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Why this woman's story shames Scotland

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Published Date: 03 June 2008
HUMAN rights campaigners and churches last night demanded the closure of Dungavel Removal Centre – Scotland's "Guantanamo" – saying the imprisonment of vulnerable women and children behind a wire fence was unacceptable in 21st-century Scotland.
They also said it was time the Scottish Government stopped saying immigration was a Westminster matter and found a solution for injustices happening on Scottish soil.

The fresh outrage came after The Scotsman revealed the harrowing testimony of Corellie Bonhomme, 35, a Canadian national, who told of her despair inside Dungavel, and of how she was pinned down by immigration officials and had her two-year-old daughter, Fi, snatched from her.

Last night, the Canadian government stepped in, sending a fax to Ms Bonhomme, promising assistance. The former model – pictured before her child was taken away – said this only came after weeks of painfully slow communications.

John Scott, a leading human rights lawyer and chairman of the Howard League for Penal Reform in Scotland, said: "Dungavel is now a name like Guantanamo in the field of human rights. While the conditions may be those of "a three-star hotel" and there is no interrogation or torture, it represents an outpost of questionable ethics, foisted upon the Scottish people and yet not properly accountable to us.

"Given the drip-feed of stories like this one that have come out of Dungavel for the past six or seven years, it is clear we need to find a different and more humane way of dealing with people like Ms Bonhomme."

She has been in Dungavel for five weeks, since having her daughter taken from her as she boarded a ferry to Scotland in Belfast.

Ms Bonhomme accepts her visa had expired, but insists it was an honest mistake – and that she now has no intention of staying in Scotland and wants to return to Canada.

"Yes, I was arrested on immigration grounds because my visa had expired and I was renewing my passport – but the brutality of how I was treated and being separated from my daughter is beyond cruelty," she wrote. "A member of staff told me that I could be here for two years and I just could not stop shivering with fear and panic."

Mr Scott said: "It appears we choose to treat badly those who cannot fend for themselves. To that end, the closure of Dungavel should happen in order that we are forced to treat people as we should."

Church representatives have in the past joined protests outside Dungavel, in Lanarkshire, and yesterday they reiterated their demand for it to close. A spokesman for the Catholic Church in Scotland said: "It is almost inconceivable that conditions such as we are now hearing about can exist in 21st-century democratic Scotland.

"They display an alarming disregard of any consideration for human dignity. Immigration is a reserved power, but maybe the time has come for a Scottish solution for a humanitarian scandal on our soil."

Ian Galloway, convener of the Church of Scotland's church and society council, said: "The Church has consistently expressed deep concern about aspects of asylum policy and the conditions in which people are held in Dungavel. The General Assembly has called on Her Majesty's Government to close Dungavel for use by families and children.

"We would also encourage the Scottish Government to do everything in its power to influence the UK government in its practices in this matter."

Ms Bonhomme told The Scotsman of the frustrating bureaucracy inside Dungavel, the difficulty in finding a phone to get a solicitor – often only to find they were all "oversubscribed" – and the lack of any idea of what was happening with her case, because immigration and the Home Office appeared to have problems with communicating effectively.

Detailing the emotional impact of her detention, she said: "I am scared that I am becoming invisible and no-one knows I am here. I feel quite suicidal and only the thought of Fi keeps me going. It is shocking and very emotionally draining to be locked in the system, and locked up with your tools of communication taken away or blunted."

John Wilkes, the chief executive of the Scottish Refugee Council, said: "Detention, even for a short period, is traumatic and inhumane and can have a serious impact on the physical and mental health of the children and families involved, and also on the wider community they leave behind. It is hard to see how it exists in a 21st-century Scotland.

"The Scottish government has spoken out firmly against the detention of children. Scottish Refugee Council has proposed alternatives to the Home Office. It is time for the Home Office to act and end this inhumane practice before more vulnerable people suffer unnecessarily as a result."

Aamer Anwar, a solicitor who has campaigned against the detention of families in Dungavel, said: "Dungavel has been shown to be dehumanising and barbaric. In opposition, the SNP called for its closure and are now in power. It is time to show this country still has a conscience."

A spokesman for the UK Border Agency said: "We do not comment on individual cases. The government has made clear immigration detention is a measure of last resort and alternatives must be considered before a decision to detain is reached. Such detention is not, therefore, a matter of routine. Detention plays a vital role in maintaining an effective immigration control."

Years of controversy over site for '24-hour psychological terror'

DUNGAVEL removal centre has been a constant target of criticism since it was first used to lock up failed asylum seekers nearly seven years ago.

The treatment of people detained at the former prison has triggered a fierce campaign to close the Lanarkshire facility.

Close Dungavel Now says men, women and children are "psychologically terrorised 24 hours a day" in what is, in effect, a prison, despite having committed no crime.

The psychological impact of incarcerating immigrants was highlighted four years ago, after a Vietnamese man took his own life at Dungavel.

Concern has also focused on the experience of entirely innocent children kept there, often having been snatched from their homes in terrifying dawn raids.

Scottish ministers have repeatedly spoken out about the incarceration of children at Dungavel, sometimes alongside hardened foreign criminals.

Last year, it emerged that Dungavel was being used to house money-launderers, fraudsters, paedophiles and rapists.

Child trafficker Gilbert Deya – the preacher extradited to Kenya who claimed to be able to make couples fertile through prayer – was a Dungavel detainee.

The Scottish Government has no direct say over Dungavel, as immigration matters are decided at Westminster. The centre is operated by a private security firm on behalf of the Borders and Immigration Agency, an arm of the UK government.

There were more than 120 children detained at Dungavel, Scotland's only detention centre for foreigners, in 2006, slightly up on the year before.

There are growing calls to close Dungavel and instead accommodate failed asylum seekers and their children in open, hotel-style accommodation.

Fiona Hyslop, the education secretary, has held talks with Home Office minister Liam Byrne over a possible alternative to Dungavel.

In a critical report published in 2005, Anne Owers, the Chief Inspector of Prisons, described provision for children at the centre as "inadequate".

She said she was "extremely concerned" about the welfare of children in all Britain's immigration removal centres.

Dungavel was also criticised for the lack of legal advice given to detainees, with only half of them saying that they had a legal representative.

However, in a separate report last year penned by Ms Owers, the 190-capacity Dungavel was described as "the best-run immigration removal centre we have inspected".

She said 3 per cent of detainees reported verbal or physical racial abuse, compared with up to 12 per cent at other removal centres.

Michael Howie
'We need to know that no-one is left there forgotten and unhelped'

IT WAS with a sense of shame but, sadly not surprise, that I read in The Scotsman yesterday about the plight of Canadian citizen Corellie Bonhomme, held at Dungavel Removal Centre in the heart of Scotland.

Immigration is not a devolved area. Nonetheless, some of our MSPs have questioned practices in Dungavel, especially the detention of children. Our Children's Commissioner pointed out that, devolved matter or not, the locking up of children was a proper concern for us all wherever it happens.

From our MPs, however, we tend to get the party line about the need for a firm immigration policy, with everything else said to flow inevitably from that. The recently reinstated practice of dawn raids to lock up families is similarly shrugged off by politicians who want to be seen as tough on immigration. Often the parents are blamed for what happens to the children. For those with a conscience, it is not so easy to slip off responsibility.

Ms Bonhomme's daughter is not locked up with her. She is in care and will remain there while her mother is locked up to await an inevitable removal from our country, a removal which she herself wants. Ms Bonhomme is an articulate woman who speaks English and yet she has struggled to obtain what should be regarded as basic rights for those in such a situation. Think how much worse is the plight of those without her persistence and advantages. We need to know exactly who is in Dungavel and why they are there. We need to know that no-one is left there forgotten and unhelped.

Otherwise, we cannot be satisfied that our immigration laws are being applied fairly, as they ought to be. The only way to be satisfied about this is to have an independent investigation. Transgressing our immigration laws does not entitle us to punish people by preventing access to legal advice or other contact with the outside world, and yet this seems to be what is happening in our name.

If Ms Bonhomme wants to return to Canada, she should be allowed to go on the next flight.

• John Scott is a leading human rights lawyer and director of the League for Penal Reform in Scotland.

Commenting on this article has now closed. Thanks for your contributions.

The full article contains 1707 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Navvy,

03/06/2008 00:36:54
too many unmentioned aspects to this story. Why did it take the Canadians so long to get involved? A phone call to their high commission in London should have fixed it in a day

Scotland has so many home grown unresolved social issues that this one, poor though it is, pales into insignificance

Just look at the other stories today. Strong nasty lage at 25p

Kids barely legal to drive crashing cars with 4 up

These are the daily issued we should be getting worked up about
2

Jock MacSprog,

03/06/2008 00:38:55
ridiculous story, trying to cloud the facts with emotive nonsenses. Unlike a prison or Guantanmo, these people can walk out the door anytime they want, they just have to go back to their home country. Britian is an easy mark for economic migrants who all cry human rights and threat of murder if they go home. Then why do they pass through 5 other EU countrys to get here to claim asylum ? Because our benefits and politically correcty, permissive society make us the most attractive place for those looking to play the system.
3

Jock MacSprog,

03/06/2008 00:48:43
something doesnt smell right with this womans story. If she had been working here legally here for 14 years with a visa she would have been granted indefinite leave to remain after only 3 years. She asks why she was not released and says "what do they think I would go to ground and dissappear ?" why yes darling, because hundreds of thousands of you law breaking immigration evaders have done that in recent years and are now out there never to be found again.
4

Evia,

03/06/2008 00:52:45
I am sick and tired of hearing how awful Dungavel is but the people there have only themselves to blame. for whatever reason she came here, this is not the first safe country. Most of these people have come to live off our taxes and cry holy murder when they get deported.
5

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 00:53:30
Yet another exagerated tale! How many times do I have to say that I am going to quit reading this wretched rag before I actually quit reading this wretched rag?
6

subrosa,

03/06/2008 00:55:36
I tend to agree with the other posters. Something not quite right and the do-gooders are shouting far too much. What about the elderly who are neglected in this country and have worked all their lives and paid taxes? They also have fences round them but they're invisible so nobody cares.

How irresponsible not to keep a visa up to date - especially when travelling with a young child.

Too many missing facts here.
7

Jock MacSprog,

03/06/2008 00:59:06
a quick google search reveals that there is more to this woman than the Scotsman cared to reveal in its story. http://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/archive/n100403_5.htm

She has had 3 Children taken away from her and put into care in Camden London and Dumfries due to concerns about her abilities to care for them. These cases go back to at least 2003 and probably before. She has at least 2 other kids. These would have all be interesting facts to include in the story, but would have ruined the " big bad immigration people took my baby away" aspect that was designed to tug at our heart strings. Lets have the full story on this woman Scotsman !
8

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 01:05:14
Another article using its publicity to tell emotive lies to further the liberal agenda, you can't get bogged down by this fairytale gone wrong Dungavel serves a purpose and, an important one.
Good riddance to the parasites who inhabit the fences' interior.

It comes of no surprise that this article is written by the estrogen junkie that is Shan Ross........
9

An Beal Bacht,

03/06/2008 01:28:58
"Why this woman's story shames Scotland"

She is held in a UK facility under UK laws. So how does that shame Scotland? Perhaps the headline should read:

"How this paper's fabrications shame Scotland"
10

Dougie, Edinburgh,

03/06/2008 01:37:45
If Dungavel were to be closed, Scotland would become even more of a magnet than it already is for the billions of people who have messed up their own countries and want to start on ours.
11

Fifi la Bonbon,

03/06/2008 01:48:29
Why didn't the reporter cover this lady's interesting history with child protection social workers?

Why didn't "leading human rights lawyer" John Scott mention his previous involvement in her case in 2006? I read his piece as implying this was the first time he had come across her.

It was very easy to google her name and learn all these things. The reporter doesn't mention her "past", and I agree that this is probably because it would get in the way of a good rant against the removal centre. But the reporter got caught, and it was all so easy to do.

I am usually a defender of the Scotsman but really, the Editor needs to get his finger out.
12

Cammy,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 02:26:07
It seems that the readers are more informed than the journalist who cut this together.

I must admit it seemed impossible that something like this could happen in this country. It's pleasing that the posters here could reassure me that this nonsense was not the whole truth, and nothing like the truth.


I find it difficult to understand how the Scotsman has somehow degenerated in recent times into this "Red Top Rag". Big on stories, short on the real facts. Especially when it's used to be such a quality publication.
13

Maisie from Morningside,

03/06/2008 03:48:56
The real "shame" in this story is the gullibility of the do gooders.
The Scotsman should be experienced in the scams and excuses of illegal immigrants, dole fiddlers, shoplifters and arsonists.
We are - so stop fawning over the undeserving.
14

celtic4,

USA 03/06/2008 03:51:24
One wonders why she just did not go to NYC and get lost in the shuffle like so many other illegals do?
Again,at risk of redundency, too many left out facts in this story. Glad #7 set me straight. Thanks.
15

MarkR,

USA 03/06/2008 03:57:02
So maybe now you'll know to question stories about Guantanamo - they come from the same sources.
16

Kingston,

Singapore 03/06/2008 05:31:25
She is very lucky it's Scotland! Try over staying in more distant countries!

If she is Canadian she has the full protection of the Canadian Government and the British authorities.

The facts in this story have been badly distorted.

The only shame is on the "scotsman" for allowing such a manipulative article.
17

SassyC,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 06:24:27
What if the boot had been on the other foot and it was a Scots person trying to enter Canada with a failed visa? Would it have been open-hostel type accommodation then? Who is going to pay for this hostel accommodation - the sorely pressed taxpayer again? There needs to be a coherent immigration system for Scotland and the UK. Much as we might want to we cannot throw your doors open to every one who wants to come and live here. The system as it is cannot support everyone - look at the reality. Taxes increasing on a regular basis, education system not coping, not enough houses to go round. Until all these issues are dealt with then common sense must prevail. Look at other Countries elsewhere in the World - operating immigration policies which work. Are they swayed by emotive journalism? We are now seen as the place to be - come here illegally, get money and accommodation for doing so and a Lawyer to squeal on your behalf..... Why on earth would anyone want to try and live anywhere else?
18

SassyC,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 06:24:27
What if the boot had been on the other foot and it was a Scots person trying to enter Canada with a failed visa? Would it have been open-hostel type accommodation then? Who is going to pay for this hostel accommodation - the sorely pressed taxpayer again? There needs to be a coherent immigration system for Scotland and the UK. Much as we might want to we cannot throw your doors open to every one who wants to come and live here. The system as it is cannot support everyone - look at the reality. Taxes increasing on a regular basis, education system not coping, not enough houses to go round. Until all these issues are dealt with then common sense must prevail. Look at other Countries elsewhere in the World - operating immigration policies which work. Are they swayed by emotive journalism? We are now seen as the place to be - come here illegally, get money and accommodation for doing so and a Lawyer to squeal on your behalf..... Why on earth would anyone want to try and live anywhere else?
19

kwg1,

Tucson, AZ USA 03/06/2008 06:41:26
I am pleased to see the vast majority of comments reflecting the dubious veracity of this article. The Guantanamo comparison is lame on its face. I wonder if for better impact at enraging those who imbibe this tripe without question, the author might have also been thinking of using a comparison to one of the Nazi concentration camps.

I guess the print media in both our countries leave a lot to be dserired when a reader is looking for truth and balance.

What we get is a shaping of opinion through fabrication and distortion of fact! And this for the sole purpose of a private political agenda not for the benefit of the people of either country!
20

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 03/06/2008 06:53:09
I note the references to "vulnerable women" and "a former model".

They seem to imply that people's sex and appearance are relevant in relation to how much concern they deserve.

I hope I'm not the only one who finds that implication disturbing.
21

UrbanFox,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 07:10:24
Yes. subrosa #6 makes a telling comment about the invisible elderly. And what about all the people who are terrorised in their homes because of young thugs?
22

,

03/06/2008 07:17:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

JohnnyD,

HADDINGTON 03/06/2008 07:18:08
SHAME on "The Scotsman", for being so headline grabbing.
Print the whole story or nothing at all.
In fact, why not get your reporter to do some research and print a follow up tomorrow.
No I don't suppose that will happen will it.

The truth is always "Out there"
24

Brigantes,

03/06/2008 07:28:18
She is a serial sponger:

http://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/archive/n100403_5.htm

The link proves it.
25

,

03/06/2008 07:29:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
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26

JohnnyD,

HADDINGTON 03/06/2008 07:35:34
Just as a matter of interest, has anyone noticed that cooking oil is now about the same price as petrol?
27

Louis Catorze,

03/06/2008 07:48:48
"Ms Bonhomme accepts her visa had expired...."

That's all you need to know.

Ms Bonhomme gives all the legal, hard working immigrants who come here a bad name.

Having said that, it does seem that a few postera above are as guilty as the Scotsman in selectively using facts to their own ends. The Camden New Journal article quoted states that Camden council had to apologise to Ms Bonhomme for wrong accusations concerning her children.

She is undoubtably a bit feckless though. Shame he has to take the mick out the people of this country whilst being so.

28

Gilmartin,

Philippines 03/06/2008 07:54:47
So this is what Churchill and our fathers fought for? To turn our nation into a dumping ground for the flotsam of the Third World while our own pensioners cannot afford to heat their home properly?
29

LEAL,

03/06/2008 08:04:17
#28 The price of cooking oil(aka bio-deisel)will of course follow the price of fuel oil.Supply and demand.
On the subject of Dungavel,I think it is ridiculous that the London government cant get a grip of illegal immigration.This is an island.Its time Holyrood got responsibility for immigration because the Scottish government is capable,where as the London govt is incompetent in every field you care to mention.
The Scotsmans reporting of this story is very,very week.
30

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News 03/06/2008 08:05:21
"A member of staff told me that I could be here for two years and I just could not stop shivering with fear and panic."

As a taxpayer, the above statement has *me* shivering with fear & panic. Surely it has to be cheaper to buy her (and her children) a flight back to Canada.
31

,

03/06/2008 08:08:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
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32

LAM,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 08:09:55
Interesting but obviously very twisted story.. If we are to believe she really is a Canadian ..they (we) don't need visa to come to Scotland..as Scots dont need visa to visit Canada. Having worked for immigration for many years ...her story is very fishy. People do make honest mistakes ...but to lock her up.. there is a reason... same goes to putting child into care while she is locked up. Much easier for system to have her look after her own child within the facility... once again must be a reason. Usually it has to do with flight risk,or ability to look after child.. and they wouldnt be referring her hoping on a plane to Canada... they obviously think she will go underground here... from her past performance. I also have to wonder if she is a Canadian national..why she hasn't been shipped back yet... much cheaper to live there and they have a hold out your hands for freebies policy too. Sounds more like she is or was a Canadian resident (difference) and by being away from Canada so long she technically has lost her right to that residency.. thus our immigration may be trying to determine where they can legally send her back too without getting her shipped back to us again. As a good possibility Canada doesnt want her if not a citizen they legally dont need to do anything for her or take her back... Knowing all the pieces would have made the story more plausible.
33

Iain's,

Barcelona 03/06/2008 08:11:56
Corellie Bonhomme is not white and does not wear a red jacket and wear a funny hat. She is NOT a lumberjack and is obviously not "all right".

If she had been white, this was not have happened.

You all know how to stop these filthy civil servants.

Vote them out!
34

The Trossachs Hasher,

03/06/2008 08:14:38
Oooooooooo - Scotsman!! You really have got this wrong haven't you?

No wonder newspaper circulation is dropping like a stone if this is the sort appalling journalism it sells itself on.

Newspapers have always had their own agendas, but when it is so transparently skewed and biased and the facts are so easily found out, the editors of the Scotsman should really sit down and have a long hard talk with themselves.

If they REALLY want to survive, they should start printing stories that truly reflect feeling on current issues and be seen to support them.

RIP the Scotsman.
35

It's me!,

03/06/2008 08:22:17
Poorly researched story in a poor quality newspaper. Little surprise it could soon be sold. If it is the best thing the new owner could do is sack the existing reporting and editorial staff and hire new who report the news rather than print yet more dubious agendum.
36

JohnnyD,

HADDINGTON 03/06/2008 08:25:11
Skin colour?
Red jacket?
Funny hat?

comment 35 get a life.
Or get a funny jacket and a painted face.
That way you will sound and look like a clown.
37

scottish person,

paisley 03/06/2008 08:25:33
Why does the Scotsman not realise that immigration is a Westminster problem. Miss out Dungavel and send them all home, we dont need or want them. 5 children to ten different men!!!!
38

JohnnyD,

HADDINGTON 03/06/2008 08:27:40
But surely there is no TAX on cooking oil.
39

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 08:29:26
She is a right chancer! Scotsman and google journalism! Sheesh!

"One Egg Roll for the jounalists, forget the roll, forget the plate, just place on face"
40

JohnnyD,

HADDINGTON 03/06/2008 08:29:42
I wonder if that is her real name?
41

Mike Masterton,

03/06/2008 08:30:37
I'm sick of these story's, Jock MacSprog got it right
as did other's.Soft touch Britain !
Don't like it ...offsky
42

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 08:32:02
Look at edinburgh. The amount of crack and grass dealers peddling openly on the streets. All here on student visas!
Nice little business move.

fcuking laughable! We really are bottom of the food chain and a bunch of right soft pansies.
43

,

03/06/2008 08:32:04
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44

JohnnyD,

HADDINGTON 03/06/2008 08:35:10
Then again, she may be smart enough for herself.

No work, no stress, no bills, no screaming kids to look after.
45

thinking,

Scotland 03/06/2008 08:35:50
This story is confusing. At first it sounds as though her daughter was taken away in Dungavel
'..who told of her despair inside Dungavel, and of how she was pinned down by immigration officials and had her two-year-old daughter, Fi, snatched from her.'
Then it says her daughter was taken away as she boarded a ferry from Belfast
'She has been in Dungavel for five weeks, since having her daughter taken from her as she boarded a ferry to Scotland in Belfast.'
If her daughter was taken in Belfast, why did she come to Scotland?
46

JohnnyD,

HADDINGTON 03/06/2008 08:39:07
Hit the nail on the head there.
Very confusing.
I find it hard to believe that police and welfare officers would remove a new born baby just as the cord was cut, if they did not have very good reason.
47

livilion,

livingston 03/06/2008 08:40:53
As immigration and nationality are both issues reserved to Westminster in what way does this woman's story reflect on Scotland?
Is the Scotsman suggesting that Holyrood should be given these responsibilities?

No I couldn't be ersed reading the article either.
48

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 08:40:55
"Why this woman's story shames Scotland" - Becasue we have rubbish journalists?

#47- She is quite frankly a selfish wee madame who thinks she can just pawn her kids of to social services left right and center. Where are her kids from cambden? Lets guess? errrrr..........in care?
49

,

03/06/2008 08:41:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
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50

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 08:44:05
#22 - she could have went on a plane with her kids straight away, she's chancer , your an eejit! thanks for clearing that up.
51

tommy,

belfast uk 03/06/2008 08:45:11
Quote..Ms Bonhomme accepts her visa had expired, but insists it was an honest mistake – and that she now has no intention of staying in Scotland and wants to return to Canada..Unquote

So what is all the fuss about
making mountains out of molehills
52

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 08:47:02
#20 kwg1, Tucson - funny you should say that about comparisons with 'Nazi concentration camps'- that's exactly what's conveyed by a nasty little cartoon on the Letters page in the print edition! This is a shameful piece of propaganda masquerading as 'News' - the 'Journalist' and sub-editor responsible should be sacked before 'Der Schotte' sinks out of sight.
53

paulr,

edinburgh 03/06/2008 08:48:40
As normal the bleeding heart dogooders scream and shout to ensure that the facts cannot be heard.
As a Canadian citizen one call to the high commision should have sorted her problems, the Canadian government are pretty good at looking after their own, a lot of this story just does not hold up.
54

,

03/06/2008 08:48:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
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55

Calum Crubag,

03/06/2008 08:51:40
#56 - Tin Man. Good to see someone full of the milk of human kindness.

Just wait until flat England becomes permantently flooded and millions of Sasannaich are seeking new homes or 'asylum'. We already have thousands of 'Brits' abroad simply because they don't like the weather - not because of poverty or repression.

With England and maybe parts of Scotland becoming more and more flooded, how soon before we are the asylum seekers?
56

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 08:55:26
#57 - He (56)Would rather New Labour let in anyone with a really flimsy story. No wonder we are currently in the toilet.
57

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 08:59:44
Moderator. If you are going to moderate comments please give a valid reason. Anyone else would think your papers running scared. Employing the tactics of New Labour will not help you, only hinder your papers stretched allready credibility.
58

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:02:01
#45 - Moderator. you removed my comment for saying the journalism of this paper is highlighted as poor because of the lack of balance and research and you removed my comment. That is blatant censorship. So much for your Editor Alan "valuing" freedom of speech. Laughable!
59

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 09:03:57
And thaks to Jock #7 for that link - appears this woman has been having 'problems with the welfare authorities' (in the UK) since 1999! Wonder if all her children (not quite sure how many there are) have the same surname? I see the censor's getting busy, too - can't have the left wing liberal consensus getting upset.
60

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:04:24
Moderator. You never ever moderate AM2, but then again he's part of the inhouse thread agitation team.
61

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:06:30
I think the Scotsman requires another protest to be organised outside their office. The Editor averted it last time in february by stalling us, fooled once , shame on you, fooled twice shame on us!

See you outside your offices!
62

voltaire's janny,

03/06/2008 09:10:02
This was an interesting story; my sympathies based on presumed verisimiltude of the article would have been with the woman, had I not followed the link #7.

The salutory lesson learned, is that the Hootsmon is not merely biased or editorialising, nor even incompetent. There are deliberate material ommissions here which only fuel the paranoia of those who are dismissive of human rights and the plight of migrants whatever their status.

Shame on you Scotsman!
63

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:17:12
Why this woman's story shames Scotland
Published Date: 03 June 2008
By Shan Journalist.
64

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:18:11
Moderators been quiete. Must be getting his P45, or a lesson from Goebells on "spin"
65

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 03/06/2008 09:20:18



USA JAIL - SOME INTERESTING READING
TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF (ARIZONA) AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.


These are some of the reasons why:



Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the 'tent city jail' to save Arizona from spending tens of millions of dollars on another expensive prison complex.

He has jail meals down to 20 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He banned smoking and pornographic magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but 'G' movies. He says:
'They're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave.'



He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.



Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel, he replied: 'So these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.'
He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, 'This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back.'
He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd 2
66

Miss H,

03/06/2008 09:39:03
If these people think that immigration and asylum should not be controlled by Westminster they need to come out in support of Scottish independence. End of story. Westminster is not going to give up control of this voluntarily.

Incidentally to all those who are querying this woman's story - how do you think Dungavel works? Do you think people can just pick up a phone and call Canada to have it sorted? Get real. People who find themselves at the wrong end of the immigration system have no rights and no control over what happens to them. You are presumed guilty. That's the way it works.
67

SteveSC,

West Lothian 03/06/2008 09:39:23
There MUST be more to this case than we are given here (good work on the Google search #7). It is usually very quick and easy to get an emergency passport to go home. I suspect there is more to the romoval of the child than just the immigration issue. We need more information to come to a rational conclusion about how the system works yet this article is clearly prompting the us to conclude that it is morally wrong to force people who are here illegally to leave.

When newspapers do more than just copy comments from campaining groups I might be prepared to pay money for them again.
68

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 09:39:32
All these comments trying to portray this woman as an illegal immigrant from a third world country are completely ridiculous.

If she is from Canada then quite clearly she is not from a third world country (Canada is consistently ranked higher than the UK in terms of quality of life for instance).

#26 Brigantes:

"She is a serial sponger. The link proves it."

Nowhere in the link is there any mention of her claiming benefits, or being an illegal immigrant or asylum seeker, so the link in no way proves she is a 'serial sponger'.

69

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:44:25
#70 to quote your own words :"If she is from Canada then quite clearly she is not from a third world country (Canada is consistently ranked higher than the UK in terms of quality of life for instance).
"
Why do you think they have a better quality of life? They don't accept spongers.VOILA!
70

Miss H,

03/06/2008 09:46:40
69 Of course there will be more to her life than is disclosed but the point of the story is that she was arrested because she could not provide a valid visa and passport while travelling internally within the UK.

Why did she end up in Dungavel? Because she could not provide those documents and she is black. The assumption therefore is that she is an illegal immigrant.
71

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:47:34
#70 - all these words are actually highlight she is from a wealthy country, who would no t tolerate her behaviour and is a serial chancer.
72

Donald McGoogle,

03/06/2008 09:48:33
#72 was she struck dumb? her accent would be a good sign ?
73

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 09:49:20
#71

Your point is completely irrelevant to what I was saying. I was saying that it is wrong to imply this woman is a third world illegal immigrant.
74

Walter Ego,

Durness 03/06/2008 09:53:55
From the views expressed on this forum, I do not like the look of Scotland in 2008. Where is your humanity?
75

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 09:54:51
#73

"all these words are actually highlight she is from a wealthy country, who would not tolerate her behaviour and is a serial chancer."

So you have personally spoken to the Canadian government and know 100% that they 'would not tolerate her behaviour' and that they think she is a 'serial chancer'?

No of course you haven't so don't start saying complete and utter rubbish that you have no evidence to prove, you have no idea about the background to her life.

#72

"was she struck dumb? her accent would be a good sign?"

Are you completely ignorant? Just as not everyone who lives in Scotland has a Scottish accent, so not everyone from Canada has a Canadian accent.

Also I'm pretty sure immigratation officials don't base their decisions on whether someone has a particular accent or not - you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
76

LAM,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 09:56:17
#67 Sounds like a really horrible place to be...however as you say they are in jail not on holiday. Thats something I have never been able to get my head around.. Criminals no matter how horrible a crime.. have their gyms, their cable tv, get to wear there own clothes in some jails and some even get their own room for protection because they were so bad heavens.. someone might hurt them. Then there is higher eduction at tax payers costs... Does sound like something wrong with picture... Somehow this doesn't stress to the criminals that this is where bad people go... so clean up your act and if you don't want to come back.
77

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 03/06/2008 09:58:15
2 3 7

Wow McSprog its easy to see why you support this union. Goes right along side yer compassion understanding reasoning and broad minded outlook on life. I would rather live in a country with a thousand immigrants like Correllie than a single blinkered biggoted idiot like you.
Its people like you who cause more problems and misery than a thousand immigrants illegal or not.
You got one thing right though we definatly dont have the full story by any means.
78

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 03/06/2008 10:03:07
76

Couldnt agree more Walter.
79

birdman,

edinburgh 03/06/2008 10:03:32
Illegal imigrant means ANYONE in a country without the correct paper work.

I am sure, if the people spouting on about human rights asked the majority of the people being cared for in Dungavel if the would rather be there or returned to their country of origin; the only other available option; they would prefer Dungavel.

An earlier corespondent says it's like a three star hotel,if that's the case should we not be petitioning OUR government to build more of these places for th many people of OUR country who are living in poverty.
80

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 03/06/2008 10:11:26
81

Half the people living in this country legally dont have the correct "paper work" bet this blog brings out the best in the biggots within our society posting here today.
81

Miss H,

03/06/2008 10:15:25
73 And you know this how? Let me guess - because she was sent to Dungavel by mistake ergo she must be a scrounger because only scroungers are sent to Dungavel.

It's the same mentality that used to duck witches. If you floated you were guilty, if you drowned you were innocent.

Yes the witch-hunting mentality is alive and well in some parts of Scotland.
82

Gail, New Zealand,

Christchurch 03/06/2008 10:21:06
The comments posted about the detainee and the reporter reveal the disturbing mentality of those who are only brave enough to hunt in packs. You get the distinct impression it would not matter what the issue was, or who wrote about it, they just want to put the boot into someone not in a position to defend themselves. Hundreds of Scots have visa problems every year, and few of them are little angels, yet we'd be asking questions too if one was detained in Canada under these conditions.
83

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 03/06/2008 10:30:30
Of course we need immigration detention centres. This is a small island and it simply beggars belief that we cannot control our own borders; I mean, how hard can it be?

It's incredible to see the number of bleeding heart liberals in here who pretty much seem to think that we should just throw the doors open and let everybody in.
84

subrosa,

03/06/2008 10:34:02
# 76

Walter, my humanity is alive and well but the needs of the indigenous population come first.

I can't comment on Dungavel as I've never seen the place, but I can comment on the many pensioners in my area who can't even afford a bath because of rising fuel bills. Goodness knows what will happen when the colder weather comes.

As for people in places such as Dungavel, the taxpayers pay for them. They have no costs like out pensioners. Dungavel residents aren't going to get their electricity or gas cut off because they can't pay. In fact I doubt if any of the pensioners I know could afford the ferry fare from Belfast to Scotland even if they saved up forever.

The story stinks and for it to be the main headline shows the level of journalism this once great newspaper has now reached.
85

Koffindodger,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 10:37:49
I was initially horrified at this womans treatment in Dungavel (and still have serious misgivings about the place) but when I got to my office and googled her name up popped this long running battle she appears to be having keeping her kids out of social services.

Camden-Dumfries-dungavel whats the deal?

She seems very unlucky, what's the social workers problem with her? Could someone please tell us; I would like to base part of my opinion on that fact.
86

,

03/06/2008 10:40:33
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87

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 10:40:43
#85

"It's incredible to see the number of bleeding heart liberals in here who pretty much seem to think that we should just throw the doors open and let everybody in."

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't see any posts where someone is saying 'we should just throw the doors open and let everybody in'. Perhaps you could point me to the posts you are refering to? Or are you just making a wild generalisation with no evidence to back up what you say?
88

Miss H,

03/06/2008 10:41:23
85 can you read?

This woman does not want to stay in Scotland. She wants to get out and back to Canada as soon as she can be released.

And who can blame her?
89

,

03/06/2008 10:45:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
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90

,

03/06/2008 10:46:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
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91

Logie Almond,

03/06/2008 10:47:44
Everyone in Dungavel including this woman is there because they have been lying through their teeth. We don't want every chancer, conman and criminal in the world to end up in this country because wea are such a soft touch.
92

,

03/06/2008 10:49:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
93

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 10:52:09
#93

"Everyone in Dungavel including this woman is there because they have been lying through their teeth. We don't want every chancer, conman and criminal in the world to end up in this country because wea are such a soft touch."

What is the point of making wildly inaccurate accusations unsupported by any evidence or facts?

You have no specific details or proof of why anyone is Dungavel so making ridiculous generalisations such as your comments above just serve to portray you as someone who cannot be taken seriously.
94

Think First ,

Scotland 03/06/2008 10:52:11
The standard The Scotsman journalism is slowly but surely joining the other gutter press such as News of the world, Daily Star and The Sun by cheap headlines and trying to sensationalise a non story to try and sell which used to be a great news paper

What next Page 3 girls!

Come on Scotsman you can do better than this rubbish.
95

,

03/06/2008 10:58:10
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96

,

03/06/2008 11:00:11
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97

,

03/06/2008 11:01:03
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98

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03/06/2008 11:06:55
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99

Harry Truscot,

Greenhithe 03/06/2008 11:07:26
What a lamentably feeble piece. The journo responsible for this non-story (llegal immigrant is er, detained)needs to think about a new career. The adherence to fashionable trends to paint everyone who isn't a white male as by definition, a victim of some description or other gives the poor helpless "vulnerable former model" two extra bites at the victimhood cherry.

It's curious that someone employed as a professional writer appears to be incapable of presenting facts in and appears to feel the need to skew a straightforward story with what appears to be a personal agenda. This trash has no place in any decent responsible newspaper.
100

Mikko,

rumnadrochit 03/06/2008 11:08:25
#89 I did indeed say that the liberals in here "pretty much seem to think that we should just throw the doors open and let everybody in." Note the word "seem". That is certainly the impression given.

#90 Yes I can read thank you. If this woman so badly wanted to go back to Canada then why did she overstay her visa? Don't be so naive by believing any old Tom, Dick or Harry's bleeding heart sob story.
101

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 11:16:21
#102

Perhaps you could refrain from making accusations based on 'the impression given' by other posters and base your accusations on facts and real evidence?

Thankfully I don't make statements based on the impression I am given from other posters, otherwise if I did I would say you were a bigot and a racist based on the impression you give me.
102

Miss H,

03/06/2008 11:18:56
102 Well let’s think about that Nikko. The woman was travelling internally within the UK. She wasn’t trying to sneak into the country, she was already here. Her visa has expired so she is arrested, thrown into prison, has her child taken away from her and it takes 5 weeks for her to be able to contact her own government to seek assistance.

It’s not really surprising that she can’t wait to get out of the country now is it?

Let’s just hope that the story does not receive any publicity in Canada because I don’t think it will do us much good to be seen as a Stasi-style state where people can just disappear because their papers are not in order.

I know a lot of people would actually like that to be the case – provided the people who disappear are brown of course - but it’s kind of embarrassing.
103

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 03/06/2008 11:20:26
#103 Are but you obviously seem to think it. Why not say what you honestly feel about other people's postings rather than bottle it all up? You may feel better and then at least we can all deal with real opinions rather than this politically correct "I dare not offend anyone" claptrap.
104

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 11:22:18
I have to say, I'm a bit taken aback by some of the comments on this story. It strikes me this woman hasn't done anything particularly wrong here or in Camden, other than fall foul of the immigration rules. I am not disputing that these should exist and be enforced.

Contrary to some of the posters, the journalist has taken the trouble to contact the authorities. The response of the UK Border Agency was:

"We do not comment on individual cases. The government has made clear immigration detention is a measure of last resort and alternatives must be considered before a decision to detain is reached. Such detention is not, therefore, a matter of routine. Detention plays a vital role in maintaining an effective immigration control."

That seems fairly weak to me and justifies running the story.
105

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 03/06/2008 11:35:54
And all this on a morning where I read in another paper that Muslim extremists are no longer to be arrested and prosecuted but instead they are to be given therapy. The Home Secretary says she is giving £12.5 million for the project (and we all know where the money will go).

It's no wonder this country is laughed at and abused by so many people.

The £12.5 million should have gone to help pensioners heat their homes and Muslim extremists should be charged, given a fair trial, locked up and then deported. End of story.
106

Jock MacSprog,

03/06/2008 11:51:31
a few thoughts: Number 90, I think if you look at what this woman and many others are saying, its not that they want to be put on a plane and sent back to their home countries, they want to be let out of Dunvegan and for us to trust them to eventually get on a plane someday and go back, but not in any way monitored or escorted by the Gvt. and not immediatedly. The problem with trusting people who have already decided to break the law, is that literally hundreds of thousands have absconded out into the public with fake names, documents, etc and will never be found. Second thing, regarding the children aspect and sympathy etc. Of course any normal person has sympathy for those who warrant it and particularly for children who have been dragged into situations by their parents poor judgement, greed, mental health status, etc. The problem is the law breakers,chancers and economic migrants use this sympathy and their own children to play the system. The purposely put children in the mix to influence their treatment and the immigration decisions. In this womans case, where are the other 2 children (if not more that she has with various men ?) where is the husband (if any) and the father(s) of the children. Why is she not as desperate to be reunited or concerned about her other 2+ children ? The google search also revealed that this woman was reported a couple of years ago as a missing person and there was a search by police and her friends or family. Then it was called off when she appeared ? (BBC news website) something weird is going on with this woman and the Scotsman reporter and editor chose to ignore it or was too lazy to do any homework. Either way this is unacceptable journalism.
107

Walter Ego,

Durness 03/06/2008 11:55:02
Dungavel is a disgrace and a lot of the comments on here are a disgrace.
108

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 12:01:06
#108

"I think if you look at what this woman and many others are saying, its not that they want to be put on a plane and sent back to their home countries, they want to be let out of Dunvegan and for us to trust them to eventually get on a plane someday and go back, but not in any way monitored or escorted by the Gvt. and not immediatedly"

Where exactly does this woman say any of the above? Please don't make unsubstantiated accusations unless you have the proof to back them up.
109

sigholm,

ayr 03/06/2008 12:07:23
Don't believe a word these Liberal half-wits say about Dungavel.The inmates have a terrible attitude towards the staff.
Even though they are well provided for in food and furnishings, they still choose to live like pigs.Who else would choose to sh*t* in a hole in the floor rather than the W.C's provided.
It should be closed,shortening the process to get this crew back to where they belong.
110

boudica,

Glasgow 03/06/2008 12:14:17
106 "It strikes me this woman hasn't done anything particularly wrong here or in Camden, other than fall foul of the immigration rules" This woman has failed to mention all her other children within this article as have those supposedly advising her or taking issue with her treatment..You have to ask yourself " Why has she omitted the fact that she has other children ?"
Why are they no-longer in her care ?" I am sorry but the fact that she or those dealing with her fail on these points only show that she is to be viewed with suspicion as are those who are stating her " Case" and forgetting you have other children doesnt fit your comment "that this woman hasn't done anything particularly wrong here or in Camden," I think forgetting you have other children deposited around the country is atrocious
111

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 03/06/2008 12:20:54
these threads are usually full of sneery nationalists

this one if full of Daily Mail robots, heartless xenophobes. Hope it's not the same people.
112

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 12:23:11
112 Boudica.
When I spoke of "anything particularly wrong" I was referring to the requirements of the law. Mrs Bonhomme was not under any legal obligation to disclose information to a journalist about her other children, so your point is not relevant to my opinion.

Her objections appear to be that she was denied access to legal advice and the Canadian Consulate. It seems unreasonable that she should be denied this and the Border Agency spokesman did not comment on this. That justifies running the story.

I am not in a position to comment on her detention or judge her general truthfulness.
113

CTMountaineer,

03/06/2008 12:33:08
Let me get this straight... Scotland is in a self righteous mode and wants to feel morally superior by comparing your immigration enforcement to imprisonment of enemy combatants and spies? Interesting indeed.

Seems to me the solution is simple. Put them on a plane for Toronto. It's likely cheaper than keeping them in your three star hotel.
114

Tellen1,

03/06/2008 12:33:37
#112

"This woman has failed to mention all her other children within this article as have those supposedly advising her or taking issue with her treatment..You have to ask yourself why has she omitted the fact that she has other children ?"

This article is about the woman being detained within Dungavel and having immigration problems, what relevance does the fact she has other children
have to the article?

I'm sure neither she nor those advising her or writing the article have 'forgotten she has other children', they just realised her other children were nothing to do with the article or the issue whatsoever.

Or do you think every article on any issue should mention the number of children a person has?
115

Calum Crubag,

03/06/2008 12:36:54
Of course, sending this woman back would make our lives much better. All the beautful law abiding Scots could get on with drinking, fighting, vomiting, bleeding on and pishhing on the land that is left.

Until, all the Scots abroad come home.
116

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 12:41:32
#113
The stereotypical left winger: Can only resort to insults when faced with an overwhelming, contrary opinion.
117

Bo28,

Scotland 03/06/2008 12:44:46
Theres some double standards here.

First we have legislation that allows our own homegrown greedy employers to take on as many foreign workers as they can , cutting our own standards that have been built through tough times. And we have foreign shop owners having years tax free while we pay through the nose.

The entire system invites people to come and use this country.

Then, despite the sheer lunacy of the laws that allow everyone and their granny in here they lock people.

We live on an island. We are in a very rare position in this world to be able to utterly control through customs who enters and who doesnt, but we dont, because the drive is to take away national sovereignty.

Detention camps are going to play bigger and bigger roles for social problems, actually caused by rediculous policy, and may end up being seen as some kind of solution.........anyone see a parallel?
118

Miss H,

03/06/2008 12:50:23
112 She didn’t write the article Boudicca so she's not responsible for what's in it - but it’s a good question.

We know she had her youngest with her when she was arrested. Since then she has been imprisoned so she probably has no more idea than you do of how things are with her other children.

It’s not like she is in a hotel – she can’t just pick up the phone and find out.

119

Graeme2,

Aberdeen 03/06/2008 12:56:56
Guys,

we seem to be missing the bigger picture here. While we remain part of the UK we have no power to VETO Westminister actions carried out on Scottish soil. So we will continue to be treated like exploitable children until we grow up, politically speaking!
120

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 03/06/2008 12:58:46
85

How many countries in the world have "Britains" entered illegally militarily and by force?
Aye we are in a real moral position when it comes to complaining about illegal immigration migration or by another name colonisation.
Its no accident that "English" is spoken in many lands other than its land of origin is it.
121

kimba,

03/06/2008 13:15:53
How on gods earth can this woman "FORGET" about her other children, if nothing else she is guilty of neglect!
122

Brigantes,

03/06/2008 13:31:50
#70 Tellen1,ok she finances her own stay with her huge bank account.Yes?
She's a sponger you dope.
123

Miss H,

03/06/2008 13:32:41
123 Who says she forgot about them?

Look at what happened to her. She is arrested, the child that is with her is taken away and she is thrown in Dungavel for 5 weeks before she manages to make contact with the Canadian authorities.

I imagine that the only reason she was able to contact the Scotsman is because they previously ran a story about her. This one:

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland/Mother-wins-fight-to-get.2784120.jp

You will notice that the same journalist wrote both stories so I am guessing Corellie had his/her contact details (not sure what gender 'Shan' is) and managed to get in touch by post (the journalist refers to her writing things.)

If she had not had a contact on the Scotsman who knows how much longer she would have been stuck in there without anybody knowing anything about it?




 
  

 
 

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