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Government in talks over tax on cyclists

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Published Date: 13 September 2009
A ROAD tax on cyclists is being considered by Scottish Government civil servants.
The prospect of cyclists paying a charge, like motorists, to use roads comes in a document outlining the Scottish Government's vision for cycling.

The draft Cycling Action Plan for Scotland (CAPS), which has been released for public consultation, aims to ensure that, by 2020, 10 per cent of all journeys in Scotland are by bike.

But it also raises the question of cyclists making a financial contribution to roads maintenance. The document states: "Should all road users pay road tax? If so, how much should it be for cyclists and how could it be enforced?"

If introduced, cyclists might be forced to register cycles with their local authority and pay annual amounts, as motorists do with vehicle excise duty.

The move comes as ministers are under pressure to come up with innovative ways to maintain public spending in the face of deep and sustained cuts due to the increasing national debt.

John Swinney has given his strongest signal yet that the Scottish Government will make public sector cuts in the draft 2010-11 Budget this week. The finance secretary admitted that public bodies had to be "streamlined" as he looked ahead to the publication of the bill on Thursday. Last week, Scotland on Sunday revealed from a leaked document that civil servants are planning for the government to introduce a 5 per cent cut in public sector spending, as well as possible tax increases, to bring the country's finances under control.

The document said officials believed that blanket cuts of £1.5 billion across every government area would "only be part of the solution".

The road tax suggestion has angered cycling organisations and environmental groups. Last night Green Party leader Patrick Harvie said: "Cyclists already have to pay through their council tax for the damage which others cause to Scotland's local roads, so ministers should drop this proposal and instead put more effort into supporting cycling and investing in safer cycle routes.

"If the SNP actually try to impose this absurd tax, then the non-payment campaign will be immediate and unstoppable."

The document does not make clear how much cyclists would have to pay or how it would be implemented, but Scotland on Sunday understands discussions have centred on registration plates for bikes – a proposal floated by Ken Livingstone when he was London mayor, although the plan was never adopted.

Public finance expert Richard Kerley said the most likely method of implementing the tax would be to register all bicycles and making it a legal requirement for owners to have a registration document. The tax would then be paid yearly or six-monthly in a similar way to vehicle excise duty.

Professor Kerley, the vice-principal of Queen Margaret University, said: "Cyclists are not exactly causing a lot of wear and tear, but if the government is seeking to increase taxation, it would be one way of doing it.

The cycle tax has been criticised in many of the responses to the CAPS consultation document.

The consultation has just closed and later this year the government will produce a report that will determine cycling policy, based on responses.

Ian Aiken, chief executive of the government-backed Cycling Scotland and a member of the CAPS board that produced the paper, said: ""Cycling Scotland's view is cyclists should not be taxed, but it is important to ask the question."

Cycling Scotland's official response argued that bikes were carbon neutral and so should be exempt from vehicle taxation, levels of which are based on carbon dioxide emissions.

Gary Bell of Spokes, the Scottish cycling pressure group with 1,000 members, said: "Many cycle owners already pay road tax because they own a car. What about the practicalities? Are you trying to collect road tax from three-year-olds on tricycles? This document is trying to increase the number of cyclists and here they are constructing a barrier to prevent people getting a bicycle. It is utterly laughable."

Peter Hayman, another CAPS board member and the Scottish representative of the Cyclists Touring Club, claimed the tax suggestion was added to the paper without his knowledge.

"I think this went in after we saw the final draft," he said. "The board saw the guts of the document, then the Scottish Government people put it together with some extra quotes, which we never saw. I don't think it should have been there because it distracts from the real question, which is: how do you get more people cycling?

"It would be completely impractical. Something like that would cost ten times the total investment in cycling to administer. The message missing from this plan is thatit is a great way of getting around that's pleasurable."

A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 September 2009 9:07 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

,

12/09/2009 19:32:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

12/09/2009 22:05:40
Ohhh yesss, the SNP "Government" reaps the fruit of its earlier silly decisions to make stuff "free".

So, they know a new Forth Bridge needs building, but they go ahead and abolish tolls.

They know Scottish universities are falling behind in funding and the international league tables, but they abolish fees.

And a couple of years later they realise they might need to start taxing cyclists.

Laugh? I wish I could.
3

druidh,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 00:04:47
So, on the very last line of this "story", we get a response from the Govt.... "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."

Rather makes a nonsense of the rest of the article, but then that doesn't seem to phase what passes for a journalist at the Scotsman.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 00:10:09

Cyclists, use our roads, Good! at last you will have to make your contribution towards them.
5

overshot,

perth 13/09/2009 00:10:29
#3
Anybody can phone round cyclING organisations and ask them what they think. Invesigative journalism at its best for this rag.
6

Salus Populi Suprema Lex Esto,

13/09/2009 00:11:38

"Laugh? I wish I could."

We'll all laugh for you, at you, not with you
7

,

13/09/2009 00:11:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 13/09/2009 00:12:58
Is it April 1st already ?

A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."

So what is the point of the article ?
9

Utar Refson,

13/09/2009 00:16:17
Odd, but not without merit, but first and foremost the SNP needs to improve the cycling infrastructure so potential cycle tax payers see what they're supporting. It may be worth levying the tax at the point of sale rather than annually.
10

Hmm ...,

13/09/2009 00:20:38
... it's high time that cyclists were tested, insured and taxed for the use of their cycles on the roads.

It would be a good idea also to make them identifiable - we need to weed out the neds and lycra louts who see cycling as an opportunity to throw their weight around.

As for the loony from Spokes who used the example of the three year old on a tricycle - what sensible parent would allow such a small child on to the roads? That is the one kind of "cyclist" who should be cycling on the pavement, not on the road!
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 00:25:03

~10.
Hmm...

Well Said!!


12

,

13/09/2009 00:28:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 00:29:23
The draft cycling action plan, with the question about tax and enforcement, can be read on the Scottish Executive website - here:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/05/28093408/7

"Should all road users pay road tax? If so, how much should it be for cyclists and how could it be enforced?"

If the Scottish Ministers don't know what their own policy documents say - I can't say I'm that surprised!


No, but listen, this is an interesting idea. If they tax bikes then they could make cyclists or bike owners take out compulsory insurance, which they might be able to tax as well. Even better, they could require that bluetooth enabled immobilisers are put on bikes so they could remotely clamp non-payers. And they could keep a compulsory resister of cycles and make them all have number plates, and then they could sell specially printed personalised number plates. And they could employ a special squad of mounted tax collectors, which could be used to hunt down non-payers, and the special security team could be used to crack down on any non-payment campaign. Since non-payers would probably also be disenchanted with the nationalists and with their plan to break up the country, then that would serve their purpose too!

Ir must be an exciting time to be a nationalist!!!

14

,

13/09/2009 00:32:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Hairdrier,

The land of the taxed 13/09/2009 00:44:20
A tax on cyclists?!

Surely it's April 1st.

What next, a tax on breathing.


16

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 00:48:29
#15 - "A Scottish Government spokeswoman did not say: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge people for breathing in Scotland."
17

Nellie Rogers,

13/09/2009 00:53:31
just cycle on the pavement like I do and tell them to stuff their road tax.
18

JANET 8642,

australia 13/09/2009 01:07:02
most cyclists have cars so already paying,if the govt wants cyclists to pay,they should make safe bike paths.
CYCLISTS also are not adding to polution.
19

Salus Populi Suprema Lex Esto,

13/09/2009 01:07:35

14. Rufus Fruitcake

Dear oh dear, have you been talking to dirty ol smee?



20

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 13/09/2009 01:08:54
A tax on cycles is a complete non starter. The idea of third party insurance oought to be considered. If a cyclist caused an accident, say by running in to a pedestrian , the libility could be huge. Perhaps everyone should have insurance to cover negligent acts and accidents.
21

2dogs in D.C.,

13/09/2009 01:09:09
Um,sorry to intrude,but what? I'm hard up for money but I'd never tax folks for walking past my house.And aren't bikes one of the alternatives to the whole "carbon"thing?
22

Salus Populi Suprema Lex Esto,

13/09/2009 01:14:18












A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."














23

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 01:17:16









Look - I can make my comment look more important by putting in lots of white space!!













24

MacFloyd,

13/09/2009 01:17:50
This story begins and ends with:
"A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."


From drilling platform, to refinery, to petrol pump, to London... the SNP know where to look for tax monies due.
25

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 01:18:01








http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/05/28093408/7












26

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 01:18:40
The really important question is where they'd put the number plates and the tax disc. I mean if the plate is on the front mudguard that could be dangerous for pedestrians. While if it's on the back that could be a drag factor.

Of course they could do what they've done with the trains and make us all put a wee flag on our bikes.

I wonder if some civil servant was testing out his minister to see if they'd actually read the consultation paper? Remember what that report published recently said - civil servants would need to help nationalist ministers with the thinking?
27

Writing our futures,

13/09/2009 01:25:05
Fun Saturday night folks!

Druidh, Fifi`s added a link to CAPS, cycling action plan. Has a look at Loch Akaig, just to the north of Ben Nevis and I think there`s a top route there. Most of our cities have decent canalside and mountain biking routes on your doorsteps. Wouldn`t it just be lifestyle designing and a wee tad good for your health if more than 10% were cycling, why not have 40% cycling by 2020. In my experience, it`s the best form of transport in any city, even big ones like Sao Paulo and London cycling is a buzz. You don`t need coffee in the morning if your hitting the tarmac on the way into work, believe it or not. Our government are planning for our futures and our cynicism smells like the lardarse around the homely bottoms so many prefer to sit around in. Obesity is one of the greatest challenges of this millenium and instead of getting up and doing something good for our health, we`re sitting around posting messages on not so massively important issues like providing better routes for cyclists. Reduce accidents by providing green lanes, reduce wasted time in cars, increase and improve bus and train services and oh yeah improve your well-being with a bike. Their not expensive and at least our government aren`t like the opposition darn sarf spouting off on their free lunches.

What are the labouright going to be able to do to criticise the fact that our SNP government are planning for a healthier and a heck of a lot more ecological future with more cycling.

Oh, by the way, JT, are you still dancing? Never could sing, could you?
28

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 01:25:44
Would children with stabilisers on their bikes need to pay extra?
29

Writing our futures,

13/09/2009 01:28:05
Fi, you been on a Scotrail train recently, still don`t see your flags. Apparently the southern English said travelling by train would be mortal, `faaster than a hoorse, old bean, you`ll never saarvive it!!`
Still, you can cut your commute time in any city, just get on a bike.
30

,

13/09/2009 01:32:04
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31

Willie Macleod,

Wick 13/09/2009 03:31:41
So within the space of a week Scottish Civil servants want to steamroller us to Independance and tax our bikes.

I am so angry with this abuse of tax payers money I am going to write to the Sunday Post!

Whats that! this this is not the Sunday post. Oh dear wrong paper.
32

Willie Macleod,

Wick 13/09/2009 03:34:44
Independence sorry
33

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 03:41:28

Some 'Cyclists', think they can do anything, and not respecting the Highway-Code, the quicker they are taxed, all the better!


34

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO 13/09/2009 03:44:52


Insanity......tax, if any, should be proportionate to the damage done + the maintainance costs.......................

....which for a cyclist would be les than 1/1000
of the damage ONE 10 ton Lorry does.

But roads are a MUST for mail and milk delivery.


Tax cyclists a niminal 5 Quid/year and register them so that ALL STOLEN BIKES CAN BE IMMEDIATELY TRACED,
35

hoblar,

13/09/2009 03:48:17
I bet you that bikes won't get taxed in Scotland.

I personally feel rather taxed reading these daft Scotsman online 'articles' though.
36

Ewan Randall,

13/09/2009 04:43:34
Is it advisable to attempt and bring in taxation on an activity considered as being a useful form of exercise?

Would taxation on bicycles encourage people to take up cycling as a useful form of exercise?

Is the health of Scots so good that we can afford to potentially discourage an activity which has been shown to be of benefit?

Would taxation on bicycles reduce the number of those who might take up the sport of cycling?

Would taxation on bicycles reduce the number of those wishing to follow the likes of Chris Hoy?

Would Chris Hoy have ever set foot in a velodrome if taxation had been in place when he was young?

If people are discouraged from cycling what will become of the Scottish National Velodrome being built for the 2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow?
37

Baggy Troosers,

13/09/2009 05:39:55
What a load of piffle .

There is nothing like making up fairy stories on a bad news day.

Road tax on bikes ,aye right.

Still if it's enough to get the juices flowing on the resident nutters at #1 and #2 then its good enough for me.

There's nothing better than having a rare old laugh on a Sunday morn.
38

Baggy Troosers,

13/09/2009 05:57:18
I see Feefee's fertile imagination is in overdrive as well.

Maybe we could fit said bycicles with slot machines so you have to pay into them everytime you take your bike out for a run.

Maybe we could erect parking meters in every city ,town and village exclusively for bikes ,or maybe we should just take this article with a large pinch of salt,after all it IS the "Scotsman", wot you say Feefee!.
39

moring,

Sydenham 13/09/2009 06:45:45
What a wonderful idea, I wish our Govt in Victoria Australia would do the same thing, cyclists here demand everything for nothing and we motorist have to pay.

Ex pat in Melbourne. Australia.
40

witty nickname,

Seattle 13/09/2009 06:52:51
Get 10% of all journeys by bicycle by 2020 simply by taxing riders. This from the people who released a convicted mass murderer on compassionate grounds. I'm just waiting for Salmond to put a tax on tea being unloaded at Leith Harbour.

What about an INCENTIVE to get people on bikes? An end of year rebate for people who commute by bike, for example. This could be verified by the employer quite easily.

I know this won't really see the light of day, but it calls into question the sanity of the SNP for including the issue in a Government document, assuming they read it prior to publication. If the SNP is serious about the environment and being part of the green solution, then joined up thinking is necessary. I believe in independence, but I wish there were an alternative party to vote for. The SNP comes across as totally inept. Hopefully, after independence there will be new generation of competent politicians with a raft of sensible policies.
41

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 07:08:39
Good to see the unionist half-wits jumping in full of bile, vitriol and thundering indignation at this non story.

The dirty tricks are well and truly under way by the moronic unionists, who having lost the rational argument, resort to lies and innuendo.

Easy to see how the union is finished.
42

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 07:16:54
And for all the foaming mouthed unionists,

From The Sunday Times,


"Health of Lockerbie bomber Abdel Basset al-Megrahi 'worsens'
The health of Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, the terminally ill Libyan convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie bombing, has deteriorated markedly in the past day, his brother and doctors said, according to news agency reports."


43

Justin Timbercake,

13/09/2009 07:26:48
#34 Scotsdoc

An "Insanity Tax". What a spiffing idea. They could band it according to the level of insanity a particular individual possesses.

I would suggest the following rates;

Baggy Troosers 20% tax rate

Tartan Viking 40% tax rate

Spook in Leith 60% tax rate

Brownlie 80% tax rate

Dunedin Bully Boy 100% tax rate
44

Justin Timbercake,

13/09/2009 07:28:40
#42 Jimmy Le Pie

But does he have a bike?
45

Ben Thehoose,

13/09/2009 07:38:38
Nothing new in this. Where I spent part of my youth bikes were taxed and a triangular metal tax disc had to be clamped in by the front wheel nut.

I hope a bike MOT has to be passed, too, to remove dangerous bikes.

However, rather than a bike tax that taxes the fit, a better idea is to penalise the unfit by, say, a slob tax.

If fatties are annually taxed a pound a pound overweight that will raise vast sums and help reduce demands on the health service.

You know it makes sense.
46

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 07:38:45
#44 Rufus

What a crass buffoon.

Well up to your usual imbecilic offerings.
47

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 13/09/2009 07:40:07
Cycles will be provided free in a Scottish socialist republic. Vote SNP.
48

Warden Resurrected,

13/09/2009 07:41:41
I can see it now at SNP HQ someone saying; watch this, our very own case of the emperor’s new clothes. Think of the idiotic and have it printed up on the Scotsman and you’ll see. Our own people will treat it as the word of God. Remember the florescent seat belts it was my idea too the person says.
49

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 07:42:38
Bully,

Its easy to see how the union is dying with idiots like Rufus and Paddy O'Poison doing the shouting!!

I've had a good week.

My son joined the SNP along with one of his Uni mates.

A workmate joined the SNP as well and stopped his union dues going to the Sleaze Party.

Keep up the good work Rufus, Foolkes, Devine et al.
50

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 07:46:56
And meanwhile in the real world of journalism comes a real story. From The Sunday Times,

I don't expect the Rufus and the imbeciles to comment though!!!

From The Sunday Times,

"The Libyan killer of a British policewoman will never be brought to justice in Britain after a secret deal approved by Jack Straw.

The Foreign Office bowed to Libyan pressure and agreed that Britain would abandon any attempt to try the murderer of WPC Yvonne Fletcher, shot outside the Libyan embassy in London 25 years ago."
51

Isla Valassie,

13/09/2009 07:47:01
#33 - So you pay your 'road tax' and you are then bound to adhere to the Highway Code. Yes I see that happening everyday on the roads. That's maybe how it works in your tiny mind perhaps? 'Road tax' (vehicle excise duty)is a tax on the vehicle and has nothing at all to with a person's 'right' to use the roads. All UK taxpayers contribute to the provision and upkeep of roads through income tax.
52

Alex MacPhee,

UK 13/09/2009 07:52:02
This is an idiotic proposal. Motorists don't pay 'road tax' in order to use the roads -- roads were already built and paid for by local autority highways departments funded by ratepayers and council taxpayers. 'Road tax' was introduced in order to pay for the maintenance required due to the wear caused to road surfaces by heavy motor vehicles, which is why road tax (vehicle excise duty) is scaled according to the size of the vehicle. Cyclists do no damage at all, hence do not pay road tax. Cyclists as ratepayers and council tax payers have already paid for the roads. A tax on cyclists is as stupid as a tax on pedestrians, and is predicated on ignorance of the reason for the road tax system.
53

R Davis,

Vienna 13/09/2009 07:57:03
Why not go all the way & charge wheelchairs & prams too?
54

Rob Royston,

Africa 13/09/2009 07:57:58
Brilliant idea. We could make a deal with them that if they get rid of these stupid cycle priority lanes on the highways then they cycle for free.
55

Justin Timbercake,

13/09/2009 08:01:37
#46 You sound upset Bully Boy.

You like dishing it out, but don't like getting it back.

Stick to what you are good at . . . pointing out spelling errors and/or typos. It is all you have to offer.
56

,

13/09/2009 08:04:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

Justin Timbercake,

13/09/2009 08:04:31
#50 Jimmy

You keep banging on about Libya. Are you on the right thread?
58

Rob Royston,

Africa 13/09/2009 08:04:31
#50 If they knew the murderer of WPC Yvonne Fletcher why did they let him leave the country at the time. It wouldn't surprise me if the shot was not from a Black Ops operator, and Libya was just the Bogey state at the time, like with Lockerbie.

All these deals getting done just now with Libya are ideal for burying the truth of Britains dirty work.
59

AbandonAllHope,

13/09/2009 08:04:48
Do unicyclists pay less than bicyclists and tricyclists pay more, and tandems ? Do they split the bill ?
60

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 08:05:04
Salmond is onto something with his Bicycle Tax (Scotland) 2010 bill. What he could do next is bring in a law whereby every person in Scotland is fitted with the next generation small odometer and anyone walking more than 100 meters a day is taxed at their marginal rate for every extra 100 meters walked.
By taxing cyclists and people who walk Salmond will have found a way to fund Scottish independence in no time at all.
No wonder everyone says Salmond is a buffoon!
61

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 08:06:49
#55 Rufus

You are less capable of causing anyone to be upset than a single midge, and more easily swatted away.
62

AbandonAllHope,

13/09/2009 08:07:19
Anybody who gets dressed up to go cycling should be taxed.
63

AbandonAllHope,

13/09/2009 08:08:49
Its impossible to cycle when p1shed
64

William of Liberton,

EDINBURGH 13/09/2009 08:09:07
Actually no-one pays "road tax". That was abolished in 1936. What owners of motor vehicles pay is "Vehicle Excise Duty", which licenses them to use their motor vehicles on the roads (comparable to the licensing of certain individuals to use guns). It is general taxation, to which all citizens contribute, which pays for the damage caused to the roads by motor vehicles.

One good point in this article is the revelation that the taxation question was slipped into the consultation document at the last minute after interested cycling CAPS members had approved an earlier draft. This is not surprising as Transport Scotland are not in the least interested in cycling as a mode of transport, much preferring to promote motor roads.
65

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 08:13:40
I do think Salmond should tax Spandex cycle pants for male exhibitionists and older women, those "bulldog" and "camel-toe" effects are just too gross to witness!
66

AbandonAllHope,

13/09/2009 08:14:31
Are the polis gonnae pull you over ? Or is the government of the day and there creepy cctv systems gonnae identify you for failure for state compliancy requirements ? Methinks its a load of europap
67

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 13/09/2009 08:16:54
"The Libyan killer of a British policewoman will never be brought to justice in Britain after a secret deal approved by Jack Straw."

Forensic evidence could be produced showing the killer wasn't a Libyan, but of some other nationality, and we don't want that.

On your bike, reader.
68

Phil C,

13/09/2009 08:17:01
Two things the SNP have been extremely good at are consensus and openly viewing all options. Biased reporting such as is displayed here don't do any of us any favours. It's fun for the Rufus Fruitcakes of this world, but more are seeing through the tired dogma of unionism.

#49 raises the most important point of all. The quiet and steady growth in support for the SNP, which comes as a result of measured debate and brave decisions, shows that more and more people want open and common sense government.

69

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 08:17:31
#57 Rufus,

Just pointing out what stories the real newspapers are running with, in case anyone was foolish enough to think the drivel that the Hootsmon is publishing is news or even true!!!!

70

Justin Timbercake,

13/09/2009 08:19:53
#61 Bully Boy

Yes, you are definitely upset.

Never mind, someone will be along with a spellin mistake shortly.

(Did you see what I just did there?)
71

thinking,

Scotland 13/09/2009 08:22:44
Cyclists should pay a third party insurance to cover any accidents they cause.

'The finance secretary admitted that public bodies had to be "streamlined" '
Why not start with the MSPs? We don't need any where near the number we have now.
72

Navvy,

IS IT APRIL THE FIRST? 13/09/2009 08:22:50
if the report is true then it just shows the mediocracy of our civil servants. Their numbers need cutting to the extent that the remainder are appreciative of their jobs and do a fair day's useful work, every day.

A sure way to make cyclists into criminals and to cut down the numbers thus increasing the use of motorised vehicles. Cycles have been licenced in the past. a metal disc on the read mudguard, meaning mudguards would become compulsory, or in the plane of the frame
73

Baggy Troosers,

13/09/2009 08:24:57
#70
Aye you havered again

Rufus will just buy a Scooter , a toy one that is.
74

Baggy Troosers,

13/09/2009 08:26:06
What a nice day for takin the pi*ss.
75

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 08:30:21
Tax on cyclists, sounds like a sure fire way to put people onto Brain Souter's buses.
Is this Salmond's way of paying back Brain Souter for his largesse to the SNP?
76

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 08:35:20
Especially for the unionista hard of thinking:

“A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."

Which part of “no plans” is difficult to understand?
77

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 08:39:40
Dùn Èideann Bully Wee # 76

How do you know that the person making that statement can speak for the Scottish "Government?"

Who is that woman? Name her!
78

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 08:42:17
Good to see New Labour Sleaze haven't abandoned their traditional role of looking out for themselves and to h*ll with everyone else. Socialists indeed!!!!!

From The MOS,

"The Cabinet Minister behind a £12.5billion nuclear power deal with French-owned energy giant EDF is set to take a highly-paid job with the firm.

John Hutton’s proposed move comes just a year after the former Business Secretary gave the go-ahead for the firm to buy many of Britain’s existing and future nuclear power plants.

It is bound to raise new questions about the so-called ‘revolving door’ which allows Ministers to quit and take up lucrative jobs with firms they helped while in Government.

The energy deal saw EDF – which is controlled by the French government – take over British Energy and its eight UK nuclear power stations.

It also gave the firm control of most of the sites earmarked for building new nuclear power stations in Britain, including Sizewell in Suffolk and Dungeness in Kent."


79

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 08:45:22
Jimmy Le Pie # 78

What has that got to do with Salmond's bicycle tax wheeze?
You are not trying to deflect attention from the serious matter of Salmond taxing cyclists, are you?
80

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 08:46:31
77 Donkey Hote


Nicola Sturgeon MSP
MSP
Deputy Leader of the Scottish National Party / Deputy First Minister of Scotland / Cabinet Secretary for Health & Wellbeing


I think that qualifies her to speak for the Scottish Government.
81

Tracker,

13/09/2009 08:48:30
This is bonkers that needs composted immediately.
82

Marian,

13/09/2009 08:50:55
LABOR GAMEPLAN:

(1) Damian McBridie to scrape bottom of barrel again and again every day to find or make up anything that could be remotely used to smear the SNP and/or its leadership and instruct daily to friendly fruitcake agent provocateur posing as journo in former quality newspaper who will accept without question and publish every day;

(2) ensure resident fruitcake agent provocateur always gets in first with provocative response in comments section further plunging new depths daily to smear SNP:

(3) wait and watch in vain for blood vessels to burst on SNP supporters necks as they indignantly but calmly respond to comments with actual honest factual truth of the matter;

(4) wait and watch in vain for voters to be taken in by LABOR GAMEPLAN and hope that no-one ever asks what are Labor's values and policies behind their smears and innuendo smokescreen;

GAME OVER!
83

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 08:53:04
Dùn Èideann Bully Wee # 80

Ah, that old wheeze, get a Civil Servant to fly a kite and then deny it when it is widely scorned.
How do you know Sturgeon is the so called "spokeswoman," if she was why does the article not name her?

You have been spun, i.e. conned, again, by the SNP con machine.
84

walter,

13/09/2009 08:54:33
The prospect of cyclists paying a charge, like motorists, to use roads comes in a document outlining the Scottish Government's vision for cycling.

A Scottish Government spokeswoman said Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland.

If the SG has no plans to charge cyclist then why did they allow the paper to go out for public consultation
stating (Should all road users pay road tax? If so, how much should it be for cyclists and how could it be enforced).
Why was it not removed before the paper was released, why was it there in the first place if they have no plans to do so.
85

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 08:55:43
83 Donkey Hote

Ask the Hootsmon why the article does not mention her name.

Do you think they may be a wee bit biased?
86

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 08:57:27
#79, Donkey,

I knew you weren't the full shilling, but to be 11 1/2d short is truly astounding!!!!
87

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 09:02:48
Dùn Èideann Bully Wee # 85

Does that mean you don't know?

Jimmy Le Pie # 86

What's a shilling? Us youngsters don't know about those old weights and things...
88

Billy the Fish,

glasgow 13/09/2009 09:03:52

Is this April fool's day or is the SNP a noddy goverment?
89

TWC,

exLabour 13/09/2009 09:03:56
Another fairy Story from the hootsmon, this is getting ridiculous.

BTW doesn't road tax go to the treasury?
90

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 09:04:20


15th February 1971...
91

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 09:07:15
87 Donkey Hote

I know because I asked her.

You can do also:
Nicola.Sturgeon.msp@scottish.parliament.uk

Simples!
92

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 09:09:13
Dùn Èideann Bully Wee # 91

I am not so gullible to think that a politician will tell me the truth just because I asked.
93

jdships,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 09:09:50
10 Hmm ..

Excellent post !!
Insurance for cyclists and mobility scooters is a must . Have been knocked over by a "scooter " driven on the pavement and never even got an apology from the "driver" .
Know of two cars damaged by cyclists who never stopped .
94

John H C,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 09:13:26
When a politition says "We have no plans etc."..... that means "We have not considered it yet" But really what a load of garbage. They just cannot be serious
95

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 13/09/2009 09:14:25
Well well - look who commented first at #1 & #2 - Tweedle-dum & Tweedle-dee...or are they indeed the same poster????
96

John H C,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 09:14:38
Sorry POLITICIAN
97

fife runner,

13/09/2009 09:16:57
most cyclists are car owners also.
98

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 09:18:01
92 Donkey Hote,

Ah, that explains rather a lot!

You would rather believe someone pursuing a blatant anti-SNP agenda than believe the SNP themselves?

Gullible or what?
99

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 13/09/2009 09:19:20
How were #1and #2 able to comment here at 19:32 and 22:05 yesterday evening, when most of us would still have seen only last week's edition of the SOS?

"Are you trying to collect road tax from three-year-olds on tricycles?"

Such people shouldn't be present on public roads in the first place. Roads are intended for people to get from place to place, unhindered, by whatever means they're using. A parallel use as children's play areas is incompatible with this.

Personally, as a pedestrian, I think it far more important that cyclists be tested and licensed than that they be taxed. Irresponsible cycling is much more the rule than the exception, including e.g. cycling at night without lights, using the footway as part of the road, and violating the green pedestrian crossing signal.

These activities are already illegal, and the police ought to enforce the law. There should be a penalty up to and including confiscation and destruction of the cycle, and well as a cycling ban for the rider.
100

Job Centre Plus,

13/09/2009 09:21:49
70. Ah, Justin, there you are!

We see you were posting all Saturday night from 7pm, through to 12.30, and up fresh at 7am to batter the keyboard again!

If only you put such effort into you search for more gainful employment!

Don't forget your appointment on Tuesday!
101

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

on my bike. 13/09/2009 09:22:38
Will it be cheaper for a unicycle and much dearer for a tricycle and even dearer still for a quadruped?

Its about time this Nats Government got on their bike they are fast becoming the laughing stock of world politics.
102

SlyFifer,

Somewhere South of Fife 13/09/2009 09:25:36
#40 Witty Nickname. Well I'm pleased to inform you that there is a new alternative to the SNP/ Currently within days of being launched is the Scottish Democratic Alliance www.scottishdemocraticalliance.org
We are repairing a fault with our web-site which could be completed this weekend.
We stand for Independence from the UK and the EU. We have extensive business friendly policies and one of our first acts would be to cancel road tax, in it's current form.
Please feel free to examine our web-site however incomplete. To non members, limited to executive policy summaries. Members have access to full policy documents. Join us, donate if you can. Help make a real difference.
103

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 09:28:12
#101 South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

Look no further than a mirror for a laughing stock!!!!!


Fool.
104

Roy,

13/09/2009 09:30:09
Somebody's flying a daft kite here. So why not a tax on pushchairs, wheelchairs, roller skates, skateboards, pogosticks, and for good measure, pedestrians' shoes?
105

C U Jimmy,

Mauchline 13/09/2009 09:30:49
A Scottish first in the World, Wow! Great!
106

Findlay Thompson,

13/09/2009 09:31:35
I'm sure many other posters have highlighted the fact that the headline & the Scottish Governments quoted response at the end of the article completely contradict each other. Which raises the question what is happening at the Scotsman Newspaper? Has the editor finally lost the place completely? This can't be classed as unbiased factual journalism. Marvel comics story lines are more believable. To produce this kind of bilge is indicative of a management takeover & an attempt by the present management to “burn the bridges” for what little readership they have left! This action leaves any future management a hill to climb in an attempt to woo back lost custom & restore the unbiased integrity of a once great newspaper!
107

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 13/09/2009 09:31:49
I find this suggestion utterly incredible and if theres some mandarin in a position of influence who has suggested such a scheme he should be given the big boot.

Its time that cycling was encouraged and any new road layouts ought to ensure that safer cycling is part and parcel of the planning process just as it is in the likes of the Netherlands.

Cycling is cleaner, healtier and if road/pavement layout is constructed properly then school kids could safely cycle to school rather than continue with the school run that happens right now.
108

akjem,

dundee 13/09/2009 09:31:52
If more people are encouraged to cycle on Scotland's roads, my journey to work will be even more disrupted every day. Too many cyclists are unaware of the Highway Code ( or choose to ignore it). They are a danger to other road users and I welcome all attempts to restrict their use of the public highways.
109

Phil C,

13/09/2009 09:33:00
WOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

The option of taxing cyclists is quite rightly up for discussion in the Cycling Action Plan for Scotland, along with all the pro-cycling options being explored. Nothing more, nothing less. There's no need for fistycuffs at this stage!!
110

Auld Twa,

Edinburghj 13/09/2009 09:34:07
"Why should all road users not pay road tax? If so, how much should it be for cyclists and how could it be enforced?"
111

,

13/09/2009 09:34:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
112

MacFergus,

ZEIST 13/09/2009 09:39:06
The most counterproductive tax ever invented.

Discourage motorists from using a bicycle - more congestion - more road improvements needed - costs far more than the tax you have collected.

It would be cheaper (and promote health) to tax the use of cars a bit more and subsidize bicycles.
113

,

13/09/2009 09:42:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
114

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 09:45:40
#111 - http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/05/28093408/7


And don't think Mister Souter isn't grateful!!!

"Which Mister Souter?" I hear innocent Scots ask? Who can Fifi be referring to???

Fifi is referring to the half a million pounds donation from the transport businessman Brian Souter in March 2007, following which the nationalists' commitment at the party's 2006 conference to re-regulate the bus network was not included in their 2007 manifesto. Mister Souter went on to make a further donation of £125,000 to the nationalist party funds, making him their single biggest donor. Mister Souter then made approaches to the nationalists for a £3 million subsidy for his company, Stagecoach, to develop a hovercraft service between Kirkcaldy and Portobello.

And now they're talking about taxing bikes!
115

Labour No More,

13/09/2009 09:56:27
This is a heap o' rubbish, there is no way that Bikes will be road taxed.

Who is running this newspaper?
116

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 09:57:34
#114 Fifi,

I had you marked down as someone above falling for the drivel churned out by this rag on a daily basis.

But no, seems you're as dumb as the rest of Rufus's playgroup!!!
117

The Breakfast Blob,

13/09/2009 09:58:48
What a wonderful day. An idea I have thought necessary for years is now having serious consideration. Cyclists may not contribute to pollution, but they are a bloody nuisance to pedestrians trying to cross the road when the lights are RED, cycling on pavements and not having vehicles which can be assessed for road worthiness. Regulate them. Tax, Insurance and an MOT.
118

Macnab.de,

near Hamburg, Germany 13/09/2009 09:59:23
. . . looking forward to tax discs for sheep in the Highlands!
119

walter,

13/09/2009 10:03:08
Legendre has lived in this country for 8 years as a dependent of his wife who was granted a student visa.
It is only now that his wife's visa has run out that he has bothered to apply for one himself.
His wive is also applying for a visa, Why are they making separate applications and not a joint one these two are playing the system if one gets accepted then the other will stay as a dependent.
Their children were born here so it would be interesting to know if they have their own British passports or if they travel on their mothers as that would mean they have been registered as American citizens.
Why is he not applying for permanent residency or citizenship as his time here, children born here, prove he can support himself and his family would all be taken into consideration.
120

walter,

13/09/2009 10:04:20
119
My apologises wrong story
121

Dougie Dougla,

Brisbane 13/09/2009 10:05:02
No doubt the monkeys who produce this anti SNP propoganda think they are being very clever.

Peterkin is the political editor, in any other newspaper it would be P45 time printing stuff like this but not at the Hootsman group.

As a believer in Karma might I suggest that Peterkin and his band of greasy stooges will be assured a very special place in post Independence Scottish life, at the Oban Times or such like.

122

The Strategist,

13/09/2009 10:06:43
This is more important.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/mod-poised-to-scrap-scots-jobs-and-start-a-political-war-1.919574#have-your-say
123

A Crofter,

Church of the Nazirene 13/09/2009 10:10:26
Time for FatMan to get on his bike.

Any soundbites on Trump's attempts to clear his fellow countrymen yet?
124

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 10:11:42
#121 Dougie,

That's not fair on Oban. What have they done to deserve clowns like that??
125

madman,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 10:12:52
Is it April 1ST today?
126

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 10:16:48
The media onslaught against the SNP Scottish Government continues unabated, not only through this “newspaper” but also through the EBC radio programmes such as “Shareen on Sunday” which manages to have various commentators on Scottish current affairs without including anyone from the pro-independence lobby.

Tartan covered shortbread tins are given a good airing, rather emphasising the vacuous and simplistic establishment view propounded by our establishment orientated complacent middle class conservative cringers.

The sniffing, sneering attitude towards the SNP displayed by the programme presenter was a disgrace to the concept of impartial, professional journalism.

127

HBOS Customer,

KILMARNOCK 13/09/2009 10:17:17
Is this news? The consultatiom document was published in May 2009, the consultation ended on 20 August 2009.

Within one line of a very large document the question "10. Should all road users pay road tax? If so, how much should it be for cyclists and how could it be enforced?" was posed.

This merits a story on HOOTSMAN? Regardless of all the other points mentioned by others does the SG have such tax-raising powers devolved to it?

Another example of why this paper is going under.
128

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 10:26:49
127
Any excuse to attack the SNP will do.At least this journo didn't lead with "SNP Accused", like his master would have done.
129

Al Pacino,

13/09/2009 10:34:15
Why would cyclists have to pay for the upkeep of something they don't damage?
What about people who only ride off road? Glentress etc? Silly idea.
130

Dougie Dougla,

B 13/09/2009 10:35:47
#125 MADMAN

On April the 1 st they are planning to print an unbiased story for a change.

Jimmy Le Pie - too true my friend
131

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 10:36:23
129
Of course it is Al, that's why this paper is trying to link it to the SNP.
132

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 10:38:42
I bet Common Purpose are behind this outrage.
133

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 10:44:34
132
Aye, SoS's coverage of this story is an outrage; but blaming Common Purpose?
134

Scunnered!!,

Lenzie 13/09/2009 10:46:24
What a load of journalistic mince! Mr Peterkin and his ilk have reduced the once honorable Scotsman in to Scotland's version of the US's National Enquirer.

Couldn't find a way to write a few aliens or perhaps an Elvis sighting in to your story Tom? Better luck next time.

The media are responsible for the dumbing down of this and other countries.
135

Morry,

Scotland 13/09/2009 10:48:20
Scotland, where indeoendence really means life under dictatorship and silly ideas.
136

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 10:49:52
132 Fifi la Bonbon,

Who is this “Common Purpose” to whom you refer?

They could not possibly be Tories masquerading as Labourites could they?

Such a thing has never been heard of!

At least not in the last few days.
137

Gabh,

Göteborg. 13/09/2009 10:53:47
Bonkers. When every other country is trying to encourage cycling. This would make world news and make Scotland a laughing stock.
138

The Ayrshire Bard,

13/09/2009 10:54:51
On one hand we have politicians screaming about pollution and punishing car drivers financially while on the other hand encouraging people to use their bikes or walk.
The school run is a nightmare across the country and will only be eliminated by encouraging youngsters to cycle or walk to school, and many do. But now they will be penalised by this bunch of pretend politicians who couldn't organise a raffle.
Obese children are being encouraged to get on their bikes, but they would be discouraged by this proposal.
Proposing is one thing but enforcing is something that will be almost impossible.
However, as the SNP's newest recruit, Charles Linskaill, is in favour of it, we'd better watch out for his utterances are highly regarded now in the ranks of the claymore swinging nutters.
139

KWC,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 11:03:24
It must be fun to be in Government. Imagine a bunch of grown ups sitting around a table and actually coming up with ideas. The sad thing is people voted for them to do this.
140

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:03:44
138
Read the last sentence of the article.
I assume by your tone ie "claymore swinging nutters" that you are not a fan of the SNP? You don't have to be to see the blatent bias in this newspaper.
141

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 11:03:58
#135 Morry,Scotland

You forgot to add 'compulsory spelling lessons'!!!

;))
142

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:04:03
#115, #121, #126, #127, #128, #130, #131, #134 - what you need is a proper patriotic press and media, that can be relied upon not to be disrespectful to those set to rule over us.

What happened here is no more than a gang of malicious civil servants who put an option into an official consultation, taking advantage of a hapless minister who was too busy organising a National Conversation event in Auchenshuggle or somewhere like that to actually READ what his department was publishing.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/05/28093408/7

Now a properly patriotic newspaper would protect an incompetent and lazy nationalist minister and not let something like this impede the nation's steady course to Freedom From Under The Yoke Of English Domination by reporting subversive news stories sowing doubts in the mind of the populace.

A free press is a serious obstacle to the cause of national freedom. I thought all nationalists understood this. What are they paying Kevin Pringle for, for goodness' sake? Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if Common Purpose was behind his outrage.
143

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 11:07:07
To all the fools who believe this drivel ask yourself one simple question.

When was the Scottish Government given tax raising powers by Westmidden for Road Excise Duty???

Take your time now!!
144

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:07:40
This is the chap who signed of the consultation.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/273788/0078310.jpg

The civil servants who let this photo loose are obviously under the influence of unpatriotic forces.

145

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:13:49
142
Fifi, I started commenting on these boards when there was a Labour administration. Guess what? The anti SNP bias was just the same-any pretense that this paper is an organ of free speech and accountability is just that-a pretense.
146

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:14:01
#140 - what would be the fun in being a nationalist if even in their fantasy lives they couldn't dream of wearing a big flouncy shirt and a tammy, and swinging a huge weapon about?
147

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:15:43
#145 - I do understand. To a nationalist, free speech is what advances the nationalist cause.
148

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:16:32
#145 - to whom, exactly, is the press supposed to be accountable?
149

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:16:47
Good grief the rate of illiteracy amongst Scotland on Sunday posters is very high isn't it.

Well either these poor individuals can't read, or they are incredibly dense.

Or perhaps both.

Fifi - you should be a writer of fiction - children's fiction or perhaps scuence fiction. You have a talent for making up stories.

150

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:19:12
#149 - I am merely pointing a finger, and laughing, at what The Scottish Ministers have done all by themselves. You couldn't make it up and I haven't done so.
151

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:19:54
147
Eh? So you are advocating censorship for the Unionists cause Fifi?
152

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:21:07
150 see your own posts, see 146 for a start. You have a rich inner fantasy life which you reveal to all every time you post. You should write stories for real, who knows you might make a few bob out of it.
153

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:21:53
148
The people.Who else?
154

Tarchin,

Lothian 13/09/2009 11:23:30
As to the question of cyclists paying road tax, I have no strong opinions for or against as I am neither a motorist or a cyclist.

I think, however, that it should mandatory, if it not already, for all cyclists and users of mobility scooters to be properly insured. I am almost deaf and I find it difficult to hear mobility scooters approaching. In these days of crowded pavements and with an ageing population this is a legal area that should be clarified.
155

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:23:59
#151 - I'm not, but plenty people here seem to be. But I would be interested in who you think the press ought to be "accountable" to!

Personally I think the press should report on anything and everything they want to, and if politicians, businesspersons, bishops, imams, and any of the rest of those who think they are powerful and important don't like what they read, tough!
156

David34,

13/09/2009 11:25:59
Sadly the comment:

"The prospect of cyclists paying a charge, like motorists, to use roads comes in a document outlining the Scottish Government's vision for cycling."

The Vehicle Excise Duty is on emissions NOT road use and cyclists can easily be assimilated under the present system as they would fall into Band A, just like motorists.

Either this Government department is worryingly ignorant of their own tax system?

Unless of course it is an intention that cyclists, like motorists are facing a new tax on road use that will be in addition to the present VED?
157

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:26:06
#152 - and who gets to speak for the people Politicians? The Scottish Executive?

This chap? - http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/273788/0078310.jpg

I think the press should be "accountable" to no-one. If you don't like it, don't read it.
158

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:26:23
''Personally I think the press should report on anything and everything they want to, and if politicians, businesspersons, bishops, imams, and any of the rest of those who think they are powerful and important don't like what they read, tough''

Well yes I think we would all like that, but we don't get it do we?

If you can't see the bias in this and other newspapers then you are either thick, which you're not, or denying reality.
159

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:28:27
149
I have found myself guilty in not finishing many Scotsman articles, the ones usually headed by "SNP accused" or written by David Maddox...Which amounts to the same thing.
Perhaps they are on to this and leave the truth for the very last sentence?
160

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:29:04
#152 - I meant #153. And there's nothing wrong with having an imagination.

The civil servants responsible for this consultation should have imagined that their minister might not bother to read the consultation document without signing it off.

Look at him, the poor wee potato-headed poltroon -
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/273788/0078310.jpg
161

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:30:04
159 Perhaps fifi should try the google test ''SNP accused'' - it does bring back rather a lot of Maddox ravings.
162

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:30:56
#158 - what's wrong with being biased if the taxpayer's not paying for it?

I want the BBC to not be obviously biased, but everything else is. Next you'll be asking for the Scottish Ministers not to be biased! And we are paying for them.
163

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:31:47
160 It's a *consultation* document fifi. There is no need to get your knickers in a twist over it. And why call the poor man a potato-headed poltroon for doing his job? That's not nice.
164

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:34:36
162 The tax payer will end up paying for it when Johnston Press goes out of business in the middle of a recession. We'll need to pick up the tab for their former staff's unemployment benefits. In case you haven't noticed their sales are in freefall. Biased reporting doesn't seem to have been a good commercial decision for them.
165

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:35:02
162
So you are happy with biased coverage against the SNP; would you be happy with biased coverage aginst...lets say...Jews, perhaps?
166

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:35:40
#163 - It is a consultation document. And the potato-headed poltroon only has to do one thing, which is to give the political lead to the civil servants, and he let this thing about taxing cyclists get past him.

But I didn't call him a potato-headed poltroon for doing his job.

He's a poltroon for not doing his job, and he's potato-headed because he looks like a potato.

167

Scunner,

Aberdeen 13/09/2009 11:37:00
We should have a tax at the border for people coming to Scotland from other countries.
168

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:39:07
#165 - the nationalist party isn't the Jews, it's the political party which holds the reins of government by dint of being the largest minority party by one seat following the elections in 2007.

Are you comparing the governing political party with a religious and ethnic minority with a history of being persecuted and subject to genocide? Is that really how nationalists in Scotland perceive themselves in 2009?
169

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:40:41
#167 - I have no doubt that Mr Swinney has a paper about this on his desk.
170

Pa broon,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 11:40:51
won't be long now before they are taxing fresh air and sunshine!
171

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:42:29
166 Ah so in your view consultation documents should only contain things which are popularist. What if there is an argument for taxing cyclists? That should just be suppressed because it might give people like you a chance to mock the Govt?

Thank goodness you don't run the country.
172

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:44:13
168 There you go making up stories again.
173

Sedov,

13/09/2009 11:44:49
Just back from my usual sunday morning cycle ride using the sustran "off road tracks" - fantastic way to keep fit.

The spin merchants who workship at the foot of Salmond et al say its only a draft proposal to tax cycles so what's the panic?

Of course draft proposals , or in this cae, DAFT proposals can easily turn into reality if they are not nipped in the bud before the Tartan Taliban, in the shape of the NATS force us off our bikes and back into our cars -and how daft is that?
174

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:45:13
168
No. So that would be "bad" bias then? Good bias is against the the political party that you happen to dislike?
175

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:48:41
173 You are another one who can't apparently read.

The SNP want to *increase* bike use, not drive people into their cars.

Try reading the article before you post, I usually find that helps.
176

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 11:49:22
#173 Sedov,

Word to the wise.

Read before opening mouth and uttering drivel.

Old Scottish proverb.
177

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 11:50:26
173
Worship at the foot of Salmond eh?
Which particular politician do you revere?
178

Andyfromedinburgh,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 11:50:31
Oh dear.... yet another one for the regular reactionaries, why is it CL#4 and Fifi#13 etc are so angry.... were they knocked over by a cyclist when they were 3? Grown adults.....

As for the tax idea..... any primary school child could work out that it would cost far more to administer than it would provide surplus..... get on with realistic road pricing in our cities and raise some meaningful £

I we are bing provocative why not ban SUVs from ten miles from all primary schools I say.
179

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:51:03
#171 - of course there's a case to be made for taxing cycling, just as there's a case to be made for taxing people from outside Scotland at the border, and for taxing fresh air and sunshine, as suggested at #167 and #170.

These would all be courageous options.

But Kevin Pringle, the un-named and unelected but very highly paid Scottish Government spokeswoman who really does run the country, has said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."

So I'm guessing that there are no plans to be that courageous.
180

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:52:28
#174 - what has that do with the Jews?
181

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 11:53:58
Asked the question on BBC “Politics Today”, “are you considering a tax on cyclists”, John Swinney answered clearly “No”.

Ho hum unionista cringers, guess you have lost again.
182

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 11:57:05
179 Do you fancy Kevin Pringle as you seem to be obsessed with him. I don't think he's paid any more than any other person would be in the position that he holds. However I don't think it is part of his job to censor consultation documents which generally look at all the options as they are *consultation* documents.

There is no case whatsoever for taxing people at the border or for taxing fresh air and sunshine as you contest - that is your vivid imagination talking againm isn't it.
183

Jason Patchett,

Gosport 13/09/2009 11:58:27
Not very green. As I understood it,that was SNP policy, and that is to promote a greener society. Could be their Waterloo.
184

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 11:58:49
#181 - to be fair to Mr Swinney, he has had a few hours to see the paper and talk to Kevin Pringle so he got the chance to carefully craft a response. Mr Stevenson, the transport minister who even his best friends would say looks quite like a potato, is probably laying manure at his allotment right now and is not available to the press.
185

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 12:01:04
184 You are making things up again aren't you.
186

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 12:04:28
#182 - I just think more people should know about Mr Kevin Pringle.

Kevin Pringle is paid much more than any other Special Adviser, because he's the Senior Special Adviser. He writes the words that nationalist ministers say, but he never gets name checked by reporters.

Kevin Pringle is Senior Special Adviser to First Minister Alex Salmond, focusing on media relations and external communications. He was Research Officer at nationalist party headquarters from 1989-1994; Director of Communications from 1994-99; and was communications director at the Scottish Parliament for the newly elected nationalist Group from 1999-2001. From 2001-2004, he managed media relations for the nationalist Group at Westminster. He was Corporate Affairs Manager at Scottish Gas from 2004 to 2006, and specialised in corporate responsibility issues before returning to the nationalist party in January 2007 to work on the election campaign.

He has more political power than most nationalist ministers but he's never won an election.

More people should know about him.
187

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 12:04:32
184 Fifi la Bonbon

I do not know how cute you look, however with a name like that I suspect that you are trying to hide something.

What part of “NO” do you not understand?
188

The ex Pat,

13/09/2009 12:04:56
Salmond - On yer Bike'
189

The ex Pat,

13/09/2009 12:07:45
177 - Which particular politician do you revere?

Absolutly NONE!!
190

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 12:09:29
186 It has taken me approximately 5 seconds to google and uncover a story about a former senior special advisor to Jack McConnell, so quite clearly the role is not unique to Mr Pringle.

It is your opinion that he has more political power than most nationalist Ministers (or Government Ministers as normal people call them) you should try and stop attempting to pass off your opinions as facts.
191

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 12:12:02
#190 - It is an undeniable fact that I am sincere in my opinions. What's wrong with that?
192

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 12:12:40
180
Bias is good against the SNP, but not against Jews, I understand now Fifi.
193

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 12:14:14
191 It doesn't matter how sincerely you hold your opinions, that is all they are.

You make statements which you can't justify. Try saying ''in my view'' before you make them.
194

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 12:19:56
#193 - Why should I give a "health warning" before I express an opinion, which as far as I am concerned is probably true? I'm not the BBC!
195

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 12:22:05
194 Because no one will take what you say seriously if you don't distinguish between opinion and fact.

Anyway it's too nice a day to argue any more I'm off.
196

Rock Lobster,

13/09/2009 12:23:52


Wee Glen; [Holding a copy of the SoS] Are you seriously looking at taxing cyclists?

John Swinney; [Smiling] No.
197

Hagbard Celine,

Atlantis 13/09/2009 12:24:16
All this daft idea shows is the complete lack of talent in the Scottish civil service.
Such a tax would conflict with the governments other policies and cost more to administer than it would ever raise.
Why didn't they consider taxing civil servant's workplace parking?
198

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 12:25:26
#195 - that's what this is all about. Nationalists get upset because they don't think people will take them seriously if they aren't always kvetching and moaning.
199

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 12:26:55
#196 - You've no idea how much time Kevin Pringle spent with Mr Swinney early this morning, practising getting that denial just right.
200

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 12:30:42
Dùn Èideann Bully Wee # 98

The SNP are desperately denying this story because it confirms how stupid they really are. It also shows just how desperate they are to raise revenue from any direction and they are putting civil servants under pressure to come up with revenue expanding ideas.
Taxes will go up and benefits will slashed if Scotland becomes independent This latest, ridiculous idea of Salmond's is just the tip of the iceberg of stupid ideas.
201

Alfie Bett,

13/09/2009 12:31:03
This article starts," ROAD tax on cyclists is being considered by Scottish Government civil servants"-------This article ends"Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."any resemblence to news as regards the rest of the article of Peterkinese tripe is purely coincidental and only for consumption for Justa Timberheid and his alter ego's,really the Scotsman must be having a laugh putting this sort of thing in print,the only bigger laugh is the response from the usual unionist halfwits.
202

Homo Sapiens,

Elstree 13/09/2009 12:31:39
What an utterly stupid and counter-productive idea to tax cyclists! Road maintenance? What a joke, besides having some of the most poorly maintained roads in the Western world, Scotland should increase the bike trails and bike lanes to ensure safety of bike riders, and encourage more people to take up cycling. It saves energy, is non-polluting, free of "greenhouse" gases, and improves the health of those using the bikes, lowering NHS expenditures. Maybe Cyclcists should recieve a tax credit for using their bikes, and reducing the congestion on the roads, and making a positive contribution to society, while lowering the need for government to invest heavily in maintining the roads. A Bike Tax will just reduce the number of cyclists, is unenforceable, and utterly counterproductive. What next? Tax pedestrians for using the sidewalk? How about a tax on breating air? Silly and stupid. The setting up and enforcing a bike tax will cost more than it will bring in revenue. It will only encourage people giving up their bike ride if they are forced to chose between a taxed car and a taxed bike! Silly, silly, silly!
203

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 12:34:07
200 Unless you are stalking Mr Pringle (which appears to be a possibility) you don't know either.

You should have said Kevin Pringle MIGHT have briefed Mr Swinney etc.

You really do have to stop this making things up.
204

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 12:37:13
#204 - I really think that he did, though. His job is to make nationalist ministers look sincere and well-informed, or in the worst case to tell them what they think.
205

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 12:43:29
#203 - I agree with much that you say.
206

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 12:49:23
Jimmy Le Pie # 143

Hey Jimmy, I think you are missing the point. This is just one of a whole new raft of taxes planned by the SNP if by some mischance they manage to con the Scottish electorate into voting for independence.
This is an accidental leak of a policy, for which some hapless civil servant will be made to pay.
207

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/09/2009 13:00:02
#207 - " This is just one of a whole new raft of taxes planned"

You may be right. I think we need to watch out for -

the Tartan Tax. a Tax imposed on all and any use of tartan. Anyone seen out in a kilt will be required to carry a tax disk on his sporran. Those in tartan trews will not be exempt either.

Shortbread tax - because all shortbread tins have tartan on them.

Golf Tax - pay as you play, unless you are playing at Mister Trump's new resort.

Tea Tax - One for each cup and one for the pot.

Tig Tax - children playing in the playground will need to stump up.

Buggy Tax - any pensioner beetling along on one of these tricycles will need to pay their fair share.

Stairlift tax - Tough on Stannah Stairlifts and the cause of Stannah Stairlifts

Erroneous Opinion Tax - massive charges on anyone expressing opinions or reporting news not approved by the First Minister's Senior Special Adviser. An idea imported from Venezuela, where they know how to deal with incorrect modes of thought.

Keep them coming!
208

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 13:05:49

Hey Salmond, how about a window tax?
209

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 13:18:00
I see where you are going here Donkey, you're taking Peterkins's imagined tax, and taking it far beyond the ridiculous, well done. Next you'll be saying Salmond wants a poll tax.Hilarious stuff.
210

Semper vigilo,

glenrothes 13/09/2009 13:19:59
Just the usual rubbish story.
211

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 13:20:06
#199 Legless,

I've got a job you can only dream about.

Don't you wish you'd stuck in when you were at school??

You did go to school???
212

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 13:23:52
Conan the Librarian™ # 210

There's no kidding you, eh?
213

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 13/09/2009 13:23:55
With his fat gut, it's about time that Salmond got on a bike. What clown thought this daft idea up?
214

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 13:26:27
Perhaps some of our Sleaze Party activists can remind me which party froze council tax, abolished bridge tolls, did away with hospital parking charges, reduced prescription charges and abolished tuition fees????

No answers??????
215

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13/09/2009 13:26:40
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216

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 13:27:59
Jimmy Le Pie # 212

Hey Jimmy, you an astronaut or something like that, a fast jet pilot, uh?
217

,

13/09/2009 13:29:49
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218

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 13:31:38
213
Good comeback, did I miss you at the Festival?
214
His name's Peterkin, it's just under the headline.
219

,

13/09/2009 13:32:21
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,

13/09/2009 13:33:04
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221

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 13:34:34
Any word yet on the date for the much vaunted "Britisness Day"?

I believe this was one of Comrade Broon's master plans to con Middle England into thinking he was from North Britain.

Easy to see why he's about to be binned by the Comrades!!
222

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 13:36:10
Spookums 86 # 221

How did your time in Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam go, you didn't get caught then, or, are you out on bail?
223

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 13:36:13
Afternoon Spookums, howzit hingin?
224

,

13/09/2009 13:39:11
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225

,

13/09/2009 13:40:19
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,

13/09/2009 13:40:55
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13/09/2009 13:42:46
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Scunnered!!,

Lenzie 13/09/2009 13:43:47
What about a "bandwidth" tax?

That might reduce the amount of off-topic, political rambling and general nonsense that Fifi La Bonbon and others keep posting here.

thoughts? Fifi?
229

,

13/09/2009 13:44:37
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230

radge dug,

13/09/2009 13:44:38
This being the Hootsmon, i'm not sure i should believe this.

But, if cyclists are gonna be taxed, then tax pedestrians too. That's fair?
231

DALESMAN,

Yorkshire Dales 13/09/2009 13:44:55
Brilliant Idea should be applied to all the U.K.and while they are doing Tax the Crag Rats and the Ramblers. Who pay nothing towards the upkeep of the public footpaths PUT A TAX ON WALKING BOOTS .
232

,

13/09/2009 13:46:08
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233

radge dug,

13/09/2009 13:47:03
Yeah, having re-read the story, there are a lot of 'ifs' in it. Trust the Hootsmon to highlight the most ridiculous one. More Pravda-esqu propaganda masquerading as 'news'.
234

Scunnered!!,

Lenzie 13/09/2009 13:49:27
*223 Spookums 86

It's not the tax on the shotgun that gets you it's the ammunition tax, same principle as razors and razorblades!!

Claymores are however government sponsored and tax exempt.
235

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13/09/2009 13:50:28
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236

,

13/09/2009 13:51:56
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13/09/2009 13:54:09
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Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 13/09/2009 13:58:19
The Tax on Bikes is a farcical idea.

The idea of having Third Perty Insurance however needs to be considered. An accident caused by a cyclist could have serious financial consequences in the event of death or injuries. Many cyclists are children and it would be silly that they would have to pay insurance. All will have a parent or guardian. Where the parent or guardian has motorcar insurance it should be impliedly extended to cover them and their dependents and their cycles. And where someone is not automatically covered by this method, such as cyclists who don't have car insurance, a state appointed policy paid for by the motor insurance companies should cover the rest.
239

Baggy Troosers,

13/09/2009 13:59:12
200

Feefee away and do yer dishes,your a paranoid old horse.
240

,

13/09/2009 14:00:51
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241

Baggy Troosers,

13/09/2009 14:05:53
'
242

Phil-Atelist,

13/09/2009 14:14:44
*Please enter your comment*
243

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 14:21:16
208 I see you have given up all pretence of being politically literate, and have mistaken this forum as an auditon for presenting Jackanory.

Or were you trying to be funny.

If you were you didn't try hard enough.
244

WL,

Livingston 13/09/2009 14:27:43
A road tax for bicycles is of course nothing new. In the Netherlands it did exist locally in the 19th century, but nationwide from 1924 to 1941 when it was abolished by the German occupiers!
In 1940 road tax was paid for 3.6 million bikes on a population of 8.8 million.
245

nolimits,

Notrh Thompson Valley 13/09/2009 15:59:17
Ho ho ho ho, I do love a chuckle with my morning coffee.
246

Edinburghcyclist,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 16:04:45
As you can tell from the name, I'm a cyclist.

Basically the reason why there is talking on taxing cyclists is because cycling is becoming more and more popular as a mode of transport.

A tax on cycling is like a tax on walking. It's pointless and is just a way to make money. If the Government wants us to leave our cars at home, they should at least encourage us by not charging us for the simple act of cycling! Cycling is a brilliant way to reduce car use (and lets face it, we need to reduce car use) and I say that we should encourage in our cities continental style utility cycling (see http://www.copenhagenize.com/ to see what I mean).

I don't want to pay just so I can get from my house to tesco in a decent amount of time. I don't want a tax on a light (both on congestion, pollution AND on the pocket) mode of transport. We should encourage cycling! Our cities would be a much better place for it!
247

Edward,

13/09/2009 16:07:47
Why does everyon fall for such a crassly made up story??
This is form the Labour Party spin machine
easily identified as Tom Peterkin 'wrote' the piece
As has been pointed out John Swinney was asked if he was going to tax cyclists and he said NO

So once again Labour lies are exposed
248

Hempy,

Scotland 13/09/2009 16:17:06
Tax is not about carbon emmissions (thats always been a cover for any new tax) Tax is taking money in as many ways that you can, from as many people as you can, to spend it in a way that gives you a large client group (those that benefit from government handouts) so that you are re elected. After all its painless using other peoples money to benefit yourself!
249

morris,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 17:06:37
There is a rumour going around that the government is intending taxing stupidity,Now that really should worry some of the contributors on here!
If its a sliding scale people like Justin Timbercake and Group Captain Lionel Mandrake have much cause for concern ,and the HOOTSMON will definitely be finished.
250

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 17:06:57
Oh well, that will be the large SNP lead in the opinion polls destroyed then!

Or maybe not.
251

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 13/09/2009 17:12:19
On Gordon Brown's "Britisher Day", I'll get up, go to work, wait half an hour for the overcrowded train, throw the beggar on the street 50p on the way to the call centre. On the way home I'll buy a bottle of Tesco Special Victory Gin then watch the telly.
252

Justin Timbercake,

13/09/2009 17:14:48
250 morris,edinburgh 13/09/2009 17:06:37
There is a rumour going around that the government is intending taxing stupidity,
--------------------------------------------

Well if it does happen, you will end up in the super tax bracket.
253

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

13/09/2009 17:16:14
215

"Perhaps some of our Sleaze Party activists can remind me which party froze council tax, abolished bridge tolls, did away with hospital parking charges, reduced prescription charges and abolished tuition fees????"

Oh yes, and they did all that without raising a single penny of extra tax, because it was funded out of the "miserly" "unfair" etc etc Barnett block grant.

Although some might say that some of that "making stuff free" now looks none too clever, given that a new bridge needs building and the universities are saying the need fees back.

Never mind, eh?
254

morris,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 17:19:30
243
Maybe he is the voice of the silent majority or one of the Dont Knows we always hear about in opinion polls.
Ive often wondered should they be classified as Labour voters?They dont appear to know either.
Having said that........................
Confucius say Philately will get you nowhere!
255

brownlie,

13/09/2009 17:20:52
218 Spookums 86

No tax for me - I'm a tax-exile. Cyclists are a bloody nuisance on the road and should all have their saddles confiscated and any cyclists caught using a saddle should be fined at least £50,000 or 10 euros - whichever is the largest.
256

morris,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 17:21:09
253 A predictable response (unfortunately).
257

brownlie,

13/09/2009 17:25:51
257 morris

What do you expect from a "dict".
258

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/09/2009 17:37:22
#253/254

You appear to be joined at the hip.
259

morris,

edinburgh 13/09/2009 17:41:06
256

"Cyclists should have their saddles confiscated ....."

Gee that sounds painful.

One way to get them to stand up and be counted I suppose.
260

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 18:00:54
Wee Bully has a point, Smee and Rufus...or are ye baith in the Stockbridge Tap?
261

Justin Timbercake,

13/09/2009 18:09:36
Conan, no, just in the Scotsman offices.

You would have to be mad to post on here if you were not getting paid for it.

I notice Bully Boy has been on all day.
262

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 18:18:43
Just watching Scrapheap Challenge, a hefty guy knocking lumps oot of his Heath-Robinson contraption in order to make it crawl a wee bit faster...Scotsman Editorial team anyone?
263

Ellie,

Edinburgh 13/09/2009 18:43:38
Will I get a rebate - I'm disabled and don't walk on the pavement, oh sometimes use a wheelchair that's 4 wheels!!
264

Gary Inserik,

Nova Scotia 13/09/2009 18:43:47
"Government in talks over tax on cyclists"

Not it's not. That's a lie. This newspaper is lying. Should we expect anymore from this tabloid?
265

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 18:45:18
248 Yep it's astonishing how many posters here today posted first and engaged brains later.

They should be able to tell from past experience that whatever the headline says will be the exact opposite of the truth.

I suppose they are walking examples of the ''shoot first and ask questions later'' brigade. Not always wise with hindsight after they've made a complete ass of themselves.
266

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 18:48:48
264
Ellie, you are fine, this article is merely poor, if not down right bad journalism.
267

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 18:50:24
I mean look at 1 and 2 the chuckle brothers.

They had hours before everyone else to read the article and they still posted rubbish!

They are like Pav;ov's dog - the paper says SNP and they bark like good little doggies.
268

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 18:52:05
oops - Pavlov

267 It is sensationalistic journalism worthy of a red top tabloid - I am waiting to read an article about 'Alex Salmond ate my hamster' next.
269

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 18:56:57
269
Heh, just eating? Surely he tortured it first?
270

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 18:58:33
270 Of course he did it was an English hamster. And he boils his eggs while they're still in the chicken.

Etc.

271

Conan the Librarian™,

http://mypseudepigrapha.blogspot.com/2009/07/sadis 13/09/2009 19:02:40
271
Look quickly above, it'll be red soon :¬)
272

tomislav,

home 13/09/2009 19:04:07
They are not our Government, our Government is in Westminster
273

brownlie,

13/09/2009 19:06:41
I'm getting really tyred of silly head-lines about bikes.
274

Gary Inserik,

Nova Scotia 13/09/2009 19:09:32
This rag is telling lies.



Try that for size.
275

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 19:10:27
273
Thank you for your witty, cogent and impeccably spelled comment, tovarich.
276

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 19:12:15
274
Good evening brownlie. What was the Hibs score again?
277

,

13/09/2009 19:14:59
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278

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 13/09/2009 19:15:03
Registratio plates, road tax, COT (an annual MOT for bikes)and compulsory 3rd party insurance plus a full cycling test should be forced on cyclists. In general they are selfish people with zero regard for other peoples' safety and property.

Fines and penalties for cyclists should be the same as for motorists.
279

brownlie,

13/09/2009 19:17:14
277 Conan,

Evening, Conan,

They were'nt playing today. I think most of them are wee Frees.
280

Gary Inserik,

Nova Scotia 13/09/2009 19:18:50
The Scotsman is intent in destroying Scotland. How about you guys tell them to F_kc right off?

This newspaper is total rubbish, filled with totally rubbish journo's (except Rab, he's cool.) What a crock of sh*t this paper is. A breeding ground of liebore fann*es.

281

Alex MacPhee,

13/09/2009 19:21:01
64 :
It is true that road maintenance comes from general taxation, but only in the sense that everything comes from general taxation, as tax income is not in general ring-fenced, whatever the nominal reason for its raising. Roadbuilding also comes from general taxation, and cyclists (or their parents!) pay for roads through the various highways authorities.

If a tax is to be raised for road usage, as opposed to any notional costs incurred through road usage (such as damage repairs), then there is no logical distinction between a cyclist and a pedestrian. And whereas a vehicle requires a minimum age and an authorisation, which makes taxation relatively easy to track and manage, how do you set the age at which a cyclist should be taxed? Will any such tax revenue be spent largely in time wasted checking if an observed cyclist on the road is of an age to pay tax?

The proposal is innately stupid.
282

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 19:21:52
Spookums 86 # 233

Where you come from you don't pay a tax on arms, you go to the nearest military post, sign out an M16 and then go snipe at a few Palestinians.
Is that a tactic that the SNP should adopt for its many opponents? Judging by your post @ 233 you would have no objections...
283

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 19:23:47
280
I know they weren't um...playing, but what was the score?
284

brownlie,

13/09/2009 19:24:50
283

Palestinians in Leith? How do you recognise them?
285

brownlie,

13/09/2009 19:25:57
284 Conan,

2-0 for Lady Hamilton's mob.
286

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 19:27:01
Spookums 86 # 241

"The most i have received was a tiny cut to my lip but i have broken kneecaps, collar bones, skulls, toes, fingers and noses on my opponents, does this no tell you summit ?"

Yes, if you played with men and not little girls it would be you that got maimed. Bumptious moron!
287

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 19:28:28
283
They don't pay a tax on arms in Leith?

Oh, you're being anti-semitic, silly me.
288

Jimmy Le Pie,

13/09/2009 19:29:13
tomislav,

My government is in Edinburgh.

I'm Scottish and would NEVER describe myself as British.
289

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 19:31:55
Observer,, # 244

Jackanory, you give your age away.
Yeah, I know, you saw the repeats. ha... ha... ha......
290

brownlie,

13/09/2009 19:33:02
Well, well, Tartan Bond, also known as Paisley Pete etc etc etc has a brand-new moniker.
291

Displaced Scot,

UK 13/09/2009 19:35:39
This is a great idea, why, if will free up the roads from cyclist who think they are better than the rest of us.
Also it will free Scotland from the idiots in the SNP.
292

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 19:37:36
290 Where's Sancho Panza tonight then?
293

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 19:37:51
morris # 260

No saddle, the Plook from Leith would just love it right "up im."
294

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 19:37:55
291
Beat me to it brownlie, the BNP's Arschloch in Paisley has surfaced again.
295

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 19:38:43
292 Before I called other people idiots I would have read the article. Idiot.
296

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 19:40:01
295, 272 - hilarious stuff.
297

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 19:43:05
297
Thanks Obs, you should try a blog...
298

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 19:44:00
brownlie # 285

Palestinians in Leith? How do you recognise them?
The Spook has had lessons from an early age, mothers milk sort of thing...
Have you read his later post on Claymores? Do you think the creep has told you everything about his background?
299

,

13/09/2009 19:45:16
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300

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 19:46:37
Observer, # 293

Searching for a few windmills for us to sort out...
301

,

13/09/2009 19:47:28
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302

brownlie,

13/09/2009 19:48:04
299 Donkey Hote

When you were registering your moniker it would have been more appropriate if you had substituted an "l" for the "t". It obviously takes extreme courage to be insulting from the safety of your anonymity.
303

,

13/09/2009 19:48:46
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304

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 19:48:55
299
You really are a vile creature.Are you polishing your bowler hat as you post?
305

,

13/09/2009 19:50:56
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306

,

13/09/2009 19:54:11
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307

,

13/09/2009 19:56:46
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308

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 19:57:47
Conan the Librarian™ # 305

I have never been photographed with Ian Paisley MP DUP, your political Grand Master Alec Salmond MP SNP, has though!
309

,

13/09/2009 19:58:07
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310

,

13/09/2009 19:59:49
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311

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 20:01:55
307
Hey Spook, I thought he was Rufus at first! Profuse apologies to Rufus.And you won't see me say that often.
312

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/09/2009 20:02:23
311 What do you think Legolas means? I think it is an imaginary elf. Are you an imaginary elf?
313

,

13/09/2009 20:04:02
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314

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 20:04:41
309
A bit too lefty for you was he?
315

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:06:46
Spookums 86 # 312

You don't like Catholics, Palestinians: who do you like?
316

,

13/09/2009 20:07:22
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317

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 20:11:12
314
I thought it was an extremely painful square plastic extruding orifice.
318

,

13/09/2009 20:12:06
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319

,

13/09/2009 20:14:02
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320

brownlie,

13/09/2009 20:15:49
320 Spookum


This poster's sole objective is to foment and promote racism, hatred and bigotry.
321

,

13/09/2009 20:19:04
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322

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:19:56
Conan the Librarian™ # 316

I agree with you, Ian Paisley is way too left of Alec Salmond for my liking.
323

,

13/09/2009 20:22:40
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324

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 20:23:25
True brownlie, but we should not try to stop him, his bile should be seen by all.
He has a right to foment sectarian kerap.
325

brownlie,

13/09/2009 20:29:08
326 Conan,

I'm not trying to stop him - I think ridicule is the best answer and I suspect a rant, showing him in his true colours, will be forth-coming from him shortly.
326

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:31:06
Spookums 86 # 237

"Thanks for the heads up, well im off to buy a claymore, i love they thing and you canny argue back at them."

The voice of experience: MI5 notified.
327

Conan the Librarian™,

13/09/2009 20:31:48
324
Arschloch. That old gets intransigence caused a lot of peoples death, civilian, police and army.In a list of religious numpties, he is just behind Bin Laden.
328

,

13/09/2009 20:32:18
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329

brownlie,

13/09/2009 20:32:29
328 Donkey

MFI don't sell claymores.
330

nostress,

grangemouth 13/09/2009 20:32:40
A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "Scottish ministers have no plans to charge cyclists for using the roads in Scotland."

So the article is a complete fabrication as is becoming all too common with this rag. But it certainly attracts the unionist loonies to post their anti-Scottish crud, so as far as this rag is concerned it's a result!
331

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:35:21
Conan the Librarian™ #329

Agreed.
332

,

13/09/2009 20:35:34
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333

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:38:03
brownlie # 331

I thought MFI was defunct:MI5 is not...
334

,

13/09/2009 20:38:20
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335

brownlie,

13/09/2009 20:39:30
335 Donkey

Are you sure?
336

,

13/09/2009 20:40:40
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337

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:41:12
Spookums 86 # 334

You posted it, maybe you should try and withdraw it before the Americans get wind of it and wheech you of some place warm. Oh, too late!
You know it is a truism that most criminals talk themselves into jail, you have also posted your intentions on the internet. Congrats...
338

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:42:24
brownlie # 337

If it is important to you, tell me.
339

brownlie,

13/09/2009 20:44:56
340 Donkey

On yer bike, Pete!! (Geddit?)
340

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 20:57:12
brownlie # 341

That was a scream, got anymore like it?

You should advise your pal "Spookums" not to go to the US anytime soon. The US intelligence services monitor all types of traffic for words like "claymore." The said "Spookums" MIGHT have made his comment in jest, but, the US security bods are notoriously lacking in humour and MIGHT just stick "Spookums" in the proverbial "changing room," for as long as it suits them and to teach him respect for people that know better. We can only hope!
341

Donkey Hote,

13/09/2009 21:01:55


Hey Spookums, I know a guy that was arrested at JFK by the FBI for repossessing a US registered aircraft that belonged to him.
The fact that you have actively stated on the internet that you want to buy "claymores" has been noted. You will not know that there is a warrant for you until you land in the US. Roll the dice...
342

krusty the klown,

13/09/2009 21:11:16
Dear advertisers,
I understand that many of you are losing interest in our hard copy media, however, we have recently recruited a number of highly imaginative work experience pupils who now write stories that are guaranteed to drive responses up on our web based media - in fact, you would be suprised as to how many are taken in and forced to comment!
Yours faithfully,
The hootsmon
343

Brianwci,

13/09/2009 21:25:39
Government in TALKS over Tax on Cyclists.

And I'm sure that's where it will remain: TALKS

All possibilities have to be discussed, but that doesn't mean they have to be implemented and I've no doubt this one won't be.
344

Urinal Gum,

Oregon 13/09/2009 21:53:29
Let's try a little experiment here. First, tape your lips to the tailpipe of an automobile while it is running. Next, get up close to a bicycle while it is moving. Which one seems to be worse for the air? Wouldn't we want to encourage the use of the form of transportation that is better for our health? QED: the bike tax is dumb.

/bikes 100 miles per week commuting
//actually pays attention to what is going on around him will commuting
///http://www.urinalgum.com/?p=226
345

,

13/09/2009 21:58:00
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346

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/09/2009 22:17:58
#347 Spookums 86

When I first glanced at your post, I thought it was addressed to someone called "Donkey-Hole Pete" and wondered if I needed specs.

On scrolling up to #343...I realised that I have the second sight.
347

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/09/2009 22:31:40
#346 Urinal Gum,

It's bad enough having to buy bikes for your kids every now and then, not to mention all that puncture fixing and maintaining them in a reasonable standard of road-worthiness.

When I was a kid, you swiped bits of bike from the town dump, put Frankenstein machines together, fixed your own punctures and didn't bother overmuch about whether the brakes worked or not.

Now some penpusher wants to tax the things, for them to lie around in the back yard, getting rusty for most of the time.
348

,

13/09/2009 22:37:37
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349

Helmut B.,

Germany 13/09/2009 22:50:35
@ 15 Hairdrier

Why just on breathing?

On eating!
On drinking!
On walking!
On sweating!
On sleeping!
On falling asleep!
On waking up!
On looking!
On listening!
On feeling hot and cold!
On laughing, yes! on laughing!
On hearing!
On seeing!
On peeing!
On being!
350

livilion,

livingston 13/09/2009 23:04:06
#308 Spookums 86,

The SNP with this much London-centric propaganda against them are expected to pick up 25 Westminster seat at the coming general election!

With a fair wind behind them and some active SNP campaigning on the self determination theme, 30 seat scenario might not be outwith the bounds of speculation, what then, would Salmond's party need to go to a Holyrood referendum to begin negotiating the end of the Treaty of Union?

Tony Blair won 41 out of 59 Scots seats in 2005 with only 24% of the Scottish mandate.(39% of a 60% t.o.)

Finance Secretary John Swinney On the BBC Politics Scotland Show: 'any plans to tax cylcists as reported in the SoS?'
Swinney:'No'.
351

livilion,

livingston 13/09/2009 23:08:39
Does the government have any plans to tax the use of spell checkers?
352

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

13/09/2009 23:35:57
352 livilion,

"There is no such thing, as an independent press.

You know it and I know it, There is not one of us who dares to write our honest opinions, and if we did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print.

I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with, others are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job.

If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of SoS, before twenty-four hours my job would be gone.

The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and everyone in it for his daily bread.

You know it and I know it, we are the tools and vassals of the rich men behind the scenes, we are the puppets, they pull the strings and we dance, our talents, our prospects and our lives are all the property of other men.

We are intellectual prostitutes."

John Swin*** told me that Peterkin said that to him in the Burke and Hare one afternoon when he had more than the usual amount of alcohol in him...he recorded it on his Dictaphone.

353

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 14/09/2009 00:06:00
There's no fool like a foolish old Unionist!

The document actually comes from COSLA, AKA Old Labour an Liberal Systrans. If it were ever implemented it would mean Cycling equivalent of the M8 between Glasgow and Edinburgh. Why is this rag peddling (SORRY!) lies designed to make people hate the Pro-Scottish Government?

Do they too have something to lose from Democracy being visited upon the Kingdom? FFS sell the paper.
354

Vlad Tepes,

Targoviste 14/09/2009 10:51:02
Silly story- extorting cyclists would be both unjust and unworkable as this consultation will quickly conclude. Half would go back to cars causing gridlock and the other half would refuse to pay (quite rightly as bikes are correctly rated zero excise because they are carbon-neutral and don't damage roads).
More appropriate would be to levy the required amount by raising charges for motor vehicles discouraging needless driving and taking pressure off the roads and bridges.
355

Tim C,

Southern England 14/09/2009 11:10:59
Portugal used to have licence plates for cyclists, when the country was really poor twenty eight years ago. Don't forget that poor people, peace demonstrators, anti nuclear 'greens', and vegetarians etc often use bikes. Whereas Government people have cars. So cyclists are a potential threat.
356

Scotfree2,

Glasgow 14/09/2009 11:59:19
I think that road tax for cyclists is a joke for all of the reasons given above, however, I do think that it is about time that cyclists carry compulsory insurance to use the roads, children under 12 being exempt. I cannot remember how many accidents, mostly minor I must admit, I have witnessed between cyclists and pedestrians and other road users where the cyclist just shrugs and cycles on his/her way.

Also can we have some concerted action on behalf of the police to stop the practice of cyclists cycling on the pavement a speed when they feel that the road is too busy for them.
357

Brad,

Glasgow 14/09/2009 13:45:50
Wow. 358 (no, 359) comments on a non-story. I feel like I'm part of something big.

Just to keep things going, #358, I have to say - as someone who cycles a lot - I've only seen one of the accidents you describe. I do have to keep an eye out for pedestrians who step into the road (or marked cycleways) without looking though. Perhaps they should have to take out insurance? They're a danger to innocent cyclists...
358

Cyberman Thetory,

Berkshire 14/09/2009 14:30:15
Have you ever seen somebody lick the chutney spoon in an Indian Restaurant and put it back? This would never have happened under the Tories.
359

Brad,

Glasgow 14/09/2009 18:08:37
Put it back where, #360?
360

langtonian,

uphall 14/09/2009 18:55:44
John Swinney, being a keen cyclist himself must have thought long and hard before exposing himself to the given commentts he must have known would be his to receive.

However desperate times reqire desperate diversionary tactics in an attempt to draw the sting from his real time problem ie-Holyrood budgetry subject matter,s.

That it was perceived to be a difficulty of some magnitude to get the last one passsed.

This weeks one will i suspect be the father and mother of all battles to enable any prgress of cosequence.

It has for sure been a devastingly bad last few weeks for the SNP .

There are no signs of any immediate solace,no where to run to, it could be next to terminal for SNP

361

The new waspy,

Oxfordshire 14/09/2009 21:04:13
#360/361
Berkshire born Berkshire bread
Thick in the arm and thick in the head
362

The new waspy,

14/09/2009 21:04:39
or bred
363

MC-B Fife,

Cupar 15/09/2009 17:03:11
If they tax those of us who use cyles regularly then we will demand proper cycle lanes empty of parked cars such as those in Holland.
The cost of collecting and enforcing the tax would greatly outweigh any tax yield.
M C-B
364

Porry,

The Continent 17/09/2009 21:06:10
#351 - Sorry, Helmut, but there is a more systematic approach to taxation. You are not taxed for performing the act as such, it depends on where you do it. There is no duty on peeing at home, e.g. However, here is the government's chance, if you pee in the street there will probably be a pee tax in the future. Other ideas would be:

Pedestrian tax, since you use the pavement (sidewalk for our American friends),

kilt tax, since there is no underwear under the kilt which could filter gases polluting public air space,

wino tax to be paid by those who are found drunk in the streets,

to mention just three examples creative civil servants could think up.
365

Budgie,

INCHINNAN 20/09/2009 00:30:05
First tax the cycles, then introduce MOT tests. Should be a real money spinner. Whoever thought up this preposterous idea should be named and shamed.

 

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