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Published Date: 28 October 2008
IT IS a piece of legislation that has attracted an onslaught of demands from green groups and the public.
And yesterday the Scottish Government bowed to the pressure of more than 21,000 people by announcing it will bring in what it believes will be the most ambitious laws in the world to tackle climate change.

The plans for the Scottish Climate Chang
e Bill were generally applauded by environment groups, but they warned the toughest challenge is still ahead. They said that only if tough action is taken can the targets actually be achieved.

Finance secretary John Swinney yesterday declared that Scotland would not only slash the greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere by 80 per cent by 2050, but will include international aviation and shipping as sources of emissions.

The Scottish Government will also set annual targets for reductions in emissions to make sure continuous action is taken, rather than just aiming for an overall 80 per cent cut by 2050.

And the targets will include all six major greenhouse gas emissions, rather than just carbon dioxide.

Despite an amendment expected by the UK government today to bring Westminster's bill almost in line with Scotland's, the Scottish Government yesterday insisted Holyrood legislation would be "the most ambitious bill to tackle climate change anywhere in the world".

Dr Dan Barlow, head of policy for WWF Scotland, said it was very encouraging the voices of the public were being heard, but warned the targets alone are not enough. Achieving the ambition will be the real challenge.

Although he believes the targets are "definitely achievable", he said they will "certainly be challenging" and will depend on specific measures to address energy, food and transport policy.

"We will have to make some changes to our lifestyles and might have to accept some difficult decisions by government, such as congestion charging," he said.

However, he suggests many of the actions that need to be taken could have positive results, making it safer to walk and cycle, promoting healthy lifestyles, improving public transport and encouraging people to grow their own food.

Duncan McLaren, chief executive of Friends of the Earth Scotland, agrees that Scotland can benefit from bringing about the changes that are needed to slash emissions.

He says this will result in homes that are energy efficient and cheap to run, streets that are safer and the provision of good quality, local food.

He still has some reservations about the strength of the legislation, but added: "It would be utterly churlish not to recognise that the Scottish Government is responding very positively to the weight of public opinion."

Despite some claims that Scotland's actions will make little difference to global emissions, he says the legislation was crucial in the run up to a conference in Copenhagen next year when new worldwide targets will be set.

"We are setting an international lead," he said. "If rich countries demonstrate that action can be taken, that's the only way the US and China and India will be brought into an international framework that limits everyone's climate change emissions."

Dr Barlow agreed this is the key reason why the legislation is important.

"This can obviously be a critical international example of what other countries can look to," he said. "We are entering a very critical phase of international negotiations on global climate policy so it's fantastic to have an exemplar.

"The Scottish Government is keen to demonstrate it can really take a leadership role on issues and this is an issue where they can have an impact way beyond Scotland.

"It's setting a precedent and it transforms the situation from what can be possible, to what governments are actually committed to doing."

He also believes this would benefit Scotland's economy.

"It hopefully gives us in Scotland the confidence to develop the infrastructure and technology to support that target," he said.

"It gives a very strong steer to business and industry that this is a trajectory Scotland is going to be on.

"There's a huge opportunity for investment and then we will have something huge that we can export elsewhere."

First Minister Alex Salmond also drummed home the potential for economic growth, when he hailed the climate change targets during a visit to Falkirk-based bus manufacturer Alexander Dennis yesterday.

He said the opportunities for businesses such as Alexander Dennis, which is about to launch new electric-diesel buses, are "vast".

"The ultimate benefit is of course a cleaner, more sustainable future for Scotland and our future generations," he said. "However, the economic benefits for individual business cannot be overlooked."

Patrick Harvie, Green MSP, described the announcement as a "great day for environmental campaigners" but is concerned by the details of the response to the consultation that suggest annual targets will be based on expert advice from the UK Committee on Climate Change and will be set more than ten years in advance.

"There's no reason ministers can't start to turn around Scotland's dependence on fossil fuels right now," he said. "It's extraordinary they feel the need to ask Westminster what cuts in emissions we should be making, and from when."

Colin Howden, director of sustainable transport alliance Transform Scotland, warned that setting targets in isolation is not enough.

He said: "What we now need to see is the government matching its statements about tackling greenhouse gas emissions with action.

"The government's draft budget would bring about a massive increase in funding for new road-building, while the proposed National Planning Framework plans to legislate for airport expansion and a £4.2 billion second Forth Road Bridge. Transport is the basket case of climate policy.

"Until such time as investment is switched into sustainable transport, and away from subsidising road use and airport expansion, there is no chance that we will see falls in climate change emissions from the transport sector."

Competition hots up to be the best

THE Scottish Government has long prided itself on its determination to lead the way by creating the best climate-change legislation in the world.

However, in the past weeks it has had to battle to keep up with the UK government's aims for its climate-change bill.

The Scottish Government initially led the way by pledging to bring in 80 per cent emission cuts by 2050, compared to an aim of 60 per cent by the UK government.

However, Ed Milliband, the UK Energy and Climate Change Secretary, earlier this month said the UK bill would also set its targets at 80 per cent.

In response, finance secretary John Swinney yesterday announced new measures to again push the Scottish bill into the lead, by including emissions from international aviation and shipping.

However, today Mr Milliband is expected to accept an amendment, which would see similar measures adopted by Westminster.

Duncan McLaren, chief executive of Friends of the Earth, thinks it is "absolutely wonderful" that the two governments appear to be competing for the best legislation.

"Twenty years ago when I started off as an environmental campaigner there was no way that we were going to get governments or even political parties trying to be better than each other at dealing with environmental problems," he said.

He thinks the Scottish Government is ahead of the UK by a "nose" by planning to include annual targets for emission reduction, but said there was still room for improvement.

"I'm not yet optimistic that the bill as a whole will have the teeth needed," he said.

"If the Scottish Government really wants to be able to say they have the best bill in the world then they are going to have to build in a framework of incentives and sanctions and build in a cumulative target to 2050."





The full article contains 1290 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 October 2008 10:03 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Climate change
 
1

Dr. Francis T. Manns,

Toronto, Canada 28/10/2008 00:44:10
What sheep these politician's be? The global climate is not under the control of Scotland. As I understand it, the hypothesis of the Danish National Space Center goes as follows:

Active sun ? enhanced magnetic and thermal flux = solar wind ? geomagnetic shield response ? less low-level clouds ? less albedo (less heat reflected) ? warmer climate

Quiet sun ? reduced magnetic and thermal flux = reduced solar wind ? geomagnetic shield drops ? galactic cosmic ray flux ? more low-level clouds and more snow ? more albedo effect (more heat reflected) ? colder climate

That is how the bulk of climate change might work, coupled with (modulated by) sunspot peak frequency there are cycles of global warming and cooling like waves in the ocean. When the waves are closely spaced, the planets warm; when the waves are spaced farther apart, the planets cool.

Do the due diligence: Check the web site of the Danish National Space Center. Google "sunspots"
2

Guga II,

Rockall 28/10/2008 01:44:02
This is getting beyond a joke. Even if Scotland was totally shut down and everyone moved back into caves, it would not make a hate of difference to the world. To make matters worse, all this greenie stuff will cost a lot of money, and we are hardly in a position to be lashing out money to satisfy the whims of the junk scientists, the greenies, the trendy lefties and the tree huggers.
3

DunCraig,

Brisbane 28/10/2008 02:39:53
Guga, I'm with you. Pure folly to be beholden to greean zealots. Sam rubbish over here with our Dear Leader K Rudd, affectionately & appropriately known as 'Dudd' or 'KRudd', spouting the same rubbish. God/Mamon/Allah/Shiva/Jehovah, whichever one gets you high, help us all!
Grow more dope, plant a greenie!
4

Boy Wonder,

28/10/2008 07:28:17
The inmates seem to have control of the asylum.
5

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 07:40:33
The usual line up half-wits pronouncing on the global religion of 'climate change'. No sane government is going to spend billions in order to actively prevent growth on top of having to borrow massive sums to prop up ailing economies. The only silver lining that this coming global recession will have is that all the insane legislation to 'tackle climate change' will be flushed down the toilet. Hopefully the greens and all their apologists will be heading down the u-bend with it. The greens have latched onto a few hot summers and almost managed to convince enough of the gullible of their theory. However a deep global recession will scupper their idiocy - we can all be thankful for that.
6

,

28/10/2008 07:44:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 08:31:02
Dave you shouldn't jest! I would attempt to post links to sites proving that Arctic sea ice is now greater than ever and that the world is definately cooler. But once Slioch gets peeved with these snippets of reality both they and Seanie let rip.
8

Dave,

Western Isles 28/10/2008 08:33:42
Unimpressed one

Unfortunately I have just read the BBC website where it's stating that the Artic ice is never been thinner (from satelite immagery of course).

There has to be an antidote!
9

,

28/10/2008 08:59:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 28/10/2008 09:39:37
I really look forward to Unimpressed one posting "links to sites proving that Arctic sea ice is now greater than ever"!

In answer to person who's right: the fantasy planet these folk are on is one where reality, evidence and logic do not exist and are of no concern. The only reality for them is what they want to believe: nothing else matters.
11

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 10:00:56
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=309135716919866

This is only one site which points to the trend. You won't find the BBC repeating this.
12

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 10:05:24
#9, The only rather odd views are that carbon dioxide is responsible for climate changes, all life is going to become extinct and Antarctica will be populated by 'climate' refugees within the next 30 years. The sane majority just look out the window see the seasons progress as per usual and watch the you and all the other green loonies spout drivel.
13

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 10:17:35
"I'm not always proud of Scotland, but today I am... very much so. Well done the Scottish Government."

From the Darien debacle and the now the latest attempt to commit economic suicide based on the farce of 'tackling climate change', we certainly prove to the world that we have a reconised history of backing lost causes. We are also at the top of the league on developed world ill-heath tables but seems like our politicians know where our priorities lie.
14

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/10/2008 11:29:40
What is it going to take to make these morons realise that the measures they are proposing will not only take us back to the stone age, but will also completely stop the country functioning.

Seeing as most of our trade goes in and out by sea, targetting shipping with "green" measures is on about the same level as cutting your nose off to spite your face. I really find it difficult to believe how blatantly moronic our politicians can be.

These measures are not going to "save the planet" for our grandchildren. Far from it. If anything they are going to leave them with a legacy of failed economies, bankrupt countries and resentment.

For christs sake WAKE UP!! The ONLY issue is that of the on-going provision of energy. Forget about the stupid King Canute politics of trying to change the weather before it's too late.
15

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 28/10/2008 11:52:37

#11 Unimpressed one

Your link doesn't point to any trends. It is a mish-mash of climate related anecdotes from the editor of the Investor's Business Daily. If that is your source of information no wonder you are so confused.

As for trends, this graph shows the trends in Arctic Sea Ice cover since 1900. The green graph shows the ice cover average for the summer (July, August, September). [Hint: when the graph goes down in recent years, that means there has been less Arctic sea ice in recent years.]

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg


16

person who's right,

Edinburgh 28/10/2008 12:14:32
---sigh----

Thankfully not all of us stand with our heads buried in the sand, thinking everything is OK and this is all alarmist rubbish. That's the mindset that has left us with a short window of opportunity to actually get this right.

To be honest, the case for inaction is so discredited that I'm not even going to bother. You will be ashamed of yourselves in about 30 yrs' time.

And to those who say this will hinder Scotland's economic development - nonsense. Scotland should be, and hopefully will be, the 'Saudi Arabia of renewables'. For goodness sake, can we not finally make an asset out of our wind, waves and tides?

Real, sensible people - be proud of what John Swinney is proposing! And support this Bill.
17

seanie,

28/10/2008 12:16:53
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/sep/global.html#seaice

"According to the National Snow and Ice Data Center, the September 2008 Northern Hemisphere sea ice extent, which is measured from passive microwave instruments onboard NOAA satellites, was the second least September sea ice extent on record, behind 2007."
18

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 12:36:03
#19, That should save us TV taxpayers more than
£20 million a year for starters given what these two are paid.
19

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 28/10/2008 12:37:50
This is good news in itself, and responding to the will of the informed majority also puts government in a good light. As a nice aside it's mildly amusing to read the deluded deniers become ever more deranged and desperate.
20

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 12:40:14
#16, I could have pointed to many sites showing satellite photos of ice differences, but there would be no point you WANT to believe. Once we get another 10 years of declining temperatures, we'll see who's right.
21

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 28/10/2008 12:49:46
The small tick upwards on the green graph in the link I gave in #16 above shows the information that Seanie posts in #18 - that is, a very slight recovery from last year's record low, of absolutely no significance to the overall trend, which you can see is quite "noisy" - that is it goes up and down a bit from year to year.

But the denialist commentators - like for example Christopher Booker in the Daily Telegraph - make a huge song and dance about this insignificant event, implying that it shows global warming isn't happening. Their "arguments" are childish and pathetic and without a scrap of scientific validity. They are also very dangerous, because they provide succour to the sort of idiots we see posting here who refuse to see what they don't want to see.

As 'person who's right' has said, we should congratulate Swinney and the Scottish Government for this announcement.

The fact that the Westminster and Holyrood governments seem to be falling over one another to produce the more stringent targets shows the truth of the argument that governments can be influenced by what other governments are doing. The big task now is to get the US, China and India (etc) to act similarly.
22

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 28/10/2008 12:52:25
#22 Unimpressed one

"I could have pointed to many sites showing satellite photos of ice differences"

Do so.
23

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 13:01:56
"As 'person who's right' has said, we should congratulate Swinney and the Scottish Government for this announcement."

Swinney might as well promise to pay every citizen £100,000 or give them free houses. Every politician who is ranting this pi*sh will be long gone by 2050, so they can promise what they like without fear of losing votes. Only the gullible believe this tripe as they always have throughout history.
24

IainA,

Edinburgh 28/10/2008 13:06:13
"yesterday the Scottish Government bowed to the pressure of more than 21,000 people by announcing it will bring in what it believes will be the most ambitious laws in the world to tackle climate change."

21000 people, so, the Scottish government bowed to the pressure of 0.24% of the electorate (assuming my arithmetic is correct - please check it because I'm lousy at sums). This 0.24% will have us adopting a radical agenda, such as :

"We will have to make some changes to our lifestyles and might have to accept some difficult decisions by government, such as congestion charging,"

Which they couldn't push through when they actually asked people to vote on it, but, as it's a requirement to lower our carbon footprint, will go through on the nod.

As I see it these days, there are two green agendas, one is the scientific, sensible approach to lowering greenhouse gases, clean energy, better recycling of products, carbon cap and trade schemes, biofuels and alternative fuels, more efficient and smaller car engines and the like. Sensible, practical, good for the environment and ultimately good for our pockets.

The other is the agenda of nihilism and control, where extremists talk about total recycling, including dead bodies, banning the car, banning aircraft, renewables only as energy sources. No nuclear, no fusion research, organic foodstuffs only - never mind that half the planet would starve. I don't know if these folks want to take us back to the middle ages or establish a new socialist republic in the west - possibly both.

They give the real green movement a bad name, but they are vocal and active in promoting their ludicrous agenda and if they get mainstream support for some of it, they see it as a foot in the door for their more extreme policies. We need to make sure our elected representatives pay this sort of "green" agenda no heed, focussing instead on the real green movement, instead of these outrageous, self-hating extremists.
25

Bo28,

Edinburgh 28/10/2008 13:25:05
Theres so much FREE and totally CLEAN energy available for homes and transport that we would have virually no emmissions at all. If only the greedy criminals who buy up and shelve the patents and continue selling old resources like oil and gas could be made to give up those patents.

Once again, we are going to foot the bill for climate change while oil companies sit on the patents for electric and water power cars and energy companies refuse to deploy solar, wind, wave, tidal and geothermal energies - they are already developed and sitting doing nothing.

I dont blame these companies - they are just being greedy slime as we should expect, its the idiot populace that swallows this rubbish thats as much to blame as anyone.

Watch 'Zeitgeist' and 'Zeitgeist: Addendum' on google video also look up thevenusproject.com.
26

IainA,

Edinburgh 28/10/2008 13:33:08
Have a look at this site for an alternative take on these measures:

http://www.climate-resistance.org/

27

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/10/2008 13:35:27
#27:

"As I see it these days, there are two green agendas..."

I'd say that there are three agendas here. The first two are the ones you mention, the third is the one which says "let's address the real problem". It doesn't involve banning or restricting anything. All it involves is good engineering practice, common sense and provision for future energy needs by use of technology and science.

At the end of the day, that is the only approach which will work and will likely as not be the one that prevails eventually. I honestly find it difficult to believe that people like Seeny and Slioch are so categorically stupid as to continue banging on with this "climate change" rubbish in light of all the REAL problems the world is facing at the moment. Guess what? If we carry on down this King Canute road then we are going to experience genuine economic problems later on. Of course, countries like China are going to prosper because they have the sense to ignore all this rubbish.

To all you beardy-weirdy tree-huggers who have a mild coronary every time it stops gently raining for 5 minutes, how would you relish a world run by the kind of communism that is prevailent in China (for instance)? One thing is certain. You WOULD shut up then because if you didn't, you would simply dissappear.
28

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/10/2008 13:36:24
#27:

"As I see it these days, there are two green agendas..."

I'd say that there are three agendas here. The first two are the ones you mention, the third is the one which says "let's address the real problem". It doesn't involve banning or restricting anything. All it involves is good engineering practice, common sense and provision for future energy needs by use of technology and science.

At the end of the day, that is the only approach which will work and will likely as not be the one that prevails eventually. I honestly find it difficult to believe that people like Seeny and Slioch are so categorically stupid as to continue banging on with this "climate change" rubbish in light of all the REAL problems the world is facing at the moment. Guess what? If we carry on down this King Canute road then we are going to experience genuine economic problems later on. Of course, countries like China are going to prosper because they have the sense to ignore all this rubbish.

To all you beardy-weirdy tree-huggers who have a mild coronary every time it stops gently raining for 5 minutes, how would you relish a world run by the kind of communism that is prevailent in China (for instance)? One thing is certain. You WOULD shut up then because if you didn't, you would simply dissappear.
29

Unimpressed one,

28/10/2008 14:20:04
#9, "There is no serious scientific debate any more."

The only sensible thing you've said.
30

Saoghal Beag,

28/10/2008 18:28:21
30 alternative, i think there are only two options as IainA says. Your engineering driven utopia is not one we should follow. It pushes us towards technology as the solution to all ills. This is certainly not the case. We should primarily design out the need for technology and only rely on technology as the stop gap. Your option, along with the hard green option comepletly ignores the socio-economic issues that we must also address.
31

Caora Dubh,

Eilean a' Cheò 28/10/2008 20:18:06
As a university-qualified engineer and physicist I have no doubt about the relative manner in which heat travels through different gases, and the basic physical properties of greenhouse gases and their quantities in the atmosphere force me to conclude that global warming is non-debatable. The greenhouse effect is an incontestable fact; it exists just as dropped objects inevitably fall to the ground. What most people don't seem to realise is that it presents a huge business opportunity. The company that scavenges heat from its industrial processes for some other process (e.g. by selling heating to the local housing estate) is not only environmentally responsible, but it is increasing its profit. Almost every single change that we make to cut emissions increases efficiency, provides employment opportunities, and boosts profit. And such changes make the greatest sense right now, at the start of a recession. The company that reduces its energy consumption and recycles its wastes, is more likely to survive the recession than complacent competitors. Green technology will provide jobs, green technology will help companies to survive recession, and green technology will place motivated companies in a winning position when the recession is over. Going green is a win-win: a victory for business and a victory for the planet.
32

Dr. Francis T. Manns,

28/10/2008 21:42:39
No doubt the climate has always changed and temperatures go up and down, even in the 20 and 21st Century. Only difference now is we live long enough with enough prosperity to have free time to speculate about the cause. Yes CO2 is a greenhouse gas between -15 and +18 celsius. Its continued effect above 18 C is exponentially shrinking. Moreover, the warming we have undeniably experienced since the end of the Pleistocene has resulted in more humidity and more cloud cover which is NEGATIVE feedback. Coupled with the solar variation, there is a strong scientific reason that the planet never gets much above 22 celsius because of the H2O cycle. The physicist who derived that relationsip resigned from NASA last year because the director of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies, alarmist leader James Hansen, uses corrupt urban heat data in his continuing battle to unilaterally destabilize the carbon economy.

CO2 is not to blame; it is our salvation. It allows plants to produce oxygen for animals to breathe. The Sahara is actually shrinking due to advances in agriculture and fertilization with CO2. Moreover, the rise in CO2 is more due to warming of the oceans than to man. For every 50 molecules of man-made CO2 produced, 49 are absorbed in the oceans of the world. Warming does not change that; its an equilibrium constant. Al Gore had it backwards. CO2 evolves out of the oceans and trails warming; it is the effect not the cause. Your flat beer has a lesson in it called retrograde solubility.
33

eyeswide,

28/10/2008 21:49:41
34 Caora Dubh

Please provide links to any evidence that CO2 did it.

If you scroll down 2/3rds of the page here

http://theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/forums/t/21058.aspx?PageIndex=7

to the post that contains "what's the forced component through this period from 1934 to 1980, when GHG's where increasing at rapid rates" and has a graph of 47 years of global temperatures.

34

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 28/10/2008 22:12:23
#35 Dr. Francis T. Manns

At a rough count your post contains ten errors and one straw man argument. It is a farrago of misunderstandings.
35

,

28/10/2008 22:41:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
36

seanie,

28/10/2008 22:49:26
If you want to top eyeswide I'm afraid you'll have to join a queue. Apparently "Hansen, Mann, Gore, the BBC, Wikipedia, RS and other fonts of propaganda" all want him dead.

I kid you not. Post #55.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/Westminster-39set-to-beat-Holyrood39.4564018.jp
37

eyeswide,

28/10/2008 23:15:13
Snow joke.

Luton and Bournemouth had not played 10 minutes when it became clear their match would have to be called off, while Wycombe's tussle with Macclesfield was almost midway through the first half when the players were taken off.

http://www.football.virginmedia.com/page/Football/Championship/Headlines/0,,12555~1435599,00.html

Northampton's Coca-Cola League One clash with Colchester was postponed on Tuesday due to heavy snow.

Walsall's League One home game with Swindon was also called off, with the decision coming an hour before the intended kick-off.

http://www.football.virginmedia.com/page/Football/Championship/Headlines/0,,12555~1435558,00.html

Oh dear, it's still only October. Never mind, eh.

 

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