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Election update: Brown vows to 'learn lessons' after poll drubbing



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Published Date: 02 May 2008
A CHASTENED Gordon Brown vowed today to "learn the lessons" after crashing to a disastrous defeat in his first electoral test as Prime Minister.
With Labour facing its worst set of council election results in four decades, Mr Brown admitted that it had been a "bad night" for the party.
Projections of its share of the national vote slumped to 24%, trailing behind the Liberal Democrats, as scores of Labour councillors across England and Wales lost their seats.

Meanwhile, a jubilant David Cameron celebrated a night of sweeping gains with a whirlwind tour of the scenes of some of the Tories' most significant triumphs.

The Conservative leader – who saw his party's projected share of the national vote rise to 44% – said it had been a "vote of positive confidence" for his party on the road back to power at Westminster.

In Downing Street, Mr Brown blamed the "testing" economic conditions for the Labour's poor performance which drew comparisons with the drubbing John Major's Tories suffered in 1995, two years before their landslide General Election defeat.

"It's clear to me that this has been a disappointing night, indeed a bad night, for Labour," the Prime Minister told reporters.

"I said I was going to listen and lead. We are in difficult economic circumstances. I think people accept that we're going through some of the most challenging times we've seen in many years.

"The test of leadership is not what happens in a period of success but what happens in difficult circumstances."

Meantime, Tory hopes of crowning their night of success with a triumph in London rose after one bookmaker, Paddy Power, announced it was paying out on a Boris Johnson victory, hours before the count was completed.

Mr Cameron said it was a "big moment" for his party, which now had the chance to demonstrate that it was ready for government.

"I think these results are not just a vote against Gordon Brown and his Government. I think they are a vote of positive confidence in the Conservative Party," he said,

"I think this is a very big moment for the Conservative Party, but I don't want anyone to think that we would deserve to win an election just on the back of a failing Government.

"I want us to really prove to people that we can make the changes they want to see. That's what I'm going to devote myself and my party to doing over the next few months."

With almost all the results in, apart from London, Labour had suffered a net loss of 298 councillors – worse than the gloomiest pre-poll predictions – and control of eight councils.

Labour was hit particularly hard in its Welsh heartlands, losing Blaenau Gwent, Merthyr Tydfil, Torfaen, Caerphilly and Flintshire.
It also lost Wolverhampton, Hartlepool and Reading – which had been its last bastion outside London in the South East. There was however the consolation of regaining nearby Slough from no overall control.

The Conservatives, in contrast, gained 254 councillors and 12 councils.
More importantly for Mr Cameron's prospects of gaining No 10, the Tories showed they were able to win across the country with gains from Southampton to North Tyneside. Other notable gains included Bury in the North West and Nuneaton and Bedworth in the Midlands which they took directly from Labour.

The Liberal Democrats, in contrast, were only able to make limited gains, despite Labour's evident unpopularity. Overall they picked up 28 more councillors and one authority.

The full article contains 586 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 May 2008 6:36 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Mike555,

02/05/2008 03:05:09
Of course Gordon will say "This is just a mid party minor blip and its not my fault as I am always listening to my friends."

Remember, GB robbed the private pensions of hard working and honorable taxpaying millions as well.

This man does not live on the same planet as the rest of us and he does not listen to the common man.

Also when the price of fuel rises Gordon loves this as he gets 70% of any rise, - Lovely Jubbly says GB and now he wants to abolish the poorest 10P tax band give the proceeds to the rich so that they can continue to drive their huge 4x4's.

Get Rid
2

,

02/05/2008 03:30:53
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3

Guga II,

Rockall 02/05/2008 04:31:24
Excellent news. Maggie Broon and the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party have been given a well deserved gubbing by the English and Welsh. Maybe his "listening" government, with its "ethical" foreign policy will actually try to listen to people, and may actually try and find some morals; though I doubt it.

We await the palace coup, when the self-professed "North Briton", complete with his elocution lessons to get rid of his Scottish accent, gets overthrown as leader of this sleaze and corruption ridden party.
4

W Smith,

Middle East 02/05/2008 04:52:17
Gordon Brown - the eight trillion dollar man.

Yep, our Gordon spent £4 trillion as Chancellor and turned a surplus inherited from the Tories into a deficit.

Oh the genius!

Like the dopey lottery winner who manages to spend all their winnings within a couple of years so our Gordon has managed to squander trillions during a world wide economic boom.

Now the UK may have to face a sluggish world economy without having saved one penny during the good times.

GREAT! WELL DONE GORDON THE 'PRUDENT' CHANCELLOR!

According to George Osborne, the Tory Shadow Chancellor, there is only three other major countries in the world that have a worse budget deficit - Hungary, Egypt and Pakistan.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3511865.ece

If this is true why doesn't The Scotsman print these facts?

Oh .. I remember now... this is a Labour supporting newspaper that would rather talk about windpower, 'green' issues and 'human rights'.
5

Damy Ruby,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 06:02:46
#1 Mike

Browns spin has already said its mid term blues.

Absolute crap, we all hate you Brown, you stole our pensions and sold our gold. You are by no means a world statesman's more a small minded frustrated Fifer with a great chip on your shoulder. Resign today and take Darling with you into obscurity...........PLEASE!
6

Damy Ruby,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 06:40:17
When was the last time Blair, Brown, Darling, Harman, Straw and the rest of them actually had to buy a gallon of petrol at the pumps. What other industry would allow daily allowance of 250 quid without receipts. The whole thing stinks.
7

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 07:23:03
I like the Hootsmon's take on it...no DISASTER FOR LABOUR headlines???? Shurely shome mishtake?

Hope they have a supply of mobile phones for Gordo.

What's that I hear? Why, it's the sound of Independence coming over the hill to embrace us. Not long now. :-)
8

Richard M,

Scottish Raj 02/05/2008 07:31:05
Groan, they're on the way back again. Has everybody forgotten just how awful the Tories were?
9

Geoff,

sa 02/05/2008 07:51:14
9 Richard M-seriously Richard,dont u think its about time that you dropped some of those old predjudices and acknowledged how different the Tories of 2008 are from the Conservatives of old? In reality there is little to seperate them from Nu Labour policy wise. Nu Labour have crumbled because they have been in power for too long and the electorate always tire of this situation. In addition,decent man though he is, GB is a poor PM and the worldwide economic malaise would impact negatively on any imcumbent.
British Politics has moved to an amorphous centre-old cliches centred around cloth caps versus top hats no longer really apply
10

Black Five,

edinburgh 02/05/2008 08:18:40
This discredited bunch are on their way and the sooner the better.Just wait till you hear the screams from the uneducated who didn`t realise the implication of the 10p tax and don`t now realisewhat they will pay
when the road tax escalator kicks in next year.I`ve got a wee Honda which has ommisions rated of 205.That wee car will carry a £300 road tax come next April.If you buy a new modest family car ,say a Ford Focus you will be face with a first year`s tax of around £700.Next year will cost you around £230.I can hear the screams now.Time to go Labour you`ve been caught out for what you are.A greedy tax gobbling shower who spend money on a bunch of single parents ,the work shy and do not reward anyone who tries to make a go of it.Disgraceful.
11

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 08:28:48
Bad night for labour good night for all unionists throughout England and wales.

"Plaid MP Elfyn Llwyd MP said of the Gwynedd results: "It's not been good but it's not been a disaster."It's been an evening of kicking Plaid"

Not so good for Nationalists...........snp next
12

pehman,

sussex 02/05/2008 08:29:06
How long will it take brown to congratulate boris on his win in london, or are we in for another show of petulence
13

oder,

Scotland 02/05/2008 08:29:17
have a nice day Gordon! the sun is shining in Scotland today.
14

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 08:29:17
Bring back Michael Foot, teeheehee.
15

pehman,

sussex 02/05/2008 08:32:14
12 nikos,

Sad, but thats what PC get for union with wlab
16

Xena - Warrior Princess,

02/05/2008 08:33:25
Oh dear Gordon, a classic case of "be careful what you wish for" you just might get it! My son (an apprentice) earning £2.30 (or roundabout that)an hour, now pays tax, he's not best pleased to say the least. Labour are now only p/ssing off voters now but the future ones as well. And as for the tax on fuel in the current circumstances, he should knock a few pounds off what the treasury are earning.
17

SS,

02/05/2008 08:34:25
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye....

Cheerio Gordon et al.
18

donald,

glasgow 02/05/2008 08:36:06
Gordon Brown went to London Town
With his Union Jack shorts hanging down.
Wendy stayed at home to be a clown,
Wearing her Union Jack wedding see through gown.
19

Calum Crubag,

02/05/2008 08:39:34
Highland Mighty tells me that it's not true. Labour were magnificient and are well on course to save the union.

But they promise "to listen" this time. Just like the last. Just like Wendy.
20

Marian,

02/05/2008 08:49:14
Hopefully these results signal the end for what has been the monumental disaster of Blair/Brown and their New Labour experiment on the UK.
21

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 08:49:50
#16 pehman

As long as the 'Union' has the support of the majority elected political parties all else pales into insignificance.

And in a nascent conservative and unionist party the snp will meet an implacable foe in defence of the 'Union'.

not reliant on scottish labour MPs
22

Red Tower,

Dunoon 02/05/2008 08:51:11
I join in the jubilation at New Labour being given a drubbing. However this has been achieved on the basis of Cameron securing 15% of the vote of the total electorate. As one committed to democracy I personally find this profoundly depressing. How can we as voters make any difference? Why should we bother to vote? The system is so loaded against change.

In the not too far distant future our choice will be to stick to a corrupt government or vote for one led by a political lightweight. And it should be remembered that this lightweight will be peddling virtually identical policies.

Blair , Brown and Cameron are all Thatcher's children.

And
23

,

02/05/2008 08:53:28
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24

donald,

glasgow 02/05/2008 08:54:02
Wendy Alexander she stayed at home
To be Gordon Broon's back yard Garden Gnome.
Jackie Baiiey she stayed at home
To be North Britain's Millennium Dome.

Lord of the Lies he tried to Roam
To get double pay for his London Home.
Off at the mouth he did foam
For Foulkes sake he wisnae worth a bone.
25

,

02/05/2008 09:00:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 09:01:23
Before anyone gets too excited, the BBC explained this morning that because of the massive numbers of English and Welsh Local Authorities, only ONE THIRD of them went to the polls yesterday.

However well the Tories did in Southern England and no matter the projected high number of probable gains there in the next General Election, with the exception of Bury, a small satellite town of Greater Manchester, they hardly made in progress in the North of England where in some places the Lib-Dems split the Labour/Tory vote.

It has been a disaster for New Labour but Gordon Brown still has two years before he needs to call an election.



27

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 09:04:50
Harriet Harman has stated that Labour have to "listen" to people. You always know when a party is in trouble - they start making trite comments such as this. I do not wish to appear to be condescending but the "people" tend to be fickle with short memories. Labour came to power in 1997 and stated that they would, initially, adhere to the Tories expenditure plans. Then in the 2001 election campaign they were criticised for not spending enough on public services. They responded and Gordon Brown started pouring £billions more into the black hole of public expenditure. To do so he has had to find ever more methods of raising taxation and had to increase debt. Now the poultry are returning to their domain. What has been the benefit? Are the "people" now hugely satisfied with their more expensive public services?
28

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 09:06:08
26 Fraudulent

Thanks for taking time out to spam us with your bigotted and irrational rant, very typical of an SNP voter so not entirely unexpected, but unwelcome all the same.
29

morris,

edinburgh 02/05/2008 09:06:27
12
The performance of Plaid has no more bearing upon the performance of the SNP than the performance of Labour does on the Liberals.Only an idiot could think that it does.
I can understand your desire to find something positive from Gordons butt kicking,but I cannot understand your joy at total failure!
The simple fact is Labour are washed up, and apart from the one party state imbeciles ,everybody knows it.Most Scots will realise beyond any possible doubt LABOUR CANNOT POSSIBLY RETAIN POWER.Anybody who backs a lame horse needs his head examined!
You on the other hand elected four successive Tory governments followed by Tony B liar and Maggie Broon
We already know what an examination of your head would reveal! NOTHING!
30

conservative,

02/05/2008 09:12:41
Hardly surprising.
Both my wife and I are now paying more income tax on our pensions than last year. Our pensions went up by a few % while our food bill at Asda has rocketed by more than 10% in the last year. Not that I mind going without to help out our poor immigrant population ;o(
31

SW,

P&K 02/05/2008 09:14:42
Come brothers and sisters throughout the land
Get rid of the man who just won’t understand
That his ‘British’ people are beyond his command
Things are rapidly changing
And Make Scotland free from his fat clunking hand
Oh the times they are a changing

With apologies to Bob Dylan
32

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 09:22:56
30 Morris
I am not defending Gorrdon Brown nor Maggie Thatcher but what is the point of referring to "Maggie Broon" It may be a conveniently cheap jibe but anybody who equates the policies enacted by these two must have a seriously impaired perception of economic issues.
33

Dbxsteve,

West Kilbride 02/05/2008 09:26:29
#4 Oh .. I remember now... this is a Labour supporting newspaper that would rather talk about windpower, 'green' issues and 'human rights'.

It always amuses me how days like today bring out the crazed right wing neanderthals.

Our Middle East correspondent W. Smith, reporting from his Al Qaeda bunker, manages not only to get every fact in his comment wrong but more worryingly thinks that reporting on Green Issues and human rights is in some way wrong...thank God we've managed to get some of the right wing extremists out of the country.

Hey, W Smith, just carry on driving your fuel guzzling 4x4 into the desert where you can bury your head in the sand and pretend that Global climate change and human rights atrocities are not happening.

34

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 09:27:50
34 ExpatNI

Crap isn't a swear word so not blocked. It is derived from Thomas Crapper, despite the urban legend, Crapper did not invent the flush toilet (the myth assisted by his surname). However, Crapper did much to increase its popularity and came up with some related inventions. He was noted for the quality of his products and received several Royal Warrants.

35

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 02/05/2008 09:27:51
Very satisfying to watch the BBC programme reporting on the elections last night and to see the look on Tessa Jowell's face becoming more and more crestfallen as the night went on.

Labour must now recognise that Gordon is an enormous electoral liability, but with the good kicking they got last night we really need him to be around for a bit longer so that when he does finally call a general election Labour will be in the long grass for quite a while to come. A bit like Wendy's "role" in Scotland. Her latest FMQ appearance ranking as utter farce.

And no one deserves such rich punishment than Gordon Brown whose tax and spend regime is making this country look more third-world by the week. Tony has his revenge but he was part and parcel of the whole stinking pile.
36

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 09:33:23
According to Wendy, Brown is going to start listening to the electorate. I remember Blair promising that during the 2005 election campaign. as soon as he got the election out of the way he simply carried on as normal. Brown would do the same, except he is not going to survive (politically) the next election.
37

Anglofile,

02/05/2008 09:33:35
Gordy B with a change of direction?

How about a "long walk of a short Kirkcaldy pier"?
38

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 02/05/2008 09:57:45
24 Alfred E. Neuman

That comment should be struck off. I can't believe even you believe that pile of ordure. If you do, it's no wonder some of your posts are so unintelligble. You are clearly off your head man. Bordering on the pyschotic.
39

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 02/05/2008 10:02:01
I can't say I don't feel sorry for Gordon Brown, but I don't feel sorry for any of his cabinet. Especially not Des after watching him on Question Time last night. His response regarding the scrapping of the 10p tax was a masterpiece in how to shoot yourself in the foot with a straight face. "We were wrong, we didn't foresee the economic changes a-coming, our policy was wrong because we got it all hopelessly wrong" was virtually what he said!

I'm all for politicians telling the truth, but this was as close to "Mea culpa! Sack me!" as you could get.
40

Boggle fey the Bog,

02/05/2008 10:11:00
10 Geoff,sa 02/05/2008 07:51:14

Morning Geoff, how are things in SA?
I agree with your sentiment, that not much, separates Nu Labour/Owld Torie, with New Torie/Owld Snatcherites.

That is the problem they are both right wing Thatcherite Parties, hell bent on destroying the 'ordinary people' of this fair land.

Although Cameron is on a high, when asked about his policies if he was in power, he avoids answering the question.
e.g. on this recent attack on the poorest people in our country, the removal of the 10p tax rate, Cameron was asked if he would 're-instate' it if he was in power, and man he wriggled like a trout on a hook, and came up with a wishy washy, 'I'm not going to set out our tax policies before we are in power, or words to that effect.

So no prizes there for guessing that Cameron is just as bad as Broon, the man has no policies, save getting into 'power'.

If you really want to see 'cloth cap v top hat' you need look no further than the New Torie/Old Snatcher Party, D Cameron (Eton), B. Johnson (Eton), G.G. Osborne (St. Pauls School) O. Letwin (Eton), H. Swire (Eton), A Mitchell (Rugby) A Duncan (Merchant Taylor's School) ,Lord Strathclyde (Wellington School), and so it goes on

Not many 'cloth caps' there is there? Looks like a 'jobs for the boys' scenario.

I can't see any of them giving a fig for the welfare of the 'ordinary citizen', they are just a bunch of 'Yahoo Henrys' out to feather their own nests.
41

Boggle fey the Bog,

02/05/2008 10:15:57
24 Alfred E. Neuman,02/05/2008 08:53:28

Good morning Alfie me Owld son, ah see yer still no takin yer tablets, ye knaw ye should, it's guid fur ye.
Aww go on tak them, ye knaw it maks sense.

What a load of keech you spout man, you really do need help.
42

John south of Soutra,

02/05/2008 10:25:36
24 Alfred E. Neuman

You have really surpassed yourself today comparing the SNP with the BNP, no wonder your posts are the subject of ridicule.
43

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 02/05/2008 10:27:08
43

He certainly needs some sort of medication. Or maybe it's his eyesight... I see no BNP gains??? The man sees bogeymen everywhere! Maybe it's the booze...
44

eric,

Lothian 02/05/2008 10:28:15
Snigger ,10 more yrs for SNP
45

Teamdroid,

02/05/2008 10:38:14
#24 - hey Alfred, pop quiz question for you. Currently Scotland has one Muslim MSP. Which party is he a member of?

Care to withdraw your pathetic slur? I don't think anyone should report it or try to get it censored as it shines a light on the quality of debate you serve up.
46

Teamdroid,

02/05/2008 10:42:30
#47 - BBC is currently showing Plaid Cymru as net UP 8 councillors. Interesting "reaction against", that.

Gwynedd aside, they seem to be doing OK.
47

shivago8,

livingston 02/05/2008 10:42:47
Labour--they are a dejected and soon to be an ejected race.
They have ruined this country and turned it into a banana and laughable republic.
Britain will never be the same again,where,s ma passport,am off.oot o this mess
48

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 10:45:03
48 Teamdroid

Why are you banging on about Muslims? No-one is talking about that but you.

The SNP want to stop sharing resources with the English because they believe they are the rightful "indigenious" and ancient race that occupies Scotland.

This is Nationalism, the BNP have a very nationalist outlook as well, they wish to stop sharing resources with other countries too.

What is the difference in the basic outlook? I agree that the BNP are racist thugs, but that's not the point.
49

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/05/2008 10:45:12
"a proud doonhamer,Dumfries 02/05/2008 03:30:53
Current popular vote has Tories at 43%, LidDems second at 25% and Labour third at 24%.

Labour drops to lowest popular vote in recent memory."

Glad you said popular vote and not national vote as some have tried to porttary this. It isn't a national vote as it was not across the whole country (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/local_council/08/map/html/map.stm).

That being said there are positives and negatives for all parties.

The only positive I can see for Labour is that their northern heartlands have still held fast. the big negatives - not just the numbers polled - has to be the poor performance thus far in Wales and the South. Results in the English Midlands are still patchy. Brown has to shift policy if he is to have any chance of being elected. Interestingly enough, Nick Robinson (of the BBC) thinks there is no appetite for a leadership election - I'd disgaree. if labour loses the London mayor election and the Crewe & Nantwich by-election the pressure for him to go will increase.

The Lib Dems will be happy to have gained not lost seats as predicted but are bound to be disappointed that they have not pushed their share of the vote further.

Undoubtedly a good night for the Tories - and it could get better for them if Johnson wins the London Mayor election as polls have been predicting. The negatives for them - they still cannot make inroads into urban constituencies - either Labour or Liberal. Moreover, there must be a nagging doubt in Cameron's head that they have been here before. It should be remembered that when these seats were last up for election in 2004 Labour polled just 26% (only 2% more than yesterday) yet came back to win the election.

In addition - as they are now seen more likely to form the next government their policies (or lack of them) is going to be more and more open to scrutiny. They are going to have to spell out how they would handle the econ
50

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/05/2008 10:45:50
(continued)

In addition - as they are now seen more likely to form the next government their policies (or lack of them) is going to be more and more open to scrutiny. They are going to have to spell out how they would handle the economy any differently from Labour - because as it stands, despite their protestations, the main 3 parties economic policies are virtually identical.
51

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 10:51:00
Excellent news!! The best news I've had for 11 years!

Now all we need to do is repeat the performance for the General Election---which Brown should call NOW, if he has any integrity at all, which he does not.

Get this labour rubbish out of power now.
52

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 10:51:27
47. AM2, awwwh bless! On the day that newspapers report on Wendy Alexander being pasted by Nicola Sturgeon at FMQs, Scottish businesses now 40% more in favour of independence due to the impressive performance of an SNP government, and with Labour in melt-down, you find a wee scrap of comfort in an inaccurate reference to Plaid Cymru, who at present have a net gain of 8 seats.

Must be dreadfully depressing being a unionist, but even for you this seems a tad desperate?
53

BIG EYE,

Paisley 02/05/2008 10:54:24
Come on now, let's be fair after all this is the man who abolished BOOM and BUST.

We now have STAGNATION AND BUST!

Well done Gordon Brown your award is awaiting you at the next elections in Scotland.
54

Queen D,

Glasgow 02/05/2008 10:56:29
I think you don't know much about specific Tory policy because so many of their previous ones have been stolen by Labour.
I think they'll keep their cards very close to their chests for some time yet!
That boy Alfred is supposedly a student, one wonders what possible course he could be on.
he obviously enjoys attention and you all respond.
Ignore!
In fact ignore ALL posters who try to introduce a racist argument.
Let them print what they like but DO NOT RESPOND.
55

Geoff,

sa 02/05/2008 10:58:05
42 Boggle the Fey-Howyra doin Boggle! Weather mixed here in Durbs!Yes obviously there are residual 'top hats' in the tory party but the point I was trying to make is that old caricatures are no longer entirely valid. Sadly, the 'ordinary' man seems to lose out everywhere-dont know what the answer is to that. Oh that we could achieve a just society with a fairer spread of the worlds wealth-again sadly, many socialist warriors have been voted in to power only to dissappoint. George Orwells take on power and its knack of corrupting us all,is depressingly, constantly confirmed.
I am an issues rather than party man altho I was brought up as a true blue tory from a ridiculously early age.One mellows as one gets older.
56

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 10:58:07
57 Ayrshire Scot

You are an SNP voter so naturally an idiot.

40% of what?

How many were in favour before there before. That could be an increase of 10 - 14 businesses. Hardly anything that?

I bet you don't know where you got that crap from or what it means, you slaver on here too much.
57

Lance Boyle,

Linlithgow 02/05/2008 10:58:22
The Tory revival will work to the detriment of the SNP in a general election as many SNP "converts" will return to their true allegiance.
58

John S,

02/05/2008 11:00:03
Businessman wins EU referendum bid. - A millionaire businessman has won permission to launch a High Court challenge over the Government's refusal to hold a referendum on the EU Reform Treaty (the Lisbon Treaty).
The full hearing is expected to take place at the High Court in London on June 9-10.Herald - May 2 2008
59

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:00:42
62. Seems unlikely given Tories have an easy choice between Tory policies from Labour (cutting inheritance for millionaires while doubling tax on the low paid, Trident, Iraq, ID cards, opposing council house building) and Tory policies from the Tories - Tories will probably just keep voting for either of these two Tory parties.
60

BIG EYE,

Paisley 02/05/2008 11:00:55
27 Lachie Todd

"It has been a disaster for new Labour but Gordon Brown has two years before he needs to call a general election"

Aye yer right...it could get a lot worse!

This night might be remembered fondly as a high point!
61

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:03:36
61. Alfred - given you have been posting all day yesterday, at midnight, through to 3.52am this morning, and all day since 8.00am, your concern about others posting is touching, but perhaps you should address what appears to be an obsession on your part which is clearly accelerating the collapse of your already flimsy faculties?

Businesses are 40% more in support of independence since last year, based on a survey of 640 businesses carried out the Scotsman - which also reports how impressive many businesses have found the SNP in government.
62

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 11:14:21
#30 morris,
Oh hum morris has got the hump reduced to insults in lieu of constructive debate...........



do you know what morrris on careful consideration your a big fat c#nt who wears red braces on ya troosers.....

63

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 11:16:27


Ha......got lard ars# with both barrels there...........bang...bang
64

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:21:10
67. AM2 - I was merely quoting from the Herald report on FMQs which stated "In short, Nicola Sturgeon wiped the floor with Wendy Alexander..... there would be enough paste to wallpaper with hat remained of Ms Alexander"

I also note that the headmaster of the school raised by Ms Alexander was so disturbed by the scare-mongering behaviour of her spin doctor he phoned the leader of the council to complain.

You stated that people were reacting against PC in Wales - I just asked what you base this on as PC have so far a net gain in seats? You then avoid a retraction of your mistaken point, and say that PC are increasing their seats because of Labour? Perhaps because people have voted them in in those seats would be a better explanation, but not one which fits well with your erroneous first post which I note you lack the grace to withdraw.

A brief perusal of my post 57 above will again show another error on your part - I posted "Scottish businesses now 40% more in favour of independence" at 57 - I trust you will now have the grace to apologise for your correction of "more in favour".

Are you ill today? You seem to be riddling your posts with more innaccuracies and errors than normal?
65

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 02/05/2008 11:22:48
Tax the poor and buy a bank.

Goodbye Chairman Gordon, you are mad.
66

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:24:31
70. AM2

I was merely quoting the Scotsman article which states quite plainly : "(the poll) found 39 per cent were now more in favour of independence than 12 months ago."

That you find that a inconvenient, frightening and frustrating finding should however not prevent you from apologising for saying I ommitted "more in favour" from my post at 57, given your error is laid bare for all to see.
67

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 02/05/2008 11:26:40
Alfred E Neuman - you clearly like winding people up. You remind me of a drunk in the corner whom everybody eventually learns to ignore. No doubt a new moniker will appear when this eventually happens. I now sign the pledge, I 'd urge others to do so. Why give this troublemaker and sh*t-strirrer any more oxygen for his convoluted and inane 'contributions'. He is clearly obsessed with race for a start, and in a very unhealthy manner.
68

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 11:29:09
#30 Gutbucket


and this is what Michael White in the guardian has to say

"Anyone with an interest in maintaining the union must welcome the revival of all-UK parties on the Celtic fringe as well as the Anglo-Saxon fringe."

not a notable idiot...........fat boy
69

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 11:32:26
Joy, oh joy for the Scottish nationalists as they celebrate the likelihood of a Tory UK government - just like they celebrated in 1979.
70

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:36:35
76. WU

given the Tories have been in power more than Labour in the UK for the last 60 years, are Tory governments not just the price you Unionists like to impose on Scotland by advocating the Union?

And do tell, how will a Tory government differ from a troy Labour one? Labour cut inheritance tax while doubling tax on the poor, prefer Trident WMD spending over services, erode civil liberties with ID cards and detention without trial, and vote with the Tories against council house builiding in Scotland.
71

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 11:37:26
76 errr no we are celebrating the likelihood of an independent scotland matey..................The one we were robbed of in 79.
72

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 11:44:10
74 Seriously Amused

Are you denying Alex Salmond wrote to Robert Mugabe?

Or do you deny not wanting to share your resources with another nation or nationals, on account of a fierce belief in being indiginious to land, that are legally entitled to share said resources is a commonness that all "National Parties" believe, including the BNP and SNP.
73

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:46:44
79- Alfred E Neuman holds forth:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJx-uGRsiNU
74

,

02/05/2008 11:49:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
75

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:50:21
81. Alfred E Neuman proclaims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9oRPhuhqxQ
76

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 11:51:04
77

Ayrshire, I am not advocating the union, merely pointing out that all of you Scottish nationalists appear to be overjoyed this morning at the prospect of a Tory UK government. A case of haggises voting for Burns night - again.
77

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 11:52:34
#77 Ayrshire Scot™

'Union is best' ..............Eh don't you agree
78

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:52:46
83. Personally WU I am hoping that Ken Livingstone wins.
79

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 11:56:45
84. Niko

no, I don't agree. Union leads to Tory UK governments running Scotland - a price you Labour types no doubt think is a price worth paying.
80

bluehead,

edinburgh 02/05/2008 11:58:48
after the worst drubbing for forty years the labour mob are still raving a lot of trash,brown has the cheek to say that he will learn and lead,who doe's he think he is kidding? ,we have had enough of this labour lot, it is about time he thought of the country,and did the right thing,which is to resign
let us have fresh air for a change
81

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 12:01:00
#86 Ayrshire Scot™


In all honesty and stirring aside......Probably not.
82

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 12:02:21
88. Niko

given that the Tories have been in power more than Labour for the last 60 years, why do you advocate the Union then as it inevitably means Tory government for Scotland?
83

Johnnyf,

Scotland 02/05/2008 12:11:17
Totally agree with #9, Richard.
Can any of you remember what it was like with a Tory government. Thatcher punishing Scotland with the Poll Tax,wrecking the NHS, economy, 5 million unemployed etc. How anybody can be taken in by a snobby, millionaire like Cameron whose policies ? are anything he thinks the public are willing to hear.
This furure over the 10p tax is ridiculous, media driven hype, remember the Tories didn't vote against it's abolition but are no crowing about it for political purpose. Poorer families - the introduction of the minimum wage (the lack of this was a bonanza for Tory supporting employers under Thatcher to pay employees as little as possible aided by the high unemployment figures of the time), Family Credits,and, oh what was the pensioner's heating allowance prior to Brown's £200 per year, oh yes I remember £10.
This credit crisis, rising prices of oil and food is GLOBAL, but then so many people can't see past their own noses.
84

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 12:11:20
#67 AM2

I think you will find that this is mainly what people are referring to:



"However, the Labour leader came rather unstuck when the Deputy FM disclosed that Ms Alexander's press aide, Simon Pia, had phoned the head teacher of a Paisley school where there is concern about future provision.

The clear implication was that Mr Pia was deliberately fomenting discontent in order to stand up claims due to be made at Holyrood by his boss."

(Brian Taylor Blog).

Getting "found out" in such a public way was humiliating for Wendy Alexander and a technical knock-out for Nicola Sturgeon.
85

Twelve highlanders and a bagpipe make a rebellion,

02/05/2008 12:16:38
What is so wrong with a Tory government? I mean in real terms, not just because you think it is expected of you to say that.

(Please don't use the poll tax as an example, I want to know in real terms what you fear.)
86

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 12:17:04
#70 AM2

your grasp of percentages is fairly weak. I think you are referring to "percentage points" rather than percent. Your (erroneous) example is in fact 300%.
87

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 12:17:21
92. Continuation of Tory Labour policies.
88

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 12:22:40
Brown will be in even more trouble when the electorate realise that some may now have to pay £400 for car road tax on their old banger. That will go down like a lead balloon!
89

kimba,

02/05/2008 12:23:37
AJ. There is nothing tory about labours policies,under the tories the harder you worked the better off you were,as opposed to "new labour" who take the bloody lot.
90

Sedov,

Scotland 02/05/2008 12:28:25
Maybe this is the wake up call needed to stop the Tories from becoming the next government. These results can be traced back to the lack of a leadership contest within the Labour Party when the unpopular Blair left. This was a great chance for the party, including the soft lefts and the leaders of the trade union movement to support a leader who would restore the values of the LP in supporting working people in favour of the banks and big businesses and reverse the blatant pro capitalist programme of New Labour. They blew it and Brown, as I predicted, has turned out to be an even worse leader than Blair and that says something! Those on the left who have left the LP because they had no stomach to take on New Labour can stop gloating - The Tories are on the rise and things would be very much worse under Cameron. Disregarding the NATS ( who will come under the same fate as New Labour because of their pro bosses stance) its time those on the left started aiming their ammo at the Tories and the BNP who have also gained support in England. In the meantime there needs to be a real contest for leadership within the LP. John 4 Leader! ( John McDonald)
91

kimba,

02/05/2008 12:37:40
97. NOTHING will stop the tories becoming the next government,if you don't like it you don't have to stay!
92

Calum Crubag,

02/05/2008 12:37:42
#23 - very good point. At least in Scotland, we have a bit more choice and chance to make our votes count.
93

BIG EYE,

Paisley 02/05/2008 12:38:58
There will be a clear difference between a Labour and Tory Government.

The Tories will be the party on the left
94

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/05/2008 12:40:56
Vote tactically at the next election - get rid of every Labour MP !!
95

BIG EYE,

Paisley 02/05/2008 12:44:55
I see Labour's intellectual giant has been caught trying to manufacture a "crisis" that she can use against the SNP.

What's Scotland coming to when headmasters don't just do what their Labour masters tell them to?

And imagine. he actually phoned Wendy's Council Leader to complain. He of course is SNP as Wendy's Labour Party were booted out of council control at the last election. So once again Wendy was shown up as the intellectual and fair minded politican she truly is!

Just Wonderful!

96

Jimmy the Pie,

02/05/2008 12:45:14
Alfred E. Neuman Various rambling, incoherant posts.

Have you been licking the windows today?
97

Olaf,

Dundee 02/05/2008 12:48:54
I'm not so sure it was the 10% tax that has broken the camels back so much as the price of fuel and increases to road tax.

Those two things are robbing more out of the pockets of most people than the changes to income tax and it's something people see every day.

It feels like a burden to have this government. We feel like we are carrying it as dead weight. It'll be nice to dump the load and move on.
98

Deekie fae Midstocket,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 12:52:04
Some of the posters seem to forget that the Tories and New Labour are both enemies of Scotland. Don't complain when you vote New Labour and get Old Tories or vice-versa! Guess how to solve that problem...
99

kimba,

02/05/2008 12:56:53
No, people like you who talk out of their a--e h-les are the true enemy of scotland.
100

kimba,

02/05/2008 12:57:48
post @ 107 was for post 105
101

Johnnyf,

Scotland 02/05/2008 12:59:21
#92 asks what is wrong with a Tory government and forget about the Poll Tax.Forgetting about the Poll Tax is like forgetting when wearing tartan and bagpipes were banned.Mind you can't blame that on the Tories, it was a Whig (pre LibDems) that was Prime Minister at the time.
Do you think a "Hooray Henry" like Cameron really cares about poor families?
Don't you think had the Tories been in we would still have been in Iraq and Afghanistan? The Tories are closer politically to Bush than Labour.
We wouldn't have had the 10p tax to argue about because the Tories would'nt have introduced it.
Ditto Family Tax Credit
Ditto The Minimum Wage
Ditto Increased pensions.
Ditto The money put back into the National Health Service which the Tories tried their best to wreck because the favoured Private Health Insurance.
Ditto The money which has been successfully spent on Education including the large budget on ICT which has brought Britain out of the Technological Stone Age.It is not the standard of teaching or Government effort in Education which makes schools fail but the catchment area. You may not that failling schools are in the most socially deprived areas. The reason for social deprivation can be squarely laid at Mrs Thatcher's door. Thank God it's not No 10 anymore.
#96 There is more new wealth in the UK at the moment than at anytime. Can you possibly tell us how you could be better off if you worked hard under the Tories. I don't remeber them slashing the Income Tax rate, duty on petrol, VAT,. If what you are saying is "the Rich got Richer and the Poor got Poorer" under the last Tory government I could fully endorse that.
Let's hope David Milliband becomes leader before it's too late. Great Chancellor not so good at the old Prime Minister job, sorry, Gordon.
102

kimba,

02/05/2008 13:06:16
109. Maybe not,but we would not be taxed to the hilt,we are the highest taxed nation in Europe,and would a conservative government poured millions of tax payers pounds into Northern Rock,I think not!
103

W Smith,

Middle East 02/05/2008 13:07:19
A wee note for those SNP supporters who consider themselves 'socialists' and who seem to be a wee bit slow on the uptake:

1) Ken Livingstone is not 'New Labour', never has been and never will be.

Why do you think he's referred to as 'Red Ken'?

So its 'Red Ken' the Blairite then, eh?

DUH!

2) The 'New Labour' Blairites within the Labour Party oppose Gordon Brown.

This is not just bad news for 'New Labour'.

Its bad news for all the left wing hug-a-muslim-we-hate-america loonies, including the TUC, who are just waiting in the wings hoping for a new Labour Party leader who will let them run the country.

NAE CHANCE!
104

Busymale,

02/05/2008 13:13:25
Once the people of Scotland realise the Tories are going to win the next election they'll have no choice but to vote for Independence.

Not long now......
105

Brian M,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 13:13:53
"Paddy Power, announced it was paying out on a Boris Johnson victory, hours before the count was completed"

Probably because they took so few bets for Boris that they will not be losing very much money.
106

John PM,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 13:20:53
Aye, right. Brown is hopelessly out of date in his views and his party stands for absolutely nothing having already sold their soul to the Tories.

Would any other Labour PM of the past have deliberately raised taxes for the poorest in society? (Apart from Blair of course who hardly qualifies as 'Labour' at all).

What's the point of New Labour when people can vote for the genuine Tories, particularly under the nice smile of Mr Cameron, even if his party remains the same bunch of loons they always were.

Call an election and give us a vote on the one issue that matters to the future of the people of Scotland, independence.
107

brownlie,

02/05/2008 13:22:40
111 Smith

A wee note to you - keep your racism to yourselve - you clown.
108

Jimmy the Pie,

02/05/2008 13:30:41
#109 Johnnyf,

You said Comrade Broon was a 'great chancellor'?
He inherited a sound economy, started blowing money, raided pensions and flogged of gold reserves on the cheap, encouraged an economy built on credit, manufacturing nothing, gifted the wealthy tax breaks while hammering the ordinary folks.

Useless and incompetent Prime Minister
Useless and incompetent Chancellor.
Soon to be culled by his own party before the country gets the chance to.
109

Jimmy the Pie,

02/05/2008 13:31:30
That you finished the windows then AM2???
110

Johnnyf,

Scotland 02/05/2008 13:46:29
#Kimba
I think we have always been the highest taxed country in Europe going back centuries.
I think the Tories would have also bailed out Northern Rock because it is their own kind who run instituions such as banks.When former CEO Adam Applegarth first started working at Northern Rock he was lousy at his job. "As a cashier I was particularly inept," he said, "because I could never get the till to balance."
The Tory shadow cabinet has little or no experience of government and I'm sure will be equally as inept as the aforementioned CEO and see where that ended up.
George Osborne, heir to the title 18th Baron Osborne, I am sure has the welfare of the population of Britain who are on or below the poverty line at the very forefront of his mind. A privileged man married to a priviliged wife, I wish ordinary people in this country who have aspirations to being Tories would wake up to reality. Maybe a lot of them are suffering from cocaine induced euphoria. Nothing wrong with snorting coke Cameron and Osborn allegedly have.

111

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 13:54:35
92

Twelve, you are obviously a youngster.
112

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 13:55:20
101

Voice, why?
113

Johnnyf,

Scotland 02/05/2008 14:00:59
#117 Jimmy the Pie
I don't remember the economy being sound when the Tories were timely ejected. As for manufacturing, I'm afraid that went under Mrs Thatcher too.
Gold, I will give you, but also how many people have made money etc. selling their houses for a huge profit, share dealing etc under New Labour. How many people do you know who have been able to buy property abroad for retiral or holidays. Impossible under Tory government, they like to keep the money to them and their like.
"Cushy unemployment benefits will be cut back to 12 months from up to 36. The rules forcing the jobless to look for work will be radically toughened. Welfare entitlements will be cut; those on the dole will no longer be able to reject a job offer as "unsuitable" and retain their full unemployment benefits."
"Get on your bike and find a job" (Sir Norman Tebbit, Thatcher's right hand man, pretty much as Goebbles wa to Hitler).
The above quote is from Newsweek October 27 2003 when the German government took drastic measures modelled upon "The Iron Lady".

114

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 14:01:47
Kimba, a question: what would you have done with Northern Rock? Straight answer please. Thanks.
115

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 14:04:04
123

Johnnyf, you should realise that, like many other Scottish nationalists, Jimmy the Pie is a Tory at heart.
116

TheTerminator,

UK 02/05/2008 14:16:15
The voters in England and Wales have shown Labour what they think of the SMOKING BAN. REVENGE IS SWEET
117

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 14:20:15
126

TheTerminator, let me put it this way - if the price of the smoking ban is the demise of the Labour government (or any government, for that matter), so be it. The smoking ban is the finest output of the Scottish Parliament.
118

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 14:23:21
126

The Terminator - and all credit to the Scottish Patrliament for showing Westminster the way.
119

,

02/05/2008 14:24:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
120

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 14:32:19
129

Dumfries, I agree that Labour has gone - and rightly so - but why are you nationalists so delighted at the prospect of a Tory UK government?
121

brownlie,

02/05/2008 14:35:03
116 AM2

Yes, but if you factor in the 30% who, according to Highland Mighty, would move to England if independence was imminent then there would be an over-whelming majority for independence.
122

kimba,

02/05/2008 14:44:21
130. Because they think with a tory government independence for scotland is a sure thing, poor deluded fools!
123

Jimmy the Pie,

02/05/2008 14:49:04
#125 WU Merchant

Wrong, I have always been a Nationalist and always voted SNP. My politics are more left of centre and for that I don't apologise.

Roll on independence day
124

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 14:52:26
133

That's curious Jimmy the Pie - all SNP supporters say that - most of them are telling fibs. Are you?
125

Jimmy the Pie,

02/05/2008 15:01:40
If the SNP were 'tartan tories' would we have cut prescription charges?? Cut student endowments?? frozen council tax??
And no I'm not telling fibs - I'll leave that to the Sleaze Party
126

brownlie,

02/05/2008 15:05:56
134 WUM

Have you spoken to all SNP supporters? If you have not then it's you that's telling fibs!! Naughty, naughty WUM!!
127

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 15:11:35
135

But Jimmy the Pie, it can be argued that some Tories, as the party dedicated to cutting taxation, would view these decisions as reasonable decisions. But back to my original point: not every SNP voter can have always voted SNP so it is highly likely that you used to support another political party. You can't all be dyed in the wool nationalists. The figures don't lie.
128

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 15:14:12
136

brownlie, the figures don't lie. More people now vote SNP than ever before. Where did most of them come from? Other political parties. But don't tell me, let me guess: just like Jimmy the Pie, you have always voted SNP, haven't you?
129

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/05/2008 15:19:40
The main reason Brown and Labour lost is the economy.

The ironic thing is though that the economic policies of the opposition parties (even if they claim to be otherwise) are not radically different from Labour's.

If the Tories or Lib Dems were in power they would be running the economy with virtually the same economic policy as Labour and facing exactly the same problems.
130

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/05/2008 15:22:44
#137 The Tories may be dedicated to cutting taxes - they always have been - but historically they never actually manage to do so. What tends to happen is that the tax burden shifts from direct to indirect taxation - they just end up robbing Peter to pay Paul.
131

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/05/2008 15:25:51
Did anyone see BBC's election night programme opinion poll?

ICM asked respondents which party "can be trusted to keep its promises"?

The Tories - 17%
Labour - 17%
Lib Dems - 16%

But 58% said "none of them"!!!

132

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/05/2008 15:29:54
Let's not waste any more time on this: is there an SNP supporter out there who will admit to voting for another political party in the past and, if so, please identify the party. Thank you.
133

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 15:39:14
#106 AM2

Only in your world AM2.
134

Jimmy the Pie,

02/05/2008 16:03:07
WUM

Why is not possible to have only ever voted SNP? I voted SNP when I got the vote and have voted for them ever since. Many SNP members and voters will have voted for other parties at some time (makes sense if you think about it!)
So what is your point?
135

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 16:13:02
142. I have voted for Labour in the past.
136

brownlie,

02/05/2008 16:32:29
138 WUM

You've obviously never read any of my posts. I don't blame you - they're always full of unionist clap-trap.

However, I do agree that more and more people are voting SNP, possibly because they see the alternatives as negative and stagnant.
137

BIG EYE,

Paisley 02/05/2008 16:37:19
A simple question?

Why did the pollsters not see this coming?.
I can't remember seeing any poll that suggested Labour would plummet to 24%, indeed I saw several last week that suggested Labour were staging a small recovery.

The poll for Mayor suggested Ken was leading 41% to 40% for Boris yet even though the vote in not in yet it seems to be a much wider margin in Boris's favour!

This would seem to show a consistent bias in polls in favour of the Labour Party.

You have no idea how much this cheers me up as I consider that Wendy is almost certainly in much more trouble than any current polls have indicated, albeit they are pretty awful already!
138

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/05/2008 16:38:10
"110 kimba,02/05/2008 13:06:16
109. Maybe not,but we would not be taxed to the hilt,we are the highest taxed nation in Europe,and would a conservative government poured millions of tax payers pounds into Northern Rock,I think not!"

The Tories would have done exactly the same - their economic policies are virtually the same as Labour's. Despite their protestations that they are the "tax-cutting" party - we all know that all they do is cut direct taxes and increase indirect taxes - 22 if I am correct that Major brought in.
139

Brian M,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 16:55:26
I voted Labour for 40 years, from 1968 until 2007 when I voted for the SNP.

Scottish Labour had almost 10 years of real power to change things for the better in Scotland, but they still obeyed their Westminster masters.

The only change for the better was the introduction of the smoking ban, but then I think that was the equivalent of the poll tax legislation in that Westminster gave it to wee Joke McConnell and Scotland first
140

Warden An' All, Reborn,

02/05/2008 17:22:12
149/Brian M- A sure indication some may think that wisdom doesn't always come with age.I'd bet you were one of those who stupidly believed devolution wouldn't have an effect on the way scotland is treated by Westminster. You can't have your cake and eat it, and yes the parties up here have to keep in line with the leaders of the UK parties otherwise they wouldn't be the same parties.
141

Chudleigh,

Exmouth 02/05/2008 17:47:27
In the south of England we have no trouble with the fact that Brown is a Scot

The problem we all face is that he is not a canny Scot
142

Geoff,

sa 02/05/2008 17:51:01
141 the federalist-a telling and sad statistic!
I feel a genuine sadness for Gordon brown as an individual. I think he is a hardworking and sincere man who lacks the necessary showbiz pizzaz that the electorate seem to need in a leader. Combine this with the 'staleness of the long standing Party' and the worldwide economic slump and you have a recipe for failure unfortunately.
143

Geoff,

sa 02/05/2008 17:59:19
151 Chudleigh-good comment. I think that some Nationalists try to play this Anti Scots racist card to stir things. I dont think the average englishman has any prob with a Scots PM. Where resentment has arisen is as a result of the devolution settlement that has left England without a parliament of its own. Notwithstanding the fact that Westminster has an English majority, it is the British parliament-England needs an England only forum.
144

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 18:00:16
47. AM2 - I see that Plaid Cymru have now made a net gain of 33 council seats. (if you adjusted for nuber of seats in play Wales vs England+Wales, they seem to be the biggest gainers of the election ). Would you care to elabortae on your post?
145

whitegold,

Shire 02/05/2008 18:23:45
Federalist #139 wrote:
"If the Tories or Lib Dems were in power they would be running the economy with virtually the same economic policy as Labour and facing exactly the same problems."

That simply isn't true. Labour kept the same tory economic policy until 2001 and then went their own way. Economically Labour have been a disaster and their policies are to blame.

There are plenty of independent reports out there that were critical of Labour's handling of the economy well before the present 'recession'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/10/23/cnuksham123.xml

>>In a damning new report "More Mirage than Miracle" published by the free-market think tank Policy Exchange, the analysts said Britain was relapsing into high-tax and high-regulation sclerosis just as the rest of Europe begins to shake itself out of statist lethargy......."Just as private households have been living beyond their means, so has the state. The expansion of the public sector artificially inflates GDP growth data: it cannot continue much longer.

"Judging by the fiscal deficit trend, the UK is now in worse fiscal shape than almost any other major Western country. In the event of an economic downturn, the UK now has little leeway for stimulus," it said.<<



146

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 02/05/2008 18:35:50
David Cameron described the performance of the Conservatives as being due to a "vote of positive confidence" (as opposed to negative confidence, presumably).

Horse manure! This was not a vote FOR the Tories, but a vote AGAINST Labour. The English and Welsh should note that if they want to keep the Union together, a new party altogether is required. I also suggest moving government to the Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-Hull belt, following the construction of modern, secure Parliamentary buildings there. If the British Republicans had gotten their act together properly, as they ought to have done 20 years ago, the situation would be extremely different today, and the north-south divide would be minor. But no one had the guts.
147

Brian M,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 18:50:56
Looks like Brown's "I am British and hope you think that means English" approach has failed completely
148

John Blackley,

Florida 02/05/2008 19:57:38
Don't fall into your own grin yet, David Cameron. I'll vote for one of yours when - and only when - they vow to abolish all the new taxes G. Brown created and reduce the remainder by 50%

149

thaijambo,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 20:00:10
#141
I think your figures are a wee bit wrong.
17%+17%+16%+58%=108%.
150

Jimmy the Pie,

02/05/2008 20:07:05
I hope Alex Salmond sends his condolences to Comrade Broon on his utter humiliation and crushing defeat in the English local elections and London mayoral election.

It'll soon be our turn to give him a kicking.
151

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 02/05/2008 20:12:56
142 I was Labour before, not any more. I was always a bit of a wavering voter between Labour and SNP, but the invasion of Iraq propelled me towards the SNP. And there I'll stay until independence, thereafter I'll just vote for the best constituency candidate whatever their colours (or none).

I think the old days of "Left Right Left Right Left Right!" could be coming to an end - I hope so. Pointless labels altogether.
152

Brian M,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 20:43:42
Brown says that he will 'listen', big deal
153

yoric,

02/05/2008 21:51:05
Is Brown going to listen to the millions who want a referendum on the EU treaty?

The millions who want the fuel duty reducing?

The millions who want the 10% tax band restoring?

Labour need to replace Brown, now immediatly, or Labour will enter the political wilderness.

When Brown leaves he needs to take his baggage with him, Darling, Alexander, Des Brown etc, because we dont want them in England.
154

,

02/05/2008 22:02:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
155

Brian M,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 23:22:24
Brown will not change his ways, he will try to fobb us off with some sleight of tax hand, probably to show that the 'poor' will be better off, but the vast majority will pay for it.

Anyway, the English voters will get rid of him, no matter how much he pushes how British(he hopes they think English) he claims to be.
156

Colkitto,

River Clyde 03/05/2008 00:40:32
With Boris winning the humiliation is complete. Roll on the Westminster and Holyrood elections !!!

 

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