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Published Date: 28 January 2008
By MICHAEL HOWIE
HUNDREDS of thousands of pounds given to police to boost security in Scotland's capital has been "eaten up" by a spiralling pensions bill, The Scotsman can reveal.
Police chiefs in Edinburgh last year hailed two new deals that resulted in an extra £600,000 being paid to the local force to provide dedicated officers to meet the heightened terrorist threat at Edinburgh airport and protection for the rising number of royal and VIP visits.

However, The Scotsman has learned the money allocated under the two agreements will instead be diverted to help plug a £3 million pensions hole next year. The move, expected to be rubber-stamped by the joint police board today, effectively means the force will have to keep drawing down front-line officers from communities to provide the extra security.

The situation highlights the mounting pressure on Scotland's police forces from a massive growth in their pensions liability over the next three years.

A huge wave of retirements, totalling some 2,000 officers, will leave police forces having to pay out an extra £107 million in pension costs by 2010-11, with the burden peaking in 2009-10 when the eight forces will have to find an extra £53 million.

The Scottish Government says it has provided for the extra pension costs in its settlement with local authorities. But the fact the funds are no longer ring-fenced has left police leaders fearing that millions of pounds will have to be plundered from operational budgets.

Grampian Joint Police Board has already voted to plunder its front-line budget to meet part of the pension-fund shortfall.

The Lothian and Borders board is today expected to agree to lobby the Scottish Government for extra money to meet its soaring liability. A report to go before members says the increasing pension costs is a "national issue" that has been discussed with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Cosla) and the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland (Acpos).

"These discussions have been problematic as there has been a lack of clarity regarding the level of funding provided for police pensions costs within the local government finance settlement," the report states.

"Arising from these discussions, there is a consensus that there is a need to identify local solutions to address pressures in 2008-9. However, the financial pressures peak in 2009-10 and there is a general view that further discussions are required with the Scottish Government regarding funding for police pensions in that year."

In November, Lothian and Borders Police reached a deal with the Edinburgh Airport operator, BAA, for the latter to meet the full £2.5 million annual cost of a dedicated police unit on the site, securing five extra officers over and above the existing 39 on duty, as well as more trained firearms personnel. Previously, the airport operator had been paying about 75 per cent of the cost, leaving the force to draw down front-line officers from other areas.

Meanwhile, Kenny MacAskill, the justice secretary, last month agreed to a plea from David Strang, chief constable of Lothian and Borders Police, for an extra £217,000 a year to fund a unit to co-ordinate protection for the growing number of visits from Royals and other VIPs. At the time, police said the agreements would ensure officers used in the two areas could be returned to front-line duties in the city and surrounding areas.

Reacting to the BAA agreement, a force spokesman said at the time: "An important aspect of this arrangement is that the policing presence in the communities will not be compromised as we will have a dedicated team at the airport."

Councillor Iain Whyte, the Lothian and Borders board's convener, said the extra funds given to police would now be used to plug the pensions gap.

Savings would also be made in overtime, rent costs and from a reorganisation of traffic wardens.

"The money for these things is being eaten up by the increased pension costs. They will still be used by the police, but I would have liked, and I'm sure Kenny MacAskill would have liked, to see that money being used to release more police officers into the community. That will now not happen," he said.

The full article contains 719 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 January 2008 9:29 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Law and Order
 
1

Jingling Geordie,

Sunshine on Leith 28/01/2008 00:11:23
A time bomb waiting to explode, Police and Fire Brigade retiring at 50 on 50% of their respective saleries plus a tax free lump sum of at least £45,000.
Public Sector retiring at 60 with the very same package,
Such payments are funded by those working to 65 or longer, this could bankrupt the country, time for serious modernisation before it's too late and if they strike then sack them.
Time to be brutal, those with such generous PUBLIC funded pensions should have no right to the State Pension which should be given over and divided equally amonst those who work to 65 and fund the Public Sector pensions.
2

Arrow,

edinburgh 28/01/2008 00:15:38
at least edinburgh's finest will be ok with the extra money won by margo. and her from blantyre as well.
3

Cabbage Patch Troll,

28/01/2008 00:24:49
What a totally insignificant surprise!
4

Roger Irrelevant,

28/01/2008 00:33:24
Crime is down.

We can afford to let the polis sit around all day munching burgers and calculating their pension entitlement.

I read it here:
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/5000-fewer-crimes-in-Lothians.3714730.jp

and here:
http://news.scotsman.com/opinion/Britain-not-safe-from-crimes.3714042.jp#2414163
5

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 28/01/2008 01:35:09
Is this an admission from the police that they are incapable of managing the pension fund themselves?
6

,

28/01/2008 02:14:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Dawn of the dead,

28/01/2008 02:19:01
As an afterthought, who are the people who prop this country up by working lobbying for the defecits in our pensions? Who are we lobbying to get what we were promised from the tax payer?

We will have to work until we are 70 to get the basics. Whereas the fat, lazy, stupid Policeman gets everything he was promised (and doing nothing in reutn fo it) and more.

Dawn of the dead. I am looking forward to another round of brain drain in the UK as people who pay for all these leeches (benefit scroungers, police, quango lords) decide enough is enough and bogger off.
8

Dawn of the dead,

28/01/2008 02:22:15
How does the mind of a Policeman work.

"Let me see, I've got an EXTRA £50 Million pounds here... should I use it to stop rape, murder, abuse, intimidation at personal risk to MY safety OR should I hide down some quiet country road and eat a sandwhich and use the money to retire as "disabled" when I'm 40."
9

forbes,

edinburgh 28/01/2008 03:09:48
think jingling georgie has got it wrong
polis pay 11 per cent of their wages for their pension and deserve it after 30 years of dealing with idiots.


10

forbes,

edinburgh 28/01/2008 03:13:40
sorry but where has it been reported that police officers are sitting eating burgers all day?
11

forbes,

edinburgh 28/01/2008 03:19:01
to dawn of the dead -

if you can be bothered to read this why don't you go to your local police station and ask to go out on patrol for a day. surely if all the media companys can do it lothian and borders police would be overjoyed to let such a cynic as you know what goes on?????
12

donald,

glasgow 28/01/2008 06:46:44
It's not true they were eating burgers. It wis dougnuts m'lord.
13

Encephalon,

28/01/2008 06:57:11
#9 "polis pay 11 per cent of their wages for their pension" - that 11% does not even begin to cover a fraction of the cost-eg you would need to have 500,000 pounds in the bank to generate 25,000 annual income at current interest rates.

Putting aside the question of whether our police are actually "value for money"- for a minute-the real issue is the incredibly generous pensions that those in the public sector enjoy compared to the rest of us and how it is funded. The defined benefit schemes eg 2/3 of final salary are a distant memory for those in the private sector who are faced with continual job uncertainty and very little in the way of pensions.
As #1 suggests there needs to be radical change in the whole terms&conditions of public sector workers.



14

conservative,

Fife 28/01/2008 07:47:55
All public service (now was there ever such a misnomer?) pensions should be reviewed urgently. We already know the plans for deferral of the state pension but these loafers still retire early on a fat pension out of my pocket. Most then go on to take 2nd jobs and stioll draw their full pension.

It's only fair that the money should go to fund the pensions and as a result they should have to work longer hours and more years.
15

Highlander53,

Aberdeen 28/01/2008 07:57:09
I think the police do a reasonable job - sometimes they're not the brightest - but we didn't employ the brightest. The entrance exam was posted in the "Early Times" which was a very good childrens newspaper in the 80's - and most 11 year old passed.
Yes, the point is - we, the taxpayers can't afford to keep up the terms and conditions promised to the public sector. We will need to put their pension in the hands of others - that's the harsh reality. The trouble is the politicains won't do it because they want to feather their own nests with big pensions.
16

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 28/01/2008 08:12:04
#6 Dawn of the Dead

Your lack of originality indicates that laziness and stupidity are not confined to the police. Can't comment about the fatness but I'm making a fair assumption......
17

paulr,

edinburgh 28/01/2008 08:26:28
The so called royal and VIP visitors should be made to pay for the security, no special security is put on to protect the people of scotland.
Football and Rugby clubs have to pay for a police presence at matches so why should our tax money be used to pamper the egos of these so called vips and prasitic royals?
18

paulr,

edinburgh 28/01/2008 08:28:55
#6 #7 #8 'dawn of the brain dead' more like, how long have you been out of jail?
19

Beergut,

Embra 28/01/2008 09:03:52
I get the definite impression there are one or two here unhappy with our polis but the nub of the problem here is not whether the polis hide away eating hamburgers - it is the fact that their pension providers have systematically squandered whatever provision there should have been over the years and are now expecting the taxpayer to come up with the money once again. What is it with government/local authority that they get away with this time and again? Any of their employees paying into a pension should have the funds ring-fenced and any councillors etc. dipping into that money to fund their extravagance should get the jail!
20

gwp,

Glasgow 28/01/2008 09:13:37
I am surprised ,the councillors, ministers and powers that be who manage the fund appear to have been caught out - I assume that 30 years is not long enough to make appropriate plans - or did they misplay the invested cash on the stock markets trying for a short term quick profit?
21

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 28/01/2008 09:15:34
#1 Well said. You covered the most important points in a very sensible manner. The fact that we are all living longer is creating its own problems with the pension industry, but this also means that it is utterly unrealistic for anyone to be able to retire at 50 on full pension. As the laughably termed 'public services' simply extract the cash for their fat pensions from the taxpayer, the rest of the population is being told they will have to work longer before the pathetic state pension is payable. All of this is creating an even wider gap in our society between the haves and the have nots. One of the most obvious signs of rampant greed in the public sector is the salaries now demanded by council chief executives, many of whom are paid more than the prime minister. We really have reached a situation where the tail is now wagging the dog.
22

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 28/01/2008 09:24:26
#18 I agree with your comments about the cost of security for the royals. I was horrified to read recently that the two young globe-trotting daughters of Sarah Ferguson and her golfing husband cost the country over half-a-million pounds pa in security. This is blatant nonsense and should be paid for by the royals who don't seem to be short of a bob or two.
23

JayJay,

Right here 28/01/2008 09:38:01
I have been saying on these boards for some months now that public sector pension provision, along with redundancy settlements, are issues that must be addressed by the Government before we as a country are forced into liquidation. If you get a minute, just check the pension notes to your local authority accounts (they are all available on line). The word "shortfall" tends to feature quite a lot. The numbers involved, across the UK, are quite mind boggling.
Brown launched a pension raid that all but crippled private sector pensions. He sat on his hands as employers, who exploited pension funds for their own ends, changed the rules of their pensions, closed them off to new entrants etc.
Meanwhile, its business as usual in the public sector. The situation at the upper end of these organisations, and indeed with MSPs, is quite outrageous. Turnips who would be unemployable anywhere else, explaining their vast salaries and conditions of service as "rates required to attract the best". As if!
If any public servant, including the police, would like to toddle in to a Standard Life office today and ask them how much, per month, they'd need to pay to secure a pension equivalent to the one they have, I feel certain they would turn white with shock. 11% of salary doesn't come close.
If I had the means to withhold my taxes over this issue I would. Why should we private sector mugs be told to get working, into your seventies if necessary, whilst the public servants can summer in Spain from 60 onwards on a pension I have funded. It is, and remains, an outrage.
24

GP,

28/01/2008 09:44:54
9# 11% comes nowhere near poaying for the pension ask any financial expert.

11# what local stations have policemen in them?
25

GP,

28/01/2008 09:46:11
24# you and those like you have got it wrong. Thoise of us who are paying for all these pensions should demand equal rights not knock them. Wake up and demand equallity.
26

JayJay,

Right here 28/01/2008 10:00:10
#26
I am wide awake!
I can demand equality all I like, but the sad fact remains that these sort of pensions are simply not affordable. Should I wish to achieve pension parity with the public sector, it would cost me £1,200 per month. I do not think many could afford that.
It is of course quite a different scenario if we were to have politicians who did not seem so determined to waste the money we currently pay in taxes. Olympics, Domes, Parliament buildings, NHS computers etc etc don't come cheap.
27

pen371,

28/01/2008 10:03:42
I AM A FIREFIGHTER , AND OUR CONDITIONS OF SERVICE AND PENSION HAVE CHANGED , WE NOW PAY 8.5% INTO OUR PENSION SCHEME AND HAVE TO WORK UNTIL WE ARE 60, OUR PENSION IS NOW AN AVERAGE EARNINGS OVER OUR YEARS OF SERVICE RATHER THAN THE THE BEST YEARS WAGE IN OUR FINAL COUPLE OF YEARS .AND BEFORE ANYONE STARTS TO COMMENT ABOUT OUR CONDITIONS , WE NOW KNOCK ON DOORS TO FIT FREE SMOKE DETECTORS TO ANYONE WHO WANTS THEM AND GIVE FIRE SAFETY ADVICE OUR INCIDENTS OF FIRE HAVE GONE DOWN AS A RESULT AND A FEW LIVES HAVE BEEN SAVED BECAUSE OF IT, ALSO WOULD YOU REALLY WANT A 65 YEAR OLD FIREFIGHTER TO RESCUE YOU ??
28

GP,

28/01/2008 10:06:45
27# you beat your own arguement.
It's about choices. We either spend money on London Olympics and wars and nuclear arms or alternatively we can ALL receive a decent pension and improved social facilties.
Easy choice for me.
29

GP,

28/01/2008 10:07:44
28# I am glad to see that as a burden on society you are now contributing in some small way.
Thanks.
30

ddmc,

28/01/2008 10:25:59
#28 yes your right i probably wouldnt want a 65 yo firefighter to rescue me unless he had passed his fitness tests. But whats to stop them knocking on doors, fitting detectors & most importantly passing on their wealth of knowledge to younger recruits ?. They could also work in the emergency call centres. Same goes for the police, why dont the older coppers do the paperwork we are so often reminded about, serving warrants & call center work. I don't expect these older officers to still be pounding the beat unless they want to, but there are plenty other roles for them to do.
31

Dawn of the dead,

28/01/2008 10:29:05
#28

Do the firefighters fit these free detectors out of money from their own pockets? Do they fit them in their free time.

You are symptomatic of the public sector. Do you want a tickertape parade for doing your job? And doing that job with the resources the people pay for?

You do an important job, granted. Your skills are a tremendous asset and your profession deserves respect - no doubt about it. But asking for a parade for turning up to work and doing the jobs your bosses (the UK public) pay you to do is not on.
32

AJ Fife,

28/01/2008 10:38:12
Yet another very contrived and anti-SNP story from the Scotsman - true to form!
33

pen371,

28/01/2008 10:51:57
#32 we are not expecting a " tickertape parade " for doing our job , i was just making people aware of a few things that they might not have realised regarding the public sector .
34

Albawolf,

St Andrews 28/01/2008 11:25:30
Northern Consb for once have it right..........

Protect & Serve

Protect their pensions
Serve there needs.............

It's Scotland's fault
No one asks for value for money in Public Sector contracts........
Till that is standard practice this stupidity will continue....

At some point the tax-payer will break and then it will get very ugly indeed........


35

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 28/01/2008 13:46:32
#35 Albawolf

I take it you signed up to conditions of service when you started your job and that you have made your own pension provision? If your employer or pension provider decided to change your conditions to your detriment, I take it you would just roll over and take it without comment? Those in the public service have taken on jobs with the pensions as part of their condituions of employment, what's wrong with them defending them?
36

Jimmymac,

DUNDEE 28/01/2008 14:06:28
It is important to realise bthat this pensions crisis has been created by succesive government policy. Most public sector pensions including police and fire service have and never have had a pension fund. The problem is that for generations these pension scheme contributions produced huge surpluses which the treasury used to their ends. They never had the foresight to see that this might change as retired pensioners lived longer. Now it has come home to roost and suddenly its the scheme beneficiaries fault and despite having overcontributed for all these years they are now expected to bear the brunt of things having gone askew. Government should find a way ofhonouring their side of the contract. There are many choices on how we spend money - some less honourable than others.
37

JG,

Fife 28/01/2008 14:07:23
#31 ddmc
So what other jobs will you have these older cops do? Call centres? Civilianised! Warrant service? Civilianised! Paperwork? Civilianised!

Some of the other posters can generalise about "fat, burger/doughnut eating cops" but there are no more fatties in that job than there are in most others. I have seen fat nurses, fat fireman and (heaven forfend!) fat politicians! It's true the pension situation is a problem but there have been 30 years to come up with a solution and NO-ONE HAS! Whose fault is that? The cop who joined up for whatever reason knowing he would retire after 30 years or the people who also knew that and did nothing?
38

GP,

28/01/2008 14:41:34
37# allow me to correct your misguidance whether deliverate or not.
The police started paying into their pension fund relatively recently and there was no fund before this.
The firemen etc. also very recently started contributing there being no fund prior to this. The civil servants who have always contributed ie. those on small salaries their contribution being acceptance of a lower than private sector equivalent role salary, has had funds. Local government neglected to have pension funds deciding it better to pay as you go, no doubt based on the taxpayer cannot refuse syndrome, mentallity.

So your thread is completely wrong when you state that for generations these funds, becasue these funds have not existed for generations.
39

ddmc,

28/01/2008 15:47:10
#38 I would uncivilianise these jobs & give them back to the cops, why should cops who are no longer fit for active duty be forced out. Most of them will have something to contribute without having the ability to pound the beat or run 100m.
40

I still don't believe it !,

28/01/2008 16:13:10
#39 You are totally wrong.Police officers have paid pension contributions for many many years, and there's nothing recent about it.Jimmymac is spot on!
For the benefit of the hard of understanding, there IS no pension fund, there never WAS a pension fund. Pension contributions made by police officers are paid straight back out again as pensions to retired officers. It's always been this way, not because the police decided that suited them best but because that's how the ruling government at the time decided it should be.
This day has always been going to dawn.When the Edmund Davies agreement came into force almost 30 years ago and large numbers joined the police it was obvious that those same people would all retire within a very short time scale. Successive governments have put it in the 'too hard to sort out' pile for years so there's no point in hand wringing now!
It's not at all like Mr Maxwell treating pension funds like his personal piggy bank;Theres no criminality or mismanagement of funds by police managers or local authorities. The responsibility for this lies with national government, both Labour and Tory, who chose to do nothing.
41

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 28/01/2008 19:18:19
To all new publice service recruits:

Pension funds may fall as well as rise. In the event of a fall you will be required to supplement the difference to secure your own pension.

Is that too simple?
42

ALL FOR ONE,

CLACKMANNANSHIRE 28/01/2008 19:44:29
Regarding Jingling Geordie and Dawn of the "Brain" Dead with smart alec comments about such as golden handshakes and working till 65 or 70. We the police may receive what appear to be handsome pensions unfortunately most, unless they have been hiding in cupboards and piloting desks at HQ unfortunately of which there are quite a few, don't live very long to see much of our pensions. In the last couple of years two colleagues died 10 years and 6 months prior to retirement. Another only managed a year into retirement before dying. So the great British public can be assured that they are getting worth for all their taxes. Please remeber the Police as do all the emergency services pay taxes also!

With regards to a couple of comments above, a couple are obviously from Trumpton, whether Pugh, Drew, Barney or McGrew I don't know. This lot whilst occassionally facing danger spend all their nightshifts sleeping, always seem to be playing volley ball when I pass the local station or are 4 days on followed by 4 days off during which time ususally working at another job. To give an idea of how busy they usually are on occassion there are no calls over the entirity of Scotland during the night. The Police are expected to attend all emergency calls. If a police car passes a house on fire they are expected to stop and render assistance. If a fire tender passes a fight in the street they will pull up the hems of their skirts and run away! The foregoing will have them sounding their bells but the numpties above have solicited this response and the truth always hurts as they say.
43

jdships,

Edinburgh 28/01/2008 21:43:51
46 ALL FOR ONE

You are trying to defend the indefensible methinks.
" unfortunately of which there are quite a few, don't live very long to see much of our pensions. In the last couple of years two colleagues died 10 years and 6 months prior to retirement. Another only managed a year into retirement before dying. "
As do thousands of non police workers !!!!!
That's life I'm afraid - little to do with the job.
I have five ex police officer friends who all retired at 50/55 and immediatly went out and got another job.
All are now over 70 and still alive !!
One a retired Chief Super ( age 85) sums up perfectly , in my book, the present police force .
" They are trained to hide behind the uniform and the rule book - this allows them to sidestep awkward situations "

Public sector requires overhaul from top to bottom - one thing Brown won't attempt that's for sure
44

Miss Jean Brodie,

28/01/2008 22:05:29
‘Police chiefs in Edinburgh last year hailed two new deals that resulted in an extra £600,000 being paid to the local force to provide dedicated officers to meet the heightened terrorist threat at Edinburgh airport’

yer kiddin’ - they canny tell if rendition flights went throo the airport, and if ye were tae cut a hole in the airport northern perimeter fence - ye cood be in, hold an all nighter rave, and be oot afore security kent ye were ther - c’mon, security, schmoority!
45

JG,

Fife 28/01/2008 22:43:01
#40 ddmc
That's fine, in theory. So how do you go about that? Gradually, as the civilians (all with the right to strike, by the way) retire at 60/65? In one fell swoop with the repercussions THAT would bring (see aforesaid strike comment)?
46

John1,

Stirling 28/01/2008 23:55:30
Gordon Brown raided private sector pensions because he knew he could get away with it. He did not raid the Public Sector pensions because Public Sector employees were organised i.e. had Unions to protect them, and were probably Labour voters. One class of people has to work to 70 to get a small pension, another class, allegedly employed by the first class, can retire at 50/60 on a generous pension, mostly funded by the first class. All this by decree of Gordon Brown and his ilk. does this sound equitable? What can the productive people do about it? Hint: My son in law emigrateed to New Zealand three years ago, taking my daughter and grandchildren with him. Many productive people are doing the same thing. Could these details be related? How long before the crash comes? Who will pay the taxes to support Public Sector employees then??

 

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