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Controversy over Caltongate sparks United Nations probe

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Published Date: 07 July 2008
UNESCO has launched an investigation into Edinburgh's World Heritage Status after concerns were raised over the handling of the controversial Caltongate development.
The UN heritage watchdog's inspectors will visit the Capital later this year to assess conservation levels in the city, while the Scottish Government has been asked to submit a report defending Edinburgh's status by February next year.

Delegates a
t the 2009 Unesco summit in Seville will then decide if Edinburgh needs to be put on the "at risk" register" for not sticking to the heritage group's strict rules.

The Scottish Government's approval for the £300 million Caltongate scheme last month – which ended opponents' hopes for a public enquiry – has sparked the Unesco investigation.

Officials from the organisation today said they were "deeply concerned" that the Government had ignored rules that state the watchdog must be consulted on any major development in a heritage site before approval is granted.

It is understood the investigation will also take in the planned massive redevelopment of the St James Centre, as well as Forth Ports' plans to transform the face of Leith Docks over the next 20 years.

London and Liverpool are already under investigation by Unesco after similar concerns were raised about new developments there.

Government and council chiefs today said they were confident that the Unesco inspections will be a success.

A spokesman for Unesco's world heritage committee said: "The committee voiced concern at the potential impact of the Caltongate development and were also deeply concerned that it was approved by the state government in June without complying with the operational guidelines for world heritage sites."

The Caltongate plans, which include a five-star hotel, conference centre, and scores of shops, offices and homes, won local politicians' backing in February.

Despite nearly 2000 objections, the scheme received the final go-ahead last month after Scottish Ministers ruled out a public inquiry.

The project involves the demolition of two C-listed buildings – the Sailors' Ark and the former Canongate Venture school – and the first phase of works expected to be completed by 2012.

Steve Cardownie, Edinburgh's deputy council leader, said: "I don't think we'd be too perturbed over this.

"It's fairly commonplace for Unesco to re-evaluate World Heritage Sites and that kind of scrutiny goes along with the title. I don't think Edinburgh has done anything to devalue its status."

Edinburgh was awarded world heritage status for its Old and New Towns in 1995.

Campaigners from the Save Our Old Town campaign wrote to Unesco earlier this year to highlight their concern that there had been "no adequate justification" for the demolition of two listed buildings as part of the Caltongate proposals.

Scottish culture minister Linda Fabiani, said: "I'm confident that when the Unesco mission visits our capital, it will see a vibrant, growing city which embraces its cultural and architectural heritage as well as managing an improvement in development that benefits Edinburgh as a whole."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 July 2008 11:03 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Caltongate development
 
1

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:14:11
Can't say they weren't warned


www.eh8.org.uk
2

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:14:55
Oh, here we go...
3

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:17:02
And no - it's isn't a watchdog.
4

Louis Catorze,

07/07/2008 12:17:47
I hope the status is revoked. Maybe a wakeup call for the local cooncillors.

Although I doubt it...
5

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:17:56
We have been 'going' on the Scotsman site all morning. Do keep up. That's if you have anything useful to say, but that's possibly doubtful.
6

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:19:14
Also - Cardownie - that's one of the most stupid and ill-informed comments you've ever made.
7

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:20:08
Something you know all about.
8

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:23:19
I'm confident that when the Unesco mission visits our capital, it will see a vibrant, growing city which embraces its cultural and architectural heritage as well as managing an improvement in development that benefits Edinburgh as a whole.
9

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:24:05
Are you? Dream on.
10

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:26:43
This is reality darling. Welcome to it.
11

I love to eat Sellotape,

07/07/2008 12:30:28
No, THIS is not reality.

THAT, over there ... that's reality.
12

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:32:33
Ok, that's true.

Can I get away with saying this reflects reality?
13

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:36:04
The reality is, that UNESCO is going to visit as it feels those who should have referred developments to UNESCO have failed to do so, (legally binding charters etc) and it did warn the city in the past that there is too much inappropriate development being carried out.

It's all panning out as predicted.
14

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:36:55
Latest:

http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/2008/07/edinburgh-under-investigation.html

15

Bob 2,

07/07/2008 12:41:19
as No1 states,

everyone commented on the World Heritage status,

but Edinburgh "Carried on Regardless" ...opportunity for a New Carry On film there.....I'll let you work out the cast and characters.

Ps dont mention Haymarket Heights.
16

Bob 2,

07/07/2008 12:42:44
or the electric Cables drilled into the sides of buildings for the Trams.
17

Bob 2,

07/07/2008 12:42:45
or the electric Cables drilled into the sides of buildings for the Trams.
18

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:42:54
"Carry on Improving Our city"?
19

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:49:06
Carry on stuffing envelopes?

The trams drilling is a disgrace, I agree.
20

Freddie,

Old Town 07/07/2008 12:52:40
As an Old Town Trot. I am extremely unhappy that no one is paying any attention to the justified demands of fighting the bourgouse capitalist running dogs that are turning our once glorious run down regional village into a clone town world capital(ist).

I thought the Nats might welcome the opportunity to bash labour a lot over this. but they seem to be too interested into turning scotland into some type of tiger econoomy oh well.....

All hail the Canaongate workers republic. Aye richt!

21

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:54:05
"UNESCO has launched an investigation into Edinburgh's World Heritage Status"

We should all be shaking in our shoes (and I don't think).

Like their parent organisation (the vacillating UN) we should ignore them.
22

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:55:03
Why is it a disgrace? Surely it's better than erecting poles all the way along the route.
23

Some guy,

07/07/2008 12:55:47
So let me get this right. Edinburgh is losing its heritage status for building on:
A hole in the ground resulting from a fire.
A grey concrete block that is universally hated.
A run down docks area that is hardly used as much as it used to be.
Anyone else think its madness? Just goes to show how stupid conservation rules are. What's the point in conserving run down disliked areas, universally hated buildings or areas that just arent used any more?
24

Buttress,

07/07/2008 12:58:59
Just goes to show how stupid sone af the most recent commentators on this site are.
25

Buttress,

07/07/2008 13:02:31
Man and and woman from UNESCO - they pay visit to see for themselves. Not good that visit is happening. Brown envelopes will not prevent it. May have caused it (allegedly...)
26

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:02:56
#24 = crazy man who wants to live in a museum. Take no notice of him.
27

Buttress,

07/07/2008 13:06:46
27 - crazy man who knows nothing about modern conservation. Take no notice. Soon be thirty anyhow.
28

Freddie,

07/07/2008 13:09:25
#25 Love it....

.....oops, i schadenfrueded.
29

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:09:54
#22 20 Somnething.

The problem facing many householders along the route is the response of lenders (mortgages) and insurers if the power cables are physically attached to the side of someone's house.

As far as I can make out, TIE et al are not being very forthcoming as to whether or not they will meet householders costs if for example an insurer wants to increase premiums on affected properties, but there could also be problems which can affect mortgages.

Personally I hope to see the tram scheme go down the tubes.
30

NYC Hibee,

edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:13:09
Does it really matter what Unesco think. What benefit do we get from being a World Heritage Site anyway? Just a bunch of parasites trying to justify their existence I'd say.
31

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:17:26
#30, that is an understandable concern but I believe that the homeowners can refuse to have the cables attached so it's not the end of the world.

These concerns are for the people of Edinburgh though, which is great! However, I feel that more people here are concerned about heritage and lists than they are about the people of Edinburgh.
32

Buttress,

07/07/2008 13:17:42
32 Well you personally maybe get no benefit, as possibly Philistinism is alive and well and living in your hoose.

33

,

07/07/2008 13:23:40
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34

Tomsk,

07/07/2008 13:23:58
34 Okay, that's one benefit -- I think.

Tell us some more.

35

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:28:29
#34. Pot..... kettle..... black
36

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:32:40
Theres more questions raised by Crawltongate -
http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/2008/02/questions-that-demand-answers.html

and surely you should be having a Bath 20something?
37

My opinions count for more than yours,

because I'm special 07/07/2008 13:33:01
NYC Hibee, instead of calling people "buttface" why not explain what benefits we get from your insipid drooling? Or are you too busy stroking yourself?
38

Philistine,

07/07/2008 13:34:54
Just because us philistines don't like arty farty bohemian life styles, its not necessary to get all nasty.
39

20something,

Edinburgh (New flat in the Old Town :o)) 07/07/2008 13:35:30
#38 Thank you for your constructive, relative comment about me having a bath.

Shouldn't you have an education?
40

jboy,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:38:54
Someone once told me that the New Town is older than the Old Town - does anyone know how many buildings on the Royal Mile are more than 100 years old? I suspect it's probably something like 25%. The rest of it was "conserved" or demolished in the 20s and 30s by the clearance of slums and there's an awful lot of 50s and 60s housing.

Also, Leith Docks aren't part of the WHS so why are UNESCO interested?
41

Buttress,

07/07/2008 13:42:24
It's not about age reall, it's about the contast.

Why - it's because of the 'buffer' effect, landscape setting etc. I think the Haymarket won't go down well either, but that was only passed last week. It's not in the WHS, but it is in the 'buffer' zone and will, against city policy, block views and add, and not beautifully, to the skyline.

42

Some guy,

07/07/2008 13:52:35
OK buttress. So what your saying is leave all of the older, in need of regeneration areas of edinburgh as they are so as not to spoil the skyline? So what happens when we get a few more buildings and areas that fall into disrepair or stop getting used and so get abandoned? Do we just leave all of the area round about the castle and royal mile empty, disused and rundown so as not to spoil a view?
43

Buttress,

07/07/2008 13:53:48
Dresden is under very real threat of removal next yaer - it's only becaue of a legal challenge that it remains this year, albeit on the In Danger list. Unless the bridge iis stopped, it's no longer going to be a WHS.
44

Buttress,

07/07/2008 13:56:31
46 - sigh. No, we conserve the historic stuff and the interesting stuff, and in places like Caltongate we beuid new and high quality and not something which could be built anyhwere, but something far, far better.

OK?


47 Yes I apprecate the stuff about age etc, but it's about planning too - the contrast between the 'organic' old town and the planned new.

45

,

07/07/2008 13:58:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

Buttress,

07/07/2008 14:01:04
Dresden:

'The World Heritage Committee has decided to retain Dresden Elbe Valley on UNESCO World Heritage List in the hope that the building of a four-lane bridge across the valley will be stopped and work undertaken to reverse damage caused to the integrity of the landscape of the German site.
The Committee said it regretted the construction of the bridge underway and urged the authorities to opt for the digging of a tunnel in its stead. It said that in the event that the construction of the bridge was not stopped and damage reversed, the property would be deleted from the World Heritage List in 2009. Meanwhile the property remains on the Danger List.

Although the Committee decided last year that it would remove the property from the World Heritage List if a bridge were built, it decided to give Dresden more time in view of legal proceedings underway in Germany. The Committee felt that the opposition to the construction of the bridge must be given a chance to succeed and that retaining the property on the list would help that fight.

The 18th- and 19th-century cultural landscape of Dresden Elbe Valley stretches some 18 km along the river from Übigau Palace and Ostragehege fields in the north-west to the Pillnitz Palace and the Elbe River Island in the south-east. It was inscribed on the World Heritage List in 2004.

The property, which features low meadows, and is crowned by the Pillnitz Palace and the centre of Dresden with its numerous monuments and parks from the 16th to 20th centuries, was inscribed on the List of World Heritage in Danger in 2006 because of the plan to build a bridge, which has since been started.'

Time the council got a slap on the wrist. But this could be so much more. UNESCO has complained in the past, no notice taken... I look forward to the government's defence of the possible illegalities.


I note the silence from the Chamber of Commerce et al.

47

Some guy,

07/07/2008 14:04:47
49 i agree that the new stuff close to the centre should attempt to merge in with the surroundings a bit (I dont like the Hotel plan for Haymarket or the old RIE site) but from what ive seen of the artists impressions of the Caltongate it looks different from all the new flats and stuff being built and takes the older style and adds a modern twist to it. Unless you have some huge archive of pictures that show it sticking out like a sore thumb?
48

Buttress,

07/07/2008 14:10:53
www.eh8.org.uk
49

My opinions count for more than yours,

because I'm special 07/07/2008 14:18:14
50.

You didn't "merely" ask a question. You called someone "buttface".

I, in turn, would like to know what "benefits" we get from listening to human pustules like you. And I'm still waiting for an answer.
50

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 14:23:20
Some of the most interesting places in the world have been removed from this list. I say we follow the trend.
51

Some guy,

07/07/2008 14:27:10
had a look. out of the whole developement only this one: http://www.eh8.org.uk/like_the_view really stands out as ruining things a bit.
For the tenements photo the old facade on the main street is preserved the new building are further back in away from the view.
For the Common Good photo its an old facory thats being replaced with a building in the same style as one already across the road from it.
For the Old Town Clone Town again it looks like older factory, garage type buildings being replaced with buildings in the same style as those just accross the road from it.
It looks like apart from that first photo it fits in to the surrounding area fine.
I think we'll just have to agree that conservation should fit into the surrounding area but disagree over what actually fits in.
52

Buttress,

07/07/2008 14:27:33
One interesting place.

One. So far.


53

Buttress,

07/07/2008 14:29:46
No, it's bad, There will be Listed Canongate School demolished, and a facade scheme for the Sailor;s Ark and the tenements. That's very bad conservation - but typical of Scotland, which is, under Historic Scotland, about twenty year's' behind the times.

This could have all been so much better, and have something for local people too. More than just a Tesco Extra.
54

Buttress,

07/07/2008 14:32:05
Also - read the objections - from people like Neil Simpson, Edinburgh World Heritage. Links should be on the www.eh8.org.uk site.
55

,

07/07/2008 14:36:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
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56

Some guy,

07/07/2008 14:39:38
Cheers Buttress. Im out for the moment but think i'l give it all a read tonight. Not sure it'll change my mind but will still make for an interesting view. It's been good to have this whole debate with someone without it turning into a slanging match for a change. Also despite me not agreeing its still good to see people sticking up for what they believe in.
57

Buttress,

07/07/2008 14:44:23
There's allegedly a whiff of sleaze about it all, too.


http://www.eh8.org.uk/mountgrange_move_in
58

Tomsk,

07/07/2008 14:50:46
50 Wow! You are very angry! I suppose that must mean you're right.

Em, doesn't it?
59

Buttress,

07/07/2008 14:54:12
http://ascandalandadisgrace.blogspot.com/2008/07/embra-up-sh*t-creek.html
60

Pandi,

Dresden at heart. 07/07/2008 14:58:10
@ Buttress: Thanks for bringing up Dresden.

Building the bridge there is 100% the right thing to do. It is miles outside town and does not impact on the historic city centre panorama along the south banks of the river.

The river down to Pillnitz is nice, granted, but having one bridge across it at some point along a 18 mile stretch will also not wreck the place.

UNESCO says: Build a tunnel! I ask, who'll pay for it? In case you're not aware, some areas of former east germany are not awash with money, so, once again, one has to make an informed, balanced decision. That's what happened. Democracy wins, UNESCO can go play with itself.

So UNESCO come to Edinburgh to form an on-site opinion. I see no reason for wet pants here. If UNESCO withdraws the heritage status, what EXACTLY does anyone think will happen? Do you think if Vennice lost it's status people would stop going there? UNESCO is, at it's core, a paper-pushing admin animal with close to zero power. And what legal obligation (charta's etc) are you talking about?! What EXACTLY are you referring to when you make your doomsday predicitons? Must we fear being sued? Are we talking embargoes or an invasion? I think not.

The worst thing that could possibly happen (and even this is so far out it's half-way between earth and Historic Scotland) is that UNESCO would withdraw the status and the UK would stop making contributory payments towards the UNESCO fund. 9/11 this ain't.

Before I go back to work I'm also sorry to have to inform Butress that no propperty developers are pushing the agenda in Dresden. As contractors would stand to make a much heftier sum on a tunnel project, it is the evil (majority of) inhabitants that simply don't want to spend an extra twenty to fifty million euro just so that some UNESCO desk-jockeys can sleep soundly.
61

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 14:59:01
#56 20something,

"I say we follow the trend."

I agree with you completely, it really looks as if UNESCO are just a bunch of paper tigers with absolutely no clout what-so-ever. Their worst 'punishment' would be to remove WHS status (no great loss in my view).

It also appears that only one site has lost its status, this surely indicates that they are reluctant to remove status anyway (probably don't want to kick themselves out of a job!!).

Conservation is fine for sites like 'The Valley of the Kings', Jerusalem, etc. but a town is a dymanic place where people live and work. We cannot wrap up every crumbling old building just because of its age.

The other 2 buildings which are to be demolished/altered are only 'C-listed' and therefore no great loss.

It should also be pointed out that not by any matter of means are all the residents in and around the Royal Mile opposed to the develpoment of CaltonGate, almost anything going in there would be better than the derelict buildings which have just been removed (I know. I live approx 200 yards from it).

Within 12 months of the new development being completed people will adjust to the changes and this little episode will be forgotten for the 'storm in a teacup' which it is.

62

Buttress,

07/07/2008 15:09:57
Dresden - should build a tunnel. Far, far better.
63

Buttress,

07/07/2008 15:12:50
Peter - who cares about your opinions, in reality? The Caltongate campaign seems to be doing OK without you.

Look forward to the government trying to defend the possible illegalities of its actions.
64

,

07/07/2008 15:16:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
65

Buttress,

07/07/2008 15:34:42
Well, here's 'Mad Moo' from over on the Scotsman site, who I am sure you must know, from the Caltongate campaign:


'The Canongate does need development but does not need more unnecessary demolitions, holiday flats and luxuary flats for second homes.

The local community have never said they wanted NO development what is needed is appropriate development. More affordable family homes to allow the community to survive and residential population to grow, facilities to support young people, opportunities for start up business and training. All these could be provided if only the planners and councillors (and Ministers in Govt)actually listened to the needs of the citizens or took on board the reasons for so many objections.
With the economic climate on a downturn now is the time to stop flogging off council assets to developers whose only interest is to secure a consent, smash the place up and p**s off leaving a big hole twice the size of the old bus depot site.

The Caltongate plans are not economically or environmentally sustainable.'

http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/2008/04/caltongate-calamity.html



66

The Judge,

07/07/2008 15:36:49
Scottish culture minister Linda Fabiani, said: "I'm confident that when the Unesco mission visits our capital, it will see a vibrant, growing city which embraces its cultural and architectural heritage as well as managing an improvement in development that benefits Edinburgh as a whole."

Do you think Linda has ever been in Edinburgh? My guess she sees the city from behind some blacked out windows. Linda sweetheart Edinburgh is a sh1thole, it has been that way for decades, it has never been, nor will it ever be a "vibrant" city. Once in a while get out of your chauffeur driven limo and have a look at the real city. And Steve "do you know who I am" Cardownie is talking garbage as usual.
67

,

07/07/2008 15:43:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
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68

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 07/07/2008 15:44:57
This storm in a teacup is infact a large can of worms, why should developers lead the way on city development? Why should one architect - Allan Murray be the chosen one for all of these developments?

And its hypocritical that we are told to reduce, reuse and recycle, yet they, the council and government the very ones telling us to do so, are knocking down sound buildings to be replaced by lumps of concrete, which the production of is responsible for 10% of the world`s carbon dioxide emmissions...its a joke and anyone who thinks Caltongate is the answer must have a vested interest or are blind to the facts.....
69

Buttress,

07/07/2008 15:49:03
75 - That's 20something then, time for that bath then bed maybe
70

Buttress,

07/07/2008 15:52:14
http://www.ewht.org.uk/World-Heritage-Day.aspx

'The leader of the City of Edinburgh Council Jenny Dawe said: “Edinburgh has a rich architectural heritage and is proud of its city centre UNESCO World Heritage Site status. We do not want to see that status compromised”.'

She's rather quiet today?



71

J-L,

07/07/2008 17:27:30
Unesco are worried we knocked down a big ugly bus depot. Lets get a grip.
72

Buttress,

07/07/2008 17:28:25
No. that's not the point at all. Get informed.
73

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 07/07/2008 17:37:52
Bluffers Guide to Caltongate see -
http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/2008/04/caltongate-calamity.html
74

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 18:05:10
76, Butress, care to join me?
75

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 18:07:25
This is a farce. I'm off to the pub. Anyone fancy a pint in the canons gait?
76

Buttress,

07/07/2008 19:25:33
TV tonight:

http://www.stv.tv/news/East_Central_Scotland/Council_claims_Edinburgh_Heritage_statu_080707185338250
77

Pilrig.,

Livingston 07/07/2008 23:50:17
66 aye the tourists will be flocking to Embra to admire Caltongate.
78

grantcat,

Old Town 07/07/2008 23:54:25
Golly gosh - there's more heat than light here. The Caltongate scheme is not about developing a brown field site, there was no fire, part of the site was created by the developers demolishing the bus depot and will demolish and take over a much bigger site too.

No one has said a development in the area is not needed or wanted. The issue has been the size of the development, demolishing good listed buildings and homes. Why does the site have to be so Allan Murray? I wouldn't mind but he is hardly an awesome architect in fact he would be lucky to have his building described as mediocre.

The site could have been developed sensitively and with the environment taken into consideration. There is no reason really to demolish the listed buildings except that Sofitel wanted a Royal Mile address.

If the council didn't want to be a World Heritage Site then why did it bother to put itself forward to be one? I think it does matter - if the attitude was this to all World Heritage sites then a lot of world heritage would be lost and once it's gone its gone forever.

Edinburgh's Old Town has always adapted to the new and has developed itself over the centuries. The old and the new has lived very comfortably together but Caltongate has ignored and negated this - not for the sake of outstanding architecture - the architecture is bland and boring but to cream as much profit as they can from the site.

UNESCO have every right to examine the World Heritage status as it is their status and name they have given to it, and they have every right to withdraw it if the rules and agreements the council signed up to have been ignored.

If it does not matter then it does not matter.

The important thing for me and I suppose others is that we have tried our extraordinary best to point out the sham and folly of Caltongate. It feels like the Emperors New Clothes but the little boy just is not being listened too.

If it goes ahead then I am almost certain people will see
79

Pilrig.,

Livingston 07/07/2008 23:54:28
Unesco have spotted the statue of Yuppie Joe Caltongate on his scaffold ootside the cooncil hq.
The cooncillors and their bosses the cooncil officials think Joe is a wondrous work of art.
80

Pilrig.,

Livingston 07/07/2008 23:56:28
82 - once upon a time it was known as the Blue Blanket, that was before the yuppies moved in.
81

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh Old Town 08/07/2008 10:48:38
As Reported in the EEN of 19th June:-

“around 350 individuals and organisations between them lodged more than 1800 objections.”

While on the surface of it this looks like a fairly massive objection vote, the crucial word here is surely ‘organisations’. What ‘organisations’ were involved (I and many other people in the area would really like to know).

It looks like there was actually a very small proportion of individual objections (people living close to the development). Could it be the case that various ‘organisations’ used their staff/members (and probably all of their families and pets) to send in complaints as individual objectors hence making the numbers look a lot larger? This is an old trick based on the fact that a joint objection (say a signed list of individuals is considered to be only one letter of objection by the planning dept. certainly this used to be the case, but the rules may have changed).

I don’t know if this still applies either, but it also comes to mind (from past experience when I have tried to organise/lodge objections to planning applications) that the only objectors who really have any right to object are those who receive notices from the Council regarding applications which will be close enough to their homes/businesses to directly affect them. In other words, many of these 1800 objections may not be accepted/deemed valid by the Council.

Last but not least, I wonder if Mountgrange have considered doing a survey of residents in the general area in order to ascertain how many are not opposed to this development. Perhaps we should ask Mountgrange if they have done, or would consider doing this?
82

Galaman,

Galashiels 08/07/2008 11:05:46
For "five star hotel, conference centre, and scores of shops, offices and homes", read "an ugly sprawl of glass and concrete boxes".
83

PaulB,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 11:30:50
The tenements at the Caltongate site of the Royal Mile are nothing to write home about anyway - just some council houses erected after WW1 in what is a drab run down part of the Royal Mile / Old Town. Sham aestheticism. It's about time this area was brought to life. As it is, it's just a windswept tunnel on the route between Holyrood and the Castle.
84

Buttress,

08/07/2008 12:38:28
Not sure where Peter was when all the 'surveys' were going on. Peter - wake up. You missed the boat a long time ago. And as for shams - facadism is the worst of sham. Like will happen to the listed Sailor's Ark.

Also - anyone is entitled to object. Anyone. OK?

Good Mike Wade article in Times today.








85

Buttress,

08/07/2008 12:48:24
Also - all the objections were (and may still be) available on the Council website.

The numbers are because Mountgrange split the applications up, so all had to object to individual applications.

A number of organisations submitted objections on behalf of the membership, based on sound planning issues, as did the (council and Historic Scotland's sponsored) Edinburgh World Heritage. That's the organisation charged with protection and enhancement of the site, with a management plan signed by HS and the council.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4289882.ece?Submitted=true


No doubt if you call and ask EWH will expand on why it objected.



86

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 14:38:26
#91 & #92

Buttress, your responses were entirley predictable.

"No doubt if you call and ask EWH will expand on why it objected."

Buttress I wouldn't waste my time enquiring from any 'conservation' group, however, I might consider approaching Mountgrange to see what level of support they got.

When I visited their exhibition in the Cannongate Kirk way back at the start of this nonsense, the impression I had was that there a great many local residents (of which group I am one) who were very much in favour of this project/development.
87

Buttress,

08/07/2008 15:07:22
I find you are pretty predictable - know not a lot, but keen to spout it. So put up or shut up is all I can say.

I think you might just find the yawning chasm in your ignorance if you contact Mountgrange, who I am sure will be only too happy now to have your support, although I'm not sure it's worth a hill of beans. I presume you did take part in the survey - which very few people actually did - and also followed the planning procedures - you could have written a letter of support. If not, you've rather missed out, and it's too late now.

Well I am sure EWH would be happy to answer any queries you may have, its staff are of course highly skilled and qualified in architecture, conservation and planning issues, and it also has a Board of Directors if you wish to raise any matters with them, but if you choose not to contact the organsation (which is part funded by you) that's up to you. No use whingeing if the opportunity is there to you to discuss your worries, and you don't bother, is there?





88

grantcat,

Old Town 11/07/2008 21:13:32
Of course Peter has every right to support Caltongate. And I am sure that he did put in a letter of support, which is his right. I read the objections - all 1800 and there was a wide range of people and groups but mostly punters from Edinburgh. Peter or anyone really could have got his friends, family and pets (I don't think pets ae allowed to object or support) to support. Indeed Mountgrange's PR company -PPS, the one Donald Anderson is the Director off did this in England but was caught out by Dispatches and the London Standard, luckily that put a spanner in the works for doing that up here.

As someone who will live directly next to Caltongate I objected and campaigned with Save Our Old Town to get as many objections in as possible and to educate people about the Planning system and legislation.

The issue is if it goes ahead will Edinburgh loose it's world Heritage status, will we have a mediocre boring large complex in the city centre that could be anywhere and if that is the demand then that is the demand but Disappointed and Concerned Peter don't say we did not tell you it would be ugly.

And #90, why would you knock down perfectly good houses, does not matter if they were built in the 1930s - they are perfectly good sound stone flats. To demolish them only to rebuild them (with the same facade but with a tunnel underneath hardly seems like an improvement from your standard. They are also proposing to keep the facade on the 1930s council tenements for the 5 star hotel!


 

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