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Published Date: 29 August 2008
BANKS should treat Scottish customers more favourably than their English counterparts because the housing market in Scotland is more resilient, the SNP housing minister has said.
Stewart Maxwell said he would "encourage" any moves by mortgage lenders to take into account the fact Scotland's housing market has not been hit as hard by the credit crunch as England.

This could mean a relaxation of the strict loan criteria f
or buyers in Scotland.

Improved products for the Scottish market could include mortgages with a higher loan-to-value ratio than is currently on offer, or a larger loan based on a higher salary multiple.

But leading industry body, the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML), rejected the idea, saying that a lack of liquidity in the banking sector was the main reason that mortgage criteria have been tightened up.

And opposition politicians claimed the concept of separate products for Scotland was "a nonsense" and accused Mr Maxwell of touting the idea for political ends. Mr Maxwell and enterprise minister Jim Mather yesterday met with more than 100 of the property sector's key players – including developers, industry bodies and mortgage lenders – to formulate an action plan to tackle problems caused by the credit crunch.

The idea was one of a range of possible solutions touted by Mr Maxwell at yesterday's discussion forum in Edinburgh to bring liquidity back into the housing market.

He added that he would continue to lobby the UK government to scrap stamp duty for properties sold at under £250,000 and also work to increase consumer confidence in the Scottish market.

He said: "People hear stories about what is happening south of the Border and don't necessarily realise that things are not as bad here. We need to make sure they are aware of that as consumer confidence is very important to keep the market afloat."

The latest quarterly figures from Nationwide, covering the six months to the end of June, last month revealed that Scotland's average house price was still rising – at an annual rate of 0.6 per cent – while the UK figure had fallen by 4 per cent.

However, the idea that the Scottish housing market is insulated from the worst of the downturn is not universally accepted.

Michael Luck, the managing director of Scotland's largest estate agents, Slater Hogg & Howison, said recently: "Scotland has followed exactly the same trend as England. It is no better up here than anywhere else."

A spokeswoman for CML told The Scotsman that the housing downturn was not the only reason for the tight mortgage market UK-wide.

She said: "There are many reasons why lenders chose to tighten up their mortgage criteria and the fall in house prices is just one of them. There is a shortage of funding in the lending markets, which constrains lending across the UK. We just don't think this idea would work."

Mr Maxwell said: "The housing market in Scotland is still buoyant. Prices are still rising, as opposed to the rest of the UK, where they are falling.

"I would encourage banks to offer separate products for Scotland, relaxing lending criteria to take into account the fact that we have not got the same level of problem here as, for example, in the south-east of England."

David McLetchie, the Tories' chief whip, said: "This is a nonsense. This is clearly the SNP saying, 'It's Scotland, therefore there must be a different approach'. The idea that house prices are still rising here is questionable. I would say the market is fairly flat. The concept that we can immunise Scotland from the credit crunch is a nonsense.

"It is a commercial decision for the banks to make what products they offer and how they decide to offer them."

However, Michael Levack, chief executive of the Scottish Building Federation, backed Mr Maxwell's call.

He said: "The housing market in Scotland is not markedly different to that in the rest of the UK. But the fact we have a number of successful banks does suggest they should perhaps look at tailoring products specifically to the Scottish market.

"We are often used as guinea pigs for new ideas – this should maybe be a situation where we could be the guinea pig for doing something different to give our housing market a boost."

A spokesman for Lloyds TSB Scotland said it already offered separate products for Scottish housebuyers.

Scottish house prices 'to fall' – but not by as much as down south

ANALYSTS have warned homeowners in Scotland to brace themselves for further price drops in the housing market.

Nationwide Building Society said yesterday that UK house prices fell 1.9 per cent in August, to record their biggest annual drop since monthly records began in 1991.

The tenth consecutive monthly decline, which was bigger than most analysts were expecting, pushed the average price of a property to £164,654, the lowest since May 2006, wiping nearly £5,000 off the value of the average British home.

Fionnuala Earley, Nationwide's chief economist, predicted the Scottish housing market would see a marked softening on the back of the UK-wide downturn, which has seen prices plummet by 10.5 per cent.

"I don't think we can ever say anywhere in the UK is completely immune and Scotland is already seeing some price falls, such as the 1.8 per cent quarterly drop on last June," she said.

"We would expect Scotland to be seeing further house-price drops, perhaps not as much as other places in the UK, because we know affordability is much more resilient than elsewhere. But we have seen transactions drop to their lowest levels."

She added: "There's lots of uncertainty because of the weak economy, but there's no doubt prices are going to fall across the rest of the UK for the rest of the year."

The latest Lloyds TSB Scotland house-price monitor showed the number of homes being bought and sold dropped by 27 per cent in the three months to 31 July. It also said that, across Scotland, the average price of flats was down 1.7 per cent to £134,050, with detached homes down 1.2 per cent to £260,684.

According to the Registers of Scotland Executive Agency, house prices have dipped over the past quarter in Stirling, the Borders, South Ayrshire, Inverclyde, Dundee and Shetland, while over the past year, prices have fallen in South Ayrshire, Argyll and Bute, Glasgow, Clackmannanshire and Orkney.





The full article contains 1085 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 29/08/2008 00:07:13
Mis-leading headline. Deliberately stoking up racism.

It should refer to "people living in Scotland" rather then "Scots".

Very naughty!
2

subrosa,

29/08/2008 00:11:24
# 1

No, it should read 'Give purchasers of houses in Scotland ...'

Typical Scotsman reporting. It'll get worse though, but we all know their position is just pathetic.
3

,

29/08/2008 00:31:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Senga Jean,

29/08/2008 00:34:04
The Scotsman stokes racism in the hope it will discredit the SNP. This will not happen because the Independence cause is for all of the peoples of Scotland.
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 00:42:41

*Edititorial Error Correction*

Give Polish families better mortgage deals than the Scottish Family, says SNP.

Afterall they Work for it!

No racism implied, but 'hey' they will make a better Scotland!
6

Highland Property Bubble,

Inverness 29/08/2008 00:54:45
What an utterly ridiculous proposal from the SNP.
Why is the Scottish market considered to be insulated from the rapidly exploding property crash currently raging across the UK? The figures which suggest that Scotland is immune to the current collapse in property prices are merely being distorted by the fact that far fewer sales have been completed in Scotland over the last few months, particularly at the lower end of the market, as vendor's naively hold out with last year's asking prices.
One need only look to the current dire situation in Inverness, which currently has around four hundred properties advertised through the local Solicitors' Property Centre as opposed to the usual one hundred or so.
Do vendors honestly expect these homes to shift at current asking prices?
7

Jock MacSprog,

29/08/2008 01:01:03
whats really worrying about this statement is the staggering lack of understanding of economics and finance shown by a political party with supposed national aspirations. And once again who will qualify as a "Scot", what about English, Irish, American Japanese buying property in Scotland ? What about Scots in England ? As usual more questions than answers from the Gnats. I am begining to question their sanity and suitability for office.
8

Senga Jean,

29/08/2008 01:11:13
#7 turn your wrath on the journo who invented the story. The original thought makes perfect sense before the journo scrambled it!
9

Fairfax,

29/08/2008 01:21:29
Article: "People hear stories about what is happening south of the Border and don't necessarily realise that things are not as bad here."

It all depends on the location in England or Scotland, but there is no need to exhort lenders: if local economic conditions imply it's a good idea, then lenders will behave accordingly. The distinction between Scotland and England is particularly silly: more robust markets in England and Scotland have more in common with one another than they share with more fragile markets in both nations.
10

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 02:18:06
8/10 cats? 8/10 posters don't agree with you! you sound like a counciler who has lost their gravy train last may?
11

donald anderson it's me,

weegieland 29/08/2008 02:38:30
There is a bigger housing need in Scotland and tougher measures are needed here. The house buying tradition has been longer established in England than here. That is why English Mortgage Companies were able to turn Scottish banks into chipboard offices.
12

Richardinho,

29/08/2008 02:56:46
No don't give people in Scotland better mortgage deals-the unionists wont like it!
13

Richardinho,

29/08/2008 03:58:58
It's ultimately up to lenders to decide what deals they offer their customers. However it does no harm for politicians to make suggestions like this.
It will encourage banks and building societies, who may have been considering the idea but were put off because of political considerations, to feel more comfortable about putting it into practice.
14

Finnz,

29/08/2008 06:54:39
An eminently sensible proposal. It is a fact that the housing market in Scotland is indeed more resilient than that down south. Another reason to rid ourselves of this millstone round our necks thats being propped up by our revenue.
15

Louis Catorze,

29/08/2008 07:21:44
#14.."Another reason to rid ourselves of this millstone round our necks thats being propped up by our revenue"

I think they'd get on fine without our propping....
16

SouthernSkye,

29/08/2008 07:25:08
The housin market as a whole within the UK needs to be left alone. Interference was the cause of this trouble we have now. False inflation of prices, loans (mortgages) made far in excess of that which should reasonably have been allowed.
Take a step back politicians, let the dust settle and then we will have a realistic market.
17

All Politicians are the same,

Heathrow terminal 5 29/08/2008 07:32:10
The SNP once gain demonstrate that apart from the boss they are a bunch of incompetent idiots who will never be able to operate on a world stage.
18

observer9,

Glasgow 29/08/2008 08:04:07
I am no nationalist, but I think the SNP are doing a good job. That said Stewart Maxwell has revealed a level of stupidity that needs to be controlled.

You are an administrator not an economist or a visionary.

You may be in power but get a grip on your abilities or you will devalue the good that is being done.
19

Boy Wonder,

29/08/2008 08:29:52
Jane Bradley has selective hearing and/or reading! Cos that's not quite what the minister said.

I am fed up with reporters twisting things to suit their agendas. Where have the twin pillars of honesty and integrity that used to uphold newspapers gone???
20

Gdgy,

dundy 29/08/2008 08:30:48
What a crock!

This is nothing to do with racism!!!! That's just typical SNPite rubbishing of the message rather than dealing with the issue....
The SNP are asking the banks to give better deals to one set of people rather than look at individual circumstances.
Anybody can speak to the banks and force them to give them a better deal...there has never been a netter time to strike a deal
21

thinking,

Scotland 29/08/2008 08:30:58
"The housing market in Scotland is still buoyant. Prices are still rising,'
So, if that trend is encouraged, who will be left to afford a house?
22

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 29/08/2008 08:32:39
Salmond is living in fantasy land if he thinks the Scottish housing market is safe. The worst is yet to come, all round. The real question we should be asking is why are banks, who have been bailed out to the tune of billions of taxpayers funds in every country in the world still allowed to hand out dividends to their shareholders who ultimately are responsible for allowing their banks to be run like loan sharks? Bank dividends should be banned by law until they have paid back every penny they lost by using our hard earned cash like monopoly money. Any banks running bonus schemes that encourage such stupid lending practices in future, and they all still have these schemes in place, should be put on notice by the regulator that they will have to pay huge insurances in from now and into the future to compensate for the inevitable losses. Why is commonsense so difficult a concept for Salmond and his banking chums to comprehend? lllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllll
23

legless,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 08:43:40
The credibility of the Scotsman is going downhill fast, sensationalist headlines and inaccurate reporting may sell papers but has also devalued what little integrity you had.
24

Scotland to prosper...,

29/08/2008 09:03:55
#20 sm753

Good point made and one which I think people are quick to forget. The Scottish housing market is structured differently than down south therefore will inevitably re-act differently to economic down turn. In this instance the Scottish housing market has remained relatively solid but it is essential the mortgage lenders seize on this opportunity and treat the Scottish market differently in order for it to continue growing rather than being shackled by conditions down south
25

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 29/08/2008 09:11:12
The remarks the fish supper party are typical selfish nationalism . Pit Scoatlin first .
26

MoClana,

29/08/2008 09:15:06
Jane Bradley is another mixing Unionist then i take it?

Give us a break!
27

Linda,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 09:15:50
Didn't see any reference in Herald or Scotsman to-day that Hendersons became the third large UK company this year to move to Ireland to benefit from lower Corporation tax .

Yet we are told by Unionists that Ireland was now a basket case and not as good as UK at riding out recession.
28

MoClana,

29/08/2008 09:18:14
#28 Voice of reason, how ironic you chose such a name and then comment that self determination is unreasonable!

Another confused Unionist, who's blind hatred towards Independence and self determination short circuits their brain cells!
29

Alan B,

29/08/2008 09:21:08
#sm753

You raise a good issue.

I would also say that mortgages do not suit the Scottish system due to the long time it take to get mortgage approval.

In England, people can pull out if mortgage agreement does not come through, while in Scotland you are pressurised to sign the missives but are struggling to get the mortgage lender, that gives the initial meanless verbal approval, to actually give you proper written approval within a reasonable time.

Government regulations should be brought in so that mortgage companies have to give approval or rejection within 2 weeks.

Probably a better way would be, if you get mortgage approval based on your income before you even put an offer in for a house subject to a survey valuation.

From personal experience there is also a lack of flexibility in the system. While we here in the press of irresponsible lending, in practise they are actually quite risk averse meaning that the type of mortgage product you want is not widely available.

It would also help if the mortgage companies actually knew the products that they sell.
30

Dissector,

Stirling 29/08/2008 09:21:17
These comments disclose the real level of incompetence and determination for head-line grabbing spin. Now the SNP and Slippery Fish want to run the banks and that underlines their enthusiasm for the failed (communist) model - central economic management. The spectre of the Darien Scheme disaster will reappear as SNP economic dogma ruins Scotland again - just what we all need.
31

Scotland to prosper...,

29/08/2008 09:29:22
#33

Thats it Dissector, good to see your breaking the typical stereotype of a Scot.

Calvinism is alive and well
32

Senga Jean,

29/08/2008 09:35:06
#33 You are very fishy. Are you an Onionist? You really hate Scotland and wish to keep it down. The Darien sceme like Dutch tulip mania is a good lesson from history. I do not insult the modern Dutch so why do insult the modern Scot? Begone you vile rogue!
33

ccc,

29/08/2008 09:35:44
"The housing market in Scotland is still buoyant"

Oh my goodness...

This is from the Housing Minister for Scotland !! This is worrying. Really worrying. All he has to do to find out the truth is call up ANY estate Agent or Solicitor and ask them. Or anyone currently trying to sell a house for that matter.

The staggering lack of knowledge from someone in this position of power is truly frightening.
34

ccc,

29/08/2008 09:42:09
I have just realised the most staggeringly stupid and glaring mistake in this whole joke of an idea.

If the market up here is 'buoyant' as the Minister thinks - then surely the mortgage offers that are available now are working just fine. So why the need to change them....

35

Nailhead401,

edinburg 29/08/2008 09:55:11
their are a lot of people in Scotland currently trying to sell their propoerty at last years prices.
they are suffering from brickamortis, rigid in their belief that the house is still worth the asking price.
it doesn't help that certain american based estate agaents are keeping the prices artifically high, you know who you are!
Scotland is and always will be slightly behind England in the property prices stakes, if England suffers a 25%+ drop in prices then Scotland will come ou worse.
belive me i know having just sold a house in England.
hold on tight it's coming!
36

Alan B,

29/08/2008 10:14:43
#danielrober

I do not know how you can draw that conclusion based on what the article actually says.

"The idea was one of a range of possible solutions touted by Mr Maxwell at yesterday's discussion forum in Edinburgh to bring liquidity back into the housing market."

"Michael Levack, chief executive of the Scottish Building Federation, backed Mr Maxwell's call.

He said: "The housing market in Scotland is not markedly different to that in the rest of the UK. But the fact we have a number of successful banks does suggest they should perhaps look at tailoring products specifically to the Scottish market."

What seriously is wrong with "Mr Maxwell and enterprise minister Jim Mather yesterday met with more than 100 of the property sector's key players" and encouraging and suggesting ways forward to deal with the crisis we find ourself in?
37

Conway,

29/08/2008 10:17:23
I hope the Scotsman has a good legal team ? if the headline read "give better morgages to whites "or blacks or thoughs with one leg the Scotsman would be in court but it seems that this paper thinks that it is above the law. But I suppose with the Daily Record loosing sales then some other paper will need to replace it as Scotlands tabloid.
38

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 10:20:43
I am a marxist and do not beleive anyone should own there home it should be provided free from the state,
also all privately owned houses should be collected by the state and given to others without a home, we also do not believe in multiple parties in Government there should only be one political party the others should be banned by state law
39

Alan B,

29/08/2008 10:21:36
#ccc

I think you are not understanding the problems and issues of the housing market.

Prices are holding up in scotland ie there has no been the drop as in some parts of england. There is a question over whether this is just a lag in the market. Or because scottish prices do not tend to get as high as english ones ie do not overshoot as much.

However from my understanding while prices are holding up, the volumes are down.

There are 2 things to understand about this.
1)alot is to do with confidence. People are not ging to buy if they thing prices will drop. So it makes sense to try to talk confidently about the market.
2)the underlying problem is the liquidity in the banking sector ie the credit crunch. It is the lack of availability of credit.

If the banks say well house price will fall by 20%. The when giving a mortgage they will give 20% less that the current valuation. However if scottish prices are holding then people will not be able to get the mortgage to purchase.

Remember this was about "Mr Maxwell and enterprise minister Jim Mather yesterday met with more than 100 of the property sector's key players". Nothing wrong with that in the current climate.
40

Alan B,

29/08/2008 10:23:08
#daveserviceman

"there should only be one political party the others should be banned by state law"

only way brown will get re-elected.
41

ccc,

29/08/2008 10:35:55
#44.

I think I should know. I have been studying in detail what is going on for about 2 years now. Well before any of the general public knew what was in store.

What should have happened was this sort of meeting 3 or 4 years ago as it was clear the situation was getting out of control. Horse, door bolted springs to mind.

The crisis in the housing market WAS the last 5 years. Today is just the outcome of that. They need to let it be. The cause of this is house prices are too high. The 'credit crunch' is just the straw that broke the camels back.

As for prices in Scotland holding up that is nonsense. We have been through this before. The AVERAGE house price is holding up, but at the same time hosue prices are falling.

Top of the market is skewing the figures. Even estate agents are admitting this.

In reality house prices in Scotland are down about 10-15% on last year IMO.

This is a good thing and long overdue.

The areas that are most overpriced will be most hit.
The areas that are least overprices will be least hit.

Very simple really.

If you live in a flat in Edinburgh you will be hit hard.

If you live in a flat in Glenrothees the effect will be less marked.

Not rocket science.
42

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 10:43:22
#43 That also wouldn;t be Marxism, if you had to give it a title it would be Leninism. Marx didn't think there needed to be a revolutionary party.
43

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 10:55:47
Just a thought. We all know that there have been times when the housing market in London and the South-East of England has been more buoyant then in other parts of the UK. What would have been the reaction if financial institutions had then offered people there better deals than elsewhere? Let me speculate - outrage and indignation.
44

Ffion,

different planet 29/08/2008 11:06:58
I think Mr Maxwell has missed the point - banks don't nor have they ever lent for the convenience of customers-they lend to make money out of customers not to be nice to them. People do get differential, preferential deals based on their credit rating & social circumstances: eg banks unlikely to give 25 year mortgage to 40 year old male in certain parts of glasgow.
45

ccc,

29/08/2008 11:11:27
#48.

Very good point. Never thought of it that way.

As you say if this had occured I know who would have been the first to moan about it.

Re-arrange the following letters..

NPS
46

James.com,

29/08/2008 11:13:09
When a BoE Economist forcasts house prices to fall by 30%; it would be silly to borrow more anyway.
47

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 11:13:28
50 Ffion
You are correct. Also Stewart Maxwell should study how the present problems came about. Financial institutions gave loans on favourable terms to many in the US on the assumption that the economy and housing market were buoyant. They did not take into account a possible downturn and when the downturn did arrive they were in severe difficulties. Stewart Maxwell seems to be urging them to make the same mistake again.
48

kimba,

29/08/2008 11:18:30
How on earth is this racist,bigoted party allowed to get away with this!
49

kimba,

29/08/2008 11:20:12
43. You are living in the wrong country pal,try china or cuba!
50

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 11:28:24
51 ccc
Absolutely. One does not need a crystal ball the spot what the party line would have been. Something along the lines of "Scottish mortgage payers are subsidising favourable deals for London housebuyers"
51

Ffion,

another planet 29/08/2008 11:28:53
Yep, 53, one way or another we are all being governed by bankers
52

westview,

We need a Scottish National News not BBC bias. 29/08/2008 11:47:11
Time after time on the main "National News" broadcast from London ,you get woe and disaster ,economic news which is not actually true in Scotland but may well be true in England. If the editors of the news were not so lazy they could at least place a wee flag or logo on the screen, as they do at sporting events, to differenciate local London concerns and statistics and trends, from those of the other parts of the kingdom. With them saying that house prices are falling ,when they are not in Scotland, they are devalueing our property here. London control is costing you money!
53

DaveK,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 11:48:16
Give it time people! Already a substantial number of conveyancing lawyers have been given their cards or have a significantly reduced number of clients. Ask the majority of estate agents (still in work) and they are extremely worried about the current situation and the builders are laying people off left right and centre. RBS, HBOS needing shareholders to bail them out and then corporal Jones shouting “don’t panic” we’re Scottish so its ok here give us a good deal. What an abbreviated Richard.
54

cataibh,

Over the Struie 29/08/2008 12:04:41
55# What did the Minister actually say. You don't know do you. Remember that hootsman journalists don't let truth stand in the way of a anti-Scottish article.
55

cataibh,

Over the Struie 29/08/2008 12:04:41
55# What did the Minister actually say. You don't know do you. Remember that hootsman journalists don't let truth stand in the way of a anti-Scottish article.
56

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 12:32:48
63 Hawkeye
You say that "you people" are "on your way out"
What does this mean? Are you going to exterminate them or merely deport them?
57

Calum Crubag,

29/08/2008 12:39:29
Seems fair. After all, our oil money keeps England afloat. And yeah, give the hardworking Poles a chance too.
58

Calum Crubag,

29/08/2008 12:40:34
#65 - not too clever, eh? In a democracy, what do you REALLY think 'on your way out' means?
59

kimba,

29/08/2008 12:41:09
Yet again we have the nats doing their damndest to support their gomper of a minister,like a petulant child if they don't get their own way,a tantrum of mega proportions will soon follow.
60

kimba,

29/08/2008 12:53:34
As i have stated many times Scotland is neither capable nor mature enough for independence,and when it is,Salmond will not be the one to take you there,the nats at present are to "gung-ho" they need to calm down and think before they speak,there is nothing wrong being Scottish AND British at present.
In about 20 years time if you calm down and not use England and her people as your whipping stone,you may stand a better chance.
61

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 12:59:13
67 Calum Crubag
You were not only talking about a government or an establishment you were talking about "people" "on their way out" replying to somebody with whom you disagree.
As you said "you people AND your unworkable union" I can understand how you may assert that the union may be (in your view) on its way out but you have clearly stated that people with whom you disagree are also "on their way out". That is what you have said. So please clarify to us what this means.
62

Arfur,

29/08/2008 13:01:51
Makes sence.

(1) Different market
(2) Different laws, rules and regulations
(3) If a bank can accept and decline customers for personal loans based on geographical data (which they do (if you work in a bank check your acceptance scorecard)) then why not treat mortgages like that?
63

,

29/08/2008 13:03:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

Andrah,

Embrugh 29/08/2008 13:05:19
43# Good attempt at a wind-up Dave --- looks like you have had a wee bit of success too? -- Ho Ho Ho! No rational person could ever hold such views in this day and age.
65

Arfur,

29/08/2008 13:05:50
#68 Mahatma Scarf??????? - I am guessing that you take no notice what so ever of the polls, the by ellections..pretty much everything which is shifting from Labour to SNP.
66

Micropacer,

29/08/2008 13:12:46
The Tories start this with the right to buy.

Labour put everything out of control buy letting prices rise massivley out of control due to overlending but it helped Gordons economoic figures.

Now the SNP think is should continue!

To top it off the Scotsman are reporting things from a parrallel universe! They should be ashamed over this piece - its trying to stoke racism.

All in all it would be amusing if not so sad.
67

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 13:23:36
76 Hawkeye
I think that you illustrate the problem perfectly. I merely asked a question for clarification of a point made and you have then somehow imagined arguments that I did not make and called them "weak-kneed and warbled" and finished up by telling me that I am on my "way out"

So let me get this right. According to you anybody who has the temerity to ask for clarification of a point made is subjected to false attribution of comments, insults and is informed that he/she is on his/her "way out". How edifying.
68

Scunner,

Bonnie Scotland 29/08/2008 13:46:57
If they do this then the next thing will be better terms for people living in wealthy areas such as Aberdeen. This would lead to the west coast/central belt losing out so this has nae chance of going ahead.
69

Liz,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 13:58:28
#81
Some of us find you ubernats boring too.

The constant suggestion that anyone who is not a fully paid up and Braveheart watching SNP member is less "Scottish" than his fellow citizens is pathetic.

Many of the people who post on this board are more racist towards their fellow Scots than they ever get chance to be to the English....

70

kimba,

29/08/2008 14:04:57
82. Do you have a problem with the English,we seem to be the whipping stone of the nats,can't figger out why?
71

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

29/08/2008 14:10:57
This is pretty much a plea from the SNP to kep the credit bubble going longer in Scotland.

End result: more debt and more people suffer when the downturn hits here.

Do the SNP have a special place where they recruit these idiots or do they supply extensive training?
72

The Tin Man,

29/08/2008 14:13:08
At the end of the day, Scottish independence is a purely ethnic issue. Any other argument is superflous - we are talking about forever, here.

If Scots feel sufficiently homogenous, and sufficiently different from the rest of the UK, that would have to be the principle reason for independence.

I can't think of any country that has split-up for any other reason.
73

Publius,

Girvan 29/08/2008 14:22:54
However, Michael Levack, chief executive of the Scottish Building Federation, backed Mr Maxwell's call.
He said: "The housing market in Scotland is not markedly different to that in the rest of the UK. But the fact we have a number of successful banks does suggest they should perhaps look at tailoring products specifically to the Scottish market."


...a number of successful banks? ... HBOS? ... RBS?

Where's he been while they went cap in hand to their shareholders? What a silly man!



74

Liz,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 14:23:30
#82
Some of the nats around here are bitter and twisted enough against their fellow Scots to have time to bother about the English (this was demonstrated earlier this week with some shameful comments about Chris Hoy). Personally being of English and Scottish heritage I have little choice in the matter - though with an English accent some on this board would no doubt try to deport me.
75

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:24:11
Completely reasonable.

Scotland may or may not suffer the problems England is currently under. Scotland shoudl therefore become more flexible untill the situation gets better or worse.
76

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:27:34
#87

You speak as if the Nats are all bad.

What about those who feel that the SNP are the evil force that is fuelling hatred towards everything?

Are Nationalists not allowed to follow their beleif that Scotland should be Independent?

It was not long ago that the SNP were made out to be almost as bad as the BNP...
77

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 14:27:35
81 Hawkeye
If I bore you so much why did you launch into such a tirade.
May I request that if you do respond to points I made that you respond to the actual points rather than inventing or imagining some because they may have been made by others who you presumably categorise together with me as "you people"
I made it clear that I thought you meant "you people" as those who disagreed with you. How can you extrapolate this to me making a "hackneyed accusation of racism"
78

Publius,

Girvan 29/08/2008 14:34:24
Stewart Maxwell said he would "encourage" any moves by mortgage lenders to take into account the fact Scotland's housing market has not been hit as hard by the credit crunch as England.

Maxwell is talking though his hat. He has no power to encourage mortgage lenders to do anything. And, even if he had, he could not insulate the Scottish housing market from the rest of the UK - or the USA and Western Europe.
79

The Tin Man,

29/08/2008 14:44:29
#91

Yes, it is akin to Brown asking Opec to cut the price of oil.
80

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 29/08/2008 14:59:03
I doubt if it will have been lost on the silent majority who read these posts that this article and the response to it by unionists rangeing from MSP's to the usual posters, really serves to show them up for what they are, for it is so shot through with coulds and maybe's as to make it entirely unreliable as a peice of news, it is however entirely in keeping with what we have come to expect from the Scotsman.

That a journalist thought to submit this and even more so, that this paper decided to put it out, says all there is to say about how little some unionists believe in truth and accuracy.

Given the way Scotland has been run for years, we shouldn't really be surprised.

If anyone still needs a further indicater of what I mean, then they need only consider the many unionists who post complaining about the SNP and Nat's in general and yet have neither the honesty or courage to say which party it is that they actually support.

81

Ugly George,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 15:02:41
93 Hawkeye
There you go again - inventing points I did not make. Not once did I mention the SNP - I was only referring to you and your comments

You were the one who said "you people are on your way out" and then you accuse me of "fascistic tendencies" and what have I said that could be interpreted in any way as "denying the people of Scotland the right to govern themsveles" - absolutely nothing.

May I request, once more, that you stop inventing arguments and attributing them to me and may I ask you one question that is at the heart of the point I was trying to make? Do you think it is appropriate to reply to someone who disagrees with you by categorising him/her as "you people are on your way out"?
82

The Tin Man,

29/08/2008 15:20:45
Hawkeye, you are coming across as a polarised nut-case like Highland Mighty.

Give it a rest.
83

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 15:23:46
#81

"I no longer bother posting here because unionism is already finished and there is no need for me or other independistas to post here."

But unless my eyes deceive me you are posting here are you not? And you and other nationalists like you post on these boards all the time.

Very strange comment....
84

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 15:33:00
#102

"there is no need for me or other independistas to post here."

Do you and other nationalists only post on these boards for the sheer pleasure of doing so then? since there is apparently 'no need' for you to do so?

By "I no longer bother posting here" do you actually mean "I post here quite regularly"??
85

The Tin Man,

29/08/2008 15:48:39
#102 Hawkeye

When you talk of independence there is no 'us' and 'them', we are all 'us'. Forever.

Your language smacks of 'divide and rule'. Have a think about it.
86

Ugly George,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 15:56:24
99 Hawkeye
Not only are "you people on your way out but now "your opinions cease to matter". And a group "are wrong about everything"

My initial question and my second( admittedly facetious) question were asked because you appeared to show a lack of tolernce and respect to those who disagree with you. I think we can all see now how much or how little of these qualities you have.
87

kimba,

29/08/2008 17:42:36
96. How about the whinging, lying, backward thinking, derogatory, self-hating, anti-English banalities of the nats!
88

kimba,

29/08/2008 17:42:51
96. How about the whinging, lying, backward thinking, derogatory, self-hating, anti-English banalities of the nats!
89

Publius,

Girvan 29/08/2008 17:46:55
#94 Hawkeye

I'd prefer Maxwell (and all politicians) to tell the truth,namely that there is little he can do about the housing market and almost nothing he can do about influencing the lending decisions of banks and building societies.
A market is a market, not a branch of government.
90

Bob Grigson,

Aberdeen 29/08/2008 18:03:51
Perhaps the best approach is to heave a sigh of relief that the housing crash in Scotland is not as severe as the one in England. Attempting to stoke up house price inflation by encouraging a continuation of the same conditions as south of the border befroe the crash isn't exactly clever.
What we need for proper prosperity is a less volatile housing market and better government intervention to avoid the costs of homelessness by taking appropriate equity stakes in households that are in difficulties.
91

Eric D,

Albannach, Alba 29/08/2008 18:19:17
#1 is right, in Salmond's new civic Scotland, SCOTS is a dirty word. It implies lineage naughty , naughty, we can't go upsetting the MIGRANTS.

The precept is faulty. There is no proof that the "people of Scotlands " housing market is more resilient. Read MacWhirters article on the Sunday Herald, both SNP and Banks are the banks are talking up the housing market as it suits them. Data from land registry indicates average property fell 5.5% year on year last month.
92

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 29/08/2008 19:29:38
IS THIS THE DAILY STAR OR THE SCOTSMAN?

This headline really is that controversial. Johnston press sensational bias as usual.

The only comment I would like to make is that the SNP are again fighting for a better deal for ALL those who live in Scotland. NOT JUST SCOTS.
93

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 29/08/2008 19:34:24
Serves you all effing right in the first place for panic buying and speculating.
94

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 29/08/2008 19:39:47
113, smee, you do, of course, have proof that Spock's comment is not based on fact?
95

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 29/08/2008 20:40:08
So smee is just a waffler of effluent.
96

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/09/2008 14:31:30
The figures for property values are quite patchy - some parts of the country are seeing larger falls whilst some areas - especially in parts of Scotland are still experiencing house price rises. Moreover looking at a single month is misleading - average falls have been as high as -2.5% per month dropping to -0.9% the next month.

Three monthly figures probably give a better indication od the state of affairs. Latest average monthly figures for the last 3 months are:

Scotland -0.07% per month
Yorkshire & Humberside -1.25% per month
West Midlands -1.25% per month
Wales -1.84% per month
South West -0.34% per month
Outer South East -1.08% per month
Outer Metropolitan -0.73% per month
Northern Ireland -2.27% per month
North West -0.86% per month
North -0.67% per month
Greater London -1.26%
East Midlands -1.23%
East Anglia -1.43%

As one can see Scotland seems to be weathering the storm better than other areas.

One should also remember that many property owners will have made substantial gains in their property values in the previous years. Those most at risk of negative equity will be any who got the last of the 125% mortgages. Someone buying a house in Scotland would only have seen a rise of less than 1% in the last year. Go back to 2005 and the rise is 27.88% - a cushion for potential devaluations in property prices.

For those who see their property as being a long-term investment there is hope. It is likely that house prices will rise back up due to the fall in the housing supply through a lack of new builds.

 

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