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Tuesday, 14th October 2008

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1

Rollo Tommasi,

01/02/2008 12:14:37
Okay, tax isn't the answer to everything. But it's about time proper taxes were placed on second homes and buy-to-let properties. `
2

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 12:19:28
But the impact of the buy-to-let landlords isn't just felt by the communities they plunder for housing – they also make it even tougher for first-time buyers to gain a foothold on the property market.

Think the above comment says it all, what a load of bull! the last time I heard the word plunder was to do with the vikings invading britain.

Buy to let investors get blamed for a lot of things and as the article mentions the increase from 14% to 17% in 16 years is hardly staggering but to suggest that they are the reason that children no longer play outside is ridiculous. I am surprised that she didn't conclude that buy to let investors are the reason that you no longer see white dog poo.
3

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 12:20:04
1 They are its called Capital gains tax.
4

Rollo Tommasi,

01/02/2008 12:50:18
Arnie (3): The tax system needs to give a household buying their main home some kind of advantage over a property investor. It also has to encourage other forms of investment over buy-to-let. Capital Gains Tax fails on both counts. It only applies when a buy-to-let home is sold, so doesn't particularly affect how much an investor is prepared to pay to buy a place. And CGT applies to most large savings and other types of investment just as it applies to property.

Housing is not an open market. We can buy as many cars or TVs as we want, but there can only be a limited number of homes available - we can't just build more homes to meet demand.

We're in danger of creating a new caste system in this country, where the lucky people will own several homes as investments or for their own use but many others will be deprived of the opportunity of ever owning a home of their own.
5

Paul Voltaire,

01/02/2008 12:52:40
You never know, you may get some nice students moving into your neighbourhood.
6

Rollo Tommasi,

01/02/2008 12:55:37
Arnie (2): Read the article more closely. Buy-to-lets have almost doubled in share in the last 16 years. The increase from 14% to 17% has only happened since 2005.
7

Meep,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 12:55:42
#3 - but BTL owners can offset the interest portion of their mortgage against their property income tax bill. This should be abolished.

Mass BTL purchasers are the most damaging thing to happen to the UK property market. It's about time someone controlled them!
8

Aye Right...,

01/02/2008 13:00:55
#3 and you have to declare CGT. I bet most people don't.
9

Liz,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 13:10:12
Give it time, the BTL "investors" will all start bailing out once they realise that property prices are no longer rising so quickly - if at all.

No matter what the ESPC pay this paper to tell us Edinburgh/Scotland are not immune to the credit issues that exist in the world just now and there is only one way for prices to go.

Regardless of that, the Government really need to do something to reduce the attractiveness of BTL to investors as it is having serious negative social concequences to the younger generations and to the quality of live of everyone.
10

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 13:13:32
7 Loan interest is a business expense and business expenses can be set off against tax whilst home owners interest is a personal expense which cannot be set off against tax.

It is the way the tax system in this country work and I don't see why interest on buy to let properties has been singled out as a political issue and think it just plays on peoples ignorance of the tax system.

First time buyers have been shafted by the current government over the past few years but are too stupid to realise the real causes of why they can't afford a house.
11

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Edinburgh 01/02/2008 13:40:50
So Arnie, what are the "real causes" of why first time buyers can't afford a house? Tell the people, don't keep it to yourself.
12

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 13:46:39
I will give you a clue ask yourself what has changed to investments since Gordon Brown became chancellor? and also how has Gordon Brown been able to increase spending on the NHS etc. without raising taxes?
13

Liz,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 13:51:54
#12
He nicked all the money from our pension funds didn't he?!
14

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Edinburgh 01/02/2008 13:55:58
Stop teasing, man! I don't want clues. Spell it out.
15

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 13:59:39
13 Correct and what happened to the money people used to pay into pensions funds?
16

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 14:22:13
Is it going into their landlords' pockets in the form of rent on overpriced flats? Or is it all going on their seven-times-joint-income interest-only mortgages?
17

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 14:29:23
No try again
18

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 14:35:16
Cheese. They're spending it on cheese.
19

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 14:39:25
maybe some on cheese, but I don't think that will help fund their retirement.
20

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

01/02/2008 14:41:18
And funny hats.

The city centre WAS better before your neighbours just became a sort of student MUSH , they all look the same. I guess people have to make money , Some BTL people I know are thinking that they are going to get bargains now.

Will the banks really stop handing out this credit ? I doubt it.
21

The cook,

Scotland 01/02/2008 15:15:45
If this is true it is shocking.
"Around 17 per cent of city dwellings are now owned by private landlords, compared with 14 per cent in 2005 and only nine per cent in 1991".

I hope these greedy investors are ALL paying their capital gains tax on the profits of the sale and it should be a good sum of money with the way prices have shot up. Is it not 40% of the total profit between the buying and selling price? Maybe some of it could be ploughed back into buidling more affordable homes now that the investors have helped to drive up the cost of purchasing a home.
22

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 15:16:15
20 I think the worrying thing will be if the banks do stop lending just now which is possible then what will their staff do? Banks have proved very good at making money and I can't see them carrying passengers which is bad news for bank staff, they could end up being this decades miners.
23

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

01/02/2008 15:25:19
Good , because I hate banks.

People hate tradesmen and taxi drivers thinking that they are dodgy and underhand.

Our banks and insurance industries are some of the dodgiest institutions on earth, but your wee smiling lassie in the branch doesnt even understand the banking business.
24

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

01/02/2008 15:25:59
Sorry that was harsh, but some really are crooks.
25

Arnie,

01/02/2008 15:31:58
21 Imagine you are trying to drive from Leith Walk to Lothian Road. In 1991 you would probably have gone along Princes Street, but now Princes Street is closed so you will have to go along Queen Street and hence traffic in Queen Street has more than doubled.

Substitute driving from Leith Walk to Lothian Road with funding your retirement. Substitute Princes St for a pension policy and Queen St for Buy to let. Hence reason for increase in BTL from 1991 to now.

CGT is a very complex tax to calculate but can produce some hefty tax bills which go back into general taxation as do green taxes. It is highly unlikely just like green taxes that this money will be spent by govt on resolving problems they cause.

Affordable housing is part of the problem, you get a couple of sensible twenty somethings in good private sector jobs who can't afford a house and they have zero chance of getting affordable housing, a single parent on benefits would have a high chance of getting affordable housing and thats the way it goes.
26

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 15:36:37
24 I know what you mean arrangement fees and balance transfer fees on credit cards have gone through the roof to allow bank to advertise there product interest rates on the best buy tables. But it is senior management who make these decisions and it is operational level staff who are most at risk of losing there jobs if bank lending slows down.
27

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 16:03:19
We have friends who are BTL landlords - they would be happy to sell their property *IF* the banks paid a decent amount on interest on savings accounts (10% plus as they used to). But since they don't have the benefit of a private pension scheme (don't trust them) or high interest savings accounts, investing in property is their only way of their savings becoming devalued. They are absolutely furious that their savings risk becoming worthless simply because low interest rates are the only way of keeping the economy going.
28

Arnie,

Newington 01/02/2008 16:10:02
27 There are a lot of angry baby boomers out there who think that young people with mortgages should fund their retirement because they paid 15% on there £5k mortgages. I think if they want that return they should take more risk, with the credit crunch a number of shares are currently giving dividend yields of about 10% for example at the moment RBOS nearly hit a dividend yield of 10% the other Monday and Barratts have also had a dividend yield of over 10% just about a month ago.
29

Big Pete,

Leith 02/02/2008 09:25:30
How dare you criticise landlords who are providing the public with a service that the council / government no longer provide - social housing.Tell us Adam, what are the % changes for social housing over the same period? Tell us the WHOLE story, not just your spin because noisy / rowdy / dirty tenants have dared to move next to you!

I am a BTL landlord and have tenants in areas where they previously could have only dreamed of living - unemployed and long-term invalidity who are now living in the better parts of Edinburgh thanks to the likes of me. It's called SOCIAL MOBILITY.

This paper is becoming a bleating heart for liberals like Adam. Don't give him any more writing jobs.
30

brettgallacher,

edinburgh 02/02/2008 11:57:00
thats the problem when you allow mass migrants in you get whole communities destroyed by these people wanting to create their own homeland in some elses country plus this is a FACT 85% of migrants claim some sort of benifit how in fighting by these people has already started in edinburgh asians fighting asians chinese macheteing each other poles fighting evry other day down leith how long before the drive by shootings start we will be a minority in our own city within 4 years now these are goverment stats not media every migrants great facts
31

Rollo Tommasi,

02/02/2008 12:33:53
No 30: You're comments are offensive, they're irrelevant and they're wrong. While you may see us becoming overwhelmed by a rush of overseas immigrants, the truth is that the population of Scotland has barely changed over the last decade. And there are more immigrants from the rest of the UK than there are from overseas. And where exactly are the government stats you claim exist?

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you might be prepared to learn and not just vent bile. The main reasons there is more demand for housing than before are that (1) more people are now able to afford more than 1 home, and (2) people are living in smaller households than they used to.
32

Rollo Tommasi,

02/02/2008 12:37:16
Big Pete (29): Has it not occurred to you that, if there wasn't such a large BTL market, housing would be more readily available and affordable and there would be fewer people who'd need to put themselves on the waiting lists for social housing in the first place?
33

Rollo Tommasi,

02/02/2008 12:42:34
Arnie (28): I've not heard those moans from baby boomers. In any event, they are in many ways the privileged generation. They've been able to get on the housing ladder at a younger age than future generations and climb more quickly too. They've enjoyed rising home values far greater than will be available to the rest of us.

What we have now is an economy where so much of our national wealth in locked in the bricks and mortar of baby boomers' homes, its sole purpose being to provide an inheritance to family at some indeterminate point in the future. This wealth is not taxed, pushing more of the tax burden onto earnings and other wealth instead.
34

Arnie,

Newington 04/02/2008 15:52:56
33 You should check out the BBC website have your say just after an interest rate decision it is full of baby boomers moaning like mad.

I don't think we will agree on much regarding taxation but I think that we may agree that it was wrong when Gordon Brown to put up national insurance (paid for by employees) instead of income tax (paid for by employees and those earning investment income) in his budget just after the second election.

I would also point out that we had a system were investments in pensions had an advantage over buy to let before Gordon Brown became chancellor.

 

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