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Crewe and Nantwich by-election: Cameron jubilant, Brown defiant as Tories record big win

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Published Date: 23 May 2008
GORDON Brown said today the message from the Crewe and Nantwich by-election defeat was "clear and unequivocal".
The Prime Minister said the public wanted the Government to address economic challenges.

But he brushed off questions about his leadership.

Mr Brown said: "The message we are getting is people are concerned.

"They are concerned about food prices, concerned about petrol prices and concerned about what is happening to the economy."

He said that the Government was working towards addressing these problems.

The Prime Minister added that his task was to take the economy through difficult times ahead.

"The message is clear from voters people want us to address very real concerns."

He continued: "The message of the British public is clear and unequivocal. They want us to address these challenges."

He said that the task he had been trusted with was to "take the economy through difficult times ahead".

He added that we had to have "fairness for all and prosperity for the British people".

A jubilant David Cameron hailed the result as a another "remarkable victory".

The Tories overturned a 7,000 Labour majority to take the Crewe and Nantwich seat with a massive 17.6% swing from Labour.

The Conservative leader said the campaign marked the "end of New Labour".

And he vowed that he would not betray the trust of the thousands of voters who turned out to vote Conservative for the first time.

He said that he would now work to put together a "broad coalition" to oust the Labour Government and secure a return to power for the Tories at the next general election.

"Just like in the local elections, just like in the London mayoralty election, thousands of people came to vote for the Conservative Party for the first time and my message to those people is 'We will not let you down'," he told reporters as he left his west London home en route for Crewe.

"I want to go on building this broad coalition for change so we can bring our country better government," he said.

City of London Police said in a statement: "We accept the judges' decision. We have already reviewed our procedures and we will be working closely with the City of London magistrates to ensure that warrants meet current guidelines.

"Having consulted with the Fraud Prosecution Service, we are satisfied that nothing contained within the judgment has any impact on the main body of evidence being gathered in relation to the investigation. We will continue to work closely with the Fraud Prosecuition Service and counsel throughout.

"As this is a live investigation, we cannot comment further at present."

The full article contains 454 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Steve,

23/05/2008 08:03:41
Ha ha!!
2

hertscot,

23/05/2008 08:09:52
Oh god!
3

11+failed,

the pans 23/05/2008 08:20:05
How could the voters of Crewe be so stupid? Do they not realise that Gordon having abolished boom and bust and kept inflation down to under 3% is the ideal leader for difficult times? Already he has abolished these generous company pension schemes, pensioners who can no longer afford to run cars or heat their homes can travel for free on the buses and keep warm at the same time. The soaring cost of food is a problem but I am sure Gordon will be opening soup kitchens across the country to help the most needy without the need to subsidise the well off.
4

Toast,

23/05/2008 08:42:14
Not in the least surprised,Brown it can only get worse,if you'd had the guts to call an election last autumn you would have had a reduced majority but be in power for the next four years,now you are going to be wiped out and probably never regain power,what price an indicisive,arrogant PM.
5

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

23/05/2008 08:43:35
Whilst the Tories should be very happy at the result they should not believe that it was somehow a vote for them to govern. This was very much about giving the government a kicking.

There is no way I can see Brown lasting until the next election - expect a substantial stalking horse candidate such as Charles Clark.

Brown has a lot of problems to overcome. He is ultimately blamed for things that, quite bluntly, are not his fault. Rising fuel prices , food prices, council taxes and utility prices are all due to factors beyond his control. That's not to say he is blameless - he could have done a lot more, a lot sooner to cushion the effects of these increases in the cost of living.

But that's not Brown's main problem - his main problem is that he does not look like he is in control. he flounders from one fiasco to the next, reacting to events instead of setting the agenda. There is no doubt he has a severe image problem - he does not come across well, he is not at all inspirational and leading from the front. When he is being interviewed I cringe - he speaks as if he is a goldfish out of the water - watch and you will see what I mean. There is also the suspicion that some voters don't like to see the Scottish mafia in charge - that they would prefer an English PM - someone who they can actually relate to.

Labour may be down but I would not write them off yet - but that can only happen if Brown goes and is replaced by someone who can genuinely relate to voters and vice versa. That rules out a few of the obvious candidates such as that overgrown schoolboy Millaband.

My bet - next leader of the Labour Party will be Alan Johnson. He has actually worked in a real job - unlike many Labour MPs - he has a strong trade union background and has a repuation for saying how it is. Oh - and he's a Londoner which, if we are honest, makes him more electable than any of Labour's Scottish mafia.
6

Boy Wonder,

23/05/2008 08:47:07
In a General Election, Cameron's Crew(e) won't do as well in Scotland ... thankfully. We remember the vicious Tories of old and will never trust them again!
7

brownlie,

23/05/2008 08:49:57
6 Fed

When you refer to Charles Clarke as substantial I take it you mean in bulk rather than in intellect?
8

,

23/05/2008 08:50:52
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9

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 23/05/2008 08:55:05
Excellent result. A good drubbing for Brown, who must rank as the most incompetent chancellor and PM except Michael Foot maybe.

It's no use blaming America and the "global economy" for our ills. This is his strategy for drawing attention away from his own failings to retain reserves in the good times instead of blowing them on failed socialist policies and "resdistribution", his backhand ways of taxing the earning population to the point where a good 50-60% of what you earn now goes to the state, his wrecking of pension funds and so on.

Now we need a good Tory win in England with a sound SNP majority in Scotland which will squeeze out this corrupt and failed government for a good long time.
10

11+failed,

the pans 23/05/2008 09:01:02
6 The Federalist
"He is ultimately blamed for things that, quite bluntly, are not his fault. Rising fuel prices , food prices, council taxes and utility prices are all due to factors beyond his control"
Curious how when world events were favourable it was all down to Brown's brilliant handling of the economy. Even his most vaunted achievement of handing control of interest rates to the MPC is looking a little tarnished!
11

Nikostratos,

23/05/2008 09:10:31
#3 Fed

Are you referring to a certain facial action Gordon's has when speaking. My wife pointed this out to me a while ago and i can not stop noticing it with fascination. I am surprised nobody has comment on this before given the potential for uniformed ridicule.
12

Alan B,

23/05/2008 09:12:52
#11+failed

"Even his most vaunted achievement of handing control of interest rates to the MPC is looking a little tarnished!"

Why is that looking tarnished?

That is the only good thing the guy has done. It was everything else he did as chancellor that was poor.
13

Paddi,

23/05/2008 09:13:35
Hazel Blears last night said the result was due to voters feeling the “pinch” and the economic winds blowing from the US as well as high energy and food prices. That’s missing the main point , what’s done it for Labour is the never ending tax increases coupled with little to show for this as well as the insistence that pay deals should remain around 2 / 2.5%.

Labour, once again have been found out, the party of tax and spend, the party of financial mismanagement. Nothing to do with global economic conditions Mrs Blears, you tax us too much and we get nothing back in return.
14

Alan B,

23/05/2008 09:15:18
#The Fed

"Whilst the Tories should be very happy at the result they should not believe that it was somehow a vote for them to govern. This was very much about giving the government a kicking."

U could say that most of the time opposition parties win general elections. Enough people simply grow tired of the perceived incompetence of the governing party.
15

Alan B,

23/05/2008 09:18:33
#Paddi

"Nothing to do with global economic conditions Mrs Blears, you tax us too much and we get nothing back in return. "

So why did they win such big a majority in general election in 2005, the fact they tax too much and we get nothing back was obvious back then too.

I agree with the The Fed this is anti labour rather than some great appeal of the tory party.
16

,

23/05/2008 09:31:08
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17

Scotcelt,

Sheffield 23/05/2008 09:31:43
The facts of the matter are that politics is a dirty business & whoever is in power needs the capacity to duck, dive, lie & survive at any cost. Given that this has always been & always will be the case, we are reduced to choosing whoever we consider to be the lesser evil. Cameron is pretty, articulate & (like Blair) has no problems moving the goalposts in whichever direction appears politically astute. Brown in comparison is not at all pretty, poor on his feet & appears to lack the guile which any successful leader needs in order to survive. My feeling is that if I needed a babysitter for the night, David would be my man. However, if I wanted someone to advise me about how to set up and run a business, Gordon would be preferable. So all I have to do now (in terms of voting) is to work out whether running the country is more akin to the skills of babysitting or running a business. Not easy.......
18

Paddi,

23/05/2008 09:35:37
#18 That’s not true, their majority was substantially cut in 2005 , if there had been a visble opposition they'd have done much worse. What is true is that continuous tax increases become increasingly more and more burdensome as they’re raised, we're now taxed more than any other time, but according to Mr Ed Balls "so what"

It’s that out of touch arrogance that leads to change. I do agree with your point that in the end people grow tired of the incumbents, but they need a reason to tire.Tax is that reason, as John Prescott said "we're all middle class now" and that class is the aspirational class, move away from the bottom and look up. Tax and spend doesnt fit to these aspirations
19

Ugly George,

23/05/2008 09:39:53
14 Alan B
I tend to agree giving control to the MPC is one of Gordon Brown's few achievements. His problem has been that he is, at heart, merely another tax and spend socialist. This was not apparent at first as his tax increases were rather more subtle than previous Labour govts but after a period of time the effect of them became evident.

He has then thrown £billions at public services with little, if any, overall benefit to the nation. Some of his expenditure measures have been very profligate. He introduced the EMA (education maintenance allowance) to encourage children from lower income families to stay on at school. This is now paid to some children who are at expesive fee paying schools - the parents are separated - the father pays the school fees and the child lives with the mother who has a lower income and thus qualifies for an EMA.
20

Doh,

23/05/2008 09:40:11

Another well heeled Tory.

21

Alan B,

23/05/2008 09:46:53
#Paddi

"I do agree with your point that in the end people grow tired of the incumbents, but they need a reason to tire"

Thought i said that in

"Enough people simply grow tired of the perceived incompetence of the governing party."


While i agree with ur sentiments regarding tax and inefficient spending i do not actually know if that is the reason people actually change. They have consistently raised tax and got back in.

Brown was ahead in the polls after taking over. Cameron was in severe problems all summer. Then the pendumlum has swung.

Personally i think it is more to do with the perceived inability of brown as a pm. His handling of nothern rock. The non election, meaning that he is protrayed as weak. This has lead to a bad press. This probably matters more anything.

A lot of people do not really follow politics and are swayed by the media. Much of the incompetence that followed blair did not seem to attach to him.
22

11+failed,

the pans 23/05/2008 09:48:35
14 Alan B
"Why is that looking tarnished?"
Did you expect mortgage interest rates to rise while the MPC lowered rates from 5.75% to 5%?
23

Alan B,

23/05/2008 09:50:38
#Ugly George

I am not a brown supported. I consider myself centre right politically and would rather have a low tax economy.

The thing with Brown was he adopted the tory financial expenditure plans of the first 2 yrs. Even the tories (clarke) said he would not have stuck to his own targets. He gained the name of an iron chancellor but then completely changed economic policy and started throwing money at everying building huge deficits that broke his own financial rules.
24

11+failed,

the pans 23/05/2008 09:54:28
17 Peter Baleares,

"Do you mean that thing he does with his bottom lip"
I thought he sucked pan drops when speaking instead of his usual nail biting.
25

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/05/2008 09:54:29
6 Devolutionalist

Yer simply and idiot not only dont you know what a Federation is you dont recognise a massive political swing when it clearly manifests itself.
Scots will have a very clear choice at the next General Election to vote for the Tories in Scotland or the SNP as the only viable opposition to them.
New Labour are finished for the foreseeable future and support for devolution will only see another Tory party neglecting Scotland with its Little Englander attitude.
No doubts about it this time its either the SNP or a further 10 years plus of Tory misrule in Scotland.
26

Alan B,

23/05/2008 09:55:21
#11+failed

That has nothing to do with whether the chancellor sets interest rates or an independent central bank.

I support an independent central bank as the tend to lead to much better monetary policy. In the uk we had a history of governments dropping interest rates a yr before an election. They create a mini boom. Then after the election they raise interest rates to stop the associated inflation created from growing the economy faster than its productive capacity. This was very damaging, particularly as governments mismanaged that and plunged us into recessions.

The banks mortgage rates not dropping in line with lower base rates by the BOE is not to do with the setting of these rates, but the liquidity of the financial sector.
27

Publius,

London 23/05/2008 09:59:17
#9
Your nom de plume is repulsive but your point about polls is interesting. I suspect some polls are overestimating the number of people who intend to vote Labour. The main telephone pollsters - Populus and ICM - say that some Labour voters won't admit to it in a phone conversation with a stranger. These pollsters try to compensate for these 'shy voters' by weighting the results in Labour's favour.
The main internet pollster - YouGov - says that the anonymity of the net means that they do not have to worry about shy voters. So YouGov does not weigh its results in Labour's favour. For what it's worth YouGov got much nearer to the final result than the other pollsters, though even they underestimated the Tory lead.

If YouGov is right, then Labour really is in deep doo doo.

28

James.com,

Clifton 23/05/2008 10:02:48
If there was a similar swing from Labour to the SNP in Scotland how many Scottish Labour MPs would there be in Westminster?
29

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 23/05/2008 10:12:28
I can detect the start of another Tory/SNP "arrangement".
30

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 23/05/2008 10:14:37
33

WUM, to what are you referring? A repeat of the 1979 collusion/sell out?
31

Luke Skywalker,

23/05/2008 10:15:17
Scary. With the English National Party doing well down south and the Sentimental Nonsense Party trying to do well here the end of the United Kingdom is nigh. United we stand, divided we fall. Divide and rule. Europe in waiting maybe?
32

Mack1,

Carlisle 23/05/2008 10:20:14
Progress at last towards independence for England; with a bit of luck the West Lothian question should be academic after the next general election.

Blears was saying on Question Time last night that Labour was "listening" to the voters concerns about fuel and food inflation, etc. Unfortunately, for Brown and his bunch of incompetents, they can listen as much as they like but can do nothing to ameliorate their current problems: There is no money left in the kitty after 11 years of wasting huge amounts of our money on public sector spending - sorry, investment - and £5bn annually on consultants.

A courageous prime minister could save billions by scrapping ID cards and other IT projects, but that's about as likely as Brown attending a decision-making course.


33

megz,

glasgow 23/05/2008 10:20:52
Labour MPs must really be worried now, such a safe seat taken so easily, how many will be fearing for their wallets....i mean jobs in the next election?
34

JayJay,

Right here 23/05/2008 10:21:53
Another victory for the NuLab strategists.
"Right lads, lets get the old MPs daughter in. After all, the daft prols will vote for anything in a red rosette, and at least this time they'll recognise the name. Then we can do a campaign that suggests we love the working class and the Tories are all toffs. Never mind that our candidate is more of a toff than the Tory guy...the prols will never find out that our girl is a Lady, lives in a giant hoose 180 miles from the constituency".
Yes, well done lads. As if Brown's handling of the 10p tax issue, fuel duty, energy bills and such like wasn't enough of a head start for the Tories.
35

Fairfax,

23/05/2008 10:26:58
Publius (30): "The main telephone pollsters - Populus and ICM - say that some Labour voters won't admit to it in a phone conversation with a stranger."

If I recall correctly, there was a similar problem estimating the Conservative vote in 1992. Once this happens, polls become even more dubious.
36

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 23/05/2008 10:27:09
34

Patrick, how dare you suggest that there was collusion in 1979. It was an open alliance.
37

Alan B,

23/05/2008 10:33:29
#41 Yes vote labour and we got 17 yrs of tory rule.

vote snp, u get scottish independence and whichever party scotland chooses at an election.
38

John S,

23/05/2008 10:37:08
Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman said "Our response will be to listen to people's concerns, to recognise that people are worried about their prospects for the future and to act on their concerns to re-double our efforts."
Does she mean re-double the Labour Party's efforts to listen to people's concerns ?
The e-petition shows that my government is listening - Tony Blair - February 18 2007
Gordon Brown yesterday pledged a new direction for Britain under a "humble" government which will listen and learn. 12 May 2007
And by listening and learning, I want to become a voice for communities far beyond.17 May 2007
GB has pledged he will lead a listening government, 2 June 2007
Brown said he will continue to listen and learn from the British people to deliver changes to the country. June 28, 2007
Now many will recall that when I took over as Prime Minister I emphasised that the government must listen and the government must learn. September 2007
The responsibility, however, is to listen to people and to exercise that power with responsibility.October 2007
GB will today tell Premier League bosses planning to play games abroad: "You must listen to the fans." February 2008
He said: "We're listening to what the people of this country say to keep inflation low and therefore interest rates low. April 14,2008
GB insists today he is "always ready to listen" as he moves to unite his troops ahead of crucial local elections. 27 April 2008
GB "It's been a very tough verdict, we've got to listen and learn."May 04, 2008
Not everyone hates Gordon Brown. “He listens to our music every day,” says his friend, the Bee Gee Robin Gibb. May 16, 2008
39

megz,

glasgow 23/05/2008 10:39:20
labour did that to themselves in '79 so give it a rest with that tired old lie, i know you are probably hurting from last nights humiliation but there's always next season.
40

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 23/05/2008 10:39:36
I was one of those idiots duped into voting New Labour in '97 and for this I am truly truly sorry. I will never vote Labour again in my life and my family and most of my friends say the same.

The one heartening thing was seeing Labour slaughtered last night - it felt even better than seeing Labour win in '97 and now Gordon Brown should find a speck of dignity in his character (there must be a little one somewhere) and call an election and let us throw them all out NOW.
41

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 23/05/2008 10:40:27
42

We all know who gave us 17 years of Tory misrule.
42

Geoff,

sa 23/05/2008 10:43:23
7Boy Wonder-we remember the"Vicious Tories of OLD" The emphasis should be on the old part. I am not a party mn but can not understand hpow many of you harp on about Thatcher and the old Tories. There is virtually nothing to seperate the NuTories from NuLabour.You guys should get over the hatcher thing. If Scots in their droves could have voted for Blair then there is no reason why they can not vote for Cameron. I emphasise I do not necessarily endorse either but you need to update your predjudices in line with the radical change in british mainstream political parties. They all sit somewhere in the middle!
43

Geoff,

sa 23/05/2008 10:44:13
Freudian slip of note-should have been THATCHER thing not Hatcher thing!
How embarassing!
44

Geoff,

sa 23/05/2008 10:46:38
35 Luke-dont worry Luke there is life in the Union yet!
45

Alan B,

23/05/2008 10:52:05
#46 "We all know who gave us 17 years of Tory misrule."

We do. U would think labour show humility given what it inflicted on scotland.

Although we should not tar all labour with the same brush there were those prepared to stand up for scotland and broke away to form a scottish labour party.

46

,

23/05/2008 10:52:29
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47

Paddi,

23/05/2008 10:55:25
#24, if you care to read what i said, you'll see that i acknowlwdge your point "Enough people simply grow tired of the perceived incompetence of the governing party."


"it's the economy, stupid"
48

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 10:56:07
The obvious strategy for Labour is to change their leader, and no doubt we’ll be hearing more and more about discontent as the months go by, although I understand that the word from Westminster is that there’s no prospect of a coup against Brown in the immediate future.

This worked for the Tories when Major was able to win the ’92 election against all the odds, but I have news for Labour: you’ve already tried that one! Blair has already “gone the way of Thatcher”, ie he was forced out before a time of his choosing to make way for a leader who brought with him a temporary surge of support for his party.

All in all, I feel that the trough which Labour have hit is part of the traditional cycle of renewal in British politics and that the party would do well to continue as they are for the next couple of years, consoling themselves that a period in opposition can only be an opportunity for renewal. Mind you, I’d have said the same thing when Labour lost power at Holyrood, but it hasn’t quite worked out that way (to date!)
49

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/05/2008 10:59:58
33

Aye hopefully between them they can negociate a suitable split in the UK assets during Independence negociations.
50

Nikostratos,

23/05/2008 11:14:42
#17 Peter Baleares,

Yes thats the one i find myself unable to listen to him speaking whilst watching his 'tic'
51

labour slagg--I vote labour,

23/05/2008 11:24:24
I believe the labour fightback is based on a council tax freeze followed by a local yes a local income tax.
And then a referendum on keeping the 'Union'

Oh but will vote against trams for london.

And will call people numptys
52

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 23/05/2008 11:30:43
I don't blame Broon for his facial tic or blindness in one eye or for his weird curled mouth but I find his hands creepy, like when he speaks at the dispatch box.

That's all personal stuff but with his uncaring arrogance, incompetance and control freakery added on top I have to ask how in God's name did he ever float to the top (perhaps I just answered my own question).
53

Ananurhing,

23/05/2008 11:31:20
"The message is clear from voters people want US to address very real concerns."

Not so clear and unequivocal then!

Brown Brown,.........deeper in brown.
54

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 11:37:08
#13 Nikostratos: I understand that Brown’s facial action is down to some kind of a disability: I think one side of his face is paralysed, although I’m no doctor. This is why it’s (quite rightly) rarely mentioned in the media in these ultra pc times.
55

,

23/05/2008 11:44:19
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56

Alan B,

23/05/2008 11:47:16
#59 Brown is blind in one eye after some rugby accident.
57

Brian M,

Edinburgh 23/05/2008 11:55:33
Broon said "The message of the British public is clear and unequivocal. They want us to address these challenges."

Still trying to pull his "British" illusion.

Last night was a message from the English that they do not want a scotsman as PM, particularly as Scotland has its own parliament and government
58

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 23/05/2008 12:04:04
There is a possibility that Labour might be heading for 3rd party status - assuming the libdems get their act together.

When Labour got into power in 97 I said to someone what they were doing was very risky long term.

Labour had ditched socialism and was courting big business, but still believed in a big (and therefore expensive and interfering) state

Traditional Labour people were voting for Labour - because it was Labour and they still made the right noises. The Tories deserved a kicking and voters more inclined to Tory instead turned to Labour because they had ditched far leftism and wanted to follow Tory spending for the next few years.

In one sense it is a 'recipe' for success. Old Labour supporters vote for you, and many Tory types vote for you. So massive landslide victories.

The only problem is that Labour no longer stood for anything (except 'anything to retain power' mantra). Whilst the spin lasted old type labour voters could still believe Labour represented the working man; and Tory types could believe Brown's prudence. But it is all an illusion. Labour don't represent working classes and Brown was never prudent.

Labour ditched socialism, but still believed in an interfering and expensive state. When people begin to realise this then 1) Traditional Labour voters will reject them and 2) Traditional Tory voters will reject them.

Because Labour don't actually stand for anything - then ultimately no-one will stand by them. But it takes time for voters to realise this - namely when the spin begins to wear off.

The Tories were rejected in 1997 - too much sleaze, too long in power and a nasty image. But they still stood for core values and hence they were bound to rebound.

But Labour are increasingly being rejected because people are seeing they have no values. Who rallies for an empty flag? If you alienate your core vote by rejecting core values when the tide turns who will be there?
59

kimba,

23/05/2008 12:10:18
Are you all looking forward to a conservative government,England is!
60

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 12:15:45
#61 Alan B: the paralysis of part of his face is less mentioned than the blindness in one eye.

#64 kimba: I always vote Tory myself, believe it or not!
61

Ananurhing,

23/05/2008 12:16:42
#64 Kimba

You can be certain that we are too. Eagerly! At last, some commonality with you.
Hands across the Cheviots sister!
62

Deekie fae Midstocket,

Aberdeen 23/05/2008 12:19:49

London Labour will not protect Scotland from another decade or more of Little Englander toryism, so we have only one option: vote SNP.
How about a General Election, Gordon?
Bring it on!
63

Ananurhing,

23/05/2008 12:31:44
#67 Meths

One of his old monikers was Auntie Fascist!
64

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 12:32:19
#68 Meths: unlike you to indulge in gratuitous abuse. Too much wine with your lunch, old pal?
65

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 12:32:59
#70 Ananurhing: et tu!
66

Calum Crubag,

23/05/2008 12:35:11
#6 - don't write off Brown. Well my bet is on John Major. Agree about Johnson though - he did have a real job.

Was amazing to hear Labour slagging the Tory's 'toffs'(they are disgusting, true) when the likes of Blair, Benn, Brown and Darling are hardly horny handed sons of toil.

Never mind, independence is coming for us, so the English can vote for whichever toff they want.
67

Ananurhing,

23/05/2008 12:38:28
#72 The Master

"Et tu" as in too much wine? Or as in Brute.
68

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 23/05/2008 12:40:58
What is amazing is that some 12,000 people in Crewe and Nantwich still vote Labour. Are they all mental? Just how bad a government - who lies, steals and cheats from the rest of us do you need before you wake up and "smell the coffee" and dump the lot?

The Tories had a few brown envelopes (isn't the bad colour always brown?!) stuffed with a little ten grand here or there for the odd “cash for questions bribe”. But Labour has the spectre of dodgy "loans" deals for millions of pounds for House of Lords honours and just about as much "snout-in-the-trough" corruption as one could ever imagine a politician could get away with. They are a travesty of everything we thought they represented and they must go NOW.
69

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 12:41:52
#74 As in "Brute". I imagine Meths sitting around in his Italian villa (or wherever he is!) with a few beers in the fridge, whereas I see you behind a desk in some soulless office.
70

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 12:46:00
#76 Meths: I have two words to say to you: “Arthur Donaldson”. The "no such thing as society" quote was garnered from words in a speech and so is not a direct quote (no time to google it just now: time for lunch). However, I would not disagree with the sentiments as much as some on the left of the SNP or Labour.
71

Ananurhing,

23/05/2008 12:46:42
#77 The Master

Meths in an Italian villa!

Me in an office!

Whatever you're a master of, it sure isn't clairvoyance!

72

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 12:52:55
#79: all right, maybe Spain's the country that Meths has made his home.
73

Ananurhing,

23/05/2008 12:57:09
#78

I can see where you've got your channels crossed.
Meths is in Spain.

I'm the one thats buying an old Italian farmhouse.
Interestingly enough, I can just about afford it from what I'm saving in business rates over the next 3 years!
74

kimba,

23/05/2008 13:09:05
69. You can vote snp 'til you're blue in the face,cameron will NEVER agree to scottish independence,but he has agreed to exclude all scottish,welsh,and NI mps from English affairs.
75

Mercian,

UK 23/05/2008 13:12:32
#6

"... here is also the suspicion that some voters don't like to see the Scottish mafia in charge - that they would prefer an English PM - someone who they can actually relate to."

Some parts of the media have tried to make Brown's Scottishness an issue, but in my view there is very little anti-Scottishness in England.

It's all about perception, these days, and people see Brown as an indecsive blunderer who has lost his grip on policy, the economy, and even his own party.

He bascially needs to change this image in the eyes of the public before he calls the next election...
76

Proximaking,

Dundee 23/05/2008 13:18:26
Well I think Gordon Brown will probably win the next election provided the world economy goes completely down the pan such that everyone with a mortgage is in negative equity. Tories don't "look after" people with negative equity and everyone knows that. Given such a crash Gordon may even be able to sort out the morass he has created in the public sector where they are massively overpaid and molly-coddled compared to the rest of us. So it is either complete financial collapse and a Labour win by default or business as usual and the Tories head for a win and Scotland heads for the door marked exit. Maggie got her "miracle" of the Falklands war and maybe Brown will not be aborted after all. If he is saved perhaps he should reflect that he has been given a right to be the "father of the nation" a right to know a father that he and his party took away from millions of the unborn children of the future this week so that feckless women could have their "rights" protected. Why does a child at 24 weeks have rights and a child at 12 or 15 or 19 weeks doesn't? Three months is a long time in politics but it is no time at all in your mother's womb. lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllll
77

Alberto.,

23/05/2008 13:18:31
Considering all the 'Listening' that GB says he is now doing - at last, and comparing it with his actions so far, it seems his 'hearing aid' as run out of battery life and he has not heard a thing being said - or, I imagine, being a politician 'Not really bovvered!'

By the way does the ever bubbly and pretty Hazel Blears ever stop talking once she gets going!! If she is ever caught with her mouth shut I am sure a Doctor will be called!

Cannot help thinking if this Governemnet had a great National dispute on Pay with, say, the Police (have they - really?) and the Fire Service, and someone was stood behinbd her with a blowtorch, setting her backside on fire, and she was in excruciating pain, her best offer would be to say - as usual, we are in committee discussion about it! Such New Labour Confidence - but not very sensible!
78

Ananurhing,

23/05/2008 13:27:53
#84 Meths

Yeah I know. But it's about so much more than that, isn't it? Society, lifestyle, food, people.
Try telling some of our European neighbours there's no such thing as society.
79

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

23/05/2008 13:31:34
#85 He has no chance of doing that. I think that being PM has revealed what an extraordinarily lucky chancellor he was - things always seemed to go his way. What I think we have seen here is that when his Plan A becomes unstuck he does not have a Plan B to follow up with. Hence the bumbling from one disaster to the next.

He also has his own internal problems - unlike Blair, who only had what one could call the "usual suspects" opposing him, Brown has had the Blairite sharks circling him for months. Add to that list the many MPs in marginal constituencies and you have a large enough group to force a leadership election with the likes of Clarke, Byers or Milburn running as a stalking horse to fatally wound him. Those who think Brown is still safe also ignore the fact that there is a long list of MPs who one could not decribe as being Blairite or hard left who have their own personal grudges with Brown. Brown, unlike Blair, has made too many enemies within the Labour Party to survive.
80

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

23/05/2008 13:35:33
#13 That's the one - the way he breathes through his mouth all the time whn he is being interviewed.
81

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 13:37:27
#84 Meths: thanks for the quotation. I wouldn’t have thought Thazza’s sentiments are particularly controversial nowadays: Labour is only too keen to encourage private-public partnerships and the SNP has shifted its emphasis from helping the needy towards creating a “Celtic Lion” and cutting prescription charges and university tuition fees for all rather than means testing in order to target resources more effectively.
82

Stewart C.,

Stranraer 23/05/2008 14:02:28
I have just made the following points in my latest article on my website:

www.thelabourparty.org

(not a pro-Labour site!)

Most of the reports I have read in newspapers say that Labour's thrashing is down to voters' personal worsening economic conditions due to rising prices and the axing of the 10p tax rate.

I like to think that people are also greatly concerned about Labour's betrayal of the British people by refusing us a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and going ahead with giving away even more of our sovereignty.

I hope that these Cheshire voters also wanted an end to the surveillance state and interference from the 'authorities' in people's everyday lives; an end of the police and courts being too busy dealing with people who leave their bins open or drop a piece of sausage roll to bother with serious, proper crime; a proper solution to the problems caused to our way of life and pressures on our delicate services and infrastructure caused by mass immigration (even two-thirds of immigrants want it stopped, but the Government has its own agenda).

Generally, we must vote to end a Government that hates this country and our way of life and is selling us out to globalist, corporate interests time after time and make sure we replace it with something far, far better.

Personally, that is so much more important than how much money I have in my pocket.

On the run up to the election, David Cameron walked around Crewe, jacket off, hand resting comfortably on voters' shoulders and sounding like Tony Blair in his prime.

Be afraid!

While it is great to see the traitors in the red corner humiliated in recent elections, let us escape the left-right paradigm and vote for candidates who are in the race because they love their country, love their families and have the wisdom and goodness to put people before party politics and their own glory and thus do not have a massive ego that needs massaging by gaining a position of power.

Any candidate wort
83

Stewart C.,

Stranraer 23/05/2008 14:03:05
cont...

Any candidate worth voting for should understand that if elected they will be servants and not celebrities or 'authorities.'
84

Bigwull,

edinburgh 23/05/2008 14:25:47
new labour-tories = same thing, nothing much will change except the death of the NHS, the Tories have always hated this, and a self engineered 3 million plus on the dole, mainly outwith the "home counties" as per normal tory policy and obviously with 3 million on the dole an erosion of the minimum wage, also hated by the tories. A change of government would be nice but not with a massive majority please. Thats not healthy at all
85

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 23/05/2008 14:36:29
Is a Conservative/SNP coalition government in Westminster a distinct possibility??
Now that would be an interesting scenario.
Holding the balance of power to break up the flawed and redundant union would be sweet music indeed.
86

Green booger,

23/05/2008 14:51:34
UKIP did well.

Let's hope they wipe the floor with the main parties during the European Elections. We need to have more UKIP MEPs exposing the waste, corruption and lies in the EU/EC.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2699800300274168460&q=european+union&ei=jcw2SNL6KpD-iQKH94j2Aw
87

Deleted Moniker 3,

23/05/2008 15:02:37
#99 Spook: the moniker that was deleted was a “hard space” version; the original Master moniker remains intact, so he may well be able to ditch the “2” after a suitable interval. Regenerating is what Timelords do, you know!
88

Mike555,

23/05/2008 15:03:54
It's no surprise that Labour were slaughtered in this by election as the woman standing for labour was a very, very poor candidate whose only claim to fame was her Mother.

Of course anybody standing against Labour at the moment would win thanks to GB's incompetence.
89

Deleted Moniker 3,

23/05/2008 15:07:54
#103 Spook: thought you’d deregistered yourself: how did you get your moniker back? I can’t see a hard space on it. I only ask because I also deregistered the Dark Side after the problems experienced by AM2 (which we won’t mention here, as the thread was closed last night when he came on to talk aobut them). I do have a “hard space” dark side”, but I’d like to get back the original as a backup.
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Deleted Moniker 3,

23/05/2008 15:21:00
#108: you could join the Dark Side, but the trouble between you and kimba would make the fight between Brown and Blair look like a Sunday school picnic!
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kimba,

23/05/2008 15:23:17
108. Spooky and I get on well,when he talks sense!
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kimba,

23/05/2008 15:30:58
spooky. Labour won't be in power that long,and cameron is a staunch supporter of the union. Have a nice day!
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kimba,

23/05/2008 15:40:00
spooky. LOL, Hope the GERS win tomorrow,but you probably don't.
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23/05/2008 15:40:17
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

23/05/2008 15:40:56
#97 "A change of government would be nice but not with a massive majority please."

I'd prefer a hung parliament - I don't trust any of the buggers right now. It might focus all of their minds. It might also make it more likely for PR to be introduced, or at least the first steps to introduce it, as the price of getting a coalition.
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kimba,

23/05/2008 15:43:44
118. If the tories won with the same majority that won crew & nantwich,they would have a 300 seat majority.
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Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 23/05/2008 15:49:15
#117

Power is an extremely potent intoxicant. Cameron - if the situation arises - will be sorely tempted to drink Salmond's Kool-aide if it means he gets to pick up his mail at #10.
You heard it here first.
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23/05/2008 15:50:46
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23/05/2008 15:53:03
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kimba,

23/05/2008 15:56:25
120. Cameron would,nt drink salmonds "kool-aide" if it were the "elixer" of life!
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Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 23/05/2008 15:56:46
#122

My point exactly. Although I was thinking more literally when you got to the part about the 12 bore.
102

Redfive,

23/05/2008 15:59:58
In case you are confused Gordon why you lost so handsomely read the following:

NHS monetary waste and declining standards of hygiene despite extra untold billions spent on hospitals in the last 10 years and despite huge population growth due to uncontrolled immigration hospitals have HALF as many beds as they had in 1997.

Over priced foreign owned utility companies ripping off the UK consumers with total impunity - toothless energy watchdog is a total waste of money.

Useless Politically correct police force that does not want to police anything outside of thier cars or desks.

Unacceptably high taxes as every turn. We cannot absorb any more tax increases in any form especially fuel and car tax.

Draconian bin rules from overbearing local council Gestapo types who have forgotten we pay their wages and they are here to serve us and enrich our lives NOT seek as out as a cash cow and dream up an ever increasing way of fining us for trivial things that should not even be allowed.

Political Correctness must be outlawed and anyone attempting to justify a policy on PC grounds must be sacked immediately with no pension.

End the multicultural experiment we never asked for it voted for or wanted it and it very clearly does not work what so ever - unless you a a foreign born minority.

End all civil servant pensions and make them pay into private ones like the rest of us, currently the UK pension Debt for civil servants is over £800 billion and there is no money in the pot this 800 billion and rising exponentsuly every year is expected to come out of the tax we are paying.



103

The Master 2,

23/05/2008 16:20:09
#118 Federalist: PR nationally would shoot another of the so called Nationalist foxes: if the Tories were to receive a similar number of MPs at Westminster to Holyrood, the Nats argument that they have no representation to speak of would be greatly diluted.
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The Master 2,

23/05/2008 16:24:00
#122 Ciderman: it’s irrelevant whether the Nats have a majority of seats or not; the party is not a single issue pressure group, so it’ll be all too easy for the Tories to argue that they are gathering votes because of their profile in the SP and the popularity of their non separation policies.
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23/05/2008 16:36:31
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Calvinist,

23/05/2008 16:43:32
#121 spot on: I posted this earlier today:

You may well be right; it is very likely that the Westminster government will be a Tory one with a substantial majority. This is why I think that Salmond has made a tactical error in not holding a referendum ASAP. His presumption is that Scots will be alarmed at the election of a Tory government and will vote in droves for independence. This may or may not be the case. It is very likely that there will be a revival in the fortunes of the conservative party in Scotland at the next election. After all what alternative is there for former Labour supporters who do not back separatism? This will muddy the waters even further and may even result in a reduction of support for the SNP. It is also most unlikely that the 20 or so predicted SNP Westminster MPs would hold the balance of power at Westminster if the events of last night were repeated throughout the UK. Even if the 2010 (or whenever) referendum produces a yes vote, he will be in the position of having to negotiate with a strong Tory government rather than a weak Labour one. Cameron will effectively have the upper hand in such negotiations and is likely to string him along until, say the oil revenues run out. Better to go for a referendum now- this would put pressure on the existing Labour government and on the incoming Tory one as it will be an ‘issue’ at the general election.
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morris,

edinburgh 23/05/2008 17:11:07
131

The choices open to former Labour voters (who will not back independence) are more than the Conservative Party!The Liberal Dems would surely pick up some of those votes for a start.
The majority however will of course go to the SNP if they have any brains at all, and in any case which Unionist party you vote for is irrelevant since you will get a Conservative government with all three .

Labour cannot win.You have to be amoron to not realise that.
Liberal Democrat could at best catch Labour and maybe just maybe sneak second place in England.

You have a choice in Scotland

Conservative or SNP .Its as simple as that.

Vote Conservative if you want a Conservative government.
Vote SNP if you do not.
Vote Labour or Liberal Democrat if you have a screw loose because it is just plain futile, but the choice does exist, even if it is Hobsons.
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Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 23/05/2008 17:15:17
Liebour & the unionist numptyism has reached a new nadir.
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kimba,

23/05/2008 17:31:51
133. Conservative or snp,the sensible will vote conservative, the cabbages will vote snp,it's as simple as that.
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23/05/2008 17:34:14
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kimba,

23/05/2008 17:39:14
132. And lower taxes, yobs off the streets,our armed forces given the proper equipment,oh and our national debt cut by half,not to mention the abolition of the ridiculous "new deal"!
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23/05/2008 17:41:02
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kimba,

23/05/2008 17:41:03
138. Running scared are we!
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23/05/2008 17:41:39
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23/05/2008 17:47:33
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morris,

edinburgh 23/05/2008 17:50:09
75 Mikko
Its not just Crewe and Nantwich.
Look at Strathclyde !Not only could a monkey wearing a red rosette be elected there,apprently according to Spooks calculation 21 seats in Scotland would remain Labour when they cannot possibly win.NOW IF THAT IS NOT THE HALLMARK OF A TOTAL MORON I DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

They would never back a horse whith three legs so why back a lame duck Prime Minister.

Broon will be lucky to keep his seat which must be seriously under threat from the SNP now. The Fifers are fiercly proud of being different ,and Broon is about to find out just how proud they are!
Broon dare not call an election now! His party would be wiped out!
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23/05/2008 17:51:00
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23/05/2008 18:00:08
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23/05/2008 18:07:00
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23/05/2008 18:20:14
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23/05/2008 18:24:28
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morris,

edinburgh 23/05/2008 18:26:46
140 If Scotland declares a majority in favour of independence I doubt if London can legally stop it,and I doubt she would even try! United Nations have clear rules and requirements governing any such claims and a former nation is recognised automatically.What London says matters not a jot when the wishes of Scotland's people are declared in a referendum and must then be internationally recognised .The right to self determination cannot be refused by London even if she is arrogant enough to think she can.The international community would have to overrule Westminster when a democratic result as unambiguous as a referendum exists.What you are saying is that you could impose your minority wishes upon me but I could not impose my majority wishes upon you! Anybody who thinks that is in for a rude awakening!

Whilst I am not involved in Constitutional law,I know the SNP has some very learned Proffessors on board and they have not been SNP supporters for forty years or so when there is a flaw in the SNP thinking!

Even if Westminster proved daft enough to try it, she would never get away with it!You seem to think London has powers over international rulings .Thank God you are not in government!Even Londons politicians have acknowledged that they could do sod all about it. I doubt that they would be stupid enough to even try.Besides the people in England would insist we are kicked out or allowed to leave depending upon how educuated and democratic they are. It just wont happen.
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23/05/2008 18:26:48
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 18:27:08
147. Ciderman

you raise a good point. I hope none of our new Labour top-flight donors like Mittal, the Hindujas, Ecclestone & Mosely, Abrahams and that Jersey chap desert us.
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23/05/2008 18:32:04
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23/05/2008 18:41:29
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 18:46:28
154. Ciderman, very well said.

The whole Blair writing a letter of endorsement to a foreign government for Mr Mittal's British steel company, after his £1 million donation and Mr Mittal not even having a British steel company, was blown out of all proportion.

Similarly, Cabinet ministers resigning because the Hindujas' passport applications were expedited just after they gave £1 million to new Labour was also blown out of all proportion.

The Ecclestone/ F1 cigarrette advertising ban exemption, just after he gave £1 million to new Labour was just a alot of puff.

And as for Mr Abrahams and Mr Greens illegal donations, pure fluff.

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brownlie,

23/05/2008 18:50:31
154 Ciderman

Don't you think us unionists have enough problems of our own without worrying about the Nats' funding?
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WL,

livingston 23/05/2008 18:55:26
It is Mr Timpson and NOT Mr Cameron who won the Crewe & Nantwich by-election. Anyway, that has nothing to do with Scotland.
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23/05/2008 18:58:54
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23/05/2008 19:00:30
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morris,

edinburgh 23/05/2008 19:03:14
153

The SNP could not possibly have held a referendum before they were in power,They are not entitled to make many decisions even now, as they are only a minority government and need backing from other parties so how could they possibly have done so in opposition? Labour however are too scared to let the SNP government fall because they would get humped and they know it.Labours MSPs couldnt care less about Scotland ,they have mortgages to pay with their MSPs salaries and an election means goodbye house!Thats why the SNP will remain in power.The rest cannot afford any more losses to them and thats definitely what will happen.When Cameron is installed in no 10 Scotland will realise its well past time.
The result of a referendum is binding,(either way) and the rules are already written. International law has got nothing to do with Westminster.We dont even employ the same legal system as the rest of the UK so neither has Scots Law. The matter would be subject to international procedures and intervention and the rules already exist, (although I confess to knowing very little of what they actually say word for word).

I may be an optimist but many of my freinds are qualified in constitutional legal matters and have assured me Scotlands claim to nationhood and the oil is sound and has been verified in advance by many political and legal boffins both in the EU and the UN. Oh yes I am optimistic,Im also basing my opinions on people who know they are correct.Even if Westminsters view were allowed to prevail you would surely recognise that it could not last. Something would have to snap.
Scotland is leaving sooner or later.
Get used to the idea.
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psycho,

edinbro 23/05/2008 19:04:35
The Labour Party is Anti Life -supports the destruction of children in the womb and it is is not fit to govern in its display of disregard for the equal opportunities which should be enjoyed by right by these children.They are finished -they have no credibility on this basis
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23/05/2008 19:05:05
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23/05/2008 19:08:42
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brownlie,

23/05/2008 19:12:09
162 Ciderman

If Scotland is such a drain on our unionists resources as you constantly claim it is difficult to understand why a highly educated man - he did go to Eton after all - would want to be "absolutely committed to the the Union"?

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23/05/2008 19:23:32
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brownlie,

23/05/2008 19:31:56
165 Ciderman

Okay, then, what do you tell your friends, sorry, acquaintances when they ask you why you wish to hang on to a union with the Scots who you denigrate at every opportunity on these threads?

I know what my answer is and I wonder if it coincides with yours?
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lulach mac gille coemgain,

23/05/2008 19:35:18
Crewe and Nano irrelevent politics for a soon to be different country
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23/05/2008 19:40:56
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morris,

edinburgh 23/05/2008 19:52:58
There have been many over the years both as signed members and supporters,and my own branch boasts a former member of the European Parliament, a Professorship in Law at Edinburgh since 1967,an education which includes
Glasgow, Balliol College, Oxford, and Edinburgh universities,plus has honorary doctorates from universities in Canada, Germany, Italy, Sweden, and Scotland and is a regular TV and radio broadcaster.
He is an acknowledged legal expert on the European Union with many published works and has a working knowledge of several European languages.
I refer to Proffessor Sir Neil MacCormick.Im not going to drag myself looking to see how many there are currently.I have personally met or heard of many professors who are in political economic and law or related disciplines over the years and support independence.Wendy's own husband said he perferred independence in an Edinburgh lecture and it was captured on video.
I have known Professor McCormick to say hello to almost since he joined in 1967,and if there is a more qualified person than him then he will have to go some.
Are you RAF personnel from South of the border by any chance? You have some strange views for a Forres man!
I dont need to prove anything and I care even less if you doubt anything! The electorate are what matter and they will be heard where it counts.
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Pilrig.,

Livingston 23/05/2008 19:57:12
46 - "We all know who gave us 17 years to tory mis-rule"

Yep, the Labour Vote No crew: Tam Dalyell, Brian Wilson, Archie Birt, and, last but not least, the Tories' secret weapon - Neil Kinnock !
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Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 20:06:46
168
Ciderman, a very alliterate post, pity it's positively p!sh.
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morris,

edinburgh 23/05/2008 20:10:45
167
Whilst I recognise what you say,it does reinforce what many have been forecasting for two years now.Labour are going to get the biggest hiding in UK history. Every week sees them slip further behind and we even have one opinion poll which suggested the Tories would beat them in Scotland and the Tories would themselves have been extinct had it not been for the PR system and the Lib DEma could overtake them in England .The Liberals in Scotland could however all but disappear. If I were a Unionist I would defect whilst I still could.They have lost the UK and theres no going back now.
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23/05/2008 20:13:43
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23/05/2008 20:16:35
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Dekester,

23/05/2008 20:22:33
#63. Great post. #160 Right on, and thank you.

Labour really are doomed. A free Scotland, and a Tory Government in London in the not too distant future

Great news for the people.
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Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 20:25:27
173
Ciderman; cease your claptrap consonance.
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23/05/2008 20:27:34
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23/05/2008 20:28:51
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Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 20:35:06
178
Derivitive, dribbling, drivel, doesn't do.
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23/05/2008 20:42:04
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Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 20:50:48
180
Desist, don't denigrate Denzil Batchelor.
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23/05/2008 21:27:19
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23/05/2008 21:37:40
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23/05/2008 21:38:05
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 21:40:36
186. I got 14/16
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23/05/2008 21:41:20
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Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 23/05/2008 21:42:13
Ciderman

Your point about Salmond is mere unsubstantiated heresay...

"Salmond is not a freedom fighter, he is a cynical politician serving his needs, not yours, or, ours".

On the contrary, all the evidence suggests that he is FOR Scotland, FOR the people of Scotland, and is fighting Scotland's case. Unlike the Labour Party, there is no hidden agenda. He is for Scottish Independence from the UK. And that is clearly the perception out on Scotland's streets based on all poll ratings. Do you have some insider knowledge we don't know about?

And another thing. Cameron (Blair) will say things now that will change in the future. He will try to weave his magic unionist spin on the Scottish people and it will backfire. If you think Brown (who's Scottish) comes across as being out of touch with Scotland, wait until Cameron gets elected. He will create greater support for independence, and it will eventually be out of his hands.

Under his rule, the Barnett formula will go. This will definitely mean a lower % settlement for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. That will cause a backlash.

English MPs (quite rightly) will vote on English-only matters. After the Calman Commission proposes more powers for Scotland, this will mean that Scottish Westminster MPs will be part-time. This will cause a backlash.

The Tories will most likely be in power for 10 years. Whether the SNP or Labour are the majority party in Holyrood, the two Governments will never agree. That will be a constant source of annoyance to the people of Scotland.
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23/05/2008 21:43:35
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23/05/2008 21:44:50
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162

Union is Best,

23/05/2008 21:47:16
190

I did 32 seconds
163

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23/05/2008 21:50:53
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23/05/2008 21:53:57
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23/05/2008 21:54:04
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Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 23/05/2008 21:54:25
190

11.672 seconds
167

Union is Best,

23/05/2008 21:55:42
195. 32 still my best, just did 29.3

All numbers are close to Cider pete's IQ. This is no coincidence
168

,

23/05/2008 21:57:20
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 21:58:37
194. 34 secs. This is more fun than talking to Cider
170

,

23/05/2008 22:00:21
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:00:21
198. No doubt you have Cider, but I was referring to the wee computer block game
172

Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:01:30
200. Cider, you are sitting at the next desk up, beside Brownlie and the poster formerly known as AM2. Why don't you just get up and bring it here?
173

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23/05/2008 22:02:18
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Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 23/05/2008 22:02:20
Ciderman

Great link by the way. The whole family's playing it now..

I totally disagree about Salmond. I understand what you say about political manouevering, but that was done in the interests of furthering Independence, not Salmond's career.

Your point about Cameron is well made. He will not want to be the one who resides over a Union break-up. My point is that it will be out of his hands if he pursues the policies I mentioned above.

By the way, MacDonald sounds very Scottish.
175

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23/05/2008 22:04:31
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CRAGman,

23/05/2008 22:04:50
Good old first past the post - you can always change your MP or government under FPTP.
177

Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:05:05
203. I had hoped holding your breath, but your latest dull missive has dashed that line of optimistic pondering. I must go back to my first assumption.
178

Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:05:51
205. Am up to 38 seconds. That is longer than our last new Labour position on a referendum lasted.
179

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23/05/2008 22:06:57
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23/05/2008 22:08:10
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:08:52
209. 3 people who disagree with your latest odd ball assertion are me, Brownlie and the Spook in Leith. WHat do you mean by "you lot" - I am with you, except for your claimed indifference to the Union and your sweaty sessions with the Mad Dog.
182

Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 22:09:11
208
Woohoo. A pissed 23 secs.
183

Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:09:46
212. Prostate problems or chronic dehydration?
184

Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 22:12:15
213
Dehydration? Does beer count?
185

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23/05/2008 22:14:55
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23/05/2008 22:19:46
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23/05/2008 22:30:07
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23/05/2008 22:32:01
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:33:03
215,216,217 - 3 post mentalism - do sssshhh now and calm down, I am watching something more interesting than your dribble on TV.
190

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23/05/2008 22:36:06
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Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 22:36:22
217
So you went to GU as well?
Is there anyone here who went to a prop-an East coast Uni?
192

Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 22:40:16
220
13/16.Its all in the gritted teeth.
193

Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:43:07
222 - http://www.imdb.com/video/trailer/vi3870359833/
194

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23/05/2008 22:47:55
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:50:07
224. LOL

Prescott said in his book he got one for Blair, and Blair loved it
196

Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 22:50:32
223
LOL She obviously needs a good dentist.
197

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23/05/2008 22:54:16
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Union is Best,

23/05/2008 22:54:46
227. I only read it for diet tips.
199

Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 23:02:13
228
The Empire biscuit diet?
200

Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 23:24:17
230
Why do you ask?
Do you want to buy a Volkswagen?
201

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 23/05/2008 23:35:59
The Tory Party- the Beeching cuts, the destruction of manufacturing industry, the closure of the mines and destruction of communities, the Poll tax, high inflation etc etc.

The numpties who vote for this lot need their heads looking at.

The Tory party is a nasty creed that seeks power via peoples greed. A plague on ther house for life, for ever!
202

Conan the Librarian™,

23/05/2008 23:43:03
232
Ciderman is a banker?Should have guessed.
233
Agreed.So why do waste your life voting Liberal?
203

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 23/05/2008 23:47:48
234 - the Liberal party has a genuine record of progressive reforms both in office and from the opposiiton benches that this country has and continues to benefit from. I won't bore you with the detail at this time of night so please don't bore me with your patronising comment.
204

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 23/05/2008 23:56:21
Please please oh please, let Gordon stay on just a little bit longer, like untill 2010. He's doing such a great job for us up here in SCOTLAND. INDEPENDENCE HERE WE COME!!!!
205

Conan the Librarian™,

24/05/2008 00:03:38
235
Sorry if I upset you with my patronising comment.
I have voted Liberal (tactically) in the past.
But you have to agree, the party which will change things for Scotland isn't yours.Is it?

 

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