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Knife violence casts a dark shadow over T in the Park

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Published Date: 14 July 2008
A YOUNG reveller nearly died in a frenzied knife attack at Scotland's flagship music festival yesterday – in a weekend that saw no let-up in the current wave of knife crime.
Police described the attack at T in the Park as "horrific" after the 22-year-old victim was stabbed repeatedly in the head and body.

Meanwhile, two other men were stabbed to death in incidents south of the Border over the weekend, as Jacqui Smith
, the Home Secretary, prepared to announce tough new legislation to tackle knife crime.

The attacks come only days after Kenny MacAskill, the justice secretary, told The Scotsman of plans to bring in new sentencing guidelines for such offences.

Ms Smith will reveal a full package of measures in her long-awaited Youth Crime Bill tomorrow, while the Scottish Government has promised a range of initiatives to tackle "blade culture" in its forthcoming Criminal Justice Bill. Both bills will be scrutinised closely as knife crime moves up the political agenda.

Last night, the victim of the T in the Park attack was being treated in intensive care at Ninewells Hospital in Dundee for multiple stab wounds, as police hunted the two men believed to be responsible. Police said it was only the expertise of medics that saved his life.

The man was found in the campsite at Balado, near Kinross, at about 12:40am. Police appealed for anyone who found bloodstained clothing – or the weapon – to come forward.

It is understood the victim, who is from Glasgow but has not been named, had been trying to break up an argument at the campsite when he was attacked. It is thought another man had been found urinating on a woman's tent, sparking a row, and that the victim had been stabbed when he intervened. He staggered between tents and was later found lying near a hedge separating the blue and yellow camp areas.

Detective Chief Inspector Bruce Kerr, of Tayside Police, said: "This has been a horrific assault on a 22-year-old man. Whoever is responsible will undoubtedly have blood on their clothing.

"Initially, we were very concerned for the victim, but we have just been told that he is an a stable condition and out of danger. From what I have been told, the medical staff here (at Balado] played a very important part, and I'm led to believe had it not been for the experience of the doctor on site and treatment that the victim got, it may well have been a fatality."

Geoff Ellis, the festival director, said it was "obviously an isolated incident" but admitted that, while organisers were continually reviewing their security measures, it was impossible to guard against every eventuality.

George Kyle, the head of sponsorship for Tennents, said they did everything they could to encourage responsible drinking at the festival.

A source close to Alex Salmond, the First Minister, said carrying and using knives was "totally unacceptable", and that knife crime was "a real problem".

A spokeswoman for Scotland's national Violence Reduction Unit, said the country – and particularly the West of Scotland – had been blighted by knife crime for more than 40 years. "Sadly, attacks like these do happen," she said of the Balado incident. "They can have a devastating impact, not only on the victim and their family and friends but in the community as a whole."

The incident was the first stabbing in the festival's 15-year history and marred what had been a relatively trouble-free weekend, with only seven arrests prior to the attack. The scene remained cordoned off all day yesterday as a forensic examination was carried out.

Police said the first man they were looking for was white, in his late teens, 6ft 1in tall and skinny, with short, dark brown hair. He was wearing a white tracksuit top. The second man was white, about 5ft 8in tall, of medium build and with short, dark brown "mullet-style" hair. He was wearing a red tracksuit top.

Fans and performers said they had been horrified by the attack and sent their good wishes to the victim.

Scottish singer-songwriter Amy MacDonald, who was playing the main stage, said: "It is absolutely shocking. No-one should be carrying knives – it is a completely stupid thing to do."

The attack was the latest in a series of stabbings that have put knife crime to the forefront of the political agenda. Two more fatalities occurred over the weekend.

A man in his 40s died after being stabbed in the head and chest during an altercation in Bristol on Saturday night. He was named locally as Johnny Derrick, a father of two. Two men were in custody last night, being interviewed on suspicion of murder.

In another attack early yesterday, in Bolton, Paul Gilligan, who was in his 30s, was killed. A 19-year-old man from the town was arrested on suspicion of murder and remained in police custody last night.

After the attacks, Ms Smith said young people south of the Border who carry knives would be made to visit hospitals where stabbing victims were treated, in a bid to shock them into changing their behaviour.

However, opposition politicians criticised the proposal as "half-baked" and said those found with knives should simply be sent to prison.

Mike Jervis, chief executive of the Damilola Taylor Trust, which campaigns against knife crime, said it was essential to dispel the culture of fear that led youngsters to believe they had to carry a blade.

He said more work should be done in schools to educate pupils. While the charity believed anyone convicted of a stabbing attack should be jailed, he said it would be difficult to imprison anyone for carrying a knife, as the term was not clearly defined.

The Home Secretary's proposals will be outlined in more detail tomorrow when the government publishes its youth crime plan.

The Scottish Government said detailed anti-knife crime proposals would be released "in the near future" in the proposed Criminal Justice Bill.

• A 32-year-old man was found dead at T in the Park yesterday after an asthma attack – the first on-site fatality in the festival's history.





The full article contains 1042 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 July 2008 1:07 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Knife culture
 
1

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/07/2008 00:24:47
Scum.
2

Thorson ,

Peterborough , Ontario 14/07/2008 00:48:00
Check here ( Globe and Mail published in Ontario, Canada )

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080712.GANG12/TPStory

if you want to see how Scotland's reputation is being eroded by the recent climb in knife crimes.

I can't see too many foreign businesses wanting to expand to Scotland nor do I see many tourists flocking there if your country can't do something quickly to deal with its damning knife culture.
3

Mad Mike,

portola 14/07/2008 01:00:41
How about automobile violence, wooden club violence, or fly swatter attacks? Fisticuff violence? Let's ban it all
4

Royster,

14/07/2008 01:02:56
In response to the wave of stabbings, the Home Secretary has said the government will make the perpetrators meet with victims' relatives or visit Accident and Emergency wards. Sky News reported today that these were 'tough new measures'. Is that it? Our children are being slaughtered in the street and they want to educate people after the act instead of preventing it in the first place. There really needs to be a lot more in the way of deterrence. Also, how many people and billed man-hours will be needed to arrange for such trips? You have to a) find relatives that are willing to meet these sick people in the first place b) co-ordinate with prison staff c) co-ordinate with the NHS d) arrange for transport and extra security. Oh, and I assume a lawyer would have to present as well.
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 14/07/2008 01:10:43

The year MMVIII, and some still act worse than Animals!

Frenzied 'Headless Chickens' who see the News and follow suit!

Government must take extreme measures now! to wipe out this, 'Mental Killing Fad' that is sweeping our Nation! by the Few who are NOT worthy of living on our Planet!
6

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

14/07/2008 01:16:20
Clever Kenny MacAskill's drinking plan.

Charge over 50s an extra £1 per drink from supermarket.

Let Lager sponsior summer events for kids and fill said event with musical acts who act all hard and that, and are gangster and from the streets, innit.

Congratulations to Labour and the SNP for another life ruined.
7

Thorson ,

Peterborough , Canada 14/07/2008 01:25:29
#3 and #4
You obviously haven't read the article from the Canadian newspaper. Why is that the Scots spend so much time bragging -e.g how wonderful their scenery is and how they invented everything under the sun etc etc
and don't face up to reality. Myth-making or non-realism is "big" in Scotland. Could this be the reason why violent crime continues to grow.
If you read the article you'll see that the crime statistics in Scotland are in fact deplorable. There's no way of getting around them by referring to " 7 deaths in England over the weekend". Incidentally I just checked the crime statistics per capita in Naples, Italy - which has a repuation for crime of all kinds - and Glasgow's are worse.

BTW - In general the overseas tourist or business person considering a visit to Scotland has no way of knowing that knife crime is confined to gangs. All they can gather from the media is that crime is high in Scotland - and they stay away.
8

,

14/07/2008 01:41:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Guga II,

Rockall 14/07/2008 01:43:22
It's not just knives that are the problem, the neds and thugs use a variety of weapons, including cleavers, axes, hammers and iron bars.

The solution is simple. Anyone using any weapon to attack or hurt anyone should be given a minimum of 10 years and a maximum of life. Killing someone should be a minimum of 50 years, and a maximum of life.

However, that waste of space, Kenny MacAskill, will probably want to give them a good talking to instead, and maybe send them on an overseas holiday.
10

Julian.,

edinburgh 14/07/2008 02:28:03
#12 Thornton from Canada,

Funny that, because murder per capita is actually higher in your country than in the UK:-

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

I will concede one point; the murder rate is very high in Glasgow but please don't tar the whole of Scotland with the same brush...the rate in all other Scottish cities is lower than the UK average.

And as for tourist "not many tourists flocking here"...2 million per year and rising to Edinburgh alone.
11

Julian.,

edinburgh 14/07/2008 02:29:01
Guga II,

I agree...and automatic six months in prison for anyone caught carrying a knife.
12

jarmon,

usa 14/07/2008 03:01:42
Some people might think scotland has a violence problem,but here in texas we have more people shot and killed on a weekend than britain has in a year.Here it's true that where the citizens are allowed to carry firearms,the crime rate goes down.Doubt that would work in scotland.I'd never give up my guns to the government.
13

W Smith,

Middle East 14/07/2008 03:32:58
So much for the "knife amnesty" touted by eejits like Willie Rae, Chief Constable of Strahtclyde, now retired.

This man could be in Cyprus now enjoying his big fat pension which was his reward FOR NOT LIFTING A FINGER AGAINST THE THUGS - while enjoying the full support of the Labour mafia in Glasgow.

This is the same guy who 'forgot' to put armed police officers on duty at Glasgow Airport although they were present at Inverness Airport.

The Chief Constables in Scotland kow-tow to the left wing politicians. They know how to talk a good game but will do very little.

As for Gordon Brown and his 'tough' measures - don't hold your breath.
14

Royster,

14/07/2008 04:30:20
The following need to take some of the blame for this knife culture: 1) Jack Straw and his Human Rights Act which protects criminals and makes law enforcement cumbersome 2) Child protection legislation which prevents responsible adults from intervening 3) an education system which has been dumbed down to such an extent that teachers are not respected and neither are the qualifications. School and school subjects no longer have a structure. Both Conservatives and Labour are to blame here. The tories have underpaid teachers and Labour has bowed to left-wing educational theory.
15

Jon Bon Jovi,

14/07/2008 04:38:51
bring back national service!!!!!
16

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

14/07/2008 04:42:12
18 Royster

Don't forget the SNP who actively promote violent crime by passing legislation that means violent criminals don;t go to jail, but instead lean on a shovel for a weekend.

Because Kenny MacAskill and the SNP with Alex Salmond's approval allow people to punch people in the face repeatedly without going to jail, no wonder people die through knife crime.

A knife is just an extension of the fist in these scumbags minds, knifing someone as easy as punching them. If they were informed before they first stab someone that even punching someone is intolerable they would aspire to make their punches pack more damage.

Congratulations to the SNP and Kenny MacAskill in particular for creating an ehtos in Scotland where voilence to another person does nor result in jail time or meaningful retribution from civilisation.
17

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

14/07/2008 05:13:53
Let's not forget what Alex Salmond knew was "Scotland's number one priority" and the 1,000 extra police.

The politicians are laughing as people die from violent crime, they know how much it means to people to prevent it and yet they do nothing.

No 1,000 increase in Police Officers despite it being the number one priority.
18

tomi,

14/07/2008 05:15:27
Stop blaming the instrument!! It had no will of its own.

The responsibility of commiting any crime, with any instrument, rests with the person using it.

To do otherwise is to condemn as criminal those posess and use such instruments in a proper and safe manner, posing no threat to the innocent.

19

Pilrig.,

Livingston 14/07/2008 05:42:58
9 - the life is ruined by the guy who decided to carry blade, no one else.
20

Pilrig.,

Livingston 14/07/2008 05:44:09
19 - and ?
21

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta,CA Obama smoke N mirrors..McCain is Bush 14/07/2008 06:08:20
3 The Spook in Leith,14
--------------------------------
Learn to spell English dude.

here in the US we have guns and we execute the killer when caught and proven guilty.

In Scotland it seems U are a bunch of tree huggers and sympathise with the killers.

paste from this article

"After the attacks, Ms Smith said young people south of the Border who carry knives would be made to visit hospitals where stabbing victims were treated, in a bid to shock them into changing their behaviour.

However, opposition politicians criticised the proposal as "half-baked" and said those found with knives should simply be sent to prison."

Hey Dude, when U kill another person, expect to be killed by the State. Hanged , Fried, Lethal injection, Firing squad.

And you send an invoice to the killer's relatives for the cost of the execution.

No Ifs No buts.

Otherwise shut up whining, and acting like a bunch of wimps.

Happy haggis Day dude .

GC

22

gdtar,

Edinburgh 14/07/2008 06:36:36
Never thought I'd say it,but time to bring back rope!!
23

Tailspin,

Left Coast 14/07/2008 06:42:41
#22 Tomi has it right but did not go far enough.

Once a criminal has injured with a weapon in the commission of a crime against another person; which is not the same as using the same kind of a weapon in self defence, which is not a criminal act; the criminal when convicted of an assult with a deadly weapon should automatically go straight to prison. No coddleing, no plea bargin. Three felony convictions for any type of crime and it is a life sentence in prision. In California we like to call it "Three strikes and your out." If you kill someone it can result in the death penalty.

Carrying a knife and not useing it is not a criminal act in a free society.

Untill you treat criminals like the criminals they are you will have then walking amoung you and killing you.
24

Gilmartin,

Philippines 14/07/2008 06:58:59
30 strokes of the birch for any sub-human that carries a knife would do the trick.
25

eric,

lothian 14/07/2008 07:32:55
Most cities and large towns arent safe Edinburgh is no exeption i dont feel safe in edinburgh and im home at a certain time at night.and when your kids dont feel safe on the street there is something very wrong.
26

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 14/07/2008 07:37:19
A fish rots from the head down, why should the young obey the law when the home secretary makes excuses for them carrying knives as she did on Sunday and the queen's grandsons abuse the public finances by landing choppers in Miss Middleton's back garden? Decisions taken in parliament have caused far more deaths than knife crime and let's face it most of those dying are the same colour as the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that were condemned to death by "the mother of parliaments". Next we have the hundreds of thousands of Iranians who will no doubt be condemned to death as we deliberate a few daft laddies with knives who could be got rid of with a stroke of Jacqui Smith's pen as the Israelis with American and British connivance start a war against them. Cars kill ten times as many people in the UK as knives do and parliament kills one hundred times more than cars. Just who should be birched number 28? Maybe Basil Fawlty had it right when he birched his car. The real criminals in this country don’t run around sink housing estates with knives in their pockets.
27

Boy Wonder,

14/07/2008 07:39:06
Let's not kid ourselves here. Knives and other weapons-carrying is not exclusively a Scottish or British phenomenon. It goes on everywhere. We seem to be witnessing more reporting in it than ever before, bnut it's no different to my teenage days when I knew a lot of guys who carried knives. It's the intent that's in question.

Personally, I'm all for heavier scrutiny of those most likely to carry such items and some form of penalty that heavier than a mere slap on the wrist!

The message has to be Zero Tolerance!
28

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh. 14/07/2008 08:02:18
I listened with interest to some radio reports from T in the Park.Apparently someone had their wooden flagpole confiscated yet no searches were undertaken for glass bottles and knives.
29

thinking,

Scotland 14/07/2008 08:38:29
I wonder how many of these youngsters who use violence play violent computer games etc?
I wonder how many come from broken homes?
I wonder how many come from homes where no-one works who could work?
I wonder how many have ever been disciplined as children?
I wonder how many are virtually illiterate?
??????
30

Noods,

14/07/2008 08:51:53
#33, your name is an oxymoron if ever I saw one. I play violent computer games and my friend comes from a "broken" home yet we know not to go out and stab people to ribbons. Broad generalisations are not helpful.

Also, whose bright idea was it for the perpetrators to meet the victims? That's just what they need eh?

"Hey, aren't you the guy that stabbed me to pieces? Come away in! Someone get him something to drink."

It's that sort of thinking that has this country in the state it is.

31

thinking,

Scotland 14/07/2008 09:00:12
#34
But did you start playing violent computer games as a young child?
Read the reports.
Many who play violent computer games, many who come from broken homes, etc. end up heading the wrong way.
None of the reports say all.
There is also a difference in the type of violence. Is the violence mindless killing or is it something like Karate which can appear very violent?
32

voltaire's janny,

14/07/2008 09:07:44
#34

Oxymoron is a paradox formed by TWO words of opposite meaning.....if you're going to slag someone, it helps not to be a moron yersel'
33

voltaire's janny,

14/07/2008 09:15:12
Unusual as it is for the Hootsmon to let us comment on an open legal story, I have to thank them for this opportunity to remind y'all that knife crime and all violent crime is DOWN statistically. There is a trend for the average age of victims and perps to be getting younger. But overall, these crimes are less.

Knife crime is getting such highlighting for reasons of fashionable hand-wringing in the media and political debate. The worldly-wise might look elsewhere for what they want to keep off the agenda.

Probably recession, setbacks in Afghanistan impotemce over Zimbabwe etc
34

blackley,

Edinburgh 14/07/2008 09:15:57
Back in the 60s a guy was stabbed and killed at a Stones' concert in America. It was seen as an iconic incident. Have we made progress since then?
35

Who?,

14/07/2008 09:23:28
The knife crime is a social and cultural thing more than anything else.

If you look at how the rangers fans behaved in manchester or the celtic fans in newcastle, london or anywhere else they play. Nothing is mentioned in the press so people think its ok to behave like that so they continue to do so and worse upping the ante.

This is mirrored in town centres up and down the UK/ Scotland. I'm not saying this is correct but i've spoken to a few kids who have said that if they don't carry a knife as a deterrant then they could have been stabbed themselves many times. This is a bigger problem than introducing a bit of legislation that will be ignored after a few weeks for PR reasons.

About a month ago i was coming out of mood nighclub when a fight broke out, a couple of guys got stabbed. When i walked past after going to a takeaway the paramedics who were treating the victums were getting assaulted by the attackers. I asked one of the door staff why he wasn't going to stop it, he said that the people come in every week and he didn't want any trouble!

If you really want to stop knife crime ban any songs/ films that glorify it or other forms of voilence. Without media exposure planting ideas into impressionable minds the rates will soon drop.

36

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh. 14/07/2008 09:33:54
#38 - Yes,we no longer allow Hells Angels to act as stewards.
37

Stebson,

Edinburgh 14/07/2008 09:41:28
Unregulated, unfettered access to sports knives via "Hobbyist" shops is a major factor here - would they carry blunt dinner knives? Other contributing factors include cheap booze, drugs being "cool" (C4 Skins, the Johnny Vegas sitcom, Amy Winehouse and other skanks as role models etc... etc...), lack of life focus for those that don't have jobs or are not in further education, foreign cultures who have not eradicated this behaviour yet bringing this into the UK and one or two other so called freedoms, which we have let creep in in recent years. I'm trying not to sound like a merchant of doom and gloom here, but harsh punishment is only one side of the equation. The other has to be dealt with through education and dealing with all of the contrubuting factors, which as a society we have let get out of hand. How can we have accepted 5,000+ new laws (none of which anyone can remember) under the Labour government of the last 11 years and have let an issue like this escalate? Politics is a mess with 4 tiers of government in Scotland and a UK party system in need of complete reform, not to mention the state of the economy - 15 years of unrivalled growth during which our youths have become gangsters. Less rhetoric and more positive acion from the people we elect to make the country safe(r) for our children.
38

Ron Thomson,

calonge 14/07/2008 09:49:58
Bring back the DEATH PENALTY, lets call a halt to all the softly, softly approach it is about time a message was sent out to the scum and exterminate them.
The Labour song, "Things can only get Better" aint working.
39

Keep Scotland Green,

Doune 14/07/2008 09:54:23
These kids aren't learning respect from anyone. Not their parents, not teachers, not their neighbours...We have created this problem by giving automatic respect to children without inisting on it being earned or returned. Kids know they have any number of "rights" and also know that most adults are now afraid of them (would you ask a group of youths to move on?) We need to get a grip, make parents accountable for their kids (that means joint punishment if necessary) and bring back national service for all those not in full time employment or education. A dose in Helmand province would soon sort these kids out and I would guess turn most of them around. They would also experience what real respect feels like - both to give and to earn. This would resolve the issues quickly and certainly more effectively than having them go and visit victims' families (haven't they been through enough?)
40

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 14/07/2008 10:11:55
Once again we have ineffectual leadership from Labour.
41

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

14/07/2008 10:18:20
46

Don't forget the SNP lying to the electorate about 1,000 extra police officers and decriminalising violence where the victim can crawl away with only a broken nose.
42

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 14/07/2008 10:22:49
"and decriminalising violence where the victim can crawl away with only a broken nose."

Could anyone explain this one further? A link perhaps? Thanks
43

MysteryMan,

EDINBURGH 14/07/2008 10:29:19
Saw the news last night on BBC and they showed a group of hoodies weilding butchers cleavers and yet they blurred out their faces. Surely those who fimed them should have immediately contacted the police and had them arrested.Why blur their faces anyway. These kids are scum and by letting them get away with this sort of blatent showing off they get a huge kick out of this and have no respect for anyone. The news also showed CCT of some guys wandering around with big bded swords. We should take the Arab approach and chop their bl**dy hands off. They wont carry knifes again. RESULT.
44

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

14/07/2008 10:30:27
48

Kanny MacAskill will order you on an action adventure holiday at a recomended retail proce of £2,000 + or ask you politely to lean on a shovel for the weekend.

You mus have heard what that joker comes out with, if that is not decriminalising violence, then what is?
45

frightened mum,

scotland 14/07/2008 10:38:51
I have a 4 year old son and am only 23 myself and only 10 years ago there was no worry about your kids going out, majority of the time they were safe. I used to walk the streets and not be scared at all cos i knew i was alright but now, even with my son at the park i'm constantly on edge watching him. I'm petrified for my son when he grows up now, god knows how the UK has got so bad but we should be taking a leaf out of the US's book!

Life in prison should mean life not 12 sh*t years. If you can take a life, you should lose your own. And as for bringing these knife carriers to see stab victims to "shock them" thats b*llocks! If any of my family was in hospital with a stab wound i wouldn't let anyone who carried a knife near them! But thats a typical bloody woman for you! Thinking emotions will help rehabilitate!

I think the 2 year minimum for knife crime/carriers should actually be carried out! But with our "Justice System" the worse the crime you comit, the lighter the sentence you get, its a complete joke! Lethal Injection should be used here for all murderers/beasts/rapists! This countries criminals get off with far too much and families suffering never ends especially when a sh*t sentence is given out and then they get carted off to prison to play the playstation, watch tv and sit with a load of folk just as bad as them talking bout who's the hardest for being in there and bragging bout what they've done! They have no bills to pay, their food handed to them three times a day and a pretty much stress free life! The people i know of who have been in prison think its an easy ride.

This country needs to toughen up before our young ones are all slaughtered by these idiots that think they are something to be looked up to when really they are shaming our country!
46

Pandamack,

14/07/2008 10:43:30
Would knife crime such as this be restricted if the carrying and/or using knives were punished more severely than at present ? Sentences should be used not only to punish, but to deter others by clearly outlining the consequences of involvement in the "knife culture".If more prison places are needed, then build them. When we can fund the Iraq "liberation" and Trident, then let's not quibble about costs. Its time we got our priorities sorted out.The "softly - softly approach" is not getting positive results, and re-introducing the death penalty would even more negative. Lord Carmont comes to mind.
47

glen urquhart,

glasgow 14/07/2008 10:48:24
Here's something to maybe think about - walk around the Barras Market at the weekend & it will be patrolled by the police in an attempt to stop dodgy DVDs of Hollywood films where the star actors can routinely earn over $10,000,000 per film.

Walk around the corner and knives/stanley knives are freely avilable for sale.
48

glen urquhart,

glasgow 14/07/2008 10:49:51
Sorry - that should have read... stop the sale of dodgy DVDS...
49

Media 1,

Cape Town 14/07/2008 11:15:56
Firstly - Change the dole system from a free hand out system to a community service work and earn programme in which people on benefits must earn their money through community service. That will result in hundreds of thousands of men and women on benefit having to get out of their beds in the morning in order to earn their keep. In time you begin to create a new mindest within the hand out system communities who are responsible for most of this crime.
THEN - Sort out the schools, no more nonsense! School is for learning it is not gathering place for rude and obnoxious louts. You dont conform to the strict guideiines your out. DISCIPLINE IS REQUIRED!
THEN - Sort out the jails, punish criminals and ensure that they suffer in jail. And whilst we are at it, lets take away as much as possible from the prisoners and spend the money on building better facilities for the kids.
Until those 3 things are done, the UK will continue its downward spiral.
50

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 14/07/2008 11:18:37
Why not ban alcohol at the T in the Park Festival. We do it for football matches and for transport to and from games. Just carry out searches for drink, drugs and knives at the entry points. Quite simple I would have thought.
51

we the people,

14/07/2008 12:47:42
imprisoning anyone who carries a knife is boneheaded. mostly fearful children sent off to do a full honours course at the university of crime. if you were afraid of them before they went in, you'll be terrified when they come out.
52

monkey man,

14/07/2008 12:55:47
A multiple stabbing, another punter found dead, drunks staggering about everywhere,, tents ransacked, violent muggings, the place awash with illegal drugs.

T-In-The Park should be closed down forthwith.
53

G,

dundy 14/07/2008 13:15:25
Looking at the reaction down south to the spate of knivings, what we need is a couple of high-publicity stabbings of the sort of people who don't normally get stabbed - the SNP don't give a monkeys about some wee ned in Glasgow who gets bladed but if a son or daughter of the "meritocracy" got chibbed then we'd see some action...but the SNP will do nothing, as usual...
54

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/07/2008 13:55:18
Young scum who carry out what are classed as 'minor' acts of violence should be made to work for a couple of weeks in their local morgue...they should be shown...not living people in hospital recovering from injuries...but those killed from acts of violence...particularly knife violence...in states of rigor mortis and decomposing...they should be forced to watch an autopsy of murder victims...and then clean up after the pathologist....shock therapy...
55

Thistledhu,

14/07/2008 14:13:41
61 ask anyone who was at T in the park they were more than aware of the security presence.

were you there?
56

Proud to have Scots blood,

New York 14/07/2008 14:22:57
Dear 51:

Do NOT take a leaf out or the U.S.'s book.........
We are in the same fix as the U.K. Too soft on crime & criminals.....if you want to kill someone here, get behind the wheel of a car. Absolutely nothing will happen to you. Lawyers will think up the greatest excuses for miscreants. There are more child molestations, rapes, break ins, hold ups, muggings & murders than ever. If people will not obey simple civil law you can bet they will not obey any laws. The last thing you need is a page out of our book.
57

gr8scot,

toronto 14/07/2008 15:08:39
#2 in Peterborough, spend a week-end in Toronto before you start being critical about Scotland. This place has become the wild west, we do have our share of stabbings but we've got Scotland beat to hell when it comes to guns, every gang that roams Toronto has their hands on one no problem. Our moron for a mayor is going after gun clubs, the exact opposite type of person you want to go after. Over here we have a "young offender" act which is a complete joke, the cops bust ther asses catching these punks and a day later their out on bail waveing to the cameras. By the way our tourisim trade it takeing a hammering for lots of reasons, but we're not so squeaky clean anymore.
58

Destroy the Planet,

14/07/2008 15:34:30
Its not as bad as it used to be in the last 20 years, so somethings working.
59

david hill,

huddersfield & Bern 14/07/2008 15:35:31


When I was a young man there was in-fighting within schools but no where else. Boys predominately had their skirmishes to prove who was the toughest in the school. Although this will be the same today (the law of the jungle and one's assertion over another human being), in my day there were no major gangs and no knife crime. In those days we used our fists and when someone was beat, we backed off and that was the end of it.

Now we have a young society that goes out ad hoc to not just prove a point, but to do whatever is necessary to stop someone they may not like.

The difference to then and now is down to economics. In my day I could go from one job to the next at will (even the most uneducated young school leavers got jobs then, if they wanted a job). Today we are in the situation where there are not the jobs for the uneducated. In this respect in the 60s building, engineering and textiles were booming. But since then due to continuous government policies to get everyone to university and into higher education et al, this strategy has changed the economic landscape of Britain forever. In this respect they have left behind the industry jobs that manufacturing once provided and thereby unknowingly created the gangs and violence that we see today.

In their quest to provide a knowledge-based economy, successive governments have not understood the ramifications of adopting a fit all strategy. Indeed, to provide jobs for the young ones now without qualifications is impossible and thus we have the culture that we see today with all its violence.

What successive governments should have been doing is investing in high-tech manufacturing where the young unqualified people could operate machines by the touch of a button, as most advanced plants operate today. Unfortunately governments again have invested and pinned their hopes predominantly in the service industries where there just are not sufficient jobs created. Therefore to change the present horrendous si
60

david hill,

huddersfield & Bern 14/07/2008 15:38:20


When I was a young man there was in-fighting within schools but no where else. Boys predominately had their skirmishes to prove who was the toughest in the school. Although this will be the same today (the law of the jungle and one's assertion over another human being), in my day there were no major gangs and no knife crime. In those days we used our fists and when someone was beat, we backed off and that was the end of it.

Now we have a young society that goes out ad hoc to not just prove a point, but to do whatever is necessary to stop someone they may not like.

The difference to then and now is down to economics. In my day I could go from one job to the next at will (even the most uneducated young school leavers got jobs then, if they wanted a job). Today we are in the situation where there are not the jobs for the uneducated. In this respect in the 60s building, engineering and textiles were booming. But since then due to continuous government policies to get everyone to university and into higher education et al, this strategy has changed the economic landscape of Britain forever. In this respect they have left behind the industry jobs that manufacturing once provided and thereby unknowingly created the gangs and violence that we see today.

In their quest to provide a knowledge-based economy, successive governments have not understood the ramifications of adopting a fit all strategy. Indeed, to provide jobs for the young ones now without qualifications is impossible and thus we have the culture that we see today with all its violence.

What successive governments should have been doing is investing in high-tech manufacturing where the young unqualified people could operate machines by the touch of a button, as most advanced plants operate today. Unfortunately governments again have invested and pinned their hopes predominantly in the service industries where there just are not sufficient jobs created. Therefore to change the present horrendous si
61

david hill,

14/07/2008 15:39:04
Continuing my comment

What successive governments should have been doing is investing in high-tech manufacturing where the young unqualified people could operate machines by the touch of a button, as most advanced plants operate today. Unfortunately governments again have invested and pinned their hopes predominantly in the service industries where there just are not sufficient jobs created. Therefore to change the present horrendous situation and provide the jobs that the young and disillusioned cannot obtain, we have to have a more balanced economy where all are allowed to participate. Until governments understand this we shall have the problems that we all see today with youth crime. Jobs are the answer but where successive governments have got it all wrong in the past.

I therefore blame government and government alone for the situation that we see and no others.

Dr David Hill

World Innovation Foundation Charity
62

glaswegian at heart,

Florida 14/07/2008 17:21:16
I still maintain the perps. are treated with kid gloves instead of paying for their crimes by making them clean up trash etc. or how about bringing back the birch or is that ''cruel and unusual punishment'' for the cowardly thugs.How about teaching them something useful like how to use their brain if it isn't too fried from drug use.
63

okanaganguy,

kelowna, b.c. canada 14/07/2008 18:41:09
Folks, the system is screwed up throughout the western world.Punishments are in place for serious offenders but with plea bargaining etc. a slap on the wrist is more common. Just today, i see where 5 of the accused on trial in Britain, charged with attempting to blow passenger aircraft going to N. Americs have plea bargained to lesser charges. They claim that they were making an anti-western documentary. Are those the same documentaries that show innocent people being beheaded.It's about time we treated these people the way they treat us.Let's enforce the laws which are already in force,no exceptions, regards
64

,

15/07/2008 12:56:15
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