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Holyrood faces its own winter of discontent as 150,000 vote to strike



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Published Date: 01 August 2008
SCOTLAND faces a potentially crippling industrial dispute as unions representing more than 150,000 council employees yesterday announced their members had voted to strike.
On the day that many Scottish Government civil servants took part in a one-day strike over pay, GMB Scotland and Unite confirmed their members had backed industrial action.

Unison, the biggest of the local government unions, is set to confirm today that its members have also decided to strike.

Senior staff from all three unions will meet today to decide what action should be taken.

The unions have warned that strikes will mean schools closed, rubbish uncollected and many other areas of local government work grinding to a halt.

It is expected that the unions will start with one-day walkouts, but will escalate the action if the deadlock is not broken.

Members of the three unions are furious over the pay offer from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Cosla) of just 2.5 per cent a year for the next three years.

The offer is better than the 2.4 per cent deal in England which has provoked action south of the Border, but they say it does not keep pace with the cost of living. They point out that gas prices are to go up 35 per cent, bread and milk are up 14 per cent, butter 31 per cent and eggs 39 per cent.

"It's no wonder our members have rejected this deal," said Alex McLuckie of GMB Scotland.

A Unison spokesman added: "Yesterday's announcements of further major hikes in heating bills will have confirmed the need for the employers to seriously address the shortcomings in their offer."

David Mundell, the shadow Scottish secretary, blamed Gordon Brown's government for the problems. "His weakness has created a have-a-go atmosphere for the unions," he said. "Both Scotland's governments now need to tackle this strike and protect public services."

Cosla has insisted there is no more money available. Michael Cook, its spokesman, said: "I am naturally saddened that our trade union colleagues are moving towards strike. I believe that our current differences are best resolved through negotiation and we are available for constructive discussion that takes us towards a mutually agreed solution."

The Scottish Government has said it is an issue for Cosla to resolve. A spokesman added: "The Scottish Government has provided record funding for local government despite an extremely tight financial climate."

There was a dispute over how many civil servants took part in the strike called by the Public and Commercial Services Union yesterday.

PCS said 95 per cent of its members took part, but the Scottish Government insisted that 19 per cent of staff and 41 per cent of PCS's members were on strike.

PCS has claimed that the government insists on a cap of 2 per cent on pay rises, but the government says it has offered up to 20 per cent for the lower paid.


The full article contains 502 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 31 July 2008 9:40 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 00:05:33
Salmond, Swinney and the SNP are a total mickey mouse government of toy town.

They are too busy putting signs up, taking signs down and painting trains to do any real work or take care of our county's staff, wellfare and livlihoods.
2

ThomasP,

01/08/2008 00:14:50
#1

You need a hobby
3

S'me,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:18:10
The nationalists honeymoon drawing to a close, now real government starts... with tough decisions, not the easy populist token policies.
4

South Gyle Prisoner,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:22:43
Is it any surprise that the Trade Union Labour Party Careerists [i.e. salaried union officials] are now manipulating their membership to pick a fight with an SNP Government whilst ignoring the fact that it is Westminster Labour that got us into the mess in the first place.

Yes they deserve more so wheres the cash coming from Gordon Brown?
5

S'me,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:34:29
Every country on the planet is having the same problems if you haven't noticed.. it is a global economic crisis, not the doing of one government here or there.
6

Resolutions,

01/08/2008 00:40:16
Now just how is a strike going to pay those fuel bills?

Certainly will 'conserve' fuel -

But fuel etc controlled by Westminster lot. And they appear oblivious.
7

Peeablo,

Annoyed with 60 years of Labour 01/08/2008 00:41:41
#1 Mr Angry, the SNP won, please, get over it.

On the other hand you could join in the debate or even comment on the article (shock/horror)rather than the pap your writing.
8

,

01/08/2008 00:56:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Iainbroch,

Moray 01/08/2008 01:07:51
re 7

Reasoned Debate, Rational discussion of issues, honesty etc is not something you are going to get from a politically motivated hack or the columns of this rag!

Perhaps if those who make political levies from out of thier Union dues decided to keep them then some people might have more money in thier pockets to spend.

Indeed if they decided not to pay exorbitant union fees then those individuals would have even more spending money?

I fear that those unions especially the more pro liebour ones will get little public sypathy for thier causes, least of all from those of us who have been squeezed by the proverbials by a London gvt and its iniquitous scrapping of the 10p tax band.

Unlike the pro London Unions I do not have the luxury of going on strike. I think that some are in need of a reality check.

But then what are we to expect as they are only following the Creed that has been evangelised from Westminster for the last 30 years or so that Greed is the greatest good?

To many of us in difficult situations and lacking job and financial security we will have no sympathy - especially with those who are better paid and actually put in less hours than many of us in other working spheres in life? Not through choice but through necessity!
10

somerferg,

perth 01/08/2008 01:21:11

#11 -"UM" wow your smartest comment yet!
11

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 01/08/2008 01:23:31
9 annoyed with spelling
You wrote,

"You know, the SNP voters are incerdibly stupid."

I thank you for your most eloquent destruction of your own point.
12

Arthur G,

Glasgow 01/08/2008 02:21:29
So, "Annoyed with the SNP" is today's guest Hootsmon agent provocateur? One or other of the more experienced 'trolls' should give him or her a few tips on not showing one's hand too soon.
13

kirk 1,

01/08/2008 02:34:07
Holyrood will face no such thing.
Everybody knows who will get the blame, i think the author of this article is still smarting from his put down by Salmond.
14

Steve,

Bo'ness 01/08/2008 02:36:26
Yeah bring down the SNP govt. at all costs, when it's Labour's fault.

Unions eh? Some things never change.
15

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 01/08/2008 03:04:50
Come on folks think positive! All that will happen is that you and me will find out just how many of then we can do without.
A bit like some of to-days contributors!
16

indune1,

Canada 01/08/2008 03:26:13

FFS! When will we read some informed, educated and engaging comentary from this rag?

A winter of one's discontent implies that you are at the depths of your discomfort but soon to turn into the spring and summer of your comfort.

Read Shakespeare. An English bard but not a bad one at that.

17

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 01/08/2008 04:36:22
how can a country work effectivly, when 51% work for the public sector and 49% for the private? were does the money come from for a wage rise? unite union has decided to adopt an agressive approach of shock and awe! good old fashioned union bullying! labour are weak under brown and the unions think their an easy target to get some laws changed before their kicked out! all their doing is hasting the return of a conservative goverment south of the border and an independent scotland! then again unions forget the majority don't like them any more than they like the fat cats in the city! going back to the seventies is not a solution, life on mars! i think some of the unions have HQ'S there!
18

donald anderson it's me,

01/08/2008 05:09:15
This must be the first strike in history backed by Labour.
19

Pilrig.,

Livingston 01/08/2008 05:41:36
13 - that's the sound of him trying to think
20

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 01/08/2008 06:13:41
I understand some councils have factored savings from strike action into their budget plans.
21

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 01/08/2008 07:23:14
Renationise SCOTLAND put it in the hands of the people, and then let's rock and roll!!!!!!!!!
22

E300,

01/08/2008 07:36:06
One day strike saves £10 on Council Tax. Could they extend it to 10 days and round up the saving to £100?
23

bluehead,

edinburgh 01/08/2008 07:59:20
I am afraid the small inflationary increases to the pay packets of the british workers will soon be a thing of the past,with the enormous amounts to be added to people's expenditures,like recent gas ,electricity ,foodstuffs,plus all most verything else,
any day, very soon,people will not have a reasonable life to live because of what is happening,there will be little help from the present, disgraceful goverment,who on top of everything else have destroyed this once great nation by selling us of to foreign countries, the doom and gloom factor is no longer a joke,it has arrived and it here to stay.!!!!
24

Brian M,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 07:59:48
"Members of the three unions are furious over the pay offer from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Cosla)"

The majority of these local authorities are Labour controlled. They must be in agreement with this offer as they have not come out in opposition.
25

scottish person,

paisley 01/08/2008 08:10:41
Google Illuminati.
Bliar/Broon/Clinton/Bush.
They are taking over.
26

Linda,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 08:33:13
Unionists really are financial illiterates and should do the sums.

Scottish Government received 2.5% increase from Westminster despite Scotland contributing £6 billion surplus to London this financial year.

So how can they pay above the 2% pay awards set by London government which can and does borrow its way out of trouble.
27

thinking,

Scotland 01/08/2008 08:39:23
#22 asks 'were does the money come from for a wage rise?'
As there is no such thing as Government money, only taxpayers' they will be paying themselves in increased taxes!!!!!
28

Scottish 'N British,

01/08/2008 08:50:18
Swinney may have outflanked councils with his "historic concordat", but the unions aren't as daft.

Moreover, the p1-3 maximum 18 issue and pay deals won't go away.

Councils have had to make £m's in budget savings to meet their part in this deal. This pay settlement is one deal too far.

Time for Swinney and Salmond to step up to the plate, methinks.
29

sheena,

at home 01/08/2008 08:55:09
21 - Reminds me of Glasgow Scout Shop's brilliant slogan for their end of season sale - 'Now is the winter of our discount tents'.
30

Linda,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 08:59:23
One bonus of strike is that civil servants will not have to waste more money on Lord Foulkes vexatious and pointless questions.
31

Al D,

01/08/2008 09:00:35
When the whole country faces financial hardship the Red brigade come out of the woodwork to stir up trouble, and this can only make matters worse. We will all have to pay for any concessions, the superior pensions/retirement age enjoyed by public sector workers will also cripple us
32

Scottish 'N British,

01/08/2008 09:07:18
36

Of course, you'd be happy to settle for 2% when inflation is at 4%+.

At time's like this Swinney reminds me of Rigsby. It's Time for the amiable John to get out his purse.
33

mr angry,

ayrshire 01/08/2008 09:19:05
#37 you moron , I would happily accept 2%. I have to work for a living in the real world where I am getting 0%
increase. These clowns need to realise how lucky they are with a job for life and pension at the end. Fit them better if they started to realise that the country is bust and only way out is to cut public spending and therefore get some of these parasites off the publics backs.
34

Daveunderwater,

01/08/2008 09:22:03
# 37

The strings on the purse you mention are tied at Westminster, not Holyrood dear chap.
35

Red Ken,

South East Asia 01/08/2008 09:25:12
#10

According to my source who works in the Scottish Government i.e. my brother if you are on top of your wage scale you get 2% plus a non-consolidated payment. The non-consolidated payment not pensionabale but taxable and does not increase your annual salary. While inflation in going up this is a wage cut of the staff on the top of the scale. Plus there are a few other bits and bobs.

The SNP led government have divided the staff and have threatened to impose the pay offer on all staff.
36

Daveunderwater,

01/08/2008 09:27:06
Anyway once the Tories get back in they will be back with the strong arm tactics, remember Maggie the Miner Basher?

And Scotland as usual will be the guinea pig, I can see the headline now

"Scottish Unions Battle in Street"
37

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 09:28:17
As an SNP Supporter, I'm very angry at the latest
info regarding the 2011 Census being carried out
by a questionable organisation.

http://www.petitiononline.com/GSTWCACI/petition.html
38

mr angry,

ayrshire 01/08/2008 09:35:10
#40 the problem is that to keep the public sector employed , it means the very people who pay their wages losing employment. What needs to happen is for taxes to be cut , government spending cut , and let the private sector create real jobs.
Unfortunately in life you cannot just manufacture jobs and have everybody work for the government. The money has to come by bleeding the private sector to death.
No country can survive where the majority are in government jobs, eastern europe proved that big time.
With your reasoning everybody will be poor. Nice thought but not financially possible.
39

lyn,,

perth 01/08/2008 09:47:32
If the government only offer's on average 1 to 2% instead of the 4% which should be offered the government are saving overall as you multiply this over ten years the loosers are us while they save and do nothing to help the average person live comfotably.
With my 1% increase this year this barely covered my union fee's and if the unions don't get there act into gear and sort this long standing arguement out then I will be putting that extra £120 towards my now increased gas and electric bills instead.
40

sed109,

edinburgh 01/08/2008 09:47:36
#38 jobs for life - what planet are you on. The government is about to shut the passport processing centre in Glasgow - with job losses. public sector jobs are no nonger fo life, and the pensions aren't free. They ae paid for though both company(Government) and staff contributions just like any one else with a company pension.
41

Al D,

South Queensferry 01/08/2008 09:48:43
#38 Spot on, whilst most people will realise the invaluable contribution some areas of the public sector make and are duly rewarded with early retirement etc, those same poeple also recongise the over populated/under worked departments that would not be viable or tolerated in the real world and place a burden on the more deserving, the skivers probably consider themselves to be socialists, hypocrits to the end!
42

MoragfraeEdinburgh,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 09:50:26
"SCOTLAND faces a potentially crippling industrial dispute " - steady on, apart from rubbish collection the striking by public sectors workers would not be noticed by the general public. "Crippling" it would not be. Easier to get to work and park for the rest of us maybe.
43

Alan B,

01/08/2008 09:54:52
#sed109

Most pulbic sector jobs are for life. Occassionaly a government might impose compulsory redundancies but not normally. As far as i know this government said no compulsory redundancies when trying to make efficiency savings.

From what i have seen of the public sector it is very difficult to get rid of someone. Partly due to the pension arrangements people tend to hang on when bored rather than moving to another job (something that tends to happen in the private sector).

The point about pensions and the public sector as they are much better than the private sector ie the people who pay for the public sector. This is due to 1)the continuing final salary schemes that have been done away with generally in the private sector. 2)the early retirement deals you can get with public sector.

Have known people to take early retirement from public sector get decent pension and then take another job with the public sector.

44

inkster,

01/08/2008 09:55:30
#40 Dave

Civil servants are employed persons but they produce little. In the private sector, they would be termed 'overheads' by people in manufacturing, research and sales. Many a good business grinds to a halt when the 'overheads' cost more than the productive staff can take.

Taxpayers can only pay so much tax. The limit has been reached.
Civil servants will have to be sacked. Perhaps a few of them they can become productive citizens instead of taking early retirement and sucking the taxpayer dry.

You need civil servants, but each town needs only what would be termed now as an expert skeleton staff controlled by a town council and a Provost.

51% is a terrible indictment of previous administrations.

45

mr angry,

ayrshire 01/08/2008 09:57:35
#48 Thats just because the London government want to protect the jobs in middle England, its a job transfer.
It will not save the public a penny, its just Labour being petty because they do not like the SNP.
I still believe that the most secure job and pensions are in the public sector and people in the private sector , many with no pension or early retirement, job security and who are getting ZERO pay increases are paying for the public sector jobs.
Reality is that th estrikes will only confirm what we currently think , ie most of them will not be missed. Whilst there are key jobs that are essential in the public sector there are also plenty of non jobs and overstaffed areas that would not be missed.
THey should be delighted they are getting a pay rise and have guaranteed jobs in the current situation.
46

Miss H,

01/08/2008 10:02:26
19 This is not going to bring down the SNP Government. The employers are the local authorities not the Government - the civil servants are the government employees.

Neither the Government nor COSLA are going to meet union demands because they don't have the money to do that. In their hearts I think most employees know this.

So we will have a couple of one day strikes and then they will settle.

47

Al D,

South Queensferry 01/08/2008 10:02:52
Blair backed down on the public sector pension schemes and left Brown with the mess. The general public will not have any sympathy kmowing the ineqaulity of the pension and redundancy system the publuic sector enjoy, it is the unions that are stirring up the trouble to generate their own importance
48

Alan B,

01/08/2008 10:03:19
#inkster

Where do get 51%?

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/11/28151648/6

diagram suggest that almost 4 times as many people work in the private sector in scotland as opposed to the public sector.


2006-

585,600 public sector
1,873,400 private
2,459,00 total

49

Alan B,

01/08/2008 10:04:53
more like 3 times.
50

Miss H,

01/08/2008 10:06:19
22 Rubbish. Fewer than a quarter of employees work for the public sector in Scotland.
51

Alan B,

01/08/2008 10:07:25
#Al D

Agree with you regard public sector pension reform but think Brown was a culpable as blair. Brown helped ruin the whole private sector pensions.
52

Man of Reason,

01/08/2008 10:08:29
#38 Maybe you should have worked harder at school so you could get a decent job?

You describe local government workers as "parasites" but I'm sure you'd be first to complain if your roads weren't maintained, the litter wasn't picked up, your kids' schools were closed down, your rubbish wasn't collected, your granny didn't get her home help and your council house was no longer provided.

I'd say they are pretty essential.
53

Man of Reason,

01/08/2008 10:11:39
#50 MoragfraeEdinburgh - see my post #60
54

Scottish 'N British,

01/08/2008 10:13:38
The Scottish Government has said it is an issue for Cosla to resolve. A spokesman added: "The Scottish Government has provided record funding for local government despite an extremely tight financial climate."

And if they (Cosla) can't?


55

Red Ken,

01/08/2008 10:14:00
What some people seem to forget is that if there were no public sector workers the country would grind to a halt. Who would collect the dreaded taxes, collect your rubbish, run the courts, nurse you back to health, defend the country, police the streets, put out fires, replace the social workers and there is more.

Some people think that the private sector is the answer to everything that they dislike about the public sector workers. Well, wake up and smell the coffee the private sector is there to make a profit at your expense. We are already paying a huge amount for the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary and other projects through the PFI (or whatever its called). The private sector rips of the Government at every opportunity which means they want your cash !! If the private sector put in 'normal quotes' not pie in the sky quotes then you will save money.
56

Man of Reason,

01/08/2008 10:17:38
#54 Miss H

It is true that the employers are the local authorities. However, it was the SNP Government that removed local government's fiscal independence with their "historic concordat", so they must take responsibility for the consequences.
57

sed109,

South Queensferry 01/08/2008 10:20:49
#51
new entrants to the civil service are no longer being offered final salary pensions - they get average salary ones. A final salary pension is only as good as the salary you get paid. A band A it the scottish government retiring now with full final salary pension will get about £580 a month, not a lot for 40 years work. and try to remember that public sector workers pay tax too.
58

Alan B,

01/08/2008 10:29:03
#sed109

It is still alot better and more guaranteed than money purchased that you get with the private sector. If you money purchased does not make necessary returns where are you. There is not early retirement if you do have money in the pension fund.

Part of the problem for those not working for public sector is if you are going to retire at 60 and live till say 80 to get say 15,000 a year you would need to say 300,000.

Brown ruined private sector pensions by his tax increases on pension funds.
59

frank mcbride,

lusitania 01/08/2008 10:30:35
I support workers in their inaliable right to protect their wages and conditions.

Having said that, given the very tight spending round -from Westminster, coupled with the inability of the SG to raise extra monies, it is important to realise that any significant rise will lead to job LOSSES.

Union leaders, and more importantly Union members, should be applying pressure on Westminster to change its spending prioities - Iraq, Trident etc, etc, or withdraw their financial support.

However, until the people of Scotland vote for Independence, we will always be subject to Westminster's spending priorities.
60

Man of Reason,

01/08/2008 10:30:40
#66 Alan B

Why don't you apply for a job in the public sector then?
61

The Tin Man,

01/08/2008 10:30:57
If the scot exec wishes to give public sector workers a pay-rise in line with inflation, they should freeze the Council Tax, or cut revenue with a 3% LIT, and ensure that COSLA take full responsibility for negociations with the unions.

Furthermore, they shouldn't dare think of bringing public sector pensions in line with the private sector.
62

inkster,

01/08/2008 10:32:34

alan B #56

OK I accept your figures. 585,000 civil servants for a country of 5 million people is disgraceful. For example NZ manages on less than a tenth of that.
63

mr angry,

ayrshire 01/08/2008 10:33:38
#60 Clown , how would you know what job I have, believe me I have a good job , but work very hard for it.The roads are hardly maintained , education is diabolical , I pay over £2.5K a year council tax for someone to empty my bins once every 2 weeks. Hardly value for money, but explains how we support a bloated public sector. Maybe you should give up your cosy public job and get in to the real world.
64

Alan B,

01/08/2008 10:35:42
#sed109

I do not like some of the anti public sector workers comments posted.

But the whole thing is about balance. We must have enough private sector jobs to pay for public sector.

With regard to pensions, pensions are now far better in public sector and they are effectively paid for by the those in private sector who are getting poorer pension arrangements.

With regard to the pay rise it is difficult. The private sector employees are much more likely to get hit in an economic downturn. They are more likely to get salary freezes. They are most likely to be laid of. And they are then having to pay to give a better deal to those whose salaries they are effectively paying.

The underlying issue is also the fact brown has mismanaged the economy. Poeple are suffering from high oil prices petrol etc. As much of this is tax he should use the windfall tax revenues he is getting to lower petrol prices. Remember transport prices have a knock on effect on food prices etc. But the huge deficits he has lumbered the economy with make this difficult for him to implement.
65

Alan B,

01/08/2008 10:37:16
#68 Man of Reason

Get bored if i stay in a job too long. Could never do one job for 40yrs. A job for a year is long enough :)
66

mr angry,

01/08/2008 10:38:44
#72 Alan B excellent post , agree 100%. Unfortunately lots of people seem to think the money grows on trees.
Unfortunate fact is that there is no extra money and these people are very lucky to be getting pay rises at all. As I stated many of the people who pay their wages are receiving ZERO increase.
They need to realise how lucky they are in current situation.
67

The Tin Man,

01/08/2008 10:38:46
#54 Miss H

'Neither the Government nor COSLA are going to meet union demands because they don't have the money to do that. In their hearts I think most employees know this.

So we will have a couple of one day strikes and then they will settle'

...Personally, I don't think the unions will have a couple of one-day strikes, then settle for whet is likely to be a 2% pay cut every year, for the next three years.
68

Alan B,

01/08/2008 10:39:32
#inkster

Not my figures i just googled to check when figures were posted on this thread. Was not aware of the numbers before that.

It will also under estimate the number as there are a lot of people paid by the public sector that are technically private sector employees.

I agree with you in principle that we should have less public sector employment.
69

sam the god,

01/08/2008 10:41:34
#71 mr angry

£2.5k a year for council tax you must live in a big fancy house so i asume you get a good wage and can therefore afford to get a 0% wage rise unlike some others.
70

Thistledhu,

Fife 01/08/2008 10:48:22
I am a council employee, i am not furiouse at the pay offer its not great but in this climate a guaranteed rise for the next three years is something to be grabbed by both hands.

The unions UNISON in particular have been angleing for a strike for months now. The consultation period was a joke with Shop Sewards Targeting the less 'Bright Council workers' (a shop stewards words not mine). In meetings to get the go ahead for a strike ballot even then even then it was only a majority vote. Many members have yet to recieve their vote card.

I will state this now I and many of my colleagues do not support the Unions position and
WILL NOT GO ON STRIKE.
71

brownlie,

01/08/2008 10:48:37
70 Inkster

Labour's policy has, for years, been to replace functions carried out by civil servants by, after employing expensive consultants, employing private contractors in order to claim that they are cutting the civil service.

This has resulted in numerous private companies, such as IT providers, failing to deliver on the original contracts and going back, cap in hand, to the government to seek, and obtain, extra funding in order to keep services going.

You, therefore, have the ridiculous proposed situation where a group of private companies with no relevant experience taking over functions such as military training. Among them, I understand, is EDF(!?) an energy company who employs Brown's brother.
72

AJ Fife,

01/08/2008 10:52:28
#67,

Hits the nail on the head! The unions ire should aimed at Westminster and not Holyrood. Hoever, it's hardly a surprise that the Labour loving union leaders would try and sabotage the Scottish govt!
73

Man of Reason,

01/08/2008 10:55:58
#71 I'd say your employer doesn't value your hard work if they're offering you a 0% pay rise!

Mind you, us Clowns need the extra cash. Big shoes and red noses don't come cheap you know.
74

Bemused and above it all,

01/08/2008 11:02:48
So the SNP haters are out again, 'honeymoons over' etc, etc?
The reason for these strikes is due to NEW LABOUR & the previous admministration pushing through legislation and reforms which the SNP inherited, the whole mess of CHSCP's for example, which will screw the NHS & whats left of Social Work up, leading to privatisation of those services is NEW LABOURS millenium dome, a complete mess of a white elephant to leave the next government, they just never expected a new government in scotland before the UK, as such they blame the SNP just now, in england in a year or 2 it will be the Tories fault.
Labour are scum and deserve to be hung for what they have done to the people of scotland and the services we need
75

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 01/08/2008 11:03:49
Every working man deserves a fair wage increase both Private and Public, Both Governments scottish and Westminster are benefitting by not providing a decent wage increase, therefore blame should be evenly attributed, The greed of our governments and major employers is disgusting and they should all be punished...
76

The Tin Man,

01/08/2008 11:07:06
#82 Dave

The one sure-fire way to increase private-sector employment, is to reduce public-sector employment.

Reduced corp tax and VAT would certainly help businesses, but the principle thing is people having the get-up-and-go to start their own business in the first place.

A smaller government, and getting away from a 'State will provide' mentality is required.
77

Man of Reason,

01/08/2008 11:15:07
#73 Alan

I guess a year of flipping burgers would be more than enough. Makes sense to move on and expand your CV to include frying chicken, wrapping chips etc.
78

fife_pensioner,

Fife 01/08/2008 11:30:47
Who cares if these overpaid, underworked, well-pensioned numpties go on strike? Who'd miss half of them anyway? Maybe if they had less time off sick and did a decent day's work for their wage I'd have more sympathy.

Spend the money on a new Leisure Centre for Fife and get shot of half of these workshy wastrels.
79

Yeah1,

01/08/2008 11:34:26
#4

"Is it any surprise that the Trade Union Labour Party Careerists [i.e. salaried union officials] are now manipulating their membership to pick a fight with an SNP Government whilst ignoring the fact that it is Westminster Labour that got us into the mess in the first place."

Did you actually bother to read the article before commenting? If you had you would have seen that the Trade Union is also taking action in England:

"The offer is better than the 2.4 per cent deal in England which has provoked action south of the Border"

They are not just 'targeting' the Scottish Government and leaving Westminster alone as you seem to think.
80

Alan B,

01/08/2008 11:40:35
#86 Man of Reason

Abit too technical :)

You obviously missed your vocation as a career advisor.
81

Man of Reason,

01/08/2008 11:41:17
#87 Maybe when you can't get your car out of your drive because of the rubbish, rats and potholes, the local kids are running riot because the schools are closed and your neighbour has built a four-storey extension overlooking you garden in the absence of any planning controls, you will hark back to the good old days.

Presumably your shiny new leisure centre will be run by the private sector? Why not just join Bannatynes in Dunfermline? Too expensive you say?
82

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 01/08/2008 11:44:18
This argument over the ratio, efficiency and efficacy of private to public sector employees is purely a red herring. And one, whatever the steps taken to improve or maximise the above factors will take time before their effects can be measured.

It has to be remembered, in the present half-way house of devolution, the Scottish Government can only perform within a very restricted remit. One imposed to suit the mandarins of Westminster and Whitehall.

Given these restrictions and, if as has been claimed by one poster, Holyrood has decreed that the increases to civil servants should be varied between the lower grades getting higher than inflation increases and the higher grades less, this would seem to me, under the present circumstances an equitable solution. Infact a solution that should be adopted by the private sector.

It's an undeniable fact, that during times of rampant inflation hitting the basic commodities of life, it's the lower earners who are the hardest hit. If this fact is not recognised and mitigated then the effects of inflation are multiplide throughout society.

This lack of social awareness, or common sense, was a major factor in the hyper inflationary process that plagued us during the 70's and 80's and has played a significant role in creating the expansion of the yawning chasm between the rich and poor ever since.

If the SNP have put this policy in place they'r to be applauded for their initiative and for the justice and sense incorporated in it.
83

Miss H,

01/08/2008 11:46:59
85 How would you reduce public sector employment? Seriously. Which services which are currently paid for by the taxpayer do you want to abolish?
84

Sedov,

Scotland 01/08/2008 11:49:10
Over the next few years, as working people suffer from the effects of the greed and corruption of big business, who put their own interests before society,there will be more and more unrest. Most of it will be organised through the trade unions but some of will be spontaneous action taken by small groups as a protest to their severe drop in living standards of which we have all got used to in the "boom" years. Workers have enormous power to change things, if only they realised it. New Labour have no answer to the present crisis and appear to be stumbling more and more to the right in a vain attempt to be as Tory as the Tories. the other parties including the SNP have also no policies to challenge the status quo and those people who have decided, mainly out of protest, to support the NATS will be sorely let down as time goes by with no real progress. The millions who have abstained in voting for any party will have some comfort in their belief that "they are all as bad as each other" Interesting times indeed. Watch this space.
85

Miss H,

01/08/2008 11:49:14
75 - the poster at 78 doesn't agree with you.

They will settle because they do not have public support.
86

Thistledhu,

01/08/2008 11:57:33
Yeah1 the vote in England was only 51% in favour same old union tricks
87

Scottish 'N British,

01/08/2008 11:58:17
92

Aberdeen has, I believe, 11,500 employees. For a city of some 210,000?

Do you use your local library? I do. People are literally falling over themselves. There's anecdotal evidence that they need such high levels to manage the sickness levels.

Some (?all) councils have no compulsory redundancy agreements. This problem is, of course historic.

I thought Salmond was committed to smaller government?
So why wasn't this addressed in this famous concordat of his?


88

Brian Hill,

01/08/2008 12:06:07
"Salmond, Swinney and the SNP are a total mickey mouse government of toy town." says Annoyed with...

It must be so galling for unionists who 'know' how pathetic this SNP Government is and yet somehow said Government manages week in and week out to do things which the voters like.

It's enough to make you want to emmigrate....I believe Zimbabwe is welcoming incomers at the moment....


89

Hugh Jars,

Pots n' Pans 01/08/2008 12:06:11
Buckpool Loon @ 91
I'm not 100% sure which poster you are referring to, but (if you take Red Ken @41 comments), what is actually meant is that those at the top end of their pay scale, i.e. those earning what the post is reckoned to be worth (value for range), are the ones who are getting 2% plus the non-consolidated payment.
The other pay steps for each scale, of which there can be a few, are intermediate steps with the idea you work your way to the top (i.e. what its worth eventually) over a number of years.
So not only are those low paid workers in a low paid job, they are paid less than those doing the same job who have been in for longer (kind of like probationary stages).
In reality though, those low paid stages look like getting decent wages rises on paper, when you calculate the actual rise on their next pay step (which they would be getting anyway), it still amounts to approx 2% rise on that step.
The confusing figures are to do with how the SG senior management put the spin on it.

Of course, if this wasn't what you were referring to then feel free to ignore this post.
90

Thistledhu,

Fife 01/08/2008 12:09:50
if and when any strike happens it will not be a complete walk out for there is deep unhappyness with the prospect of a strike.

91

Scottish 'N British,

01/08/2008 12:23:09
Rarely is there a complete walk out as there's always the odd scab or two.

Whether this will satisfy the public when libraries, swimming pools, collection centres, etc are closed is another matter.

Hopefully it'll be settled.

Leadership is required. Notice when the news is good, Salmond is never far away. So where is he now?

Oh wait, I can see him. Can someone please ask the first minister to come out from behind his settee and deal with this matter?




92

inkster,

01/08/2008 12:42:53
Auckland 1.5 m people has 2000 civil servants
Wellington 200K people has 1440 civil servants
Christchurch 500K people has 362 civil servants

Aberdeen (according to #96 above)

210K people and 11500 civil servants.

If this is true across Scotland - we are stuffed, and pathetic.

93

kimba,

01/08/2008 12:47:54
102,Ah Dave,wondered how long it would take you to come to Salmonds rescue,hope you can persuade the GNB and UNITE,to not cause Salmond and co problems this winter,somehow i guess they'd tell you to go "forth and multiply".
94

Yeah1,

01/08/2008 12:47:56
#101

"I don't see you calling for Broon to shorten his Sussex holiday with his family"

Everyone is entitled to a holiday - surely its better for Brown to take a couple of weeks off to recharge his batteries than to keep working constantly and wear himself out?

I'm sure you wouldn't be expected to cancel a holiday at your work to deal with issues that can wait a couple of weeks till you return, so why ask someone else to?
95

GONNYNODEATHAT,

Glasgow 01/08/2008 12:48:07
Now the REAL TRUTH comes out: The SNP are Anti Trade Union.
96

Scottish 'N British,

01/08/2008 12:48:18

Credit Crunch and rising and shocking gas prices are affecting the g-l-o-b-a-l economy.

Knife crime - ask Kenny Mac, it's a d-e-v-o-l-v-e-d matter.

Pay Deals - blamed on cooncils and Westminster - Eck, fae his hiding place, says it's a' Cosla's fault.

BTW, re Eck's tour round the country - Inverness isnae too far away from Aberdeen - is he still going to Aberdeen?


hello? hello?
Anyone there.................?
97

Scottish 'N British,

01/08/2008 12:48:42

Credit Crunch and rising and shocking gas prices are affecting the g-l-o-b-a-l economy.

Knife crime - ask Kenny Mac, it's a d-e-v-o-l-v-e-d matter.

Pay Deals - blamed on cooncils and Westminster - Eck, fae his hiding place, says it's a' Cosla's fault.

BTW, re Eck's tour round the country - Inverness isnae too far away from Aberdeen - is he still going to Aberdeen?


hello? hello?
Anyone there.................?
98

Luke Skywalker,

01/08/2008 12:49:46
Thistledhu - I promise not to strike either. The unions can't see a realistic deal when it is in front of their nose. Of course I would like lots and lots more money but I have done a reality check.
99

JustMyOpinion!,

Stirling 01/08/2008 12:51:07
There have been many good points raised throughout comments made here, but surely to god if we're all so upset about this, why are we not taking a more voiced approach to challenging how we live!
The impact of the fuel strikes at Grangemouth were not heavily criticised enough as their action is heavily