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Flower of Scotland withers as poll fails to name that tune

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Published Date: 20 October 2008
IT MAY be sung before every national sporting event, but Flower of Scotland has been rejected as a contender for Scotland's most-loved song.
The Roy Williamson-penned anthem, widely adopted by Scottish football and rugby fans, has failed to make it on to a shortlist of the top five contenders for the title.

Rabbie Burns's Auld Lang Syne, sung across the world on Hogmanay and consider
ed to be the best known Scottish song on the list, was also not popular enough to make the final cut.

The competition was launched by the ScotsCare charity in September and the winner will be announced to mark St Andrew's Day on 30 November.

Members of the public have been voting on the charity's website over the past month and a list of 12 potential winners has been whittled down to five songs. The shortlisted songs are Runrig's version of Loch Lomond; I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles) by the Proclaimers, Deacon Blue's Dignity, Caledonia by Dougie McLean and Big Country's Fields of Fire. Big Country were not on the original list when the competition was launched but were added because of public demand.

As well as Flower of Scotland and Auld Lang Syne, other hopefuls ruled out of the contest include Maggie May by Rod Stewart and Mull of Kintyre by Paul McCartney and Wings.

Playground favourite O' Ye Cannae Shove Yer Granny Aff A Bus was also shoved off the list. Its inclusion on the list of 12 had provoked a mixed reaction from music critics.

Willie Docherty, chief executive of ScotsCare, a charity which helps needy Scots in London, said he was saddened to see Flower of Scotland did not get enough votes.

"With results not going the way of the national football and rugby teams, perhaps it's not a surprise that the public have voted for other songs," he said.

Runrig's Bruce Guthro said of Loch Lomond: "It just goes to prove that you can't keep a good song down.

"Sometimes when a song has been around for so long and has crossed over into every possible genre, it becomes so familiar that it starts to lose its meaning but I guess Loch Lomond has well and truly stood the test of time.

"It's great to see a song from the 18th century topping a poll like this. It's such a powerful, emotional, spiritual song and we're all chuffed to bits."

Veteran Scots folk musician Aly Bain said that he was not surprised Flower of Scotland did not make it into the final five: "I don't actually like the words of it. I love the tune and melody, but I don't think any song that represents us should be anti-English. It should be about Scotland."

Ian Scott, a member of the Saltire Society council, said that the list reflected the age of the voters: "The majority of those who get involved in this sort of thing are likely to come from a younger generation and so it doesn't surprise me that the final list is mainly modern renditions."

"Also familiarity of the likes of Flower of Scotland tends to perhaps dull appreciation, but I think if you were to speak to people of my generation, those in their 60s, you'd find that the older songs would have been their choice.

"But from those that made it into the last five, I would say that Caledonia is my favourite, it's an excellent song."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 October 2008 10:13 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Backofthenet,

20/10/2008 00:13:15
A pretty dismal collection of songs. Let's hope this list isn't too widely publicised outside Scotland.
2

Vandala,

20/10/2008 01:22:27

More importantly, "Sweet Home Alamba" is the third most favourite song that reminds Scottish people of home:

http://www.hometimescotland.org.uk/totaliser

...you cannae argue with that, muppets!
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

20/10/2008 01:33:42
Best news all day. Flourascawtlin is a mawkish dirge for drunks and the Daniel O'Donnell generation. England has "Jerusalem." We need something of that quality.
4

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 20/10/2008 01:45:34
"As Rome was, London is, Edinburgh will be."

As the Brahan Seer said.
5

Edwardg,

20/10/2008 01:48:35
Personally I much prefer Scotland the Brave to Flower of Scotland.
6

Finlang,

Switzerland 20/10/2008 02:25:37
From a purely musical point of view I liked the Flower of Scotland tune, which seems to work well for our rugby lot. For the fitba it has to be a return to the happy upbeat Scotland the Brave - with words made available to the masses. Not Na-na-na-na-na-na-na please ...
7

FrancesP,

20/10/2008 02:45:08
I'd like to see Aly Bain try to properly substantiate his claim that the lyrics of Flower of Scotland are in any way anti-English. The words 'England' or 'English' aren't even mentioned once - if it can be construed as being 'anti' anyone it could only be "Proud Edward", ie King Edward II. And I for one think it's probably fair enough to be anti-Edward II - or is Aly Bain a big fan of power-crazed, bloodthirsty medieval tyrants who liked nothing better than subjugating neighbouring countries?

And how can he say it's not about Scotland? The 'flower of Scotland' are the men who sacrificed everything to secure another 400 years of national independence (and even if you're a fan of the union that sacrifice is still important - Scotland would not have been able to enter the union on reasonably favourable terms had it been conquered four centuries earlier). The song is simply an exhortation to each new generation of Scots to live up to the qualities of those men, ie. 'when will we see your likes again?'. In this way it's almost the perfect national anthem - it ties together the nation's past, present and future in a way that few other countries' anthems do.
8

Jardine,

20/10/2008 02:53:51
#4
"As Rome was, London is, Edinburgh will be.

As the Brahan Seer said"

Did he mean dirty, overcrowded, expensive and full of Arabs?
9

Pilrig,

Livingston 20/10/2008 05:15:21
3 - such as ?
10

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 20/10/2008 05:37:26
What was the song? "Take me back, take me back again where heather hils are high, and I hear a mavis singing in the morning"?
That has a cheerful tune and the lyrics are not too bad either.
11

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 20/10/2008 06:43:02
I loved Flower of Scotland when it was first played at Murrayfield in March the 17th 1990 !

Since then though it has been played to death and is always played too slowly so it becomes a dearth ....

I knew 'The Corries' quite well - Bill Smith, Paddie Bell, Roy and Ronnie and I am glad they have an anthem to their name - Bill and Ronnie (if they can bear talking! hehe) should speak to the SRU and the likes and get them to up the tempo and embellish the tune ....
12

Bibamus,

20/10/2008 06:46:10
I wonder how far up a list of popular Charities 'Scots Care' would come, I've never heard of them.
What makes them think that they are in a position to tell the Nation what and what is not popular, from what must be a very small and totally unrepresentative sample ?
13

Webbie,

mullingar 20/10/2008 07:30:14
A London charity wonders why ?
" other hopefuls ruled out of the contest include Maggie May by Rod Stewart and Mull of Kintyre by Paul McCartney and Wings."
Because they're by Englishmen.
Will Scotscare help Mr Brown when he is out of a job and destitute on the streets of London?
14

Corrennie,

20/10/2008 07:47:07
Dreary dirge, especially when played on squawking bagpipes.

However.....suits the backward-looking Scottish chip-on-the-shoulder victimhood mentality.

'Flower of Scotland'? Bunch of weeds, more likely.
15

Boy Wonder,

20/10/2008 07:55:35
Personally, I think Caledonia is the best ...

I don't know if you can see
The changes that have come over me
In these last few days I've been afraid
That I might drift away
So I've been telling old stories, singing songs
That make me think about where I came from
And that's the reason why I seem
So far away today

Oh, but let me tell you that I love you
That I think about you all the time
Caledonia you're calling me
And now I'm going home
If I should become a stranger
You know that it would make me more than sad
Caledonia's been everything
I've ever had

Now I have moved and I've kept on moving
Proved the points that I needed proving
Lost the friends that I needed losing
Found others on the way
I have kissed the ladies and left them crying
Stolen dreams, yes there's no denying
I have traveled hard with coattails flying
Somewhere in the wind

(Chorus)
Now I'm sitting here before the fire
The empty room, the forest choir
The flames that could not get any higher
They've withered now they've gone
But I'm steady thinking my way is clear
And I know what I will do tomorrow
When the hands are shaken and the kisses flow
Then I will disappear
16

Guga II,

Rockall 20/10/2008 08:02:14
"ScotsCare, a charity which helps needy Scots in London".

I've never heard of them, let alone their web site, and I'd be willing to bet that the greater majority of Scots have never heard of them either. That being the case, why does the Hootsmon publicise any poll held by them?

In any event, who cares what they, or any of the English posters here, think. Most Scots seem happy enough with Flower of Scotland. I also doubt whether many Scots are happy about that racist rant, the English national anthem.


17

drunken proffet,

Tassy 20/10/2008 08:02:18
I reckon I would support any song that had the verse "and protect us from the rebellious English". It does not even have to be tuneful, as long as you can hum it.
18

eric,

20/10/2008 08:07:20
The world knows auld langs syne even the english,
xray spex-oh bondage up yours ,would be nice.or if you really want to look silly any madonna track.
19

carrottop,

Dumfries 20/10/2008 08:07:36
Where is Scotland the brave? Uplifting and catchy but all we get is yet more choices of what the majority probably dont want.
20

Guga II,

Rockall 20/10/2008 08:08:28
Incidentally, I'll bet that this London based organisation never included "Schiehallion" in its list of songs to be voted for. That would be the most appropriate national anthem for Scotland.

Schiehallion

Come charge up your glasses and lets drink a toast,
To the bold Scottish heroes and the proud Scottish host,
To the battles we've won and the few that we've lost
Here's a health tae the back o' Schiehallion.

Chorus :
Schiehallion, Schiehallion, I hear your voice calling,
Across the Great Glen to the coast of Argyll.
The Lowlands, The Highlands, The Borders, The Islands,
I'll drink tae the back o' Schiehallion.

The bluebell of Scotland is hanging her head,
And the lion once rampant is lying like dead.
They grieve for their country whose courage has fled
Far awa' tae the back o' Schiehallion.

God speed the day when the Scots shall awake,
The fetters of England to crack and to break.
And stand by that freedom their birthright to take
Here's a health tae the back o' Schiehallion
21

Louis Catorze,

20/10/2008 08:32:59
Schiehallion....."the fetters of england to crack and break"...

My god, what an embarrasment...the fetters of England...honestly!
22

jamesde,

York 20/10/2008 09:03:13
I've always thought Flower of Scotland to be a dismal dreary dirge, and no idea why the Scottish team adopted it as their anthem - far better songs to choose from - Scotland the Brave, or A man's a man for a'that for example
23

BorderLineScottish,

20/10/2008 09:08:48
The usual "anti-English/Scottish" sh*t stirrers (trolls) are out in force today! Any excuse, however flimsy, and off you go!

Personally, I like Flower of Scotland, but Big Country's "Fields of Fire" is a big tune to stir the emotions and would be ideal for sporting events, but will not be recognised as Scotland's best loved song. Pity.
24

Guga II,

Rockall 20/10/2008 09:15:56
#21.

Pity you hadn't been Louis XVI.
25

,

20/10/2008 09:39:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 20/10/2008 09:43:35
The theme from the Archers.
27

tommy,

belfast uk 20/10/2008 09:49:46
Those days are passed now
And in the past they must remain
But we can still rise now
And be the nation again

of course this was before the multiculturalist ethos prevalent now had paralysed the mind
28

danbob,

20/10/2008 10:01:33
My vote goes to "Highland cathedral" I know it was written by a german but when played by orchestra and pipes combined a very beautiful tune. Failing that Donald wheres yer trousers will do.
29

,

20/10/2008 10:06:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

Partan,

Fife 20/10/2008 10:14:15
#27
Naw, the original "Dr. Finlay's Casebook" theme.
Anyone know what the correct title was?
31

danbob,

20/10/2008 10:17:13
30# Have you not heard? The irish potato famine was caused by the irish forgeting where they had planted them.
32

57vintage,

Keith 20/10/2008 10:18:06
No Gods and Precious Few Heroes by Brian McNeill

I was listening to the news the other day
I heard a fat politician who had the nerve to say
He was proud to be Scottish, by the way
With the glories of our past to remember
"Here's tae us, wha's like us", listen to the cry
No surrender to the truth and here's the reason why
The power and the glory's just another bloody lie
They use to keep us all in line

For there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And it's time now to sweep the future clear
Of the lies of a past that we know was never real

Farewell to the heather in the glen
They cleared us off once and they'd do it all again
For they still prefer sheep to thinking men
Ah, but men who think like sheep are even better
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new
They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you
Just mind you pay your rent to the factor when it's due
And mind your bloody manners when you pay!

And tell me will we never hear the end
Of puir bluidy Charlie at Culloden yet again?
Though he ran like a rabbit down the glen
Leavin better folk than him to be butchered
Or are you sittin in your Council house, dreamin o your clan?
Waiting for the Jacobites to come and free the land?
Try going down the broo with your claymore in your hand
And count all the princes in the queue!

So don't talk to me of Scotland the Brave
For if we don't fight soon there'll be nothing left to save
Or would you rather stand and watch them dig your grave
While you wait for the Tartan Messiah?
He'll lead us to the Promised Land with laughter in his eye
We'll all live on the oil and the whisky by and by
Free heavy beer! Pie suppers in the sky! -
Will we never have the sense to learn?

That there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And I'm damned sure that there's plenty live in fear
Of the
33

57vintage,

Keith 20/10/2008 10:20:32
Continued...

That there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And I'm damned sure that there's plenty live in fear
Of the day we stand together with our shoulders at the wheel
Aye there's no gods

I also always liked:

Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Each at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race

but I suppose its sentiment would be a bit community-minded for the free marketeer survival of the fittest generation who hog these boards.


34

57vintage,

Keith 20/10/2008 10:23:54
...or there's aye Byron's Dark Lochnagar.

I've got dozens more.

I'm here all week.

Try the beer.

What about "Macewans is the best buy"?
35

Louis Catorze,

20/10/2008 10:35:58
#25...ah...clever. I see what your doing there.

Witty and incisive riposte. Touche..
36

Conan the Librarian™,

20/10/2008 10:49:38
I'll add to the song-fest with my favourite;

Roch the wind in the clear day's dawin
Blaws the cloods heilster-gowdie owre the bay
But there's mair nor a roch wind blawin
Thro the Great Glen o the warld the day
It's a thocht that wad gar oor rottans
Aa thae rogues that gang gallus fresh an gay
Tak the road an seek ither loanins
Wi thair ill-ploys tae sport an play

Nae mair will our bonnie callants
Merch tae war when oor braggarts crousely craw
Nor wee weans frae pitheid an clachan
Mourn the ships sailin doun the Broomielaw
Broken faimlies in lands we've hairriet
Will curse 'Scotlan the Brave' nae mair, nae mair
Black an white ane-til-ither mairriet
Mak the vile barracks o thair maisters bare

Sae come aa ye at hame wi freedom
Never heed whit the houdies croak for Doom
In yer hoos aa the bairns o Adam
Will find breid, barley-bree an paintit rooms
When Maclean meets wi's friens in Springburn
Aa thae roses an geans will turn tae blume
An the black lad frae yont Nyanga
Dings the fell gallows o the burghers doun.

37

Paul R,

20/10/2008 10:54:19
Why not just compose a brand new song?
38

Conan the Librarian™,

20/10/2008 11:03:38
39
All the colours of the rainbow here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwRCBHhyrAA
39

Phil the Flooter,

20/10/2008 11:09:05
#8 'Full of Arabs'

Do you mean Dundee Utd supporters?

Now theres and Image

'Twa Hundered peh and Chips please'.
40

Louis Catorze,

20/10/2008 11:13:19
#42.....:) :) :)
41

Phil the Flooter,

20/10/2008 11:13:47
The usual hatred of the English spouted by Guga.

He will want a 'commitee of Racial Purity' set up soon to vet members of this forum for 'Scottishness'

sad thing is, he would like that!

Flower of Scotland is a Dirge

God save the Queen is a dirge.

They are all bloody dirges.

Write a new one!
42

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 20/10/2008 11:53:32
You would have to go a long way to beat Eddi Reader's Ae Fond Kiss. Her version of Wild Mountainside by John Douglas is great too !
43

Breizh Hibee,

Abroad 20/10/2008 12:03:43
Flower of Scotland wouldn't be my choice, but most other countries are jealous of it when used as a sporting anthem - they all know and adore it.

The lyrics to Scotland the Brave are atrocious and embarrassing.

For me, it has to be A man's a man.
44

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 20/10/2008 12:06:02
#15 Boy Wonder

I love Caledonia too. Pity Dougie saw fit to replace the line "I have kissed the ladies and left them crying" with a more politically correct version.
45

Breizh Hibee,

Edinburgh 20/10/2008 12:09:25
Or even this - this'd get them going!

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=dwFDN0ikfbY
46

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 20/10/2008 12:09:48
#38 Conan

A great song but quite complex and tricky to sing.
47

Lianachan,

Highlands 20/10/2008 12:25:17
Where's "If You Hate The Effing English Clap Your Hands" ?

That's a song the whole world can join in!

(In case it's not obvious, this is a joke)
48

Guga II,

Rockall 20/10/2008 13:02:00
#44 Phil the Flooter.

Away and play with yourself.


49

AJ Fife,

20/10/2008 13:24:09
#34

Couldn't you no pick a slightly shorter wee ditty?

How about something by proper Scottish rockstars like Alex Harvey or Nazareth?
50

The_Reiver,

20/10/2008 13:43:18
Why have a national song at all? Lets face it they're all rubbish. Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika excluded: which is a powerful song of reconciliation and pride in the natural beauty of South Africa. Completely the opposite of the militaristic 'Flower of Scotland' with its ghastly tune (especially when sung by RBS executives at Murrayfield).

Me I like 'I belong to Glasgow' - better enjoy the sentiment before Ayatollah MacAskell stops us having a couple of drinks on a Saturday.

#35 I'd certainly vote for the Internationale but the likelihood of Scotland ever embracing Socialism is lower than finding life on the dark side of Uranus.
51

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 20/10/2008 14:56:10
"Flower of Scotland" may be stirring both in lyrics and tune but, unfortunately, it can't be played (correctly, that is) on the bagpipes.

Runrig's "Alba", however, would be an absolute cracker!
52

,

20/10/2008 15:10:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
53

,

20/10/2008 15:15:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
54

AJ Fife,

20/10/2008 15:20:24
UKIP,

Hows about 'God Save the Queen' by the Sex Pistols? I always liked that one.....
55

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 20/10/2008 15:23:30
#58, AJ
Or "Cool Brittania" by the Bonzo Dog Doodah Band?
56

Duncan Wallace,

Edinburgh 20/10/2008 15:24:36
#58 aye, or "Stuff the Jubilee" by Carter USM
57

Joe90,

20/10/2008 15:36:15
What about "Scots wha hae"? Written by the National Bard, historic, stirring, tuneful and may be played in any time, including the march...

Scots wha hae wi' Wallace bled!
Scots wham Bruce has aften led!
Welcome to your gory bed, or to victory!
Now's the day and now's the hour,
See the front of battle lour,
See approach proud England's power,
Chains and slaverie

Wha will be a traitor knave?
Wha will fill a coward's grave?
Wha sae base as be a slave?
Let him turn and flee!
Wha for Scotland's Right and Law,
Freedom's sword will strongly draw,
Freeman stand or freeman fa',
Let him follow me

By oppression's woes and pains,
By your sons in servile chains,
We will drain our dearest vains,
But they shall be free,
Lay the proud usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
LIBERTY's in every blow!
Let us do or die!

(my capitals in the second last verse)
58

Joe90,

20/10/2008 15:40:57
Or what about the "Uist Tramping Song"? Surely that would not offend anyone?
59

Mcsnagpile,

20/10/2008 16:12:15
We need a competition for a new song we could even get it on Eurovision. Preferably without words like knavish tricks (an that). A wee ditty fae Hamish or summit.
60

Truely English,

20/10/2008 16:31:26
If the Scots are wishing to have a National Anthem other than God Save The Queen and I can't understand why they would want any, then surely it should be about extolling the virtues of Scotland.

Of course, there are many such songs about England written very often by Scotsmen.

The issue as to whether England has a culture also raises its head many times as well. What is central to being English is our great and precious English language and without it we could not be either identified or defined as English. Culture comes with every language and cannot be seperated.
61

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 20/10/2008 16:38:19
Got to be Ian Richardson's "Scotland Will Flourish"

Scotland will flourish by the sweat of labour
The strength of our will and the force of our mind
Forget the old battles, those days are over
Hatred corrupts and friendship refines

Let the Scots be a nation proud of their heritage
With an eye to the future and a heart to forgive
And let us be rid of those bigots and fools
Who will not let Scotland live and let live

Let us govern over country wisely and fairly
Let each man and woman work with a will
And Scotland will flourish secure in the knowledge
That we reap our own harvest and ring our own till

And let us be known for our kind hospitality
A hand that is open proper to friends
A hard working people, proud and unbending
Scotland will thrive and win out in the end

Scotland will flourish by the sweat of labour
The strength of our will and the force of our mind
Forget the old battles, those days are over
Hatred corrupts and friendship refines

So let us be known for our kind hospitality
A hand that is open proper to friends
A hard working people, proud and unbending
Scotland will thrive and win out in the end
62

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging Around 20/10/2008 16:40:42
Oops - old adage of check before you post...

Scotland will flourish by the sweat of labour
The strength of our will and the force of our mind
Forget the old battles, those days are over
Hatred corrupts and friendship refines

Let the Scots be a nation tho' proud of their heritage
With an eye to the future and a heart to forgive
And let us be rid of those bigots and fools
Who will not let Scotland live and let live

Let us govern our country wisely and fairly
Let each man and woman work with a will
And Scotland will flourish secure in the knowledge
That we reap our own harvest and ring our own till

And let us be known for our kind hospitality
A hand that is openly proffered to friends
A hard working people, proud and unbending
Scotland will thrive and win out in the end

Scotland will flourish by the sweat of labour
The strength of our will and the force of our mind
Forget the old battles, those days are over
Hatred corrupts and friendship refines

And let us be known for our kind hospitality
A hand that is open proper to friends
A hard working people, proud and unbending
Scotland will thrive and win out in the end
63

Dave Scott,

Broughty Ferry, Angus 20/10/2008 16:46:56
56Vote UKIP, 20/10/2008 15:10:44

And did those feet in ancient time, Walk upon England’s mountains green:

ANSWER: "NO" - Glastonbury myth, nice thought though!

And was the holy Lamb of God On England’s pleasant pastures seen!

ANSWER: "NO" - again, no reliable record of Jesus visiting these shores. Must be bracketted with other forms of British Israelitism as spurious

And did the countenance divine Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

ANSWER: "YES" - and on all His Creation - not just England

And was Jerusalem builded here, Among these dark satanic mills?

ANSWER: "NO" - Blake is being satirical (and you complain about the Yanks not getting it?) Blake wanted social reform, his true feelings about England of his time is captured by the phrase "satanic mills"

Bring me my Bow of burning gold: Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold! Bring me my Chariot of fire!
I will not cease from Mental Fight, Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:

GREAT LYRICS

Till we have built Jerusalem, In England’s green & pleasant Land.

WHICH REPRESENTS HOPE NOT FAIT ACCOMPLI. Eschatologically the 'New Jerusalem' descends where the old one was/is NOT in the Home Counties !!!!

Funny how Parry's music distorts Blake's sentiments against the injustice he found in his native England - which is why he employed the use of prophetic Biblical imagery since they had tried to champion justice in Ancient Israel.
Blake's confession is that England is an unjust society.

I'd go for Gaughan's 'Both sides the Tweed' - it's by far the most neighbourly sentiment.
64

we the people,

20/10/2008 17:02:58
57 vintage top posts mate i like your style.
i vote scotland the brave. Also like green grow the rushes, and lord ronald.
65

Ben Cleuch,

LUTON 20/10/2008 17:11:58
Don't worry boys I am writing the new anthem as we speak. I have the tune and I am working on the lyrics.
They will modern and forward -looking with no references auld battles.
BTW have you noticed that nobody refers back to the Battle of Harlaw when 50000 Highlanders and Lowlanders hacked lumps out of each other up in Aberdeenshire. Is that because it is bad for the artificial, sentimental image of a united Scotlnad that Wally Scott conjured up?
Hopefully have it ready for 'The hamecoming' next year.

Remember you saw it here first.
66

Swordsman,

Dublin 20/10/2008 17:15:53
How about the theme to "Balamory"? ..Starts off brightly then we all end up saying "Whats the story?" when we get pumped by Outer Mongolia...etc.
67

Pilrig,

Livingston 20/10/2008 17:21:37
28 - the North British mentality caused the alleged paralysis more than any alleged multi-culturalism did
68

Pilrig,

Livingston 20/10/2008 17:48:12
64 - as spoken by Cockneys, Geordies, Brummies or Brian Sewell ? : )
69

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 20/10/2008 17:51:31

I would repectfully suggest Hoots Mon by the Lord Rockingham Eleven as a quintessential flavour of Scotland,.It has the virtue of being uplifting, catchy, and would demonstrate to all that Scots have a sense of humour.
70

Ben Cleuch,

LUTON 20/10/2008 17:54:22
When I was a boy we used to sing :
Oh Ah love a sausage
A bonny hieland sausage
Ye canny get near it for the smell
Ye can fry it wi' an ingin
Until yer een are stingin
Mary ma Scots bluebell.

Any good?
71

Joe90,

20/10/2008 17:56:04
#64
It never ceases to amaze me how often the English go on about their wonderful language and then proceed to mutilate it, as you do. In fact, I tend to agree with you and think that English is a most expressive language but original it is not. It is made up of Latin, French, Old French, High and Low German, Scandinavian languages, etc. etc. with a few sub continental and Arabic words thrown in for good measure.

Your 'nom de guerre' belies your knowledge of your own language, or perhaps your lack of proper education. The word 'truly' is spelled t.r.u.l.y. and separated is spelled s.e.p.a.r.a.t.e.d.

I really do wish that the English ,who insist on the union, would explain to me why they are prepared to hang on to Scotland come hell or high water (or independence) when we are such a burden to England!! Do tell!



72

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 20/10/2008 18:18:59
#64
Oil, whisky and someone to blame!
73

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 20/10/2008 18:19:49
Ooops
That should have been addressed to #75!
74

Truely English,

20/10/2008 18:42:36
75
The English don't insist on holding onto Scotland, it is the Scots who insist on staying with the English and being part of the English experience.

We English are more than delighted that you wish to do so and some of us can only assume through years of history that you wish to be British. This I have seen over a long period of time, indeed the Scots I have been with were much more English, than many people from Liverpool and Bath.
Why break-up a Union when the Scots themselves wish to hold on for dear life in everyway be it cultural or their love of all things English and in particular the riches of the English language.
75

Truely English,

20/10/2008 18:46:52
75 cont.
The Scots could have left Britain and the English experience many times over the last 40 years but had no wish to do so.
76

Ananurhing,

20/10/2008 18:49:04
I believe "God Save The King" was a tune before the words to the anthem were written. The tune was just lifted. So with that in mind, I think we should just select a suitable tune for an anthem first, pen the lyrics later.

It'd have to be something uplifting and cheering instead of our usual dirges. How about "Oh I do like to be beside the seaside", or maybe, "The sun has got his hat on".

You can just imagine Chris Hoy on the podium with a brass band playing tiddley om pom pom!
A catchey wee dittey indeed!
77

WL,

Livingston 20/10/2008 19:10:00
If it is not going to be "Flower of Scotland" what is the alternative that all soccer and rugby players will be able to sing???????
78

Swordsman,

Dublin 20/10/2008 19:19:14
#81..Ian Dury and the Blockheads.."Sex and Drugs and Rock and Roll" would fit the bill,I fear...
79

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/10/2008 19:32:21
80, Anunurhing. If I can recall correctly, the "National Anthem" (must be nats who sing it) is an old central European folk tune. The words were penned as King George the nth was fleeing England for France at about the same time the Jacobites reached Derby.

80

beckypumps1,

Fife 20/10/2008 19:43:05
So what story is being kept out of the headlines due to this rubbish I wonder?
81

Joe90,

20/10/2008 19:43:09
nos 78 &79

Oh dear!!

I don't know whether or not you are trying to wind me up! You obviously do not take on board the sentiment of most of the posters on these boards. There are hundreds of thousands of Scots who would jump at the chance of being sepArated from Westmonster.

I lived and worked in and around London for more than thirty years and I never met ANY Scottish expatriate who wanted to be 'English'!. You would not believe the patronisation that I experienced during that time. I was frequently treated as a second class regional cousin who did not count for much!

I don't know where you get your information from but I do not recall that the Scots were offered any sort of independence in the last forty years. Indeed, when the plebiscite for devolution was held in Scotland in 1979, central government went to great pains to modify the time honoured rules of majority vote in order to prevent a 'yes' vote. By imposing a rule that 40% of the population eligible to vote must vote for devolution, the government all but guaranteed that the plebiscite would be lost by a couple of percentage points. In fact, of those that bothered to go out and vote, more than 50% voted for devolution. It took a further 20 years before this half boiled solution was reached. So much for the Scots and their independence! We are a second class people in a far region of the union. Give us our freedom!! Now!


82

Ananurhing,

20/10/2008 20:05:23
#83 Jock Tamson

Thanks Jock. Was that the original anthem, or just the 4th verse (rebellious Scots to crush etc.)?
83

Wee Pal Joe,

20/10/2008 20:24:32
"rebellious Scots to crush"?

Don't forget:

1) It was only ever about a particular, rebellious group of Scots a long time ago, not all Scots

2) It's not part of the British national anthem as officially used anyway.

Scots songs? "My Love Is Like A Red, Red Rose" is the first that springs to mind. Kenneth McKellar's version is superb.
84

Swordsman,

Dublin 20/10/2008 20:39:02
#87...We bow to your superiour knowledge on the subject,Joe.Know the words inside out,Hmn?

How about a rerr old Scottish tune that wouldnt alienate the "younger" set and still bring a tear to the eyes of the "Jack & Victor" crowd...Kelly Marie..."I Feel Like I'm In Love" (POW POW!)
85

thaijambo,

20/10/2008 20:39:42
Auld lang syne gets my vote
86

thaijambo,

ben the scullery 20/10/2008 20:40:45
Auld lang syne gets my vote
87

Swordsman,

Dublin 20/10/2008 20:51:29
Haud oan! Joe.

"1) It was only ever about a particular, rebellious group of Scots a long time ago, not all Scots"

So from what you are saying, GSTQ is OK cos the crushed Scots mentioned were rebellious,and so deserved it.Not the lickspittle crowd who tugged forelocks and held our wheesht afore our betters?You can go about your business...

Glad we cleared that up...Remember folks,Its OK to sing it as long as you werent a troublemaker and kept the idea of your own wee place and a wee bit of self determination thrown in for good measure to yourself..
88

,

20/10/2008 20:54:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
89

,

20/10/2008 22:13:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
90

Canadian Jambo,

20/10/2008 22:14:44
When I was a youngster I used to go on a Clydebank Juniors supporters bus to away games with my father and his work mates. Among other 'entertainments' there was lots of singing. I remember a chorus of a song sung with relish (and a few drinks) that went something like this.
But give me the land of the heather and the kilt,
And the bonnie, blooming heather,
For the blood runs in my viens when I hear the bagpipes play,
Scotland, dear old Scotland,
For e----------ver!!
Does anyone know that song? its title, and/or some more of its words?
Happy days.
91

Truely English,

20/10/2008 22:24:26
85 Joe90

Simply count the number of Elections there has been since 1900 and earlier and this will give you the number of opportunities the Scots have had for leaving the Union.
It is clear the Scots still want the status quo.
92

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 20/10/2008 22:37:39
"The English", oh how often I have wondered why in 2008 it is acceptable to stereotype one race, who enjoy no protection against racist comments, and have to suffer such dogma. This is the last post I intend to make on this paper, bigotry has allways been a drug to the ignorant.I have just spent a pleasent evening in the pub in the company of a Welshman who told me he had been discriminated against in his own country for not being a Welsh speaker.For God sake wake up, learn the lessons of history, Bosnia , Serbia, kosovo, we all pee in the same pot, this Island is too small for this load of rubbish.
93

Conan the Librarian™,

20/10/2008 22:40:07
94
It's "Hail Caledonia" Jambo.
94

Joe90,

20/10/2008 22:41:04
#95 You're a moron and you still can't spell TRULY!

95

Conan the Librarian™,

20/10/2008 22:42:29
94

Let the Irish sing of their Em'rld Isle
Where the four leav'd shamrock grows,
Let the English praise their valleys and braes,
And the bonny blooming rose,
But give me the land of the heather and the kilt,
The mountain and the river,
For the blood leaps in my veins
When I hear the bagpipe's strains
Scotland, dear old Scotland forever!
Hail Caledonia! land of my childhood,
Home of my birth, so radiant and fair.
Though I have roam'd through the world and its beauties,
Nowhere on earth with thee can compare.
Thou art majestic and regal in splendour,
Thou art the land of the gallant and free,
Lassies with hearts aye so true and so tender.
Hail Caledonia! how I love thee!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q4BNkugkYM
96

Prancer,

20/10/2008 22:51:06
Walkin' Back To Happiness by Helen McShapiro.
97

Swordsman,

Dublin 20/10/2008 23:03:24
"We're on the march wi' Ally's Arm.....?"Oh Please yourselves!
98

brownlie,

20/10/2008 23:04:20
95 Truely

Do you mean "Rocking all over the world" by status quo is wanted by Scots?

99 Conan

You fairly had my tootsies a-tapping there!
99

Conan the Librarian™,

20/10/2008 23:10:58
102
Not my favourite song, thanks to references of "Scotchmen", "God Save the King" and "Rule Britannia" :-)
100

brownlie,

20/10/2008 23:15:06
103 Conan

In view of the help given to the financial sector by Brown what about "Britannia waives the rules"?
101

Helen,

20/10/2008 23:29:41
I'm English and I loathe 'God Save the Queen'. As a staunch anti-monarchist I object to a national anthem in honour of someone who was given the job undemocratically simply because of who their parents and grandparents were.
All the home nations should have their own anthem and England should have Jerusalem. Satire or not, it's a remarkable tune with powerful lyrics.
102

Conan the Librarian™,

20/10/2008 23:30:35
104
Gordon saves, saves every sinner you can see
Gordon saves, saves even amateurs like me
Gordon saves, saves men of evil, men of greed
Gordon saves, saves you from thinking, just believe
That Gordon saves, and you can lemming-like go walking, to the
Cliffs of eternity.

Apologies to Del Amitri.

103

Marky Bhoy,

None 21/10/2008 00:06:29

Spare us at least from God save the Queen
104

Wee Pal Joe,

21/10/2008 00:08:34
"So from what you are saying, GSTQ is OK cos the crushed Scots mentioned were rebellious,and so deserved it.Not the lickspittle crowd who tugged forelocks and held our wheesht afore our betters?" (#91)

Pretty major misunderstanding of the Jacobite wars there.

Sorry if I punctured anyone's myths. No need to chuck your toys out of the pram.
105

Finlang,

Switzerland 21/10/2008 00:42:49
#56 Vote UKIP
"Forget Flower of Scotland, Jerusalem should be Scotland's anthem. That's a tune that makes you want to sob and weep over the graves of our ancestors!!!!"

Jerusalem? Sob and weep away to your heart's content. You just painted yourself into another corner with no escape. (Jerusalem = Israel = Palestine = Middle East hell.

The only sensible thing about the oddity that is UKIP is the get-out-of-the-EU bit. On national anthems your union (English) tattoos are showing, from the party that is somewhwere between the far-right of the Tory Party and the limp-wristed wing of the BNP. Away with you to Jerusalem.


 

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