Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


T in the Park

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Are MPs living in a dream world by voting to keep £24,000 allowance?



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 04 July 2008
MPS were last night accused of having their "snouts in the trough" after refusing to surrender their ability to furnish their second homes with up to £24,000 of plasma TV screens and new kitchens from John Lewis stores.
But they voted in favour of limiting their pay increase to 2.25 per cent this year, which will add £1,391 to their current £61,820 salaries.

Some 155 MPs wanted a pay rise worth around 4.5 per cent, including 20 with Scottish constituencies. They lost a Commons vote after the government and Conservative front-bench combined to ensure the pay deal was kept in line with public sector deals in a bid to keep down the rate of inflation.

The most controversial move was the decision by MPs to refuse to back a major reform of their expenses.

This recommended scrapping the "additional costs allowance" of £24,006 a year, which covers rent or mortgage payments for a second home and allows it to be furnished with items up to the value of those sold by John Lewis.

MPs also refused to allow external auditors to scrutinise their claims each year, though they will still have to comply with the Freedom of Information Act.

More than 30 government ministers opted to keep the ACA, including Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, Andy Burnham, the Culture Secretary, and Shaun Woodward, the Northern Ireland Secretary.

The Scots MPs who voted for the 4.5 per cent pay rise were: Malcolm Bruce, Alistair Carmichael, Tom Clarke, Michael Connarty, Ian Davidson, Brian Donohoe, Nigel Griffiths, David Hamilton, Jim Hood, John McFall, Jim McGovern, Rosemary McKenna, Anne Moffat, Sandra Osborne, John Robertson, Gavin Strang, Sir Robert Smith and Mike Weir.

Liberal Democrat MP Danny Alexander said: "Those mainly Labour MPs, along with some Tories, who voted to block these radical reforms should be utterly ashamed of their self-serving and cynical votes.

"By voting to keep their snouts in the trough, Labour MPs have shown total contempt for public demand for a more open and accountable system."

MPs also killed off moves to subject their allowances to external audits following recent scandals. Instead, the Commons will continue to police itself with internal checks.

But they approved a new programme to kit themselves out with bigger and better constituency offices at an additional cost to the taxpayer of up to £3.2 million every year.

The vote ensures the controversy over MPs' expenses will continue, as they will still be able to use £24,006 a year to claim for furniture, electrical goods, kitchens and bathrooms.

The Members' Estimate Committee (MEC), who put forward the proposals, had urged the practice be scrapped following public uproar over recent months.

Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, said: "David Cameron and the shadow cabinet voted for the abolition of the John Lewis list while Gordon Brown and his most senior ministers went Awol. They are showing blatant contempt for public concerns."

Mark Lazarowicz, the Labour Edinburgh North MP, said last night: "I think MPs have made a big mistake … The public wants to see us putting our house in order."

Matthew Elliott, chief executive of the TaxPayers' Alliance, said: "MPs have missed a crucial opportunity to restore faith in parliament. By clinging to the plasma screen TVs and luxury kitchens allowed by the John Lewis list they have shown astonishing arrogance and disregard for people's concerns."

Soaring cost of living leaves Britons worse off than five years ago

Lindsay McIntosh


THE spiralling cost of living has left Britons 15 per cent worse off than they were five years ago, according to research published today.

Accountants Ernst & Young said crippling mortgage and debt repayments combined with rising fuel and energy prices had left households feeling the pinch.

The dire prediction came after the Bank of England warned that mortgage availability would continue to fall, as lenders tightened loans criteria in the face of rising defaults. Also yesterday – a day after housebuilding giant Taylor Wimpey announced plans to axe hundreds of jobs – Barratt Developments said it could be forced to shed about 1,000 positions.

In a bid to stymie the economic crisis and rein in escalating inflation, the European Central Bank yesterday raised its benchmark interest rate by a quarter percentage point to 4.25 per cent.

Ernst & Young said that households were now left with an average of £772.79 to spend each month after paying their fixed monthly outgoings – down from £909.84 in 2003.

Jason Gordon, director of retail at the firm, said: "Many UK consumer segments are feeling the pinch as big rises in household costs outstrip relatively modest wage inflation.

"Consumers are painfully aware of hikes in petrol and utility bills, but we've also seen some hefty price increases in pension contributions and debt repayments.

"If we factor in food price inflation, which official figures have placed at 8.7 per cent in the past year, it's clear household budgets are under enormous strain.

"Add the impact of falling house prices and the consumer economy is undoubtedly on a knife edge."

He said the worst could still be to come, with utility prices expected to rise by up to 40 per cent this year.

The report found fixed monthly household costs had soared by nearly 45 per cent during the past five years, to take up 53 per cent of people's total pay.

Homeowners were shelling out 78 per cent more in mortgage repayments than in 2003-4 at an average of £735 a month, due to a combination of higher interest rates and people taking out bigger mortgages

Monthly energy bills have leapt by 110 per cent during the period to an average of £95.80, while petrol costs for the typical family are 29 per cent higher at £193.61.

The full article contains 984 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 July 2008 12:07 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Politicians' expenses
 
1

Nit-Nat,

04/07/2008 00:05:59
Nicola Sturgeon really embarassed her on Question Time last night. She looked terrible.

MPs have shot themselves in the foot on this one, although not as bad as Nicola Sturgeon's push poor performance on QT.
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 00:09:57

Funny old World at times, but that's life,....

For some, £24,000 is double their 'Annual Wage' for people that are 'Honest' and work their, 'butt' off for!
3

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 00:12:32
1

I must admit it wasnt her best she seemed a bit subdued and didnt challange anything said by the other punters. She did deal with her own questions well enough but didnae confront the other panalists.
Yep a bit disappointing from a heavy weight like her.
4

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 00:27:09
Aint even looked at the vote and I bet a tenner Moffat voted to keep it!

Just call it instinct!
5

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 00:28:33
I personally think you 2 trolls are the worst exapmles of childish trolling possible.

Wait 5 mins whilst I create another username to back myself up.........
6

,

04/07/2008 00:30:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

,

04/07/2008 00:31:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

,

04/07/2008 00:33:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

,

04/07/2008 00:38:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

subrosa,

04/07/2008 00:49:39
I agree Nicola Sturgeon's performance on QT wasn't her best but personally I didn't think she looked too well.

The problem is, when we have excellent debaters like Nicola, it's far more evident when she's having an 'off' day.

MPs in a dream world? Permanently.
11

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 04/07/2008 00:54:47
#10 The independence question is the SNPs raison d'etre and the man with the green shirt made a very telling point which Ms Sturgeon did very little to rebut.
12

,

04/07/2008 00:56:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

,

04/07/2008 00:57:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

,

04/07/2008 00:59:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

,

04/07/2008 01:27:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

,

04/07/2008 01:28:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

,

04/07/2008 01:29:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

,

04/07/2008 01:31:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

DouglasT,

04/07/2008 01:34:43
Westminster MPs have effectively told us to sod off, they'll continue to use our taxes to provide their not so little luxuries.

The SNP could not have engineered a better PR execise, they are sure of my vote now.
20

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 04/07/2008 01:37:56
#21 You don't get it do you, the programme is intended for the whole of the UK and the panel must reflect that. The Asian gentleman in the audience also made the same telling point as the green man.
21

,

04/07/2008 01:46:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

subrosa,

04/07/2008 02:20:13
With regard to Question Time (in Scotland), in all the years I've watched it only the SNP have always put up a very senior party member. The unionist parties have insulted us constantly by putting up unknowns and the labour party seem, particularly in the past few years, to put forward someone then they never materialise.

Hopeless one tonight with all these stand-ins for our politicians. No wonder Nicola was quiet.
23

Traquir , Alba,

04/07/2008 04:15:05
Interesting that more Unionist pig troughing
tops the headlines and the critical
Glasgow East by-election is hidden
in the minor headlines.

Getting back to the real world :

"David Cairns, the Scotland Office Minister, said: "If a by-election is not called now, the earliest possible date would be late October."

see - tinyurl.com/6979x3

Angus Robertson SNP MP
"The 1975 Recess Election Act allows for parliamentary by-elections to take place when Parliament is not in session,"

see - tinyurl.com/5wclvt

Oops, Labour caught out to be liars yet again :)

"The deadline for getting a postal vote is
5.00 pm on Wednesday, 9th July 2008"

"The issuing of postal ballot papers will commence on or after 14 July 2008"

see - tinyurl.com/63djyo

Glasgow Trades holidays are the week of the election
19th to 25th July. So basically to have a chance
to vote anybody that is going on holiday needs
to fill in the postal ballot and hopefully
receive the postal ballot form before they
head off on holiday. I wonder what the chance are
that they will get posted out after the 14th
July and won't arrive in mailboxes until people
have left for vacation the 18th July ?

From the Guardian

"Polling day has been deliberately placed during the summer holidays - Scottish schools have already broken up. It is also midway through the Glasgow fair holiday, when the city traditionally empties and the more politically volatile C2 demographic - backbone of many a byelection swing - are safely away on vacation."

"Today, humiliatingly, Labour's view is that the fewer people who vote, the better. Glasgow East - like Brown's premiership - is now entirely about survival."

see - tinyurl.com/66cr87

Clearly this is democracy British style - apparently
there is only a level playing field if
you are wearing a Unionist strip.
One silver lining though the SNP win in Glasgow East
will be even sweeter when it wins against
this type of underhand abuse.

Saor Alb
24

Traquir , Alba,

04/07/2008 04:15:34

cont.

P.S. Not that easy to find but the postal ballot
application form is at http://tinyurl.com/59spkb

PLEASE PLEASE pass this around so the people of
Glasgow East at least have the chance to vote.
25

Billy Mac,

Oz 04/07/2008 04:32:54
Is anybody really surprised by this. These so called "public servants" are only there so serve themselves and help themselves to as much of the public purse as they can get their greasy hands on.
26

,

04/07/2008 06:15:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

,

04/07/2008 06:20:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 06:24:36
Number 2- At least traquir backs his up with facts and not just empty rhetoric. You have said the same thing about 5 times in the past week.

It's like listening to groundhog day.
29

Jimmy the Pie,

04/07/2008 06:26:14
Was the nutter in the green shirt on QT last night, AM2 ?
30

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 06:34:51
Number 2/6 : "tinyurl.com/5ncw8z" - More study required I think by you..............
31

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 06:45:32
Do you think some labour millionaires bought the herald to stop us commenting? Either that or they are poison pilling their own paper.
32

Jimmy the Pie,

04/07/2008 06:47:06
These are the Scottish MPs who voted to keep the trough filled up and their places at the trough booked!!

Remember their names.

Working class heroes???

Gordon Banks (Ochil & Perthshire South),
Tom Clarke (Coatbridge),
Michael Connarty (Linlithgow & Falkirk East),
Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West),
Brian Donohoe (Ayrshire Central),
Jimmy Hood (Lanark & Hamilton East),
Adam Ingram (East Kilbride, Strathaven & Lesmahagow),
Eric Joyce (Falkirk),
Tommy McAvoy (Rutherglen & Hamilton West),
James McGovern (Dundee West),
Ann e McGuire (Stirling),
Rosemary McKenna (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth & Kirkintilloch East),
John Robertson (Glasgow North West),
Jimmy Sheridan (Paisley & Renfrewshire North),
Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East),
33

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 06:52:35
#38 - I am shocked! No Moffat!
34

Jimmy the Pie,

04/07/2008 06:55:47
#39
No Moffat but here's another I missed earlier

David Hamilton (Midlothian),
35

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 06:58:19
This really does make it look like MP's are simply in it for themselves. Snout's in the trough is an accurate description for those MP's who voted for this.

A huge, highly controversial allowance, that has obviously caused a public outcry, and yet they vote to keep it. They're out of touch with the country, clearly not representing the public's wishes, and its simply unacceptable.

I hope every MP who voted for this is deselected by their party at the next election.
36

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 04/07/2008 06:59:52
MPs should be offered the furnished second homes of their choice paid for BUT belonging to the tax payer. This way our money is not wasted.
37

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 07:09:48
#42 Exactly.

They don't get a huge bonus at the taxpayers expense, and we're not paying for it forever. Should have been done years ago. Scotland's MSP's should have this system too.
38

,

04/07/2008 07:12:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
39

LEAL,

04/07/2008 07:20:29
Greedy pigs
40

M & S loyal,

Lochwinnoch 04/07/2008 07:22:13
Nice to see our MPs are looking after themselves and to hell with the rest of the country, no wonder the public has no trust or respect for them. As for their performance in running the country I wouldn't trust them to run a raffle at a church fete but if they did run this raffle I sure a member of their family would win.
41

spiderman,

argyll 04/07/2008 07:27:25
I think you've all been a bit hard on Nicola! I thought she was simply trying to promote the SNP government across a UK-wide programme as being non-confrontational and a bit more mature than sometimes portrayed. The guy in the green shirt was a clear Labour plant, a pain in the neck basically.
42

,

04/07/2008 07:33:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
43

,

04/07/2008 07:34:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

Madame Ecosse - Fleur d'Ecosse,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 07:35:15
She diffused Greenman well though: "we want a relationship of equals with England." Can't argue with that. Nikki rocks!
45

,

04/07/2008 07:40:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

Jimmy the Pie,

04/07/2008 07:40:32
#49 Number: 6,
Nicola Sturgeon came over very statesmanly unlike David Cairns who looked like he was sooking a lemon.

Was the idiot in the green shirt AM2?????
47

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 07:43:32
#51 top put down. I will now be quiete......LOL
48

FrankJB,

Old York 04/07/2008 07:44:24
Snouts, snouts, snouts. Who amoungst us would say no to our boss if they offered us that salary?

But, if, if,if, we want to attract good quality people (nay, the best quality of people) to represent us - because that's what these MP's actually are supposed to do - then we have to pay the going rate for the job - which is the same in all sectors of employment, surely. I want the quality of our MP's is above that of most people in buisness especially as they make decisions that affect us all. Most could get a job 5 - 10 times that salary in the City if they wanted to. If the salary o offer is too low, then we only get the dregs to represent us all - and that is bad for us all, surely?

We as a democracy have to decide if we want to pay the serious rate for the job or not. Otherwise we end up with people who live in the trough rather than planners who to better for us all. Our local PCT boss earns £150k+, our local Council head earns £200k+, lets all get real!

Same argument applies to heads of charities like OXFAM etc. If you want the best management, you have to pay the going rate.

AND, at the end of the day, WE the public vote them in - that's democracy folks. Maybe less MP's beter paid would be the answer??
49

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 07:44:51
#53 - HO HO HO GREEN...............PLACEMAN............
50

Phil C,

04/07/2008 07:45:33
I just pray that one day we will not need politicians and that an independent Scotland can be run by normal people with experience and integrity. They would be paid as any other professional worker. The main decisions could be taken by the people through electronic referendums/a. That would be real democracy, without party political divides...and the snouts would be taken out the troughs!
51

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

04/07/2008 07:47:10
The president of America gets a salary of $200,000 and expenses of 50,000

Our MPS gets wads more in pounds in salaries, wifes salaries, cousin berts salaries oh and John Lewis!

52

obeone,

04/07/2008 07:49:32
YEah who was the guy in the green shirt? Lets get him. He'll be first against the wall come independence. Doesn't he understand the new order in Scotland, a one party nationalist state. Scotland/SNP Uber Alles
53

Jimmy the Pie,

04/07/2008 07:51:46
Here's another snout who voted for her place at the trough


Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick & Cumnock),
54

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 07:56:20
The guy in the green shirt I think was comedian David Mitchell (Mark from Peep Show).

And to #55, I'd have no problem paying a huge salary to MP's if they were worth it. However most are inept. If I was running my own company, would I want to employ many of them on ability? I think not.
55

Calgacas,

04/07/2008 08:00:23
Another huge mistake by Labour, at least another twenty seats down the swanny, will they have any left after the next election. A golden opportunity lost.The rot gets deeper by the day.
56

Rodster,

Glasgow 04/07/2008 08:06:06
I do not often , in fact never heap praise on Unionists ,however today I feel I must.
The bye election has begun , I do not know how they managed it but never in all the years I have watched QT have I ever before noticed an audience quite like last night.
Even by recent QT programmes the audience was very partisan towards the government and Brown .
If you have watched over last few months the anger of the audiences is apparent,not so last night .
The muppet in green and his placeman behind him congratulating him immediately ( bit like unionist postings on line n'est pas?)
That was only the start it will get more and more partisan and anti Independence in the next 3 weeks .
Every dirty trick will be used , however back to the thread , dishonest ,corrupt , distasteful there are not enough words in the English language to describe the decision of the MPs last night on this vote .
Another union dividend I suppose

57

Thistledhu,

04/07/2008 08:06:14
John Mcfall head of finance committee also represents one of the most deprived constituancy's in scotland.

Votes for keeping the allowances increaseing allowances for constituancy offices (which are a cover to pass money on to family and party cronies)

of course this is done safe in the knowledge that he is one of the safest labour seats going (despite the fact the local labour party has been found to be rotten to the core by labour head office and Audit scotland)

and of course the amount of mps in the chamber and who turned up to vote say's it all about there priority's i think shameless
58

buller,

Macduff 04/07/2008 08:07:09
All this and the GOLD PLATED PENSION, how can these people claim to represent us when they are so far removed from the real world ? They just don't have any clue !

James Whale on Talk Radio is campaigning that come the next election , you can vote for whoever you like , BUT not the standing MP , so that they might get the message that they are ALL as bad, ignorant , greedy out of touch as oneanother !! Sounds like not a bad idea
59

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 04/07/2008 08:08:08
#42

"MPs should be offered the furnished second homes of their choice paid for BUT belonging to the tax payer. This way our money is not wasted."

Even more cost effective would be to house them in a council flat in Tower Hamlets, furnished with items bought at the local charity shop.
60

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 04/07/2008 08:10:06
I hope this becomes one of the main issues in the by election. Vote Labour send another Piggy to the trough.
61

Scotish Exile,

04/07/2008 08:17:16
why should they be allowed to vote on their own pay and expenses, they are normally keen to canvass the opinion of "focus groups" so whay not on this issue...ah.. that's right, they would probably get told to p8ss off
62

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 04/07/2008 08:18:32
#48

"How do you listen to Groundhog day?"

On February 2nd you stick your head in a hole in the ground and listen for distinctive sound of Groundhogs tunnelling.

This should make you feel right at home Number 6, since from your posts it can be deduced, that having your head stuck up some dirty whole is what you do 365 days a year
63

1745,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 08:18:52
Why have a panel which includes a comedian who seems to know little about A)Politics and B)Scotland ?
The Lib Dem MEP seemed to think that if she "did not like it " then the matter was consigned to the bin.
David Cairns self satisfied Labour, probably knew the guy in the ghastly green shirt.
64

M.T.,

04/07/2008 08:22:37
The MP's have voted not only to retain their taxfree allowances but also refused to allow external auditors to scrutinise their claims each year, though they will still have to comply with the Freedom of Information Act.

Whilst they are living in their dream world, they have made our lives a nightmare.
65

cabrach loon,

inverness 04/07/2008 08:27:40
the lack of moralit in public life by the representatives of the people says it all - fit to cheat and conspire and lie but not fit oor competent to govern - vote the lot out who voted to keep their greedy snouts in the trough at a time like this! Hides like elephants!
66

john z,

edinburgh 04/07/2008 08:30:42
Are MPs living in a dream world by voting to keep £24,000 allowance?

Yes.
67

gus1940,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 08:36:12
An enquiry should be held into how The BBC selected the audience and then selected which members thbereof should speak for last night's QT - it certainly did not reflect a cross section of political opinion in Scotland.

There is no depth to which the unionists will not descend to get their lies, deceptions and scare stories prominently shoved in our faces.
68

JayJay,

Right here 04/07/2008 08:40:00
The issue of the myriad of taxes on fuel was discussed the day before. You'll all recall the wise words of a couple of Labour nodding dogs who described the cost of fuel as a "complex issue" that had to be considered "in the round". So that one was left in the pot over the summer, and petrol remains at £1.20 per litre.
As for their own expenses and salaries, issues on which the entire country would have a strong view, its party hat and balloon time, and yes yes yes.
Many of these Labour MPs know their time is nearly up, and I suspect their "yes" vote reflects a deep desire to ensure that they don't miss last orders on the gravy train.
If Brown has no clue why people hold him in deep contempt, their blood pressure rises with every trip to the petrol station, the supermarket or when the latest electricity bill is delivered. They see MPs do little to curb wildly excessive taxation combined with reckless spending and reasonably ask "what are these dummies doing for me".
They could reign in oil and energy companies who combine huge price hikes with huge profit increases-they could create a FSA with teeth to curb oil speculation in the markets. But these mere trifles need to take second place to far more important business, like a new telly from John Lewis!
69

jdships,

04/07/2008 08:44:44

55
No problem with the salary issue if there was " a value for money" end product .While I have only ever met a few MP's/MSP's there is an egotistical streak showing in all of them - probably explains why they "applied" for the job in the first place !.

Re expenses . Another huge mistake by the Labour Party .
Why don't parliament have a designated block of houses/apartments that MP's can use when in London.
That way the cost can be controlled.

Re N S's performance on QT
" People often as k the question
"Will the real N.S. please stand up ?"
Last night I think she did - inept to say the least.

Interested to note the SNP activists defending her ala "Scotsman" alledgedlly does for Labour !
They just cannot accept criticsm - sad !
70

Edward,

04/07/2008 08:51:11
On last nights Question TIme there were at least 2 Labour activist plants, placed in the centre of the audience on the same row. The one with the loud green Ralph Lauren 'Polo' shirt and toward the centre the one in the reddish Ralph Lauren 'Polo' shirt . Neither from Musselburgh and definately not your ordinary 'man in the street' They tended to make statements as apposed to normal questions. Stood out a bit. Probably freinds of Simon Pia
71

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 04/07/2008 08:57:10
MPs/MSPs should be paid the national average wage. No more, no less.

If we have to live on it, then so should they.

It is immoral to demand more before one serves one's country.
72

obeone,

04/07/2008 09:02:57
78 you're right, damn those labour unionist stooges calling for an immediate referendum! A true patriot doesn't want a referendum for two years.
73

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 04/07/2008 09:06:07
I am a peasant revolted by them.
74

Bewildered,

GLASGOW 04/07/2008 09:11:57
If I was required to have two homes, one of them in London, I would expect the costs of the London home to be met. It may well be that the system on MPs expenses has been abused and badly controlled. Tighter controls, properly applied, would deal with this, and strong sanctions (sacking of MPs) who break the rules). Other organisations and companies can do this; why not Parliament ?
75

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 09:12:04
80

Oh aye a true patriot would want a party to call the shots from the opposition benches.
A true patriot would expect his or her country to be governed by the party which lost the election.
A true patriot would expect his or her government to completely ignore their manifesto promises.
A true patriot would give his or her full support for the party which can flip flop the most times in a week.
A true patriot will now expect the party which called for a referendum to fully support that referendum when it arrives in the future no doubt what do you think?
76

margaux 57,

04/07/2008 09:13:41
Just heard Brian Donohue on Radio Scotland-Was he angry!How dare us plebs think that M.P,S dont deserve all they can get!They NEED £24000 to furnish their London flat-but what happens NEXT YEAR?Do they furnish it again?This article says that its per year.INDEFENSIBLE!
77

A Crofter,

Western Isles 04/07/2008 09:13:56
Our MPs are bad enough - but not a patch on our MEPs, who continue to block all attempts to release any details of their junketing, the annual cost of which is estimated at £150m. Not really surprising for an outfit that hasn't been able to produce any audited accounts for decades!

Can we have a referendum on whether to ditch ALL politicians at EVERY level?
78

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 09:13:57
78

They both in fact had Southern English accents.
Yep they stood out like sore thumbs.
79

Edward,

04/07/2008 09:14:11
The List of 17 Scottish scum leetches
Gordon Banks (Ochil & Perthshire South),
Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston & Bellshill),
Michael Connarty (Linlithgow & Falkirk East),
Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West),
Brian Donohoe (Ayrshire Central),
David Hamilton (Midlothian),
Jimmy Hood (Lanark & Hamilton East),
Adam Ingram (East Kilbride, Strathaven & Lesmahagow),
Eric Joyce (Falkirk),
Tommy McAvoy (Rutherglen & Hamilton West),
James McGovern (Dundee West),
Anne McGuire (Stirling),
Rosemary McKenna (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth & Kirkintilloch East),
Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick & Cumnock),
John Robertson (Glasgow North West),
Jimmy Sheridan (Paisley & Renfrewshire North),
Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East)

These people are beyond contempt, in view of how the people they
supposedly represent, are having to deal with the realities of life and this bunch can swan around John Lewis ordering what they like, tax free!
If your MP is named and shamed here, remember they need your vote to
remain in Parliament, they need your vote to continue to enjoy the ‘perks’
There are other Scottish MP’s missing, abstention is no excuse!
80

,

04/07/2008 09:15:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
81

La5t_minit,

04/07/2008 09:19:58
Just typical of those self centered robbing scum that they have the cheek to tell ordinary working people they cant get a penny without working their asses off for it, whilst at the same time they rob the same working people blind through taxes to pay for their own 'luxuries'.

Where's Guy Fox when you really need him?. These arrogant idiots couldnt run the lenghth of their own recently remodelled kitchens without claiming taxi fare let alone run the country.

They make me sick.
82

,

04/07/2008 09:20:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
83

Edward,

04/07/2008 09:21:36
Westminster Parliamet 'The gift that gives on giving'!
84

archie12,

04/07/2008 09:21:56
.....and the one with the snout deepest into the trough is the record breaking claimant Anne Moffat, the biggest leech of all.
Tell me, have the Police discovered what everyone in Port Seton/Cockenzie reckons about her "assault and robbery" by so-called scum? "Drunk woman falls over and tells porkies to save face" You're the scum Moffat, and you know it. You also read this so quick before its blue pencilled by the Hootsmon.
85

shivago8,

livingston 04/07/2008 09:25:21
They are not above the law.

I say--next election.

Everyone boycott the polls.

Shower of crooks
86

subrosa,

04/07/2008 09:30:01
# 32

David Dimbleby was very biased on QT too. I counted he 'blanked' Nicola 7 times. Not good for a so-called chairperson.

Nicola knew the type of audience they were (she's a clever woman) so decided the best way was to play it subtle. Dimbleby didn't even give her the chance to respond when Cairns accused her of not knowing the 'rules' concerning by-elections when Westminster isn't sitting. Biased BBC behaviour as usual.
87

subrosa,

04/07/2008 09:32:56
# 66

Not a bad idea. Thanks for letting me know James Whale's still on radio and being himself.
88

,

04/07/2008 09:33:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
89

bluehead,

edinburgh 04/07/2008 09:35:33
is it surprising what any politician does when it comes to looking after themselves?once they change over
from being normal people into zombified creatures,who stalk the weird ,murky world of politics and concentrate on making sure everything becomes very cosy for themselves,they even have the brass neck to mention the word ,Democracy,as if it ever existed in this country, I hear repeated calls for reforms of one thing or another,then the priority place to start is in the house of commons,wherein all the main evil of this country stems from
90

Jimmy the Pie,

04/07/2008 09:36:36
#93 shivago8,

Boycotting the polls would be the worst possible thing to do. That would let the likes of the halfwit in the green shirt do what all New Labour Sleaze activists do - jump on the gravy train.

Vote SNP

The ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland
91

Jimmy the Pie,

04/07/2008 09:38:11
#96 Number: 6,

Would that have been Donald Dewar or Henry McLeish?
92

Linda,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 09:43:04
# 94 is right. For the first three questions Nicola was called to speak before David Cairns who had last word.

On MPs expenses just bring on Independence and save money by abolishing Scottish Constituency MPs at Westminste.
93

Publius,

Girvan 04/07/2008 09:43:39
Couple of points:
(1) MPs' expenses. Either Labour MPs know that they'll lose their seats in two years' time so they they are grabbing as much as they can while they're still there or they are too stupid to know what they are doing. Perhpas a Labour supporter could tell us which it is.
(2) Question Time. I never reckoned much to Nicola. Her performance was poor like it usually is. Of course, there are plants in Question Time audiences. Time was when Labour would fill the audience with dozens of plants whose job it was to howl down anyone they didn't like. Now they can manage only one or two plants. But I thought the SNP would have planted a few more people. SNP organisation is may not be as good as they claim.
94

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 09:43:49
These perks should go. There should be also a uniform system for employing staff and a pay grade scale, they should not be allowed to use it however they like. They should be involved in the shortlisting and hiring of their staff, but with others on the interview panel to make sure it's not a sham. They should not be allowed to employ members of their own family, that's called nepotism. If they had the capacity they would be ashamed of themselves, but they haven't. They had a cheek given the 10p tax band abolition.
Some people struggle to maintain one house, and while they are struggling their taxes are paying for these pigs to pay for two houses to a level that is completely unacceptable.
How much do the 59 Scottish MPs cost?
95

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 09:47:10
And Peter Kilfoyle MP said he was effectively 'self-employed' - what image do these guys have of themselves.
96

Edward,

04/07/2008 09:47:13
#96 Number 6
You must be blind as well as stupid!
Alex Salmond makes a point of being in Westminster, when it doesnt clash with Holyrood and when its about non devolved matters that could effect Scotland
97

PaulW,

Borders 04/07/2008 09:47:14
#99 Don't waste your time with Number 6 (that's his IQ, by the way and he deserves sympathy)

The only way to respond to numpties / stooges like the Mr Green Ralph lauren shirt and IQ=6 is to stick it to them where it hurts - deliver leaflets, donate, or canvass for the SNP. In doing so, make sure the voters of Glasgow East have the last laugh over the Mugabe-esque New Liebour party, who would give Uncle Jo Stalin a run for his money in terms of running a rotten burgh.
98

albanman,

04/07/2008 09:47:32
I've made a careful note that our MP, Gavin Strang, voted for a pay increase above the official rate of inflation whilst the rest of us have to do with around 2%. Come election time, my vote will go elsewhere.
99

PaulW,

Border 04/07/2008 09:51:11
#102

Another good reason to elect more SNP MPs so we can negotiate Independence - no need for Westminster MPs and their snouts in the trough, if we all vote accordingly.
100

Edward,

04/07/2008 09:55:28
#94 Subroas
Thought David Dimbleby was a bit bias as well when he started to ignore Nicola
The panel itself want any great shakes, with only 2 Scottish politicians. The rest made up of an English comedian, an English Tory and an English Liberal peer. The latter three a bit ignorant of what goes on in Scotland, actually you could add David Cairns to that.

A slight observation about David Cairns, not political. I noticed that he has quite long finger nails, in fact longer than either of the ladies on the panel. Wouldnt read to much into that, but....
101

Thistledhu,

04/07/2008 09:55:45
Mugabe would be proud perhaps the westminster mp's and he can arrange exchange visits
102

Publius,

Girvan 04/07/2008 09:56:24
#107 PaulW

Not if they're like the SNP candidate for Glasgow East. He says he is a full time councillor. SNP is just like Scottish Labour - putting forward people with no idea how to generate wealth. Scotland needs politicians who can do things, not just spend taxpayers' money.
103

Edward,

04/07/2008 09:56:48
#106 albanman,
That will be Gavin Strang, that had intended to stand down, but changed his mind. Obviously life is too good being an MP
104

Paraclete,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 09:57:52
MP`s should be told what to shop at argos ! A freind of mine who worked all his life ended up in supported accomodation through illness. When he was able to live on his own again he got a grant of £750 to furnish his house and was told to use argos for the best prices
105

Thistledhu,

04/07/2008 10:04:36
Armed forces members have to use the houseing provided whne they move to take up postings if they wish to use other accomadation they have to pay for it themselves.

Mp.s must beleive that is right as they allow it to happen to armed forces why cant they use married quarters in london?
106

Mike555,

04/07/2008 10:15:00
Just wonder if the pigs that voted to keep their noses in the trough buy new kitchens every year, plus new televisions, washing machines etc, etc.

Just remember who voted to keep these sickening perks and get them out next time, see below:

Gordon Banks (Ochil & Perthshire South),
Tom Clarke (Coatbridge),
Michael Connarty (Linlithgow & Falkirk East),
Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West),
Brian Donohoe (Ayrshire Central),
Jimmy Hood (Lanark & Hamilton East),
Adam Ingram (East Kilbride, Strathaven & Lesmahagow),
Eric Joyce (Falkirk),
Tommy McAvoy (Rutherglen & Hamilton West),
James McGovern (Dundee West),
Ann e McGuire (Stirling),
Rosemary McKenna (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth & Kirkintilloch East),
John Robertson (Glasgow North West),
Jimmy Sheridan (Paisley & Renfrewshire North),
Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East),


107

Scotish Exile,

04/07/2008 10:15:17
James Whale got the boot from Talk Sport, and can now be seen trying to flog tat on one of those tv auction programmes available on freeview, very funny indeed
108

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 10:15:21
90

Plants, stoogies, activists, call em what you like its all part and parcel to the deceitful manner in which unionists conduct themselves. No trick is too low and no lie is too big.
But then this union could only exist on lies and deceit after all it was born from lies and deceit.
109

yolanda,

04/07/2008 10:18:26

They are stuffing their pockets to create an even bigger nest egg for themselves, because they know that, having stuffed US for too long, their days are numbered. I hope every last one of them gets what they deserve - booted out on their greedy corrupt backsides.

Nobody in their right minds can possibly see Labour as a party worth voting for any more. Not even the old dyed in the wool ones. Time and again they have cheated, lied, stolen and disappointed.
110

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 10:19:08
4

Bullsh*t Nicola is a real political heavyweight in the Parliament and can hold her own with the best. When Alex steps down I would expect and hope Nicola steps up for the leadership rather than Swinney.
111

hertscot,

04/07/2008 10:19:49
Time to use the FOI act, if I ever get all the expense claims for each MP since the last general election I will share them free with anyone who is interested.

No doubt there will be good and bad, but I helped elect one of these idiots.

As for Brown's listening government, they must all have their fooking ear plugs in.
112

pwd,

Borders 04/07/2008 10:26:53
* 1, 4 (et al)

Yes she was very poor but she never is vey good when she has to move away from the official SNP mantra/line and deal with any substance. The current sad state of the Labour Party makes her look better than she is. "Green shirt" and the Scottish Asian gentleman left her standing and what came through very clearly in audience responses was the overwhelming opposition to independence. Clearly, very few of the 17% of the electorate who voted SNP in 2007 were present.
113

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 04/07/2008 10:36:31
The Question time prog. last night was very stage managed and the Chairmans manner towards Nicola was typical BBC, as if he was addressing an impertinent small child.

The establishment is having a great deal of trouble in coming to terms with the forthcoming independence, and they like Labour are still in denial, as if this is just a temporary condition and normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.

I am contacting every Scottish MP who voted for this disgusting allowance package, their greed knows no bounds. I advise every one to do the same their are plenty on line facilities for sending e-mails to MPs, lets blitz them with our anger and contempt.
114

brownlie,

04/07/2008 10:43:15
Strange that No 6 consistently puts forward the same arguements as AM2/Highland even to the extent of the remark regarding Gaelic TV.

All MPs should be on performance related pay and their pay the following year should reflect what positive achievements and benefits to the community they can demonstrate to their constituents for the current year.

I used to travel on the plane to London on a weekly basis and I recall MPs boasting that, at that time, they were travelling on the most inexpensive ticket but were allowed to claim expenses for the most expensive flight which cost around three times as much.

The Glasgow sleeper on a Thursday night would be full of individuals, inebriated and recognisable, who were also claiming for the more expensive airline tickets.
115

brownlie,

04/07/2008 10:48:00
120 pwd

"very few of the 17% who voted SNP in 2007 were present"

Perhaps, they were doing more important things like canvassing in Glasgow East.

What is a "Scottish Asian"? Did he identify himself to you as such?
116

subrosa,

04/07/2008 10:48:02
# 108.

Edward, thank you for your observation. Very interesting. This week's lines for me are "I must pay more attention to detail."
117

Cramondo,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 10:49:45
This is a funnier than usual thread by SNP cheerleader standards.

First, we have the assumption that A Moffat must have voted to keep the expenses, when she didn't.

And there's another theme emerging that somehow last night's QT was part of a New Labour conspiracy to keep a unionist slant on things with there being a by-election coming up. Get a grip.
118

subrosa,

04/07/2008 10:51:46
# 120

Be fair now, give us the percentage of labour, libdem and tory while you're at it.
119

Upandunder,

04/07/2008 10:57:26
Trouble is that many Labour MPs know they have a job for life.

In many constituencies if a tailor's dummy stood with a red rosette it'd get elected.

As for the SNP, I fear seeing Alex Salmond's face when the subsidy from England's south-east stops. It really hurts me to say this, but I cannot see Scotland being a prosperous independent nation.

Too many people living off the state, too many left-wing activists who will fight, fight and fight for "free this" and "free that" for Scotland's armies of drunk and drugged-up won't-works. Face facts: There's an unsustainable number of people in the nation content to live a "cradle to the grave" lifestyle at the taxpayers' expense.

The only way Scotland could go it alone is if the voter embraces centre-right parties (like Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in Eire) which have robust pro-entrepreneurial policies, eg low rates of corporation tax. And please spare me the oil argument - it's both a drop in the ocean and finite.
120

,

04/07/2008 10:57:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
121

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 11:01:06
Alot of MPs seem to forget that their sole source of legitimacy is the voter. They forget that and get a load of ideas above their station, like Eric Joyce and Michael Martin.
122

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 04/07/2008 11:03:59
#127. Welcome to the forum. Your views have been well debated on here many many times, and your argument does not stand up to proper scrutiny.

It seems that you have just woken up from a 20 year sleep, as these were the scaremongering negative tactics deployed back then but things have moved on. I will not reference any thing to you as a few minutes on Google will bring up plenty evidence to show you how archaic your propaganda is.
123

LEAL,

04/07/2008 11:19:44
127 uplander
Yes the oil is finite.But it will last for generations if we stop allowing London to steal it,and startusing it more frugally as the Norwegians do.As for subsidy from the South East of England...that lie was rumbled long ago.
124

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 11:24:58
120

Cack she is head and shoulders above anybody the opposition parties confront her with in Parliament
125

,

04/07/2008 11:28:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
126

Rob - Honest Toun,

04/07/2008 11:30:25
A hope aw this cairry on isnae gaun tae stop us auld age pensioners frae gettin oor 25 pence a week rise on oor 80th burthday.

A've said it afore an A'll say it again. A think that MPs' total income includin salary, expenses an the rest shuid aw be cleekit tae the state auld age pension.

MPs are priviledged tae be able tae decide whit thair ain pey is gaun tae be an tae decide whit the auld age pensioners is gaun tae hiv tae live on as weel.

Nae prizes for guessin whit group they hae the maist sympathy for.

BTW hou's ma Musselburgh accent?
127

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 11:30:36
120

In Musselburgh? well lets give up our aspirations to Independence then shall we because an audiance consisting of mostly unionists from Musselburgh supplemented by Labour party activists voiced their party propaganda on question time.
The only animated discussion on the whole program was the issue of knife crime and very little was actually mentioned on the constitution at all.
In fact the whole program looked relatively tame compared to most I have seen elsewhere.
Dare I use the description suppressed?
128

Queen D,

glasgow 04/07/2008 11:31:17
Named and shamed: The MPs who voted to keep their generous expenses


Last updated at 7:52 AM on 04th July 2008

Comments (24) Add to My Stories


More than 30 senior Government figures were among the 146 Labour MPs who voted to keep their generous expenses:

Andy Burnham - Culture; Caroline Flint --Housing; Paul Murphy - Wales; Jacqui Smith - Home Secretary; Shaun Woodward - Northern Ireland.




Cashing in: Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, Culture Secretary Andy Burnham and Housing Minister Caroline Flint all voted not to change their expenses


OTHER MINISTERS AND WHIPS
Nick Brown - Deputy Chief Whip; Alan Campbell - Whip; Angela Eagle - Treasury Minister; Maria Eagle - Ministry of Justice; Beverley Hughes - Children, Schools and Families; Tessa Jowell - Olympics; Ivan Lewis - Health; Tommy McAvoy --Whip; Stephen McCabe - Whip.

Anne McGuire - Department for Work and Pensions; Tony McNulty - Home Office; Gillian Merron - International Development; Mike O'Brien - DWP; James Plaskitt - DWP; Bridget Prentice - Ministry of Justice; Gerry Sutcliffe - Sport; Gareth Thomas - International Development; Derek Twigg - Defence.

Kitty Ussher - Treasury; Claire Ward --Whip; Tom Watson - Cabinet Office; Dave Watts - Whip; Rosie Winterton -Transport; Phil Woolas - Environment; Iain Wright - Communities and Local Government.

The MPs who voted to keep their generous expense accounts were:

Labour
Nick Ainger (Carmarthen West & Pembrokeshire South),
Graham Allen (Nottingham North),
David Anderson (Blaydon),
Janet Anderson (Rossendale & Darwen),
Ian Austin (Dudley North),
Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West),
Gordon Banks (Ochil & Perthshire South),
Kevin Barron (Rother Valley),
Margaret Beckett (Derby South),
Clive Betts (Sheffield Attercliffe),
Liz Blackman (Erewash),
Roberta Blackman-Woods (Durham, City of),
Bob Blizzard (Waveney),
David Borrow (Ribble South (South Ribble)),
Nick Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East & Wal
129

Queen D,

glasgow 04/07/2008 11:32:06
And there are more ,all to be found in the Daily Mail.
130

MisterN,

Scotland 04/07/2008 11:32:54
133

I will email her and find out which pub do I call to give you the answer?
131

Bob M,

Paisley 04/07/2008 11:33:08
#112 - I think you'll find MPs will probably spend their allowance at Argos, but claim for the John Lewis prices....

132

,

04/07/2008 11:40:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
133

Miss H,

04/07/2008 11:52:56
Are MPs living in a dream world?

In a word - yes.

MPs are isolated from reality in a way that other elected representatives are not.

Westminster is the land that time forgot.
134

Sedov,

Scotland 04/07/2008 11:59:36
#141 agreed. MP's should be on the average wage of a skilled worker plus legitimate expenses.
135

Publius,

Girvan 04/07/2008 12:05:51
#142 Sedov

Nearly right. MPs shouldn't be paid at all. They should merely be paid expenses for loss of earnings. If they were unemployed/unemployable before they became an MP they would get jobseeker's allowance. If they were a teacher, they would get teacher's basic pay. MP's who are not from London should also get £100 a day (no more) for each day that Parliament is sitting.
The point is that MPs are supposed to be representatives, not professional politicians. The rest of us now support an army of professional politicians - MPs, MSPs, MEPs, councillors, their families and all their hangers-on. Hardly any of them could earn an honest crust outside politics. See Peter Oborne's 'The Triumph of the Political Class'
136

JG,

Fife 04/07/2008 12:13:28
We are fast reaching the point where we really can't afford all of these "representatives". If this were a private company they would have had more than one "rationalisation" programme, and "reorgansied" their staff long before now.
MPs regularly look across the Atlantic for inspiration in many things. Do you realise if we WERE the "51st state" (and I'm not advocating for one second that we should be) we would qualify for 2 Senators and about 15 Representatives?
137

Miss H,

04/07/2008 12:27:01
1423 That is a slightly dangerous suggestion. If you look at the professional background of many MPs/MSPs there aren't that many of them who were unemployable and a lot of people have taken a salary cut to be an elected member. That obiously suggests that politicians are not actually representative of the population as a whole - but it also means that you might have to pay many of them more rather than less if we follow your approach.
138

jdships,

04/07/2008 12:34:16
132 MisterN,Scotland

Come on take off your SNP tinted specs.
The "real N S " was asked to stand up last night and she did.
A poor poor performance I'm afraid
139

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

04/07/2008 13:24:15
I see that the CO-OP Party's finest The Rt. Hon John McFall MP, has voted to increase his 'wages' by 4.5%.

Has this man no shame?

Mr McFall represents West Dunbartonshire as a CO-OP Party sponsored Labour member of the Westminster Parliament, he is also chair of the very powerful Treasury Select Committee, and a memeber of the Parliamentary Laison Committee, this man also has a column in the local newspapers where he always seems to be extolling the virtues of how Nu Labour/Owld Torie have reduced absolute poverty in his constituency (West Dunbartonshire is one of the most deprived areas in the UK and Scotland) he has voted to keep public sector wages, except his, at the lower than inflation rate the government is enforcing, he has voted to attack disabled people, in fact he has supported the government on everything that they have wanted that affects you the citizen (ID Cards, 42 day detention, the Iraq war, Son of Trident etc.) and voted against them when it has effected him (Transparency in government, his pay rise).

He is 69 out of 645 in the expenses ranking having claimed £151,852 in 2006/7 including over £10,000 in air travel costs and over £88,000 in staffing costs, and all this from the man who supposedly represents one of the most deprived areas in Scotland, with a jobs gap of 5000 (i.e. even if every job in West Dunbartonshire were filled there would still be 5000 people out of work), and the highest unemployment level in Scotland

I say to you Mr McFall, Enough is Enough!!, is it not time you done the honourable thing and resigned!!!

Wake up you good citizens of West Dunbartonshire, and indeed the whole of Scotland, it's time to write to all the Scots MP's of whatever persuasion, and demand that they start to act in the interests of their constituents rather than themselves.
140

an interested party,

04/07/2008 13:40:14
what with the rise in the cost of living they most certainly deserve it after all the do us all proud

no wait i got that wrong

pigs and trough seems more apt
141

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 13:58:13
I note that John Lewis shares were down 8.3% AHEAD OF THE VOTE yeasterday.

Bet they have regained that and a bit more today

Pigs, Trough!

Time for the abbatoir!
142

Guga II,

Rockall 04/07/2008 14:12:25
These greedy, lying, deceiving charlatans have certainly shown up many politicians for what they are. These scum are out to rob the public purse for every halfpenny they can get. And, of course, they are trying to prevent public scrutiny of their thieving into the bargain.

Calling them pigs at the trough is an insult to pigs. They are just plain greedy scum and pond life who care about nobody but themselves.

Every one of them that voted for greed and deception should be booted out at the next general election, regardless of party.

Incidentally, I notice that the Unionist posters are trying to divert attention away from the greed of the mainly New Labour scum by going on about Nicola Sturgeon. I assume from this that they fully support the greedy pond life in their own party.

143

Broughton Resident,

Edinburgh 04/07/2008 14:27:32
It was interesting to note that out cheery Edinburgh MP Nigel Griffiths voted FOR the pay increase. With a salaried partner too, his household can't be short of a bob or two. "Pigs to the trough" definitely.

To comment on the post that mentions politicians taking a cut in salary to become an MP, I'd like to say that for most of the politicians (not all) it's about self promotion, whether it's at national or local level. I agree with buckpool loon too - "it's the tune and the grace notes they're able to play on their expense fiddles that undermine their right to claim to be our representatives".

All of this should be thoroughly and independently audited and the politicians should not have the right to vote on whether it can be done or not, it should just be done. It shows them up for what they are - scared of being found out for the fiddles that have happened and which they want to continue.
144

Lock,

04/07/2008 14:29:09
A prison ship on the Thames parked at Westminster. Problem solved. Cuts down on the taxi journeys too.
145

Miss H,

04/07/2008 14:32:30
148 I don't think they actually are fiddling expenses but that's not the point.

I heard Ian Davidson on the radio this morning saying that the allowance covers all their London home costs – the ‘John Lewis’ amounts are the maximum they can spend on things. He pointed out that if you spent all your money on this John Lewis wedding list type scenario you would have nothing left to pay mortgage, utilities, council tax etc. He also pointed out that the alternative proposal would cost the public purse more than the current scheme.

All well and good - but it doesn’t make any difference. Politicians like Ian are wasting their time trying to argue about these things. Sadly they have to recognise that perception can be more important than reality. There are some fights you can’t win so don’t even try.

146

,

04/07/2008 15:02:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
147

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 15:06:23
Come in No 6 Yer times up!

Bog off

You are just here to stir sh1t up and deflect the thread

So just go into yer wee dark room and keep taking the tablets then, after a suitable metamorphosis, you can emerge having adopted another personna
148

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 04/07/2008 15:13:24
Lets ensure if we cannot beat them we certainly do not join them.

Hollyrood should be accountable for every penny.

Declare the average MP's expenses to the Inland Revenue and you would be locked up for Tax evasion. One rule for them. One rule for those who pay for them.
149

Hickory,

US 04/07/2008 15:35:37
Here piggy, piggy.
150

Miss H,

04/07/2008 15:38:02
158 Clearly MPs claiming expenses for non existent employment by family members is a fiddle. But that doesn't mean that every MP who employs a family member is on the fiddle. Do you see what I mean? The fact that some MPs abuse the system doesn't mean they all do - but unfortunately they are all going to have to carry the can for it.

Again to go back to the interview with Ian Davidson he got quite irate about that. He employs his wife because she was already organising his diary, answering letters etc - she gave up work to work for him and took a salary cut to do it. Now I don't like Ian Davidson, he is a Labour MP and diehard unionist but I also think he's an honest person. But that doesn't matter. It doesn't actually matter if what he says is true, it's about the way it is perceived.

MPs need to get to grips with that and stop expecting things to be fair all the time. Life's not fair, why should they be any exception?
151

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 15:51:13
No:6 is an imposter, a Troll.

Look at the other No6 and see the difference of a colon

And that is from where he speaks his faeces
152

LEAL,

04/07/2008 16:02:00
Guga 2
Correct me if I'm wrong,but the way I read the above article,it seems that 155 voted for the big pay rise.We have the names of the 20 Scots.The 155 were defeated and so dont get the big pay rise,only a more modest pay rise.However parliament voted to keep their huge expense accounts,and to keep them secret.Do we have the names of the Scots who voted to keep their expenses secret?
153

,

04/07/2008 16:06:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
154

James.com,

04/07/2008 16:15:02
" Downing St. was disappointed with the result "....Broon and Bust didn't vote and 30 Labour Ministers did....in favour of keeping the gravy train! Great Leadership!
155

John Cameron,

Broughty Ferry 04/07/2008 16:16:05
What a bunch of tow-rags. How do we try to bring up our children to be honest citizens when our "leaders" are so openly corrupt? The Scots are by far the most over-governed people on the planet with the result that nothing works except the fawcett of slush money for our politicians. This is what it must have been like in Eastern Europe before the Wall came down.
156

Nit-Nat,

04/07/2008 16:27:33
Alex Salmond is hedging his bets by not giving up his Westminster seat, he wants his allowances back when he is inevitably exposed as a charlatan.
157

Cappo Del Monte,

04/07/2008 16:30:25
the lot of them are leeches on society.
they should be made to prove all expenses with receipts as all other honest tax payers must.
politicians, most are crooks but with a different name.
its about time thay were forced into this.
all liebour supporters must recognise this, pigs in troughs, there again most politicians of any party are like that
158

,

04/07/2008 16:51:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
159

brownlie,

04/07/2008 16:59:34
168 Nit

I see the political charlatans seem to be getting exposed on an almost daily basis. Sadly, for you they all seem to be from our glorious unionist cabals.
160

pwd,

Borders 04/07/2008 16:59:45
* 126

34% of the the electorate voted for the three pro UK parties together. They got c67% of the of the actual votes cast, but you knew that didn't you - that whichever way you look at it support for independence is very low.
161

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 17:24:55
Why do John Lewis shares not exist, in yer wee heid or up your colon?

http://www.lse.co.uk/shareprice.asp?shareprice=JLH&share=john_lewis_of_hungerford_plc_ord_0.1p

Follow the yellow brick road
162

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 17:28:06
From Times OnlineJuly 4, 2008

John Lewis department store sales plunge 8.3%
163

,

04/07/2008 17:34:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
164

,

04/07/2008 17:37:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
165

European Scot,

04/07/2008 17:40:46
172 pwd

There is a little problem with looking at the figures of those who voted for New Labour, Tory, and Liberal parties, or as you collectively put it, the Unionist Parties, at the Scottish Elections last year.
The problem being, that this was an Election based upon Party loyalties, not on Country Loyalties.
There were many supporters of an Independent Scotland, within each of those 'Unionist' parties, who also happened to be traditional, Labour, Tory, and Liberal voters.
It wasn't an election about Independence, it was one about Party loyalty.
Politically, things have moved on considerably since then of course.
A Referendum, which will exclusively be about the Independence question, and not a Party political issue, will provide the results that will give you the definitive answer.
Along with the kind of percentages, you may not be quite so willing to quote in the future.
166

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 17:41:38
Did I say shares, must be a sticky keyboard, of course I meant sales.

But I am sure they are up today with all the pigs topping up before this Parliament falls apart and they are collecting their P45s
167

,

04/07/2008 17:47:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
168

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 17:57:24
Did I say John lewis of Hungerford, of course I did not!

It is you who is the fool and anyway I cleared it all with the Parliametary Clerks who said it was all OK as well as the Electoral Commission who told in a konths time it was all OM so I am innocent of all charges.

You are just a Troll and you have been found out

Away with you!
169

jacquesmac,

the Lothian Road 04/07/2008 17:58:49
Keep going around in circles you Numptie!

Bye, off to have a wee swally of a cheekie rose!

Bisous
170

Van (not white) Diesel,

04/07/2008 18:08:06
Article headed:
'Are MPs living in a dream world by voting to keep £24,000 allowance?'
Answer:
No, they are living in their real world, being a private one that they have created just for themselves. Everyone else can take a hike!
171

,

04/07/2008 18:12:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
172

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/07/2008 18:24:05
I though I told you to go away

What is the problem with you, out early from school today for the holidays?

Anyway I am not a number, but you are, a number 6 with a colon
173

ThePeter,

Glasgae 04/07/2008 18:28:12
George Orwell
"All Animals are equal, some are more equal then others"

"All labour party members are of the people, just Labour party members have more then normal people"

Hypocrite socialists
174

ThePeter,

Glasgae 04/07/2008 18:29:09
Actually
All Labour party hacks are hypocrites
All socialists are hypocrites as well

One and the same

Try reality boys and girls
175

,

04/07/2008 18:44:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
176

Himself,

Cambridge 04/07/2008 19:52:55
All MPs should be allocated a council flat in a condemed tower block near Parliament, fitted out by MFI or similar standard with bare essentials for sleep/work. They could all travel together in a bus to work and save fuel & COwhatever,then they need not be paid any expenses. The Tower blocks they voted for need not be pulled down, well not their's anyway.
177

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 04/07/2008 20:54:31
MOST politicians are PUBLIC ENEMY No1 in the eyes of the majority of people and thoroughly deserve this title of infamy but, they are wily enough to realise their infamous style of living is safe enough because it is the overwhelming majority of the public who actually live in a dream world,fantasy,myth and believe in such a thing as fairies, a man on the moon and Heaven and Hell!
178

Ewen Miler,

Amesbury 04/07/2008 21:12:11
MPs - confirmed what I thought: most of them in it to line their own pockets. Very few of themin it for the right reasons. As for Brussels - I dread to think!
179

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 04/07/2008 21:42:17
This programme was what any sensible person could only expect coming from the corrupt publicly funded BBC (Blair Brown Corporation)
It was puposely set-up to overload it with elements who had nothing in common with the Scottish nation and its people's aspirations.
The main aim was to obviously isolate Nicola Sturgeon and pave the way to make her look ridiculous.
In this they mostly failed and how 'Dumbleby' is still employed by the BBC at licence payers expense as a travesty of justice. Every word from the man reeks off Establishment material.
180

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 04/07/2008 22:15:49
Allowance should be pro rata to aloudance. Relevant aloudance, I hasten to say.

Honourable (hhfh) gentlemen and ladies, in order of dominance, quantity of sound, or equal lack of, does not necessarily quality make.
181

Wynn,

CLYDESDALE 04/07/2008 23:23:20
This is addressed to ALL MP.s and is to make sure that none of them can say "No-one I know of complained we''d lost his respect".
I suggest the following for the accomodation of MP.s .
This system was used by the Army for Married Quarters and is in use for Student Accomodation in University Hostels.

Domicile and basic furnishings.
A flat, with living-room/study/ dining area+Bedroom +kitchen and bathroom.
Dining table, desk/computer unit, dining chairsx4, easy chairsx2, bed, wardrobe, Potsx2, fryingpan, kettle. Curtains.
Costs of above averaged over similar accomodation provided by above and Local Authorities.
182

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 00:30:32
There was a time when these inferior beings were public servants - they could not do anything else poor souls.

They have now got a bit of a power rush to the head and the same inferior beings think they are ruling us. They have passed too many ridiculous laws, they have squandered too much in return for too little, they have ignored us for too long considering us their children when they in fact our, our children and children they are not worthy of even public service let alone to rule.

The people, despite labours vote rigging (ooops the voting machines mysteriously went off again Labour party !?) If they play the same card again they will be removed from office not by their false votes but by a a purer direct force - one that actually represents the will of folk rather than stand their corruption again. It is time politicians listened to the people again rather than the people listening to them!

Crime is out of control, immigration is out of control, politicians are out of control, infact most things that used to serve us are now against us. The worm will turn because we're not that dumb and we as a people are far from beaten by the political class that would have us as slaves. May I quote to you a not so old text that captures the essence of what is happening to us today - may you draw your own conclusions but may you rise when the time is right and they are so wrong .....

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Libert
183

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 05/07/2008 00:35:11
Cont .... liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "

Now I simply ask you if the government and thus the lack of political choice that exists today is not worthy of being thrown off and started again .... never has it more mattered that you should make a difference and never has it more mattered that you can make a difference. We are not slaves and should not behave as such moreover our greater conscious should not give in to those who are so weak for the price that is paid is not only paid by us but by our children and our children's children. For once in our lives, just for a fleeting moment let us be strong and rid ourselves of this nuisance and stupidity that would have us in shackles.

By God they have underestimated the will of us common folk .....




184

grannie,

Glasgow 05/07/2008 22:54:24
perhaps it's time we had redundancies to reduce the number of MP's. Even if they all took sick the same day they'd hardly be missed.The country could be run by less than half the number we have now providing they were people who had a passion to make life better for the majority of the British people. Lets think about this and start voting for decent individuals rather than following one political party. Its time we made this crowd afraid of the power of the people
185

grannie,

Glasgow 05/07/2008 23:04:33
None of them know the real meaning of stress. No stuggle to pay mortgage,groceries,no stress finding childminders (nannies on expenses) expenses against groceries try living on state pension( below poverty level).If you want more, means tested. Only one pensioner not means tested. She lives in the palace.
186

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 06/07/2008 13:39:46
Well spoken Grannie!

Not only are we in the dis-unitd UK taken for a ride by 'LEGALISED CROOKS'; ordinary people world wide are as well.
WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN?
187

Bravetart,

06/07/2008 22:36:11
John Lewis list? It'll be fecking Argos if I'm paying for it.

Actually I'm not paying for it now. The credit has crunched in this household. I could *really* do with £24k expenses - which was £10k more than I was earning, no perks at all.

I think Green Shirt Man and the other one in the bright coloured shirt were the Labour plants. It is fun to spot them in the QT audience. I thought Nicola Sturgeon looked a bit baffled at the response of some of the audience. Doesn't she know about the game?

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.