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Scotland's Alcohol Shame: Drink abuse costs nation £2.25bn a year



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Published Date: 06 May 2008
ALCOHOL abuse is costing Scotland more than £2.25 billion a year – double the previous estimate – The Scotsman can reveal. But that massive figure is still considered to be a substantial underestimate of the true cost to the health service, justice system and economy.
Liver cirrhosis deaths have soared in Scotland over the past 30 years, while falling across Europe, prompting calls for urgent action to tackle the alcohol epidemic. Radical measures being considered include upping the age limit for buying alcohol to 21 and raising taxes on drinks with high alcohol content.

Tighter restrictions on the sale of alcohol and limits on advertising have helped to cut liver deaths in other nations, and the SNP has decided to make tackling alcohol misuse a top priority for its second year in office, in the belief that drink is stopping the country fulfilling its true potential.

Campaigners agree action is now needed to tackle Scotland's poor relationship with alcohol, with mounting evidence of its negative impact on the country.

Figures studied by the Scottish Government show deaths from cirrhosis of the liver, caused by alcohol abuse, have seen the fastest growth in Europe.

By 2000 – the latest available figures – there were 70 such deaths per 100,000 men aged 45-64 in Scotland, compared with fewer than 30 in 1980.

In other European countries outside the UK, deaths dropped from about 50 per 100,000 in 1980 to about 30 in 2000. Indications suggest this trend is continuing, but with the rate of deaths still going up in Scotland.

Despite those shocking statistics, putting a figure on the overall cost of alcohol problems has proved problematic.

In 2002-3, it was estimated alcohol misuse was costing Scotland £1.125 billion a year. The latest figure, calculated by the health analytical services division of the Scottish Government, concluded the cost was £2.25 billion, equivalent to £6.2 million a day, although the true cost is certain to be even higher.

Shona Robison, Holyrood's public health minister, said the new figure highlighted the scale of the problem facing Scotland.

"The fact this revised analysis has given us an estimate that is double the previous estimate at £2.25 billion confirms our view that alcohol misuse in Scotland is holding us back as a nation," said Ms Robison.

"It's costing us a lot of money in public services, and clearly it is costing the economy a lot of lost opportunity.

"Only when people accept the scale of the problem will they accept the government needs to respond with action proportionate to the scale of the problem."

The biggest costs of alcohol misuse were found to be economic, with business hit hard by hungover employees affecting productivity. The total cost to the economy, including absence from work and unemployment, was estimated at £820 million. The NHS was also badly hit, with the effects of alcohol-related ill-health on hospitals, GPs and the ambulance service totalling at least £405 million. The costs to social services and the criminal justice system added a further £555 million.

But one of the most worrying costs – and the most difficult to calculate – was the human and social one. Suffering caused by crime, loss of life and other social damage was put at £470 million.

Ms Robison accepted that tackling a culture of alcohol-misuse in Scotland would not be easy. "We can change it by focusing on the fact that this is not about being anti-alcohol. This is anti-alcohol-misuse, and about getting people to understand the cost of that misuse, and that people can enjoy the product without abusing it," she said.

"We want to get to that stage, in the same way that other European countries do. They enjoy alcohol products without abusing them the way we do in Scotland.

"I do think that in the conversations I hear, there's beginning to be a realisation that this is holding us back, as individuals, as families, as a society. Wouldn't it be good to have £2.25 billion invested elsewhere? And that is before the potential is released.

"I am optimistic we can take the Scottish public with us. It's not going to happen overnight – cultural change never does. But I am confident we can get to a better place where we can enjoy alcohol without abusing it."

The Scottish Government is set to publish its long-term strategy on alcohol this summer.

Action that could be taken includes increasing the age at which people can buy alcohol from 18 to 21, as in the United States. It is also likely there will be measures to crack down on discounts in supermarkets, such as imposing minimum prices.

Jack Law, the chief executive of Alcohol Focus Scotland, said the country was just starting to wake up to its alcohol-related problems. "I think there's a broad recognition that in Scotland the way in which we consume alcohol is problematic," he said.

He said alcohol was everywhere – a supermarket loss-leader, sponsor of sports events and linked to TV programmes. "People tend, then, to see alcohol as nothing more than another kind of drink, like tea. But it's a licensed product," he said.

Evelyn Gillan, project director of Scottish Health Action on Alcohol Problems, also said the price had to be addressed, and £5 pocket money could now allow a teenager to buy enough alcohol to kill themselves.

"We have called for minimum pricing," Dr Gillan said. "There's an unquestionable link between price, consumption and harm."

She said the reasons for higher rates of liver deaths in Scotland were complex. "France took a big decision some years ago to tackle their own rising rates of liver disease. They completely banned advertising of alcohol and put controls on when and where it was available. This action has clearly worked," she said.

Paul Waterson, of the Scottish Licensed Trade Association, said: "We need to cut out the alcohol being sold in supermarkets below cost."

David Sinclair, of Victim Support Scotland, said alcohol misuse had to be tackled in light of the large amount of crime committed under the influence.

SCOTLAND'S ALCOHOL SHAME: 'Radical measures' vow to cut alcohol abuse

SHOPKEEPERS ATTACKED

RETAILERS have called for a nationally recognised proof-of-age card to be brought in for all youngsters to crack down on threats and violence against shop staff.

John Drummond, chief executive of the Scottish Grocers Federation (SGF) said the level of abuse workers faced from young people asked their age when buying items such as alcohol or cigarettes was "simply not good enough".

A survey by the group of 553 such stores found there were 165 violent incidents in 2007, as well as 1,269 occasions when staff were verbally abused and 180 cases of racist abuse. Many of the incidents were prompted by staff asking for proof of age.

Mr Drummond said: "The results of the survey, which has been carried out on an annual basis for the past four years, continue to draw attention to the violence and intimidation staff are often confronted with when selling age-related products."

The SGF has petitioned the Scottish Parliament on this issue, and is awaiting a response from ministers.

In the report Mr Drummond also claimed some areas were becoming "ghettos".

High-flying life let 'problem sneak in'

DAVID had what many would consider a perfect life – a good job, an expensive flat and a long-term girlfriend. But with his high-flying career came the socialising which led him into problem drinking.

Now the 42-year-old has turned his back on his old life and dramatically reduced his alcohol consumption.

David realised in August 2002 that his drinking was out of control.

He said: "It sneaked up. A lot of it was the job I had, the relationship I was in, the amount of money I was earning.

"I had a lot of money and a very high-pressure job. But it was also the circle of friends I was keeping. These were all high-earners and high-flyers."

While working in computer management, David found himself out drinking a lot as "there was a lot of corporate entertaining". But he realised he had a problem with the level of alcohol he was consuming – up to a bottle of vodka a night.

"I woke up that morning in 2002 and had some kind of epiphany," he said.

"I was standing on the doorstep of my £250,000 flat in a nice part of Glasgow, my BMW in the driveway and my partner's car there as well.

"I just thought, 'I'm not happy'. I wondered what was making me unhappy and this voice said it was the drink."

David quit his job and ended his relationship. He faced his problems with the support of family and friends.

"It does not matter who you are. If you pour enough booze down your neck over a long enough period you will become clinically anxious and clinically depressed.

"Part of that led me into my new choice of career."

David has since retrained and is now working in mental health and "is a lot happier".

He added: "I drink again now but moderately. I don't feel the need to get off my face any more."

'Drink was coming first, before anyone'

WHEN his son died at the age of nine, William Cotter's alcohol problems began to spiral out of control.

Drinking whisky became a major part of his life and seriously affected his family.

But Mr Cotter, 59, got help from the Greater Easterhouse Alcohol Awareness Project (Geaap), of which he is now chairman.

He did not start drinking until the age of 20, but it was only when his son was knocked down and killed in a road accident during his summer holidays in 1981 that he started drinking more heavily.

Mr Cotter said: "I always liked a wee drink but it got very severe when my son got killed.

"The drink overran me. It went from a few halves, which turned into half bottles of whisky, which turned into a bottle and then two bottles."

Mr Cotter was drinking for 15 to 20 years before he got help from Geaap.

He said: "It was only when it got so bad and it was affecting my family, my wife and two daughters that I got help.

"The drink was in charge of me. The drink was coming first, before anyone else, even my own safety.

"It was one of these times when I lifted the phone and went to the welfare centre on Easterhouse Road. I started getting help with Geaap.

"I can take a drink now, but I can be sociable, whereas one time one drink led to another and another. I just have a wee sherry now.

"Sometimes I have fallen off the wagon. But it is very rare."

Mr Cotter still remembers the feeling alcohol gave him.

"You drink not to care, but then when you wake up you are as bad as you were before and so you have to drink again.

"It is just a way of trying to protect yourself. The only way to protect yourself when you're an alcoholic is to get drunk."

Mr Cotter is now more aware of the extent of alcohol misuse among people in Scotland.

He added: "The problem lies in the kids. They are able to get a drink very easily. Where I stay, you see them coming out of the park, ten and 12 years old, out of their box. It's terrible.

"There are young girls who don't know what is happening to them when they are drunk."

Time for bold steps to be taken to tackle Scots' misuse of alcohol

KENNY MACASKILL
JUSTICE SECRETARY


TOO many excuses are made in this country for the misuse of alcohol. The dark nights and the northern climate are often blamed.

But that's shown for what it is when we look at Canada – false. Cold and dark winters there don't result in a bevvy culture and many Canadians are our kith and kin.

The time for excuses has passed and the time for action has arrived. We cannot go on as we are – the damage in our communities, as well as to our health and economy, is too great.

An alcohol policy conference in Barcelona made me reflect more on this. I saw just how different the culture is – people enjoy a glass of wine with dinner, not a bottle. An evening stroll through the Barri Gotic reinforced this – people were browsing in shops until 10pm, then going for a meal and a drink.

At the conference, I was discussing possible action with a number of other European ministers. Some of the examples were very interesting – Sabine Baetzing, the federal drug commissioner of Germany, spoke about their "apple juice law", which ensures no alcohol can be sold at a price cheaper than apple juice.

In Scotland, I wonder if this would just mean retailers would slash the price of apple juice – or Irn Bru or whatever else you choose to use – to allow alcohol to be sold more cheaply.

In Spain, higher taxes have been placed on certain spirits with a high alcohol content. Although we don't have powers to fix taxation, the idea of making higher-strength drinks more expensive is a principle I agree with. I still find it absurd that a bottle of vodka can cost just over £7, while some high-alcohol cider can be cheaper than water. This is fuelling alcohol misuse and there is plenty evidence to link low price to consumption.

It was clear to me that other countries have already taken bold action and are starting to see the benefits. The charts and tables of European comparisons provide stark evidence. In most other nations, cases of liver diseases are starting to fall, but in Scotland they are still rising. In government, we can't afford to sit back and do nothing while we watch this continue.

That's why our strategic approach to alcohol, to be published this summer, will contain a range of suggestions and firm actions designed to tackle the problem. It will consider a whole range of issues designed to change the culture around alcohol in Scotland.

We need each and every Scot to stop, think about and, if necessary, reduce their own alcohol consumption. As a government we need to take action, and we will. There won't be any easy overnight solution – changing a culture takes time.

But by changing the culture we will make Scotland safer, smarter, healthier and wealthier – and that's why we will take bold action to achieve it.


The full article contains 2454 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 00:18:40

The,..'Conspiracy' has started!, we WONT be,..'Fooled'!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 00:32:24


Soo! "Alcohol" is going to be banned altogether, just as they want to do with the cigarettes!

'AYE',...We KNOW where your,...'coming from'!
3

The Pianist,

06/05/2008 01:11:14
How much tax is raised through those purchases?
4

R. Slicker,

06/05/2008 01:19:10
Welcome to #make up a statistic.com#
5

Spock Undercover,

06/05/2008 01:35:11
Government is so focused on Pound numbers.

Time to focus on people issues perhaps?

Broon and Xander are eff you see kayed,

That is all.
6

lou from niagara,

Niagara Falls Canada 06/05/2008 01:59:20
When I view the previous comments I feel sorry for the generation that is growing up in Scotland.
7

bring them on,

06/05/2008 02:31:02
Aye, that's a good one.

All the punters who work their skin to the bone blow their hard earned wage packets on drink, and you...say it's costing the country money.

Here's an easy one

one plus one is?

sshhhhh

8

bring them on,

06/05/2008 02:45:13
Still, one thing that we can rely on...Time After Time. Ice Age after Ice Age.

Hearts lose to Falkirk
9

Bob10,

06/05/2008 03:37:19
Perhaps the Scottish Government need to look at a system whereby they create an arms length company to retail alcoholic beverages between 2% to 40% alcohol by volume. This would give them absolute control of to whom, when & where off sales took place. The downside is that only government outlets have the right to sell, (ticks off a lot of big companies and could affect party political contributions) However, the system works. Check many U.S. States and Canadian Provinces. It also creates employment opportunities in Government run Booze Stores.
10

bring them on,

06/05/2008 03:49:08
#9

Bob

That might work in they under privelage countries, but no in Scotland.

See, it has to be more straight forward.

This or that.

And if you ask me, either is OK.
11

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 06/05/2008 04:42:20
The idea for Identity cards for young people works well in Canada.

As does a higher drinking age.

I am not sure that you need to go as far government run liquor stores. The private sector is capable of selling alcohol in a responsible manner if they are properly regulated.

Setting a minimuim tariff for Alcohol at say 50p per unit of alcohol would certainly reduce the amount of cheap booze.

Changing a binge drinking culture will be a lot more difficult and will require a lot more time.
12

bring them on,

06/05/2008 04:46:05
When Santana wrote Black Magic Woman was he talking talking aboot ID cards,,, I ask you
13

Anonym,

drunk in the gutter, ranting and raving 06/05/2008 05:11:06
Huh. The majority of people in Scotland are perfectly civilised when drinking alcohol.

Every country has alcoholics and troublemakers.

But go ahead and rake in some more tax, why don't you?
14

Philmugla,

06/05/2008 05:19:26
Why all the hand wringing and outcry about the historical and increasingly problematic issues surrounding alcohol abuse. We allow all and sundry to sell alcohol, from every corner shop to the large supermarket chains and then cry wolf when the problem escalates. We say we need to tackle the problem yet where is the political will to really make the hard choices that will be required to have any impact. Big business will win out every time and the politicians do not have the courage or the politicial will to implement policies that would, at least, reduce the effects of alcohol abuse in our society.

They throw millions of pounds at the problem by creating shemes and organisations that believe that you can cure addiction by feeding drugs to addicts and educate problem drinkers how to modify their behaviour and alcohol intake. Just ask the families of problem drinkers how many have succeeded in controling their drinking over the long term, sure their will be a few however the overwhelming majority will regress within a relatively short period of time.

Amazingly, many grossly expensive, overpriced rehab clinics utilise and exploit the most effective programme of recovery ever devised and has been sucessful globally for the past seventy years and costs the taxpayer absolutely NOTHING. Respect for the principles and traditions of this wonderful fellowship mean that I cannot really let loose on the merits and potential to, at least, reduce the incidence of alcohol abuse in Scotland. The medical profession are well meaning and at times very supportive however most doctors do not fundamentally understand the problem and most problem drinkers do not fully disclose the true extent of their drinking. This issue has always been a political "hot potato" however there is hope but there needs to be the political will and much determined effort to make any substantial progress.
15

mighty,

Canada 06/05/2008 05:25:28
Get rid of the Buckfast the kids love it and so does the winos quick fix and a good high in a short time.
16

Amani_Bunduki,

Canberra 06/05/2008 05:40:27
Alcohol = a licence to be a moron.
17

fife runner,

06/05/2008 06:46:37
having had a friend die at 32 and an uncle at 28 from excessive alcohol intake i know the pain it can cause. Charles #2 try not to be so flippant in a serious discussion.
18

fife runner,

06/05/2008 06:49:41
any of you trying to be flippant go to any A&E, homes where violence is caused by it, or to high income families or non who think it is funny to get drunk and let teenage kids get drunk and you will see it crosses all social spectrums.

19

yockel,

06/05/2008 07:03:22
The drunken scot is just another tartan myth.
I am sick fed up of hearing that we have an alcohol "epidemic" in Scotland.
The real epidemic if there is one is in England and they have got it bad, a lot worse than us. Just spend a Saturday night in any of the urban areas down south and you will see what I mean. Trust MacAskill to go for the easy publicity position, he should have joined Labour.

Instead of flapping our arms, running round in small circles shreaking, what are we going to do (ban next) it would be more appropriate to step back and consider, what evidence is their for the claimed epidemic, who is promoting that evidence and why.

For example what proportion of Liver cirrhosis deaths are down to poor diet, McDonalds cirrhosis?

Consider also how many so called drink related incidents are drug related or compounded incidents.

It is the lack of social responsibility promoted by Labour since the end of WWII which is the problem not the booze. Consider a child brought up with its only eductaion in social interaction being endless hours of UK television. Would you not expect a loud mouthed, arrogant idiot with no concept of obligation?
20

Buckie,

Stirling 06/05/2008 07:17:35
Re 19. Why bother looking for elaborate alternative "explanations" for problems caused by alcohol? If it walks like a duck...
21

alexandermc,

san francisco 06/05/2008 07:28:08
Born in Scotland, went to school in Scotland, worked in the USA and became a doctor and surgeon. Family still in Scotland and I return each year. I see more kids drunk every year, 15 and 16 year olds being sick on the Royal mile and Princes Street. I see binge drinking as a game among my nephews, and nieces, I see parents not lose it "since it is not drugs" I see illnesses from smoking and drinking occupying hospital beds. Parents almost find it funny when the kids come home drunk, as long as no drugs. Please raise and enforce the age to 21. No cheap imports - you guys need the taxes to run the services. Love Scotland, got to control the binge drinking mentality,
22

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 06/05/2008 07:49:49
Several posters above seem to be 'in denial' that we do have a national alcohol problem. That other countries are worse/better is neither here nor there: we have a problem in Scotland. Facts remain chiels that winnae ding.

Let's not make excusues about poverty, England, inferiority complexes, bad parents, bad weather, bad example, etc. Plenty of Scots are exposed to all of the above and are not alcoholics.

Much heftier punishments for excess/illegal drinking; restrict outlets; insist on age proof; make drinks industry fund the medical/criminal/accident costs of drinking; drinks available only with meals; scrap cars of drunk drivers; turn drunks into pariahs; ban public drinking; etc. In other words: get tough!
23

Philmugla,

06/05/2008 07:54:38
Agree wholeheartedly with alexandermc and fife runner. Maybe yockel should the advice of fife runner and talk to the accident and emergency doctors and staff who are at the front end to this situation, particularly at weekends.

This is not just a political issue, there are many social issues to be addressed and the parental responsibility questions are just too numerous to discuss here. Many alcohol related incidents never come to the public/authorities attention because there are so many street angels and house devils who terrorise their family's behind closed doors and many (women in particular) are loathed to bring the embarrasing matter to anyone's attention. Epedemic, absolutely, and thus it has always been and is getting worse! Time to make take the tough decisions that are long overdue.
24

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 07:59:01
fife runner @#17,

"so flippant in a serious discussion"

If as it is the subject is to allow Scotland to become the,....'Jackass' of the world, Yes! I will be "flippant" about it!

Why should everyone suffer for the,..'few',?

Why should I pay,..'Super Tax' on a can of larger,?

Why should I require ID to purchase, Alcohol,?

Why should I be treated like a criminal when Purchasing Alcohol,?

Yes being 'flippant' is more than the subject deserves.

Yes if the subject and proposed ways of dealing with people drinking to much, were not of a 'School Child's' attitude, then I would be serious,

Where else in the world will we find, having a drink of wine with your meal at a restaurant like 'Mission Impossible' if the Ministers get away with some of their proposals and ..'hidden Agenda',?
25

EP,

Great Falls, MT 06/05/2008 08:03:30
Where are these young folk getting the money for all the booze? Methinks the parents have been too indulgent. Good Grief, bring back the days when as soon as you went out to work (aged 15)you had to pay your dig money then live off what you had left over!
26

,

06/05/2008 08:08:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Jings Crivens,

06/05/2008 08:32:52
Whiskey brings in £2.86 billion a year in exports. alcohol abuse costs £2.25bn now we know where the money goes
28

yockel,

06/05/2008 08:39:29
Jings I agree with Charles! Time for a wee lie down.

Posters are confusing the availablility of alcohol with its irresponsible use. If you do not want to lie in a gutter out of your skull or have sex with a van driver in the Royal Mile dont get drunk while you are out and about.
We have a behaviour problem epidemic in Scotland. It is nothing to do with any alledged traditional drinking culture. Booze is only part of it but its the easy bit for those that want to blame others for the behaviour of a few potential voters children.
Yes getting drunk does seem to be considered a bit of a sport amongst a fair proportion of youngsters but that is a choice they have made and that choice has noting to do with the booze itself. It is the mindset of the youngsters themselves which needs to change.
29

Jacqui,

Sunny Edinburgh 06/05/2008 08:42:47
#6 lou from Canada Good point
'When I view the previous comments I feel sorry for the generation that is growing up in Scotland'.

I would agree 100%.

The young girls I work with swap stories about 'being out on the piss'.

You can easily spot the 40 yr olds who look in their 60s and like their drink.

It's all very sad ... the loss of potential of this nation.

Drugs, alcohol ... additions from life. What are they running away from? Or running to?

Clean yourselves up, stand up and let the revolution begin! Freedom is just a word over here without meaning.
30

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 08:44:20
#16 - what a shallow comment.
31

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 08:46:56
#29
"It's all very sad ... the loss of potential of this nation."

A bit over-dramatic?
32

Buckfastleigh,

Cloisters Monastic 06/05/2008 08:47:28
Keep drinking our best tonic from Buckfast but in moderation and you will survive. T'is the water of life...

Excess of it and you are undone. Respect each other; and don't ever be tempted to use alcohol for recreation for it killeth flesh and soul alike.
33

albert h,

indiana 06/05/2008 09:05:55
*Please enter your comment*

Having grown up in Glasgow in the 40's I can only wonder that it has taken this long for an "alcohol abuse" problem to be recognized. The pavements were full of drunken louts every night, but especially on weekends and after fitba' matches. When I visit Scotland these days I prefer to go to Edinburgh but even then I see the well dressed couds at the pubs overdoing it.

Good luck, trying to change these "generational habits": monkey see, monkey do!
34

famie,

Australia 06/05/2008 09:13:53
Most of the unhappiness in my life is directly related to the abuse of alcohol. It definitely helped to ruin my first marriage. If you can't beat them join them and I did for a time. I am a moderate drinker these days and if it were not available I could live without it. I think there needs to me radical shifts in our thinking about alcohol be that education price increases or whatever.I am reminded every day of my life of the damage it does as here in Australia it is a huge problem accross all age groups but particularly the young. I have five grandchildren who all drink probably more than is good for them I remind them of the dangers whenever I see them. But in the end I feel helpless as far as there drinking habists go. Such a waste of human talent goes down the urinal.
35

Foo,

ejinbara 06/05/2008 09:17:41
Drink beer, smoke tabs.
36

Unimpressed one,

06/05/2008 09:21:14
"It is also likely there will be measures to crack down on discounts in supermarkets, such as imposing minimum prices."

Like to them try this one. Numpties.
37

JayJay,

Right here 06/05/2008 09:38:16
Why does Government feel the need to intervene with issues such as drink, sexual health and drugs?
After years and years, and doubtless millions and millions spent on advertising, healthcare professionals, social workers and the like, we hear that the problem has actually worsened.
I may be overly simplistic, but I was always of the view that personal choice and responsibility were key. No-one can surely make a case for being uninformed of the effects of excessive drinking, drug-taking or overly promiscuous behaviour. Yet Government policy starts off from the point of assuming that somehow "the message" is not being properly received.
It really does become farcical when Goverment policy brings us supermarkets everywhere selling discount booze, corner shops selling booze and fags to youths with no fear of reprisal from the state, kids being taught that they are free to choose whatever lifestyle they wish, celebs glorified in the press for drunken, loutish behaviour....oh I could go on, but I'd hate to come across all Daily Telegraph.
Personal responsibility needs to be restored to our society. For too long people have been encouraged to believe they can do what they like without consequence, because the state will pick up the pieces. And increasingly, in this resource deficit world, there will not be the scope to deal with the outcomes of personal choice.
38

Crewedaddy,

Cheshire 06/05/2008 09:41:58
I don't need to trust statistics, I've got eyes and they tell me there's a problem everywhere. Cheap alcohol; attractive "fun" drinks changing kids' attitudes toward alcohol - 30 years ago a young man with a pretty drink would have been unthinkable; death of the "family" because of the pressure for everyone to be active and moreover the growth of a subculture that celebrates getting wasted as a form of entertainment, whether it be through drugs or alcohol. Mash this lot together and it's a huge recipe for disaster without a quick fix.

Attitudinal and cultural changes take a long time to work their way through society. I found having a drunk walk out in front of my car 18 years ago and almost write it off then having to go through the rigmarole of the inquest and then have my insurance premium whacked up through no fault of my own a cathartic experience. I don't wish to lose control anymore if it means I kght lose it altogether.

Wholesale banning of alcohol or high prices and government offies doesn't always work. It certainly doesn't in Norway where home brewed rocket fuel is almost a way of life. It's foul stuff so the only reason to drink it is to get off your face, and that's in the country with the highest standard of living in the world. Humankind is its own worst enemy
39

Liz,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 09:48:14
There is a serious social issue here and it is not do do with the cost of alcohol.

I hope the Scottish Government are able to do more than the standard aproach of simply increasing taxes all that encourages is a tendency to the cheapest and no doubt worse for us drinks (I am thinking for example of that cider that has never been near an apple) there needs to be a fundemental shift in attitudes and responsibilties.
40

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 10:25:43
WE DO NOT NEED ANY STUPID PRICE INCREASES
WE DO NOT NEED ANY MORE BRAIN-DEAD NEW LAWS

The people who cause trouble or damage themselves due to alcohol are generally BREAKING THE LAW. Enforce the EXISTING laws and for christs sake leave the rest of us out of it.

Why should I have to suffer because of the stupidity of others? If people want to drink themselves stupid and put their lives at risk, that is THEIR problem, not mine.
41

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 06/05/2008 10:30:34
#37 Jay Jay asked "Why does Government feel the need to intervene with issues such as drink, sexual health and drugs?

Answer: 1. Because repairing the damage of such things costs the taxpayer serious money. 2. Because young childen are involved and so some adult is not acting responsibly. 3. Because we should not 'walk past on the other side' when a fellow human is in distress. 4. Because things don't have to be this way as plenty of other countries prove. 5. Because drunken louts are a national embarrassment 6. Because alcohol abuse destroys marriages, lives and self-esteem of inocent parties as well as the guilty ones.

Others may care to add to this list.

Anyone who has lost a loved one to a drunk driver would find the 'it's up to them to control themselves' defence unbearable awful.
42

ARP,

Scotland 06/05/2008 10:49:00
Alcohol is an addictive poison. It is an acquired taste and so to stop the rot, stop parents giving children alcohol and stop drinking in their presence, stop 'celebrating' with it, stop singing its praises, stop laughing at drunkards, stop caring for drunks in the streets or in hospitals, and, above all, stop drinking it yourself. That's my message to people in high places. How many MPs, MSPs, councillors, company directors and the like freeload at the taxpayers' and shareholders' expense and go on to moralise about the plight of those who follow their examples. The 'working' lunch, the bottle in the office, the quickie with the boys on the way home, the 19th hole and all that has to stop FIRST.

The poor quality of thinking in academe, in management, in government and in education is in great part due to alcoholics in seats of power and they do far more damage than do the poor sods lying on the pavement. Indeed, there would be no poor sods, were it not for the despicable ignorance, incompetence and, yes, drunkenness of those with the means of stopping the rot.
43

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

06/05/2008 10:54:48
40 Hi. We've been here before. If you drink responsibly you wont have to suffer. It's just a drink , it not an essential.

Youre right about one thing though, our law enforcement have to start treating anti social drinking behavour as a priority.

For the rest, scotland does have a problem and if you cant see it you're probably in denial.

Tougher measures are required rather than just raising taxes. Government run off licences , employee referals to counselling schemes for employees habitually hung over or on the sick. TV ads, restricting licences for pubs/clubs.

Whatever it takes. We cant solve it but we can lessen the impact. Government is someitmes about making unpopular decisions for the greater good.

In the meantime you are all my beshtesht matesh.

44

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

06/05/2008 10:57:20
42. Agree. We need to stop accepting it.
45

seals,

Glasgow 06/05/2008 11:01:21
After 15 years living in France I came back, entered a bank in Byres Road, Glasgow, enquired after Teller who was grumpy, rude to customers and decidedly grey looking. "Ah'm fine - just got a stinking hangover" he replied. Yeah, sure the French get drunk too but never admit to it as it is seen as not socially acceptable. Still can't get my head around the young (and not so young) uns announcing they are gonna go out and get rat-arsed!! The demon has finally caught up on me and I have joined a support group on DailyStrength.org to try and tackle my excessive drinking (along with AA meetings) However, for a long time I had accepted my regular drunkenness in this country where it is the norm for many and where it is so easily forgiven. When I was young in France we used to go out, for dinner, cinema, theatre, weekends wind-surfing, ski-ing or hill-walking - drink just wasn't on the agenda, except for a really nice wine with dinner

Help ---- we really do need to divert the nation's energy from drinking into something more healthy / productive / enjoyable / fruitful ... and, please, it really is not funny for adults to be out of control and young uns to grow up thinking: "way to go!!!"
46

Lewciver,

06/05/2008 11:06:13
No need to raise the age limit. ID cards for all men between 45 and 64 is all that is needed.
47

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

06/05/2008 11:08:18
According to the best economists on the planet , the human population needs to stabilise at 8 million ove rthe next 100 years.. we're getting closer by the minute.

Perhaps its a good thing that unproductive scottish (and other) drunks opt for informal euthanasia. Discuss.
48

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 11:18:56
Mario:

"If you drink responsibly you wont have to suffer..."

Yes I will, if they increase taxes, restrict licencing hours and introduce yet more curbs on drinking---all of which has been mooted by the antis.

Can they really not see that additional legislation will hit the law abiding majority whilst having little or no effect on the idiot minority?
49

Alan Reid,

NZ 06/05/2008 11:28:31
45, spot on!
50

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

06/05/2008 11:43:46
48 responsible drinking equates to about a pint and a half a day. Assuming you drink responsibly it wont affect you, anymore than an increase in the price of tea.
51

paulr,

edinburgh 06/05/2008 12:05:16
In the case studies mentioned, drink is not the cause of the problems, it is a symptom.
Work related stress, grief and a basic character flaw that makes these people vulnerable and addictive by nature.
I have drink in the house and I can count on the fingers of one hand how often i open a bottle through the year. We go out socialising, with work or just with friends, but it is as simple to order a cola as it is to order a vodka.
So please stop spinning the facts to demonise drink and concentrate on the real problems that these people suffer from.
52

EK,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 12:30:02
It's good to see people finally facing up to the problem of alcohol abuse and the scourge of anti-social behaviour which is often linked.

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

1-No more excuses for why we drink so much. Everyone has problems, other parts of the world are dark at night and in winter, and most of the world is poverty-stricken. Most youngsters seem to drink for the sake of it "to get wasted, rat-ar*ed" - think of the wasted money (literally "pis*ing it away) - how much of that money could you give to charity, and help less fortunate people everywhere!

2-Think of all the lost time and work potential. People could do something useful for their country (which they are supposedly so proud of - or does that only work for Scottish football and rugby???) instead of spending Sat night and all of sunday drinking/ nursing a hangover and being lazy generally.

3-Society needs to frown on alcohol abuse, not encourage it. This means the ordinary man and woman in the street all the way up to the politicians. You need TV, radio and newspaper campaigns to fight it.

4-ENFORCE all the relevant existing laws starting from NOW (use the 2.3 Billion Pounds it is costing us) eg. anything from Breach of the Peace, Serving alcohol to Drunk People, Selling to under-age people, people causing disturbances because they are drunk etc. Make people PAY for the damage they cause. Or their parents. Or punish them in some way (mini-prisons? - cleaning streets? removing graffiti?)

5-Bring in new stricter laws to close down city centre hot-spots (have you seen the state of Edinburgh's City Centre on a fri or Sat night? It's a disgrace - no tourist will come here again).

If necessary, (ie for the "Human Rights Brigade") build a complex of nightclubs on some waste ground, have dedicated bus services so that people can be ferried there and back without affecting law-abiding decent citizens, and let them get as drunk as they want. (a bit like football matches used to be
53

EK,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 12:34:14
Oops there was a bit more but obviously I ranted on too much! Basically the last bit suggested the drunk people could be brought back to their neighbourhoods by public transport (dedicated to drunks) to keep tehm out of harm's way.
Thanks for listening.
(PS I am not an old fuddy-duddy (I have been accused of this whenever i write unpopular comments like this)- I am a nice and popular young-ish man who works hard, has the odd half pint and has plenty of money left over to be content - family and friends oriented).
54

Guga II,

Rockall 06/05/2008 12:55:18
It seems to me that not only is Scotland not the only country with a booze problem, but that the problem is much more widespread than many care to admit. It happens in England, Australia, Norway and many other countries. There is even a booze culture in Saudi Arabia amongst expats working there (like Norway, they make their own booze).

The standard knee-jerk reaction by governments is, of course, to raise the tax on everything, or ban it. neither is appropriate, or workable in this case. Moreover, waste of space types, like Kenny MacAskill, never listen to anyone. He has the New Labour disease of arrogance and disdain for the public.

The obvious solution is to enforce exisiting laws whereby it is an offence for a pub or retailer to sell alcohol to anyone who is obviously inebriated. It is also an offence to sell alcohol to underage drinkers. These laws need to be enforced properly, and the fines raised quite substantially. Repeat offenders should also lose their licence.

This, of course, presents a problem for fools like Kenny MacAskill. Rather than enforce existing, and very adequate legislation, all people like him can think of is trying to get some kudos by introducing new legislation.
55

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

06/05/2008 13:18:42
People's lives are ruined by excessive alcohol consumption...some will find themselves dying of multiple organ failure due to alcoholism...others may end the lives of complete strangers in the street because of alcohol fuelled rage and violence...

But young people will never stop 'getting rat ersed' whether they are students, working, unemployed or whatever..it is part of the rites of youth...the passage of youth...only problem is...

...not all of them will survive it....
56

Luke Skywalker,

Scotland 06/05/2008 13:29:43
If a retail outlet is caught selling alcohol to an under age person does it lose its licence?
57

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

06/05/2008 13:33:04
The most important comment in the above story is this :-
"If you pour enough booze down your neck over a long enough period you will become clinically anxious and clinically depressed"

This is true. In other words , a lot of the stress you are suffering and seeking to relieve with a few pints is caused by alcohol.

Maybe obvious to some but just wanted to point that out. Its amazing how simpler life is when you cut it out.
58

JayJay,

Right here 06/05/2008 13:42:42
#41
Sorry mate, but while I get your drift, my point is that we seem to spend many billions trying to "solve" problems only to find that they are getting worse.
Unless someone is going to start doing something pretty radical, I will feel quite happy sitting here assuming that this latest initiative will just result in more taxation, because that is about as radical as Government seems to get in this country.
Why is it so wrong to require people to accept responsibility not just for what they do, but the impact that it might have on other people? Why can't our judiciary force people to face up to the carnage their drinking creates and make reparation for it?
I do not doubt that there is a problem at the heart of the nations psyche over drink, but any recovering alchoholic would tell you (and my father was one) that the first step is that YOU recognise that you have a problem, and YOU do something about it. I do not believe the government can seriously influence personal choice. If the could, why would anyone smoke?
59

HolyRude,

06/05/2008 14:05:38
Perhaps we should stop rewarding drug addicts and alcoholics. Stop giving them money when they beg in the street. Stop supplying them with accommodation and disability allowance - paid for by the tax-payer. Punish them when they make their neighbours life hell by behaving in an anti-social manner. Generally make their life difficult and then they make take responsiblity for their own actions. As it stands there is no incentive for then to kick the habit. This is turn may help young people to re-think getting rat-arsed!
60

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 14:56:43
I wonder what they would do if they could wave a magic wand and everyone started being a model citizen and this 'problem' disappeared.

Would they wipe £2.25billion of our tax bill ?

This is a precursor to a tax grab or some militant alcohol abuse or religious group trying to prohibition installed ....

Why are politicians so transparent and why does everything they do 'for our own good' have a ridiculous price tag attached ?!
61

Guga II,

Rockall 06/05/2008 14:59:39
#59 HolyRude.

It's not just the DLA that alcoholics are given. If they are registered alcoholics, the government gives them an extra £10 a day to buy booze; over and above their DLA.
62

Michael Powell,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 15:10:48
Scotland's alcohol abuse may cost billions of pounds, but that may be due to the price of a pint at the Holiday Inn!
63

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 15:11:08
Mario @ #50:

"responsible drinking equates to about a pint and a half a day..."

Don't be rediculous.

Responsible drinking equates to not letting drink adversely affect your life or that of others. It means that if you drink, you HANDLE your drink, like a man should and you don't behave like a moron. It also means that if you have to work the next day, you don't hang one on.

Even if I only drank 1.5 pints a day (sometimes I drink nothing per day) then ANY price rise AT ALL or ANY additional restrictions AT ALL are TOTALLY unacceptable.

I repeat... Whay should responsible people be made to suffer because of the actions of morons?
64

Patrick Joseph Cullinane,

Harrow, Middlesex. 06/05/2008 15:17:03
#29 Jacqui - I agree with you 100%

We all know alcohol is ONLY the symptom of a problem; therefore, what is the actual problem?

ANSWER: - Please peruse the following links very carefully and see how a law abiding, non drinking Irishman, who had overpaid his tax was treated in the UK:

Report by Phillip Inman of The Guardian, Jobs & Money, Saturday May 10, 2003:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_jobs_and_money/story/0,,952455,00.html

Report by Phillip Inman of The Guardian, Jobs & Money, Saturday May 10, 2003:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_jobs_and_money/story/0,,952457,00.html

Tax experts call for a bill of rights by Phillip Inman of The Guardian, Jobs & Money, Saturday July 2, 2005: http://money.guardian.co.uk/tax/story/0,1456,1519315,00.html

Report by Phillip Inman of The Guardian, Jobs & Money, Saturday February 12, 2005:
http://money.guardian.co.uk/tax/story/0,1456,1411088,00.html

Report by Phillip Inman of The Guardian, Jobs & Money, Saturday January 20, 2001:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2001/jan/20/features.jobsmoney4

By Chris Fogarty: JUSTICE FOR THE IRISH IN ENGLAND?:
http://www.irishamericannews.com/columns/froe/froe1100.htm

UK police held secret Irish blacklist:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/12/283193.html

The Police in the UK have perverted the course of justice by failing in their duty to prosecute the known criminals in the above case. And the ‘Independent’ Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) have done nothing whatsoever about the Police failing to do their duty.

CCTV EVERYWHERE except in ‘OUR’ Courts the very place justice is supposed to be seen to be done.

As Jacqui said: “Freedom is just a word over here without meaning”
65

Axl,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 15:19:52
It's roasting out there today, anyone fancy a pint?
66

James F. Blake,

Oshawa 06/05/2008 17:09:11
Drunken Scotsmen? Who'd have thought?
67

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

06/05/2008 17:22:02
63 drinks a drug you radge, and people have different tolerance levels. Theres nothing manly about it.

Anyway , your argument is stupid and you are a neanderthal. Petrol and booze eh ?

Grow up.
68

Allan(handofgod137),

06/05/2008 17:51:24
Once again we skirt round the real problem, which is the socialist nanny state, which for years has been encouraging people to opt out of taking responsibility for their own lives and actions. A good firest step towards combating this, would be to stop paying benifit to those who can't feed 'em but still breed 'em.
69

EK,

06/05/2008 18:12:29
No 63 - Alternative Fuel head.
Everyone has to pay for miscreants in society - you already pay huge sums of money in your taxes for the police to maintain order and for the legal system etc. I'm sure that people who don't have their own children have paid for other children's education via their taxes - maybe even yours! That's the way society runs - we all have to pay for the benefit of the general good. If that means putting taxes on alcohol among other things then so be it. You don't have to drink so much anyway! It's actually a poison.
70

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 06/05/2008 19:05:15
So what happened to the Continetal cafe style culture that New Labour promised when they brought in 24 hour drinking?
71

Jed Zeppelin,

Dundee 06/05/2008 20:09:15
£2.5bn??? pfft - that's merely the financial cost. the untold misery that drinkers cause is the real problem. I see it every day. Not that anyone will take heed - ostritch theory and all that.

...and I've yet to meet a drinker that hasn't bugged the life out of me with their 'banter'.

the craic? no thanks.
72

danielrober,

06/05/2008 20:14:19
I feel sorry for drinkers that have problems. I like a scotch, a beer, a cider and some wine, but not all together. Over a month chill out and relax, not zonk out. Evening and weekend drinking, after a hards days work is okay. During the week i'll even go into a pub and order a pint and some food. If i only have an hour its a swift half and yep a packet of crisps

It's called respondsible drinking. If we could have people without former drinking problems educating kids that might be a good trend. But good luck to the guy that changed his life. Well done.
73

DaveA,

Forfarshire 06/05/2008 20:37:50
This is how they started off on smoking, so you drinkers can look forward to social exclusion and having your rights curtailed. Look on the bright side you still will allowed to drink at home, probably and not inflict your dirty "passive drinking" on me.
74

Axl,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 21:23:40
#72

Well said.
75

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/05/2008 22:40:12
Mario, if you can only come out with rediculous comments and insults, there really is no hope for you.

EK:

Yes. I pay my share towards the police. The police are supposed to ENFORCE THE LAW. The alledged problems mentioned here arise in the main because PEOPLE ARE BREAKING THE LAW.

Let the police do their jobs, for which all of us have paid them. Introducing new laws or increasing tax is totally rediculous and WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

Why the hell should I have to pay extra because of the actions of a minority of morons? Anyone with any brains at all KNOWS that raising tax on alcohol is just a means of generating extra cash. Nothing more, nothing less. If they are serious about the damage that alcohol is causing, then BAN IT and then deal with the public uprising, riots and crime as a result.

The majority WANT alcohol and the majority consume it responsibly. A minority cause trouble. Deal with them and leave the rest of us out of it.
76

mandyv,

banitland 06/05/2008 23:12:47
It is hard now to believe any figures anymore, too many lies were told with the smoking ban, this has the same ring to it, just a differant product!
freedom2choose.info must have a crystal ball. I believe this was mentioned in the estimated 50,000 online comments.
All this scare-mongering is enough to drive you to drink. Sort out the trouble makers, or is that too difficult.
77

Rob Simpson,

UK 07/05/2008 01:10:39
To anyone who thought it would end with smoking - you were warned, welcome to the new puritanical age.