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740 miles of Scottish coast is crumbling into sea



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Published Date: 09 April 2008
SCOTLAND'S seas and coastline are facing a new series of threats because of rapid climate change, The Scotsman can reveal.
The first report into the state of the nation's seas highlights the fact that 12 per cent of the country's coastline is already subject to serious erosion, and that is set to get worse.

The report, Scotland's Seas – Towards Understanding Their Sta
te, was ordered by Richard Lochhead, the Rural Affairs Secretary, to provide an analysis of what needs to be done to protect Scotland's marine environment and to help inform forthcoming marine legislation.

The authors warn that climate change will bring stormier seas, higher sea levels and bigger waves. They claim that 740 miles of Scottish coastline has already suffered serious erosion problems, increasing the risk of more flooding and damage to the natural habitat of wildlife.

The report also states that sea temperatures are now rising at between 0.2 and 0.4 per cent per decade compared to 0.07 per cent 100 years ago.

There is also evidence that water acidity levels are increasing in some areas, which adversely affects wildlife such as bottlenose dolphins. But the report admits there are gaps in the knowledge on bottlenose dolphins, which are believed to be in decline in the Moray Firth and along the east coast.

Populations of common seals and Arctic terns are being dramatically reduced, although some species like gannets have seen an increase in numbers.

The report, which was drawn up by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH), the Fisheries Research Council (FRC) and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA), once again underlines the problem of the over-fishing of cod in Scottish waters and says stocks are in a dangerous state.

Worries are also raised about some of the life forms at the bottom of the food chain – zooplankton – which are the diet for many seabirds.

The authors said that 34 special areas of conservation have been set up in Scottish seas and are showing "favourable signs" of improvement but that it may take "decades or even centuries for full recovery in some cases."

Richard Lochhead, cabinet secretary for rural affairs and the environment, said: "Climate change is a truly global issue and can only be tackled if we work together.

"Our seas play a vital role in regulating our climate and are a lifeline for the communities that live around them. Our winters are getting wetter and warmer, sea levels are rising and coastal erosion is increasing. Our marine wildlife is now having to cope with these as well as other pressures, and is beginning to suffer as a result. Our marine industries also have to cope with changes. These are happening now and we must take action."

However, it was not all bad news, as Scotland's seas are much cleaner than they were in 2000. The report noted that 94 per cent of Scottish waters are now "clean and safe" and there has been a 72 per cent reduction in unsatisfactory or seriously polluted waters to just 90.5km of coastline in total.

Chemical contamination levels in samples taken from estuaries are also down, although 30 different types of metal, including cadmium, mercury, lead, copper and zinc, are present.

Problems remain with litter on Scottish beaches – 90 per cent of the rubbish contains plastic and 80 per cent comes from land-based sources, usually through fly-tipping or being casually discarded.

The report says more needs to be done to manage chemical discharges from towns and farms.

It also highlights the importance of the seas to the Scottish economy. Marine-based industries, including fishing but excluding oil and gas, are worth £2.2 billion in Scotland and employ around 50,000 people.

Robin Cook, the chief executive of the Fisheries Research Services (FRS), said: "Scotland's seas are rich, diverse and productive.

"This report forms an important step in ensuring the sound stewardship of our marine environment and the protection of the many thousands jobs that are dependent on our seas."

And SEPA chief executive Campbell Gemmell said: "There is a vast amount of work already being carried out. This is the first step to a more comprehensive and detailed report on the state of the marine environment, due in 2010."

SNH chief executive Ian Jardine added: "As a maritime nation, we have a long history of studying and exploiting our marine natural resources. In the 21st century, our challenge is to use our marine environment sustainably. Most of the population of Scotland has an interest in marine issues, even if that's to enjoy a day out on a clean beach.

"But we know there are challenges ahead in agreeing how best to use these resources, and protect them in the face of climate change and threats from new, invasive species.

"To ensure the future long-term health of Scottish seas, it is essential to maintain a balance between sustainable exploitation of marine resources and the protection of wildlife and natural features. This important report will help us all to co-ordinate action for our seas."

WARMER, HIGHER, STORMIER

THE most obvious example of climate change is the rate at which the seas are warming up. This is now at 0.2 to 0.4 per cent per decade compared to 0.07 per cent a century ago.

About 12 per cent of the coastline is at serious risk of erosion, which is increasing because of rising sea levels.

In Aberdeen the sea is rising at a rate of 0.7mm a year, but at some places, such as Lerwick, the level has decreased slightly since 1957.

The report also suggests that the seas will get stormier, with higher waves creating surges that could create further coastal erosion.

This could damage habitats and cause problems for areas such as Moray which are prone to flooding.

ECONOMICALLY VITAL INDUSTRIES

MARINE agriculture is worth £2.2 billion to the Scottish economy and employs around 50,000 people, according to the report.

The biggest employer is fish processing, accounting for around 14,000 people. It was worth £481 million to the economy in 2004-5.

Building and repairing ships and boats, once Scotland's biggest industry, was worth £312.9 million and employed 7,216 people.

Sea fishing had 2,684 people employed and made £149.5 million. Fish farming covered 2,468 people and had an income of £121.7 million.

Oil and gas brought in £20 billion in 2005, one-fifth of the total Scottish gross domestic product. It employs around 145,000 people.

VULNERABLE WILDLIFE POPULATIONS

UNCERTAINTY surrounds the future of bottlenose dolphins. The authors believe that numbers have declined. This fits in with recent concerns of the Green Party about the impact of oil exploration in the Moray Firth.

The number of common seals has almost halved since the mid-1990s, but the grey seal population has shot up by around 25,000.

Many bird populations have also fallen, although actual numbers are not given. The proportion of breeding Arctic terns are down by 95 per cent since the mid-1980s; Arctic skuas were down 63 per cent and little terns 54 per cent. This could be due to a 70 per cent drop in zooplankton since the mid-1960s, the main food source for many seabirds.

METAL CONTAMINATION

SINCE 2000, there has been a 72 per cent improvement in the waters off the Scottish coast, with stretches totalling 90.5km still unsatisfactory or seriously polluted. It means that 94 per cent of the coastal waters are now clean and safe.

The report also notes that contamination levels in estuaries are down, although the authors say that more work needs to be done and note that over 30 metals, including copper and zinc, are still present in samples taken from the seabed. It says nitrogen levels in urban and agricultural discharges need to be better managed.

The report also highlights litter as a major problem, with 80 per cent of it coming from land-based sources.

PROTECTING OUR MARINE LIFE

THE Scotsman is campaigning to protect our precious marine life. We want:

• A network of marine reserves and protected areas to be created to safeguard sites properly

• A system of marine planning, effectively zoning areas for appropriate use, to safeguard important fishing grounds from offshore wind farms and other projects

• A single organisation to administer this system

• Scotland to be given control of conservation to the 200-mile boundary with international waters

It is hoped that many of these issues will be dealt in a Scottish marine bill, which has been promised by the Scottish Government. A draft UK Marine Bill was published in Westminster last week.





The full article contains 1454 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 April 2008 10:01 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Resolutions,

09/04/2008 00:23:32
Well Aberdeen is a very short distance from a place called Menie which I know is on the coast.

And the sea level is rising!

Hope a certain inquiry takes note of that point.

But this is much much bigger than that and we need to take a very wide view on this. I think it is called 'joined -up thinking' as this affects everyone in Scotland - not just the coastal communities.
2

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 09/04/2008 01:20:39
Climate change my backside, the sea always causes erosion. This is nothing but a bunch of useless quango's bowing to their political masters.
No doubt it will be used as an excuse to tax us more.
3

DunCraig,

Brisbane 09/04/2008 04:08:59
3 & 4, I'm with you! I don't remember anybody bleating about global warming & climate change in 1968 when I have vivid memories of Easter being cold an buses grinding to halt in Edinburgh because of the snow. Easter in 1968 was in April, not much different from now I suppose!
As for the coastline disappearing quicker, I'm kinda at a loss how, in one breath, our correspondent can say that sea levels are rising around Aberdeen but are lower around Lerwick. How can this be if water is supposed to find it's own level? I s Lerwick risng?
4

Guga II,

Rockall 09/04/2008 04:28:26
According to Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH), one of the report's authors, the Scottish coastline is 16,491 Km, or 10,247 miles. If 740 miles are subject to erosion, that is 7.2% of the coastline, not 12% as quoted in this article.

In any event, as pointed out by #3 nabodican, the sea always causes erosion. It always has, and it always will.

As for the sea level rising, where do they get that from? What's their proof? I have see no sign of rising sea levels around the Scottish coast. Moreover, if the sea level is, as claimed, rising in Aberdeen, should it not also be rising in Lerwick, instead of it falling there? Anyway, Scotland is still rising out of the sea, albeit very slowly, so how can the sea levels be rising unless parts of Scotland have suddenly started sinking?

This seems like yet another junk science report, like all of them on so-called global warming, to try and put the frighteners on us, and to aid the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party in raising more taxes from an already badly overtaxed population.

There may well be problems with pollution going into the sea, but that is something that could easily have been managed before now when Labour held sway for 50 years in Scotland. If there is still a problem with pollution, the government should be able to resolve it fairly quickly, with the aid of the ever increasing amount of money they steal from us.

Real science is based on research, and facts. Junk science, like this report, is based on limited and faulty research, and speculation; along with an attempt to get access to even more government grants.
5

,

09/04/2008 06:09:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 09/04/2008 07:22:29
Check the erosion on the beach front at Montrose. In 1944 the sand was level with the road on the esplanade and the lifeboat shelter was completely covered. After the storm of 1953 the concrete walkways and steps were trashed. Now there are only flights of steps down to the sand which are into the water at High Tide. How much of this was caused by dredging the shipping channel and closing off the South Esk outlet at Rossie Island (Island no more) is open to debate.
A similar effect was in Hervey Bay Queensland since 1976 after they altered the tidal flow from the Mary River by building a marina at Urangan.
Both done without much research I suggest.
However the dunes along the Montrose beach are in serious jeopardy and the 5th oldest golf course in the world also at risk. I have tried to interest the Montrose people in a possible solution so it will be interesting to see if it happens.
7

Unimpressed one,

09/04/2008 08:12:08
"The first report into the state of the nation's seas highlights the fact that 12 per cent of the country's coastline is already subject to serious erosion."

That is the only factual statement in the whole report (possibly even this is pi*sh according to guga II)the rest is speculation, modeling and wishful thinking. In other words a pile of steaming....Wonder how much public money ther tripe took to produce?
8

scorchio,

West of the Pecos 09/04/2008 08:13:05
I blame Vladimir Romanov!
He gets shafted for just about everything else in this paper.
9

eric,

09/04/2008 08:24:17
Cleaner !Cellafield still dump waste and it flows around Scotland!
10

Joe,

Ramsay Gardens 09/04/2008 08:34:46
Tartan Man Alex Salmond will save Scotland's eroding coastline. Except the bits bordering the Forth estuary...
11

Harbinger,

in an octopuss's garden 09/04/2008 08:36:06
What rapid climate change would that be? The problem with reports like these are that they are produced by quangos specifically set up to promote the global warming mind-set. They trawl through the literature and look at IPCC reports and come up with nonsense like this.


The reality is somewhat different:
GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 34, L01602, doi:10.1029/2006GL028492,2007 published 4 January 2007.

"On the decadal rates of sea level change during the twentieth century" S. J. Holgate, Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory, Liverpool, UK (members of the UK govt. marine climate change impact partnership (MCCIP))

Nine long and nearly continuous sea level records were chosen from around the world to explore rates of change in sea level for 1904–2003. These records were found to capture the variability found in a larger number of stations over the last half century studied previously. Extending the sea level record back over the entire century suggests that the high variability in the rates of sea level change observed over the last 20 years were not particularly unusual.

The rate of sea level change was found to be larger in the early part of last century (2.03 ± 0.35 mm/yr 1904–1953), in comparison with the latter part (1.45 ± 0.34 mm/yr 1954–2003). The highest decadal rate of rise occurred in the decade centred on 1980 (5.31 mm/yr) with the lowest rate of rise occurring in the decade centred on 1964. Over the entire century the mean rate of change was 1.74 ± 0.16 mm/yr.

Catastrophic or what?
12

thinking,

Scotland 09/04/2008 08:41:14
Global warming? No that's just an excuse for governments to raise revenue and keep us in our places!!
Pollution? Yes. We do need to clean up our act. Perhaps we should take a look at 'uncivilised' nations before we 'civilised' them. i.e. the majority of American Indians used to use what they needed to live but looked after what was around them. For example they killed buffalo to eat and used the hide etc for clothing while the 'civilised' white man killed for the hide to make money and left the food to rot.
13

jtdx,

09/04/2008 08:52:02
#6
Firstly the article says "12% is at risk" and 740 miles has "already suffered". "at risk" is not the same as "has suffered".

14

paul o,

Wodonga 09/04/2008 09:29:59
I agree with #3. Erosion is a natural & on-going process. It never ceases and any one connecting it with 'climate change' (which is also a natural & on-going process)is missing the whole point of human dominance of the planet. THE ABILITY TO ADJUST to changed circumstances. If your multi-billion $ seafront investment is likely to disappear into the sea at some stage, get used to it and don't shift the blame to something as nefarious as 'climate change'. It's going to happen.
15

Scottie,

South Africa 09/04/2008 09:31:04
So many of you are so clever, maybe you can tell us:

What number of flights there were per day (average) worldwide 10 years ago?
What number of daily flights are there worldwide today?

How many vehicles were being used every day 20 years ago?
How many vehicles are being used every day nowadays?

How many people were there on Earth 30 years ago?
How many people are there on Earth today?

Thank you!
16

Friend of Lewis,

09/04/2008 09:49:32
AGW scare-mongering theories are being touted by those who have jumped on the Al Gore band wagon, hoping to make financial gains from wind farms, other 'green technologies' and carbon taxes - 'Saving the planet' cannot be further from the truth.
17

antifa,

09/04/2008 10:00:25
"Global warming? No that's just an excuse for governments to raise revenue."

I'm sure you've given this a lot of thought so can I ask: why would governments want to do this?

Raising tax makes governments less popular - that is pretty clear. In fact, the modest tax rises of the last 11 years (and can anybody point to serious tax increases - the 10p rate doesn't count because that didn't exist prior to 1997) are probably the reason Brown will lose the next election.

It would also appear that governments have generally tried to ignore the problem of global warming over the years, wouldn't you say? That's changed recently because it's started having an impact on economies - note the increase in the price of rice, which the UN is very concerned about.

Is the UN part of the conspiracy too, by the way?

And the vast bulk of scientific literature does support the global warming thesis - you would admit that I'm sure, you're not blinkered, stupid or insane after all.

Ministers are not scientists: would it really be sensible for them to ignore the evidence and instead act on the basis of views like yours?


18

Ken Ring,

Auckland 09/04/2008 10:13:40
What a nonsense story. Higher sealevels deposit more sand on a beach, hence reversing erosion. The only way cliffs can crumble is wave action. If the sea rises a little in height, it attacks but the attack is not vigorous. There is more sand deposited on the beach, higher, and on top of previous land. If the sea goes down it is eating away at the old equilibrium level. There is a much larger redistribution of sand as sand is taken away by the small tides. Often one can see a previous beach, perhaps 20-30 cm above a current beach. It is more common that erosion is caused by a falling sea level than a rising one. Constant wave action battering a cliff-face is something else and should not be confused with sea-levels.
ref: http://www.predictweather.co.nz/assets/articles/article_resources.php?id=55
19

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 10:22:20
I am fed up to the back teeth of hearing about completely non-related things being put forward as evidence of "climate change".

This in particular is COMPLETE AND UTTER RUBBISH. If you believe it then you have serious mental problems and should be sectioned.

Errosion of the coast line has been happening ever since their was a coast. It will continue to happen as time goes on. It is not linear and can speed up and slow down based upon MANY factors, some of which only become apparent following detailed analysis.

This really has become King Canute politics in that it appears that they are now literally trying to tell the tide not to come in. If you believe all this then there is really no hope for you.
20

It's me!,

09/04/2008 10:26:47
That flood was Noah's fault for chopping down trees to make the ark!

Man is not more powerful than nature no matter what quangoes say. There are no straight lines in the natural world and nothing remains the same. The latter only seems to be that way in the extremely short time that man has been able to measure events. As the minister will say at your funeral, "We are here for a brief moment only". The earth has been shaped over millions of years.
21

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 10:28:50
Well, there we have it!

25 comments and to a man (or woman) they all more or less agree that this story is rubbish.

Face it. the global warming myth/climate change has now lost credibility and will soon be dead.

I wonder what they will think of to replace it? It will obviously be something that they can tax us for.
22

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 10:55:15
Argh!
Since when do you measure warming in %?
% of what? K? C? F?
23

Upandunder,

09/04/2008 11:02:09
Sea levels are not rising - the UK's eastern seaboard is sinking, and the western seaboard is rising. This is due to the fact the UK land mass is tilting.

If anyone wants proof, go to Harlech Castle in Wales, which was built in the 1200s with a watergate, ie: direct access to sea. 800 years on and the castle is now half a mile inland. Because the west is rising.

ALL major erosion in the UK is on the eastern seaboard. Eastern England shares the very same "rising" North Sea with the opposite coastland of NE France, Belgium and Holland. Take a quick look at the Belgian resorts etc and there is NO erosion. Why not? Because the Continental mass is not submerging like eastern Britain is. And because the sea level is not rising, there is no erosion to report on the Belgian coast.

Believe me, if the sea was rising like we say it is, Ostend, Zeebrugge, Dunkirk etc would have been submerged years ago.

Yes, there is some form of global warming, but I guess it has more to do with us moving further in time from the end of the Ice Age than anything else.
24

Vigilant Watcher,

Bo'ness 09/04/2008 11:07:25
No 18 Scottie

All I can say is, 'And, what point are you making'? To answer you question; probably more in each case!

And, again, what point are you trying to make?
25

Check the facts,

09/04/2008 11:11:43
The actual report, which is considerably more detailed than this article, can be downloaded from:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2008/04/03093608/0
26

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 11:38:43
'The report also states that sea temperatures are now rising at between 0.2 and 0.4 per cent per decade compared to 0.07 per cent 100 years ago. '

This is a mistake; 'per cent' should be replaced by 'degrees Celsius'
27

Venachar,

09/04/2008 11:39:57
Thank you Upandunder!

The British Isles is tilting. The Thames barrier was thought of designed and built before Global Warming was even thought of because the southern half of the UK was sinking and the top half rising.

Unless you spend extorsionate amounts of money as in Japan where most tidal fluctuations are minimal it is not possible to protect or change things against nature.

Our genious Gordon Brown believes he can change it through taxation, another King Canute!
28

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 09/04/2008 12:04:13
I feel this erosion of the Scottish seacoast is indicative of the erosion of Scottish morals and decency and no good can come of it.

There will be fire and brimstone next to make Scotland atone for its many, many sins. SO there!
29

Venachar,

09/04/2008 12:06:27
Please do as #31 Check the facts says, have a look.

If I had produced this tosh for my higher geography and my oceanography exams I would have been laughed at.

Plenty of nice pictures for the simple folks, half of it in a language that not very many people understand(nothing against Gaelic by the way).

A stellar example of quango waste!
30

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 12:10:44
'Sea levels around the UK are now about 10cm higher than they were in 1900. Four sites in England show average sea level increases ranging from 2.3 to 4.6mm per year since 1900. Scientists predict that sea levels will rise by between 2 and 9mm per year (and could rise as much as 86cm in southern England by the 2080s) as a result of climate change.'

- Environment Agency

Britain lies at the edge of the continental shelf. Its coastline geology shows us that sea level in the past was about 100 to 150m below its present level. After the last ice age, the sea rose and flooded low-lying land, forming the North Sea and English Channel. The rate of sea level rise then slowed down and has remained constant in the last several thousand years.

31

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 12:21:57
Long term changes in sea level measured at the coast (e.g. by tide gauges) are a consequence of 'real' changes in the level of the ocean (e.g. due to climate change), to which must be added changes in the level of the land.

Most knowledge of the pattern of vertical land movements in the UK comes from geological data. This reveals uplift in Scotland versus submergence in SE England. This 'tilting' of the UK is largely a consequence of a geological process caled Glacial Isostatic Adjustment (GIA).

It results in sea level rising less rapidly in Scotland than in southern England

- Proudman Oceanographic Lab
32

Bob Corfield,

Australia 09/04/2008 13:19:03
Dave from Barra!
While I understand that Lewisian Gneiss is about 3 billion years old I don't think you should be taking this report lightly! Please keep an eye on those spectacular coastal landscapes and especially those world class beaches on Lewis and Harris for me and keep us informed of any unusually persistent high tides. You can't be too careful you know. Just gotta get back to Northton etc before that big inundation.
33

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 13:27:25
Still some doubting Thomas's above I see.

Think about this:

The winter of 2006 – 2007 was the UK's second-hottest ever.

Autumn 2006 was the hottest on record.

July 2006 was Britain's hottest ever month.

Hottest ever 12-month period: 31 April 2006 to 1 May 2007.

Previous hottest 12 month period: 31 March 1997 to 1 April 1998.
34

voltaire's janny,

09/04/2008 13:29:46
It was an enlightenment Scot, James Hutton who first observed that the entire planet was engaged in a timeless cycle of erosion, sedimentation, vulcanism upheaval & repeat. Later scientists discovered mantle crust and tectonics.

The real fact is 100% of all coasts everywhere are crumbling into the sea.

Deal with it.

In our history since the last ice age, Scotland has rebounded from the weight, raising beaches to giddy heights in places, while the south of england is settling into the sea. These are variations in the relentless cycle that will see all mountains laid low.

The mendacious edifice of human-caused climate change will also crumble; the sea and atmosphere will cool again and the eventual ice age will be blamed by a new generation of hand wavers on the excesses of mankind.

I hope I live to see the hootsmon article blaming the spread of the ice sheet on tapping of geothermal sources for power.

Fortunately the real cause of climate change (sun spots) are quite likely to reverse the trend in the 40 years I could still be around.

As winter skiing in Scotland was all the rage in my youth, maybe I'll get piste in my dotage.


35

George.,

09/04/2008 14:04:45
43. voltaire's janny
You mentioned sun spots.
I thought you might be interested in the following.

Solar cycle minimum at the earliest in second half of 2008?
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/04/07/solar-cycle-minimum-at-the-earliest-in-second-half-of-2008/
36

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 14:23:31
Voltaires janny- the hootsmon might be stupid enough to blame ice sheet spreading on geothermal energy, but I wonder if you are?
37

Broddr,

09/04/2008 14:26:23
I would have more respect and be more concerned about these scary reports on global warming and climate change if it didn't invariably end in a new tax or more responsibility on the hardworking general public.

It seems to me that all environmental concerns are singly the responsibility of the general public according to our governers. Big business and the government themselves have no blame!

We pay all these green taxes but what is actually being done? Nothing.

I do believe we all should do our best to safeguard the planets ecosystems etc but I don't agree that the way of doing this is to tax the public.

Instead of punishing those who ruin the environment, why not reward those who do their best to save it?

I will tell you why. This whole climate change crap is just a way of raising taxes and nothing more.

When scientists first started talking about the environmental problems we are causing 30+ years ago, what did the government do? Nothing.

In the past two years, some clever sod has latched on to the fact that you can levy taxes on environmental concerns and suddenly all the fat gits in suits are bothered about it. Hmmm.

It is brilliant when you think about it. You can tax almost anything on a green basis and you don't have to provide any kind of value for money for the taxpayer unlike income tax and council tax etc.

I do care about the planet but I am so incensed about how this subject is being corrupted that I will now go out of my way to heighten my carbon footprint and generally screw the place up.

Don't tell anyone but I did something naughty just this week. My new brown rubbish bin which is supposed to be for garden waste was not emptied because "It had some soil in it."

So I upended it on the grass verge.

This illustrates my point.

The grey rubbish bins are now emptied once a fortnight instead of once a week and we have been provided with blue and brown bins for paper and garden waste respectively.

Other streets in my
38

rancid brown,

Global warming propaganda 09/04/2008 14:26:46
Chinese Paramilitary Thugs Policed London Torch Relay
Hiring foreign paramilitary thug cops to police the streets of our cities is not only flagrantly illegal, it is a telltale sign that we too are living in an oppressive police state.

This is a damning indictment of the attitude the British Labour Party, self-proclaimed "liberals," holds toward the notion of freedom of speech and the right to peaceably assemble in the UK.
39

Broddr,

09/04/2008 14:27:40
Hmm seems there is a limit on how much you can say
40

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 09/04/2008 14:33:05
Take a stroll/trip to the beach and see that the sea is not rising at all. It's exactly as it always has been. Oh wait its deeper now oh wait it's even shallower now. God help us how can we stem the tide of this great disaster which doesn't really exist. It's the biggest con in history...
41

Mary Ann Fraser, of Lovat, Sawant,

09/04/2008 14:55:24
When are you going to wake up to the problem? When your tap water starts tasting like salt? In some parts of New England along shoreline towns our tap water is seriously high in sodium. We have noticable shore erosion along the nothern coast of Massachusetts and people's back yards are sinking into the sea in places like Plymouth.
42

Gie'sabrekk, Jimmy,

Florida 09/04/2008 15:09:38
How on earth can the sea level be rising at Aberdeen while dropping at Lerwick and other places? Every schoolboy who's done basic Physics knows that that's impossible! So, either the land mass at Aberdeen is lowering or it's rising at Lerwick and these other un-named places.

Anyone starting to feel a bit queasy?






43

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 15:10:44
I am so pleased to see so many posts made by people who realise the Government is lying to the on climate change (or the key reasons for it). It is just the few mobilising the fears of the many in order to extract greater tax revenue so they can squander more of our cash on their white elephant schemes.

44 .. How does one explain that temperatures on Mars and Venus have been rising steadily (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html) ... is it official that little green men are petrolheads too ?

Yes, lets deal with pollution but don't try and sell a pig's ear as a purse and tell me you need lots of new taxes and a raft of new legislation that erodes yet more freedoms in order to get a few large companies to clean up their act.
44

voltaire's janny,

09/04/2008 15:11:42
Thanx George..

There are two kinds of science, physics and stamp collecting.

Sun spot cycles and their prediction are not yet the former, which makes determining future climate from them more like auto-fellation than philately.

However the Al Gore porky that CO2 levels accompany temperature in an associative or causal way has been admitted as a falsehood. A correlation with sun spot activity has also been advanced for C02 levels and seems more likely than the transient farts of man.

I don't know, but the past (three cooling decades followed by four warming to this point) is an observation not anywhere close to a determinstic predictor any more than a stock price is.

I am old enough to remember woe-is-me articles in new scientist proclaiming the next ice age (onset 100 cold years rather than 1000 as previously thought requisite).

To all of this we should respond with conservation, and reduce re-use re-cycle cultures. Most definitely should we not respond with knee-jerk policies and clumsy tax penalties on those un-empowered to effect change.

I will take my tomatoes loose, please, in a paper bag.

Clean burn coal technology exists but China is commissioning a new power station a month that has more effect on CO2 than grounding all G.B. transport would have.

At least they extinguished that effing propane torch a few times on their way to widespread ridicule.
45

G,

dundee 09/04/2008 15:28:52
Does any of this land include any part of Fife?

Good I'm off to burn more fuel....

Lets cut the crap on global warming....it is weather instability that we have to worry about not whether the temp is rising or dropping...
46

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 15:38:52
Voldemort #52- temperature changes on other planets are not related to warming on earth. That article references the 2005 data on Mars, which at the time was pointed out as being due to albedo changes because of dust storms. or by orbital wobbles.

Note that the russian bloke is claiming earth and mars are warming as a result of long term increases in solar output, despite also saying the solar output started dropping in the 90's. Unfortunately for him, no correlation has been dmeonstrated between solar output and earths temperature over the past 30 years.
47

Rob7,

England 09/04/2008 16:03:03
As long as you don't all come down here I am not too bothered
48

I should be studying,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 16:28:59
Hello GugaII - at #6 you said: "Moreover, if the sea level is, as claimed, rising in Aberdeen, should it not also be rising in Lerwick, instead of it falling there? Anyway, Scotland is still rising out of the sea, albeit very slowly, so how can the sea levels be rising unless parts of Scotland have suddenly started sinking?"

What you've touched on is called Isostatic Rebound - or Post-Glacial Rebound. Since the last ice age 10,000 years ago Scotland has been rising since the weight of the glaciers disappeared. I'm sure many SNP supporters will be delighted to hear that the south coast of England is sinking. However, the reason Lerwick will also be affected (as will Orkney and the Outer Hebrides) is because the rebound is centred roughly around Glasgow - the further away from Glasgow the lower the rate of rebound. The rate of isostatic rebound is also slowing down generally, and additionally, the rate of rebound at Lerwick is not enough to compensate for predicted sea-level rise. So it is said.

Hope this makes sense! :)

49

,

09/04/2008 16:37:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

justboy,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 16:49:46
When volcanoes explode they produce more gases that decades worth of human inhabitation does. So the result of human progress is the equivalent to a few extra volcanoes, in sure the Earth can cope!
51

geriatric swampi,

aberdeen 09/04/2008 17:05:56
#33CLARRY Grow up!Everbody who has a different opinion
from yourself is either a moron or some other derogatory name. You may not agree with someone but at least respect their right to have that opinion.You never know they might even be the one's who are right or is that something that someone as opinionated as yourself finds hard to contemplate
52

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 17:49:44
Changes in solar activity can affect global temperatures, but over the last 50 years, increased greenhouse gas concentrations have had a much greater effect than changes in the Sun's energy.

53

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 17:51:18
#63:

Fred,

Where do you get this rubbish from? Average global temperatures are going DOWN, not up.
54

Shetland Dave,

edinburgh 09/04/2008 17:54:37
#58 Should be plenty of room you lot are all up here.
55

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 18:00:21
61.

The contribution of volcanoes to atmospheric carbon is less than 10% of that produced by man.
56

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 18:02:08
64. petrol brains:

Temperatures are continuing to rise

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/myths/2.html
57

Resolutions,

09/04/2008 19:02:25
#62 Geriatic Swampi
Thank you for your support- which saved me saying it!

Incidentally, I am well aware of the location of Balmedie and its dunes. I am also pretty despondant about the 'know-it-alls' spouting absolute rubbish about environmental matters.

The climate is always in a state of change and it appears to be having a bigger collywobbly than normal. The sea is encroaching on the land and the water tables are rising. Actually nature is far better at protecting itself than any works of Man. I understand that the Dutch are flooding selected areas to protect even more of the country, but not sure where. In Thames area, salt marshes are being allowed to re-develop to protect inland areas by breaching selected sea defences. Yes the rise in sea level is due to tilting after the last Ice Age(isostatic recovery).

But this collywobble could just as easily lead to a new Ice Age. With the melting of the glaciers(how to our 'experts' explain that?) the extra water is affecting the salinity of the oceans, which affects the ocean currents - one of which is our central heating - which could have the course altered. This also ties up with the jetstreams, winds etc all of which we have NO CONTROL over.
But we can try to reduce our contribution to the gas causing the increase in ice melting in the hope that the process, wherever it may lead, can be slowed down!
58

Paloma negra,

09/04/2008 19:06:54
#7 ciderman
Salmond
... as King Kanute
... good analogy but only from the point of view of being the fool who thinks he has extra-ordinary powers ... roll on Election Day when this charlatan is out on his ear.
59

Paloma negra,

09/04/2008 19:23:24
You can visualise Salmond trying to command the sea to retreat though huh??
60

McX,

09/04/2008 20:43:17
Is this some ploy to decrease the Scottish sea boundary even more?
61

steve green,

preston, lancashire. 09/04/2008 21:26:00
scare story, scare story, scare story.
research grant, research grant, research grant.
stay in job, stay in job, stay in job.
bull...t,bull...t,bull...t.
62

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 09/04/2008 22:06:57
I think global climate change gets corralled into all sorts of things it shouldn't, sea level rise is too complex. Global averages using satilites can detect changes, however, as others have said, the interplay of geology, coastal geomorphology and tectonics and even the sea temperature, make predicting what it means anywhere very difficult to predict. I sense a 'model' has been used here rather than observation. the article should have said more about their assumptions.

The earth climate wobbles and gets hotter every few 10's of 1000s of years. the argument here is that human intervention is exacebating this natural process. What climate science needs is more geology and history to test their models and check that their interpretations of the evidence are correct


63

geriatric swampi,

aberdeen 09/04/2008 22:18:03
Good try Clarry!but I'm too long in the tooth to rise
to the bait!!!!
64

yoric,

09/04/2008 22:37:07
Scotlands coasts are eroding into the sea to wash up, in England.
65

Resolutions,

09/04/2008 22:47:12
#77 How do you explain the rapid disappearance of coastal cliffs and communities then along the eastern seaboad of England?

Clarry - try to find something of substance to say or shut up.
66

indune1,

Canada 09/04/2008 23:25:30

50 - Mary - I didn't know there was a place in the sea called Plymouth.
67

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 09:07:01
Robbierunciman #75- have you investigated climate change? You do know that they have looked at past climate change and compared what has happened along with modern models and exactly what is going on now?

68

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 09:13:27
resolutions #68-
No, there is no sign at all that a new ice age is due, unless the sun throws a fit and drops its output in a way which has not been seen before.
Glacier melting is entirely to be expected given the warming. Ocean salinity changes are having some local effects, but it does not look like they will lead to global cooling.

The gulf stream etc does not look like it will cut off, merely slow slightly over the next few decades, judging by the latest measurements. This will be compensated for by the warming.

69

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 10/04/2008 11:00:18
When thousands of climate experts get together for decades and predict a whole range of symptoms (coastal erosion being among the least worrying) that are starting to manifest themselves at an accelerated rate we should take notice.
When these effects are shown to be anthropogenically driven, with no other rational explanation, it is time to ignore those in denial and take action.
Thankfully we may have the ability to alleviate some of the worst effects for future generations if we act radically, and we do not trigger large scale discontinuities.
Check out The Royal Scociety for debunking of sceptic myths, Stern Review makes interesting reading in this financial climate.
70

Scottie,

South Africa 11/04/2008 09:23:06
#30, so you think that millions more people and many more cars and planes etc are NOT affecting the planet and its resources etc? In your dreams laddie, in your dreams!!

 

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