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As bills spiral, Scots are told: 'You've never had it so good'



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Published Date: 01 July 2008
SCOTLAND's most senior UK cabinet minister has come under attack after claiming that Scots have "never had it so good" under more than a decade of Labour rule at Westminster.
Des Browne, the Scottish Secretary, was accused of being "out of touch" with ordinary people at a time of soaring fuel, food and household energy bills.

He had claimed that the level of Westminster's investment in the Scottish Parliament had doubled to £30 billion a year since the late Donald Dewar became First Minister in 1999.

Mr Browne said: "Scotland, in that sense, has never had it so good." He added: "There can be no dispute about it. Scotland gets its share."

The phrase entered political folklore in 1957 when the then Tory Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, claimed the nation was more prosperous than ever and said: "Let us be frank about it – most of our people have never had it so good."

As he outlined the activities of the London-based Scotland Office in the last year, Mr Browne's opponents seized upon his remarks, as evidence that the Government has lost touch with voters.

Last week another Scottish minister, transport minister Tom Harris, was criticised after asking why everyone was "so bloody miserable".

Mr Browne's spokesman stressed that the Scottish Secretary's remarks were focused on the amount of funding Holyrood received for public services.

He said: "Des has never said that hard-working families in Scotland are not feeling the pinch. He is saying that in public spending terms, Scotland has never had it so good, both in terms of the quantum amount of money and the rate of increase."

But David Mundell, the Tory shadow Scottish Secretary, told The Scotsman that Mr Browne's remarks "would appear quite out of touch with the lives of many Scots".

Mr Mundell added: "Whenever we think whether Scotland had it good or not, people take into account far more than the finances under the Barnett formula (which allocates a share of additional UK public expenditure to Scotland].

"They'll take into account the cost of heating, their mortgages and fuel costs. I don't think there will be many people in Scotland who'll think they have never had it so good."

Angus Robertson, the SNP leader at Westminster, said only the UK Treasury had "never had it so good" – by gaining a £6 billion windfall from higher North Sea oil revenues.

He said: "Des Browne's comments underline how desperately out of touch Labour is with real people. Scottish families and businesses are struggling to make ends meet as the cost of food, fuel and energy spiral."

But Ian Davidson, a Labour MP and member of the Scottish Affairs committee that Mr Browne addressed last week, said the government was right to remind voters of its achievements since 1997.

Mr Davidson said: "It's a bit like: 'What have the Romans done for us?' Des's phrase, if it promotes a discussion and analysis of what the financial position is, will be to our good.

"We have tended to some extent to rest on our laurels and not spelled out what we have done. It's quite clear that the Scottish Parliament has never been as well financed as it is now."

But he admitted that not everybody may have noticed the extra investment. "A lot of money went on increased salaries for low-paid NHS staff, which the public as such don't necessarily see," he said. "A lot of it went on renovations and improvements and new buildings, which after a while you take for granted.

"People enjoy that at the time but they won't necessarily see that as something they wake up to in the morning with a song in their heart. So much of the money that has been spent has been on public goods, whereas they're feeling the squeeze in their private finances. The improvement in public services is at one remove."

According to the Scotland Office, funding from Westminster for devolved matters has increased from £12.984 billion in 1998-9 to £30.148 billion by 2010-11.

Separate Holyrood figures show the amount spent per person amounted to £9,751 in Scotland – £1,107 more than the UK average of £8,644.

The differences in spending are biggest in areas such as health, where Scots receive £1,780 per person and transport, where £173 was spent compared with £328 across the UK.

Mr Browne's spokesman insisted: "In public spending terms, there has never been such a fast increase in peacetime."

Analysis: Benefits for public services

WHEN Harold Macmillan, the then Tory Prime Minister, remarked in 1957 that "most of our people have never had it so good", he was referring to the post-war prosperity that was unseen in his lifetime.

Des Browne, the Scottish Secretary, chose to adapt the phrase to explain what he sees as massive and sustained investment in Scotland's public services from the Labour government since 1997.

The devolved administration in Holyrood is in line to receive £30 billion a year by 2010-11 – more than double the figure when the Scottish Parliament began business in 1999.

"There can be no dispute about it," Mr Browne told the Scottish affairs committee. "Scotland always gets its share… Public spending in Scotland has essentially doubled since Donald Dewar was the First Minister. Scotland, in that sense, has never had it so good."

But if that is the case, ask Mr Browne's critics, then why does Scotland not feel like the land of milk and honey? Most Scots will feel themselves detached from the wealth associated with City high-flyers in London. Around towns and cities there remain run-down council estates, parks and public spaces lacking love and attention and many charity shops in deserted town centres.

And what, too, of the general economic downturn that has left motorists, shoppers and homeowners watching the pounds clock up as they pay for weekly essentials?

The answer, say Mr Browne's supporters, is that the record investment has been in public services. Think back to the situation in the mid-1990s for comparison. How many schools and hospitals have been rebuilt or refurbished since then? Hundreds, according to Labour.

Public-sector workers, from hospital cleaners to GPs, have benefited, too, through larger pay packets. Scotland's infrastructure has seen sustained investment over the past decade, but after a while it goes unnoticed. Unlike that last costly visit to the petrol station.

The full article contains 1080 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 June 2008 9:56 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

subrosa,

01/07/2008 00:05:25
What a fool that man is. Doesn't he realise that 13 Scots have been killed in Afgahnistan this month? How can he make comments such as this when east Glasgow has the worst record in Europe for poverty and social problems?

Really I can't believe it, but then again, we knew they'd try the 'tell them rubbish long enough and they'll believe it' tactic.

I'm off to email the fool to express my disgust. I won't hold my breath for a reply.
2

subrosa,

01/07/2008 00:05:32
What a fool that man is. Doesn't he realise that 13 Scots have been killed in Afgahnistan this month? How can he make comments such as this when east Glasgow has the worst record in Europe for poverty and social problems?

Really I can't believe it, but then again, we knew they'd try the 'tell them rubbish long enough and they'll believe it' tactic.

I'm off to email the fool to express my disgust. I won't hold my breath for a reply.
3

,

01/07/2008 00:06:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

,

01/07/2008 00:09:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 00:11:28
Don't forget that we have been receiving our full geographic share of oil revenues for the past 19 years and have spent more than we have earnt since at least 1979 (can't find records before that!).

The SNP and their young nats have been claiming the nasty, nasty UK has been stealing all our oil, trying to get us to hate the union...

...but Salmond's and Swinney's very own GERS proved that they were all lying and that we have been getting our full share all along!

Shame on you, Salmond and your boys. Shame on you.
6

Senga Jean,

01/07/2008 00:14:15
Who is AM2 and why is his car so important. The story is not about him. What?
7

Senga Jean,

01/07/2008 00:16:38
Why is Highland Mighty talking nonsense?. Have I entered a parallel universe where lies become truth?
8

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 00:19:07
8. Do make the effort and read the latest GERS from no other than your beloved Leader.

It's all in there.

Ayrshire Scot (the original one) also very kindly provided the records showing that dreaded subsidy from the rest of the UK to Scotland stretching all the way back to 1989.
9

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 00:23:28
Have any of the nats noticed how much NS oil production has dropped since 1999?

According to the RBS Oil and Gas Index, oil production has fallen about 10% a year from its peak of 2.9m barrels per day, to just 1.2m bpd in January this year.

That's a 60% drop in just nine years.

Does Salmond seriously expect us to rely on this for our future??

(And didn't Salmond Himself help draw up this Index?)
10

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 00:25:58
5 Highland Mighty.

You are an idiot.

When the oil was discovered Scotland seen unemployment sky rocket as our Industries were virtually wiped out.

Scotland never has benefited from our own oil.
11

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 00:27:23
13. Ah, resorting to that good old nat belief that 'abuse is sufficient substitute for the truth'.

Do some research for once.
12

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 00:29:30
13
ThomasP, this is not the real(ly) obnoxious HM, but a fakie who has a serious mental health problem.
Note the "©".
13

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 00:32:10
14
You seem to like it though, it's "healthy", if mis-spelled.
14

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 00:32:49
#5

I know. That is why I said they were an idiot.

Then I decided to mention our own oil reserves paid for the unemployed when the Tories were in power.

Our own oil wealth could of transofrmed our out of date Industries and made then world class but we didn't go down that path.
15

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 00:42:18
"But David Mundell, the Tory shadow Scottish Secretary, told The Scotsman that Mr Browne's remarks "would appear quite out of touch with the lives of many Scots"."

It takes a Tory to defend Scotland...it REALLY does show how out of touch Labour is.

"ccording to the Scotland Office, funding from Westminster for devolved matters has increased from £12.984 billion in 1998-9 to £30.148 billion by 2010-11."

Prices do increase. I would expect the amount of money different if tens years past.

"eparate Holyrood figures show the amount spent per person amounted to £9,751 in Scotland – £1,107 more than the UK average of £8,644."

London actually gets more paid per head then Scotland. This part is misleading it implies Scots are much better off then those in England but London gets more money.
16

Vivas,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 00:51:48
Whats the problem ? Don't we all have housekeepers up here who can be taxied about to do our food shopping for us ??? Ungrateful bassas the lot o yiz !
17

,

01/07/2008 00:54:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 00:57:57
18. Wow, where do I begin!?

1. UK GDP growth over past ten years was about 2-3% a year.
Holyrood budget growth over past ten years was about 9% a year.

2. London paid around £90bn in taxes last year (no, Corporation Tax does NOT count towards its 'regional' total).

Total public spending in London was £75bn last year.

So, in comparison to the SNP's £2.7bn deficit (or even their bizarre £837m 'surplus'), London has a £15bn surplus.

Strange how you don't reveal these figures in your....er, 'comparison'.
19

Richard1,

01/07/2008 00:58:35
That was a bit of an insensistive remark,by the Minister.

However:
Watching BBC Parliament today-sad I know.

DEBATE ON ENERGY.

OIL RESERVES=47 YEARS
GAS RESERVES=79 YEARS
COAL RESERVES=281 YEARS,for all the SNP,90% of which is in England.
20

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 01/07/2008 00:59:16
I am sure that this comment by Dizzy Des will be posted in every notice on every door in Glasgow East. I wonder just how many of the residents feel that they have never had it so good.

The SNP should repeat this constantly and ask the appropriate question. IS IT TRUE?
21

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 01/07/2008 01:01:22
23

I am pleased that England has coal reserves but I would dispute the 90% figure unless you are counting the Welsh coal.

Regardles, it is nice to know that our friends to the south have energy options for their future. Now let them let us have ours and we can both move in tandem into the future.
22

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:01:31
21
Wow, when will you end.
23

Traquir , Alba,

01/07/2008 01:03:15
Who Cares what these sycophants say nobody
believes them any more.

I recommend that nationalists concentrate their energies on the Glasgow East by-election. As entertaining as the latest Scottish Labour
side shows of the Scotland Office
or another leadership election
might me I am going to largely ignore it.
I really do not believe it
will make one iota of difference which of these
sycophants emerges as leader nor does
it matter what comes out of the mouths of
the Scotland Office puppets.

I would suggest as a first step people better understand the local area within Glasgow East
to fully appreciate the problems and needs
of the electors and how
best improvements can be made for them. A good initial
start would be to contact local SNP councillors to better understand what help they need and what the true
situation is on the ground since no doubt we will
not learn it directly from the Scottish newspapers.

Some SNP councillors within or close to the Glasgow
East constituency are :

. Jennifer Dunn (SNP, East Centre):
threetargets.blogspot.com
. David McDonald (SNP, Bailleston): notworkingfortheclampdown.blogspot.com
. Alison Thewliss (SNP, Calton):
bellgrovebelle.blogspot.com
. Grant Thoms (SNP, North East):
tartanhero.blogspot.com

It is interesting to note that these
young, passionate and energetic councillors
are very different from the typical Glasgow
City Councillors who are
described in the book "Halls Of Infamy" which
Glasgow City Hall is trying to ban :

"The majority of Glasgow's councillors are overweight, many are obese. They do little exercise and go everywhere in council limos"

see -tinyurl.com/4dt239 & tinyurl.com/4ovflt
24

Traquir , Alba,

01/07/2008 01:03:26
cont.

After five decades ruling Scotland, Labour have become
deeply corrupt, sycophantic Westminster puppets and
faux Socialists who have no principals left. They have
voted for wars, WMD (Trident) and even praised
Thatcher. In between they have created appalling
conditions in areas such as Glasgow East and if
they had any morals they would be hanging their
heads in shame and apologising to the Scottish
people for the abject poverty and loss of hope in areas
which are more like Eastern Europe rather than an oil
rich Western democracy.

The response from Des Browne just shows what
low lifes these people are :

"these people have been represented at a Council, Westminster and latterly Scottish Parliamentary level for generations by the Labour Party. I think you will find that they know what side their bread is buttered on."

Scotland needs to be rid of this Labour parasite
and Glasgow East will be instrumental in getting
rid of them and perhaps as a bonus Maggie Broon also.

Saor Alba
25

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:03:39
Highland Almighty,you are so right mate.

Let me say,your good VERY GOOD!
26

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:04:07
21 Highland Mighty.

London is not in a surplus. The London Olympics is having to be paid for by other parts of the UK.

27

Soosider,

Glasgow 01/07/2008 01:05:07
Dear ow dear ow dear, here we go again the same old tripe trotted out. All these points have been analysed
and shot down so many times, I really cannot be bothered going over them again. GERS does exactly what it says on the tin it is the Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland, it is all but impossible to use them to make any meaningful comparison with any other part of the UK. Why because the statistics are not gathered in the same way in any other part of the UK. To even begin to do so you have to start making assumptions about what to count in and what to count out, additionally the government and local authority remits are not the same this leads to different budget streams that once again lead to assumptions having to be made to even begin to make comparisons, comparisons are then very unreliable.
I expect that the posts here will fill up with loads of stats and interpretations.
The choice as far as I can see it is very simple, do you believe that Scotland is a nation, if so why do you not believe it should be running its own affairs? Its not about stats its about belief.
28

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:05:31
a pround doonhamer,I was a shocked a sanybody when i heard it,even more so because it came from the Lib-Dems.
29

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:06:37
22
Completely hatstand.

27
If you wok it, it can last till New Year.
30

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:08:15
ThomasP,what are you smoking son?can i have some?

London GDP,that is London 7.6m,not greater london 14 mil.

GDP 2006,304bn,now eaquate that with 5m Scottish,we know now SNP figures £120bn.
31

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:09:37
Google the East of England,in 2005 the south-east English GDP over £500bn.
32

,

01/07/2008 01:11:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:12:15
31. Again, London surplus for just ONE year: £15bn.

Total cost of the Olympics: £9bn.

You were saying?
34

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:13:08
36 Richard1.

Then England should become Independent and leave Scotland alone.
35

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:13:52
38 Highland Mighty.

The final price is not going to be 9 billion.

It is already around 20 bill and expected to rise further.
36

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:14:35
39. But the majority don't want that.

Damn that pesky 'democracy'!
37

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:15:34
41 Highland Mighty.

There has been no referendum. Not everyone has a had a chance to voice their opinion so therefore there can't be a majority.
38

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:18:51
21 Highland Mighty 01/07/2008 00:57:57

Total public spending in London was £75bn last year.

Where did you get that figure and what does it include. AND exclude?



39

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:19:04
40. Source?

And £20bn is still only 16 months of London's surplus, isn't it.

You nats complain about the UK stealing Scotland's non-existant surplus but you begrudge London keeping its real surplus.

'Hypocrisy', anyone?
40

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:19:51
38
£9Bn?
And growing.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

It is strange how all the unionistas, think oil is totally worthless...

...and whisky is spurned the whole world over...

...Yet these things are taxed in London, not Scotland...
41

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:21:33
44. Well, if you want Scottish Government figures, you go to the Scottish Government site....
42

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:21:39
45 Highland Mighty.

I shall leave that to you to learn.

Ken Livingstone stated that Londoners would not be asked to pay more though and money has been diverted from other parts of the UK to help pay the costs.
43

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:22:20
37
You certainly know a lot about sphincters.

Go and pull yours over your head again.

You know you want to.
44

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:22:33
ThomasP,will you stor making remarks about subsidising London now?

I should add London is the richest place in Europe let alone England.
45

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:24:21
46. It's all in the SNP's GERS! So bored with you idiots bringing up the same old lies which have been repeatedly discredited.

GERS shows Scotland's accounts in detail and it shows a £2.7bn deficit, in line with all previous GERS.

Is the SNP GERS now untrustworthy?
46

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:24:27
50 Richard1.

I have not mentioned anything about subsidising London.

What does Labour and the Tories say?

We share the rewards and the costs?

In theory then no one does subsidise anyone...
47

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:24:33
ThomasP,England should not leave Scotland alone,because your,our future's are linked.

P.s sorry about the spelling mistakes,baby won't sleep & thinks it's fun to press keys at the same time.
48

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:24:59
51 Highland Mighty.

Yes.

GERS is never perfect.
49

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:25:35
53 Richard1.

Just wait till the referendum comes. If the Union wins then you can make that claim. If not then you know where to go.
50

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:26:33
47 Highland Mighty

I've asked for evidence of LONDON spending/revenue

Source?

Don't tell me your using the discredited London Chamber of Commerce and Industry Report earlier this year High & Mighty...... you are joking?



51

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:26:50
48. Well, it's THEIR money, isn't it! LOL!

They are claiming back THEIR OWN MONEY FROM THE REST OF THE UK!

Why can't you grasp this?!

Pretend it's the Edinburgh Olympics and pretend it's Scotland that has a £15bn annual surplus....do you understand it now?
52

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:28:00
London subdisises all of us,not just Scotland ,Wales,N-Ireland,and parts of England too.

London also inport's £128bn,from the rest of the UK,giving us all jobs,and i might add Scotland's fastest growing part of it's economy,Finacial,Services.Bear in mind London is a bigger financial centre than every EU nation combined.
53

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:28:13
56. So this is another discredited government report, is it?!

LOL! Brilliant!

If it disagrees with the 'Facts According to Alex', then it's "discredited"!

You lot are a joke!
54

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:28:25
57 Highland Mighty.

Again.

Labour and the Conservatives state...

In our Union we share the rewards and share the costs...

London is not sharing the rewards or the costs.
55

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:30:47
58 Richard1.

Pathetic. What type of attitude is that...

Even if it was true it is absolutly disgusting to simply admitt and accept that.
56

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:32:10
59 Highland Mighty 01/07/2008 01:28:13

That's just it High & Mighty, IT ISN'T A GOVERNMENT REPORT

Is this the report that you are referring too?



57

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:33:08
51
All Statistics are untrustworthy.(see my post)

Anyone with an axe to grind can find a favourable angle for their point of view and vice versa.

I thought you were a fakie, but your use of "idiot", "discredited" and "GERS" prove it is you.

Or you are a Scotsman censorbot...

Why the "©", by the way?
58

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:33:43
60. Wow!

I can't type this slowly, so you'll have to read it slowly, okay?

London's £15bn annual surplus goes to the Treasury and is shared with the rest of the country...INCLUDING PLUGGING THAT £2.7BN HOLE IN THE SNP'S BUDGET.

You can also include the surpluses from the other Southern regions which also go to the Treasury and are then shared with the rest of the country.

ITS THE NATIONALISTS THAT WANT TO KEEP IT ALL FOR THEMSELVES.

It is astonishing how much you are struggling with this.
59

Edward,

01/07/2008 01:34:18
I think Des Browne has lost the plot
This statement follows the one he made on Sunday when interviewed on BBC's Politics show, when he said that Glasgow East was solidly Labour as they knew which side there bread was buttered and would not vote any other way
Mind you after watching some elderly people in Glasgow East , who all said they have always voted labour as 'there working class' probably is about right what Des Browne was getting at. There just to brainwashed to know better!
60

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:34:19
ThomasP,the fact is like i have said on these threads before,Scotland relies on England to buy over 90% of it's exports.

You can't just replace those exports over night,it takes decade to build up trade relationships.

England does this at a loss,beacause the money still stays in the UK,if Scotland were ouside the UK,England would get the same thing's cheaper from EU,probably E-Europe.

You have to be realistic,i am not saying you should not have Independence if that what Scotland want's,but to claim London is subsidised,Scotland subsidises England,is just silly!
61

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:34:54
59
I forgot "you lot are a joke".
62

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:35:00
64 Highland Mighty.

How can London share her wealth with the rest of the country when the whole country is up to 500 billion in debt?

How can anyone have a surplus when the country is in debt?
63

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:35:24
64 Highland Mighty 01/07/2008 01:33:43

Which economics school did you go to.?

Nobody with any sense would ever dream of comparing a city with a country?

Are you retarded?

You seem to be getting VERY excited.....
64

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:36:11
61. Ok, that's just confirmed it.

ThomasP IS an idiot!

Now its "disgusting" to admit that London is a major economic region.

It's "disgusting" to quote facts.

According to the nats, it is much better to hide facts.
65

Edward,

01/07/2008 01:37:07
#57 Highland Mighty
Simple like you
It is a fact that when Edinburgh hosted the Commonwealth games the London government refused to provide any assistance
So would expect the same today if by chance the olympics were held in Edinburgh, again London would refuse to assist and insist Scotland pays for it all
66

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:37:12
AND TYPING IN CAPITALS, TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION OF SPEAKING SLOWLY TO A BACKWARD PUPIL.
67

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:37:13
65. Go to bed, ThomasP.

You're a waste of time, space and bandwidth.
68

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:37:17
61 Highland Mighty©, 01/07/2008 01:33:43


"you are struggling with this"

yes you are,


69

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:38:15
63 Richard1.

England does not buy anything. England is only part of the country and has no power to pick and choose what it buys.

The Companies, individuals etc etc and Government chooses where to buy her goods and if they buy stuff from Scotland then it must be good because there are no rules that they have to.
70

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:38:16
66
Vinegar stroke soon, Ken.
71

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:38:31
And take Ken_Fitlike with you.

My God, these nats are dim! LOL!!

I'm so glad they are not old enough to vote.

Seriously. Phew!
72

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:39:12
67 Highland Mighty.

You are pathetic.

You can't have a surplus when the country is in debt.
73

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:40:21
72. Unbelievable!

Do you even understand what you are writing? It's gibberish.
74

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:40:34
74 Highland Mighty ,01/07/2008 01:38:31

dear oh dear, has someone spat the dummy

You still haven't answered where you are sourcing these figures from and what do they include/exclude....how can you possibly compare the economics of a city which relies on a nation to exist with a country?

Only a raving tory fanatic would do such a thing


75

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:40:42
ThomasP,you should also remember London,has been growing at close to 4% for years.

In Fact the argument can be made,every year Scotland does not acheive the Uk GDP growth rate,it is being helped out,if you have the same living standards,same health care,etc.you must be being helped out,(notice i dropped the 'S' word.Whether it be Goblins,Santa-Claus,Fairy's at the bottom of your garden,someone is making up the difference.maybe the English Thomas.
76

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:41:24
75. We are talking about regional accounts, not national, you infinitely challenged boy!
77

,

01/07/2008 01:42:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
78

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:42:15
77. You are as clueless as ThomasP.

Begone. You're wasting everyone's time.
79

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:43:04
78 Richard1.

Living standards are lower in Scotland then the South East of England.

Health care is different also in Scotland and same in Wales then England.

How can it be compared when our countries have different health policies?
80

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:43:24
ThomasP,do you really think England cannot get those things from mmmmmmmmmmmm,Eastern Europe perhaps,China,India?.

your argument's are so weak,they are are becoming a joke.
81

Edward,

01/07/2008 01:43:35
#55 Richard1
Think your getting carried away
London is a substantial Financial centre, but its not as big as all the other european centres combined, thats sheer nonscence. Frankfurt is fairly substantial in its own right
82

,

01/07/2008 01:44:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
83

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:45:15
79 Highland Mighty.

I am talking about National and so were you.

You spoke about Scotlands 2.7 bill over spend...

London can't have a surplus when the country is in debt.

84

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:45:31
Thomas,are you really this thick?

If you are not making the same wealth(gdp),but you have the same services,you must be getting the money from someone else.
85

Edward,

01/07/2008 01:45:47
Anyway as soon as Scotland gains independence, England will suffer financially as it will no longer have access to the Oil revenues
86

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:46:02
Forget it, Richard.

These two are clueless teenagers with only Wikipedia and 'Alex's Big Book of B0ll0x' to rely on.

That and they are just talking gibberish now. Well, it is late for the poor mites...
87

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:46:26
79 Highland Mighty©, 01/07/2008 01:41:24

There are no 'regional accounts' kept by the Uk Government.which refer to surplus and deficit for the English regions.

I say again, what are you referring to. with your figures......

Source?





88

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:46:30
83 Richard1.

You can't even tell me what is bought from Scotland.
89

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:47:30
Ah. Bullying who he thinks are young and inexperienced.

ThomasP, your posts are fine and reasonable to me.

Are you a head teacher in a public school HM?

You like badgering young boys?

Hmm?
90

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:47:37
87 Richard1.

We DONT have the exactly the same services you twit.

Different Parliaments, different policies. Its not the same.
91

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:47:52
89 Highland Mighty 01/07/2008 01:46:02

Source?
92

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:48:58
ThomasP,so you don't have the same living standard's as the rest of the UK,you twit!!!!!
93

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:50:11
95 Richard1.

In post 82 I said we don't have the same living standards.
94

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:50:28
90. It's all in the ONS. There are regional accounts all over the site.

Idiot. Truly, as thick as. Wow.

And he has no clue how bad he is.
95

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:51:04
92 Conan the Librarian™, 01/07/2008 01:47:30

"badgering young boys"

He does get very excited over the most bizarre things
96

Edward,

01/07/2008 01:51:28
#87 Richard 1
its you who is a thick english tw*t!Scotland generates sufficient wealth in its own right, een without the oil revenues. Next you will be saying that Scotland is subsidised and could never go it alone
Well if Scotland is such a burden on England, then why not agree that Scotland should become Independent
At least Scotland would not have to contribute to grandoise defence contracts, such as Trident or the trophy carriers (what exactly do we need carriers for???) And Scotland will reatina ALL the oil revenues for the North Sea and Atlantic shelf.
England can continue spending money that it doesnt have
97

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:51:33
91. Is he asking for a list of goods brought from Scotland??!
98

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:52:23
100 Highland Mighty.

Yes please.
99

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:52:36
100 Highland Mighty.

Include the oil please.
100

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:52:56
99. READ GERS.

For the love of God, read GERS.

You are talking out of your big fat one. You are a joke.

Read GERS.
101

Ken_Fitlike,

01/07/2008 01:52:59
97 Highland Mighty, 01/07/2008 01:50:28

I'm sorry High & Mighty, there are NO statistics on ONS that refer to regional surplus and deficit, the UK Government doesn't treat them as individual economies.

Scotland has got GERS as it can be distinctly seen as a nation.

No again, I ask, where are your sources?

Post a Link.



102

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:53:38
Highland,Mighty,i only come on about once a week,let me say,i bet they hate when you one,they result to TROLL!! YOU HATE YOU COUNTRY,do they think they are goona win over undecided voter's,without a better argument than that.

From what i can tell,you have them for breakfast EVERY TIME!
103

Highland Mighty©,

01/07/2008 01:54:24
101. You seriously want a list of goods exported from Scotland to England?

Mmm.

Just **** off. Really. Go over there.

What a twot. LOL!
104

Conan the Librarian™,

01/07/2008 01:55:06
Indeed Ken.
Notice he does not respond to reasoned questions, merely leaping on inexperienced young, probably pert-bottomed posters.
105

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:55:07
105 Richard1.

The only reason Nats turn to abuse is because we get frustrated by the idiocy that we face from people like you and Highland Mighty
106

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:55:27
Edward,how can Scotland generate enough wealth on it's own without oil?

there's a £10bn deficit.
107

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:55:52
106 Highland Mighty.

Aye. You can't answer that can you?
108

ThomasP,

01/07/2008 01:56:32
109 Richard1.

That is shown on GERS.

It is the worst thing to base the future of Scotland on.

109

Richard1,

01/07/2008 01:57:17
ThomasP,Edward,can you at least admit,you don't subsidise London,and England,come on you can do it!!!!!!