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The by-election that could bring down Brown



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Published Date: 30 June 2008
GORDON Brown was last night warned that his premiership was unlikely to survive the loss of the Glasgow East by-election so soon after the resignation of Wendy Alexander, the Scottish Labour leader.
Already under pressure over deserting party donors and a humiliating fifth place behind the British National Party in last week's Henley by-election, Mr Brown had to cope with the loss of Ms Alexander – an ally and supporter – who quit as leader of
the Labour group in the Scottish Parliament over the weekend.

Many in the Labour Party now believe victory for the Nationalists in Glasgow East – one of the safest Labour seats in the UK – could force Mr Brown out of 10 Downing Street.

One senior Labour source at Westminster said last night that he believed the Prime Minister would have to go if Labour failed to hold on to a safe seat in the East End of Glasgow. The vote could be held as early as 24 July.

"If we lost, it would be a disaster. I think we will hold on but if we didn't, he (Mr Brown] would resign," the source said.

John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University, said it would be "devastatingly bad news" for Mr Brown if the SNP won the Glasgow East by- election.

He said: "Gordon Brown's position is not very secure and it is perhaps crossing the minds of some of his colleagues that they might have to say to him, 'Look you can't necessarily carry on'.

"He does need to shore up his position; I don't think he can withstand another unexpected crisis. That might just bring him down."

SNP leaders believe the Glasgow by-election – triggered by the resignation of MP David Marshall for health reasons – is within their grasp given the turmoil in the Scottish Labour Party following Ms Alexander's resignation.



Alex Salmond, the SNP leader, said his party would give the by-election "the biggest possible go we can" and warned the Prime Minister's future was now out of Labour's hands and would be decided, at least in part, by the verdict of the people of Glasgow East.

The SNP would need a 22 per cent swing from Labour to take the seat. They have achieved big swings in two previous Glasgow by-elections – in Govan in 1973 and 1988 – and believe they can do so again.

The SNP stepped up the pressure as Labour managers in Scotland tried to find some way of managing the fallout from Ms Alexander's sudden resignation on Saturday.

Senior officials were keen to play down the prospect of a "bloodbath", insisting that the main contenders for the leadership got on well and, although there were policy differences between them, they were united in their desire to return the party to power in Scotland.

Jack McConnell, the former Labour first minister, yesterday said it was vital there was a leadership contest, with no interference from Mr Brown or the London Labour leadership.

He said: "One key factor here is that the party members in Scotland make a choice without any influence, either from me, for example, who has been in the position (of Scottish leader] in the past, or from senior figures in the party leadership from elsewhere."

Henry McLeish, another former Labour first minister, said he hoped the leadership election would take place as soon as possible, in order to allow the winning candidate to be in place in time for the new parliamentary session at the start of September.

Cathy Jamieson, Scottish Labour's deputy leader, who will take over from Ms Alexander until the leadership election later this summer, yesterday said she was "actively considering" entering the contest.

Ms Jamieson is likely to be joined in the race by Iain Gray, the former enterprise minister, Andy Kerr, the former health minister, and possibly Margaret Curran, the former communities minister. Bill Butler, a back-bencher, may stand for the Left, if he can win the support of enough MSPs. There may also be a deputy leadership contest, with MSPs Rhona Brankin, Tom McCabe and Pauline McNeill possible contenders

Although sources close to Mr Gray made it clear he would stand, none of the potential candidates are expected to declare their intentions publicly until party managers decide on a timetable for the contest later this week.

That timetable is likely to come too late for the Glasgow East by-election.



Mr Salmond said yesterday that the Nationalists believed the situation was now so bad for Labour that they could take the seat from them.

He said: "If there is a by-election declared next week, then we will give it the biggest possible go we can.

"In the current atmosphere in Scottish politics, things become possible which hitherto would have been thought to be impossible."

Mr Salmond said the SNP would fight the by-election on a range of national issues, such as the pressure on family budgets and the cost of fuel.

And he suggested the by-election could signal the end for the Prime Minister, if it went against Labour.

He said: "The question (of Mr Brown's future] is ultimately in the hands of the people, not in the hands of the Labour Party. The imminent electoral test in Scotland will surely provide another indication of where the wind's blowing."

Privately, Labour sources predict the by-election will be similar to the contest in the Hamilton South seat in 1999, where the SNP reduced a 16,000 Labour majority to just 500.

Meanwhile, the Prime Minister suffered a further blow yesterday when a former party donor warned Labour was doomed to failure under his leadership.

Business guru Sir Gerry Robinson said Mr Brown appeared incapable of leading and had left the party in "probably an impossible position to come back from".

And there was further bad news when other backers stated publicly that they would not continue to fund the party, a development which could become critical for Labour in the next few weeks as it has to pay back £7.4 million of loans on 1 July.

There has been speculation at Westminster that Mr Marshall stood down partly over concerns about employing members of his family.

Mr Marshall has employed his wife and daughter, Christina – who was caught up in both the so-called "lobbygate" and "Wishawgate" controversies involving Jack McConnell between 1999 and 2004, when she worked as his constituency secretary.

However, Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, yesterday insisted that Mr Marshall stood down due to health reasons.

He said: "People will speculate about all these things but the fact is this man's health is such that he cannot continue to do his job. I do not believe there is any evidence to suggest that there is any other reason."

Alan Johnson, the UK Health Secretary, rallied supporters behind Mr Brown yesterday, insisting that "in terms of what he is achieving, in very difficult circumstances, it has been a good year" for the Prime Minister and that voters would back him.



Last night, a Downing Street spokesman refused to comment on whether Mr Brown would resign if Labour lost the Glasgow East by-election.

Process of finding new leader may take months

Who will oversee the leadership election?

The Procedures Committee of the Scottish Executive Committee. It is comprised of the Scottish General Secretary Colin Smyth (who is the Procedures Secretary), plus the chair, vice-chair and treasurer of the SEC.

When does the election start?

On the day that the Procedures Committee meet to agree the timetable. The Procedures Committee will meet later this week, probably on Friday.

Who can stand?

Any Labour MSP can nominate themselves or be nominated by other MSPs. Nominees are required to have the support of 12.5 per cent of Labour MSPs. There are 46 MSPs so the threshold required is six.

Will there be hustings?

Yes. All candidates will be expected to attend a series of hustings around Scotland.

What if there is just one nominee?

If there is just one nominee a joint meeting of the SEC and the Labour MSP group will be held to confirm that nominee as the new leader.

If there is more than one candidate, how will the ballot work?

All candidates who receive a sufficient number of nominations from Labour MSPs will go forward to a one-member, one-vote postal ballot. There are three sections entitled to vote in the ballot: elected representatives (MSPs, MPs and MEPs), Scottish Labour Party members and members of trade unions affiliated to the Labour Party in Scotland.

What happens then?

The votes from each section will be counted and treated as an electoral college. Each section will be weighted equally to count for one third of the total vote.

When will the new leader be in post?

The exact timetable will be agreed by the Procedures Committee shortly, but the several stages are likely to take a number of months. Henry McLeish said yesterday he wanted the new leader to be in place by the start of the new parliamentary session in September, but that is unlikely if there is a proper contest.

Rebellion on twin tax plans likely

A DOUBLE rebellion over the 10p tax and retrospective changes to vehicle excise duty will cause fresh headaches for the government this week.

MPs are demanding Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, does more to compensate the 1.1 million lowest income households that will miss out after the government tried to mitigate the impact of scrapping the 10p tax band.

David Taylor, Labour MP for Leicestershire North West, is behind a move that would give an average of £60 to the losers, with a cap of £120. This would cost £66 million overall.

In amendments to the Finance Bill, MPs have also called for the Chancellor to think again about making higher road taxes for the most polluting cars retrospective.

They argue that applying the tax for cars bought between 2001 and 2006 will disproportionately affect poorer households.

The Conservatives tabled the amendment but 40 Labour MPs have also signed a motion opposing the plan and could join ranks with the Tories to scupper the tax.

Critics say the hike will cost one million motorists an increase of £200 each.

Gordon Brown is believed to have ordered Mr Darling to drop the tax in his Pre-Budget Report this autumn.







The full article contains 1736 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 00:05:32
Oh please let Labour lose this, and hopefully this will be the last we'll see of these wasteful, incompetent, lying, sleazy half wits for a generation.
2

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 00:09:12
Hmmm, sorry to rub salt into the wound Mr Broon.

The latest analysis of recent opinion polls shows the SNP with a 6 point lead over Labour for the Westminster general election with SNP support up 16 points on the 2005 election – virtually doubled.

The study based on the ten UK opinion polls conducted in May and June following the first anniversary of the SNP Government gives the following ratings (change from 2005 election in brackets):
SNP: 34% (+16%), Lab: 28% (-12%), Tory: 21% (+5%), LibDem: 12% (-10%), Other: 5% (1%)

SNP Westminster leader Mr Angus Robertson MP welcomed the new analysis;

"With more and more opinion polls putting the SNP ahead even for a Westminster election, it is clear that Labour is in desperate trouble north and south of the Border.

3

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 00:09:56
I like Mr Broon but not as a PM..
4

Ken_Fitlike,

30/06/2008 00:16:13

Are we assuming that there will be a general election if Brown steps down.

Labour couldn't have a second Primeminister without a mandate.

5

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 00:16:59
Evening Spook.
Just "how" do you like Gordon?
His manly eye?




;-)
6

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 00:18:44
#5 Conan the Librarian™

Naws conan, i love his big bottom dropping jaw, its cool.
7

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 00:23:00
6
Ah, his big bottom.

Dropping jaw?
8

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 00:29:01
7
Where is your friend, Sophie Cleese?

9

subrosa,

30/06/2008 00:29:23
#5 and #6

Tut tut boys! Mocking the PM's afflictions isn't going to win the by-election. Anyway I detect a bit of jealousy there spook :)

It will be a hard fight this one. Labour will employ every dirty trick in the book. Some say a good turnout will be bad for the SNP others the opposite. Also there's word Tommy Sheridan is to make a comeback.

Oh the intrigue!
10

Richardinho,

30/06/2008 00:33:11
Despite all the hype to the contrary, the 10p tax rate has not been reinstated. That means the majority of people's taxes in this constituency have still been doubled. Lets hope people wake up and give the labour party a real kicking over this.
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 00:44:16

Funny, I was going to comment on his 'Looks', but thought,..'NO'!

But since you lot brought it up, YES, a worried, sunken, wrinkled face!

Was it all Worth it!

Long Time Dead!

Wher as I,just go on 'Loving' the,..'Fruits of Life',..

As in my 'DYW'! :D

(see happy laughing face, for me)
12

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 00:46:30
13
Lupus in fabula ;-)
13

Silence of the Yams,

30/06/2008 00:46:34
I doubt he will resign, altho I expect the SNP will win this Jim Sillars style.
14

What happens when the oil runs out?,

30/06/2008 00:53:22
The Labour Party values you call.

Please hold.

If you require Panis et Circenses, sorry but we're completely out at the moment.
15

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 00:57:11
#8 lol..cheeky...

#11..subrosa..Jealousy ?? what ever do you mean..lol..
I agree it will be a tough battle and Labour will use every trick in the book.

This by-election is the penultimate test for Mr Broon and if Labour fails then he will fail as PM. This is a historical by-election because never have we had to Governments in the UK fighting at opposite sides over a by-election. This will be a bi-election of titanic and biblical proportions.

Whats at stake, The credibility of the Scottish government V the credibility of the UK government, cant wait...bring it on...
16

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 00:58:37
17
Libertas inaestimabilis res est.

Are you out of that?
17

Richardinho,

30/06/2008 01:02:09
I don't think this is one that we (the SNP) really need to win. Yes, it would be fun, but it's probably not worth a huge amount of resources it would probably take.

But taking off my SNP hat for a second, I want to inflict a huge kicking on the Labour party for the abolition of the 10p rate-One of the most disgraceful acts ever perpetuated on the working people of this country by the so called 'labour' party.
18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:04:38

~20,

Conan, t? e?ste µ???? s?µe?a t? p???; e??a? ? µ???s? se ??????,?
19

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 01:05:08
#21 Richardinho

I think if the SNP take the seat it will further endorse the SNP as an affective government and i know you support Celtic so how about Celtic park being in an SNP constituency ?? Hail Hail...
20

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:06:27

OH Well, this web site dont understand Greek!

Forget the post Conan!
21

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 01:06:33
#22

Yes i have tried posting Arabic and Hebrew on here and all you get is a load of ?????>???????? ..?
22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:08:47

Quote of Wisdom,

"We know that where there is no contention, there is neither defeat nor victory. The supple willow does not contend against the storm, yet it survives."
23

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:12:05
The Spook in Leith ~26,

This new'ish website is not a patch on the old trusted brilliant site, that was made deceased!

It 'Total' Rubbish! compared to the last one!
24

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:13:24

Better post in 'Spanish', since they won the cup!
25

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:15:13

Viva la Revolución!
26

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:15:40

:DD
27

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 01:16:09
#29

Agreed and it is also a pain that you cant link the numbers anymore from previous posts and you cant click on the links but have to cut n paste the links into your browser..not good enough..
28

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 01:16:54
22

Were you trying to post Homer Charles?

Do'h.
29

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 01:17:13
#29

asta la ma bedtime amigo ..good night..
30

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:17:36

(#27)

Be a "Willow", be 'Charles Linskaill'! :))
31

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:19:43

Conan ~33,

NO I was not trying to post "Homer", it was a question for you!
32

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 01:25:11
I would like to answer Charles.
But a lot of question marks, doth not a question make.
33

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 01:27:12
#37

Firstly I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the additional advertisements that you placed re. the automobile..etc etc..lol very cheeky..im going to my kip..night night..lol
34

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 01:30:42
#37

Hey my last post, I wish the person who posts as candy man would pack it in coz fun is fun but he/she/it ? is going to far..anyway kip time..x
35

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 01:32:34
Charles, there are too many @rseholes pretending to be other posters on the nicht.

Goodnight.
36

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 01:35:52
Conan ~41,

Agree.

My related post @22,=

Conan, la cuestión es, ¿está usted tratando de educar a otros esta mañana, con sus entradas?
37

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 30/06/2008 01:37:38
The SNP will take this seat and will trigger a vote of NO CONFIDENCE IN BROWN, a general Election for Westminster will ensue and the SNP will win the Majority of MP's in SCOTLAND allowing them to claim a mandate on INDEPENDENCE without even holding a referendum. Any Bet's anyone!!!!
38

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 01:40:55
#40

Sorry i get you now....silly spook, im a bit slow, to much booze tonight, lol night night ...
39

ThomasP,

30/06/2008 02:03:58
44 Scotindy,Los Angeles

A Unionist Party (Can't rmember which) said if half of Scotlands MP's were Nats then Scotland would become Independent
40

bring them on,

30/06/2008 02:25:26
#27

Charles

A gem!
41

fifeis great,

Kirkcaldy 30/06/2008 02:56:41
Love all the posts,gnats are great,even no knickers nicola and fat two pays eck,eck and his bike!smarmy eck and sour chops nic,great fun this, like being back at primary school being a gnat.
42

bring them on,

30/06/2008 03:35:06
Brown was desperate to become PM.

Now he is just desperate.

43

fifeis great,

Kirkcaldy 30/06/2008 04:34:56
Brown is bad enough, could be worse he could be Fat boab!(alias fat eck).
44

Sod off labour!,

edinburgh 30/06/2008 06:02:23
It is 6 am and I have just looked at all the posts and don't get half of them.....but it is the start of the summer hols.......so that's something.... poor wee wendy, only her pension to keep her warm? Did anyone read J. Warner in Scotland on Sunday yesterday? Good article and the usual sarcasm...But the Brown acolyte seems to have lost the plot. He was saying that there was too much personal attacks on Pa Broon........ Must go for my breakfast now cheerio for the noo!
45

Ubi,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 06:09:54
Go for it, Cathy.
46

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 30/06/2008 06:29:08
Glasgow East will be an Everest for the Scottish National Party to conquer. But in Salmond and Sturgeon, the SNP has its Hillary and Tenzing. They're clamping on the crampons this very morning - to secure Scotland a place at the summit. There the Saltire will flutter in the breeze of victory , as will the hearts of a proud and grateful nation.
47

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 30/06/2008 06:47:19
If SNP is on a roll, then it's mainly because the pathetic alternatives remain pathetic. SNP really has nothing to offer since 'independence' will surely prove to be a toom tabard. Unionism is not the answer either, of course.
48

iang,

30/06/2008 07:16:56
#47

There used to be a rule that stated that if 75% of Scottish MPs elected supported an Independence referendum then Westminster was obliged to allow it. George Robertson famously admitted on the eve of the '97 election (I think), which cost him his job, under the Labour supported devolution agreement that that would no longer be the case. No matter who voted for whom in Scotland it would be Westminster that decided if Scotland gets a referendum.
49

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 30/06/2008 07:28:45
Brown is dead in the water, resurrection anyone? Do the wasteful Labour run councils do them yet?
50

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 30/06/2008 07:43:15
Says it all for me that Broon - the PM (at the moment :-) ) is being told to keep his nose out of the new Liebore "leadership" election in Scotland.

A dead loss of a party...how can ANYONE continue voting for them? It's beyond me.

Alexander's successor will be just as rank.
51

Mist001,

Marseille 30/06/2008 07:50:21
I think it's great for Scottish independence. My view is that people look for political stability which obviously Labour doesn't have at the moment.

Big 'Eck is keeping very calm and is being quite rational and projecting the quality of stability. He's not coming out gloating or bragging and I think these attributes will appeal to voters and they'll get the seat.

Michael.
52

McMadman,

http://scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com 30/06/2008 07:51:59
#23 spook

As a celtic supporter I'd be delighted to see paradise in an SNP constituency. As would many others of us.
53

McMadman,

http://scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com 30/06/2008 08:01:15
#55 Rules

Federation certainly isn't the answer, as the overwhelming lack of support for your position on this has shown time and again.

Whilst it might be accurate to say that the dearth of opposition to the SNP is helping their popularity somewhat, that is by no means the full explanation for recent growth in their support and to suggest otherwise is a little insulting to the electorate. As many tories, greens, libs and labs might argue; they claim it is the distracting debate on independence that is masking their true popularity. Time will tell.

But on what basis will "independence be surely a toom tabard ?" Plenty of states have acheived independence and gone on to be successful ? It is no given that independence would be a failure (self determination for a nation state is surely better than subjugating oneselves politically which is the effect - intentionally or not - of the current union).

It is certainly not a given that Unionism has been a roaring success, and as for federalism - well, see my comments above. And don't go on about belgium; that was a federation created by treaty as opposed to choice of the people (was Holland too ? can't remember tbh).
54

CondoleezzaCousCous,

30/06/2008 08:01:38
21 "One of the most disgraceful acts ever perpetuated..." Is that Greek, too, Richy?

Stick to football, old bean, stick to the footie.
55

CondoleezzaCousCous,

30/06/2008 08:04:43
23 "..endorse the SNP as an affective government.."
More Greek?

Stick to the footie, Spooky.
56

Big Red,

Aberdeen 30/06/2008 08:18:23

On average men in Glasgow East die at 63 years of age....possibly the lowest age in the developed western world.
50% of constituents are at least 2nd generation unemployed.

As said on the politics show yesterday, it it truly the area that time forgot.

As a supposedly developed country in the 21st century, these statistics are equally shocking and appalling.

And yet the people there continue to vote for the party of underachievement and over-dependancy.

Why ???

Kick Labour out, this is your chance.

57

NickT,

Glasgow 30/06/2008 08:22:49
Cathy Jamieson is "actively considering" standing. Can you inactively consider standing? The slapdash phraseology from a "professional communicator", the stark mental slackness, tells you everything you need to know about the mediocre nonentities of Scottish Labour. The Scottish Labour powerplayers are in London and the Cathy Jamiesons are discovering that the brain drain is no springboard into government.
58

Edward,

30/06/2008 08:30:47
Jack McConnell is still to resign and by election for his Loyrood seat, when is that happening?
Or is he hoping that we will all forget about it?
He is due to go to Malawi to replace the High Commissioner who is leaving there in February 2009. Jack in reality should be there about 3 months beforehand to learn the ropes!
Also due to happen the expected resignation of Glenrothes MP John MacDougall is also leaving Parliament due to health reasons. He stated as much last year when the expected General Election in October was due, but then didnt happen. His health hasnt got any better apparently
59

eric,

lothian 30/06/2008 08:38:04
A little bit more funding for the Glasgow Subway expansion into east end should do the trick!
60

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 30/06/2008 08:39:31
#61 Macmadman.

You are right that federalist ideas haven't set the heather alight(yet). However, neither have independence nor unionism! Give federalism time to be understood and sink in. These things take time.

Independence is a toom tabard in as much as it offers no guarantees of the better Scotland that the SNP proffers. More small independent nations are doing worse than are doing better. The opposite is true of federations where these came into being, and remain so, voluntarily.

We should only try independence once federation has been tried and shown to fail.

61

Anglofile,

30/06/2008 08:40:44
Gordon Brown, Gordon Brown,
with his pants hanging further down!!!!
62

Edward,

30/06/2008 08:40:50
Correction to #67
John MacDougall MP is recovering well and is expected back at Parliament after the summer and is seeking renomination, apparently.
http://tinyurl.com/5owu3u
according to the Courier article 'John MacDougall is continuing to recuperate well after having a lung removed in his fight against asbestosis.'
Wish him well for a speedy recovery
63

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 30/06/2008 08:47:24
Labour are a joke but the Nats aren't far behind, they have no visio to offer Scotland just backward looking xenophobia... of course certain parts of Glasgow have plenty of that so maybe it will work out for them.
64

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 30/06/2008 08:49:07
Alan Johnson - "a good year" for Brown!? You just can't make that up.

It's time the whole rat-pack was off. Cathy Jamieson for PM - might as well given the other choices as Broon undoubtedly slithers off. On the other hand his ability to "listen and learn" doesn't extend to our assessment of his performance and he seems so narcissistic that he'll have to be dragged out of no. 10 shouting "it WAS my turn, it WAS...".

On the replacement for Wendy, maybe Broon anointing a successor would save the unseemly mess that's about to happen as the unwashed in "ex team Wendy" go about their internecine warfare. Not a pretty sight.
65

Toast,

30/06/2008 08:50:17
At what point will labour be declared financially bankrupt,they are £22 million in dept and must pay back over £7 million in loans tomorrow followed by another £6 million by Dec 31st also a large percentage of their large donors have distanced themselves from the party.
66

James.com,

30/06/2008 09:04:10
The SNP will win but Brown won't resign or stand for Election. After losing to the BNP in the last by-election he said "By-elections come and by-elections go. Of course we have to listen to what people say BUT......"
67

bluehead,

edinburgh 30/06/2008 09:07:51
of course they will lose,but it won't help this country it is to late now.
this country has been diseased to such a extent it will be impossible to repair.
this goverment finished of the job Hitler tried to do to this country,so all that the men,women and children who died in the last war,died for nothing.
68

Yeti,

30/06/2008 09:19:36
The Times on Wendy:

"With her diminutive stature, breathless energy and rapid-fire speech, she has been compared to a gerbil on amphetamines"
69

radge dug,

30/06/2008 09:27:57
#78 never thought id laugh at a Times comment.

More Wendy characters?
a hamster on acid?
70

Tim C,

Southern England 30/06/2008 09:28:47
Labour can not lose, like Mugababe; the government all have pensions and/or second homes paid for by the taxpayer. And turkeys do not vote for Christmas, so why would the poor of Glasgow want to risk any form of change in their future benefits?

71

donald,

glasgow 30/06/2008 09:32:31
Bring doon Broon. Bring it on!)
72

European Scot,

30/06/2008 09:38:18
69 Rulesbutnotrulers

"Independence is a toom tabard in as much as it offers no guarantees of the better Scotland that the SNP proffers. More small independent nations are doing worse than are doing better."

So perhaps would you care to illustrate this comment with a couple of "Independent small Nations doing worse" in Europe, which is where Scotland is, geographically speaking of course.
Politically, only Independence will actually get us into Europe as a Nation, and into the United Nations as well.
Unfortunately your Federal solution won't achieve either of these things.
73

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 30/06/2008 09:42:02
If Team Sheridan rocks up it would be a concern to both Labour and SNP as he has the oratory to take a lot of votes from them both.

According to Gorgeous George, when Wendy worked for him she was given a mobile phone and asked, "where do you put the money in."

The Labour gene pool is very stagnant.

ALBA GU BRATH.
74

Adam Birnie,

Peterborough 30/06/2008 09:53:57
Good luck to the SNP from everyone in England
75

,

30/06/2008 09:54:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

danielrober,

30/06/2008 10:05:27
The Punch and Judy fight between the SNP and a few Labour guys are threatening a century of struggle.


There have been five national disaster to affect the UK and Scotland over the last century. WW I, the Great Depression, WW II, Post war-imperial decline, the Energy Crisis. Each time we have in one way or another been attacked either physically or economically. Each time we have tightened the belts and put our noises to the grindstone. Why? We because people we were thrown over the cliff, because they tried to do the right thing.

WW I France and Belgium were invaded and they needed our help. Over 2,000,000 Brits alone died, what a slaughter. So we rebuilt the country, to be better and fairer than it was before.

The Great Depression. The world needed help to recover it did not come, with resulting disaster but we did recover just in time to rearm for WW II.

WW II. Who needs to say about this, historic battle against good and evil.

Post war-imperial decline. We learnt from the lessons of the Great Depression and WWI this time and tightened our belts still rationing in the 1950’s.

The Energy Crisis. The economy built for the wars crashed, whilst we still had massive military commitments which some countries kept up. Luckily Groby came out of the Soviet Union setting us all straight (Phew).


Then we rebuilt and that has taken 20 years. We now have another war were we are backing up our allies. Its called paying a debt and whilst its hard economically I’m not getting shot at in a war zone and niether are the politicians. We can have a decent economy waiting for these guys when they get back home and I do mean homes for hero’s.

But the Punch and Judy fight between the SNP and a few Labour guys (lets be honest all mates) are threatening a century of struggle. Now some politicians are going to break up the country during a war, during an economic crisis, during an energy crisis, during and time when we need to upgrade.

We are
77

danielrober,

30/06/2008 10:06:24
# 87 cont

We are all been threatened with been thrown of the cliff again, if they can not have MORE CAKE. Well jump politico - I won’t save you.

78

danielrober,

30/06/2008 10:11:59
THE FEDERAL SOLUTION IS A COMPROMISE.

Compromise is how adults and normal people live everyday. I can't afford a holiday this year so I will save, compromise today so we can go on a holiday later. As opposed to the current trend of "don't worry honey we'll put it on a credit card then blame someone else later".

The lack of consideration of a federal solution is just plain laziness by people use to been bailed out of hard choices.
79

morris,

edinburgh 30/06/2008 10:22:41
12
Whilst Previous versions of the Glasgow Govan seat should be a lesson to us all,(ie nothing is impossible)an SNP gain here would still be a sensational result above all others, and would destroy LABOUR's credibility completely,and its pretty shambolic as it is.Even if the SNP go within a 5k majority, Id say its curtains for the UK.
For the record I expect the SNP to go closer than that!
The curtains just need drawing!
We live in interesting times indeed.
I couldn't help thinking earlier when I read"Labour will pull every dirty trick in the book"does this mean they still have some which they have not used yet? This party should be ashamed of themselves.They are the political equivalent of a Charlatan as far as Scotland is concerned,and anyone who identifies with them now should hang their head in shame.
80

danbob,

England 30/06/2008 10:23:58
Come on Glasgow east vote SNP. Get rid of this slime ball. And then when you have, hold a referendum on independence then we can all get rid of the uncertainty and move on in different directions if need be.
81

brownlie,

30/06/2008 10:30:07
87 daniel

Have you any idea how many "homes for heroes" i.e. military houses have been sold to developers in the last ten years?
82

Alan B,

30/06/2008 10:30:43
#Nervous Bear

The way i see it devolution has actually been a forse to clean up and improve our politics.

We have the corruption at Westminster, both through party funding and the kick backs for that funding eg peerages etc. And as u say the nepotism and cronyism at labour council level.

Devolution is a force to publicly change this. We have seen with devolution the falling of 3 party leaders for small level wrongdoing. Something that would never effect Westminster leaders. Brown apparently did exactly the same thing that brought down McLeish.

The media in scotland know that publishing details of msp indiscretions will have an effect and does bring down leaders. Only be removing them for wrongdoing on a regular basis will parties learn than they need to clean up their act.

We can also see it regarding msp expenses. They are much more control than westminster mps but even so the rules are being tightened as they are seen as too lax by the public.

The other advantage of devolution is it allows scotland to vote for parties other than labour. More competition between parties for out votes will force them to improve. By dint of the poor quality of labour they really should be the 4th party of scotland. But the historical poltical position because of westmisnter politics mean they are still a dominant force in scottish politics.
83

Conan the Librarian™,

30/06/2008 10:36:54
84
Meths
Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxiliis, cur, quomodo, quando?
84

Chalmers,

30/06/2008 10:36:59
According to today's Financial Times, a "senior Labour MP" is quoted as saying he hopes the Glasgow voters will do what the Cabinet lacks the guts to do - throw Gordon out:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7ce021e8-4542-11dd-a3c6-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

(note: requires registration to read)
85

morris,

edinburgh 30/06/2008 10:39:45
89
Scotland consists of two schools of thinking.
1) WE want independence
2) We are personally better off as we are.(Status Quo or something close to it)
The so called federal solution is not a solution to anything since it has almost no support!
We cannot impose something which nobody wants and is therefore No 3 on the list when there are more people who oppose it than support it.
It has been considered and rejected as a non runner !END OF DEBATE.
Whether it could work is of academic interest only.

NOBODY WANTS A HALF WAY HOUSE just as Devolution has not satisfied the aspirations of a nation to be like any other and control her own destiny.
It is already being debated what Devolution MK II should look like. Its pretty obvious any tactics which delay the break up mean money for WESTMINSTER.Its equally clear that SCOTLAND benefits from independence and would be foolish to consider anything less.Sorry but reality is cruel place to live for some people.
86

Alan B,

30/06/2008 10:41:51
#danielrober

The problem with a federal solution to the union is neither the tory or labour party are putting it. The lib dems do seem to support a federal solution but have no chance of power at westminster. They also seemed to want a federal solution by regionalising england but england rightly or wrong do not want that, as we have seen by the NE referendum rejection.

Any federal structure will therefore have to be based on the 4 countries that make up the uk. Again part of the problem is labour have devolved different powers to wales, ni and scotland.

Also we also have federal structure now with devolution. It is just not a symetrical federal structure.

The question therefore for scotland is what powers for the scottish parliament. It is up to england to create a parliament for england and/or come up with a solution to the democratic deficit that devolution to scotland and others have left. Remember wales are reviewing the powers for the welsh assembly with a view to increasing the powers inline with the scottish parliament ie have law making powers.

As such the question we in scotland have to review is what powers do we want for the scottish parliament and what powers do we wish to share with the rest of the uk in westminster (if any).

For me the power the scottish parliament needs as a matter of urgency is fiscal autonomy. This would stop the resentment of england towards scotland labelling us subsidy junkies and allow scotland the fiscal freedom to try to rectify out slow economic growth.

The problem i think u need to address is what powers should the uk pull. I support independence largely as i see next to no areas where i think it is better to share powers with the rest of the uk. In some ways that is because the eu has superceded the uk in areas that matter eg currency.
87

Copper,

Falkirk 30/06/2008 10:45:18

Please help me out here

Would this be the McLiesh that stole £38,000

Or the Jack O'Donell that sold the Ferry Building contract to the Poles

Or the Cathy Jamieson who works for the Company that lets Prisoners run away

Being older I get mixed up

Perhaps they could explain why the Slabs and the Lib Dums on Falkirk Council are giving Bo'ness Harbour building ground to a Dutch Finance Company

When this story breaks as it surely will the Labour Party are definately finished as it contains all the basic elements of Labour Sleaze
88

Copper,

Falkirk 30/06/2008 10:45:18

Please help me out here

Would this be the McLiesh that stole £38,000

Or the Jack O'Donell that sold the Ferry Building contract to the Poles

Or the Cathy Jamieson who works for the Company that lets Prisoners run away

Being older I get mixed up

Perhaps they could explain why the Slabs and the Lib Dums on Falkirk Council are giving Bo'ness Harbour building ground to a Dutch Finance Company

When this story breaks as it surely will the Labour Party are definately finished as it contains all the basic elements of Labour Sleaze
89

elizabeth the first ,

30/06/2008 10:46:31
96. Got your rose tinted glasses on again Morris,independence,the answer to all Scotlands woes,what utter rubbish.
90

Alan B,

30/06/2008 10:47:54
#96 morris

I disagree with u regarding federalism being a half way house. A federal structure with parliaments for all 4 nations that make up the uk seems to be the only logical solution if we are to mantain the union. The ultra centralist approach has failed.

The issue more is what advantage would scotland gain from a federal structure and what powers would it be best to share with the other component countries of the uk.

Problem for the union is i cannot see any beyond possibly a defence union. And given scotland seems to have a different attitude to nuclear weapons and wars in general that would have to be a loose union.
91

Alan B,

30/06/2008 10:50:24
#elizabeth the first

Independence might not be "the answer to all Scotlands woes" but it would be a major step in the right direction.
92

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 10:55:42
As i said before, never have we had the situation of 2 Governments fighting each other over a by-election.
Labour will use all the normal prefabricated dross promises to keep hold of this seat but ah ?? The SNP are in power as well, the tables are now even, so now the SNP can really deliver in this seat as a Government.

If the SNP win this seat labour will claim mid term blues blah blah blah but if Labour hold the seat, they will say the people of the east end have spoken against independence and gone for state dependency.

93

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 11:37:24
Good are wee back online now ?
94

The Spook in Leith,

30/06/2008 11:40:06
Its that dam elizabeth, every time she posts the website brakes down