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'I'm terrified my son dies in US jail'

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Published Date: 31 July 2008
THE Scottish mother of Gary McKinnon, the computer hacker who yesterday lost his appeal against extradition to the United States, is terrified her son will now die in prison.
Mr McKinnon, 42, described as the "biggest military hacker of all time", faces up to 70 years in jail if convicted in the US of sabotaging vital defence systems.

He was never charged in Britain after admitting accessing 96 US military and Nasa com
puters, but a US extradition request was granted in 2006 and the House of Lords yesterday rejected his plea to overturn that.

Lawyers for Mr McKinnon, who was born in Glasgow but lives in Enfield, north London, pointed out that he could be sent to Guantanamo Bay as a terrorist suspect – despite his insistence that he had accessed military computers looking for information about UFOs.

Last night, his mother, Janis Sharp, 59, a composer and musician, said her unemployed son had burst into tears when told the news.

She said: "I am terrified, absolutely terrified, that he will be locked up for 60 or 70 years for a crime that would get him community services or, at the most, two years in Britain.

"We are all very upset, as this is our worst nightmare. Had he murdered someone or raped someone, I could understand such a sentence, but for hacking into a computer?

"He has been an idiot, a fool, for doing what he did, but does he deserve to die in a US prison, or 'fry' as they said he might, because he used a dial-up computer to look for information on aliens?"

From the bedroom of his girlfriend's aunt's house in north London, Mr McKinnon hacked into 96 computers between 2001 and 2002. He never denied he had wandered around the computer networks of a wide number of US military institutions. But he always maintained he was motivated by curiosity and that he managed to get into them only because of lax security.

He is accused of using his computer skills to gain access to 53 US army computers, including those used for national defence and security, 26 US navy computers, including those at US Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey, which is responsible for replenishing munitions and supplies for the Atlantic fleet, 16 Nasa computers and one US defence department computer.

Mark Summers, representing the US government, previously told a court that Mr McKinnon's hacking had been "intentional and calculated to influence and affect the US government by intimidation and coercion".

Mr McKinnon lost his High Court case last year and went to the highest court in the land, the House of Lords. There, David Pannick, QC, representing him, said his extradition would be an abuse of proceedings.

The hacker had been warned by the US authorities that he faced a life sentence rather than a couple of years in jail unless he agreed to plead guilty and accept extradition. Without his co-operation, the authorities said, the case could be treated as one of terrorism. It has been reported that US prosecutors wanted to "see him fry".

McKinnon insisted he had been motivated by curiosity and was looking for evidence that the US government had information on UFOs.

His supporters say he is being made a scapegoat for security shortcomings on US military networks. His mother agrees. "They had no passwords or firewalls," Mrs Sharp said. "They are embarrassed, and that is why they are going after him."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 July 2008 7:31 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

JulesF,

31/07/2008 00:14:19
You know, I think I'd prefer another Tram story than read anymore about this criminal !
2

Richardinho,

31/07/2008 00:14:27
I am absolutely disgusted by the behaviour of the British government in regards to how it allows the US to ride roughshod over the rights of British citizens.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

31/07/2008 00:16:58
"The hacker had been warned by the US authorities that he faced a life sentence rather than a couple of years in jail unless he agreed to plead guilty and accept extradition."

So why didn't he agree to plead guilty and accept extradition? He has said he did what's complained of. Did he have a useless lawyer in this country, or one trying to make some childish political point, or was he just being thrawn?

He'd be best advised to face the music ASAP, get a really good lawyer, and get his time done as quickly as possible.
4

ben w.barr,

north wilkesboro 31/07/2008 01:49:36
In my day, one was responsible for ones action. Has it changed?
5

Guga II,

Rockall 31/07/2008 01:56:01
The fact that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party allow people from this country to be extradited to America, is quite disgusting. The Americans only very rarely allow their people to be extradited to other countries. That they are allowing this man to be extradited is obviously for purely political reasons. This will be Maggie Broon trying to ingratiate himself with the Septics, like a good little lap dog.

In any event, if the Septics computer security is so lax that almost anyone can get into their systems, then they deserve what they get. It's a bit like leaving your doors and windows wide open, then complaining about getting burgled. The Russians and Chinese are probably having a field day with Septic government computer systems if, as seems to be the case, they have little or no security in place.
6

indune1,

Canada 31/07/2008 02:02:46

Methinks Mr. McKinnon is a bl**dy fool or a wind-up.

Either way, too bad for him. He knew the risk. He'll not die in a US prison.

However, when he is released, I think he will stick to the Telly or the telephone.
7

albanman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 02:09:34
I have to agree with GugaII (which isn't often). The US seldom allows its people to be extradited for crimes. The crime was committed on British soil, and he should be tried in this country. I fear that, in the present climate, if he is accused of terrorist acts, he may be tried in a military court (resulting in no media access) and the authorities will want to set a harsh example.

One question: the BBC news reported that McKinnon had deleted hundreds of files in the computers he hacked: if he was only looking for information on extra-terrestial life, then why do such a thing?
8

Matt there,

somewhere 31/07/2008 02:44:25
albanman, that is a question the US officials wanted to know the answer to.

I wonder if the lax security was a trick to trap people who only thought they knew a lot about computers and hacking?
9

Snuffy Ivy,

Somewhere else 31/07/2008 03:44:31
First: This is way overblown. He'll never do time as mentioned in the article: WHY? Because the USA authorities can use a man with skills like this to hack into enemy computers. He'll not "fry" that's nonsense. USA needs a guy with his expertise. He'll end up working for NATO!
10

W Smith,

Middle East 31/07/2008 05:00:13
At least the poor wee soul wasn't subjected to a dawn raid, eh Salmond?

When your enemployed, like McKinnon, the last thing you want is to be woken up early!
11

Magobligin,

Dubai 31/07/2008 06:33:41
I think No2 says it all for me, you people in the UK are pandering to quasi-terrorists in the US. You and your govenment have completely lost the plot.
12

StopTheNumpties,

Bedlam 31/07/2008 06:42:52
:The crime was committed on British soil, and he should be tried in this country"

Wrong bongo. Throw a bomb over the border and murder somone in England - the crime was committed in England. He may have started in the UK but the break-in was on US soil, not English. His mom needs to catch up to the real world and do the match. Divide the possible total sentence by the number of possible convictions and you'll have the likely sentence - US judges almost always sentence concurrently for multiple convictions. It's a shame the guy and his lawyer aren't smart enough to do what most American hackers do - cut a deal to explain what he did and how he did it in exchange for a lighter sentence - perhaps probation - and the Americans get what they really want - close the doors and go after the fools that left them open.
13

Beth Boyle,

NY 31/07/2008 06:58:05
Sorry Mum, but your son is no so bright. He was bear baiting to type such a really stupid, provocative thing after busting into US military computers. Then for him to burst into tears when he told his mum???. Hey the guy maybe can get off as a mental case eh?
14

Beth Boyle,

NY 31/07/2008 07:18:13
"Eventually, Mr McKinnon got sloppy. He started leaving behind clues. At one point, Mr McKinnon began posting anti-war diatribes on the screens of the US government computers that were his targets. He has insisted, however, that he never attempted to sabotage any operations."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4715612.stm
15

Beth Boyle,

NY 31/07/2008 07:30:22
This note he left is kind of damning.

"It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year," he wrote. "I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels."
16

Phil C,

31/07/2008 08:11:52
I don't understand why people like this are not working productively in UK industry, instead of spending their time being a dangerous and expensive nuisance. They could make a really good living instead of indulging in serious criminal behaviour which at best is very serious trespass and theft. At worst interfering with computer programmes can be life threatening and tantamount to murder.

As for the punishment, if his crime involved US property, then he should face the music there. If this country is so lax in it's punishment then it's time to increase the penalties. Either way Gary McKinnon was a very stupid man and needs to be made an example of. This may deter future geeky hacking pests.
17

Toddy,

Macmerry 31/07/2008 08:48:30
Given that most of the world now rely on computers for work, entertainment and everyday life people who hack into or start viruses deserve all they get. It is time for the authorities to make a stand against these people and show that those who think it is fun to destroy someone elses computer will be spending a long time in jail. It is the biggest area or criminal activity nowadays as all your bank details and personal info for identity theft will all be stored on your computer. Having suffered from this I hope he gets everything he deserves and wish the authorities in this country start investing more police resources in catching those doing similar things and putting them away.
18

Bemused and above it all,

31/07/2008 08:56:29
So does the US pick up the tab for these court hearings (lawyers,judges etc.) or do we get stung for it again, then as part of an 'agreement to allow prisoners near their families' when he gets 899 years without parole by judge redneck in the states, does he get sent back here for us to pick up the tab again?
19

Bemused and above it all,

31/07/2008 08:57:24
and do they have room for kenny ritchie? He seemed to have a better relationship with the media when he was inside oover there and he could be a mentor to help this other phud avoid dropping the soap or being shivved!
20

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/07/2008 08:59:32
There is a serious issue here. It means that while in the UK, I not only have to obey the law here - I also have to be sure I'm not breaking the law of the US. That seems unreasonable. In the case of Gary McKinnon, it's likely that the alleged activities are also illegal here, so we could expect him to be charged here. But there has also been a case reported of a couple from Bo'ness who are being extradited for selling chemicals to the US over the internet. The chemicals can be used to make crystal meth and their sale is illegal in the States. However, they can be sold legally here as they have other uses.

It's no surprise that the US doesn't reciprocate on this law. They take their citizens rights and freedoms more seriously than we do.
21

Unimpressed one,

31/07/2008 09:17:44
strange how our hacks can't get off their ar*ses and sniff out this story. a bit more interesting than Amy Winehouses' personal habits. Firstly the fact is he broke through the most sensitive security sites in the world from his bedroom using a dial-up connection. Secondly he seems to have uncovered certain info that points to a covert military/space program that presumably has no congressional oversight. Surely the roots of a good story .
22

Alan B,

31/07/2008 09:19:50
if you cannot do the time....
23

,

31/07/2008 10:08:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

JG,

Fife 31/07/2008 10:28:40
Perhaps this guy does deserve to be punished for what he did but I don't think we should just allow the US to extradite our citizens on a whim. Their legal system is hardly one that people should aspire to, is it?
25

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 10:39:00
#5

"The fact that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party allow people from this country to be extradited to America, is quite disgusting."

Guga do you blame the labour party for everything?

You also tried to blame labour the other day for the recycling initiative that is being brought in by the Scottish (SNP) Government.

I think its safe to say that you don't really have any clue what you are talking about and have no serious points to make.
26

,

31/07/2008 10:39:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 10:43:01
#21 Selgovae:

"There is a serious issue here. It means that while in the UK, I not only have to obey the law here - I also have to be sure I'm not breaking the law of the US. That seems unreasonable."

No - you clearly don't understand the article. The hacker broke into US Government computers - that means he committed a crime on US 'soil' and hence is rightly going to be tried in a US court.
28

JG,

Fife 31/07/2008 10:47:05
#27 Walter
Is this guy a terrorist? From what I read above he managed to hack past your woefully inadequate security systems and left some stupid messages on it. Of course if you can prove he is, in fact, a terrorist then jail is certainly the best place for him. However, do you not need something called "evidence" to do that? Clearly that's not such an important ingredient in your legal set-up.
Oh, and please keep your Federal agents where they are - "finishing the job American style" didn't work too well in Iraq, did it?
29

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 11:10:06
If you read the details of this case you would see that it is far more serious than 'looking for information about aliens' as the hacker claims.

If he was only looking for 'information on aliens' why did he delete data including critical operating system files which shut down the entire US Army’s Military District of Washington network of over 2000 computers for 24 hours?

Why did he delete 2,455 user accounts on a US Army computer that controlled access to an Army computer network, causing these computers to reboot and become inoperable?

Why did he delete logs from computers at US Naval Weapons Station Earle, one of which was used for monitoring the identity, location, physical condition, staffing and battle readiness of Navy ships, deletion of these files rendering the Base’s entire network of over 300 computers inoperable?
30

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 11:15:28
#5

"The fact that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party allow people from this country to be extradited to America, is quite disgusting. The Americans only very rarely allow their people to be extradited to other countries. That they are allowing this man to be extradited is obviously for purely political reasons."

No, they are allowing this man to be extradited because the UK is part of the European Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons 1983, as is the US. Since the hacker broke the law of the US he is rightly going to be tried in the US.

This is nothing to do with 'political reasons' it is because the UK is part of the European Convention as mentioned above, if Scotland was independent it too would be part of the same convention.
31

Teofilio Cubillas,

31/07/2008 11:25:59
#30 / 31 - Both excellent points. I get tired of the student union level anti-Americanism that gets trotted out every time a UK citizen is extradited or dealt with by the US authorities. The hysterical comments about how this muppet may 'fry' is palpable nonsense - even the guy who murdered his wife and baby recently was extradited only on the basis that he would not face the death penalty - a clear basis for extradition between the countries that is well understood and accepted by the US authorities. Why then does a so- called quality newspaper like The Scotsman keep repeating what is only a smokescreen being put up by the family? We heard the same rubbish when the three 'businessmen' from this country were extradited over their involvement in the Enron scandal - 'they'll get 75 years' etc etc. In the end they got three years or thereabouts. Scotsman 'journalists' - report facts or go and work for the Record.
32

Neil,

Glasgow 31/07/2008 11:36:48
This is not how free nations behave. To extradite a British citizen for doing something in Britain because it is against US law is inconsistent with us being a sovereign state. Only colonies of empires get treated like this.

The US would not extradite one of their citizens in such circumstances, nor should they.
33

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 11:56:10
#33

"This is not how free nations behave. To extradite a British citizen for doing something in Britain because it is against US law is inconsistent with us being a sovereign state."

The hacker broke into US government computers - this means that he technically committed a crime on US 'soil'. The country he was in when he broke into the computer is irrelevant.

"The US would not extradite one of their citizens in such circumstances, nor should they."

There is an extradition treaty between the US and UK so theoretically a US citizen would be extradited to the UK in similar circumstances.
34

Whoppitt,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 11:56:17
1. He knew what he was up to and should face the consequences like a man.
2. The US authorities should make a distinction between geeks - politically motivated or otherwise and those who carry out military espionage.
3. The extradition law is a travesty - it should be based on the principle of reciprocity.
35

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 12:16:55
#35

"The extradition law is a travesty - it should be based on the principle of reciprocity."

The US-UK extradition treaty is reciprocal.

The only imbalance in the treaty is that the US government needs only to outline the alleged offence, the punishment specified by statute and provide an accurate description of the suspect sought; whereas to extradite from the US, Britain would need to prove 'probable cause'.




36

Ecco Warrier,

Embra 31/07/2008 12:29:56
I accuse the House of Lords of dreadful double standards here. In the same week that he loses his appeal to be extradited , they announce that the millions spent on bribes for Saudi Arms Deals cannot be looked into.Or should that also be dealt with in Saudi as thats where the money went. Oh I forgot the Saudi princes want it swept under their carpet.
37

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 12:30:31
#37

Neither the US nor the UK needs to provide prima facie evidence in order to extradite a citizen from the other country.

The UK needs to prove 'probable cause' in order to extradite a US citizen - this is a legal obstacle but is a lesser requirement than providing evidence.

The prima facie evidence requirement was also dropped from the European Convention on Extradition in 1991 - so no EU states (including the UK) need to provide evidence in order to extradite a citizen from another EU country.
38

Whoppitt,

31/07/2008 12:32:01
36

Pretty much means that they can have anyone for the asking, whereas we have to convince a US judge.

Doesn't exactly fit my understanding of reciprocity. This is easily fixed. The same standards for extraditing people either way should be applied. If they need "probable cause" so do we.

Do you feel comfortable that a law that was brought in to make it easier for the US to get its' hands onto terrorists suspects could have you in the US on a charge of murder, facing life inprisonment without the evidence being even reviewed by a British Judge?

I'm not.
39

Cheese burger,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:33:45
But did he find out about UFO's?????
40

JG,

Fife 31/07/2008 13:46:30
#39 Yeah1
I'm all for people receiving justice and of course the guy accused of murder in the US should have gone back there to face charges. It would be nice to think that the US legal system will make the effort to discover whether this man is a terrorist threat or an idiot with a talent in computers, but with a president whose foreign policy at one point was "Yee Ha!" it's not promising.
41

Gwnefyr,

Japan 31/07/2008 13:46:58
He should never be tried with any charges specially outside nor inside the UK,since he did not use any of the info he had access to .Yeslearn about UFO's.On the contrary,US Army programme makers should be charged or investigated about..And then,is there any info about the UFO's that he exposed to the public,that we aren't supposed to know? Who are we? The Martians?
42

celtic4,

USA 31/07/2008 14:05:11
The crime was done to the USA, involving our computers, which by the way, I feel should be more protected, but he knew what he was doing was wrong.
As for being tried over there, he was never even charged, so how could he be? I feel certain that all the proper steps were taken and the US did not just run in and extridite him "on a whim". Otherwise, he would have not been allowed to come here for trial. And he won't die in prison, but he does need to pay for his crime, which he knew was a crime in the first place.
We have a treaty with The United Kingdom and we honor it and so do you all. No...one does not have to "obey the laws in all other countries" but technically it was commited on US soil, as the computers were here. He was wrong to delete several things from Army computers. We don't take hackers lightly. Or anyone who "treads" on us. Crime is crime, period. And his Mum should just slap him silly for doing what he did. Saying he will fry is just nonesense. The American Government are not Nazis, for Pete's sake. He likely will get jail time as he should. I am coming to Scotland next year and certainly would never dream of breaking your laws.
43

Guga II,

Rockall 31/07/2008 14:06:08
#26.

If you shut your mouth and put your brain into gear, you would realise that what I wrote the other day about recycling was an attack on the SNP for following the Stalinist policies of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party.

As to this case, the fact that the YUK is a member of a European convention on anything has nothing to do with the Septics. The Septics are not bound by any European conventions. The fact also remains that the Septics do not usually allow any of their citizens to be extradited, regardless of what they do, including rape and murder. This is especially so when it comes to their military personnel. This is just Maggie Broon kow-towing to the Septics.

There are laws in this country against computer misuse. He should, therefore, have been tried in this country. End of story.

As regards the Septics, if their security is so lax, they deserve all they get. As I said above, the Russians and the Chinese, to mention but a few, must be having a field day with Septic government computers.

Next time, think before you post.

44

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 14:29:39
#46

"what I wrote the other day about recycling was an attack on the SNP for following the Stalinist policies of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party."

Hmmm....let's have a look at what you actually wrote:

"Have we not had enough of the Stalinist, totalitarian, control freak New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party tactics? Why not just try encouraging people, rather than bringing in more legislation, higher costs and more penalties?"

Doesn't sound to me much like an attack on the SNP, infact you make no mention of the SNP whatsoever - not sure how anyone reading what you wrote can in any way think you are attacking the SNP.

Perhaps next time you post something 'attacking' the SNP you should think before you post and put your brain into gear first, so the post is actually an attack on the SNP, rather than an attack on labour with no mention of the SNP whatsoever
45

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 14:43:44
#46

"There are laws in this country against computer misuse. He should, therefore, have been tried in this country. End of story."

Perhaps you should read up on IT law.

Because he hacked into US government computers the crimes he committed were technically on US 'soil', therefore he is justly going to be tried in the US.

It is irrelevant what country he was physically in when he hacked into the computers - by hacking into these computers he technically committed a crime on US 'soil'.

Is it really that hard to understand?
46

Neil,

Glasgow 31/07/2008 14:56:52
He wasn't technically, or indeed non-technically on US soil. If he committed any crime at all it was as a British citizen in Britain, subject to the laws of the country of which he is a citizen. By the auumption that his interent connection linked to the US & he was thus there, in spitit if not in body, then any of us can be extradited to the US if we say something hear which is read in the US, which they amke illegal under their laws. That makes us the subjects of an empire not free citiens of our own country.

On the other hand I look forward to the US extraditing some of the citizens who have been involved in more serious crimes, like war crimes & genocide, to the very many victim countries. When that happens they will have the right to defend this.
47

Sgritheall,

Switzerland 31/07/2008 15:03:33
What a country that extradits its own citizens. That's special relationship for you: have Brits sent to the electric chair. But of course Britain is an occupied by the US Army and can't decide independently.
48

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 15:06:40
#49

"He wasn't technically, or indeed non-technically on US soil. If he committed any crime at all it was as a British citizen in Britain, subject to the laws of the country of which he is a citizen."

Is it really that hard for you people to understand?

1. If you go to the US and committ a crime you will be charged and tried according to US law

2. By hacking into a US government computer this hacker effectively, according to international IT law, entered the territory of the US

3. This means that he was 'in' the US when he committed his crimes and will therefore be tried in the US

The example you give is completely different. If you write or say something in the UK that is against US law, and it is then read or heard in the US you will not be extradited because you were not in the US when you wrote or said it.

Because this hacker was 'in' the US when he committed his crime, he is going to be tried in the US.

Where he was physically when he hacked into the US government computers is completely irrelevant because by hacking into those computers he technically entered the US.
49

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/07/2008 15:34:11
#51

"If you write or say something in the UK that is against US law, and it is then read or heard in the US you will not be extradited because you were not in the US when you wrote or said it."

I'm sorry, you're wrong, In my earlier post above, I mentioned the case of the Bo'ness couple. They were not in the US by your definition, but are to be extradited.

http://www.stv.tv/news/Boxness_couple_face_extradition_decision_0804031

Basically, to be extradited, all it requires is for an arrest warrant to be issued by the relevant US authorities.
50

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/07/2008 15:38:21
#51

"By hacking into a US government computer this hacker effectively, according to international IT law, entered the territory of the US"

What is this "international IT law"? Does it really exist?
51

that effin wee nyaff Davie,

EU 31/07/2008 15:41:30
reciprocity - try sain that efter a few jaurs
52

Bemused and above it all,

31/07/2008 15:44:50
#34
Sadly congress in the US blocked the reciprocal part of the agreement regarding extrodition, funnily enough a week after the UK passed it as law on the assurance from congress that it would be passed!
Now call me fickle, but if I enter an agreement that in exchange for someone doing X I do Y, then if they dont do X then Y is coming straight back or being cancelled out!
Then again the US has more missiles than us so maybe thats why we let it be, lets face it foreign policy Bush stylee is 'you have freedom of choice, so long as its our choice'
53

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 16:10:15
#52

The Bo'ness case you refer to is completely different.

They supplied chemicals to the USA which are regulated in the US, thereby breaking US laws on the movement of goods into the country, just as a columbian drugs baron is breaking US laws when he supplies cocaine to the US.

#53

"What is this "international IT law"? Does it really exist?"

Yes - I recommend you read the sections on jurisdiction in cases of computer misuse/hacking in books such as 'Information Technology Law' or 'Laws of the Internet'.
54

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 16:12:55
#55

"Sadly congress in the US blocked the reciprocal part of the agreement regarding extrodition."

No there is still a reciprocal agreement in the US-UK extradition treaty, its just that the UK needs to satisfy slightly harder criteria before the US will extradite a citizen here - the UK must prove 'probable cause' first.
55

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 31/07/2008 16:16:45
It is my opinion that Mr. McKinnon's unwarranted invasion into sensitive U S Government web sites should be a signal to such designers of said sites to redesign their security safegards. You would think that after 9-11 this would have been done already. Thank God he wasn't a terrorist!

The US Government has always been over zealous in prosecuting such crimes, which, in my opinion, lacking proof that his intent was to subvert or corrupt these programs, Mr. McKinnon should receive a suspended sentence and forfeit his right to use a computer of any kind for 5 years.

Perhaps his talents could be used to develop protections which would prevent this from happening again by serious hackers who pose a real threat to the system. But, of course, the feds are educated idiots who lack common sense in dealing with matters of this type. To brand him as a terrorist, in my estimation, barring proof to the contrary, would be absolutely idiotic! But of course, most of the bureaucrats in Washington have long lost their sense of compassion, and along with that went their common sense.
56

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/07/2008 16:47:54
#56 "The Bo'ness case you refer to is completely different."

But they are being extradited under the same provisions as McKinnon. Neither are being extradited because they committed the crime in the US (which was your earlier contention about McKinnon) but that they broke US law. In the case of the Bo'ness couple, their actions wouldn't have been illegal here.

If I buy a product over the internet from a supplier in the States which is illegal to sell here, but is legal in the States, are you saying the US should simply hand the supplier over to the UK courts on receipt of an extradition request. Our friends in the States have more sense.

In the case of McKinnon, why couldn't he have been charged here?
57

Yeah1,

31/07/2008 16:57:39
#59

"Neither are being extradited because they committed the crime in the US".

I've as already said several times before McKinnon DID commit the crime in the USA - Again I recommend you to look up the sections on jurisdiction in cases of computer misuse/hacking in a book such as 'Information Technology Law' or the 'Laws of the Internet'.
58

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 31/07/2008 16:57:43
He was caught stealing and should face up to it.
In this country he could well have been done for treason which I believe is still a capital offence.
59

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 31/07/2008 16:58:12
He was caught stealing and should face up to it.
In this country he could well have been done for treason which I believe is still a capital offence.
60

Matt there,

Somewhere 31/07/2008 17:14:55
A UK citizen thought he could circumvent UK anti-porn laws because he stored the pron he sold on servers in the USA.

The UK courts took a different view and decided to prosecute him for something that was not illegal in the USA but wihch was illegal in the UK.

Seems that this international IT law is very flexible.
61

Florestan,

glasgow 31/07/2008 17:55:16
#24

Horrible Cervical Canker;

Isn't it marvellous how even someone like you can have an opinion on any old topic, even the ones that don't require special insight into sexual perversity?
62

Benjamin,

Dresden 31/07/2008 17:58:18
He won't die in jail. This is really one of those "white collar crimes", so I doubt a maximum security prison with the REAL baddies is in his future. He probably also won't serve more than 1/3 of his sentence anyway.
63

Mark j,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 19:26:03
Break the treaty, DONT send him! There should be public out cry and protests. What is British Citizenship worth if it does not protect its' citizens? Our government is good at giving up our sovereignty to EU and to USA. Brown keeps selling Britishness to us, well no thanks if this is how you treat us. During the Glen Eagle Summit, Bush had 2000 US marines to protect him on our soil. Would the USA tolerate foreign troops in the USA- i think not.
Scotland needs to be a neutral non nuclear independent nation.

64

,

31/07/2008 19:41:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
65

Florestan,

glasgow 31/07/2008 20:59:23
#67

And how much do you charge, incidentally?

Oh, and by the way, is it true that it is inadviseable to be taking Morning-After pills AND diet pills simultaneously?
66

,

31/07/2008 21:52:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
67

Florestan,

glasgow 31/07/2008 22:09:27
...hilarious...
68

,

31/07/2008 22:45:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

Beth Boyle,

NY 31/07/2008 23:39:12
McKinnon should stall until Bush leaves office and then pray on his knees Obama gets in office. Bush is such a fascist who knows what he would do. It sure sounds like this guy is just an idiot who needs a job not a real threat.
70

indune1,

Canada 31/07/2008 23:58:12

71 - Wish you two would get a room.

Horrible Cankers - make sure you pay a visit to the local fire brigade and get yours truly hosed down. :)
71

Gina Gibson,

Wales 01/08/2008 14:47:00
Would any of you be so keen to defend this guy if he broke into YOUR house and destroyed YOUR personal items just to prove that you had substandard locks on your property?

He is no better than a burglar who breaks into somebody's house because their window is open.
72

Jayjon,

Hertfordshire 01/08/2008 21:01:45
Gary didn't steal passwords there were none, and no firewalls.
Gary set passwords on many of the military machines to make them more secure because people from all over the world had infiltrated the military computers systems.
Gary did not cause damage, intentionally or otherwise and his family are not embarrased by him, just terrified of him being sent to a country that can contemplate such totally disproportionate sentences for low level computer intrusion on a dial up machine six and a half years ago. He could not save the Evidence because a dial up machine is more than 800 times slower than todays computers.
He contributes hugely to society by standing up for justice and being brave enough to point out what many believe but are afraid to say.
The current American government is Guilty of State Sponsored Terrorism.
A letter sent to this website by a young girl named Chelsie, told the story of Gary on New Years Eve, standing up against six thugs that were seriously threatening Chelsie and her young boyfriend. Gary fought off the thugs, although he deplores violence. Gary's girlfriend was kicked in the stomache by the thugs. He did not know if they had guns or knives but fortunately his intervention saved the young couple from a violent fate and as Chelsie said "Gary has restored her faith in Human Nature".
Gary also supported his Ex girlfriend you refer to, through a seriously difficult period of her life and she would not say a bad word against Gary because she knows how he stood by her at a time when few would.

Gary has never admitted to causing damage despite the threats directed at him by the Ex F.B.I attache Ed Gibson, now security chief for Microsoft UK. (including the threat of being Fried)

Fair Trial? Not a hope. Look up the case of the English girl Chantal McCorkle, sentenced to 20 years in a hard line American prison for making infomercials on how to make money doing up houses. Her American boyfriend is in an open prison but Chantal is in
73

Jayjon,

Hertfordshire 01/08/2008 21:13:10
By fg. Gary's actions are something which he sincerely regrets.
He is certainly less of a disgrace than the negligent, incompetent, or corrupt or actively treacherous senior US Military Officers, Department of Defense officials, private sector Defense Contractors and Politicians, who were supposed to be managing, auditing and reviewing the US Military computer systems, and who failed to notice or to act on the elementary systems configuration mistake which left thousands of computers vulnerable.

This would have been a bad enough scandal if the mistake had happened and was detected and corrected at the next regular security audit, but it was allowed to persist not for days or weeks, but for several years

US patriots and taxpayers should be hunting down those people who were responsible for such mismanagement or perhaps deliberate corruption or treason, and making sure that they are removed from any positions of power or influence over current military systems.

Gary McKinnon could never get a fair trial in the U.S Unfortunately, the huge propaganda victory which the current US Government handed over to their enemies, by flouting the US Constitution and the normal civilian justice system, by establishing the Guantanamo Bay concentration camp, has ruined the reputation of the United States justice system internationally.

Gary has always denied causing damage, so why should he plead guilty. The so called Plea Bargain could not be guaranteed and not even a signed letter/guarantee was offered.

74

celtic4,

USA 02/08/2008 23:48:08
The man will get a fair trial in the USA. He deleted parts of the stuff on our military computers. Sure! They should have been better protected, but he will get a fair trial. And we do have an extradition treaty with the UK. If an American citizen was charged in the UK, he would be extradited to the UK to stand trial. "nuff said". Don't go on about things you do not understand. We should have better security to keep idiots like him out of our business.
75

Jayjon,

Hertfordshire 03/08/2008 10:49:15
Gary has always denied causing any damage and don't be so damn condescending by saying that when someone doesn't agree with you "they don't understand". American attitude of superiority taking over again. Many UK citizens have eyes wide open and understand only too well.

The US admitted at the time that Gary had no links whatsoever to any terrorists or terrorism.
He had a dial up computer at the time and his connection speed was more than 800 times slower than todays broadband.
This all happened six and a half years ago.

If anyone left their front doors opened with their children inside for years on end and if someone then walked in and alerted the home owners/ parents to the fact that strangers from all over the place were wandering around their house and that their children were unprotected and if those parents still did nothing, they would be prosecuted for gross negligence and abandonment and would lose their children.

The person that alerted them to the fact that their doors were left wide opened would not be prosecuted.

If the parents then started trying to accuse that person of causing damage, everyone would plainly see that this was a devious ploy to attempt to take the attention away from the parents crime of gross negligence for leaving their children (in this case the American nation) unprotected.

A sensible American journalist recently wrote that he is amazed that the US government want to bring this case to America as it will expose the total lack of security and make fools of them but in his words, they will play with matches.

I believe that the sooner they drop this case the better.

Whatever happened to a statute of limitations?

Why did the UK ever allow this one sided treaty to be made retrospective thus allowing the Americans to arrest Gary at least two years after the fact?

Why have America still not signed this one sided treaty, making the UK government look like the fools and idiots that they are, for selling t
76

Jim Magee,

Warwick, Rhode Island, USA 04/08/2008 06:10:07
Never be surprised, at anything, the U.S. government says, or does. The last thing the U.S. government cares about, is the welfare of the peoples - within her boundries. That being said, if that's the case - what are the chances of good treatment, to "suspected felons?" If the British authorities, release this poor fool, to be handed over to the U.S. - they should be ashamed of themselves. It's time for all peoples - everywhere - to unite. I said unite!! And tell all authority personel - NO!!! All we have to do is stand together!! Pass it on> You have my email number and I'm an American citizen and I'm not that proud!!!

 

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