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Donald Trump: 'If anyone else had tried to build a £1bn golf resort, they'd have got an easier ride'



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Published Date: 11 June 2008
DONALD Trump yesterday claimed his status as a celebrity and the world's best-known tycoon had prevented him getting speedy approval for his ambitious plan to build the world's greatest golf resort in Scotland.
He also boasted that he was one of only a few entrepreneurs around the globe who had the ability to develop the spectacular links at the Menie Estate in Aberdeenshire into a £1 billion boost to the Scottish economy.

And he made it clear that only
the best would satisfy his lofty ambitions for the environmentally sensitive site.

Giving evidence on the first day of the public inquiry into the controversial development, he told Scottish Government planning reporters: "I am either going to do the greatest course or not. In the US, we have an expression, 'half-assed' – let's do it properly."

Trump, the first witness called, yesterday spent more than three hours giving evidence at the Aberdeen Exhibition and Conference Centre.

He was closely questioned by his former nemesis, Martin Ford, the local councillor who was sacked from his post as chairman of Aberdeenshire Council's planning authority for using his casting vote to block the massive leisure and housing scheme.

He was challenged by Mr Ford over his refusal to compromise on the decision to build part of the main championship course on a protected site of special scientific interest (SSSI).

Trump said: "If you want to have something great in this community – approve it. If you want to have something mediocre, build a golf course off the dunes that nobody will use, nobody will ever play and, frankly, nobody will write or care about – except maybe you."

He also insisted his development would lead to the site being "magnificently maintained".

And he said he walked on the site on the eve of the inquiry and that the ground was littered with dead birds and refuse: "There is rubbish on the site, there's dumping. The site is a total mess.

"If we get approval you won't have that. When you walk on the site now, it's disgusting."

Asked by John Agnew, for Sustainable Aberdeenshire, if he had not felt compelled to clear the mess up, Trump replied: "We are doing it all the time. But people sneak on to the site and dump things."

Later at a press conference, the star of American television's The Apprentice said: "If somebody else had applied, they would have gotten it a lot easier than me.

"The celebrity and all of this media and craziness is probably a liability for me. But it's an asset for the area and for Scotland. Everybody is talking about this course all over the world."

Trump also claimed he had the award-winning green credentials to prove he was a guardian of the environment.

He told the inquiry: "I have received many environmental accolades and awards and I consider myself an environmentalist in the true sense of the word. I believe this will be a course that will be significantly environmentally enhanced when it is completed.

"The environment will benefit. The plant life – the habitat life – every aspect of life will be preserved and enhanced.

"Right now, that site is a killing field and they kill 25,000 birds a year. When I build this course, they won't be killing any birds."

Trump repeatedly insisted that the ecology of the area would benefit from the development, which opponents claim will destroy a unique stretch of Scotland's coastline.

He added: "The environmental benefits outweigh any negatives.

"But when you add the economics into the equation, it's not even a contest."

Trump later said: "I am shocked to be here because I thought I would be building the course by now. It was a fluke that we lost (the council vote].

"It's unfortunate, but often I find great things take more time. This is one of those examples."





The full article contains 662 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 June 2008 8:18 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

East Coast Chick,

11/06/2008 04:46:03
First of all, I am an East Coast Chick from the USA, I don't know Donald Trump, but I admire anyone who has a set of brass *alls and is willing to take a chance in life. After reading everyone's comments and sorry to have missed those that were removed, I have to shake my head. Donald is a billionaire! And with the current Real Estate market crashing around the world, I highly doubt that he would be willing to invest two billion dollars, just to take an ego trip down memory lane.

For the past six years, I have been researching my own family roots from Scotland and personally, I can understand Donald's mindset (even though I'm broke lol ) He just wants to pay tribute to his beloved mum and homeland. Rich folk like to leave their mark as a legacy to their family name. As far as Donald only spending a few minutes at the birth home of his mother, I read that as a matter of respect for his long distant cousins who now live in the home. I'm totally sure that he felt the connection for the few minutes that he stood in the home. Lots of folk think that the average American is out for the almighty buck/pound, but perhaps just perhaps this is much more meaningful then anyone is even considering at the moment?

I personally had the honor of visiting your beloved Scotlandand I was totally blown away by its beauty and I can certainly understand everyone's concerns, but

Just for the record, I live on Aberdeen in the states, so the name alone holds a special interest.

Among all the comments that I read, I see that everyone is overlooking one very important point. Wether or not "The Donald" is building this golf course for the rich & famous? Won't there be a tax imposed the houses that he wants to build that will benefit the shire of Aberdeen?
2

Mist001,

Marseille 11/06/2008 05:20:30
As I said yesterday, I think that Aberdeenshire Council were just over-awed by the fact that they'd received a planning application from Donald and just panicked since all they had been used to in the past was just general planning applications such as house extensions, building a garage and so on.

I think Martin Ford is a bit star struck, because he'll never get the chance to deal with anyone like Donald Trump again.

On a more positive note, it's making the UK national press now rather than being a parochial Scottish matter.

Michael.
3

Geronimo,

Thailand 11/06/2008 05:39:28
Not only the UK press but now big news in Asia on BBC World and CNN plus local newspapers. Scotland you don't know how good this is for you. Why is it a Scottish trait to knock those who have done well in their lives?

Get real and move this on then not only will the houses sell but people will travel from all over to play at Donald's Course in Scotland.
4

Mist001,

Marseille 11/06/2008 05:59:29
Actually, I just had a thought: I'll bet his course eventually gets nicknamed McDonalds amongst the celebrity golfers!!

I'd better get on the phone to Iggy Pop and Alice Cooper and tell them I thought of it first! I don't think Iggy can play golf anymore anyway, because of his dodgy hip.

Michael.
5

Ubi,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 06:28:07
Say anything, do anything. Trump told Vanity Fair magazine earlier this year that he was going to get planning permission BECAUSE of who he is.
6

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 06:50:07
Good luck Donald Trump I for one hope you succeed & that this magnificant opportunity is built.
7

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 11/06/2008 07:08:36
A housing scam is a housing scam is a housing scam. Golf is merely the shaky cleek on which this application has been hung.

Why don't the locals care that they are being taken for suc*ers?
8

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 07:11:08
Good luck Donald Trump I also hope you succeed & that this magnificant opportunity is built.
9

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 07:12:17
We're bought and sold for American gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.
10

Zambo,

11/06/2008 07:12:48
What kind of hollow victory is it for Scotland if this development does not go ahead, it's not the Amazon jungle we're talking about cutting down and never replacing? This project is all about enhancing the natural beauty of the location and building interest in the region, so what if it makes money when did that become a crime?
11

Mallory,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 07:16:33
Trump doesn't get it. Many people here (I hope they turnout to be the majority) are saying that money is not the only consideration. With Scotland's increasing social divide the last thing needed is yet another block of up-market homes and another private golf course.

Trump would better achieve a philanthropic reputation and a lasting memorial by using his wealth and business acumen to sort out some of the many Scottish sink estates and lack of affordable social housing.

12

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 07:16:38
7 Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation

Actually it is Martin Ford and Debra Storr who are taking the locals as suckers for it is we who are paying their wages as employees of Aberdeenshire Council and it is we who are paying for the Inquiry that that two clowns caused and meanwhile they try to wreck opportunities for the Region.
The embarrassment caused by that gruesome twosome is apparent from everyone I have spoken to.

Bring on the next election quickly.
13

eric,

11/06/2008 07:38:18
the further south the more chance of be approved,you would have thought aberdeen were used to big deals being oil capital,seems this is just out their league.a lot of areas in england are lining up incase its refused.dont blame them,it sends out a backward image of the country chasing big investors out.
14

11+failed,

the pans 11/06/2008 07:39:46
If this is a housing scam as the usual suspects of the "agin anything" brigade are suggesting it is a curious time to be gambling on the property market.
15

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 07:44:03
Strange as it may seem to some people - this development is widely welcomed in the North-East. We have become one of the most prosperous parts of Britain on the back of a single industry and we need to diversify. Trump's course isn't the sole answer, but it fills in another 2 or 3 pieces in the jigsaw.

In the local paper a few weeks ago he appeared to be offering 100 affordable houses and a new school if he got permission. If that is firmly tied down it goes a long way to clinching it for me.
16

Eddie the Eagle,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 07:53:39
What happened to all the plans Aberdeenshire council had a few months back to double the population of the North East? How's that going to work if you knock back people wanting to develop housing? I can't see Aberdeenshire council knocking back a development plan like this if Stuart Milne had made it...
17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 07:57:25

'Tea and biscuits,....Mr Trump,?'

'Can I get that door for you,...Mr Trump,?'

'Did you sleep OK,....Mr Trump,?'

'More Sugar in your Tea,...Mr Trump,?'

'Can I 'blow your nose for you',....Mr Trump,?

'Need you shoes cleaned,...Mr Trump,?
18

Mist001,

Marseille 11/06/2008 08:04:34
#15,

Absolutely agree. There has to be firm conditions laid down and agreeable to both parties but I think the problem is Martin Ford.

Before this, nobody outside of Aberdeenshire had ever heard of, least alone cared about Martin Ford. Now he's a national name, as #3 says, he's becoming an international name. All this is going to his head and he's let the people of Aberdeenshire down badly imo.

Can you imagine when he hosts a dinner party? The sole topic of conversation is always going to be about how he stood up to 'flambouyant, famously internationally known Billionaire, Donald Trump', and how he put him and his money in their place.

I smell a chat show circuit coming up, ten minutes on the Richard and Judy show and things like that.

Let's face it, they're only used to dealing with planning applications from residents of the area who might want to build a conservatory on their house or something similar.

They didn't for one minute when they were elected, ever expect a planning application from Donald Trump!

Now they're going for their 15 minutes of fame which is fair enough, but they're dragging Scotland down with them.

Milk the fame (or infamy), then approve the application.

Everyones a winner.

Michael.
19

eric,

11/06/2008 08:12:57
17 let me get that door for you,have a nice day now,
20

scunnin,

Germany 11/06/2008 08:30:32
#1 no matter what your roots are, you arent scottish! Plus he has insulted us by saying we have mediocre courses or places .. well then take your lovely money and invest it somewhere else. We are proud of our mediocre land and courses!
21

SteveSC,

West Lothian 11/06/2008 08:41:15
This should not be described as a golf resort, it is a large housing development with a golf course.

A lot of Scottish people would like a piece of that land to build a home but the planning regulations prevent it.

If Trump wants to build 1000 houses it should be handled in the same way as a local builder who wants the land. The golf course and hotel can be considered separately.
22

Sunrise,

Fife 11/06/2008 08:46:26
Planers?
Concerned Bodies?
NGOs?

Fix the issues and get on with the project. Thats how stuff gets done.
This project will benifit a lot of people


All this rubbish about Trump insulting us or taking us for a ride. Gings! I doubt Trump wastes his time with any such thoughts.

Unfortunatly many of the objectors, as far as I see, spend there lives moaning about projects or people that take things forward. That's any easy options for them. But, ask them to create something or take something forward. That seems beyond them.

It seems we give too much time to moaners and slag off doers.


23

puskas,

East kilbride 11/06/2008 08:53:42
Just build it.. There are no disadvantages only good.
24

scunnin,

Germany 11/06/2008 08:55:20
#22 I think thats a rough comment coming from someone who doesnt know any of us and what we do as jobs .. he says it will be open for people to walk around, I am sorry i dont see that happening. If its a private golfing area, that wont happen. Sorry to disagree.
25

nigels,

11/06/2008 09:05:44
If anyone else had tried to build a £1b golf course they'd probably have chosen a less ecologically sensitive place to do it?!?

One of the last shifting sand dunes in Europe isn't so far behind rain forest in terms of environmental sensitivity!
26

Scotty Cameron,

Musselburgh 11/06/2008 09:11:24
Can't understand what all the fuss is about? We've got a similar development in East Lothian called Archerfield and it's been fantastic for the local community. Every weekend you see all the locals down there walking freely amongst the dunes. The local residents' special rates for a round of golf at the weekend (only £5 a round) are most welcome. The community housing is another welcome atraction to East Lothian with 5 bedroom houses starting at only £250. Yes, Aberdeen, you really don't know how lucky you are with this potential development. I say let the man with the mop on his head build....
27

Zambo,

11/06/2008 09:13:40
#20

Pride comes before a fall.
28

Zambo,

11/06/2008 09:21:01
Ambulance and white coats for #25 please
29

Buttress,

11/06/2008 09:22:08
Seems that the protection of SSI's and national planning policies is what's at stake here, which most seem to have forgotten. Or should it be one law for Donald Trump, another for the rest of us?

30

Beth Boyle,

NY 11/06/2008 09:22:10
#21 you are right!
31

Zambo,

11/06/2008 09:31:34
Could you swing that ambulance round by #31 while you're at it.
32

Farmernot,

11/06/2008 09:34:32
Trump is correct......anyone else would have been given the green light long before now...........Get on with it !!!!!
33

Myosotis,

11/06/2008 09:37:00
Overton (12) is still trying to tell us that two "extreme" councillors rejected the Trump application when in fact there were NINE from all political parties, and only FIVE in favour.

Why this pretending about the Aberdeenshire voting?

Far better for Trump`s supporters to stick to the facts, and try bring home to him that the vast majority of people in the north-east want a compromise, a championship golf course but the SSSI to be left intact.

To have up here the very best championship course in the world is simply not realistic, given our weather, the prevalence of haar, and the vested interests of those associated with our top-class courses further south in Scotland.
34

RJ,

11/06/2008 09:41:31
#22: NGOs suggested a reasonable-looking alternative; Trump rejected it:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/donaldtrump/Trump-rejects-alternative-plan-for.4095793.jp

Who's being unreasonable?

#26: Archerfield is not on an SSSI. It's different.
35

Zambo,

11/06/2008 09:43:16
# 34

Okay we'll settle for top ten in the world, that should appease the Southerners.
36

Jude13,

Gullane 11/06/2008 09:47:12
Archerfield is a case in point. I use to walk here freely with my wife most weekends. Now it's impossible for the simple reason that as it's a golf course it's dangerous to walk around, not that the golfers there will give way at all. Last time we went a golfer told us 'You shouldn't be walking here. This is a bloody golf course, you know!'
We've also been refused entrance by some jobsworth at the entrance who asked us what business we had here if we're not members. I've lived in the area for over 50 years!
Trump isn't a philanthropist. He's a businessman. He doesn't care one bit about Scotland.
37

Scotty Cameron,

Musselburgh 11/06/2008 09:51:30
#31 Nomada

Dear, Dear. Have you never heard of irony? I'm dead against it you twit! Read between the lines....
38

Buttress,

11/06/2008 09:52:47
Totally agree with 37. He's doing it for the money, not because he cares.
39

geekpie,

forfar 11/06/2008 09:52:56
Trump: "build a golf course off the dunes that nobody will use, nobody will ever play and, frankly, nobody will write or care about – except maybe you [Ford]."

He's letting it get very personal. His comment sounds like a spoilt bully.
40

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 09:57:38
34 Myosotis,

Remember that for some peculiar reason Ford had 2 votes including the casting vote.

Very strange that such a primitive should be in such a decisive position - I suppose that goes back to incompetence within Aberdeenshire Council at that time.
They certainly (like the local population) woke up when they seen the mess that had been created.

What is also strange is that when the gruesome twosome presented themselves to the Inquiry yesterday they announced themselves as councillors - correct me if I'm wrong but surely they were there as individuals presenting their unique anti-development stance?

41

Sunrise,

Fife 11/06/2008 09:59:28
#35

I had a look at the link.

Sorry, but for a couple NGOs (who know nothing about actualy building stuff and making it work), to come in with a suggestion on redesign of a project that has been trying to get going for years, and at this late stage, then of course it would be ignored.

This is particularly true as this "new" design would have to go through all the approval process again. But then the NGOs knew this before they wasted money commissioning the design. Just playing games for the papers, I feel. And of course, to prove they are doing something. Sad realy....

Please get real here. We either go this this plan or not.

I say get on with it. NOW!

42

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 09:59:59
Poor old Donald, complaining that he gets a bad ride because of who he is. Well that's fair enough in my book: he should get a bad ride because he is a crass, tasteless and greed obsessed person of the worst kind and seems to have left plenty of former business partners hanging in the wind.

The big problem with him is his block-headedness. He just can't get the fact that a two minute PR stunt outside his old mama's house sixty years too late doesn't make up for the fact we don't want him and his kind wrecking Scotland.
43

Stepford Nat,

11/06/2008 10:00:41
At least he didn't try to bribe anyone
44

Zambo,

11/06/2008 10:01:33
#39

Of course he cares, you don't imagine he made all his money by not caring, he cares about his buyers, bankers, investors, employees, partners, and his reputation, oh and not forgetting the wee bird on the nest in the corner (mind you that one was shot and stuffed a long time ago).

FOUR.......
45

Sedov,

Scotland 11/06/2008 10:06:14
Hail to Donald, the saviour of Scotland! If the golf course fails we are doomed!................
46

Doh,

11/06/2008 10:08:10
#34

You are right since this whole affri kicked off - the SNP troll called overton has been making this a party poliical issue and not a planning issue to be judged on its merits.

He is blind to the fact that 9 councillors voted against it - and that several of them were from the SNP. That doesnt fit his prejucial view so he ignores.

He might also like to explain why the SNP councillor Norman Work is objecting to the building of some more houses near Ratho?

Just as well they are not being built by Trump or it would be a matter of national importance.
47

Melly,

Sussex 11/06/2008 10:10:26
#11 Mallory. What a load of Stalinist Socialist rhetoric. What the hell has this to do with "the ever widening social divide" ? The sink estates are the legacy of your Liebour pals over the past 50 years and are not the responsibility of any one private individual to sort out.
48

Zambo,

11/06/2008 10:20:05
#51

Yup you sure told him there, that's how you go about getting rid of a pesky $2 Billion investment.
49

A Crofter,

Western Isles 11/06/2008 10:34:12
"Stabilise the doons" - oh yeah?

How does such an arrogant, dim-witted oaf attract such adulation?

After yesterday's crass display of ignorance (over SSSIs, access legislation, etc) Golffinger deserves pride of place beneath the first bunker.

Dontcha just love those sexy Reporters? Do you think they fancy a jump?



50

Chum of Boris,

Henley on Thames 11/06/2008 10:35:40
Have you seen Donald Trump's hair?
I wonder if he is related to my chum Boris. This may be useful when Boris runs for President of the United States in 2016.
51

Chris,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 10:43:40
#12,overton, balmedie: Ford and his committee did not have the power to grant permission to do anything on an SSSI. If they had approved the development it would have been in breach of the regulations covering SSSIs. so what were they supposed to do? The answer has to be, refuse the application and send it back for adjustment. That, it appears, is what they did. But Trump and his legal advisor were not prepared to consider that. If you want to blame anyone, then blame the Scottish Exec. and Brussels for declaring the dunes an SSSI in the first place.
52

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 10:52:40
#52 What never fails to disappoint me is how some of you would seemingly stick your head in an oven if some trumped up (no pun intended) Mr Flash came flaunting his cash and told you to.

Scotland has things Trump’s projects never have: beautiful natural and built heritage and a great long history. Trump, like all parasites, just wants to live off and exploit his host - in this case Scotland. Don't let him do it – his organisation will simply create a Disneyesque abomination of tartan tat.

Added to which his track record in business is pretty flakey and the worst case scenario is that he raises huge bank loans to build this golf course (the money never comes out of the "entrepreneur's" own pockets) builds it half way and then packs it in and flies home. While he may make a tidy profit, Aberdeen-shire will be left with nothing but the ugly unfinished ruins and probably liability for re-paying loans on a bankrupted project.
53

paulr,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 11:01:37
#1 we are supposed to take your comments and suddenly beleive Donald trump is some kind of angel?
As with the vast majority of Americans, it is a cultural thing, The bottom line is all that matters, Trump cares about profits and nothing else, the local community the wildlife and ecology of the area mean nothing to him unless he can make a profit on it.
54

MWP,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 11:04:27
#55 - SSSI is not a European designation, it's a purely a UK one.
55

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 11:07:36
That this is an SSI seems to be the main problem (apart from Trump being rich & American) that objectors have. Yet I have never seenany objectors actually showing any knowledge of its SSiness.

Quick - what is the nature of the special scientific interest clasification & how many scientific expeditions have gone there in the last 5 years.

No looking it up on Google you enviros, but purely from your personal knowledge. On your honour.
56

RJ,

11/06/2008 11:12:38
#42: The inquiry is into "outline" permission for the whole site. Trump's people have said that this could include golf to a less damaging layout - but their boss won't consider that as an option.

http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/menieinquiry/

Which doesn't seem a particularly reasonable position to take.

Trump's stance of "my great golf course is more important than your Scottish nature even if it's protected by your Scottish law" is both arrogant and insulting.

57

brownlie,

11/06/2008 11:18:07
56

I suspected you were a fool yesterday and your last paragraph confirms it.

Show us the proof that public money guarantees will be given by local or national government regarding this project.
58

Balliol II,

Dunbar 11/06/2008 11:19:10
#55 It wasn't the Scottish Exec/ Government who made the site a SSSI. However why do so many posters seem so prejudiced against protecting the dunes? Perhaps they should try to find out why they are so scheduled.
As for the criticisms of Mr Ford it seems a good idea to me to have councillors who do try to ensure that such a planning application is properly considered. He is not, as one poster said, a paid employee of the council.
The worship of Trump is terrible. This proposed housing development (with golf tacked on) is intended to be self financing so the Trump makes money out of it. It is not a benevolent act. As for his previously neglected Scottish roots - this is nauseating.
Do stop cringing.
59

RJ,

11/06/2008 11:19:37
#59: Have a look at the inquiry documents http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/menieinquiry/ , which include plenty on the SSSI, including from the Trump organisation.

Their line all along has been "There's an SSSI; in fact, land outside it is just as good and the SSSI should be bigger; one of the two golf courses in our proposal will trash the SSSI; but it's such a great golf course that Scottish Ministers should simply accept the damage."

If Trump can't rearrange things on a 900 acre site to accomodate the SSSI he shouldn't be in property at all. The simple fact is he doesn't want to - which is an indiction of the respect he seems to have for Scottish laws and institutions. Very little, it would appear.
60

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 11:35:04
#61 I didn't say that Aberdeenshire will be left paying off the debts I said it was "the worst case scenario" but reading what is actually written here doesn't seem to be your strong point.

After seeing so many government car crashes with anything to do with investment and big projects, your blind faith that some flash entrepreneur with a team of crack lawyers won't draw up a contract with the local authority that totally benefits the said entrepreneur is very touching but also very naive.
61

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 11/06/2008 11:35:18
You'll notice there's a silence now from Nicol Stephen. He knows his seat is now precariously positioned..

If you like Trump or not, if he's a businessman or not, if it's about houses or a golf-course - these criticisms are all irrelevant.

It's the plan that has to be judged, not the man. It will be judged on its merits and that's that.

All the rest is embarrassing. Narrow-minded Scottish bickering. Absolutely shameful - I really wish people would stop being envious and petty and just let the application take its course.

Obviously the press are out to get Salmond but the opposition parties are shutting up because they know that in and around Aberdeen they're under threat of annihilation.
62

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 11/06/2008 11:48:53
# 29 Buttress.

Thank goodness someone can see the obvious! The hysteria being shown by international supporters of the highly inflated ego, money can get me anything, I don't need to follow rules, I'm rich!
What is happening to common sense? How will putting a rigid regime on a naturally mobile dune system make it more natural? The man is beyond belief! Planning laws and designations are put in place for a proper purpose. He has the temerity to say that it is because of his status that he is having difficulty in getting his plans passed? Any reasonable person would do things according to the rules of law rather than set out to bulldoze a track through them! If he gets away with this, Scottish Planning Law will have to be re-written. Otherwise every application turned down will be open to appeal and compensation claims will follow, citing Trump v Scottish Executive as evidence. Can the Scottish Executive afford to pass his application? Personally, I doubt it.
63

Buttress,

11/06/2008 11:55:59
Yup. The big picture seems to have escaped so many.
64

Number 6,

Germany 11/06/2008 12:05:17
At last this issue is getting world wide coverage.
great to see Labour coming out of this smelling of dung.How petty and childish they seem . I pray this flies through and we can get on with this development. LOcals ? is Trump right when he says the site is currently being used for dumping and is in a terrible state. That really would be the icing on the cake.
65

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 11/06/2008 12:05:27
For those international commentators on this issue who have never visited the dunes in question. He really ought to be stressing the health benefits to visitors. It leaves one's skin with a lovely silky feel on a windy day! It is due to the sand-blasting it gets from grit particles. It also ruins spectacles, binoculars, telescopes and camera lenses!
66

Buttress,

11/06/2008 12:08:00
The only people smelling of dung as far as I can see is Trump and his supporters, who appear to have little idea of UK law and national planning policy.

67

A Crofter,

Western Isles 11/06/2008 12:08:43
Brownlie, Overton, Clarry-Loon and all other ScotNut goons:

Why don't you stop slagging off everyone with a view that does not fit in with your blinkered wallet-worshipping dogma? What sort of "nationalists" are you, determined to sell our country's natural heritage so that a greedy foreign property speculator can turn a fast buck?

Remember that golf is the best way to ruin a good walk!
68

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 11/06/2008 12:15:42
#69 Number 6

I haven't visited the area for a few years. I would guess that a great deal of the rubbish (and dead birds) has been dumped there by storms bringing it in from the sea. It is a very common happening around the Scottish coastline. He states that 'they' have been cleaning the area regularly? Perhaps it would be better for him if 'they ' did a better job! If they can't keep up with it now, how will it look in the future, when the gullies are ironed out!
69

Mist001,

Marseille 11/06/2008 12:16:30
#70

LOL!! That's right. I've never been to Aberdeen in my life but I've been to Gullane and sand dunes are just hills of sand and rye grass, basically an open run for their dogs (which I have nothing against).

Donald Trump isn't a philanthropist, far from it, he wants to put money in and get a return on his investment as I'm sure anybody would.

But his money will boost the economy and standing of Aberdeenshire.

Consider this: He's already put Scotland on the map, without building a single thing and turning up for a meeting yesterday when he could just have easily sent a lawyer. This story is worldwide now.

Scotland are starting to look a bit stupid.

Michael.
70

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 12:18:28
Yup - perhaps the enviromentalist extremists who would hold the country down as an economic basket case might want to explain why this 'sensitive site' is currently a dumping ground for all kinds of garbage and has dead seabirds lying all over it - the area is treated by locals like a dump.

Donald's development will PROTECT this site from the vandalism it currently enjoys.

Also, Scotland is trying to move on. The traditional image of Scotland is of an insular thinking 'cannae dae that' mentality where success is despised and any attempt at economic progress is shunned. We're trying to move on from that guys: The Labour-stalinist hold over Scotland is over.

71

brownlie,

11/06/2008 12:21:18
65

On the contrary, reading your own posts is not your strong point.

When you said "worse case scenario" you were referring to bank loans.

You then went on the say that "Aberdeenshire will be left with ....
probably liability for repaying loans on a bankrupt project.

It is there at posting 56 for all to see.

You then go on to suggest that the LA's lawyers would be entering into some sort of contract with Trump. Trump is not building this facility in partnership with the council so your claim of liability for debts would not come into the equation.
72

Buttress,

11/06/2008 12:21:24
Which shows exactly the sort of ignorance of why these particular dunes are a SSI, and why so many are opposed to their being ruined for a golf course.

The standing of Aberdeenshire? I'm delighted with those standing up against the bullying and the ignorance of Trump and his supporters.
73

overton,

overton 11/06/2008 12:25:46
72 A Crofter,

Listen chum you shouldn't go around insulting the people that are paying your subsidies and you're that smug in your position that you think the money you get comes out of the sky.

Who walks on Menie like? I'll tell you - no one and they shouldn't be walking on the dunes anyway.
74

GGD,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 12:27:00
#34

Was the development not approved the week before by the local council???? So why did Martin Ford not proceed with the status quo when the vote was tied, ie he should have approved it?? He is a total numpty and an embarrassment to the local area. We have been made to look total fools at potentially turning down a huge investment for this area which will cost the local area nothing.
75

brownlie,

11/06/2008 12:27:33
72 Crofter

Where in my posting did you find any reference to "nationalism".

Have a look at Lews Castle and the MacNeil's stronghold in Castlebay. Do you think that these treasures were built without disturbing the environment.

76

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 12:29:02
That's a new one - he was discriminated against because he is "famous". He really is as arrogant as he comes across - it just seems he won't listen and move his development a bit.
77

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 12:31:15
Is this the future for Trumpty's golf course - an expensive tax-payer funded bail-out as it falls into financial collapse?

This was the Cairngorm funicular railway, which us environmentalists opposed saying it would be an expensive disaster. As usual we were proved right:

http://news.scotsman.com/entertainment/Debtridden-Cairn-Gorm-ski-centre.4099230.jp
78

overton,

Balmedie 11/06/2008 12:34:15
82 Mikko,Drumnadrochit

Your Loch Ness Monster Industry is doing Ok isn't it?
79

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 12:34:24
#76 I placed the whole lot under a "worst case scenario" hypothetical. I not say "this is what will happen for sure". Your ineptitude with English and puny attempts to put words in other peoples' mouths is irritating.
80

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 12:37:24
Mikko,


If 'us environmentalists' were as accurate in their doom-mongering predictions as you claim, the world would have ended 50 years ago.

You people are catastrophists who think that there isn't a rational argument that cannot be improved by the application of hyperbole and exaggerated statistics.

No wonder we don't listen to you anymore.
81

brownlie,

11/06/2008 12:46:36
85

My English may be inept but I am sure that a full stop or period usually signifies the end of a sentence including the "worse case scenario" sentence.

A capital letter as in the next sentence "While ...." signifies a new sentence.

You then show your aptitude - in comparison with my ineptitude - for English in your sentence "I not say ""this is what will happen for sure"".

What you did say was "probably" not "possibly". My understanding of English leads me to believe that "probably" illustrates a likely scenario.

Your scenario clearly is not likely.
82

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 11/06/2008 12:52:56
There are three kinds of objectors to the Trump Project.
(1) The socialists who think if some out-of-work resident of Torry can't afford to play golf no one else should be allowed to, who is always opposed to anything that might make a profit for someone but is the first to demand companies and businesses be taxed to the limit to pay for all their welfare projects.
(2) The environmentalists who have such a pure view of the world that they would have us all living in an organic, self-sustainable, non travelling lifestyle, and that no development is allowed and that those who use cars, go to supermarkets and have to heat their homes are deluded and criminal.
(3) The anti-SNP brigade who cannot bear that there might be some investment coming to Alex Salmond's constituency, despite the fact that Trump was planning his golf resort long before the First Minister was elected in Gordon.

The residents of Aberdeenshire (at least 80% of them are ordinary, normal, everyday folk, who know that it will be good for the economy, good for the environment and good for the future. Those who are opposed know that they are out of touch with majority which is why their posts here are often the most absurd, bigotted and irrational. Thank God I hold the view of the majority.
83

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 12:54:44
#87 In addition to putting your words into other peoples' mouths you now want to play at being a pedant. I am multi-tasking here (ie. doing something useful while also wasting my time replying to people like you) so the odd typo gets through. But a typo is just that, a small typo or missed word; that's a million miles different to telling other people what they themselves said and believe - you win that prize.

Since you will not accept that you are wrong I propose not to bother replying to anymore of your increasingly silly postings.
84

overton,

overton 11/06/2008 12:58:42
89 Mikko,Drumnadrochit

Aw come on don't be petulant and go away.

Have you seen the Loch Ness monster today?
85

Arfur,

11/06/2008 13:00:12
If the environmentalists win this fight, then you can kiss goodbye to large investments in Scotland for some time.

If they were in charge of the country we would still be a 3rd world country.
86

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 13:10:25
#90 I saw Nessie this morning just as I see her every morning and she said to me, "don't leave that Scotsman forum about Trumpty's golf course. If you give an inch to those who would prostrate themselves in front of any Tom, Dick or Donald who turns up with a fat wallet (and plenty of strings attached) then we are all doomed".

So overton, I promised Nessie that I would stand by her and the rest of Scotland's natural heritage and keep putting the case against that Trumptown abomination ever being built in Aberdeenshire or anywhere else in Scotland.
87

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 13:18:39
92 Mikko,

Well the tourists will be flooding up your way now after this most recent siting.

We here at Balmedie look forward to Mr Trump's new development and the subsequent flooding of our area with lots of tourists.
88

Upandunder,

11/06/2008 13:18:47
I'm all for investment etc, but this course should be built on old industrial land, maybe in Fife.

That way, Trump would get his beloved Scottish golf course, the investment would come in, and land which was previously an eyesore (rather than an environmental treasure) would be an eyesore no longer.

We should look at what the Germans have done since the collapse of heavy industry in the Ruhr. They've reclaimed old industrial land and turned them into truly stunning urban parks, golf courses, rock venues and open-air musuems.

In addition, old blighted land in Central/Fife is closer to the population belts and a Links there would surely attract more users and more revenue.
89

platy,

glasgow 11/06/2008 13:19:56
I studied ecology in Aberdeen, and recall a wonderful field trip to the dunes where we learned about the unique plants and animals living there. Looks bleak at first, but is amazing once you learn whats there. Incidentally, we saw several walkers and a school trip but no dead birds. Perhaps the huge numbers referred to have ended up there by other means!?!
90

Buttress,

11/06/2008 13:20:53
The environmentalists have, of course. the legal protection of the SSI on their sides. Should that, and national planning policies, be brushed aside when it suits?
91

McMillar,

Fife 11/06/2008 13:24:08
Is Nicol Stephen still in post? I'm amazed this is still rolling on. No-brainer and yes should be fully approved etc....
92

Jock Wilson,

inverness 11/06/2008 13:32:41
Buttress,

Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the hue and cry from the law-abiding environmentalists when North Sea Oil was discovered. This is history repeating itself. Then, there were apocryphal visions of unspoiled beaches being covered in oil spills: sea bird population decimated: North Sea full of rusting hulks: fishing grounds defiled: the people exploited by loud mouth Texan entrepreneurs who would walk away once the oil was gone leaving a wilderness in their wake: the rapacity of humans etc etc Yakkety Yak.

I suppose the best that can be said for your kind is that you are basically harmless. But then doesn't GreenPeace et al break laws when it suits them?
93

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 13:33:51
I would certainly look to the green movement, Greenpeace etc etc. to fight this through judicial review and the EU courts if it ever gets approved. If nothing else us environmentalists need to club together and throw so much red tape and so many "spanners in the wheels" that Trump just gives up and clears off.
94

Sedov,

Scotland 11/06/2008 13:43:06
#88 Huntly loon - what a load of rubbish you write. you adopt the worst kind of sophistry by stereotyping people. do you know any real socialists? is every environmentalist like you describe? do most people just oppose the SNP just for the sake of it? Is it ok if I call you a highland bumkin - the answer to all, for any fair minded person is NO! And for the record as a socialist I support the creation of real jobs and real wages but each proposal has , like this one, to be scrutinised because of the history of carpetbaggers and such like in the past and if found wanting, then we go on to something else - anything wrong with that?
95

Davethewave,

San Diego 11/06/2008 13:46:13
As an American with Scottish ansestry, I will say this. If this is a Historic site with lots of tradition I would fight it. I would not sell St. Andrews, for example. (Wasn't it already sold?)

If, however, it is an undistiguished peice of the coastline (of which there is a lot) I can't see why this is bad for Scottland.

They only concern I would have is that immigrants will be brought in to do the work on the cheap. Make sure they pay normal wages to Scottish citiens.

Best of luck to you.

96

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 13:46:14
#100 Luckily we don't live in a country where an (often "ignorant of the bigger issues involved") majority automatically wins when the thing they support contravenes rules and laws. You can equally argue that 90% of the British public want to bring back hanging but I can assure you that will never happen either.

So this whole thing can be held up long enough to force the investors to just give it up as a waste of their time.
97

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 13:47:31
Mikko #99 is letting his eco-Nazi colours show. No respect whatsoever for the democratic wishes of 90% of the people. No slightest interest in human freedom. Merely another threat by these parasites to try to deprive ordinary people of a living so that they can continue to get the subsidies they want.

Why do we put up with these aggressive beggars?
98

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 13:49:44
Thanks Mikko 104 for confirming what an antidemocratic parasite you are.
99

,

11/06/2008 13:50:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
100

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 11/06/2008 13:51:56
I never said that all socialists, environmentalists or anti-SNP objected to the Trump project. What I did say all objectors tend to fall into one or other of those categories. What they all have in common (the objectors that is) is that economic benefit is nowhere in their calculations.
101

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 14:02:40
#106 Personal insults. The last refuge of someone who has lost the argument. Nice meeting you too Neil.

#108 If economic calculation were allowed to govern everything (and I appreciate you do not appear to be making that argument) then we would have no need for a planning system, SSSIs, SNH, SEPA, Historic Scotland or indeed government itself. We could just have Neil's (#105) 90% lynch mob enforcing their anarchy on the rest of us and destroying our whole environment for the sake of a few unskilled low-paid jobs. Goodness knows they have already had a good bash at destroying the whole world already. Time to stop them.
102

Buttress,

11/06/2008 14:03:35
Well, those who think that declaring a SSI and then spoiling it is OK maybe should think about that next time they are mugged and no-one gives a damn, the law is there to be broken, presumably.

103

puskas,

East kilbride 11/06/2008 14:09:56
What will happen to the pollution that lies in the sand/dunes.

It doesn't strike me as an area that is compatible for all forms of wildlife..

For anyone who wishes to debate this area as some sort of mystical habitat they ought to look more deeply into things like oil pollution... What seems to be a major development for the area seems to be handicapped by a few parka types that wished the 5ml m8 extension stopped.
104

puskas,

East kilbride 11/06/2008 14:16:22
No103,

"Wise words"

Also to the board.......

All these experts who actually have little knowledge on most matters. Let their belly's rumble.

They must get a fright if they do have the courage to look in the mirror in the morning...
105

Buttress,

11/06/2008 14:30:19
Not only is the development environmentally bad, it's architecturally not been hugely appreciated either:

A+DS Criticise Design
Architecture and Design Scotland criticise Trump Organisation's concept designs:

Head of Design Review at ADS, Angela Williams, said: "Should a world-class golf facility be located in such a sensitive landscape, it needs to be realised through an exemplary design process to secure a built development and reformed landscape of exceptionally-high quality. We do not see such an aspiration in the designs as currently submitted.

"They would not only have a negative impact on an area of high landscape value but would also devalue the Scottish architectural tradition that they attempt to emulate. We consider that an outline planning application should not be approved on the basis of the information submitted.

"We do not believe that the designs submitted are of sufficiently high quality for this unique location, for a project with such an international profile, or for Scotland as a whole."
030907
106

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 14:30:47
I note that when I asked if anybody opposed on allegedly environmental grounds could, without looking it up (or merely linking) could say what was the basis for calling it a site of scientific interest or how many scientific examinations had been made recently no one person could. (1 did put up a liink but couldn't or wouldn't say in his own words which puts the top hat on it)

The fact is that those who want to stop progress in the name of "environmentalism" almost uniformly (100% on here) know & care nothing about the environment but are merely Luddites flying false colours.
107

Mikko,

11/06/2008 14:32:55
#103 from San Diego. Your post shows exactly why we don't want Americans telling us how to manage our environment and planning system. Your own country is hardly a shining example in these areas.

Your comment "The only concern I would have is that immigrants will be brought in to do the work on the cheap. Make sure they pay normal wages to Scottish citiens."

In this country the law is not allowed to discriminate between legal immigrants and British citizens. For your information there is (as of yet) no such thing on earth as a Scottish citizen.
108

Mist001,

Marseille 11/06/2008 14:44:07
It's only a matter of time before he says 'stuff it' and takes his plans somewhere else. I'me starting to think the same way myself, why is he bothering? If a handful of politically ambitious Aberdonians don't want it, then why not take it elsewhere?

This can't be worth his hassle and if he does take his plans to England or Ireland, then it's an extremely hollow 'victory' for them and shameful for Scotland as a whole.

Michael.
109

Buttress,

11/06/2008 15:03:12
Neil - you are sadly misjudging people and their knowledge I feel.

I am very aware of why it's an SSI, and also that it's basically a poor quality development which is simply designed to make the maximum for Trump. Scotland is big enough to recover if he takes his ball and plays elswhere. In the long term, it will be Scotland's gain.
110

Zambo,

11/06/2008 15:06:22
# 116

I'm Scottish, a citizen and on this earth.
111

Sue E,

Inverurie 11/06/2008 15:06:25
"DONALD Trump yesterday claimed his status as a celebrity and the world's best-known tycoon had prevented him getting speedy approval for his ambitious plan to build the world's greatest golf resort in Scotland."

I think he must be mistaken, it was his reputation, and record of bankruptcies, as well as his cheesy status as a 'celebrity', that have prevented him getting speedy approval - and let us hope that it will prevent him getting approval at all.
112

Buttress,

11/06/2008 15:10:54
I think he didn't get instant approval as we have in the UK a planning system, which is being gone through. It's thorough, basically democratic and based on law and national policies...

113

brownlie,

11/06/2008 15:11:02
109 Mikko

"Personal insults. The last refuge of someone who has lost the argument"

By personally insulting me for my "ineptitude in English and puny attempts... is irritating " does that mean that you have lost the argument?
114

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 15:20:46
#116 Shurrrrly there is not another passport freak in these forums? If you have a UK passport look at it; you are a British citizen. Scottish citizens don't yet exist in law so you might be Scottish and a citizen but you are not legally a "Scottish citizen". Or perhaps you can point me to a website where I can obtain a Scottish passport application?
115

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 15:22:25
Buttress 118 who went to the trouble of actively proving unable to answer the question & the others who passively did I think my point proven.

"Environmentalism" is almost entirely a false flag for Luddites parasites, who know & care little or nothing for the environment but could never convince people if open on their real agenda.
116

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 15:24:20
Sorry #123 was for #119. This forum moves too fast these days.
117

Zambo,

11/06/2008 15:24:29
# 120

So they were judging the man and not the plan, well thanks for clearly that up Sue.

#123

Whit are yi on aboot ya loon?
118

we the people,

11/06/2008 15:27:48
if it is to be built, there should be a stipulation that there's 50% or more social housing. Risk is this will turn the commons into a ghetto for rich tourists. All profits back to America, local businesses won't benefit as far as i can see. a few service jobs (probably seasonal) for the locals. And a resort designed with the tastes of wealthy, middle aged american golfers in mind.
And trump's barnet is ridiculous.
119

Silence of the Yams,

11/06/2008 15:29:33
I agree with Trump and hope he succeeds.
120

Buttress,

11/06/2008 15:30:47
Neil - truthfully, you haven't much idea.

I am aware of what an SSI is, and why the area is so designated, I am no stranger to the protection of the built and natural environment, the laws and planning policies there to protect them, and indeed public inquiries, and calling people 'Luddites' etc isn't really relevant, is it?

121

Mikko,

#124 11/06/2008 15:32:29
What is the point of your question Neil? Environmentalists know why we object to the site. It will destroy the unique chance to observe a unique ancient sand dune system and how it interacts with the area and the sea and wildlife around it. That may help untold future conservation projects and even the study into sustainable wave power systems etc. Then there is the impact on the environment by "stabilising" the sand dunes to keep the sand from blowing over Trumpty's golfers and making an even worse mess of his hair. But the dune system will be destroyed in the process. Then there are the ramblers who'll be told to ********* off when they try to walk in the area.

Neil, Trumpty's own Environmental Impact Assessment says it will have a major adverse impact on the existing environment. Have you read it?

What gives us the right to deny future generations access to this wonderful site? If Trumpty wanted to help he would make a charitable gift to cleaning it up, preserving it and studying it. That would be a far better "memorial" for his mother - as he claims this scam is.
122

Buttress,

11/06/2008 15:36:34
Thank you Mikko. Lucid and I agree about the scam. He's not in it to help Scotland.
123

geriatric swampi,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 15:36:46
I am a golfer and Mr Trump seems to be ignorant of the"Right to roam " laws. Anyone has the right to walk across a golf course providing they do not interrupt the players who are playing the game. In other words they can walk across the course providing they take care in doing so.Can't see Mr Trump agreeing to this
happening,so where does he go from here.
124

Buttress,

11/06/2008 15:44:40
Unfortunately, Mr Trump sems to be unaware of a great deal regarding the laws of the land, he seems to feel if he blusters enough that's all that's required.

It's a poor quality development, the impact of which, if it happens, will be felt for all eternity, sadly. Once the land is developed, it can't be undone.
125

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 15:59:20
So Buttress has TWICE been unable to say what his SSI totem is actually about. Proves the eco-fascist agenda is about Ludditism not the environment.
126

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/06/2008 16:06:33
Mebbe if he took more care of appearance...
127

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:08:33
Proves you haven't much idea really, Neil,although your assertions are amusing.

OK then Neil - tell us about the architectural merit of this proposed development. Tell us what a SSI is, and why we shouldn't bother our pretty little heads about protecting this one.




128

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/06/2008 16:11:20
15 - "affordable hooses" - the great carrot mirage of our times
129

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:22:40
Usually means cheap, nasty and of course something required to gain approval for a development. Is there such a housing shortage in the area? What is the planning gain to be had from this development? What can override the destruction of a SSI and bad quality architecture?
130

an interested party,

11/06/2008 16:38:47
only 138 rants today
trumps popularity must be slipping
:-)
131

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:40:07
140 now.
132

Opinionated Deb,

notfubar@hotmail.com 11/06/2008 16:42:28
I was in Puerto Rico last week and Trump is creating a golf course there also. Were we speaking of Trump heritage?
133

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:43:11
Really? What's his family connection there? :-)

134

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 16:45:09
Buttress,

You present as a 'roundhead' with your obsession with laws and regulations. Your wearisome mantra is merely a substitute for serious thought.

Planning regulations are not immutable, nor are they infallible. If they clash directly with the public interest as may be the case here, it causes a degree of general concern.

Hence the need for an impartial inquiry to weigh the environmental issues against the potential beneficial economic and social outcomes. It should be transparent and an exercise in reason, which I'm hoping it will be.
135

ddmc,

11/06/2008 16:49:29
#6 & #8 , copying each other or are you the same person eh richard
136

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 16:49:32
#142 Maybe one of his ex-wives has a grandmother from there?! He'll find some sham of a reason.

I see the BBC news website is now reporting that he is interested in putting cash into Lews Castle on the Isle of Lewis - naturally to make it into a rich people's exclusive hotel resort. There is no end to the ghetto-isation he would bring to Scotland if we let his slick shiny salesman's shoe through our door.
137

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 16:50:06
5 times & Buttress (or any other self styled "environmentalist") is STILL unable to say what the SSI they is so important that it is worth losing £1 billion investment for is actually about.

Can there be any possible honest doubt that the overwhelming majority neither know nor care & are merely Luddites posing as "environmentalists". Is there a single opponent on this thread who is 1,000th as much of a true environmentalist as I?
138

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:51:27
Actually, I appreciate why we have planning laws, and I appreciate the weight given to them, and I appreciate when 'public interest' is being protested when in fact it's private gain. But then I'm no stranger to planning.

Deriding people is no subtitute for a sound argument.
139

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:53:00
Neil dear - where have I self-styled myself an 'environmentalist'?

My, but you do get in such a lather!

140

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:54:57
'I see the BBC news website is now reporting that he is interested in putting cash into Lews Castle on the Isle of Lewis - naturally to make it into a rich people's exclusive hotel resort. There is no end to the ghetto-isation he would bring to Scotland if we let his slick shiny salesman's shoe through our door.'

Odd really, can't be that he sees he needs some positive PR and that he thinks that will sway the inquiry?
141

geekpie,

11/06/2008 16:54:57
#132 is right: under the Land Reform Act, you can walk around on golf courses. Not sure about the greens, but anywhere else.
142

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 16:58:06
#146 Neil, which part of my post #130 do you not understand? I can try to re-write it in simpler language with shorter words if you need me to.

I do like your joke about you being an environmentalist. It was a joke wasn't it?!
143

Buttress,

11/06/2008 16:59:05
Well, I understood it... but surely it didn't, at this point, require spelling out why it's a SSI?

144

Jock Wilson,

inverness 11/06/2008 17:01:10
Buttress,

You can't answer his question because you are indeed a johnny one note clinging to your brainless position that planning laws are inviolable.

It is perfectly reasonable to weigh the importance of an SSSI against the public interest as represented by this investment.

It is not reasonable, however, to deny the legitimacy of this process by incanting endlessly that because it is an SSSI it cannot be considered for development.

Answer Neil's question.
145

Buttress,

11/06/2008 17:03:00
Oh dear - more insults.

I understand planning laws, although it seems many - including Trump - are rather ignorant of them.


146

Myosotis,

Kincards. 11/06/2008 17:03:17
98:

Your memory is pretty bad because I also remember what happened here when oil was found.

The oil companies co-operated with the environmentalists to everyone`s satisfaction.

The pipelines came, St Fergus got built. The environment survived with negligible change.

Donald Trump doesn`t even co-operate with his own staff, let alone the council or the conservation organisations.
147

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 17:08:08
155,

Ah the walking memorandum is back. Actually for once I am not mistaken in my memories of that period as I was involved directly.

Go and read today's Times and the contribution from Magnus Linklater who also recalls the 1970s when the environmentalists were arguing by assertion only.

Try Gingko Balboa, Myosotis
148

Buttress,

11/06/2008 17:12:28
156: do you mean

'Ginkgo Biloba (Scientific Name: Ginkgo Biloba) Maiden Hair Tree - Fossil Tree - Kew Tree - Silver Apricot


Parts Used: Leaves of he Ginkgo tree. The leaf is used to prepare remedies not the seed, nut or fruit

Uses include : Improves Poor circulation - Mental fuzziness - Symptoms of Alzheimer's disease - Memory loss - Vertigo - Ringing in ears - Enhances circulation to brain, heart, limbs, ears & eyes.

Effectiveness: One of the world's best studied herbs: Hundreds of scientific studies published documenting its complex & varied effects
Benefits: Has potent antioxidant effects - Used to treat: cerebral insufficiency, senile dementia, & Alheimer's disease. May reduce cardiovascular risks.Peripheral arterial disease & certain eye and ear disorders. Said to improve memory & other cognitive functions'

if so, possibly you need to try it?

:-)
149

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 17:13:23
155 Again,

You did succeed in making me laugh though. You hardly notice the terminal at St Fergus when you drive past as it is so sympathetic to the environment (largely dunes) Almost invisible even to the naked eye.

If that is your idea of environmental harmony, then Trump would have enough latitude to replicate Birmingham's Spaghetti Junction at Menie.
150

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 17:15:59
157,

Thanks. I had forgotten all about that one. I'll bet you didn't even have to look it up either. Such formidable erudition.
151

brownlie,

11/06/2008 17:17:20
145 Mikko

Lews Castle is to be a hotel and museum - not a rich peoples exclusive hotel resort.

Good luck with your environmental issues but I feel that the result of the impartial enquiry will not please you on this issue.
152

Buttress,

11/06/2008 17:17:46
Yes, but I'm wasted here.

Bilboa - nothing to do with the tree or the herb.
153

Buttress,

11/06/2008 17:19:31
How about the architectural issues then? The fact it's awful?

154

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 17:50:06
That is 14 times you have refused to answer the question now Butt. Moreover neither has ANY other eco-fascist.

Mikko 151 I understand your previous post perfectly. You made absloutely no attempt whatsoever to answer the question & clearly can't.

Clearly like the rest of the parasitical eco-fascists you do not actually care in the tiniest degree about the environment. On that basis perhaps saying I am 1,000 times more concerned with the environment than you was an unjustified understatement. How about 1,000 times more than the entire party of "Green" fascist parasites put together?
155

Buttress,

11/06/2008 17:53:08
Neil - I say this gently - you are a bore. Do try not to be, there's a good lad. Off the floor, stop kicking heels as we won't do as we are told.

I'll tell you what - you tell us what is of architectural merit about this scheme, eh?

You show us yours...
156

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 17:56:04
I must admit I had initially thought that, after a couple of hours of bluster SOMEBODY, willing to go to the barricades to defend this SSI, would actually have been able to look up what it was ;-)
157

Buttress,

11/06/2008 17:57:17
But we know what it is Neil... we aren't idiots, unlike some...
158

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 17:58:08
The Guardian reported today that "But [Trump] was exposed, and several times seemed to lose his cool - but only just. Under questioning by David Tyldesley, the planner hired by the RSPB and the Scottish Wildlife Trust, Trump was forced to admit he had read none of the expert environment reports at the heart of the inquiry."

That speaks for the man's arrogance and indifference to the environment.

The Telegraph today calls his whole scheme a "monstrosity" that most people in Aberdeen detest.

Everywhere you look right-minded people are coming out against this man and his devil's gold. Scotland has a soul and it's not for sale.
159

Buttress,

11/06/2008 17:58:09
Now - about the architecture... do tell us why it should be built despite the fact it's grim...
160

Buttress,

11/06/2008 18:00:24
I'm not unuused to public inquiries, and I thought Mr T might just have blustered too far...
161

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 18:09:26
#163 Neil calls me and my ilk "green fascist parasites". I have nothing personal to make out of Trump either getting or not getting permission to build. I don't even live within 100 miles of the proposed golf course. So how does that make me a parasite? I thought a parasite was something that lived off a host? I also thought a fascist was somebody who is completely intolerant of any other views and wants to silence them by shouting abuse or worse.

Now while I don't presume to know Neil well enough to call him a parasite, his intolerance and sometimes extremely angry language directed at us environmentalists makes me wonder about his own views and/or support of fascism.

Now Neil, be a pet and answer Buttress' question.
162

Buttress,

11/06/2008 18:16:41
Oh, but the words sounded grand! The sort of thing I suppose I might have thrown at someone I didn't agree with when I was - ooooh, about fifteen.

I've just read the Guardian report. Interesting. One thing I have learned about public inquiries is that it's best to know what you are talking about, and to have read all the documentation thoroughly.

Now Neil - we understand all about why these dunes are special, tell us why Mr T should be allowed to build this development? What's special about the architecture?

163

Kiltie Kiltie Caldbum,

3 sters up 11/06/2008 18:26:22
When they open the place I'll come with my bagpipes as long as it's no windy.
164

Neil,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 18:31:27
17 times Butt has been unable to answer the question.

Mikko you earlier expressed your contempt for democracy & the right of the people of Aberdeenshire (of whom I am unsurprised to see you are not one) to have Trump's investment. post 104 "Luckily we don't live in a country where an (often "ignorant of the bigger issues involved") majority automatically wins". Clearly your newfound claim to be a democrat rather than a fascist merely represents the standard of honesty to be expected from you "Greens".

That your entire movement costs this country many £10s of billions in direct costs & at least £100s of billions in lost growth each year qualifies you to be described, with exagerated politeness, as parasites.

The answer to Butt's question is that there is absolutely no reason why Trump, or anybody else, should have to conform to Butt's ideas of taste, architectural or otherwise. This is known as individual freedom & unlike fascism, I consider it a good idea.

If I didn't perhaps you & he would have to conform to my ideas of aesthetics - which you probably wouldn't like.
165

Buttress,

11/06/2008 18:46:28
'Butt', Neil? Is that an attempt to be offensive?

166

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 18:50:04
#173 I have seen no referendum or vote by the good people of Aberdeenshire on the Trump issue and I do not accept your figures. Today's Telegraph says most people in Aberdeen are against the plans.

Far from environmentalists costing the world £billions as you say, greedy capitalists are destroying the environment left, right and centre and global warming is causing £billions upon £billions of damage around the world. Try watching the news sometime and you'll see floods, tornadoes, forest fires, ice storms, hurricanes etc. etc. almost everywhere around the world and it's getting worse. But of course you'll just go into denial now and say all that news is a load of "green parasitical fascist" propoganda.

So the parasites are the capitalist fascists. Despoiling our whole world and ploughing it under concrete and all just to make a few short-term bucks. It's so sad there are always plenty of numpties around who'll grasp at a few quid from their master to turn a blind eye.
167

Myosotis,

Kincards. 11/06/2008 18:52:58
156:

I too was involved in the 1970 arrangements
on landing the oil.

So I know there was no serious opposition and that the oil companies behaved sensibly and could be trusted.

Not so Donald Trump - he even ignores his own employees.
168

Buttress,

11/06/2008 18:57:21
And ADS thinks the scheme sucks too.
169

Buttress,

11/06/2008 19:06:45
Oh - re democracy - didn't the democratically elected council vote against this?

The casting vote went with the status quo, as is the norm.

170

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 19:11:16
Can someone from either the Lib Dems or Aberdeenshire Council please let me know why there are four Lib Dem Councillors (Storr, Johnstone, Ross and Ford) attending this Inquiry as objectors?

Is this Lib Dem policy and as employees of Aberdeenshire council are they entitled to attend during working hours?

It is also interesting to note that Martin Ford has his own PR (egg on legs) person fawning over him at the Inquiry.

Storr is very un-photogenic wild eyed and indeed has the appearance of someone who is completely unhinged.

Johnstone and Ross look foolish and continually ask incoherent and idiotic questions - both being prompted from the wings by the sinister Mickee Footee who is himself surrounded by tiny little accordian players and retired and senile town planners.

What a sad and pathetic spectacle they make and what a complete embarrassement for Scotland and Aberdeenshire.
171

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 19:14:34
I'll make all of you Trump lackeys a promise: many environmentalists will fight this tooth and nail until Trump just throws his hands up in the air, gives up and go away. So accept it - you will never get this golf course. The end.
172

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 19:17:38
180 Mikko,Drumnadrochit

Listen Drama Queen - you've got the Loch Ness Monster and we are getting two golf courses, a hotel and 500 houses and that's that!
173

Buttress,

11/06/2008 19:18:53
Actually, anyone is entitled to attend a public inquiry as an objector.

What is an embarrassment is the fawning over Trump from the locals, really, and the demonising of objectors.
174

Buttress,

11/06/2008 19:19:25
You missed out the timeshares...
175

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 11/06/2008 19:24:10
#86 Nomada

I suppose it is of use to Trump's plans if the area can be shown to be used as fly-tipper's dumping ground. The council or police really ought to put on some surveillance to catch who is doing it. As for the source of dead birds and the species, you and I know where the majority come from, but the cause of death might be taking a different slant from a few years ago. Many migrants cross the North Sea in all directions every year. I hear that a windfarm or two are planned for off that coast? The longshore drift moves bodies for quite a distance.
176

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 19:25:48
#181 Thanks, so now I'm a "parasitic green fascist drama queen". I've been called worse.
177

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 11/06/2008 19:25:53
Aberdeenshire's full council expressed a majority in support of the Trump application. Only the Infrastructure Services Committee voted it down on the casting vote of its then chairman, Cllr Martin Ford, who is now lodged as an objector along with another councillor Debra Storr. It seems bizarre that they did not declare an interest in the ISC when they were supposed to be making a non-political impartial judgement on the application, when all along they were de facto objectors to the application. I can hear the protests now if "Councillor Trump of Menie" had chaired the committee and used his casting vote to push through his application. It should be no different for objectors. The fact that they are formal objectors now should make null and void their previous decisions made in council on the application. They were objectors who infiltated the planning process to further their personal objectives. They should resign from the council now. They should have been barred from the whole process as someone in the pay of Trump would have been.
178

geriatric swampi,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 19:26:50
Our local evening rag which some find laughable to be described as a newspaper said recently that 80% of the people in the North East favoured Mr Trump.However they have never revealed how many people responded to their survey.After all 80% of 10 is 8 or was it 80% of 100?Only a true figure can be reached if a house to house survey was carried out.Figures can be manipulated
to say whatever you want them to say as Mr Trump knows full well when he speaks about the amount of money that the N.E will rake in if his project is approved.
Only time will tell if these figures are correct or if they are only fictitious bluster.My money is on the latter.
179

Buttress,

11/06/2008 19:28:45
Fly-tipping can be dealt with - the appalling development is rather more permanent.

I presume all those local people in favour will be happy to have jobs in the Trump organisation, servicing those timeshares and cleaning bedrooms in the hotel.

180

Senga Jean,

11/06/2008 19:29:42
I agree with Donald Trump. If he was a blitty seagull he would have had a much easier time.
181

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 19:29:59
187 geriatric swampi,Aberdeen

Would that be your dole money then?
182

Senga Jean,

11/06/2008 19:31:49
DUCK!
183

Buttress,

11/06/2008 19:33:19
The fact they are formal objectors now is because there is a public inquiry, and they are expressing their views in the public arena, as they are entitled to do.

Odd really - apparently only those in favour are entitled to hold views?



184

MincePie5638745,

Alba 11/06/2008 19:33:43
Why all the fuss about some bloody sand dunes? Are these people sane?
185

Zambo,

11/06/2008 19:34:10
in #167 # 175

"The Telegraph says most people" well that must make it the truth then?

Are they by any chance a unionist paper with a little bit of a dim perspective on anything vaguely in the interests of Scotland?

186

Buttress,

11/06/2008 19:34:37
No, a duck and a seagull are different. Thought you may wish to know that.
187

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 19:34:59
186 Huntly loon,Aberdeenshire

What you say is fact, has been stated before and has also been completely ignored and has never been commented upon by the eco-fascist, parasitical, drama queen type objectors.

Let's hope that Aberdeenshire Council sorts out its emloyees who are attending the Inquiry at our cost.
188

Buttress,

11/06/2008 19:36:52
'eco-fascist, parasitical, drama queen type objectors.'


Oh go on - you can do better than that surely?

189

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 11/06/2008 19:37:39
#179 Overton

What was it they called 'Mad Mitch's' Jock's when they had to fight in Aden's Crater District? "Poison Dwarves's" I think it was. Hmm! Nothing personal.
190

geriatric swampi,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 19:40:12
#179 Aye laddie and your last paragraph about embarrassment could maybe describe yersel min. Ye canna even spell the word.



191

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 11/06/2008 19:40:53
#198

But what fighters they were!
192

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 19:42:47
My my.

200 posts and counting on a Trump thread tonight.

Where has everyone been for the las 6 months? It's amazing what a celebrity on TV will attract.
193

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 19:43:10
199 geriatric swampi,Aberdeen

I was multi tasking, wee typo, no spell check. I'm surprised you noticed you nasty old tree hugger you.
194

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 19:48:26
The famous Debra Storr even missed a Formartine Area Committee meeting yesterday, without an apology, to attend the PLI and her mentor's ineffective cross-examining of The Donald. And she wasn't the only councillor to do so. Who's paying their wages then?
195

overton,

aberdeen 11/06/2008 19:49:07
200 dido-bendigo,Scotland

These tiny little accordian players flog their obscure music outside the Bon Accord Centre and are known locally as 'The Murderers' because they've murdered every tune they've tried to play - did they perhaps work for the sinister Mickee Footee when he managed the Stranglers and are now trying to help him save his view over the desolation that is Menie?
196

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 19:49:09
176,

Most of the stuff that goes on in these posts is at worst inane badinage. Buttress is now a pantomime dame but you have to admire his durability.

However, I must say that I find your last post a bit more disturbing. If you really do not recall the furore that was around from the environmentalist lobby in the 1970s, then I can only conclude charitably that you are being selective deliberately.

It was all of what I've written and lots more. Again I refer you to the columnist in today's Times who recalls similar lobbying.

That the oil companies did behave with a modicum of straightforwardness only brought into even sharper relief the hysterical predictions of the environmentalists.

Your feeble effort to characterise DT as being of a different stamp from the oil giants of yesteryear further undermines your position.
197

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 19:49:25
#144

#6 #8 & 90% of others can see the bigger picture.

Sand, dunes, the odd spotted throatwarbler mean sweet FA post-oil.

Tourism on the other hand......

Hey Mikko perhaps those of us that support Trump can come to Loch Ness & demonstrate against tourism in your area? After all all those boats on Loch Ness must jeopardize the those creatures under the water...of which a dinosaur AIN'T one.

At the end of the day our views don't amount to a hill of beans, WE cannot influence the inquiry ongoing.

And Storr IS unhinged I agree!
198

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 19:50:27
203 Andrew BOD,Aberdeen/shire

Eh, we are.
199

Zambo,

11/06/2008 19:50:35
They've made a pretty good job of Dubai after they started building hotels and golf courses on that sand dune, it seems it's all part of a master plan to diversify away from the oil business, and that was after getting out of the cottage industy of pearls. Those progressive nations that welcome Donald Trump, fools the lot of them.
200

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 19:52:23
We're bought and sold for American gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.
201

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 19:54:45
209 W U Merchant,Aberdeen

What?
202

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 20:03:44
209 W U Merchant

Please try something different. I'll even buy you a reel-to-reel and you can play the same sentence over and over again if you want.
203

MincePie5638745,

Alba 11/06/2008 20:07:05
Fools - you should be bending down and kissing Trump's ass is he is giving you a £1billion!!!
204

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 11/06/2008 20:16:01
#209 Scottish history is sadly littered with people who will sell themselves and Scotland to any flashy rogue who pitches up and sells them a load of baloney. Shame on them.
205

Buttress,

11/06/2008 20:16:02
The pantomine dame is actually female, you sad bogger you.


Still, it's kept you out of wider trouble posting here, and afforded some of us a laugh.

Time you went to bed though, it's getting late for the wee uns to be up and using the computer.


Tourism? Nah. what will there be to go there for, when we can visit interesting places? I suppose we could go to gawp at the locals and wonder, but that has its limits.

Aw, go on - say all that stuff again about parasites and Luddites - it's so amusing...


206

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 11/06/2008 20:23:18
Ford & Storr...tweedledum & tweedledumber...
207

Buttress,

11/06/2008 20:28:39
As with all the others who think the scheme sucks then?

208

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 21:22:09
215 Richard Taylor,Aberdeen

They act like Lord and Lady Muck at the Inquiry though, quite oblivious as to how totally un-photogenic and horrible they are.
209

Buttress,

11/06/2008 21:49:10
217 - is that all you can say? How banal. Are you beautiful? Are you lovely?
210

geriatric swampi,

aberdeen 11/06/2008 21:58:35
#193 This is not a bloody fuss about sand dunes. Its a bloody fuss about someone trying to bulldoze his way
through the planning process and breaking just about every rule laid down by Aberdeenshire Council with regard to building on rural land. If the application did not have a golf course attached to it it wouldn't stand any chance of going through.It's all about 1500 houses and an eight storey hotel being built under the smokescreen of an argument of whether or not a golf course is a great idea.
211

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 22:03:51
218 Buttress,

Sorry buttface only stating facts - maybe you'd like to comment as to why there are 4 Lib Dem councillors attending the Inquiry as objectors at our expense rather that defending the grossly offensive appearance of that pair of self publicising clowns.

212

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 22:05:36
188 Buttress

"Appalling development" is a view not shared by many folks. Freedom of speech is a great thing, so I'm free to point out that you have a minority view.

Fly Tipping is illegal.

How about landfill seepage onto the beach south of Balmedie? Is that a better prospect?
213

overton,

aberdeen 11/06/2008 22:06:44
219 geriatric swampi,

Its actually about an individual offering to invest £1billion into a barren wasteland called Menie - all to our benefit.
214

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 22:07:56
219

Now I get it, Mr Swampi. The land itself is only of secondary importance to the rules and regulations enshrined by the Founding Fathers who sit on the local Council? And here's me thinking the anti-Trump brigade were on a more elevated plane from the rest of us.
Another illusion gone.

215

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 22:13:27
219 Geriatric

There would less of a "bloody fuss" if the application had been made by a faceless corporation. The headline is spot on.

On your second point, we could ask the White Horse Inn at Balmedie if they'd like to put up a couple of hundred tourists who want to play golf at the championship course at Menie Links. Don't be so stupid.
216

geriatric swampi,

aberdeen 11/06/2008 22:20:11
#224Rules are rules you cant break them but you can campaign to get them changed. Just because on the face of it the development seems a good idea doesnt entitle you to special privileges
217

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 22:23:00
Yet another own goal, Mr Swampi. So now the rules are set in defiance of good ideas?

218

Tom Cambeul,,

North 11/06/2008 22:31:04
trump is a pompous ASS!!!!
219

geriatric swampi,

aberdeen 11/06/2008 22:32:17
#226 Before you make any further comments I suggest you go and read up on Aberdeenshire councils planning rules as they stood then you just might understand how the whole process works.
220

Tart,

New Zealand 11/06/2008 22:34:55
I think "let him get on with it" It will be so good for tourism for Scotland Just make it affodable for the locals
221

Buttress,

11/06/2008 22:35:32
The ADS thinks it's pretty grim. I presume you know who and what that is?

Overton of Balmedie - maybe you can state why you are now being personally offensive about me?

219 has it about right.












222

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 22:39:19
228 Geriatric

The planning officials from Aberdeenshire council who know the rules inside out recommended the development to the two planning committees for approval. Why would this be?
223

Buttress,

11/06/2008 22:41:16
Why is it then that this has been called in for a public inquiry?

224

Myosotis,

Kincards. 11/06/2008 22:42:20
205:

You fail to distinguish between extremist groups and mainstream conservation organisations in your strange views about the bringing ashore of oil in the 1970s and 1980s.

There were no conflicts on anything approaching the scale of the Menie battle.

If you are so sure about these conflicts, tell us where and when they occurred for St Fergus, Cruden Bay and the pipelines that snaked round Aberdeen and down through the Mearns.

As for quoting a blustering Etonian writing for the Times, that article was cheap error-strewn journalism badly out-of-touch with the Menie story.
225

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 22:43:09
232 Buttress/Geriatric

Are you the same?

Who are you talking to?
226

Buttress,

11/06/2008 22:46:33
Linklater - the man who is against the Caltongate development?

Odd that. Conservation is Ok when it suits him.

227

overton,

balmedie 11/06/2008 22:48:03
230 Buttress,

Sorry did I call you buttface? I do apologise? Just a typo that's what happens when you're multi-tasking and when there's no spell check.

Anyway what's the story with Ford, Johnston, Ross and Storr - on who's behalf are the objecting and who's paying their salary?
228

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 22:49:11
233

You let yourself down by your cheap jibes about Linklater whose only crime is to be in the opposite camp from you. It matters not whether he is an Etonian as you well know. He was recounting personal experiences in his article, so how you can judge that to be error-strewn is beyond my feeble comprehension.

I lived in the area you refer to during the early 1970s and can only report as accurately as I can at this remove. By the way, I attended Fraserburgh Academy in case you feel the urge to denigrate my opinions by association.

229

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 22:50:49
235 Architecture not conservation
230

Buttress,

11/06/2008 22:52:45
The Caltongate argument is about both conservation and architecture. Linklater is against it. He's basically a hack selling his views for cash though.
231

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 22:53:17
235,

Butterba. It is probably beyond your intelligence to comprehend people who take up stances according to how they judge the evidence. It is perfectly reasonable to be against certain developments and for others.

As Maynard Keynes said, 'I change my opinions when the facts change'.

PS no relation to Milton Keynes, in case I have confused you.
232

Buttress,

11/06/2008 22:58:21
Jockstrap - oops, sorry did I type that? How remiss of me. It's obviously catching. It's basically that you have no intelligence and your cheap and silly jibes are simply tedious and showing your failure to understand a great deal.

Milton Keynes - nowhere near Bilbao, and no economist either. Maynard was married to Lopokova. Just thought you needed a bit of culture thrown in.

233

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 23:01:07
239 The Johnston press are hacks selling their views for cash also.
234

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 23:03:12
239

Butterfly,

You have enlightened me though with your comment 239. I never knew that hacks/journalists got paid for their ideas. That must mean that their views are highly compromised and therefore I should withdraw my reference to Linklater and his ilk.

You may exhibit the certainty of the third rate mind (Proust) but you certainly know a lot about the world.
235

Buttress,

11/06/2008 23:03:29
Linklater - used to write for them too.
236

Buttress,

11/06/2008 23:05:58
Oh Jockstrap, I know so much about many things - but you are so set in your ideas that you don't appreciate when the urine is being taken.
237

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 23:09:16
Brainless,

So you were employing irony? Please put a smiley or something when you employ your subtle arts, otherwise a chap will get all confused.
238

Myosotis,

11/06/2008 23:11:26
237:

For views on past events, I prefer the opinion of someone living in the area or being schooled here at the time to someone living or being schooled 600 miles away.

On top of which, certain private schools do confer a certain confidence in many of their products which makes them feel their own opinion is worth more the locals in an area.

I have also not been very impressed with some anti-Trump articles which I also consider cheap journalism. Like another in the Times that tells us Donald Trump spent 97 seconds in that now-famous cottage.
239

Buttress,

11/06/2008 23:13:06
Clearly it doesn't take much, Jockstrap.






240

Jock Wilson,

inverness 11/06/2008 23:15:15
247

He was living in Ross and Cromarty at the time when they wanted to build at Nigg. He had first hand experience of the turmoil at that time.
241

Jock Wilson,

11/06/2008 23:16:27
Blankness,

Thanks for your condescension and your patience.
242

Buttress,

11/06/2008 23:17:46
He's a hack journo - not worth taking seriously as his article is full of mistaken assertions.

243

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 23:19:20
247

"For views on past events, I prefer the opinion of someone living in the area or being schooled here at the time to someone living or being schooled 600 miles away."

Except you don't trust local journalists either.
244

Buttress,

11/06/2008 23:19:40
Jockstrap - I have things to do now, I think your mother will be calling you for bed and maybe this has reached a conclusion.
245

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 23:21:42
251

He's only a "hack journo" 'cos you don't agree with him.
246

Buttress,

11/06/2008 23:23:53
Oh, I agree with him when he agrees with me. But he's paid to write controversial views, so I don't take him seriously, especially when it's as badly researched as the Trump article.

247

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 11/06/2008 23:38:59
Buttress

They're all paid to write controversial views.

That's why there are 255 posts and counting, on this thread alone. And we've all subconsciously viewed the advertising on the page. The Scotsman can now ask RBS for more money because the number of people accessing this page has probably exceeded their targets. That's all the Johnston Press want. Profit.

Controversial views (even without the investigation) make money.
248

Buttress,

11/06/2008 23:41:25
Slap my head in astonishment... well I never.

Actually I hadn't read the ad. It's blank on my screen, and I scrolled past the article long ago.
249

Jock Wilson,

12/06/2008 08:33:33
257

Brainless,

I wouldn't slap my head too often if I were you. You just never know....
250

A Crofter,

Western Isles 12/06/2008 09:01:12
Overton - I'd just like to point out that your post #78 is up to your usual standards of self-righteous fascism.

I'm sure that you are not one of those who contribute to my meagre subsidies; you can't possibly have a proper job when you spend all day every day bashing out bile on your keyboard!

And can you explain why "no one ...... shouldn't be walking on the dunes anyway"? Is that verboten in your independent Scotland?
251

overton,

balmedie 12/06/2008 09:35:42
259 A Crofter,Western Isles

Is that you just up? You lazy old crofter you.

Eh, walking on the dunes causes erosion - see Balmedie Links for badly damaged examples. But to be quite honest no one demands access to Menie now so why should they want access after the golf courses are complete?
252

Buttress,

12/06/2008 10:18:31
Still being a sad old posing pouch, Jock? This is yesterday's news. Wake up.
253

Neil,

Glasgow 12/06/2008 11:03:27
Thats 42 times Butt has been anable to say what the SSI, which allegedly is so important as to justify depriving the Scots people of £1 billion investment actually is.

Mikko 175 says he doesn't believe the polls showing the vast majority in favour of the investment. May I refer him to post 104 by Mikko where he said that those supporting this were the "ignorant majority" - are you saying Mikko is a liar?

In # 185 he says:

"#181 Thanks, so now I'm a "parasitic green fascist drama queen". I've been called worse."

I'm sure you have laddie.
I'm sure many people of your weird Faith have & almost all ought to have been.
254

Buttress,

12/06/2008 11:07:50
Neil, Neil - move on. We don't answer you as you are such a tedious bore and won't understand anyhow. Billion investment indeed! Are you havin' a laugh? But it's fun making you add up, good to stretch the brain.

The architectue though - tacky tacky tacky. About what some locals dererve though, possibly.

255

Housenatters,

the big city 13/06/2008 16:40:32
Turnbury becomes a Dubai owned investment, but think of its orgins some railway owners decided to invest in the countryside and build a course and a hotel, and a small place became internationally famous overtime. Menie..now a place many have heard of..

 

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