the scene of Palestinian celebrations earlier this week. Locals celebrated the victory of female "human shields" in thwarting an air strike against the home of murderous terrorist Wail Barud. Note the implications of this celebration: it demonstrates that Palestinians know that Israel does not seek to kill civilians wholesale. Palestinians do not believe their own propaganda about the Zionist thirst for blood -- otherwise they would not have been able to recruit those human shields. Human shields are worthless in the face of the heinous enemy Israel is supposed to be. If Israel placed "human shields" in front of Hamas, they would be mowed down.
In the face of this asymmetry, how does the international community react? Why, by blaming the Jews, as Ms. Arbour has done. For fourteen days, despite all the tragedies in the world, the UN has done virtually nothing but condemn Israel for its reasonable act of self-defense
333

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 15:47:59
Parts of this has been taken from from an article on The UN's Jew-Obsession..

Most of us consider the UN a joke, a waste of the taxpayer's expense..a do-nothing organization that only looks to condemn Israel.

So far, neither Hamas, or Hezbollah has disarmed..and we hear NOTHING about comdenation on them.

334

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 15:52:06
I will repeat..as of last night, Hamas and Egypt's meetings about the holes blown into their wall, and the Palestinians rushing into Egypt, they are working on arrangements for Egypt to supply Gaza, and thereby Israel will no longer be responisible to supply the people trying to kill them.
I for one, whope these plans are worked out and Egypt takes over the responsibility for the Gazans.
It seems the novel idea, of Arabs taking care of Arabs...just might work.
335

lielayer,

03/02/2008 16:01:20
328
Lynne

"who cares what they say?"

WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and

to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and

to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and

to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

AND FOR THESE ENDS

to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and

to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS

Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations.

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/
336

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 16:12:46
lielayer..

Who cares!! The UN should go the way of the League of Nations.

The UN, like I said has an anti-Israel bias for years. Who cares what they say.

As a matter of fact, when will they comment on on the rest of the world's problems?

The UN should pack up, turn in their diplomatic license plates, pay thier millions of dollars in fines to the city of New York, and go home.
It is useless, worthless, and biased.

We could use the land for condos and make money for a change.

Don't preach to me about the UN. I am not the only one with these views.
337

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 16:17:36
lielayer..

AND FOR THESE ENDS

to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and

to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,


launching daily rockets into Sderot and other cities is not trying to live together in peace.

I HAVE MADE MY CASE.
338

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 16:19:00
lielayer

I should say...

YOU HAVE MADE MY CASE
339

Lynne,

USA 03/02/2008 17:36:23
continued..lielayer...

Just another view for you to read

UN fails to agree Gaza statement
By Laura Trevelyan
BBC News, United Nations
The UN Security Council has abandoned its attempt to agree a statement on the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip following a blockade by Israel.
Israel tightened its embargo after a sharp rise in rocket attacks from the Palestinian territory on its southern towns, leading to acute shortages.
The UN statement, which must be agreed by all 15 members of the council, would have called for an end to hostilities.
But Libya wanted language more critical of Israel than the US would accept.
Bridging the divide
What began as an effort to make a statement on the humanitarian situation in Gaza following Israel's closure of the border crossings failed because the fault lines on the Middle East run so deep in the Security Council.
After eight days of negotiations, there was no bridging the divide between the US, a staunch ally of Israel, and Libya, representing the Arab world.
GAZA BLOCKADE
17 January: Israel seals border following rise in rocket attacks
20 January: Gaza's only power plant shuts down
22 January: Israel eases restrictions
22 January: Egyptian border guards disperse Palestinian protest against closure
23 January: Border wall breached

Unlike Security Council resolutions, which are voted on, statements have to be agreed by all 15 countries.
On Friday night, it looked as though 14 nations were supporting a statement calling for an end to Israel's blockade and an end to rocket strikes against Israelis launched from Gaza.
But then Libya, on behalf of Arab countries, wanted to change the language on Monday to be more critical of Israel's role.
At that point diplomats decided to abandon their efforts. Libya's ambassador blamed the US for rejecting the changes sought by Arab countries.
But the US deputy ambassador at the UN, Alex Woolf, said: "It's no mystery that we haven't been able to