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HBOS takeover is a 'shotgun marriage', says action group

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Published Date: 01 December 2008
THE takeover of HBOS by Lloyds TSB was condemned as a "shotgun marriage" yesterday by one of the leaders of the group behind a last-ditch legal attempt to stop the deal.
The Merger Action Group (MAG) – made up of businessmen, bank customers and shareholders – is seeking a legal ruling against Business Secretary Lord Mandelson's decision to set aside the Office of Fair Trading's (OFT) concerns over competition policy when he waved through the deal.

Group spokesman Malcolm Fraser said: "What we are wanting to do is make a level playing field so other people can look at whether there is an independent option for a stand-alone bank based in Edinburgh.

"That is a better bid possible for shareholders than the shotgun marriage that is on the table at the moment."

Mr Fraser, an Edinburgh architect who was responsible for the repair and renewal of HBOS's historic headquarters in the city, said the deal with Lloyds TSB would mean the loss of a "vastly important national institution" which would be merged into a "superbank".

He added: "We believe at the time the decision to force the merger was made, the decision was unlawful. There were not grounds to make that decision."

The Scotsman revealed on Saturday that MAG is to seek the ruling from the Competition Appeal Tribunal (CAT) – a specialist legal body whose function is to decide appeals on competition issues. Tribunal cases are heard by panels chaired by a judge who sits with two experts.

The UK government overruled competition concerns raised by the Office of Fair Trading when it gave the deal the green light. Lord Mandelson said at the time that the public interest of "preserving the stability of the financial system" outweighed any potential anti-competitive effects.

But MAG claims that the due legal process has been ignored and it is asking the CAT to sit in Edinburgh to hear the case, as both banks are registered in Scotland. The action group hopes to be able to reveal the names of supporters from politics and business over the next few days, but will only do so when those involved have signed up to the group, rather than just announcing their names in advance.

The group already has the support of 150 people who have signed up to its website www.mergeractiongroup.org. uk and the leaders hope to have 1,000 public backers by the end of the week.

It will cost a "six-figure sum" to pursue the case through the appeal tribunal, but again the organisers believe they will raise the necessary funds.

Alex Neil, an SNP MSP and consistent critic of the takeover, said MAG's challenge should win support from "business, savers and investors across Scotland". He said: "The OFT report makes clear that in creating a new 'superbank' the UK government's forced merger of Lloyds TSB and HBOS will harm the interests of customers, businesses and the mortgage market.

"Add to that the impact this will have on employment in Scotland and across the UK and it is difficult to see any benefit for anyone other than Gordon Brown or the management of both banks from this deal."

HBOS spokesman Shane O'Riordain said yesterday that the legal bid by MAG had "no merit whatsoever".

He added: "It is an unnecessary distraction and we would ask this group to reconsider their action. Our recommended transaction with Lloyds TSB is in the interests of all our stakeholders, including those in Scotland."


Page 1 of 1

 
1

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 01:26:23
It all looked so good for the London Labour Party, manipulating the Scottish banking sector whilst protecting England's Barclays and setting England's Lloyds up for the sale of the century.

They looked to have it all sewn up. Yes Neil and Sprowat were yelping in the background but they soon stopped their 'new buyer' by 'tilting' the so called level playing field and frightening off new buyers e.g. The Bank of China.

Then came the Scotsman's campaign and most alarming of all the white knights, Burt and Mathewson. Now it was starting to look like the expected victory was going to be a pyrrhic one.

Too much light was being shed on London Labour's dirty dealings and when the job losses marched boldly into the tens of thousands that was going to rebound fatally on London Labour's Scottish Branch.

My advice to Brown and Darling. CAT could be your best chance of sliding out from under this rather threatening mud slide which is hovering over you and your party. Take it!
2

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/12/2008 01:42:12
Shotgun wedding? There's only blanks in the cartridges.
3

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/12/2008 01:47:00
December 12. Bluff calling time.
4

Finlang,

France 01/12/2008 03:21:17
#1 Brian Hill

Your points are well made. Especially the "frightening off new buyers e.g. the Bank of China."

The cash-rich Bank of China (my bank when there) could have made a very interesting counterpoint to London Labour's grovelling sycophantic stupidity. I loathe this anti-Scottish Labour Party like never before. Brown is a weasel. His slimy spokes-vassals in Scotland are no less so.
5

Angleland Isover,

01/12/2008 06:50:40
Lets break free before they make Scotland into a 3rd world country (economically) and totally dependant on the grace of england.
6

SS,

01/12/2008 07:32:54
Get over it. Move on. I suspect the deal is done.
7

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek Australia 01/12/2008 08:00:10
Hi everybody, hpoefully one day the bank will again be Scotlands, strange thing, I have a large collection of books on or about the Hameland, my latest purchase on Ebay is "The Bank Of Scotland 1850-1950, see ya in the soup, Big rabbie.
8

Hmm ...,

01/12/2008 08:52:39
... Angleland (5) said "Lets break free before they make Scotland into a 3rd world country (economically) and totally dependant on the grace of england."

Too late, Angleland - all my life they have been asset stripping Scotland, starting with Maggie thatcher who intorduced the "leaner fitter companies" concept that encouraged larger (English) companies to take over smaller (Scottish) companies. COntrol passed to London and after a short period, the production lines were moved south as well. Keillers of Dundee (the jam in the jute, jam and journalism)was sold to Robertsons (golliwogs) of Manchester, who sold the sweet production to Callard and Bowser. My own employer was a highly respected financial services quoted company based in Edinburgh. Now the Edinburgh operation is only two call centres - one for new business and the other customer service.

Rosyth naval base was run down and closed and Edinburgh's Scottish & Newcastle brewery at Fountainbridge, at one time the largest in Europe, is now up for redevelopment and The Distillers Company's headquarters at Murrayfield is empty and management moved south.

Just what industry do we have left? Only financial services(so far) and tourism which is largely in bed and breakfasts often run by English refugees from the rat race!
9

Hmm ...,

01/12/2008 08:56:51
... and of course, if it takes a scorched earth policy to keep Labour in power, Gordon Brown will not hesitate to sell off Scotland's remaining businesses.

In his view, the only problem with the Lloyds offer for HBOS is that it will not be paid for in foreign currency to help shore up the plummeting pound!
10

Buckfastleigh,

01/12/2008 08:58:59
It's only about money...our money
11

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:08:48
The fact Fraser's company was paid to do the work on the HBOS HQ is irrelevant - why is this being made into a big deal? (He's not the architect I would choose to work on a historic building.)

He's also responsible for this monstrosity planned for Edinburgh:

http://www.eh8.org.uk/like_the_view

He's been making a chunk of his workforce redundant.

If he's involved, my vote's going to the Lloyd's takeover. I doubt his reasons for this challenge, and the 'venture capitalists' etc part of the group, go much beyond wanting to keep HBOS as the bank which funds the sort of large developments which spoil historic plces but make cash for themeselves.
12

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:12:37
Saturday's Scotsman:

"Other backers are believed to include Dan Macdonald, chief executive of Macdonald Estates, and Peter de Vinck, a company broker and venture capitalist. But the plan is to attract ordinary customers, shareholders and business account holders..."


13

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:22:45
"Macdonald Estates is a Scottish based property development and investment company focused on real estate development in a variety of sectors including retail, hotel and leisure, business space, town centre regeneration and masterplan conception and delivery..."

So basically, they are looking after their own interests.

14

thistle do,

here n' there 01/12/2008 09:25:13
"Alex Neil, an SNP MSP and consistent critic of the takeover, said MAG's challenge should win support from "business, savers and investors across Scotland".

He cannot be serious! A duff bank run by duff directors who still don't seem to be able to realise that they should resign for their perfromance. Why do these wee inward looking Scots forget about the Halifax dimension? Alex Neil...just another reason why there will never be an independent Scotland.
15

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:27:41
The same bank which asked small shareholders to buy more shares in the recent past, despite knowing that the price asked would plummet. Not a great deal for those who bought.

16

Number 6,

Germany 01/12/2008 09:35:51
Come on Liebour unionistas get on here and make buffoons of yourselfs again supporting Liebour's disgusting attacks on the Scottish banking system.

We have already had them trying to destroy the scottish banknote,when that failed they have now decided to take down the whole industry.
17

Nimrodel1353,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 09:37:47
Shane O'Riordan would say it's an unneccessary distraction - he's got a job on the Lloyds Banking Group.

Andy Hornby keeps saying it's in the best interests of everyone - he's got a Consulatants job with Lloyds banking Group.

Anyone seeing a thread of self interest here?
18

Lothian Unionist,

01/12/2008 09:38:07
All this peusdo Scottish nationlism is mis-directed. BoS hasn't existed for a number of years now. It's a trading arm of HBOS which despite stating that the Mound is the HO, it is for ceremonial purposes only. It has been run by English executives in Halifax since the first day of the merger.

If Spowart, Burt or Mathewson couldn't come up with any other viable plan, it tell's me more about them failing to attract an investor, rather than obstacles placed in their way.

As an employee and shareholder it appears that the Lloyds deal is the only one that might stave of the worst of the redundancies, either way people will be disappointed.
19

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:38:42
Which is why they are supporting the RBS then? Get real.
20

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:39:03
22 - I agree.
21

Lothian Unionist,

01/12/2008 09:39:31
#20 - Labour didn't bring down the Scottish banking system, greed, mis-management and a failed business model has seen to that.
22

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:40:22
25 Yes.
23

Warden An' All, Reborn,

01/12/2008 09:47:29
At the end of the day what is important is the safety of the savers money. We would not be in this situation we are in right now if it was believed HBoS could be trusted to run their own affairs, even with a change of managers. It might be a political decision who gets to take over HBoS, but that doesn't mean in the long run it is a bad one, even with the lost of jobs that might have had to go anyway with this recession.
24

Linda,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 09:48:40
Point about referral is that it could benefit shareholders if biding process was to be reopened. It would certainly save jobs if an overseas bank took over rather than Lloyds TSB.

25

Buttress,

01/12/2008 09:50:57
I doubt that those leading this care about anything much other than their own business interets.

Odd bedfellows - the same Fraser who not so long ago was writing in Socialist Worker?

26

Linda,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 09:51:18
LOthian Unionist.

Gordon Brown was chancellor when FSA expressed concerns about HBOS financial model (as imposed by Halifax.. not by Scottish bankers) in 2004.

Apart from his lax regulions in first place why waas no action taken sooner to control the excesses of the majority of UK Banks.
27

Ananurhing,

01/12/2008 09:58:54
#15 Buttress

Whilst I'm with you on the desecration of historic, architecturally sensitive areas, and architects are not my favourite people, why the personal attacks on Fraser? Repeating your posts from the other day, slating Fraser's work makes you seem as if your simply trolling, with a brief to muddy his name.

Not all his work is "brave new world". Fraser did work for me in the past on 2 historically sensitive, listed buildings, and did so very well. Liasing successfully with Cockburn and Hysteric Scotland. The results were pleasing, sympathetic, and uncontroversial.

Like his work or not, Fraser most certainly has a social conscience, has championed many good causes, and made as many principled standpoints. (i.e. the benefits of children in schools working in natural light. His resignation from the Forth Bridge Board over inappropriate development.)

I find your repeated attempts to attack him personally very suspect! What's your motivation, and what's it got to do with this story? Looks like trolling to me!
28

Lothian Unionist,

01/12/2008 10:05:08
Linda - I'm no fan of New Labour and they most certainly harbour some of the blame attached to the collapse of HBoS. Hindsight is a great thing though and ultimately there is no-one to blame for HBoS's predicament than themselves. They pushed out all the banking stalwarts and moved into the 'debt' chasing world that ALL the banks joined. It was a great ride while it lasted, all the executives made a killing, share prices moved from £5 to a peak of almost £12, huge dividends were paid and big institutions made fortunes of the back of HBoS and others. Now the real damage is started and it will take years to get back to anything like normality. I myself face the prosepct of losing my job for someone elses incompetence, that more than anything else, sticks in my throat.
29

morris,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 10:08:48
25
Senior Labour figures are known to have been meeting with Senior figures from the Lloyds TSB bank for almost 2 years,according to some English newspapers.I believe some even had pictures and witnesses to these claims.
What do you suppose they were discussing? Maybe they were trying to decide what cards to send at Xmas? I think not!
Just because our poor excuse for newspapers does not report anything (unless cleared by no 10) does not mean that nothing ever happens in the world!

I agree HBOS management were a sorry excuse but that does not detract from the fact that the New Liar Party have been monitoring this and planning it for ages.If the English Press knew about it so did the Scottish Press!
The contrast in reports on both sides of the Rio Tweed is pretty conclusive proof that it has been done for political purposes,and its been suggested (and is no secret) that Lloyds TSB are not too financially sound themselves,and some claims are that they needed bailing out almost as much as HBOS did. If Brown wants to escape these accusations and smells, then let HBOS take over the smaller Lloyds TSB with control here in Edinburgh. Its the same merger surely,what varies is which end is wagging which end of the dog.
This was a done deal and harms Scotland and only those who would put the Labour Party before their country would not question what has happened and why.I would further say anyone who did this is unfit to govern anyone let alone where I live!

BROON BARLING AND NEW LABOUR FOOL NO ONE! They are even less trustworthy than previous Tory governments were and that's saying something!

People who claim it is so because Gordon Brown said it was so are not a credible voice. The English Press say otherwise! It smells and the accusation of a shotgun wedding is exactly what we have here.
30

Buttress,

01/12/2008 10:14:33
I'm hardly trolling - I post on these pages very regularly - but despite the splash about Fraser's involvement in the work on HBOS HQ, this is the same Freser who described the Cockburn (which in reality is a consultee, that's all, on historic buildings apps) as the 'toxic wing' of conservation.


You may like his work, personally I think there are far better architects who can work with historic buildings and in historic plces.

And as for his work on the Caltongate development, well, many see that as betrayal.

http://www.independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/

Murray, Murphy and Malcy. Not doing a lot for Edinburgh in the eyes of some.



31

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 01/12/2008 11:19:47
Gosh, perhaps Fraser has seen the light? Perhaps he wishes to redeem himself? Funny campaign to choose though....there is still time to say it was a moment of madness, the building on Jeffrey street ......and once again you can twirl doon the mile in your kilt and be "the man o` the people" once more...go for it!
32

Buttress,

01/12/2008 11:29:52
"Like his work or not, Fraser most certainly has a social conscience, has championed many good causes, and made as many principled standpoints..."

www.eh8.org.uk

"Lets hope there will be no clashes with the police at Caltongate but that there is some light reflected onto the whole subject of Caltongate. The community would love to be involved in redesigning the Waverley valley and the north back of the Canongate - there are plenty architects and urban planners with the spirit of Paul de Ley in Edinburgh -if only there were given the chance.. "

http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/2008/11/rebellion-pays.html

So - let's see him start to champion the World Heritage Site, trying to save historic buildings to be demolished,including people's homes, community facilities not five star hotels and serviced apartments, common good land to be flogged off to Mountgrange, and genuine community involvement in planning.

Then I might begin to think he's heading this up for altruistic reasons...
33

Satire above all,

01/12/2008 11:35:03
Every Scot who is against this takeover should sign up at the website

http://www.mergeractiongroup.org.uk

You can vote for or against the takeover, make a donation, or simply state your opinion.
34

Buttress,

01/12/2008 11:37:02
Come on then Malcolm - you could join with Edinburgh World Heritage, the Cockburn Association, Save Our Old Town, SAVE Britain's Heritage, and many others, and say - Caltongate sucks!

Then we might start to take you seriously as the champion o' Embra's heritage.
35

cabrach loon,

inverness 01/12/2008 11:49:53
why not split up HBOS put Halifax back with its mortgages as a building society and BOS back as banking and let them go their own ways again / far far better surely.
36

Arfur,

01/12/2008 12:54:37
shotgun wedding
arranged marriage
forced marriage
37

Ewan Oosami,

01/12/2008 13:15:30
#39 - I'll drink to that!
I've already voted against the merger
38

English flag,

01/12/2008 13:16:34
There's nothing like sour grapes,and you scots are full of it.
39

English flag,

01/12/2008 13:18:13
Ewan Oosami. And i've already voted FOR the merger!
40

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

01/12/2008 13:44:48
Some here portray this as a choice between good and evil - it isn't - it's a choice between one evil and a lesser evil. To pretend there is some magic non-merger solution is quite simply pure fantasy.

One of the myths about HBOS is that it was the Halifax side that caused the problems not the Bank of Scotland side.

Unfortunately HBOS's latest trading statement somewhat blows that theory to pieces. It said that HBOS faced write-downs of £5.2bn for the first 9 months of this year including £1.7bn from their corporate banking division. The corporate banking division was a Bank of Scotland not a Halifax speciality.

It is therefore clear that the whole HBOS group - not just the Halifax mortgage side is in a shocking state.

The merger will go ahead - the important thing is to make sure that the Lloyds Banking Group makes it as painless as possible, with as few job losses as possible.

41

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

01/12/2008 13:48:16
#39 You assume that there is a distinct BOS part - Halifax and HBOS have been merged for the last 6 years - I am not sure how easy it would be to demerge the BOS element.

If truth be told, the Bank of Scotland name is (sadly) little more than a marketing tool for HBOS.
42

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

01/12/2008 13:53:01
#33 Morris - I see you still support the conspiracy theory implying that Brown has somehow manufactured all of this to save the Union.

He has not.

What he is doing is using the events in this crisis for his own political ends to save the Labour Party.

The Union is incidental.
43

Bele's bane,

Scotland 01/12/2008 14:36:03
It is nothing less than an English plot against the Scottish people!

Freedom for Scotland!
44

Arfur,

01/12/2008 14:52:42
#46 The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON) - they are not that merged. It would not take much to de-merge them.

#44 English flag - no you havn't you sad pathetic loser, Mount Kimba. You need to have HBOS shares before you can do that.
45

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 01/12/2008 15:21:08
Come on people, stop being so negative. Once The Supreme Leader owns the bank, He can print his photo on the bank notes and little Darling and Many can be printed on lesser demoninations too.
46

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

01/12/2008 15:24:16
#50 For a second there I thought you were talking about Alex Salmond putting his phizog on banknotes . . . extra wide of course . . .

;)
47

J F M ,

01/12/2008 15:28:25
So English Flag; if a group of wealthy politicians, businessmen, bankers and such-like sat round a table and sold your country's assets to it's nearest rival would you object? Unfortunately The 1707 Act of Union was basically that, the average "Scot on the Street" had no say. This is why we want more say as regards the merger with Lloyds/TSB.
48

Annabel Lecter,

01/12/2008 15:48:44
t
49

kinneucher,

Amsterdam 01/12/2008 15:49:39
The takeover of the Trustee Savings Bank was THEFT, pure and simple.
50

the.ally ,

max. 01/12/2008 16:09:17
Somebody mentioned 'dirty-dealings' between Lloyds TSB and HBoS esecutives and New labour politicians; here's more for you.

Sunday Times November 2nd 2008, "Both banks are expected to announce further writedowns in the response to the continuing deterioration in the economy and further falls in house pricesAnalysts estimate that HBoS could announce up to 5 billion pounds in further charges."

Now, these are charges that would be set against all HBoS customer accounts. This means HBoS executive incompetence leads to customers accounting for it by plugging the wasted money hole with 5 billion more of their hard earned cash in 'charges'. Aye, no wonder Shame O'rearend, Hornby, Stevenson, Crosbie et al are so in love with Lloyds, they are paid members of staff of the Lloyds consultation board for the takeover.

This nonsense has gone past riciculousness; these evil parasites that steal our heard-earned cash so they can pocket it for themselves vever lose out do they; just like being a politician at the trough!

If that's not enough for CAT to stop this nonsense, here's more 'dirty-dealings' of said cabal of evil-doers; Sunday Times 9th November 2008, "Lloyds TSB's secret 10 billion pounds loan to HBoS"

The HBoS executive thought they guaranteed their explosive bonuses, of over a million pounds tax exempt each, by agreeing to buy Lloyds bad debt so that that would help force the takover through. In other words, HBoS executives like lord Stevenson, Hornby, Daniels, etc all knew they were selling the HBoS company down the river by buying 'bad-debt' from Lloyds so that Lloyds would attempt to look like a white knight saving HBoS comapny holding all their, (Lloyds), bad-debt.

Disgraceful isn't it!
We the HBoS customersfinance these parasites to the exhorbitant sums they think they desrve by costing us more in 'charges' to off-set the bad-debt 'they', the HBoS executives buy. The hypocracy is astounding. Thes eHBoS executives should be charged and convicted
51

the.ally ,

max. 01/12/2008 16:14:04
continued;

Disgraceful isn't it!
We the HBoS customers finance these parasites to the exhorbitant sums they think they deserve by costing us more in 'charges' to off-set the bad-debt 'they', the HBoS executives buy. The hypocracy is astounding. These HBoS executives should be charged and convicted with insider-dealing; if New Labour won't punish them, then it's up to us as customers and society's watchdog; they all have families, hopefully in Scotland!
allymax.
52

FerryPort,

01/12/2008 17:50:51
I've voted against it

http://www.mergeractiongroup.org.uk/
53

Tris,

01/12/2008 19:41:26
~25.

Naw, it was Labour
54

PointOf View,

Scotland, Bank and All. 01/12/2008 23:53:00
15, 16, 17, 19 BUTTRESS, Your ravings make it quite clear your either a Troll or an individual who has an other personal agenda. 31 ANANURHING provided you with a well balanced argument, yet you continue to Rant. Troll i believe.

22, 25, 32, LOTHIAN UNIONIST,It appears most people but you can clearely see this merger is a pre-arranged setup. 30 LINDA and 33 MORRIS have provided well balanced views backed up by well documented facts, yet you continue to ramble on.

"As an employee and shareholder it appears that the Lloyds deal is the only one that might stave of the worst of the redundancies, either way people will be disappointed"

You state that you are an employee and shareholder, Hmmm, of Loyds perhaps. I believe the real clue is in your name "LOTHIAN UNIONIST" = TROLL!

55

Buttress,

02/12/2008 23:38:29
Ah - Point of View. Uninformed idiot I believe. Good. That's that cleared up then.

Yes certainly a 'personal' agenda


www.eh8.org.uk


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