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Cameron taunts PM, saying: I'll be in Glenrothes, will you?

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Published Date: 29 August 2008
DAVID Cameron has declared he will be campaigning in the Glenrothes by-election – and has challenged Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, to do the same.



Mr Brown yesterday faced taunts from the Tory leader to turn up for the fight in "his own backyard".

Mr Cameron's pledge to visit the Fife town came as the Conservatives announced they had chosen their candidate for the seat – Maurice Golden
, 28, a former student leader.

Mr Cameron said: "I will be campaigning and supporting Maurice on the streets of Glenrothes. He is a first-class candidate, bursting with energy and enthusiasm.

"I hope that Gordon Brown will rise to the challenge of campaigning in his own backyard, so that the voters can see for themselves the choices on offer," the Tory leader said. "It is time for him to stop running scared and to stand up and be counted. I will be in Glenrothes. Will he?"

Mr Brown was criticised for not turning up to the Glasgow East by-election, where the SNP overturned a Labour majority of about 13,000.

Downing Street has maintained that it is not convention for prime ministers to campaign during by-elections, although Tony Blair broke that tradition.

However, Mr Brown will come under more scrutiny in the battle for Glenrothes, which is due to take place in late October or early November.

The constituency borders the Prime Minister's Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath seat, and Mr Brown's Fife office has taken on its workload since the death of John MacDougall, the Labour MP, earlier this month.

Sources close to the Prime Minister have denied that he is taking an active part in picking the Labour candidate.

One of the names touted, however, is Lindsay Roy, the headteacher of Kirkcaldy High School, Mr Brown's alma mater.

The main battle will be between Labour and the SNP. Labour is expected to choose its candidate on Monday, while the SNP has selected Peter Grant.





The full article contains 333 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Jimmy Le Pie,

29/08/2008 00:22:44
Seeing as the Hootsmon no longer does 'news', only printing what Labour HQ tell them,

From The Independent

"Cabinet ministers will give Gordon Brown "one last chance" to save his premiership but will try to oust him by November if he fails to improve Labour's prospects."

Oh well looks like a leaving party soon??

Now lets get rid of the rest of the occupants of the rats nest.

VOTE SNP - The ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland
2

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 29/08/2008 00:23:43
I can just picture Gordon talking to himself and asking over and over again, should I, shouldn't I?
3

Canadian Jambo,

29/08/2008 00:35:37
Let's hope that comments on this issue rise above what we have seen in #s 1 and 2
4

,

29/08/2008 00:37:13
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5

Senga Jean,

29/08/2008 00:39:36
This is not about Gordon brown...and nor Cameron ..nor Clegg...ouch.... This is for Scotland and who puts Scotland first? The SNP puts Scotland first and has no aspirations to rule the world but does work towards world peace .
6

SlyFifer,

Somewhere west of Scotland 29/08/2008 01:01:18
I sincerely hope I return to Scotland is sufficient time to watch the parede of English Consevatives prance around the glorious precincts of Glenrothes. I will happily send them a GPS if they have no idea where it is. Maybe by then, the Liebour lot will have sent out a 'hit squad' and cornered some poor fool into standing as their candidate. Failing that though, they could always call upon their well tried and tested method of putting forward their Monkey mascot along with it's colorful rossette to help them land the seat. After all, hasn't it worked so well in countless elections in the past ?
7

,

29/08/2008 01:53:30
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8

,

29/08/2008 01:53:31
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9

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 29/08/2008 03:34:59
Alas poor Gordon, I knew him well.

Poor Gordon would do well to study other great English writings he so reveres and take solace in there application to his fate.

Shakespeare reminds him of his great dilemma...

To be (in Glenrothes),or not to be, That is the Question:
Whether 'tis nobler to suffer,
the Slings and Arrowes of outragious Fortune,
Or to take Armes against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing them: end them with my defeat

Marlowe predicts and empathises...

Base Fortune, now I see, that in thy wheel
There is a point to which, when men aspire,
they tumble headlong down. That point I've touched,
And, seeing there was no place to mount up higher,
Why should I grieve at my declining fall?
Fairwell, fair Queen, weep not for Gordon,
That scorns his birth pace and, as a traveller
Goes to discover countries not yet known.

And although many of Gordons crowd may not think that our Burns merits quoting, alongside the great Literati of England... Rabbie says it all!

The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief and pain,
For promis'd joy!





10

Tobe ornot,

Canada 29/08/2008 07:21:05
All you Fifers don't forget what the Tories did in the 80' under Thatcher - Pit/factory closures a huge % on the dole. TG. I don't have a short memory. It will go back to that if you let the Tories have a foot in the door. As for the SNP I see Alex Salmond is jumping on the limelight of Sean Connery's back who is spouting off about what the SNP should do for Scotland. Maybe he should live there!!
11

tommy M,

29/08/2008 07:27:22
New liebour can't be bothered to set an election date, can't be bothered to find a candidate, can't be bothered to put Scotland's interests first...can't be bothered.
12

Tobe ornot,

Canada 29/08/2008 07:31:16
The whole world is in turmoil right now. Same here in Canada. Transportation Costs (and thereby everything else) are going through the roof with the increase in oil - don't just blame one person. In all reality the working person has never been better off. They just want more. Not just one car but two sitting at the door, holidays to Canada, Florida, Spain, France - It was a week at Blackpool or Ayr in my day. Mind you, what we didn't have we didn't miss. Here in B.C. The Premier just gave the Deputy Minister $100,000.00 increase in his wages - how would you comment on that 45% increase.
13

TommyKaye,

UK 29/08/2008 07:31:47
#3 Canadian Jambo do you realise an anagram of your name is;

nob am I and jac ! How quaint eh, by the way are you from Airdrie by any chance.
14

Tommy Trout,

Alicante, Spain 29/08/2008 07:40:16
I can only assume Cameron will be canvasing for the SNP or Libs as the Tories have as much chance in Fife as the proverbial Snowball, in spite of the recent school of thought that the demographics of Glenrothes has changed significantly.
I also get the impression Cameron is getting carried away and has become a legend in his own mind by thinking he is PM already...smacks of of Blair and Obama: Pride before the fall?
15

jdships,

29/08/2008 07:43:02
5 Senga Jean,

Maybe SNP "has no aspirations to rule the world " .
Same can't be said of A S.
This election is about the UK in case you didn't realise .
16

Itchy,

29/08/2008 07:56:01
#14 why don't you live in Scotland?

"all reality the working person has never been better off. "

Rubbish, he or she was better off a few years ago before Brown's taxes and inflationary spending took effect.
17

SouthernSkye,

29/08/2008 07:56:29
11 Rulesbutnotrulers,
Just as in the general election the majority of the UK populus did not vote for NL.
NL got 35% of the vote so 65% voted not for NL.
So, it seems, we all have governments we don't want!
Is that what you are saying? Are you advocating a genuine and true proportional representation system of election?
18

Boy Wonder,

29/08/2008 08:26:55
"Cameron taunts PM, saying: I'll be in Glenrothes, will you?"

Doesn't matter. The Tories ain't gonna win it ... and if Labour do, it'll be a miracle and a vastly reduced majority.

The Tories and New Labour are both "a busted flush" and the Libdumbs would be well-advised not to enter in case they lose another deposit!
19

Linda,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 08:45:46
Why won't Labour Bring It On?

As a letter said yesterday why are the people of Glenrothes less entitled to an early representation by an MP.

Perhaps because they have a very good SNP MSP their need is much less than Glasgow East who only had Margaret Curran to visit them from the leavy suburbs to look after their needs.

20

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 08:51:36
Fighting talk from David Cameron! However, does the leader of the English Tory Party really have any idea about the present state of the Scots party?

In the 1997 UK General Election, the political base of the Scot Tories was destroyed overnight, and to this day it has still never recovered.

In repeated elections since, the Scots party has been completely rejected by the mass of the Scots Electorate.

The double whammy of Devolution, and the upsurge in Scottish Nationalism, has ensured that it only has one Westminster MP.

Ironically, if it had not been for the system of proportional representation at the Scottish Parliament, which the Scots Tories implacably opposed, it would have even less representation in Scotland!

21

Linda,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 08:57:37
English donations keep Scottish Labour afloat.

Over the period April to June, of the £41,213 reported for Labour in Scotland (There is no Scottish Labour party) all of it, except for £1340 donation from Dundee Councillors to shore up Dundee East, was received from Unions or other organisations with English addresses.

Add to that the Newcastle Call Centre and Direct Mailing from Cramlington then "Scottish" Labour are the biggest subsidy junkies North of the Border.
22

brownlie,

29/08/2008 08:57:59
11 Rules etc

"The SNP represents very few folk living in Scotland"

Not true - as the Scottish Government, whether you like it or not, the SNP represent, presently, all the folk in Scotland.

As you are so keen on percentages can you give the percentage that voted for parties backing federation in the last few bye/elections?
23

morris,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 09:04:07
22 Boy Wonder.

You are correct of course The Tories know they cannot win this seat and are looking to the bigger(as they see it) picture,and also showing that they have not understood that the prospect of a Tory government will break the UK in two,(either that or we are megathick),
but that's something that should have happened years ago, and we are just catching up on our destiny now !
The SNP do not need to win this seat, since they have already broken the credibility mould thanks to the spectacular result in GLASGOW EAST.
A swing to the SNP (which is the least we expect) will suffice.Labour could in theory scrape home in this seat,but since the Tories will be in government soon anyway,voting Labour now is completely futile and just tells the world how stupid we are.

I cannot see GLENROTHES doing anything other than what every other seat in Scotland is now ready to do.

It did not happen at Dunfermline of course,but I'm sure many must be asking what on earth did electing
Liberal Democrat Willie Rennie achieve? The answer is clearly absolutely sod all.
WE still have a lame duck Labour government about to be replaced by a Tory government,and every one of us must now explain to our neighbours as follows:
The situation is VOTE SNP and there is no Tory Government in Scotland because we are leaving Westminster........................OR
Vote Labour (or Tory or Lib Dem) and guarantee a TORY government.THAT IS REALITY and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

It is now our duty to our country to ridicule those who say The SNP are just a bunch o Tartan Tories and a vote for the SNP lets the Tories in by the back door.
Both statements are total garbage and an indication of their own gullability.

Never the less the garbage will of course go into overdrive.The majority have stopped listening to their crud.
24

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/08/2008 09:22:25
"I also get the impression Cameron is getting carried away and has become a legend in his own mind by thinking he is PM already...smacks of of Blair and Obama: Pride before the fall?"

I agree - he tried to compare himself to previous Tory PMs last week - delusions of grandeur?
25

,

29/08/2008 09:23:18
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26

Calum10,

29/08/2008 09:36:19
Gordon Brown: "I will try my utmost...........to lie low."
27

morris,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 09:47:22
12
Its pretty obvious you are in Canada!
Firstly it was Labour who commissioned the Torness reactor (NUM MP Alex Eadie Midlothian was Tony Benns Junior Minister) which signalled the biggest loss of coal production in Scotland.Just because it came on tap during a Tory government with a resultant pits closure programme UK wide,does not mean the Tories ordered it to be built!LABOUR DID!
Perhaps if you had understood that in voting Labour you elected that TORY government it might help.You agreed to accept whatever government England (who are nine times our size approx)chooses.

The situation is even more so now than then !

Scotland now has ONLY 59 seats and they would have minimal effect upon Englands 529 seats.

London alone has 74 and Wales 40 Northern Ireland 18.

Only when the New Labour and Tory party are within a few seats of each other can Scotland have an influence upon the result.Opinion polls show that Labour will get humped into oblivion.
Its primary school arithmetic and most people in Scotland are now understanding this.
Things have changed in the last 5 years here.They are going to change even more in the next five!
28

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 09:50:27
#28:

"the prospect of a Tory government will break the UK in two,(either that or we are megathick)"

You are "megathick".

Any fool can see that the years of stupid labour have ruined this country---and by that I mean the whole of the UK, without regard to borders. What we have in place in Scotland is a government voted in on the whim of sentiment who are so lost for ideas that they are compelled to continue with stupid labour policies---with renewed vigour.

This needs to stop. And it needs to stop now. The ONLY party capable of forming a government are the Tories.

If Glenrothes falls---to ANY party---then moron Brown should go to the country IMMEDIATELY. Stupid labour's problem is NOT Brown. Stupid labour's problem is stupid labour. Nothing more, nothing less. They must go and they must go soon, before they can do any further damage.
29

Linda,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 09:57:00
Now, even in the Olympics, we can see how badly Scotland does in terms of sheer poverty of representation.

Just look at these population figures and the number of athletes that countries have sent to the Beijing Games in 2008.

Country Population Athletes

Iceland 0.3 million 28
Estonia 1.3 million 49
Slovenia 2.0 million 62
Latvia 2.3 million 50
Lithuania 3.4 million 76
New Zealand 3.9 million 209
Ireland 4.0 million 56
Norway 4.6 million 92
Finland 5.2 million 69
Denmark 5.4 million 87
Slovakia 5.4 million 58

Scotland 5.2 million 26

So Scotland is 17 times the size of Iceland, yet sends fewer athletes to the Olympics.

We’re almost four times bigger than little Estonia, yet they send almost twice the number we do.

We’re two-and-a-half times bigger than Slovenia, yet they send two-and-a-half times the number of athletes we do.

In fact, per head of population, Scotland is far and away the worst represented of the smaller European countries.

Once again, that’s the ‘Union squeeze’ at work.

30

morris,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 09:59:58
Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,
Edinburgh 29/08/2008 09:50:27

Have you not heard the Glasgow East result then?

You are talking absolute drivel !

The Tory party was almost wiped out in Scotlandand only survived because of PR (which they were opposeed to) Maybe you missed that also
31

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 10:03:04
#1

"Seeing as the Hootsmon no longer does 'news', only printing what Labour HQ tell them"

Hmm....okay.

So Labour HQ told them to print a headline saying 'Cameron taunts PM'....right.....
32

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 10:12:48
#28

"The situation is VOTE SNP and there is no Tory Government in Scotland because we are leaving Westminster........................OR
Vote Labour (or Tory or Lib Dem) and guarantee a TORY government."

What a strange statement.

Voting SNP in the general election is obviously far more likely to guarantee a Tory government for the UK (including Scotland) than voting labour.

Voting SNP in the general election doesn't mean that Scotland will 'leave Westminster' - Scotland will only do that once there has been a referendum etc.

Voting SNP will obviously badly damage labour in Scotland - thereby removing any faint hopes they have of winning the next election - and guaranteeing a tory government for the UK (and Scotland).
33

Darien,

Panama 29/08/2008 10:16:02
This article has been written with an English electoral audience in mind. In Scotland, as Gerri Peev should know, the Tories are virtually irrelevant. A 28 year old Tory activist/researcher will not alter that. Tavish's Vikings are also irrelevant. So Like Glas East its a straight fight between Broon's BritNat Quislings and the party who actually do believe Scotland has a great future - SNP.

#35 Linda - It may be even worse than you suggest (if that were possible). From the Team GB website I calculated there were only 19 'Scots' competitors, not 26. Either way its still a pathetic example of our great Union Dividend! Striking that New Zealand sent 10 times as many as we did. Amazing what even relatively small independent nations can do for their people.
34

morris,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 10:19:02
35
Whilst what you say is undoubtedly true,it does of course follow that assuming all things are equal(which is a very presumptive position indeed of course)that we should only expect to supply approx 10% of the UK team,since the best of the home nations will be chosen and that will normally be one of the English regions, and that is as it should be as regards a UK multinational team).
Chris Hoy was there because he is the best.Fair enough.He does of course make the very obviously correct statement that Scotlands sporting facilities are pathetic and once again we are the "also rans" of the UK.

Given the investement that should exist in our Scottish cities we also could improve our standing.
Personally I am quite proud of what Scotland achieved despite this "everything must be in London" mentality that exists (in London)!
Birmingham is also a major centre of population and here in Scotland Glasgow is a major city in UK terms,and we should never accept a lesser status than this in Inverness Aberdeen Dundee Edinburgh Dumfries etc. We all matter!
I agree with what you say,but of course the finances to rectify this will never come from Westminster.We are a payer of taxes,not any where near the same level a receiver of them!
Its a case of mind over matter.

London does not mind. Scotland does not matter.
35

Darien,

29/08/2008 10:29:13
# 40:

"London does not mind. Scotland does not matter."

Could be the British/England Olympic Committee's slogan for London 2012.
36

pehman,

sussex 29/08/2008 10:30:15

11 Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation 29/08/2008 07:19:11
The SNP represents very few folk living in Scotland. 80% of us don't want them according to the turnout in Glasgow East. I doubt Glenrothes will show much change in this figure.


The SNP represent the majority opinion, or to put it in words you'll understand 97% did not vote slib in Glasgow East
37

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 10:35:36
#42

"The SNP represent the majority opinion, or to put it in words you'll understand 97% did not vote slib in Glasgow East"

I assume you are confused. The SNP received 43.1% of the vote in Glasgow East - perhaps you are unaware but 43.1% is NOT the majority.

They didn't receive a majority of the vote in Glasgow East, let alone a majority of the total electorate.

They got the highest vote percentage of any single party, but NOT the majority of the total vote.
38

morris,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 10:35:40
38
Scotland has 59 seats.
What you say is true ONLY when the result is close enough to make this relevant.

The opinion polls say currently that Labour will retain far fewer seats than are needed to even begin to make the result in doubt.
Those are arithmetical facts!(Currently true i.e)

Of course miracles could happen and Labour could stage a recovery in which case what you claim becomes true.
I prefer to deal with what is happening rather than what a Labour supporter would like to pretend can realistically still happen.
How do you think Scotland got 18 years of Tory government?

She voted Labour and agreed to accept the UK result.
It cannot be anything else since it happened (not once but four times).

THATS NOT MY OPINION
ITS NOW IN THE HISTORY BOOKS.

The part about a referendum is correct of course.
I never said otherwise,although its possible(but unlikely) to record
a vote in a General Election which would make any referendum of academic interest only, and knowing the outcome in advance,I doubt that Westminster would waste money in such a futile gesture.Besides it may be already decided in 2010,but the result could be anything in theory.A further referendum is a possibility,just as happened with devolution.

The point is The People will be heard and what they say...................... will be what happens.

Democracy rules.
39

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 29/08/2008 11:17:31
Scotland merely has to vote an SNP majority of seats in Westmonster, followed by the traitors in New Scottish Labour to take away any credible claim by David Cameron that he has any say over Scotland.

Lets also not forget that both the United Nations and the European Commission have recognised Scotland as a Nation with their own ancient traditions and Culture. Alexander Salmond and his Scottish Government would then be justified to call in the UN or the Euro Commission to supervise elections and the subsequent Full Independance of the Scottish Nation. Of course Alex Salmond would be expected to confirm Scotlands place within the United Nations, and would be expected to negotiate our existing membership within the European Union, which would not include EU having any authority over Scottish Waters including our Oil Reserves and our Fishing Grounds.

Under our Scottish Constitution Alex Salmond would be required to hold a referendum of the Sovereign Power in Scotland, which is the Scottish People. The result of this referendum would determine whether Scotland Joined the EU or joined the Nordic Countries in an Oil Producers Alliance.
40

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 29/08/2008 11:19:56
I hope for Cameron's sake he is well versed at what welcome two of the most hated English citizens ever to cross the border into our Scottish Nation received, when they were sent scurrying back with their tale between their legs; mainly King Edward 2nd and the Ogress Thatcher!
And also for his sake, I sincerely hope he reminds those whose votes he seeks for his detested Tory Party's treatment dished out in August 1994 to our pensioners by one of the most callous of all previous callous Tory Govenments.
I was one of them pensioners who made my way too England's capital city to make my protest on that August day about the Tory brutality when we were cheered all the way to Westminster by passing pedestrians and by passing transport passengers.
He also wants to explain - SHOULD he have the bravado to venture up here, why previous Tory governments twice during the 20th Century ripped the heart out of basic Scottish industries and re-located many off them south of the border.
Many of our citizens were driven out of the Nation they loved in order to seek the means off keeping their families alive and healthy.
He'll get the welcome he thoroughly deserves, as I have alredy stated, should he venture North of the border!
41

,

29/08/2008 11:30:44
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42

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 11:35:11
Morris,

I am familiar with the result of the Glasgow East By-Election. I am also familar with the fact that the population of this country were daft enough to vote for stupid labour 3 times in a row. It does not alter the fact that labour are a bunch of incompetent, knee-jerk, bunging fools and always will be.

The ONLY way that this country is going to recover is with a good strong TORY government.

Re: #44

Democracy does not rule. Democracy allows incompetent and inept people into posititions of power when they do not have the wherewithall nor intellect to be able to operate to the standards required. Democracy is fundamentally flawed and should not form the basis of suffrage in its literal form.

A far better approach---and one which would return competent individuals to government---would be to add a large portion of meritocracy to the mix... A "distant democracy" if you like. We in fact had something like this in the shape of the House of Lords until stupid labour decimated it and turned it into a body of "yes-men".

Let's face it, you wouldn't ask the plumber his opinion if you had toothache, and neither would you call the dentist to find out his thoughts on how to deal with a burst pipe. Would you?
43

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 11:39:37
#45

"Of course Alex Salmond would be expected to confirm Scotlands place within the United Nations, and would be expected to negotiate our existing membership within the European Union, which would not include EU having any authority over Scottish Waters including our Oil Reserves and our Fishing Grounds."

Firstly Scotland doesn't have 'existing membership' of the EU - so it would have to apply to join the EU, not 'negotiate' its 'existing membership'.

Secondly under the Common Fisheries Policy the EU has authority over the fishing waters of all EU members - so Scotland would not be allowed to join the EU if the EU doesn't have authority over its fishing grounds.

44

brownlie,

29/08/2008 11:44:13
47 Kimba

I know I shouldn't but here goes anyway.

What troops do you mean?

Do you mean Scottish troops, English, Irish, Welsh, Fijian, Gurkhas?

Which nationality are the commanders of this occupation force going to be?

Do you see the situation developing into a repeat of events in Northern Ireland?

Which part would former British colonies play?

What part would former Scots play?

Would there be fifth columnists in England?

45

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 11:44:39
#47 Kimba:

""I will do anything and everything to preserve the union,if that means troops on the streets of Scotland so be it,i don't want to be prime minister of England i want to be prime minister of the UK,all of it,and that includes scotland"."

Don't embarass yourself Kimba - Cameron may have said the rest of that quote but he clearly did not say "if that means troops on the streets of Scotland so be it".

You are destroying what little credibility you may have left by making up quotes and falsely attributing them to people.
46

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 29/08/2008 12:14:02
I wonder which party Cameron will be campaigning for - I doubt it will be the Tories?

When the next Tory Government cuts the money that London gives to Edinburgh - before it crashes the economy (as they frequently did in the 1980s) I hope that the people who vote against Brown and the labour party reflect that this is what was their fault.
47

kimba,

29/08/2008 12:17:38
51. When you learn to spell"embarrass" correctly,then i will not look on you as a complete gomper!
As for your comment @ 51,lets just wait and see,as Cameron says he will do"anything and everything"!
48

Darien,

Panama 29/08/2008 12:22:42
#52 New Lab and Tories are the same deal. Team GB is down the pan either way. What are you suggesting - that New Labour are competent or something? Gies a brek.
49

,

29/08/2008 12:23:57
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50

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 12:24:44
#53

"When you learn to spell"embarrass" correctly,then i will not look on you as a complete gomper!"

When you learn to quote people correctly and don't just make up quotes and attribute them to people I will accept your spelling corrections.

"As for your comment @ 51,lets just wait and see,as Cameron says he will do"anything and everything"!"

But you said "Cameron said, and I quote"?

Are you now admitting that Cameron didn't actually say "if that means troops on the streets of Scotland so be it" but that you made it up and pretended he had said it because in your warped little mind you think it might happen in the future?
51

The Master,

29/08/2008 12:37:42
I'm not a Labour voter myself, but I'm fed up to my back teeth with Brown's opponents taunting him for not visiting Glasgow East and, if rumour is to believed, for planning to steer well clear of Glenrothes.

Just wait until the boot's on the other foot and either Supernat or Cameron (or perhaps both at the same time!) find themselves troughing the depths in the polls and a juicy byelection comes up which looks heaven sent for a newly revitalised Labour.

All you Nats out there: don't imagine that Supernat is invincible! Like any politician, he'll one day sink beneath the waterline in the polls; am I the only one who sees the first stirrings of this in the recent controversy over Supernat's pro Thatcher comments and the growing realisation that the pro enterprise Nats (with Mather as their driving force) talk left and act right.
52

Willie S,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 12:50:10
The frothing at the mouth of the hardline SNP wing is to be expected. However it flies in face of the facts. Scotlan's main ecconomic trading partner is, and will remain England. Moreover Alex Salmond has said that the Bank of ENGLAND will remain in control, since we will have the pound as our currency.

So you get your wish, Cameron is English PM and Salmond is PM of Scotland?

We will have a currency and interest rates controlled by England. Independence will mean giving up any influence or control we have currently through the democratic process.

We won't be able to afford the free personal care or the free tution fees that England currently can't afford. England won't be on hand to subsidise our local taxation reforms.

However we will be able drink unlimited Irn Bru and sing Flower of Scotland whenever we want. Yipee!
53

kimba,

29/08/2008 13:00:58
56. Nice try! I unlike you know exactly what Cameron said,you choose not to believe me,that is your perogative,so,lets wait and see who is right.
54

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 13:07:03
#59

Of course Kimba. Cameron will send the soldiers into Scottish cities to force them to remain within the Union.

Scots tend to hate the English for no reason yet you clearly demonstrate great hostility towards Scotland and in return you shoudl expect nothing else from a Scot then pure hatred.
55

The Dark Side,

29/08/2008 13:13:03
#56: To be fair to kimba, there is a case for saying that the trouble in Chechnya is analogous to the possible consequences of the Nats' foolhardy separation agenda for Scotland.
56

kimba,

29/08/2008 13:13:18
62. Mmm, What you fail to realise is that I teach kids,oh,and buy the way,you my friend are a perfect example of a child that can't get it's own way,so throw a huge tantrum,much the same as the snp!
57

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29/08/2008 13:13:55
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58

lulach mac gille coemgain,

29/08/2008 13:15:51
We have to be realistic at this stage and consider who really does have the interests of Glenrothes at heart ? Before a few weeks ago what percentage of the Labour, Conservative and even Liberal politicians even knew where it was ?

I’m sure every SNP member did - that’s the difference !
59

brownlie,

29/08/2008 13:19:56
55 Kimba

How astute of you to conjure up such a perfect description of me!

I'm sure that such an excellent grasp of Anglo-Saxon is a major asset in teaching children.
60

Darien,

Panama 29/08/2008 13:32:10
#64 Surely if Scotland is the total economic basket case all you BritNat (aka Unionists) say it is, why would London send troops in to 'take it back'? If there is no economic benefit, what is the big attraction? Is Scotland just a nice place 'to have'? Are the English colonialist by nature? Is it they don't like to lose a colony, especially the critical 'internal' one? Or is it about saving face or being macho, in a wider international context? "Oh, look Putin, Obama, Sarkozy, and the guys who run China, England has lost Scotland, so they are no longer a big global player now". England no longer at the top table? That's what it is really about to the BritNats - losing Scotland means losing face globally. Its nice to know were wanted.
61

kimba,

29/08/2008 13:47:23
70. Are you a complete gomper! If it should ever come to that (and we all pray it will not) it is not the case of what scotland has or has not,have you any idea of the cost of splitting up the UK,it runs into billions if not trillions.
62

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 13:53:16
#59

"Nice try! I unlike you know exactly what Cameron said,you choose not to believe me,that is your perogative,so,lets wait and see who is right."

So did Cameron actually say ""if that means troops on the streets of Scotland so be it" yes or no?

You originally directly quoted him as saying the above - now you are saying 'lets wait and see' if he says it or not?

Are you going to admit that he did not actually say that?
63

kimba,

29/08/2008 13:53:22
69. Want to know the difference between primary school kids and you,they have "common sense".
64

kimba,

29/08/2008 13:56:25
73. Jeez,stupid or what! As i said i know what Cameron actually said,you DO NOT believe it,so, lets wait and see,it's not a hard concept for you to comprehend!
65

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 14:04:19
#75

This is a direct quote from Cameron's speech that you are trying to lie about:

"Let me make it one hundred percent clear: I am passionate about the Union. I don't want to be the Prime Minister of England. I want to be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom - all of it, including Scotland.
I absolutely believe we are stronger together, and weaker apart, and I will do anything and everything to keep our two countries as one."

As you can see there is no mention whatsoever of the quote "if that means troops on the streets of Scotland so be it".

Cameron did NOT say that quote - it was completely made up by you. Are you going to admit that you made it up or not?

If not perhaps you could provide some evidence that he actually did say it?


66

Darien,

Panama 29/08/2008 14:07:51
#72 "...the cost of splitting up the UK,it runs into billions if not trillions."

Ah so, almost as much as two wars, nuclear subs and power stations, big aircraft carriers, London Underground, buying dodgy banks, and the London Olympics etc etc etc etc then.
Am I a "gomper"(?) or what!
67

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 29/08/2008 14:08:36
Kimba, you might not believe me but, honestly, I believe you: as the "Dope and Gory Brigade " with their Butchers Apron flag waving; are quite capable off 'ANYTHING; nothings impossible to these true disciples of PATRIOTISM !
68

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:21:37
Kimba, I shall tell you now that our soldiers are loyal only to one another. We are not loyal to our Queen, Government, when it comes do it we continue to push on for our 'brothers' lying beside us shooting their guns at the enemy.

So, even suggesting that soldiers would be used to take Scotland which would force friendships to break down and loyalty within the Army itself to break down not to mention you would be asking soldiers to aggresivly take control of their own cities, streets and families...

It's completely unbelivable.
69

kimba,

29/08/2008 14:25:42
76. Absolutly correct,but were you there,i think not,the fact remains i know what Cameron said,"I will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING!
70

Darien,

Panama 29/08/2008 14:26:20
#79 MacGill - "The cost is a NET cost to England as we in the Independent Scotland will be getting re-imbursement for most of the examples you quote!"

Aye, 'UK unidentified expenditure'
A precious seam for Scots to explore
But for BritNats one to 'ignore'
(or hide, rather)!
71

brownlie,

29/08/2008 14:27:48
74 Kimba,

If you think that it is "common sense" to claim that a British politician would use "British" troops to subjugate Scotland I'm surprised the education authority lets you anywhere near primary school children.
72

kimba,

29/08/2008 14:30:20
80. Not English soldiers he wouldn't!
73

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:34:07
#85

It's what you are taught in the Army.
74

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:35:27
#86

English soldiers?

You mean the same soldiers that Scots work with and live with and fight with?

It does not matter where you are from, you can get a career all over the UK in the Army.
75

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 14:36:56
#82

"Absolutly correct,but were you there,i think not,the fact remains i know what Cameron said,"I will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING!"

Yes he did say "I will do anything and everything".

However he did NOT say "if that means troops on the treets of Scotland so be it" - even though you directly quoted him as saying it.

Now perhaps you could apologise for making up what he said and pretending that he had actually said it, otherwise your credibility will be completely destroyed.
76

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:37:09
I will also add that I am expected to head down to England for just udner a year before going to Germany.

Do you think I will come across English soldiers during my time in England?

Pfft, I hate civies. They think they know the military better then anyone.
77

Greatscot....,

London 29/08/2008 14:40:26
I am completely baffled by the attitude of most of the posters on here. Many are of the belief that Labour are somehow an English and therefore Unionist creation. Please. From the rest of the world's perspective, Labour are almost a 100% Scottish invention. Its the Scots who invented Labour and have foisted them on the rest of the UK for the better part of the last 60 years. And the SNP? Just another Labour party but this time with a kilt.

These must be the most juvenile posts of any newspaper in any country on Earth. Please. Do Scotland a favour and stop talking utter tosh. The vast majority of Scots want to stay in the Union. Respect their wishes.
78

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:45:03
#91

You are one of the biggest idiots ever.

There been no referendum on Scottish Independence, how can you suggets a majority of Scots are against idea?

Even your flippin Unionist Parties are terrified of the SNP-Bill to come because of the wording, even the damn date that the SNP are proposing to have the referendum on is becoming an issue (anyone see the Labour hustings one or two nights ago?)

Sounds to me as if they are scraping for every vote here.
79

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 14:46:16
#91

By the way, you are an idiot (even more) because Labour does not actually need Scottish Seats at Westminister, they have a majority of English seats so without our support they would still be Government.
80

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 15:07:46
#95

I understand that by remaining apart of Britain our military would be better. (more money, more numbers etc etc)

But I would press to be a member of NATO in an Independent Scotland. Far better then the Union, more numbers, money, influence etc etc.

Anyway, is Europe not considering a European Army? Then possibly NATO but most certainly our own military would be pointless alone, isolated.

An Independent Scotland could supply her soldiers with the same equipment. Fair enough we would not have the same amount of money and numbers but a military could be built on what we have so we could have best.

I don't see Scotland in any wars though so we would be saving billions already out of the UK.



81

The Master,

29/08/2008 15:09:37
#96 Spook: yes, most footballers don't get past the back pages of the Sun, but nobody wants brains in a footballer, do they, poor man's Sproule!
82

The Master,

29/08/2008 15:10:23
100 for the Dark Side
83

Darien,

Panama 29/08/2008 15:18:11
#90 ThomasP said: "Pfft, I hate civies."
Hatred is a dangerous state of mind, especially for those with access to killing weapons such a military folks. Better to try to understand others views, even though it can be intellectually challenging. Your comment is also worrying in the sense that, whilst you revere and protect your comrades in arms, you must know that the vast majority of casualties in any armed conflict are the defenceless civilians, mostly women and children. They don't/can't shoot back, do they. You must have family that are civies - surely you don't hate them as well?

#91 Greatscot - New labour sold their soul for union gold long ago.
84

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 15:30:24
#101

It depends the circumstances. Civilions have their moments where we can do without them. Unless there Ex military then they have an inside to why we do it, how we do it etc etc so discussions can be good and proper instead of from those who have never been in the military.
85

The Dark Side,

29/08/2008 15:35:04
#100: thank you, Master!
86

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29/08/2008 15:47:35
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29/08/2008 15:52:09
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29/08/2008 15:59:59
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The Dark Side,

29/08/2008 16:00:59
#107: that member of our team is a cat actually, and an extremely objectionable one at that. Well, everybody has to be named after something…
90

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29/08/2008 16:03:15
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ThomasP,

29/08/2008 16:04:22
#109

I actually scored above average for my BARB test.

92

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29/08/2008 16:04:37
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29/08/2008 16:05:20
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FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 29/08/2008 16:08:36
When all you idiots can tear yourselves away from your juvenile taunting, can any of you care to explain what, in the event of a majority vote for what is recognised as Scotland to secede from the UK, if any accommodation is to be made for the sizeable (and it is sizeable) constituency within Scotland who wish to remain within the Union?
95

The Dark Side,

29/08/2008 16:08:49
#113: I understand that the Master's uncle has a moggy of the same name and that she just loves to crawl all over him and sink her claws into him every time he visits.

96

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 16:11:12
#117

The whole of Scotland will remain or leave the United Kingdom.

Or you are proposing another Northern Ireland situation which the Nats and Unionists will fighting for decades.
97

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 16:15:54
#121

The Tories supported the war to.
98

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29/08/2008 16:17:36
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The Dark Side,

29/08/2008 16:31:45
#117: good idea! I've a feeling that my native Edinburgh would be quite happy to remain in the UK and it may well be that other areas (such as the Borders?) would choose to follow suit. On the basis of GDP wealth, the Lothians are more comparable to the Home Counties than much of the rest of Scotland anyway.

#124: any more from you and we shall resurrect your old pal Poisoned Bait!
100

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 29/08/2008 16:35:48
#120 I'm not proposing anything (certainly not an 'Ulster' style situation) but that's a possibility they may have to consider.

As is the question, what determines 'the whole of Scotland'? All political borders are arbitrarily drawn. When the Romans built Hadrian's Wall, the indigenous peoples on either side of it didn't suddenly turn into different nationalities and cultures. The existing 'border' has been fiddled with and moved over the centuries, so what constitutes Scotland?

So what would be the accommodation if, for example, every eligible voter in Dumfries & Galloway voted to stay as part of the UK? Do you remove them? Do you redraw the border to put it somewhere just south of Cumnock?

#123 - you can't possibly know that there was a 'sizeable majority' The Act of Union wasn't voted on, it was negotiated and agreed between Parliaments - and since when have Parliaments listened to the citizenry?

So I ask again - and it is an important issue - what will be the accommodation for Scots Unionists? Perhaps someone from the SNP can come on and answer.
101

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 16:44:45
#126

Scotland as one country will decide the future. One side, either Nationalists or Unionists will loose but we can not make exeptions for each side if they loose.

Scotland didn't vote in Thatcher but we got her policies. Let us not change the rules of the game now, if for example every voter in Dumfries & Galloway voted for the Union then they would have to accept the overall outcome of Independence.
102

Yeah1,

29/08/2008 16:49:32
"I've a feeling that my native Edinburgh would be quite happy to remain in the UK."

You are correct - if Edinburgh had the choice it would undoubtedly remain within the UK.

Look at the results from the 2005 General Election and the 2007 Scottish Election for proof:

Of the 11 Edinburgh seats up for grabs in both those elections the SNP only won one and only came 2nd in another one - all the rest they were either 3rd or 4th in the voting.

So yes, Edinburgh would be guaranteed to remain within the UK if it had a choice.
103

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 16:51:07
#129

Just wait till after these elections. The Nat has increased.

;-)
104

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 16:51:19
The Nat vote has increased*
105

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 16:52:39
#129

Oh, you also assume that since someone did not vote SNP then they are against Independence. How wrong you are, you are quite capable of voting for someone other then the SNP and continue to support Independence.
106

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 29/08/2008 16:55:48
#127 your comment that 'Scotland didn't vote in Thatcher' is both bankrupt and fatuous. A vote was cast for a UK government, and under the agreed system, the Tories got in. All subsequent policies were applicable to the UK. I long for the day when a mature appraisal of the Thatcher Government is undertaken.

#128 Your view is something I have considered. That is why I believe that the break up of the UK is something that has to be discussed among and an agreed settlement reached among all it's constituent parts.

An accommodation would be necessary to avoid an 'Ulster' style conflict. That arose and was perpetuated because of intrasigence on the part of Irish nationalists who attempted to bludgeon that part of the Irish populace which did not agree with their views into a 'my way or the highway' choice - to stay or go, as you put it. Is that what the SNP want?
107

Miss H,

29/08/2008 16:57:04
Both sides will accept the outcome of a referendum on independence but it won't stop the losing side arguing for what they believe in.

So it wouldn't stop the SNP arguing for independence if it lost and presumably would not stop unionists arguing for the union either.

That would not translate as Lab, Tory, Lib dems etc continuing to argue for the Union as most of them would accept independence and readjust. But there will remain a hard core of unionists just as there has akways been a hard core of nationalists.
108

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 29/08/2008 16:57:52
Typo - should have read 'intransigence'.

Can we leave references to Thatcher out of this please - they've nothing to do with this.
109

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 29/08/2008 16:59:51
#137 - damn your impertinence! I most certainly am not. If duelling was still legal I would call you out. Anyway, I'm off home - may pick this up later.
110

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 17:04:29
#134

Since Scotland is a country in her own right then you simply can not allow parts of the country that appear majority Unionists to remain in the Union.

Either way you will have one group angry that they ended up with Independence or remained in the Union but the rest of their own country got Independence.

But at the end of the day we have to be mature about this situation. The losers will have to get over it.
111

kimba,

29/08/2008 18:03:31
89. I will NOT apologise for something that i know to be true,Cameron is a great unionist,and when he says he will do "Anything and Everything" he means just that!
112

kimba,

29/08/2008 18:13:53
143. IF ANYONE IS "RACIST AND BIGOTED" YOU SEEM TO FIT THE BILL PERFECTLY!
113

kimba,

29/08/2008 18:25:27
152. Typical nat,bury your head under the sand,but,i can guarantee when Cameron said "Anything and Everything" THAT IS WHAT HE MEANT!
114

kimba,

29/08/2008 18:34:25
152. yOU WANT A "SUGGESTION" GO BOIL YER HEID!
115

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 29/08/2008 19:02:55
I kind of hoped the debate would have picked up. (Sigh) I'll go and make the dinner now, but I'll watch the forthcoming election in that new town here on the rocky outcrop with interest.

Labour candidate to be announced on Monday?

A word to the wise - back Colin Nikolic. A man who has lived in the real world, built up and run a business, brought up a family, taken an interest in real community issues; a worthy challenger to Peter Grant.

Best of luck to everybody in the forthcoming electioneering.
116

Darien,

Panama 29/08/2008 19:12:17
Kimba may not be so daft. All good Tory leaders need a wee war to boost their popularity in Team GB. Thatcher, Blair, now Broon, and soon Cameron. Good Tories all of them.
117

kimba,

29/08/2008 19:22:39
Darien. what you fail to mention is that Blair and Brown are fighting a war that does not pertain to us,where as Thatcher fought a war to keep the people of the Falklands British as they requested.
118

kimba,

29/08/2008 19:28:55
As for Cameron,if he does put troops on the streets of Scotland, you can bet it will be at the request of the unionist scots,who fear for there lively hood at the hands of fascist salmond and co.
119

kimba,

29/08/2008 19:30:13
157. So tell me,where is this oil!
120

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29/08/2008 19:44:26
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29/08/2008 20:03:02
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29/08/2008 20:07:55
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123

Traquir , Alba,

29/08/2008 20:39:36
It looks like Gordon Brown is doing all
the heavy lifting for Glenrothes after all with
a predictable result :)

see - tinyurl.com/5hd65w

Saor Alba
124

Traquir , Alba,

29/08/2008 20:43:23
Here is an interesting link on Gordon Brown
that used to work, but appears to have been disabled ?

see - tinyurl.com/5r26u8

A snippet from it gives a flavour of it's content:

"Time is ripe for a move against Gordon Brown"

"I read the other day that the thing that finally scared Gordon Brown off his autumn 2007 election was the threat that Alex Salmond might stand against him.."

Well there is one rumour I would love to be true,
but also would not be at all surprised to find
it was true :)
125

kimba,

29/08/2008 20:52:53
173. What a sad little gomper, you are nothing but a petulant child who can't get their own way,grow up!
126

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 21:13:21
#157
Thatcher faught a war to keep the people of the Malvinas(falklands) British as they requested" You did not mention anything about the South Atlantic Gas Fields. Oh! that was just bye the way,wasnt it? The meek shall inherit the earth,but not the mineral rights.What about the people of Hong Kong who wanted to remain British,what did maggie do for them?

Ahhhh! there were no Gas Fields waiting to be explored and anyway she didnt fancy looking down the guns of Five million chinese soldiers or their huge arsenal of destructive weapons ,did she? Oh no! Its easy for the strong to be cruel to the weak.
127

kimba,

29/08/2008 21:17:40
180. If you keep throwing your toys out of the pram,you'll have non left,WHAT A GOMPER!
128

Conan the Librarian™,

29/08/2008 21:27:53
181
kimba

I'm sorry, but is gomper some sort of chav/geordie term of disapprobation?
129

Conan the Librarian™,

29/08/2008 21:31:00
185
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, Hoots.
130

ThomasP,

29/08/2008 21:42:10
Kimba.

You really are one fool. Troops in Scotland to defend the Scottish Unionists?

If Russia can't send soldiers into Georgia to protect her citizens then what do you think Cameron can do?

;-)
131

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29/08/2008 22:19:19
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132

Willie Macleod,

Wick 29/08/2008 22:20:16
Evening Conan.


Kimba What is this nonsense about Cameron and troops?

Would that be the Eton Rifles.
133

Conan the Librarian™,

29/08/2008 22:21:59
Good Evening Col.

I now have a vision of a nicotine stained and liver spotted kimba...
134

,

29/08/2008 22:32:47
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,

29/08/2008 22:34:04
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Conan the Librarian™,

29/08/2008 22:37:08
191
Good Evening Willie.

Thanks for your support on the strike posts.
137

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29/08/2008 22:50:16
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,

29/08/2008 22:56:52
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Conan the Librarian™,

29/08/2008 23:02:27
198
So you like it?

And aren't homosexual.
140

Conan the Librarian™,

29/08/2008 23:03:00
Oh joy.
141

Conan the Librarian™,

30/08/2008 00:02:59
202
Hey hey Col.

Perhaps he is a labour party member now.
142

Darien,

Panama 27/09/2008 18:17:35
"Mr Cameron's pledge to visit the Fife town.."

Such news!

Tory - Deposit - Glenrothes - anyone ?

 

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