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Fears of al-Qaeda forging links in Lebanon



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Published Date: 14 June 2008
"IT'S going to be us and al-Qaeda against Hezbollah." Sitting in a disused warehouse in the Bab-al-Tebbaneh district of Tripoli, a Sunni fighter explains how the ad-hoc militia that he helped command in the recent fighting are preparing for the future.
Softly-spoken and courteous, speaking to The Scotsman on condition of anonymity, he pauses to offer cigarettes. "When we hear al-Qaeda are threatening the Shia, we do celebratory gunfire," he says.

Al-Qaeda has had major setbacks recently. In
Iraq, at least according to the CIA, it has suffered "near-strategic defeat", while missile strikes have killed some top figures in Pakistan.

It is believed to be looking for new fronts to open. In the past month, jihadi websites have been abuzz with discussion on how best to exploit the situation in Lebanon. With internal security in disarray and sectarian tension at a peak after Hezbollah's humiliating take-over of Beirut last month, the country could offer an opening.

When Hezbollah, a Shia party, brandished its power, some of Lebanon's Sunnis felt humiliated. Their Grand Mufti, Qabbani, warned that they had "had enough", bringing fears his words could be interpreted as a signal to fight back.

"After the Mufti's speech, we received funding from rich Sunni individuals," claims the Bab al Tebbaneh fighter. "What happened has pushed us into more co-ordination. We have more contact. We are ready. This is happening all over the country. We have no problem with al-Qaeda coming in, if they want to defend the Sunnis."

Lebanon has swung repeatedly between bursts of optimism about the "Switzerland of the Middle East", with its beaches, night-life and ski resorts, and tragically destructive wars involving Israel, Hezbollah, and other Lebanese and Palestinian factions.

Sunnis in Lebanon, a majority Muslim country, are chiefly interested in getting back to business and work. But in some areas they are demanding a more radical response. If Sunni Muslims feel vulnerable, it could be a good time for Sunni extremists, some with ties to al-Qaeda. Analysts are worried.

"Extremists are at the peak of their possible popularity and recruitment … they could cause a security upheaval," said Timur Goksel, a security expert at the American University of Beirut.

Unlike some of his comrades, the Bab-al-Tabbaneh fighter is not a Salafist – a Sunni fundamentalist – which makes his tolerant attitude to al-Qaeda all the more disturbing.

Tripoli has a history of Salafism. But although they have grown in visibility in recent years, the Salafists are not as powerful as they were in the 1980s. After Hezbollah and allied fighters shelled the city last month, however, Sunni public opinion is increasingly demanding a more radical response.

"The Future Movement (Lebanon's mainstream Sunni political party] are all engineers and doctors," says Araby Akkawi, a well-connected local. "The feeling is that you need an extreme Muslim group to face another extreme Muslim group."

Khaled Daher, a former parliamentarian from north Lebanon, echoes this: "The Future Movement's weapon is education. The Sunnis cannot keep on holding pens in front of rifles."

The Future Movement's Saad Hariri suffered a major blow to his prestige at the hands of Hezbollah. But it is unlikely anyone will supplant him as the political leader of Lebanon's Sunnis. "No-one else has the amount of international support he has," said Mr Akkawi.

The Future Movement has no military strategy for dealing with Hezbollah and has exerted pressure on armed Sunni groups to exercise restraint. But, Mr Akkawi says, the Future Movement has "no power over extremist suicide bombings".

Security incidents have occurred on an almost daily basis in the past month. An audio tape released on Monday purported to be from the leader of the al-Qaeda-affiliated group Fatah Islam, which killed over 100 Lebanese soldiers at Nahr al Bared refugee camp last year.

It suggested that "the car bombs of Iraq and brigades of martyrdom-seekers" would be the next stage of the conflict. "Me, personally I'm ready to become a suicide bomber," says the Bab-al-Tabbaneh fighter.

"I am training my boy to fight Hezbollah," he says, showing us a picture of a child holding a rocket- propelled grenade.

It is not clear who was behind the recent attempted suicide bombing mission from Ein el Helweh refugee camp. But the more militant sections of the Sunni population see such actions as a boost for their cause.

In the main mosque in Tripoli last Friday, Sheikh Bilal Baroudi told worshippers to "take advantage" of the "rage" they were feeling, ending his sermon on an ominous note: "What happened at Ein el Helweh is just the beginning."

Formidable fighting force with power and prestige

HEZBOLLAH, the Party of God, is a Shia group which has a formidable military wing – supplied by Iran. It first emerged in Lebanon in the early 1980s and became the leading radical Islamic movement in the region, with the goal of driving Israeli troops from the country.

In May 2000, its prestige received a huge boost when Israeli forces withdrew from Lebanon. In 2006, they returned, provoked by Hezbollah's cross-border attacks, but if the month-long conflict was an effort to break Hezbollah's military power it failed. Last month, in a show of force, Hezbollah took temporary control of Sunni-majority West Beirut.

Sunnis in Lebanon have resented Hezbollah's power for a long time. Al-Qaeda, a Sunni group, also sees Hezbollah as the enemy, despite the fact that they share an anti-Israel, anti-US agenda.

This is partly because extreme Sunnis see the Shia as infidels and partly because Hezbollah control Lebanon's Southern border with Israel, which al-Qaeda thinks should be open for jihad.

The past few years have seen an increase in extremist Sunni groups, some of whose members have fought with al-Qaeda in Iraq, using Lebanon's refugee camps as a base. Both foreign and local Sunni extremists, it is thought, are seeking to exploit the current anger and fear amongst Lebanon's Sunnis to strengthen their positions.

No official census has been taken of Lebanon's estimated four million people since 1932, reflecting political sensitivity over religious balance. It is thought that Muslims account for about 60 per cent of the population.



The full article contains 1050 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 June 2008 12:29 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lebanon
 
1

Harry "Dingy" Reid,

Las Vegas 14/06/2008 02:21:11
"Al-Qaeda has had major setbacks recently. InADVERTISEMENTIraq, at least according to the CIA, it has suffered "near-strategic defeat", while missile strikes have killed some top figures in Pakistan"

This will really upset the terrorist appeasers like Guga.
2

Linus,

at arm's length 14/06/2008 03:32:50
#2 Harry "Dingy" Reid,
Guga ll is definitely not a terrorist appeaser, in fact, quite the opposite. What he has you upset about is the fact that he pointed out that your Administation is no better than any other terrorists, for the simple fact that your Administration is causing terror on a global scale. Your CIA is a criminal organization as well, about as much of a terrorist group as you can get, and they have the approval of the Whitehouse, and Bush has told them that they can continue torturing their suspects, and the key word here would be 'suspects'. Wait until they suspect you of wrongdoings, and you will be strapped to the board, and you have nothing to confess, for you're just a suspect, not guilty of anything, AGAIN, just a suspect.
So when push comes to shove, you sound like the terrorist appeaser to me.
3

W Smith,

Middle East 14/06/2008 04:35:59
3#
Like Hitler you would have us believe that the US is a 'terrorist state'.

The cartoon with the Statue of Liberty with the face replaced with a skull first appeared in 1930's Nazi Germany as yet another smokescreen by Hitler to cover his own atrocities.

Hitler went on to sign a pact with Joseph Stalin which puts his anti-american stance in perspective.

Salmond's penpal the President of Iran has adopted the same cartoon and can be found on the walls of the former US Embassy.

You haven't been reading Noam Chomsky books again have you?

BTW
The Christain population (mainly catholic) of Lebanon has gone down over the last 30 years as many of them were basically driven out of the country by Palestinian trouble makers.

With all this going on Salmond's protest friend, catholic George Galloway, says "Hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation".

The Lebanese arab catholics must be 'honoured' at getting so much support from catholics Galloway and Ernie Ross then eh?
4

Linus,

at arm's length, 14/06/2008 04:44:38
#4 W Smith,
Come again? You're babbling like a fool, can't make out a damn thing you're saying. Catholics and Christians. You make it sound like they go together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Romans who crucified Christ? You know, the Roman Catholics?
5

Rosie's Opinion,

14/06/2008 05:00:34
#3 Linus - Guga is a terorist appeaser and so are you.

#4 W Smith - Good points.
6

American,

14/06/2008 05:06:17
#5-linus-My parents have been roman catholics for decades. They didnt have anything to do with crucifying Christ. As a matter of fact, my grandparents and great grandparents were Roman Catholics for decades too and I never heard any story about them crucifying Christ. Get my drift you fool!
7

Grim Reaper,

14/06/2008 05:28:38
This could be good news. At least, if the Sunni versus Shia battle intensifies the nutcases won't be having a go at the rest of us western satanic infidels. I love it!
8

57Nomad,

california 14/06/2008 06:16:15
#3 linus

linus said:

"nd Bush has told them that they can continue torturing their suspects, and the key word here would be 'suspects'."

Linus, you may or may not have good points to make but I want to point out something to you. First of all, you quoted yourself. This isn't very persuasive. Second, and most important is this. You are using the word suspect as if you know why the terrorists are referred to as 'suspects' in the media.

The media is constrained in their phrasing by their legal departments. Let me give you a hypothetical case just to illustrate a point. Suppose a television news crew was broadcasting live on a city street. In to the picture as passer by appears waves to the camera and knocks the newslady to the ground with the butt of a pistol and then, on live television, shoots the prostrate newslady to death. That very news station could not refer to the perpetrator as 'the murderer.' They would have to preface that statement with the words 'suspected' or 'alleged.' Did you know that? I don't think you do. Consequently your torturous logic concerning 'suspects' is void of meaning because you do not know why the word suspect is used. It is not used by the people who actually capture the criminals and terrorists. It is used to conform with the legal requirements of the distributing media. If, during WWII, a German bomber was shot down and its crew captured after parachuting to the ground, would you contend that they should not be placed in POW camps until a jury had convicted them? I doubt it. That's what you are asking to be done here. You err because you do not understand the genesis of the word 'suspect' in media accounts. Now you do. You should rework your argument because as it stands now it is flawed beyond redemption.

9

57Nomad,

california 14/06/2008 06:24:31
#5 linus

linus said:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Romans who crucified Christ? You know, the Roman Catholics?"

You asked to be corrected if you were wrong. You are wrong. Ask yourself this, how could Roman Catholics have crucified Jesus? Just think for a minute. Not only were there no Roman Catholics when Jesus was crucified, there was not one single Christian of any kind anywhere on the face of the earth. The followers of Jesus were a small group exclusively made up of Jews. You aren't very bright, are you?
10

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 14/06/2008 06:37:16
Nomad..
:) those flaws and others are the bases for many of his arguments.
11

57Nomad,

california 14/06/2008 06:51:10
#2 The Dingmeister

You are too right. What is happening in Iraq is the appeasers nightmare scenario. As is clear to everyone in Iraq, the war there is over and has been for about a year. A couple of years ago in the Sunni area of Iraq, foreign jihadis, having infiltrated into the country from Syria, were given shelter by the Sunni's and moved freely and were indistinguishable from the local population. But, as terrorists often do, they began to terrorize their hosts, finding unarmed and helpless women and children more appealing targets than say, Marines.

After a year or so passed there was a struggle for dominance, the jihadis insisting on being recognized as the official dispensers of law and justice. This flew in the face of the traditional role of the sheiks who had always had that responsibility. Naturally, this irked the sheiks, many of whom balked at the indignity. One of the most respected of them and I cannot recall his name opposed the rule of the jihadis and confronted them openly.

This is how the jihadis responded. The exploded a chlorine bomb as the sheik's entourage was passing by killing the sheik, his family and retainers in a rather hideous fashion. Far from intimidating the other sheiks, it pissed them off. Then from out of the towns the jihadis controlled and on the order of the sheiks, individuals made their way up to the nearest US Army or Marine base they could find with maps, addresses, names and photos of the jihadis and asked the soldiers and Marines, if they had the time and inclination, if they would be so kind as to kill them and offered any help they could. At this point, the war was over. The Shia hate the jihadis and did from the start because so many of them were Sunnis. Now, courtesy of their bad manners, the jihadis found themselves fighting the Sunnis as well.

Today, the Sunni and the Shia populations are on our side and against the foreign jihadis who have caused them so much misery. The war is over, we won, they lo
12

57Nomad,

14/06/2008 06:52:11
#12 contd.

The war is over, we won, they lost and the Gugas and Linus' on this forum are like Wiley Coyote treading air over the Grand Canyon. The are found out to be just what their critics here have maintained all along. They are cheering for the terrorists and against the people of Iraq who hate them. The winner here, as history will note long after the ankle biters are gone is none other than that noted fool, George W. Bush. He has done what everyone said was impossible. He has deposed the tyrant, united the people of Iraq and created the conditions which has allowed the Iraqis, our long suffering brothers and sisters, to make for themselves a real democracy and one they can be proud of.
13

57Nomad,

california 14/06/2008 06:55:52
#11 Lynne

The fact that he's a pinhead isn't helping to move his thesis forward either.
14

Linus,

at arm's length 14/06/2008 07:20:31
57Nomad,
It was the Romans who crucified Christ, and the church calls itself the Roman Catholic Church, therefore they are the culprits, no matter how you try to dance around the issue. And you're right, at the time of Christ's crucifixion, there were no Christians, but yet to this very day the Roman Catholic Church claims that they are Christians, trying to duck the very fact that they are the ones who crucified Christ.
Now to the business of torture so enthusiastically promoted by your idiot of a president, a suspect is just that, no more, no less, and deserves a fair trial, no matter what this suspect is suspected of doing. Torture is wrong, I don't care who you do it to. but I keep forgetting that you Americans think that you own the world, and that we should all answer to you, well, keep dreaming, you Americans are a minority in the bigger picture, try to remember that.
15

,

14/06/2008 08:22:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

Tiang,

14/06/2008 09:31:35
Linus #15

What's your problem? Any Churches are entitled to call themselves whatever names they fancy. It's up to them to choose a name for themselves. If they choose to refer themselves as Roman Catholic, so what? The Roman Catholic Church is also known to be Christians or do you expect to call them Buddhists or Hindus or Muslims or whatever. What have the ancient Romans' past wrongdoing got to do with today Catholic Church and her parishioners?
17

Linus,

at arm's length 14/06/2008 10:27:04
#17 Tiang,
I have no problem, the Catholic Church is the one with the problems. Their history is deeply rooted with murder, child molestation, more specifically to young boys, religious persecution, fraud and anything else bad that you can think of. It sounds to me that they are the ones with the problems, and if you go through life thinking otherwise, those problems extend to you. The only reason they call themselves Christians is to hide the fact that they crucified Christ. I hope you are happy paying to that lot, I'm sure your money will be put to good use. DREAMER.
18

,

14/06/2008 12:07:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

Golly,

14/06/2008 12:37:26
#15 Linus

Eeejit, stop digging your hole.
20

Linus,

at arm's length 14/06/2008 13:00:42
#19 Silence of the Yams,
Why don't you ask #4 W Smith what this has to do with Catholics, he brought it up, and you support the Yanks because they fund Israel with their untold billions of dollars in military aid every year. And it's not Islam that's the problem, just the fanatic ones following it, I'm sure that the majority don't back the extremists, but just like it was with the Nazis, roughly 10% seem to rule, and the rest are afraid to speak out.

#20 Golly,
Exactly what hole is it that I'm digging? The one you're afraid of falling into by any chance? Because secretly you agree with me, you just don't have the backbone to say it here. Grow up and try speaking out about what you truly believe in, don't be a blind follower. Kissing butt won't get you anywhere, least of all respect.
21

Tiang,

14/06/2008 13:12:47
Linus #18

You fool! With the kind of comment you post, it's obvious you are the one having so much problems with the Catholic Church or otherwise you would not have come here to spew your hatred against the Church. Get a life! They are Christians by nature and not what you tried to make up, giving lame excuses. The Catholic Church today has nothing to hide neither guilty of who crucified Christ in the past. That is history.
People who took part in murder, child molestation, fraud, persecution or whosoever extend to consist of various ethnic groups, races, religious background and atheists. You have been very selective of whom to blame and the fact that you only single out the Catholic Church simply proves to show you are the one having problems to whinging over the Catholic Church! Go on dreaming and fooling yourself!
22

Tiang,

14/06/2008 13:19:35
Linus #21

The Americans have also been funding and generously giving out financial aids to other countries whether Muslims, Christians or other religious background, not only Israel. What has Israel got to do with the article above? Why single out Israel? So you also have problems with Israel then!
23

Linus,

at arm's length 14/06/2008 13:36:42
#23 Tiang,
Try reading into what Silence of the Yams is saying, try to open your mind just a wee bit. Notice how he goes on about Islam? The same Islam that is an ever so painful thorn in the side of Israel. The Americans are heavily funding Israel with military aid, for Islam is also a big painful thorn in the side of the Americans, mostly due to the fact that many Islam nations have that ever so precious oil. So Tiang, have a relaxing cup of tea, put on a movie, and try to relax, you're about to pop a vein.
The Catholic Church is guilty of all that I said that they are guilty of, and just because other parties are guilty of that as well, doesn't change the fact that tha Catholic Church is an absolute disgrace to mankind.
24

Tiang,

14/06/2008 14:13:48
Linus #24

Now it's very clear I was right, you have so much problems with the Catholic Church, yet trying to fool and deny it! It sounds that the believers of the Church are also responsible of the crimes committed by few blacksheeps in the community. How stupid of you to blame the whole lots representing the Church! There are other people of various races involved in such crimes you named but you conveniently single up only the Church showed your prejudice toward the Christians of that faith.
Nevertheless, many terrorists are also Muslims and Islamists. Would you also consider Islam as an absolute disgrace to mankind then, taking into account in reference to your condemnation of the Christian Church?

Israel is an American ally. So what is wrong with Americans funding Israel, to help their friends? The same goes to Iran and Syria funding Hezbollah or Iran funding Hamas and Iraqi shia because they are their allies and friends. Why didn't you question and bring them up too? Why only single up Israel??

What is wrong with Silence of the Yams's post? You were highly critical of the Catholic Church and his comment was just in response to show you that it was the Catholic Church stopping Islam from taking over Europe.
25

Linus,

at arm's length 14/06/2008 15:54:07
#25 Tiang,
Would you just relax? I mentioned the Catholic Church only in response to W Smith at post #4, and from there I pointed out some of the things wrong with the Catholic Church, and only some things, I don't have enough time or energy to completely point out all that is wrong with that business calling itself a church. I also was clear about the fact that many are guilty, but that it didn't take away from what the Catholic Church is guilty of. The Americans are funding the Israelis with untold billions of dollars because they need somebody in that neck of the woods to keep an eye out for the big prize, and yes, that would be oil. The rest of the Middle Eastern countries are joining together out of nescessity, to keep the Americans at bay. They all want a piece of the pie, and it is after all their pie, but the Americans are doing everything they can, illegally I should add, to get in there and claim the big prize, and therefore are funding Israel, it's always good to have an ally, and they buy the Israelis and pay them off just to keep an eye on things. Just like they are doing with Taiwan, and just like they are doing in Europe, and basically anywhere you can think of. So again, don't pop a vein, if I have offended you by pointing out all the facts about the Roman Catholic Church, so be it, you should be big enough to shrug it off.
26

,

14/06/2008 15:59:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Linus,

at arm's length 14/06/2008 16:29:40
#27 Alec in Chicago,
It would be fair to say that the Bush supporters are the stupid ones, take a look at your gas and all fuel prices, at your jump in unemployment rate, your foreclosure rate, and how the rest of the world perceives you. Still laughing out loud? You can thank that Moron Bush for all your woes, and you call the Bush bashers stupid. You're a real prize, aren't you?
28

57Nomad,

14/06/2008 16:38:13
#15 Linus

Linus said:

"57Nomad,
It was the Romans who crucified Christ, and the church calls itself the Roman Catholic Church, therefore they are the culprits, no matter how you try to dance around the issue"

To say that you have no grasp of logic whatsoever is like saying that the seas are not above the sky (thank you, Douglass). You see, my friend, in order for your statement to be correct, members of the Roman Catholic Church must have possessed time machines. Jesus was crucified prior to the existence of the Roman Catholic Church. Consequently, according to you, members the RCC must have traveled back in time to accomplish this. Do you have photos or something taken in bowels of the Vatican Library showing sneaky proto-Popes and their pre-Constantinian physicists gathered around their timecraft plotting to kill Jesus to justify their existence? For that matter, are you aware that the late great Luciano Pavarotti also called himself a Roman Catholic? Wait! I forgot about Gina Lolobrigita.

In general what you are saying is this. Roman Catholics are Romans (really?). Romans crucified Jesus. therefore Roman Catholics crucified Jesus. This is called a syllogism. You have rendered it in this form:

All A are B. B implies C therefore, if you grant A you grant C. I can tell you one thing, Chirpy, if you had ever turned in a test with this kind of idiotic mistake on it in a high school logic class you'd get an F for the entire course. According to you, the following statement is true. All jets are aircraft. the Wright Bros. built an aircraft, therefore the Wright Brothers built a jet. Probably not.

I do not expect you to grasp this basic concept. It is beyond you. But, it is not beyond most. You are making a fool out of yourself in public. You are embarrassing your friends and humiliating your family.

After demonstrating that you have a mind about as stable as Burnham Wood you gallop forth, clapping coconuts together, and render this gem for
29

57Nomad,

14/06/2008 16:43:22
#29 contd

render this gem for all to see:

"Now to the business of torture so enthusiastically promoted by your idiot of a president, a suspect is just that, no more, no less"

The word 'suspect' is a label, it is not the thing itself. In order for you to make your case you must prove the label and the thing are identical. This you have not done and cannot do. Look, Chirpy, one thing is clear, your post has certainly identified an idiot.
30

Tiang,

14/06/2008 16:59:38
Linus #26

If you don't have time to think reasonable, then don't post! W Smith #4 post is regarding Christian population of Lebanon going down due to the Palestinian trouble makers. His comment has nothing to do with anything concerning crimes but you deliberately brought it out, making excuses to vent out your hatred at the Church although such crimes involved all sort of people from different races and religious background, not just Catholic Church which you singled out. In other words, you come here to find an opportunity to dig and spew hate, not because you are concerned of the crimes committed.
What has the article above got to do with oil? If you are interested in talking about oil, then look for American posters who are keen in this subject.

Why only Israel again? You chose to omit to mention that the Americans have also been funding other countries, one of which recently I read of billions aid pledge for Afghanistan. Israel is a small country surrounded by hostile Arab neighbours and Muslims. So it is not surprisingly the Americans are keen to help her ally boosting its defence. Same goes for Iran funding Hezbollah and using it as proxy to attack Israel or Iran funding Iraqi shia militants to attack Americans.
Earlier, I pointed out that many terrorists are also Muslims and Islamists. Would you also consider Islam as an absolute disgrace to mankind then?

So don't pop a vein if I have offended you by pointing out you are the one having problems with the Church and Israel, your prejudice and failure to make fair judgement with regards to perpetrators of crime. It seems you aren't big enough to think rational.
31

we the people,

14/06/2008 18:05:58
#4 Smith
why bring hitler into it? smear and hyperbole to disguise your lack of argument.
whether or not hizbollah are a terrorist army depends on what you mean by terrorist - is it an objective description or merely a word which conveys disapproval? U.S army manual says terrorism is use or threats of violence for political ends. this means every government in the world is terrorist, as are hezbollah etc. violence on such scales always has political ends, however perverse. i would class hezbollah as an irregular border defence force - if the lebanese army had even a fraction of the funding that israel's does, there would be no need for hezbollah. as things stand, with israel occupying territory, and having slaughtered and destroyed indiscriminately during their last invasion (whose purpose, as was made quite clear in the knesset, was slaughter and destruction)hezbollah are absolutely vital to the defense of lebanon's territorial integrity and population. If you don't like them, the best way to get rid of them would be to supply the regular lebanese army with f16s and field artillery so they can protect themselves from their aggressive, expansionist neighbour. until then, hezbollah should be regarded as lebanon's de facto army.
32

American,

14/06/2008 18:33:30
#15-linus-You're right & I think all those who played a part in crucify Christ should be rounded up and put on trial for torture and murder.

#18-linus- "Their history is deeply rooted with murder, child molestation,"--I had to reread your post as I thought you were describing the religion of islam.

#28-linus- You sound a bit like kiumar who was caught in his bullsh#t lies (he couldnt make up his mind if he lived in the US or not). Anyway, not a bush fan as far as his immigration policy (at all-he's a real democrat in that issue), but in his defense---the man has been saying for several years that it is time to drill, drill, and drill more with building more refineries in the states. It is our democrats, lefty-treehuggers, and a handful of "moderate" republicans (like mccain) who are against the drilling and refineries.
And, for the housing foreclosures--little fact, more people own houses over the years. Also, someone should have common sense to figure out if they can afford a house and all it's expenses before they buy it(of course, i'm sure there are some that have had financial problems due to health and lack of work).People have to think outside the box @ times.
Lack of jobs is also related to high cost of oil, which will get worse because of those opposed to drilling and building refineries. If clinton and his clan had not opposed more drilling, gas would not be a problem now.

BTW-you and your ilks always say we went to iraq because of the oil. I think we're well overdue in proving you people right. We're well overdue!!!
33

American,

14/06/2008 18:35:33
Why do none of you hezbollah terrorist-sympathizers not feel that iranian backed hezbollah is illegally occupying lebanon?
34

we the people,

14/06/2008 18:51:12
because it isn't.
israel, however, is.
35

Regina,

NH, USA 14/06/2008 18:51:27
28 Linus

You can blame the sudden increase on fuel to the democratic held congress. Even with the price we are paying now it is not nearly as high as Europe. When you look at other items in how much they have gone up in the past 20 years, fuel is cheap. You haters have tunnel vision and can never see the big picture.
36

Matt there,

somewhere 14/06/2008 18:55:33
al-Qaeda: Is it really anything to do with religion, or is it a front for greedy vermin who want to rule the whole Middle East like some 12th century despots, creaming off all the money and setting up large harems for themselves?
37

Trade-wind,

USA 14/06/2008 19:44:53
My late grandfather, rest his sole, always told me never talk to a fool. As it might happen that someone could pass by and hearing the conversation would not be able to tell the difference. I pass that good advice on to all of you great defenders out there. Let this fool
Linus wander about speaking to himself. Then all will know him for what he is without mistake.
38

American,

14/06/2008 22:39:29
#28-linus-Your country isnt having gas increases? Where are you from?
39

American,

14/06/2008 22:44:04
#38-trade-wind-I just read your post. That's very good advice, tough though--especially when someone is passing their opinions off as facts.
40

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 15/06/2008 02:06:23
Linus...a short history lesson for you on religion

://www.mapsofwar.com/images/Religion.swf http

41

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 15/06/2008 02:12:37
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/Religion.swf

if that doesn't work...try this..
42

Linus,

at arm's length 15/06/2008 06:16:54
#42 Lynne,
Thank you so much for getting me to waste my time looking at that useless information. It doesn't tell me anything, it's far too general and lacks narration and everything is rounded off. If you want to prove me wrong, or as I stated before, correct me if I'm wrong, you'll have to do better than this rubbish. In the meantime I stand by about what I said about the Roman Catholic Church, nobody until now has proven me wrong, and you can't prove me wrong, for nobody knows for sure what happened nearly 2000 years ago, but you're all providing me with entertainment, my sincere thanks to all of you, especially my closest ally, 57Nomad. Hey Tiang, have you settled down yet? Don't want to see you hospitalised over this, it isn't worth it.
43

57Nomad,

california 15/06/2008 07:34:02
#43 minus

Minus said:

"In the meantime I stand by about what I said about the Roman Catholic Church, nobody until now has proven me wrong, and you can't prove me wrong, for nobody knows for sure what happened nearly 2000 years ago, but you're all providing me with entertainment, my sincere thanks to all of you, especially my closest ally, 57Nomad."

Linus, I am pleased that I have provided you with a modicum of entertainment. I am only trying to return the favor. After you have had your chuckle do you then return to amusing yourself sorting through your collection of pebbles?

You assert that no one has proved you wrong. Well, why should anyone try when you have done such a through job yourself? You see, little fella, the crucifixion of Jesus was the cause of the establishment of the RC. The crucifixion was the cause, the establishment of the RC was the effect.

Now I want you to get your fat pencil and wide-lined paper and write this down:

THE EFFECT MAY NEVER PRECEDE THE CAUSE!!

Did you get that? The effect may never ever precede the cause. And yet this is what you smugly assert. The fact that you cannot grasp this fundamental precept is worrisome. There are those, you know, whom the municipality charges with the responsibility of keeping lunatics from circulating among the general populace. I fear your deranged statements may come to their attention and lead those people to track you down and throw a net over you and take you to a place of confinement where you cannot bring harm to yourself. A person who is comfortable with the notion of the effect preceding the cause may also fancy himself able to cross the street against heavy fast moving traffic because he has his magic shoes on.
44

Linus,

at arm's length 15/06/2008 07:48:38
#44 57Nomad,
So these words would be words of wisdom according to the mentally challenged 57Nomad.
Watching too much TV have you? Too many superhero comic books being read by you?
Were you by any chance a witness when Christ was Crucified? I wasn't, but I am saying that the Roman Catholic Church is guilty of his crucifixion, and you can't prove me wrong. You babble too much, think too highly of yourself, and proving what an idiot you are. How do you know when the Roman Catholic Church first started growing roots? You don't. Nobody does. Popular belief is that it started a little less than 2000 years ago, which could or could not be before the crucifixion of Christ. There again, nobody knows, especially not you. You are still stuck in that bubble of yours that the whole world answers to the US, that's all you ever worry about, as to anything else happening or anything that has happened, your are completely out to lunch. Back to the drawing board for you, and prove that the Roman Catholic Church wasn't the one guilty of crucifying Christ. Good luck.
45

Linus,

at arm's length 15/06/2008 08:04:47
#44 57Nomad,
The effect drugs had on you caused you to be such a babbling idiot, proving effect indeed preceding cause. Chew on that for awhile, that should keep you busy for the rest of this month.
46

Tiang,

15/06/2008 10:25:54
Linus #43 – “Hey Tiang, have you settled down yet? Don't want to see you hospitalised over this, it isn't worth it.”

Is this little note the best you can come out with in reply to my post #31? I realize you have been evasive of my questions put forward above and so reckon you have run out of argument to dispute my allegation over your hatred against the Catholic Church and having so much problems with Christians of that faith, making a fool of yourself to the extent of blaming them for something happened centuries ago. The truth is, the Romans were the ones who crucified Christ. But what has the Catholic Church got to do with killing Christ? 57Nomad pointed out Luciano Pavarotti called himself a Roman Catholic. So did he also kill Christ?
Come on Linus, relax and rest in peace. Not worth your time and energy seeking treatment at hospital over matter like this. You are making yourself a laughing stock! If you are still treating this as an entertainment, then Silence of the Yams was right to say you are a moron. Don’t thank me for that, it’s my duty to inform you of your stupidity and biased judgement.
47

Linus,

at arm's length 15/06/2008 10:48:26
#47 Tiang,
Try to read my comments again at post#26, I also pointed out wherelse the US is investing their military aid.
You really need to lighten up, I made an accusation regarding the Roman Catholic Church, and I don't care as to who claims to have membership in that Church. I said that they crucified Christ, and now I leave it up to you and the rest to prove me wrong, and in the meantime I find it very entertaining that you're all going crazy to prove me wrong, for it is so obvious that you can't prove me wrong, just as obvious that I have no proof of that I'm right. Are you beginning to see the light yet, or do you need further explanation? Try to go through life a little less seriously Tiang, and you'll be able to enjoy life more, and have some fun, just like I am having right now. Do you think that I really care as to who crucified Christ? A little before my time, and doesn't affect me in any way, as it shouldn't affect you either.
48

Tiang,

15/06/2008 14:09:23
Linus #48

I have no idea what is so important about your comment #26 that you need me to read it again! Once more you mentioned US. Whatever she wishes to invest in, is solely her own business, so why bother? Are you an American? If so, use your vote to speak your mind. If you are still frustrated, then leave US and move to a place you desire. There are many choice of countries you can choose to live in and no one is forcing you to stay there.

I also don’t care as to whatever claims you made up regarding the Catholic Church. You chose to criticize and single her up, not because you show concern of the crimes committed but because of your resentment, bearing hatred and strong dislike at the Christian Church, thereof finding some foolish excuses to smear her.
I read the posts from other posters and I’ve found they also treated your fantasy amusing tales with a grain of salt and contempt you absolutely deserve. I have also proved you wrong and therefore any further explanation is fruitless from you for it is too obvious to note the fact that the Romans were the ones who crucified Christ which happened centuries ago. The Catholic Church has nothing to do with the cruxifixion neither responsible for it. Period. Only realistic people use their brain to think, not out of hatred.

I have been enjoying life as usual and have fun, whether going through life less seriously or not. Same throughout as it is daily. Your last question: yes, you do really care as to who crucified Christ. If not, you would not have come back occasionally here to debate, read my posts and from other posters.
49

Linus,

at arm's length 15/06/2008 14:28:33
#49 Tiang,
Still not listening I see.
I directed you back to post#26, because you claimed that I was only picking on the Roman Catholic Church and the Israelis, where in fact I pointed to every guilty party, whoever they may be.
You're still taking all this far too seriously, and your blood pressure is going off the map.
Just because the other posters fell in the same trap as you did, doesn't make you right, it just shows that you are not the only uptight person out there, and if you've noticed, the rest have backed off since then, realising they've been had. Where I live doesn't matter, I just state my opinions, throw in a little fun every once in awhile, just to see who bites. Sometimes it's good to have a little fun Tiang, you should try it, you'll see how refreshing it is. As you can see, most of the news in the world is glum, so I brighten things up a little bit, and I'm having fun, can you say the same?
As far as Christ's crucifixion goes, was there ever such a person called Christ, and if so, was he crucified, and if so, how is it that he came back from the dead? And if he did come back from the dead, where would he reside now? I know, Israel, right?
50

Tiang,

15/06/2008 15:42:29
Linus #50

Why should I listen to you? After all you come here basically to spew hate at anyone you dislike and make up incredible stories to suit your agenda. Don’t expect me to believe you pointed to every guilty party, whoever they may be as you stated above. Like I said earlier on, you have been very selective. How come the guilty party you list out did not include Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, Al Qaeda, Jihadis. Are these groups the ones you support, that you badly need to cover up their guilt?????

You do not have to worry anything about my health, high blood pressure or not . My GP knows better and can take care of that, not you. You are no doctor.
Boy, you have been flattering yourself and dreaming too much all along. No posters have ever fallen into your trap and back off. It’s not difficult to figure out the others who have treated your comment with contempt you rightly deserve for they knew you are simply too hopeless and stubborn to debate with, especially when you have to resort to creating fantasy fun tales to be used as facts! Too childish.

Your last few questions of doubt have simply proved yourself to be an ignoramus, that you are actually a numpty, knows nothing about the Christian Church and Christ despite trying to be too smart in making up statement such as the Catholic Church crucified Christ!
At last you have admitted that you come here for the purpose of – “throw in a little fun every once in awhile, Sometimes it's good to have a little fun, I'm having fun”. Your own words expose your true colour, coming here to seek entertainment and have fun, not for sensible debate. In other words, you don’t list out facts but fooling around, spouting children tales. Keep dreaming and spinning lies then if that make you funny and amusing!
51

Linus,

at arm's length 15/06/2008 15:57:29
#51 Tiang,
And your blood pressure is going up, damn near popping that vein I warned you about yesterday. The more you bite, the more fun I have with you, can't you see that? And even after telling you the whole purpose of me having fun with you, you still don't get it, and keep coming back. And to be clear as to what you're saying about the other posters, they are somewhat more clever than you, for they have not bitten again, where you insist on doing so time and again.
I comment about the issue at hand, but when an idiot like W. Smith comes on the scene, then I switch gears and start having some fun, and when somebody like you comes along, well, than I will take it as far as it will take me, and you are giving me a lot of mileage, thank you kindly. I will try to be kind and warn you again, take care of your health, and the best way of doing that is by having some fun.
52

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 15/06/2008 16:38:40
Linus...I do not know how old you are, but do you really need a narrator on that link!!
What happens when you look at a chart or a graph without a narrator?
This link proves you are wrong, but because you just hate, you can't admit it.
A short history of religion by years, and you have a hard time digesting it because it doesn't have a narrator!!!
53

Tiang,

15/06/2008 17:48:05
Linus #52

Very amusing to read your post about blood pressure going up!! As I said earlier on, you are trying to be too smart but in a very silly way. You know nothing about my health conditions and so only my GPs can take care of that. Accept yourself for what you are, you are no doctor and your farce warning is really of no use to me! Any attempt from you trying to be too smart is in fact making you look even more like an idiot.

You are the one who is too foolish to see I am getting some kind of entertainment out of all your childish pranks and incredible fantasy tales. I was amused at times to read what you have created to smear the Catholic Church. So don’t be too blind to assume I have been “bitten” by you for I enjoy every minute of your children bedtime stories. That is why I come back here and you follow me too because you need my guidance.
As for the other posters, they are equally as clever as me, I bet they “watching” over us and amused to read your fantasies. They will come back for your childish fun tricks and not necessary to post, although one is doing so already.

Oh, I welcome you thanking me for giving you a lot of mileage, say it again for I’m glad you have a humour to thank me openly, my pleasure. But I don’t need any farce warning from a moron like you because my GPs are even smarter, you have no brain to compare with them anyway. Any more stories of your creation again? Come on, give me more fun and everyone a laugh at your stupidity.
54

American,

15/06/2008 20:26:51
#52-linus-"The more you bite, the more fun I have with you"--thats your idea of fun! You need a life, with friends. Just be aware that your mullahs are not your real friends. As soon as they talk you into becoming a homicide bomber, you will be forgotten about. They wont even remember your name. BTW-how many names do you go by on these threads??
55

Linus,

at arm's length 16/06/2008 05:54:39
#55 American'
I was under the impression that you could count, but by asking me how many names I use on these threads, it's obvious you can't even count to one, for one name is all I use, and you've seen that name, so try to count again. Right after 0 you get 1, and that is where it's at. Just like you use American, 57Nomad uses 57Nomad, Tiang uses Tiang, and Lynne uses Lynne. I could give you more examples, but anything over 1 is probably a waste of my time with you, for like I said, it's obvious that you can't count. I am not into killing anybody, that would be your government you're confusing me with, I don't support terrorism, at any level, from anyone, and your government has caused and is causing more terror than anybody else ever has, or ever will. They are guilty of millions of cases of homicide, more than anyone else.
56

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 16/06/2008 08:24:24
Linus..obviously you do not know that there are unscrupulous people on the fora who admit to using 2, 3, and 4 names or more.
The others can give you the list as to who they are..I don't bother keeping track anymore.
Even so, you hatred for the American gov't is so vicious you sound like a few of them..the multi-named people.
57

Linus,

at arm's length 16/06/2008 11:18:36
#57 Lynne,
I registered with this paper on Saturday, and I had to choose a user name, and was told that once I had chosen a name, it can't change, so it would be extremely difficult to post under a different name, I hope that is clear to you, I don't know how else to explain it.
I don't hate your government or anybody or their governments, but your government openly admits to torture, Bush has fought to keep that policy intact, and your government is currently involved in an illegal invasion of Iraq, as well as an illegal war in Iraq, the UN even called it that, and we should abide by the laws of the UN, or why else have the UN? If you don't agree with the UN's ruling, than that needs to be taken through the international courts, you can't just thumb your noses at them and do as you please, what's the point of having laws if you can go and break them without fear of reprisal, or reprisal itself. If by now you can not see what your government is guilty of, I'm afraid that you will never see what they are guilty of. If you don't care, that's another story. But I report on many stories, and I can feel the pulse of the rest of the world, and believe me Lynne, the rest of the world is more than fed up with what your government is doing all over the globe.
58

Linus,

at arm's length 16/06/2008 14:09:15
#54 Tiang,
Everybody is guilty of typo's and spelling mistakes at times, but you seem to have a little more problems with the language than most. You don't read too clearly, have a poor way of expressing yourself, yet you don't seem to lack education, leaving me to guess that English is a second language to you, and if that is the case, my compliments to you, as a second language, you have mastered it better than most. When I did comment to you back at post#52 saying that the others haven't bitten, that is used relating to fishing, where the fish would bite at the bait. This is what I had said to you,
"And to be clear as to what you're saying about the other posters, they are somewhat more clever than you, for they have not bitten again, where you insist on doing so time and again".
I never said that you were bitten by me, but you understood that I had said that to you, and here's your quote at post#54,
"So don’t be too blind to assume I have been “bitten” by you for I enjoy every minute of your children bedtime stories".
This quote, and some of your other ways of putting things leads me to the assumption that English is a second language to you, but again, my compliments, you have learned it well. And if you do indeed enjoy my humour, good, because it is meant to be funny, and not meant to be taken seriously. My job can get to be boring and depressing at times, so I like to liven things up with some controversial statements, just to brighten things up a little. No harm intended, just the kid coming out in me. Life's too short, many people don't take the time to have fun, I don't like to let the time pass me by without having some fun.:)
59

Tiang,

16/06/2008 15:55:07
Linus #59

If you said everybody is guilty of typo's and spelling mistakes at times (your own words), then what’s the point bringing up grammar problems when even yourself cannot understand the language besides making mistakes as you admitted? To be clear enough, each individual has his or her own perception on certain words used differ from others. They may have thought other people fully understand what they meant but then there’s a possibility others could think differently over the same subject in question.
As for “bitten”, I took it as fallen into your trap of lies, believing all sort of your made up childish fun tales. So I replied that, no posters had ever fallen into your pack of claptrap except taking it as children bedtime stories and thus they were equally as clever as me. By the name of my non-English ID taken, you aren’t smart enough to figure it out (until so many times of posts and still guessing) that English is my second language. Probably you didn’t read my posts clearly either, to understand what I was really pointing out. So your command of English is not the best then.

What I resent about you is, coming here on purpose to spew hate on the Christian Church, your prejudice and of telling lies. This sort of “fun” you sought to amuse yourself is no good. Only playing and fooling out of frustration.
60

Gere,

Scotland 16/06/2008 17:33:41
Bush was the catalytic agent that facilitated Al-Qaeda securing a foothold in Iraq, Israel has performed the same role in the Lebanon!
61

Dragon's 'tale',,

transylvania 17/06/2008 03:11:22
Come on Linus, I've known you for years, you can do better than that, you never used to give guys like Tiang a break, what happened, getting to old? Don't turn soft on me now, guys like Tiang have obvious issues, keep tightening the screws on him, you almost got him.

Tiang,
Take a pill buddy.
62

Linus,

at arm's length 17/06/2008 08:24:32
#61 Dragon's 'tale',
You know how old I am, but hat has nothing to do with it. This Tiang guy needs to learn how to relax, and I'm trying to give him a break. I too can see that he's almost reached his breaking point, and I don't need that on my conscience, if something was to happen to him. He struggles with the language, so can be forgiven for failing to see the humour. If he was anybody else, I'd have finished him off a long time ago. When I come back from Portugal, I'll give you a call and you can buy me a drink, I think you still owe me a few.
How's the fishing by the way, still not as good as I am I bet.
63

Tiang,

17/06/2008 16:36:28
Dragon's tale #61

That’s not funny, bringing up issue like taking a pill! If you need to post just out of boredom or frustration over something, talk more sense. I don’t need anyone or Linus to give me a break. I am more than capable to handle him. But alas, he always tries to evade my questions whenever he has nothing rational to substantiate his claims.
64

Tiang,

17/06/2008 16:43:43
Linus #62

In the other threads I read, some posters hinted you have other IDs created before! Maybe you are also Dragon’s tale aka Linus?? If that is the case, you are making a fool out of yourself! So this explained why you posted above #49 these “throw in a little fun every once in awhile, Sometimes it's good to have a little fun, I'm having fun”.

Get real! I don’t need a break from you. In fact, it’s the other way round. Look more like you’ve lost an argument and wanted to get out of here but couldn’t find a good excuse to do so seeing that I keep coming back responding to your posts, so now you wished I would relax, eh?
You are also wrong to suspect I struggle with the language. English has never been a difficult subject for me but if it really is, I would not have been able to contribute many posts in this thread to express my views freely.

 

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