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'Boycott Scotland' bid to brand nation a global pariah

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Published Date: 22 August 2009
A FURIOUS anti-Scottish backlash over the decision to free the Lockerbie bomber erupted last night as Americans threatened to cancel trips across the Atlantic and were urged to stop doing business with Scotland.
The Scottish tourism agency VisitScotland confirmed it had received e-mails from Americans saying they no longer wanted to holiday in Scotland in the aftermath of Kenny MacAskill's decision to free Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi.

The anti-Scotti
sh feeling was fuelled by a new website called Boycott Scotland, which published Mr MacAskill's e-mail address and called on Americans to contact him directly to register their anger.

The website said: "Unless the Scottish Government rescinds this decision to release al-Megrahi, and if the British parliament continues to avoid intervening in the matter, we urge all Americans to protest this action by boycotting the United Kingdom and Scotland in full.

"Don't travel to Scotland or do business there (or in the United Kingdom in general) and don't buy any British or Scottish products."

VisitScotland suggested the website's creation was insignificant when compared with the number of Americans who regularly come to Scotland to spend their dollars.

But the agency admitted it had already had messages from the United States asking if Scottish holidays could be cancelled.

A spokeswoman said: "The strong and enduring relationship between Scotland and the United States will continue, as will the friendship between the American and Scottish people.

"Our priority is ensuring that American visitors and tourists are extended a very warm welcome to Scotland. One unattributed website is not a significant factor, when compared to the thousands of US citizens who visit and will continue to visit Scotland."

But just a few hours after Megrahi was seen stepping on to Libyan soil after being freed from HMP Greenock, the tourism agency revealed Americans had already started contacting them to indicate their displeasure at the decision.

"We have had several e-mails from people saying they may cancel," the spokeswoman said.

Iain Herbert, chief executive of the independent trade body the Scottish Tourism Forum, said: "This certainly means that we are going to have to work much harder than normal to attract Americans over here."

Americans are the biggest contributors to Scotland's £980 million overseas tourism market, accounting for 14 per cent of foreign visitors.

First Minister Alex Salmond insisted: "The relationship between Scotland and the United States is deep and enduring and will continue to be deep and enduring. We can't have a relationship based on always agreeing with each other. We have to have the ability to disagree where our system takes us in a different direction."

CBI Scotland director Iain MacMillan was hopeful that the economic damage would not be too severe. He said: "We came to America's side on 9-11, we have fought at the side of America in Iraq, we are close allies and I hope that this parting of company over Megrahi will be seen in the context of a much bigger alliance with America."

Despite the First Minister's confidence that Scottish/American relations would not be soured in the long term, a different story was emerging in cyberspace.

The Scotsman was bombarded by members of the public, who added their fury to the anger already expressed by US relatives and politicians by posting their views on our scotsman.com website.

"For the first time in my life, I am ashamed of my Scottish heritage," said Richard Gordon from Florida.

Jim Yanacek, from Maryland, said Megrahi did not display any "compassion or conscience" when he "slaughtered the men, women and children on the aircraft".

But Mr MacAskill had some supporters. Carol Hamilton, of Pittsburgh, said that the release of a dying man was "high-minded, noble and eminently civilised. What he (MacAskill] said speaks well for Scotland and Scottish values."

A spokeswoman for the Scottish Government said: "Mr MacAskill made it clear in his statement that he expected that there would be opposition to his decision and that he understood the hurt and pain that the families would be feeling. But a decision had to be made and he has taken that decision."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 22 August 2009 12:16 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lockerbie
 
1

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/08/2009 21:37:27
Americans are so used to getting their own way that they take a redneck reaction to being on the back foot.

Well, tough excretum. Learn to live with it.

Americans like to say that they have no empire.

Then act like you have no empire. Scotland may have pioneered your country for you but it is not your poodle (reference England for poodle).
2

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/08/2009 22:50:15
Mind you, Tom Peterkin and the headline writer are redcoat necks. So you can take what they write with a pinch of salt.
3

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/08/2009 22:52:23
Must change from AOL and all that American software.
4

livilion,

livingston 22/08/2009 00:08:44
just a wee reminder to put some perspective on all of the unionist hand wringing:

"In early June 2007, just few weeks after the SNP entered government, it emerged that Tony Blair, the then prime minister, had struck a "deal in the desert" with Libyan president Muammar Gaddafi on judicial co-operation between the two countries.

A livid Alex Salmond told MSPs the agreement covered "law, extradition and prisoner transfer". Although Westminster insisted this was not aimed at transferring Megrahi home, it was hard to imagine the UK's most famous Libyan prisoner had been overlooked.

That Blair's visit coincided with BP signing a £450 million oil contract with Libya fuelled suspicions that Megrahi was part of diplomatic horse-trading between London and Tripoli. Westminster would later tell Edinburgh apologetically that, actually, Lockerbie was covered by the deal, much to Salmond's fury."

Sunday Herald
August 21, 2009

Presumably the Americans will now also boycott themselves for cosying up to the man/state who issued Megrahi with his orders to blow up Pan Am flight 103?
5

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 22/08/2009 00:09:27
Scotland has too many mean spirited bravehearts like the cod patriot at 1,2,and 3.
6

Hmm ...,

22/08/2009 00:09:51
... do that, Jock #3 - I changed internet service provider from AOl, they cut my access without warning then kept charging my credit card account and refused to refund the money, laiming that I had to telephone them seperately to cancel my account. Fortunately, my credit card company took a more responsible attitude, respected the law and made the refund.

Cut off AOL! (If only for the eminently practical reason that their service is not robust and staff re incompetent).

In any subsequent action for defamation, I shall defend claiming veritas.
7

ih8hibs,

22/08/2009 00:12:04
No one asked the people of Scotland whether this mass murderer should be released or not.
8

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/08/2009 00:17:06
8 - no one asked any of the people of Scotland to form a jury at Camp Zeist either.
9

Diana,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 00:20:44
Scotland as a whole is going to be damaged because of Kenny McAskill's ignorant decision. Everyone seems to be forgetting that the USA is one of the, if not THE, largest superpower in the world. THIS is why they always get their way and if their intention is to damage Scotland, then they'll probably do it. Thanks Kenny.
10

,

22/08/2009 00:21:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 00:26:46


Just because Tony Blair was a 'YES-MAN', We the Scots do not follow suite, why should we?

12

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/08/2009 00:29:23
10 - why don't we just apply to be the 51st state ? besides the UK was almost that when Blair was in No 10.
13

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 22/08/2009 00:43:06
What immaturity and a slap on the face of one of their closest allies.

Us Scots would seem not be without influence in the world and the Americans would do well not disenfranchise yet another country.

14

Miss A.,

West Coast 22/08/2009 00:44:06
What's done is done and all the tears or massive public outcries will not change that. The only thing to do from here is move on.
15

livilion,

livingston 22/08/2009 00:46:57
#10 Diana,Edinburgh

Most Americans, well some Americans who caught it on the news rather than the ersatz Americans on here from Govan and North Lanarkshire, at least now know that this 'part of England', where the haggis and kilts come from, has its own Law, can think for itself, and is called Scotland.

Take one on you take the lot on, wha daur meddle wi us?
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 00:47:30

~10.
By far from being "ignorant" Kenny McAskill, is a Man of Supreme Intelligence, if you had listened to his live press interview on this matter, you might of understood the dilemma, he was up against,
Well-Done!, McAskill!



17

walter,

22/08/2009 00:48:17
The nats coveted Trumps greenbacks now they are telling the yanks to bog off.
Such hypocrites.
Still I suppose we will replace all those nasty Scotland hating yanks and their millions with Scotland loving Libyans and their millions.
18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 00:48:58

~17,
Miss A,

Correct!, We should meet!

19

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/08/2009 00:53:09
21 - zzzzz(yawn)zzzz
20

EPS,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 01:00:11
This, I am afraid, is a typical American reaction to anything that happens that they don't like.

Scotland has made a good, principled, brave decision and I am proud. Scotland did not do this in order to spite America.

If some Americans believe that Scotland should always do what they want and choose not to come here, then that is a pity, but it is up to them. Thousands more will see the sense in Scotland's decision.
21

EPS,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 01:01:53
And as for the suggestion that Americans should boycott the UK because the UK Government did not interfere, I call that secondary picketing.
22

livilion,

livingston 22/08/2009 01:02:21
21 walter
That would be the Loyal Bitter Orange Govan Yanks we get posting here?

Freedom of Information (Scotland) Blog
May21st 2006:
"PM Jack McConnell meets Donald Trump to talk about golf

Donald Trump wants to build a new golf course in Scotland, a spectacular multi-million pound development on a pristine stretch of Aberdeenshire beach. The First Minister JackMcConnell went to New York to meet Trump to discuss the proposals.

However, there are claims of a conflict of interest, and McConnell stands accused of breaching the ministerial code of conduct, the rule-book which lays down how ministers should behave.

McConnell's private office will now be required to investigate his dealings, following a complaint by the Green Party. That complaint is based on a dossier of government e-mails, minutes and correspondence between officials and Trump's advisers, obtained by Scotland on Sunday, which reveals the extent of how the office of the First Minister was put at the disposal of one of America's richest and most controversial men.

Under Freedom of Information legislation, Scotland on Sunday obtained documents from Scottish Enterprise (SE) revealing the government's close working relationship with Trump..."

Lest we forget
23

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 22/08/2009 01:10:36
Hey Yankees - I am McSparticus - bring it on
24

Alan B,

22/08/2009 01:15:49
Where do the scotsman get their information. I really do think they invent it.

They say scotland as a global pariah.

But are we really talking global or just american. I cannot honestly say no-one in europe in either germany or luxembourg or belgium even thought it was of any interest to discuss.

So from my experience alone either the scotsman are lying or making it up.

Even in the US. I think most of this will be a irrelevent minority. The US politicians may talk tough for political considerations but have little serious interest in this. Remember blair wanted his release a few yrs ago and blair did the us bidding. Whether this guy was actually involved or not he was only the patsy and the relatives of this tradegy know that the real people behind this got away scot free.
25

Miss A.,

West Coast, US 22/08/2009 01:19:19

17- Hi Charles

25-EPS
'Scotland has made a good, principled, brave decision and I am proud. Scotland did not do this in order to spite America.'

You state your opinion well. Only, reading over the many, many other posts re:this issue, there seems to be a lot of spite aimed our way and a lot of reveling in this decision.
26

Alan B,

22/08/2009 01:20:12
Why is the scotsman stirring an anti american agenda by making this rubbish out to be something more than it is.

Their support of labour no matter how poor seems to know no bounds even trying to stir up anti american hatred. The scotsman is really hitting another low point.
27

Morag J,

Aberdeen 22/08/2009 01:28:05
Not everyone in Scotland agrees with this Government move to free a mass murderer.
Diana do you not think the Americans have gotten what they wanted in megrahi being freed.
They had just as much to lose as Scotland if his appeal went ahead.
The strong implications of it having been anopther country would turn the world against America as much as scotland.

The appeal should have been allowed to continue if they were that confident so this tells us how confident both America & Scotland were in this appeal they pulled every dirty trick in the book to get it abandoned and for this they have brought disgrace on both our countries
28

Alan B,

22/08/2009 01:31:19
#Miss A

I do not think their is genuine spite towards the US. I think this paper is trying to stir up the issue and create an anti americanism in order to serve their political party of choice ie labour.

By trying to make out the US is going to punish scotland because of a scottish government decision then the scotsman thinks that while people will take an anti US line they will reject the scottish government and vote labour. No matter the seriousness of the issue they really are that low.

I think their is also abit of a cultural issue. Many here think that if someone is dying then releasing him is humane. In the US they probably take a different view. According to reports even the relatives of the victims in the UK and US view the matter completely differently.

There is also the other issue of the extent of his guilt. If it was libya why are we now trading with them and have brought them in from the cold. Why not go after the real people behind the bombing.

And if as ssome suspect and apparently the US intelligence that it was not the libyans but iran that opens another can of worms.

The west has got itself into a position where by pushing a probably unsafe prosecution for political purposes it cannot be seen to be backing down. The whole thing is a mess.
29

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 01:36:32

~31.
Miss A,

Hi Miss A,
I am also very proud of Kenny McAskill, I actually listened to his every word on his decision on this matter, and his wisdom's were of extreme supremacy, soo extreme, some may not understand,

Anyway!, What about our Date?

:)

30

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 01:41:14

Miss A,
Dinner at the McAskill's sounds good for me!

31

Miss A.,

SoCal 22/08/2009 01:42:46

34 AlanB~ Thank you for that.

35 Charles~ Think of your DYW
32

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 01:52:05
Can't remember the last time a murderer, mass murderer no less was released on 'compassionate grounds', here in Texas. Sorry for the loss in translation...no habla espanola...
33

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 01:53:39
Don't be misunderstood...it's clear the where the Scots stand, sympathetic to jihadi fiends. It's sickening.
34

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 01:55:23

~37.
Miss A,

I Do!, but due to very unfortunate circumstances, she is now 'Estranged DYW', life moves on, death moves closer for Megrahi!, His Justice has been decided by forces superior to ours, McAskill reiterated this point.
So!, for us it is 'move-on' to pastures new,...
Dinner at the McAskill's?
:)


35

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 01:57:49

Oops! ~35, ref to ~32, not whoever is ~37!

36

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 02:01:37
No wonder my ancestors ran screaming...jeez, and you'd like us to return...thanks but no thanks.
37

Ruthven,

Bellshill 22/08/2009 02:02:53
I hope many Scots have read some of the rancorous rantings of these American blockheads, our supposed allies, on the various news and comment sites around the world. They read like the twisted ravings you would expect to have seen coming out of Nazi Germany circa 1941, if the internet had existed then. America is like a country of seething, rancorous orcs, disdainful of information, contemptuous of rational argument.

This bestial rage is exactly the mentality that has informed their invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. It is an absolute outrage that Scottish soldiers have died in their senseless wars. This is what America's "friendship" has been worth. You release a dying man in his last few weeks of life and they become your enemy.

Independence must be achieved so that Scottish soldiers can be withdrawn from participation in the military adventures of this abhorrent nation. I applaud Kenny MacAskill for standing up to them.
38

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/08/2009 02:04:34
#9, Diana.

Do you have children?

If so, did you bring them up to accept that a bully is to be befriended rather than be-decked?
39

Brianwci,

22/08/2009 02:12:22
Good Grief: BOYCOTT SCOTLAND.com I've now heard it all.

Never mind see Edinburgh and die. Just read the Brit Nat Scotsman for the latest in absolute tosh.

OK so some head-case has knee-jerked their way to the computer and set up a site and a few other half wits have managed to get off an email saying they MAY cancel their holiday.

We can trust the Britman Newspaper to try and blow this up into an SNP Gov on the verge of collapse hysteria.
40

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 02:13:35
Your morality is confusing...here in Texas we execute fiends. Why is that so difficult to understand, my ancesters were Scotts...it's clear...the Libyans are laughing at you...no more...
41

Danimal,

East Coast USA 22/08/2009 02:16:24
It's a shame that this decision is having these repercussions. I thank those Scots who have been understanding of the position of American families who lost loved ones. And I will not respond in kind to the troublemakers who find yet another excuse to rail on about how they hate America, "the big bully," etc., etc. If it wasn't this it would be something else they would complain about. People like this just want to hold onto spite. The USA could give them a goose that excretes golden eggs and they'd scream "fascism!" because it wasn't housebroken.

This is, no doubt, what Kaddafi wanted. Infighting and spite occurring between the US and its primary ally of the last seven decades or so. Meanwhile he sits back to the adulation of much of the arab world as his prestige grows. These things are to him, I'm sure, a far greater prize than some getting some junior-grade thug of his out of jail.

What this minister has done is bad for everyone. It's bad for US-UK relations, and it's also bad for both countries' relations with a Libya that was finally starting to join the civilized world, as this frustration will now linger for years.

Indeed the only real winners are Kaddafi, his like-minded associates, UK big oil (who I personally think is behind the whole thing anyway), and perhaps the Russians, who already cast covetous eyes on middle eastern oil and would love to see the US and Britain humiliated and rendered impotent there.

I think most Americans are not angry at the Scottish people for this. Hopefully most Scots aren't angry with Americans for our reaction. In my hometown area we lost several people to this act of terror. It's still remembered quite vividly. Also, mind that most of the victims were young, and their parents and siblings are still here actively grieving their loss. To me compassion dictates he gets medical care, compassion dictates he gets periodic visitors in jail, compassion does not dictate he gets to go home for 3 months (supposedly) to
42

Danimal,

East Coast USA 22/08/2009 02:19:53
Oops-post continued, I didn't realize the character limit was so short :)----

(Cont.) I think most Americans are not angry at the To me compassion dictates he gets medical care, compassion dictates he gets periodic visitors in jail, compassion does not dictate he gets to go home for 3 months (supposedly) to be happy in his dying days. Nobody in that plane got to go home for three months and say goodbye as they were falling from 6 miles up in the sky.

Unfortunately, I do think there is going to be a large boycott in the US as a result of this. The state-influenced US media may be downplaying it, but I know what people are saying. The US is the single largest buyer of Scottish exports, unless you take the rest of the EU as a whole, at around 4 billion dollars of goods a year, most of it Scotch whiskey. I was eating out tonight and I already heard some folks at the bar telling the bartender to take the Scotch down off the shelf and stop selling it. Not a good thing at all.

43

,

22/08/2009 02:24:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

Bill Brann,

Texas... 22/08/2009 02:24:29
I'll have Kentucky Whiskey, gracias.
45

,

22/08/2009 02:34:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 02:38:13
~46.
Florajora,

"McKaskill is a star"

30Million% AGREE!!




47

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 02:43:49

McKaskill, Should Stand for Scottish First Minister!, as he would become the Scottish PM!
Realization to this Fact!, is our way further forward!

48

brizerwatt,

singapore 22/08/2009 02:45:22
if Americas friendship is soley based on the Uk or SCotland doing exactly as we are told then maybe it is us who should be reconcidering boycotting them. If their emnity is so quickly turned on us for releasing one (probably innocent) man why do we continue to pay the price for our support for the USA both militarily and morally and silence over the rendition flights, illegal imprisonment, tortue and all these years of misinformation and hiding of evidence regarding the lockerbie bombing. Im tempted to tell them to stuff their friendship where the sun dont shine.
49

Alan B,

22/08/2009 02:47:40
#42 Danimal

"Kaddafi" are you meaning Gaddafi?

You omit to say the majority of UK families apparently support his release. So should a uk/scottish court ignore the wishes of the relatives families in the uk because the wishes of the families in the US is different?

At the end of the day he is going home to die. In scotland a terminally ill patient goes home to die. In the US it is probably different. But the guy was tried in scotland for a crime in scotland and has been dealt with by scottish justice.

Remember that europe outlaws the death penalty and the US suppports it. That shows a big difference in cultural approach right or wrong.

" It's bad for US-UK relations, and it's also bad for both countries' relations with a Libya that was finally starting to join the civilized world, as this frustration will now linger for years."

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. That the UK should again just do what the US thinks is correct and ignore what they think is the difference between right and wrong. The last decade had been driven by a UK government doing the US bidding for economic purposes against what they morally think is right.

You seem to think the same thing. That if people do not agree with the US position then it is some conspiracy rather than people in different parts of the world actually do not agree with the US approach and actually think the US approach is detrimental.

You say it bad for Libya but that defies any thought. The west had ignored the consequences of the bombing for oil. If the west were serious about blaming libya then we would be wanting to extradite Gaddafi. But the US apparently think it was Iran and not Libya.

But remember he is not getting off he is going home to die a very different thing.

The apparent US attitude in this means. That we support you when you went to war. But when we make a decision that is ours to make, you think that you can punish us for that decision. Why in the future should we
50

missing home,

la verne 22/08/2009 02:50:44
Bill, if your ancestors last name was Scott, ok, but if your ancestors came from Scotland, they are Scots. We have a different legal and educational, among other things, system in Scotland. We're not a rootin', tootin' shootin' (I lived in San Antonio for a while) kind of people....well maybe in parts! My problem with this is the doubt of his guilt and the shady dealings. If you become as bad as your enemy where is the grace in that? You become him.
51

brizerwatt,

singapore 22/08/2009 02:52:40
For all those who say that important decisions like this one should have been left to the UK government I can only say that they havnt exactly covered themselves in glory recently in the decision making department. The country is almost bankrupt, unemployment is rocketing and we are engaged in 2 ruinous foreign wars and mostly because we are so closely under the thumb of a supposed ally who kicks us like a dog if we show the slightest sign of having any free will. I say well doen to the Scottish government , its about time someone showed some bacbone in this country.
52

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 02:58:44
Thanks for the moral instruction. You would have honored yourselves by hanging the scum.
53

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 02:58:55
~49.
brizerwatt,
Agreed!, Scotland will not play 'Muppet' to anyone!, We have made our decision on merits that are of importance to our educated related way of life, we do not act as a 'Frenzied-Mob'!
We understand that the 'end-justice' is complete, it is God, that has had the last Word!
Who are we to Judge where Megrahi will meet the 'fiery-gates'?
We have done, what Jesus would have Done, End-Off!!, credit to us!




54

,

22/08/2009 02:59:11
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55

,

22/08/2009 03:01:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
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56

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 03:01:51
Libya could have celebrated his return as easily, gloriously all fetted with bunting and roses with him in a coffin.
57

California Scot,

22/08/2009 03:05:38
Americans believe that there are acts that a human being can commit that causes them to forfeit their right to live amongst the rest of us. The senseless murder of innocents is one of those things. The Scottish courts gave the man a fair trial. He was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment. Why was his sentence thrown out? His sentence was life. So if cancer shortened his life, his sentence was still life. I think the murders warranted his still being in prison. And I am not alone.
58

Tom in DC,

22/08/2009 03:05:54
Hoping to lower the temperature of this discussion, I observe the following:
1. Don't confuse the apoplectic comments of a few Americans on a few websites for the opinions of all us or of our government. When silly things get posted here, I certainly don't attribute them to all Scots. I certainly don't intend to alter my buying habits. Could we disagree without being disagreeable, please?
2. That what I regard as a bad decision was inspired by compassion (which I do not deny was genuine) does not make it any less a bad decision. Had this fellow just gone home to die quietly I would have held my tongue, but he arrived to be treated as a hero and frankly the Scottish government should have foreseen that. When the survivors of a murder see the man who killed their loved ones honored, they are apt to get a little pissed off.
3. One reason many of us support the death penalty is the conclusion (which this decision only reinforces) that "life without parole" for mass murderers (which we are promised by our opponents as a substitute) will not really mean "life without parole". If European campaigners want to press for the end to the death penalty here (and I promise no nationalistic ranting if they do, OK?) they need to consider this as a set-back.
59

California Scot,

this side of Heaven 22/08/2009 03:07:52
and why is Scotland so soft on terrorists??
60

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 03:08:23
"With a hii hii hoo and a hii hii hey!
We're hoisting the flag to be free
We will steal the show, Jolly Rogers go
We are wolves of the sea

Don't try to run it's all set and done
There's treasure in sight
We are robbing you blind I hope you don't mind
We are taking it all tonight

Just walk away we'll count it all
Pirates will stand and the loser will fall

With a hii hii hoo and a hii hii hey
We're bound to be close to the sea
Our captain will stand on the bridge and sing
Pirates are all we can be

With a hii hii hoo and a hii hii hey!
We're hoisting the flag to be free
We will steal the show, Jolly Rogers go
We are wolves of the sea

Down to the core we're coming for more
With a sword close at hand
We are scary and bold chest full of gold
We get sealegs when sighting land

The hook of our captain is looking at you
There's no Peter Pan so what can you do

With a hii hii hoo and a hii hii hey!
We're hoisting the flag to be free
We will steal the show, Jolly Rogers go
We are wolves of the sea"
61

Dixon in Georgia,

Georgia, US 22/08/2009 03:08:46
This was simply a bad decision for all people everywhere, save the terrorists it empowered. It has nothing to do with anyone "following suite". I hardly believe that it was a result of a sympathy motive. To give sympathy to one in this instance was to strip it from many.

That said, please keep in mind that emotions are running high. People have knee jerk reactions such as ban Scotland websites and then people have angry reactions to that. It's emotional. The Scots are our blood and our brothers and this will pass.

Reading some of these posts I have to wonder how we must be portrayed there. Does Scotland realize how many of us celebrate and honor Scottish heritage? Your ancestors are ours as well. Why all the resentment?

Your guy made a bad call and people are screaming about it. Do you do any less?
62

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 03:11:46
60- It's cheaper that way!!!
63

x-ayrshire,

22/08/2009 03:14:18
This has nothing to do with standing up to America.
As a Scot I consider this misguided compassion a disgrace. The man is a mass murderer who should have been executed in the first place. Where is the compassion for the innocent victims and their families. An American boycott is the only way these people can express their outrage. Good luck to them. Maybe the weak-kneed morons who are running Scotland these days will understand the anger their actions have caused. Shame on Scotland.
64

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 03:18:19
Stand up to America, grow some ! Fet a terrorist !!
65

Alan B,

22/08/2009 03:19:13
#Tom in DC

"When the survivors of a murder see the man who killed their loved ones honored, they are apt to get a little pissed off."

Apparently the majority of the relatives in the uk support this decision although that is in part to do with the fact they do not believe he was behind the bombing.


The biggest problem with the death penalty is whether the person convicted is actually guilty.

In many cases particularly those with a political overture there is serious doubt. We had convictions for political bombings by the ira overturned in the past decade.

With any serious bombing there is alway the political pressure to see some sort of conviction.

Appartently even the US intelligence services do not think it was libya and believe it was Iran behind this. And even if was libya surely the relatives would want us to go after Gaddafi and not some patsy.

And then we get into libya did it as a response to the US bombing in the 80s of libya or iran did it as the US shot down a passenger iranian flight and then apparently gave medals to those who downed the plane. Making the whole thing more and more complicated.

Personally the way i see it the guy is going to die a pretty horrible and premature death as such what advantage would be gained by keeping him in prison for the last month or so of his life, apart from turning him into a martyr.
66

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 03:21:13
The more whining I hear from those less fortunate from us living in america the more I think more people will want to poke a stick at them
67

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 03:24:41

It is of Amazement that one is blinkered, by the non realisation, that Megrahi has been awarded with the Death Penalty for his deeds.
Simply he is on 'deaths-door-step'!, Is this not enough for us to realise, that his comeuppance has come?
If we think not, we are no better than Megrahi, and display inferior behaviour and hatred such as the deluded Megrahi did, leading him to his unforgivable act to disregard of lives, that meant soo much for many, and who are still grieving their loss.



68

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 03:25:04
americans cheered and supported for the IRA for years, one good turn deserves another
69

Alan B,

22/08/2009 03:25:48
#60

"and why is Scotland so soft on terrorists??"

Alternatively the west breeds terrorism by not seeing the bigger picture by always excusing our own behavour and dealing and not understanding the consequences of our actions.

This decision is going to do what? Let one guy go home to die. The alternative was to turn him into a marytr and encourage more terrorism.
70

Danimal,

USA 22/08/2009 03:32:01
Alan

" "Kaddafi" are you meaning Gaddafi?"

Now what do you think? Since you're being condescending and petty I'll return the favor and let you know it can be spelled either way, or with a "Q" for that matter. It's an arabic name, so there are numerous ways to write it in English.

As for the rest of your points, or point, no I am not saying "the US just says Scotland should do whatever we want." That's just falling back on the same tired rhetoric. Any government, or people, is going to deliver opinions to another nation on what should be done, when 170 of its citizens are murdered on the other's soil. All this incessant complaining about being pushed around by the US is unfounded. Believe it or not, people are allowed to have an opinion and say "you did the wrong thing" without imperialistic motives. Of all peoples, I would think the Scots would appreciate the freedom of nations to disagree with their neighbors.

71

Findlay Thompson,

London 22/08/2009 03:33:07
The USA has been led & controlled by various mercantile cartels for many, many generations! The American public, in general believe implicitly what the their media pour out to them on a daily basis. America has a bit of soul searching to do; very few of their citizens are questioning the actions of their governments, past & present on their foreign affairs policies. The American population appear to be unaware of the real reasons the USA invades foreign countries. The USA has no right to cross the borders of foreign lands with the intention of controlling the political will of the people they have invaded. Afghanistan, did the USA not sponsor the Mujahideen in their conflict with the USSR? Did Saddam Hussein not receive assistance from America in the Iraq-Iran conflict; wasn’t he made an honorary citizen of an American city? And why does America answer, without question, to Israel? The people of the USA must take a very close look at the way their Government/system operates. A change is needed…for the sake of world peace!
72

cdelta166,

Scotland 22/08/2009 03:34:03
I was speaking to my English Girlfriend last night whilst watching Mr AMG arrive back in Libya and told her how disgusted I was at the libyans waving the Saltire .

Speaking to her tonight she put a new perspective on this she said the flags were there to salute your country for taking a bold but unpopular stand .

And I thought yes you could be right .

Whichever way you stand on this it is a Scottish decision bot a British one .

As Winnie Ewing once said stop the world we want get on well I think we got on yesterday but that was one hell of a way to do it .

Any Americans reading this and having a tut tut should remember the words of their nations fathers

DONT TREAD ON ME
73

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 03:42:09
You'd think American opinion as objectionable as a bomb on a plan...
74

murren59,

Isle of Arran 22/08/2009 03:43:30
I wonder just how much compassion will be shown in Europe when the the islamists become the majority
in - what - 20-30 years?
I hope that you nanny state lovers are young enough
to still be around and enjoy the floggings and beheadings to come...
75

Tess McClure,

USA 22/08/2009 03:45:17
While I have lost a great deal of respect for Scotland...I also live in the real world. Yes, for the moment we Americans are outraged, but trust me...It won't last. It's like a school shooting, we always say we won't forget, and we don't want it to happen again, but then the next big crisis comes along and we let it go.

Sadly...Lockerbie will drift away. (Again)
76

bluepict,

22/08/2009 03:45:30
# 57.....Libya could have celebrated his return as easily, gloriously all fetted with bunting and roses with him in a coffin.

Yes! hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaha
hhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahhahahahahahha
hahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahaha
hhhhahahahahahhahhhahhah!

however,about two years ago the Labour Party had a deal with Gaddafi,had they managed to pull it off,you can bet that Megrahi would have been a free man.
If Gray had been FM of Scotland, he'd have set Megrahi free two years ago.
Westminster have once more managed to manipulate and get their way by leaving the smoking gun in the Scottish governments hands.

But,not all of us are that blind!
77

Littlehorse,

Sydney 22/08/2009 03:46:33
I don’t agree with letting this guy go, but let’s face it, it’s AMERICAN Foreign policy that probably over time lead to these poor people being killed, its AMERICAN foreign policy that has lead to not only Scots but lots of other nationalities dying in the field of battle for them and why we are in this whole mess, so as far as I’m concerned America needs to take a good look at itself and shut it. I remember being in Edinburgh Airport as an American lady protested about getting her bag checked as she threw her passport across the table in disgust... I went over to her suggested she calm down as it’s her country’s foreign policy that has lead to her being in this situation, and she just looked in disbelief as if it could never be.... generally I like Americans, but sometimes I just wonder about where their head is at....
78

Ewan Randall,

22/08/2009 03:47:08
(#71) – (Danimal) – What was so condescending about someone asking you if by saying “Kaddafi” you meant “Gaddafi”?
79

cdelta166,

Scotland 22/08/2009 03:49:34

no 75 Murren

I wonder just how much compassion will be shown in Europe when the the islamists become the majority
in - what - 20-30 years

Pot kettle black

What are the Americans ( Gringos ) going to do in the same time frame as America becomes a Hispanic country
80

Alan B,

22/08/2009 03:51:31
#71Danimal

Are you for real. In what way is it condescending to ask a question and clarification.

I simply asked if you meant Gadaffi how was that petty.

The rest of your post is strawman type of thing. I suggest you actually re-read what I actually said as you have ignored most of what i responded.

You were the one who came out with statements like this was bad for US/UK relations as if the the UK should ignore what they perceive as right or wrong in order to keep the US sweet.

You suggested bizzarely that this would set back Libyian relations rather than deal with the fact if they were guilty and Gadaffi behind it then the west should be going after him rather than chasing his oil.

At the end of the day you either believe it is morally the right thing to do by releasing a guy going to suffer a pretty horrible and premature death or you think it is best to keep him in prison that way.

Personally i cannot see any benefit from keeping him in scotland to die. Both from the political martyr point of view and also from taking the moral high ground. Yes the US does take a different view of death penalty from europe right or wrong etc. I think we need to learn from Arganistan and Iraq that confrontation is not the best way to defeat terrorism. Making a martyr out of him will encourage terrorism releasing him to die in a month or 2 will not.

I notice you also ignored the apparent view that the relatives in the uk apparently supported his release. Obviously with the implication if the relatives views are to be considered which relatives.


81

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 03:56:19
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
murren59 american citizen in the making
82

Tom in DC,

Daly City, CA 22/08/2009 03:56:54
66
Thank you for disagreeing without being disagreeable. You convicted him and we had no grounds to challenge that. But is making him a hero any better than making him a martyr?

69
A few ignorant South Boston and New York Irish-Americans (exploited by the Kennedys and other gangsters' sons) cheered the IRA. Most of us saw them as murders we wanted nothing to do with

80

You mean of course when Hispanics become Americans, as all other immigrant groups have done before them. At least they don't do floggings and beheadings.
83

,

22/08/2009 04:04:56
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84

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:07:08
Tom- Telling us now “A few ignorant South Boston and New York Irish-Americans (exploited by the Kennedys and other gangsters' sons) cheered the IRA. Most of us saw them as murders we wanted nothing to do with” is like locking the door after the horse has bolted, no one over here was hearing your people saying this until 9/11 when it was already too late.
85

Alan B,

22/08/2009 04:07:49
#Tom in DC

No I do not agree with making him a hero. If he is guilty I am glad his going to die a horrible and premature death.

There are few issues.

He is dying and will die within a few months so what is the use of keeping him in jail or a scottish hospital to die. The cancer after all is the real punishment.

The political nature means that we really need to see how the non western world perceive things and not just how we in the west see it when it comes to symbolic gestures.

I cannot see this act as encouraging terrorism but could see those that see it the other way and making him a martyr no matter how wrong that would be.

Finally i have no idea if he is guilty or not. But from what i have read recently the US security services thought it was iran behind it. I think we all know the conviction right or wrong was decided for the court with the evidence shown and what was withheld etc. We all know security info is not released by governments unless they want it released.

As for your comments via the IRA, I think it was alot more complicated and as such it was understandable some in the US seeing it not as a clear cut issue.
86

Dennis Schneider,

Texas 22/08/2009 04:09:45
No, Scotland won't be a global pariah. You took the money from Saudi Arabia and Libya to release him. You'll always have tourists from the Middle East. But I don't think haggis is allowed under Muslim law!
87

Littlehorse,

Sydey 22/08/2009 04:10:17
Bring on green energy! Then we can do what the most of Islamic countries have wanted all along.. to be left alone, both camps won't have to deal with the religious differences as much and if they want to wage war on each other for more sand and dust and oil ,then they can knock themselves out! We won't care so much :-)
88

,

22/08/2009 04:11:33
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89

cdelta166,

Scotland 22/08/2009 04:12:21
Is there even the slightest chance of this thread getting back on topic

NAH THOUGHT NOT CLOSE IT
90

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 04:13:50
Tom in Dc.
Whoa there. You are talking about my relatives. Yes, I do not condone violence and yes, i do not think the IRA was correct in bombing people in Ireland or the UK. HOWEVER, you might have a more balanced view if you had relatives who fought to free Ireland from the UK, which I do. I admire the UK, but I think freeing Ireland was a good thing. They killed a hell of a lot of my ancestors over the years to maintain control. Let's not saint them all eh?
91

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:15:12
cdelta166-Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
92

Littlehorse,

Sydney 22/08/2009 04:16:03
To all those people who are saying that Europe is going to be run by Muslims.. Really..? Europeans went to an awful lot of trouble to make sure that some more closely related people, The Germans did not run their affairs, and if you don't believe me count the war dead from both world wars. They are certainly not going to let a new more foreign religion take over... I don’t think that is a very constructive debate, and it’s just fuelled by fear and starts more arguments.
93

Alan B,

22/08/2009 04:16:12
#85Lausanne

The problem with taking the line the ira were complete wrong is:

1)britain should not have invaded a foreign power ie ireland as such the 1920s ira were only fighting for freedom from the colonial power. Britain did not exactly treat ireland well during that period.
2)britain should not have partitioned the country when it realised that it could not keep ireland as it colony. Partitioning ireland is the core problem.
3)the provisional ira started to assert its power in the 60s after the dreadful abuse by the protestant community. The british army was sent in to protect the catholics in the 60s as the situation was so bad. But with the catholic community wanting free of the british the army soon become astranged and seen on the side of those that they were there to subject and prevent abusing the catholics.

As an aside the british government also was prepared to give northern ireland to the republic in return for certain political considerations but that never was agreed.

As such this issue is alot more complicated and really depends on what point in history you want to start from.
94

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:18:40
stephen light- There's nothing quite like painting yourself into a corner Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
95

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 04:19:25
This is all fun, unfortunately there's families who've lost loved ones, not so philosophical. This celebration should have been in the presence of a pine box.
96

Danimal,

22/08/2009 04:19:38
This is what prevents a constructive discussion here. Some people on both sides of the issue are trying to have an adult discussion, and others can only interject "Americans bad! Americans dumb! Iraq! Guantanamo! Bush! Iraq! Afghanistan! Bush! CIA! Guanatanamo! Americans dumb!" I mean come on, and these people are calling *us* dumb. I hate to stoop to their level but I just have to remind these folks that UK is really in no position to judge anyone else on their history. Places like Ireland, South Africa, and India, come to mind, for starters. Not to mention the Falklands, when the UK started a damn war over a few nearly Antarctic sheep farms. So please, save the sanctimonious lecturing for the boards over at People's Daily. All countries have their pride, and their shame.





97

Alan B,

22/08/2009 04:20:49
#Stephen Light

I think you have to distinguish between the communist ira of the 20s and the provisional ira of the 60s. The ira of the 20s was about reclaiming ireland as an independent country from british colonial rule. The provos of the 60s were largely a product of the anti catholic treatment of the 60s. And from that a desire to have NI reunited with the republic.
98

,

22/08/2009 04:21:05
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99

MaggieMc,

22/08/2009 04:22:25
Not a hardship to boycott Scotland. What products do they need of ours? There is good American whiskey and how much of a call is there for shortbread and woolens? As far as tourism, no compelling need to come to Scotland --- there are green hills and ruined castles in Ireland. And Italy as well -- where the weather, the food, and the people are more attractive. Scotland's people will suffer for the stupidity of its leaders.
100

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 04:23:41
#Alan B
My grandmother was not a communist. She simply wanted the Brits out of Ireland. I do not hate the UK at all and I think there is much to admire and many great gifts given us all by both Scotland and the UK. Trampling all over Ireland was not one of them.
101

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:28:01
Alan B- The IRA were so righteous they dealt drugs in the areas they controlled and regularly held parties with their Loyalist counterparts dealing in drugs too.
102

Littlehorse,

22/08/2009 04:28:10
#97 in that case why does the USA not learn from history and understand that what others have done and what the USA is now doing does not make for popular country.... maybe the USA is not that smart after all...?
103

JohnnyR,

Callanish. 22/08/2009 04:28:38
Let them stay home there are far too many Americans overseas already, just ask anyone in the UK, Germany, the Phillipines, Okinawa, Guam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
104

Littlehorse,

22/08/2009 04:29:52
Stephen Light, you should wake up, birth rates have never dictated who runs the show.... I think your mates in the white hoods are call you mate...
105

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 04:32:06
I totally agree JohnnyR. I would like to bring all of them home. Sure would be an interesting world...interesting more for you than me.
106

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:32:15
Hiroshima and Nagasaki American terrorism on a grand scale, one dying Libyan going home to die not such a big deal
107

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 04:34:35
Thanks, bluepict. Obviously more to the story...a ticker tape parade, not the answer...
108

Alan B,

22/08/2009 04:34:41
#97Danimal

I think most people on this site know that european colonialism is the root of many problems in the world.

Iraq, Afganistan were both british colonies. And we can see the mess of them.

Incidently I think you are the only person bringing up Bush so another strawman argument.

Europe has alot to answer for with it colonialism and ww1 that followed as a consequence and then ww2. Add to that the soviet regime that divided so much.

In many ways the US was isolationist until europe kept screwing up. And the US is blamed for some that is just a consequence of dealing with the oppressive soviet regime and it involved itself in european affairs due to the inability of europe to maintain any stability.

The biggest problem now is the west have become so dependent on oil that its foreign policy is dependent on ensuring that it controls middle east regimes so that it can ensure security of supply but ends up having to deal with the backlash of some who are not impressed by our involvement and propping up of their corrupt governments.

But that is a distraction from this issue. What can be served by keeping him in prison for a month or so to die. Little i would suggest. Letting him go home to die show that we can rise above the vindictive and is less likely to turn him into a martyr and an effective recruitment for terrorism in the future.

Why do you think the US intelligence service think it is iran and not libya behind this?
109

usaCameron,

Washingtonville, NY 22/08/2009 04:34:59
Well, if we are going to act like children.

For the first time since the English took over Scotland has made a impact on the international stage. Sadly, by poking it's friend in the eye.

To Jock Tamson's comment yesterday about only 10% of Americans having a passport, some how makes us inferior. Jock when you really don't have a country(Scotland) and it is smaller than most states, and the weather is bad, I guess everyone has to have a passport.

To Charles Linskaill- Are you kidding you have been the Puppets of England for how long?

The U.S.A. is not perfect by any stretch. The anti-American comments and glee from some, I hope not most rings of jealousy.

Sorry just needed to get it out of my system!
110

,

22/08/2009 04:35:58
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111

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 04:37:44
Ok Littlehorse. have a great time of it. I hope you are over 40 years old. Best Wishes, REALLY.
112

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 04:38:26
All this handwringing...put a nose on the bugge and let him swing for chrissakes...!
113

Alan B,

22/08/2009 04:41:24
#Stephen Light

I think you have misunderstood what i was saying. I was trying to say that US support for the ira was more the 60s variety ie the provos rather than the original ira of the 20s.

I understand ireland wanting its freedom as I explained in #94.

It is my understanding that the 20s ira were communist but that was not meant to be a positive or negative just a statement of their political belief. Remember communism now a days has been tarnished by the soviet regime and china etc but then it was a view giving the people power even if it did end up as a misguided economic philosophy.
114

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 04:42:33
By the way Littlehorse, I voted for Obama and i am a liberal Democrat. I just also happen to be able to see reality in the cold hard light of day.....you are done my friend.
115

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:46:00
Stephen light- blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....fantastic excuse to chargrill women and children, you are the man
116

Stephen Light,

pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 04:46:09
To Alan B,
Yes ok, i misunderstood. Apologies. I never supported the '60s version. I think bombing civilian sites without compunction is evil, and the moral argument does work with moral people...example, the UK. I think the '20s version was necessary at the time...but not without tragedy for all concerned.
117

Alan B,

22/08/2009 04:46:15
#102Lausanne

I never said the ira were righteous just that the provos come into prominence after the abuse of the catholic community in the 60s. That is why the british army was sent in to NI to protect the catholic community.

Over a period the whole thing got worse and worse and got more morally corrupted.

But it is not easy to say one side was right and the other wrong apart from saying the british should never have colonialised the country in the first place.
118

Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 04:46:55
#42, Danimal, are you aware that your government paid a prime witness $5m to give evidence to convict this man? Are you aware that his evidence should have been struck from the record during the trial but it was used as 'fact' against Megrahi? Are you aware that your government officials warned certain individuals not to take the fated Panam flight (which was 2/3rds empty)? ARe you aware that the flight was 'taken out' in retaliation by the Iranians in response to YOUR airforce obliterating a domestic passenger airbus from Iranian airspace only months earlier? And that the Libyans and Megrahi were the fall guys? AND (THIS IS SO PREDICTABLE, JUST OPEN YOUR EYES) that your current President visited Gadaffi last month...........all to do with oil and trade and deflection of facts from the real criminals here (the US state, not the citizens - unlike the internationally politically ignorant US accusants I won't blame the people, just their 'men in black'). So Scotland and Libya are the fall guys here. But the west gets their oil and that's all that will matter. What a dreadful world where the citizens stand divided through ignorance and the real criminals stand to remain in power and make $£billions from it. And McAskill is but a simple pawn in it all, as is Megrahi and those poor souls who died when that flight blew up over Lockerbie (many of them were actually Scottish, remember the crime took place here).
119

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 04:47:33
Kadaffi is having a blast !
120

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22/08/2009 04:47:55
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121

Menzies,

22/08/2009 04:49:25
#58: California Scot said "Americans believe that there are acts that a human being can commit that causes them to forfeit their right to live amongst the rest of us. The senseless murder of innocents is one of those things."

Following that logic, it will be interesting to see when Americans will forfeit their "right to live amongst the rest of us", given the innocents murdered by U.S. foreign policy exploits over the last 50 years.

122

Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 04:49:33
#42, Danimal, just one more thing - most of us here believe that Megrahi, whether he was guilty or not, should not have been released because when he was the evidence that we were ALL entitled to hear, went with him and when he dies we will NEVER learn the true facts in a court of law. The UK and US governments have got what they wanted - suppression of facts and plenty oil and Scotland and it's people are going to suffer for it.
123

Stephen Light,

P 22/08/2009 04:50:00
Highland...you are propagating complete falsehoods. Give me your sources.
124

Mad Mac Reports,

Moorpark, California 22/08/2009 04:51:35
I applaud the Cabinet Secretary for Justice for showing the fortitude to take a decision which many will be unhappy with. At the end of the day, this man was subject to the SCOTTISH justice system and has been dealt with in accordance with that system's provisions. You may not like it, but you're going to have to learn to live with it.

Incidentally, any comment from Wee Gordon yet?
125

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:52:02
Alan B- Ireland was won in conquest not a game of poker, different rules different times
126

BROONISDOOMED,

22/08/2009 04:52:38
so the yanks want to boycott scotland,well lets boycott them
they are golf mad,and go by the rule of R+A so,we just tell them stop using our rule book,never play them at their golf games,stop sending our brightest graduates,to boost their economy,stop showing their latest cinema releases,thus no more bucks from us suckers,stop using their franchise outlets ie BK,Mcdonalds,and the chicken murderers KFC
yes i am joking,why play the spoilt brat like them
or maybe the uk should just take all its troops back home,let the yanks get on with it,but that would mean more torture,etc,they forget a scot who gave them their navy,their national parks,etc,so come 4th july 2010 we wont even mention them,some yanks advocate ,them doing a 9-11 on scotland,yes thats your avarage yank,dont get their own way bomb us,
well uncle spam or is it uncle sham,lets start listing all the dirty tricks you lot did to gain what you wanted,wonder if they will invade us for our oil
127

Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 04:52:41
Finally, it's Ramadan folks - the people who met Megrahi at the airport were mostly students celebrating just that. AND of course it's not a coincidence that he was released at this time in return for promises of oil and a nice lucrative BP contract for the west (that particular point goes back to Tony Bliar of course).
128

Steve Phillips,

Perth 22/08/2009 04:52:57
You say Scottish justice is fair and right in allowing this terrorist loose but it was the precious Scottish system that convicted him. You cant have it both ways.
129

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22/08/2009 04:53:27
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130

Alan B,

22/08/2009 04:53:59
#Stephen Light

The 60s version only came about due to the abuse of the catholic community by the protestants. It was so bad the british army had to go in. But with the catholic community wanting free of the brits the british army soon became the enemy.

So I can fully understand the 60s version aswell. But it was a horrible mess by communities split in a stupid religious divide.

In Scotland we never got the violence but we did have the sectarianism where a football team would not even sign a catholic.

It is my understanding most of the bombing they tended to give warnings in advance so that when the bombs went off the people were out the way. Perverse yes. The biggest killings were by renegrade groups and as pointed out both sides ended up funding their activities though drugs the ira were even linked to libya and Gadaffi via arms deals.
131

diasporian,

Tokyo 22/08/2009 04:54:05
The IRA is very relevant to this. When the bombing campaign in Britain was going on, neither the Kennedy family nor Reagan nor any other prominent Irish-American politician said anything beyond pro-forma expressions of disavowal. Nothing was done about the very active fund-raising--extending even to shakedowns of English tourists in bars--in Boston and New York; IRA leaders were even given visas to enter the U.S. and coordinate it. As if the shrieking over 9/11 wasn't enough, imagine what it would have been like had it also taken the lives of U.S. cabinet members' wives, or the President's cousin...I'm going to go with Jim Swire on this one. Don't worry about the Americans. They'll have forgotten it by Monday.
132

MaggieMc,

22/08/2009 04:54:45
Mad Mac --- puff up your chest with pride. Like a small child (or an insignificant country) happy for any attention --- even if it is a justified scolding. This is a black eye on Scotland and its people. Do not cloak this as "fortitude" -- it is greed. A ploy for cheaper petrol --- and keeping a tight fist on the purse strings -- not wanting to pay for medical care. Shameful.
133

Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 04:54:46
#127 is right - we'll be a lot healthier without the American morbidly obese lifestyle being imposed on us.
134

MaggieMc,

22/08/2009 04:55:57
the Scots will never boycott the US -- they cannot get enough of old tv shows, trainers, blue jeans --- anything that comes from the USA, they want. They would be on the first plane to NY if they could.
135

BROONISDOOMED,

22/08/2009 04:56:39
ps-- will you be getting rid of hail to the chief,i understand it was written or helped by walter scott
so no more singing it,you could always sing hail to the cheese
watch grounds keeper willie getting killed of in the simpsons
136

Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 04:58:25
#133, the cost of petrol and the oil revenues is controled by the UK government, in London England, it is outwith the control of Scotland and it's parliament. So whilst this may be about oil, it has not been perpetrated in Scotland, we're just the fall guys! We didn't want Megrahi released, that was orchestrated by the UK government who are now cowering behind simple minded and soon to be booted out Kenny McAskill.
137

Lausanne Jellies,

22/08/2009 04:59:17
stephen light-Many people’s fathers fought in the war, your reasons for using nuclear weapons are the same as those who created mustard gas, grow a spine
138

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 05:00:18
I can understand how this all happened, with Donald Rumsfeld and Abu Ghraib, well of course, Jack the Ripper had no choice but to flay those poor gals !!
139

Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 05:03:27
#129, Scottish justice convicted the man but that was based on evidence that was given by CIA agent Abdul Majid Giaka who was paid $5m to claim that Al Amin Khalifa Fhimah, the co-accused, showed him two bricks of explosives. Fhima, of course was exonerated of all charges and freed. Yet Giaka's evidence was not struck from the record and used as 'fact' against Megrahi. What a joke.
140

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 05:03:28
@diasporian
In Tokyo...very interesting. I used to live in Minami Aoyama in Tokyo. Hope all is well there after the recent earthquake. I understand your point on the IRA fundraising in the USA. I had been asked to contribute to the IRA, but never did. I do understand that some did. They had lost cousins and uncles and fathers to the Brits. Hard to resist sometimes under those conditions.
141

Alan B,

22/08/2009 05:03:47
#123Highland

It was actually the French that rushed in a broke the trade sanctions for Libyan oil.

#Stephan

"Highland...you are propagating complete falsehoods. Give me your sources"

Consider:
-Blair tried to do a deal to release this guy a few yrs ago and Blair did not do anything with US approval (not publicly).
- shortly before his release the appeal on his conviction was dropped. (the victims families do not believe he was guilty). Apparently the US intelligence have evidence it was the Iranians. But we the people do not know and have to take the whole thing on trust from governments we probably do not trust that much. Apparently there was a good chance on appeal that he would have been released as his conviction was made under pressure of the politics of the day and little serious evidence. (does not mean he did not do it though), with evidence from the intelligence services withheld.
142

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22/08/2009 05:06:21
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143

MaggieMc,

22/08/2009 05:07:35
You reap what you sow --- and their will be real consequences for this for Scotland --- from their best ally -- and from the Muslim extremists who see what a joke our "system" is. Watch.
144

Alan B,

22/08/2009 05:07:37
#135MaggieMc

jeans! is french in origin.
145

Alan B,

22/08/2009 05:17:34
#144MaggieMc

"and from the Muslim extremists who see what a joke our "system" is. Watch"

So you are trying to say what? That muslim extremist will turn their attention on scotland because we let a terminal cancer patient out of jail a month or 2 before he is going to die.

While you are probably pissed writing that, i think you should seriously consider what motivates political terrorism and seriously think why this will do anything tht could make the situation worse.
146

Highland Laddie Gone,

22/08/2009 05:17:37
@50--Ever hear of the concept of one vote per person? It would seem the large majority of the victim's families did NOT want him released. But the SNP doesnt pay more than lip service to the wishes of most families. Stones of steel.
147

ScotLJM,

Richmond 22/08/2009 05:22:18
I am mad as H*ll that the country of my birth should let this Libyan mass murderer go free, because of compassionate reasons...BS!
Lets put this in perspective. On my previous visit to Aberdeen, I spent over $7000. In the future it will be your loss Scotland, as I'll put my money elsewhere.
148

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22/08/2009 05:23:15
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149

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 05:24:55
Thank you ScotLJM. I know it must be painful. However, they are quite doomed.
150

Ruthven,

Bellshill 22/08/2009 05:30:17
It's partly amusing and partly sad that you Americans see everything in money terms. To explain the decision, you develop ludicrous conspiracy theories that we were motivated by Libyan oil or Saudi gold; and to avenge it, you announce that you'll be boycotting Scotland or not spending money here. You just can't grasp the concept that some people might prize their own moral values more highly than any amount of money. We don't care about Libyan gold, Saudi gold or American gold. All of you lesser, more barbarous peoples can keep your gold, heap it up in piles and gloat over it till your heart's content. We'll do what we think is right because we think it's right.
151

ScotLJM,

Richmond 22/08/2009 05:32:33
Oh! And while I am at it. Mr. Trump? If you read this, cancel my membership in your future Golf Resort.
152

i wear trousers not a skirt,

SCOTLANDS SHAME THE SNP 22/08/2009 05:32:42
The snp are a bunch of terrorist loving clowns. i hope this backfires on the snp as everyone i know think the terrorist murdering scumbag should have died in jail.Then to see libya parade him as a hero.salmond and mcaskill are scotlands shame. The snp havent a clue how to run this country. Cant blame the americians if they boycott scotland or multi national companys pull out of scotland due to the woeful snp
153

Bill Brann,

Texas 22/08/2009 05:35:33
A boon to Libyan pilots and airlines, flying Scotland, as no one else will...
154

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania usa 22/08/2009 05:35:41
Well Ruthven. Must be great to be such a Moral Paragon. Letting a convicted Killer go never felt so good eh? Do you know Ghadaffi has political prisoners in jail for 20 plus years? He has a wonderful free press too. The man is a virtual 21st Century Jesus! Enjoy your new buddies. You are much superior to me. You freed the innocent and comforted the oppressed. I envy you. (call me in 20 years, from your cell, smiles)
155

ScotLJM,

Richmond 22/08/2009 05:38:33
#151..Scots also, as you were quite eager to take my $7,000 at hotels, restaurants, etc. Don't kid yourself!
156

Littlehorse,

22/08/2009 05:38:35
# Stephen Light,
Wow Stephen, good on you, you voted for Obama, well that is just great, good for you, give yourself a pat on the back. So did a lot of America. Well when you bang on about races and birth rates you still come across that way. Don't get me wrong, I can't see the same thing happening in the UK for a very long time (an African elected as prime minister, I think America is way ahead in that argument), but don’t make your previous comments and then come back to me to count yourself out just because you voted for Obama. I'm done when I say I'm done, not you.

157

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22/08/2009 05:41:08
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158

Alan B,

22/08/2009 05:43:02
#149 Stephan

"You'll be overrun from internal birth rates in any case."

Can you explain given that

"Muslims currently make up make up 0.84% of the population in Scotland."
159

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 05:43:45
Well, I am sorry to offend Littlehorse. Truly I am just sad to see you all disappear over time. A wonderful heritage and a proud history and i see it slipping away with the tide. i do not mean to be offensive on this. I just think you do not see the danger.
160

Highland Laddie Gone,

USA 22/08/2009 05:45:46
Looks like chickens are coming home to roost and the oil for compassion link is growing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/22/world/europe/22lockerbie.html?hpw

This is within a hair of becoming farcial.
161

Pomodora,

Gravesend 22/08/2009 05:46:01
Today I returned from a business trip to the United States, Pittsburgh and Cleveland, and I encountered no anger towards me from my hosts. On my flight home I sat with an American enroute to a Medical conference in London who pointed to the headline of the in-board newspaper which stated "Scotland Frees Libyian Terrorist" and asked my opinion.For the rest of the flight was dealt in pleasantaries. I am a little aghast at the comments here. Who are these Americans demanding boycott?
162

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22/08/2009 05:46:04
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163

Alan B,

22/08/2009 05:49:51
#163

I support rangers you plonker.

We all know they did not sign catholics and we all know about the bigotry. The catholics we signed had to be kept quiet.

I cannot believe you are seriously trying to say we did not have bigotry in the west coast.

164

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22/08/2009 05:55:30
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165

rickypop,

22/08/2009 05:59:18
The americans are like pre 1939 germans, they believe everything their government tells them.
We are in IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN for the good of their people. Not to get 30 trillion dolars in oil + access to land to transport oil & gas from KAZAHKSTAN to asia.Ha Ha.
Tens of thousand of ordinary people dead.
Why are we not in every country in AFRICA? We supply them with arms for debt so we can control & take their reserves when we are ready.
Politicians, US & UK, CIA, FBI, MI5, MI6,They are the terrorists.
Americans if you are all as stupid as you seem, SCOTLAND DOES NOT WANT YOU
166

Jimmy Le Pie,

22/08/2009 05:59:52
#155 Stephen Light,

You said " Do you know Ghadaffi has political prisoners in jail for 20 plus years?"

Does he have access to Guantanamo too????
167

Alan B,

22/08/2009 06:01:21
#165Stephen

You cannot be serious muslin immigration to scotland over the last 40years has reach the heady heights of 0.84%. Not much of a take over.

To keep #163 happy it is the dhims that are the are the 2nd largest religion in scotland. A much more important issue here lol.

168

Highland Laddie Gone,

USA 22/08/2009 06:02:49
Multiple newspapers are now reporting that Gdadafi's son is claiming the release was linked to promised trade deals. I'm starting to understand the math on the compassionate release voting: 170 American families vote NO...SNP vote 1...Big Oil vote 10000000.

Compassion for Oil. Good campaign slogan for the SNP.
169

Waus,

Rockingham 22/08/2009 06:04:37
You realy can't blame the Yanks for the way they feel on this issue most of the rest of us in the rest of the Wetern World feel the same way your Scottish goverment f----d up spectactularly on the decision so it's lost a huge ammount of credibility believe it!!
170

Jimmy Le Pie,

22/08/2009 06:05:48
Stephen Light,

Remind me again who shot down the Iranian Airbus??

Oh it's ok I found the article.

"An Iranian Airbus A300 was shot down by the U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes, killing all 290 passengers and crew aboard, including 38 non-Iranians and 66 children. The Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters at the time of the shoot-down."

Those in glass houses etc?????
171

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:05:56
Rickypop,
We actually do want Scotland...as an ally in Western Civilization, which you did a great deal to invent. Credit to you. I did not support the war in Iraq, but I harbor no idealistic delusions about a post-US Iraq. It will be a murderous conflict of rivals after we are gone, not the land of honey and light.
172

Highland Laddie Gone,

USA 22/08/2009 06:09:34
Great photo here. SNP: "We love compassion. We love oil."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2601217/Its-the-world-vs-Scotland.html
173

Southside,

22/08/2009 06:11:40
Well done Kenny, you showed great courage in your desicion and have done us proud.

I couldn't give two fs for the yanks anyway.

Its of my opinion that there is more to this than we the public know. There is undoubtably new cooperation between the two countries that could potentially save lives in the future.

I don't think the guy was guilty anyway, he was a scapegoat.

Proud to be Scottish
174

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22/08/2009 06:12:28
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175

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:14:45
Oh good Southside,,,,got that vacation to Tripoli booked already do you?
176

Jimmy Le Pie,

22/08/2009 06:15:21
Stephen Light,

No Guantanamo comments, oh wise one???
177

Highland Laddie Gone,

USA 22/08/2009 06:16:50
From the Wall Street journal: "The Scottish Parliament has been called back from its summer recess to debate the matter, and on Monday Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill will appear before it in Edinburgh to explain why he made the decision to free Mr. al-Megrahi. Among the questions he is likely to face: why Mr. al-Megrahi was released when other seriously ill U.K. inmates -- such as Myra Hindley, a convicted child murderer with heart problems who requested early release several years ago -- died in prison."

Easy one: Hindley didnt have billions of barrels of oil. No grease, no release.
178

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:17:52
Jimmy,
It may shock you, but I have consistently objected to Guantanamo Bay and i consider it a perversion of American values. I hate it and i am pressing for it to be closed. I admit when the US makes mistakes and that was a horrible one. It is against the Constitution and all that I hold dear.
179

Otm Shank,

That London 22/08/2009 06:18:17
I wouldn't vote SNP if you paid me and tend to think that Messers McAskill and Salmond are a couple of fuds.

But, in many respects, they have given their cause and the cause of independence a great boost. Is this what an independent Scotland would be like; a small country with progressive values which won't be pushed around by super power bullies? Perhaps it might be time to rethink the whole independence thing after all.
180

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:18:58
Sorry Jimmy, I'm old and type slow.
181

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:20:57
AlanB,
It is not the last 40 years i am worried about, it is the NEXT 40 years.....
182

i wear trousers not a skirt,

22/08/2009 06:23:34
164 alan b

your the plonker mate as you know nothing about rangers fc . here a list of some of the catholic rangers players. check the internet
Mo Johnston wasn't the first Catholic to sign for Rangers. Not by a long chalk. Pat Lafferty signed for the Gers over one hundred years earlier. Catholics such as Willie “Doc” Kivlichan, Colin Mainds, Tom Murray, Archie “Punch” Kyle and Joe Donnachie continued to appear for Rangers over the years. Then there were the likes of Don Kichenbrand in the 1950s, Hugh O'Neill in the 1970s, John Spencer who was signed pre-Souness
183

,

22/08/2009 06:26:09
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184

rickypop,

22/08/2009 06:26:18
Stephen see the light.

There will not be a post american pull out of iraq until all the oils gone.
Just wonder who is setting off the bombs because for every one we have the excuse to stay longer.
1 question to you ..are the americans building new bases in Iraq if so how many & where? Are they oil stategic or not.
AMERICANS MAY BE GULLIBLE SCOTS ARE NOT.
185

Jimmy Le Pie,

22/08/2009 06:26:57
Stephen Light,

Any thoughts on the injustice dealt to the people of Diego Garcia at the behest of the American military??

http://tinyurl.com/62xvq
186

Highland Laddie Gone,

USA 22/08/2009 06:27:00
From the Wall Street Journal: "Saif Gadhafi, a son of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, was quoted by Agence France-Presse in an interview seen on Libyan TV as saying Scotland released Mr. al-Megrahi because of trade considerations with the oil-rich nation. A spokesman for Britain's foreign office said "there is no deal, all decisions have been made exclusively by Scottish" authorities."

SNP slogan: No oil? Then in jail you'll spoil.
187

Otm Shank,

That London 22/08/2009 06:27:03
"Among the questions he is likely to face: why Mr. al-Megrahi was released when other seriously ill U.K. inmates -- such as Myra Hindley, a convicted child murderer with heart problems who requested early release several years ago -- died in prison."

I don't know why anyone would ask him that. Hindley was tried and convicted under English law and English jurisdiction. What happens under English law has no more bearing in Scots law than what happens under Australian or Armenian law.

Poor old thick MSPs and poor old thick neo-con rag, the Wall Street Journal.
188

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 06:27:48
178 Highland Laddie Gone,

The Myra Hindley case falls under a different legal jurisdiction.

We are in Scotland here.
189

,

22/08/2009 06:29:39
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190

,

22/08/2009 06:33:56
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191

Highland Laddie Gone,

USA 22/08/2009 06:36:01
BBC reporting: Libyan trade oils release. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2009/08/oiling_libyas_diplomatic_wheel.html

SNP: "vote for us. We'll do you proud."
192

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:36:15
Well Shank....yes. Scottish Justice is so far superior....hat's off to you and the rest of the those who let killers free....
193

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22/08/2009 06:36:35
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194

Highland Laddie Gone,

22/08/2009 06:40:07
@189--I'm not familiar with the case, where is it? Has the WSJ confused Scotland and England? Naughty naughty if so.

If its not in Scotland, I'd still be interested in the statistics of which dying prisoners get compassionate release in Scotland and which dont. And why.
195

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:41:11
For all the Brave Scots....Ghaddafi just met with your released killer...great respect for you and the Gordon. And not to be outdone...
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's new defence minister sought by Interpol for 1994 bombing of Jewish centre

Smiles....wonderful world eh?
196

Beth Boyle,

NY 22/08/2009 06:41:53
I just have a heavy heart. The people of Scotland did not do this. Salmond did. Salmond is allot like George Bush, anything for an oil or trade deal goes.
197

Jimmy Le Pie,

22/08/2009 06:42:04
Stephen,

My agenda, as you put it is I don't like seeing my country bullied by America.

198

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:43:43
Well put Jimmie. I apologize if I came off as bullying. I am more dismayed than anything else.
199

rickypop,

22/08/2009 06:45:33
Stephen,

You are right we do not document anything politicaly sensitive & neither does the US, our governments are the problem not the people.
We now have to look under the carpet for the facts, but with the use of the net the facts can be found.

I dont believe 9/11 or 7/7 & why are there so many questions un answered.
I dont believe David Kelly commited suicide.
Also read the story of Katherine Gunn GCHQ, bugging the un delegates on their votes re Iraq war. To force through a legitamate war vote by blackmail.
200

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:45:57
For Beth...oh, Bush was FAR worse than that. If only all he wanted was money....he was a dolt in the bargain as well....
201

jockstrap,

cyprus 22/08/2009 06:46:28
Until the British(and probably American) government agree to release evidence they have with-held no one can say that there was a fair trial, so doubts remain about his guilt.Releasing him now will not bring back those killed ,nor will continuing to incarcerate him.I would suggest that most Americans know less about the case than do the British families which accounts for the differing views on his release. Personally I see no difference between blowing up a plane or shooting it down but don't recall any Americans being jailed for doing it.
202

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:47:43
Thank you Rickypop, always interested in additional information.
203

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 06:48:02
195 Highland Laddie Gone

Since 2000, I believe that there have been 30 applications for compassionate release, of which 23 were granted.

Since 2007 when the current Government came to power, there have been 4 applications, all of which were granted.

Myra Hindley fell under the English system, not ours.
204

Beth Boyle,

NY 22/08/2009 06:48:37
I agree he was worse but both men put business before justice or morality and that is tragic. Bush was an oil man before politics and Salmond a banker! UGH!
205

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:51:08
For jockstrap. It makes no difference to the dead. The issue is intent. We ask our military to go in harm's way and make decisions that are fatal every day in less time than it takes to eat a crisp. They make mistakes, we can't jail them for that and expect them to serve.
206

d1carter,

USA 22/08/2009 06:52:52
I am an American and I will not boycott Scotland or anything Scottish products. We have come too far as friends to have something like this come between us. I have visited Scotland on many occasions and I plan to continue. Scotland is a country of varied opinions much like the USA. We all don't agree with our government all the time and I am sure you do not either. I do not have Scottish blood in me, but I would be proud if I did. I do not agree with this decision to release Megrahi but this boycott idea is simply ridiculous. We shall remain close friends, but as friends we sometimes will disagree. Please do not allow the emotion of this moment interfere with our special relationship.
207

Corky,

22/08/2009 06:56:07
Remember Lt William Calley had his life sentence for his involvement in the My Lai 'incident' (500 innocents) commuted to three tears house arrest.
208

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:56:13
Well, I am off to bed. Apologies to those I offended, hard to watch the event as it stands. Have a pleasant day in Scotland and environs. God Speed.
209

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 06:56:56
207 Beth Boyle,

Alex Salmond was an economist who happened to work for a bank.

Not quite the same thing as a banker.

210

Beth Boyle,

NY 22/08/2009 06:57:58
Good Night, Stephen Light! LOL
211

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 06:59:23
Yes Corky,,,I hated the Vietnam War as well. Stupid from beginning to end. As for Lt Calley....I agree, too short and too late. He finally broke down in Georgia this month and tearfully apologized, but it is a bit late, isn't it? War is hell, only more so....
Goodnight all.
212

Beth Boyle,

NY 22/08/2009 06:59:50
Well I stand corrected but I still don't like his connection to the greedy banks, Bully Wee. I still love Scotland as much as I ever did.
213

Stephen Light,

Pennsylvania USA 22/08/2009 07:02:16
and to you too Beth Boyle !
214

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 07:07:55
Ah yes-the yanks and boycotts. Remember when French fries became Freedom fries? Cant even remember why-can any of you.
So brace yourselves for two weeks of Freedom Whisky!!
215

Highland Laddie Gone,

USA 22/08/2009 07:12:08
From The Independent: "Mr Islam, considered his father's most likely successor, declared: "I affirm that the Libyan people will not forget this brave stance from the governments of Britain and Scotland and that friendship between us will be enhanced forever."

The oil giant BP, which returned to Libya in 2007 after Mr Blair signed a deal with Col Gaddafi for a $900m joint venture, will be foremost among those UK companies expected to profit. Libya has the largest proven oil reserves in Africa, at 42 billion barrels.

"The potential is very large," said a spokesman for BP. "There's a lot of hope that new resources will be found there. You could be looking at an investment of $20bn over a couple of decades." BP is expected to now be able to push forward at speed with its geological study of the Sirte basin, an offshore area the size of Belgium."
216

Beth Boyle,

NY 22/08/2009 07:15:51
Geoff, that was all the wacko Bush lovers who were mad because France would not join the UK in the illegal and ill conceived Iraq war i.e. Holy War. How ever could I forget that? I like people of all nations if they are honest. This letting the terrorist go home was a mistake I think but I will get over it.
217

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 07:19:57
218 Highland Laddie Gone-well there's your answer. We are all incredibly naive if we think that this release has anything to do with morality or legal process. In the face of clear evidence of bribery and corruption,Tony Blair vetoed an enquiry into the Saudi arms deal-worth I think 80 billion pounds to the UK economy! Sadly,I think Alex Salmond would have done the same.
The price of morality is just too high.
218

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 07:25:15
219 Beth boyle-hi Beth!How are things in the wilds of NY,NY? We mere mortals will never know the truth. We have recently had a similar case in sa-a convicted fraudster and pal of our President Jacob Zuma,one Schabir Shaik,was recently freed after serving effectively a few weeks in prison on the grounds of "terminal illness". But guess what-he was seen recently swanning the streets of Durban in his black beemer,looking to all accounts,hale and hearty. If this al Megari character does miraculously recover, that I think would be a hard pill for ALL to swallow(or xplain)!!
219

Beth Boyle,

NY 22/08/2009 07:25:41
Aye Geoff, you have said it all.
220

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 07:28:17
220 Geoff
As BP now has a very limited presence in Aberdeen, there would be very little, if any benefit to Scotland from any such deal.

What evidence do you have that Alex Salmond would have vetoed any Saudi arms deal enquiry, apart from your own anti-SNP prejudices?

221

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 07:36:11
224 Sancho Panza

I have no pictures of Alex Salmond to admire, neither am I either unemployed or paid by the SNP.

Further, I have never claimed to be in the USA.

So I guess that rules me out from your wee rant.

222

albahomeland,

22/08/2009 07:36:40
37 Bill

No bill, we would prefer you stayed away.

Jihadi? Learn some facts.
223

albahomeland,

22/08/2009 07:38:45
It speaks volumes that a vocal minority of Americans would consider boycotting Scotland despite the support we have given them. Including dying alongside them.
224

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 07:41:36
223 Dun Eideaan Bully Wee-you are wrong about my "anti-SNP" prejudices." Although I am a Unionist I admire Alex Salmond and the SNP-Scottish nationalism is as valid a philosophy as Scottish Unionism in my opinion. I just dont belong to the "four legs good,two legs bad" brigade that populate much of these forums. I am talking Realpolitiek here-if thousands of scottish jobs were at stake for ANY reason, i am sure that Alex Salmond would do what it would take, to protect them above all else.
225

albahomeland,

22/08/2009 07:42:34
what a pathetic article. The Boycott Scotland website is no more than one individual with a grudge. He/she even has a googlemail address. Class!
226

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 07:52:35
228 Geoff,

Whereas Alex Salmond is at the forefront of the campaign to protect the threatened 900 Diageo jobs in Kilmarnock and Glasgow, there is nothing in his history to suggest that he would condone any illegal activity in pursuit of that aim.

This morality is what differentiates the Scottish Government from their Westminster counterparts.
227

KD,

22/08/2009 07:59:47
America is like a spoilt child when it doesn't get its own way...starts throwing tantrums and making a lot of noise without any sense. Remember the reaction when France wouldn't support their illegal and catastrophic war in Iraq? Freedom Fries etc? It's this arrogance and self-delusion that we all have to follow their lead that makes the Americans (government and hate-filled red-necks) so unpopular.

I'm glad the Scottish govt didn't fold to the pressure, like the UK govt undoubtably would have done!

Oidhche mhath
228

albahomeland,

22/08/2009 08:00:37
76 Tess

I think it is time for Americans to take a close look at themselves. Your successive Administrations have an awful human rights record and they have countenanced numerous unjustified wars.

Your loss of respect for Scotland (whatever that means) just shows how shallow you are. Scottish emigrants built your country and have supported your foreign excursions and died for your cause. I am disgusted by the vocal yet bitter minority who now turn on us.
229

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 08:05:14
230 Dun Eideann-I kind of agree with you about the higher moral standards of the SP compared to Westminster-the point I am trying to make is that in the real world there are few of us who make moral choices when those choices involve overwhelming negative material consequences. The world is too interlinked,too interdependent, to make choices in isolation.
230

albahomeland,

22/08/2009 08:05:42
105 Littlehorse

Just to say that the KKK was a Scottish invention. Quite ironic really. Klansmen. Part of our dirty history.
231

,

22/08/2009 08:14:29
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232

mangrove jack,

Australia 22/08/2009 08:16:29
This article is a total beat up. My youngest brother is studying in Florida; his Springburn accent is unmistakable. Yet to date he has not been challenged by strangers, friends or associates.

233

Jimmy Le Pie,

22/08/2009 08:24:14
#204 Sancho Panza,

I'm offshore in Tunisia just now, if you must know.
Should have been Iran but thanks to Comrade Broon no UK passport holders are allowed visas.
234

eric,

lthn 22/08/2009 08:25:29
Most of Scotland gets its tourist trade from ENGLAND,
The usa must asked themselves why was the cia in lockerbie overseeing forensics!
235

eric,

LTHN 22/08/2009 08:35:29
Americans are always bumping on about christian values,they are coming across as phoney pseudo-christian hypocrits now,your losing war in iraq,afghanistan and your hurting,
236

JulieAnn,

Bonny Scotland 22/08/2009 08:36:49
I know nothing of American politics, but I do know some of their people. Having visited America on a few occasions I can honestly say that I was treated to the warmest welcome in my life.

For the American reading this newspapers I would say this. From my heart, I believe that our First Minister made the only decision he could under difficult circumstances.

As I understand from all the newspaper reports, negotiations to transfer Megrahi back to Libya began more than two years ago. These negotiations, as I understand it, were vetoed twice by our First Minister in Scotland.

However, when evidence from no less than three consultants were produced to show that Megrahi was close to death, he caved in and agreed to release him on compassionate grounds. We should not allow this decision to become a political stick to beat our First Minister with, nor dredge up his past personal history.







237

eric,

lth 22/08/2009 08:40:26
China middle east is the new world now!
238

Linda,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 08:41:32
The UK government wanted to release Megrahi under the prisoner transfer agreement. Why else did they rush through this legislation?

The US government wanted Megrahi to rot in hell.

As an independent individual the justice secretary ignored both these vested interests (oil and trade deals)and took the correct decision without looking for any political advantage.

I will ignore the gutter press and am proud to be Scottish over this morally correct decision.

Brown is a moral coward and should have come out to support the Scottish government. Stronger together etc...
239

sawney hasbeen,

Paisley 22/08/2009 08:42:31
Bill Brann - why punish yourself with Kentucky rotgut? Heard is dissolves the brain, lowers your intelligence and turns you into a simpleton who swallows the greatest oxymoron of all - American Freedom. Look up the USS Vincennes and the hero's welcome and decorations for bravery they got for shooting down a civilian airline. Look up My Lai and the life sentence that became 3 years house arrest then release for the slaughter of over 200 women and children.
240

eric,

lth 22/08/2009 08:43:23
Brown dint support edinburgh because he knows his silence will kill off nationalism.
241

JulieAnn,

Bonny Scotland 22/08/2009 08:51:47
Eric, with what is coming out in the newspapers, it may well have the opposite affect.
242

,

22/08/2009 08:55:31
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243

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/08/2009 08:58:06
200 - grow up
244

Joe McT,

22/08/2009 08:58:50
I'll be more than happy if the Yanks boycott both Scotland and Britain generally.

Hopefully that will mean that our political masters are no longer stupid enough to join any more of their dumb wars.
245

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/08/2009 09:01:30
217 - freedom fries ! wtf was wrong with them calling them chips !

"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose"

-Kris Kristofferson.
246

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/08/2009 09:03:29
224 you an yer pals away an' do yer boycott an' gie us peace for Christ's sake !
247

John M. Slusser II,

Nantwich 22/08/2009 09:05:37
As usual, if you are not (and that includes over 200 posters previously on this one subject) part of the solution then you are part of the problem. It is very simple people; here is a viable plan. Bring over ANYONE the CONVICTED KILLER wanted to have around him as he died, and bob's your uncle, it kills two birds with one stone. The CONVICTED KILLER gets to be around his kith and kin and the atrocity he committed would still be served by him still being in prison. You see, people in England and Scotland forget, once you are CONVICTED of crime and then incarcerated for it, you are NO LONGER A CITIZEN AND THEREFORE HAVE NO, LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR THE SLOW MINDED, NO RIGHTS. So, NO ONE in either the Scottish or English governmental process, including the idiot MacAskill, gave a hoot about being COMPASSIONATE, it was an oil deal worth loads of cash in a what? an economic crisis period? Hmmmm, the answer is right there, compassionate, no, fiscally prudent - spot on. Once again, well done thou greedy government numpties.
248

Sedov,

22/08/2009 09:10:35
Hopefully, this will all blow over eventually. There are too many grass root links between the two countries including between the trade union movements in both countries.

However..

With Gadaffi now thanking Brown and the Queen ( in that order) for the release, will our American cousins now boycott all GB and its commonwealth?
249

Boy Wonder,

22/08/2009 09:10:46
Fine! Boycott Scotland ... and we'll boycott the wars the Americans started!!

Let's agitate to bring our SCOTS soldiers home ... and to hell with the rest of them who can't see the common sense of giving mercy to a man who'll soon be dead! A man whose guilt is not as certain as they would have it.
And if even if he was *which I sincerely doubt), can't they see that it actually proves our way of life is better than what Islam and Christianity would foist us on us ... because our justice system is tempered with mercy, a concept that appears to be beyond those who opposed Megrahi's release.
250

Ben Thehoose,

22/08/2009 09:16:32
If Donald Trump withdraws from Scotland in protest, then that's a further bonus for compassion.

Really, these old testament Americans with their primitive revengeful blood lusts are as bad as the terrorists in some ways.
251

Gdgy,

22/08/2009 09:18:30
It is unbelievable that SNPites are trying to shift the responsibility for this decision onto "anybody" else.....
Either McAskill made this decision (which he dresed up as matter of high moral standing that onlly he and the SNP couldhave or would have made)or he was forced into it...
Which one is it? Is he in charge and responsible or is he a tool?

Mind it is incredible that the yanks (in the land of the free) want to determine what other countries do in their legal system or on their own airports (in Tripoli) Oh I forgot...that what the US does....
252

John Cameron,

St Andrews 22/08/2009 09:21:39
“The quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath.
“It is twice blest: It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.”
Mercy is a word much valued by Shakespeare and also, it appears, by the Scots. The concept certainly seems to divide the grieving relatives on either side of the Atlantic. Does it, I wonder, also reflect a difference between Christianity in America and Britain? Mercy is clearly seen in the UK as a moral and chivalrous gesture but not in the culture of the USA. I find that aspect of these events intriguing.
253

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 09:22:19
252 John M. Slusser II,

Why would the Scottish Government be complicit in an “oil deal” struck between the UK and Libya?

We already have so much of the stuff that we export it!

Incidentally, you are wrong in Scots’ Law regarding the removal citizenship of convicted prisoners, although of course al-Megrahi was never a Scottish citizen in the first place.
254

albahomeland,

22/08/2009 09:23:41
256 gdgy

Only in your pea brain.
255

albahomeland,

22/08/2009 09:24:50
252 John

Why are you shouting. We can hear you perfectly well.
256

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 22/08/2009 09:25:05
#41

That's strange, Bill - I don't recall you good ol' boys down in Texas (and elsewhere in the States) executing the fearless Captain William C Rogers III of the USS Vincennes. Perhaps the difference is that the human beings slaughtered as a result of his actions were merely what many of your compatriots like to call "ragheads"

Why are so many US citizens blind to the impact that the Vincennes incident has had on their country's moral standing around the world? It may even have triggered the train of events that led to the explosion aboard PanAm 103. Or are you going to peddle the absurd myth that all the passengers aboard the Iranair flight were already dead before it was struck by the missile fired from the Vincennes?
257

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 09:29:54
Gdgy,
“It is unbelievable that SNPites are trying to shift the responsibility for this decision onto "anybody" else....”.


Where did you get that idea from?

It appears to be a characteristic of some of the more rabid unionistas that they require to misrepresent the SNP in order to try and make their point.

You seem to fall into that category.
258

james 1st,

hamiltonnz 22/08/2009 09:31:14
regardless of his conviction there still appears a realistic chance that this guy was actually innocent
his compassionate release saves hearing his appeal as a possibility that he would have been successful thus saving a huge compensation bill
either way he is dying
259

Baggy Troosers,

22/08/2009 09:37:14
#209 d1 carter.

When all this is done and dusted you and every other American will be MORE than welcome to keep visiting Scotland.
I fully support the SNP but not on this issue .
I think Mr MacAskill has made a big mistake in releasing this guy, he would have saved himself and us a lot of grief had he left him to die in prison.

However he has to be given credit where it is due ,he did what he thought was right, albeit it has caused a lot of animosity and caused a lot of hurt to you Americans ,but try to remember Scotland did suffer in this tragedy too.

Anyway Haste ye back and lang may yer lum reek.
260

jockstrap,

Cyprus 22/08/2009 09:39:51
The Iranian airbus shot down by the Americans was flying in Iranian airspace and was shot down by the Vincennes which was illegaly in Iranian waters.The airbus was broadcasting civilian radar at the time. On their return to the Sates the crew were not disciplined but awarded medals. President Bush refused to apologise.This is America leading the world by example
261

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 09:40:19
250 Pilrig-absolutely! A pack of fish and chips with crackling wrapped in genuine newspaper with lots of salt and vinegar and tomato sauce! Hope u are well stranger.

257 John cameron-It boils down to those many contradictary texts in the Bible. Maybe in Britain you incline more to the "turn the other cheek","love thy neighbour" tenets whilst the Yanks go more for Fire and Brimstone-"An eye for an Eye"
Still, compassion and mercy are two of the very few emotions that truly enoble us.
Would expect that more from the British(and Scots if you will) than the brash Americans, although again, generalisations are dangerous things.
262

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 22/08/2009 09:41:33
IF Bill Brann, MaggieMc & Santo Panza are representative of the USofA, then God help America...& the rest of the World.
263

Rents,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 09:41:41
My question is, what is america part in all of this ? are they weak or incompetent or happy for scotland to be yet another patsy in all of this.

Is President Obama asleep at the wheel, everybody knew Kenny McCaskil was going to make a decision for the whole week. Was he not interested or not informed, Hence the incompetance.

Or did the all powerful america bottle out of a decision, call me old fashioned but surely America could have stepped in at anytime to stop this.

Our American cousin should be lookin closer to home when dishing out the blame.

Saying all this I do not agree with the decision to release him, he should have waited for an appeal.

of coures the appeal would not have sat well with the americans as the setup him up as a patsy in the first place.
264

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 09:46:30
266 Geoff

A “genuine newspaper” is now unfortunately a rare commodity here, mores the pity.

265

George Bell,

Peebles 22/08/2009 09:50:17
I am not saying what has been done is correct or incorrect but the moode of the Americans is just typical. I have traveled all over the World over the last 30 years and have seen the US trying to make everyone do exactly what they want no matter wheither it is right or wrong. The States should look at them selves before condemming others. I say to all Americans that they have very short memories and forget who were the people who stood by them in very difficult times.
266

Green eyed monster,

22/08/2009 09:57:03
Alex Salmond: pen-pals with Mugabe, defender and champion of Milosovic (the 'toast of Belgrade' as Robin Cook called him), and now Megrahi's guardian angel.

And yet it is the English Football Team that MacAskill describes as the 'Great Satan'!
267

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 09:57:33
269 Dun Eideann Bully Wee- :)

You bring me too mind of "Till death us Do Part"-the episode when your man is sitting in the dunny and reaches for a piece of newspaper which just happens to feature a picture of herr hitler...!
268

Yes We Can,

Ayr 22/08/2009 10:00:27
I've just taken a look at their website and it rants on about no compassion or mercy for terrorists. I wonder if they extend their philosophy to the many Americans who happily funded NorAid and the IRA?

269

,

22/08/2009 10:00:58
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270

,

22/08/2009 10:01:46
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271

Dragonlord,

22/08/2009 10:07:30
How about a new web page?

americacangoandstuffitself.com
272

BROONISDOOMED,

22/08/2009 10:09:31
read this report in the guardian that was posted 19/6/01
reading this again,makes a lot of sense
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/19/lockerbie.comment
why did the usa pay 72 million dollars in cash for witness info to over 50 people
http://lockerbiecase.blogspot.com/2008/09/private-eye-on-conspiracy-files.html
273

BenH,

Aberdeen 22/08/2009 10:11:36
Funnily enough, you will not see American oil companies such as Apache, pulling out of the North Sea anytime soon.

It seems that the special relationship between the UK and the US is a one way friendship, they say jump and the UK say how high. For once, the right decision was made even in spite of American pressure.

Blair and Brown and Mandelson disgust me however. They cosy up to Gaddafi at every opportunity, which is more of an insult to the Lockerbie families than releasing the "bomber" could ever be. They rub shoulders with the real mass murderer and no-one is questioning that in any real depth.

It was always going to take someone with a bit of balls to take responsibility for the decision to release the Lockerbie bomber so that put Blair, Brown and Hilary out of the question - although maybe some one from the athletics authority should visit her just to make sure she is who she says, I have my doubts.
274

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:13:10
I'm reminded of a Sparks song

"Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and one more thing,

Can I invade your country, oh baby, baby, can I invade your country?
Oh baby, baby, can I invade your country?
Oh baby, baby, can I invade your country?
Invade your country?"
275

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 22/08/2009 10:14:46
Question to our dumb American cousins I referred to earlier...

...If this is about trade & oil, what are the Americanos doing in Iraq? A clue - O I...I'll leave you to guess the last letter, but it's between K & M.

What was Obama doing meeting Gadaffi previously...I forget now...
276

cscott,

usa 22/08/2009 10:18:36
america does not ask that scotland do our bidding or try to please us. we ask that you make morally responsible choices like any other free nation. this decision by the scottish executive was so wrong, on so many levels, as to stir us from our navel gazing (as you claim is all we do), which is in itself quite an accomplishment. i am an american of scots heritage and i am humiliated by this action. i hope scotland's behaviour of this week does not mark the long term trend of an independent scotland, coddling terrorists and making morally bankrupt decisions. compassion is not a scots trait. it is a human trait . ..and so is appeasement.

you have gotten your devolution, now show yourself grown up enough to exercise it.
277

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:21:24
281 cscott-patronising!...
278

Liberty Valance,

22/08/2009 10:24:11
America was built on greed.
Its only natural that when a fine nation like Scotland shows a spark of humanity and compassion in relation to another human being,we can expect this type of response from the greedy selfish Americans.
279

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:25:36
Yo Geoff! ¿Que pasa hombre?
280

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:26:41
279 Meths-hi meths!

If the British government had taken this decision-if it was in their name then i presume the Americans response would have been similar. The reality is that if Brown had made the decision then it almost certainly would have been the same-maybe though for different reasons. So in essence, this does not really have a lot to do with the Unionist-Nationalist debate although opportunists on both sides of the divide will "spin" it to their advantage(hate that spin word-what can we use in proper English-manipulate?)
281

Boab,

Glasgow 22/08/2009 10:28:24
Groan. Terrorism is basically a media phenomenon which involves lots of people getting really, really worked up (including people like us on threads like these). This is a non-story based on one website and a few emails.
282

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:28:51
284 Meths-comme ci comme ca mon ami! Comment ca va?
283

,

22/08/2009 10:29:09
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284

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:31:30
With my friend Meths lurking you all gona have to look sharp for the 300!!
285

cscott,

usa 22/08/2009 10:33:21
yes geoff . ..i am being patronising. childlike behaviour, like belief in fairies and terrorists deserving compassion, should be addressed as such.
286

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:36:53
300 more years!
300 more Glorious years!

Practicing.
287

,

22/08/2009 10:38:34
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288

Boab,

22/08/2009 10:38:34
#1 Jock Tamson: "Americans are so used to getting their own way that they take a redneck reaction to being on the back foot."

Hmm, we're flattering ourselves if we think they're burning Saltires outside the White House!
289

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:39:40
288

The domain name is registered in America.


Whois Record .....

Registrant:
Domain Privacy Group, Inc.
c/o boycottscotland.com,
7030 Woodbine Ave. Suite 800
Markham, ON L3R 6G2
CA

Domain name: boycottscotland.com

Administrative Contact:
Domain Privacy Group, Inc.
c/o boycottscotland.com,
7030 Woodbine Ave. Suite 800
Markham, ON L3R 6G2
CA
Fax:

Technical Contact:
Domain Privacy Group, Inc.
c/o boycottscotland.com,
7030 Woodbine Ave. Suite 800
Markham, ON L3R 6G2
CA
Fax:

Registrar of Record: Netfirms Inc.
Record expires on 2010-08-20.
Record created on 2009-08-20.
Database last updated on 2009-08-22 00:50:41.
290

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:40:21
Do you REALLY want the 300 Geoff? Why?
291

puskas,

East kilbride 22/08/2009 10:40:24
Found guilty on the evidence at the time.

Anyone have any problems with that?.

Anyone have problems that this man was found guilty in Holland by a Scottish Court of 5 judges?.

Anyone now that we know evidence was tampered with pre-trial, and evidence was with held by complicit UK and US governments feel that the guilty verdict was an injustice?.

Damn well right it was. The man was a patsy .

Innocent don't know, but one thing for sure under the circumstances he should have been released if both governments did not agree to disclosed all evidence.

Why do the morally corrupt governments (UK, US)and secret service hiding.

It seems we have many who have decided they are American on site over the last few days..

I pity your ignorance in foreign affairs.

The families who lost loved ones on this terrible tragedy, murder have more than sympathy from us Scots.

One thing though it cannot be right that revenge is aimed at a person who as it turned out did not have a fair trial.


292

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:42:25
Ignore 294! That's the address of the Domain Privacy Group - a group that hides who you are if you set up a domain name. Hmm ..... maybe it IS the Scotsman ...
293

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:43:22
296

I thought it was three judges.
294

Rents,

Prestonpans 22/08/2009 10:43:36
Cscott

What is your take on America's stance on this decision ?

Do you think they where kept out of the loop when Kenny MCCaskil was deciding to release him ?

Or is the truth that it is more convienant for the current american adminastration to bury there head in the sand on this ?

The americans pinned this on the libyans as they could not blame the real culprits(Iran)

That is the acts of cowards
295

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:43:40
Come on Geoff ....... we're waiting!
296

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:43:46
290 cscott-I truly find it difficult to arrive at a firm opinion in this issue. On the one hand,if he is genuinely only a few weeks from death then why not let the man die with his family. To fail to show some basic compassion ironically makes us almost as bad as him. If however you really are an eye for an eye adherent well-let the man expire in jail. Having said that though, I feel you should respect the rights of other nations to take a different view.
Also with regard to previous comments-My Lai etc.-Let he who is without sin....?
297

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:43:52
Sorry mate!
298

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:46:23
Meths-you jammy b*stard!
303 is the new three hundred! :)
299

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:48:18
Geoff

This is for your good self.

http://www.avatarpress.com/303/303pre.jpg
300

cscott,

usa 22/08/2009 10:49:28
rents: i am not the right person to ask that question of. i can't stand obama, and i think he would lie when telling the truth would be easier.

geoff: the he who is without sin argument is total b.s. all it does is make future wrongs ok. my lai was wrong agreed, but it doen't make babi yar right. if your only defense is that well, someone else did something worse, then you have no moral, enlightened or higher ground to stand upon.
301

,

22/08/2009 10:50:51
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302

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:51:46
302 Meths-enjoy the three ton squire-I am off home-spk to you later!
303

,

22/08/2009 10:52:00
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304

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:52:46
Geoff. You remember the site? Here's another possibly for tomorrow

http://venividivun.com/tv/

It should of course be on http://myp2p.eu/competition.php?competitionid=&part=sports&discipline=football

All free geoff!
305

,

22/08/2009 10:54:00
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306

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

22/08/2009 10:55:07
272 Geoff

I suspect that if I had been around under Herr Hitler’s regime I may well have been shot at dawn, certainly not because of any religious affiliations I may (or may not) have, but more likely because of my espousal of international fraternity and brotherhood, compassion and respect, and a desire to see morality, truth and dignity to be regarded as the highest pinnacle of mankind’s aspirations.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I am an atheist, humanist, economically Marxist Scottish Nationalist, who is neither gay, black nor disabled.

Stop the world, we have something to contribute and want to get on!

307

Mèths,

22/08/2009 10:55:52
306
"I have a domain name registered in Bosnia, UK and Ireland so what?"

Yep. I posted again explaining my error. The point is that the American one withholds identities.

No fax given - only

privacy-574596@domainprivacygroup.com


308

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 10:56:38
304 Meths-:):) Brilliant-I'm ordering the poster!
309

Oli,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 11:01:07
Are we to take a scolding from a state that puts people to death, tortures them, denies them due legal process; a jingoistic state with a cynical foreign policy for which we have sacrificed many of our own in pursuit of two hopeless campaigns; a state that demands diplomatic subservience and turns on us when we demur in the slightest from their primitive moral approach to penal policy?

None of the Americans posting here acknowledge that this was our decision to make, and most simply state that it was wrong rather than accepting that there are cultural differences, which mean that we arrive at different conclusions. Our concepts of justice are, thankfully IMHO, far removed from theirs. If the rednecks really want to drink 'freedom whisky', then fine!
310

Rents,

Prestonpans 22/08/2009 11:01:33
Cscott, please accept my apology then on the obama thing, I think he is lying through his teeth. He knew well fine what was going on.

What was your stance on the deal in the desert then ? that was during the Bush adminastration ?

Why was there no backlash no boycotts no mass hysteria when tony blair was rubbing shoulders with Col Gaddafi ?

The answer to this question is simple, the american goverment was in on all of this from the start.

If they were not If I was a victims family or freind I would be very upset that the american goverment was not heavily involved in any process.

Maybe it is time for some americans to come done from there ivory tower and maybe then they would realise the truth.
311

Geoff,

sa 22/08/2009 11:02:06
311Dun Eideann-those qualities and aspirations certainly put you in a small group! I am Unionist,agnosticish,capitalist lite-more mainstream!
312

Calum Crubag,

22/08/2009 11:03:51
Why don't the stupid Yanks ask why their government is doing business with Libya then? Duh!!! Why did Tony Blair, with Bush's approval shake hands with Gadaffi in his tent? Why did Obama shake his hand too?

I think the US needs a free independent press. Just now it seems to be run by right-wing Christian nutters. No freedom there.
313

BROONISDOOMED,

22/08/2009 11:04:23

I love that mountain with those four big heads
I love Velveeta slapped on Wonder Bread
I love a commie... if'n he's good and dead, yup
I love America

I love Old Glory and homemade pie
I think them Ruskies should be sterilized
I love my chicken Kentucky Fried...
Finger Lickin' Good!

Hey there, this is A.B. Cooper from
Cooper's Carnival of Clean and Classic Cars
It's our Fourth of July ... sale.
Here at Cooper's Carnival of Clean and Classic Cars
At the corner of Collins and Commerce
I've got lot full of the finest funny looking cars money can buy
At prices even you can afford
So come on down and say hello to me, and granny
And bring the kids to meet my snake
I say, "bye"
Granny says, "bye"
and the snake says, "sssssssssss"

I love General Patton in World War II
My Pocket Fisherman and my Crazy Glue
I love the Beav and Wally too, yeah
I love America

I love the bomb, hot dogs and mustard
I love my girl, but I sure don't trust her
I love what the Indians did to Custer
I love America

Here they come!
There they go!

I love my jeans and I love my hair
I love a real tight skirt and a real nice pair
And on the fourth of July, I love the rockets' red glare
I love America

I watch the A-Team every Tuesday night
I graduated, but I ain't to bright
I love Detroit 'cause I was born to fight
I love America

I love the Tigers but I hate the Mets
I ride my Hog but I race my Vette
I gotta job, but hell I'm still in debt
I love America

I love my bar and I love my truck
I'd do most anything to make a buck
I love a waitress who loves to... flirt!
They're the best kind
I love America
Turn me on
Well, I gotta go now
I love America
Bye Bye, I tell you what though, I really do love it
You ain't going to catch me at no mayday rally
314

,

22/08/2009 11:08:26
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315

Mèths,

22/08/2009 11:10:28
319

Hootsman probably.
316

Dragonlord,

22/08/2009 11:11:31
CSCOTT: What is your opinion on Americans having fund raising parades and sending armalite rifles to the IRA? The US of A fund terrorist all over the world ( in the guise of democracy)They invade countries with no moral right. They confine people in Gauntanimo with no legal representation and use torture and kidnap. There is no way the US of A can criticise any country whilst it continues to act the bully.
317

The Scotchman,

22/08/2009 11:13:28
More rubbish to 'scare' Scots in to voting corrupt London Labour.

I take it these so-called Americans will be boycotting their own Government from doing deals with Libya? One example from last week.

"US senators discuss military equipment for Libya"
http://tinyurl.com/nns5kg

I see. Didn't think so.

A people who spit on the Decoration of Independence with it's Scots and Ulster-Scots signatories. A crime worse than the bombing itself.
318

,

22/08/2009 11:14:17
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319

Francis Edinburgh,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 11:14:36
Americans would do well to remember that they shot down a civilian Iranian plane this is why Lockerbie came about. Americans should remember that they have caused the deaths of thousands over the years. You are not blameless. Or is any government in the world as for boycotting Scottish goods and all things Scottish well as usual you seem to think that you control the world. You are making a pigs ear of it are you not!!!!!

Alba forever
320

JT,

22/08/2009 11:17:29
To the people of the world Ordinary Scottish people did not make this decision, when will the thickheads on this posting realise this. This was a done deal by Tony Blair who was George Bush's puppet and our government had to comply. Since when does the US have the right to the moral high ground??? Your rendition flights which were conducted on scottish soil, you shoot to kill innocent people all around the world in the name of terrorism, supported and probably continue to finance certain "freedom" groups. Need I go on!
321

dalriadan,

Glasgow 22/08/2009 11:18:12
It almost beggars belief. A nation like the USA, who are generally un-repentant about the slaughter of 1 million people in Iraq, who in the 21 century have "female chain gangs" in certain state prisons.
How dare they preach to the Scottish nation on morality. How dare they threaten us with boycotts.
Incredible.
322

Francis Edinburgh,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 11:20:25
Just thought I would also like to congratulate MacAskill on a great speach which proved to the world that human beings do have compassion. His hands were tied by the actions of one Tony Blair - where is he. Respresentations were made to stop this agreement with Westminster and Lybia but he did not listen. Are the Americans going to boycott England as well then so be it - withdraw out troops from Afghanistan and in the future remember America it is not only your loved ones who are dying fighting your wars but Scots as well.
323

BROONISDOOMED,

22/08/2009 11:20:32
i didnt see mark chapman getting to meet old sparky,well after all he only killed john lennon
wonder if he was put up to it by the CIA as they and the FBI hated him for speeking his mind
they wont let him out as he will be shot dead,by some gun ho yank who wants the fame of "I shot the dude that killed john lennon"
324

dalriadan,

Glasgow 22/08/2009 11:25:31
It's still almost disbelief. That any civilised nation could vote Bush in for two consecutive terms.
The USA are the most disliked nation on earth. If you don't want to open your mind, if you will remain indoctrinated by Fox News, if you don't understand what is really happening in the middle east, then it's probably better not to travel anyway.
325

RobNC,

North Carolina,USA 22/08/2009 11:28:22
...314,you my friend are a troll..when death comes to your door you will understand..I weep for the families..you seen the picture of the young Scottish boy burnt to death from the planes jet fuel..10 of yourownountrymen died from this monsters actions...Scotland then man went home to a hero's welcome ...I must remind myself that this was but one mans decision...so wrong on so many levels I still can`t condemn the entire country...but then after reading some of the posts here...I`m not so sure...
326

puskas,

East kilbride 22/08/2009 11:29:12
No298... You may be correct.


Whether 1, 3, 5, or 100 judges the jist of what I said remains the same..
On evidence given most probaby 100 judges may have found the man guilty.
The facts are we now know that evidence was tampered with by CIA agents and as I said both these governments are falling over themselves by banning freedom of imformation .. That cannot be right what are our governments frightened of .. GUESS.

Can I also say the following.

In Scotland we already know roughly 2 years ago that Blair met Ghaddafi and agreed to a prisoner exchange deal..

That prisoner exchange deal was scuppered by guess who.

The Scottish National Party Government.

Unknowningly Bliar had forgotten that Scottish Law was seperate from the Westminster English variety...
Magrabi's release was turned down by Scottish law.

The rats are all rustling about scared as cowards normally are on what revelations will come out in the future.. It will take more than a college boys scriptures to get them out of this..(Iraq)

I dare say it explosions will form over both governments and their involvement in this tragedy...

The people of Scotland are no different to all who have been involved up front in this.

We are looking for justice for all murdered and the families who have had to live their lives under what is far more than a cloud.

It is possible the coyotes behind the scenes in this miscarriage of justice will be named.. Don't think so..

Anyone wishing protest I suggest they should camp out in London and Washington..


327

Saul Tyre,

Germany 22/08/2009 11:31:57
Is it true that the Americans are now going to rename our Scotch Whisky? I heard their now calling it 'Freedom Whisky'.
328

Rents,

Prestonpans 22/08/2009 11:32:25
The americans have played this from the start

Its not been at the expense of a libyan national, the scottish goverment and worst of all the victims families.

The Americans where never interested in truth the wanted a face a patsy step up Al Magrahi.

They needed bailing out as his appeal was going to get heard by the european court of human rights, this then would have found the man innocent leaving the americans where ? step up kenny McCaskil

The only bad thing about this is we the scottish people have been played.
329

suileandubh,

melbourne 22/08/2009 11:36:08
let's not forget the Americans don't forget thsoe who slight them. Bush junior started a war against Iraq because of his father's injured something or other. Scotland has shown the world it is not afraid of the US. The best way to deal with any bully is to stand up to them. The right decision was made and who says you can't have an International relationship when you don't agree on everything. Trade between countries isn't usually so flexible or transparent. If you read the US papers, this business doesn't rate a huge mention. Most Americans are more interested the state of their health system. I suspect those senators had to appease some families who lost loved ones in Lockerbie.
330

Scotkid,

Scotland 22/08/2009 11:39:42
49 - I agree
53 - Yes, because killing people is oh so honourable
100 - Enjoy ruining a country
110 - "small country not really a country"? Is a quiet person not really a person?
- puppets of england? it's not like we have much choice
148 - "your loss scotland"? I would have thought you'd have said SNP given that they made the decision. You seem to dislike all of us because of a decision made by a minority. And now you're promoting the suffering of the majority. You're my kind of person, this is like Iraq minus the guns.
331

Godric,

Ayrshire 22/08/2009 11:39:42
What you Americans fail to understand is unlike the English we are not your poodles, we decide what is right for Scotland and not America the sooner you understand that the sooner you will understand what it is to be Scottish

lets face the facts Megrahi was the fall guy/scapegoat ... the real culprits were the Iranians after the American cruiser shot down their airliner months beforehand ... and the guy that comitted the act of bombing the pan am airliner over lockerbie is languishing in jail in Germany, he openly admits he was guilty of the crime which was ordered by Iran in vengeance

Iran Air Flight 655, also known as IR655, was a civilian airliner shot down by US missiles on Sunday July 3, 1988, over the Strait of Hormuz, toward the end of the Iran–Iraq War.
The aircraft, an Airbus A300B2 operated by Iran Air as IR655, was flying from Bandar Abbas, Iran, to Dubai, UAE, when it was destroyed by the U.S. Navy's guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes, killing all 290 passengers and crew aboard, including 66 children, ranking it the seventh among the deadliest airliner fatalities. It was the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Indian Ocean and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus A300 anywhere in the world. The Vincennes was traversing the Straits of Hormuz inside Iranian territorial waters and at the time of the attack, IR655 was within Iranian airspace.



290 innocent deaths. The US eventually paid out huge compensation to the victims families but nobody was convicted and no apology was ever made indeed George Bush senior said "I will never apologize for the United States of America. I don't care what the facts are."

I dont see the same moral outrage over this atrocity. Perhaps Iranian lives are cheaper than American lives ??

Americans believe themselves to be above the law
332

Saul Tyre,

22/08/2009 11:41:24
We can also boycott American goods and we can start with their cars. We don't buy them anyway but we can now not buy then officialy.
333

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22/08/2009 11:41:31
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334

Unimpressed one,

22/08/2009 11:41:50
Ah, so Scotland's to become another Cuba. Presumably Scotch whisky and haggis will be branded as contraband by the US authorities. Or are we to have the same status as Vietnam did after the Americans were thoroughly humiliated? This exposes the US as a puerile nation, despite its technological prowess and superpower might. No wonder the world's in such a state.
335

cscott,

USA 22/08/2009 11:41:55
rents: no biggie . ..i was for the iraqui invasion . ..at the time i remember saying "even the french think hussein had nukes". america was wrong on that, but it doesn't mean bush lied. it just means the global security network was out of the loop and w. wanted to attack so he interpreted any gaps in information as unimportant and/or to the point of view he had.

dragonlord: i thought the ira thing and raising money in bars in boston should have been prosecuted. it was freaking wrong
336

Edinburghs only big team,

22/08/2009 11:43:05
336 What are you jibbering on about?

People like you are adding to our new found status as most disliked country in Europe.
337

Edinburghs only big team,

22/08/2009 11:45:33
338 Please do not tar everyone with the same brush.

338

Rents,

Prestonpans 22/08/2009 11:48:49
341

Most disliked country in europe ha ha ha that is qaulity.

Which part of England are you from again ?
339

LondonCalling,

22/08/2009 11:50:10
336 "...the sooner you will understand what it is to be Scottish"

I think the world now fully understands what it is to be Scottish. A tiny country with the highest murder rate in Europe, a dreadful health record, a poverty level that is not third-world status only because of handouts from the English taxpayer and now a country that is new best friends with Libya and other pariah tinpot nations.
340

Edinburghs only big team,

22/08/2009 11:52:20
343# The clue is in my name.
341

Godric,

Ayrshire 22/08/2009 11:52:42
the americans believe themselves to be above international law

341 that is the facts behind the Lockerbie disaster, had the american navy not shot down a iranian airliner in Iranian airspace the bombing of Pan am airline over Lockerbie would not have happened

and how do you work out that we are the most disliked nation in Europe dafty

342

Rents,

Prestonpans 22/08/2009 11:53:59
On the other hand to be English oh so proud of being America's lapdog.

Its scotland,wales and NI that has made Britian great not your disgrace of a country

As far handouts I think our oil,whiskey and tourism is enough to get by on.

343

RobNC,

North Carolina,USA 22/08/2009 11:54:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_USFvnaSSU&feature=fvw
344

Rents,

Prestonpans 22/08/2009 11:55:57
345 I get the clue I was being sarcastic

Sarcasm is usually lost on you privately educated upper class types
345

Edinburghs only big team,

22/08/2009 11:56:13
341 you really aren't making any sense.

If you read the article above you will start to understand the damage this is causing.

Engage brain first....
346

Edinburghs only big team,

22/08/2009 11:57:00
350 meant 346
347

Oli,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 11:57:02
@330 You know what they say - 'Don't feed the troll'.

However I thought my points were succinct and to the point, hardly the actions of a true MB troll. Your response, on the other hand, was emotionally charged - and barely coherent if I'm honest.

I'm an atheist but I have humanist principles, among which is that of compassion. I know that may mean little to most Americans. However, with all your professed christians, you seem to have little collective forgiveness. If you can't forgive Megrahi to the extent that you would allow him to go home to die, forgive us that we would allow him to do so:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness#Christianity
348

WL,

Livingston 22/08/2009 11:57:24
The Americans are such bad losers, including Obama and Clinton. They are the laughing stock of the world.
349

LondonCalling,

22/08/2009 11:58:14
Its scotland,wales and NI that has made Britian great not your disgrace of a country


LOL. So when are our Scots leaders in Westminster going to give the English their vote for independence?
350

Edinburghs only big team,

22/08/2009 11:59:14
348# Very Touching.

Unfortunately lost on a few of the posters here...
351

Edinburghs only big team,

22/08/2009 12:00:21
353 - I think you'll find we aren't exactly doing ourselves any favours here.

352

Godric,

Ayrshire 22/08/2009 12:04:36
351 i have engaged my brian the americans take a hissy fit every time they do not get their own way in international matters and call for boycots, this is the same america that has impossed huge tarriffs on our goods and the rest of the European union under Bush even when we we're/are close allies, this is why customs charge you if you buy goods from america, that is why i never buy american goods
353

puskas,

East kilbride 22/08/2009 12:05:04
As the arab correspondant from the London Times said in this morning news.

Arabs know the difference between the English and Scots. The Scots are a noble and fair minded people, and the English?. I thought he was a bit unfair as others have said in these topics we cannot tar everyone with the same brush..

Its seems the decision taken hasn't gone down well in England and the US.... I wonder why.?

Elsewhere worldwide in the media The Scottish Government has been praised in making the decision they did for the legal reasons given.... Many questions getting asked regards the involvement of the CIA, and M15/16 or whatever..
Cheating our own citizens for the closure they deserve.



354

Godric,

ayrshire 22/08/2009 12:06:05
bah typo engaged my "brain"
355

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22/08/2009 12:07:47
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356

2dogs in D.C.,

22/08/2009 12:08:16
The only reason I boycott Scottish goods is that I just can't afford that magnificent single malt. I agree with the poster way up there,what's done is done,lets mend the fence and move on.Hopefully,together.
357

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22/08/2009 12:08:20
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358

Baggy Troosers,

22/08/2009 12:08:43
#344
Away back to yer pigsty you moron.
359

Cedric Rainwater,

22/08/2009 12:09:27
I can't stand Salmond and the SNP, but, compare the action of the Scottish administration in relation to Megrahi and the US President to the slaughter of 500 Vietnamese civilians. The US hypocrisy is astounding.
The BBC website carries a report on the officer (William Calley) who was convicted of and does NOT deny having carried out that massacre. Lieutenant Calley was only carrying out orders.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8215556.stm
360

LondonCalling,

22/08/2009 12:10:13
We the English people are fed up with Scotland.

*They take our hard-earned money.
*They free terrorists.
*They are always moaning.
*They vote on English issues in OUR parliament.
*The English taxpayer has been forced to spend fortunes saving Scottish banks.
*We are fed up seeing Salmond and MacAskill on TV saying what compassionate, nice people the Scots are.
*Scottish leaders have driven England to the edge of bankruptcy.
*The Scots can't even play football anymore.

We demand they are given their independence at the earliest opportunity.
361

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22/08/2009 12:13:03
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362

,

22/08/2009 12:14:23
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Rab haw,

22/08/2009 12:14:52
The Americans who come on here should take a serious look at the actions in the past of their own country before screaming abuse of another which has taken a decision based on human compassion, which if we ALL abandon, then we all lose to the terrorists and their wish to spread inhumanity throughout the human race.
364

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22/08/2009 12:16:12
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365

Baggy Troosers,

22/08/2009 12:16:33
Meanwhile on BBC news 24 Kurnel Gadaffi has just thanked his "friend Gordon Broon "for recent developements, wonder what he meant and wonder why Broon is so quiet ,is there even more to come.
366

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22/08/2009 12:16:40
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suileandubh,

22/08/2009 12:18:41
what a stupid newspaper this paper is. we know you're anti-SNP but now it seems you're also anti-Scotland. How damaging can you be to your own country? It defies belief. You have been promoting negative and biased views on the al-Megrahi matter for ever. The Herald doesn't carry on like this.
368

,

22/08/2009 12:20:24
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369

,

22/08/2009 12:23:29
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,

22/08/2009 12:24:52
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LondonCalling,

22/08/2009 12:24:54
What would the Scots say if the leader of the Scottish parliament was an Englishman?
Yet they say nothing that our leader is a Scot, elected by the people of Dandelion and Burdock, a place that most English people have never head of.
However unfair this might seem, it wouldn't be quite so bad if the Scots were actually a little appreciative of the couple of grand each they get every year from the English taxpayer.
But no, they whinge and whine about how poorly they are treated by the evil English.
Then to cap it all they go and make England look bad by releasing from prison on "compassionate" grounds the man who committed one of the world's worst ever terrorist atrocities.
Next, McAskill will announce that Scots soldiers in Afghanistan will be changing sides to fight alongside the Taleba, against the evil US and English forces.
372

,

22/08/2009 12:27:56
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,

22/08/2009 12:32:07
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Edward,

22/08/2009 12:32:19
Americans should start to look at the case properly and look into their governments involvement at the time in 'providing' evidence. Perhaps then there will be a better appreciation that Al Magrahi may not be guilty after all. Yes this does NOT negate the atrocity.
I was in Lockerbie in the early morning of the 22nd and saw for myself the devastation. This will live with me for the rest of my life.
But I feel the evidence was indeed 'cooked' in order to first get a conviction and secondly (and politically motivated) to heap the blame on Libya.
What was the evidence and conviction based on?:
1. That a bomb with an air pressure triger (which would set of at a certain altitude) was placed in baggage in Malta, which flew to Frankfurt then flew again to London (why didnt it go of on either of those 2 flights?)
2. A fragment the size of a thumbnail was 'found' weeks after the event in woods, attached to a peice of shirt also the size of a thumbnail, that somehow connected Al Magrahi. This 'evidence' was found by un-named americans.
What WAS ignored, was a break in to the PAN AM Baggage unit at Heathrow on the morning of the departure of Pan Am flt PA103. This was hushed up and was never presented to the Scottish Judges on orders of the UK Government.
So the case was alway weak to say the least.
Al Magrahi has got terminal cancer, he will die within weeks, that is for sure.
The Scottish Government are following principles laid down in Scottish Law for Compassion, The Law is based on presbyterian beliefs, so is not surprising that Scottish Law provides compassion in these circumstances
What is shocking is the way Americans question this. Why? well simple reason they like , especially the neocons, want us to believe in there own christian values.
Think about it
375

,

22/08/2009 12:35:34
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376

Baggy Troosers,

22/08/2009 12:35:52
or better still stick his brain in a sock and call it a Haggis
377

Ewan Randall,

22/08/2009 12:37:40
(#370) – (Baggy Troosers) – If Gadaffi is in any way to be believed wouldn’t that also mean that the royal family were involved with this matter?

If Gadaffi is in any way to be believed wouldn’t that also mean that our own Scottish government have been lying to us on this matter too?

Is it likely that the royal family would have had anything to do with releasing this terrorist?

Is it likely that the Scottish government would have lied over this matter, when they could have made so much political gain if the UK government tried to go over their heads?
378

Cedric Rainwater,

22/08/2009 12:37:46
LondonCalling # 376

The SNP does not command ANY Scottish soldiers, just a vicious, vociferous online rabble: examples of which can been seen here, any day.

It is good to see the SNP getting a taste of their own medicine, they don't like it, do they.
Usually it is the SNP and their vicious online rabble who are abusing all and sundry, this is an entertaining reversal.
I don't suppose there's much likelihood of a visit from President Obama to President Salmond anytime soon?
379

Liberty Valance,

22/08/2009 12:47:40
#347 Rents The "great" in Gt. Britain,has absolutely nothing to do with Britain's greatness.
It is a reference to the land mass in relation to Britanny.
Also The north of Ireland is not part of Britain,a disputed part of the UK,yes, but not part of Britain.
Anyway, the state of ni has contributed nothing to the British exchequer since it was set up in 1922.That part of Ireland has been continuously heavily subsidised since 1922.So how can you say that it has contributed to Britain's "greatness" ?
380

Mèths,

22/08/2009 12:47:53
From the Boycott site

"The unfortunate reality is that initiating boycotts against the tourism, banking, and oil industries of a particular country are necessary in order to force that government to listen and understand and admit their error."

Why oh why oh why to the Americans go into a hissy fit if they don't get their own way? It's either regime change or invasion.

(They've never been the same since independence)
381

The Bish,

Glasgow 22/08/2009 12:50:58
#17

Charles, if in your opinion Kenny McKaskill is a man of 'supreme intelligence' then god help Scotland.

This is a man who wants to ban airguns, but lets a MASS MURDERER walk free from a life sentence, to return to Libya to a heros' welcome.

It seems that those of a Nationalist persuasion who frequent this board, are as far out of touch as their partys' leaders, for I haven't met any Scot who approves of this decision.

If there was pressure behind the scenes from the UK Government to procure this mans release for political and business reasons as has been suggested by some on here, then wouldn't the brave decision (and the more likely from this Nationalist administration) have been to resist?

Frankly I was disgusted by the decision to release this man, and for the first time in my life I'm ashamed to be Scottish.

Finally I'd like to apologise to any of our American Cousins who might visit this board, and assure them that Mr McKaskills' decision was not representative of my views or those of any other Scot whom I've spoken to.
382

Scotkid,

22/08/2009 12:51:16
376 - we say nothing of the fact that "our" leader is Scottish? Please bear in mind you're talking about the fact he's the leader of Britain, not purely England. And incidently just because we don't shout from the rooftops our opinions on Brown doesn't mean we aren't saying anything. I'm also curious, who says we all aren't appreciative of what we're given? Just because we're not singing your praises. Incident;y everyoine is blaming Scotland for the release anyway and how does admitedly wrongly releasing a terrorist make us the terrorists?
383

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22/08/2009 12:51:47
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384

Baggy Troosers,

22/08/2009 12:58:31
383

Why would the Royal Family be involved ,they are mere eye candy ,figureheads in a British Empire and have no say in anything (as well as no brains).
To my knowledge they are not allowed to have a political opinion and as far as i know do not vote in the elections so they have no voice.

As for the Scottish Gov well they asked for an opinion and feedback from London as the Uk government, only for them to cross their legs ,fold their arms stick their noses in the air and say we're no tellin ye anything.


As for Cedric Pishwater same old guff
I hear Kenny MacAskill has been nominated for a nobel peace prize har har har
385

Macuistean,

On the mainland 22/08/2009 12:58:49
Lybia------Oil-------America------"Hello pal, shall we help you get rid of .................."
386

Liberty Valance,

22/08/2009 13:04:36
#390 Well said.
Your post is further proof that these English royals are a burden on the hard pressed Scottish taxpayer.

The time has come for them to go.
387

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22/08/2009 13:05:28
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388

Baggy Troosers,

22/08/2009 13:06:10
I have to go i'm going up to Asdas to get a bottle of the cheap cider before that pesky bu*ger MacAskill slaps the price up.
389

Scotkid,

22/08/2009 13:06:23
Anyone else wondering why the president has so far said nothing regarding the boycott Scotland issue?
390

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22/08/2009 13:07:12
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391

Gina Gibson,

Wales 22/08/2009 13:07:16
Here we have Americans complaining about the release of a mass muderer yet they are silent about Lt William Calley who was the US officer responsible for massacring 150 men, women and children at My Lai during the Vietnam war.

Shouldn't the rest of the world boycott American goods since they allow this mass murderer to walk free?

As an earlier poster said, the Americans are too used to having one set of rules for them and another set for the rest of us!

The rules on extradition are a classic example!!
392

Baggy Troosers,

22/08/2009 13:07:23
Thanks liberty.
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Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 13:08:00
Megrahi is only a CONVICTED MURDERER because the CIA paid someone $$$$Millions to give evidence against his co-accused (who was found NOT guilty).

He should not have been released and we should be learning the truth behind the set up, the involvement with Iran and the shooting down of the civilian airbus over their airspace and President Bush's refusal to apologise or compensate for that atrocity and also find out who warned so many high ranking US and UK officials not to go on that Panam flight. We also need to find out who has been negotiating for oil from Libya in return for Megrahi's freedom (Milliband from England and Obama when he visited Gaddafi last month????!!!!!).

Scots should be doing the boycotting - get our troops out of Afghanistan, stop visiting the USA and last but not least ban Michael Jackson songs and Mickey Mouse junk. But not necessarily in that order.
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Oli,

Edinburgh 22/08/2009 13:08:09
More American justice:

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2009/08/200981813114632353.html

Again, why should we take a telling from any nation that practices inhumanity and then tries to take the moral high ground with us?
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22/08/2009 13:08:13
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Reason:
396

Highland Mist,

22/08/2009 13:10:12
#396, at last someone with sense.
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Jimmy Two Times,

USA 22/08/2009 13:20:23
To all the people who "have never been prouder to be from Scotland" or anything close to that....

The story being reported throught the world is that Scotland let a terrorist bomber go free and he was afforded a near ticker tape parade in Libya, complete with kisses from Kadafi Sr. who then declared it a great victory. You can pat yourselves on the back until your haggis soup turns bad, but that's the image Scotland has earned for itself.
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Cedric Rainwater,

22/08/2009 13:22:04
Angus og of The Isles # 389

What has this issue got to do with Gordon Brown?
Salmond and MacAskill cooked this up on their own. They cannot say they were not warned. Hillary Clinton spoke to MacAskill in words of one syllable. She spoke out twice in public against releasing Megrahi. President Obama spoke out publicly against it too. Salmond and MacAskill knew what was coming, they decided that they are "independent" of any contrary opinion and should accept the flak. Let's hope it will not cost many Scottish jobs
I wonder will Diageo now assert their independence of Salmond and will the Nat rabble who were calling for Diageo products to be boycotted, now moderate their voices.

Baggy Troosers # 390

London has demonstrated to Salmond what independence mean. Make your own decisions, right or wrong. Salmond has failed dramatically at the first test. The whole world knows who Salmond is now and is laughing at him. Salmond has no credibility in the world, anywhere.
"I hear Kenny MacAskill has been nominated for a nobel peace prize" Who by, El Megrahi?
As far as I can see, Salmond/MacAskill's decision is the best of both worlds. A man whom I believe is innocent is back where he should be and the SNP are getting rubbished for it.
Salmond's hubris, superciliousness, is his undoing. I can't wait to see him bluster, sneer and attempt to bully his way out of this.

The opportunity was on the table to recall the Scottish Assembly last week to debate the matter of El Megrahi's liberty. The SNP declined that offer, they are where they are because of Salmond's hubris.
399

Unionist Voice,

22/08/2009 13:22:21
Nice to see AM2 has extended his web presence!
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Unionist Voice,

22/08/2009 13:22:44
From the Scotsman:

"Mr Brown's reluctance to make a statement was in sharp contrast to his quick reaction to other, less important events. Just hours after the death of reality TV star Jade Goody, the Prime Minister released a statement saying the whole country admired her determination. He also reacted quickly to the death of Michael Jackson and commented on the troubles of Britain's Got Talent star Susan Boyle
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Unionist Voice,

22/08/2009 13:25:24
404. "Salmond has no credibility in the world, anywhere"

If only Salmond had supported Abu Ghraib and its charming images of urination on Iraqis and worrying Iraqs' genitals with Alsatian dogs, rendition, water boarding and Guantanamo bay, as we in New Labour did, then Salmond's justice policies would have more credibility.
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Cedric Rainwater,

22/08/2009 13:33:57
Unionist Voice # 407

Where did Labour evince support for US abuses at Abu Ghraib?
If you supported Abu Ghraib abuse I can only deduce that you hoped that some mud would stick to your government, why?

What is Salmond/MacAskill's justice policy worth now?
The SNP only managed to make this great erection in the sky because they had the power to do so. They did not make any mistakes whilst pontificating from the sidelines.
Schadenfreude is wonderful, don't you think?
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22/08/2009 13:34:24
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Reason:
404

IainGlasgow,

22/08/2009 13:47:05
#404

The Prime Minister's silence on the issue is deafening and let's not forget that it was TB who first offered the release of Megrahi, even though he did not have the authority to do so. Nevertheless according to BBC Gadaffi has thanked Brown for Megrahi's release.

And what about Jim Murphy? Usually he can't get his oar into devolved matters fast enough to try to upstage the Scottish Government. I've not heard a peep from him about Megrahi.

As for the Americans acting like they have moral high ground, here is an example of it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8215722.stm

Looks like news burying to me!
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Edward,

22/08/2009 13:47:25
A sinister twist came out last night from Newsnight, reporter Michael Crick put together a 'hearts and minds' package with montage of Scottish scenery (which included the white cliffs of dover - very amusing) and suitable music. The twist being that he believes this throws develution in Scotland into doubt!
Keep an eye on this, this could be the start of trying to do away with the Scottish Government under the pretext that Scotland cant be trusted
Suggest watching it again on the i-Player
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Cedric Rainwater,

22/08/2009 13:56:57
Angus og of The Isles # 409

Just imagine how Salmond must be feeling now, he must be feeling 10 maybe 20 times your pain. That's politics mate. How many times has the world had to read the smears, sneers of the SNP support?

You just have to admire Gordon Brown's composure after the invective he has suffered at the hands of his fellow countrymen. People who love nothing better than to drag their fellows down to their level. Gordon Brown doesn't have to say anything about the El Megrahigate, just let the SNP administration stew. I am sure he is enjoying Salmond's spectacular reality check.
Happy boating, or whatever you do, M'Lord. You Tartan Army Pranny!
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Cedric Rainwater,

22/08/2009 14:01:59
Edward # 411

Just because Salmond and his cabal can't be trusted it doesn't reflect badly on Scotland as a whole.
MacAskill's speech the other day attempted to blame the Westminster government for Megrahigate, it backfired in the most spectacular manner. So, everybody is laughing at the SNP, not Scotland. The SNP are not Scotland, thankfully. Caesar Salmond now knows his place in the international pecking order and should make himself scarce. He was warned.
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cscott,

usa 22/08/2009 14:02:54
angus of the isle: amazingly enough, 7 american pilots in 7 american planes COULD bring scotland to her knees. but that's not what we want. we in america, freakin love scotland and want a reason to acknowledge that love.

i love scotland . ..i want to wear the tartan . ..but it is fokin crazy descisions like the ones this week that make that task so hard.
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IainGlasgow,

22/08/2009 14:07:59
# 411

The proverbial will hit the fan if that happens. Remember 75% of people voted in favour of devolution and according to opinion polls the majority want more powers for Holyrood.

Opinion on the Megrahi release seems to be split down the middle, centering on compassion or retribution against a man who was convicted on the basis of largely circumstantial evidence.

I just wonder how many American "christians" would like to see Megrahi tied up, tortured and burned alive
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St Monance,

Toronto 22/08/2009 14:12:58
The Minister's statement clearly defining his decision made it clear how much closer Canada is to Scotland and the UK in values, than to the USA.
Nothing short of torture and death for Megrahi would satisfy the USA -- and the civilized world has sought to leave that dark past beind for the last century. Guatanamo Bay, adult murder trials for 12 year-olds, life sentences for three crimes (i.e. stealing a loaf of bread), etc. are proof positive that the USA has not joined the worthy values of the 21st century.
God bless the Scottish Justice System and the courage of its leaders.