Get money right and we can stay world-beaters

BRIAN Lang has been at the helm of one of Scotland's oldest and most prestigious universities for eight years.

Born and raised in Edinburgh, he was educated at the Royal High School and studied social anthropology at Edinburgh University.

He spent time researching in Kenya and then lecturing in Denmark before he returned to Britain to join the Social Science Research Council.

Since then, he has held many senior positions, from head of the historic buildings branch of the Scottish Development Department to director of public affairs for the National Trust. Latterly, he was the chief executive of the British Library in London for nine years until he was appointed principal and vice-chancellor at St Andrews University.

The 62-year-old has been an outspoken advocate for higher education in his role at Scotland's oldest university.

St Andrews, with a 600-year history, has some 6,700 students, and Prince William recently graduated from there.

During his tenure, Dr Lang has seen St Andrews climb the university rankings in both international and domestic league tables.

Q & A: DR BRIAN LANG

Are Scotland's universities really in a funding crisis?

No, we are not in a crisis. The issue is not whether they can survive in the short term – if you ask me, we are doing very well and performing at a high level. What I'm concerned with is not the now, but three years down the road, and not whether we can pay our way and flourish this year, but whether we can be sustainable longer term. Scotland's universities are performing very well for Scotland right now, and we all want that to remain the case.

You, along with the other university principals, said the sector needed £168 million over three years to remain competitive with English universities, but received considerably less than that in the Budget. Why aren't you angry about that?

I really don't want to discuss too much on the detail and politics of university funding at the moment. Fundamentally, because there is a working party operating and I wouldn't want to step on its toes by making any remarks which would not help them. I feel we should wait for the outcome of that working group, and let's hope an option is produced that will give us that long-term sustainability.

Are there any ideas that you personally feel should be on the table during those discussions?

It would be unwise of me to discuss options at this stage. I know that the government and the higher-education sector are working hard together.

How important is it to find a financial solution for the future?

It is very important. If you think of the institutions in Scotland that do well, universities are up there. Some are world-class and give Scotland a place on the world stage. Scottish academics are respected worldwide, and important academics and researchers from around the world want to be in Scotland's universities. It is important that we can sustain healthy institutions so that remains the case.

How encouraged are you that the Joint Future Thinking Taskforce has been set up?

It's generally known the working party was set up because ministers were taken by surprise by, not just the reaction of universities, but by that of the public, to the disappointing financial settlement last year when the Budget was announced. So it was a very good sign that government showed they are willing to listen and work with the universities to find a way forward. It has to be said that, in the recent distribution of funds for universities for the next year, this university, and universities generally, have done well. We did significantly better than we expected in that funding round. So there are straws in the wind which show that government and the Scottish Funding Council for universities and colleges do understand what the issues are, and they have begun to respond. The research-intensive universities did do quite well in this funding round, and it is to be hoped – well my hope is – that pattern will be sustained.

Do universities need to capitalise more on their capacity for invention?

All universities seem to struggle with their commercialisation programmes. None of them make as much money as they would like, but I think it would be wrong for us to get hung up on commercialisation.

Fundamentally commercialisation is important, but the primary function of universities is not commercial.

We are not businesses. Our function is not to produce ideas and products that can be taken to the market – we are here to do research, to teach and produce people who can go on to found businesses and create inventions of their own.

Universities are not here fundamentally to produce ideas that can be commercially exploited.

But wouldn't it create a solution to university funding as a valuable and expandable income stream?

It would create an income stream. But at a university like St Andrews, given the type of mostly pure research that we do, it is very doubtful we could produce income at a level on which we could rely for our sustainable future.

Why doesn't business invest more in the knowledge emanating from Scotland's universities?

It is well known that the research and development activities of Scottish business are not substantial, to say the least. In the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development], we have one of the lowest spends on research and development, which means Scottish companies seem to be less set up and less inclined to take up ideas that come out of universities. Having said that, it is tempting to regard Scottish universities as Scotland's research base. If Scottish businesses aren't carrying out research and development, it is expected that universities will, but universities can't be expected to provide what businesses do not. Universities are not businesses – we can't fill the gap that businesses really ought to be filling.

Why doesn't Scottish business see the value in investing in education?

The Scottish economy has responded in a disappointing way, for instance, to the oil boom. How many Scottish companies have become international on the basis of Scotland's oil and gas industries? Mostly, they are overseas industries. What Scottish-born, Scottish-developed industries, Scottish oil industries, have made it big as a result of oil and gas? Not many.

Scotland has a long history of innovation, but hasn't transferred that into wealth for the nation. Why is that?

We have a long history of innovation and entrepreneurship, which did wonders in Hong Kong, the Far East and Canada. Scottish entrepreneurs tend to have exported themselves, historically, I don't know why. However, Scottish banking has been showing the way. Our most respected Scottish companies are in banking internationally, which is something we should be very proud of. Well done, Royal Bank of Scotland, for staying in Scotland.

How important is overseas investment to universities?

We are, financially, heavily dependent on teaching students at undergraduate and postgraduate level from abroad. Fifteen per cent of the student body of St Andrews is from the USA and 7 per cent is from China. The student body overall is made up of 75 different nationalities, but the biggest single group of students is still Scots. Next are students from England and Wales, and then the rest of the world is about a third.

Thirty per cent of our students produce 70 per cent of our tuition-fee income. We don't want overseas students at St Andrews simply for the funds that they produce. Obviously, that is very significant, but what is much more important for us is the astonishing international diversity of the educational experience of St Andrews. Come to Fife and be internationally educated. Whether your home is Dundee or Dunedin, get an international education at St Andrews. That is one of the paradoxes of St Andrews – this wee town in the easternmost tip is arguably the most international place in Scotland for its size. So the diversity, the mixture of cultures and languages, ways of looking at the world here, ways of making decisions – it's a wonderful place to learn about the world.

Is there potential to increase the numbers of overseas students in Scotland?

Yes. However, we want to retain our distinctive Scottishness. I want St Andrews to be Scottish and international – and these aren't mutually exclusive. One of the reasons St Andrews is attractive to overseas students is our Scottishness. There is, in our case, a 600-year-old tradition of a higher education at St Andrews of a very disciplined but flexible kind. The flexible, Scottish, four-year degree means new students are given the opportunity to learn about themselves before they commit to a specific academic subject. That's one of the reasons we are attractive. And I think the physical surroundings help.

But students come here fundamentally because they get a first-class international education. We are a Scottish university, we are determined to play a role within the Scottish sector, and our fundamental responsibility is to Scots, and we will never forget that. We become too international at our peril. The Scottishness of St Andrews would be diluted and we wouldn't be able to fulfil our primary responsibility to Scots. We mustn't be forced, for commercial reasons, into skewing what we are away from our obligations. I feel that very strongly.

Do you personally support the introduction of tuition fees in Scotland?

We need to look at a range of options for funding Scotland's universities and students. South of the Border, where they have adopted fees, research shows fear of student debt is not a barrier to higher education. The number of people coming into higher education in England is as high as ever. Another option is a graduate tax of some sort, although in Scotland that would be difficult for Scottish parliamentary power reasons. But also because it would imply a hypothecation of tax, which treasuries never like. The third option, of course, and it seems to be the one that is favoured by government, is to fund universities entirely out of taxation. Now I don't mind which option is adopted – what is fundamentally important is to get more increment to Scotland's universities. More money needs to come to the sector, so that we can remain competitive.

What will be the effect if more money is not found for Scotland's universities?

Worst-case scenario is that Scotland's universities go into long decline. We become uncompetitive, lose our best staff and find it difficult to attract new staff. Then the good students follow the best staff, and our facilities go into decline. This government understands these issues and that's why they are addressing it. Government knows what is at stake here.

Do you think Scotland's universities would be better off if Scotland was independent, because the Scottish Parliament would have the ability to create a graduate tax?

Not necessarily. An independent Scotland is not a requirement for Scotland's universities to become more financially stable. What is needed is simply a sensible, cool look at what Scotland's universities contribute to Scotland and to fund them accordingly.

Do you think independence wouldn't have any effect on the sector?

I don't think necessarily, no. Bear in mind universities are already fully devolved to the Scottish Parliament. What would matter, though, would be the risk of us being cut off from the UK research councils, our risk of being distanced from the big research charities.

Higher education has always been international. The existence of international borders, as far as the exchange of ideas, students and staff is concerned, that should be irrelevant.

So you think we would be better staying as part of the Union?

Scotland's universities are already devolved wholly to Scotland.

You are retiring in December. Are you looking forward to it?

I'm looking forward to having control of my own life. I can put my hand on my heart and say my years at St Andrews have been among the happiest of my life. St Andrews has wonderful colleagues, first-rate students, a wonderful sense of community, combined with a very high quality of life. The university has been doing well, and that's reassuring. When I came, we were in the top 20 of UK universities. Then we moved to the top ten and people said, this can't go on, we can only go down. And then we got a top five – now that's terrific.

For a university of this scale, with 6,700 students and a couple of thousand staff, to be up there with Imperial College, University College London, Oxford and Cambridge, I think the team has done jolly well, and that's been really reassuring.

What are your plans?

We have a bought a house in Edinburgh. We also have a flat in London, but the base is going to be Edinburgh. I'm really looking forward to moving back to Edinburgh.

Are you looking forward to being able to indulge in hobbies?

I don't really have hobbies. I'm a really sad person; I only ever work.

When I came up here, I started to play golf, but the last time I played was last October, so there's not been much time for that. I would like to play a bit more golf, but retirement from full-time work doesn't mean I'm going to stop working. I've got a few other things I'm going to be doing. Gordon Brown has just reappointed me as deputy chair of the Scottish committee of the Heritage Lottery Fund, and that's something that I really enjoy doing.