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Justice in dock: only one in nine judges is a woman

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Published Date: 18 April 2008
THE body in charge of selecting judges and sheriffs is to carry out a major investigation aimed at ending the virtual monopoly that white men have on the bench.
The Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland is to examine the "barriers" it believes are preventing women and people from ethnic minorities from progressing into senior positions.

Equality campaigners fear the lack of women and non-white sheriffs and judges is damaging public confidence in the legal system. They argue that the predominance of white men in the judiciary is off-putting to some victims, for example women who are raped.

Sir Neil MacIntosh, the chairman of the board, insists women who apply to become sheriffs or judges have as much chance as men. But he told The Scotsman too few were putting themselves forward for the most senior positions.

"When women do apply, they are successful," he said. "But there is a gap between the number of potential women candidates and the number who actually come forward."

He believed "a range of factors" was probably preventing women and non-white people from applying to become a sheriff or judge.

He said: "Is it the hours? Is it perhaps that female candidates are still working their way into the more senior ranks – the 'trickle-down' effect? Is it because of the nature of the jobs, as the bulk of appointments are all-Scotland? In other words, you've got to be willing and prepared to travel across the whole of Scotland when called upon to do so. Does that mean that women with family responsibilities still are disadvantaged by that?

"We need to find out whether there are barriers preventing them from coming forward. The process should be equally accessible to anyone.

"I suspect there are a whole range of factors. The important thing is that we address them."

Sir Neil, who retires in June after six years as chairman of the board, which was set up in 2002, went on: "Some people suggest it's just a matter of time, but I'm not convinced. That assumes the trickle-down effect is the only factor. I don't believe that. I think it's an absolute duty (to promote greater diversity]."

But Sir Neil rejected far more radical moves to improve diversity. "We don't operate quotas," he insisted.

Nicky Kandirikiria, executive director of the equality campaign group Engender, is among those who believe the composition of the judiciary is damaging the justice system.

"You have to consider whether having such a male-dominated judiciary is contributing to the fact we have one of the lowest conviction rates for rape in Western Europe," she said. "We know many women who suffer violence don't go to court because it's so male-dominated. More women judges would help."

Under the Judiciary and Courts (Scotland) Bill, the appointments board will have to give people posts "solely on merit". However, there are some in the legal profession who believe a candidate's suitability for the job should be based partly on whether they will help create a more diverse judiciary.

But one senior figure said such action could result in the wrong judges being appointed.

Lord McCluskey, a retired judge, said: "

The nature of justice does not vary in its character depending on whether the person administering it is male, female, black or white.

"If I go into hospital for brain surgery, I want the very best person for the job. I don't want to be told 'it's your turn to be operated on by someone brought in to create diversity for Bangladeshi immigrants'."

Figures show the judiciary's lack of balance in terms of gender and ethnicity. Only four of the 35 serving judges – or 11 per cent – are women. None are from ethnic minorities. Of the 140 full-time sheriffs, 26 – 19 per cent – are female, and only one, Rajni Swanney, who was appointed nine years ago, is from an ethnic minority. She moved to Scotland from India at the age of two and was brought up in Dundee.

While 36 per cent of the legal profession are female, less than a quarter of applications to be sheriffs or judges are from women.

Osama Saeed, the chairman of the Scottish-Islamic Foundation, said:

" The dispensing of justice requires juries to be of your peers, and the judiciary similarly has to be representative of society.

It has an impact in the trust in the system."

The appointments board has set up a working party to examine the composition of Scotland's legal profession. Led by Professor Alan Paterson, from Strathclyde University, it will include representatives from the Law Society of Scotland and the Faculty of Advocates.

The working party plans to survey about 12,000 solicitors, advocates and sheriffs, seeking their attitudes towards becoming a judge or sheriff. Women, people from ethnic minorities and other minority groups will be "tracked" to find out if, and how, their careers are progressing. Steps will then be taken to overcome any hurdles.

Ros Micklem, of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said the inquiry should go beyond gender and ethnicity.

"We would expect them to ensure they look at all the potential barriers to participation. How many of our judges or sheriffs are disabled? Why is there such a small percentage of women or people from ethnic minorities? Does the environment in which they work encourage them to be honest about sexual orientation, or faith and belief?"


Bill Aitken, MSP, the Scottish Tories' justice spokesman, said judicial appointments should be made on merit, but he would welcome more women and people from ethnic minorities.



'People should have the opportunity to apply if they want and not feel there is little point'

I WOULD love the opportunity to apply to become a judge. As a career move, it would be a fantastic prospect.

But, as I see it, there are too many deterrents for me, both as a woman and someone from an ethnic minority group.

Applying to become a "floating" sheriff – who is required to work across Scotland – is a "no-no". I have two very small children and a husband who has a very successful and high-profile career. The responsibility to look after the children would fall to me at the end of the day.

This project by the appointments board is a good start, but it will take some years to work through, because of the old mentality of how things are done. There will have to be some genuine incentives in the appointments process and job descriptions to encourage not just people like me, but also those from other minority groups to feel confident about applying to become a judge.

People should be given the opportunity to apply if they want and not feel there is little point because of who they are. If I was white I'd think that too, that just being a mum would mean I wouldn't fit in. But being non-white makes me even further away from what I would imagine the panel are looking for.

However, times are changing – and the quicker the better. The old boy network is still there, but I think it's on the way out.

It might be thought that because I am non-white I won't be able to deal with the type of people coming before me in the dock. But I think the judiciary will appear more in touch with the public if the traditional white, male profile is seen in equal numbers with members of minority groups. It's important that the judiciary visibly reflects the society that it serves. I don't actually think it's the case that judges are out of touch. But the perception is that they don't understand the everyday, "streetwise" life. This is bound to have an impact on confidence in the system.

• Farah Adams is a Blairgowrie-based solicitor who is convener of the Law Society of Scotland's equality and diversity committee.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 April 2008 9:50 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Legal Issues
 
1

Fanling,

Hong Kong 18/04/2008 00:43:39
Do I smell the scent of a gravy train, loaded with affirmative action-fuelled, equality-industry nobodies who have made careers out of knowing what is best for the rest? As long as it their agenda that is followed of course.
2

Redbeard Rum,

18/04/2008 00:48:37
#1,

Yes you do.

How many white judges are there in Hong Kong?

I know of only one.
3

Jeff, Surrey,

18/04/2008 01:06:58
It would only be a plus for white males who find themselves before a female or non-white Judge/Magistrate.

I've noticed when I am in Court in business that female Judges are generally far more unforgiving of alleged female perpetrators and are far less likely to fall for the tears and wee girly act.

Likewise the ethnic Judges are generally harsher on ethnic perpetrators.

White male Judges are generally tough on white males but ever so gentle on females or ethnic males before them.



4

Fanling,

Hong Kong 18/04/2008 01:25:00
#2
Unsure of the point of your question, which in any case I can't answer with authority. Guessing from memory of past SCMP court reports, I would say more than one, but that is to stray from the topic. The article centres on the Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland, not the equivalent body in Hong Kong.
5

Redbeard Rum,

18/04/2008 01:35:47
Fanling,

You introduced Hong Kong to the debate by posting your domicile.
6

truthsleuth,

18/04/2008 01:38:43
When I watch the TV news it is most noticeable that the proportion of none indigenous UK reporters is not representative of the population at large
Or this just my imagination.

We need to be sure the laws of this country are not interpreted using a shariah law mindset.
7

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill Road.....soon 18/04/2008 01:44:13
The right person for the job, they should also be prepared to swear that they will uphold the law of the land if they havn't already
8

Fanling,

Hong Kong 18/04/2008 01:51:13
#5 RedbeardRum
"You introduced Hong Kong to the debate by posting your domicile."

Wrong. I did not introduce Hong Kong to the debate. You did. A poster's domicile is not part of the equation. The Comment section (for debate) is. I was addressing the topic purely and simply in the Comment box. Domicile is irrelevant.

#6 truthslueth
It's not your imagination. You are right in your observation.

9

Guga II,

Rockall 18/04/2008 02:20:33
"Equality campaigners fear the lack of women and non-white sheriffs and judges is damaging public confidence in the legal system."

If they are wanting to damage public confidence in the judiciary, then some form of under the counter affirmative action is the way to go.

These posts should be based on merit, and merit alone. We do not want token women or token blacks just because some so-called equality campaigners think we must have it.
10

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 18/04/2008 04:04:20

Hey all U smart dudes,

There is no such beast as a 100% fair and impartial Judge if its a human.

So the way to get close to fairness and impartiality, is to hire persons who are the most likely to be fair and impartial .
They must have the qualifications and trial experience.

They must possess character and will power to make decisions based on all the known facts and apply the law accordingly.

There is better and a fail-safe way that could be operational inside 5 years.
It would be 100% without bias,
It would be 100% impartial
It would make correct decision 100% of the time
based on all known facts.
Every analysis , conclusion and judgment it made , would be executed in real-time as the case evolved.

It would scan and read every letter of every word of every person involved in the case. analyze and make judgment, in real-time
It would complete facial and eye iris scan every one involved in the case in real time . Analyze and make judgment in real-time
It would research and test , analyze and compare the DNA of all persons involved including the dead victim if such was the case, and make judgment.all in real-time.

It would analyze the voice and speech pattern of all persons involved in the case and conclude with a judgment. in real-time

This would be the world's first Computer Judge.

Its operating hardware would be based on molecular transmit-receive technology . A billion times faster than any of todays transistor dependent computers.

Its system software, and application software, would be programmed to understand and respond to the human thinking process of the mind.

The big Block would be the Judges and the Lawyers, they would sue from here to timbukthree or (timbuktu).

So long Dudes

GC
11

donald,

glasgow 18/04/2008 05:45:20
The honkie judges in Hong Kong are in the Wong country.
12

,

18/04/2008 07:11:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

Thomas J,

Dunfermline 18/04/2008 07:22:53
When in 2001 I researched the all-male Speculative Society of Edinburgh, I found that two-thirds of our Law Lords came from this privileged group of public schoolboys who all attended Edinburgh University where they spent 3-years of winter Wednesday nights in gaining the “extraordinary privileges” of the Spec.

This group were almost certainly all White Anglo Saxon Protestants but the bi-centenary vanity publication that gave me much of my information on this matter did not specify this.

The fact of the matter is that a lassie from Lumphinans who has gained a law degree at a university such as Dundee would not statistically stand a snowball's chance in hell of making the benches of the High Court.

Unless there is some magic additive in the drinking water at the Old College buildings at the University of Edinburgh that produces amazingly good arbiters our judges have for centuries been selected by the old boy network.
Hardly meritocracy in action is it?
14

agatha,

18/04/2008 07:29:35
Maybe I'm reading a different article but isn't the woman ruling herself out because she's a Mum? Few men would rule themselves out because they are Dads. That's the difference.
15

911 was an inside job,

18/04/2008 07:36:39
Oh here we go. We're going to see loads more unqualified and totally unsuitable women given these positions just because they're female.

"In a later conversation, Rockefeller asked Russo what he thought women's liberation was about. Russo's response that he thought it was about the right to work and receive equal pay as men, just as they had won the right to vote, caused Rockefeller to laughingly retort, "You're an idiot! Let me tell you what that was about, we the Rockefeller's funded that, we funded women's lib, we're the one's who got all of the newspapers and television - the Rockefeller Foundation."



Rockefeller told Russo of two primary reasons why the elite bankrolled women's lib, one because before women's lib the bankers couldn't tax half the population and two because it allowed them to get children in school at an earlier age, enabling them to be indoctrinated into accepting the state as the primary family, breaking up the traditional family model."

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm
16

carrottop,

Dumfries 18/04/2008 07:50:40
If ability and willingness to do the job are no longer the key criteria for job seekers then I think we are about to loose even our upper third world status.
Seen all this equals whether you want to be or not rubbish in Newham, East London where second rate, only in it for the money stooges were given key posts. When you think about it they are so much easier to control and manipulate which is exactly what the small group of key individuals that ran the burgh (English spelling) wanted.
Yet another Labour legacy that we are all going to suffer for.
17

Marcus Fenix,

TheValley 18/04/2008 07:52:39
Is it maybe just the case that white males have been the best candidates for the job?

Will be now see an influx of female and minority judges to satisfy statistics and quotas rather than being the best for the job?

Would you rather get a job because the company had to employ X% of your creed rather not because you were good at the job?

Nicky Kandirikiria, I'd like you to prove that 'such a male-dominated judiciary is contributing to the fact we have one of the lowest conviction rates for rape in Western Europe.'

And don't label me a woman hater, racist or a chauvinist because I'm not. I'm merely wanting to stimulate discussion.
18

It's me!,

18/04/2008 08:13:27
The best person for the job irrespective of gender or colour. For all vacancies. Keep it simple.
19

Michael N,

In the kitchen 18/04/2008 08:21:29
Just another cry out for positive discrimination. As previously mentioned, positions are filled by merit and of course people actually need to apply for it in the first place. What about making it easier for me to apply for a position as a judge. I have no background in the practise of law whatsoever, but I have noticed that along with Navaho Indians, Aborigine's and fire breathing antelopes, there are no people of my demographic representive in the high court. perhaps it should be made easier for everyone to try out. What a load of underpants !!
20

Scottie,

South Africa 18/04/2008 08:27:53
Surely if Farah's husband is so successful, and she would seem to be so herself, they could have good help for when she happened to have to go away - and after all Scotland's not that big a country anyway.
21

Scottie,

South Africa 18/04/2008 08:29:51
Casey Purvis, I think the trouble is that you wouldn't recognise a rational female if you saw one, and it's not that there aren't any!
22

oder,

Scotland 18/04/2008 08:38:33
The Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland is to examine the "barriers" it believes are preventing women and people from ethnic minorities from progressing into senior positions".

this is very similar to Black Economic Empowerment in South Africa! were anyone who is black giving preferential treatment while applying for a job, (racial discrimination reversed?) while fairness should always be the rule when applicants apply for such positions, the term to "remove barriers" real or imagined is nothing more than an excuse by the PC brigade, the present judges had to get over these same barriers which shows the are above the ordinary,
the importing of policies base on colour/sex or ethnic origin are plain for all to see! South Africa and Zimbabwe is that were we would want to go!
maybe we should change Scotland to Scotethnicland seems more appropriate.
23

Royster,

18/04/2008 08:50:52
#3. Interesting psychological point.
24

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 18/04/2008 08:56:46
Genuine equality takes time to work through. As more women have joined the police, more women have made their way into the higher ranks. I believe that law graduates are now 50/50 men/women. We'll soon see a higher percentage of female sheriffs and judges. Ethnic minorities make up only 2% of the Scots population. Even if the positive discrimination enthusiasts insist on a proportional representation, rather than talent, that's hardly a lot. Mind you, the thought of Aamer Anwer on the bench is kind of scary.
25

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 09:10:16
I dont think that this is about 'giving' people jobs just to fill quotas...this is about establishing why white males dominate this particular area and making it more accessable to other people. After all, we would not like to think that the 'old boy's network' was 'giving' jobs to white males because they feel safer with a candidate that they are more comfortable with?
26

Hugh,

Edinburgh 18/04/2008 09:15:00
A white, geriatric male, whilst I recently stopped at Waverley station for ten seconds to drop off a friend,
I was questioned and searched under the prevention of terrorism act by the transport police.

It has been suggested that I was selected because they are obliged to keep up ethnic quotas.
27

millport curler,

Millport 18/04/2008 09:17:28
Bring back Lord McCluskey
28

Toast,

18/04/2008 09:35:47
Surely all public appointments should reflect the composition of the population
29

Hmm ...,

18/04/2008 09:54:59
... it seems straightforward to me. The Chairman of the Judicial Appointments Board for Scotland said that "When women do apply, they are successful. But there is a gap between the number of potential women candidates and the number who actually come forward."

So the limitation is in the number of applicants. If the deal is that new Sheriffs do the travelling around Scotland, which WOULD broaden their experience, I can understand why relatively young married women would rule themselves out simply because they have to give their family their attention so are not able to be away from home routinely.

In any case, a very low proportion of male solicitors can become Sheriffs too, so it is not as if any lawyer should expect to progress routinely into that role.

Farah Adams said "There will have to be some genuine incentives in the appointments process and job descriptions to encourage not just people like me, but also those from other minority groups to feel confident about applying to become a judge."

So does she think that women should be paid more to do the job than men or does she think that we should simply bend over backwards to sponsor minority group applicants in a role that has more than enough existing applicants who are willing to take on the commitment?

The blunt truth seems to be that she thinks we should "feather bed" people like her - give her the opportunity to have the job without having to commit to the more arduous aspects of actually doing that work.

In the UK as a whole, ethnic minorities account for about 1% of the population; in Scotland it is lower. We don't have that many judges so, assuming that they had the best qualifications for the job, how many of them, proportionately, should be from an ethnic minority? And would they actually do the best job?

I also don't take Farah's point about being "streetwise". Could she really be saying that people from a criminal background would best understand street crime? I don't
30

Hmm ...,

18/04/2008 10:07:17
I also don't take Farah's point about being "streetwise". Could she really be saying that people from a criminal background would best understand street crime? I don't think so, somehow! I also don't think that she really believes that being brought up in a backstreet is necessarily the best qualification for a judge!
31

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 10:08:55
34...Why would someone from an ethnic minority not 'actually do the best job'?..and why? if they would not then who would do the best job and why?
32

Hmm ...,

18/04/2008 10:09:33
... Toast (33) said "Surely all public appointments should reflect the composition of the population".

Only if they are best able to do the job, Toast!
33

Hmm ...,

18/04/2008 10:13:05
... Horrible Canker (36) said "Why would someone from an ethnic minority not 'actually do the best job'?..and why? if they would not then who would do the best job and why?"

That's exactly the point that I was trying to make, Canker. What does ethnicity have to do with doing the best job? And it is the person beast able to do the job that should be in it.

Thanks for letting me make the point more clearly.
34

Thomas J,

Dunfermline 18/04/2008 10:50:39
Like most people I was brought up to believe we in Scotland had the best: Shipbuilding, football team, and justic system, in the world.

I worked on the Clyde and other shipyards before they all closed.

I have watched the faliure of the Scottish National Football team till it has become too painful.

I have observed the Scottish Justice System at first hand and from afar in the Lockerbie Trial and Appeal.

Can you spot the successful one? Is there one? Was I fed a diet of Scotch Myths?

35

Teofilio Cubillas,

18/04/2008 11:01:49
#14 spot on. The Judiciary in this country is not only a male, white clique but an upper middle class clique to boot, perpetuated by the ridiculous 'devilling' system whereby those wishing to become an advocate must work unpaid for six months, thereby keeping the advocacy (and, by extention, the judiciary)off limits to those without private means of support. The sooner this 'profession' is dragged out of the 19th century, the better.
36

calum,

18/04/2008 11:11:51
#40 Not picking a fight her but interestingly, according to official figures, around 1 in 11 accused is female so according to the headline, women are, in fact, over-represented. Just goes to show that you can make statistics say what you want them to.
It has to best the best for the job regardless of racial origin, gender, or whatever. Tokenism leads to acrimony and resentment ....
37

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 18/04/2008 11:47:10
#41
Well the equality campaigners got their way last year when they forced an overhaul of the selection process of the 'tap on the shoulder' with the laudable aim of "transparency and fairness" (two favourite buzz words of the PC brigade). The result, fewer women were apponited through the latter system than the former.

When will women see that there is no male-conspiracy to keep women out of top jobs, the only thing that makes these jobs 'untouchable' is individuals attitudes. One can't impose quotas because people believe it is a white, male job and therefore don't apply.
The best way to look at it would be the percentage of female applicants who are given the job, you can bet yourself that women gain a 'disproportionately' high number.
38

Boggle fey the Bog,

18/04/2008 12:03:07
19 Marcus Fenix,TheValley

Aye Marcus that one threw me as well, but maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, or have made incorrect assumptions.

When a charge is brought, evidence is presented against the defendant, evidence is presented for the defendant, then the JURY retire, to consider the evidence, they can also ask for 'points of law' to be clarified, when they are deliberating.

They, then decide, 'beyond a shadow of doubt', if the defendant is guilty, if they decide this is the case, THEY, THE JURY, have CONVICTED the defendant, NOT the judge.

But, then again, maybe I have got it all wrong :-(
39

Brother Walfrid,

Paradise 18/04/2008 12:42:19
It used to be the case that solicitors with an eye on the shrieval bench would instruct the lord advocate or any of his chums as advocates for High Court / Court of Session work ...a few dripping roasts never did anyone's prospects of a judicial appointment any harm at all.

It's only in the last 7 years that the power of appointing sheriffs has been taken away from the lord advocate, but one gets the impression that the current system has inherited a lot of the old schmoozing.

Judicial appointment in Scotland is all about who you know.
40

Graham Barnes,

Gravesend, Kent 18/04/2008 12:52:44
#10 got it right. It should be based on merit, nothing else. In the same way, other posts should be filled, whether they are high court judges, MPs, policemen, or whatever. There are too many busybodies poking their noses in, too many PC campaigners interfering with the way this country is run. It should be a case of 'if someone is better qualified on the principle of what is required to do the job, they should be selected.'
41

Logie Almond,

18/04/2008 13:14:34
Let's look at the potential ethnic minority candidates - loudmouthed agitator Aamer Anwar or Raj Jandoo who claimed to have a bomb on the plane to Stornoway. Lord McCluskey is absolutely right - it should be the best person for the job.
42

,

18/04/2008 13:36:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
43

Wolfman,

18/04/2008 14:06:35
Farah Adams is typical of the 'you owe me' brigade. She says she can't apply fundamentally because her very successful hubby won't do his share of child minding (presumably she had some say as to whether they had a family or not) and can't be bothered to apply because of her perception of discrimination. If you dont apply then you won't be considered. There are thousands of unsuccessful applicants daily, but they dont call 'foul' they just get on with it. Right person right job.
44

Jayseama2008,

18/04/2008 16:00:06
It used to be the case that solicitors with an eye on the shrieval bench would instruct the lord advocate or any of his chums as advocates for High Court / Court of Session work ....some mention a news on a site.S U G A R M O M M A M A T C H.COM . it caters to successful and rich women seeking handsome and charming men. there are a lot of charming men joining in the site to find their real love.
45

Soph,

18/04/2008 16:26:08
You know I really dont care if a judge is male,female or something inbetween, black, white,yellow or green with pink polka dots... I even could careless if they have piercings from every orifice and tattoos over every inch of their bodys, the only thing that matter is that they know their job.

Lord McCluskey is dead on it should be the best person for the job in this and every other case/job.

Eliminate the ridiculous "quotas" from all jobs and maybe many offices would become more efficient.
46

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 18/04/2008 16:41:51
THis is a RE-RUN
Hey all U smart dudes,

There is no such beast as a 100% fair and impartial Judge if its a human.

So the way to get close to fairness and impartiality, is to hire persons who are the most likely to be fair and impartial .
They must have the qualifications and trial experience.

They must possess character and will power to make decisions based on all the known facts and apply the law accordingly.

There is better and a fail-safe way that could be operational inside 5 years.
It would be 100% without bias,
It would be 100% impartial
It would make correct decision 100% of the time
based on all known facts.
Every analysis , conclusion and judgment it made , would be executed in real-time as the case evolved.

It would scan and read every letter of every word of every person involved in the case. analyze and make judgment, in real-time
It would complete facial and eye iris scan every one involved in the case in real time . Analyze and make judgment in real-time
It would research and test , analyze and compare the DNA of all persons involved including the dead victim if such was the case, and make judgment.all in real-time.

It would analyze the voice and speech pattern of all persons involved in the case and conclude with a judgment. in real-time

This would be the world's first Computer Judge.

Its operating hardware would be based on molecular transmit-receive technology . A billion times faster than any of todays transistor dependent computers.

Its system software, and application software, would be programmed to understand and respond to the human thinking process of the mind.

The big Block would be the Judges and the Lawyers, they would sue from here to timbukthree or (timbuktu).

So long Dudes
GC
47

lily green,

usa 18/04/2008 17:45:22
i just want to add one question here..is it wrong for a rich woman to have a sugar baby?? it's an absolutely extramarital relationship, but more and more services come out on Internet focusing on this kind of relationship, such as S u g a r m o m m a M e e t . c o m . how do you think of such a thing?
48

John Blackley,

Florida 18/04/2008 18:04:42
'quotas' - a lovely example of an indicator (say, the percentage of female judges in Scotland's judiciary) being used to force change.

Looking at the number of anything in the total of anything is a useful way to see a first indication that something might be wrong in a process. It is not final proof and not, by itself, evidence enough to warrant a forced change to the process.

Simply because there are fewer female judges in the Scottish than there are females in the entire Scottish population is not, by itself, an indicator that anything is wrong with the process of appointing judges.
49

BK,

Cyberspace 18/04/2008 19:10:17
Perhaps the thought of a pre-menstrual or menopausal judge is a deterrent, even if she is n no longer allowed to don the black cap! Anyway, till the masons start admitting women (maisonettes?)it's a hopeless case!
50

Anthony,

Glasgow 18/04/2008 19:38:42
Once they start playing games with our independent judiciary, we're all in real trouble. The reason women and ethnic minorities are underepresented is down to a whole multitude of factors - not all of them discriminatory. Single variable 'positive discrimination' is counter-productive unfair and causes huge resentment (rightly so). Worse, it is mega-discriminative against those from socially less well off backgrounds.

Here's how it goes in a couple of sentences folks. If a profession or area of business has a disproportionately low number of ethnic minority people to indigenous people, that equals discrimination. If however, it's the other way around, well that's just cultural isn't it? Underlying assumption? Ethnic minorities have a culture worth valuing, indigenous people don't. And, indigenous people are more inclined to be racist than ethnic minority people.

Both assumptions are wrong, racist and deeply offensive. We need to start biting back at the social engineers behind this nonsense and identify the individual politicians supporting them.
51

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/04/2008 00:29:20
Get real. Do you demand a female judge if you are female and so on?

Do you demand a judge who has sons when you are getting divorced? Have you ever tried to find one of them?
52

donmclean,

East Kilbride 22/04/2008 00:15:11
I'm sure that, if they're unable to follow a career
in the judiciary, they'll be welcomed into Politics with open arms.

But, looking at some of the legislation passed in recent years, they'd be better off staying where they are,trying to interpret the mass of unenforceable, undemocratic, drivel that has been passed by, the EU, Westminster and unfortunately our own Scottish Executive.

Positive discrimination is just that, discrimination !

 

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