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1

brandy al,

embra 07/01/2009 12:08:38
Craigmillar is not one of my favorite places,but they are not all drunking idiots.
2

elayne,

07/01/2009 12:13:48
these statistics make really sad reading!its true alcoholism knows know class barriers but i think if one lives in a less affluent area,there is sometimes a sense of hopelessness for some,who maybe want to get out of situation,away from influences that encourage problem drinking etc,but if one is poor it is difficult to do so and the sense of hopelessness is magnified,people are pretty well informed about dangers of alcohol nowadays but sometimes its peoples only comfort however right or wrong it may be
3

alex patersons English teacher,

07/01/2009 12:16:23
1
you need help at the andrew dunking clinic.
4

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 12:18:29
nobody is trying to say that they all are.

these figures are horrendous , and dont include younger deaths from misadventure through alcohol.
5

Decent,

07/01/2009 12:26:27
My God - give them a prize for stating the bloody obvious.
6

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 12:26:29
I hardly think that there is a link between "poverty" and alcoholism. Seeing as "poverty" is roughly defined as not having enough money to buy food and put a roof over your head, presumably, anyone in "poverty" would not be able to buy drink and would therefore not have an alcohol problem in the first place.

If anyone who was in "poverty" had an alcohol problem then I venture to suggest that the cause is more likely to be a mental problem than one of lack of money---because they would be spending the money they did have on booze instead of food and board.

As Elayne points out in her sentence of record-breaking length, alcohol-related problems can hit the affluent as well as the less well off.
7

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 12:31:50
A lot of it is due to Education and Tolerance of drinking also.

Its basically taken for granted that the majority of our under 30's go out and get blootered each weekend. If you accept that, and see it as normal, then theres bound to be longer term casualties. Dare i say it, those in more educated areas will not have the tolerance factor and will be more likely to have to face up to the problem sooner.

Also, these areas contain a high concentration of social housing, some of the casualties may have originally come from the better areas (it takes a while and a serious commitment to die of liver cancer).

Its very hard to drink like a b*st*rd 24x7 AND pay a mortgage on a house in the Grange you know. Slippery slope.
8

reincarnated,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 12:32:01
I suspect the poverty issue is for the dependants of these alcoholics who spend the family buroo money on bevvy.
9

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 12:33:13
6 as usual you simply dont understand.

Many are in poverty because of the reliance on alcohol. Anyway, Im not discussing with you further, I'm sure you are a good guy but you are simply an asshole when it comes to this subject.
10

elayne,

07/01/2009 12:33:30
#6 haha,im bored today!(off work )but im sure that more than a few more affluent people have probs with drink too,only they may tend to "hide" it more,from family,work colleagues etc
11

FrankGallagher,

07/01/2009 12:35:48
You would think if the guy in the picture is poverty stricken he might think of alternatives to smirnoff, like grants or a well known supermarket brand
12

Hector the Red,

07/01/2009 12:42:55
Good old Wester Hailes, no car thefts and no deaths from alchohol. It's good to know I live in a safe environment.
Are these figures a reflection of Alex Patersons leaving Wester Hailes....hmmm.....I wonder!
13

familymanwith2jobsandawifeworkingfulltime,

07/01/2009 12:45:18
Shows you were all the money is. The people in the so called better areas cant afford the booze.
14

elayne,

07/01/2009 12:52:41
alcohol is really cheap these days (if bought from supermarket)some of these so called "ciders"are only a couple of quid so i suppose anyone can afford to get steamin drunk regardless of income
15

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 12:58:54
30 quids worth can kill you under the right circumstances. One way or another we can all afford that.
16

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 13:05:30
#9:

I understand perfectly. The individual makes many choices throughout their life and but one of them is whether or not to drink themselves stupid.

Unlike many people nowadays, I simply do not have any sympathy for alcoholics, drug addicts or problem gamblers. It may seem hard as nails in this politically correct, pink and fluffy environment but as far as I am concerned, they have brought it upon themselves.

If someone is prepared to go from having a normal existance to destitution for want of 2 bottles of scotch a day then either they are mentally ill or completely stupid.
17

Dicriminated,

07/01/2009 13:34:40
Odd, Niddrie Mains & Greendykes have virually demolished! So where do the figures come from?
18

Foo,

07/01/2009 13:38:00
Having a drinks OK, but it's got nothing on going down the gym for a couple hours or a brisk walk along Tyninghame beach of a winters day.

19

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 13:45:34
17

thats the million dollar question.
20

tomias,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 14:18:31
Statistics; no one here can interpretate the EENs article-seriously-without knowing the total figures/ how collected/analysed by whom and rechecked.Eye catching pic;I'll wait for the BMJ full report.
21

Cynicaltalk,

07/01/2009 14:32:38
#16

It is by no means hard as nails, i think it is actually pretty ignorant and stupid.

How can you say that is due to mental illness, and then say it is their fault? Do people give themselves mental illness??

It is a vicious cycle. These individuals do live in poverty, and turn to alcohol for some form of comfort and detatchment from the reality of their lives. This then becomes a dependancy as they equate alcohol with escape.

I agree that there are more than enough supporting mechanisms in place to help people nowadays to get them over their addiction, but to simply sit in your ivory tower and claim they simply woke up one morning and thought 'i'll become an alky today' is pretty immature.
22

Sarcasm,

07/01/2009 14:40:07
#17
To keep them in the scheme.
You don't want them mixing with the good folk of Comiston and Swanston, Currie East, Braids, Clerwood and Corstorphine or Parkhead now do you.

It might be contagious.
23

badger464,

07/01/2009 14:40:20
#16 it doesn't seem hard as nails, only that for some reason you are unable to absorb what goes on in life around you
24

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 14:45:44
basically humans are just highly developed monkeys. Now, humans by their nature (being human and all) can fall prey to adddiction and are as much a product of their environment as they are of genetics.

If you cant understand fuelhead, maybe its you that has the mental illness.

Go see a caged polar bear continually rubbing its head against steel bars in an ill equipped cage if you are still having problems understanding. no difference with humans.
25

FrankGallagher,

07/01/2009 14:56:24
did the polar bear had one too many lightnings?
26

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 15:02:23
Yes it did frank.
27

Niko Bellic,

07/01/2009 15:16:00

Why did the polar bear had one too many lightnings?

To get to the other side.
28

11+failed,

the pans 07/01/2009 15:28:36
"Every study, not just in Edinburgh or even Scotland, finds that those with less money are more likely to drink."
I don't suppose it occurred to "Councillor Marjorie Thomas" that if they didn't drink they would have more money!
29

Vandala,

07/01/2009 15:33:03
#16. I don't know whether you're a Tory or not, but people who think like you do tend to believe that everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It simply isn't the case. People are born into this world with widely different abilities, aptitudes and degrees of intelligence. It's a sad fact, but not everyone is destined for a nice middle class life.
30

Clen Peapus,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 15:40:56
Perhaps then it is better to say that there is a link between alcohol and deprivation, instead of poverty.

Whilst poverty is clearly the deprivation of materials/facilities (such as food, water, clothing, heat, shelter, etc) which contribute to quality of life and ability to live. Deprivation generally could be taken to include lack of opportunities and hope e.g. no chance of employment, no scope to improve your own situation, etc. People can still be deprived of opportunity without being in poverty.

Although maybe my terminology is still wrong, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
31

tog,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 15:42:21
Not sure about these figures. I am sure quite a few people in the posher parts of town are dying earlier because of alcohol, the connection to booze is not made on the death certificate. This is not a class issue it is a problem right across Scottish society. Alcoholism is rife amongst the professional classes, it is not restricted by postcode.
32

badger464,

07/01/2009 15:46:06
just like drugs, i'd imagine the quality of alcohol consumed and therefore the price can also have a bearing on ones longlevity
33

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 15:48:43
32 I would wager that theres a hell of a lot more people dying indirectly of booze. Long term abuse can seriously weaken immune systems. Also, Often verdicts of misadventure are given to protect people. Aye, even in death theres denial.

33

Its basically ethanol. Quality doesnt make a difference.
34

Sarcasm,

07/01/2009 15:52:11
#35
Don't blame me, I quoted from the article.

Must be something else that gets the parkheaders.
35

badger464,

07/01/2009 15:58:42
#34 some alcoholics can get by on a bottle of red wine a day which although the consuption is more than recommended the wine does have qualities which are actually beneficial to good health, cheap strong white cider i doubt has any benefit whatsoever to good health therefore i disagree, alcohol maybe basically ethanol but alcoholic drinks are not
36

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 07/01/2009 16:05:53
if you mean quality over quantity then of course you are right. 1-2 drinks a day is more or less accepted as being better than none at all.

However, 4 litres a day of either best red wine or white lightning will screw you up.
37

badger464,

07/01/2009 16:15:05
and 4 litres of red wine would cost considerably more than 4 litres of white lightning therefore the propensity of poorer people with drink problems would be to consume, what was within their budget, the cheaper thus suggesting the link to poverty and or deprivation
38

Niko Bellic,

07/01/2009 16:21:32
It's mainly to do with the climate. The further north you go, the more people are into getting silly with it.

If scotland had a warm climate, everyone would be playing volleyball and climbing trees.
39

Niko Bellic,

07/01/2009 16:22:34
Russia, Finland, Iceland - up for a pint

California - volleyball and tree climbing
40

badger464,

07/01/2009 16:24:08
#40 then how would you explain many australians going to the drive through off license every other day for a block of tinnies
41

Ned_Kelly,

07/01/2009 16:51:58
#42 - It's bl00dy hot and we're thirsty!
42

UmeåJambo,

Sweden 07/01/2009 16:59:33
You don't want to come for a pint in Sweden, it's roughly £5.60.

£7 in Norway!
43

blackley,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 17:03:59
Is this news?
44

Niko Bellic,

07/01/2009 17:54:05
"Is this news?"

Well, that's a complicated question. The shooting of JFK was only news if you believe in hierarchical socio-political structures. Many people in Zambia didn't consider it news.

As for this report - well, yes, it's news. Newspapers often report on things such is the 'health map' this story is based on.

News, maybe. Surprise? No.
45

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/01/2009 18:10:36
#22:

So expecting people to take responsibility for their own actions is "ignorant and stupid" is it? Maybe that kind of thinking is the root cause of the fact that some people just can't seem to be able to do so...

I think we have all been through difficult patches at some point or another. Most of us have had the wherewithall to deal with it rather than expecting society to help us out.

#30:

"I don't know whether you're a Tory or not..."

I can do better than that! I'm also in favour of meritocracy to boot!

So-called "middle class" has nothing to do with it, which is the point of this article in fact. There are plenty of alcoholics who hold down quite high-ranking jobs. In fact, I have personally met several of them in my lifetime. These people are just as likely to kill themselves with booze as the crowd of winos sitting round a burning tractor tyre on the beach---more so in fact, because they have the money to buy a lot more alcohol.

#37:

"some alcoholics can get by on a bottle of red wine a day..."

In which case they are not really alcoholics. They may have a drink problem, coupled with an unrelenting hangover if they are drinking a bottle of red a day but they are not going to be physically dependant upon alcohol if they are only drinking that kind of quantity.

Alcoholism basically starts at a bottle of spirits a day, and many drink a great deal more than that.
46

Niko Bellic,

07/01/2009 18:18:05
Cheers Dr Fuelhead*

*Dr Fuelhead's advice is intended for entertainment only. If you are boozing too much, consult a physician.
47

Niko Bellic,

07/01/2009 18:19:55
He's right about the invisible 'middle class' alcoholics. Much of Europe pukes a lot less than Scotland, but drinks a comparable amount, albeit with decent food and not in a chain pub directly after a hard day at the Microsoft Office applications.
48

Fecker,

07/01/2009 20:43:19
Wow, 5 years to state the bleeding obvious, what a waste of money
49

Julian.,

edinburgh 07/01/2009 22:12:15
#16,

So you don't have any sympathy for people who are alcoholics as a result of mental illness? Probably not something you should be boasting about on this website.

Then again, I suppose you can do that sort of thing in complete anonymity here, not even using your real name. I wonder if you would spout the same views in a less anonymous circumstances.
50

Julian.,

edinburgh 07/01/2009 22:13:16
And just in case you didn't realise that last comment was aimed at you Mr Fuel head.
51

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 07/01/2009 22:42:57
its.the.first.drink.that.starts.the,problems
52

soozsco,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 10:00:17
sounds like fuelhead has no empathy and no sympathy for anyone.

48: a bottle of wine is 10 units of alcohol a day, if you have to drink every day and have withdrawal symptoms if you don't drink then you have an alcohol problem regardless if thats a bottle of red wine per day or 4 bottles of white lightning. Alcoholism has a genetic component too and there is alot of evidence to show that for some families their alcoholism is an inherited condition. This means their first alcoholic beverage will start a life long problem.

You should never drink every day, its very harmful, especially in women (they can't metabolise alcohol in the same way as men). Guidelines recomend 1 to 2 units no more than 3 times a week. Any more than this is harmful drinking.

 

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