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Published Date: 19 May 2008
IT BEGAN just over a week ago at a discussion in a poor township about crime. By yesterday, it had become a black-on-black ethnic-cleansing frenzy that engulfed central Johannesburg, taking more than a dozen lives and leaving hundreds injured, thousands homeless and many raped.
The assaults by poor black South Africans on poor, terrified refugees, most of them Zimbabwean, is a crisis that has been waiting to happen for months and seems likely to escalate.

Reports yesterday said the attacks had spread to Cape Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth and Pretoria.

Some three million Zimbabweans have fled to South Africa from the political and economic terror waged by president Robert Mugabe. They have been joined by an estimated one to two million economic migrants from Mozambique and Malawi. In a country with 40 per cent unemployment, ordinary black South Africans have accused the foreigners of stealing their jobs, houses and women. And they have been growing increasingly angry with their own head of state, President Thabo Mbeki, accusing him of being more concerned with appeasing Mr Mugabe than recognising the scale of the problem caused by the flood of Zimbabweans into South Africa.

Eight days ago, in Alexandra, a poor township in the shadow of Johannesburg's business district and the richest square mile of earth in Africa, Jacob Ntuli, 67, a community leader and former security guard, called a meeting of residents to discuss the rape of four women and a girl.

Somehow, what began as a discussion about crime ended in people seething with anger about foreigners. They decided it was time to act, and soon, with cries of "Let's go and kill foreigners", a mob armed with guns, steel bars and whips was descending on non-South African homes.

The first to die was Sipho Madondo, a 41-year-old South African who refused the mob's demand that he join the planned killing spree. He was shot dead in front of his wife, Pretty.

Soon afterwards the first Zimbabwean died. Lungile Mtweni, 31, had just arrived jobless from his own country and was due to begin work the next day as a gardener for a white South African in the hope of providing for his wife and two children. He had borrowed the equivalent of 65p from a neighbour so he could travel to his job and was walking home when he was overwhelmed by the mob. After hearing his accent, they beat and stoned him to death, before moving on to loot and burn the homes of other foreigners.

Hundreds of foreigners fled Alexandra as they were attacked and their homes set alight. Some deadly genie had been let out of the bottle. Copycat attacks began in other townships and settlements – Tembisa, Katlehong, Reiger Park, Thokoza, Jeppestown, parts of the giant township of Soweto, names familiar from the violence that marked the 1989-1994 transition from apartheid to democracy.

Yesterday at least seven foreigners were burned or hacked to death in Johannesburg and mobs besieged the Central Methodist Church, which Bishop Paul Verryn has turned into a shelter for hundreds of Zimbabwean exiles. With violence erupting in so many places, police were struggling to maintain control.

The victims of the violence are dishevelled and dirty, sleeping in their thousands, huddled together in police compounds, the car parks of hospitals where their loved ones lie wounded, in churches and on waste ground.

One Zimbabwean said he didn't know what to do – return to unbearable poverty in his homeland or stay in South Africa, where it was beginning to look like he faced certain death.

Poor blacks pay the price for Mbeki's dithering over Zimbabwe

Fred Bridgland reports on the refugee crisis that is pitting black against black in South Africa's townships

I HOPE my gardener, George, has survived Johannesburg's pogroms unscathed. George is a Malawian, but I confess I don't know enough about him because he is actually employed and paid by my landlady. He is precisely the kind of person being targeted by black South African mobs, who accuse migrants from Zimbabwe, in particular, and from Malawi and Mozambique, of taking their jobs because they are willing to accept lower wages.

George and his like are also accused of taking scarce housing and, most seriously, the South Africans' women.

All these things are at least partly true, and it would be easy to blame the locals for wild bigotry and inhumanity. I cannot. Poor South Africans have been almost superhumanly tolerant while their president, Thabo Mbeki, dithered for eight years over the disaster in Zimbabwe.

The impoverished migrants fleeing hell back home move into already overcrowded townships and squatter camps. Now poor black people are making scapegoats of other poor, but foreign, black people.

Mr Mbeki cannot escape the storm clouds that have gathered over him, but he seems oblivious to the calamity that the Zimbabwean catastrophe is inflicting on the poorest of his fellow South Africans.

Dosso Ndeessomin, an Ivorian who works for the Co-ordinating Body of Refugee Communities, warned: "It starts off as xenophobia, and when they're finished dealing with the foreigners they turn to tribalism… that will be much, much worse than anything we are seeing now."

The full article contains 877 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 May 2008 11:26 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

American,

19/05/2008 01:19:46
Reminds me actual footage I've seen of people being hacked to death in rwanda during their troubled days in the 90's. Sad and troubled times for these people.
2

overshot,

perth 19/05/2008 02:41:35
This is where the World Cup is to be held!
3

celtic4,

USA 19/05/2008 03:36:39
Maybe not!
4

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 19/05/2008 06:40:02
Talk about chickens coming home to roost...... The South African Government's policy of allowing Zimbabweans to come into the country virtually without restriction is the root cause of this problem.

BUT, not to worry, our action man president has "set up a panel" to look into the problem. That should fix it!!!!!!
5

Catina,

Johannesburg 19/05/2008 06:40:45
#1 American.. thats exactly what I thought when I saw the video footage of whats going on.
6

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 19/05/2008 06:48:13
Thabo Mbeki must take full responsibility for this.

He could easily have "pulled the plug" on the Mugabe regime.
7

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 19/05/2008 07:05:32
It is time to turn this anger where i9t belongs at the Mugabe regime. South Africa could easily remove him and bring democracy back to Zimbabwe. It is time Mbeki recognised his duty in this area. Europe & North America should not be expected to be the only policemen preventing genocide by governments actions or inactions.
8

Catina,

Johannesburg 19/05/2008 07:11:37
I just saw the front page of our main newspaper here and there is a picture of a man literally burning to death. I am sick to my stomach. Thabo... a panel is not going to help. Its too late. You cannot blame the black/white thing this time. We have now joined the rest of Africa, we are exactly the same as Rwanda, Kenya and all the others where violence is the order of the day
9

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 19/05/2008 07:20:57
Sorry , Nelson ; it's all gone horribly wrong , hasn't it? Call me a coward , but right now I wouldn't visit South Africa for all the tea in China. It's a crying shame because it was a country of such great promise after the horror of Apartheid.
10

Media 1,

cape town 19/05/2008 07:48:15
I dont know why suddenly the world is shocked at the news of the unfolding xenophobic attacks in South Africa. If you are serious with yourself you will note that throughout your entire life you have been engulfed with images of terror in Africa. You have seen maschetti weilding mobs attacking other people, you have heard about the genocide in Rwanda, you know what happened in Somalia, you know about Idi Amin, you know about Ethiopia, you know what happended in Kenya, you know what happened in Nigeria, it still does. You know all about the wars in Angola and Mozambique. You are aware that Malawi's leader is a dictator and that he is one of many on the continent. You know all about Mugabe and you know that South Africa is only the wealthiest nation in Africa because it was the last nation to become a republic.
So to now look on in horror and disbelief is nothing more than naive. This is Africa people, this is how it works, the wheels always come off, you know that! Or you should by now its been happening for 60 years all over the continent.
11

,

19/05/2008 07:49:31
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12

Unimpressed one,

19/05/2008 08:36:09
#9, "We have now joined the rest of Africa, we are exactly the same as Rwanda, Kenya and all the others where violence is the order of the day."

You have joined the fold of African nations incapable of governing themselves. Not one African country can govern itself and before this is slated as being racist, may I point out that you cannot cobble together a region of tribes and call it a country then insist they adopt western style of democracy. We is doomed to fail.
13

Unimpressed one,

19/05/2008 08:37:12
"We" = "It", of course.
14

Subodai,

China 19/05/2008 09:08:08
This is Africa.
15

Catina,

Johannesburg 19/05/2008 09:08:32
#13. I agree.
And they wonder why all the skilled people are leaving the country. When I see this kind of thing happening, I am just about ready to book my one way ticket out.
16

Catina,

Johannesburg 19/05/2008 09:10:40
The picture I was referring to on our front page...
www.thestar.co.za
17

Nikostratos,

19/05/2008 09:12:56
#6El Sabio

"Thabo Mbeki must take full responsibility for this"

I agree why he stood by whilst the people of Zimbabwe were being brutalised by Mugabe murderous regime is beyond belief. And now south Africa can reap the benefits of Mbeki lack of morality.
18

,

19/05/2008 09:19:28
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19

Clive Hamblin,

19/05/2008 09:52:52
In the fifties, when I was a boy, you used to hear the expression 'The black man's worst enemy is the black man.' It appears that not much has changed.
20

scottish person,

paisley 19/05/2008 10:01:33
#12 A strange person.
21

Biker,

Ayr 19/05/2008 10:02:21
Thabo M'beki has issued a statement in the past, along with the Pan African Congress that he supports Mugabe and his regime. Time to think again ?
22

Dougie, Edinburgh,

19/05/2008 10:04:17
Before the end of apartheid, white South Africans warned that white rule was necessary to keep protect their own lives and keep South Africa functioning. They were villified as evil and racist by the rest of the Western world.

If South Africa becomes an anarchic failed state, as it is far on the path to doing, millions of people will die. All those who campaigned against apartheid, including many of those in our current government will share responsibility. They should be reminded of their own contribution to the destruction of a Western country.
23

,

19/05/2008 10:34:48
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24

Subodai,

China 19/05/2008 10:43:29
#26 This finish before soccer match
25

Kilted Hulk,

Lacey NW/USA 19/05/2008 10:46:38
Spot on #25, Dougie. Apartheid was evil and ugly and needed to be cleaned up but to give over the whole continent to a culture that cant get along with anyone beyond their own village is a waste. What good is the United Nations, where are they with their beautiful blue helmets. Apartheid was ugly but innocents weren't killed in mass, feelings were hurt but far less were killed. Nobody wants to talk about it but to stop the killing you need some kind of outside rule, strong rule.
26

busbyfh,

19/05/2008 10:48:28
If Mugabe was no longer on the face of this earth quite a chunk of this problem would disappear.
Over to you , worm of a SA president.
27

Catina,

Johannesburg 19/05/2008 11:11:34
Yes Mugabe has some role to play in this. But a root cause is this culture of entitlement that permeates South African society. Truth of the matter is that most Malawians and Zimbabweans work harder and are more trustworthy than our own people. Thus.. they get the jobs, but now are getting beaten, raped and killed because the majority feel they are "entitled" to the job because of apartheid. Slowly, we are all starting to realise that "Madiba Magic" has only carried us so far and is starting to fade, exposing the ugly truth that we, like most other African countries hang on a very fragile balance between order and civil war. A balance so fragile that it wont take much for the latter to become a reality.
28

Iain's,

Barcelona 19/05/2008 11:26:39
Funny old world.

Enoch Powell foretold this would happen in his infamous 'Rivers of Blood' speech. ( The dirty rat never used the words, but who cares). I don't think he ever expected this in Africa.

Hispanic Americans are also complaining loudly about illegal immigrants. They say that illegals are exploited by unscrupulous employers, often live in slave like condition, reduce the number of jobs available for legal immigrants, give legal immigrants and US born Hispanics a bad name, often have to resort to crime in order to live, and so on.

Just look what uncontrolled immigration did to Palestine, the United States, Sri Lanka etc. The native people find themselves strangers in their own countries, under attack, sent to reservations / refugee camps, etc. etc.

It is just a fact of human nature.

ENJOY!
29

Silence of the Yams,

19/05/2008 11:29:25
Never the ANC, beloved of the British left, behaving in a racist and violent manner? Winnie Mandela, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth according to Neil Kinnock etc. This is the peaceable lot that invented
'necklacing' lest we forget.
30

Media 1,

cape town 19/05/2008 12:23:12
The raw truth about what is happening here is as follows. South Africa is for all intent and purposes what you would call a first world nation sandwhiched between a third world mindset and a second world attitude. Whilst the rest of Africa was falling apart under black African rule, South Africa under white rule was expanding. The best roads on the continent, the best schools, the best hospitals, the best suburbs etc. But of course all these white owned technologies and innovations were kept exclusively for white people in a sort of "invent your own technology attitude"
Thankfully that system came to an end on the basis that white South Africans voted 90% to 10% for a fully democratic society, thus the new South Africa was born.
However, if you were white you were immediately confronted with violent behaviour. Suddenly this once quiet and peaceful nation was now a violent and utterly chaotic society. Suddenly the standards were dropping in schools, suburbs like the once prosperous Hillbrow were now broken, dirty and violent havens for Nigerian drug lords. They hijacked entire buildings and before long that once safe and beautiful neighbourhood on the outskirtst of Johannesburg city centre was a disgusting cesspit.(but it was still better than the broken African nations up north) The streets are still strewn with litter, there is sh!t and pi$$ all over the place, it stinks and it is getting worse by the day.
If you were white you suddenly saw a change in the rules of the road, because now there were no rules. Mini bus taxi's which were once exiled to the townships now drove on suburban pavements, skipped red lights, beat up their passengers in broad day light if they complained about their driving and stopped anywhere at anytime. They still behave like this, violent and utterly out of control. They WILL shoot you if you challenge them on the road.
AIDS became a pandemic and our health minister said that beetroot and garlic would cure it, she still stands by this
31

,

19/05/2008 12:25:07
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32

voltaire's janny,

19/05/2008 13:57:39
Media 1

How bleak is your comment. The problem in Africa is not their penchant for chaos. It is the lack of rule of law and willingness of those in power to hand it over peacefully when their terms end.

Mbeki is culpable because he could have prevented the crisis in Zimbabwe and chose not to on the grounds that one sovereign state does not interfere in the internal affairs of another. Rubbish. What he means is he himself is far from squeaky clean and wants the trammels of office as close to in perpituity as he can get.

A society will remain in chaos as long as its functionaries and governors are corrupt. An open press, a statement of intent and term limits for all power positions would be a good start.
33

Fairfax,

19/05/2008 14:09:41
voltaire's janny (35): "How bleak is your comment. The problem in Africa is not their penchant for chaos.It is the lack of rule of law and willingness of those in power to hand it over peacefully when their terms end"

His comment is bleak, but it has the ring of truth, sadly.
34

Media 1,

cape town 19/05/2008 14:12:43
voltaire

Yes you are right. Any society will remain in chaos so long as the governors enjoy their dictatorship. The underlying principle in despotic regimes is always fear, so long as the people fear for their lives and their property the dictatorship will continue. In Africa we experience a lack of forethought though. If you live in Africa you will quickly note the difference between the way that white people manage and direct their communities as opposed to the way black people do is very different.
South Africa will eventually succumb to the chaos that prevails in almost every African nation. When that happens there will be a clamour to blame apartheid and colonialism for the disaster, but only because that is easier than facing the truth concerning black rule.
Mbeki had a resposibility to ensure that the South African people were protected from the escalating violence that is unfolding under the hideous Mugabe regime. But as is usual with African leaders, Mbeki decided that his history with Mugabe coupled with the liberation movement was more important than saving lives.
35

,

19/05/2008 14:55:40
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36

Media 1,

cape town 19/05/2008 15:34:18
The back douglas

This mindset that colonialism is to blame for continued African failure is a nonsense. Haiti has been independent for the same amount of time as America, need we say more.
I will accept that colonialism has hampered Africa in her quest to become an economic giant, but colonialism is not responsible for the two dead school girls who were shot today because their dad is from Zimbabwe. Colonialism is not to blame for Mugabe's attitude toward his very own people. Colonialism is not to blame for Idi Amin's barbaric treatment of his people. Colonialism is not to blame for Mbeki's failure to deal with Mugabe.
AFRICA only has herself to blame for being so sub standard and primitive.
War can drive a society to do crazy things, we have seen the results of war in Europe and Africa. But I very much doubt that you will find white Australians burning immigrant New Zealander's, immigrant English, immigrant Chinese. I very much doubt you will find white French people burning black Northern African people or white American immigrants. White societies do not revert to such primitive behaviour, yet Africa continues to suffer this sort of barbaric behaviour year after year.
No condition is permanent, but some are recurring.
37

Erchie Broon,

19/05/2008 16:33:11
*38 Balder
What I find quite amazing is that if a murder or rape is committed in Society then our Courts are only too willing to accept DNA evidence (as are we all)as the ultimate proof of guilt.
Yet numerous Psychological studies have been taken on the various Races and we are not willing to accept their outcome preferring to label the author a racist. Prof Richard Lynn of the University of Dublin in a recent study found Sub Sahatran Africans as having IQ levels of around 67, second lowest to the Aborigines, and that Blacks showed a far greater propensity for psychopathic behaviour than Whites. Now if one accepts these findings doesnt that go a long way to explaining the constant Wars and Tribalism in Africa. Or how about this to open your eyes:
Billions of dollars raised for African famine relief by celebrities Bono and Bob Geldof have instead funded civil war across the continent, says terrorism expert Dr Loretta Napoleoni.
That huge amount of aid, which includes money from the United Nations and donations generated by Live Aid for Ethiopia, organised by Geldof, and the Live 8 concert in 2005, organised by Bono, has instead "served as a rogue force, notably as an important form of terrorist financing" in countries such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Tanzania and Kenya. Ethiopia, for example, received $1.8 billion in foreign aid between 1982-85, including a large contribution from Live Aid; $1.6 billion of that, she points out, was spent on buying military equipment.

"The money has ended up making Africa poorer and more violent because the money has been diverted towards warlords, weapons and armed invasions," she says. "The problem of Africa is corruption."

38

Fairfax,

19/05/2008 17:17:49
The Black Douglas (39): "but I will agree that the UK had abandoned it's responsibilities to these countries far too quickly and that is why we have all this trouble today."

However that theory does not explain why other former colonies escaped these problems, despite equally rapid decolonization. To give two examples,India and Malaysia are prosperous state -- their history is not perfect, but it's infinitely better than almost any sub-Saharan African nation. Politically incorrect though it is, the recurrence of similar problems in different circumstances is consistent with a genetic component.
39

voltaire's janny,

19/05/2008 18:08:21
I feel the creeping stain of racism among us. First of all we should not call it that. There is no scientific definition of race, only differing amounts of common and mutated genes. We are all African. In fact every single person from the ancient radiations is more closely related to each other than any of us is to a modern African. More than 90% of human genome variation remains in Africa, showing that this is the most ancient group of humans.

The -ism we are after is colour prejudice. We whites are closer to Polynesians, Aussie Aboriginals, Innuit, Mongols, Japanese and Indian subcontinentals that we are to modern Africans, but our hatred seems to pick on just one phenotype - skin colour. Weird when there's so much else as visible; big noses, hooded eyes, height that would do just as well.

So it's a cultural thing. When English or Anglophile Blue noses rampage it's just laddish-ness, but when immigrant Africans carry on their cultural propensity to violence it's about genes? Aye right.

Sure it's easy to despair at the self destructiveness of Africa, but blaming it all on innate characteristics is just as bad, no it's worse, than blaming colonialism.

I know this is just a ranters' forum but some of you posting above have revealed a nasty side you mide want to examine objectively.
40

voltaire's janny,

19/05/2008 18:11:13
..might want to...
41

Fairfax,

19/05/2008 19:16:28
voltaire's janny (46): "There is no scientific definition of race, only differing amounts of common and mutated genes."

Whilst I do not wish to support crass racism, it is not true that there is no scientific definition of race: the modern definition would be in terms of genome clustering. The optimistic idea that there would be no DNA definition of race now even has a name: Lewontin's fallacy. There is an interesting article on this topic by Armand-Marie Leroi, a geneticist at Imperial College, London, here:

http://raceandgenomics.ssrc.org/Leroi/

42

Fairfax,

19/05/2008 19:25:13
The Black Douglas (48): "Why use scientific argument when everybody knows that race has nothing to do with crime?"

Does everybody know this? I would say rather that, for excellent moral reasons, the civilized view is to regard race and crime as unlinked. This is a noble step, and to abandon it is indeed dangerous, but science is not there to make us comfortable. To consider a different point, it is wholly correct that males and females are equal under the law. However, it is not true that their crime rates are equal: males are responsible for the vast majority of crimes, in all societies. The natural conclusion is that this difference is genetic, not cultural: thus vast differences is behaviour can be due to tiny variations in DNA (in this case, limited to the Y-chromosome alone).
43

Biker,

Ayr 19/05/2008 20:13:50
In principal I agree with Black Douglas. The dirty rush to abandon these colonies has led to where we are now, along with the fact that due to the severe lack of meaningfull education meant that in most cases there was a power vacuum which was filled with tribalism and the like.
44

Fairfax,

19/05/2008 20:27:31
Biker (52): "The dirty rush to abandon these colonies"

When Britain and France abandoned these colonies in Africa, it was with the extremely strong encouragement of the US, the prevailing opinion being that, with the demise of imperialism, all would be well. It seems strange that we are now accused of leaving them too quickly!

I'm sympathetic to the idea of a power vacuum leading to war, and we've certainly seen that in the Middle East, with the end of the Ottoman Empire, and in the former USSR. None of these, however, exhibit the same level of problems seen in Africa.
45

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 19/05/2008 20:42:03
We have to thank Harold Wilsoon and NIBMAR - No independence before majority African rule. The way to hell is paved with good intentions.

Mugabe makes the previous apartheid system look like a kindergarten function.

As one of the other readers has said -Madiba magic is vanishing fast
46

indune1,

Canada 19/05/2008 21:12:51

Britain didn't "abandon" her former African colonies. There were gradual and peaceful transitions to self-rule after mutual agreements were established.

The Commonwealth arrangement and institution ensured that Britain's former colonies continued to receive decades of aid - financial and otherwise.

Almost every AFrican nation has proved to be a failure.

When challenged, almost without exception, each one points a bony finger at the "West" and says that their plight is the result of racist imperialism.

Just read any one of Mugabe's recent speeches.

The UN is a gutless and neutered entity without credibility or influence.

However, the pandering and political correctness will continue.

I am a great fan of football. However, I wouldn't go to South Africa for the World Cup even if I were to win free tickets.

47

Rebel,

USA 19/05/2008 22:54:05
Not to worry - the Chinese rush to colonise Africa, (I really meant the Chinese rush to develop Africa's resource wealth for China's use), will result in much less violence being reported in Africa. The actual violence will probably increase, but we will hear about those rapes, robberies, murders and "ethnic cleansings" less because of the vice-grip China puts on their media, (and of course their puppets-in-charge - Mugabe, Mbeki, etc. will report "All is well"). All is well as long as those evil white folks are not in charge.
48

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 20/05/2008 05:12:51
I really enjoy these forums. Thanks to all that contribute.

Our left wing media continually lets us down. However there is a strong force growing aginst the tide of left wing stupidity.

Africa is a disaster. Always will be.

In response to an earlier poster about Black on Black crime, and Londons response to it. We in Canada have a similar situation. The native indians, known as first nations by the do gooders, and fools. Have their own quasi justice system. The can go to healing cicles, and sweat lodges. Instead of gaol.

I am no academic. However I once heard a phrase that has rung true for many years now.

" Idealism grows in direct proportion to ones distance to the problem" Or something like that. Do gooders take care.

World cup in Africa. Are you kidding me! Of course the politics may dictate that it will go ahead.

Imagine the kidnapping targets though...would club team owners sleep well knowing their multi million pound assets are in S.A for maybe a month?

All the best.

49

Downunder Dude,

Adelaide 20/05/2008 07:00:41
Have just surfed on to this forum.

Lots of good comments on a very sobering, and alarming press release. World Cup 2010? You wouldn't get me there with a team of wild horses.

I think it's high time that the world sat up and took serious note of what is really happening to their beloved, "Rainbow Nation."

By all accounts, violent crime is totally out of control in South Africa now. Until recently, I had no idea that about 3,000 of their white farmers have been slaughtered since 1994, and that these farm attacks continue unabated.

I mean really; what the hell is going on in that place?
Why isn't anything being done about it? What's Mbeki doing about it, or is that a question that shouldn't be asked? Where is the world outcry about all those murders now?

The whole world hammered South Africa for their Apartheid policies, but Apartheid sounds like a stroll in the park compared to what's going on there now. Why the media silence?

That question deserves an answer. What an irony; what a farce; what hypocricy!!!!
50

,

20/05/2008 12:51:52
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51

,

20/05/2008 12:53:48
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52

Mensa George,

Washington, DC 20/05/2008 15:53:51
Folks living up to their stereotypes. And Tutu is saying they have a hard time in the US!
53

Leon Thomas,

Pietermaritzburg,South Africa 21/05/2008 09:22:13
It is always interesting to read comments made by armchair commentators that gain their information from a media that is largely geared towards either selling as many newspapers as possible or gaining as much increased viewer ship as possible by the sensationalised images portrayed.Whether the information is correct or not does not seem to matter.South Africans as a whole had also been taken by surprise by the violence that has erupted however there is always two sides to a story and it seems that everyone has their own angle on it..rather amusingly so.The truth of the matter is that there are many factors that play a role in these sort of situations not just one particular issue.A clear difference must be made between refugees and illegal immigration.Zimbabwe has a pop. of approximately 12million.It is estimated that between 3million to 5million are living in South Africa,1million of which are legal.Now in any country these kind of illegal immigration can put strain on limited resources and it has the tendency to cause peoples emotions to flair up.However saying that I am absolutely not condoning the violence that has taken place,I am more intersted on the many biased angles that people have.I am quite interested to know if some of the European commentators had ever had to deal with such huge influxes of people into their countries to this extent?The NIA-National intelligence Agency had gained information that these attacks are not as clear cut as it has been reported there is a political agenda here people,and it has become apparent that the attacks are orcastrated by parties who are interested in discrediting South Africa and with the broader agenda to get the type of negative publication,comments and interpretations as I had read here.Particularly on the advent of the 2010 world cup in South Africa.How more damning can it be if the reports that are going out is that South Africans are killing foreigners.The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of South
54

Fairfax,

21/05/2008 09:59:47
Leon Thomas (62): ."I am quite interested to know if some of the European commentators had ever had to deal with such huge influxes of people into their countries to this extent?"

Britain's immigration numbers have been high since the early 1990s, although less so than South Africa's. To be more precise, the vast majority of immigration has concentrated in England. Britain's ethnic minority population roughly doubled from 1991 to 2001, at which point it numbered some 5 million. Since then, our census statistics have seemed ever more wanting: we have little idea of precise numbers, but the number of legal ethnic minority immigrants in England is probably somewhere in the 7 million range, although it might be higher; roughly 30-40% of this immigration comes from Bangladesh and Pakistan, due to family reunification. Further, there may be as many as 1 million illegal immigrants, including dependants. We have also had an influx of some 1 million Poles since EU enlargement in 2004, together with smaller numbers of other EU nations. Roughly one half of London's school-age population is now ethnic-minority.

The reason for the statistical doubts above is that Britain ceased to monitor influx in 1997. Further, in a system with no ID card or regular citizenship checking, it is extremely easy to lose track of a rapidly increasing population.
55

Hickory,

US 21/05/2008 22:54:20
It's only a crime if ethnic Europeans do it. Aye, we are not very peaceful. "Ethnic Africans are only children with no direction" says one leftie. If ye believe this, all of Africa is lost. The UN is a total failure. They should be on top of this.
56

Subodai,

China 22/05/2008 02:41:03
#56 I think violence will decrease to depend on what control China has in Africa. If China is only to farm Africa, it bring at least moneys and good living standard. Crime in China is not very violent. Chinese no like unharmonious rude society. If China bring also police and army to Africa then this stops. Government will not tolerate.
57

Downunder Dude,

Adelaide 23/05/2008 04:24:54
#62 said: "It is always interesting to read comments made by armchair commentators....."

Agreed, armchair critics and mis-informed people abound. I also agree that the media thrives on sensationalism and selective reporting, and it is for that very reason, that I always do my own homework before passing comment. I therefore have an equal distaste for those who pass comment without having done due diligence.

Like you, I too am aware of the rumour that a so-called third force with a hidden agenda is behind this recent outbreak of violence, but with respect, anything that Essop Pahad says or hints at, needs to be taken with a massive dose of salt. If anyone has an agenda, look no further than that man.

Be that as it may and immaterial of what might lie behind this flare-up, the bottom line here is
the incredibly brutal and hideous nature of the violence. I'm sure you will have read in your very own newspaper, "The Witness," what was said by one of those who'd been arrested, viz: "We will burn them. We will burn them all. No one can stop us now." Sensationalism, or fact?

It cannot be denied, that violent crime is the order of the day in South Africa nowadays and that tourists are easy prey. Therefore, whilst not wanting to scare anyone off visiting beautiful South Africa, I'm sure you'd agree, awareness and vigilance is paramount.
58

Leon Thomas,

South Africa 24/05/2008 07:09:57
66 said:"Be that as it may and immaterial of what might lie behind this flare-up..."

I have to disagree on this point.It is important to understand what lies behind anything, failing to do so allows one the opportunity to engage in a knee jerk reaction to the matter.Then you are simply dealing with the symptoms of the disease and not the disease itself.However saying this I am not implying that the suffering and pain the people are experiencing at the moment is to be ignored.All I am saying is if the root cause is eradicated then a lasting solution can be found.Yes,condemn the violence but at the end of the day that will not sort the problem.What I think is needed is constructive criticism with the aim of finding a workable solution rather than criticising the country as a whole. Deal with the specific areas that need attention with solutions not just criticism.That I gues is what we as South Africans can only do but support is required not damnation and head shaking.Violence is something that occur in many countries across the world including South Africa,yes it can get very violent at times but we come from a culture as a result of apartheid that inculcated that way of thinking and reacting and it may take a few more generations for it to be eradicated.It should be also noted that the apartheid regime still have it's agents out there that do not want to see a democratic South Africa succeed and they are still at work.
59

Downunder Dude,

Adelaide 25/05/2008 04:57:58
#66 said: "Violence is something that occur in many countries across the world including South Africa, yes it can get very violent at times."

At times? At times; did you say? Knee-jerk reaction? Give me a break!!! You want to deal with the disease? Well, why don't we start off with the inciting-to-violence and irresponsible "Mshini wami" song of Jacob Zuma, just for starters. (Bring me my machine gun). What do you read into that?......and please don't tell me it's just a cheap throw-away line of his. What kind of message does that send to the masses and how have they responded to it? Is that a way to find a "lasting" solution? I suggest to you, it is inflammatory to the nth degree at the very least; and what song do you think was being sung by the perpetrators of that violence last week? Yes, you guessed it. "Mshini Wami," your very own Jacob Zuma's theme song.

Tens of thousands more people have died since 1994, than did during the entire apartheid era, and so many of these recent victims have been hideously tortured and raped before being killed. That is becoming common knowledge, as is the fact that South Africa has become the murder capital of the world with more than 50 murders per day. To continue blaming apartheid for everything that goes wrong is being naïve beyond description and quite frankly, is starting to wear a bit thin. I haven’t sucked these figures out of my thumb. They are all verifiable.

Also, in the past ten years, more than 400 Somalis have been killed in South Africa in the same kind of violence as we saw last week.....and what about the 3,000+ white farmers that have been murdered since 1994, not to mention the other tens of thousands of ordinary peace-loving people of all race groups?

How is it, that being appalled at these shocking murder statistics coming out of South Africa can be called a knee-jerk reaction? That's not just reason to shake ones head. That's reason for world outrage.

This is what’s been happening in the so-ca
60

Downunder Dude,

Adelaide 25/05/2008 05:02:27

#68 cont:(Oviously ran out of allowable space)

This is what’s been happening in the so-called democratic South Africa and President Mbeki’s response to it? “Crime in South Africa is just a perception.” He is in total denial and has done absolutely nothing to address the shocking crime rate. You should know. You live there. After all, he is the very same man who told the world that there’s no crisis in Zimbabwe. What has he been smoking? Not condemning Mugabe’s actions is tantamount to condoning them. Given the above verifiable statistics, one starts wondering if he is not the one with an agenda. Let’s face it; if that’s your government’s idea of democracy, then who could be surprised if there was a backlash?

The writing has been on the wall for many years. The world is starting to sit up and take notice and people are getting wise to the continual blame-shifting that your politicians are turning into an art form.
61

Leon Thomas,

South Africa 25/05/2008 15:24:59
Well well.As i had said in my earlier posts screaming and shouting from our lofty towers solves nothing.The question should be asked instead what is the SOLUTION.Condemn for all you like quote stats appear informed but you fail to come up with a solution.For the sake of constructive debate what do you think could be a solution.What,fire all the people you mentioned and appoint??? Who??? Who says anybody else would be any better or worse than any of your own leaders having to face or deal with similar circumstances?

 

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