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City sets sights on four more views it doesn't want to lose



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Published Date: 19 March 2008
By ALAN RODEN
VIEWS of Edinburgh's skyline and the Forth bridges from Leith Docks are set to be offered extra protection from developers.
The city council is likely to restrict the creation of tall buildings that would block views of the Capital's landmarks.


Around 50 views of Edinburgh Castle, Arthur's Seat, the Firth of Forth, Craigmillar Castle and the New Town were identified last year for protected status following a study of the city skyline. Now, four more views from Leith Docks have been recommended for approval in the list following requests from city councillors.

The docks are on the brink of major development, and will eventually accommodate nearly 16,000 new homes. The vantage points, close to the east breakwater at the Port of Leith, Ocean Terminal, and near Leith Links, look towards the city centre, out to the Firth of Forth, and west to the rail and road bridges.

Councillor Jim Lowrie, the city's planning leader, said: "Our unique skyline is one of our most precious assets.

"With large-scale redevelopment proposed along Edinburgh's Waterfront, it is important for us to develop planning guidelines to ensure key views are protected."

Forth Properties – the property division of Forth Ports – recently submitted the largest planning application in Edinburgh's history for the Leith Docks area.

Forth Ports is yet to reveal detailed masterplans for the area, but the current blueprint includes the creation of one tall building, up to 28 storeys high. The siting of the structure will have to take the new restrictions into account. A Forth Ports spokesman said today: "We are aware of the need to preserve specific views and we take this into account in the master- planning for the waterfront developments."

In drawing up the protected views, consultants analysed each area and defined the "sky space" around each landmark to be safeguarded. The council will presume against development which impacts on these key views, although the guidelines do not completely rule out tall buildings.

One forthcoming development set to cause debate is a planned 16-storey hotel in Haymarket.

Edinburgh World Heritage (EWH) Trust has demanded that the plans are scaled back amid fears of the impact they will have on views. Jane Jackson, acting director of EWH, said: "The city's skyline was cited by Unesco's world heritage committee as of unique value to mankind.

"These views define the city's identity. Many of the views we take for granted today are the result of careful planning, but equally valuable are the unexpected glimpses, like the coastline of Fife seen from the New Town."

• Edinburgh World Heritage Trust website





The full article contains 442 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 March 2008 12:47 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Buttress,

19/03/2008 11:59:39
Pity no-one thought of protecting views when Lowrie and his bunch voted through the ghastly Caltongate Development.

Lowrie serves on the Board of Directors of the EWHT I believe? EWHT objected to that too. Yet he supported Caltongate in the pages of this paper last year (I believe he has had a complaint made regarding his behaviour in so doing) and in the Cooncil Chambers. How can he reconcile his position?

www.ew8.org.uk



2

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

19/03/2008 12:07:11
"unique value to mankind"

Nothing like getting a bit up your own backside here is there.

I'm sure they were talking about the city centre and I'm also sure there are some people that havent got enough work to do if views from Fife and a couple of boats have to halt progress.
3

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

19/03/2008 12:11:15
A bit of neon may help block out the fact Edinburgh has perpetually grey skies. Block them out, buildings touching the heavens I say - if you can't beat the weather block it out. I t would also help stop getting battered by horizontal rain, make property cheaper and everyone happier.
4

Buttress,

19/03/2008 12:11:25
That's why places are designated World Heritage Sites... maybe you need to look at UNESCO's site? It's one of the reasons Edinburgh was given WHS status...

5

Iain fae Elgin,

19/03/2008 12:56:04
Shame they voted to knacker the view of Calton Hill from Jeffrey St. beforehand...
6

the good doctor,

19/03/2008 13:06:29
give it a rest buttress! not every story is about caltongate!
7

Buttress,

19/03/2008 13:07:54
Er - sorry but yes this is relevant... maybe you should wise up?



8

seanie,

19/03/2008 13:12:40
Even if absolutely hideous the Caltongate proposals won't have much impact on the skyline or major views, given where most of the development is happening.
9

Buttress,

19/03/2008 13:31:54
Enough of an impact - and an eyesore in a WHS.
10

awfyvexed,

Canongate 19/03/2008 13:35:02
seanie...won't have much impact on the skyline or major views??
Is that cos it's at the rear of the Canongate?
Out of sight??
Come round to any of the houses overlooking the site and youll see for yourself what an impact Caltongate is going to have on the skyline and major views.
However we were all told by the cooncil that we dinnae matter and loss of views is not taken into account ( we already knew that)
Just depends on whose view though
Existing residents will lose their existing view to the future residents of Caltongate.
We are blinded so that others can see!
11

seanie,

19/03/2008 13:36:29
There's arguably a number of reasons to object to Caltongate, but impact on the skyline isn't really one of them. The development's taking place in one of the lowest parts of the city centre and there's no high rise development. It's not really going to affect any views.



12

seanie,

19/03/2008 13:37:29
The view from your house, however lovely, is not a major view.

And your personal view has no protection in planning terms.
13

Valentine City Centre,

Edinburgh 19/03/2008 13:37:42
Interesting that 'skyline' only now seems to be a consideration, decades later than it should have been a key part of the planning equation.

Anything about 6 storeys should need extra regulatory clearance to prevent the piecemeal loss of the city's very image.

I was saddened to see that even from Marchmont rather than the Meadows, the new Quartermile development blots out the City Centre skyline by being higher than the buildings it replaces - particularly with what looks light the glass tops of lift-shafts so prominently in view.
14

Valentine City Centre,

Edinburgh 19/03/2008 13:39:51
apologies -'above 6 storeys'
15

Epicuras,

19/03/2008 13:52:40
simple - cut the 6 storeys rule to one storey and everyone (probably not) will be happy :-)
16

Annoyingboi,

Emptybra 19/03/2008 14:02:43
Aboot time - the cooncil is actually thinking aboot the toon fur a chaynge! Nae mair high buildings in Embra
17

Buttress,

19/03/2008 14:49:20
Skylines:

http://independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/2008/03/bath-and-edinburgh-at-risk.html
18

Jamie67,

Edinburgh 19/03/2008 14:49:37
The view from Jeffrey Street, as seen from the Royal Mile, will effectively be ruined by Caltongate (sounds like a cheap Barrat Housing Development - Canongate North would have eased the pain slighlty).
19

THE BPRENTICE,

19/03/2008 16:33:05
#6 NO, give it a rest the glood doctor!! Buttress is talking WHS - caltongate seems to be evidence the govt's paradigm paralysis when it comes to protecting our heritage....the old school tie brigade all getting together to make sure the big developments is what we don't need.

Look at the gold coast in Queensland, Australia - investors built high rise blocks all along the main beaches and now all you get is a ruddy great shadow during the middle of the afternoon. Legislation has stopped any more being built, because it got out of hand BUT now its too late. It looks nothing like it did in the seventies.

So shout down people like buttress at you peril and/or your ignorance.
20

Paul Voltiare,

19/03/2008 16:37:44
#2 the Genuine Mary an TonyAnnette, as you are permanently up your own backside, it's a wonder you have a view on anything.
21

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

19/03/2008 16:42:38
20 Give it a rest.

Skyscrapers themselves can constitute a nice view but probably not the modern day bananie flats that edinburgh would end up with.

http://www.flywestwind.com/Hubs/images/frankfurt_skyline.jpg

What do you reckon number 20.
22

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

19/03/2008 16:51:15
Look at that photo above. It a unique view, to mankind apparently.

You ve got to love the way theyve tried to disguise the high rise drug dens though by painting them funny colours to blend in with the scottish sky....
23

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

19/03/2008 16:54:00
Look at that stunning carpark on the far left.
24

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

19/03/2008 16:55:18
19 the next time Im lying sunbathing on Granton Beach I will know who to thank.
25

Mallory,

Edinburgh 19/03/2008 17:15:38
The photo is very worrying - quite apart from the dreadful view the sea seems to be running downfill westwards towards the bridges. Surely the snapper could hold their camera steady or learn to correct horizons with fotoshop
26

Martin 2,

Edinburgh 19/03/2008 17:41:28
They are just finishing building flats next to Easter Road stadium which block the view of The Crags from Lochend Park - I guess the view for these local people who use the park doesn't matter.

But the people who can afford the the £250k for the flats will get a great view of The Crags...
27

Grumpy,

19/03/2008 18:37:51
But what about the sewage works at Seafield? Is that not a sight worth preserving?
28

awfyvexed,

Canongate 19/03/2008 18:38:54
seanie....are you blind?
Not going to affect the view.....ok,the fact that ours is going to be lost is not taken into consideration by planners, I already knew that.
But the view from Regent Road, from the old Royal High School,to the spine of the mile will be lost and replaced by the high=rise Caltongate buildings.
Some are going to be 6 storey high...if that's no high rise for that part of the old town I don't know what is.
Look at the plans,seanie , the high rises are not going to down by the lower Calton Road, oh no, they're going to be at the top end of New Street,near the Canongate,adjoining Gladstone Court, directly opposite the existing B=listed 4 storey existing buildings that are part of the spine of the mile.
Wish they were going to be lower down..but then that would've spoilt the view of the incoming Caltongate residents and like I said before when it comes to views being spoilt it depends on whose view we're talking about, doesn't it?
29

seanie,

19/03/2008 18:44:10
The idea that six storeys is high rise is just ludicrious. Particularly in the context of the old town.

From what I've seen most of the development seems a bit bland and lacking character. But in terms of the edinburgh skyline and protecting major views the impact appears close to zero.

Did tourists buy many postcards of the bus depot?
30

awfyvexed,

Canongate 19/03/2008 18:45:07
And by the way....the frae ma hoose might no be of major importance to seanie but it is when viewed frae the Canongate Kirk.....like I said depends on whose view..
31

awfyvexed,

Canongate 19/03/2008 18:46:37
And by the way....the frae ma hoose might no be of major importance to seanie but it is when viewed frae the Canongate Kirk.....like I said depends on whose view..
32

awfyvexed,

Canongate 19/03/2008 18:53:38
Aye they did and took foties o' the Calton Hill etc
when they were nae being attacked by the seagulls which populated the roofs of the old bus depot....'nother view lost to us!
An' it is so high-rise.
I agree with you that it's bland.
Comotose buildings in a Botox setting.
33

seanie,

19/03/2008 18:58:09
Six storeys is not high rise.
34

awfyvexed,

Canongate 19/03/2008 19:03:41
What is then?
35

seanie,

19/03/2008 19:52:42
I'd expect any definition to vary with context but, within the context of the old-town, six storeys is unexceptional. It certainly wouldn't impact on the general cityscape. It might still be inappropriate in an immediate context but the impact on the skyline and major views would be minimal.
36

Buttress,

19/03/2008 19:59:14
There is architecture and there is - architecture. Some is good. Some is very, very bad.

They aren't gonna take foties of Caltongate Seanie. Well OK - for the Carbuncle Cup maybe, but not cos it's appealing. Or suitable.



37

THE BPRENTICE,

19/03/2008 20:01:39
24 The G M Antoinette - a wee bit more global warning and you just be sunbathing in Costa Del Granton?!
38

Drat,

Edinburgh 19/03/2008 20:03:55
An individual uses loss of view as a reason for objection to a development, not allowed. The council uses loss of view(s) as a reason to prevent a development, allowed. Double standards?
39

seanie,

19/03/2008 20:10:11
No. The planning system is intended to mediate development in the public interest and so public views and the wider visual impact are legitimate concerns. An individual loss of view is a private, not public interests so is not protected.
40

Buttress,

19/03/2008 20:10:22
Not double standards - the views in this case are part of an adopted citywide policy, not simply on an 'ad hoc' basis.

But I agree loss of views is not great for a homeowner either.
41

seanie,

19/03/2008 20:12:51
Most of the images I've seen, with one exception, have been bland and anodyne. The kinda of stuff you'd find anywhere, not outstanding architecture.

But nor are they carbuncles.

42

Buttress,

19/03/2008 20:14:08
I think the hotel is pretty much a carbuncle, and demolition of listed buildings and facadism isn't too great an idea.

43

Max Born,

19/03/2008 20:48:00
#42
Does nurse know you using her computer?
44

M Slavata,

Embra 19/03/2008 21:01:29
I agree with #6 - Butress, do you have a job? - or are you going to spend the rest of your life moaning about the re-development of a once ugly brick shed and now mud hole in the ground?

I suspect that the Councils proposed guidance is actually intended as bit of a side swipe at other future developments at St James' and Morrison Street. All will cause needless planning delay and £millions worth of cost to developers. Create delay, frustrate the planning process at this time of global economic uncertainty, and you will soon see the money being spent in other parts of the UK to the detriment of the Edinburgh and Scottish economy.

45

Buttress,

19/03/2008 21:39:06
43 qnd 44 - I have my very own computer, don't need anyone else's, in fact I do even do work using it... and I do so hope that the planning process is 'frustrated' - in the long term, getting the right developments for a WHS is more important than a developer's profits.
46

seanie,

19/03/2008 22:08:03
I've looked at the Caltongate proposals and they don't strike me as either particularly inspiring or particularly dreadful. They're fairly predictable, a bit bland, and obvioulsy skewed towards developer interests. But then no development will take place unless skewed to those interests.

And whatever the detail, the overall proposals are an improvement over a bus depot.
47

Buttress,

19/03/2008 22:38:14
Not really - facadism and demolition of listed buildings which have some meaning for an area and its history is very bad conservation.

Little by little, the 'specialness' of the city is being eroded. The development is clone town stuff, and could be much better and something to add to the 'universal values' of a WHS.



48

seanie,

19/03/2008 22:46:26
Yes really.

The bus depot does lend much to the 'specialness" of the city. Whilst the clone town charge has some merit, that style, by it's very nature, tends to the bland and generic. Not the stuff of carbuncles.

And whilst I've no doubt the proposals could be better, they're overall proposals represent an improvement over the bus depot. I think most disinterested observers would probably agree.

Then again perhaps not.



49

seanie,

19/03/2008 22:47:22
...missed out "n't".
50

M Slavata,

Embra 19/03/2008 23:10:57
Buttress - whilst I agree that the Caltongate proposal is rather bland to say the least, I think 'great' architecture will never be able to be created so long as the current funding structures imposed by the banking institutions prevail. It is easy to take a cheap shot out of developers wanting to make a profit. No-one likes excessive profit, no-one likes banal architecture. Edinburgh has a habit of of forcing developers into a fake 'Medusula touch' style of building - and yes, it is facadism. More delay means less quality - it is a simple fact of global economics.

You sound like a intelligent person - and so you might care to recall that John Ruskin absolutely hated the Georgian New Town - think he called it bland or something like that. Th New Town was built by wealthy speculators who probably didn't care much for the man on the Clapton Omnibus and wanted to make shed loads of cash. Dirty world isn't it?

Sad that you think delay will make things better - it will not, it will only dilute any quality in the proposal and force an even worse 'democratic' peace of nonsense.

you might be better off using your energy lobbying Parliament to repeal the Town & Country Planning Act. There lies the route of the problem and not with a bunch of earnest folk trying to create something meaningful.
51

Buttress,

19/03/2008 23:11:32
I think anyone with much knowledge of what is special about the WHS would realise this is not acceptable.

As ICOMOS has stated. The bus depot isn't the issue, the replacement is. And the spilling out of the depot site, basically because the developer is greedy, and the masterplanner not very masterly.


52

seanie,

20/03/2008 10:43:20
The bus depot is a relevant issue.

The proposals may not be great architecture, but then if you're looking for architecture with a capital A, that isn't bland, anodyne or a "clone", then we've got the parliament and look how popular that is.

The actual proposals, although a bit dull, still represent an improvement.
53

Buttress,

20/03/2008 11:17:04
The bus depot doesn't now exist - so no it's not an issue.

Waht is the issue is what will replace it - which shouldn't involve demolition of listed buildings.

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion/Our-city-can-stand-on.3898166.jp
54

grey fatique,

Edinburgh Leith 20/03/2008 12:00:09
Much higher standards are needed across all areas when landscaping our urban infrastructure from design, architecture, planning, materials, ecology, to room proportions and layout, facilities, transport, community. The quality of workmanship on new builds is shocking, I live in a new box which is already falling apart. We are very poor compared to other parts of the world and Edinburgh must raise the bar significantly or loose out to other cities.So someone sort it out please.
The quality at Leith is so poor for a modern sustainable development compared to Europe. Stop building ugly rubbish and use colour as everything is so grey!!
The centre of Edinburgh has it's old heritage the rest of the city if very ugly and dirty. Brighter and quality design of buildings would not spoil a skyline but improve it.

 

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